| 02:24.57 | *** join/#neo900 M13 (~MirandaLS@83.149.37.250) |
| 03:09.07 | *** join/#neo900 M13 (~MirandaLS@83.149.35.230) |
| 03:18.41 | *** join/#neo900 M13 (~MirandaLS@83.149.35.230) |
| 04:55.00 | *** join/#neo900 fling (~fling@fsf/member/fling) |
| 04:56.28 | *** join/#neo900 M13 (~MirandaLS@83.149.35.125) |
| 05:43.33 | *** join/#neo900 M13 (~MirandaLS@83.149.35.125) |
| 06:56.52 | *** join/#neo900 kolp (~quassel@55d45d05.access.ecotel.net) |
| 07:44.00 | *** join/#neo900 Mihanizat0r (~MirandaLS@83.149.35.125) |
| 07:48.59 | *** join/#neo900 e2718 (~hdesk@p4FD37AFE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:49.45 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@147.99.218.243) |
| 09:40.04 | *** join/#neo900 freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23) |
| 10:00.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<ndnihil> so, how soon until I can buy my very own neo900?)) at least til end of year |
| 10:31.09 | *** join/#neo900 vakkov (~vakko@vlan-174-game-235.comnet.bg) |
| 10:32.43 | ndnihil | hurry! |
| 10:32.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ndnihil: please keep in mind that we still don't know for sure how many excess Neo900 (beyond what been "pre-ordered" via donation) we will be able to build. For sure not an unlimited number |
| 10:32.52 | ndnihil | I'm bouncing off the walls over here |
| 10:33.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | believe me, I'm feeling all the same |
| 10:33.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 10:34.15 | ndnihil | I'm fed up with android |
| 10:34.21 | ndnihil | wont touch ios |
| 10:34.32 | ndnihil | wouldn't even consider touching winphone |
| 10:34.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | a common maemo saying :-) |
| 10:36.06 | ndnihil | even custom rom android is annoying |
| 10:36.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly the "<some negative attributes> android! Back to maemo fremantle now" |
| 10:36.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | hearing that at least once a month |
| 10:36.45 | ndnihil | it used to be decent if you rolled your own rom for it |
| 10:37.01 | ndnihil | but it's so convoluted and packed full of bullshit now it's not even funny |
| 10:37.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | sad |
| 10:37.25 | ndnihil | sad indeed |
| 10:37.44 | ndnihil | even more sad, is that nobody gives a shit about people with large hands |
| 10:37.56 | ndnihil | screen only phones are horrible for large handed folks |
| 10:38.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, the phablets kinda work fine for those, I heard |
| 10:38.19 | ndnihil | and if you want a high end or even a medium end phone now, that's all that's available |
| 10:38.27 | ndnihil | yeah, or carry a laptop in your pocket |
| 10:38.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 10:39.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | my GF is quite happy with her SG Note2 |
| 10:39.18 | ndnihil | I've got my droid 4 to a point of "barely tolerable" |
| 10:39.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | though she not even used the stylus yet, basically she's technophob |
| 10:39.36 | ndnihil | CM with a bunch of shit stripped out |
| 10:39.51 | ndnihil | only broken thing at the moment is mms |
| 10:40.04 | ndnihil | which is fine, chicks don't send me titty pics anymore |
| 10:40.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehehe |
| 10:40.32 | ndnihil | been with the same one for like 9 years now |
| 10:40.36 | ndnihil | she's tolerant |
| 10:42.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | the smart girls are |
| 10:42.57 | ndnihil | yeah, I have no major complaints |
| 10:43.16 | ndnihil | she's cute, 10 years younger than me, smart, and puts up with my shit |
| 10:43.31 | ndnihil | messy as hell, but what chick isn't |
| 10:45.23 | ndnihil | I was to the point a couple weeks ago I wanted to rip the usb/eth lump off the odroid u2 and hot glue an lte modem to it |
| 10:45.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not rules but tolerance and freedom that binds both customers and (girl)friends to you |
| 10:48.22 | ndnihil | you guys have an idea of cost on this unicorn of a phone yet? |
| 10:48.44 | ndnihil | last time went to donate there was some turmoil with goldelico or something |
| 10:51.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, that's completely sorted. We accept donations directly to Neo900 UG now, and the price target is still unchanged |
| 10:51.35 | ndnihil | oh, I didn't even know you had a target set |
| 10:51.49 | ndnihil | what was/is it? |
| 10:51.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | unrelated, but interesting for community participation/debate: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1436703&postcount=33 |
| 10:52.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | cost: http://neo900.org/faq#cost |
| 10:53.28 | ndnihil | ah right I did see that, around $1k to $1.2k USD |
| 10:53.43 | ndnihil | pricey for something I'm not even sure will work with my provider, but I'm game |
| 10:54.07 | ndnihil | data will work |
| 10:54.10 | ndnihil | unsure about voice |
| 10:54.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | voice will work too |
| 10:54.47 | ndnihil | on verizon in the US? |
| 10:55.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | when the modem can book in then voice should work, yes |
| 10:55.18 | ndnihil | claps |
| 10:55.25 | ndnihil | hell I might get two |
| 10:55.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc our modem even has cert from verizon |
| 10:56.07 | ndnihil | you changed modems? it has been a while since I last did the mandatory reading |
| 10:56.19 | ndnihil | that's brilliant news |
| 10:56.26 | ndnihil | I'm locked into verizon |
| 10:56.29 | ndnihil | work pays for it |
| 10:56.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/faq#networks |
| 10:57.14 | ndnihil | that's a pretty wide spread |
| 10:57.30 | ndnihil | das ubermodem |
| 10:57.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | note this are like 3 variants of modem you chose from |
| 10:58.00 | ndnihil | ah |
| 10:58.03 | ndnihil | not a single unit |
| 10:58.05 | ndnihil | gotcha |
| 10:58.08 | ndnihil | that makes more sense |
| 10:59.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | we gonna offer PLS8-US and -E, PHS8-k, and PXS8 |
| 10:59.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | so 4 variants |
| 10:59.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not toatally happy with the coverage they offer, but it's as good as it gets with recent global mess about bands used |
| 11:00.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly unfortunate are the missing roaming capabilities in the LTE PLS8-* |
