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| 00:14.05 | dhendrix | Hello everyone. Has KDE fully transitioned to QT4 yet? |
| 00:15.34 | dhendrix | I would like to use KDE on a small custom distro, however I don't think I have enough room for both QT3 and QT4. It looks like KDE's transition to using QT4 is currently underway, but I have been unable to determine which versions I can use with only one or the other (QT3 or QT4 without needing both). |
| 00:16.04 | pinotree | dhendrix: kde3 will never use Qt4 |
| 00:16.25 | pinotree | kde4 will do, but it's still in pre-alpha state |
| 00:17.10 | dhendrix | pinotree: Oh, good! Thanks for the advice, I was worried that I would need QT4 for more recent KDE 3.x versions. |
| 00:18.22 | pinotree | dhendrix: np |
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| 00:25.26 | pinotree | Sho_: double-ping |
| 00:25.48 | Sho_ | pinotree: half-pong |
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| 00:35.23 | Jucato | um... excuse me, in which #kde channel could I go to about errors in dot.kde.org? |
| 00:42.47 | Sho_ | Jucato: Might be best to just mail the list of the www team |
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| 00:43.08 | Jucato | ow... I kinda... posted a reply on dot.kde.org... |
| 00:43.12 | Jucato | ooops... :( |
| 00:44.59 | Jucato | aaah the impatience of youth... :( |
| 00:45.43 | Sho_ | Jucato: Generally you can also ping Riddell considering he's a Dot editor |
| 00:46.03 | Jucato | hm.. ok |
| 00:46.14 | Jucato | he might be sleeping already |
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| 00:50.08 | troy | Quite a few people have access to the dot... someone will read the comment and fix it up |
| 00:50.48 | Sho_ | From my perspective very few people have access to the dot |
| 00:50.57 | Jucato | yeah... I just don't really prefer to publicly "announce" an error. but not knowing who/where to poke... |
| 00:51.27 | Sho_ | Jucato: there's also admin AT kdenews DOT org |
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| 00:52.16 | Jucato | ah cool. I'll keep that in mind next time |
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| 00:57.18 | troy | I've had my girlfriend running linux/KDE for just over two years now on her laptop, and on friday she just got a shiney new MacBook... and the first thing she complains about is that she wants her KDE back :) |
| 00:57.39 | Theory | that's interesting |
| 00:58.02 | Theory | my parents currently run kde on their PC, but are about to buy a laptop. I have been suggesting a MacBook... |
| 00:58.43 | troy | Well, KDE 4 apps are supposed to be able to run using Qt/Mac (outside of fink, that is) |
| 00:58.49 | troy | so that's a plus... |
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| 01:00.48 | troy | Sho_: does it "fit" with OSX, or does it seem out of place? |
| 01:01.34 | Sho_ | troy: http://www.eikehein.com/files/konvi-osx.png |
| 01:02.06 | Sho_ | troy: Doesn't disturb me personally, anyway |
| 01:02.12 | benJIman | scrollbar doesn't look very osxish |
| 01:02.34 | Sho_ | benJIman: That's plain Plastik ;) |
| 01:02.36 | benJIman | But you could use another theme |
| 01:03.07 | troy | Yeah, looks like KDE running via X-forwarded ssh or something :) kind of as I expected it to |
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| 01:05.16 | Theory | hrm, doesn't use the OSX menubar |
| 01:05.55 | Sho_ | Theory: It's an X11 server with a window manager that integrates the X11 windows with the OS X desktop. |
| 01:06.10 | Sho_ | The server being a port of XFree86. |
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| 01:06.26 | troy | this is what I'm looking forward to: http://ranger.befunk.com/screenshots/qt-mac-konqueror-20031229.png (apparently that is from Dec 2003) |
| 01:06.29 | Phenax | Anyone know what is up with kde-*.org? |
| 01:06.37 | Sho_ | (It's still the best IRC client on OSX ;-) |
| 01:06.44 | Sho_ | Phenax: Nope :( |
| 01:08.21 | troy | well folks, I'm going to try it out on the laptop :) |
| 01:09.33 | Jucato | those sites seem to be down |
| 01:12.16 | Dark_Apostrophe | Does anyone know how to make convert a single mpg file into the DVD format, and have the video automatically run (no menu) when the disc is put into a player? |
| 01:14.33 | *** join/#kde HaMBoNE (n=jarrod@eycb01-00-brtwga-68-68-89-157.atlaga.adelphia.net) |
| 01:15.05 | HaMBoNE | Does anyone know what is wrong with kde-apps.org? |
| 01:15.13 | HaMBoNE | I have been unable to reach it all day |
| 01:15.23 | Jucato | their servers seem to be down HaMBoNE |
| 01:15.32 | HaMBoNE | doh! |
| 01:15.37 | HaMBoNE | that sucks |
| 01:15.59 | Jucato | it affects all kde-*.org sites and gnome-*.org sites as well |
| 01:16.23 | Renze | but the gnome-*.org ones don't matter ;) |
| 01:16.50 | HaMBoNE | hehe |
| 01:17.07 | HaMBoNE | I just recently converted to KDE after using Gnome since '98 |
| 01:17.13 | Jucato | I'm just saying that the whole server must be down |
| 01:17.25 | Jucato | since the guys responsible for those sites are one and the same |
| 01:18.01 | HaMBoNE | well, the server appear to be there, it's just not answer HTTP requests |
| 01:18.04 | Theory | some kind of integration between kde-apps and adept would be nice :-) |
| 01:18.18 | Sho_ | Jucato: Curiously they do respond to pings |
| 01:18.27 | Jucato | strange... |
| 01:18.32 | Renze | machines up, but apache down? |
| 01:18.36 | Sho_ | guess so |
| 01:18.39 | Theory | looks that way |
| 01:18.59 | Jucato | Theory: unfortunately, that won't be so simple. most stuff in kde-apps are either in source code, .deb. or .rpm. |
| 01:19.20 | Theory | Jucato: true :-( |
| 01:19.37 | Jucato | Adept doesn't handle .debs right now (it uses apt as a backend) |
| 01:19.38 | Theory | possibly give adept a separate rating/comments system |
| 01:19.47 | Sho_ | some kind of useful package management in adept would be nice, too |
| 01:20.01 | Theory | Sho_: wel, I don't ask for miracles :-p |
| 01:20.01 | HaMBoNE | well, since I can't get to kde-apps, does anyone know of a good program for KDE to tune an electric guitar? |
| 01:20.03 | Jucato | an overhaul of Adept's UI would be nice too :P |
| 01:20.11 | Sho_ | Jucato: That's what I meant ;) |
| 01:20.27 | Theory | although the newest version of adept is a lot more useful to its target audience than the earlier versions I used |
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| 01:20.43 | Sho_ | Jucato: Then again Adept captures the unfriendlyness and obscurity of the command-line apt* programs quite well ... not much lost in translation I guess |
| 01:20.55 | Jucato | rofl |
| 01:21.04 | Renze | HaMBoNE: http://home.planet.nl/~lamer024/k3guitune.html |
| 01:21.30 | HaMBoNE | Renze: that's perfect |
| 01:21.31 | HaMBoNE | thanks |
| 01:21.35 | Renze | no problem |
| 01:21.47 | Renze | portage to the rescue! :D |
| 01:21.47 | benJIman | tbh there are few good package manager UIs, making terrible ones seems to be quite easy |
| 01:22.15 | Theory | hrm, my version of adept looks nothing like the one in screenshots online |
| 01:22.38 | Sho_ | UI-wise, I think Kuroo is quite remarkable, and very well tuned to its platform |
| 01:22.39 | Theory | oh, there are two different apps |
| 01:22.42 | Phenax | Sorcery || Paludis ftw |
| 01:22.56 | Phenax | Two very different approaches to excellence |
| 01:23.02 | Theory | adept_manager is scary, adept_installer is usable |
| 01:23.22 | benJIman | hmm, looks reasonable Sho_ |
| 01:23.46 | Jucato | what? adept_installer? usable? lol |
| 01:24.06 | Theory | Jucato: if I just want an app to do 'x' and want to find it quickly and not have to think too much... |
| 01:24.20 | Sho_ | benJIman: Installation on Gentoo takes time, so it uses that two-step approach of adding things to a queue, and then letting it work through that queue |
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| 01:24.26 | Surghi | hi |
| 01:24.26 | Jucato | Theory: try looking for KWord in there (presuming you are on Kubuntu) |
| 01:25.33 | Jucato | Theory: better yet, try updating or managing your repositories from there :) |
| 01:25.34 | Theory | hehe |
| 01:25.34 | Surghi | I am not sure if my question is really related to KDE, but I think so. |
| 01:25.34 | Theory | update repository? what does that mean? :-) |
| 01:25.34 | Surghi | When I save file in GIMP, a dialog window shows up |
| 01:25.35 | Sho_ | benJIman: It's actually an early success story of KDE's collaboration with OpenUsability. If you scroll down on their screenshots page, you'll see it used to look crappy and chaotic. Then Ellen & Co held a workshop at Akademy introducing developers to usability practices - creating personas, paper prototyping, etc. - and the end result was Kuroo's new UI. |
| 01:25.35 | Surghi | the same window shows up when I save a website in firefox |
| 01:25.35 | Theory | 'tis true, kword is missing, but that's not really an interface issue |
| 01:25.36 | Renze | Surghi: that's GTK's file dialog... nothing to do with KDE |
| 01:25.36 | Surghi | so do many other programs also use the same saving window |
| 01:25.38 | Surghi | ok |
| 01:25.49 | Jucato | Theory: no. but it does limit what adept_installer can do, which contradicts it being "usable" |
| 01:26.06 | Surghi | Renze, so when I want to change the content of the left side which says "user" "Desktop" "File System" you cannot help me here, right? |
| 01:26.27 | Renze | Surghi: nope |
| 01:26.31 | Surghi | ok |
| 01:26.33 | Renze | Surghi: nothing to do with KDE |
| 01:26.43 | Jucato | try asking in #gimp (if there's one) or #gnome |
| 01:26.46 | Surghi | not many people in GTK |
| 01:27.06 | Surghi | ok |
| 01:27.17 | Surghi | Thank you |
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| 01:27.34 | Surghi | why does KDE use GTK and not KTK ? |
| 01:27.41 | Theory | Jucato: it does however contain OOo, which is what most people are actually going to want to use ;-) |
| 01:27.56 | Jucato | Theory: not so true |
| 01:27.56 | Renze | KDE uses Qt, not GTK... Gimp and Firefox are not KDE apps |
| 01:28.30 | Phenax | QT Apps are not KDE apps either, it's simply a common factor.. Just for reference ;P |
| 01:29.08 | Sho_ | Surghi: Firefox and Gimp are not KDE applications and thus do not use KDE's "Save" dialog |
| 01:29.25 | Sho_ | Surghi: Instead, they use GTK's |
| 01:29.45 | Surghi | what is GTK at all? |
| 01:29.59 | Surghi | the word GTK always shows up but I could never define what it is |
| 01:30.18 | Jucato | "the GIMP Tool Kit" |
| 01:30.20 | Sho_ | Surghi: GTK is a so-called "GUI toolkit", i.e. it's basically a set of components from which a developer can assemble a user interface |
| 01:30.20 | shadok | the things that defines how your windows look :p |
| 01:30.32 | shadok | for me it's the best description :D |
| 01:30.33 | Jucato | shadok: not just windows |
| 01:30.42 | Sho_ | Surghi: Whereas a KDE application uses the components offered by KDE (and Qt, on which KDE is based) |
| 01:31.24 | Surghi | hum ok |
| 01:31.27 | Surghi | thank you very much |
| 01:31.34 | shadok | Jucato: i'm sure i'am wrong in many ways but for someone not developping i think this sentence can be a good resumé :) |
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| 01:32.23 | Sho_ | Surghi: Basically imagine you want to build a toy castle (your application), and you chose between two types of bricks to build it out of (KDE vs. GTK) |
| 01:32.35 | Jucato | shadok: true... but in this case, "good" is not entirely "correct". :) |
| 01:32.48 | shadok | i agree :) |
| 01:33.50 | shadok | Sho's description is very clear to me too |
| 01:34.10 | Phenax | It's QT vs GTK and KDE vs Gnome |
| 01:34.31 | troy | and C++ vs ObjC :P |
| 01:34.42 | Sho_ | Surghi: Building your castle out of KDE's bricks makes it look nice among other buildings built with KDE bricks, wheras using GTK bricks makes it look nice in your GTK village. We think KDE is the hipper town to build a castle in. Some disagree. |
| 01:34.55 | Phenax | I don't think it's accurate to compare KDE and GTK Sho_ :/ |
| 01:35.11 | shadok | from the time i've hard people speaking about it, i've made myself an idea to represent what qt/gtk, even tough it's not exact |
| 01:35.21 | Surghi | Sho_, well the only things I use in KDE is kicker, the command prompt and kwrite |
| 01:35.32 | Surghi | nothing else is important for me in kde |
| 01:35.56 | troy | Surghi: you should try konqueror out :P /me liiikes it |
| 01:36.01 | qupada | Surghi: been using it without a window manager then? |
| 01:36.05 | Sho_ | Phenax: Given that the Gnome/GTK people are currently working on moving many of the "Gnome" libraries into GTK, I think it's reasonably fair |
| 01:36.16 | Sho_ | Phenax: But I'm trying to keep the analogy simple. |
| 01:36.19 | Surghi | qupada, sorry, how? |
| 01:36.39 | Surghi | qupada, I already tried using fbrun and kicker in icewm |
| 01:36.47 | Surghi | but did not make my system faster |
| 01:36.54 | qupada | Surghi: window manager being the app that draws titlebars and borders around applications you're running, generally it helps to have one |
| 01:37.09 | troy | qupada: you probably also have desktop icons and such, which is part of kde |
| 01:37.26 | Sho_ | Surghi: Well, Kicker, the command prompt and KWrite are built using KDE's technology, and if you like those, you might enjoy other applications that use KDE technology as well |
| 01:37.28 | Surghi | qupada, so what you want to tell me is, that I also need the window manager |
| 01:38.06 | troy | Surghi: well without a window manager, you would not be able to switch between irc and firefox (easily) for example |
| 01:38.10 | Surghi | the only thing I dislike is that I got no new, fresh look into my desktops surface since years |
| 01:38.16 | Phenax | You don't need it but if you run, say, Gnome with KDE applications, you are wasting many resources. |
| 01:38.24 | Phenax | For having the base libs of KDE loaded with full Gnome |
| 01:38.31 | Sho_ | Surghi: You need /a/ window manager, not /the/ window manager; generally, any reasonably NetWM-compliant window manager will do. KDE's window manager, kwin, happens to be a really good one. |
| 01:38.52 | troy | /her |
| 01:39.16 | Jucato | he's already confused as he is... :) |
| 01:39.22 | Surghi | my taskbar always look the same, 1 konsole icon, 1 firefox icon, 1 show desktop icon + the windows and a clock thats it |
| 01:39.35 | Surghi | empty desktop, no icons |
| 01:39.41 | Surghi | its boring |
| 01:39.52 | troy | what happens when you right click on the desktop? do you get a menu? |
| 01:39.53 | Surghi | but I also do not know what I could make to make it look better |
| 01:39.57 | Surghi | yes |
| 01:39.59 | Jucato | then put icons... or desktop applets/widgets |
| 01:40.09 | Surghi | troy, I use this menu to shutdown my PC |
| 01:40.15 | bline | superkaramba! ;) |
| 01:40.19 | Surghi | if I do not do a "shutdown -h now" |
| 01:40.20 | Sho_ | Surghi: Usually I would recommend www.kde-look.org now, which hosts many nice things to splice up your desktop, such as wallpapers and themes, but unfortunately it's down at the moment. Check it out in the future, though. |
| 01:40.29 | Sho_ | s/splice/spice/ |
| 01:40.39 | Theory | I have a minipagers, a clock, and a tray, and that's it. |
| 01:41.02 | troy | bloody apt :P |
| 01:41.34 | troy | Surghi: from within that menu, you should be able to configure your wallpaper and such pretty easily |
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| 01:43.15 | miha | none I guess |
| 01:44.04 | troy | I have to manually install firefox on kubuntu... it doesn't even include the gtk libs be default I don't think |
| 01:44.38 | troy | s/be/by |
| 01:44.40 | Jucato | MEPIS has firefox installed by default, but not set as the default browser, iirc |
| 01:45.17 | troy | kubuntu defaults to openoffice though, which I love to hate... making me install koffice |
| 01:45.28 | Jucato | :) |
| 01:45.43 | troy | at least the openoffice install is the kde-integrated one... |
| 01:48.12 | qupada | troy: i guess that's why they make the 'alternate' and 'server' install cds. aka the "don't install loads of crap i don't want without asking" cds |
| 01:48.58 | troy | qupada: yeah, but 'apt-get install kubuntu-desktop' still pulls openoffice in... |
| 01:49.36 | Theory | LFS? -) |
| 01:49.37 | Jucato | Renze: I can do that here, too... which is actually what I did... now I'm having bluetooth problems :P |
| 01:49.54 | Renze | use a whitening toothpaste? ;) |
| 01:49.57 | Phenax | How do I get Konsole to be a login-shell, so it actually reads my bash_profile and bashrc.. |
| 01:50.21 | Phenax | I had to set this in my .Xdefaults for xterm: XTerm*loginShell: True |
| 01:50.25 | Theory | it reads .bashrc for me |
| 01:50.33 | Sho_ | Phenax: konsole --ls |
| 01:50.36 | troy | Phenax: read .zshrc for me by default |
| 01:50.53 | Phenax | Sho_: But how do I get that by default? |
| 01:51.12 | troy | I didn't change anything -- just the way it works here... what distro are you on? |
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| 01:51.50 | Sho_ | Phenax: Either change your Konsole shortcut to run konsole --ls instead of konsole, or edit the default session definition file (that Konsole has configurable sessions probably didn't escape your notice) to run your preferred shell executable with the relevant parameter |
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| 01:57.37 | Phenax | Sho_: I changed my session's Execute to "bash --login" but it doesn't seem to do it. |
| 01:57.45 | Phenax | Changed the Schema and it's not changing to it |
| 01:57.51 | Phenax | Changed the $TERM and that changed just fine. |
| 01:58.39 | Phenax | Bah, nevermind, got it. |
| 02:01.08 | troy | Phenax: what was your final solution? |
| 02:01.32 | Phenax | troy: That I was editing the wrong session (Didn't know Shell was loaded first -- lol) |
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| 02:09.01 | JohnFlux | if alt+f2 and ctrl+esc don't do anything.. then what's wrong? |
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| 02:11.32 | jspiro | hi all, does kde use file(1) to detect the filetype of unknown files? |
| 02:12.40 | hagabaka | i read that it's usually short-circuited by file extension |
| 02:12.46 | qupada | jspiro: generally if it doesn't know what it is it will just say "data" |
| 02:13.03 | hagabaka | e.g. a .txt binary file would be treated as a text file |
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| 02:13.45 | jspiro | does it use file(1) for unknown file extensions like .foo? |
| 02:15.44 | hagabaka | doesn't seem so |
| 02:15.53 | jspiro | why not? |
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| 02:16.22 | hagabaka | i don't know, maybe it would be too slow |
| 02:16.54 | hagabaka | the reason that it uses file extension over magic number was because of speed, i read |
| 02:17.02 | Sho_ | jspiro: "A single file stores all the rules for recognising files by content. This is almost identical to file(1)'s 'magic.mime' database file, but without the encoding field." (http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Standards_2fOtherSystems) |
| 02:17.07 | Theory | invoking a new process for every file in a big directory would be time consuming, so if that functionality is wanted using it as a library would be more likely |
| 02:17.20 | jspiro | is file(1) invokable as a library? |
| 02:17.31 | hagabaka | libmagik |
| 02:17.34 | hagabaka | *magic |
| 02:18.03 | jspiro | so i wonder why kde doesn't do that for, say, the first 100 unknown-extension files in each directory. |
| 02:19.19 | Sho_ | jspiro: See above: It uses its own database, similar to file(1)'s. Presumably due to either better content or some technical advantage, perhaps portability. |
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| 02:19.43 | jspiro | that's why I said unknown-extension :) |
| 02:20.02 | jspiro | i agree that it should use its own database when possible. |
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| 02:28.46 | Phenax | Wow, I love when users spread FUD about KDE |
| 02:28.56 | Phenax | "Kwin is 23,000KiB.." |
| 02:29.06 | Phenax | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4456 Dec 2 17:44 /usr/bin/kwin |
| 02:29.12 | Phenax | Boy, that sure is 23,000KiB |
| 02:29.34 | Sho_ | Phenax: And even then, it heavily depends on the compiler used and how it was configured |
| 02:29.36 | jspiro | Phenax, kde is a little large for my taste.. but it's worth it. |
| 02:29.41 | *** join/#kde Alien_Freak (n=sfaci2@adsl-68-252-224-250.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 02:29.43 | jspiro | bloat is good when it adds features. |
| 02:29.43 | Renze | 4 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 3976 2006-11-26 10:29 /usr/kde/3.5/bin/kwin <-- mine is smaller :) |
| 02:29.44 | Phenax | Obviously people can't appreciate common libraries for applications, and how resource-friendly it is. |
| 02:29.45 | Alien_Freak | j #kdevelop |
| 02:30.01 | Alien_Freak | sorry.. that was a /join |
| 02:30.35 | Sho_ | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 3968 2006-11-25 15:09 kwin |
| 02:30.37 | Sho_ | I win ;) |
| 02:30.47 | Phenax | That's because mine was compiled under -O3 ;P |
| 02:30.48 | Renze | oooo... 8 bytes! |
| 02:31.15 | Phenax | I mean, no matter how you compile it, it will get _NO WHERE_ near 23,000KiB |
| 02:31.29 | Renze | Phenax: maybe if it is statically linked? :D |
| 02:31.41 | Phenax | heh.. Maybe |
| 02:31.47 | *** join/#kde Red_Cloud (n=wrt50lks@71-212-225-246.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 02:31.56 | Phenax | Anyways, any startup speed problems can be solved swiftly, just prelink. |
| 02:32.47 | Phenax | I'm a new KDE convert from Wmii.. I just felt that with the free time I have constantly disolving, I need a fast workable environment. |
| 02:33.10 | Phenax | Wmii is great -- I still love it, but just 20% of my applications I use don't like tiling window managers |
| 02:33.19 | Phenax | time consuming to set X to floating layers, bla bla. |
| 02:33.53 | Phenax | No decent office applications (Unless you include OO.o).. No KHTML browsers (Not a huge fan of Firefox) |
| 02:33.57 | hollywoodb | Sho_: 3896 for 3.5.4 on slackware 11 :P |
| 02:34.37 | Phenax | Gnome has too many old dependencies, I'm reluctant to even try it. |
| 02:36.04 | jspiro | Phenax, what distro are you on? |
| 02:36.19 | *** join/#kde shinjii (n=shinjii@58.163.90.10) |
| 02:36.29 | Phenax | jspiro: Sourcemage |
| 02:36.44 | Phenax | Well, controlpanel2 gets a dependency in libxklavier, which has a dep in gcc 3.4 |
| 02:36.57 | Phenax | Sourcemage doesn't have the best dependencies, I admit, and probably should check it out. |
| 02:37.13 | Alien_Freak | wow.. you just named 2 of my fav apps... OO and firefox |
| 02:37.42 | Phenax | Koffice and Konqueror work mighty fine here. |
| 02:37.45 | jspiro | Phenax, try debian :) |
| 02:37.56 | hollywoodb | Phenax: I had the same thoughts about wmii |
| 02:38.08 | hollywoodb | Phenax: but it does slightly better than ratpoison |
| 02:38.25 | Phenax | hollywoodb: I think it's the best tiling wm, but man, these days I get nothing for free time. |
| 02:38.39 | Alien_Freak | konqueror's has issues with me.. *shrug* |
| 02:39.18 | hollywoodb | I prefer konqueror to firefox, feels more intuitive and its easier for me to navigate with the keyboard |
| 02:40.09 | Phenax | I prefer it because Firefox uses GTK+2, has a clunky Xul interface, and because Konqeror is integrated with my desktop environment ;) |
| 02:40.20 | bline | Now that I know konqueror can handle gmail with a faked useragent I have no reason to ever launch firefox again. |
| 02:40.48 | *** join/#kde Otter (n=jsinger@146-115-127-75.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 02:40.55 | Phenax | Anyways, Sourcemage is a great distro, even if I have to submit dependency-related bug reports up to five times a day ;P |
| 02:40.58 | *** join/#kde Endler (n=len@c-24-118-6-25.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 02:41.00 | jspiro | why does gmail filter by useragent? it's morally unrighteous. |
| 02:41.04 | hollywoodb | bline: konq can handle quite a few of those crummy "IE only" sites using that method as well |
| 02:41.08 | jspiro | And I think MSN Live Hotmail does it too. |
| 02:41.10 | Phenax | E-mail Google about it. |
| 02:41.24 | Phenax | I'm sure they won't send an automated response. |
| 02:41.28 | hollywoodb | jspiro: gmail works when you identify as konqueror, just some of the more fancy stuff is disabled |
| 02:41.39 | Phenax | "WE R WORKING ON TEH SUPPORT EVEN TH0 IT ALRDY WORK PERFECT LAWL" |
| 02:42.01 | jspiro | hollywoodb, yes, "Basic mode". I hate it. |
| 02:42.44 | Phenax | I only check my E-mail for buying/selling junk online, other business junk, and that's about all. |
| 02:42.56 | Phenax | Check it only when I buy something/need to look at docs/whatever |
| 02:42.58 | bline | Basic mode is boggy also, i remeber there are issues doing things with the address book |
| 02:42.58 | *** join/#kde dansushi (n=dan@c-66-30-178-166.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 02:43.48 | Phenax | I hope KDE will work on GoogleOS |
| 02:44.51 | Jucato | O.o |
| 02:45.22 | Phenax | http://plod.popoever.com/upfiles/img/050902/googleOS.jpg -> Because GoogleOS looks horrible. |
| 02:45.47 | Jucato | GoogleOS...??? |
| 02:46.37 | *** part/#kde jspiro (n=jasonspi@CPE0004e2d9f884-CM0013718690da.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:49.28 | *** part/#kde Otter (n=jsinger@146-115-127-75.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 02:52.32 | illogic-al | GoogleoS bloooooooooooooows |
| 02:53.06 | illogic-al | and by blows i mean sucks |
| 02:53.16 | illogic-al | see, it sucks and blows at the same time. |
| 02:53.32 | illogic-al | I hear it's looking to make inroads into the hooker market... |
| 02:54.02 | *** join/#kde root_ (n=root@cpe-66-65-241-160.mass.res.rr.com) |
| 02:54.39 | Phenax | Is there anywhere I can go to grab Konqueror extensions? |
| 02:54.39 | *** join/#kde kilrae (n=kilrae@CPE000f66055f14-CM0012256eb698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:54.47 | kilrae | does anyone know if it's possible to turn down the quality of thumbnails in kde? |
| 02:54.48 | illogic-al | Phenax: nope. the idea never caught on. |
| 02:55.08 | Phenax | The only thing I miss from traditional Mozilla browsers is the search bar at the top |
| 02:55.15 | illogic-al | well that took care of root.... |
| 02:55.29 | illogic-al | Phenax: that's available in kdeaddons |
| 02:55.34 | illogic-al | somewhere... |
| 02:56.00 | illogic-al | kilrae: yes. no. |
| 02:56.02 | kilrae | i'm having this problem with kde storing 65KB thumbnails of 70KB photos |
| 02:56.38 | illogic-al | kilrae: sucks. |
| 02:56.43 | Jucato | Phenax: what distro? I thought the Search bar plugin is installed by default |
| 02:56.48 | *** join/#kde sebastian (n=sebastia@190.49.71.191) |
| 02:56.49 | kilrae | indeed |
| 02:56.55 | Phenax | Jucato: Sourcemage.. I installed kdebase and kdelibs.. |
| 02:57.06 | feindbild | does somebody know a kde app to manage CD/DVD contents? unforntunately ked-apps is doen =( |
| 02:57.17 | Phenax | I'll try kdeaddons. |
| 02:57.19 | Jucato | I installed kde-core. I think it was part of that... if not, try konq-plugins |
| 02:57.20 | feindbild | *doen |
| 02:57.28 | illogic-al | feindbild: manage? |
| 02:57.30 | feindbild | *down |
| 02:57.46 | feindbild | illogic-al: kind of a database what is on which CD |
