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| 00:03.16 | Tatsh | thiago, nah |
| 00:03.27 | Tatsh | can't because comcast and pretty much ever ISP is blocking port 25 |
| 00:03.39 | Tatsh | every* |
| 00:04.02 | thiago | use 587 |
| 00:04.04 | Tatsh | so you can't have truly your own mail server, only one that relays to your ISP's SMTP server |
| 00:04.19 | thiago | how do you think I send email? (I'm on comcast) |
| 00:04.32 | thiago | SMTP over port 587 to my server in Germany, encrypted |
| 00:04.56 | Tatsh | you're relaying to that server right? |
| 00:05.51 | thiago | yes |
| 00:05.58 | Tatsh | i had postfix all configured, then it's like, 'okay want to send to mail to a gmail user' smtp.googlemail.com port 25 blocked |
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| 00:06.23 | Tatsh | so you have to relay to someone else on another port in any case |
| 00:06.32 | thiago | I relay to my server |
| 00:06.39 | thiago | my server can send on port 25 on its own |
| 00:06.50 | Tatsh | i don't have such niceties but i do use another service to send emails from another domain |
| 00:06.54 | Tatsh | receiving is a mess |
| 00:07.23 | Tatsh | gmail is heavily used by people, and what's terrible is no guarantee that your Reply-To header will actually go through |
| 00:07.55 | Tatsh | if gmail suspects anything they will replace it or remove it, they will keep the value at X-Gmail-Original-Reply-To header or something like that |
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| 00:25.11 | hid | what advantages to use gmail? |
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| 00:27.19 | Tatsh | you tell me; most users were sucked in (including me) around 2003 with the lure of tons of free space for email |
| 00:27.34 | Tatsh | because back then having > 1 GB of space on the internet was a big deal |
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| 00:37.45 | valorie | gmail is very nice when you have an android phone |
| 00:37.56 | valorie | all of their services Just Work |
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| 00:38.21 | valorie | however, you surrender privacy, so it is not free, or Free |
| 00:38.39 | valorie | pays that price, for now |
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| 01:26.46 | jens_ | Good night. For some reason I've gotten the Applications runner twice (in KRunner). Is there a way to remove the duplicate runner? |
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| 01:29.41 | timh | kde crashes - OS won't boot ... thanks, kde |
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| 01:39.23 | lainlives | timh: that could happen to any DE easly |
| 01:39.37 | lainlives | what did you change timh before this happened |
| 01:41.14 | timh | how come my other DEs on other OS are unchanged? |
| 01:41.27 | timh | I didn't do anything.. power went off for a few seconds |
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| 01:41.57 | lainlives | try removing kde's user configs? |
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| 01:42.21 | karthikp | jens_: Do you mean there are two krunners running at the same time? |
| 01:42.56 | jens_ | No. In Krunner, where you can select which runners to be active, Applications is displayed twice |
| 01:43.42 | rdieter | jens_: ALT-F2, click the wrench, to choose which plugins are active |
| 01:43.53 | timh | kde is really buggy for that to happen |
| 01:43.57 | karthikp | Oh. Hmm, I have only one. Does it persist across sessions? I mean if you log out and back in, do you still see two of it? |
| 01:44.12 | rdieter | timh: kde can't be responsible for your computer not booting |
| 01:44.13 | jens_ | I have rebooted this computer several times |
| 01:44.24 | lainlives | timh: ive never had such a problem myself |
| 01:44.36 | jens_ | The strange thing is, that before I reinstalled SUSE it didn't happen |
| 01:44.52 | timh | the kde screen takes forever now but then freezes |
| 01:45.04 | timh | but, my other OS which use different DEs boot normally |
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| 01:45.23 | timh | so, yes, it's a kde problem |
| 01:45.28 | lainlives | oh, well you cant blame KDE for the system not being bootable |
| 01:45.37 | lainlives | timh: how so, you say its an ENTIRELY different os? |
| 01:45.41 | karthikp | jens_: The settings seem to be in ~/.kde4/share/config/krunnerrc. |
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| 01:46.25 | timh | yes, the rest don't use kde |
| 01:46.31 | timh | but, boot normally |
| 01:46.34 | rdieter | timh: your symptoms hint at a video driver issue (since kde enables opengl desktop effects by default, if the driver claims to support it) |
| 01:47.30 | jens_ | karthikp, I see a lot except for anything related to the applications runner |
| 01:47.51 | timh | rdieter: strange... anyway, I have no idea how to fix it |
| 01:47.52 | karthikp | Make a copy of this krunnerrc. |
| 01:48.06 | karthikp | Then, disable one of the applications runners and see if a difference shows up. |
| 01:48.30 | jens_ | karthikp, I disabled one of the two already, but I'd like to remove the duplicate as a whole |
| 01:48.31 | timh | it worked before but was a slow bootup |
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| 01:49.08 | rdieter | timh: try login to "KDE Plasma Workspace (failsafe session)" session type instead, it essentially disables desktop effects |
| 01:49.15 | karthikp | Right. I was hoping there would be a duplicate entry in krunnerrc, but I don't see one for the application runner either. Still searching. |
| 01:49.45 | rdieter | timh: in the meantime, Id suggest you contact your distribution support channel for further advice |
| 01:51.21 | karthikp | jens_: Got it. Applications is controlled by servicesEnabled=true or false Are there two entries for servicesEnabled in krunnerrc? |
| 01:51.54 | jens_ | Only one entry, karthikp |
| 01:52.52 | karthikp | Hmm. How about we do this. First, we'll kill krunner. Find it in system settings and whack it or use killall krunner. |
| 01:53.13 | karthikp | Next, move krunnerrc from ~/.kde4/share/config to someplace else. Or rename it. |
| 01:53.31 | karthikp | Now, launch krunner fresh by right clicking on the desktop and selecting run command. |
| 01:53.51 | karthikp | Then, check if this problem persists. |
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| 01:54.19 | timh | rdieter: how to do that if I don't get that far? never get to login screen |
| 01:54.24 | jens_ | Yup, still duplicated and both are enabled, karthikp |
| 01:54.51 | karthikp | Okay, so krunnerrc isn't the file we need to bother with. Let's see where the services could be stored... |
| 01:55.42 | jens_ | I found in /usr/share/kde4/services several runner files |
| 01:56.13 | jens_ | Well, .desktop for the runners |
| 02:02.00 | karthikp | jens_: In that directory, /usr/share/kde4/services, try grepping for Name=Applications. |
| 02:02.15 | karthikp | grep -r "Name=Applications" /usr/share/kde4/services/ |
| 02:02.36 | karthikp | May be there are two files with that name? |
| 02:02.52 | jens_ | Yes |
| 02:02.55 | karthikp | You should only find plasma-runner-services.desktop returning a result. |
| 02:02.58 | karthikp | What's the other file? |
| 02:03.06 | jens_ | I also have the plasma-runner-rosa-services.desktop |
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| 02:03.19 | karthikp | Hmm, what's rosa, I wonder. |
| 02:03.28 | jens_ | Stuff from the ROSA distro |
| 02:03.33 | karthikp | Can you ask your package manager which package it belongs to? |
| 02:03.45 | jens_ | Probably plasmoid-ROSA-launcher |
| 02:03.52 | karthikp | Okay, so that's *probably* what's causing Applications to show up twice in krunner. |
| 02:04.36 | karthikp | One is the regular runner and one's something your distro installed. |
| 02:05.12 | jens_ | I actually use openSUSE, but I wanted to see what the ROSA stuff is |
| 02:05.35 | jens_ | Aaand it's gone |
| 02:05.48 | jens_ | Thanks, karthikp :) |
| 02:06.11 | karthikp | You're welcome. It's fun solving problems. :) |
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| 02:06.43 | jens_ | :) |
| 02:07.03 | jens_ | Great DE, great community |
| 02:08.36 | karthikp | \o/ Yay! |
| 02:09.06 | jens_ | ;D |
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| 02:29.24 | ed_t | karthikp re kmail corruption the arch mariadb version in 5.5.37 |
| 02:29.48 | ed_t | from may 2nd |
| 02:31.07 | ed_t | not 10.0.12? Arch is constantly upgrading... |
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| 02:33.17 | ed_t | kmail4 is giving me garbage mails after filtering. Subject: (No Subject), Sender: Unknown, Date: Unknown |