| 11:01.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | PLS8-US at least can do voice in most parts of the world |
| 11:01.10 | ndnihil | hrm, yeah that could be an issue |
| 11:01.20 | ndnihil | make it a bit thicker, go dual modem :) |
| 11:01.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope Cinterion will improve their GSM to 4-band for the PLS8-E as well |
| 11:02.12 | ndnihil | there's a whole pile of dual modem phones on dx these days |
| 11:02.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 11:02.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | but we don't have enough space for that |
| 11:04.02 | ndnihil | are cad drawings of the case available? I might go ahead and start 3d printing some ruggedized accessories |
| 11:04.08 | ndnihil | and a desktop charger |
| 11:06.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | no cad drawings of the N900 case I'd know of, yet. We need somebody to 3D-print our spacerframes (or make them from moose antler ;-D ) |
| 11:06.38 | ndnihil | I'm not set up for production work, but I'm down to help out in proto |
| 11:06.50 | ndnihil | https://old.ndnihil.org/3dprinter/d4dock/ |
| 11:06.55 | ndnihil | click and drag to rotate |
| 11:07.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | Yes, desktop charger cradle is still very high on my list of product requirements that have impact on layout and circuit design |
| 11:07.17 | ndnihil | made that one for my droid 4 |
| 11:07.50 | ndnihil | holes in the bottom are for coins to tape in as weights |
| 11:08.01 | ndnihil | give it a nice substantial feel instead of it sliding all over the place |
| 11:08.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | (click and drag) doesn't work in konqueror ;) |
| 11:08.50 | ndnihil | ah, need html5 canvas |
| 11:11.31 | ndnihil | can't find a pic of the finished print on that one |
| 11:11.54 | ndnihil | suffice to say, it looks like a phone dock |
| 11:12.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, FF works |
| 11:13.14 | ndnihil | kinda tall, but I did it so any/most usb cables would press-fit without modification |
| 11:14.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, Neo900 in cradle shouldn't need USB plug to fit a micro jack |
| 11:14.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | should work with some pogo pins |
| 11:15.46 | ndnihil | hrm, is it separate port charge only or will it also charge via usb? |
| 11:16.17 | ndnihil | just thinking about compatibility with existing phone accessories |
| 11:16.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | it of course will also charge via USB as usual. That's a mandatory feature to stay compatible to N900 |
| 11:16.28 | ndnihil | right on |
| 11:16.45 | ndnihil | my xoom goes both ways like that |
| 11:16.49 | ndnihil | solid option |
| 11:17.07 | bencoh | (n900 or not, not being able to charge via usb would be a pity :) |
| 11:17.13 | bencoh | (and probably a pita too) |
| 11:17.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I think about two tiny holes or two gold plated contact pads at bottom (landscape orientation) small side of phone |
| 11:17.47 | ndnihil | http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/gadgets/Motorola/Xoom/_DSC9759.jpg |
| 11:18.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 11:18.06 | ndnihil | that's the bottom edge of a xoom, it'll charge USB, those two shiny pads, or the barrel jack |
| 11:18.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | we prolly won't be able to get the barrel jack |
| 11:18.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | mech issues, no space |
| 11:18.34 | ndnihil | no need |
| 11:18.39 | ndnihil | it's redundant |
| 11:19.32 | ndnihil | pads with a magnetic lock would be great |
| 11:19.49 | ndnihil | no worry about breaking things if you pick the phone up and accidentally yank the cord |
| 11:20.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and I want those gold pads, and I will try to make them safe to 40V and 16kV HBM ESD, and even operational to at least up to 12V of any flavor (AC/ DC, Whatever) |
| 11:21.11 | ndnihil | that would be sweet |
| 11:21.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | (magnets) that's exactly what I plan to do, when any possible |
| 11:21.34 | bencoh | "12V of any flavor (AC/ DC" wait, how ? |
| 11:21.41 | bencoh | (the AC/DC part) |
| 11:21.43 | ndnihil | a couple diodes |
| 11:21.47 | bencoh | oh, okay |
| 11:21.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure :-) |
| 11:21.58 | bencoh | and ... who uses 12V AC ? |
| 11:22.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | see Graetz |
| 11:22.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody using AC, but sometimes you swap polarity |
| 11:22.45 | bencoh | then diodes wouldnt do the job, would they ? |
| 11:22.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure they do |
| 11:23.11 | bencoh | to protect or to charge ? |
| 11:23.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki graetz rectifier |
| 11:23.44 | bencoh | hmm okay, time for me to read and learn :) |
| 11:23.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_bridge |
| 11:23.54 | ndnihil | was just trying to find the schematic for his avr32 dev board |
| 11:24.07 | ndnihil | if I remember right it has a nice clearly laid out section on that |
| 11:24.43 | bencoh | oh, quite simple indeed :) |
| 11:24.49 | ndnihil | yeah |
| 11:25.05 | ndnihil | simple enough that it makes you wonder why all manufacturers of anything ever don't do it |
| 11:25.15 | bencoh | :-) |
| 11:25.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | downside: the diodes eat some voltage (usually 0.7V per diode) |
| 11:25.33 | ndnihil | but then you're reminded of the reality of planned failure and obsalescence |
| 11:25.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | for charger that's pretty irrelevant |
| 11:26.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | so a greatz bridge will cut down ~1.4V from your input voltage |
| 11:27.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | nowadays you can use "better diodes" that would reduce that to around a half of that |
| 11:27.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | or even smart active circuitry (some FETs) that basically eliminate that effect completely |
| 11:28.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are "ideal diodes" components, consisting of a FET transistor with very low Ron series resistance, plus some more integrated stuff to make the FET open only for one direction of polarity |
| 11:29.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | the thing behaves like a diode, but without the 0.7V issue |