| 02:58.02 | illogic-al | oh. nope. |
| 02:58.05 | Phenax | kdeaddons is just a bunch of plugins -- so I'll take that :) |
| 02:58.24 | Jucato | ok. good luck. |
| 02:58.43 | Phenax | Should be |
| 02:58.44 | illogic-al | yes. as i said. |
| 02:58.48 | Renze | feindbild: katalog: http://salvaste.altervista.org/ |
| 02:58.49 | illogic-al | many moons ago. |
| 02:59.04 | feindbild | Renze: thank you =) |
| 02:59.14 | Renze | once again, portage to the rescue ;) |
| 02:59.45 | Sho_ | (The search bar is in kdeaddons) |
| 02:59.52 | Jucato | huh? is Renze now synonymous to Portage? |
| 03:00.09 | Phenax | Portage ftll |
| 03:00.15 | Sho_ | Jucato: konq-plugins is a subfolder in the kdeaddons module, many distros single it out as its own package |
| 03:00.45 | Jucato | Sho_: ah... no wonder I didn't know.. I installed it on its own :) |
| 03:00.46 | Phenax | Sho_: Sourcemage will be having a very modular KDE for KDE 4 :) |
| 03:00.59 | Sho_ | Phenax: Gentoo for me ;) |
| 03:01.09 | Renze | and me |
| 03:01.13 | Phenax | I've used Gentoo for quite a while, got sick of Portage. |
| 03:01.23 | Jucato | Sho_: ... apparently without reading the package description, which clearly states it's a part of kdeaddons... :( |
| 03:01.28 | Phenax | Then I got sick for the lack of support for it's successor, Paludis :) |
| 03:01.43 | *** join/#kde Kim^J (n=Hagbard@90-224-32-143-no95.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 03:01.47 | Jucato | sourcemage... what on middle earth is that? |
| 03:01.52 | Phenax | A distro. |
| 03:02.00 | Phenax | #sourcemage |
| 03:02.03 | Phenax | </plug> |
| 03:02.04 | Jucato | a source-based distro? |
| 03:02.09 | Phenax | Yes |
| 03:02.15 | Jucato | aah... |
| 03:02.19 | Sho_ | (Given the number of Linux distributions, you'd generally do fine by assuming that any word unknown to you is one.) |
| 03:02.36 | Phenax | It's a fork of Sorcerer Linux |
| 03:02.46 | Phenax | Which is loosely based off of FreeBSD |
| 03:02.46 | Jucato | Sho_: that's what I did with Kuroo... |
| 03:02.52 | Sho_ | Jucato: hehe |
| 03:02.54 | Renze | Sho_: Fhtagn Linux? |
| 03:02.58 | qupada | Jucato: it's linux written by d&d players. have a look at some of their terminology, it's hilarious |
| 03:03.17 | Jucato | qupada: that's the only thing I find interesting about it... for now |
| 03:03.32 | Sho_ | Renze: qapla! (if that was Klingon ;) |
| 03:03.39 | Renze | it wasn't ;) |
| 03:03.43 | Phenax | It's a great distro, sorcery is written almost completely in BASH I believe. |
| 03:03.49 | Renze | ïa ïa, Cthulhu fhtagn! |
| 03:03.51 | Phenax | (Sorcery = package manager) |
| 03:04.04 | Jucato | written in BASH!?!?! |
| 03:04.08 | Phenax | Yes!! |
| 03:04.15 | Sho_ | A package manager written in BASH? Masochists :-) |
| 03:04.27 | illogic-al | lmao |
| 03:04.45 | illogic-al | Jucato: eloquently said |
| 03:04.51 | Phenax | What have you got against Bash? |
| 03:04.52 | Jucato | :) |
| 03:05.12 | Sho_ | Phenax: The syntax of its scripting language makes my fingers hurt :) |
| 03:05.14 | hollywoodb | pfftt... Slackware's tools are also written in bash... I have yet to see one misbehave |
| 03:05.15 | Renze | zsh ftw! |
| 03:05.17 | Jucato | nothing against bash, nothing against package managers... but a bash-based package manager... |
| 03:05.22 | Sho_ | Renze: fish ftw! |
| 03:05.29 | Renze | mmmmm... fish... |
| 03:05.35 | hydrogen | isn't archlinuxes package manager all bash also? |
| 03:05.39 | Phenax | No.. |
| 03:05.43 | Sho_ | Renze: http://fishshell.org/ |
| 03:05.46 | illogic-al | NO! |
| 03:05.54 | Renze | Sho_: http://www.zsh.org/ |
| 03:05.58 | Phenax | Bash is likely more effencient then Python. Also, for most things it's the algothism used, not the language. |
| 03:05.59 | illogic-al | hydrogen: allow me to repeat... NO! |
| 03:06.03 | Sho_ | Renze: My URL is longer! |
| 03:06.09 | illogic-al | hydrogen: and once more... uh-uh. |
| 03:06.17 | *** join/#kde lnxkde (n=vlos@206.248.110.144) |
| 03:06.24 | Phenax | Zsh has good Bash-style emulation, you could likely just symlink it an then argument to bash ;).. I think bash is quite elegant. |
| 03:06.39 | hollywoodb | hydrogen: pacman is written in Haskell with a Scheme plugin layer |
| 03:06.51 | Sho_ | Phenax: Most importantly it's the readability and maintainability of code written in a certain language, and larger BASH "codebases" are neither readable nor maintainable ;) |
| 03:07.31 | Phenax | Sho_: Please, compare Sorcery's code and Portage. I bet you'll see much better readability and maintainability in Sorcery. |
| 03:07.37 | illogic-al | lol |
| 03:07.43 | feindbild | definitions of elegance may vary from country and culture and thus I'm not bashing anyone who thinks bash syntax is elegant =P |
| 03:07.50 | Phenax | Portage is pretty much a Bash wrapper for Python. |
| 03:07.57 | hydrogen | portage isn't a good demonstration of readable python package manager code |
| 03:07.59 | illogic-al | fishell looks pretty cool |
| 03:08.00 | Phenax | ITt's naaassttyy. |
| 03:08.03 | illogic-al | I like completion |
| 03:08.05 | illogic-al | a lot. |
| 03:08.10 | hollywoodb | Phenax: lunar linux forked from sorcerer as well, wasn't it ? |
| 03:08.17 | Phenax | hollywoodb: I believe so. |
| 03:08.30 | Jucato | lunar linux? |
| 03:08.33 | Phenax | But sorcery is pretty much a complete rewrite now. |
| 03:08.44 | illogic-al | know what else forked from sorcerer? |
| 03:08.45 | Phenax | As long with every other tool on it. |
| 03:08.52 | Phenax | http://sourcemage.org/Gentoo |
| 03:08.53 | illogic-al | morgan lefayux |
| 03:09.00 | Sho_ | Phenax: The potentially low craftsmanship in Portage's codebase doesn't do much to allay my reservations about using bash to write a package manager ;) |
| 03:09.34 | Jucato | that site looks more like sourceforge page than anything that has something to do with magic :P |
| 03:09.54 | Phenax | Sho_: I find it easy to read and understand in comparison with any code I've sifted through. If Bash can't be clean and readable, then everything else is quite horrible. |
| 03:10.06 | Sho_ | illogic-al: I recommend giving http://fishshell.org/user_doc/index.html a good once-over, it's a pretty neat shell. |
| 03:10.21 | hollywoodb | #! /bin/sh /sbin/installpkg ~460 lines, /sbin/pkgtool ~700 lines ;) |
| 03:10.43 | hollywoodb | my slackbuild template: about 200 lines |
| 03:10.48 | Phenax | Sorcery: ~33,000 lines |
| 03:11.06 | Phenax | (All in Bash ;)) |
| 03:11.07 | Sho_ | Renze: Oh and my URL actually *loads*, too (looks like zsh.org is down ;) |
| 03:11.11 | feindbild | hollywoodb: 200lines for a SlackBuild? wtf? |
| 03:11.17 | Renze | Sho_: looks that way |
| 03:11.27 | Renze | Sho_: maybe it's on the same server as kde-look? ;) |
| 03:11.27 | illogic-al | Sho_: thanks. checking it out now. |
| 03:11.52 | hydrogen | many portage developers agree that portage code isn't a really good thing to measure against :) |
| 03:12.02 | hydrogen | pkgcore is supposed to be more readable but I havn't looked |
| 03:12.09 | Phenax | Ha.. |
| 03:12.11 | hollywoodb | feindbild: lotsa comments and some whitespace, plus my template allow for about any source tarball (via variables) as long as it uses `make` and not `jam` or `scons`... then I have to edit |
| 03:12.25 | Phenax | I've found Paludis to be the best of that field. |
| 03:12.30 | Phenax | Fast, effencient, clean. |
| 03:12.51 | Phenax | And goes by Portage standards further than Portage. |
| 03:14.11 | Phenax | I figure Portage development will die off if there's not like a freaking complete rehaul of it, and then Pkgcore and/or Paludis will take over. |
| 03:14.37 | illogic-al | "Large, one-shot casts in Source Mage allow..." |
| 03:14.56 | illogic-al | I refuse to use a distro which refers to installing as casting spells |
| 03:15.02 | illogic-al | just on general principle. |
| 03:15.07 | Sho_ | I'd prefer a Trekkie-themed package manager |
| 03:15.13 | Jucato | lol |
| 03:15.14 | illogic-al | lol |
| 03:15.21 | Sho_ | Installing would be "replicating", and the central command would be "computer" |
| 03:15.23 | Phenax | It's very easy to write a bash wrapper for a bash script. |
| 03:15.23 | Renze | beam kde |
| 03:15.26 | Sho_ | i.e. "computer replicate kde" |
| 03:15.30 | hollywoodb | illogic-al: funny statement, does it tie into your nick somehow? ;) |
| 03:15.45 | illogic-al | Sho_: now that I could dig :-D |
| 03:15.54 | Alien_Freak | what are the little kde applets generally written in? |
| 03:16.12 | Sho_ | Alien_Freak: If you're referring to Kicker applets, C++ |
| 03:16.25 | illogic-al | hollywoodb: the thing that makes me illogic-al is calling myself illogic-al whilst doing totally logical things... like not using sourcemage. |
| 03:16.32 | Sho_ | Alien_Freak: Though you should be able to use Python, Ruby and JavaScript via the respective bindings |
| 03:16.34 | illogic-al | just on general principle :-) |
| 03:16.39 | hydrogen | so yea |
| 03:16.49 | hydrogen | that sourcemage gentoo page has more FUD than most microsoft press releases |
| 03:16.54 | hollywoodb | illogic-al: heh |
| 03:16.55 | Phenax | Like what? |
| 03:17.06 | illogic-al | "Sorcery has enhanced resurrect support" |
| 03:17.18 | illogic-al | WTF does that mean? |
| 03:17.19 | Phenax | ... Doesn't sound like FUD to me. |
| 03:17.22 | Alien_Freak | sourcemage gentoo page? |
| 03:17.28 | Alien_Freak | why would sourcemage have a gentoo page? |
| 03:17.38 | illogic-al | They bring back installs from the dead? |
| 03:17.38 | Jucato | to FUD gentoo? |
| 03:17.40 | Phenax | Because the distros are closely related. |
| 03:17.43 | Phenax | illogic-al: Yes. |
| 03:18.13 | illogic-al | Phenax: it was never alive to begin with. it doesn't eat, sleep, or shit |
| 03:18.21 | illogic-al | the hallmarks of a truly alive being. |
| 03:18.35 | Phenax | Most of the users are coming from Gentoo anyway. |
| 03:18.36 | illogic-al | I mean maybe the code behind it is crap... but still... |
| 03:18.36 | hollywoodb | what is "enhanced resurrect support for binary caches" |
| 03:18.43 | Sho_ | 'Again, it's all written in bash, and we consider Sorcery an example of the power of bash for high-level application development.' ... oh the insanity |
| 03:18.53 | illogic-al | hollywoodb: it brings installs back from the dead. really. |
| 03:19.02 | illogic-al | I didn't just make that up. |
| 03:19.19 | Phenax | hollywoodb: I'd say it makes a binary cache when you build the package, so it can be resurrected later. I'm not certain (I don't use the feature much), try #sourcemage |
| 03:19.36 | Alien_Freak | eh.. I dunno.. been a big fan of gentoo for a while.. link for that url? |
| 03:19.40 | hydrogen | insanity: most of the comparisons with the GLEPS are messed up for one |
| 03:19.43 | *** join/#kde Q-collective (n=Q-collec@futility.demon.nl) |
| 03:19.55 | Phenax | Jucato: There are "Possible Disadvantages" |
| 03:20.01 | illogic-al | Jucato: the ricers deserve it |
| 03:20.04 | illogic-al | }:-) |
| 03:20.15 | hydrogen | they throw around lots of value words without backing it up |
| 03:20.20 | Phenax | illogic-al: Resurrection can refer to bringing back from an 'unused' state. |
| 03:20.23 | Jucato | why single out or compare a specifc distro? |
| 03:20.30 | Jucato | Mandriva seems to be doing it as well |
| 03:20.39 | hollywoodb | illogic-al: does it "really" bring them back or are they in an animated state... "living dead" so-to-speak.... I'd prefer to avoid zombie processes |
| 03:20.45 | Jucato | Turn Undead! |
| 03:20.54 | Phenax | Jucato: I've already answered that. The main users are ex-Gentoo users, and they are two large, very closely related, source-based distribution. |
| 03:21.07 | Jucato | bah! mages like me can't cast Holy-type spells... |
| 03:21.15 | illogic-al | hollywoodb: that only happens when you Cast dark magicks (use gentoo). |
| 03:21.22 | illogic-al | sourcemage uses white magicks |
| 03:21.25 | qupada | Renze: i wouldn't. someone can just pull out a big fuckoff magnet and you're screwed. liquid oxygen is magnetic |
| 03:21.34 | hollywoodb | aha |
| 03:21.36 | illogic-al | i didn't just make that up. really. |
| 03:21.56 | illogic-al | qupada: I call bullshit |
| 03:21.59 | *** join/#kde StarScream (n=am@ppp102-106.static.internode.on.net) |
| 03:22.05 | illogic-al | qupada: where be thy proof |
| 03:22.19 | Jucato | illogic-al: mages, by definition, can't cast sacred "spells", afaik |
| 03:22.22 | illogic-al | and so help me if you say wikipedia i'm going to do something naughty |
| 03:22.35 | Sho_ | (you guys are weird. seriously.) |
| 03:22.41 | illogic-al | LOL |
| 03:22.44 | Jucato | rofl |
| 03:23.02 | qupada | Sho_: thanks, i try |
| 03:23.12 | Renze | mmmmm... pie... |
| 03:23.21 | illogic-al | poontand pie? |
| 03:23.29 | illogic-al | s/poontand/poontang |
| 03:24.19 | hollywoodb | way I figure it, everyone should be running Antomic Linux, everything else is just bells and whistles: http://antomic.sourceforge.net/ |
| 03:24.48 | Jucato | O.o |
| 03:24.56 | illogic-al | I just threw up a little in my mouth. |
| 03:25.01 | Phenax | GNOME is used as the desktop environment. |
| 03:25.03 | illogic-al | nm. got it back down again. |
| 03:25.05 | Phenax | Not the best for a KDE room. |
| 03:25.23 | hollywoodb | SourceForge still has the ISO up! 300MB, released Sept 2002! |
| 03:25.40 | *** join/#kde gcc_ (n=gcc@adsl-070-145-091-239.sip.flo.bellsouth.net) |
| 03:26.27 | Renze | one day we'll be looking back on AegeanLinux and wondering what happened to that too ;) |
| 03:26.44 | Jucato | lol |
| 03:26.55 | hydrogen | whats a KDE? |
| 03:27.16 | hollywoodb | heh, I was just browsing DistroWatch from 2002 and seeing what distros still had pages lying around, and which names I could still recognize |
| 03:27.24 | feindbild | Renze: any other suggestion besides katalog? =) |
| 03:27.46 | Renze | feindbild: for KDE? |
| 03:27.57 | feindbild | Renze: yes |
| 03:28.10 | illogic-al | lol |
| 03:28.15 | Renze | don't think so |
| 03:28.31 | feindbild | Renze: k ^^ |
| 03:29.14 | Phenax | What's a good ID3 tagger for KDE.. (Hopefully supporting batch tagging) |
| 03:29.35 | Sho_ | Amarok's playlist |
| 03:29.37 | Jucato | Amarok |
| 03:29.47 | Jucato | Amarok's Collection |
| 03:30.04 | Phenax | I'd rather not get Amarok just to id3 tag my music.. :/ |
| 03:30.07 | Sho_ | Jucato: I often use the playlist to mass-tag files before moving them to the collection |
| 03:30.14 | Jucato | ah |
| 03:30.18 | Jucato | I do it the other way around |
| 03:30.29 | Sho_ | ain't choice lovely |
| 03:30.31 | Sho_ | ;) |
| 03:30.51 | Jucato | sometimes... but I rarely have my music in playlists to begin with... |
| 03:31.07 | *** join/#kde lnxkde (n=vlos@206.248.110.144) |
| 03:31.11 | Jucato | I import them into the collection, sort and tag them there, and then make a playlist... |
| 03:31.18 | Sho_ | Jucato: I meant the prominent playlist area in the window |
| 03:31.37 | Jucato | yeah |
| 03:31.54 | Phenax | Any id3 taggers that aren't included with amarok..? |
| 03:32.37 | Sho_ | [04:32] <MrGrim> hmm if I could speak in #kde I'd bring up how adding to the collection will rename based on tags as the reason why I tag before adding |
| 03:32.39 | Renze | I don't use any but Amarok |
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| 03:32.50 | Jucato | Hobbsee!!!! |
| 03:32.54 | Jucato | fancy seeing you here :P |
| 03:32.56 | Hobbsee | hey Jucato |
| 03:33.17 | Jucato | Hobbsee: welcome to one of my parking lots :P |
| 03:33.22 | Hobbsee | hehe |
| 03:34.09 | Sho_ | Hobbsee: People sometimes recommend to delete ~/.kde to revert to default settings or out of malice, not realizing (or praying on) that people don't know that .kde also holds a lot of data that would be lost this way |
| 03:34.28 | Sho_ | Hobbsee: Hence the topic advises against it |
| 03:34.51 | Hobbsee | Sho_: ah right. i was thinking it was a warning of "you will kill your system if you rm -rf ~/.kde, which is false. |
| 03:35.18 | Jucato | you won't kill your system... just some of you data :) |
| 03:35.30 | Hobbsee | done that a few times before |
| 03:35.33 | Jucato | which is a bit worse :P |
| 03:36.02 | Hobbsee | perhaps |
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| 03:37.21 | Jucato | Hobbsee: how's it going? LTNT :) |
| 03:37.30 | Hobbsee | :P |
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| 03:41.10 | Alien_Freak | well.. they could tell people to type in rm -fr / to reset your kde settings.. *cough* among other things |
| 03:43.00 | MrGrim | hmm |
| 03:43.13 | MrGrim | :D |
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| 04:18.37 | stoned | g'night, I'm out |
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| 04:23.25 | lunitik | Alien_Freak: anyone using -f deserves the consequences. |
| 04:23.57 | lunitik | Alien_Freak: I don't care how much of n00b they are... forcing things is not smart |
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| 04:31.31 | Daverocks | hey, konqueror is a bit erratic with its font sizes :( |
| 04:31.55 | Daverocks | i try setting it in settings -> fonts, but the proportion between pages remains the same |
| 04:32.15 | Daverocks | actually hang on :P |
| 04:34.54 | Daverocks | ok, i fixed it to a degree. now the font sizes are much more loyal to firefox's ones when i have minimum size 8 and medium size 11 ... but it's still not perfect :( |
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| 05:33.11 | kilrae | Daverocks: i find that 8 and 12 work just fine for me for mimicking firefox |
| 05:33.50 | Daverocks | kilrae: that would be alright, but wikipedia text is still very large |
| 05:35.14 | kilrae | there's a definite line-spacing difference though |
| 05:35.41 | Daverocks | not that i can see :S |
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| 05:36.29 | kilrae | oooh, you're right about wikipedia |
| 05:36.51 | Daverocks | this is the only thing keeping me away from konqueror :( |
| 05:36.58 | Daverocks | well, not the only thing :( |
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| 05:37.06 | Jejem | konqueror sucks. |
| 05:40.59 | kilrae | i want a qt firefox |
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| 05:54.50 | Renze | wouldn't contributing to konqueror/khtml be more productive than whining about it on IRC? |
| 05:55.32 | Daverocks | khtml is fine, just the font sizes are a bit off... is there some way i can contribute to help that? ^_^ |
| 05:55.38 | Daverocks | svn or something, heh |
| 05:55.43 | Jejem | Renze: if only i could... |
| 05:55.44 | Renze | do you know C++? |
| 05:56.00 | Daverocks | Renze: very very basic, i wouldn't be able to contribute to kde |
| 05:56.04 | Renze | the font sizes are fine to my eyes |
| 05:56.08 | Jejem | Renze: not enough...~ |
| 05:56.13 | Jucato | "contribution" doesn't mean only "programming". you can also contribute in other ways |
| 05:56.31 | Jejem | Jucato: i know :) |
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| 05:56.50 | Jucato | anything that helps developers do what they need to do (which is to develop): docs, bugs, testing |
| 05:56.59 | Jejem | i know² |
| 05:57.01 | Daverocks | Renze: well, just i can't get the wikipedia fonts small (like in firefox) without making fonts on all other webpages crazily small |
| 05:57.03 | Renze | user support |
| 05:57.04 | Jejem | and i'm already doing that :) |
| 05:57.11 | Daverocks | i was going to say docs :) |
| 05:57.53 | Renze | argh... digestive tract is punishing me for some unknown transgression... bbl |
| 05:58.22 | Jejem | poor guy, laul :) |
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| 05:59.45 | Jucato | :)) |
| 06:01.41 | Jejem | :)) |
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| 06:04.34 | Renze | I'm just glad I haven't been eating curry recently :D |
| 06:05.30 | Jucato | :) |
| 06:05.41 | Jucato | anyone here using basKet? |
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| 06:05.46 | Renze | yes |
| 06:06.16 | Jucato | Renze: can you do numbering/bullets in basKet, like in KNotes? |
| 06:06.41 | Renze | not in the same way... you can create sub-objects of objects |
| 06:06.53 | Jucato | ah..sucks... |
| 06:07.06 | Jucato | I just need a numbered list sometimes... |
| 06:07.18 | Renze | you can create a rich text object that has that, though |
| 06:07.39 | Jucato | the current basKet version has no distinction between plain and rich text anymore |
| 06:08.03 | Renze | really? let me check mine |
| 06:08.28 | Jucato | "All texts can be formated (bold, italic, color, font size...). Yes, it was possible previously, but too constraining. Now, text formating is a first-class citizen feature of the application" |
| 06:08.44 | Jucato | version 0.6.0 |
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| 06:09.51 | Renze | Jucato: yes, it does feel like it's a bit much, doesn't it? |
| 06:10.06 | Jucato | yes... |
| 06:10.22 | Jucato | but at the same time, the other alternative, KNotes, is a bit too weak... |
| 06:10.23 | Renze | but it is pretty :D |
| 06:10.47 | Jucato | the side "bar" per note kinda ticks me off a bit... |
| 06:11.07 | Renze | tell the authors :) |
| 06:11.24 | Renze | I kinda like it on the side |
| 06:11.58 | Jucato | basically, all I want is a KNotes that can: integrate "well" into Kontact, can be grouped, can be searched/filtered |
| 06:12.17 | Jucato | heck I even like what KNotes looks like (sticky note pads) |
| 06:12.18 | Renze | learn to code, and write it :D |
| 06:12.56 | Jucato | maybe... but basKet is now more famous... it's kinda useless to duplicate efforts :) |
| 06:13.05 | Jucato | sidebar is ok.. just needs a bit of getting used to |
| 06:13.11 | Renze | so learn to code, and help out on basket :D |
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| 06:13.57 | Jucato | as for learning to code... yeah getting there :) |
| 06:15.22 | FaeLLe[gentoo] | can k3b burn .daa files ? |
| 06:16.34 | Jucato | Renze: do you have basKet integrated into Kontact or as standalone? |
| 06:16.44 | Renze | in kontact |
| 06:16.57 | Jucato | ah |
| 06:17.40 | Jucato | wouldn't it be nice if you could see/click on children basket icons if you're viewing a parent basket? |
| 06:17.56 | Renze | ? |
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| 06:19.35 | Jucato | for example, I have a parent/main basket that has 2-3 sub-baskets and no contents. If I click on the parent/main basket, I see nothing. blank. I think it would be good if I could see the sub-baskets. (of course, I could see them in the tree-view side bar...) |
| 06:22.18 | Renze | Jucato: make a suggestion to the authors |
| 06:22.30 | Jucato | is basket included in bugs.kde.org? |
| 06:22.37 | Jucato | I plan to :) |
| 06:22.38 | Renze | not sure |
| 06:22.53 | Jucato | ok I'll check :) |
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| 06:23.49 | Jucato | looks like it is |
| 06:24.11 | Jucato | makes it easier :) |
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| 06:31.23 | crazy_bus | What do I need to do if I wan't to download a half finished Ktorrent file in a different cilent? |
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| 06:33.02 | shadok | just copy the temp directory and read the available options in File menu |
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| 06:38.17 | Jucato | afaik, KTorrent uses ~/.kde/share/apps/ktorrent/ as the temp directory for torrents |
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| 06:49.06 | Renze | probably a limitation of bugzilla |
| 06:49.43 | Jucato | you get to choose whether it's a bug or wishlist near the end only |
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| 06:54.03 | mortici | how can i reset the settings for the main panel? |
| 06:54.06 | Jucato | hm.. bugs.kde.org seems a bitslow today... |
| 06:54.43 | GraveDigger | moin moin :) |
| 06:55.11 | Renze | eben |
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| 07:07.47 | wishie | i have arts running, and when i press "Test Sound" all works fine. but, no system sounds seem to work at all.. |
| 07:08.00 | GraveDigger | great |
| 07:08.05 | GraveDigger | what soundcard do you have? |
| 07:08.11 | wishie | emu10k1 |
| 07:08.23 | wishie | sb live |
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| 07:08.24 | GraveDigger | wonderful |
| 07:08.31 | GraveDigger | the sb live has wavetables and hardware mixing support integrated |
| 07:08.43 | GraveDigger | you dont need no crappy sound system for this card |
| 07:08.45 | GraveDigger | :) |
| 07:08.59 | GraveDigger | no arts |
| 07:09.00 | wishie | thats the only way to get system sounds in kde though, right ? |
| 07:09.02 | GraveDigger | no stinking esound |
| 07:09.12 | wishie | i would prefer not to have to use arts |
| 07:09.19 | wishie | but i do want _some_ system sounds |
| 07:09.26 | GraveDigger | no, system sounds do not require arts |
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| 07:09.36 | wishie | hmm, interesting |
| 07:09.44 | GraveDigger | at least i think so |
| 07:09.54 | GraveDigger | one moment, i'll try them |
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| 07:11.45 | Renze | just set an external player in the System Notifications page (Player Settings button) |
| 07:12.00 | Renze | then turn off arts and never use it again :D |
| 07:12.08 | wishie | what external player is recommended ? |
| 07:12.12 | GraveDigger | exactly! |
| 07:12.20 | GraveDigger | wishie: whatever you want... |
| 07:12.31 | Renze | I recommend "play" from the sox package... small, fast, and plays damn near everything |
| 07:12.40 | wishie | Renze: thank you |
| 07:12.45 | Renze | no problem |
| 07:12.49 | GraveDigger | +1 |
| 07:13.14 | wishie | ok, thats better |
| 07:13.30 | wishie | i was after something fast/small |
| 07:13.34 | wishie | play seems to be the go |
| 07:14.02 | wishie | oh hmm |
| 07:14.15 | wishie | now i need to tell 'play' to use a certain device..heh |
| 07:14.55 | Renze | play -d <device> |
| 07:15.04 | Jucato | Renze: KDE uses aRts only for notifications, right? |
| 07:15.07 | wishie | Renze: yeah, but how to enter that in the "External player" section |
| 07:15.12 | Renze | Jucato: I have no arts problems either, because I have no arts :D |
| 07:15.18 | wishie | Renze: perhaps i have to quote it |
| 07:15.30 | Renze | Jucato: and noatun and kaboodle use arts only, and sound file preview |
| 07:15.49 | Jucato | so I can't use play/sox for sound file preview? |
| 07:15.51 | Renze | wishie: if in doubt, write a script, and call the script instead |
| 07:15.56 | Renze | Jucato: no |
| 07:16.03 | Jucato | ok... nvm then :) |
| 07:16.07 | Renze | small price to pay |
| 07:16.16 | Jucato | hm... let me try |
| 07:16.17 | Renze | at least I'm not crashing daily any more :D |
| 07:16.19 | wishie | Renze: yeah, just figuring out how to use the ch51dup device through it.. so i get system sounds out all speakers |
| 07:16.31 | Jucato | hm... never had an arts crash before... |
| 07:16.38 | Renze | Jucato: I've had LOTS |
| 07:16.47 | Jucato | I only had one problem with arts before.. but that seemingly disappeared |
| 07:16.55 | Renze | Jucato: even the author thinks it is crap |
| 07:16.58 | wishie | ive never liked the idea of software servers for audio, like esd, arts etc.. seem like a bad idea |
| 07:17.04 | Jucato | arts is dead anyway |
| 07:17.11 | Renze | the author dropped it and wants nothing to do with it any more |
| 07:17.21 | Jucato | I'm just using it because it's installed with kde-core by default :) |
| 07:17.26 | Renze | wishie: it was necessary with old hardware, unfortunately |
