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| 04:42.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | josch: maybe most of those have gone thru the tedious task to read the first posts in the thread, where the basic questions got asked and answered |
| 04:47.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | charging: like in GTA04 (though we actually might improve that). suspend-to-ram: like GTA04 though obsolete and actually not a concept used in N900. audio routing: we try to replicate the N900 audio hardware to a degree that routing works with the original fremantle bits. And last not least: we do no software |
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| 05:20.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang, I wish Dos1 wouldn't log out during the night |
| 05:22.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/news-0005-phase-i-results-ohsw-showcase has TWO links to "« Neo900 Progress Update" respective "Neo900 Progress Update »" :-S |
| 05:23.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW we shouldn't use identical headlines for newsletters. Add date in headline |
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| 08:15.34 | josch | DocScrutinizer05: as a matter of fact I read the whole forum thread |
| 08:15.48 | josch | this is also something i said in the beginning of my message |
| 08:16.38 | josch | i should probably not have given these examples because they seem to have implied that my point was that I doubt that these specific examples will fail or be hard to implement in the neo900 |
| 08:17.06 | josch | my point of giving these examples on the other hand was to demonstrate how hard sometimes seemingly easy tasks are |
| 08:17.16 | josch | by pointing out how long it took for the gta04 to solve them |
| 08:18.14 | josch | and while the neo900 builds on top of the gta04 and therefore does not have to reinvent the wheel with respect to the examples I mentioned, it is adding other things which seem simple at first glance but might turn up unexpected problems later |
| 08:18.52 | josch | and i also do know that you do no software - but with out software the phone does not work as one but is a brick |
| 08:19.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's what hw-engineering is all about ;-) |
| 08:19.08 | josch | you seem to have understood my comment as an offense against you |
| 08:19.13 | josch | which it was not meant as |
| 08:19.32 | josch | and it's also fine that you do no software |
| 08:19.37 | josch | because it's a hard and big task |
| 08:20.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | no offense taken, just it sounded like questioning the elementary things that got discussed early in the public debate |
| 08:20.20 | josch | i see |
| 08:20.27 | josch | then i'm sorry for phrasing myself badly |
| 08:20.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | no problem |
| 08:20.35 | josch | no, i'm happy neo900 might happen |
| 08:20.45 | josch | what made me make this comment was |
| 08:20.54 | josch | that i recently (last week) got a n900 again |
| 08:21.02 | josch | and i looked into its current status |
| 08:21.30 | josch | and saw that after four years of its existance, patches have not gone mainline yet |
| 08:21.37 | josch | this will surely be better for the gta04 |
| 08:21.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, mainline is one thing |
| 08:21.49 | josch | but again it's just one example showing how long just the most simple things take |
| 08:22.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | a highly optimized tailored-to-fit kernel and API (and userland) is a different one |
| 08:22.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | the problem with mainline is: it wants to suit everything |
| 08:22.48 | josch | true |
| 08:23.03 | josch | so right now i'm stuff with the stock 2.6 nokia kernel for my n900 |
| 08:23.10 | josch | which means i can not install current debian |
| 08:23.15 | josch | because its udev is too new |
| 08:23.37 | josch | just an example |
| 08:23.49 | josch | nothing that i say that neo900 fail at :) |
| 08:23.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and to quote a simple example: the lis302 mainline driver (accelerometer) is fubar, but it's not possible to upstream a better driver, no matter if from GTA02/Openmoko or from maemo5 |
| 08:23.53 | josch | and i know it will have this much easier |
| 08:24.15 | josch | because lots of gta04 changes already are or are waiting for mainline inclusion |
| 08:24.27 | josch | thanks to neil brown and others |
| 08:24.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | and freemangordon made maemo5 boot with kernel3.12 recently |
| 08:24.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | on N900 |
| 08:24.46 | josch | i made debian boot with 3.12 recently |
| 08:24.52 | josch | but some features are missing :) |
| 08:25.04 | josch | i have to find out if the kernel is at fault or debian |
| 08:25.09 | josch | but n900 is another story |
| 08:25.19 | josch | because it also requires all these proprietary blobs to play along nicely |
| 08:25.33 | josch | which is something that you do not have to worry about |
| 08:25.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | which ones? |
| 08:26.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | we will need exactly the same "proprietary blobs" for fremantle-Neo900 |
| 08:26.18 | josch | i didnt look into it yet but i suspect things like the proprietary pulse plugin or bme |
