| 00:00.02 | tbac | it seems there are some real differences between 3 and 4 |
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| 00:00.18 | Sho_ | Lots of large-scale rewrites, in fact |
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| 00:00.40 | tbac | kde is still very much focused on coolness, IMHO, but it got a looooot better |
| 00:01.07 | tbac | i'm not interested in coolness, that much should be clear now :-) |
| 00:01.26 | Sho_ | I don't think I've met any KDE developer who had "coolness" on his mind, tbh :-) |
| 00:02.07 | tbac | by "coolness" i solely mean the apparance of the desktopp |
| 00:02.09 | tbac | -p |
| 00:02.16 | tbac | +e |
| 00:02.28 | tbac | argh, can't spell anymore |
| 00:02.58 | Sho_ | I don't think that KDE development is appearance-focussed, either |
| 00:03.15 | tbac | it ********* is |
| 00:03.17 | Sho_ | I mean, we certainly do have artists working on it today (and thankfully so) |
| 00:03.35 | tbac | why else would the theme be changed with every release??? |
| 00:03.48 | tbac | sorry... the DEFAULT theme |
| 00:04.20 | Sho_ | It doesn't change every release, actually :) KDE 4 has made four releases so far, in that time there has been one default widget style and two default Plasma themes |
| 00:04.28 | Sho_ | And you know, that's mostly one guy doing the theme stuff |
| 00:04.38 | Sho_ | err, five releases actually |
| 00:04.46 | tbac | so be it... i don't care |
| 00:05.03 | tbac | IMHO if one thing works well, keep it that way |
| 00:05.37 | tbac | that is just as true for a theme |
| 00:05.44 | Sho_ | The Plasma theme was changed due to negative feedback over the previous one |
| 00:07.08 | tbac | i can't comment on the kde part. my perception is that gnome had its more or less same theme for AGES and kde changes its default theme very often |
| 00:07.48 | Sho_ | The default widget style and icon set has been unchanged from KDE 4.0-4.5 |
| 00:08.12 | Sho_ | The Plasma theme was changed in 4.2 due to negative feedback about the previous one |
| 00:08.26 | Sho_ | I can't say what distros who package us do, but we don't change things that often :) |
| 00:09.34 | tbac | keramik, plastic oxygene |
| 00:10.08 | Sho_ | Keramik and Plastik were in the KDE2/3 time frame |
| 00:10.20 | tbac | i know |
| 00:10.37 | tbac | what a difference does it make? |
| 00:11.10 | Sho_ | Different toolkits, for one |
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| 00:11.18 | tbac | kde4 changed a lot (maaaany things under the hood i understand), but does it need to change the looks? |
| 00:11.25 | Sho_ | Qt 3 and Qt 4 aren't exactly "change a few lines and it runs" |
| 00:11.56 | tbac | theme-wise i'd guess it doesn't make a difference |
| 00:12.06 | Sho_ | Then you'd guess wrong :) |
| 00:12.29 | tbac | but i can switch to the "old" window decorations quite easily |
| 00:12.45 | tbac | so i guess it's not impossible to implement |
| 00:13.03 | Sho_ | That's a somewhat different matter in that the decoration painting is done by kwin |
| 00:13.57 | Sho_ | In any case, yes, we could have written a new widget style that emulated the look of the Plastik widget style in KDE 3 (and in fact Trolltech did that with "Plastique", though they did it badly), but the people who showed up to write the new widget style didn't want to do that but something different that took advantage of Qt 4's new abilities |
| 00:13.57 | tbac | you had the toolkit/widgets in mind? |
| 00:14.15 | Sho_ | I was talking about the toolkit, yes |
| 00:14.26 | tbac | ah, ok |
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| 00:15.00 | tbac | maybe it's just trolltech's fault then... the constant change? |
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| 00:15.06 | Sho_ | And actually, the old window decorations you can chose in KDE 4 are essentially rewrites, too |
| 00:15.17 | pinotree | wonders what's the final point of the discussion |
| 00:15.27 | Sho_ | Well, not constant change, but Qt 3 -> 4 was a major change, yes |
| 00:15.28 | tbac | pinotree: there is none :-) |
| 00:15.41 | tbac | Sho_: so was qt 2 -> 3 |
| 00:15.55 | Sho_ | tbac: I guess I prefer that to the stagnating GTK+, however |
| 00:16.25 | tbac | Sho_: my point is still: i don't care about new features, please try to implement them in a backward compatible way... that includes the user experience |
| 00:16.51 | tbac | Sho_: and i don't mean to address you but developers in general |
| 00:16.51 | pinotree | aha, so you had a point... which is actually too generic to say anything about it |
| 00:17.21 | Sho_ | tbac: Change is good :) |
| 00:17.22 | tbac | pinotree: does every discussion has to have a point? |
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| 00:18.25 | pinotree | why shouldn't then, especially some of the nonsense questions by you? |
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| 00:18.57 | tbac | Sho_: you still couldn't convince me... i don't see how the *looks* of a toolkit need to be affected by the underlying changes of the functionality the toolkit provides |
| 00:19.18 | Sho_ | tbac: You misunderstood my point, then |
| 00:19.36 | Sho_ | tbac: The toolkit change meant the widget style had to be rewritten |
| 00:19.40 | tbac | pinotree: "nonsense"? |
| 00:19.44 | pinotree | yup |
| 00:19.52 | Sho_ | tbac: At that point, you can make your rewrite either emulate the old stuff, or you can use a new design |
| 00:20.09 | tbac | Sho_: i get that |
| 00:20.11 | Sho_ | tbac: The people who showed up to do the work to make the rewrite preferred to do a new design (which makes use of new capabilities ofthe toolkit) |
| 00:20.25 | tbac | Sho_: the question is rather, why was the change necessary |
| 00:20.44 | tbac | Sho_: because trolltech make you so |
| 00:21.29 | Sho_ | tbac: Yes, but it was worth it |
| 00:21.31 | tbac | pinotree: is that all of your explanation of why my questions are nonsense? |
| 00:21.51 | Sho_ | tbac: Writing the Oxygen theme would have been nigh on impossible in Qt 3, for example |
| 00:22.03 | pinotree | given, as also Sho_ told you, you seem to misunderstand also what he's been telling you, yes |
| 00:22.24 | pinotree | basically all you want is your kde2 look? |
| 00:23.00 | tbac | noooo... i never used kde... not 1, not 2, not 3, and currently still(?) not using kde4 |
| 00:23.10 | tbac | i just want to understand why these changes |
| 00:23.22 | tbac | and Sho_ does a good job of explaining it |
| 00:23.28 | pinotree | becuase, most of the times, they are needed |
| 00:23.59 | tbac | i do *not* find this discussion to be pointless and i'm gratedul Sho_ answers in the way he does |
| 00:24.37 | pinotree | changing is time- and job- consuming, so doing that would be silly without real needs for them, which recent software versions most of the time provide |
| 00:25.06 | pinotree | this is generally how things work in software development, be it open or closed |
| 00:25.45 | pinotree | when you change to what, and why you do that, depends on the various cases, of course |
| 00:25.45 | cleary_ | it also comes down to priority allocated by whoever controls the developer resources - open source != democracy |
| 00:25.50 | tbac | pinotree: i, as a consumer, may not want big changes, so they may not necessarily are *needed* |
| 00:26.19 | Sho_ | tbac: If you want a simplified concrete example: In Qt 3, every widget (a widget being things like a button or a scrollbar, for example) occupies a certain rectangular space, and these rectangles are mutually exclusive in the sense that if you let two overlap the one on top won't let you see through to the one below, even if the top one has translucent parts. The same is true for GTK+, actually. In Qt 4, that is no longer the case, rather widgets are properly composited |
| 00:26.21 | Sho_ | on top of each other, so they inherit the background up the stack, etc. |