| 11:30.52 | enyc | ooo things happening =) |
| 11:31.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: sure, I'm kinda back from holidays |
| 11:31.23 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: do the 'better diodes' have slow response time? |
| 11:31.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 11:31.32 | ndnihil | s/obsalescence/obsolescence/ |
| 11:31.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | slower than real ones at least |
| 11:31.40 | ndnihil | stabs bot |
| 11:33.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: but still more than fast enough for usual 50Hz (or even 400Hz) AC |
| 11:33.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't use them however for demodulation of AM radio |
| 11:34.40 | enyc | hrrm do schottky diodes have different failure modes tho ? |
| 11:34.48 | enyc | i guoss you could use both types of diode in parallel =) |
| 11:34.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envelope_detector |
| 11:35.02 | enyc | indeed i know about those |
| 11:35.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | schottky are "the better diodes" I mentioned above. Makes no sense to use them in parallel to a FET ideal diode though |
| 11:37.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | schottky have lower forward-voltage and very low parasitic capacitance, so are fine for stuff like envelope detector as well as graetz bridges with low voltage drop. But you still will have a voltage drop of ~1V over a graetz |
| 11:37.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is OK with me, for the use case |
| 11:39.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | the main "problem" is getting those nice golden pads onto the spacer frame |
| 11:40.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | just one of the problems under topic "get spacer frame built" |
| 11:45.04 | ndnihil | if you can get drawings of the case, I can knock a couple out |
| 11:46.14 | ndnihil | hell the way I have my machine tweaked, something of that size would only take a few minutes |
| 11:46.28 | ndnihil | though I'd dial down the speed for better quality |
| 11:58.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | getting precise drawings of the case is one of the major tasks of this work package. Maybe wpwrak can do that with his CNC |
| 12:01.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | refer to http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/spacerframe/sketch.pdf for the basics |
| 12:02.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | the brownish one is the original N900 lower half of case |
| 12:02.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | the magenta is old/new keyboard/spacer frame |
| 12:04.24 | ndnihil | not enough info to produce anything, but it looks like an easy print |
| 12:05.22 | ndnihil | know where I can pick up a cheap n900? |
| 12:05.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | it is mostly easy to print. The problem is to get the shape/drawing/data right |
| 12:06.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | ndnihil: you can get dirt cheap case replacements on ebay. Like 16bucks for a complete set (complete in that it has lower half and kbd frame) |
| 12:07.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | for pictures of the real thing: http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/kbdframe/ |
| 12:07.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | complete working N900 are not that easy to find anymore |
| 12:07.51 | ndnihil | http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/kbdframe/2014-06-27_02-39-24.jpg |
| 12:07.57 | ndnihil | clips like that aren't going to print well |
| 12:08.13 | ndnihil | low area and oriented perpendicular to layer |
| 12:08.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I gather as much. but then, we don't exactly need them anymore |
| 12:08.25 | ndnihil | they'll break easily |
| 12:09.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | the new spacerframe to replace the kbd frame will be much more rigid and held down on at least 4 points by screws |
| 12:09.32 | ndnihil | screwed can definitely be done |
| 12:09.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | it doesn't bend as easily as the old thin one |
| 12:10.17 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: largely break on USB? |
| 12:10.35 | ndnihil | hrm, $350 for an n900 on amazon |
| 12:10.50 | enyc | my working N900's have the USB port points on the moald scraped off, and then a new connector upside-down soldered firmly to all the metal =) |
| 12:10.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I'm not a mech guy. Not really. I'd hope for somebody with better knowledge than I have to take on this task of designing (and producing?) a spacerframe that "just works" |
| 12:11.23 | enyc | then, the gnd solders to that metal, the 5v runs round the board tno one of the gold points on a thicker wire, and 2 very thin wires carre the D+ D- to that pair of pads nearbyish ... |
| 12:11.51 | enyc | and extra insulating tape/layers needed to avoid short =) |
| 12:12.00 | enyc | so I have very robust new microUSB on there upside-down |
| 12:12.07 | enyc | have to file the case slightly to get connector in |
| 12:12.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, |
| 12:12.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~usbfix |
| 12:12.12 | infobot | usbfix is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater), or http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL2862BF3631A5C1AA&feature=player_detailpage&v=fYz5nIHH0iY#t=1861, you will basically need two irons: a small good one and a 60+ Watt |
| 12:14.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: you're around? |
| 12:14.46 | enyc | hrrm it can be done resoldering but i'd lost the pads |
| 12:14.52 | enyc | hence upside-down trick and much muhch stronger =) |
| 12:15.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: how's your N900 doing now? and what do you think about getting a proper 3D model of the case, so we could base spacer frame design on that? |
| 12:23.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal usbfix |
| 12:23.46 | infobot | "usbfix" is "http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater), or http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL2862BF3631A5C1AA&feature=player_detailpage&v=fYz5nIHH0iY#t=1861, you will basically need two irons: a small good one and a 60+ Watt" |
| 12:25.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater), or https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fYz5nIHH0iY#t=1866, you will basically need two irons: a small good one and a 60+ Watt |