| 08:26.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and FPTF/CSSU has revere-engineered quite a few of them already, and this work is in progress |
| 08:27.08 | josch | i had cssu testing running and 300 packages were still marked as non-free, sadly |
| 08:27.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | bme is not needed and there's also a FOSS replacement based on my investigations and R&D a two years ago |
| 08:27.46 | josch | cool |
| 08:27.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | proprietary pulse plugin is actually a problem for one particular item: modem-audio |
| 08:28.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | all other audio stuff is supposed to work OOTB on Neo900 since HW will get built in a way so it is indistinguishable from N900 |
| 08:29.00 | josch | here is the prop. package list: http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages |
| 08:29.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know |
| 08:29.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~closed |
| 08:29.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | err |
| 08:29.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~#maemo closed |
| 08:29.36 | infobot | rumour has it, #maemo closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages |
| 08:29.52 | josch | sure, things like keyboard, cam, display, touchscreen etc worked surprisingly well already |
| 08:30.14 | josch | even wireless worked |
| 08:30.18 | josch | so a tablet it already is :) |
| 08:30.43 | josch | but then again - that's only for the old n900 hardware with debian wheezy |
| 08:31.10 | josch | i have no doubt that the neo900 will also make a fine tablet |
| 08:32.12 | josch | wrt. closed packages there was also this forum thread which listed them - but i guess that info was then moved to the respective wiki pages you quoted |
| 08:32.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically the Neo900 is supposed to be binary-compatible to N900 |
| 08:33.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | one exception to this rule quite obviously is the modem |
| 08:33.41 | josch | sure, but you can't do better there |
| 08:33.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | please see our mantra in post#2 of FPTF thread |
| 08:33.46 | josch | and also would not want to :) |
| 08:34.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 |
| 08:34.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | first we try to fix the fremantle core system foss bits to match the new hw platform. |
| 08:34.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that can't be done we try to patch the kernel device drivers so the new device looks like the the N900 one to userland |
| 08:34.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that can't be done we try to RE userland blobs or binary-patch them or write bridging-adapters from one ABI to the other |
| 08:34.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that can't be done we need to adapt the hw platform to more closely resemble the N900. |
| 08:34.59 | josch | yes, i have this open |
| 08:36.01 | josch | but can you point me to the place where freemangordon announced maemo5 running on linux 3.12? was it irc or forum? |
| 08:36.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | IRC |
| 08:36.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
| 08:36.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe also later on in FPTF thread |
| 08:37.11 | josch | okay, thanks |
| 08:37.25 | josch | i didnt do any n900 stuff during the past year |
| 08:37.34 | josch | so i currently have to catch up |
| 08:37.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1379819&postcount=72 |
| 08:37.44 | josch | DocScrutinizer05: thanks! |
| 08:37.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | So far we have fremantle booting on top of 3.12rc1 with the following HW working - DSP, DSS2(though there are some problems with the framebuffer), SSI(modem+GPS), SGX (with stock n900 drivers and HW acceleration), touchscreen(disabling doesn't work), bluetooth, wifi, keyboard, most of the sensors and LEDs, charging, HSMMC, etc. |
| 08:37.55 | josch | i was very surprised by all this still being that alive |
| 08:41.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, to revert back to start of our discussion: I frowned at "suspend-to-RAM" since I think this is exactly the completely wrong thing to do and doesn't earn us anything |
| 08:42.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | evil vintage heriatge from GTA02 times and flawed SoC and system design |
| 08:42.28 | josch | right |
| 08:42.30 | josch | bad examle |
| 08:42.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | we by all means need to stear clear of that idea |
| 08:42.38 | josch | you explained your point in the thread i think |
| 08:43.01 | josch | might also have been here |
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| 08:44.05 | josch | DocScrutinizer05: thanks for your time - i hope you find a solution for the display connector |
| 08:44.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 as well as beagleboard and all derived designs (N900, GTA04, Neo900) shall act better in zero clock than in suspend-to-ram |
| 08:45.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | josch: thanks, and yes the display connector is a PITA and there's already no hope left except getting them custom built by a german company that is specialized in such tasks |
| 08:45.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | will cost 10..50EUR per device |
| 08:45.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-o |