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| 00:26.53 | pinotree | tbac: if you have version 2.1 of your application, and updating you get version 2.2 which works the same but internally it is totally rewritten, what does it care to you? |
| 00:27.37 | Sho_ | tbac: This allows for things you couldn't easily do before without mad, inefficient hacks, like smooth rounded corners of UI elements, nice hover and focus decorations, etc. |
| 00:27.50 | tbac | pinotree: i'd love that. it's the exact opposite feeling i have with kde. but please don't take this too serius, i'm not even a kde user |
| 00:28.02 | tbac | Sho_: thx for the explanation |
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| 00:28.33 | pinotree | tbac: so why are you getting wet when there's no cloud in the sky? |
| 00:28.35 | tbac | ppl, please don't take my comments as an insult. i REAAAAAALLLY appreciate what kde folks have done |
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| 00:29.45 | tbac | pinotree: sorry to disappoint you but i'm *not* out for a flamewar... this discussion started somehow and may not have a POINT... so what? |
| 00:30.08 | pinotree | i'm not doing a flamewar, i'm just asking you simple questions |
| 00:30.24 | Sho_ | tbac: In any case, KDE development really isn't particularly appearance-focussed. We certainly have people who enjoy working on appearance stuff (and personally, I'm happy that we do), but most of the large-scale rewrites we did in KDE 4 was to make the UI more flexible, make things more consistent, foster more code-reuse, etc. |
| 00:30.30 | TommyThaGunn | relax guys it will be ok |
| 00:30.53 | pinotree | you are kind of over-worrying yourself when you didn't have even tried anything... |
| 00:31.03 | pinotree | kde doesn't bite :) |
| 00:31.20 | Sho_ | tbac: For example, let's take Plasma |
| 00:32.12 | Sho_ | tbac: In KDE 2/3, our desktop shell worked like this: We had a program called kdesktop that painted the desktop surface and implemented a file manager-like icon view on it. Then we had a program called kicker that painted panels. |
| 00:32.30 | Sho_ | tbac: The panel had a taskbar, a systray, a menu, stuff like that |
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| 00:33.48 | TommyThaGunn | Did you guys see what happened to bill gates? |
| 00:33.50 | Sho_ | tbac: But over the years people wanted to put more things on their panels and desktop, so both things developed entirely unrelated extensibility schemes. The panel got a plugin system by which you could write new items users could place on them. For desktop, a hacky app called "SuperKaramba" was developed that let you place widgets on the desktop (in truth they were separate windows floating above it). |
| 00:34.09 | Sho_ | tbac: It was all pretty hacky in the end, and it was inconsistent and meant a lot of code duplication |
| 00:34.26 | Sho_ | tbac: So powered with hindsight, we threw it away and started over, and Plasma now works like this: |
| 00:34.33 | TommyThaGunn | He got shot dowwwn |
| 00:34.38 | TommyThaGunn | by a midget |
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| 00:34.58 | tbac | Sho_: i'm so grateful that you take me serious. i know that kde is really superior in the technology sense. it always was IMHO. my complaints were only about the other thigs i mentioned |
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| 00:35.42 | Mike | you did you here |
| 00:35.42 | pinotree | bonowantbiddy: you have the chance of exiting yourself |
| 00:35.54 | Sho_ | tbac: Plasma is basically a canvas you can place objects on that are called "plasmoids". There are two primary types of plasmoids, regular plasmoids and containments. A containment is a plasmoid that can house other plasmoids. The desktop surface is a containment, as are panels. Things like the taskbar are regular plasmoids. So now you have panels and desktop using the same extensibility scheme, in that new plasmoids - and containments - can be plugged into this at any |
| 00:35.55 | bonowantbiddy | what? |
| 00:35.56 | Sho_ | time. |
| 00:36.11 | Guest78132 | I got harry nuts on your shoulder |
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| 00:36.54 | tbac | Sho_: does a plasmoid know where it resides (desktop or taskbar?) |
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| 00:37.21 | tbac | Sho_: sorry... "taskbar" -> "panel" |
| 00:37.36 | Sho_ | tbac: What we also did is to separate data engines and visualizations into separate types of plugins. Plasmoids are visualizations, but the data they visualize is coming from separate plugins. For example, there is a data engine to provide time and date information, which is used by the clock plasmoid that's on the panel by default. But different plasmoids can reuse the same data engine. In the old kicker plugins, there was no such distinction, and thus new panel items |
| 00:37.38 | Sho_ | used to be monolithic codebases that duplicated a lot of code wiht other, similar items. |
| 00:38.14 | tbac | Sho_: yeah, saw that, great design decision |
| 00:39.07 | Sho_ | tbac: An interesting example of what this system makes possible is the "Folder View" plasmoid. Folder View is a plasmoid that shows a file system location in a file manager-like manner. You can place it on the desktop surface. As many times as you want, showing different locations. You can also place it in the panel, then it becomes an icon that opens a popup showing the folder. But you can also use "Folder View" as the desktop containment itself, then you have the |
| 00:39.08 | Sho_ | regular old kdesktop-like icon desktop. And you can even place more Folder Views on top of that. |
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| 00:40.02 | Sho_ | tbac: Whats more, because *everything* about this is plugins, we can make completely different UIs for netbooks and even cellphones using different building blocks without throwing away the core library and architecture |
| 00:40.46 | Sho_ | tbac: We did also make things prettier on the way by putting in a theming system so that Plasmoids would look consistent and made it use modern SVG graphics, and by putting in an animation API Plasmoids can use, but that is icing on the cake, it wasn't the prime motivator |
| 00:40.51 | pinotree | tbac: (just in case: i was being serious, so would be nice a reply to my questions...) |
| 00:41.16 | Sho_ | tbac: Another advantage of the visualization/data engine split is that hardcode coders can focus on writing nifty data engines and more UI/visual people on writing nifty visualizations |
| 00:41.45 | Sho_ | tbac: So the motivation for this was to clean away old hacks, make something that is more consistent and afficient, and allows us to bring KDE to different kind of devices. Appearance was just a sub-goal. |
| 00:42.06 | Sho_ | tbac: And there's nothing else like it in the world. Certainly not in Gnome ;) |
| 00:42.11 | tbac | Sho_: and the fact that the UI can be written with JS while the "backend" is written in C |
| 00:42.58 | tbac | Sho_: please scroll back if you doubt my opinion about KDE's technical advantages... |
| 00:43.45 | Sho_ | tbac: Yeah, a plasmoid is informed about its constraints (desktop, panel, etc.) |
| 00:43.47 | tbac | Sho_: i'm quite convinced that KDE has been "nicer" from the technical perspective for AGES |
| 00:45.13 | Sho_ | tbac: It's not just about technology, however, it's also about the flexibility this offers to the user in terms of how to set up his UI and what to have in it |
| 00:45.38 | tbac | pinotree: i don't see any questions of you i didn't answer. i did not "answer" to your last statements because i think it would help to advance the discussion. you are out for a fight and i'm not. |
| 00:45.40 | Sho_ | Yeah, the architecture is nifty, but the consequence is that it lets you do things you simply can't do anywhere else |
| 00:46.04 | Sho_ | So to say that we just care about appearance is unfair, imho :-) |
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| 00:46.36 | pinotree | tbac: and again, i'm not "out for a fight", just want to understand what apparently makes you "over-worried" about even touching kde |