| 12:25.06 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 12:26.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater), or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYz5nIHH0iY#t=1866, you will basically need two irons: a small good one and a 60+ Watt |
| 12:26.41 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 12:27.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater), or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYz5nIHH0iY#t=1866, you will basically need two irons: a small good one (or better hot-air reflow) and a 60+ Watt |
| 12:27.26 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 12:28.45 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: good morning ! :) just got up. lemme check the backlog ... |
| 12:28.53 | ndnihil | estel designed n900 case? |
| 12:29.04 | ndnihil | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1393884&postcount=2 |
| 12:30.26 | wpwrak | (3d scan) yeah, i'll try to set up that bloddy scanner sw on my pc. the stuff is windows-only and something like a decade or two old. once upon a long ago, i had it all running under virtualbox, but that pc then died, and with it that installation :-( |
| 12:31.31 | wpwrak | so this will take some time. also, the scans are *slow*. but they're nice to look at, and rather useful for the sort of work we plan to do there |
| 12:31.52 | ndnihil | when you go from point cloud to mesh, make it a friendly format please :) |
| 12:33.09 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: question: PHS8 is about USD 80 ? or was that EUR 80 ? and do we have a guess for WLAN/BT/FM (WG7351-00) ? |
| 12:34.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc 80 EUR |
| 12:34.52 | wpwrak | ndnihil: a few years ago, i did these scans (of the ben nanonote, a bit smaller than the n900). exported all the formats the critter knew: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ben-scans/ |
| 12:35.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't have any hard price figures since I didn't do sourcing so far |
| 12:35.28 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: any best guess ? or are mine plausible enough ? |
| 12:36.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think Nik mentioned one of the critters being quite expensive, with ~50bucks |
| 12:36.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | the others in the range of 25 maybe. But that's really talking outa my rear end |
| 12:38.04 | wpwrak | speaking os sourcing: the fancy side-facing thin RGB LEDs (MSL0201RGBW1) are currently out of stock at Digi-Key and Mouser. they're the only part mentioned in the block diagram that's down to zero. |
| 12:38.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://projects.goldelico.com/p/neo900/issues/546/ |
| 12:41.14 | wpwrak | so about USD 40. thanks ! |
| 12:42.55 | wpwrak | do you remember what you paid for the reel of fpc connectors, and how many were there on that reel ? |
| 12:43.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? |
| 12:43.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | the display cons? |
| 12:43.55 | wpwrak | yes |
| 12:44.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | we paid well under 1EUR iirc |
| 12:44.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | got 1k iirc |
| 12:44.50 | wpwrak | perfect. thanks ! |
| 12:44.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically negligible |
| 12:45.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | those friggin damn sideway facing RGB LEDs :-/ |
| 12:46.04 | wpwrak | mouser.com lists them at USD 2.10 each on a 2000 units reel. seems you got a good deal :) |
| 12:46.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 12:46.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | mouser is.... |
| 12:46.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | not always the cheapest |
| 12:46.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I can't recall what they cost |
| 12:46.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | us |
| 12:47.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | we were happy to have found enough of them |
| 12:47.06 | wpwrak | (leds) guess we're the only ones who want colorized keyboard lighting :-) well, maybe art lebedev, too ;-) |
| 12:48.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the spacer frame illumination (AUX LEDs) we can go for 3 discrete LEDs, doesn't make much of a difference |
| 12:48.39 | wpwrak | modem cost estimate is good at USD 80 ? |
| 12:48.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | for dang kbd backlight though... ;:-S |
| 12:49.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, I told you it's EUR |
| 12:49.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | and maybe rather 100 for LTE |
| 12:49.19 | wpwrak | yeah, at some point you'd run out of space for 18 LEDs :) and it would probably look funny |
| 12:49.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno |
| 12:49.32 | wpwrak | ah, EUR, sorry ... editing ... |
| 12:50.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | you never know what prices you can get until you got the components in your shelf |
| 12:50.32 | wpwrak | sadly, that's true |
| 12:50.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't even know where Nik wants to get the modems from |
| 12:50.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe directly from Cinterion |
| 12:51.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | sourcing is job of hardware house, which is GDC, not job of EE (mine) |
| 12:51.49 | ndnihil | wpwrak: those scans don't look too bad at all |
| 12:52.08 | wpwrak | so ... BOM cost for 10 units, with items from the block diagram, best guesses for things that don't have a catalog price, excluding a few critters we don't know yet, and excluding anything too small to make it into the block diagram would be USD 370 = EUR 270. (for PHS8) |
| 12:52.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 12:52.43 | ndnihil | what scanner hardware? |
| 12:53.22 | wpwrak | for 100 units, it goes down to USD 340, 1000 units USD 310. after that, the catalog prices don't have meaningful discounts |
| 12:53.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | per unit |
| 12:53.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 12:53.53 | wpwrak | per unit, yes. total would not only be a miracle but a rather beautiful one, too ;-) |
| 12:53.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is incl PCB and what else? |
| 12:54.06 | wpwrak | just components |
| 12:54.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ouch |
| 12:54.18 | wpwrak | no PCB, no camera, no spacer frame, no keyboard |
| 12:54.28 | wpwrak | speaking of which, do you have estimates for those ? |
| 12:54.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | pcb dunno 30? |
