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| 03:31.35 | Oksana | What is happening with transmission lines? And dome sheets? |
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| 11:59.47 | jonwil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93938 |
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| 12:26.26 | enyc | wonders why n900 [not noe900] might like to fgive small rotated display sometimes on bootup... i wonder if there was a known buf with rotation sensors or if its sjust software bug |
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| 12:30.27 | wpwrak | (looking through jonwil's post) /sys/bin/CameraAlgProc ... wow, now that looks evil |
| 12:55.41 | *** join/#neo900 kerio (kerio@acehack.de) |
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| 15:27.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: I guess that's the semi-proprietary image-enhancement software Nokia's camera manufacturer provided for that particular camera |
| 15:29.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | re mozilla parcel, I got mistaken by those forms fedex sent me to sign. A call to them turned out that mozilla pays for all expense of this shipping, incl any VAT and import tax (fedex guy - extremely kind one - says "that's usual since they can book the VAT as expense") |
| 15:32.07 | mvaenskae | DocScrutinizer05: o m g |
| 15:32.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | just let's hope mozilla doesn't invoice Neo900 UG in turn, for the VAT and import of 5 dozen totally overpriced N900 and defect BL-5J |
| 15:32.14 | mvaenskae | that is awesomesauce |
| 15:32.27 | mvaenskae | well, that would be pretty uncool |
| 15:32.43 | bencoh | oO |
| 15:32.50 | mvaenskae | all batteries dead but the devices are still working? |
| 15:33.01 | mvaenskae | so you got 60 devices? |
| 15:33.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | 55, and I haven't seen them yet |
| 15:33.35 | kerio | can i get a couple? |
| 15:34.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: depends. When you're doing development, we for sure will send you a loaner |
| 15:34.15 | kerio | but that requires doing stuff |
| 15:34.48 | *** join/#neo900 Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 15:35.05 | mvaenskae | DocScrutinizer05: may i ask what you are going to use them for? |
| 15:35.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | for devel loaners |
| 15:35.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | and to base a few prototypes on them |
| 15:36.01 | kerio | don't you have like 8 of your n900s for that? |
| 15:36.08 | mvaenskae | hm, devel for the n900? why not devel for the neo900 or is the hardware that similiar? |
| 15:36.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, it's that similar |
| 15:36.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the main design rule for Neo900 |
| 15:36.42 | kerio | hold on, is it for fptf? |
| 15:36.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 15:36.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | among others |
| 15:37.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course also SHR, replicant, whatever |
| 15:37.12 | kerio | how can you port maemo to the neo900 if you're actually porting it to the n900? |
| 15:37.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: since both are supposed to be hardware compatible to a certain degree |
| 15:37.45 | kerio | ok actually |
| 15:37.50 | kerio | will fptf's os also work on n900? |
| 15:37.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | should |
| 15:37.57 | kerio | because i'd like a more recent kernel |
| 15:38.07 | kerio | and no busybox |
| 15:38.18 | bencoh | (the last one is unrelated :]) |
| 15:38.30 | bencoh | (s/last one/latter/) |
| 15:38.32 | kerio | ([:) |
| 15:38.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, just had to report briefly in here. AFK again |
| 15:38.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | RL caling |
| 15:42.46 | *** join/#neo900 JoHnY (~johny@imaginarium.2600.sk) |
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| 15:49.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | (<kerio> don't you have like 8 of your n900s) well, I'm up to 12some on the one hand, on the other hand I already "used" a maybe 5 of them for R&D |
| 15:49.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | for proto_V2 we will need another 6 ones |
| 15:50.00 | kerio | i see |
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| 16:01.57 | freemangordon | hmm, maybe REing PA module-nokia-voice etc won't be that hard |
| 16:02.00 | *** join/#neo900 modem (~modem@fsf/member/modem) |
| 16:02.18 | freemangordon | most of the stuff in it is same (or similar) to meego modules |
| 16:02.55 | freemangordon | we will only need to RE xprot, xprot-ambient-temp and eq parts |
| 16:20.27 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: eve seen http://nielsmayer.com/meego/N900-Pulseaudio-Configuration.png ? |
| 16:20.33 | freemangordon | *ever |
| 16:21.11 | bencoh | woot |
| 16:21.32 | freemangordon | hmm? |
| 16:21.52 | bencoh | I hadnt, and it's interesting :) |
| 16:22.22 | freemangordon | me neither, just found it while searching for some n900 PA related stuff :) |
| 16:22.44 | freemangordon | not sure if it is the same on maemo, but should be |
