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| 00:02.22 | Oleg_ | canllaith, you are back!! it's been a long time! |
| 00:04.16 | Oleg_ | canllaith, the last we spoke to each other was like 17 years ago |
| 00:08.26 | Oleg_ | time flies |
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| 00:23.13 | *** topic/#kde is KDE Plasma 5.10 and KDE Applications 17.04 are out! See www.kde.org | http://userbase.kde.org | http://forum.kde.org | Don't flood the channel, use http://paste.kde.org | Distro related questions go in your distro channel | Offtopic in #kde-chat | State your distribution and KDE version when asking questions | Don't delete ~/.kde,~/.kde4,~/.local or ~/.config |
| 00:24.34 | nurupo | on windows, when computer reaches extreme temperatures, the systems goes into a hibernation to prevent damage. would be nice to have someting like that as part of plasma. though i could just probably write a bash script for that and cron it to run every minute |
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| 01:22.25 | ahjolinna | wait doesn't the motherboard do this (aka turn off the PC if too high temps)? I know that windows starts to complain at least about high temps ... u can get that warning notification with this https://github.com/kotelnik/plasma-applet-thermal-monitor |
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| 05:55.23 | aznman1111 | hi |
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| 06:57.01 | shtrb | Good Morning |
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| 07:14.27 | bartman2589 | Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone can help me with some issues I'm having with KDE (specifically Mint KDE 18.1, though the issues were present on Kubuntu as well). If I choose a window decoration that has rounded corners I see the decoration as having square corners when applied. And when I choose 'thin' for the border thickness it still looks very thick to me (compared to previous versions of KDE, pre-QT5 that is). |
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| 07:19.58 | shtrb | Any idea for pdf editor that can fill forms (to avoid editing it as an image) ? |
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| 07:24.51 | themill | depends on how the form is done; okular can do it |
| 07:25.40 | shtrb | Is there a plugin for that ? |
| 07:26.10 | themill | none needed that I know of |
| 07:27.13 | shtrb | I don't see how I can do that (maybe the pdf itself is bad ) |
| 07:27.33 | themill | it might not actually be a form |
| 07:32.18 | shtrb | I tried with annotations but it doesn't seem to be shown if reopen the file with Firefox for example |
| 07:33.31 | themill | be careful about saving the file to a new location and that the pdf viewer you use actually supports them |
| 07:33.36 | kishore96_ | shtrb: In okular, the annotations don't modify the file itself. They are stored separately from the PDF. |
| 07:35.41 | shtrb | I see,my goal is to fill tax forms (fill and send type) (It seems that they started to support email and not only snail mail and fax) |
| 07:35.55 | themill | kishore96_: that's not actually correct |
| 07:36.01 | shtrb | thanks kishore96_ |
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| 07:36.59 | jaggz | I have some black widget icons.. anyone know about this? |
| 07:37.09 | jaggz | I restarted plasmashell and they're still there |
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| 07:37.51 | jaggz | it's weird -- hexchat has one which appears to be a part of its own window, in the upper left corner of the screen |
| 07:38.54 | themill | shtrb: okular can save notations into the PDF; firefox cannot display them. |
| 07:39.15 | shtrb | themill , oh in that case my option is to edit as an image correct ? |
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| 07:39.39 | jaggz | http://pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=116696 |
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| 07:40.20 | themill | shtrb: I'd be worried that whatever you produce is not correctly read by whomever will receive it. |
| 07:40.37 | themill | shtrb: but yes, something like xournal might be your best bet |
| 07:41.16 | jaggz | and here's system tray one: http://pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=116697 |
| 07:41.36 | jaggz | is there any testing I can do to help out, since it's happening to me right now? |
| 07:43.43 | baizon | jaggz: try disabling compositor |
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| 07:44.43 | jaggz | baizon, can it be disabled live, or is a reboot needed? |
| 07:44.49 | baizon | live |