| 12:55.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | domesheet: 20, spacer frame: unknown, camera: 15 |
| 12:55.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | (camera for the new solution) |
| 12:56.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | (otherwise, camera + SMIA: 50) |
| 12:56.25 | wpwrak | ndnihil: roland MDX-15 CNC mill (which also has a scanning head). scanning works by moving a gently vibrating needle across space and whenever it touches something, we have a data point |
| 12:56.39 | ndnihil | ah gotcha |
| 12:57.01 | ndnihil | I've got a microscribe here |
| 12:57.06 | wpwrak | looks for a wooden stake for that SMIA |
| 12:57.45 | ndnihil | http://www.sophics.com/en/i/dok3d/8.jpg |
| 12:57.47 | ndnihil | one of those |
| 12:57.56 | ndnihil | same model |
| 12:58.10 | wpwrak | looks very fancy :) |
| 12:58.17 | ndnihil | it was like $15k new |
| 12:58.22 | ndnihil | cost me a whole $0 |
| 12:58.23 | ndnihil | :) |
| 12:58.38 | wpwrak | nice discount :) |
| 12:58.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't do tiny details? |
| 12:58.42 | ndnihil | it was bought for a project, never used, and sat in a box for a couple years until it was given to me |
| 12:58.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe just depends on tip? |
| 12:59.09 | ndnihil | it has a not-quite-needle point on the tip |
| 12:59.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 12:59.34 | ndnihil | tip size is calibrated to the machine |
| 12:59.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | which would be pretty inappropriate for inner side of L shaped surfaces |
| 12:59.47 | ndnihil | if I were to change it, it would throw everything off |
| 13:00.03 | ndnihil | nah it can get in tight grooves as long as the rest of the mechanism behind it can fit |
| 13:00.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, fine then |
| 13:00.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ndnihil: do you want me to ship a N900 case to you? |
| 13:00.34 | wpwrak | unlike my mill, it can probably also crawl under things |
| 13:00.46 | ndnihil | well, funny thing about my microscribe is |
| 13:00.49 | ndnihil | I've never used it |
| 13:00.56 | ndnihil | need to finish writing the software :) |
| 13:01.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 13:01.14 | ndnihil | it's win-only from the manufacturer |
| 13:01.44 | wpwrak | ndnihil: previous owner "cool, i'll pay anything for it." but then: "meh". new owner "cool, and i got it for free !" but then "meh". there seems to be a pattern :) |
| 13:01.50 | ndnihil | I got part way through writing a driver and getting it to output points to openscad |
| 13:01.54 | ndnihil | wpwrak: lol yeah |
| 13:02.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, then let's change the deal a bit: you come up with a scan of the N900 case and Neo900 UG pays all your expense (plus a small recompensation for your work, maybe in form of a voucher for Neo900 goods) |
| 13:02.20 | ndnihil | particularly when you can build laser scanners pretty cheap now |
| 13:03.10 | ndnihil | I was just contemplating buying an n900 from amazon |
| 13:03.20 | ndnihil | do it old school |
| 13:03.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, come up with a *good* case scan and we can finance that |
| 13:03.56 | ndnihil | some calipers, a bottle of vodka, and an evening or two doing it over and over until I get a part that works proper |
| 13:04.28 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: for the PCB, i got about EUR 100 each for 4-layer, 5 units. so USD 30 for 8 layer, 1000 units ? |
| 13:04.47 | ndnihil | how can I pass that up |
| 13:04.52 | ndnihil | clicks proceed to checkout |
| 13:04.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you can delibver a prot 3D printout of a fitting spacer frame according to the sketch in http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/spacerframe/sketch.pdf, we're talking :-) |
| 13:05.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: I have no real clue about PCB cost either |
| 13:06.12 | wpwrak | we'll actually need one more part: the inter-board support aka anti-flex. hopefully, this will be a bit easier. but can't be designed before we know exactly what the pcbs will look like (component placement and such) |
| 13:06.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe better talk to Nik about those details? |
| 13:06.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | (pricing of components) |
| 13:07.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | anti-flex? |
| 13:07.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, that one |
| 13:07.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | the kbd support? |
| 13:07.23 | wpwrak | yes |
| 13:07.46 | wpwrak | the "no press-to-crack" |
| 13:07.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I *still* think we need soldered mech posts in UPPER, and holes for them to go through and sit on case bottom, in LOWER |
| 13:08.05 | wpwrak | erm, domesheet 20, n97 cam 15 .... those are euros ? |
| 13:08.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 13:08.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | domesheet is with a tiny bit of headroom, maybe |
| 13:08.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | regilar sales is 16EUR + shipping for one |
| 13:09.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | cam I dunno, maybe we get it for 11 |
| 13:09.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | again, you might regularly want to talk to Nik first, only ask me about special parts that are N900 legacy |
| 13:10.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not the hw house, not the cash department |
| 13:10.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm "only" EE and project lead |
| 13:14.22 | wpwrak | you're our n900opedia ;-) |
| 13:15.57 | wpwrak | 10 units cost now at USD 418. 1000 units at USD 360, but several parts have "1 unit" pricing, so that should still come down a bit |
| 13:16.49 | ndnihil | n900 ordered |
| 13:17.02 | ndnihil | and I can finish printing my laser scanner while I wait for it to ship |
| 13:18.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: please be careful with public statements like those, yiu're quoting some pricetag that can easily get misunderstood. We're talking BOM here |
| 13:18.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I prefer discussing such stuff in our non-public channel |
| 13:20.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | you have no idea what a zillion occasional readers of chanlog will make out of such fuzzy statements |
| 13:21.47 | wpwrak | alright, let's take it non-public then |