| 16:54.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: well, I kinda seem to know that, yeah. Though from other source |
| 16:54.15 | freemangordon | good |
| 16:59.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf p.15 |
| 17:01.27 | freemangordon | yep, the same |
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| 17:28.33 | rax | <DocScrutinizer> I just sent you an email with some thoughts on external auditing of peripheral sandboxing logic. |
| 17:52.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm Paul? Yup |
| 17:54.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | we however have no sandboxing, we have total separation of address space of any peripherals and the Linux CPU |
| 17:55.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | _all_ cimmunication between CPU and any paripheral is under 100% control on protocol level by CPU |
| 17:56.09 | rax | Ok, so the CPU has to use memory mapped I/O (or something similar) to get to the memory space the peripherals see? |
| 17:56.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the CPU (and security concerns) it doesn't make a difference the peripherals are embedded into same case. They as well could sit on next desk, or in Australia and being attached via internet |
| 17:57.01 | rax | That must make it fun to modify drivers. :-) |
| 17:57.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, we talk to peripherals via e.g "RS232" |
| 17:57.31 | rax | Well, hopefully you're faster than an RS-232. :-) |
| 17:57.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no such thing like address space involved at all |
| 17:57.55 | rax | Ok, so you have a protocol to a separate CPU that lives with the peripherals? |
| 17:58.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | modem is attached via USB |
| 17:58.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | WKAN attached via SPI iirc |
| 17:58.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | WLAN even |
| 17:58.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | BT is UART and some other protocil |
| 17:59.02 | kerio | rofl, people actually can't fathom a phone where shit is actually all shared under a closed hypervisor |
| 17:59.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's always some 2 to 4 wires |
| 17:59.37 | rax | Ok, so you have high speed serial to some other board. 4 wires is good. |
| 17:59.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | no address bus involved |
| 17:59.56 | rax | So the CPU board has no advanced peripherals attached to the memory bus at all then. That's even better. |
| 18:00.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what I try to tell you, yes |
| 18:00.22 | rax | Ok. That makes things very easy then. |
| 18:00.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 18:00.48 | rax | I'm used to talking about high performance motherboards where doing that would negatively impact the performance of very high speed peripherals. |
| 18:00.52 | rax | In this case, it shouldn't be necessary. |
| 18:00.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | auditing is: 130 seconds look at http://neo900.org/stuff/werner/web/gta04b7v2-wip-2014092209.pdf |
| 18:01.38 | kerio | USB can still push enough data for LTE, right? |
| 18:01.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | highest bandwidth we need is with modem, thus we got USB2.0 there |
| 18:01.48 | rax | Right. |
| 18:02.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | 480mbps |
| 18:02.17 | rax | That's fast enough to make hay. |
| 18:02.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, actually WLAN might need even more |
| 18:02.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | than modem |
| 18:03.16 | rax | As you can imagine, I'm not one to trust anything that has a state machine, a CPU or DMA. |
| 18:03.16 | rax | :-) |
| 18:03.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | but honestly, prolly OMAP3730 isn't fast enough for >>100MBps anyway |
| 18:03.40 | kerio | i want gigE :c |
| 18:04.17 | rax | Do you still want gigE if it gives someone a direct attack vector into your operating system? :-) |
| 18:04.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | it seems sustained write speed to eMMC is ~15MB/s |
| 18:04.33 | kerio | rax: as long as the attack vector is fast! |
| 18:05.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | read that is, write might drop after a short while |
| 18:05.19 | kerio | i doubt write will even start at that speed |
| 18:06.05 | rax | Do you guys have any estimates on how many N900 bodies are available in the wild? |
| 18:06.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno off top of my head the max BW of SPI |
| 18:06.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | err SDIO |
| 18:06.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's been what WLAN has, I seem to recall |
| 18:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly in line with eMMC bandwidth |
| 18:09.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | NB I don't say the CPU side drivers for interfaces like SDIO, USB etc are secure per se. They are possibly vulnerable to one-off and buffer-overflow attacks like any other protocol. However that's something that can't get possibly solved in hardware, it's responsibility of the driver developers and auditors |