| 07:44.52 | jaggz | (or a re-run of X) |
| 07:45.04 | jaggz | how do you disable it? |
| 07:45.46 | baizon | google should help |
| 07:45.47 | jaggz | if it's desktop effects, I have a hotkey for that |
| 07:46.03 | josef64 | Strg+Alt+F12 |
| 07:47.22 | jaggz | oh it's been renamed to "suspend compositing".. neat. |
| 07:47.49 | jaggz | doesn't fix it.. but I'm not sure how to tell if compositing is on or off |
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| 07:48.44 | baizon | jaggz: which graphics card and drivers do you use? |
| 07:48.50 | jaggz | nvidia nonfree |
| 07:49.08 | jaggz | I don't see an Effects area in settings anymore |
| 07:49.23 | jaggz | there we are.. n/m.. |
| 07:49.30 | baizon | jaggz: nvidia, so im out :) |
| 07:49.44 | baizon | jaggz: try to log out and in again |
| 07:50.30 | jaggz | yeah.. using nvidia because I do a lot of gpu-enhanced work (3d reconstruction and neural networking); I have to use their cuda stuff |
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| 07:51.42 | jaggz | the system settings -> desktop behavior -> desktop effects area needs some loving.. no tooltips over the little icons to explain what they are |
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| 07:53.40 | kishore96_ | The annotations are stored in ~/.local/share/okular/docdata/ |
| 07:54.35 | jaggz | hmm.. lots of shortcuts are mapped to meta-, which isn't working -- my alt key is accepted as "Alt-" if I set a custom shortcut |
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| 07:56.00 | kishore96_ | jaggz: There should be an option in your keyboard settings to switch meta and left-alt, if you *really* need a meta key. |
| 07:56.14 | jaggz | baizon, switching the rendering backend back and forth fixed the icons, for now |
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| 07:56.33 | jaggz | not sure if my disable/reenable compositor shortcut is working at all |
| 07:57.15 | jaggz | kishore96_, I don't -- it's just that all the shortcuts seem to be using "meta-", and none of them are working :) |
| 07:57.45 | baizon | jaggz: then try to force enable it |
| 07:57.52 | baizon | dont let it to be turned off |
| 07:58.05 | baizon | that also fixed many issues i had with it |
| 07:58.11 | baizon | i just have force enalbe it |
| 07:59.12 | baizon | its the "allow applications to block compositing" |
| 07:59.16 | baizon | disable that option |
| 08:01.18 | jaggz | baizon, eenteresting :) |
| 08:01.36 | jaggz | I've been thinking about making a compost pile at home |
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| 08:02.46 | jaggz | win key is going through as meta.. there we go.. |
| 08:02.56 | jaggz | that's good |
| 08:04.29 | jaggz | ooh.. a fisheye lens zoom at mouse position -- WHILE I'm able to use the computer -- is really nice |
| 08:04.49 | jaggz | not that that's particularly useful, but the zoom I had in windows would freeze up the display while you used it |
| 08:07.33 | jaggz | several things resolved! very refreshing. Thank you baizon, kishore96, josef64 |
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| 08:10.51 | nurupo | i'd like to undo this "Add as Launcher" action, but i can't find any "Launcher" thing |
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| 10:05.37 | BluesKaj | Howdy folks |
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| 11:14.36 | Frogmorton | Hi, I upgraded my Debian to Stretch and tried the latest KDE supported on Debian 9. When I'm using a form the area around the mouse is in focus but the rest of the form goes blurry and hard to read. Is there an easy way to stop this horrid artefact in KDE? |
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| 11:25.32 | nurupo | any way to get kde4 widgets to work in plasma 5.8? |
| 11:25.51 | asturm | nope. |
| 11:26.03 | asturm | they'd need to be rewritten |
| 11:26.26 | nurupo | i'm sad |
| 11:27.42 | nurupo | can't even resize widgets in plasma 5.8 :\ |
| 11:27.48 | asturm | sure you can. long left click |
| 11:27.57 | nurupo | oh |
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| 11:30.32 | nurupo | didn't know that |
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| 11:32.26 | asturm | nurupo: you're not the first and you won't be the last |
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| 11:34.37 | tosky | Frogmorton: a form on the desktop? |
| 11:34.55 | Frogmorton | Yes, config windows, that sort of thing |
| 11:37.15 | Frogmorton | Its while the window is active, not a fade-out of an inactive window |
| 11:37.50 | tosky | uhm, I didn't see that |
| 11:38.05 | tosky | can you take a screenshot? (spectacle should do it) |