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| 00:48.11 | tbac | Sho_: shouldn't have sounded like that. it appeared to me that kde is not just technology driven (which is good IMHO, at least for me), but also appearance-driven. i simply accept now that the latter is not the case. :-) |
| 00:50.25 | Sho_ | tbac: We're more appearance-driven now than we were in the past in the sense that we've finally managed to attract talent that is not just coders. We made a high-quality free icon set for KDE 4 and its applications that by now contains hundreds and hundreds of icons in a consistent style and quality, something that is also singular in the world. We wouldn't have been able to do that ten years ago because we simply didn't have the people for that. (Not to knock on the |
| 00:50.27 | Sho_ | folks who did the icons back then, some of that stuff was pretty awesome too - but the Oxygen icon set upped the ante in terms of quality and scope.) |
| 00:50.55 | tbac | pinotree: i did try kde several times. it is a very good desktop environment, a f******g nice community and all is really well. honestly. it's just that i personally were not quite happy with it. but i didn't have to as i never used it. now i'm considering using parts of kde, that's why i showd up here and asked strange quesions. :-) |
| 00:51.05 | Sho_ | tbac: And frankly as someone who works in computer graphic by day, I appreciate that it's prettier now, and there are users who we'd like to have who're more likely to look at it now than then years ago when it was much uglier ;) |
| 00:51.36 | pinotree | tbac: which parts were you not happy with? |
| 00:51.49 | Sho_ | tbac: But the takeaway is that appearance hasn't displaced other concerns, just that we can finally afford to also care about appearance more because the manpower for that exists now |
| 00:52.41 | tbac | my perception has been that kde's theme and icons changed with almos every point release. i guess this is not the case. |
| 00:53.42 | tbac | i guess that perception came from the fact that distributions had themes packages like "glass" or something.. dunno anymore |
| 00:54.08 | tbac | icon themes that were graphically beautiful but otherwise weak |
| 00:54.16 | Sho_ | tbac: Yeah, I remember Kubuntu switched KDE 3 from Plastik to a fork called Polyester and then to Domino and then to Oxygen with KDE 4 |
| 00:54.26 | Sho_ | tbac: A lot of that stuff is distroy trying to differenciate themselves ⦠|
| 00:54.44 | pinotree | tbac: note that this isn't an issue at all, as you can change many aspects of the user interface (icons, widget styles, windecos, etc) and pick your favourite ones which would stick along version updates |
| 00:54.52 | Sho_ | tbac: That is also true for Gnome, for example Ubuntu uses a different theme than upstream Gnome, and Fedora uses its own Gnome the called "Nudoka" or so as well |
| 00:55.04 | Sho_ | s/Gnome the/Gnome theme/ |
| 00:55.04 | tbac | i guess pretty much boils down to 3rd party "coolness" |
| 00:55.42 | pinotree | or most really to what is "coolness" for you (where "you" == "each user") |
| 00:55.52 | tbac | pinotree: a few years ago i wasn't happy at all with any of the standard themes though |
| 00:56.31 | pinotree | not a reason to not use something, imho, especially when said themes are highly customizable |
| 00:57.06 | tbac | pinotree: a good example would be that icon theme i have in mind right now. i think it was semi-standard in early(?) kde3 days |
| 00:57.22 | tbac | pinotree: some glassy theme with lots of blue |
| 00:57.27 | Sho_ | Crystal SVG |
| 00:57.27 | pinotree | crystal |
| 00:57.34 | Sho_ | Yeah, we threw that out |
| 00:57.35 | tbac | pinotree: yep, i think that was it |
| 00:57.47 | tbac | pinotree: that was a pile of crap |
| 00:57.55 | Sho_ | wasn't a fan of Crystal either, used Nuvola back in KDE 3 |
| 00:57.58 | tbac | pinotree: BEAUTIFUL crap |
| 00:58.31 | tbac | pinotree: but if icons are just consistent with a theme and not distuingishable... that doesn't help a user |
| 00:59.23 | Sho_ | tbac: Well we knew that as well which is why we made the Oxygen icon set for KDE 4 |
| 00:59.35 | Sho_ | Which was a lot more consciously designed |
| 00:59.51 | Sho_ | Metaphors, use of color, detail level, stuff like that |
| 01:00.01 | tbac | pinotree: and back then kde apps appeared to me a lot less user friendly in a sense that in some apps about 10 of these beautiful but not distinguishable icons were aligned horizontally on a toolbar without any description text |
| 01:00.16 | Sho_ | We also cleaned out the app toolbars in KDE 4 |
| 01:00.45 | Sho_ | As you can see, earlier you complained about changes, but it seems the changes we made cater to your wishes ;) |
| 01:00.45 | tbac | Sho_: as said, i see a lot of stuff changed, and i like it! :-) |
| 01:01.34 | tbac | Sho_: i complained about unecessary changes, but it's hard to make out the difference to actual approvements of course |
| 01:01.55 | tbac | Sho_: i mean, everybody has a different opinion... |
| 01:02.24 | tbac | pinotree: anyway, i hope you see by now that i'm not trying to bash kde... you do right? |
| 01:02.40 | Sho_ | tbac: Hopefully we didn't make a lot of unnecessary changes ;) But even then, do keep in mind that we essentially had to rewrite many things due to Qt 4, and in some cases an effective change vs. 3 isn't about making the decision to change but rather not having the resources to recreate |
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| 01:03.42 | tbac | Sho_: i get that. it is still somewhat of a question of policy, if you see the big picture. |
| 01:04.22 | tbac | Sho_: you as the kde folks don't have 100% influence on the changes, as QT can change without your consent |
| 01:05.06 | tbac | Sho_: whereas if you had control over the "whole thing", things *could* be different. take for example the gnu emacs project |
| 01:05.18 | tbac | Sho_: anyway, i'm not complaining |
| 01:05.34 | tbac | Sho_: thank you VERY MUCH for taking the time to explain things to me |
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| 01:09.12 | Sho_ | tbac: Well a lot of the changes Qt 4 did were for the better in the long run, imho. And overall we can't complain too much - the Gnome folks might have control over the full stack, but IMHO GTK+ development has been rather stagnant for years now. |
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| 01:09.37 | Sho_ | tbac: I'd rather deal with a partner than lose their manpower. |
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| 01:12.01 | tbac | Sho_: i wasn't trying to make a point for either side but rather just wanted to point out this (IMHO) importand difference |
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| 01:12.54 | tbac | anyway.... is it complicated (several k lines of code) to write a layout (window decoration engine) that has no buttons and no titles? |
| 01:13.33 | Sho_ | tbac: Well, Qt is open source, it has public repositories today, and they do take external contributions without requiring copyright assignment. KDE isn't the only stakeholder in Qt, which means we don't get to control it, but from a FOSS perspective, it's fine. |
| 01:13.35 | tbac | i'd love to have windows with just a frame (so that i can see which one has the focus) but i don't really need the titles |
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| 01:14.16 | Sho_ | tbac: It's not that difficult. However, KDE bundles a decoration engine today called Aurorae that can load SVG themes. It might be possible to just make an SVG thme for that. |
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| 01:15.04 | tbac | Sho_: i could live with a workaround that just has 0px buttons and 1px high title fonts... would that work? |
| 01:16.30 | tbac | Sho_: btw. i think it's best if a software is backed by companies *and* easily accessable by the community. it sounds like this is the case now with qt, which is great! |