| 08:45.24 | josch | fuuu... |
| 08:45.41 | josch | wow what a major pita |
| 08:46.00 | josch | unbelievable |
| 08:46.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, the situation is depsarate but not hopeless |
| 08:46.08 | josch | phew |
| 08:46.20 | josch | well it's good to know that you have a fallback |
| 08:46.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | just friggin expensive but definitely feasible |
| 08:46.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 08:46.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 08:46.41 | josch | as i pointed out in the thread i was seriously worried about that breaking your neck |
| 08:46.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | now we can try to find a cheaper solution |
| 08:46.50 | josch | good to know that it's "only" a monetary problem now |
| 08:54.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | our todo list now is: find and evaluate *ALL* possible options we might imagine, to source this connector. Starting with asking Molex for a quote to build that connector for us and accepting any answer from "We definitely won't do this, no matter what" to "$200k for setup plus 1ct per unit" to "wait 6 months for a warranty batch returning to us, when you're interested in connectors that are 0.05mm too high from spec" |
| 08:55.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | continuing with contacting *ALL* vendors on alibaba that claim to offer the connector, and ask them what's their actual conditions to find and deliver them to us |
| 08:56.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | to "find companies that custom build them to order" to "find junkjard devices that have this connector to recycle it" |
| 08:57.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | with all this we appreciate help from community |
| 08:58.06 | josch | it's a tough job you guys set yourself out to do - I do not envy you |
| 08:58.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | just please assume we already did one or two days googling, so the most obvious "solutions" probably are already known to us |
| 08:59.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, we know all three alibaba asian sellers that claim they have that connector, we contacted one and got answer "this item is obsolete and not on stock. Very hard to source. Before we try to find it for you, we want to give you an idea about cost" |
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| 08:59.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's all they gave us for an idea about cost |
| 08:59.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 09:00.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're waiting for an answer to our request for giving more precise idea, including some real numbers |
| 09:01.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | but honestly it seems those alibaba offers are all scam |
| 09:02.22 | josch | i heard of those :) |
| 09:02.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | they tell you "delverable qty: up to 5mio/week. price: 0.05..10$" and when you ask/order, they tell you "sorry, fool. don't you know this item is obsolete?" |
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| 09:05.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi tmarble |
| 09:05.43 | tmarble | hi DocScrutinizer05 |
| 09:06.16 | tmarble | how are things going with the neo900? (Just heard about it today) |
| 09:06.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope our approach to freedom is appealing to you |
| 09:06.50 | tmarble | DocScrutinizer05: have you published any artifacts (source code, hardware designs, other?) |
| 09:06.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | project progressing well, though a tad slowed down now between the years |
| 09:07.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | suuure |
| 09:07.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | we don't do SW |
| 09:07.31 | tmarble | oh, what do you use as a bootloader? |
| 09:07.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | but we have a first mech eval proto which we showcased on OSHW Dec-01 |
| 09:08.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, afaik we use the usual OMAP FOSS BL chain |
| 09:08.24 | tmarble | ok |
| 09:08.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | xloader, uBoot, kernel |
| 09:08.39 | tmarble | you mention various softwares people could install |
| 09:08.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can bet we won't use a HS bootloader chain |
| 09:08.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 09:09.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | no tivoization on any of my devices!! |
| 09:09.19 | tmarble | do you have any pointers to installing, for example, AOSP, Replicant, Debian or FirefoxOS |
| 09:09.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | installing on what? Neo900 isn't existing yet |
| 09:10.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think on gta04.org you find pointers to installing debian et al on our sister project |
| 09:11.05 | tmarble | ah, ok |
| 09:11.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc Golden Delicious aka Nikolaus even offers a debian image to install on GTA04 |
| 09:12.17 | tmarble | do you have an estimate of when the hardware we be available? |
| 09:12.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | please take your time to again read all the info on neo900.org, incl FAQ and news, and all the links embedded or hidden in hover text there |