| 02:34.22 | ed_t | sometimes the ghost mails just appear (no subject, sender, date or body) |
| 02:37.51 | karthikp | My system doesn't like mariadb 10.0.12. All akonadi-based applications fail to function when I log in with that version installed. Basically, akonadi server fails to start. |
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| 02:39.37 | karthikp | I've downgraded to 5.5.37 while that is being looked into. Here's the bug report I filed a few hours back: https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/41178 |
| 02:41.03 | karthikp | As for working kmail, I don't see this issue of getting ghost emails when I search. |
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| 02:41.47 | karthikp | In fact, akonadi and baloo are working so well that I can search and find emails directly from krunner. |
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| 02:42.51 | karthikp | I'm not sure why your searches are coming back empty. Maybe someone on #kontact might know better, if no one shows up to answer here. |
| 02:44.19 | ed_t | here I am getting ghost mails with no subject, unknown date and sender and empty bodies. |
| 02:45.10 | ed_t | the cur new & tmp dirs for the Lists folder are empy though its Lists/lkml with the problem |
| 02:47.41 | ed_t | I've tried adonadictl fsck and the problem still reoccurs |
| 02:48.38 | ed_t | As sad as it is I'd switch to another mailer if I could find one that had the function or kmail and I could import my kmail mail.... |
| 02:50.44 | ed_t | just too many issues with kmail2. Archiving does not work correctly, More than 30000 to 40000 mails in a folder (or subfolder) and it get very very slow, It stalls when reading mails (sometimes for minutes). And reading mails creates 3-4M/s of IO, which is crazy. |
| 02:51.22 | ed_t | kmail1 was handling one folder with 500,000 messages (yes that 1/2 million) |
| 02:52.10 | ed_t | kmail2 can reference that folder but keeps forgetting that all the messages are read.... |
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| 02:52.29 | ed_t | sorry about venting |
| 02:53.15 | ed_t | it just that kmail, when it works, is the very good mail program. And it has not got better from a user perspective, with kmail2.... |
| 02:53.16 | karthikp | I understand. I guess I don't face these issues partly because my email is just about 20K or so. |
| 02:53.40 | ed_t | try subscribling to the linux kernel mailing list |
| 02:54.06 | karthikp | I do have one question. You're using imap with the disconnected imap turned on? Or is this because it's fetching data constantly from the server? |
| 02:54.44 | ed_t | setup a second folder for it (not in the local mail), and filter to that folder. It will not work automatically and you will need to use c+J |
| 02:54.52 | ed_t | yet another issue |
| 02:55.18 | ed_t | is someone actually fixing kmail bugs? |
| 02:56.09 | ed_t | maybe I should create a half dozen or so - though the last time I tried a kde bug the process was painful (unlike linux bugs) |
| 02:56.27 | ed_t | no imap its all pop |
| 02:57.33 | karthikp | The kde bug filing bit has certainly improved since the old days, I'm happy to say. |
| 02:58.02 | ed_t | I download from the server into my local mail folder (inbox), trigger a manual filter to move the lkml message to a second 'account' folder and use a third for an archive |
| 02:58.04 | karthikp | Hmm, All my mail is disconnected imap. Not much experience with pop. |
| 02:58.22 | ed_t | here my isp does NOT like imap. Not at all. |
| 02:58.38 | ed_t | nor do I given a choise |
| 02:59.15 | ed_t | think I i will open a few bugs and see if the devs are reasonable... |
| 02:59.55 | karthikp | Seems like the way forward... |
| 03:00.44 | karthikp | One of the reasons I use gmail is the imap support. |
| 03:00.49 | ed_t | I dread it though. Last time the kde devs wanted the world before they would even consider that there __might__ be an issue let alone a bug. |
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| 03:01.56 | karthikp | The worst bug to fix is one you can't reproduce. So, the more information one has, the better, no? |
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| 03:03.34 | ed_t | within reason. For each of the last three linux release I've managed to get 2-3 bugs fixed. No virtual worlds required... One need new firmware gernerated - they have not all be trival bugs |
| 03:03.51 | ed_t | I'll see what happens |
| 03:04.01 | ed_t | fun for tomorrow |
| 03:04.04 | ed_t | later |
| 03:04.41 | karthikp | The stuff that foss weekends are made of. :) |
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| 03:20.19 | deepblue | every time i press the 'open folder'button in transmission or evince,the rythmbox opens instead.how to fix this? |
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| 03:30.42 | dk0r | anyone known fixes to make chromium forward magnet links to ktorrent? |
| 03:31.00 | karthikp | deepblue: None of these are kde applications. I don't think they even care what desktop they're on, actually. Your best bet would be to ask on #rhythmbox, if that's their channel. |
| 03:31.22 | karthikp | Nope. That channel's empty. |
| 03:31.45 | karthikp | dk0r: I thought that happened automatically. |
| 03:31.55 | dk0r | karthikp: I wish it did. |
| 03:32.44 | dk0r | chromium detects magnets as external protocol requests and says it's going to send the magnet to xdg-open, not ktorrent |
| 03:32.47 | karthikp | What happens when you click a magnet link in chromium? (Also checking on my side to confirm) |
| 03:33.42 | karthikp | xdg-open is the freedesktop standard way of saying, open whatever application is supposed to handle this type of file. |
| 03:34.18 | dk0r | I searched /usr/bion/xdg-open for the word "magnet" but found nothing |
| 03:34.41 | dk0r | <PROTECTED> |
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| 03:36.02 | karthikp | dk0r: I think I found the problem. |
| 03:36.22 | karthikp | If you try it in a terminal, you get this error. |
| 03:36.25 | dk0r | karthikp: what do you see? |
| 03:37.13 | karthikp | http://pastebin.com/WHXiX9Sm |
| 03:37.31 | karthikp | Now, this is because xdg-open is mapped to kde-open --noninteractive. |
| 03:37.44 | karthikp | What you want to do is map to kde-open straight. |
| 03:38.05 | karthikp | I'm told this has been fixed in git, so the update should trickle to your distribution soon. |
| 03:38.22 | dk0r | https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=167967 |
| 03:38.36 | dk0r | but I'm not using xfce() |
| 03:39.09 | karthikp | In the mean time, you can just change line 515 of xdg-open to remove --noninteractive. |
| 03:40.31 | karthikp | That should fix this issue. |
| 03:40.42 | karthikp | No need to monkey around with grepping magnet, etc. |
| 03:41.28 | karthikp | You can test that this is going to work by using kde-open directly on a magnet link and it will try to launch it in ktorrent. |
| 03:41.53 | dk0r | karthikp: :) |
| 03:42.55 | dk0r | thanks so much. This is my second year on arch so I'm still sorta new. |
| 03:43.31 | karthikp | You're welcome! |
| 03:44.30 | karthikp | When arch updates xdg-utils, this file should be automatically overwritten. |
| 03:45.04 | dk0r | no sweat if I don't get it in the next update --I'll remember to kill --nonint |
| 03:45.56 | dk0r | are you a volunteer ? |
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| 03:59.57 | AndrzejL | karthikp: would it kill you to just link him to andrzejl.eu? :D :D :D |
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| 04:09.02 | karthikp | AndrzejL: That's right! You were the one telling me about this earlier this week. I was trying to remember and I kept remembering r d i e t e r (spaced it so as to not ping him). |
| 04:09.27 | karthikp | dk0r: Blame AndrzejL if it doesn't get updated in arch. :) |
| 04:10.04 | karthikp | Also, I'm just starting out hacking on kde code. I'm currently trying to fix a bug in the spell check framework called Sonnet. |
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| 04:11.33 | dk0r | Any ideas regarding kmix showing the system tray volume slider on the wrong display in a dual monitor setup?, would you? |
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| 04:12.14 | karthikp | You mean the on screen display thing? (no, either way) |
| 04:12.41 | karthikp | And by wrong, you mean the display that's not marked as the primary display? |
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| 04:12.57 | dk0r | I mean, the volume slider that appears when you click the kmix volume icon in the system tray. |