| 01:17.21 | Sho_ | tbac: A workaround may not even be needed. I haven't made an Aurorae theme myself yet. Have a look at the theme format, I'd say :). |
| 01:17.33 | Sho_ | tbac: Or try to catch mgraesslin in #kwin, he wrote the Aurorae engine |
| 01:17.38 | Sho_ | he's in Germany, timezone-wise |
| 01:17.49 | tbac | Sho_: thx for the tip |
| 01:18.00 | tbac | Sho_: there's even a kwin channel? cool |
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| 01:19.49 | tbac | i'm really curius about kde/kwin fullfilling my needs and i might be back in the next few days/weeks |
| 01:20.05 | tbac | Sho_: thank you sooooo much for your time |
| 01:20.30 | tbac | pinotree: please don't think i'm hostile towards kde, i'm not! |
| 01:20.54 | tbac | cu |
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| 01:23.11 | Sho_ | I'll watch House and hop into bed, g'night ⦠|
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| 02:34.53 | hays | im just testing bacon something |
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| 02:38.50 | therealpxc | I just read that Qt recently decided to basically drop Phonon (March 1), and I was wondering what this means and what KDE is doing as a result. |
| 02:39.42 | hays | that was a quick decision to bacon Phonon. wasn't it just bacon bacon recently? |
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| 02:41.27 | therealpxc | -_- |
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| 02:44.47 | rrix | kicks hays |
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| 03:29.23 | troy | rrix: wow, you can kick w/o op :P |
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| 03:56.32 | jseabold | Does anyone know where I can add a path so it's recognized by krunner? I've done it once before, but I've forgotten. KDE 4.4.2. |
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| 04:19.23 | rrix | troy: Yeah, I can :) |
| 04:19.31 | rrix | troy: I haz camping pics, uploading them to flickr |
| 04:19.53 | rrix | you should come to the quasi-secret twin channel of kde-devel that shan't be named so i can give you a link ;) |
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| 04:28.11 | troy | rrix: nope - not going there - I lose 4 hours of my life each time I join it :P |
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| 04:29.04 | rrix | D: |
| 04:29.06 | rrix | come baccccck |
| 04:30.08 | rrix | Fine I'll just be offtopic in the support channel |
| 04:30.24 | troy | rrix: it's not like anything is going on in here :P |
| 04:30.35 | troy | jseabold: you're looking to add an executable path? |
| 04:31.03 | troy | jseabold: you might need to modify you PATH environment variable, either in ~/.profile or similar location |
| 04:31.47 | rrix | calls troy |
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| 04:32.08 | troy | rrix: also, in this channel I am king, unless pinotree banishes me with his stick of infinite making-troy-feel-bad |
| 04:32.23 | rrix | Yeah, that's why I'm not pasting the link in here D: |
| 04:32.33 | troy | wonders if he out-karma's pinotree... thinks so |
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| 04:33.01 | rrix | sounds like a challenge |
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| 04:43.20 | jseabold | troy: Thanks. I kept thinking .bashrc but knew this wasn't right. This looks good I just need to restart X. |
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| 05:05.41 | marti1125 | hi |
| 05:08.02 | troy | waves at marti1125, and at the passing tumbleweed |
| 05:08.10 | troy | sure is quiet in here tonight :) |
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| 05:37.59 | rrix | stalks off |
| 05:38.13 | troy | throws a cog at rrix |
| 05:38.23 | rrix | troy: you didn't even let markey say hi. |
| 05:38.25 | rrix | how rude. |
| 05:38.26 | troy | rrix: your summoning spell is weak, and has faded :P |
| 05:38.33 | troy | rrix: I did - elsewhere :) |
| 05:38.35 | rrix | I was gonna compliment your music but :P |
| 05:39.14 | troy | rrix: I blame markey for half of my music tastes anyway :P |
| 05:40.09 | rrix | lol |
| 05:40.22 | rrix | I really should sleep, I feel like I'm about to pass out |
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| 05:47.38 | rrix | troy: and btw, it was only 1:15 of your life that you lost :) |
| 05:47.42 | rrix | goes to bed |
| 05:48.49 | troy | rrix: I want it back! waaah! |
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| 05:52.18 | Rahim | i use mepis 8.5 kde4 and have configured DSL in NetWorkManager applet but when i click on the icon in system tray "DSL" is not there. SO how could i connect with DSL? |
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| 06:14.51 | Krooks | Those plasma widget that can be shown on remote desktop. Can I do it to a Windows machine ? |
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| 06:24.35 | troy | Krooks: well, you'd need plasma on the windows machine - check windows.kde.org |
| 06:24.53 | troy | Krooks: I'd suspect that would be considered rather experimental, if it works at all :) |
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| 06:32.03 | Krooks | troy: thanks. will try |
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| 06:34.28 | troy | Krooks: I did see a live demonstration once of a plasma widget that got sent from a laptop to this guy's phone, which was also running plasma. He could then control the laptop's media player frmo his phone :) |
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| 06:35.39 | Krooks | troy: you saw that on youtube ? |
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| 06:38.15 | troy | Krooks: no, at a kde conference - live :) I held the phone :) |
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| 06:42.38 | Krooks | troy: what phone was it ? N900 ? |
| 06:42.43 | troy | yep |
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| 06:43.44 | troy | Krooks: well, it might have been some other prototype - they that was presenting it worked for Nokia's Brazillian group... |
| 06:44.18 | Krooks | troy: I see. |
| 06:44.47 | troy | Krooks: honestly, any phone that could run Qt on it should be able to run plasma - maybe not quickly, but it should work nonetheless |
| 06:44.55 | pawan_ | Is there any way to restore KDE to default environment |
| 06:44.59 | pawan_ | I lost all the panels |
| 06:45.19 | pawan_ | and what I am seeing now is the blank blue screen with one panel at top right |
| 06:45.45 | troy | pawan_: find the file ~/.kde/share/config/plasma-desktop-appletsrc and rename it |
| 06:45.58 | troy | (on some distros that might be .kde4 instead of .kde |
| 06:46.02 | troy | ) |
| 06:46.33 | pawan_ | troy: I am new to linux and dont know even ABC of it. How to do the above thing? |
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| 06:47.40 | troy | pawan_: hrm - does ALT-F2 work? enter "~/.kde/share/config/" into that dialog (without the quotes) |
| 06:47.51 | pawan_ | group installing gnome saved me , that I am able to access my files through gnome |
| 06:48.07 | pawan_ | but for development i heard that kde is the best option to go with |
| 06:48.07 | troy | pawan_: select the plasma-desktop-appletsrc file there, and rename it |
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| 06:48.54 | troy | pawan_: to each their own :) use whatever makes you comfortable - I know many developers who swear up and down that coding in a terminal is the One True Way (TM) |
| 06:50.47 | troy | pawan_: tip of the day - in linux, the ~ in a directory name is a short form for /home/username where username is, of course, your own username :) |
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| 06:51.09 | troy | pawan_: and welcome to #kde :) |
| 06:51.41 | pawan_ | Hey thanks |
| 06:51.49 | pawan_ | I reached /home/pawan/.kde |
| 06:51.57 | pawan_ | then what to do <I am in gnome> |
| 06:52.09 | pawan_ | :) |