| 13:25.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, for allowing our customers a short glimpse at what WE are facing, particularly when it comes down to "why is this thing soooo expensive", it served a good purpose, when we can make utterly clear here that those figures were about how much it costs US to get the components we need to solder on a PCB and mount into a case |
| 13:27.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | so, not counting any expense for work *we* do on this, we are already at ~600EUR per NeoN board |
| 13:28.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | (since we have to count in expense for DOA components, loss in yield in production, production cost itself, etc) |
| 13:29.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | then we have shipping/handling/warranty on top of that, too |
| 13:29.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | and we still haven't made a single buck on that, at this pricetag |
| 13:30.14 | wpwrak | hmm, my prices are all in USD. so we should end up a bit below EUR 600 |
| 13:30.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | you think so? |
| 13:30.49 | wpwrak | (costs) and let's not forget but external items like certification, which should be in the order of 10+ kUSD |
| 13:31.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | that too |
| 13:31.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a quite tough business |
| 13:34.06 | wpwrak | for 1000 units, i'd expect to end up with ~USD 350 for parts, add maybe 100 for assembly, then 20% for yield and overhead. so about USD 550. let's round up to 600. that's EUR 440. the euro is strong these days. |
| 13:34.43 | wpwrak | that's just manufacturing costs. now add R&D, certification, etc. |
| 13:35.26 | wpwrak | and i wouldn't include shipping in the cost calculation. that's too random to have on our side. |
| 13:36.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | assembly etc is also too random to already discuss it publicly |
| 13:36.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | so is yield |
| 13:36.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | you never know |
| 13:36.58 | wpwrak | there are also a few big ticket items in there for which i only have one price point: modem, wlan, pop ram, etc. so some may include discounts but others don't. |
| 13:37.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | POP ram is a good point. What did you calculate for that? |
| 13:37.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, we're again public |
| 13:38.10 | wpwrak | with a good fab, i'd expect yield to be 0% for the N boards it takes to weed out the obvious mistakes, then 90% or better for the rest of the test run(s) |
| 13:38.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just can say you never know |
| 13:38.55 | wpwrak | after than, 95% or better should be quite feasible, even with a "heavy" system like ours. the board split helps there since a broken upper doesn't also kill a lower, and vice versa |
| 13:39.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 13:39.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what we hope for. Reality might bite our ass |
| 13:39.55 | wpwrak | (public) component prices shouldn't create much confusion. totals are more dangerous |
| 13:40.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I seem to recall GC has a 100% yield policy option |
| 13:40.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I might be mistaken but I seem to recall Nik mentioning sth like this, which would be a really nice thing to have |
| 13:41.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course such policy doesn't come for free |
| 13:41.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's basically an insurance |
| 13:42.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it speaks loud of GC's quality and experience |
| 13:45.56 | wpwrak | yeah, a good fab can get close to 100%. even fic aimed for some 97-98% and we all know how things were run there ;-) |
| 13:55.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah :-P |
| 13:56.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, when GC promises 100% yield, we got rid of one big PITA in our calculations |
| 13:56.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I however wonder how they gonna do that when they don't use 100% own entry-QA'ed components |
| 13:57.26 | wpwrak | yeah, it sounds as if they're promising the impossible |
| 13:57.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | figure we provide a lemon batch of modems to them, with 50% crooks |
| 13:58.32 | wpwrak | maybe if they engineer the whole process. dunno. but with our context they simply can't make such guarantees. |
| 13:58.46 | wpwrak | but at least they're confident about their yield. that's already a good thing :) |
| 13:59.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | nothing is impossible, it's just a high risk for them to produce another 80% of boards on top, on own expense, to reach the 100% yield they promise - *if* they actually do such promise, which I'm still not at all sure about |
| 14:00.06 | wpwrak | btw, the aux leds aren't the troublesome type. so we're good there. it's just the 6 kbd backlight leds. |
| 14:00.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe we should cancel the RGB kbd backlight |
| 14:01.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | at all: what do you think about the RGB kbd backlight? how much are you willing to pay for that gimmick? |
| 14:01.14 | wpwrak | i like that idea ! :) |
| 14:01.46 | ndnihil | rgb would be cool, but honestly, I'd just leave mine at red |
| 14:02.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure. we could offer alternative fixed colors for kbd bl: white, red, orange, yellow, green, blue |
| 14:02.44 | wpwrak | customarily, the backlight color is white. your night vision normally gets disturbed by what's on the display anyway. |
| 14:02.49 | ndnihil | rgb notification LED for sure though |
| 14:03.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's never been questioned |
| 14:03.15 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: naw, you don't want to fragment our production even more |
| 14:03.35 | wpwrak | in the end, each board will have its own "personal" bom. that'll be quite expensive. |
| 14:03.37 | ndnihil | eh, for night situations, xcalib -green .1 0 1 -alter; xcalib -blue .1 0 1 -alter |
| 14:03.47 | wpwrak | it's already bad enough if we have four (!) different modems. |
| 14:03.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: there's not *so much* of a problem in this type of custom made units |
| 14:03.59 | ndnihil | that's my "nightmode" script for when I have the laptop out doing astrophotography |