| 11:41.36 | nurupo | asturm: do you know, by any chance, how to enable horizontal lines with % values for CPU Load Monitor widget? or horizontal lines with GiB values for Memory Monitor widget? or horizontal lines with bandwidth usage values for Netwok Monitor? maybe they are implemented but i don't know how to enable them. e.g. here is a screenshot of kde4 vs plasma 5.8 widgets http://i.imgur.com/in0bO44.png |
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| 11:43.50 | Frogmorton | Well it seems to have stopped doing it after a restart. Never mind |
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| 11:44.47 | asturm | nurupo: nope, sorry. |
| 11:45.03 | asturm | maybe find alternatives on store.kde.org |
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| 11:51.11 | nurupo | kind of wish my distro still provided kde4 option, in addition to plasma 5 |
| 11:51.58 | nurupo | though i guess kde4 is no longer supported |
| 11:52.13 | nurupo | which is why they dropped providing it |
| 11:52.45 | tosky | it has been not supported for a (long) while |
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| 12:06.19 | asturm | 2 years I think |
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| 13:24.01 | nurupo | is it me, or the fonts on plasma 5 look a bit different from kde4? the spacing between letters in plasma 5 is a bit smaller, and in general a font of the same point size on kde4 and plasma 5 seem to have different pixel sizes (or something else different. the kde4 font of the same size looks a bit bigger) |
| 13:26.43 | nurupo | kde4 https://i.imgur.com/Jo8TDiR.png vs palasma 5 https://i.imgur.com/AXJjTw2.png |
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| 13:30.32 | tosky | nurupo: the font rendering comes from Qt5 |
| 13:30.35 | nurupo | even the number 9 looks a bit different, the one on kde4 has a line at the end of its hook going up, while on plasma 5 it doesn't |
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| 13:31.22 | nurupo | and if you zoom in, the kde4 font has blue-red pixels, while plasma 5 is all black and gradiants of gray |
| 13:32.52 | nurupo | anyone knows how to return those blue and red pixels back? to me they make text sharper. plasma 5 text looks a bit blurish |
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| 13:33.10 | nurupo | maybe play with anti-aliasing |
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| 13:44.26 | oprypin | nurupo, it's in that window - sub-pixel rendering |
| 13:44.41 | oprypin | if you changed to a good font that could do wonders |
| 13:45.13 | oprypin | dammit I hate how in Chromium I can't view an image at its original resolution. just scales everything and screw you |
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| 13:46.40 | oprypin | also if you're using the old Oxygen theme in Plasma 5 you're gonna have a bad time. it hasn't been properly adapted |
| 13:47.11 | tosky | which theme? The plasma theme, or the theme for the widgets? |
| 13:47.25 | oprypin | eh both |
| 13:48.27 | wget | Hi guys. Any idea how to run trigger scripts from the kde power management tool but with admin rights. I mean I want to enforce laptop mode when AC is off and disable laptop mode when I'm back to AC. |
| 13:49.07 | wget | Calling manually /usr/bin/laptop_mode init stop was easy enough, but it seems like the power management tool of kde is not run with admin rights by default :-/ |
| 13:49.36 | oprypin | good question |
| 13:50.18 | oprypin | i can think of some advanced workarounds so it works without admin rights, but dont know otherwise |
| 13:51.29 | wget | oprypin: yep sure, I could trigger scripts using acpi but this requires me to run yet another daemon (acpid) |
| 13:51.39 | wget | I wanted to avoid that :) |
| 14:01.48 | nurupo | yeah, i noticed that the oxygen theme is a bit off |
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| 14:04.51 | nurupo | wget: you might be able to provide passwordless sudo to certain whitelisted programs, i think |
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| 14:18.04 | nurupo | oprypin: is it weird that i prefer the sub-pixel rendering with blue and red pixels so that text looks sharper? |
| 14:18.31 | nurupo | maybe i'm a bit too used to windows and kde4 font renderings |
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| 14:23.07 | oprypin | nurupo, i dunno, maybe it is sharper, but i think there are more downsides than upsides to it |
| 14:23.33 | oprypin | the obvious one being what business does the text have showing random red pixels, can get annoying |