| 07:17.32 | Jucato | (and because I'm too lazy to use anything else) |
| 07:17.56 | Renze | Jucato: two or three times a day, artsd would peg my CPU at 100% |
| 07:18.06 | Jucato | aw... |
| 07:18.10 | Jucato | really strange |
| 07:19.03 | Jucato | the only problem I had with arts a few months (almost 2) ago was that sound notifications would suddenly "disappear". restarting arts solved that. but for some reason, it doesn't happen anymore |
| 07:19.31 | wishie | hmm, this is odd... |
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| 07:22.16 | wishie | ok, so 'play -d ch51dup <file>' works from a command line, but if i put 'play -d ch51dup' in sys_sounds.sh or similar, when i run it, i get an error |
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| 07:22.54 | thiago | which error? |
| 07:22.59 | Renze | wishie: try 'play -d ch51dup "$*" &' |
| 07:23.26 | Renze | and make sure #!/bin/sh is the first line |
| 07:23.28 | Renze | and chmod +x it |
| 07:24.11 | wishie | yeah, it was the $* |
| 07:24.21 | wishie | i was about to put $1 there anyway, as i realised my error |
| 07:26.11 | jordo23 | Anyone have any experience with NSPLUGINWRAPPER? |
| 07:27.51 | wishie | hmm |
| 07:28.05 | wishie | now i seem to only get sound from 5 of my 6 speakers |
| 07:28.19 | wishie | im getting nothing from front right speaker with system sounds |
| 07:29.05 | Renze | that can't be KDE's fault :P |
| 07:29.53 | wishie | odd, speaker test seems to work though, but yeah, if anything, its play, which has nothing to do with KDE |
| 07:30.39 | wishie | i think the sound i just test was only 1 channel though |
| 07:31.03 | wishie | ahh |
| 07:31.05 | wishie | there lies the problem |
| 07:31.19 | wishie | it seems play doesnt like trying to average out 1 channel across 6 |
| 07:32.36 | wishie | argh, now for alsa questions.. i guess #alsa is my best bet for that |
| 07:33.01 | Renze | probably |
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| 07:33.45 | wishie | this sb live is so much easier in, dare i say it, windows. |
| 07:34.13 | Renze | well of course... they have money |
| 07:34.20 | Renze | money changes everything |
| 07:35.17 | Renze | kde-*.org are back |
| 07:35.25 | Renze | but they're still running slow |
| 07:37.18 | Jucato | :) |
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| 07:43.49 | wishie | why not ? |
| 07:44.13 | Jucato | simple: they don't work :) |
| 07:44.34 | Jucato | I mean, keyboard shortcuts on those folders |
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| 07:56.56 | eunonsei | good morning |
| 07:58.22 | eunonsei | ive been trying to print a web table from konqueror, it is like that: <table height="100%">... but on print it goes just the half page, not the hole, sb knows why can it be? |
| 07:58.53 | Renze | because html doesn't know how big a page is |
| 07:59.11 | Renze | in fact, there is no concept of a page in html |
| 07:59.59 | eunonsei | and so...how could i make konqueror print the "hole" pake? ('cause firefox do it, not as good as id like, but better than konqueror...:( |
| 08:00.00 | Jucato | except as a "web"page |
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| 08:25.34 | ericP | i am using cups with the Hp940c driver cdj970, which seems to be configured by /usr/share/foomatic/db/source/driver/cdj970.xml |
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| 08:26.05 | ericP | http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=HP-DeskJet_940C recommends hpjis, but i don't know how to find the .xml file for it. any ideas? |
| 08:26.19 | ericP | hmm, perhaps more of a #debian question... |
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| 08:53.49 | siji | hi all |
| 08:54.08 | siji | is any tool is available for kde for 3d desktop |
| 08:54.47 | Daverocks | xgl/compiz? |
| 08:55.40 | Renze | kwin in kde4 already supports it natively, but kde4 won't be out till mid next year |
| 08:56.03 | Renze | until then, you can use xgl/aiglx with compiz/beryl or similar |
| 08:57.51 | siji | is it for me |
| 08:58.06 | Renze | is what for you? |
| 08:58.27 | siji | kde 3d desktop tool |
| 08:58.51 | Renze | yes, those replies were for you |
| 08:59.07 | Renze | but setting up those things are beyond the scope of this channel |
| 08:59.26 | Daverocks | some distros make it easier than others... for example on suse 10.1 it's simple |
| 08:59.53 | siji | ok |
| 09:00.03 | Daverocks | but doing it yourself without pre-built packages and stuff is difficult, and it's very very easy to break X |
| 09:00.05 | Renze | there are plenty of howtos available online for various distros |
| 09:00.20 | Renze | but they will not be supported here |
| 09:00.47 | Daverocks | i have a question about the cursor themes in kde |
| 09:01.03 | Daverocks | is there a way to locate them and use them in other window managers? |
| 09:01.20 | Renze | user installed ones? |
| 09:01.27 | Renze | they should be in ~/.icons/ |
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| 09:01.48 | Daverocks | ~/.icons/ is empty |
| 09:01.55 | apt | okay, Daverocks |
| 09:01.58 | Daverocks | i haven't installed any though |
| 09:02.02 | Renze | and they're X cursor themes, not KDE cursor themes |
| 09:02.12 | Daverocks | ok, that makes sense |
| 09:02.19 | bline | apt: forget ~/.icons/ |
| 09:02.19 | apt | bline: i didn't have anything called '~/.icons/' to forget |
| 09:02.24 | Renze | they will be wherever X looks for them |
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| 09:02.39 | Renze | ~forget /.icons/ |
| 09:02.40 | apt | i forgot /.icons/, Renze |
| 09:03.04 | Daverocks | oops, sorry for messing up the bot XD |
| 09:04.27 | Daverocks | i know about xsetroot -cursor_name <cursor> but how will i make that work with the cursor themes? |
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| 09:05.37 | klerfayt | I've run out of ideas how to replace "nuvola" amarok icon with amarok's own icon (wolf head) |
| 09:06.14 | Renze | klerfayt: locate and delete every occurrence of amarok.png in the nuvola icon theme |
| 09:06.30 | klerfayt | I've tried ~.kde/share/icons and ~.icons |
| 09:06.47 | Renze | klerfayt: is it a user installed icon theme, or a system one? |
| 09:06.54 | klerfayt | I remember doing something like this with kmenu in the past |
| 09:07.05 | klerfayt | Renze: system wide |
| 09:07.08 | Renze | klerfayt: if it's a system one, look in `kde-config --prefix`/share/icons/ |
| 09:07.45 | Daverocks | hooray, found the systemwide path for the cursors, it's at /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/icons on here ^_^ |
| 09:08.53 | klerfayt | Renze: without ``? |
| 09:09.04 | Renze | klerfayt: with `` |
| 09:09.15 | Renze | type cd `kde-config --prefix`/share/icons/ |
| 09:09.46 | klerfayt | Renze: I see and now what? |
| 09:09.57 | Renze | klerfayt: ls |
| 09:10.03 | Renze | is there a folder called nuvola there? |
| 09:10.11 | Daverocks | what command does kcontrol use to change the cursor theme? |
| 09:10.13 | klerfayt | Renze: where is |
| 09:10.24 | Renze | klerfayt: type "ls" |
| 09:10.30 | klerfayt | Daverocks: man kcontrol? |
| 09:11.10 | klerfayt | Renze: "where is" - "I can see" in my english :) |
| 09:11.11 | Daverocks | klerfayt: no, i mean, i know how to use kcontrol to change the cursor theme, but i think kcontrol performs another external command to do what it does, and i want to know what that is |
| 09:11.16 | Renze | klerfayt: do I have to teach you the basics of shell commands too? |
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| 09:11.43 | Renze | klerfayt: there is a folder called "nuvola"? then that is where the icons are |
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| 09:13.35 | klerfayt | Renze: no you do not have to; I just can't understand why I could change kmenu icon in the past using system wide iconset (crystal); so I believe that nuvola iconset can be changed also by creating something in my home directory |
| 09:14.24 | Renze | klerfayt: you can, but I am not about to walk you through creating a new icon set that inherits nuvola and only contains the icons for amarok... it's late here, and I have a headache |
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| 09:34.08 | klerfayt | how to create icon set that inherits nuvola and only contains amarok icons? |
| 09:35.57 | klerfayt | I tried ~.kde/share/icons/nuvola with folders 16x16/apps, 22x22/apps and 32x32/apps |
| 09:37.17 | shadok | basket ownz |
| 09:37.40 | klerfayt | then I tried the same thing in ~.icons/nuvola but nothing changed so I tried ~.icons and still nothing changed with amarok icon is system tray |
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| 09:52.41 | rohan | anyone find that kde 3.5.5 konqueror is not passing the acid2 test ? or is it just a problem on my computer ? |
| 09:52.47 | rohan | http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html#top |
| 09:53.31 | smir | isnt it supposed to pass it ? |
| 09:53.37 | smir | lemme test :) |
| 09:54.42 | rohan | please :) |
| 09:54.55 | rohan | i just opened it now .. for no reason .. and its failing |
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| 09:55.17 | Daverocks | kdm is setting this "crystal" cursor when it loads any window manager, how do i configure what it sets? |
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| 09:55.52 | Daverocks | brb |
| 09:55.54 | rohan | Daverocks: meaning, while being in kdm, you want a different cursor ? |
| 09:56.38 | Q-collective | hehe |
| 09:56.57 | rohan | Q-collective: :-s |
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| 09:57.36 | Q-collective | [10:52:41] <rohan> anyone find that kde 3.5.5 konqueror is not passing the acid2 test ? or is it just a problem on my computer ? |
| 09:57.38 | Q-collective | known issue |
| 09:57.57 | rohan | Q-collective: oh, ok, so i don't file a bug for it, right ? |
| 09:58.09 | Q-collective | the test passes on some systems, fails on others |
| 09:58.14 | Q-collective | smells like a hack |
| 09:58.36 | Q-collective | rohan: there is a bug about it in bugzilla, look it up |
| 09:58.40 | mariux | isnt it the font size? |
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| 09:58.52 | Q-collective | mariux: yes, that was the issue iirc |
| 09:58.56 | rohan | Q-collective: ok, my bad |
| 09:59.23 | rohan | here it fails at all font sizes.. tho' /me checks out the bu |
| 09:59.25 | Q-collective | rohan: what do you get? |
| 09:59.25 | rohan | *bug |
| 09:59.35 | Q-collective | as a result that is |
| 09:59.39 | rohan | Q-collective: a red line, and bit broken at the top |
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| 09:59.49 | Nicxjo | hello |
| 09:59.49 | Q-collective | yeah, I get the same red line |
| 09:59.53 | rohan | i mean, a red line that top, that is not supposed to be .. and broken |
| 09:59.58 | Q-collective | left bottom of the smiley, right? |
| 10:00.05 | Q-collective | oh |
| 10:00.07 | rohan | no .. top |
| 10:00.08 | smir | works fine for me |
| 10:00.11 | rohan | at the head |
| 10:00.51 | Q-collective | http://www.q-collective.org/screenshots/acid2-konq-3.5.5.png <-- that is my result since konq 3.5.0 |
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| 10:01.07 | Nicxjo | i just update to kde 3.5.5 (from ubuntu dapper to edgy) and i'm disapointed... in the left tree of konqueror, i only see "home" and "media", how to avoid that ! |
| 10:01.22 | mariux | are you able to read that font? |
| 10:01.37 | rohan | Q-collective: can you link me to the bug report ? i am unable to find it |
| 10:01.39 | Jucato | Nicxjo: in #kubuntu please. |
| 10:01.46 | Q-collective | Nicxjo: load the webbrowsing profile |
| 10:01.57 | Jucato | Q-collective: no, it something Kubuntu did in / |
| 10:02.05 | Q-collective | oh |
| 10:02.18 | Nicxjo | Jucato: it's a kubuntu particularity ? |
| 10:02.22 | rohan | yes |
| 10:02.24 | Jucato | yes |
| 10:02.28 | rohan | rm /.hidden or so |
| 10:02.34 | Jucato | I already sent you the link |
| 10:02.43 | klerfayt | is there an icon cache in ~ or something? why I got same old nuvola amarok icons in kmenu and system tray even though I rewrote them with amarok's own icons? |
| 10:02.59 | Nicxjo | Jucato: omfg |
| 10:03.00 | Jucato | klerfayt: you have tried restarting kicker? |
| 10:03.14 | Jucato | klerfayt: not also sure if kbuildsycoca helps |
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| 10:03.50 | klerfayt | Jucato: I did "dcop kicker Panel restart" |
| 10:04.06 | Jucato | hm.. "dcop kicker kicker restart" not sure if they're the same |
| 10:04.13 | rohan | they are the same |
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| 10:04.24 | Jucato | ... acid2 test renders correctly here |
| 10:04.33 | Jucato | that's a bit surprising considering I'm on Kubuntu :P |
| 10:04.43 | rohan | Jucato: actually, its not |
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| 10:04.49 | Jucato | but it didn't render correctly last I checked using 3.5.3 |
| 10:04.55 | klerfayt | do I have icon cache somethere in ~.kde? |
| 10:05.04 | Jucato | klerfayt: afaik, no |
| 10:05.09 | mariux | klerfayt: tried rebuilding syscoca? |
| 10:05.22 | klerfayt | mariux: how? |
| 10:05.22 | rohan | klerfayt: try logging out and back in, in kde ? (don't see how that could help, though :P) |
| 10:05.41 | mariux | kbuildsycoca |
| 10:05.41 | Jucato | klerfayt: "kbuildsycoca" |
| 10:06.13 | rohan | what exactly does kyscoca do ? |
| 10:06.18 | klerfayt | kio (KSycoca): ERROR: No database available! |
| 10:06.25 | rohan | same here |
| 10:06.25 | Jucato | that's normal/harmless |
| 10:06.26 | rohan | :D |
| 10:06.53 | Q-collective | rohan: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109195 |
| 10:06.55 | icwiener | ERRORs should never be harmless. :( |
| 10:07.01 | Q-collective | they marked it as "resolved" |
| 10:07.02 | Q-collective | bs :\ |
| 10:07.26 | icwiener | Resolution: WORKSFORME ;) |
| 10:07.31 | Jucato | icwiener: that one is, afaik |
| 10:07.49 | rohan | Q-collective: thanks a lot :) |
| 10:07.50 | klerfayt | I replaced /usr/share/icons/nuvola/22x22/apps/amarok.png and nothing, I still see same old amarok nuvola icon in system tray |
| 10:07.55 | benJIman | red bar happens if you're using a non-standard font size |
| 10:07.58 | benJIman | and it's not an error |
| 10:08.59 | rohan | bs .. it worked before here |
| 10:09.06 | rohan | and now suddenly it doesnt, with kde 3.5.5 |
| 10:09.11 | rohan | no change in font size |
| 10:09.14 | benJIman | fine with 3.5.5 here |
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| 10:09.33 | Q-collective | benJIman: so, the test sucks? |
| 10:09.35 | Jucato | ditto |
| 10:09.44 | icwiener | Jucato: What I meant was, that things that are harmless should be outprinted as "warnings". |
| 10:09.50 | benJIman | Q-collective: no, it's does what it's intended to. |
| 10:09.59 | Jucato | icwiener: ah |
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| 10:12.11 | Jucato | acid2 test works for me here, which previously didn't work for me in KDE 3.5.3... |
| 10:12.15 | Jucato | anyway, brb... |
| 10:12.48 | Worf | What could be wrong when i copy&paste text from kpdf, and i just get some weird garbage ( looks quite random to me ) |
| 10:12.54 | JohnFlux | warriorness: hey |
| 10:13.08 | JohnFlux | warriorness: I fixed the border thing for you in ksysguard |
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| 10:13.49 | leshaste | how do you find out what the latest version of kde apps are? For example kbackgammon. They don't seem to have their own webpages |
| 10:14.04 | klerfayt | hmm I see why nothing changed - because kubuntu menu icon size wasn't 22 or 16; what about system tray - what is the size of it? |
| 10:14.20 | Q-collective | leshaste: check in your package manager |
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| 10:14.47 | leshaste | well that's portage but I think it is out of date |
| 10:15.00 | Q-collective | 3.5.5 is the latest |
| 10:15.38 | leshaste | so all the apps have the same revision number as the kde as a whole? |
| 10:15.39 | Q-collective | 3.5.2 is the only version prior to that |
| 10:15.51 | Q-collective | in portage anyway |
| 10:16.00 | Q-collective | and most apps do, yes |
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| 10:24.42 | Jucato | klerfayt: I think 22x22 or 16x16... not entirely sure |
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| 10:26.07 | klerfayt | Jucato: ok here are some odd facts - kubuntu default menu and syst. tray size is 22; if I change menu icon size to 16 I can see modified amarok icon after I have restart kicker |
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| 10:26.53 | Jucato | klerfayt: heh.. I have no idea... :) |
| 10:28.12 | klerfayt | Jucato: I changed 16, 22 and 32 size amarok nuvola icons and only size 16 shows up in kmenu after dcop kicker kicker restart |
| 10:28.25 | Jucato | and in the system tray? |
| 10:28.42 | Jucato | yeah, I think the K Menu uses 16x16, systray uses 22x22 |
| 10:28.43 | klerfayt | Jucato: nothing changes, same nuvola icon |
| 10:29.05 | Jucato | don't you just hate that Nuvola icon for Amarok? :) |
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| 10:29.48 | klerfayt | Jucato: actually menu icon size 32 does change icon, only 22 has problem |
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| 10:47.41 | xororand | does vanilla kde 3.5.5 have an ftps kioslave? |
| 10:49.40 | mariux | sure |
| 10:49.52 | mariux | ftp://username:passord@host |
| 10:49.56 | xororand | ftps |
| 10:50.02 | mariux | ahh, well sure |
| 10:50.04 | mariux | sftp its called |
| 10:50.04 | Jucato | sftp:/ |
| 10:50.09 | xororand | that's different to ftps |
| 10:50.19 | mariux | really? |
| 10:50.32 | xororand | ftps = ftp protocol with implicit ssl encryption for the control and optionally for the data channel |
| 10:50.46 | xororand | sftp = ssh connection with an sftp-server on the remote side afaik |
| 10:51.02 | xororand | nm, just found sth on kde-apps.org: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=35875 |
| 10:51.23 | Jucato | no, I don't think KDE has that by default |
| 10:51.31 | xororand | should have :) |
| 10:51.58 | mariux | http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=35875 |
| 10:52.10 | mariux | dou! |
| 10:52.13 | Jucato | file a wish in bugs.kde.org |
| 10:52.14 | Jucato | :) |
| 10:52.33 | Jucato | or ask your distro to install it by default |
| 10:52.35 | xororand | i'll do if this package works fine |
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| 11:09.03 | malix0 | hi all |
| 11:09.29 | *** join/#kde webben (n=benjamin@81.5.173.212) |
| 11:10.00 | webben | Is there any way to add the option to open /any/ text input in an external editor like gvim or even kate? |
| 11:10.14 | webben | (especially textarea in konqueror) |
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| 11:12.07 | Schalken | Where is the option to turn on NumLock when the computer starts/on login? |
| 11:12.26 | Jucato | Schalken: KControl -> Peripherals -> Keyboard |
| 11:12.47 | Schalken | Jucato: Ahhh there it is. Cheers! |
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| 11:13.49 | xororand | webben: there used to be kvim which was aimed at integrating vim as a kpart |
| 11:13.51 | xororand | haven't heard of it lately |
| 11:14.02 | webben | xororand, that's not quite the same thing |
| 11:14.14 | webben | i just want something even cruder which will launch an external editor |
| 11:14.31 | webben | then paste the results back into the textarea |
| 11:14.47 | klerfayt | how to refresh icon-cache? I removed amarok icons from nuvola but system tray is still using it |
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| 11:15.05 | webben | Konqueror seems to be the only major browser for which this is impossible, for some reason. |
| 11:15.40 | xororand | webben: that'd be nice too. i'm also a vim user btw :) |
| 11:16.37 | Schalken | klerfayt: Try restarting Amarok, then try KDE entirely. Otherwise Amarok might not get it's tray icon from the system iconset. |
| 11:16.38 | webben | If there was a general one for QT, I assume Opera could use it too. |
| 11:17.08 | klerfayt | Schalken: I already did |
| 11:17.10 | webben | (currently Opera can use an external editor on Windows using http://bur.st/~benc/?p=external ) |
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| 11:17.28 | klerfayt | Schalken: nuvola amarok icon is still there |
| 11:17.50 | Caster | geez why can't kaffeine remember plugin settings |
| 11:18.49 | klerfayt | Schalken: I was thinking that maybe I have to rebuild /usr/share/icons/default.kde/icon-theme.cache |
| 11:19.04 | Schalken | klerfayt: you could try searching for *amarok*.png to see if you can find the nuvola icon in a cache somewhere |
| 11:19.13 | Schalken | klerfayt: well, that would be over my head ;) |
| 11:20.12 | klerfayt | Schalken: nuvola amarok.png isn't anywhere |
| 11:21.10 | Schalken | klerfayt: did you try *amarok*.png so it find stuff like amarok_icon.png or sysamarok.png etc? |
| 11:22.44 | klerfayt | Schalken: I moved all amarok.png icons from nuvola to root |
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| 11:32.53 | malix0 | I have a problem with logout dialog. I've one PC where I install Kubuntu Edgy from fresh a 3 that I upgrade from Dapper. On the one fresh installed the logout dialog show me buttons eith text + icons, but on upgraded pc I see only text and can not find how t get icons |
| 11:34.35 | lunitik | malix0: #kubuntu |
| 11:34.55 | malix0 | lunitik: no help |
| 11:35.07 | *** join/#kde tagx (n=thomas@pool-71-163-134-51.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 11:35.16 | lunitik | malix0: oh well... its not a kde issue |
| 11:35.44 | malix0 | lunitik: If someone tell me where are configuration files I can try to solve the problem myself |
| 11:37.09 | malix0 | lunitik: which process pop the logout dialog? kicker? |
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| 11:42.17 | *** join/#kde klerfayt (n=klerfayt@85.196.226.132) |
| 11:42.46 | klerfayt | ok I solved the problem - there was amarol icon in nuvola/22x22/actions - no idea why |
| 11:43.55 | klerfayt | I guess I hit a bug in nuvola icons? :-) |
| 11:44.24 | JohnFlux | Two fish swim into a concrete wall. The one turns to the other and says, "Dam!" |
| 11:45.54 | klerfayt | amarok.png shouldn't be in nuvola/22x22/actions - amarok.png can only be in one place and that is /apps |
| 11:47.28 | klerfayt | anyway why does kde look into /actions to get system tray icon for amarok? |
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| 11:49.34 | islamguidedotcom | hi, does anyone have any trouble accessing msn's passport network? |
| 11:49.43 | islamguidedotcom | using konqueror |
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| 12:00.06 | Schalken | islamguidedotcom: worked for me just then |
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| 12:01.26 | *** join/#kde annma (n=annma@AToulouse-152-1-62-216.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:01.59 | islamguidedotcom | Schalken, i keep getting The server certificate failed the authenticity test (c.msn.com). |
| 12:02.43 | *** part/#kde cecule (n=op@fgb122.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 12:02.46 | Schalken | islamguidedotcom: what site in particular? |
| 12:02.54 | Jucato | annma!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 12:03.23 | islamguidedotcom | https://login.live.com/ppsecure/secure.srf?lc=1033&id=10&ru=https://accountservices.passport.net/default.srf%3Fsvc%3Dmail%26cbid%3D24325%26msppjph%3D1%26tw%3D0%26fs%3D1%26fsa%3D1%26fsat%3D1296000%26_lang%3DEN%26id%3D10%26vv%3D450%26lc%3D1033&tw=1200&fs=1&kv=7&ct=1165233695&cb=&cbid=24325&ems=1&seclog=10&ver=4.500.6241.0&tpf=32d53b41b285a7429c4f6af9b6c682e2 |
| 12:03.32 | annma | hi Jucato :) |
| 12:03.37 | islamguidedotcom | ops, the hotmail site |
| 12:03.42 | islamguidedotcom | then click account services |
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| 12:06.09 | mariux | how do i switch between the two views in a split view in konq using the keyboard? |
| 12:06.11 | Schalken | islamguidedotcom: you should be able to click 'continue' |
| 12:06.11 | MrGrim | annma: I liked the last blog entry on planet kde |
| 12:06.19 | annma | thanks! |
| 12:06.21 | Jucato | annma: I just checked docs.kde.org... then read your blog... :) |
| 12:06.25 | annma | ;) |
| 12:06.27 | annma | :)) |
| 12:06.47 | Schalken | islamguidedotcom: thats what i did |
| 12:06.55 | Jucato | annma: thank you thank you thank you :) |
| 12:07.01 | annma | thanks to you Jucato |
| 12:07.29 | MrGrim | annma: so what university do I need to go to to get my docbook phd? :D |
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| 12:07.57 | Jucato | annma: you did half the work. the doc would have remained as a 3rd party guide if not for you :) |
| 12:08.09 | annma | MrGrim: write in text! |
| 12:08.32 | annma | Jucato: not at all, as I said, it's a team work but the main part is to write the text |
| 12:08.44 | annma | after me there'll b e the translators |
| 12:09.06 | Jucato | yep. team effort. glad to be part of that team :) |
| 12:09.21 | annma | that's what I like |
| 12:09.24 | annma | :) |
| 12:10.06 | annma | :) |
| 12:10.10 | Jucato | I'll see where that will go :P |
| 12:11.38 | MrGrim | JohnFlux: haha I'm glad I decided to scroll up and read the history |
| 12:12.03 | MrGrim | what a bad yet still oddly funny joke :P |
| 12:12.14 | JohnFlux | :-D |
| 12:12.16 | Jucato | hehe quite a funny bit of "out of the blue" humor :P |
| 12:12.22 | icwiener | annma: apropos teamwork :) |
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| 12:12.55 | Jucato | icwiener: translating to German? :) |
| 12:12.55 | icwiener | annma: I have a few litte suggestion for the userguide Jucato wrote. :) |
| 12:13.07 | icwiener | Jucato: As well. :) |
| 12:13.12 | annma | icwiener: can you send a pqtch? |
| 12:13.14 | annma | patch |
| 12:13.21 | Jucato | heh there goes the 'q' again :) |
| 12:13.26 | annma | lol, yes |
| 12:13.32 | Schalken | Boy do I love Akregator and it's embedded Konqueror KPart! |
| 12:13.43 | Jucato | Schalken: ditto |
| 12:13.59 | Jucato | icwiener: what's the suggestion. I'm very interested :) |
| 12:14.00 | MrGrim | ya I barely use konqi itself anymore |
| 12:14.20 | icwiener | annma: Yes. It's almost all markup stuff, so Jucarto doesn't have to know atm *whisper* ;) |
| 12:14.24 | MrGrim | still constantly use it for file management |
| 12:14.30 | Jucato | icwiener: lol |
| 12:14.32 | annma | icwiener: oh, yes |
| 12:14.38 | annma | send, send! |
| 12:14.41 | Jucato | icwiener: nothing to do with content? |
| 12:14.51 | Jucato | konspiracies! |
| 12:14.55 | Jucato | :P |
| 12:15.00 | annma | icwiener: or do you have commit rights? |
| 12:15.20 | annma | if you have, you can fix it yourself |
| 12:15.21 | icwiener | Jucato: Just markup. The content is good as far as I can tell as a non-customizer. :) |
| 12:15.33 | Jucato | ah |
| 12:15.55 | Jucato | well, if you have content suggestions/changes, please do tell. So I can also change the one that I'm going to make for Kubuntu |
| 12:16.19 | Jucato | :) |
| 12:16.30 | icwiener | annma: I could (in trunk or branches?) but maybe you can have a short review. :) |
| 12:16.49 | annma | icwiener: you can, both trunk and branch if you can |
| 12:16.50 | icwiener | Kubuntu have different Docs? |
| 12:17.04 | annma | icwiener: I am sure it'll be pertinent |
