IRC log for #ldstech on 20120215

00:19.18*** join/#ldstech goiresfernando1 (bb405812@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.64.88.18)
00:21.48goiresfernando1question
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00:28.06goiresfernando1questiuon
00:28.16goiresfernando1question
00:32.39scgallafentHello, goiresfernando1.
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15:47.19*** join/#ldstech tomjohnson (~JohnsonTH@proxy.lds.org)
15:47.43smootarI thought we had the roles of Observer, QA, Dev, etc. documented on our wiki.  I can't find it right off.  Can anyone remind me where this might be?
15:51.21*** join/#ldstech thehpguy (~ChrisWhit@c-76-20-19-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
15:55.38scgallafentsmootar: Google search doesn't see them.
15:55.57smootarThe closest thing I found was this: http://tech.lds.org/index.php/component/content/article/1-miscellanous/381-the-ldstech-website-project
15:56.08smootarBut is mentions changing roles in passing.
15:56.21smootarWe need to document this and make it easy to find.
15:56.29smootarI'll add it to Jira.
15:56.59smootarIt should state what Jira, SVN, Google Groups, etc. do in each role.
15:57.04smootarMaybe in a table form or something.
15:57.07smootarJust a thought.
15:57.24scgallafentThere is also http://tech.lds.org/index.php/component/content/article/1-miscellanous/361-new-site-features-integrate-with-community-projects
15:57.40scgallafent(Would have been helpful to have seen that one a while ago!)
16:00.41smootar************************************************
16:00.41smootar***** Begin - LDSTech Meeting - 15 FEB 2012 ****
16:00.41smootar************************************************
16:00.46smootarWho is all here?
16:00.46scgallafentmoin
16:01.00tdeforesthi
16:01.09tccastaldoHi.
16:01.11thehpguyMoin smootar
16:01.17smootarmoin all
16:01.26smootarscgallafent, do you want to start?
16:01.33scgallafent<novel>
16:01.33scgallafentI've been updating the GGroups implementation to deal with some of the issues in the v2.6 update.
16:01.33scgallafentWhen I added GGroups support, I changed the member join/left emails to go to the group if the group was provisioned.
16:01.33scgallafentIn the process I changed the behavior for non-group projects to be consistent with that design and deliver
16:01.33scgallafentmessages to everyone on the project. This was a big inadvertent change to the existing design and has generated
16:01.33scgallafenta bit of ... unhappiness. I had also used the "Receive Team Emails" flag to control whether team members were added
16:01.33scgallafentto the groups.
16:01.34scgallafentI'm just about finished with changes that update that. Once these changes go into production:
16:01.34scgallafent* Team member join/leave/add/remove/change notices will go "to" project managers and "bcc" any non-observers who have
16:01.35scgallafent"Receive Team Emails" checked.
16:01.35scgallafent* Project status change and project deleted messages go "to" project managers and "bcc" everyone else.
16:01.36scgallafent* TimRiker added a message to the email function that tells how to unsubscribe (by unchecking the Receive Team Emails
16:01.36scgallafentcheck box). That will only be appended to messages that are affected by the check box.
16:01.37scgallafent--
16:01.37scgallafentI'm also finishing some changes to implement announce-only groups. The Local Unit Apps Beta project manager sent an
16:01.38scgallafentemail about the maps and lesson schedules being in beta. That generated a flurry of discussion on the mailing list
16:01.38scgallafent(beta maps was down at the time). He doesn't want that discussion on the list, so we're implementing announce-only
16:01.39scgallafentGGroups for projects that want that functionality.
16:01.39scgallafent--
16:01.40scgallafentI should be done with these two groups of changes in the next couple of hours. They're significant enough and causing
16:01.40scgallafentenough pain that we should probably update production as soon as they're ready.
16:01.41scgallafent--
16:01.42scgallafentThere are some other changes that will come shortly behind. They're listed in JIRA as v2.6.1.
16:01.42scgallafent</novel>
16:02.46smootar?)
16:02.48smootar:)
16:02.53smootarSounds good.
16:03.11smootarWe had some complaints about how this was implemented, so this should address those.
16:03.15smootarThank you!
16:03.39smootarWe also need to document this well.
16:03.50scgallafentThere are comments in the code. :)
16:03.54tdeforest~give scgallafent 1000 thank you's
16:03.54infobotACTION gives 1000 thank you's to scgallafent
16:04.02scgallafentblushes
16:04.08smootarThis should probably be put into the roles document.
16:04.20scgallafentThe idea of adding a roles list makes sense.
16:04.39smootar~give scgallafent a chance to fly if he comes to Utah.
16:04.39infobotACTION gives a chance to fly if he comes to Utah. to scgallafent
16:05.06scgallafentI'll also cover this when I work with the volunteer tomjohnson has to document and with the blog article about it.