| 09:13.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | we hope to ship in Q2/Q3 2014 |
| 09:13.22 | tmarble | will do, thx! |
| 09:13.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142 |
| 09:13.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | is pretty lengthy but has a wealth of additional info |
| 09:14.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's actually our central pint of communication for now, except IRC of course |
| 09:14.55 | tmarble | got it |
| 09:16.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | to already answer the questions you'll inevitably ask in 1h or 2h: we haven't decided yet on WLAN&BT module |
| 09:17.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | We're in contact to RMS and seems we cannot satisfay FSF requirements since there is no WWAN modem existing that would meet their rules |
| 09:19.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're not doing software development, we leave that to interested community borne interest groups. We might ship device with a debian-based BSP |
| 09:20.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | tmarble: also note out fine feasibility study |
| 09:20.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/out/our/ |
| 09:20.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-D |
| 09:21.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually this project is so free and open that it takes a day or two to get an overview from all the info we provide |
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| 09:23.55 | tmarble | having done some embedded dev I know that it's quite tricky to get a WLAN&BT module |
| 09:24.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | tmarble: a last remark: while we're still in "donation/funding phase" we actually usually attribute the 100+EUR donations as "preorders" since they are 100+% refundable on a device purchase. And we strive to get a 1000 of them, to allow us doing volume sourcing of components, since we build to order. There won't be a stack on shelf when production started, we build exactly the amount of devices preordered. we couldn't afford to do more |
| 09:24.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | than that |
| 09:24.14 | tmarble | both in general and specifically with source code (even proprietary) |
| 09:24.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 09:25.32 | tmarble | the asian ODM/OEM's really don't know about "free software" as their respect for copyright, generally, is limited |
| 09:25.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 09:26.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | they have some idea of (C) but they tend to dodge it |
| 09:26.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | and they have no idea at all about FOSS spirit and GPL |
| 09:27.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | generally, with some few outstanding exceptions |
| 09:28.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sorry, sysop alert on maemo.org |
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| 09:31.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | back |
| 09:32.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | fixed itself |
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| 13:42.33 | obesd | lol |
| 13:42.46 | obesd | their idea of free software; oh look its already free, all of it! |
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| 15:35.07 | FIQ | oh, you got a way to get the connectors? (expensively, but *a way*) cool that you got a fallback at least |
| 15:39.39 | FIQ | "we build exactly the amount of devices preordered. we couldn't afford to do more" didn't you intend to build around 110% of ordered, as fallback for bad devices? |
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| 15:59.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 16:00.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's not for sale though |
| 16:00.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need to keep them for warranty cases |
| 16:00.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | and we won't keep complete devices, just mobos |
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| 16:16.58 | FIQ | <DocScrutinizer05> that's not for sale though |
| 16:17.00 | FIQ | yeah I know that |
| 16:17.07 | FIQ | just wanted to make sure that there was warranty devices or not |
| 16:17.33 | FIQ | <DocScrutinizer05> and we won't keep complete devices, just mobos - ok |
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| 18:46.57 | KaIRC | DocScrutinizer05: you might be interested in this: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=701784 - I commented there about you guys having an interest in those, let's see what our people say to that |
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| 19:32.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | KaIRC: hey, thanks! :-) |
| 19:33.59 | KaIRC | DocScrutinizer05: don't thank me too soon, let's first see what comes out of this :) |
| 19:34.42 | KaIRC | DocScrutinizer05: also note that all of Mozilla is on holiday until Jan 2, so you probably won't hear anything about this before early January |
| 19:44.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | fine with me, and the thanks were for bothering at all about it, not for any possible result of the effort :-) |
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| 20:18.38 | fw190 | DocScrutinizer05: hello |
| 20:18.56 | fw190 | is the package at your place? |