| 06:52.31 | troy | pawan_: what distro? |
| 06:52.40 | troy | is there a folder in there named 'share'? |
| 06:52.40 | pawan_ | fedora 12 |
| 06:52.50 | pawan_ | ya i gone there. |
| 06:52.59 | pawan_ | now I am in /config |
| 06:53.16 | troy | yep - do you have a plasma-desktop-appletsrc file in there? |
| 06:53.36 | pawan_ | ya |
| 06:53.39 | pawan_ | its there. |
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| 06:54.20 | pawan_ | Now what to do , sir? |
| 06:54.38 | troy | hrm - I don't use gnome, so I'm guessing now :) |
| 06:54.46 | troy | try right clicking on it - choose rename |
| 06:54.53 | troy | assuming there's an option to rename :P |
| 06:55.04 | pawan_ | what should I name it... |
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| 06:55.30 | pawan_ | is there a specific way that I should change it so that I can restore it back whenever required. |
| 06:55.41 | troy | pawan_: whatever you want - I'd suggest something like plasma-desktop-appletsrc-old |
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| 06:56.06 | pawan_ | done then? |
| 06:56.08 | pawan_ | :) |
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| 06:56.50 | pawan_ | should I restart the KDE or the system or should I just log out and then log in again in kde |
| 06:57.01 | troy | yeah - log out and log into kde - don't need to restart |
| 06:57.15 | pawan_ | ll come back again sir... |
| 06:59.27 | troy | waits for pawan to rematerialize |
| 06:59.37 | troy | oh know, his transporter signature, it's fading! |
| 06:59.38 | *** join/#kde pawan (~pawan@117.204.168.243) |
| 06:59.49 | troy | ah, phew! |
| 06:59.58 | troy | pawan_: luck? |
| 07:00.08 | pawan_ | troy: thank you sir... |
| 07:00.10 | pawan_ | its working |
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| 07:00.26 | troy | pawan_: your welcome :) |
| 07:00.42 | pawan_ | what I guess now is Kde has created one another restored file for plasma-desktop-**src |
| 07:00.57 | troy | pawan_: right - restored to defaults :) |
| 07:01.08 | troy | pawan_: almost all kde programs keep their settings in a file like that |
| 07:01.21 | troy | pawan_: if something is really broken - that's a good place to start troubleshooting |
| 07:01.36 | troy | pawan_: of course, different program means different file |
| 07:02.10 | pawan_ | hey thanks sir, My kde is restored back to its original settings |
| 07:02.15 | pawan_ | and what i guessed was correct |
| 07:02.27 | pawan_ | one file with the original name was created |
| 07:02.34 | pawan_ | and then i deleted the renamed file |
| 07:02.37 | pawan_ | ;) |
| 07:03.31 | troy | pawan_: anyway - stick around in here if you need more help :) |
| 07:03.45 | troy | pawan_: it's a good place to pick up tips as other people come in with problems |
| 07:04.00 | pawan_ | troy: can you teach me how to connect / configure vnc server on your comp so that your friends can connect to your comp via internet for remote desktop connection. |
| 07:04.50 | troy | pawan_: are your friends using vnc? |
| 07:05.08 | pawan_ | actually they use realvnc on windows and want to connect to my pc using vnc |
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| 07:05.42 | pawan_ | since thats the only way to connect via cross platform , thats the reason I want to learn to connect using vnc |
| 07:05.51 | pawan_ | and configuring my pc for the same |
| 07:06.06 | troy | okay, this question might be better asked in the #fedora channel, as they probably have some vnc server packages ready to use for you |
| 07:06.26 | troy | they might all be asleep right now though - who knows :) |
| 07:07.04 | troy | is neither a vnc user, nor a fedora user, so has no idea :) |
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| 07:08.28 | pawan_ | I joined #fedora |
| 07:08.37 | pawan_ | @troy: thanx a lot |
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| 07:08.46 | pawan_ | @troy: you are linux user only na... |
| 07:08.58 | pawan_ | @troy: which distro you use? |
| 07:09.12 | troy | pawan_: I use slackware - it's a little more hands-on than fedora :) |
| 07:09.39 | troy | pawan_: but back in the day (oh, say 1998), I too joined this channel looking for hepl |
| 07:09.42 | troy | help* even |
| 07:10.01 | pawan_ | 11 years back. |
| 07:10.02 | ghostcube | :D |
| 07:10.11 | pawan_ | oh awesome. |
| 07:10.22 | troy | I ended up learning so much that I started helping others |
| 07:10.40 | troy | then one day I knew enough to actually write some code for KDE |
| 07:10.50 | troy | and so on :) |
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| 07:11.17 | troy | these days I mostly do marketing for kde, but like to hang out in here every once in a while and lend a hand :) |
| 07:12.07 | pawan_ | troy: I am a computer engineering student (second year) from india, I want to have my hands on kde and kernel also gnome programming , whats the best way to start with? |
| 07:12.27 | troy | pawan_: what computer programming languages do you know? |
| 07:13.56 | pawan_ | actually I am in learning process |
| 07:14.08 | pawan_ | I know c++ and java better than any other language |
| 07:14.11 | troy | pawan_: okay, perhaps then, what language(s) are you learning :) |
| 07:14.14 | pawan_ | but still learning stage |
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| 07:14.43 | pawan_ | C started , Python started, --> just some starting lectures from MIT youtube |
| 07:14.48 | troy | okay, so the kernel is written in pure C... Gnome is written in something called ObjectC (C with oop bolted on) |
| 07:15.15 | troy | KDE is C++ (well, mostly C++) |
| 07:15.45 | troy | if you like C++, I'd recommend starting with the Qt tutorials |
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| 07:16.38 | troy | let me see if I can find a link |
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| 07:17.37 | pawan_ | troy: thanks dude , you are doing so much for me. |
| 07:17.37 | troy | http://doc.trolltech.com/4.6/tutorials.html |
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| 07:18.35 | troy | pawan_: you know, I was sitting around with martin konold one day (he being one of the four original members of kde), and he said to me: "if you spend 45 minutes on a person and turn them into a developer, then it was 45 minutes that could not be better spent" :) |
| 07:19.14 | troy | pawan_: there's a programing environment called Qt Creator (not sure if fedora has it installed by default) that should let you get started fairly painlessly |
| 07:19.46 | pawan_ | trou: it doesnt have it by default |
| 07:19.56 | pawan_ | but i installed eclipse and netbeans for the same |
| 07:20.02 | troy | pawan_: or you could use something like Eclipse, if you're more familiar with it :) |
| 07:20.04 | pawan_ | to develop atleast some applications |
| 07:20.16 | troy | there's some C++ plugins for eclipse to make things less java-centric |
| 07:20.38 | pawan_ | ya i installed first c++ eclipse , |
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| 07:21.02 | troy | kde makes a nice IDE called KDevelop, but I always found it to be too steep of a learning curve :) |
| 07:21.19 | pawan_ | ya I installed it using |
| 07:21.29 | pawan_ | yum groupinstall "KDE Software Development" |
| 07:21.50 | pawan_ | What should I do for Qt designer installation |
| 07:22.22 | troy | don't know - ask in #fedora or #fedora-kde |
| 07:22.43 | troy | every distro has their own way of installing things - we try to be pretty distro-neutral in here |
| 07:24.11 | troy | pawan_: if you're interested in hacking on KDE proper - a good place to start is techbase.kde.org - it gives some instruction on setting up a development environment, etc. |
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| 07:24.37 | troy | pawan_: the place to ask for help with development issues is #kde-devel |
| 07:25.20 | troy | pawan_: but I'd strongly suggest starting with the Qt tutorials :) KDE is, in many ways, an extension of Qt. unless you know Qt, you'll not be successful working on KDE itself |