| 14:05.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: the "individual BOM" is just a question of picker-placer program |
| 14:05.48 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: you still need to switch pick and place programs, even if you have all the colors mounted at the same time. change -> mistakes can happen. also, your yield gets more difficult since you can't just send another identical board if one fails testing. so you have to go back to produce more if you run into problems. |
| 14:05.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess we even can get whitequark to write a nifty gerber for that ;-) |
| 14:06.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy, leave the kbd bl LEDs out then, for the spares. I'll solder them by hand |
| 14:07.26 | wpwrak | ndnihil: okay, you're seriously taking it to extremes :) |
| 14:07.46 | wpwrak | (hand solder) that's the spirit ! ;-))) |
| 14:08.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | but indeed modem is a big issue for warranty logistics |
| 14:08.15 | ndnihil | lol |
| 14:08.27 | wpwrak | yes, the fewer modem options we need, the better |
| 14:08.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | then otoh the rest of LOWER is cheapish |
| 14:09.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | again sandwich comes in handy |
| 14:35.56 | *** join/#neo900 infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 14:35.56 | *** topic/#neo900 is http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ | 2013-11-04 - the day our fundraiser reached its goal, 25k EUR | 2013-12-02 - 200 devices reached! | 12-14 50035EUR, 232 units | 01-17 60kEUR, 300 units | 02-28 333 units, 70k⬠| 03-28 350 units, 400 donations, 73555⬠| 0501 360 410 75k | 0712 183 ~30k | 0810 300 ~49k |
| 14:35.56 | *** mode/#neo900 [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 14:36.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wb |
| 14:36.00 | infobot | thx |
| 14:38.31 | *** join/#neo900 modem2 (~modem@LMontsouris-656-01-36-83.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:39.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | afk, bbl |
| 14:39.40 | *** join/#neo900 modem (~modem@fsf/member/modem) |
| 14:54.03 | *** join/#neo900 AndrewX192 (~andrew@unaffiliated/andrewx192) |
| 15:01.40 | *** join/#neo900 e2718 (~hdesk@p4FD37AFE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:40.13 | ndnihil | my n900 should be here on the 29th |
| 15:40.15 | ndnihil | yay |
| 15:43.28 | *** join/#neo900 e2718 (~hdesk@p4FD37AFE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:58.31 | *** join/#neo900 sixwheeledbeast (~paul@host-92-17-50-118.as13285.net) |
| 16:17.16 | *** join/#neo900 mietek (mietek@bak.io) |
| 17:19.28 | x29a | ndnihil: how about your neo900? ;) |
| 17:19.40 | ndnihil | x29a: a good ways off sadly |
| 17:20.00 | ndnihil | I got the n900 so I could take it apart and CAD up a case/kb spacer |
| 17:21.35 | ndnihil | spacer for the neo900 that is |
| 17:55.30 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@221.77.69.86.rev.sfr.net) |
| 18:01.25 | bencoh | that's a broken one right ? |
| 18:08.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ndnihil: please wait a week before you take it apart. Odds are it breaks on that, and I might be able to ship a case to you for spacer design |
| 18:09.56 | ndnihil | bencoh: no, I actually ordered a new in box unit |
| 18:10.13 | ndnihil | I figure worst case scenario, I end up with a badass tv remote |
| 18:10.16 | ndnihil | :) |
| 18:13.21 | bencoh | wait, what ? :D |
| 18:15.31 | ndnihil | it can also serve as a hot spare for the girlfriend |
| 18:15.46 | ndnihil | she's rather abusive when it comes to phones |
| 18:15.54 | ndnihil | though she has done quite well with her s3 |
| 18:22.50 | ndnihil | though thinking about it, I doubt she'd be interested |
| 18:22.57 | ndnihil | no snapchat |
| 18:23.09 | ndnihil | or that other crap she and her sister use |
| 18:23.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ndnihil: for badass TV remote, you want *two*: one with the IRreco GUI/app, liked to the 2nd one via WLAN which serves as IR transmitter in front of your TV ;-) |
| 18:23.49 | *** join/#neo900 ravelo (c151261c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.81.38.28) |
| 18:23.57 | ravelo | hioo |
| 18:24.50 | ndnihil | I've got a pile of IR transceivers and random avr tinys, and each tv has an odroid u2 or a pi or similar attached to it |
| 18:24.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I once had that setup working, but at that time I had only two of them, and I needed both in active use, so no way to let one stay in front of TV for sending IR light |
| 18:25.01 | ndnihil | should be able to sort something out :) |
| 18:25.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey! :-D |
| 18:27.22 | ndnihil | I use the 2nd droid4, the droid1, and the xoom as remotes for xbmc |
| 18:27.32 | ndnihil | but I'd like a more consolidated remote |
| 18:27.37 | ndnihil | one remote to rule them all |
| 18:30.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, IRreco talks to LIRC netsock, so you can send those commands vie WLAN conveniently to any port on which whatever you like is listening |
| 18:31.16 | ndnihil | looking at it now |
| 18:31.27 | ndnihil | looks nifty |
| 18:33.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | all I had to do to make my two-N900 remote control been: change 127.0.0.1 to 192.168.1.33 (IP of 2nd N900) on the GUI N900. On 2nd with the 192.168.1.33 make sure lircd gets started at boot time |
| 18:34.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | instead of lircd you could use any other server on your arduino or whatever |
| 18:34.57 | ndnihil | ugh |
| 18:35.01 | ndnihil | fucking tarduino |
| 18:35.09 | ndnihil | I prefer straight avr |
| 18:35.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | even a shell script with some netcat and a few more lines to act on the inbound data |
| 18:35.35 | ndnihil | socat! |
| 18:41.15 | ndnihil | hrm, I think I'd probably just implement IR control of xbmc instead of using the phones |
| 18:41.27 | ndnihil | physical buttons > touch screen |
| 18:46.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea. dunno xbmc |
| 18:46.53 | ndnihil | mediapc frontend thing |
| 18:46.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah |
| 18:47.15 | ndnihil | has its faults, but probably the best packaged one out there |
| 18:47.45 | ndnihil | I'll probably end up going the linuxmce route after I get the house wired properly |
| 18:48.42 | ndnihil | it's media server, security camera, pbx, home automation, etc... all in one setup |
| 18:48.53 | ndnihil | video/music that can follow you around the house |
| 18:48.56 | ndnihil | that sort of thing |