16:05.27smootarThat would be great.  I was asked about roles this morning and didn't have anywhere to point him.
16:05.34smootartdeforest, ?
16:05.55tdeforestfixed a few minor bugs after the launch of 2.6
16:06.24smootarsees a 2.6 patch coming.
16:06.29tdeforestalan brown reported a bug to me that i have not been able to reproduce in firefox on linux or mac. hoping it's a ghost
16:06.34scgallafentcreated v2.6.1 in JIRA
16:06.49smootarGreat, I was just going to do that.
16:07.21tdeforestworking to add info to attendee packet.
16:07.35tdeforestminor updates to other artwork
16:07.52smootarmarks 2.6 released on 13 Feb.
16:07.57tdeforesti still need to add a link to ldstech chapters - this was a request from smootar
16:08.02smootar:)
16:08.17tdeforesti guess we can add it to 2.6.1 :)
16:08.24smootarI would like to update that page to show that Chet Harmer will be managing the LDSTech Chapters moving forward.
16:08.40smootarChet is in Silicon Valley.
16:08.45tdeforestgood thinking
16:08.59tdeforestdo you have his info?
16:09.13smootarI do, but I would like to have him review it before we put it out there.
16:09.42smootarAnything else tdeforest ?
16:09.42tdeforesti responded to a design by BroSki for the lapel pin.
16:09.49tdeforestnot sure where we're at with those
16:09.52smootarI did see that, thanks.
16:10.24smootarI need to make a decision on that today.
16:10.38smootarCan you send me your design one more time?
16:10.46tdeforesti'd like to discuss putting together a style guide for ldstech at some point. this would help designers and others make contributions to ldstech
16:10.50tdeforestsmootar: yes
16:11.01smootartdeforest, great idea.
16:11.09smootarIs that something that you can create?
16:11.14tdeforestyes
16:11.25smootarDoes it need input from others?
16:11.29tccastaldoreally likes that idea
16:11.51smootarOr just a review from others?
16:11.55tdeforestit would be good to have input for coding standards from timriker and writing standards from tomjohnson. i can work with them.
16:11.57tccastaldoCan you make one for the Java Stack, too?
16:12.01tdeforesta review by everyone would be good
16:12.16smootarGreat thanks.
16:12.19tdeforesttccastaldo: haha.
16:12.31smootartccastaldo, ?
16:12.33tdeforestthat is all
16:12.36smootarthx
16:12.43tccastaldoI've been working on a fix in Scheduler that enforces the paper submission deadline.
16:12.44tccastaldoHowever, at our meeting yesterday, it sounded like some items (booths, for instance) would have a different deadline;
16:12.44tccastaldosome things are due today, but other things are due March 1, meaning there are actually two deadlines while Scheduler only allows one.
16:12.44tccastaldoSo I'm not sure whether I want to check in the fix or not.
16:12.46tccastaldoRegardless, today I'm going to figure out why feedback isn't working right (two of the 11 bugs classified by TimRiker as being pertinent to this release).
16:12.49tccastaldoWhen is EPIS supposed to start working on this?  Or are they already?
16:13.06*** join/#ldstech TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker)
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16:13.28smootarEPIS should be engaged already.
16:13.37smootarTimRiker, got them going
16:13.47smootarmoin TimRiker
16:13.48tccastaldoIf so, it doesn't look like anyone has checked anything in yet.
16:13.51TimRikermoin
16:14.00smootarOK
16:14.01tccastaldoDo they have access to the repository?
16:14.07TimRikernot heard from them this week. I'll email them and see how it's going.
16:14.17smootargreat.
16:14.21tccastaldoThat's a great idea.
16:14.34TimRikerwell, they have read access. I asked them to holler to get write access, but nobody has yet.
16:14.47smootartccastaldo, anything else?
16:14.53tccastaldoNo, that's all.
16:14.56smootarTimRiker, ?
16:15.32TimRikerpushed out some our ldstech release monday. gg performance issues caused scgallafent to disable that for the time being.
16:15.50smootarscgallafent, has novel above.
16:15.56TimRikerworking on some cleanup on joomla again. hope to remove the display of joinid and itemid whereever I can.
16:16.15TimRikeritemid is redundant. joinid is user specific so urls can't be set to others.
16:16.24scgallafentremoved a couple of spots where itemid was causing a "not defined" error after TimRiker made his change
16:17.12smootarsend novel to TimRiker
16:17.14smootarsent novel
16:17.26TimRikerscgallafent, cool. I have more updates to send in on that. probably some of the same fixes. :)
16:18.02TimRikerfixed the admin filtering so filtering by search works when a group is also used for filtering. also combined sql queries
16:18.34TimRikerso that searching for groups is faster. need to check that searching by role still works, might be some speed improvements there too.
16:18.56TimRikerin general it's great to be back in php instead of java stack. :)
16:19.14smootar:)
16:19.16TimRikerbut I need to dig into coda next. java again. wanna play tccastaldo?