| 07:25.21 | scb | troy: enlightening conversation. thank you. |
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| 07:26.13 | troy | scb: you're welcome :) |
| 07:27.03 | scb | Scrolled all the way up and read the whole thing. It looked interesting when I hop'd in this tab and saw you talking about martin konold. |
| 07:27.56 | scb | Been using linux for like 4 or 5 years, and I still feel I know nothing :) |
| 07:28.02 | scb | Not sure if that's good or bad. |
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| 07:28.41 | scb | I get the crazy looks at my school library though. And I feel warm and fuzzy when I manage to connect to a wireless when other people can't :P. |
| 07:29.00 | pawan_ | troy: actually installed kde software development package can it be useful for me |
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| 07:29.40 | troy | pawan_: not sure what's in that package - but it almost certainly contains a bunch of tools and libraries that you'll find yourself needing at some point :) |
| 07:30.11 | pawan_ | Okies... |
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| 07:31.25 | troy | scb: not every night I get reasonably easy questions, and eager potential kde family members :P |
| 07:31.40 | scb | troy: :) |
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| 07:43.49 | troy | alright guys - time to sleep - 0344h here - ugh |
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| 07:44.46 | tbac | hi. i'm trying to install a plasmoid from this page: http://plasma.kde.org/ via "install widget from local file". i expected it to show up in the list, which did not happen. |
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| 07:45.09 | tbac | how can i find out what's wrong with the package / what exactly fails? i'm on kde 4.3 |
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| 07:45.33 | tbac | 4.3.4 to be more specific |
| 07:45.43 | troy | tbac: you might want to ask in #plasma as well, assuming any of them are awake at this hour |
| 07:46.21 | troy | .oO(zzzZZZ) |
| 07:46.22 | tbac | troy: thx for the tip |
| 07:46.48 | tbac | troy: i meant "hint"... argh |
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| 08:58.11 | tbac | is it possible to start only parts of kde? mostly i'm interested in using kwin and the panel (don't need the kmenu either), that's about it. |
| 08:58.48 | tbac | i don't want to use the file manager, neither the desktop to be managed (no widgets, not even a background picture needed) |
| 09:00.15 | QwertyM | tbac: plasma-desktop is kinda needed to run the panel |
| 09:00.36 | tbac | thought that |
| 09:01.13 | tbac | i guess i won't save too much startup time anyway as probably most of the stuff get's loaded anyway implicitly |
| 09:03.03 | QwertyM | tbac: although you can remove plasma-desktop and still use KDE via KRunner (but no panels, you get the rest) |
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| 09:04.58 | tbac | QwertyM: i'll need the panel (in the long run at least), so that's not an option, but thx |
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| 09:05.56 | tbac | is there a way to tell kwin to ignore a part of the screen for window placement? i.e. to treat some part of the screen as it was a panel? |
| 09:06.38 | tbac | i'd like to use the conky system monitor with kde but i don't want windows to hide it / float above it |
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| 09:13.27 | tbac | hmm, i guess kwin's hypercool customization features are enough... kwin is f*****g great! |
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| 09:15.13 | BluesMurf | now if only it'd start running fast again |
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| 09:18.25 | tbac | BluesMurf: what exactly is slow with it? |
| 09:18.49 | tbac | BluesMurf: i noticed that maximizing a window is ridiculously slow on my system when desktop effects are turned on |
| 09:18.53 | agent|alisonken1 | not using 3d acceleration? |
| 09:18.58 | tbac | :-) |
| 09:19.26 | BluesMurf | tbac: i've had horribly slow kde since upgrading to 4.0.x, after a while it improved, on 4.4 it got dramatically slow again |
| 09:19.34 | BluesMurf | on both nvidia and ati |
| 09:19.45 | BluesMurf | especially konsole is horrible |
| 09:19.58 | BluesMurf | hold on, konsole is mainly slow on nvidia |
| 09:20.00 | tbac | BluesMurf: not just fancy desktop effects stuff? |
| 09:20.09 | BluesMurf | i used same effects on 4.3 |
| 09:20.47 | BluesMurf | i suppose the nvidia driver is still causing most of the problems |
| 09:20.49 | tbac | BluesMurf: hmmm. in that case i'm just glad i don't use desktop effects and don't plan to |
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| 09:39.46 | tbac | is it possible to configure kwin to bring the window to the front when maximizing it? this is the case when maximizing is triggered via mouse, it's not the case for doing so by keyboard however. |
| 09:40.48 | tbac | ooops, sorry that was incorrect |
| 09:41.16 | tbac | forget about maximizing, i meant putting a window to fullscreen mode |
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| 10:31.16 | insertyournamehe | anybody knows, how to access the $date variable inside a KDE filedialog ? |
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| 10:51.11 | Hazel- | what is the system path where the kde audio collection is installed? |
| 10:51.26 | Hazel- | i'm searching for an alarm sample |
| 10:51.30 | pinotree | "kde audio collection"? |
| 10:51.47 | Hazel- | well... the sounds that KDE uses |
| 10:51.53 | Hazel- | the sound files |
| 10:52.00 | pinotree | $prefix_ofkde/share/sounds? |
| 10:53.25 | Hazel- | ok |
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| 11:10.11 | Serpico | hi |
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| 11:10.42 | Serpico | there is a alternative for kde of gparted? |
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| 11:17.28 | pinotree | Serpico: partitionmanager |
| 11:18.17 | Serpico | tnx pinotree |
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| 11:19.28 | kdepepo | heh, when you detach a tab in Konsole, you can later drag it back, nice feature :) |
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| 12:18.53 | Creap | Hi, with the KDE Input Actions, can I send a command to a specific window, which is not activated, somehow? |
| 12:19.14 | Creap | I'd like to be able to do something like Meta-F5 in my text editor and reload the browser window without having to switch to it |
| 12:19.21 | Creap | (dual monitors) |
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| 12:20.52 | miquelsab | well, even with amarok on the system tray, I can switch to the next song with the keyboard |
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| 12:21.11 | miquelsab | i don't know if is this what are you refering |
| 12:21.24 | Creap | yes, but Amarok somehow registers into the Keyboard Shortcuts manager |
| 12:21.32 | Creap | which non-KDE apps doesn't |
| 12:21.44 | Creap | so I need to send "F5" to the browser somehow.. |
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| 12:23.12 | miquelsab | mmm, i don't know how to do it for non-kde apps, sorry ... |
| 12:23.19 | miquelsab | i will try :) |
| 12:24.45 | Creap | the weird thing is that there are examples, one on how to activate KSIRC, but there's no action for it so I can't see how to do it |
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| 12:25.01 | Creap | I'd like to 1) activate the browser, 2) send F5 |
| 12:25.06 | Creap | might try to do some bash scripting |
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| 12:49.41 | nima_ | hi i get an error while try to build a kde style with cmake here is the error : what should i do ? http://dpaste.com/188196/ |
| 12:50.16 | shadeslayer | nima_: youre trying to compile bespin? |
| 12:50.28 | nima_ | shadeslayer, yeah |
| 12:50.35 | shadeslayer | nima_: which distro? |