| 04:13.06 | dk0r | And yes, the non-primary display is what I mean. |
| 04:14.08 | karthikp | I can test this reasonably quickly. Gimme a minute. |
| 04:14.52 | karthikp | Okay, (that was quick, wasn't it?) it seems to follow the mouse. |
| 04:15.10 | karthikp | The indicators for both brightness and volume seem to appear on the display where the cursor is. |
| 04:15.33 | karthikp | That actually sounds like a better solution that using the primary monitor unconditionally... |
| 04:15.43 | karthikp | Does this match your observations? |
| 04:16.23 | dk0r | No. Both my mouse and the kmix icon (from the sys tray) which I'm clicking are on the primary display. |
| 04:16.56 | dk0r | Upon clicking the kmix icon, located on the primary display, the volume slider appears on the non-primary display |
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| 04:20.00 | karthikp | Wait, are we talking about this: http://i.imgur.com/tz8RSDd.jpg or this: http://i.imgur.com/XePOzjZ.png ? |
| 04:20.10 | AndrzejL | karthikp: lol ;D |
| 04:20.33 | dk0r | ill screen it |
| 04:20.34 | karthikp | I'm talking about the first one. The second one appears when you click the kmix icon. |
| 04:20.57 | karthikp | AndrzejL: And it was your fault to begin with. :) |
| 04:21.03 | AndrzejL | hahaha |
| 04:21.05 | AndrzejL | :P |
| 04:21.15 | AndrzejL | I am just a lowly user ;) |
| 04:21.38 | karthikp | I meant, had you not confused me with someone else I would have (probably) remembered who told me about it. :) |
| 04:22.19 | dk0r | the second one, http://i.imgur.com/XePOzjZ.png |
| 04:22.19 | dk0r | it's not a big deal. I can use my keyboard, or I can just mouse wheel ontop of the kmix icon |
| 04:22.20 | dk0r | karthikp: what distro? |
| 04:22.47 | karthikp | Ah. Okay. Yeah, I was talking about the first one. That follows your mouse. |
| 04:22.53 | karthikp | And I'm on arch. |
| 04:23.28 | karthikp | Although, my desktop is almost nearly stock kde. |
| 04:23.30 | dk0r | ah, me too. Have you ever had issues w/ the clock not staying set properly? switching time zones, etc. |
| 04:23.41 | karthikp | dk0r: You dual boot? |
| 04:23.45 | dk0r | me too --I like KDE a lot. |
| 04:23.46 | dk0r | nope |
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| 04:24.41 | karthikp | Damn. Thought I'd amaze you with that. Dual booting people have this problem with windows resetting their hardware clock to local time every time they boot it. |
| 04:25.13 | dk0r | yep. my hwclock was gen'd using utc |
| 04:25.14 | karthikp | The exalted archwiki, on the subject of Time: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/time |
| 04:25.42 | karthikp | I had a drift problem in the months before systemd landed. |
| 04:25.45 | dk0r | archwiki is why arch was my first linux distro. --very comprehensive; or exhaulted |
| 04:26.22 | karthikp | The ntp daemon would slowly lose interest in its job and eventually just wander off to smell the roses. |
| 04:26.31 | dk0r | hm. I for some reason cannot check the "Set date and time automically" box in KDE's Date & Time settings |
| 04:26.56 | karthikp | Meanwhile, my hardware clock would become faster and faster and after a couple of days, I'd be running a couple of minutes faster. |
| 04:27.40 | karthikp | Systemd seems to keep all daemons behaving properly and since then, I'd had no complaints about my clock. |
| 04:27.40 | AndrzejL | I guess none of you heard of ntp? :D |
| 04:27.45 | AndrzejL | LOL |
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| 04:27.55 | karthikp | ntp is what I was talking about! |
| 04:28.01 | AndrzejL | lol :P |
| 04:28.08 | dk0r | .... |
| 04:28.18 | dk0r | hrm. btw, it's not always software! I just recently learned about the indication of a working numlock key during a system freeze |
| 04:28.44 | dk0r | apparently, if your sys freezes and the numlock key doesn't work, that you means you had some kind of hard kernel freeze/panic ? |
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| 04:29.19 | dk0r | anyway, it led to me hardware. memtest said my memory was good. turned out I need to increase voltage to memory. |
| 04:29.23 | rx | hi. am i the only one having problems with the nouveau driver in fedora20? i have a nvidia 7600gs graphic card and most widgets dont render properly out of the box |
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| 04:29.34 | dk0r | no idea why --i'm not overclocked and bios is stock settomgs |
| 04:30.06 | dk0r | rx, have you tried proprietary drivers? |
| 04:30.19 | karthikp | rx: I'm using nouveau with 6800 and 9800 and both are happy. |
| 04:30.53 | rx | not yet... im trying to find the causes.. 7xxx card are so standard and never caused me problems before |
| 04:31.00 | karthikp | Then again, nouveau is a reverse-engineered project and it's entirely possible that some cards do thing just that little bit differently... |
| 04:31.14 | rx | yeah |
| 04:31.32 | karthikp | What sort of problems are you seeing? |
| 04:32.03 | karthikp | When nouveau was very new, I used to see instability (I mean hard freezes, crashes, etc). |
| 04:32.08 | rx | i see garbage inside widgets |
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| 04:32.22 | dk0r | screen shot? |
| 04:32.24 | karthikp | For a while I tried to use an ancient fire something card. ATI, basically and I saw icon corruption. |
| 04:33.19 | karthikp | Hey, it could be because your icon cache needs to be dumped and rebuilt, too. |
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| 04:33.30 | rx | dk0r: cant right now... not using that computer :( |
| 04:33.31 | karthikp | That would be the kde-<username> folder in /var/tmp. |
| 04:33.54 | deepblue | every time i press the 'open folder'button in transmission or evince,the rythmbox opens instead.how to fix this? |
| 04:33.55 | karthikp | I'd log out, zap that directory and hell, why not, reboot for good measure and log back in. |
| 04:34.12 | rx | its not just icons unfortunately :( |
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| 04:34.37 | karthikp | Widget backgrounds also get cached, don't they? I know wallpapers do. |
| 04:35.02 | rx | will try that tomorrow |
| 04:35.07 | karthikp | And favicons in browsers. Rekonq even caches the website screenshots. |
| 04:35.25 | karthikp | Yup. All this is in /var/tmp, which unlike /tmp, persists across reboots. |
| 04:35.31 | karthikp | And it's totally safe to whack it. |
| 04:35.42 | karthikp | Your system will just rebuild the cache. |
| 04:35.46 | rx | to be honest f20 is really buggy overall |
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| 04:36.44 | karthikp | <subtle arch plug>That's why I prefer to do everything myself. Do it once, do it right.</subtle arch plug> |
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| 04:39.05 | rx | used to do that.. minimal slackware install and built everything... but im casual user these days... i think i use my home computer 30mins/day ;-) |
| 04:39.38 | rx | unless i have some free time during the weekend ;-P |
| 04:40.58 | karthikp | Sounds *very* familiar. I miss my grad school days when there seemed to be an infinite amount of time for tinkering with my comps. *sniff* |
| 04:41.41 | karthikp | Oh well. |
| 04:41.58 | rx | heh |
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| 04:43.08 | karthikp | Since there's no food in the house, I shall go foraging for some dinner action. |
| 04:43.23 | karthikp | Cavemen had spears. I have a credit card. :) |
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| 06:31.18 | jcsl_ | Hi. Can you delete a mail in KMail -without- opening it first? |
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| 06:37.31 | karthikp | jcsl_: Tricky thing to do. Why not open it? |
| 06:37.51 | jcsl_ | Because it is spam |
| 06:38.09 | karthikp | Do you have html loading turned on? |
| 06:38.29 | jcsl_ | No |
| 06:38.34 | karthikp | You could turn it off and there will be nothing fetched. It'll just show as gibberish text. |
| 06:39.01 | karthikp | In that case, it should be perfectly okay to right click and move to trash. |
| 06:39.45 | jcsl_ | Yeah, but I'd like to trash it directly. I've read that spammers can know if you opened the mail and then they know the account is alive |
| 06:40.19 | karthikp | If you render html, it may try to fetch images and other things from the spammer's website. |
| 06:40.34 | valorie | only if you allow that, jcsl_ |
| 06:40.52 | karthikp | Luckily, in kmail, you have to first say yes, load the html and then, yes load the images as well. So, you have two chances to not let them know. |