16:19.28tccastaldoOooooo!
16:19.32tdeforest~give three cheers for php
16:19.32infobotACTION gives cheers for php to three
16:19.39TimRikerneed to get coda1.1 branch auto-deployed as a first step I think.
16:19.42tccastaldoHaha!
16:20.01TimRiker~give php three cheers
16:20.01infobotACTION gives three cheers to php
16:20.08TimRikerhehe
16:20.10tdeforest;)
16:20.20smootar:)
16:20.26TimRiker~give php three cheers for being simple and flexible
16:20.26infobotACTION gives three cheers for being simple and flexible to php
16:20.31scgallafentmulls whether it would be more efficient to rewrite coda in php
16:20.57smootarWould that be FORG?
16:21.01scgallafent:)
16:21.02TimRikerscgallafent, perhaps. offers welcome. need to get oracle client working with php though. and on sles that's a pain in the butt.
16:21.24TimRikerI could delay coda yet again and work on getting us onto redhat first.
16:21.25smootar:(
16:21.42tccastaldoHmm...
16:21.54smootarTimRiker, anything else?
16:22.07TimRikermeans more delays, but it's worth considering. the pen testing is working on finding remote vulnerabilities to our ancient unpatched sles installs. I'm sure they will find some.
16:22.23scgallafentMaybe that will get things moving on redhat.
16:22.24tdeforestTimRiker: the pen test team might have something to say about that...
16:22.46TimRikerplease don't post the channel name for the pen testing here. please do msg me if you want to get in.
16:23.08smootarDavid Ha. wants to meet at end of day today with Pen Test team.
16:23.36TimRikerdlhace fixed our production scheduler deploy, so we did an update on that. can't recall if it was yesterday or monday.
16:23.40smootarI've sent a meeting invite.
16:23.44TimRikerok.
16:23.49TimRikerthat's it for me.
16:24.09smootarThanks TimRiker
16:24.40smootarkeeps TimRiker and family in his thoughts and prayers
16:24.47tccastaldoMonday
16:25.02smootartomjohnson, anything?
16:25.13tomjohnsonnothing to report.
16:25.20tomjohnsonthe Newsletter beta should kick off tomorrow.
16:25.27tomjohnsoni've been focusing some effort on documentation for that.
16:25.35TimRikerthx smootar. we sure can use it. went to a couple's date nite session last night by myself. :(
16:25.45tomjohnsonbut this is the same local unit app beta testing project that had the issues jeff brown raised yesterday.
16:25.58tomjohnsonwith trivial communication, that is.
16:26.38smootarok
16:26.56smootarWe need some help documenting roles and how it affects all aspects of LDSTech.
16:27.09smootarie. Google Groups, Jira, SVN, etc.
16:27.35smootarI would like to provide docs on that in the wiki soon.
16:27.42*** join/#ldstech johnsonth (~JohnsonTH@proxy.lds.org)
16:28.03smootarEven just a simple table.  johnsonth tomjohnson
16:28.09smootartwo of them.
16:28.17smootarDouble the output :)
16:28.50smootarthehpguy, did you have anything?
16:28.58thehpguyNot for this group !
16:29.07smootarThanks all for joining.
16:29.11thehpguy:)
16:29.15smootar************************************************
16:29.16smootar***** End - LDSTech Meeting - 15 FEB 2012 ******
16:29.16smootar************************************************
16:29.31*** join/#ldstech BroSki (62c8d4d5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.200.212.213)
16:29.39smootarmoin BroSki
16:29.52BroSkimoin, just made it
16:30.03smootar:)
16:30.10BroSkiour UK CSM's did not get the letter
16:30.33BroSkiI am gently emailing CSM to see if it has been sent,
16:30.42smootarUsually the Stake Pres. gets those.  It sounds like they were told they would get one too.
16:30.51BroSkiI got one
16:31.02BroSkitwo weeks after S.P
16:31.17smootarGreat, I didn't know they did that.
16:31.32smootarIs it delayed intentionally?
16:31.43smootarI wonder if the Stake Pres. there will get one first.
16:31.47BroSkinot sure, two piles maybe, or because I inquired, not sure
16:32.13smootarMaybe their Stake Pres. will see it first.
16:32.36BroSkihope so, did you get D .K. CSM application
16:33.01*** part/#ldstech randysecrist1 (~Adium@c-71-199-44-57.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
16:33.29BroSkiI am targeting him as a PM replacement
16:34.15BroSkismootar: I also sent you a simple text based gift design
16:34.28smootarI see his application.
16:34.34BroSkisigned?
16:35.09smootarNo signatures.
16:35.25BroSkiK thought so...I asked him to have his SP email it
16:35.31smootarHe needs to meet with his leaders and get signatures.