| 12:17.31 | annma | if you don't have trunk i'll commit your changes |
| 12:17.32 | Jucato | icwiener: not really. we have just have some Kubuntu-specific docs |
| 12:17.43 | Jucato | icwiener: also, Kubuntu doesn't show KControl by default, so... |
| 12:18.18 | Schalken | Jucato: Yeah I prefer KControl over its little custom control panel. |
| 12:18.51 | Jucato | Schalken: I use System Settings and KControl interchangeably. Although I prefer System Settings for my day to day simple usage |
| 12:19.03 | icwiener | annma: Ok, will CC you then if you want (address?) |
| 12:19.29 | annma | annemarie.mahfouf@free.fr |
| 12:19.39 | icwiener | annma: ok |
| 12:19.49 | annma | thanks icwiener |
| 12:20.04 | Jucato | annma: the @kde.org one is still giving you trouble? |
| 12:20.12 | icwiener | np |
| 12:20.28 | annma | Jucato: it's an hotmail one :( |
| 12:20.35 | Jucato | ah |
| 12:20.48 | icwiener | @kde.org uses hotmail? |
| 12:21.01 | annma | @kde.org is a frontend |
| 12:21.10 | annma | I used hotmail as I moved a lot |
| 12:21.21 | annma | moved countries thus lost my provider address |
| 12:21.49 | annma | I'll get it changed now that I am in "stable" mode |
| 12:22.19 | icwiener | annma: "stable" mode or "stable" mood? :D |
| 12:22.26 | annma | lol |
| 12:22.34 | Jucato | :) |
| 12:22.35 | annma | mood is always stable |
| 12:22.43 | icwiener | good thing :) |
| 12:22.55 | annma | I am a believer in laughing |
| 12:23.10 | Jucato | heheh |
| 12:23.10 | icwiener | and another good thing :) |
| 12:23.21 | Jucato | my PC is more stable than my mood... :) |
| 12:23.35 | icwiener | hehe |
| 12:23.39 | annma | ;) |
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| 12:28.01 | Jucato | annma: have you seen "An Introduction to Design Patterns in C++ with Qt 4"? |
| 12:28.13 | annma | yes! |
| 12:28.15 | icwiener | Jucato: Link? :) |
| 12:28.26 | Jucato | http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Design-Patterns-Perens-Source/dp/0131879057 |
| 12:28.29 | annma | is it all free or only some chapters? |
| 12:28.39 | Jucato | annma: is it good? beginner level stuff? |
| 12:28.39 | annma | it's online somewhere |
| 12:28.45 | Jucato | only sample chapters |
| 12:28.49 | annma | not beginner |
| 12:28.59 | Jucato | "C++ GUI Programming in Qt 3" is free |
| 12:29.01 | annma | Design Patterns is not what I call beginner stuff |
| 12:29.23 | icwiener | Jucato: Content Question to the customization guide. :) |
| 12:29.42 | Jucato | icwiener: yep? |
| 12:29.47 | icwiener | Jucato: Color Scheme - Configuration file that indicates what colors to use [...] |
| 12:29.53 | icwiener | Jucato: Is it really a file? |
| 12:30.02 | Jucato | icwiener: .kcsrc file |
| 12:30.16 | icwiener | Jucato: I see. |
| 12:30.28 | icwiener | Jucato: So maybe adding the extension? |
| 12:30.38 | Jucato | .kth (KDE Theme) is an archive (.tar.gz) |
| 12:31.19 | Jucato | icwiener: I mentioned it in the section about colors |
| 12:31.23 | icwiener | .kth is mentions somewhere below |
| 12:31.31 | Jucato | hm... |
| 12:31.42 | icwiener | Ah, ok. I'm at the glossar atm. :) |
| 12:32.09 | Jucato | :) |
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| 12:34.41 | Jucato | annma: "An Introduction to Design Patterns in C++ with Qt 4 is a complete tutorial and reference that assumes no previous knowledge of C, C++, objects, or patterns. You'll walk through every core concept, one step at a time, learning through an extensive collection of Qt 4.1-tested examples and exercises." |
| 12:35.23 | annma | Jucato: cool! |
| 12:35.29 | Jucato | just interested with this book, as I would be able to hit 2 birds with 1 stone (C++ and Qt)... and it seems to be cheaper than C++ How to Program... |
| 12:35.40 | annma | I had a link for it online but it was on my stolen laptop |
| 12:35.47 | Jucato | annma: aw... :( |
| 12:36.04 | icwiener | And tha third bird is "Design Patterns". Always very helpful. |
| 12:36.22 | Jucato | there was this other book, "C++ GUI Programming in Qt 3" that is totally free, but the "C++ GUI Programming in Qt 4" isn't |
| 12:36.45 | Jucato | icwiener: I wouldn't know... complete beginner... that's why I was asking if it was beginner level stuff :) |
| 12:37.19 | Jucato | I thought Eckel would be a good intro... but turns out it requires a bit more programming knowledge than I currently have... |
| 12:37.48 | icwiener | My roommate says, design patterns are good to know from the beginning. Butit's not easy reading for a beginner though. |
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| 12:39.24 | annma | http://cartan.cas.suffolk.edu/moin/OopDocbook |
| 12:39.31 | annma | I found the online extracts |
| 12:39.50 | Jucato | oh cool! thanks! :) |
| 12:40.18 | Jucato | the sooner I could start studying C++, the sooner I could start studying Qt, and KDE :) |
| 12:40.29 | annma | :) |
| 12:40.42 | bline | C++ especially with Qt is fun. |
| 12:41.16 | bline | Qt makes all the difference though, the std libraries are not very fun. |
| 12:41.41 | annma | true bline |
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| 12:41.58 | GraveDigger | lol signals and slots are great |
| 12:42.00 | Jucato | STL... |
| 12:42.03 | GraveDigger | i dont know WHY they work |
| 12:42.05 | GraveDigger | but they work |
| 12:42.07 | GraveDigger | i love it |
| 12:42.08 | GraveDigger | :) |
| 12:42.10 | icwiener | :D |
| 12:42.26 | annma | Qt makes C++ look easy; however it's not so easy |
| 12:42.28 | Jucato | I don't think that book teaches (even briefly) STL... |
| 12:42.32 | bline | STL isn't too bad, but like std::string ugg |
| 12:42.34 | thiago | of course they work :-) |
| 12:42.41 | bline | Qt makes C++ look like perl. |
| 12:42.48 | icwiener | lool |
| 12:43.02 | annma | except you still have too learn the real stuff |
| 12:43.17 | GraveDigger | Qt made me like C++ |
| 12:43.19 | GraveDigger | honestly |
| 12:43.20 | GraveDigger | :) |
| 12:43.29 | annma | well, me too |
| 12:43.33 | rdale | I think it's easiest to learn Qt via PyQt or QtRuby, and then learn c++ afterwards |
| 12:43.36 | chemaja | gnu/linux is personally driving me crazy |
| 12:43.46 | chemaja | why is it so rag-tag still |
| 12:43.49 | annma | hi rdale our ruby guru |
| 12:43.51 | icwiener | annma: I keep tha C++ Primer under my pillow hoping that something gets into my head while I sleep. ;) |
| 12:43.56 | annma | lol |
| 12:44.05 | bline | All the nice unicode support in Qt is wonderful and very well done. |
| 12:44.07 | GraveDigger | Jucato: well... do it! |
| 12:44.09 | chemaja | seriously, i need help :( i'm about to install.... WINDOWS |
| 12:44.18 | Jucato | GraveDigger: yes... I'm digging up books... |
| 12:44.23 | chemaja | Debian KDE isn't doing it for me. |
| 12:44.30 | chemaja | (Etch) |
| 12:44.38 | Jucato | I hate it that the books sold in our local bookstores are 2 editions old... |
| 12:44.42 | annma | chemaja: maybe ask in #debian first |
| 12:44.46 | chemaja | Can someone recommend a decent distro? I'm guessing openSUSE has got all your votes... |
| 12:44.57 | chemaja | annma: no, debian isn't meeting the needs for this box |
| 12:45.04 | annma | what box is it? |
| 12:45.16 | chemaja | P3 600MHz 256MB RAM |
| 12:45.18 | chemaja | i know |
| 12:45.19 | chemaja | old |
| 12:45.40 | chemaja | i hates them linuxs |
| 12:45.46 | thiago | rdale: well, I already knew C++ but didn't Python or Ruby, so learning Qt in C++ was obviously much easier for me |
| 12:45.48 | chemaja | and i've been a runner of gnu/linux for 5 years now |
| 12:45.49 | annma | ok so you need a light distro without a lot of unwanted stuff |
| 12:46.03 | Jucato | hm... |
| 12:46.04 | chemaja | annma: how about StrippedDownKDEDistro |
| 12:46.05 | thiago | KDE should run normally on that hardware |
| 12:46.10 | Jucato | why not a source-based one? |
| 12:46.22 | Jucato | since you probably already know your way around |
| 12:46.23 | annma | chemaja: ? what is this? |
| 12:46.25 | chemaja | thiago: yes its fine but i need a speedy one. Jucato: COMPILE TIMES KILL MEEE |
| 12:46.31 | chemaja | annma: ? |
| 12:46.42 | annma | <chemaja> annma: how about StrippedDownKDEDistro |
| 12:46.49 | thiago | chemaja: if you need something speedy, get speedy hardware |
| 12:46.52 | chemaja | annma: my non-existant (?) dream distro |
| 12:47.01 | thiago | chemaja: but, like I said, KDE will run normally there. |
| 12:47.06 | annma | mandriva is very light |
| 12:47.13 | Jucato | chemaja: probably a better question is how Debian isn't working for you? |
| 12:47.25 | chemaja | thiago: ok here's the REAL problem. For my new Core 2 Duo laptop, do I go friendly open source Intel GMA950, or binary-evil NVIDIA Go? |
| 12:47.36 | chemaja | i can't decide |
| 12:47.39 | thiago | chemaja: both should work Ok |
| 12:47.39 | chemaja | so i'm in LIMBO :( |
| 12:47.54 | chemaja | thiago: but is 3D (ie. AIGLX) FAST on Intel? |
| 12:48.04 | thiago | I have no idea about 3D |
| 12:48.10 | thiago | and I couldn't care less about it |
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| 12:48.10 | chemaja | thiago: intel are releasing a next-gen 3D in Q2 2007 |
| 12:48.11 | GraveDigger | chemaja: do you want to play games on that notebook? |
| 12:48.17 | chemaja | GraveDigger: not realy |
| 12:48.21 | chemaja | GraveDigger: but i want aiglx |
| 12:48.25 | GraveDigger | chemaja: then go for intel |
| 12:48.32 | thiago | chemaja: in the long-term, Intel is the best choice because it will be better supported |
| 12:48.32 | GraveDigger | chemaja: then go for intel graphics |
| 12:48.52 | chemaja | GraveDigger: my friend has an 850, and AIGLX on FC6 is... lacking. |
| 12:49.00 | chemaja | GraveDigger: is a 950 any better? |
| 12:49.06 | GraveDigger | yes |
| 12:49.08 | GraveDigger | much better |
| 12:49.15 | chemaja | GraveDigger: hrm... |
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| 12:49.46 | chemaja | time to.... *drum foll* BURN FC6 LIVECD and test at a hw shop! |
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| 12:49.59 | chemaja | thanks everyone for the input |
| 12:50.21 | chemaja | ps. is dell pooware...? should i get something else? my friend said HP |
| 12:50.39 | GraveDigger | dell spies on you |
| 12:50.44 | GraveDigger | dont buy dell hardware |
| 12:50.46 | chemaja | GraveDigger: how so? |
| 12:50.48 | chemaja | ... |
| 12:50.53 | GraveDigger | they put keyloggers into their notebooks |
| 12:50.58 | GraveDigger | dell is evil |
| 12:51.01 | GraveDigger | ! |
| 12:51.04 | chemaja | GraveDigger: URL-proof? |
| 12:51.06 | GraveDigger | *g* |
| 12:51.11 | chemaja | dont say google im lazy |
| 12:51.12 | chemaja | ;) |
| 12:51.22 | GraveDigger | honestly i dont know anymore |
| 12:51.30 | GraveDigger | there once was a hoak about that |
| 12:51.36 | chemaja | ok |
| 12:51.40 | chemaja | i smell cow poo |
| 12:51.41 | chemaja | but yea |
| 12:51.43 | annma | icwiener: thanks |
| 12:52.03 | icwiener | annma: any changes or can I put it ti stable too? |
| 12:52.26 | thiago | GraveDigger: right, the same hoax that says that if you open an email with a certain subject, it'll emit subspace harmonics that will defrost your freezer? |
| 12:52.43 | GraveDigger | LOL |
| 12:52.49 | GraveDigger | thiago: never heard about THAT one |
| 12:53.11 | annma | icwiener: go for it and thanks |
| 12:53.17 | icwiener | ok, np |
| 12:53.46 | thiago | GraveDigger: how are they going to install a keylogger if you're not running any software shipped with the laptop? |
| 12:54.00 | annma | the HP is not well supported |
| 12:54.20 | annma | chemaja: for ex the sound does not work well |
| 12:54.33 | chemaja | annma: with GNUze? |
| 12:54.36 | chemaja | aka. linux |
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| 12:54.46 | chemaja | annma: what "chipset"? |
| 12:54.50 | annma | DVD cannot be cracked on Win |
| 12:54.52 | chemaja | i thought intel rocked that boat hard |
| 12:54.58 | annma | Intel Core |
| 12:55.01 | GraveDigger | thiago: dude... it was a hoax |
| 12:55.03 | klerfayt | one word in responce to "evil" nvidia driver: #nouveau |
| 12:55.19 | annma | HP Pavilion Entertainment PC |
| 12:55.38 | annma | how does one know he has evil nvidia? |
| 12:56.00 | GraveDigger | klerfayt: one word in response to nouveau: UNUSABLE! |
| 12:56.06 | Jucato | klerfayt: I'm looking forward to the day I could use that |
| 12:56.07 | chemaja | klerfayt: YES! but it's not near ready :( :( :( i need hw NOOOOW |
| 12:56.18 | chemaja | klerfayt: nouveau has 0 guarantee |
| 12:56.37 | GraveDigger | nouveau is unusable |
| 12:56.47 | GraveDigger | the devs write it themselves |
| 12:56.50 | chemaja | klerfayt: thanks for the... thought, though. |
| 12:57.08 | klerfayt | so does all gpl software have absolutely no warranty? |
| 12:57.30 | Jucato | the license itself doesn't include a warranty |
| 12:57.30 | GraveDigger | no |
| 12:57.44 | GraveDigger | but the developers do |
| 12:57.50 | GraveDigger | at least all sane devs |
| 12:58.03 | Jucato | and distributions may or may not provide some form of warranty |
| 12:58.17 | thiago | klerfayt: no warranty at all |
| 12:58.43 | thiago | klerfayt: the software is distributed as source code. As such, the only warranty it has is that it is source code :-) |
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| 12:59.19 | rdale | very little proprietary software comes with any sort of warranty either |
| 12:59.59 | thiago | but since they provide it in binary form, they must provide some implied warranties in some regions |
| 13:00.04 | shastry | except when the author says it is |
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| 13:02.09 | klerfayt | widescreen 1280x800 is weird - extra space compared to 1024x768 isn't very useful |
| 13:02.40 | thiago | klerfayt: huh, why not? |
| 13:02.40 | chemaja | klerfayt: yes, vert space is more useful |
| 13:03.04 | thiago | you have 32 more pixels in height and 256 more pixels in width |
| 13:03.06 | thiago | that's a lot |
| 13:03.22 | klerfayt | thiago: extra space I get isn't significant |
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| 13:03.29 | thiago | it is here |
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| 13:03.45 | Jucato | that's really a lot |
| 13:04.25 | thiago | 256 pixels in width is equivalent to 20 columns of width of text more, more or less |
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| 13:05.07 | Jucato | more horizontal space for windows |
| 13:05.15 | klerfayt | well I can't split screen between two applications - I need 2000pixels width at least I think |
| 13:05.33 | thiago | weird windows you have |
| 13:05.52 | chemaja | 1800x600 lolz |
| 13:06.00 | chemaja | time for pong, bitches |
| 13:06.00 | klerfayt | exaclty |
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| 13:06.53 | chemaja | where were you guys? |
| 13:07.42 | Jucato | busy looking the other way |
| 13:07.51 | paoleela|w | Hello. My kicker dies after a while. So far this happened after about 8h work, but recently it dies already after 4h. Then only killall kicker && kicker &>/dev/null helps. I'm sure this is a dual screen issue. |
| 13:08.23 | thiago | paoleela|w: define "die". Does it disappear? |
| 13:08.30 | *** join/#kde iblechbot (n=iblechbo@21.17-dial.augustakom.net) |
| 13:08.32 | paoleela|w | Just the question: Is there a way to restart kicker more elegantly? |
| 13:08.38 | thiago | paoleela|w: dcop kicker kicker restart |
| 13:08.44 | Jucato | dcop kicker kicker restart |
| 13:08.45 | thiago | but this only works if kicker is still running normally |
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| 13:08.59 | paoleela|w | thiago: On one screen it disappears. The other kicker is still there. |
| 13:09.17 | thiago | but if you restart it, it shows up again on the other screen |
| 13:09.18 | thiago | ? |
| 13:09.44 | paoleela|w | It's not always the kicker on the same screen, and very rare also both are killed. (killall kicker doesn't do a thing) |
| 13:10.13 | paoleela|w | With killall kicker && kicker &>/dev/null both kickers appear again here. |
| 13:10.50 | klerfayt | paoleela|w: http://bugs.kde.org/ |
| 13:10.57 | paoleela|w | I will try dcop kicker kicker restart for the case that one kicker is still alive. |
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| 13:12.23 | paoleela|w | klerfayt: Actually I'm a fast bugreporter, but about there are lots of bugreports about kicker, also kind of my case. |
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| 13:17.47 | iuso | hi. i'd like to have kwallet take care of my POP3 password in kmail. when kmail asked about using kwallet the first time i declined, and now it asks the password each time i start kmail without offering to use kwallet. where's the option for saving the password in kwallet hidden? |
| 13:18.38 | thiago | run the kwalletmanager and configure it to enable the wallet |
| 13:19.27 | iuso | it's enabled, i think |
| 13:19.41 | iuso | i enabled the wallet for another kmail account |
| 13:19.46 | iuso | and the wallet's open |
| 13:20.03 | thiago | if you tell KMail to save the password, what happens? |
| 13:20.24 | iuso | i'll check what happens when i restart kmail |
| 13:21.14 | iuso | it had saved it this time, good |
| 13:21.17 | iuso | thanks |
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| 13:21.47 | iuso | i must've missed saving it last time around |
| 13:23.14 | iuso | -> |
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| 13:27.38 | Jucato | quick question about reporting bugs/wishes: this app (basket) is available in Ubuntu's repos. but I installed a more recent version using a .deb package made for Ubuntu (from the basket website). what do I put in the Distribution Method in bugs.kde.org? |
| 13:29.53 | benJIman | If you're not sure just specify it in the bug description |
| 13:30.27 | Jucato | actually, it's a wishlist... which makes it all the more... um... unusual... |
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| 13:31.49 | Jucato | hm... bugs.kde.org is exceptionally slow today... at least with the reporting wizard... |
| 13:31.50 | paoleela|w | thiago: dcop kicker kicker restart just restarts kicker on one virtual desktop. On the others no kicker is visible. I rather use killall kicker && kicker &>/dev/null again, that works. |
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| 13:46.01 | paveq | hi |
| 13:46.28 | paveq | all my contol panel items seems to have ended up to lost and found section in the menu |
| 13:46.31 | paveq | quite funny |
| 13:46.42 | paveq | any ideas how to get them to control panel again? |
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| 13:51.19 | eliasp | hi all |
| 13:52.56 | thiago | paoleela|w: under normal circumstances, how many kickers are running? |
| 13:53.11 | thiago | paveq: what led to the issue? |
| 13:53.30 | eliasp | how do i configure kmilo?? does it currently only provide the Vaio/Thinkpad module or is there a way to use the "generic" component?? |
| 13:53.59 | paoleela|w | thiago: currently 2, one for each screen. |
| 13:54.00 | eliasp | i'm running a HP nx9420 and would like to assing shortcuts to the extra-keys |
| 13:54.41 | thiago | paoleela|w: that's why. |
| 13:54.46 | thiago | you're not running Xinerama mode |
| 13:55.06 | paoleela|w | thiago: No. |
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| 13:55.41 | paoleela|w | thiago: dcop can only restart running kicker? So I will use killall. |
| 13:56.16 | thiago | it can only talk to a kicker that is running |
| 13:56.27 | thiago | I didn't think it was possible to have more than one kicker running, though |
| 13:57.09 | aseigo | thiago: dual head (non-xinerama) |
| 13:57.30 | aseigo | thiago: we run one instance of kicker on each head |
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| 13:57.40 | aseigo | thiago: you can't have them running on the same head, that's true |
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| 14:05.21 | thiago | aseigo: do they take different DCOP names? |
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| 14:05.34 | thiago | it's still the same X11 display, right? |
| 14:05.34 | aseigo | thiago: yes |
| 14:05.46 | aseigo | right... |
| 14:06.01 | aseigo | they have their own dcop names, read different config files, etc |
| 14:06.08 | aseigo | basically try and stay out of each other's way |
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| 14:06.37 | x_link | Hi |
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| 14:06.53 | x_link | I just mounted amy second hdd, but when I rebooted it didn't show up. |
| 14:07.02 | x_link | I don't know how to auto-mount it. |
| 14:07.06 | x_link | Could somebody help me with this ? |
| 14:07.09 | *** join/#kde Cicciux (n=Cicciux@200.3.249.147) |
| 14:07.48 | icwiener | x_link: Insert a line for it in /etc/fstab |
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| 14:12.33 | x_link | icwiener: Which line ? |
| 14:12.44 | x_link | I know what you mean, I have done it before, but I don't remember. |
| 14:12.49 | x_link | Another guy helped me that time. |
| 14:12.51 | icwiener | x_link: like /dev/hdb1 /dir/to/mountpoint ext3 defaults 0 0 |
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| 14:13.03 | x_link | THis time I could do everything on my own, but I forgot how to auto-mount it. |
| 14:13.08 | x_link | Okey. |
| 14:13.15 | x_link | I will add that line icwiener. |
| 14:13.21 | icwiener | x_link: No! |
| 14:13.24 | annma | lol |
| 14:13.26 | x_link | ahh sorry |
| 14:13.28 | x_link | sorry |
| 14:13.32 | x_link | I didn't read properly. |
| 14:13.33 | icwiener | x_link: You have to modify it to your needs. |
| 14:13.34 | annma | x_link: change as required |
| 14:13.49 | annma | x_link: you need to know what you do |
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| 14:14.08 | annma | ask in your distro channel as this is no kde stuff anyway |
| 14:14.36 | x_link | Okey. |
| 14:14.38 | x_link | I will not ask here. |
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| 14:18.22 | NthDegree | has anyone ever used systrace on KDE :( |
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| 14:20.35 | thiago | "Systrace enforces system call policies for applications by constraining the application's access to the system." |
| 14:20.37 | thiago | is that it? |
| 14:21.27 | NthDegree | yep |
| 14:21.41 | NthDegree | it's like SELinux in many ways but it's easier to use |
| 14:22.20 | thiago | ok, so it intercepts system calls |
| 14:22.24 | thiago | sounds cool |
| 14:22.26 | NthDegree | but KDE has so many components and performs so many actions :( the policies need tweaking to work and they are so big |
| 14:22.40 | thiago | right |
| 14:23.00 | thiago | Systrace has to provide some high-level abstraction than system calls. It has to aggregate data and provide something similar to tasks. |
| 14:23.20 | thiago | there's no point in blocking all write(2) calls. You may want to block a network connection to a certain IP, though. |
| 14:24.20 | NthDegree | what you do is run it in learning mode and whatever system calls are made are added to the policy to be allowed |
| 14:24.35 | NthDegree | the only issue is that so many lock files have random names |
| 14:25.04 | NthDegree | and it records it as /tmp/dcop_gfjihgjhgjoihhdjoidhjdh8479.lock as opposed to /tmp/dcop_*.lock |
| 14:25.18 | NthDegree | so the policy needs to be changed which can be a PITA |
| 14:26.42 | NthDegree | I really hope all this is fixed for KDE 4 or i'll be in eternal hell :-( |
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| 14:27.17 | thiago | KDE will continue using random names |
| 14:27.21 | thiago | it will not change |
| 14:27.23 | thiago | this is not a bug |
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| 14:28.26 | NthDegree | not the random names, the amount of lock files and linking is almost unreal :| |
| 14:29.01 | thiago | I don't think so |
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| 14:40.50 | klerfayt | I love kde! woohoo! |
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| 14:55.37 | Mistress9 | .... |
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| 15:25.19 | BlackBsd | how can i add arbitrary ftp sites to the konqueror network tab? |
| 15:25.47 | Q-collective | network tab? |
| 15:25.53 | logixoul | Q-collective: left tab |
| 15:26.04 | BlackBsd | yes the left tab |
| 15:26.27 | BlackBsd | right now i have kde official FTP site under the FTP archives |
| 15:26.29 | Q-collective | I still don't get it |
| 15:26.32 | BlackBsd | i wanted to add some more |
| 15:26.37 | logixoul | Q-collective: F9 |
| 15:26.43 | Q-collective | the tab you see while being in the filemanager profile? |
| 15:27.01 | logixoul | Q-collective: no, one of the vertical tabs in the sidebar |
| 15:27.01 | Q-collective | yeah, that one |
| 15:27.19 | annma | type remote:/ in konq |
| 15:27.38 | logixoul | BlackBsd: open new browser tab and drag the old one to the "ftp archives" |
| 15:27.44 | annma | there's a wizard then |
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| 15:28.11 | annma | BlackBsd: type remote:/ in konq and ther'll be th ewizard |
| 15:28.13 | logixoul | annma's right |
| 15:28.17 | BlackBsd | logixol thanx that worked for me |
| 15:28.22 | logixoul | np |
| 15:28.23 | annma | yes i reviewed that doc recently |
| 15:28.37 | annma | a bit of hidden feature |
| 15:28.58 | logixoul | heh, i didn't realize there was a network sidebar until now =) |
| 15:29.08 | Q-collective | is there a complete list somewhere about all those nifty features you can put in the address bar? :) |
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| 15:29.28 | logixoul | they're called kioslaves |
| 15:29.30 | logixoul | lemme check |
| 15:29.40 | annma | yes |
| 15:29.56 | annma | there's a list in KHelpCenter |
| 15:30.09 | annma | but the doc for each one is hmmm scarse |
| 15:30.09 | BlackBsd | one other thing, has anyone been able to access https://www.franklin.edu/myFranklin with knoqueror |
| 15:30.22 | logixoul | i can't |
| 15:30.24 | BlackBsd | since kde 3.5 i have not been able to acess this site |
| 15:30.24 | annma | BlackBsd: that was already reported |
| 15:30.25 | *** join/#kde dRo_oPy (n=droopy@87.100.61.183) |
| 15:30.39 | annma | BlackBsd: look if a bug report has been issued |
| 15:30.56 | annma | and add that for you as well it doe snot work |
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| 15:34.44 | Roey | hey |
| 15:34.56 | logixoul | hey |
| 15:34.57 | Roey | what kind of things are NOT going to be included in KDE4 such that they WILL be considered for KDE5 ? |
| 15:34.58 | Roey | hey hey |
| 15:35.11 | logixoul | nobody knows |
| 15:35.32 | logixoul | why? |
| 15:35.45 | Q-collective | kde5? |
| 15:35.49 | logixoul | kde5. |
| 15:36.07 | Q-collective | well, Qt5 is not considered for kde4, that's for sure |
| 15:36.24 | logixoul | hah that's right |
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| 15:36.40 | Roey | ok |
| 15:36.42 | Roey | so that's one thing then |
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| 15:37.17 | Roey | I'm talking things that have been ruled out for kde4 |
| 15:37.28 | Roey | so that htey'll be up for consideration for the following version |
| 15:37.39 | Q-collective | there is nothing |
| 15:38.02 | logixoul | you mean really hard to do features that have been postponed to KDE 5? |
| 15:38.11 | logixoul | Roey |
| 15:39.38 | Q-collective | Roey: new features normally get included in subtrees, only radical new stuff might get postponed |