| 06:40.55 | jcsl_ | valorie: How do I allow or deny it? |
| 06:41.25 | valorie | "return receipt" or whatever they call it now is turned off by default |
| 06:41.33 | karthikp | jcsl_: http://i.imgur.com/BEZpG3x.png |
| 06:41.41 | valorie | you have to turn it on; if you didn't, it is off |
| 06:43.16 | jcsl_ | Ok, thanks for your help. |
| 06:43.23 | karthikp | The return receipt thing is the MDN (next tab). |
| 06:43.40 | valorie | jcsl_: it used to be on by default in Microsoft office mail products |
| 06:43.49 | valorie | which is why you might have heard that |
| 06:44.06 | valorie | kmail <3 |
| 06:44.16 | jcsl_ | Ah... I don't remember my Windows times now XD |
| 06:44.16 | karthikp | Agreed. :) |
| 06:44.45 | valorie | I administer lists with lots of win users |
| 06:44.55 | valorie | so no forgetting for me |
| 06:45.09 | jcsl_ | :( |
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| 06:46.21 | valorie | I'm sure it's off by default now, but it's amazing how many people are still using ancient *unpatched* win computers |
| 06:46.55 | jcsl_ | Yeah, XP still has a lot of users... |
| 06:47.18 | valorie | and even older! |
| 06:47.31 | jcsl_ | That's scary... |
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| 06:47.35 | valorie | kids get new computers and give the old ones to parents/grandparents |
| 06:47.41 | valorie | indeed |
| 06:48.15 | valorie | old computer is fine, as long as it's a linux box |
| 06:48.21 | valorie | just slow |
| 06:48.26 | jcsl_ | Kids should educate their parents sometimes |
| 06:49.11 | jcsl_ | That's the beauty of Linux: you can customize it to fit even very old computers |
| 06:49.19 | valorie | indeed |
| 06:49.40 | valorie | I burned lots of DVDs at my local linuxfest for people who are just now getting off XP |
| 06:50.48 | jcsl_ | The end of life of XP is a good moment to get new users. If they just see how well their computers can run... |
| 06:51.23 | valorie | that's why I love having liveDVDs to hand out |
| 06:51.31 | valorie | people can try it before installing |
| 06:51.50 | valorie | of course I did thumbdrives too, but can't afford to give them out free |
| 06:52.19 | jcsl_ | That's another nice feature: test before install |
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| 07:17.05 | lordievader | Good morning. |
| 07:17.13 | jcsl_ | Hi |
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| 07:17.44 | lordievader | Hey jcsl_, how are you? |
| 07:18.09 | jcsl_ | Fine thanks |
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| 07:33.28 | Sauvin | I have lost the application launcher and am unable to re-add this widget. |
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| 07:35.08 | moviuro | Sauvin: open a konsole, run $ krunner& then close the konsole |
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| 07:36.06 | Sauvin | Will it appear again on next reboot? |
| 07:36.43 | lordievader | Sauvin: Unless there is some error, it should start upon login. |
| 07:37.05 | Sauvin | This is the third or fourth reboot since it's disappeared. |
| 07:37.31 | lordievader | Check if it is segfaulting or something. |
| 07:37.41 | Sauvin | What I'm talking about - maybe I'm using the wrong term - is that little blue box with the 'K' in it in the lower left corner. What moviuro suggested calls up something you type stuff into. |
| 07:37.43 | ZorroT | debian current/qt 4.8.2, platform 4.8.4 -- once upon a time, clicking on shortcuts to network servers in dolphin would pop up kde wallet requester, which, once unlocked, would lead to a connection to a network server. Now, they just hang on "loading" and no kde wallet requestor comes up. |
| 07:37.44 | jcsl_ | Sauvin: Do you mean the application launcher button? |
| 07:38.03 | Sauvin | That sounds about right. |
| 07:38.12 | moviuro | jcsl_: Sauvin: Kicker ;) |
| 07:38.15 | Sauvin | Trying to re-add that widget freezes the system. |
| 07:38.21 | moviuro | (that's its name) |
| 07:38.57 | ZorroT | as a side note, when it kde wallet requestors _did_ come up, they tended to come up _behind_ other application windows. is there a way to fix that? |
| 07:39.09 | jcsl_ | I don't know how to fix it, but you can add a new default panel and delete that. Just right click on the desktop > Add panel > Default panel |
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| 07:39.13 | Sauvin | OK, it's a kicker. How to get 'kicker' back on the task bar? |
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| 07:40.17 | jcsl_ | Sauvin: read my previous message, please. The bad thind is that you loose your panel customization |
| 07:40.56 | Sauvin | Might not be such a bad thing IF the panel isn't somehow foobared and I can't add *anything* to it. |
| 07:41.19 | jcsl_ | Go for it then |
| 07:43.26 | moviuro | ZorroT: try to put focus on one of the windows -> Alt-F3 -> special application settings -> blahblahblah -> try to find "on top", "first row" or similar |
| 07:44.09 | Sauvin | Mmkay, now the default panel is on the top of the screen, instead of the bottom. |
| 07:44.22 | ZorroT | moviuro: danke. now to solve the first problem: where'd the requesters go? |
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| 07:45.06 | moviuro | ZorroT: well, you do that "put on top" thing when focusing one of kwallet's windows ;) |
| 07:45.11 | Sauvin | ... oh. Never mind, something in 'settings' takes care of that. You gave me my kicker back! |
| 07:45.25 | jcsl_ | Sauvin: glad to help you |
| 07:48.34 | Sauvin | Didn't get my task bar back exactly as it was, but it was easy enough to figure out how to get my IRC client and my Konsole back onto the panel, so, life is good. |
| 07:48.37 | Sauvin | Thanks! |
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| 08:21.51 | cousin_luigi | Greetings. |
| 08:25.38 | lordievader | o/ |
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| 08:27.03 | cousin_luigi | I keep having the volume muted after login. I created a script that toggles it if needed, but I suspect it's being launched too early. |
| 08:27.11 | Extensa5630G | lordievader: \O/ |
| 08:27.24 | lordievader | Extensa5630G: ? |
| 08:27.33 | Extensa5630G | ah, i should greet cousin_luigi |
| 08:27.57 | lordievader | Hihi, I don't mind being greeted ;) |
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| 08:28.23 | cousin_luigi | hello Extensa5630G, have we met?:) |
| 08:28.33 | Extensa5630G | lordievader: Yeah, obviously. |
| 08:28.49 | Extensa5630G | cousin_luigi: sure thing, ##hardware :) |
| 08:29.18 | cousin_luigi | oh right:) |
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| 09:14.23 | BluesKaj | 'Morning folks |
| 09:14.42 | aerofoam | yo again |
| 09:15.23 | BluesKaj | yoyo |
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| 10:07.23 | patsToms | morning, is there any way to use kde console with user shell? |
| 10:07.49 | patsToms | tb run commands as a login shell |
| 10:12.26 | BluesKaj | patsToms, like the vt/tty? |
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| 10:15.03 | patsToms | BluesKaj, just used "/bin/bash --login" |
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| 10:21.15 | viscera | Is there a way to make it so that on the panel, text for minimized windows is NOT made a lighter color? |
| 10:21.28 | viscera | I want it to be the same color as non-minimzed windows. |
| 10:21.43 | viscera | i.e. so it isn't nearly impossible to read |
| 10:22.00 | viscera | It seems to happen on every Plasma theme I try so I want to set it globally |
| 10:22.09 | viscera | I'm not sure how people put up with this... |
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| 10:30.46 | moviuro | viscera: IIRC, there was a similar discussion and long story short: you can't |
| 10:31.45 | moviuro | try using the theme to Aya (which uses your KDE color scheme AFAICT) |
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| 10:49.17 | rebsadran | hey, is it possible to make the panel calendar less ugly ? |
| 10:50.02 | rebsadran | like wtf is this : http://imgur.com/PKwiJIA |
| 10:50.52 | rebsadran | I mean it doesn't matter that much but whenever I want to check the calendar I don't want to lose my vision for the upcoming 5 minutes |
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| 10:57.45 | cousin_luigi | rebsadran: what about using another theme? |
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| 10:58.48 | cousin_luigi | rebsadran: https://i.imgur.com/SkomrjQ.jpg |
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| 12:30.01 | suore | hello |
| 12:31.53 | suore | I have problem with firefox in kde |