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| 14:27.15 | Combined2857 | I've heard the latest versions of KDE have become very stable with almost no bugs, is that true? I'm thiking of switching |
| 14:27.44 | oprypin | Combined2857, yeah sure |
| 14:27.54 | oprypin | (no sarcasm) |
| 14:28.39 | Combined2857 | ah nice, as soon as the next version of manjaro is out I'm switching then |
| 14:28.46 | tosky | have to say again that it's the latest version of Plasma, there are no versions of KDE |
| 14:29.28 | nurupo | yep, enabled sub-pixel rendering and text looks ways better than it used to |
| 14:30.22 | nurupo | oprypin: well, you don't actually see the read and blue colors unless you zoom in a lot, black text still looks black without any red or blue in it, it just looks better, at least on my screen (might be screen-specific?) |
| 14:30.53 | nurupo | not really a font expert |
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| 14:51.47 | Panoplos | Anyone around who can help with kio-gdrive setup? |
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| 15:09.43 | rislam | hi, which package should i use for facebook chat? any advice |
| 15:10.03 | oprypin | chromium |
| 15:10.08 | rislam | purple-facebook is not working |
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| 15:10.17 | pLaTo0n | hi |
| 15:10.51 | pLaTo0n | I'm looking for a distro with a good out-of-the-box kde experience, what would you recommend? |
| 15:11.04 | maldoinc | manjaro would be good |
| 15:11.09 | oprypin | ugh |
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| 15:11.44 | maldoinc | or jst Arch if you can manage to install everything manually, the default KDE is fine and I personally do not like manjaro's theme changes on KDE |
| 15:12.34 | pLaTo0n | what about kubuntu? is it good? |
| 15:13.13 | maldoinc | it's fine, but if you're looking for ubuntu based distros then KDE Neon would be better since it's the official distro for kde |
| 15:14.21 | pLaTo0n | kde neon sounds good, didn't really know it |
| 15:14.42 | pLaTo0n | is it stable enough for every day use? |
| 15:16.15 | maldoinc | yeah, definitely. I suggested it to a friend of mine who is newish to linux |
| 15:16.24 | maldoinc | and he's using it for 6-7 months now without any issues |
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| 15:18.17 | Panoplos | I used Ubuntu 17.04 + Plasma 5.10 from Kubuntu Backports |
| 15:18.22 | Panoplos | works very well for me |
| 15:18.33 | Panoplos | s/used/use/ |
| 15:19.31 | Panoplos | KDE Neon is based off Ubuntu 16.04, so you will have some outdated packages. |
| 15:19.43 | Panoplos | or was it 16.10, |
| 15:19.47 | Panoplos | one or the other |
| 15:20.12 | BluesKaj | kde/neon is supposed to have bleeding edge packages |
| 15:20.21 | Panoplos | for KDE |
| 15:20.25 | maldoinc | bleeding edge kde packages mostly |
| 15:20.49 | pLaTo0n | I'll try manjaro and neon |
| 15:20.58 | oprypin | :( |
| 15:21.20 | Panoplos | KDE just released 17.04/Applications builds, which I targeting Ubuntu 17.04 |
| 15:21.58 | pLaTo0n | maybe I should create some VMs and try it :D |
| 15:22.15 | Panoplos | s/I/are/ |
| 15:22.35 | dontknow | pLaTo0n, definitely debian stretch |
| 15:23.09 | pLaTo0n | wasn't this stable? |
| 15:23.17 | dontknow | sure |
| 15:23.35 | pLaTo0n | debian stable is way too old stuff |
| 15:23.54 | dontknow | so is ubuntu |
| 15:24.04 | dontknow | stretch released las week |
| 15:24.07 | dontknow | last* |
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| 15:24.36 | pLaTo0n | oh ok |
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| 15:25.27 | tosky | Panoplos: KDE Applications 17.04 is totally unrelated with Ubuntu 17.04 (and it does not contain the desktop, Plasma, which has a different schedule and different numbering) |
| 15:25.29 | BluesKaj | I'm running debian stretch/stable, but the packages all work fine, quicker than kubunru aamof. edgy isn'r necessarily better |
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| 15:26.59 | Panoplos | @tosky Seriously? Why do the XX.X/Application branches in git map to Ubuntu releases |
| 15:27.24 | tosky | Panoplos: it does not |
| 15:28.11 | tosky | you may want to read https://dot.kde.org/2013/09/04/kde-release-structure-evolves and https://community.kde.org/Schedules |
| 15:28.22 | Panoplos | Haha...ok, then just coincidence ... |
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| 15:35.23 | saptech | so kde neon is based on ubuntu? interesting |