| 12:50.47 | nima_ | shadeslayer, debian testing |
| 12:51.03 | shadeslayer | nima_: ok um,does debian have apt-get buildep ? |
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| 12:51.30 | shadeslayer | ( im not entirely sure,but i think apt-get us purely ubuntu ) |
| 12:51.36 | shadeslayer | *is |
| 12:51.52 | nima_ | shadeslayer, yeah , i fix that ( i also do not have enough bandwidth to download any packages |
| 12:52.18 | shadeslayer | nima_: well it looks like you are missing packages... |
| 12:52.37 | nima_ | shadeslayer, no it is purely for debian i think |
| 12:52.46 | nima_ | shadeslayer, it was kdesdk-dev |
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| 13:02.42 | nima_ | where does kwin headers live in kde packages |
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| 13:07.37 | annma | kdebase/workspace |
| 13:07.54 | annma | that's from KDE svn, for your distro specifics, please ask your distro channel |
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| 13:52.44 | gancient | hi all, i wanted to enquire about SoK |
| 13:53.08 | gancient | i have sent an email to kde-soc-mentor@kde.org |
| 13:53.14 | gancient | regarding the same |
| 13:53.40 | annma | gancient: please go to #kde-soc |
| 13:54.15 | gancient | annma: ok |
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| 14:01.37 | terran4000 | hey, I manually had to remove a program. Now I'm stuck with the menu item. How do I remove it from the menu? |
| 14:03.02 | pinotree | was it installed system-wide? |
| 14:03.02 | terran4000 | It was an adobe-air application ... so I am pretty sure yeah |
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| 14:03.02 | terran4000 | though not 100% sure |
| 14:03.02 | pinotree | try to find for a related .desktop file for it in /usr/share/applications, for example |
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| 14:04.22 | terran4000 | nope, not there. I remember I removed that file right after I rm'ed the app |
| 14:05.15 | terran4000 | Is there a 'reload' menu button? That maybe might help (dunno)? |
| 14:07.38 | QwertyM | terran4000: ~/.local/share/applications/*.desktop if it was not system wide, check there? |
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| 14:08.42 | terran4000 | hm, nope. not there at all. Must've been system wide then (and I already deleted that file) |
| 14:09.16 | terran4000 | oh well. I'll live with it until I have time to mess around more with it |
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| 14:09.18 | terran4000 | Thanks! |
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| 14:44.37 | tefl0n | hi im trying to find the option to allow alt+tab to show all applications from all workspaces |
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| 15:04.19 | Sho_ | tefl0n: System Settings -> Window Behavior -> Navigate Through Windows -> List Windows: All Desktops |
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| 15:28.04 | Zorael | What could cause the plasma task manager to refer to a running application by the name of its binary (and .desktop file) rather than the full name defined in its .desktop file? (Kubuntu lucid) |
| 15:28.07 | Zorael | See http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/7734/plasmataskmanagerchromi.png |
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| 15:28.53 | annma | Chromium does not respect KWin |
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| 15:28.57 | annma | taht's why |
| 15:29.14 | Zorael | ah, okay |
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| 15:29.24 | annma | it happens only with Chromium, rigth? |
| 15:30.51 | Zorael | It seems that way, OpenOffice.org properly calls itself OpenOffice.org even when grouped, while Chromium falls back to Chromium-browser |
| 15:31.09 | Zorael | (I' |
| 15:31.31 | annma | yes |
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| 15:33.27 | mokoloko | Zorael maybe it will work when you make chromium use your kde's decoration |
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| 15:36.32 | ars1 | how to turn off nepomukserver ? |
| 15:36.36 | ars1 | remote |
| 15:37.58 | annma | killall nepomukserver |
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| 15:39.12 | ars1 | this will kill that process but i dont want to start it again after reboot |
| 15:39.42 | annma | see if you acn stop it in systemsettings* |
| 15:39.51 | annma | see if you can stop it in systemsettings |
| 15:40.21 | ars1 | well |
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| 15:40.25 | ars1 | via ssh ? |
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| 15:42.14 | annma | via dbus thne |
| 15:42.24 | annma | I don't have it running though so I can(t check |
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| 15:42.54 | annma | http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Metadata/Nepomuk/NepomukServer will help you |
| 15:43.01 | annma | ars1: ^^ |
| 15:43.14 | ars1 | ty |
| 15:43.17 | ars1 | i couldnt find it |
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| 15:44.40 | Zorael | mokoloko: I get the same behavior even with 'use system titlebars and borders' enabled. It properly calls itself Chromium otherwise (including the page title of the current tab), but as soon as it gets grouped it falls back to just Chromium-browser (and not Chromium) |
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| 15:50.03 | yanir | hello |
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| 16:28.37 | tefl0n | Sho_: thank you |
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| 16:31.45 | tefl0n | Sho_: is this only available on kde >= 4.3? |
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| 16:34.38 | tefl0n | Sho_: nm i found it 'traverse windows on all desktops' |
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| 16:41.44 | Sho_ | tefl0n: The UI changed a bit in 4.4 as Alt+Tab got many new features/options ⦠the one I gave you was the 4.4 version |
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| 16:42.56 | KWhat_Work | how do i get the default alsa device into audio output settings |
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| 16:44.24 | proprietarysucks | what is the command I need to run to make kde reload it's quicklaunch icons? |
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| 17:11.20 | tefl0n | Sho_: awesome thanks again |
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| 17:11.30 | Sho_ | tefl0n: happy to help |
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| 17:29.31 | Arithmos | hi |
| 17:31.15 | Arithmos | I use Xorg-server 1.8.0 with last udev, I've done optimisation for kernel with inotify and other things for udev. When I plug an mmc card or usb key, dmesg see them, I can see them in /dev but dolphin do not see anything |
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| 17:32.58 | pinotree | Arithmos: kde uses hal for hardware listing |
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| 17:33.27 | pinotree | so you need the hal daemon running for having hardware information in kde |
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| 17:34.33 | Arithmos | pinotree: ok, :D Well did kde plqn to use the new udev rules ? |
| 17:34.48 | pinotree | plqn? |
| 17:34.52 | Arithmos | plan |
| 17:34.53 | troy | plan, methinks |
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| 17:35.02 | pinotree | when somebody does that |
| 17:35.08 | Arithmos | yes thx I use both keyboard us and fr |
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| 17:36.12 | troy | Arithmos: are you a good enough programmer to write a Solid plugin (kde's hardware layer) that speaks directly to udev? if so, we'd gladly accept contributions :) |
| 17:36.17 | The_User | Hi! I want to create a shortcut for Ctrl+Z+bg\n for the Konsole |
| 17:36.22 | The_User | bg\n works |
| 17:36.27 | The_User | but ctrl+z?? |
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| 17:36.30 | troy | otherwise, we'll keep using hal for now :) |