| 12:32.41 | suore | in favourites ae to big seperators beatwen links... around 2mm :>.... ho to remove huge seperators? |
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| 12:33.38 | suore | and totaly... from applications menu? |
| 12:33.43 | suore | are to boog seperators :> |
| 12:34.00 | cousin_luigi | that doesn't sound like a kde problem |
| 12:35.11 | suore | in Avidemux-qt also is this problem :> too big seperators :> |
| 12:35.37 | moviuro | suore: screenshot please |
| 12:37.02 | easo2k | i want to thank all the developers of kde. youre doing a really good job. |
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| 12:39.59 | suore | compare ss1 and ss2... https://www.dropbox.com/s/jf90ppw9wipefwl/ss.tar.gz open any scrren in some and use â and â co compare :> |
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| 12:41.38 | suore | what you think about it |
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| 12:45.43 | suore | so?!, i its 1mm seperator... i think 0,3 be great :> but where to change it |
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| 12:47.31 | suore | and other question - Kopete is still alive?! |
| 12:49.52 | moviuro | suore: kopete's still working, that's the good point to see ;) |
| 12:50.49 | suore | moviuro, but Gadu-Gadu nor importing contacts.... |
| 12:50.52 | suore | not |
| 12:54.25 | suore | other . k9copy is now abbadoned, kde team can take and start develop it ? |
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| 12:59.32 | moviuro | suore: what was k9copy for? |
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| 13:00.57 | suore | moviuro, ripping http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/K9copy_version_2_3_5.png :> DVD |
| 13:01.07 | suore | something like DVD Shring for winows |
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| 13:01.18 | moviuro | suore: k3b + transcode |
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| 13:02.05 | suore | k3b allow mi to rip dvd? witch choice what content i want to have? |
| 13:02.12 | suore | me* |
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| 13:04.17 | suore | okay so what about this 1-2mm seperator and why Kopete not downloading contact list from Gadu-Gadu server?! |
| 13:04.22 | suore | Facebook works perfect |
| 13:04.32 | suore | and works pergect jabber |
| 13:04.58 | moviuro | there also is kde telepathy as an alternative to kopete |
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| 13:05.20 | suore | o |
| 13:05.24 | suore | i check it |
| 13:08.11 | dk0r | Any suggestions on how to force KDE to empty the trash? Different folders in my trash will not delete. Upon attempting to empty trash, dolphin reports the folders 'do not exist' or that it simply 'Could not delete file' |
| 13:12.18 | suore | telepathy-haze? |
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| 13:32.45 | hid | hi |
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| 14:23.15 | moviuro | I'm really wondering why dolphin took about 10seconds to open and display my ~ |
| 14:25.13 | kenod | moviuro: Does it always take that long? Do you see the same behaviour with other directories? |
| 14:25.52 | moviuro | kenod: not always. Also, I only use dolphin by calling it from a keyboard shortcut, which opens ~ |
| 14:26.03 | moviuro | now it's more like ~1 sec |
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| 14:27.14 | kenod | moviuro: How many files do you have in your home dir? |
| 14:27.41 | moviuro | 28 |
| 14:27.49 | moviuro | (ls -l|wc -l) |
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| 14:28.02 | moviuro | 89 with hidden things |
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| 14:30.27 | kenod | moviuro:I don't think you have a problem. But, is there any chance they are pictures or movies and you have told dolphin to show a preview? |
| 14:32.24 | moviuro | not in my ~, no |
| 14:32.48 | moviuro | in my Pictures and Videos folders, sure, but my computers are nicely ordered ;) |
| 14:32.52 | moviuro | and taken care of |
| 14:32.54 | moviuro | and loved |
| 14:32.58 | moviuro | :3 |
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| 14:34.26 | hid | large files and folders can make dolphin slow |
| 14:34.38 | hid | what size is ~? |
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| 14:36.06 | moviuro | hid: all inside of like du -sh ~ ? |
| 14:36.40 | moviuro | or just ls -l ~| awk '{print $5}' ? |
| 14:38.34 | kenod | moviuro: du -shm ~ |
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| 14:39.12 | moviuro | h and m collide, for the record ;) |
| 14:39.21 | moviuro | du -sh returns 119G |
| 14:40.53 | kenod | moviuro: I'm not sure you have a problem with your installation. |
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| 14:41.47 | kenod | moviuro: You could trace what dolphin is doing by using the strace command |
| 14:41.52 | moviuro | kenod: I'd wager a "no chance", unless KDE breaks just like that ;) |
| 14:42.23 | moviuro | that was super super super super sloooooow |
| 14:42.54 | moviuro | lots of recvmsg(6, 0x7fff4b4861f0, 0) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable) |
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| 14:45.33 | kenod | moviuro: Is everything else behaving normally - just dolphin is slow when accessing your home directory? |
| 14:46.45 | moviuro | konsole also sometimes take ages |
| 14:47.39 | kenod | moviuro: What version of KDE are you running? |
| 14:47.47 | moviuro | latest AFAIK |
| 14:47.50 | moviuro | (archlinux) |
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| 14:50.34 | moviuro | afk |
| 14:51.31 | kenod | moviuro: Is there anything interesting is .xsession-errors? |
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| 14:52.48 | kenod | moviuro: Also, is this a physical machine or a VM? |
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| 15:08.16 | ntz | hello |
| 15:09.02 | ntz | how do that block device discovery service work ? can I set it that it also checks for /dev/mapper devices ? it is not doing it right now obviously |
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| 15:09.59 | moviuro | kenod: physical machine, BTRFS |
| 15:10.00 | ntz | so for example when some usb device containing lvm appears in the system it is not shown in "available devices" and you must to handle all manually |
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| 15:10.54 | moviuro | kenod: nothing out of the ordinary in .xsession-errors |
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| 15:46.13 | rebsadran | hey, how can I disable mouse over preview of the panel? |
| 15:46.36 | rebsadran | I mean when I mouse over on panel item it goes fullscreen |
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| 15:48.37 | moviuro | rebsadran: that's the "preview" function: it's either a KWin effect you can disable in systemsettings or in the taskmanager's settings |
| 15:49.34 | snassar | rebsadran: If you go to System Settings > Desktop Effects |
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| 15:50.02 | snassar | rebsadran: scroll down to taskbar thumbnails |
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| 15:53.55 | rebsadran | snassar: Still there |
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| 15:57.21 | rebsadran | I don't get it |
| 15:57.25 | rebsadran | the whole panel is so buggy |
| 15:57.52 | rebsadran | sometimes a transparent screen just stays there when I switch workspaces |
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| 15:59.32 | davispuh | hello, any idea how to prevent KDE from putting xrandr option in ~/.kde4/share/config/startupconfig ? or how it determines it? basically as always my monitor resolution isn't detected correctly (I really hate xorg...) and I've put modeline in xorg.conf and now resolution is correct for login screen but as soon as I login, it's overridden with that xrandr option... and changing resolution in KDE settings it have no effect after logout/login |
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| 16:00.36 | Ardonik | davispuh: There's a front-end to xrandr called krandrtray -- I thought its settings persisted. |
| 16:00.38 | ntz | and one more point :) .. seems like the konqueror just grown up significantly in past year, right ? konqueror is now working great (whilst reconq not that great) .. Is it right that konqueror is now preffered to reconq ? |
| 16:01.00 | Ardonik | There's also kscreen, which is some sort of modern replacement (I'm not as familiar with it.) |
| 16:03.43 | davispuh | that krandrtray is same KDE settings I meant and yeah it have no effect, if I change resolution, it's correct, but once I log out and log in it's back to default value |