| 15:35.43 | nurupo | rislam: if you want stability, try KDE Neon -- Ubuntu LTS with bleeding edge KDE packages. if you want bleeding edge everything but willing to get the packages a week or two later for better stability, openSUSE Tumbleweed should be good for that. maybe also Debian Testing, but, uh, life in Debian Testing might be somewhat tough so i'd try to avoid using it. if you want bleeding edge everything without any stability expectation, then just chose any |
| 15:35.44 | nurupo | rolling distro that updates sufficiently fast, e.g. arch linux, gentoo, etc. |
| 15:36.35 | pLaTo0n | so manjaro is also rolling release, but not the same repos as arch, right? |
| 15:36.46 | pLaTo0n | what are the differences? |
| 15:36.55 | saptech | depends if he want's a stable production system or a bleeding edge system |
| 15:37.16 | dontknow | manjaro waits a little bit for uptede for the sake of stability |
| 15:37.24 | pLaTo0n | that sounds good |
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| 15:47.18 | asturm | nurupo: gentoo does have a stable branch with 5.8 LTS btw |
| 15:47.47 | rislam | nurupo: good to hear from you. thanks for the lots of choices but currently and more specifically looking for some plugins for pidgins or even possible default kde messenger from where i can keep in touch in almost all chat or im or irc |
| 15:48.42 | nurupo | sorry, don't use any other im besides irc |
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| 16:38.36 | saptech | how do I get file association setup in dolphin? everytime I double click a text file in dolphin, it opens in LO Writer |
| 16:38.56 | saptech | I want it to open in kwrite |
| 16:39.17 | asturm | saptech: systemsettings -> applications |
| 16:39.31 | saptech | ok |
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| 16:42.40 | saptech | hmmm, the Apply button is greyed out, as if I can't change it. Any idea why? |
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| 17:12.39 | maldoinc | Can we ever get this fixed in KDE? It's literally the ugliest context menu possible. Why do the checkboxes and icons need separate space smh... Literally no other DE does this not to mention there's no action that requires both a checkbox and an icon >>> https://i.imgur.com/BYoazem.png |
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| 17:13.54 | tosky | maldoinc: it's not "KDE", it's part of the style |
| 17:14.15 | tosky | maldoinc: and there are actions with both icons and a checkbox |
| 17:14.31 | maldoinc | I figured that it's intentional |
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| 17:14.49 | maldoinc | such as? |
| 17:15.08 | tosky | here in konversation, Settings menu |
| 17:15.38 | maldoinc | I was thinking about context menus, which is what that one is |
| 17:15.39 | tosky | just one, I can find more |
| 17:15.43 | tosky | menus are menus iirc |
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| 17:23.29 | maldoinc | Seems like a weird design choice |
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| 17:25.47 | neotom | IDENTIFY |
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| 17:31.09 | nurupo | ><maldoinc> such as? <-- on your screenshot, go into "More Actions" item |
| 17:31.58 | nurupo | idk, i'm fine with it |
| 17:32.28 | nurupo | what i'm not fine with, though, is not having a proper oxygen look&feel and theme for plasma 5 :\ |
| 17:33.31 | m5w | Hello. Is there a way to change the time format of the *login* (not lock) screen without manually editing the InfoPane.qml script? (See https://askubuntu.com/questions/783184/how-to-display-kde-lock-screen-time-in-24-hour-format#784181) |
| 17:34.10 | m5w | I changed my locale to a custome locale with 24-hour time, and the clock in the bottom-right corner of my desktop and on the lock screen are now in 24-hour format |
| 17:34.28 | nurupo | i guess it might be a better idea to try to modify breeze theme into something i'd be fine using |
| 17:34.44 | tosky | m5w: the answer there is about the lock screen; the login screen is sddm |
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| 17:42.08 | maldoinc | nurupo: Yeah, they're not necessary? I'm sure people can understand "Keep above others" action regardless of the icon or not. And the context menus with scarce icons and checkboxes look downright ugly since they're not aligned. Case in point taskbar's context menu |
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| 17:42.51 | maldoinc | I'd much rather have something like this https://i.imgur.com/4ItEsuN.png |
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| 18:27.42 | jaggz | my speaker icon is showing where my wifi status icon should be |