| 15:39.39 | logixoul | not even KDE4's functionality is known, so hard predictions for KDE 5 are impossible. people have suggested stuff tho. like 3d environment ala lookingglass |
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| 15:40.03 | Q-collective | but there is no such list of radical new features that doesn't get included into kde4 as of yet |
| 15:40.15 | logixoul | exactly. |
| 15:40.56 | logixoul | Roey: any special reason to ask or just curious? |
| 15:41.00 | Q-collective | besides, with the current speed of development, kde5 is due for 2009 or 2010 |
| 15:41.10 | Q-collective | no point in looking that far into the future |
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| 15:41.56 | logixoul | hey, merging with gnome is left over for version 5! j/k |
| 15:42.00 | Q-collective | [16:29:57] <annma> there's a list in KHelpCenter |
| 15:42.02 | Q-collective | where? |
| 15:42.06 | Q-collective | I can't find it |
| 15:42.20 | Roey | logixoul: none in particular |
| 15:42.21 | Q-collective | logixoul: ehe |
| 15:42.43 | logixoul | ok Roey |
| 15:42.53 | Roey | logixoul: and yes, I meant really hard things to do that have been definitely ruled out for kde4 |
| 15:43.09 | logixoul | ic |
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| 15:51.01 | Q-collective | and then the discussion died |
| 15:51.03 | *** join/#kde CAVEMAN (n=CAVEMAN@osiris.afpc.tamu.edu) |
| 15:51.14 | Q-collective | not much to discuss I guess |
| 15:52.33 | annma | Q-collective: i KHelpCenter look at Cointents |
| 15:52.36 | annma | Contents |
| 15:52.58 | annma | and there's an entry Kioslaves |
| 15:53.43 | annma | remote:/ is not listed however so the list is not complete |
| 15:54.20 | logixoul | fyi a complete list (i think) exists in konq->settings->config konq->previews |
| 15:55.58 | annma | ah yes, you're right |
| 15:56.22 | Q-collective | :) |
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| 15:56.49 | Q-collective | too bad that isn't documented |
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| 15:57.07 | annma | yeah |
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| 15:57.33 | logixoul | pity writing docs is so boring |
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| 15:57.44 | annma | i am writing a cod right now |
| 15:57.48 | logixoul | doc? |
| 15:57.50 | annma | doc |
| 15:57.52 | annma | yes |
| 15:57.55 | logixoul | nice. |
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| 15:58.01 | annma | ;) i hope i write better than that |
| 15:58.08 | logixoul | heh :) |
| 15:58.28 | tcpsyn | I've got a weird issue. I can't change my desktop background from my normal user account.. I update it, but the background doesn't change. If I enable xinerama, I can change the background, when I disable xinerama, I'm unable to change it again. |
| 15:58.32 | tcpsyn | Any ideas? |
| 15:58.41 | tcpsyn | .kde has the correct permissions |
| 16:00.09 | logixoul | ~/.kde/share/config/kdesktoprc contains the wallpaper config |
| 16:00.23 | logixoul | in the DesktopX section |
| 16:00.30 | logixoul | check what's written there |
| 16:00.37 | logixoul | then change in in kcontrol |
| 16:00.45 | logixoul | reload the file then |
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| 16:00.49 | logixoul | is the path changed? |
| 16:01.24 | logixoul | (X==number of desktop) |
| 16:01.34 | tcpsyn | Wallpaper=/usr/kde/3.5/share/wallpapers/default_blue.jpg |
| 16:01.42 | tcpsyn | thats what it says, but thats not the wallpaper its displaying |
| 16:02.09 | logixoul | killall kdesktop and start it again |
| 16:02.24 | logixoul | (from konsole so you see errors) |
| 16:02.30 | tcpsyn | no errors.. |
| 16:02.40 | tcpsyn | but same wallpaper |
| 16:03.00 | logixoul | and default_blue is what you've set in kcontrol right? |
| 16:03.04 | tcpsyn | It was a fedora box, I copied the home dir over to a gentoo box. |
| 16:03.08 | tcpsyn | default_blue, yeah |
| 16:03.17 | logixoul | ugh |
| 16:03.47 | logixoul | does kdesktop function ok otherwise? context menus, everything? |
| 16:03.58 | tcpsyn | yeah, everything else seems normal. |
| 16:04.07 | tcpsyn | it isn't a big deal.. just really strange |
| 16:04.30 | tcpsyn | especially when I noticed it works with xinerama enabled |
| 16:04.56 | logixoul | try kdesktop --x-root |
| 16:05.03 | logixoul | just in case |
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| 16:05.19 | tcpsyn | nope |
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| 16:07.08 | tcpsyn | what if I delete kdesktoprc? |
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| 16:07.18 | Niall_ | hi, I have a bug with my Panel. I have it set to autohide after a few seconds and reappear when the mouse is in the bottom-left corner, but sometimes it doesn't reappear. I use the scroll wheel on the background to switch desktops, then it behaves again, at least for a while. |
| 16:07.44 | tcpsyn | bingo |
| 16:07.56 | tcpsyn | Now it works |
| 16:08.02 | Niall_ | KDE 3.5.3, SimplyMEPIS 6.0, btw. |
| 16:08.31 | logixoul | tcpsyn: by deleting it? |
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| 16:08.42 | tcpsyn | deleting it fixed the issue |
| 16:08.49 | tcpsyn | it recreated itself and now I can change the backgrounds |
| 16:08.52 | logixoul | gotta remember that :) |
| 16:09.05 | tcpsyn | (I renamed it of course) |
| 16:09.23 | logixoul | tcpsyn: just curious, what's the diff with the generated file? |
| 16:09.35 | logixoul | with the old one |
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| 16:11.02 | logixoul | Niall_: if you don't have any windows open, does it consistently work? |
| 16:11.10 | logixoul | s/,// |
| 16:11.29 | tcpsyn | > Wallpaper=$HOME/Images/Backgrounds/waveform.jpg |
| 16:11.29 | tcpsyn | 79,91d19 |
| 16:11.37 | tcpsyn | that looks like the only difference |
| 16:11.50 | logixoul | :) ok |
| 16:11.51 | tcpsyn | It's got to be a bug with xinerama. |
| 16:12.05 | Niall_ | logixoul: hmmm, I don't often use it with no windows open :) so I'm not sure. |
| 16:12.20 | Niall_ | why? |
| 16:12.33 | logixoul | Niall_: just shooting in the dark. |
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| 16:13.34 | logixoul | so when you scroll thru desktops the problem stops happening for some time? |
| 16:13.47 | Niall_ | I read a similar problem on a Kubuntu support forum, but it wasn't resolved. |
| 16:13.49 | Niall_ | Yes. |
| 16:14.14 | Jucato | what problem? |
| 16:14.22 | logixoul | "Niall_ |
| 16:14.22 | logixoul | » |
| 16:14.22 | logixoul | hi, I have a bug with my Panel. I have it set to autohide after a few seconds and reappear when the mouse is in the bottom-left corner, but sometimes it doesn't reappear. I use the scroll wheel on the background to switch desktops, then it behaves again, at least for a while." |
| 16:15.12 | Jucato | hm... |
| 16:15.18 | Niall_ | Update - maybe it's getting worse, now it is only appearing for the few seconds before it autohides after switching desktops. |
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| 16:16.32 | Jucato | Niall_: you have to check if kicker suddenly decided to hide itself in a different position. sometimes it does that |
| 16:17.14 | Jucato | Alt+F2, type in "kcontrol" to check the Panel settings |
| 16:18.41 | Niall_ | The Configure Panel menu shows it in the right place. Moving the cursor all around the edge of the screen doesn't pop it out anywhere else. |
| 16:19.13 | Jucato | checked the Hiding settings? |
| 16:19.29 | Niall_ | yep |
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| 16:21.06 | Jucato | strange indeed... |
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| 16:22.52 | Niall_ | It's not really impairing the usability, it's easy to roll the scroll wheel back and forth quickly to pop the panel up by a desktop change, but it's a quirk I'd like to iron out before my Mac fanboy friend visits :) |
| 16:23.36 | logixoul | Niall_: if you don't mind spending an afternoon, create a new user and transfer your important config files (and mails, etc) to it so you can identify the faulty one. |
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| 16:25.06 | logixoul | try unchecking "show panel when switching desktops" |
| 16:25.42 | Niall_ | logixoul: the Kubuntu forum advice was to delete the KDE config files, I did that and restarted X, and the problem went away for a few days, but it came back. |
| 16:25.56 | logixoul | weird. |
| 16:26.24 | logixoul | dunno then, sorry. |
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| 16:26.37 | Niall_ | is there a terminal command to summon the panel? |
| 16:27.17 | Niall_ | actually never mind that. |
| 16:27.58 | Niall_ | logixoul , Jucato : thanks anyway, I'll go over and ask at #mepis |
| 16:28.09 | logixoul | k |
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| 16:51.24 | ereslibre | hi* |
| 16:52.27 | Q-collective | yoç ereslibre |
| 16:52.40 | ereslibre | ;) |
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| 16:53.12 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: hey |
| 16:53.18 | Jucato | hi kdeuser^ |
| 16:53.39 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: did u end up doing anything that day at ubuntu freshers ? |
| 16:53.56 | Jucato | I was already doing something before that day |
| 16:54.02 | kdeuser^ | what ? |
| 16:54.39 | Jucato | KDE Theming Guide |
| 16:55.14 | kdeuser^ | cool.. |
| 16:55.22 | kdeuser^ | oh with your virtual pal huh ? |
| 16:55.40 | kdeuser^ | with annma ? |
| 16:55.41 | Jucato | huh? |
| 16:55.59 | Jucato | annma's a KDE dev. not just my "virtual pal" |
| 16:56.07 | kdeuser^ | oh.. neat |
| 16:56.28 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: what about that day.. did you end up in any project ? |
| 16:56.36 | Jucato | nope |
| 16:56.40 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: and truly i was lost indeed there |
| 16:56.53 | Jucato | I'm not planning to join any major project soonish |
| 16:57.03 | kdeuser^ | heh |
| 16:57.14 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: then what news ? |
| 16:57.25 | Jucato | not much. busy weekend. didn't get to do much |
| 16:57.27 | Q-collective | Jucato: he isn't your virtual pal? He told me he likes you, but you don't like him? You meany :( |
| 16:57.43 | kdeuser^ | lol |
| 16:57.52 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: annma is a boy ? |
| 16:57.56 | Jucato | Q-collective: annma's a "she" |
| 16:58.08 | Q-collective | oh, right :p |
| 16:58.19 | kdeuser^ | right.. i knew annma is a girl |
| 16:58.42 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: that was funny :) |
| 16:58.48 | Jucato | :) |
| 16:59.17 | Q-collective | Jucato: well then, you're breaking the heart of a young woman! |
| 16:59.19 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: once ur done with this kde theme guide.. hope u will join me in for ur next project |
| 16:59.19 | Q-collective | tssk! |
| 16:59.33 | Jucato | Q-collective: you know that she's married, with kids, right? |
| 16:59.43 | mortici | Is there any reason why the main panel would be considered a window, not a docked object |
| 16:59.44 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: :( |
| 17:00.11 | Q-collective | Jucato: hey, this was just about the "virtual pal" part |
| 17:00.16 | Q-collective | what are you thinking? |
| 17:00.18 | Q-collective | :) |
| 17:00.21 | Jucato | Q-collective: I know :P |
| 17:00.23 | kdeuser^ | heh |
| 17:00.32 | Jucato | kdeuser^: maybe. no plans for anything currently |
| 17:00.35 | logixoul | mortici: it's techically both. are you having a problem? |
| 17:00.43 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: anything ? |
| 17:00.53 | mortici | logixoul, yes |
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| 17:01.03 | Jucato | kdeuser^: nothing on my mind currently |
| 17:01.05 | mortici | the other panels i create are fine |
| 17:01.08 | mortici | but the main one is not |
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| 17:01.09 | kdeuser^ | oh.. ok |
| 17:01.34 | Jucato | mortici: what do you mean by "not fine"? |
| 17:01.40 | logixoul | mortici: you mean it has a titlebar? |
| 17:01.46 | mortici | well i run beryl+kde |
| 17:01.56 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: annma told me there are lot of old unmaintained documentation.. any idea on one i could maintain ? |
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| 17:02.10 | Jucato | kdeuser^: kword |
| 17:02.20 | PhilRod | kdeuser^: anything you like :-) |
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| 17:02.36 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: i have never used kword.. may be i should start using |
| 17:02.36 | Jucato | PhilRod: hi! thanks again! :) |
| 17:02.42 | mortici | and there is an option for 3d world, where WINDOWS exist in 3d, DOCKs are not supposed to, so the other panels stay on the cube, but the main panel exists in the 3D world and its annoying to have it lift and be considered a window |
| 17:02.54 | PhilRod | kdeuser^: we like to recommend that people work on something they already use - that way you can spend time thinking about how to document the app, instead of trying to work out how it works |
| 17:02.58 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: i am a new guy.. so pretty nervous where to start |
| 17:03.02 | Jucato | kdeuser^: maybe. or you could try to check the documentation of an app you already use and like |
| 17:03.09 | mortici | cause then it affects all the other features |
| 17:03.11 | kdeuser^ | but i really want to help |
| 17:03.16 | Jucato | kdeuser^: work on something familiar to you |
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| 17:03.23 | mortici | is there a way to reset the panels? |
| 17:03.28 | PhilRod | kdeuser^: that's cool - we're always glad to have new people helping |
| 17:03.41 | Mitja | Can games be uninstalled without removing entire KDE? |
| 17:03.43 | logixoul | mortici: killall kicker and then kicker or what do you mean by reset? |
| 17:03.50 | logixoul | Mitja: yes |
| 17:03.51 | PhilRod | kdeuser^: is there a kde app that you use a lot? |
| 17:03.52 | mortici | like the settings and what not |
| 17:03.58 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: can u get me started on one.. then i will keep going on my own |
| 17:03.59 | PhilRod | Mitja: remove the kdegames package |
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| 17:04.17 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: ah.. thats a difficult question |
| 17:04.26 | Jucato | kdeuser^: think of an app you're familiar with, one you regularly use, one you like. you can start with that |
| 17:04.28 | Mitja | PhilRod it still wants to remove the whole kde |
| 17:04.37 | logixoul | Mitja: what's "it"? |
| 17:04.38 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: i use kghostview |
| 17:04.39 | PhilRod | Mitja: dunno. ask in #yourdistro perhaps |
| 17:04.44 | Mitja | logixoul apt |
| 17:05.02 | mortici | logixoul, i mean like reset all settings for kicker so that ANY changes i have made since the first login, get reset |
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| 17:05.13 | PhilRod | kdeuser^: ok, give me a second to look at the existing docs for that |
| 17:05.20 | kdeuser^ | sure.. |
| 17:05.25 | logixoul | mortici: try logging in as a new user. all settings will be default then. |
| 17:05.25 | PhilRod | mortici: rename ~/.kde/share/config/kickerrc |
| 17:05.37 | mortici | thank you PhilRod |
| 17:05.39 | logixoul | PhilRod: that wont be enough i thonk |
| 17:05.45 | logixoul | think* |
| 17:05.56 | logixoul | PhilRod: there's some external files referenced, like... |
| 17:06.21 | logixoul | kicker_menubarpanelrc |
| 17:06.51 | PhilRod | logixoul: ah, yes. They might only be loaded if kickerrc mentions them though. I'm not sure |
| 17:06.51 | logixoul | well, i mean every panel other than the main one has a conf file of its own |
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| 17:06.58 | logixoul | yep |
| 17:07.07 | mortici | wheres the main one? |
| 17:07.07 | logixoul | and it wont with a clean conf, you're right |
| 17:07.17 | logixoul | mortici: the one PhilRod mentioned |
| 17:07.35 | mortici | and what about the rc file for the main panel? |
| 17:07.59 | mortici | ok let me logout and try |
| 17:08.01 | mortici | brb |
| 17:08.03 | logixoul | mortici: i think there isn't one, the config of the main panel is in the same place as the global config |
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| 17:08.28 | damnshock_ | hi all |
| 17:09.37 | kdeuser^ | hey |
| 17:09.49 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: what about kpdf ? |
| 17:09.52 | PhilRod | kdeuser^: it looks like the kghostview docs are quite complete. Can you think of another app? |
| 17:10.01 | PhilRod | ah :-) |
| 17:10.13 | Jucato | um.. KPDF.... okular... |
| 17:10.14 | PhilRod | I expect there's something to be done on kpdf |
| 17:10.30 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: you give me an app that has obsolete documentation.. |
| 17:10.49 | Jucato | kdeuser^: like what we said, it works the other way around |
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| 17:11.11 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: i can`t think of anything.. all of a sudden |
| 17:11.26 | kdeuser^ | i read a lot of pdf`s so i said kpdf and kghostview |
| 17:11.43 | kdeuser^ | i use amarok and then kopete thats all |
| 17:11.46 | PhilRod | let me take a look at kpdf docs |
| 17:11.51 | Jucato | ok |
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| 17:11.52 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: ok.. |
| 17:12.24 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: have u finished ur theme guide ? |
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| 17:12.31 | Jucato | yep |
| 17:12.54 | kdeuser^ | what is it about.. how to make new themes or how to use install etc ? |
| 17:12.56 | logixoul | can i set per-panel backgrounds? |
| 17:13.47 | Jucato | kdeuser^: how to install |
| 17:13.53 | kdeuser^ | Oh..ok |
| 17:14.09 | Jucato | logixoul: afaik, no. I'm not sure when it comes to dual heads/monitors, though |
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| 17:14.18 | logixoul | k thanks |
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| 17:14.56 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: do i have to include screenshots ? |
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| 17:15.21 | Jucato | it depends on the doc. I'm not really the person to ask :) |
| 17:15.43 | kdeuser^ | :) |
| 17:15.53 | Jucato | KDE has some requirements with regards to screenshots, though |
| 17:16.09 | PhilRod | they're not very hard - just default style and windeco |
| 17:16.13 | PhilRod | and colour scheme |
| 17:16.26 | kdeuser^ | oh.. u can guide me ofcourse |
| 17:16.34 | PhilRod | kdeuser^: ok, looking at the kpdf doc, it might be nice to have a section in there about the side panel |
| 17:16.46 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: i am on it |
| 17:16.50 | Jucato | PhilRod: 72 dpi too |
| 17:16.53 | PhilRod | since that does searching, etc |
| 17:17.11 | PhilRod | Jucato: oh yeah, that too, although I don't really understand that |
| 17:17.23 | PhilRod | (anything even vaguely graphics-y is beyond me) |
| 17:17.28 | Jucato | me either... :) |
| 17:17.36 | Jucato | er.. neither |
| 17:18.00 | kdeuser^ | so.. |
| 17:18.04 | PhilRod | ah, good to see you deciding to speak British English :-) |
| 17:18.33 | kdeuser^ | heh |
| 17:18.34 | Jucato | heh |
| 17:18.54 | Jucato | hm... something peculiar about KPDF... how does its bookmarking work? |
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| 17:19.53 | PhilRod | oh, does it have bookmarking? that's not described in the handbook either |
| 17:20.15 | logixoul | Jucato: bookmarked pages have a paperclip in the thumbbar |
| 17:20.16 | kdeuser^ | i will do that also |
| 17:20.29 | Jucato | PhilRod: barely... you can right-click on a page to add a bookmark |
| 17:20.33 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: so how do i go about it ? |
| 17:20.42 | aseigo | Jucato: look in `kde-config --localprefix`/share/apps/kpdf |
| 17:20.44 | Jucato | logixoul: how do you jump to a bookmark aisde from the sidepanel? |
| 17:20.48 | aseigo | Jucato: there's an xml file for each pdf |
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| 17:21.16 | PhilRod | kdeuser^: you can write in plain text and send it along to kde-doc-english@kde.org or me (phil@kde.org) |
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| 17:21.28 | logixoul | Jucato: i've been wondering the same |
| 17:21.34 | kdeuser^ | i prefer sending it to u.. |
| 17:21.37 | aeromix | hi.. I forgot pass to kdewallet... how can I restore it?? |
| 17:21.41 | kdeuser^ | so u can correct mistake and all |
| 17:21.47 | PhilRod | kdeuser^: we'll add the markup and integrate it into the manual |
| 17:21.51 | PhilRod | ok, that's fine :-) |
| 17:21.53 | kdeuser^ | ok.. |
| 17:22.05 | kdeuser^ | how much do i have to write |
| 17:22.05 | aeromix | !kdewallet |
| 17:22.11 | aeromix | hm |
| 17:22.34 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: so i write about the sidebar and bookmarks right ? |
| 17:22.46 | PhilRod | kdeuser^: yes, that would be cool |
| 17:22.54 | logixoul | aeromix: i suppose you'd need to bruteforce it which could take long. dunno how tho. |
| 17:23.00 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: oh..ok :-) |
| 17:23.01 | Jucato | aseigo: err... sorry... but what do those xml files do? |
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| 17:23.17 | PhilRod | kdeuser^: feel free to send me small sections, as you write them, if you want |
| 17:23.20 | aseigo | Jucato: there's one per pdf. they keep track of where you were last reading, bookmarks, etc |
| 17:23.24 | aeromix | logixoul: does reinstall help? |
| 17:23.27 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: oh..ok |
| 17:23.42 | logixoul | aeromix: no |
| 17:23.44 | Jucato | aseigo: but how do you "jump" to a bookmark? aside from the side panel? |
| 17:23.48 | kdeuser^ | :) thanks |
| 17:23.54 | aeromix | logixoul: that's a problem... |
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| 17:24.13 | Jucato | good luck kdeuser^! :) |
| 17:24.23 | aseigo | Jucato: ah, no idea. =P |
| 17:24.24 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: thanks buddy.. |
| 17:24.39 | Jucato | aseigo: what? you don't know? *gasps* :P |
| 17:24.53 | aseigo | Jucato: hehe.. i don't think there is a way. |
| 17:24.58 | aseigo | PhilRod: yo dude =) |
| 17:25.05 | Jucato | I'm presuming okular has a better bookmark handling feature? :) |
| 17:25.07 | PhilRod | hiya aseigo - how's it going? |
| 17:25.17 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: though this is my first so.. bear the mistakes. |
| 17:25.37 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: u a dev for kde ? |
| 17:25.45 | Jucato | kdeuser^: yep he is :) |
| 17:25.49 | aseigo | PhilRod: not bad thanks. sleeping schedule is almost back to local time. getting lots done today |
| 17:25.50 | kdeuser^ | cool ! |
| 17:26.09 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: what app does he develop |
| 17:26.21 | Jucato | kdeuser^: http://people.kde.nl/philip.html |
| 17:26.44 | Jucato | PhilRod: I could never really "understand" that picture of yours :) |
| 17:27.08 | kdeuser^ | kde netherlands ? |
| 17:27.22 | logixoul | kdeuser^: they run "People Behind KDE" |
| 17:27.25 | Jucato | kdeuser^: just the server |
| 17:27.33 | kdeuser^ | Oh..ok |
| 17:28.26 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: u know lots man.. i need to learn a lot |
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| 17:28.59 | Jucato | kdeuser^: I've been using Linux/KDE/Kubuntu for almost a year now |
| 17:29.11 | PhilRod | Jucato: it's a picture of me juggling, which is why it's all blurred |
| 17:29.27 | Jucato | PhilRod: oooh so that's what it was :) |
| 17:29.28 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: i have been using Linux for 1 and a half years now.. |
| 17:29.34 | logixoul | Jucato: only?! hah. |
| 17:29.36 | PhilRod | Jucato: you can find clearer pictures of me about the place, if you're so inclined (GIYF) |
| 17:29.39 | logixoul | :) |
| 17:29.53 | Jucato | um.. GIYF? |
| 17:29.57 | Jucato | logixoul: yes. only. |
| 17:29.59 | PhilRod | google is your friend |
| 17:30.03 | Jucato | lol :) |
| 17:30.06 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: though i began with RH9 |
| 17:30.22 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: GIYF ? |
| 17:30.27 | Jucato | logixoul: my 1st Linux b-day is on January 1 2007 |
| 17:30.51 | wolsni | you installed linux on new year's? |
| 17:30.55 | wolsni | sounds pretty exciting |
| 17:30.58 | logixoul | Jucato: my second is on May 8 2007 =) |
| 17:31.06 | Jucato | yeah. while there were fireworks outside :) |
| 17:31.13 | logixoul | Jucato: tho i still haven't gotten involved... |
| 17:31.38 | PhilRod | logixoul: bug triage counts as getting involved :-) |
| 17:31.45 | wolsni | hm, i don't remember what day i started using linux |
| 17:31.46 | logixoul | PhilRod: oh, right :) |
| 17:31.56 | Jucato | heh |
| 17:31.59 | PhilRod | yow, I feel old now, I can't remember when I first installed linux |
| 17:32.00 | Jucato | I've done that too :) |
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| 17:32.25 | wolsni | it was definitely sometime before september in 2004 though |
| 17:32.48 | Jucato | PhilRod: this should give you a clue: "I installed SuSE Linux 6.3 back in the last millennium when the dot-com boom was on..." :P |
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| 17:33.23 | Jucato | using Linux was my "new year's resolution" |
| 17:33.26 | PhilRod | Jucato: yeah, i think that's correct, although the SuSE version might be wrong. And I think I dabbled with some other things before that |
| 17:33.41 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: nice resolution |
| 17:33.42 | Jucato | but I was "researching" about Linux for around 2 months before that first install |
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| 17:35.24 | lavanyacv | k |
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| 17:37.05 | pavi | hi all |
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| 17:38.03 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: i the sidebar i need to talk about searching and thumbnails right? anything else ? |
| 17:38.08 | kdeuser^ | i = in |
| 17:38.17 | PhilRod | how to show/hide it |
| 17:38.29 | Jucato | (Ctrl+L, btw) |
| 17:38.57 | kdeuser^ | Ok. |
| 17:39.01 | PhilRod | can't think of anything else |
| 17:39.03 | logixoul | ha, i never thought i could hide it. nice! |
| 17:39.48 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: there is one contents tab above the thumbnails tab its disabled what about that ? |
| 17:41.17 | wolsni | kdeuser^: some pdfs do have tables of contents, like this one: http://www.basicmicro.com/downloads/docs/mbasic.pdf |
| 17:41.46 | Jucato | kdeuser^: the contents tab is disabled if the PDF doesn't have a table of contents |
| 17:41.50 | kdeuser^ | wolsni: ok.. |
| 17:42.19 | kdeuser^ | anything else that needs to documented in the sidebar |
| 17:43.12 | kdeuser^ | Fine.. |
| 17:43.22 | kdeuser^ | bye guys. need to catch on my sleep |
| 17:43.30 | kdeuser^ | its almost midnight |
| 17:43.32 | kdeuser^ | Jucato: bye |
| 17:43.36 | kdeuser^ | PhilRod: bye.. |
| 17:43.41 | Jucato | bye kdeuser^ |
| 17:43.42 | Jucato | and good luck |
| 17:43.49 | kdeuser^ | thanks.. |