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| 16:07.21 | davispuh | in that startupconfig krandrrc_display_startup_commands is always set to "xrandr ..." and I just don't need it to set it, because it's correct from xorg.conf |
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| 16:07.47 | davispuh | it break resolution :D |
| 16:08.30 | davispuh | when I manually remove it, it sets it back after restart |
| 16:09.23 | davispuh | it would be okay if it would have set it correct atleast... |
| 16:11.04 | davispuh | I didn't have kscreen, just installed will see |
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| 16:36.06 | davispuh | awesome, success with kscreen, it works perfectly, and all resolution changes are regarded and it even uses correct resolution automatically |
| 16:36.39 | davispuh | no idea what it was that before, maybe just settings/config, but it was enough to just install kscreen and it's all good out-of-box |
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| 16:36.40 | ed_t | 27000 mails down the drain just by renaming a folder which had ghost emails in it - was going to copy the good mails to a new folder. instead the last months worth of lkml messages are GONE. |
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| 16:37.29 | karthikp | ed_t: Shit, that's bad. Back ups? |
| 16:37.48 | ed_t | no not of the mail folders |
| 16:38.06 | ed_t | when kmail2 fails it does a good job of it. |
| 16:38.35 | cousin_luigi | that's why I gave up on it years ago |
| 16:39.09 | karthikp | Also, the rcf822 files of the mails themselves are in ~/.local/share/akonadi/file_db_data/ |
| 16:39.49 | karthikp | You may be able to grep and recover them if you're lucky... |
| 16:39.53 | davispuh | only with kscreen you can see visual artefacts, non-cleared screen when it changes resolution and also there's like 4 times in total resolution is changed, kernel does it twice, then KDM, then finally user one and maybe even some more between KDM and user |
| 16:40.09 | cousin_luigi | ed_t: what's wrong with thunderbird, again? |
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| 16:41.34 | hyper_ch | I have a strange issue.... the open file dialogue in Kate is really slow... it takes like 10-20 seconds for everything when I wnat to move accross the fs directory... however dolphin is fast as ever... how can I troubleshoot that? |
| 16:41.39 | ed_t | last time I tried to use it for lkml it did not do the job at all |
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| 16:43.23 | d34df00d | Hi! |
| 16:44.22 | d34df00d | I've noticed KDE's Desktop Notifications implementation emits NotificationClosed() when a notification has been expired, but then it emits ActionInvoked() with the same (closed) ID, which is a violation of the spec: "The ID specified in the signal is invalidated before the signal is sent and may not be used in any further communications with the server." |
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| 16:44.32 | d34df00d | Is this a known issue, and what's the proper place to discuss this? |
| 16:46.08 | davispuh | by the way when KDM starts, it sets one resolution, then when you login, something changes it once to display user loading screen and then finally kscreen changes it again, I think that's a bug because why change it twice on user login |
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| 17:21.52 | moviuro | d34df00d: #kde-devel and bugs.kde.org |
| 17:22.59 | d34df00d | moviuro: k, thanks. |
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| 17:29.24 | hyper_ch | I have a strange issue.... the open file dialogue in Kate is really slow... it takes like 10-20 seconds for everything when I wnat to move accross the fs directory... however dolphin is fast as ever... how can I troubleshoot that? |
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| 17:58.34 | hyper_ch | I have a strange issue.... the open file dialogue in Kate is really slow... it takes like 10-20 seconds for everything when I wnat to move accross the fs directory... however dolphin is fast as ever... how can I troubleshoot that? |
| 17:58.50 | Quantum` | Anyone know how it works when in KDE you edit a menu entry and check "Run as a different user"? |
| 17:58.50 | Quantum` | When I run it then and check Remember, KDE Wallet never notices. |
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| 18:09.39 | moviuro | hyper_ch: stop posting the same issue over and over... espescially when no one is talking |
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| 18:35.07 | Ardonik | moviuro: I respectfully disagree with you. I don't see a problem in pasting the same issue occasionally in order to draw attention to it; during busy times, people aren't always paying attention to old questions. |
| 18:35.48 | Ardonik | If it were spamming, that would be different, of course. |
| 18:38.28 | Ardonik | hyper_ch: You will get better help if you provide more information. We don't know what sort of filesystems you're dealing with, if the problem is reproducible with other applications, whether the problem happens in one directory and not others, and how many files are in the directory when the problem occurs. |
| 18:38.39 | Ardonik | There's a lot more information you can provide to get better answers. |
| 18:40.38 | hyper_ch | Ardonik: well, ext4 fs on a SSD. Problem reproducible with Okular but not with LibreOffice using the nativ filemanager which is some gtk thing I think. It happens in all directories... directories can contain a few files e.g. 5 or 100s and it's all the same |
| 18:41.43 | hyper_ch | the strange thing is that it only happens in file selection dialogues from kde apps.... but it doesn't happen when I use dolphin to browse the FS |
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| 18:42.19 | Ardonik | Is a network mount involved, or some other filesystem with slow access than might be inadvertently scanned? |
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| 18:50.21 | hyper_ch | Ardonik: several network filesystems are mounted |
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| 18:50.51 | Ardonik | hyper_ch: You should have mentioned that. That is important information that you left out of your problem description. |
| 18:50.58 | Ardonik | Unmount them and reproduce the problem. |
| 18:51.27 | hyper_ch | Ardonik: well, since I have no problems in dolphin, it didn't bother me.... since when network shares cause problems, usually dolphin also stalls |
| 18:51.46 | Ardonik | It depends on whether the program you're using tries to access the mounts. |
| 18:52.00 | Ardonik | Unmounting will allow you to either isolate the problem or rule that out as a cause. |
| 18:52.05 | Ardonik | Standard debugging techniques. |
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| 18:55.32 | hyper_ch | Ardonik: seems one of the mounts is a problem |
| 18:56.09 | Ardonik | Interesting that some apps are attempting to access the mount and not others -- but hey, that's at least a new data point. |
| 18:56.33 | hyper_ch | yeah, why does kate try to access the network mount when I goe file -> open |
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| 18:56.47 | hyper_ch | it just should display the home folder and no trying to access anything else |
| 18:56.51 | thiago | it's kfile probing all the mount points |
| 18:57.04 | hyper_ch | konqueror does the same |
| 18:57.14 | hyper_ch | thiago: why would kfile do that? |
| 18:57.22 | thiago | why not? |
| 18:57.32 | thiago | it needs to know if the mountpoint is really mounted |
| 18:57.44 | hyper_ch | why would it need to know that when I don't try to access it? |
| 18:58.01 | thiago | because it populates the location list on the left |
| 18:58.16 | hyper_ch | can that be disabled? |
| 18:58.25 | hyper_ch | and why isn't dolphin having the same issue? |
| 18:58.35 | thiago | no |
| 18:58.42 | hyper_ch | dolphin also has the mounts in the left |
| 18:58.43 | thiago | dolphin should have the exact same issue |
| 18:58.46 | hyper_ch | but doesn't stoll at all |
| 18:58.52 | hyper_ch | stall |
| 18:58.52 | thiago | there's no stalling |
| 18:58.55 | thiago | the network is available |
| 18:59.08 | hyper_ch | ? |
| 18:59.12 | thiago | NFS can *only* be used on a reliable and fast network |
| 18:59.18 | hyper_ch | I don't use nfs |
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| 18:59.30 | thiago | that's the only one we really care about |
| 18:59.39 | thiago | fuse mounts are treated like local filesystems |
| 18:59.44 | thiago | local means fast |