16:35.39BroSkito csm-sxxxx@xxx.org
16:35.55smootarIt shows you got a copy as well.
16:36.25BroSkiLastly I do have access to orgs, no need for vpn so I wanted to talk with you on protocol
16:36.37smootarHe plans to stay in CA, is that right?
16:37.00BroSkiwill travel to riverton
16:37.08BroSkion occation/part time
16:37.17BroSkihe can stay a few days a month I think
16:38.05smootarGreat.
16:38.27smootarJust sending him a reply now.
16:39.32BroSkigreat...did you see the design?
16:43.18smootarYes.
16:43.36smootarDid you see the feedback?
16:45.38scgallafentsmootar, BroSki: Our CSM letters get generated by the CSM coordinator in our area. Do yours come some other way?
16:45.59johnsonthsmootar, the notifications about teams receiving an email every time someone joins or leaves the project is really a sore point for the project that has 500 members.
16:46.21johnsonthMindie just brought this up in scrum. Is there a way to turn that off? Are we planning to do anything to address it?
16:46.45smootarscgallafent, for an LDSTech Service Mission they come from the Service Mission office in SLC.
16:47.06johnsonthBTW, I haven't heard from Victor since that day he did the tour.
16:47.08smootarscgallafent, that is becuase they are serving for a SLC mission and not a local service mission.
16:47.09tdeforestjohnsonth: scgallafent is working on a solution. part of a new 2.6.1 release
16:47.44scgallafentjohnsonth: Tell Mindie that we'll probably have the update in today.
16:47.59smootarjohnsonth, I'll send you a novel on the topic from our meeting.
16:49.12smootarjohnsonth, just sent you the novel using PM
16:50.21BroSkiJust did and replied with modification
16:51.08BroSkiscgallafent: the letters come directly from CSM to Stake Pres, bipassing Regional mission Coordinators
16:51.24johnsonthsmootar, oh, I see the thread I missed.
16:51.27johnsonthLet me look closely at that.
16:52.35BroSkismootar: I sent you and TD a design update
16:52.47smootarI see it.
16:53.19smootarI like it and am responding with a couple of thoughts.
16:53.40tdeforestBroSki: thanks. i think that is better.
16:55.35johnsonththe feedback I received from Mindie was that she didn't want to receive an email every time someone joined or left the project. It's quite a bit of email that comes in when you have 500 volunteers. But if she turns off team email, she's afraid she'll miss important info.
16:57.23johnsonthAs I understand it, the change for the 2.6.1 release will make it so that observers don't receive join/left messages, right?
16:57.28BroSkitdeforest: thanks, now the design is in good company :)
17:00.00thehpguyBroSki , did you ever get the org charts ?
17:00.37tdeforestBroSki: ;)
17:01.42scgallafentjohnsonth: Yes.
17:01.42BroSkithehpguy: you can as well I sent you an email
17:02.12scgallafentPart of the problem is that the meaning of turning off "team email" is ambiguous.
17:02.48johnsonththehpguy, did you send it to johnsonth? because I didn't see it.
17:04.55thehpguyI meant, do BroSki ever get the Org charts we were going to look at
17:06.06thehpguyI am logging in now
17:10.26*** join/#ldstech johnson_tom (~JohnsonTH@proxy.lds.org)
17:11.58thehpguyI get to main Home page, as I start digging in .... Error: Access Denied
17:14.53thehpguyLooks liek I can't install the VPN on non church owned assets ...
17:16.51thehpguy.. need vpn access to go to LDS teams ...
17:22.54thehpguywell .. if anyone has any answers ... Email me ... I need to log off ... have a good day !
17:30.26tdeforestscgallafent: i'm thinking of adding update43-chapter-link.sql instead of just update43.sql. any reason i shouldn't do that?
17:31.08scgallafentWouldn't hurt, but it creates a little clutter in the file listing. I think I'd be OK either way.
17:31.22scgallafentI normally just document in comments at the beginning of the SQL file.
17:31.26scgallafentTimRiker may have an opinion.
17:31.59scgallafentWe do need a better way to handle content updates.
17:32.04tdeforesti also do that but then i have to open each file to know it's contents
17:32.29tdeforestagreed. but i don't know a way to do it.
17:33.09scgallafentUnless TimRiker strongly opposes it, I say go ahead.
17:33.36tdeforesti suppose it's an easy fix if there's a reason it shouldn't be done
17:35.19*** join/#ldstech TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker)
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17:35.57*** join/#ldstech JoshBang (~JoshBang@proxy.lds.org)
17:53.32JoshBangDoes anyone need me to do anything today?
17:59.13JoshBangAnd the countdown on tech.lds.org doesnt show up on firefox when I sign into it. It works on chrome though
17:59.24JoshBangWhen I sign into my account
18:00.03tccastaldoJoshBang, I think scgallafent would like to know that.