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| 17:37.18 | Arithmos | troy: hal is depracated :) |
| 17:37.23 | Arithmos | deprecated |
| 17:37.26 | Sho_ | notes that the proper replacement for hal for that is udisks (http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/udisks), not talking to udev direcvtly |
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| 17:37.39 | vadi | What is the file or source code which paint or describe how the KDE 4 pager will be painted? |
| 17:37.39 | pinotree | Sho_: no |
| 17:38.40 | pinotree | Sho_: the replacement for hal in kdelibs solid's usage is udev |
| 17:39.11 | troy | puts pinotree and Sho_ in a vat of jello and tells them to fight :) |
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| 17:39.59 | Sho_ | pinotree: things like power management are supposed to use libudev directly now, yeah, but udisks is still distinct though it's supposed to be rolled into the udev-extra package iirc |
| 17:40.22 | Sho_ | but I'll admit these are vague memories from skimming the mailing lists |
| 17:40.50 | pinotree | Sho_: no, that's exactly the other way round: libsolid needs to use udev for hardware, while solid-power can use upower |
| 17:41.03 | pinotree | but udisks has no role in solid's needs |
| 17:41.04 | Sho_ | ha, ok :) |
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| 18:06.02 | kusa | hi |
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| 18:12.32 | The_User | hi kusa |
| 18:13.34 | KWhat_Work | is phonon getting fixed soon? |
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| 18:16.39 | Sho_ | KWhat_Work: What's broken about it? |
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| 18:17.28 | KWhat_Work | Sho_: it doesnt use alsa and or xine correctly |
| 18:17.43 | Sho_ | KWhat_Work: How so? |
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| 18:18.18 | KWhat_Work | Sho_: well for example right now my card is grayed out. No biggie except that not only does the card work with alsa it also works via xine |
| 18:18.40 | KWhat_Work | just about everything works except for phonon |
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| 18:19.13 | KWhat_Work | it does appear to work correctly unless there is some heavy asound conf hackery |
| 18:19.16 | Sho_ | KWhat_Work: Hm, do you have PulseAudio installed? If PulseAudio is around the Multimedia settings basically become a frontend for what PulseAudio believes to be true about devicesd |
| 18:19.28 | KWhat_Work | no pulse audio |
| 18:19.42 | KWhat_Work | and its not a video card driver bug |
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| 18:20.28 | TommyThaGun | Is there a way to get Shutdown as an option in the Leave menu? |
| 18:21.03 | Sho_ | TommyThaGun: If you started your KDE session from KDM it will be there |
| 18:21.10 | TommyThaGun | hmm |
| 18:21.21 | TommyThaGun | I started it with gdm |
| 18:22.02 | TommyThaGun | so I will have to log out every time I want to shut down? |
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| 18:22.23 | Sho_ | replace GDM with KDM |
| 18:22.42 | Sho_ | then you get http://imagebin.ca/view/cV-C1fjm.html |
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| 18:28.41 | TommyThaGun | okay, so Sho_, in ubuntu would I just use dpkg-reconfigure? |
| 18:28.50 | TommyThaGun | sudo dpkg-reconfigure kdm? |
| 18:29.36 | Sho_ | TommyThaGun: You should ask in #kubuntu, I'm not a Kubuntu user and don't know for sure - but iirc it was a simple command like that, yeah |
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| 18:33.04 | TommyThaGun | okay, thanks |
| 18:33.23 | TommyThaGun | I just ran it and it worked I think. I'll need to log out to be sure. |
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| 19:42.40 | mck182 | which spellchecker does kde use? |
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| 19:48.36 | cb400f | mck182: afaik it's abstracted like this by default: sonnet -> enchant -> hunspell |
| 19:49.15 | cb400f | but abstraction makes it possible to use different engines I should think |
| 19:53.30 | mck182 | cb400f: I have hunspell installed with the right dictionaries, but I'm getting console output that the dictionary is not available...any idea what may be wrong? |
| 19:54.20 | cb400f | nope, sorry |
| 19:57.03 | mck182 | cb400f: ah, reinstalling the dics helped :) thanks |
| 19:58.29 | cb400f | well.. no thanks to me, but glad it's working :-) |
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| 20:05.47 | floe | hi |
| 20:07.45 | floe | When using phonon-xine-backend sound (playing kde test sound, mp3s, avis in kaffeine) is skipping. Any ideas what is broken here? |
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| 20:50.14 | scorpius_ | when I ssh into the remote machine, I can browse my home directory. Konqueror in KDE3.5.10, however, using fish:// cannot browse it? |
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| 20:57.24 | scorpius_ | when I ssh into the remote machine, I can browse my home directory. Konqueror in KDE3.5.10, however, using fish:// cannot browse it? |
| 20:59.08 | Sho_ | scorpius_: use sftp:// |
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| 21:01.15 | scorpius_ | Sho_ same with sftp:// in Konqueror, cannot browse using this protocol. when I log in using ssh,however, I can browse my home directory |
| 21:01.55 | Sho_ | scorpius_: hmm |
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| 21:08.44 | proprietarysucks | what command reloads the kde quicklaunch icons? |
| 21:08.59 | Sho_ | what do you mean, reload the icons? |
| 21:09.25 | proprietarysucks | if I add a file to the location of the other files, it does not acutally show up on the quicklaunch area |
| 21:09.37 | proprietarysucks | then if I make a change to an existing one and save, the new icon shows up too |
| 21:10.29 | Sho_ | there's probably a list of .desktop files in a config file somewhere |
| 21:10.51 | proprietarysucks | so what's the command to update that list then |
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| 21:11.26 | Sho_ | there probably is none, the "command" is the UI you would normally use to add an icon |
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| 21:11.51 | proprietarysucks | so there is no programatic way to add an icon to kde's quicklaunch panel |
| 21:12.05 | Sho_ | probably not |
| 21:12.13 | proprietarysucks | wow that's |
| 21:12.38 | Sho_ | well, i might be wrong |
| 21:12.56 | Sho_ | ask in #plasma maybe |
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| 21:16.19 | scorpius_ | why in konqueror using fish:// or sftp:// can I not browse remote folders that are drwxr-xr-x but I can browse folders that are drwxrwxrwx ?? |
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| 21:23.11 | mika__ | hi, does the akonadi google sync support google apps with my own domain? |
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| 22:07.00 | jef91 | Howdy All, I am using KDE 4.4.2 and for some reason my desktop compositing is disabled. My graphics drivers are installed and working any other suggestions on why it would not let me turn on the effects? |
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| 22:10.06 | brylie | I would like to file a feature request so that there may exist a 'prior art' of an idea that I have. The idea relates to keyboard input. |
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| 22:18.28 | Tomasu | what would cause the "sensors" plasmoid to not have any sensors show up? |
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| 22:52.29 | gmartyn | Tomasu: make sure you have lmsensors installed |
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| 23:12.12 | MoDaX | Tomasu: and ksysguardd |
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| 23:54.00 | *** join/#kde mschaal (~Marcel@dslb-084-057-154-093.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:57.40 | *** join/#kde mata (~mata@189.163.186.198) |