| 18:59.56 | hyper_ch | I use cifs mounts over several vpns |
| 19:00.06 | thiago | unmount and use smb:// |
| 19:00.21 | hyper_ch | they show up nicely in dolphin... no stalling at all |
| 19:00.38 | hyper_ch | however in Kate there's like 1-2 minutes for a simple change directory from ~ to / |
| 19:01.18 | hyper_ch | or in okular trying to change from ~ to ~/Desktop |
| 19:01.20 | thiago | the best thing you can do is stop the application when it's stalled and get a backtrace (with debug symbols) |
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| 19:01.31 | thiago | then report that. Maybe it's something that can be easily changed. |
| 19:01.39 | thiago | but, like I said, all network mounts must be fast |
| 19:01.50 | thiago | for slow network access, use KIO |
| 19:01.52 | hyper_ch | but I'm not accessing network mounds |
| 19:02.02 | thiago | you mounted, that's what counts. |
| 19:02.39 | hyper_ch | still sounds like bad design |
| 19:02.50 | thiago | bad design is to mount slow network fs |
| 19:03.01 | hyper_ch | why? |
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| 19:03.11 | thiago | mounting implies pull-style access (seek and read blocks) |
| 19:03.13 | hyper_ch | when I access that mount I will expect it |
| 19:03.22 | thiago | that's at odds with slowness |
| 19:03.29 | hyper_ch | but I don't expect any stalling when trying to change directory on the local fs |
| 19:03.35 | thiago | if it's slow, you want to use push-style access (get as much as possible, cache it) |
| 19:03.57 | thiago | anyway, backtrace of the stall point |
| 19:04.08 | hyper_ch | how to get that backtrace? |
| 19:04.09 | thiago | I can't do anything for you |
| 19:04.14 | thiago | attach gdb to the process |
| 19:04.25 | thiago | gdb -pid PID_GOES_HERE |
| 19:04.48 | thiago | or more easily: kill -ABRT PID_GOES_HERE |
| 19:04.53 | thiago | then drkonqi will show up |
| 19:05.53 | hyper_ch | first need to get kate-dbg |
| 19:07.00 | hyper_ch | kate is started in gdb... making directory change |
| 19:07.06 | hyper_ch | how to proceed? |
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| 19:11.14 | thiago | Ctrl+C when it stalls, then bt |
| 19:14.19 | hyper_ch | thiago: now drkonqi hates me |
| 19:14.28 | hyper_ch | I am at the sending part of the report |
| 19:14.37 | hyper_ch | but it refuses to send, tells me I need to login first |
| 19:14.42 | hyper_ch | which I did right at the beginning |
| 19:15.02 | thiago | copy the backtrace, that's enough |
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| 19:15.46 | hyper_ch | filing it against kate? |
| 19:15.47 | hyper_ch | or kfile? |
| 19:16.24 | thiago | if it happens in more than one applicaiton, it's definitely not kate's fault |
| 19:16.36 | hyper_ch | kate, okular, konqueror |
| 19:16.39 | hyper_ch | but not in dolphin |
| 19:16.55 | thiago | kfile looks like the culprit |
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| 19:18.43 | hyper_ch | thx |
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| 19:23.26 | ub1quit33 | is there a way to bookmark group chats on skype accounts in kopete? |
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| 19:25.53 | moviuro | ub1quit33: Skype -> is it really integrated within kopete? That would be a surprise ;) |
| 19:27.51 | ub1quit33 | moviuro: there is skype support. It requires a running skype client in the background, but it's there |
| 19:28.07 | moviuro | oh, didn't know of that ^_^ |
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| 19:33.50 | ub1quit33_ | is there a way to bookmark group chats on skype accounts in kopete? |
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| 19:44.42 | ub1quit33_ | sorry for the double post.. |
| 19:47.26 | acerspyro | ub1quit33_: Good luck on getting an answer... |
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| 19:49.00 | rebsadran | How can I make the panel calendar less ugly? |
| 19:49.21 | moviuro | rebsadran: already answered: change your plasma theme |
| 19:50.11 | rebsadran | oh thnx, missed it sorry for repeating myself |
| 19:51.12 | rebsadran | how do I change my plasma theme? |
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| 20:38.25 | aerofoam | I love kde. I just had the thought, "I want a taskbar on screen#2, but I want only programs on each display to show up on their respective task managers." Took 30 seconds to set up. |
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| 20:47.36 | em | I have a feature request for kwin -- A tiling window mode. |
| 20:47.54 | ChemBro | kwin had one |
| 20:48.05 | em | i don't think its there now. |
| 20:48.18 | ChemBro | that's why I wrote "had" |
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| 20:48.27 | em | Yeah I was affirming you. |
| 20:48.49 | em | ChemBro: it seems like it would be a nice feature i wonder why it went away |
| 20:49.05 | ChemBro | because no one wanted to fix it |
| 20:49.23 | em | what sort of skillset do you need to work on such things? |
| 20:49.34 | ChemBro | dunno, c++? |
| 20:49.38 | ChemBro | opengl? |
| 20:49.41 | em | kde runs on c++ ? |
| 20:49.48 | ChemBro | c++ and qt |
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| 20:51.08 | rebsadran | so wait stable kde5 is comming out pretty soon? |
| 20:51.44 | thiago | there will be no kde5 |
| 20:51.52 | thiago | kde will release plasma shell 5 soon |
| 20:52.39 | rebsadran | thnx |
| 20:52.43 | rebsadran | how soon is soon? |
| 20:52.48 | thiago | when it's ready |
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| 20:58.17 | em | thiago: there will never be a kde5 ? |
| 20:59.42 | thiago | em: correct |
| 21:00.07 | thiago | there will be a version of Plasma Shell build with KDE Frameworks 5 |
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| 21:03.13 | moviuro | em: there are tiling scripts out there in the wild |
| 21:03.42 | moviuro | em: on arch, it's in the AUR |
| 21:07.24 | moviuro | em: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=161151 |
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| 21:11.56 | em | thiago: i dont understand why there would never ever be a KDE 5 |
| 21:12.20 | thiago | em: it's a choice |
| 21:12.29 | thiago | em: there isn't a KDE 4 anymore |
| 21:12.36 | thiago | em: what you may be running is the Plasma Shell |
| 21:12.37 | em | what?! |
| 21:13.04 | thiago | KDE stopped releasing something called "KDE 4" years ago |
| 21:13.18 | thiago | it's been called Plasma Shell for a year or two |
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| 21:13.43 | thiago | anyway, for the next version, it's clear: it's called Plasma Shell |
| 21:14.07 | em | Can you tell me what the plasma shell is? |
| 21:14.46 | em | thiago: in the topic of this chat it says "KDE 4.13 is out!" |
| 21:14.47 | thiago | it's the desktop interface that the KDE community produces |
| 21:17.08 | em | this is very confusing |
| 21:17.19 | thiago | KDE is the name of the community |
| 21:17.28 | thiago | KDE produces a set of libraries, called KDE Frameworks 5 |
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| 21:17.36 | thiago | KDE produces a desktop interface, called Plasma Shell |
| 21:18.32 | em | when someone asks what desktop environment I use, what should I tell them? |
| 21:18.40 | thiago | Plasma Shell, by KDE |
| 21:18.56 | em | I am not sure many people are doing that. |
| 21:19.01 | em | I think most people will answer "KDE" |
| 21:19.07 | thiago | right |
| 21:19.14 | thiago | which is why we're trying to correct it for the next version |
| 21:19.29 | hid | yea |
| 21:19.58 | hid | as kde can run openbox you have to precise plasma shell |
| 21:20.13 | thiago | kde applications |
| 21:20.29 | em | so right now in my kubuntu 14.04 im probably using plasma shell 4 and in the future it will be plasma shell 5? |
| 21:20.36 | thiago | yes |
| 21:20.45 | hid | when? |
| 21:20.51 | em | hid: when you say "as kde can run openbox" how can that phrase make sense if KDE is a community rather than a program? |
| 21:21.29 | hid | kde = k desktop environment |
| 21:21.42 | em | hid: no its apparently the name of a community. |
| 21:21.43 | thiago | nope |
| 21:21.51 | hid | ohhh |
| 21:21.54 | thiago | not anymore |
| 21:22.04 | thiago | the expansion of "kde" has been dropped for a while |
| 21:22.13 | em | hid: i don't know what we call the desktop environment. I think we call it Plasma Shell |
| 21:22.52 | em | can anyone explain the concept of a shell like plasma shell? |
| 21:23.00 | hid | indeed |
| 21:23.03 | thiago | em: as opposed to what? |
| 21:23.06 | em | is it related to when you open a terminal and that's a shell? |
| 21:23.14 | thiago | no |