18:00.27tccastaldoDoes it come back when you press shift+F5?
18:00.35scgallafentJoshBang, can you flush your cache and see if it fixes it?
18:00.51JoshBangtccastaldo, no. scgallafent I will try
18:02.29JoshBangscgallafent, is flushing my cache clearing my cache? Im guessing yes, but just making sure
18:02.40scgallafentYes.
18:02.54JoshBangThat worked
18:03.16JoshBangperfect thanks
18:03.40JoshBangWhy did that work? what does the countdown have to do with the cache?
18:05.09scgallafentThere is some formatting in the CSS file that is required to get it into the correct spot on the page.
18:05.24scgallafentEmptying the cache forced your browser to retrieve a new copy of the CSS file.
18:05.30*** join/#ldstech tomjohnson (~JohnsonTH@proxy.lds.org)
18:05.43tccastaldoYour web browser cheats by storing or "caching" the styles (CSS) on your computer instead of loading a new copy every time.
18:05.47JoshBangoh, cool. One day I will know what the answer to my question means too hahaha
18:06.33tccastaldoThis makes the page load faster, but you don't necessarily get the most up-to-date copy of the styles.
18:07.17JoshBangCool.  You guys are too smart for me hahaha
18:07.48tccastaldoThe styles, generally stored in Cascading Style Sheets (CSS), determine how web pages are displayed by your browser.
18:09.10JoshBangoh, alright. I think I understand it.
18:09.17tccastaldo:)
18:09.23JoshBangthanks hahaha
18:10.10tccastaldonp
18:44.55scgallafenttdeforest: Do you have a minute to do some quick styling?
19:03.35scgallafentsmootar: At your desk?
19:04.12JoshBangNo he isnt
19:04.33JoshBangscgallafent, I can hear him talking somewhere though.
19:04.47scgallafentWhen he wanders back in, have him call me.
19:04.54JoshBangWill do
19:06.10scgallafentThank you
19:06.58*** join/#ldstech johnsonth (~JohnsonTH@proxy.lds.org)
19:08.03tccastaldoI told him.
19:08.21scgallafentThanks, tccastaldo.
19:08.25JoshBangThis FamilySearch Indexing app is awesome.
19:08.28tccastaldoscgallafent, smootar wants to know if it's an emergency or if he can go running.
19:08.46tccastaldoJoshBang, it really is!
19:09.11scgallafentNot an emergency, but I want to talk about updating LDSTech.
19:09.19scgallafentIf he wants to run first, I'll keep testing.
19:10.16JoshBangtccastaldo, I have done like 150 names... and skipped about 250 hahaha some of them are impossible to read, even on easy. I found out that moderate is easier to read then easy... weird
19:10.30tccastaldoStrange.
19:10.59tccastaldoBut you're getting a lot of names done.  That's awesome!
19:13.28TimRikerscgallafent, what update are you pushing? note: I had to rewind the forum wam updates again. things are still broken there in some way I don't understand.
19:14.03scgallafentChanges for the join/part emails and add announcement groups. We can identify specific files to update.
19:14.33smootarscgallafent, called your mobile with no answer.  Should I try again?
19:14.46scgallafentTry the desk. Mobile is upstairs.
19:15.01smootark
19:16.13*** join/#ldstech johnson_tom (~JohnsonTH@proxy.lds.org)
19:17.17scgallafenttdeforest: Find me when you get back.
19:24.20TimRikerJoshBang, get xampp here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/xampp/ Then try the tutorial here: http://php.net/manual/en/tutorial.php and move on to more stuff here: http://www.w3schools.com/php/
19:24.46JoshBang<PROTECTED>
19:25.03scgallafentAnother place to start: http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/php/learn-php-from-scratch-a-training-regimen/
19:25.40JoshBangscgallafent, thanks!
19:27.16JoshBangTimRiker, for the xampp start up thing, should I install apache, mysql and filezilla as service?
19:28.02TimRikerapache, mysql, phpmyadmin, yes. dunno what filezilla gets you that you don't already have with windows explorer etc.
19:28.22JoshBangthanks
19:28.28TimRikerwe use svn to check in/out, and not something like filezilla to just copy files remotely.
19:29.16TimRikertccastaldo, which svn client do you use? I'm a command line guy, so I'd tend to use cygwin with svn installed. but tortisesvn or similar might be easier to get started with.
19:29.31tccastaldoTortiseSVN is what I use.
19:30.08tccastaldoIt includes both a command line and graphical interface. :)
19:30.50scgallafentThe newest version of TortoiseSVN uses the SVN 1.7 format for the local copy. If you're using TortoiseSVN alongside something else, make sure that won't break Something Else.
19:31.14tccastaldo...like Eclipse. >:P
19:31.15TimRikerah. true. might be worth starting with the older tortise
19:32.28tccastaldohttp://sourceforge.net/projects/tortoisesvn/files/1.6.16/Application/
19:33.04tccastaldoJoshBang, do you know if you're running a 32- or 64-bit version of Windows?