| 18:57.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds cool. I'm not there yet, but constantly though slowly working similar direction |
| 19:03.10 | ndnihil | really the only thing not in place for me now is the wiring of the new house |
| 19:03.21 | ndnihil | bought this one around a year and a half ago |
| 19:03.34 | ndnihil | still have things rather cobbled together at the moment |
| 19:04.03 | ndnihil | half the cameras are on wifi, which needs to change |
| 19:04.18 | ndnihil | I've got enterprise grade wifi gear here, but I'd much prefer wired |
| 19:04.45 | ndnihil | 4 or 5 720p camera streams can tax even a good wifi environment |
| 19:10.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | WiFi is for losers anyway, when you can have decent cable |
| 19:10.47 | ndnihil | yeah |
| 19:12.09 | ndnihil | I've got a 48 port 10Gbps with sfp+ switch on order |
| 19:12.17 | ndnihil | poe+ on all ports |
| 19:12.26 | ndnihil | it hasn't hit the market yet though |
| 19:13.14 | ndnihil | I've seen medium sized enterprise that doesn't get the kind of hardware I have at home :) |
| 19:13.45 | ndnihil | but I work from home, and test a lot of hardware prior to deployment |
| 19:13.53 | ndnihil | the test units stay here |
| 19:15.51 | ndnihil | http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgeswitch/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Learn%20More&utm_campaign=Price%20Performance%20Breakthrough%20for%20True%20Enterprise%20Switch%20%20Technology |
| 19:16.01 | ndnihil | ES-48-750W on the way |
| 19:16.57 | ndnihil | I've taken quite a liking to the ubiquiti gear |
| 19:17.17 | ndnihil | their wifi is great |
| 19:24.11 | *** join/#neo900 Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 19:27.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: welcome! :-) |
| 19:27.20 | Pali | :-) |
| 19:28.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | so, finally time to go afk for a while. bbl folks |
| 20:18.04 | *** join/#neo900 sixwheeledbeast (~paul@host-89-243-240-79.as13285.net) |
| 20:27.10 | ndnihil | please tell me your /nick means you drive a G 6x6 |
| 20:45.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ndnihil: sorry? |
| 20:45.57 | ndnihil | 15:28 -!- sixwheeledbeast [~paul@host-89-243-240-79.as13285.net] has joined #neo900 |
| 20:46.29 | ndnihil | http://blog.priveinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/mercedes-benz-6x6-desert.jpg |
| 20:46.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth like this, yes |
| 20:46.45 | ndnihil | I have an older 4x4 G |
| 20:46.59 | ndnihil | early W460 diesel |
| 20:47.06 | ndnihil | mein zombiewagen! |
| 20:47.38 | ndnihil | https://old.ndnihil.org/misc/vehicles/g-wagen/meingelandewagen-sm.jpg |
| 20:47.41 | ndnihil | ^that's mine |
| 20:47.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think he once mentioned it was a crysler or sth, though |
| 20:47.48 | ndnihil | ah |
| 20:49.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | or ford, or whatever |
| 20:49.05 | ndnihil | hrm, I can't think of any mopar 6x6 |
| 20:49.39 | ndnihil | old military truck by chance? |
| 20:52.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask sixwheeledbeast |
| 20:52.36 | ndnihil | I'm sure if he were around he'd have chimed in by now |
| 20:52.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | not until you highlight him |
| 20:52.56 | ndnihil | anyone driving something with more than the usual number of wheels will jump at the chance to talk about it |
| 20:53.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | which may or may not have happened by quoting his login notice |
| 20:53.55 | ndnihil | unless it's something like a dump truck or tractor trailer |
| 20:54.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | those hardly ever qualify as beast |
| 20:54.30 | ndnihil | yeah, that's service truck territory |
| 21:16.39 | *** join/#neo900 norly (~norly@enpas.org) |
| 21:16.40 | *** join/#neo900 vakkov (~vakko@vlan-174-game-235.comnet.bg) |
| 22:13.08 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik_ (~quassel@221.77.69.86.rev.sfr.net) |
| 22:16.12 | sixwheeledbeast | ndnihil: Dodge T-Rex BTW |
| 22:16.31 | ndnihil | ooooh |
| 22:16.37 | ndnihil | nice! |
| 22:16.47 | sixwheeledbeast | :nod: |
| 22:17.29 | sixwheeledbeast | unfortunately a pricey prototype vehicle |
| 22:17.54 | ndnihil | yeah there's only a handful of them out there no? |
| 22:19.29 | ndnihil | in addition to loving my G, I'm also a big mopar fan |
| 22:19.37 | sixwheeledbeast | 7 I believe only seen a few of them on the net |
| 22:19.42 | ndnihil | `68 Charger R/T here |
| 22:20.05 | sixwheeledbeast | the 8.0L V10 it had is now obsolete |
| 22:20.53 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@221.77.69.86.rev.sfr.net) |
| 22:21.12 | ndnihil | still a solid lump though |
| 22:21.39 | ndnihil | throw a huge TB on there and megasquirt it |
| 22:24.03 | ndnihil | you modified it at all or still running stock? |
| 22:24.22 | sixwheeledbeast | I must point out I don't own one |
| 22:24.48 | ndnihil | doh |
| 22:24.50 | ndnihil | just a fan? |
| 22:25.17 | sixwheeledbeast | It just became my alias back in 1997 and stuck ever since. |
| 22:25.25 | ndnihil | gotcha |
| 22:25.38 | ndnihil | I've fallen in lust with the G 6x6 |
| 22:25.44 | ndnihil | want badly |
| 22:26.33 | ndnihil | when I was shopping around and ended up with my old W460 G, the pinzgauer 712k was high on my list |
| 22:26.36 | ndnihil | it's a 6x6 |
| 22:27.02 | sixwheeledbeast | I had a Panda 4x4 as my first car which to this day was the most fun vehicle I have driven. |
| 22:27.35 | ndnihil | fiat? |
| 22:27.50 | sixwheeledbeast | :nod: |
| 22:28.03 | ndnihil | hah, I didn't even know they made those in 4x4 |
| 22:28.17 | ndnihil | that would be a fun ride |
| 22:28.27 | ndnihil | I always wanted a subaru brat |
| 22:28.33 | ndnihil | in the small car'ish 4x4 department |
| 22:29.04 | sixwheeledbeast | It's small kerb weight and quick throttle response was great especially in snow and mud. |
| 22:29.17 | ndnihil | I had a samurai that was like that |
| 22:29.30 | ndnihil | very underrated little getaround those |
| 22:29.50 | sixwheeledbeast | samurai? suzuki? |
| 22:29.53 | ndnihil | yeah |
| 22:30.00 | sixwheeledbeast | aka sj? |
| 22:30.27 | ndnihil | http://bestartcarz.com/data_images/models/suzuki-samurai/suzuki-samurai-03.jpg |
| 22:31.02 | sixwheeledbeast | yep we called them the SJ410 over here |
| 22:31.24 | ndnihil | where is there? |
| 22:31.39 | sixwheeledbeast | they are more off road based. UK |
| 22:31.54 | ndnihil | ah, that's where my G is from |
| 22:31.57 | ndnihil | it's RHD |
| 22:32.03 | ndnihil | originally sold in devon |
| 23:13.56 | *** join/#neo900 norly (~norly@enpas.org) |