| 21:23.18 | thiago | the graphical interface is the shell |
| 21:23.20 | em | like ssh is a secure shell |
| 21:23.28 | em | ssh means secure shell |
| 21:23.32 | thiago | yes |
| 21:23.34 | djustice|FFF | explorer.exe is a shell. bash is a shell. gnome is a shell. etc |
| 21:23.37 | thiago | different meaning of shell |
| 21:23.38 | em | how is that related to Plasma Shell ? |
| 21:23.51 | em | well how does it all relate. what is the common meaning. |
| 21:23.58 | djustice|FFF | not really. operating interface environment. |
| 21:23.59 | thiago | then I'd say shell is the interface by which you get stuff done |
| 21:24.01 | em | what is the specific meaning for Plasma Shell? |
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| 21:24.34 | em | an interface... |
| 21:24.39 | djustice|FFF | em: a shell comprising of the plasma interface environment. |
| 21:24.53 | em | djustice|FFF: that's using the word shell in the definition!! |
| 21:24.57 | thiago | the plasma-desktop application |
| 21:25.11 | em | someone say what is the plasma shell without using the word plasma, shell, or interface. |
| 21:25.28 | thiago | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_shell - "In computing, a shell is a user interface for access to an operating system's services." |
| 21:25.31 | thiago | looks correct to me |
| 21:25.31 | em | what does it do, where does it show up, and how is it similar and different to its alternatives. When do you use it? |
| 21:25.55 | em | Why not call it a plasma interface. |
| 21:26.04 | em | Since every time someone asks what is a shell they say interface |
| 21:26.57 | djustice|FFF | em: are you a lawyer? your sense of ambiguity is lax. |
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| 21:27.32 | em | when i think of a desktop environment I think of a suite of software that has a common look and feel and perhaps works nicely with one another. |
| 21:27.42 | thiago | right |
| 21:27.47 | thiago | that could be a desktop environment |
| 21:27.53 | thiago | but you can run gedit in your Plasma Shell |
| 21:27.53 | em | is that different than what a plasma shell is? |
| 21:28.09 | em | thiago: see that's where you lose me. |
| 21:28.15 | thiago | why? |
| 21:28.27 | em | i can run gedit without a plasma shell also. |
| 21:28.31 | thiago | right |
| 21:28.40 | em | what is the plasma shell doing for gedit or for me when i use gedit with my plasma shell |
| 21:28.41 | thiago | but how did you start gedit in the first place? |
| 21:28.56 | djustice | coining the term 'shell' in the concept name is a little high on the nerd-o-meter. |
| 21:28.58 | em | so plamsa shell is krunner? |
| 21:29.02 | thiago | no |
| 21:29.08 | thiago | but krunner is part of the shell |
| 21:29.14 | thiago | the menu is also part of the shell |
| 21:29.17 | em | when i turn on my computer where is the plasma shell? |
| 21:29.23 | thiago | in your screen |
| 21:29.24 | djustice | em: shells/interfaces have things such as panels or app menus. lists of running windows. |
| 21:29.28 | thiago | everything you see is the shell |
| 21:30.05 | em | well im not trying to be difficult i appreciate the effort. |
| 21:30.35 | djustice | a wallpaper and such in some 1995+ shells. ;p |
| 21:30.55 | em | So the plasma shell is like the ensemble of menus and helper-software for running your other programs? |
| 21:31.00 | thiago | em: yes |
| 21:31.09 | thiago | including the window manager |
| 21:31.25 | em | This begins to sound like what we thought a desktop environment was |
| 21:31.28 | djustice | "graphical user interface", i think the iso wizards decided on. |
| 21:32.06 | thiago | I'd say that the "environment" is more like you said: a set of applications with common look and feel, with good integration with the shell |
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| 21:32.07 | djustice | em: the desktop environment is made of other 'invisible' things, the shell is the visible part of the de. so to speak. |
| 21:32.52 | thiago | I'd include your text editor in the environment |
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| 21:34.07 | em | I once figured out that vim is an editor but emacs is a desktop environment and if people would realize that there would be less fighting. |
| 21:34.09 | djustice | yep. klipper, kspeech, etc. not all apps really qualify as being part of the environment tho. they were called extragear once upon a time. 'apps' is the new term i think. ;) |
| 21:34.27 | djustice | vim users don't fight. |
| 21:34.44 | djustice | :%s/conflict//g |
| 21:34.47 | thiago | em: emacs is an OS :-) |
| 21:35.14 | djustice | it has interesting ascii games. |
| 21:35.27 | thiago | and an IRC client too |
| 21:36.06 | djustice | pft. kemacs konversationpart. haha. |
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| 21:36.48 | em | when i was brand new to linux i was a little annoyed at KDE apps all starting with K. I felt like it was kind of a joke that got taken too far. |
| 21:36.58 | em | It would be a little better to just give them nice names : ) |
| 21:37.32 | moviuro | em: side note: emacs is an OS ;) |
| 21:37.53 | moviuro | em: sprinter will replace krunner |
| 21:38.00 | em | ive heard that before but that cant be literally true right? |
| 21:38.10 | moviuro | kde-telepathy will replace kopete |
| 21:38.18 | moviuro | oh yes em, that's dead serious ;) |
| 21:38.24 | moviuro | though it started as a joke |
| 21:38.26 | em | I think emacs literaly qualifies as a desktop environment |
| 21:38.42 | djustice | moviuro: sprinter code is working somewhere? |
| 21:38.50 | moviuro | http://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html |
| 21:38.58 | moviuro | djustice: ask Aaron Seigo ;) |
| 21:39.15 | moviuro | (aka aseigo IIRC) |
| 21:39.22 | djustice | oh, sprinter is his? |
| 21:39.29 | djustice | i know aseigo ;p |
| 21:39.33 | moviuro | yes, from what I read on G+ |
| 21:39.59 | djustice | groovy. |
| 21:40.06 | em | I think Kate is a pretty nice editor |
| 21:40.12 | djustice | me and google don't get along. |
| 21:40.21 | djustice | em: +1 |
| 21:40.33 | djustice | kdevelop+vim ftw |
| 21:41.09 | em | kate probably has some plugin to give it vim key bindings? |
| 21:42.23 | djustice | em: it does. |
| 21:42.43 | em | I hope that future versions of Kwin will have a tiling mode. |
| 21:43.01 | djustice | vim keybindings aren't all that make vim awesome. |
| 21:43.02 | em | I saw there is some script but i dont know how to install that yet |
| 21:43.16 | djustice | em: that's way old... check window behavior kcm. |
| 21:43.26 | hid | are kdevelop and qtcreator the same? |
| 21:43.33 | em | djustice: huh? |
| 21:43.37 | hid | euh no |
| 21:43.39 | djustice | hid: no, one is kde, one is qt. |
| 21:43.53 | hid | are qt creator and xcode (on macosx) the same? |
| 21:44.05 | hid | the same kind of sofware (code + design) |
| 21:44.15 | djustice | em: window tiling has been around for a long time.. or do you mean 'unclutter windows'? that's in 'global shortcuts' -> kwin. |
| 21:44.19 | em | has qt become the mainstream interface language? |
| 21:44.53 | em | djustice: i dont see anyway to do windows tiling in my Kubuntu 14.04 |
| 21:45.12 | djustice | em: there are a few ways. hiding in the settings somewhere. |
| 21:45.28 | em | i mean it shoulld show all my open windows on the same screen, maybe on each workspace. |
| 21:45.30 | djustice | em: qt is likely one of the largest potential players in that market for the next 10 years. |
| 21:46.38 | em | maybe you can use kde and awesome window manager. |
| 21:46.52 | em | but i really like kwin |
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| 21:46.59 | em | i just want a window tiling mode. |
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| 21:50.37 | djustice | em: i promise it's in the settings somewhere. 'window behavior' somewhere is one of them. |
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| 21:56.35 | hid | em: can't you tile with kde? |
| 22:01.13 | demm | em: systemsettings > window behavior > KWin Scripts > Get New Scripts > searh tiling |
| 22:01.15 | demm | http://opendesktop.org/content/show.php?content=161151 |
| 22:01.28 | demm | *search |
| 22:04.41 | moviuro | em: I told you where to find tiling -_-" |
| 22:04.58 | moviuro | (one hour ago) |
| 22:05.32 | moviuro | also, if the script's maintainer is here, I have some 'bug' (?) reports |
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| 22:08.31 | AndrzejL | Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww |
| 22:08.59 | AndrzejL | :D |
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