19:33.22JoshBangI have no idea... how do I check?
19:33.33tccastaldoI'll be right there.
19:33.34JoshBangjust in mycomputer?
19:33.37JoshBangk
19:33.43scgallafentWindowKey-Break
19:35.52tccastaldoI feel like I should've known that. Thanks, scgallafent.
19:36.08scgallafentNo problem
19:36.43JoshBangtccastaldo, its done installing. Shoudl I download totoiseSVN?
19:36.59JoshBangthe one that ends in .msi or pdb.7z?
19:37.05tccastaldoThe .msi
19:37.09JoshBangk
19:37.12tccastaldoGo ahead.
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19:46.33JoshBangsorry, it made me restart my computer
19:46.52tccastaldoThat's fine.  I figured that's where you had gone.
19:47.21JoshBangK so the tortoiseSVN is installed and so is xampp. Whats next?
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19:50.39scgallafentYou need an editor.
19:51.12JoshBangscgallafent, me?
19:51.17scgallafentYes.
19:51.27JoshBangWhere do I get an editor?
19:51.56scgallafentJust trying to think of what will give you the least grief. I really like mine, but it's commercial. (There is a 30-day trial.)
19:52.52JoshBanghow much is it after the trial?
19:52.59tccastaldoscgallafent, are you looking for a PHP editor (one that will help with syntax, etc.)?
19:53.08scgallafentYes.
19:53.15tccastaldoK.
19:53.28tccastaldow3schools may have some suggestions...
19:53.30scgallafentMine is $99 after the trial.
19:53.41tccastaldoYuck!
19:53.45scgallafenttccastaldo, are you using something eclipse-based.
19:53.51JoshBangwow haha
19:53.55scgallafentIt's actually worth the $99.
19:54.01tccastaldoIf you say so.
19:54.16tccastaldoNo, I just use a basic text editor.
19:54.39tccastaldoAnd then let the compiler/interpreter yell at me when it hits an error.
19:54.42JoshBangWhat makes it worth the $99? Would it be worth it for me to get it as a beginner?
19:55.00scgallafentI'm not sure it would be worth it until you're at a higher level.
19:55.07tdeforestscgallafent: i'm about 50% here. i think i've got a migraine or something coming on. i can't quite see straight, having difficulty focusing my eyes
19:55.15scgallafentSyntax highlighting would be helpful, but there are other IDEs that will do that.
19:55.27scgallafentIt also integrates subversion, JIRA.
19:55.31JoshBangtdeforest, Those are no fun. Thats why I had to come home from my mission
19:55.36JoshBangtoo many migraines
19:55.57scgallafenttdeforest: Bummer. Do you think you can do a quick run-through on GGroups changes just to put a second set of eyes on it for a few minutes?
19:56.08tdeforestJoshBang: yikes. any migraine is too many :)
19:56.18tccastaldoThe Subversion/JIRA integration is nice.
19:56.29JoshBangseriously hahaha I had 5 in seven days :(
19:56.32tdeforestscgallafent: sure
19:56.40tccastaldoNotepad++ does syntax highlighting.
19:56.43tdeforest:( owie
19:56.48scgallafentI'll put together some notes on what to look for and send them in a bit.
19:56.55tdeforestk
19:57.16scgallafentPSPad is decent. http://www.pspad.com/
19:57.23JoshBangk
19:57.41scgallafentStart there and I'll get you hooked on the good stuff later. :)
19:57.50JoshBanghehe sounds good
19:58.26scgallafenttccastaldo: The integration is nice. I haven't installed TortoiseSVN since I rebuilt my machine.
20:01.05JoshBangscgallafent, Do I download everything under PSPad? The Installer, HTTP mirro, FTP mirror, etc?
20:01.15scgallafentJust the installer. Looking ...
20:01.46scgallafentYep. Just download the installer (first item).
20:01.54JoshBangperfect thanks
20:02.00JoshBangIts isntalled
20:02.05JoshBanginstalled*
20:02.29JoshBangI meant downloaded one sec
20:04.15*** join/#ldstech tomjohnson (~JohnsonTH@proxy.lds.org)
20:04.37JoshBangK, its running
20:04.42JoshBangwhats next?
20:05.59scgallafentTry pointing a browser to http://127.0.0.1/
20:06.20tccastaldoI tried that and XAMPP is running great.
20:06.34scgallafentTime to create a PHPInfo file and see if that works.
20:06.39tccastaldoJoshBang, localhost = 127.0.0.1
20:07.00scgallafenttccastaldo, do you know where his apache docs dir is located?
20:07.51tccastaldoNo...
20:07.56JoshBangIt says that firefox cant confirm that your connection is secure
20:08.14scgallafentThat's OK.