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| 17:52.03 | icwiener_ | Jucato: Content question. ;) |
| 17:52.17 | Jucato | icwiener_: fire away |
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| 17:52.31 | icwiener_ | Jucato: Have you deKorator installed an can look for a button label? |
| 17:53.05 | Jucato | I have deKo installed |
| 17:53.19 | icwiener_ | Jucato: Click on "Install New Theme" and locate your deKorator theme archive. |
| 17:53.37 | icwiener_ | Jucato: Has that button dots (...)? |
| 17:53.54 | Jucato | the Install New Theme button? |
| 17:53.59 | icwiener_ | Yes. |
| 17:54.11 | Jucato | no it doesn't |
| 17:54.20 | icwiener_ | Ok, thx. :) |
| 17:54.23 | Jucato | none of the 3 buttons have (...) |
| 17:54.27 | Jucato | whew! |
| 17:54.32 | Jucato | you had me a bit worried there :P |
| 17:54.50 | icwiener_ | Did I? |
| 17:54.54 | icwiener_ | Why worried? |
| 17:55.11 | Jucato | I'm just a bit... feisty :P |
| 17:55.14 | Jucato | or edgy |
| 17:55.44 | icwiener_ | Jucato: Don't worry. |
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| 17:56.41 | icwiener_ | Jucato: And the "Set Theme Path's" button? Are there dots? :) |
| 17:57.08 | icwiener_ | Jucato: And is it really "Path's"? |
| 17:57.45 | Jucato | no buttons, really Path's. at least on deKorator 0.2 |
| 17:57.46 | logixoul | icwiener_: you're writing docs for deko? |
| 17:57.49 | Jucato | (don't have 0.3) |
| 17:58.25 | icwiener_ | logixoul: No, just translating (and proofreading a bit) Jucato's doc. |
| 17:58.47 | logixoul | Jucato: you're documenting deko? |
| 17:58.51 | icwiener_ | Jucato: No buttons? You mean "buttons" like in "dots" ;) |
| 17:59.00 | PhilRod | "Path's" with that apostrophe is probably incorrect grammar. What's the context? |
| 17:59.21 | logixoul | yep, in this context it should be "Paths" |
| 17:59.33 | Jucato | logixoul: er.. I meant, no (...) in the buttons |
| 17:59.38 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: "Once the theme has been added, select the theme you want to use and click on <guibutton>Set Theme Path's</guibutton>." |
| 17:59.39 | Jucato | let me get a quick screenshot |
| 17:59.42 | logixoul | Jucato: wrong person |
| 17:59.57 | Jucato | er... |
| 18:00.03 | Jucato | icwiener_: er.. I meant, no (...) in the buttons |
| 18:00.14 | icwiener_ | Jucato: That's all not KDE compliant, I think :( |
| 18:00.48 | icwiener_ | But deKorator is some kind of external program, right? |
| 18:01.02 | logixoul | icwiener_: i talked to moty about these little grammar glitches and he said he was just waiting to be obsoleted by bitwit's solution |
| 18:01.08 | PhilRod | dinner, bbiab |
| 18:01.11 | Jucato | icwiener_: yes. I did mention it there. I mentioned that IceWM is the pixmap-based windeco that KDE ships |
| 18:01.16 | mortici | is there any reason why my windows go BEHIND the main panel? |
| 18:01.43 | logixoul | mortici: well they always do. you don't want your panel hidden, do you? |
| 18:01.56 | mortici | i want the to snap to the top of the panel |
| 18:02.04 | icwiener_ | logixoul: Jucato: Ok, then I will overread those litte itches. :) |
| 18:02.33 | mortici | err i want the windows to snap to the edge of the panel like they do to my created top panel |
| 18:02.33 | logixoul | k |
| 18:03.00 | logixoul | mortici: are you saying your windows are _spawned_ in a place where they're not fully visible? |
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| 18:03.05 | mortici | no |
| 18:03.16 | mortici | http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/3189/snapshot2qt9.png |
| 18:03.18 | mortici | like that |
| 18:03.22 | mortici | thats whats happening |
| 18:03.37 | mortici | i want them to snap, or stop at the edge of the panel |
| 18:04.08 | logixoul | mortici: kcontrol->desktop->window behavior->moving->snap zones |
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| 18:04.52 | underzsod | THE BEST WAREZ SITE IN THE PLANET! UPLOADING BATTLE BEGAN 2DAY,3 WINNERS TAKE ONE MONTH RAPIDSHARE PREMIUM! ONLY AT--> WWW.UNDERZSOFT.COM |
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| 18:05.09 | logixoul | o.O |
| 18:05.20 | Jucato | icwiener_: http://jucato.org/stuff/windeco3.png |
| 18:05.21 | mortici | lol |
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| 18:05.56 | mortici | logixoul, that does nothing |
| 18:05.58 | Jucato | icwiener_: I'm not really sure if 0.3 fixes those |
| 18:06.07 | logixoul | mortici: what are your settings there? |
| 18:06.15 | mortici | 10 pixels |
| 18:06.29 | Jucato | icwiener_: I only included it in the doc, even if deKorator is not in KDE by default, because it's one of the most FAQ around |
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| 18:06.34 | icwiener_ | Please grant me the permisson to punch peoples face over standard tcp/ip... |
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| 18:07.04 | logixoul | mortici: and the window doesn't snap when you move it to <=10px from the panel? |
| 18:07.04 | mortici | nope |
| 18:07.15 | logixoul | mortici: how are you moving the window? |
| 18:07.20 | mortici | ok it does snap |
| 18:07.21 | mortici | nm |
| 18:07.23 | mortici | BUT |
| 18:07.29 | mortici | it still goes behind it |
| 18:07.30 | icwiener_ | Jucato: Yes, that's fine with me. I just asked because it sounded strange and I wanted to know if I there is something to fix. :) |
| 18:07.37 | mortici | if i do the same to my top bar |
| 18:07.43 | mortici | it stops it doesn't go behind it |
| 18:07.49 | logixoul | mortici: what's the desired effect? |
| 18:07.55 | Jucato | icwiener_: I'll try to look for a dekorator 0.3 package for Ubuntu and try to install it to check |
| 18:08.00 | logixoul | mortici: describe it in detail. |
| 18:08.00 | mortici | to not go behind it at all |
| 18:08.26 | logixoul | mortici: you want to make sure windows never go behind panels? impossible. |
| 18:08.45 | icwiener_ | Jucato: thx |
| 18:08.47 | mortici | .... |
| 18:08.52 | mortici | ok then :) |
| 18:08.54 | logixoul | mortici: but why would you wanna do that? |
| 18:09.27 | mortici | nm |
| 18:09.32 | logixoul | mortici: btw what's the red line under "else im sure" in the screenshot? |
| 18:09.34 | mortici | ill figure something else out :) |
| 18:10.12 | mortici | oh thats where i stopped, or minimized the window or went out of focus |
| 18:10.13 | mortici | for x chat |
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| 18:10.20 | logixoul | and the line's added automatically? |
| 18:10.49 | logixoul | cool. |
| 18:10.54 | mortici | yep |
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| 18:13.51 | logixoul | mortici: dude, you're actually using beryl! |
| 18:14.00 | logixoul | mortici: of course the kwin settings ain't gonna work. |
| 18:14.12 | logixoul | mortici: only #beryl people can help you with that |
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| 18:17.00 | mortici | logixoul, lol im trying over there as well |
| 18:17.01 | mortici | lol |
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| 18:21.12 | logixoul | /name test test |
| 18:21.16 | logixoul | sorry |
| 18:21.22 | Jucato | :) |
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| 18:33.34 | Jucato | annma, PhilRod, icwiener_: good night! |
| 18:33.45 | Jucato | icwiener_: couldn't find a .deb for deKo 0.3 :( |
| 18:34.03 | Jucato | I'll try again when I wake up |
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| 18:34.29 | icwiener_ | Jucato: g'night |
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| 18:44.03 | c-101 | Hi there |
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| 18:51.56 | Ace2016 | Hi all |
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| 18:55.51 | icwiener_ | annma: more markup done for the userguide_customization :) |
| 18:56.02 | annma | thanks icwiener_ :) |
| 18:56.05 | icwiener_ | annma: Is there a way to test the docbook? |
| 18:56.20 | icwiener_ | annma: meinproc should do that, right? |
| 18:56.26 | annma | yes |
| 18:56.31 | icwiener_ | nice... |
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| 18:57.20 | pinotree | icwiener_: meinproc --check index.docbook |
| 18:57.32 | annma | ah yes, thanks pinotree |
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| 18:57.34 | icwiener_ | pinotree: thx |
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| 19:02.32 | icwiener_ | oops! |
| 19:02.39 | icwiener_ | "Validation failed: no DTD found" |
| 19:03.02 | icwiener_ | I guess the DTD is in the main page of the userguide. |
| 19:03.56 | PhilRod | what command did you run? It should find the dtd provided kde is installed and set up correctly |
| 19:04.18 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: meinproc --check customizing-desktop.docbook |
| 19:04.57 | icwiener_ | Ah, do I have to run it with the index.docbook? |
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| 19:05.04 | PhilRod | yes |
| 19:05.48 | icwiener_ | Huh, great. It reported me the thing I was worried about. :D |
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| 19:06.19 | PhilRod | what was that? |
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| 19:06.34 | annma | how can I show yakuake? |
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| 19:06.52 | icwiener_ | annma: F12? |
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| 19:07.26 | annma | icwiener_: it hided before I could see it |
| 19:07.29 | annma | thanks |
| 19:07.31 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: before: <filename><replaceable>$<envar>KDEHOME</envar>/share/apps/kwin/icewm-themes</replaceable></filename> |
| 19:07.52 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: after: <filename>$<envar>KDEHOME</envar><replaceable>/share/apps/kwin/icewm-themes</replaceable></filename> |
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| 19:08.05 | PhilRod | no need for replaceable there |
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| 19:10.09 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: Ok. |
| 19:10.27 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: Just read the chapter in Docbook Guide. |
| 19:10.55 | PhilRod | cool :-) |
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| 19:11.14 | icwiener_ | annma: No need for <replaceable> here. :) |
| 19:11.29 | annma | I thought I copied from manual |
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| 19:11.42 | annma | ;) |
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| 19:12.07 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: If I understood that right, it's only needed when there I write <replaceable>/path/to/dir</replaceable>, right? |
| 19:12.15 | PhilRod | that's right |
| 19:12.30 | PhilRod | I'll be back in fifteen minutes, if you have any more questions |
| 19:12.34 | icwiener_ | and it builds. :) |
| 19:12.41 | icwiener_ | parses... |
| 19:12.45 | icwiener_ | or whatever. :) |
| 19:12.53 | annma | ah yes, get it as well |
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| 19:14.34 | icwiener_ | annma: I set you on CC again for trunk commit, ok? |
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| 19:14.53 | annma | icwiener_: as you want, ican get it with svn up |
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| 19:15.11 | annma | you have my 100% APPROVAL |
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| 19:15.41 | icwiener_ | annma: but that way you get the diff per mail. ;) |
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| 19:15.50 | annma | ;) |
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| 19:19.20 | xushi | mm, i think kde should make a google.com/konqueror/ and also get some money from the search on konq, as does mozilla with FF =) |
| 19:19.50 | logixoul | xushi: no way in hell |
| 19:20.04 | logixoul | hmm wait |
| 19:20.08 | logixoul | you're right |
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| 19:20.57 | logixoul | only KDE e.V. is a non-profit - it has no right to do that |
| 19:20.59 | xushi | i bet you with 10% of that money and some skills, the project would shoot up more than the rate it's doing now |
| 19:21.09 | xushi | hmm, good point |
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| 19:21.21 | logixoul | bbl |
| 19:21.47 | c-101 | well... that KDE e.V. is non-profit does not mean it cannot get money |
| 19:21.57 | c-101 | it only implies that it must spend all of the incomes |
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| 19:21.58 | c-101 | :) |
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| 19:22.33 | icwiener_ | annma: Object to something? |
| 19:22.33 | xushi | it could take the income, and put it back into the project by giving 'prises' to certain tasks, wishlists, and requests programmers complete |
| 19:23.19 | annma | icwiener_: no, excellent, thanks |
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| 19:23.38 | icwiener_ | annma: Ok, then I put it ti stable, too. |
| 19:23.54 | annma | yes, thanks icwiener_ |
| 19:24.00 | icwiener_ | np |
| 19:26.05 | annma | it's the best way to do it, having a reviewer |
| 19:26.26 | annma | when you write it or mark it you see only what you want to see after a while |
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| 19:27.30 | icwiener_ | annma: Yes. In the german team we try to have every translated document proofread by another person. Due to the lack of manpower it's not possible every time though. |
| 19:27.50 | annma | yes |
| 19:28.19 | annma | probably i'll translate it to French in fact now that i know it |
| 19:28.24 | icwiener_ | annma: But, for the englich docs there should be many proofreade, the translators. :) |
| 19:28.30 | annma | the fr translators seem asleep |
| 19:28.39 | annma | icwiener_: some do it |
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| 19:28.55 | icwiener_ | annma: Yes. |
| 19:29.13 | annma | others don't speak English well enough to be confident I suppose |
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| 19:29.37 | icwiener_ | annma: It's a good chance since as a translator one have to read the original anyway. |
| 19:29.52 | icwiener_ | Could be a reason. |
| 19:29.56 | annma | yes |
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| 19:42.52 | PhilRod | icwiener_: well, since you said "parse", some jargon for you: a document can be parsed (turned into a tree in the processing program's internal representation) if it's well-formed, ie all the tags match, all the entities are defined, etc. |
| 19:43.44 | PhilRod | a document is "valid" if that tree fits the rules set down by the DTD (eg, in docbook, a <sect1> must have a <title> and some content) |
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| 19:44.01 | PhilRod | but you don't really need to know that, it's just some random background :-) |
| 19:44.14 | PhilRod | _root: irc'ing as root, bad, yada yada yada |
| 19:44.58 | logixoul | PhilRod: hmm, how do you know he's logged as root? |
| 19:45.04 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: So docbooks are parsed, not built? |
| 19:46.02 | PhilRod | icwiener_: when you run meinproc, the doc is parsed, then validated, then transformed using XSLT |
| 19:46.29 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: Ah, ok. |
| 19:46.31 | PhilRod | XSLT is cool, but the people who wrote it went XML-crazy and thought it was a good idea to have a programming language that you write in XML |
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| 19:46.42 | icwiener_ | hehe |
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| 19:47.02 | visik7 | hi |
| 19:47.31 | logixoul | PhilRod: there are actually several XML-based turing complete languages :) |
| 19:47.40 | visik7 | how can I run an app reduced to icon ? if I put a basket .desktop file into Autostart it's executed not just in the systray but also onto the desktop |
| 19:47.54 | qupada | 'XML' and 'bad idea' are pretty much synonyms if you ask me |
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| 19:48.35 | PhilRod | qupada: it has its uses, but it clearly has an "everything should be XML, I tell you! Everything!" effect on some people |
| 19:48.54 | logixoul | visik7: instead use the following command line (basket-specific): basket --start-hidden |
| 19:48.56 | PhilRod | logixoul: yargh, nasty |
| 19:49.04 | logixoul | visik7: (in the .desktop file) |
| 19:49.09 | logixoul | PhilRod :) |
| 19:49.15 | visik7 | basket: Unknown option '--start-hidden'. |
| 19:49.27 | gurumeditationer | Is there anyone who works on/with the kdegames package here? |
| 19:49.29 | logixoul | visik7: which version? |
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| 19:49.48 | visik7 | of basket ? |
| 19:49.50 | visik7 | 0.5.0 |
| 19:49.53 | logixoul | visik7: update to 0.6.0 |
| 19:49.59 | visik7 | :( |
| 19:50.17 | PhilRod | seriously, who thought <xsl:choose><xsl:when test="$x==0">...</xsl:when><xsl:otherwise>...</xsl:otherwise></xsl:choose> was a sensible and readable way to write an if/else block? |
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| 19:50.53 | logixoul | visik7: some hacks are possible, but honestly, it's not worth it. just update. |
| 19:51.26 | visik7 | fortunatly there is 0.6.0 available in feisty |
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| 19:52.43 | icwiener_ | gurumeditationer: If it's specific, try #kdegames |
| 19:52.57 | gurumeditationer | I didn't realise there was a #kdegames, thanks |
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| 19:53.43 | Half-Left | Yo! |
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| 19:57.32 | Half-Left | Renze: you still love me? :p |
| 19:58.07 | qupada | ehwtf? |
| 19:59.07 | Half-Left | Sho_: You still love me? |
| 20:00.18 | Half-Left | I said my daily I love KDE 50 times |
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| 20:03.57 | karsten | Gripe: Running a maximize-vertical on a terminal window does maximize the window vertically, but leaves a fractional-height line at teh bottom of the screen. If I adjust hight manually, naturally, I'm no longer "maximized" and restoring prior terminal size doesn't work because the size is lost. |
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| 20:04.18 | karsten | Any way to force text terms to resize to nearest full column count less than actuall full screen height? |
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| 20:04.33 | tzanger | quick question -- I have a laptop with both a touchpad and a BT mouse. The touchpad I'd like to have with pointer acceleration of about 3.0x but the BT moues is *way* too fast at that setting; 1.5x is more suited for it. Is there any way I can set pointer accelration per device? |
| 20:04.43 | MinceR | karsten: terminal windows are usually fixed to integer numbers of character cells |
| 20:05.00 | MinceR | which normally limits available sizes |
| 20:05.01 | karsten | MinceR: xterm. Not. KDE versum number mumble on RHEL4. |
| 20:05.17 | MinceR | though some wm-s force them to full screen anyway :) |
| 20:05.17 | logixoul | PhilRod: for comparison, in XML Script the same fragment would read <_if test="x==0" >...<else>...</else></_if> |
| 20:05.23 | logixoul | PhilRod: (i think) |
| 20:05.41 | karsten | MinceR: wmaker gets it right. KDE is close. |
| 20:05.41 | PhilRod | tzanger: might be possible to set it at the xorg.conf level. Perhaps try asking in #xorg |
| 20:05.53 | karsten | KDE version 3.3. |
| 20:05.56 | tzanger | will do, thanks PhilRod |
| 20:06.00 | PhilRod | logixoul: still unpleasant, but not as bad as XSLT |
| 20:06.21 | logixoul | PhilRod: yup |
| 20:07.26 | aseigo | tzanger: i believe you can do that by defining separate input entries in your xorg |
| 20:07.28 | madclicker | hi, is there a way to save a text file kedit that notepad will open in proper format? |
| 20:07.44 | tzanger | aseigo: ok, checking |
| 20:07.59 | karsten | MinceR: Curious. I changed my desktop widget set and it appears I'm now getting integer maximization. |
| 20:08.15 | Sho_ | karsten: Konsole will just not use the fractional-height line at the bottom |
| 20:08.27 | aseigo | madclicker: you mean with windows line endings as opposed to unix ones? |
| 20:08.35 | tzanger | it seems to be rolling everything into /dev/mouse, I'll have to see if I can split them out nicely |
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| 20:09.13 | aseigo | madclicker: if so you need to use kwrite for that instead. under Tools -> End of Line -> <pick one> |
| 20:09.30 | mariux | is there a keyboard shortcut to focus the filtertextbox in konq? |
| 20:09.35 | Half-Left | aseigo: What is your view on the Oxygen icons? |
| 20:10.03 | aseigo | karsten: i think that would violate most people's concept of "full screen" (or "maximize") |
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| 20:10.34 | aseigo | karsten: another interesting case of "if you used UNIX for 15 years, this is what you'd expect" versus "what a human who hasn't been corrupted by 15 years of UNIX experience would expect" ;) |
| 20:10.44 | aseigo | Half-Left: love 'em. why? |
| 20:10.47 | Sho_ | aseigo: Which unfortunately doesn't keep the GTK2 version of Emacs from doing what karsten wants ;) |
| 20:10.59 | karsten | Sho_: Konsole is annoying. |
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| 20:11.07 | aseigo | Sho_: it's emacs. 'nuff said ;) |
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| 20:11.36 | karsten | aseigo: s/15 years/27 years/ |
| 20:11.38 | Half-Left | aseigo: Just wanted to know :-) |
| 20:11.38 | madclicker | aseigo, thank you |
| 20:11.46 | chovy | is there a better pdf viewer than kghostview? |
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| 20:11.49 | mariux | aseigo: do you know why there is a "focus addressfield" and "focus search field" but no "focus filter field" in konq? |
| 20:11.54 | mariux | chovy: kpdf |
| 20:12.08 | Half-Left | aseigo: you should see my Kgoldrunner icon in there soon I hope :-) |
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| 20:12.14 | logixoul | mariux: kpdf supports just pdf, unlike kghostview |
| 20:12.16 | aseigo | karsten: either way, you're beyond saving now ;) (not that i can say much different. i'm constantly having to explain why i don't use kdevelop after showing it in presentations ;) |
| 20:12.24 | aseigo | Half-Left: cool =) |
| 20:12.25 | mariux | logixoul: he asked for pdf |
| 20:12.31 | mariux | and i've used it with ps aswell |
| 20:12.38 | karsten | aseigo: Seems to be sorted at present. My expectation is "use the most vertical real-estate in a way that maximizes utility". Just a nice wmaker touch that it Just Works. |
| 20:12.41 | logixoul | mariux: you're right |
| 20:12.48 | karsten | aseigo: Heh. |
| 20:12.50 | aseigo | mariux: nope. probably just a completeness issue |
| 20:12.50 | rindolf | Hi all! My KDE colors keep getting reverted in Mandriva 2007. More details are here: http://lists.gllug.org.uk/pipermail/gllug/2006-December/064342.html . Can anyone help? |
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| 20:13.15 | aseigo | karsten: i just explain that i'm so used to console based development that it's an "old dog / new tricks" problem for me ;) |
| 20:13.39 | PhilRod | aseigo: heck, I've been using linux/unix for just 6 years, and I keep throwing emacs keyboard shortcuts everywhere |
| 20:13.42 | karsten | aseigo: I'm mostly pretty impressed with KDE. Window cycling is the other behavior that's sort of annoying. Try WindowMaker's bit, it's actually very much like Mac OS X IIRC. You can directly select the window from the pop-up windowlist that turns up. |
| 20:13.55 | aseigo | PhilRod: you're special. that's why we love you. |
| 20:14.04 | mariux | karsten: you can that in kwin aswell?! |
| 20:14.09 | Sho_ | karsten: You can in KDE, too |
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| 20:14.19 | Sho_ | karsten: Do keep in mind that your 3.3 is quite a bit older than current stable |
| 20:14.42 | mariux | your a kde developer but runs 3.3? |
| 20:14.47 | mariux | or is this another karsten |
| 20:14.49 | karsten | Sho_: Yeah. I normally run Debian etch. This is work. |
| 20:14.56 | Half-Left | wooow, 3.3 |
| 20:15.00 | qupada | karsten: i wouldn't compare anything to osx's window manager. it's the most retarded excuse for a window manager in existance. due mostly to the fact it still shares most of its design with every version of mac os before it |
| 20:15.02 | karsten | Still tweaking the etch install environment. Lots of NFS/NIS/LDAP going on. |
| 20:15.21 | karsten | qupada: <preaching type="choir"> |
| 20:15.26 | mariux | when i tried os x for the first time 6 months ago i felt like it had tied both my hands on my back |
| 20:15.36 | karsten | mariux: Only your hands? |
| 20:15.40 | john_b | shouldn't that be target="choir" ? :)) |
| 20:15.43 | mariux | :) |
| 20:15.49 | Sho_ | karsten: There have been a number of behavioral changes around maximization / partial maximization / restoring to previous size from either as well in kwin (I know since I did some of those bugfixes ..) |
| 20:15.49 | karsten | mariux: You were *lucky*. |
| 20:15.57 | mariux | im not so good on the keyboard with my feet though |
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| 20:16.37 | karsten | OK. |
| 20:16.40 | PhilRod | aseigo: particularly special when you forget that in !emacs, Ctrl+A *doesn't* go to the beginning of the line... |
| 20:16.41 | rdale | i like playing 'hunt the modal dialogs' in konqueror. you get one of them like kwallet popping up and can't find it via the windows menu, and it makes all the other modal dialogs just hang |
| 20:17.05 | karsten | Mind this is a 3.3 gripe: the list isn't persistent or pinnable (Wmaker's _main_ windowlist, not the circulate one) is. |
| 20:17.21 | karsten | And you have the option of _raise windows_ *or* _use windowlist_ but not both. |
| 20:17.26 | karsten | I actually prefer both behaviors. |
| 20:18.05 | karsten | So if I use the windowlist I can select a window (good) but I've got no context (which of my 44 xterms was that?) which window I'm selecting? |
| 20:18.28 | aseigo | in 3.5 at least there's a frame painted on-screen showing which one |
| 20:18.34 | karsten | If I use the alternative, I can see which window is currently selected, but I've got no idea where in the stack I'm going next. |
| 20:18.40 | aseigo | doesn't bring the whole window forward, but it does give some spatial concept |
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| 20:18.57 | mariux | aseigo: yea, thats good |
| 20:19.04 | karsten | It's sort of the KDE Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. |
| 20:19.12 | mariux | karsten: whats the alternative? |
| 20:19.16 | karsten | You know either where you are or where you're going. |
| 20:19.24 | karsten | mariux: Show list *and* raise windows. |
| 20:19.34 | *** part/#kde logixoul (n=logixoul@85.187.223.202) |
| 20:19.37 | karsten | mariux: On wmaker they're seperately selectable behaviors. |
| 20:19.37 | mariux | a alt+tab preference? |
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| 20:20.04 | rindolf | What can cause the KDE colors to be reverted times and again on Mandriva 2007? They are fine in the .kde config files (share/config/kdeglobals and share/apps/kdisplay/color-schemes, yet still display wrong on startup). |
| 20:20.25 | mariux | rindolf: sounds like a mandrive specific bug |
| 20:20.44 | rindolf | mariux: OK. |
| 20:21.05 | mariux | aseigo: did you know of any themes that dont have that 3px border between the edge of the screen and the scrollbar? |