| 20:19.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | fw190: yes, arrived an hour ago (from my neighbour aka my local personal post office) :-D Many thanks! |
| 20:20.13 | fw190 | nice |
| 20:20.21 | fw190 | I thought this will take much longer |
| 20:20.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | creative packaging ;-D |
| 20:20.45 | fw190 | well... |
| 20:20.59 | fw190 | 5mm mistake=creativity |
| 20:21.13 | fw190 | how do you rate her after 4 years |
| 20:21.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | it arrived in perfect condition, so packaging worked |
| 20:21.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | looks good |
| 20:22.12 | fw190 | splendid |
| 20:22.23 | fw190 | now I feel like a part of the tema |
| 20:22.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I had a cursory look only at it so far |
| 20:22.32 | fw190 | I did myself a nice present for Christamss :D |
| 20:22.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 20:22.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | many thanks again! |
| 20:22.51 | fw190 | no problem |
| 20:22.58 | fw190 | I have a devilish idea |
| 20:23.04 | fw190 | my friend has a N900 |
| 20:23.24 | fw190 | and he wants to buy something new (I convinced him in the first place for N900) |
| 20:23.36 | fw190 | so maybe I could convince him again to do something good :D |
| 20:29.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe, maybe he might be interested in a Neo900? |
| 20:32.52 | fw190 | probably not |
| 20:33.18 | fw190 | I have tried to baptise im and make from him a decent linux user but not |
| 20:33.38 | fw190 | although for 2 yesrs he is not an I phone user which is a success |
| 20:36.18 | boris_G | get him Hellaphone =P |
| 20:36.26 | boris_G | sorry, just had to |
| 20:36.31 | fw190 | what is that? |
| 20:36.48 | boris_G | https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-20/dc-20-presentations/Floren/DEFCON-20-Floren-Hellaphone.pdf |
| 20:39.01 | fw190 | reading |
| 20:39.46 | boris_G | short of it, its Inferno over the top of Android Linux kernel |
| 20:39.53 | boris_G | replacing the horrible Java crap |
| 20:40.41 | boris_G | i might knock up a version for Neo900 |
| 20:40.44 | boris_G | ^.~ |
| 20:42.29 | fw190 | not for my friend |
| 20:42.47 | fw190 | not for me too |
| 20:43.42 | boris_G | i was half joking |
| 20:43.55 | boris_G | "this is how the other half lives" |
| 20:46.27 | boris_G | i will say this - even a nokia 5110 is better than an iPhone |
| 20:47.01 | fw190 | I think that maybe some day we will have a Intel phon on top of which we could install a linux distro - this will be my next phone |
| 20:47.12 | fw190 | alternativly I manage to collect 700 euro |
| 20:47.17 | boris_G | aye |
| 20:47.30 | boris_G | seen Gizmo board? |
| 20:49.24 | fw190 | do not overestimate my skills - I can install linux on PC and follow some simple tutorials - that is it. My passion to FOSS ends on this - learned history instead of coding |
| 20:49.44 | boris_G | ahhhh |
| 20:50.20 | boris_G | i was just going to do a nice little comparision between low power Atoms (i presume would be in intel phones) and low power AMD chips |
| 20:50.24 | boris_G | but sure |
| 20:50.49 | fw190 | the thin is that I want what I have on my PC on my phone |
| 20:51.01 | boris_G | ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 20:51.03 | fw190 | N900 allowed for having debian in chroot |
| 20:51.04 | boris_G | yup |
| 20:51.07 | boris_G | yes |
| 20:51.09 | boris_G | true |
| 20:51.15 | fw190 | but had to low ram |
| 20:51.26 | boris_G | so u want a Neo900 |
| 20:51.26 | fw190 | and chrot is chrot |
| 20:51.30 | fw190 | not native |
| 20:51.33 | boris_G | yup |
| 20:51.40 | fw190 | oh yes I want it |
| 20:51.47 | fw190 | but first things first |
| 20:52.24 | fw190 | nappys are on top of my list right now |
| 20:52.52 | boris_G | yup |
| 20:52.59 | boris_G | priorities |
| 20:53.28 | boris_G | yeah, i have a voucher? god only knows when I'll use it |
| 20:53.39 | boris_G | probably long after it expires |
| 20:56.10 | fw190 | real life sucs |
| 20:56.14 | fw190 | but hey |
| 20:56.20 | fw190 | maybe I will win in lotto |
| 20:56.26 | boris_G | what the hey |
| 20:56.28 | boris_G | haha |
| 20:56.32 | boris_G | i dont play, as a rule |
| 20:56.38 | fw190 | yep |
| 20:56.41 | boris_G | im going into uni next year - im flat broke too |
| 20:56.43 | fw190 | as a rule me to |
| 20:56.53 | fw190 | I prefere to by myself something to eat for it |
| 20:56.58 | boris_G | bingo |
| 20:57.04 | boris_G | or support an education |
| 20:57.09 | boris_G | or ur family |
| 20:57.12 | fw190 | going to UNI |
| 20:57.15 | fw190 | ahhh |
| 20:57.18 | fw190 | when was that |
| 20:57.30 | fw190 | finishing my PhD next year |
| 20:57.40 | fw190 | and bak to real life |
| 21:01.13 | fw190 | boris_G: what UNI are you going to |
| 21:01.46 | boris_G | Uni of Western Sydney, Lithgow campus |
| 21:01.59 | boris_G | doing a diploma of engineering science |
| 21:02.11 | boris_G | going on to do electrical and electronics engineering |
| 21:02.38 | fw190 | now this is futre |
| 21:02.44 | fw190 | and sounds like fun to me too |
| 21:03.18 | fw190 | hmmm I wonder if we are not going too off topis in this channel |
| 21:03.24 | fw190 | topic |
| 21:03.25 | boris_G | sorry |
| 21:03.37 | boris_G | i suppose, E&EE is kind of on topic |
| 21:03.48 | fw190 | huh |
| 21:04.03 | fw190 | yes you can help to improve Neo900 ver. 2 :D |
| 21:06.36 | fw190 | have to go now - thanks for the conversation |
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