20:08.19JoshBangk
20:08.41JoshBangnow to phpinfo?
20:08.55scgallafentLook at the XAMPP control utility and see if you can figure out where your web files are served from.
20:09.04JoshBangk
20:14.05JoshBangI cant find it.
20:14.21scgallafentIs there something that shows settings for Apache?
20:15.01JoshBangI dont think so
20:15.18JoshBangI went to the service tab and there is a box to check apache
20:15.31JoshBangand then it comes up with c:\xampp\service.exe httpd  does that sound right?
20:15.54tccastaldoscgallafent, by "served from" do you mean the directory he needs to put files into to have them run on localhost/?
20:15.56scgallafentYes. You need to find the Apache settings file (httpd.conf).
20:16.01scgallafenttccastaldo, yes.
20:16.16tccastaldoIt's probably C:\xampp\htdocs.
20:16.33scgallafentJoshBang, open your editor and see what is in that directory.
20:17.01JoshBangI dont see directory
20:17.35tccastaldo...unless he installed xampp somewhere else.
20:18.22JoshBangoh sorry, I was still in the xampp control panel
20:22.48JoshBangActually I still dont see directory.
20:23.08tccastaldoC:\xampp\htdocs
20:23.11tccastaldo?
20:23.37JoshBangIs that at me?
20:24.15scgallafenttccastaldo, you may need to go look.
20:24.22tccastaldoWill do.
20:25.03scgallafenttdeforest: You've got mail.
20:25.22JoshBangK
20:25.39JoshBangso I went to C:\xampp\htdocs
20:25.44scgallafentWhat's in there?
20:26.02JoshBangthere is
20:26.25JoshBangwait
20:26.32JoshBangdo you want to know whats in the xampp folder?
20:26.36scgallafentYes.
20:27.13JoshBangumm... there are a lot of thigns in it. is there anything specific?
20:27.36scgallafentWhat directories are there? Is there one called apache or one called htdocs?
20:28.39JoshBangboth
20:28.54scgallafentLook in htdocs. What is there?
20:29.35JoshBangThere are some apache files and an xamppfolder
20:29.43JoshBangappache images
20:29.55scgallafentIs there a file called index.php?
20:29.59JoshBangyes
20:30.00scgallafentSorry index.html?
20:30.07scgallafentOpen that with PSPad.
20:30.23JoshBangk
20:30.41scgallafentIt should look like this:
20:30.49JoshBangIt says something is wrong with the xampp installatin :-(
20:30.58JoshBangthe frowny face was included
20:30.58scgallafent<html><body><h1>It works!</h1></body></html>
20:31.18JoshBang<?php
20:31.18JoshBangif (!empty($_SERVER['HTTPS']) && ('on' == $_SERVER['HTTPS'])) {
20:31.18JoshBang$uri = 'https://';
20:31.18JoshBang} else {
20:31.18JoshBang$uri = 'http://';
20:31.19JoshBang}
20:31.21JoshBang$uri .= $_SERVER['HTTP_HOST'];
20:31.23JoshBangheader('Location: '.$uri.'/xampp/');
20:31.25JoshBangexit;
20:31.27JoshBang?>
20:31.29JoshBangSomething is wrong with the XAMPP installation :-(
20:31.57scgallafentLook inside the xampp folder.
20:32.20JoshBangnever mind I clicked on the wrong one
20:34.05JoshBang<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
20:34.05JoshBang"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
20:34.05JoshBang<html>
20:34.05JoshBang<head>
20:34.05JoshBang<title></title>
20:34.06JoshBang</head>
20:34.08JoshBang<body>
20:34.12JoshBang<h1>It works!</h1>
20:34.14JoshBang</body>
20:34.16JoshBang</html>
20:34.18scgallafentThat's the place.
20:34.24JoshBangperfect, thanks tccastaldo
20:34.29tccastaldonp
20:34.31tccastaldo:)
20:34.46scgallafentRename that to index.php and go to http://localhost/
20:35.36JoshBangK, probably a stupid question, but how do I rename it? can I do it from where I clicked into it, or should I save it in the editor?
20:36.00scgallafentYou should be able to highlight the file (click once) and then press F2 to rename.
20:37.48JoshBangK, im at localhost
20:37.57scgallafentFile renamed and it's still working?
20:38.17JoshBangyup
20:38.34scgallafentOpen the file in PSPad and change "It works" to "It still works" and then reload the page.
20:39.55JoshBangDo I need to save it in PSPad?
20:40.03scgallafentYes.
20:40.08JoshBangcool
20:40.09JoshBangit works
20:40.13JoshBangwell... its still works
20:40.17scgallafent:)
20:40.25scgallafentAdd the following two lines to the end of the file, save, and reload:
20:40.27scgallafent<?php
20:40.30scgallafentPHPInfo();
20:41.30JoshBangcool, it shows the tables
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20:41.51scgallafentOK. You've now got a functioning WAMP server, an editor, and you can edit files.