| 20:21.56 | aseigo | mariux: that's a problem with qtabwidget. essentially unfixable for kde3. maybe for kde4. |
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| 20:22.41 | mariux | ok :) |
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| 20:22.55 | karsten | mariux: Trying to get there. Running wmaker under Xnest. Problem is KDE steals all keybindings... |
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| 20:23.24 | Sho_ | (Xephyr > Xnest) |
| 20:23.54 | mariux | karsten: have you tried hitting the same keybindings twice fast? Kde will like the toll booth be busy with the previous catch |
| 20:23.59 | mariux | :P:P |
| 20:24.04 | aseigo | karsten: try xephyer |
| 20:24.08 | aseigo | er, Xephyr |
| 20:24.12 | karsten | aseigo: Wozzat? |
| 20:24.25 | aseigo | karsten: hold down ctrl+shift for a second and it grabs mouse and keyboard (repeat to release) .. really nice |
| 20:24.30 | aseigo | karsten: it's ++xnest |
| 20:24.36 | karsten | aseigo: Ah. |
| 20:24.45 | karsten | aseigo: I'll just kick off a seperate session |
| 20:25.28 | aseigo | karsten: what OS are you using? |
| 20:26.00 | Sho_ | karsten: Xephyr is based on Keith Packard's kdrive X server and uses a window on a host X server as framebuffer. It's faster than Xnest and supports more modern X extensions than Xnest. It also handles a bit better. It's included with xorg in recent releases. |
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| 20:26.18 | mariux | ok, try this someone: Start the extraction of two multirar archives, then cancel one of them, notice how the other also closes |
| 20:26.29 | Sho_ | karsten: Currently comes in handy with KDE4 development for running a KDE4 session within the more-stable KDE 3 ;) |
| 20:26.37 | mariux | (using ark) |
| 20:27.08 | mariux | also, notice that when one is finished it will kill the other extraction too |
| 20:27.15 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: Do you know who is in charge with the things regarding the msgmerge process and that stuff? |
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| 20:30.03 | mariux | can anyone confirm? |
| 20:30.08 | PhilRod | icwiener_: whoever you can find on kde-i18n-doc@kde.org I think. I don't know how's dealing with it at the moment |
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| 20:31.11 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: I started a thread there already, but modt of the answers were about the gettext guys using "she" in their docs. ;) |
| 20:31.13 | PhilRod | s/how/who/ of course |
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| 20:31.22 | PhilRod | oh, heh, I saw that |
| 20:31.28 | Flighter | what happened to http://bugs.kde.org/ |
| 20:31.41 | mariux | Flighter: noticed that too |
| 20:31.47 | icwiener_ | Flighter: seems down |
| 20:31.48 | PhilRod | yeah, I was just about to ask :-) |
| 20:31.58 | Flighter | yes it seams |
| 20:33.09 | karsten | Sho_: Right. |
| 20:33.20 | karsten | Sho_: Emulo (in all its flavors) is pretty cool stuff. |
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| 20:33.38 | PhilRod | icwiener_: from my point of view, anything that makes fuzzies easier for the translators is a Good Thing |
| 20:33.53 | PhilRod | since it means we can fix more stuff without causing problems for them |
| 20:34.16 | karsten | Sho_: I'll try to demo this later. Getting my xinerama X config atm which is a bit too big for prime time. |
| 20:35.21 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: Yes. It sounds like a very graet thing. But if nobody finds the one in charge, then it's hard to implement. ;) |
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| 20:36.39 | karsten | BTW, friend noted that his Moto Razr runs Qtopia. |
| 20:37.22 | qupada | wow, one redeeming feature for an otherwise useless phone |
| 20:37.40 | karsten | qupada: Heh. |
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| 20:38.43 | icwiener_ | *works |
| 20:38.48 | PhilRod | icwiener_: it's kde, the one who does the work decides :-) |
| 20:39.26 | qupada | icwiener_: i'm amazed you haven't upgraded to something smaller and lighter |
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| 20:39.38 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: hehe, I beware of getting into server stuff. ;) |
| 20:39.45 | mariux | Sho_: did you buy it at p.k. winsoms cellphone emporium in scofield illinois? |
| 20:39.54 | icwiener_ | qupada: As I said. It still works. ;) |
| 20:40.10 | mariux | for anyone who saw last colbert report :P |
| 20:40.15 | qupada | mind you those 5110's could take a beating. one of my mate's parents was a linesman, his 5110 had been dropped from the top of a power pole a couple of times and still worked perfectly |
| 20:40.29 | icwiener_ | qupada: I am not a mobild phone guy. It sleeps in the edge and is activated 5 times a Year, or so. |
| 20:40.52 | Sho_ | mariux: err ... no ;) |
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| 20:48.16 | PhilRod | but this discussion does remind me that it needs charging :-) |
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| 20:48.28 | icwiener_ | hehe |
| 20:48.41 | qupada | PhilRod: fo' shame |
| 20:48.44 | icwiener_ | bugs.kde.org is up again :) |
| 20:48.47 | Bardian | matrix |
| 20:48.52 | qupada | :P |
| 20:51.12 | icwiener_ | lol? bugs.kde.org has a section for reporting gstreamer bugs? :D |
| 20:51.31 | Sho_ | icwiener_: And here I was hoping we had shut it down due to obsolesence because the last bug was fixed. |
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| 20:54.11 | icwiener_ | There are way too much sections. :( |
| 20:54.24 | icwiener_ | Or a missing subsection display. |
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| 20:55.25 | icwiener_ | "BlowUp - A tool to increase size of pictures ..." hehe |
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| 21:00.04 | mariux | hi, can someone confirm that if you extract two multirar archives using ark, when one of them close (because its finished or you click cancel), the other one will close aswell |
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| 21:02.54 | AciD | hi |
| 21:03.09 | PhilRod | hi AciD |
| 21:04.48 | AciD | I installed scim one week ago to be able to type chinese character, but since it didn t worked out of the box, and I didn t have the time to investigate the issue, I removed it |
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| 21:05.29 | *** join/#kde rindolf (n=shlomi@bzq-88-153-186-206.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 21:05.32 | AciD | but now, I can t type any accentued character under kde apps (works in gnome term for instance) : the dead keys aren t working anymore |
| 21:05.32 | rindolf | Hi all. |
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| 21:06.02 | AciD | in kcontrol, the keyboard layout is set to : setxkbmap -model inspiron -layout us -variant alt-intl with setxkbmap -option grp:ctrls_toggle,grp_led:caps |
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| 21:06.34 | AciD | variant is intl in fact |
| 21:06.37 | rindolf | It's not normal for kdeglobals not to contain an "activeBlend" color in its "[WM]" section, right? Because mine doesn't. |
| 21:06.52 | rindolf | And the one of a new user I created does. |
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| 21:12.23 | veracity | i like kde because kde gives me more advanced options and more power at my fingertips. Gnome sucks because everything is dummbed down, it makes me feel overly restricted |
| 21:13.09 | icwiener_ | veracity: Gnome doesn't suck. It just don't fit your needs. |
| 21:13.29 | PhilRod | veracity: what he said, but glad you like kde :-) |
| 21:15.47 | veracity | icwiener_, i feel like going from kde to gnome is like going from a 10 speed bicycle to a bicycle with training wheels |
| 21:16.29 | qupada | i believe that reference should have included a tricycle |
| 21:16.55 | qupada | that or gnome being a unicycle with training wheels. because that paints a funny mental picture |
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| 21:17.45 | icwiener_ | Gnome is used much in business and enterprise environments. If you don't like it, do not use it. It is a very good DE and your opinion won't change the fact that there are many people who like it. |
| 21:18.43 | PhilRod | icwiener_: on that topic, did you see the article/report about birmingham city council switching to linux? |
| 21:18.55 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: No. |
| 21:18.59 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: Link? |
| 21:19.08 | PhilRod | sure, let me find it |
| 21:19.31 | PhilRod | http://www.opensourceacademy.org.uk/solutions/casestudies/birminham-city-council/file |
| 21:19.45 | *** join/#kde warriorness (n=warriorn@cpe-024-163-066-208.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 21:19.55 | PhilRod | interestingly, in a deployment of linux PCs in libraries, they found KDE a better choice than gnome |
| 21:19.55 | icwiener_ | uff 67 pages. :D |
| 21:20.03 | PhilRod | grep it for 'kde' :-) |
| 21:20.12 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: hehe |
| 21:20.23 | qupada | icwiener_: you have to remember though, market share does not in any way reflect the quality of most software (after all look how many people use windows). the fact that, as you say, enterprise environments use gnome is because arrogant distro packagers aren't giving the system adminds another option |
| 21:20.51 | PhilRod | I bring it up lest anyone think you're suggesting that "kde is fine for tweakers and power users, but businesses want gnome" |
| 21:21.14 | PhilRod | (I'm sure you weren't trying to say that, but let's stop anyone getting that idea) |
| 21:21.42 | warriorness | Power users? |
| 21:21.56 | warriorness | The implication that people who want power use KDE? |
| 21:22.03 | Half-Left | PhilRod: according to Novell yer :p |
| 21:22.42 | warriorness | Uhhh... afaik KDE is the most bloated of all the Linux DEs. Power users would want Xfce or similar. |
| 21:22.42 | Half-Left | lol |
| 21:22.50 | icwiener_ | qupada: There are many very good tools in Gnome (esp some very nice litte things) as well as some very good huge applications like evolution and stuff. I cannot see a lack of quality in the Gnome project. |
| 21:22.58 | veracity | bloat? |
| 21:23.05 | Half-Left | warriorness: bloated?, can you prove this? |
| 21:23.07 | veracity | where is this bloat, i have never seen it? |
| 21:23.21 | warriorness | I was under the assumption that it was common knowledge? |
| 21:23.31 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: thx for the link btw... :) |
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| 21:23.48 | Half-Left | xfce doesnot have features like KDE has, KDE it alot more powerful |
| 21:23.55 | PhilRod | warriorness: if by "bloat" you mean "it's large because it does more stuff" then sure, TANSTAAFL |
| 21:24.00 | warriorness | Powerfyul, yes... |
| 21:24.03 | warriorness | like a Hummer |
| 21:24.04 | veracity | what is tanstaafl? |
| 21:24.15 | PhilRod | giyf :-) |
| 21:24.15 | veracity | PhilRod, is right, kde is bigger because it does more things |
| 21:24.35 | veracity | google is your big brother |
| 21:24.36 | Half-Left | Renze: You put me in your ignore list? :p |
| 21:24.39 | warriorness | It's the most powerful, of course, but it seems to me that it runs slower than Xfce or GNOME on any system |
| 21:24.51 | Half-Left | what KDE? |
| 21:25.00 | Half-Left | your joking right? |
| 21:25.06 | qupada | icwiener_: fair enough, my problem with gnome is all the little things too though, shortcuts and things i use to work faster just aren't there, it's a real productivity sucker |
| 21:25.17 | Renze | warriorness: in my experience, it is faster |
| 21:25.25 | warriorness | Renze: How so |
| 21:25.42 | warriorness | I'm not joking, but I acknowledge that I may be wrong |
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| 21:25.49 | warriorness | if you'd like to prove me wrong, be my guest |
| 21:25.49 | Half-Left | Qt is far faster then GTK+ for one |
| 21:25.51 | alfmatos | hi |
| 21:25.56 | warriorness | hi alfmatos |
| 21:25.57 | veracity | warriorness, do you have a really slow computer? |
| 21:26.06 | warriorness | veracity: 1.8 GHz P4, 768 MB RAM |
| 21:26.09 | alfmatos | whats the KDE power manager thingy ? |
| 21:26.16 | Half-Left | warriorness: GTK+ is fast then? |
| 21:27.20 | warriorness | Half-Left: Is it? Seems to me that it is. Else why would xfce use it? |
| 21:27.20 | Renze | warriorness: 7 years of KDE use, from a PII 266 64MB to an Athlon XP 1800+ 512MB — in all that time, Gnome has always been slower, and XFCE is so lacking in features I couldn't get anything done |
| 21:27.24 | alfmatos | nok, let me rephrase: Does KDE have a Power Manager ? |
| 21:27.40 | veracity | alfmatos, like midnight commander? |
| 21:27.40 | Half-Left | alfmatos: yes |
| 21:28.05 | alfmatos | Half-Left, what's the Power Manager's name ? (package, that is) |
| 21:28.08 | qupada | in all honesty, it's been a long time since we passed the point where kde uses less system resources than gnome. gtk+ is the source of most of it |
| 21:28.09 | Half-Left | warriorness: and if Xfce used Qt? |
| 21:28.19 | alfmatos | veracity, no, like a power manager =), battery life and such |
| 21:28.25 | Half-Left | alfmatos: kpowermanager :-) |
| 21:28.30 | Renze | alfmatos: klaptop? |
| 21:28.36 | warriorness | Half-Left: Well, wouldn't it be faster? According to you, Qt is faster than GTK, so why shouldn't Xfce use it? |
| 21:28.45 | alfmatos | gonna try Kpowermanager =) |
| 21:28.48 | Half-Left | warriorness: ask them |
| 21:29.09 | Half-Left | warriorness: GNOME uses cairo alot and that is very slow |
| 21:29.09 | Renze | alfmatos: klaptopdaemon |
| 21:29.09 | warriorness | I was just making a point, I don't actually care for the specific reason |
| 21:29.41 | alfmatos | Renze, thanks, that's it |
| 21:29.54 | Renze | no problem |
| 21:30.00 | warriorness | Half-Left: And what about when you have to install GTK on your KDE system anyway when you install a GTK app like Firefox? |
| 21:30.05 | Sho_ | (on memory usage: http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/) |
| 21:30.25 | Half-Left | warriorness: firefox is not native gtk |
| 21:30.49 | warriorness | Half-Left: Fine, it was just an example. Name any other gtk app, I'll use that as an example |
| 21:30.59 | Half-Left | firefox would be alot better with Qt but no one has bothered to port it |
| 21:31.31 | Half-Left | warriorness: why would you compare a GTK app in KDE? |
| 21:31.39 | warriorness | "Compare"? |
| 21:31.49 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Actually there have been at least two porting efforts, but both failed to be brought to completion due to lack of interest in the wider Mozilla community |
| 21:32.19 | Sho_ | warriorness: Define "bloat" |
| 21:32.21 | Half-Left | Sho_: thats a shame |
| 21:32.49 | warriorness | Sho_: Excessive stuff that makes the overall program run slower |
| 21:32.59 | Renze | no such thing |
| 21:33.00 | warriorness | Half-Left: My point is, what of when a KDE user installs GTK on their system? |
| 21:33.01 | Half-Left | warriorness: whats the firefox/GTK thing in KDE anyway, firefox is overared |
| 21:33.06 | tuju | f-bert ping |
| 21:33.08 | Sho_ | warriorness: Define "Excessive stuff" |
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| 21:33.23 | warriorness | what are you, Bill Clinton or something |
| 21:33.28 | Half-Left | warriorness: what about the other way around? |
| 21:33.52 | warriorness | Half-Left: That is true too - |
| 21:34.07 | warriorness | I guess GNOME users would have to install Qt if they wanted amarok or something |
| 21:34.21 | Half-Left | KDE requires less deps to get a KDE working than a gnome app |
| 21:34.30 | warriorness | I did not know that. |
| 21:34.35 | Half-Left | kde app* |
| 21:34.41 | icwiener_ | It's like in sports. The players just like to play but the fans have to hate each other for some reason. |
| 21:35.15 | warriorness | icwiener_: why all the hate |
| 21:35.20 | Sho_ | warriorness: Give me an example of "excessive stuff that makes the overall program run slower" in the KDE application platform, then |
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| 21:35.25 | Half-Left | warriorness: I'd rather use Konqueror over firefox anyday |
| 21:36.00 | warriorness | Sho_: All the customization options it gives you, all the applications (granted, the apps are optional) |
| 21:36.10 | Renze | warriorness: how do they make things slower? |
| 21:36.18 | warriorness | Renze: I dunno :\ |
| 21:36.24 | Sho_ | warriorness: Explain to me how customization options make programs run slower |
| 21:36.29 | Renze | warriorness: they don't — plain and simple |
| 21:36.33 | warriorness | Sho_: I dunno :\ |
| 21:36.34 | Sho_ | warriorness: And what makes customization options "excessive" |
| 21:36.50 | Half-Left | Sho_: Ask Renze if i'm on his ignore list :p |
| 21:37.01 | warriorness | More features = more stuff to manage, therefore less performance? |
| 21:37.18 | Renze | bollocks |
| 21:37.26 | warriorness | Half-Left: What about extensions? Firefox has a huge amount of extensions and themes etc etc compared to Konqueror |
| 21:37.31 | Sho_ | warriorness: The funny thing is that if you e.g. look at memory usage (see http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/), KDE pretty much consistently wins over Gnome, despite alleged excessive customizability making things slower or more resource-inefficient |
| 21:37.31 | Renze | you're just making stuff up, warriorness |
| 21:37.42 | warriorness | perhaps I am |
| 21:37.56 | warriorness | but I was under the impression that bloat = less performance |
| 21:38.07 | Renze | your impression is incorrect |
| 21:38.14 | Half-Left | warriorness: themes, KDE uses it's own, extensions, yer Konqueror has built in KDE intergration dont need them |
| 21:38.18 | warriorness | Renze: Explain to me how, then |
| 21:38.20 | Renze | and I still don't see any bloat |
| 21:38.25 | Renze | how what? |
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| 21:38.33 | warriorness | Half-Left: What do you mean, Konqueror doesn't need extensions? |
| 21:38.39 | Renze | KDE isn't bloated... that's only your observation, not a fact |
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| 21:39.01 | Half-Left | warriorness: Firefox has spell checking in firefox right? |
| 21:39.10 | warriorness | Half-Left: In 2.0, yes. |
| 21:39.18 | Phenax | Anyone know a good QT/KDE ID3 tagger? (Not Amarok) |
| 21:39.20 | warriorness | Half-Left: There is always functionality that any given program lacks. With Firefox, many people see the need to reduce the lack by writing extensions |
| 21:39.25 | warriorness | Phenax: Why not amarok? |
| 21:39.27 | Renze | Phenax: kid3 ? |
| 21:39.36 | Half-Left | warriorness: well KDE has it so konqueror dont need a extension |
| 21:39.37 | Phenax | warriorness: Because I don't want a whole audio player to rename id3 tags. |
| 21:39.40 | Renze | Phenax: I've never used it though, so I don't know if it is any good |
| 21:39.54 | benJIman | Phenax: juk does too, but I guess if you don't like amarok you probably wouldn't like that either. |
| 21:39.58 | warriorness | Half-Left: KDE has what exactly? |
| 21:40.06 | Half-Left | spell checking |
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| 21:40.09 | Renze | Phenax: http://kid3.sourceforge.net/ |
| 21:40.10 | warriorness | Oh |
| 21:40.11 | Phenax | Renze: Thanks, I'll try it out. |
| 21:40.25 | warriorness | I'm talking about more than just spell-checking, Half-Left |
| 21:40.33 | Half-Left | you want more? |
| 21:40.37 | Half-Left | addblock? |
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| 21:40.56 | warriorness | Half-Left: You're just naming those extensions that Konqueror has that parallel Firefox |
| 21:41.00 | Sho_ | warriorness: For one, many of the customization options that KDE applications have over competing applications are a natural byproduct of the technology involved, and the competition simply choses not to expose those options whereas KDE does. The result being that there are no performance implications, just more customizability. |
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| 21:41.08 | hagabaka | konqueror has extensions too, just not as well publicly created |
| 21:41.24 | warriorness | hagabaka: My point exactly. |
| 21:41.26 | PhilRod | Phenax: you can also do it from konqueror, I think, or juk (although that's a player too - it's more minimal than amarok though) |
| 21:41.28 | Half-Left | warriorness: Firefox dont have adblock, konqueror has it built in |
| 21:41.35 | tuju | have you noticed that konqueror stops starting from panel with latest updates? |
| 21:41.39 | warriorness | Half-Left: Doesn't matter, just install the firefox extension |
| 21:41.50 | Half-Left | what when it has it |
| 21:41.51 | Renze | tuju: nope... works fine here. blame your distro. |
| 21:41.53 | Half-Left | why* |
| 21:42.00 | Hydrogen | konq also runs noticibly faster than firefox |
| 21:42.02 | warriorness | Half-Left: Tab Mix Plus. Linkification. Mouse Gestures. DownThemAll |
| 21:42.08 | Hydrogen | though I will say that opera is still my favorite. |
| 21:42.12 | hagabaka | firefox extensions don't need to be compiled, which makes the distribution of extensions easier. but at the same time, that decreases performance |
| 21:42.13 | Half-Left | extensions can course all sorts of issues anyway |
| 21:42.17 | warriorness | Hydrogen: I'm not debating performance - Konqueror is a clear win over Firefox in that regard |
| 21:42.22 | warriorness | Half-Left: Such as what? |
| 21:42.26 | Half-Left | crashes |
| 21:42.31 | Half-Left | memory leaks |
| 21:42.36 | Half-Left | high memory |
| 21:42.37 | warriorness | I dunno what extensions you're using |
| 21:42.51 | warriorness | Granted, if you install twenty extensions you'll get high memory |
| 21:42.54 | Half-Left | soemthing that firefox has a issues with anyway |
| 21:42.59 | warriorness | but that's what you get for additional features, right? |
| 21:43.16 | Hydrogen | as I said |
| 21:43.18 | Hydrogen | opera does it right. |
| 21:43.19 | warriorness | And I have not once had an issue with Firefox memory leaking. |
| 21:43.37 | Half-Left | Hydrogen: that why Opera memory usage is huge |
| 21:43.45 | warriorness | I dunno what even got us into this anymore |
| 21:43.51 | Half-Left | warriorness: sure, but it's a problem |
| 21:43.56 | Sho_ | warriorness: What gives rise to the impression that KDE is "bloated" if anything is that some parts of it suffer from poor UI design that makes it appear cluttered in places (this is being worked on for 4). But that's entirely different from being slow or inefficient. In general, KDE technology is of very high quality and efficiency, inferior to none on the Linux desktop. |
| 21:44.23 | Hydrogen | Half-Left: its worth it :) |
| 21:44.40 | Hydrogen | Half-Left: i have the memory to spare, its worth the performance boost |
| 21:44.47 | warriorness | Sho_: Anybody who criticizes the UI design of KDE is insane. I thought the whole point was that you could customize the UI any way you wanted? |
| 21:45.08 | warriorness | Granted, with some applications, no... I'm talking about the DE as a whole. |
| 21:45.08 | Half-Left | Hydrogen: Opera is like it or hate it UI |
| 21:45.08 | PhilRod | sane defaults are important |
| 21:45.19 | MinceR | it's widely customizable, but "any" would be going a bit too far :> |
| 21:45.36 | MinceR | (except if you also change/add source code) |
| 21:45.52 | warriorness | MinceR: Short of individual applications, the desktop is pretty much fully customizable, from what I can tell. |
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| 21:46.49 | PhilRod | depends what you mean by "fully customizable" |
| 21:47.32 | Half-Left | warriorness: assuming your extension works with new versions :p |
| 21:47.40 | jjlee | How do I get an applet I've installed to appear in the dialog that appears when you click on "Add Applet to Panel..." panel right-click menu? |
| 21:47.51 | *** join/#kde delusions (n=delusion@85.98.211.88) |
| 21:48.08 | jjlee | (I'm on kubuntu, and the applet I've apt-get install-ed is kteatime) |
| 21:48.09 | warriorness | Half-Left: What do you mean? With new Firefox versions? |
| 21:48.23 | Renze | jjlee: kteatime isn't an applet |
| 21:48.30 | warriorness | Half-Left: Most major Firefox extensions have been ported to 2.0 already. |
| 21:48.31 | jjlee | Renze: Ah! |
| 21:48.38 | Half-Left | warriorness: not all themes and extension are compatible with new version of firefox |
| 21:48.45 | Renze | jjlee: look in KMenu -> Games -> Toys |
| 21:49.07 | Renze | jjlee: although kubuntu modify the menu, so it could be somewhere else |
| 21:49.09 | jjlee | Renze: will it restart on login? I guess so, if I have my session configured to persist |
| 21:49.13 | warriorness | Half-Left: That is true. |
| 21:49.27 | Renze | jjlee: I would say so |
| 21:49.29 | jjlee | Renze: Indeed I couldn't find it in the kubuntu menu |
| 21:49.31 | warriorness | Half-Left: But the amount of extensions and themes compatible with FF2.0 is still more than what Konqueror has. |
| 21:49.50 | Half-Left | warriorness: Also Konqueror is safer :p |
| 21:49.51 | Renze | jjlee: I only know the vanilla menu |
| 21:49.51 | jjlee | sure |
| 21:49.54 | warriorness | Half-Left: What do you mean? |
| 21:50.01 | jjlee | thanks |
| 21:50.06 | warriorness | Viruses? This is linux we're talking about here |
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| 21:51.19 | Half-Left | warriorness: it doesnot have the vunibilities firefox has |
| 21:51.27 | warriorness | .. |
| 21:51.29 | Half-Left | damn spelling :p |
| 21:51.32 | warriorness | Half-Left: Such as what? |
| 21:51.48 | Half-Left | you dont know? |
| 21:51.51 | warriorness | Nope. |
| 21:52.08 | Half-Left | go check it out then |
| 21:52.12 | warriorness | Link? |
| 21:52.18 | Phenax | if kid3 could do more automatic junk, it'd be great. It only allows me to open one album at a time it seems. |
| 21:52.40 | Renze | Phenax: like I said, I've never used it. I don't need to, I have Amarok :D |
| 21:52.58 | Half-Left | use google |
| 21:53.07 | warriorness | Phenax: Why don't you use Amarok? Do you not have it installed, or are you just not willing to start it up? |
| 21:53.13 | warriorness | Half-Left: k |
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| 21:53.30 | Half-Left | warriorness: http://secunia.com/product/4227/ |
| 21:53.32 | Phenax | warriorness: I don't have it installed and as I said I'm not going to install it just to edit ID3 tags. |
| 21:53.48 | warriorness | Phenax: ah. What are you using, then? |
| 21:54.02 | Phenax | warriorness: For what? |
| 21:54.11 | warriorness | Phenax: Media player. |
| 21:54.14 | Phenax | MPD |
| 21:54.44 | hagabaka | what does that stand for? |
| 21:54.50 | Phenax | Music Player Daemon |
| 21:54.50 | warriorness | I'm not familiar with that one. |
| 21:54.59 | Half-Left | memory leaks course vulnerabilities |
| 21:55.18 | Phenax | Although I doubt to see it's relevance ;/ |
| 21:55.28 | qupada | Phenax: which frontend for it do you use? |
| 21:55.42 | Phenax | qupada: MPC |
| 21:56.19 | qupada | Phenax: not into gui frontends? |
| 21:56.45 | Phenax | qupada: Yeah, I am, but not particularly for my music. |
| 21:57.46 | qupada | Phenax: if you can bebothered installing qt4, try qmpdclient (havtknut.tihlde.org/qmpdclient) |