| 18:28.21 | jaggz | when I mouse-over the speaker, it shows my wifi status.. when I click it, it pop up wicd network manager. |
| 18:28.22 | oprypin | jaggz, is it misplaced or.. if you press the speaker icon you see wifi settings? |
| 18:28.40 | oprypin | maybe it's the new wicd logo lol |
| 18:28.51 | jaggz | lol, no.. :) |
| 18:28.58 | dontknow | wicd is still exist? |
| 18:29.09 | jaggz | I just killed and re-started it and it fixed it |
| 18:30.16 | jaggz | dontknow, I guess so.. although the network manager doesn't show my wifi nets.. |
| 18:30.26 | jaggz | I wouldn't mind removing useless stuff |
| 18:30.50 | dontknow | everything is fine on debian stretch |
| 18:31.01 | dontknow | your distros sucks |
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| 18:31.31 | jaggz | this is stretch |
| 18:31.37 | dontknow | xD |
| 18:31.52 | jaggz | just that it's a few year old system that was updated over time |
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| 19:00.33 | salamanderrake | where would I look to get the logs for kde/plasma crashing? |
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| 19:04.18 | fuze | salamanderrake: have you tried just running plasmashell in terminal? |
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| 19:06.47 | galvao | Gretings. Can someone please help me with this topic: https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/question/107080/problems-after-interrupting-kbuildsycoca4/ |
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| 19:13.33 | salamanderrake | fuze: no, I should try that. |
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| 20:02.10 | jajo | Hello |
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| 22:30.18 | armin | any hint how to assign a custom keyboard shortcut to "close window"? tried from system settings -> shortcuts -> global shortcuts, but there's no "kwin" component listed. |
| 22:31.10 | saptech | how do I remove an icon from the bottom tray? |
| 22:31.26 | asturm | saptech: unlock widgets, right click and remove |
| 22:31.49 | saptech | widgets are unlock |
| 22:32.01 | asturm | then open the panel settings |
| 22:33.16 | saptech | when I open panel settings, the one on top of panel(horizontally)? |
| 22:34.33 | asturm | yes. |
| 22:34.57 | asturm | and then you'll find new possibilities when hovering over your icons |
| 22:35.09 | saptech | ok, but I don't see what it have to do with the icon, which is konqueror |
| 22:35.16 | saptech | ok |
| 22:35.33 | saptech | wow |
| 22:35.44 | saptech | so they took simple and turned it into hard |
| 22:36.29 | saptech | asturm, thanks |
| 22:36.48 | asturm | it's not hard to figure out with a medium amount of curiousity |
| 22:37.41 | saptech | you have to look at it from a new person to linux and I'm not new |
| 22:38.18 | saptech | but I'm also not a big fan of kde. I have used it in the past |
| 22:38.33 | asturm | doing things the first time is hard, regardless what you do |
| 22:38.47 | asturm | so that's not really a linux or plasma matter |
| 22:39.11 | saptech | so changing from right click the icon and remove, this new way is better? |
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| 22:40.49 | asturm | changing, coming from where? |
| 22:41.22 | saptech | lol...I really don't know |
| 22:41.35 | saptech | kde4 didn't right click the icon? |
| 22:41.42 | asturm | I don't think so |
| 22:41.46 | saptech | ok |
| 22:42.33 | saptech | I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt, but how would someone new to plasma know to remove icons this way? |
| 22:42.58 | asturm | â[00:36] â<âasturmâ>â it's not hard to figure out with a medium amount of curiousity |
| 22:43.31 | saptech | ok |
| 22:43.48 | asturm | if you the panel 'unlocked-by-default' you will soon have many people asking how to get back their task manager |
| 22:44.00 | asturm | or system tray |
| 22:44.22 | saptech | I have found that out the hard way |
| 22:44.41 | asturm | don't feel bad |
| 22:45.17 | saptech | heh |
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| 23:33.47 | adam_ | Hi, trying to get my meta key to open the application menu. This used to work for me with the application launcher and with the menu too when I switched the alt+f1 shortcut to the menu. But then I got the bright idea to remove all my panels and use latte dock as a panel instead. Can't seem to get the application menu widget in latte to open with the meta key even though it does currently open with alt+f1 |
| 23:34.14 | adam_ | system: kubuntu 17.04, plasma 5.94, frameworks 5.31, Qt 5.7.1 |
| 23:34.40 | adam_ | any help will be appreciated |
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