20:41.59JoshBangwoohoo!
20:42.02scgallafentYou're ready to start the tutorials.
20:42.05tccastaldo:)
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20:42.13JoshBangThanks scgallafent and tccastaldo !
20:42.20scgallafentYou're welcome.
20:42.20tccastaldoMy pleasure.
20:42.42scgallafentI would go to the nettuts+ tutorial and start with "The Basics."
20:42.43scgallafenthttp://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/php/learn-php-from-scratch-a-training-regimen/
20:42.51tdeforest_mobilenot feeling good. laying down. scgallafent, i will look at those later
20:42.54JoshBangthanks
20:43.07scgallafenttdeforest: OK. Go shake the migraine!
20:43.21scgallafentWell, not literally.
20:43.28scgallafentShould have said tdeforest_mobile.
20:44.07*** part/#ldstech troy (438b4b82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.139.75.130)
20:44.34scgallafentgoes upstairs for lunch
20:44.38JoshBangwhat does PHP stand for?
20:45.17JoshBangnever mind hahaaha that was in the next paragraph of the article
20:45.21tccastaldoPHP Hypertext Processor
20:45.24tccastaldo;)
20:46.28tccastaldoA recursive initialism, like GNU = GNU's Not Unix
21:06.10TimRikeroriginally "personal home page" used to be php/pi I think but I don't recall what the pi was. you could ask rasmus I suppose. :)
21:06.50TimRikeroh, php/fi
21:07.05TimRikerhttp://us.php.net/manual/en/history.php.php
21:07.11*** join/#ldstech chrxn (~chrxn@nat-216-228-240-6.byuh.edu)
21:07.55TimRikerknows rasmus and his wife too.
21:11.31tccastaldo:)
21:15.11*** join/#ldstech TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker)
21:15.11*** mode/#ldstech [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ
21:18.20TimRikerscgallafent, so, is there a way to get manager access to the bsir mailing list? or are we limited in manager spots under the current gg contract?
21:23.33scgallafentI don't create managers for the discussion groups.
21:23.52scgallafentI could. I just wanted to minimize the potential for people to fiddle with things.
21:24.00scgallafentlooking at TimRiker and grins :)
21:25.57scgallafentI have to give manager access on the other lists so that I can make a distinction between users who are allowed to post and those who aren't,
21:26.09scgallafentso the barn door is open. What you are thinking you would use manager access for
21:26.11scgallafent?
21:28.45JoshBangThis stuff is way cool. A little confusing but I like it. thanks again guys. Im out of here cya
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22:29.40TimRikerscgallafent, can we push a change to stop sending join/part/change messages to observers?
22:29.58scgallafentDoing some final testing to make sure everything is working correctly and then it's ready to push.
22:30.33TimRikerscgallafent, imho project managers should be list managers. mostly just to debug that things are setup correctly.
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22:31.01TimRikerbonus points if joomla admins are admins over all lists, but that's probably an account limit, right?
22:31.04scgallafentMy worry isn't so much debugging as them managing the list directly in GGroups and bypassing joomla.
22:31.18scgallafentNo, but they would have to be members of all lists.
22:31.34scgallafentstill needs to see if I can set delivery options directly....
22:31.39TimRikerwe already grant that in jira and svn. I'd continue with the "give them enough rope to hang themselves" approach.
22:33.06scgallafentI'm good with that. Let me finish testing these changes and I'll poke at that.
22:33.13scgallafentI _really_ want to get this change out today.
22:33.33TimRikeragreed.
22:34.02TimRikerwonders why he puts a period on the end of everything even if it's not a sentence.
22:34.34scgallafentthinks TimRiker is remembering his old telegram days
22:34.43TimRikerperhaps.
22:35.37tccastaldoBecause. Puctuation. Is. Fun.
22:36.00tccastaldoNo, see, in the telegram days it would be
22:36.15tccastaldoBECAUSE STOP PUNCTUATION STOP IS STOP FUN STOP
22:37.16scgallafenthttp://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2e/index.htm
22:43.09tccastaldo:)
22:55.15scgallafentsmootar: Need to see if you got an email....
23:02.00TimRikerscgallafent, hoping not to mess you up... just committed the itemid patches.
23:02.31scgallafentShouldn't. I'll update and see whether it causes me trouble.
23:02.43TimRikerk
23:03.13scgallafentAw. TimRiker stole r1600. I was hoping for the prize.
23:03.22TimRikerhehe
23:28.54macnewboldnah, you really want r2000
23:29.05macnewboldor better yet, r2048
23:32.40scgallafentsmootar, TimRiker: Do you have a couple of minutes to watch for emails coming from updated code?
23:33.18smootarI don't right now.  TimRiker can you?

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