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| 21:58.36 | Phenax | qupada: I've tried it, and I don't particularly like it. Although, it's kind of off of the subject of my problem -- a good id3 tagger. Kid3 is pretty decent but only can do one album at a time, and it's automatic functionality seems quite limited. |
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| 22:00.48 | Renze | Phenax: if you can stand gtk1, easytag |
| 22:01.05 | qupada | well 90% of my music i've ripped myself and tagged relatively manually (that is, i type the album/track names and i have an app that makes a script to encode the files with the tags in place), so i never really have to worry |
| 22:01.26 | Phenax | Renze: I'd rather not paddle into GTK. |
| 22:01.44 | ataxic | hehe |
| 22:01.55 | ataxic | GUI pollution |
| 22:02.18 | ataxic | thats how I see it |
| 22:02.22 | GraveDigger | now playing: Corvus Corax - Filii Neidhardi (Consistenz remix) |
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| 22:02.33 | GraveDigger | damn, amarok and my music make me *gr0000ve* |
| 22:02.36 | GraveDigger | :) |
| 22:02.49 | Half-Left | it supposed to :p |
| 22:02.52 | ataxic | GraveDigger: play soem Gravediggaz |
| 22:02.54 | paoleela | Hello. How do I enable in konqueror's history the search bar? |
| 22:03.00 | GraveDigger | (: |
| 22:03.12 | ataxic | diary of a madman |
| 22:03.15 | ataxic | :) |
| 22:03.19 | GraveDigger | oh no |
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| 22:03.28 | GraveDigger | i dont like rap music |
| 22:03.45 | Half-Left | paoleela: you mean what you've type in the search bar before? |
| 22:03.48 | ataxic | thats not ordinary rap imo |
| 22:03.56 | GraveDigger | especially no commercial usa PEEE EI EMM PEEE rap |
| 22:04.29 | paoleela | Half-Left: No, on the other computer I have a search field in the history (F9) of Konqueror. |
| 22:04.29 | ataxic | you think niggamortis is like fooking poof daddy? |
| 22:04.42 | Phenax | I've sat on my foot for so long i can't wiggle my toes |
| 22:04.44 | Phenax | oh noez! |
| 22:04.44 | Renze | rap isn't music... it's awful poetry with a bassline |
| 22:04.47 | ataxic | or snoop poodle dog |
| 22:05.06 | GraveDigger | snoop poodle dog |
| 22:05.06 | GraveDigger | lol |
| 22:05.12 | GraveDigger | i need to remember this |
| 22:05.15 | GraveDigger | :D |
| 22:05.18 | ataxic | hehe |
| 22:05.41 | ataxic | i have music for every mood |
| 22:05.47 | ataxic | from mozart to slayer :P |
| 22:06.00 | ataxic | i dont like top 40 stuff |
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| 22:22.09 | n3kl | Any links for kde addons or packages that I should be aware of? |
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| 22:22.58 | Renze | n3kl: www.kde-look.org www.kde-apps.org |
| 22:23.53 | n3kl | Renze: thanks |
| 22:23.59 | Renze | no problem |
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| 22:25.04 | n3kl | When does kde4 release? |
| 22:25.12 | Renze | mid 2007 |
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| 22:27.25 | PhilRod | n3kl: but there's no definite release date yet |
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| 22:29.20 | Phenax | hmm |
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| 22:59.01 | kblin | hi |
| 22:59.12 | kblin | I'm getting a crash in kmail |
| 23:00.15 | kblin | http://rafb.net/paste/results/WLVng370.html |
| 23:00.22 | kblin | what would be causing this? |
| 23:00.34 | Phenax | I'm starting to get used to kid3 a bit -- is there a way to recursively have all files in a directory at the same time? |
| 23:01.15 | Shirakawasuna | kblin: distro? |
| 23:01.28 | pinotree | kblin: --> #kontact |
| 23:01.31 | kblin | suse 10.1 i586.. |
| 23:01.34 | pinotree | there they could help you more |
| 23:01.38 | kblin | ok |
| 23:01.55 | pinotree | (if they don't sleep already ;) ) |
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| 23:02.41 | kblin | pinotree, europe based? |
| 23:02.57 | pinotree | most of, yeah |
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| 23:03.28 | Half-Left | wooow |
| 23:04.36 | icwiener_ | Somewhere in the docs of kdm there is the sentence "The command is subject to word splitting." Can anyone explain me in other words, what it means? |
| 23:04.57 | PhilRod | probably something to do with passing commands to the shell |
| 23:05.13 | Sho_ | Half-Left: If the OOo stuff is implemented as ODT->OpenXML filters, possibly. Otherwise I doubt it's very high on anybody's priority list. |
| 23:05.27 | *** join/#kde bulent_okt (n=bulent_o@81.214.36.67) |
| 23:05.43 | Shirakawasuna | as of right now it's unusable for chemistry stuff, *sigh* |
| 23:06.02 | Sho_ | Shirakawasuna: Sure, KSpread is under active development |
| 23:06.20 | benJIman | OOo is too. |
| 23:06.22 | PhilRod | icwiener_: so if you have a command that takes two arguments (like 'grep regex file'), the shell decides what goes into the first argument and what goes into the second |
| 23:06.25 | Half-Left | Sho_: Should koffice even consider it, Novell jumps so should koffice? |
| 23:06.45 | benJIman | Someone needs to implement decent scatter graphing support for OOo or koffice |
| 23:06.47 | PhilRod | icwiener_: you might have a regex with a space in, so you want the argument split differently |
| 23:06.51 | Sho_ | Half-Left: If it's easy to add and doesn't detract from any other development, why not? |
| 23:07.12 | Half-Left | Sho_: because it's another MS format? |
| 23:07.20 | PhilRod | Shirakawasuna: chemists use spreadsheets? what for? |
| 23:07.23 | Shirakawasuna | krita has a very annoying resize method, too....make me want to punch it |
| 23:07.24 | Half-Left | that we dont need |
| 23:07.30 | Shirakawasuna | PhilRod: handy for calculations |
| 23:07.41 | Shirakawasuna | PhilRod: also data analysis |
| 23:07.48 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: Hmm, I see. It's hard to get that in one german sentence though. :) |
| 23:08.03 | Shirakawasuna | easy to find linear regressions, then use the values of m, b, etc, to find other chemical values |
| 23:08.33 | Half-Left | Sho_: From what I understand of koffice and it's .doc support they dont really care, it's all about it's own formats like ODF |
| 23:08.34 | Shirakawasuna | I end up using gimp to simply resize docs because I can't figure out krita's "let's add a clear border" setting |
| 23:08.50 | Sho_ | Half-Left: True, but unlike with earlier MS formats, it's documented, available under their (respected) Open Specification Promise, implementable without a license, and submitted to ECMA. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather use ODT (without ODT, MS wouldn't have been pressured to make OpenXML available in that fashion), but it's still a step in the right direction from their earlier binary formats. |
| 23:09.01 | *** part/#kde bulent_okt (n=bulent_o@81.214.36.67) |
| 23:09.37 | Half-Left | Sho_: it's a step to MS making evey other office app use there format, ODF will die |
| 23:10.03 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Well KOffice will obviously remain committed to OpenDocument and continue to use those standards as its default formats |
| 23:10.08 | Half-Left | MS get there cake and eat it |
| 23:10.22 | benJIman | their |
| 23:10.40 | Half-Left | there/their who cares |
| 23:10.45 | benJIman | At the end of the day it's open formats that matter, not who invented them, although ODF is nicer. |
| 23:10.52 | benJIman | People who have to read it. |
| 23:10.58 | Half-Left | benJIman: sure it matters |
| 23:11.03 | *** join/#kde [BleeD] (n=blid@84-120-19-138.onocable.ono.com) |
| 23:11.04 | benJIman | They're completely different words. |
| 23:11.15 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Supporting OpenXML in KOffice doesn't make KOffice change its default format, though |
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| 23:11.43 | Half-Left | sure it dont, but whats the use of a default format if MS's format has killed it |
| 23:11.57 | PhilRod | icwiener_: well, hard to get into one english sentence too :-). But presumably you have, or can invent, a word that means "word splitting", right? |
| 23:12.07 | PhilRod | so it'll say the same as the English sentence, at least |
| 23:12.10 | benJIman | Half-Left: The fact that MS created the format doesn't make it inherently bad. |
| 23:12.16 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Why would MS's format kill it? |
| 23:12.35 | Half-Left | because everyone will use it, just like .doc |
| 23:12.53 | Sho_ | Half-Left: However unlike .doc, OpenXML is not undocumented and proprietary, which was the problem with .doc |
| 23:13.06 | Half-Left | so, koffice will use and all the other will use it, YADF |
| 23:13.11 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: Yes. It is that way now but the sentence is like "Ok, I read it, but what the hell does it mean?" :D |
| 23:13.27 | Half-Left | YET Another Doc Format |
| 23:13.35 | PhilRod | icwiener_: indeed, but that's SEP for you as a translator :-) |
| 23:13.47 | icwiener_ | sep? |
| 23:13.54 | PhilRod | somebody else's problem :-) |
| 23:14.02 | aseigo | the xml format itself is, -but-: |
| 23:14.08 | Half-Left | so much for ODF being the standard |
| 23:14.14 | aseigo | the spec is fucking HUGE and it is often used to contain blobs of binary crud |
| 23:14.18 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: consider usinge less acronyms. ;) |
| 23:14.21 | benJIman | CDATA :) |
| 23:14.24 | Half-Left | MS just killed that one good |
| 23:14.36 | aseigo | Half-Left: doubtful |
| 23:14.43 | benJIman | icwiener_: CULA ? |
| 23:15.06 | benJIman | Half-Left: openxml isn't a new thing |
| 23:15.13 | Half-Left | aseigo: Novell and MS has it sorted, it's just a case of how high can Novell jump |
| 23:15.27 | PhilRod | Half-Left: how do you get from "koffice might provide OpenXML support" to "zomglol, OpenXML is going to take over OpenDocument forever!" |
| 23:15.54 | Sho_ | benJIman: Well, it has only recently been put unter the Open Specification Promise and become viable for implementation by open source projects that way, though |
| 23:15.54 | benJIman | Half-Left: Novell arn't changing default away from ODF in their OOo either |
| 23:16.10 | Half-Left | PhilRod: because everyone will use OpenXML, which makes ODF useless |
| 23:16.23 | benJIman | Half-Left: Everyone is still defaulting to ODF |
| 23:16.40 | benJIman | that's like saying everyone will use ODF in MS office, just because MS office supports ODF |
| 23:16.42 | Half-Left | benJIman: I know, what use it ODF if MS office is using openXML? |
| 23:16.48 | Half-Left | is* |
| 23:16.56 | Sho_ | Half-Left: So essentially you're scared if giving users the choice which document format to use? |
| 23:17.00 | Sho_ | *of |
| 23:17.01 | benJIman | same as it was before. |
| 23:17.08 | benJIman | They had the choice before too. |
| 23:17.21 | benJIman | OOo has had .doc filters for years |
| 23:17.43 | Half-Left | Sho_: so they need ANOTHER choice, yer as long as it's MS who cares right? |
| 23:18.10 | benJIman | I fail to see your logic |
| 23:18.14 | PhilRod | there is none |
| 23:18.16 | Sho_ | Half-Left: It's unclear to me what you're trying to say |
| 23:18.16 | Half-Left | bah |
| 23:18.54 | PhilRod | icwiener_: but SEP is from H2G2 by DNA, so it deserves wider usage :-) |
| 23:19.01 | Half-Left | PhilRod: I dont really care, he can shove it |
| 23:19.22 | icwiener_ | PhilRod: Oh, definitely! But I read it in german, so there was no SEP. :) |
| 23:19.40 | PhilRod | neither do I, but you really are making no sense and putting words into others' mouths that they're just not saying |
| 23:20.08 | Half-Left | PhilRod: I dont make sence, you think it's only me saying this? |
| 23:20.16 | Half-Left | sense* |
| 23:20.38 | aseigo | Half-Left: "everyone" uses .doc files ... |
| 23:20.39 | Sho_ | Are you trying to make a quantity-beats-quality argument now? :-) |
| 23:20.49 | aseigo | Half-Left: so that's not particularly a change. |
| 23:20.59 | Half-Left | fine use MS format, good for you, but ODF will get nowhere as a standard format across office apps |
| 23:21.26 | PhilRod | who here said they're going to use OpenXML? |
| 23:21.39 | Half-Left | you'll need to |
| 23:21.46 | aseigo | Half-Left: personally i use ODF. there is no real change of status quo here, though you seem to think there is |
| 23:22.21 | aseigo | Half-Left: right now i get sent tons of .doc files. fast forward a couple years and i'll likely be getting OpenXML files. but these days i also get ODF once in a while. |
| 23:22.50 | aseigo | Half-Left: way more than i used to, and not even just from my co-FOSS-geeks. this is a trend that i don't see being impacted by OpenXML support |
| 23:23.02 | Half-Left | aseigo: Then how is koffice going to get "Interoperability" with MS office? |
| 23:23.07 | aseigo | Half-Left: i do see it being impacted if we (OO.o, Koffice, etc) can't read MS Office formats at all |
| 23:23.18 | Sho_ | Half-Left: In every situation where I might be forced to use OpenXML I would be forced to use .doc formerly, and OpenXML is certainly better than .doc |
| 23:24.05 | Half-Left | so coming from MS has nothing to do with it? |
| 23:24.10 | Sho_ | Half-Left: No |
| 23:24.13 | Half-Left | right |
| 23:24.15 | aseigo | Half-Left: either the MS user will need to have an ODF filter for MS Office or i'll send a PDF, just like happens today =) |
| 23:24.30 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Note that Microsoft is actively funding development of an Office plugin that lets Office read and write OpenDocument files, btw |
| 23:24.33 | benJIman | MS already have an ODF filter for office. |
| 23:24.37 | Half-Left | so you want MS when it siuts you? |
| 23:24.41 | Half-Left | suits* |
| 23:24.46 | aseigo | benJIman: it's still not a default component, correct? |
| 23:24.51 | Sho_ | Half-Left: So what I'm going to in the future is to happily use ODF and tell Office users to get that plugin that Microsoft has graciously developed :-) |
| 23:24.59 | benJIman | aseigo: by the way you might want to consider exporting your presentations in something other than koffice, the kerning is awful. |
| 23:25.09 | aseigo | Half-Left: no. but i want to be able to work with MS when i have to. just like being able to see a windows file server. |
| 23:25.10 | benJIman | aseigo: yeah it was released after the latest office, it's downloadable |
| 23:25.24 | aseigo | Half-Left: i'd rather be using a Linux server, but when i'm in someone else's office, it's pretty invaluable as a feature |
| 23:25.55 | aseigo | benJIman: i exported the last couple to PDF. |
| 23:26.11 | aseigo | benJIman: problematically, the ODF presentation file formats are not complete |
| 23:26.17 | benJIman | aseigo: http://aseigo.bddf.ca/dms/264/342_KDE4_and_you.pdf looks like it was exported from koffice |
| 23:26.26 | Half-Left | aseigo: So is MS going to change there protocols so we will not need samba, yes their "Open" protocols |
| 23:26.32 | aseigo | benJIman: impress and kpresenter have their own ideas of what ODF presentations are ;) |
| 23:26.56 | Half-Left | dream on :p |
| 23:26.58 | benJIman | aseigo: the kerning in the pdf output is terrible though. |
| 23:27.09 | benJIman | if you open in OOo and export from there it will look much better. |
| 23:27.23 | aseigo | Half-Left: of course not. but it lets us have linux clients and servers in a mixed environment. |
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| 23:27.25 | aseigo | Half-Left: without that we'd have a zero chance of penetration in most places |
| 23:27.44 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Actually Samba was superceded by CIFS, a specification for which was sent to the IETF iirc |
| 23:27.50 | Half-Left | aseigo: Yes, on MS say so, not the other way around |
| 23:27.52 | aseigo | Half-Left: i've been around a few places where the servers were replaced with samba servers and later the clients with linux |
| 23:28.09 | aseigo | Half-Left: do i care if i'm using free software? |
| 23:28.22 | aseigo | benJIman: ah, yeah, that does suck. |
| 23:28.39 | Half-Left | do you care if it's MS that made it and it uses MS formats? |
| 23:28.50 | aseigo | benJIman: if i could rely on interop between impress and kpresenter i might have a chance. unfortunately no go right now. |
| 23:28.56 | Half-Left | what about our own? |
| 23:29.01 | aseigo | Half-Left: i care if it means i can't use free software, yes |
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| 23:29.13 | benJIman | Half-Left: being made by MS is not a problem , its openness may be a problem, MS can make unencumbered stuff if they want, MS research even produce some Free software. |
| 23:29.34 | Sho_ | Half-Left: If MS makes free software I have no problem with it coming from MS |
| 23:29.44 | Half-Left | benJIman: only when it suits them or gives them a advatage |
| 23:29.59 | benJIman | Half-Left: and? that's the same for every company working on Free software. |
| 23:30.13 | Half-Left | MS free software, dont make me laugh |
| 23:30.21 | aseigo | Half-Left: as for "our own" the way that we get "our own" (whatever that means, exactly, given that MS is involved with all sorts of open standards alongside "us") by having enough market share to matter |
| 23:30.23 | benJIman | Half-Left: they do make some |
| 23:30.27 | AlexElliott | Free, yes, they have quite a few |
| 23:30.27 | Half-Left | like? |
| 23:30.36 | aseigo | Half-Left: the msi installer stuff |
| 23:30.46 | AlexElliott | Their C++ dev suite (the express is free) |
| 23:31.02 | benJIman | AlexElliott: err it's not free as in speech |
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| 23:31.04 | Half-Left | Free software, not free software as in OSS software |
| 23:31.07 | benJIman | f# and ironpython are though |
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| 23:31.26 | benJIman | MS's least restrictive community licence is GPL compatable |
| 23:31.30 | AlexElliott | That was the assumption I made, yes |
| 23:31.35 | Half-Left | aseigo: then why dont wine work with all MSI installers? |
| 23:31.36 | aseigo | AlexElliott: libre, not gratis |
| 23:32.09 | aseigo | Half-Left: dunno. i don't use it. has nothing to do with it being open source, however. one could ask why some Free software doesn't work on freebsd for that matter |
| 23:32.16 | aseigo | portability is orthoganal to freeness |
| 23:32.16 | AlexElliott | Free is a fuzzy word ;) |
| 23:32.24 | aseigo | AlexElliott: only in english |
| 23:32.37 | Sho_ | Half-Left: wine is writing their own MSI implementation which is is a work in progress |
| 23:32.39 | AlexElliott | And that is the language we are using |
| 23:32.53 | Half-Left | aseigo: it's opensource, i'm sure they can work it out :p |
| 23:33.00 | Sho_ | Half-Left: If you look over their changelogs, you'll see many MSI bugfixes in every release |
| 23:33.07 | aseigo | they == you ;) |
| 23:33.12 | AlexElliott | If I had wanted to say that it was in another language, then I would have done so |
| 23:33.14 | benJIman | It's funny how many people assume you mean gratis when you say free, even though nearly all the dictionary definitions of Free are about freedom |
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| 23:33.26 | Half-Left | Sho_: and break every release |
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| 23:33.28 | aseigo | benJIman: it's a reflection of our consumer society |
| 23:33.42 | benJIman | http://www.answers.com/free&r=67 |
| 23:33.43 | *** part/#kde fungos (n=fungos@201.47.23.86.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 23:33.45 | benJIman | Perhaps |
| 23:33.51 | AlexElliott | I would argue that once it's in heavy use it's at least as valid a definition as any other |
| 23:34.08 | Sho_ | Half-Left: In any case, because it's free software, the only thing you can personally do to prevent KOffice from hypothetically adding OpenXML support in the future is not work on it - and that's how it should be ;) |
| 23:34.16 | AlexElliott | Whether it's the original definition or not is irrelevant |
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| 23:34.26 | aseigo | AlexElliott: it's not about validity of definition, it's about appropriate definition for the context |
| 23:34.32 | Half-Left | benJIman: So giving away Vista and Office 2007 is the same as say, Linux distro? |
| 23:34.44 | benJIman | Half-Left: I said nothing of the sort. |
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| 23:35.04 | Half-Left | I know you didnot, i'm asking the question |
| 23:35.14 | AlexElliott | As I read it both would have fit. But then I wasn't here for the beginning of this conversation |
| 23:35.14 | aseigo | AlexElliott: like saying "i see a hat stand over there" ... yes, "stand" could mean "to stand on one's feet" but that would be silly, no? |
| 23:35.17 | benJIman | If they released them as Free as in freely modifiable software then yes it would. |
| 23:35.32 | benJIman | But that's not going to happen any time soon. |
| 23:35.35 | Half-Left | benJIman: so thats a no then |
| 23:35.50 | AlexElliott | But not much like the situation here because both would have fit with the statements I read. |
| 23:35.54 | benJIman | Half-Left: As I said, they do create and distribute some Free software |
| 23:35.55 | aseigo | AlexElliott: in the discussion of open source software, free is generally meant as "libre" ... just as "stand", in terms of "hats", is generally meant in as "a thing you put your hats on" |
| 23:36.05 | AlexElliott | It's hard to determine which you mean in text-based conversation |
| 23:36.06 | benJIman | Which I'm quite happy to utilise. |
| 23:36.29 | AlexElliott | If you like |
| 23:36.53 | Half-Left | benJIman: And like I said, only to get a competitive advantage, why people have not learn this by now after 15 years is beyond me |
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| 23:37.16 | benJIman | Half-Left: The only thing any company does anything is for a competitive advantage. |
| 23:37.32 | benJIman | That is not a problem |
| 23:37.38 | Half-Left | benJIman: few do it like MS do |
| 23:38.00 | Sho_ | I think it's very important to realize that large corporations are *not* monolithic entities. Often times, they do have a sizable number of employees that sympathize with free software's cause. By seeking out and embracing their efforts and giving positive feedback, they increase their standing within the corporation, and can help bring about an internal cultural shift. Intel for example is a company that has gotten better and better at working with |
| 23:38.01 | Sho_ | open source after hiring the right people. |
| 23:38.39 | Sho_ | So I think the few times that Microsoft does get something right, it's a good idea to recognize it |
| 23:39.03 | Half-Left | benJIman: thats why the EU are after them, thats why the U.S government tried to split them up |
| 23:39.17 | Half-Left | Sho_: sure |
| 23:39.29 | benJIman | Half-Left: that's for anti-competitive behaviour, Free software can't be anticompetitive by nature. |
| 23:40.04 | Half-Left | and thats why they dont use it, go read what MS said about Linux and opensource |
| 23:40.32 | benJIman | Half-Left: they do distribute some Free software. |
| 23:40.51 | aseigo | Half-Left: i completely agree that we can't trust MS cart blanche. |
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| 23:41.03 | aseigo | Half-Left: and vice versa. we need to be able to pick which from which. |
| 23:41.13 | aseigo | ditto for ibm, novell, sun, etc... |
| 23:41.27 | benJIman | Any company is primarily about making profit. |
| 23:41.27 | aseigo | it's a time of change and there's lots of schizophrenic behaviour out there |
| 23:41.43 | Half-Left | then go read what Steve MS corp said just after Novell/MS deal :p |
| 23:41.47 | aseigo | benJIman: well, that's the only safe assumption, yes. there are companies that defy that, but it's not safe to assume so |
| 23:42.05 | aseigo | Half-Left: i have, and i'm deeply unimpressed (and unsurprised) and think novell made a huge mistake |
| 23:42.07 | Half-Left | aseigo: very wisely yes |
| 23:43.27 | Half-Left | aseigo: I talked about that to much here, thats why a child here ignores me :p |
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| 23:44.13 | Sho_ | (sigh.) |
| 23:44.30 | benJIman | Half-Left: did you read http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/211314/fe5f4a6062b297f2/ ? |
| 23:45.13 | Half-Left | Sho_: I'm not the only one then, should Rezen ignor him? :p |
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| 23:46.04 | Half-Left | benJIman: Is it true that in OpenSUSE apache is broken? |
| 23:46.22 | benJIman | no |
| 23:46.28 | Half-Left | you sure? |
| 23:46.33 | Sho_ | Half-Left: (a) Unlike you, aseigo didn't troll with unqualified statements, (b) you were told at the time by multiple persons that shared your general sentiments (including me) that you were trolling, (c) you still don't know when to drop it |
| 23:46.47 | benJIman | Half-Left: I use it, what do you mean? |
| 23:47.06 | Half-Left | Sho_: I didnot troll so |
| 23:47.54 | Half-Left | Sho_: using the ignore is childish |
| 23:48.47 | Sho_ | Half-Left: So is getting overly excited when someone shares your opinion and bringing up and old fight again |
| 23:48.49 | Sho_ | *an |
| 23:48.55 | Half-Left | benJIman: I was told apache package was broken in OpenSUSE, they tried to getting working for deployment on there server |
| 23:49.05 | benJIman | their |
| 23:49.20 | benJIman | And no, apache works fine on opensuse |
| 23:49.24 | Half-Left | SUSE what you pay for it's not broken |
| 23:49.37 | benJIman | you can purchase opensuse too |
| 23:49.46 | benJIman | It's not broken on any version. |
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| 23:50.42 | Half-Left | benJIman: well, I'll get him in if I see him just to show i'm not trolling |
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| 23:51.53 | Half-Left | Sho_: well, whats wrong with that?, my opinion is mine, dont make it wrong |
| 23:52.45 | LiquidNerd | technically speaking, an opinion can be wrong |
| 23:53.03 | LiquidNerd | if your opinion was 2+2 = 7, then it's wrong |
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| 23:53.43 | Half-Left | Sho_: Sorry but if he wanted to be a child and ignore me because he don't share it then he can go cry somewhere else |
| 23:53.49 | benJIman | http://www.uwcs.co.uk/services/irc/quotes/7608 |
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| 23:55.56 | Half-Left | benJIman: don't patronize me |
| 23:56.59 | Sho_ | Half-Left: I don't care whether Renze ignores you or not, that's his decision, what I do care about is whether your conflict is being brought up in here again and again by you, which I don't want to see. |
| 23:57.45 | Half-Left | Sho_: I asked if OpenXML was going to be in koffice |
| 23:59.32 | Sho_ | Half-Left: That's not what I take offense to. What prompted my "(sigh.)" was your little "oooh, someone popular thinks the Novell/MS deal was unwise as well, that's -the- opportunity to bring up again how stupid Renze is for ignoring me because he didn't like how I went about voicing that opinion" moment. Just drop it, please. EOD. |
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| 23:59.51 | Half-Left | Sho_: If people cannot see whats happening around them then thats there narrow minded fault, people dont see the bigger picture or refuse to |