| 18:10.09 | rax | Yeah, that's a software problem. |
| 18:10.34 | rax | Doc - is the eMMC removable or hard-wired? |
| 18:10.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | eMMC is hardwired. uSD is in tray |
| 18:11.21 | rax | (I'm spending way more than 130 seconds looking at the logic diagram. :-) ) |
| 18:11.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | we pondered to have a second uSD instead of eMMC but the interface is only 4bit instead of 8bit like eMMC has |
| 18:11.57 | rax | Yeah, mem performance would suck. |
| 18:11.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | so for sake of available bandwidth we want at least one eMMC attached |
| 18:12.26 | rax | Looking at this hurts my head because I'm more familiar with thinking about memory bandwidth in the 10's of Gbps. |
| 18:12.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's not embedded though ;-) |
| 18:13.32 | rax | What's the maximum memory size of the uSD? |
| 18:14.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | you asked about final sales price. Please refer to http://neo900.org/faq#cost |
| 18:14.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | (max uSD size) I seem to have seen people using 64GB cards in N900 without problems |
| 18:15.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | 32GB are "guaranteed" |
| 18:15.19 | rax | Ok. |
| 18:15.23 | rax | That's enough. :-) |
| 18:17.01 | rax | I really like what you guys are doing. The landscape for phone technology is depressing. |
| 18:17.19 | bencoh | so true |
| 18:17.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think there should be some headroom in price to make some money from a secure OS, selling the combo at 1000+ |
| 18:17.31 | rax | The problem(s) are from top to bottom and you guys are working at the bottom. I'm working at the top. :-) |
| 18:17.55 | rax | I've had conversations with people and there is plenty of demand for a very high priced secure device. |
| 18:18.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | (secure OS) actually this is a point on my strategic long term business plan |
| 18:18.37 | rax | However...you may not make many friends in high places. |
| 18:18.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 18:18.59 | rax | Removing the hardware attack vectors goes a long way toward making linux viable to be truly secure. |
| 18:19.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | not like I made many before in my long life ;-) |
| 18:19.07 | rax | :-) |
| 18:19.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | (Removing the hardware attack vectors) that's the goal |
| 18:20.07 | rax | The world is evolving to the point where there are larger and larger factions of buyers who will pay more and more for a secure hardware device. |
| 18:20.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | make a device that's decent enough on hw level to allow a decent OS on top |
| 18:20.24 | rax | Question - not sure if you know the answer...(I know very little about the cell protocols.) |
| 18:20.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know a bit, not much though |
| 18:20.54 | rax | When audio data is sent between handsets through the network, is the packet data massaged at all by the network or can it be packetized raw data? |
| 18:21.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually gets mangled by audio-enhancement in exchange |
| 18:21.38 | rax | That's what I suspected. |
| 18:22.06 | rax | "Audio enhancement" = "Break communications except in audio form" |
| 18:22.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup, basically |
| 18:22.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you use CSD data connection |
| 18:22.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | or modem-over-GSM |
| 18:22.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | which wil net out at ~1000bits/s |
| 18:23.07 | rax | Yeah. |
| 18:23.14 | rax | It is clear what has been set up. :-) |
| 18:23.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | allegedly somebody made almost 2000 iirc |
| 18:23.20 | rax | Something that is ... not clear. |
| 18:23.46 | rax | Yeah, but as soon as you do (de)mod, you're stepping on all sorts of rules. |
| 18:24.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask modem |
| 18:24.10 | rax | Don't want to get on the wrong side of laws. :-) |
| 18:24.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | user: modem |
| 18:24.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | we had a discussion about all that a few weeks ago |
| 18:25.09 | rax | FCC rules state (I believe) that transmitting anything encrypted with the intention of obscuring the message is a no-no. |
| 18:25.25 | rax | That's in the US, anyway. I'm sure all major states treat this the same way. |
| 18:25.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I just today finally closed the browser window of that kickstarter dongle thingie that encrypts voice over any arbitrary GSM connection |
| 18:26.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, we don't have such noncense here |
| 18:26.09 | rax | Anyone doing that gets on a short list real quick. |
| 18:26.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik, at least |
| 18:26.28 | rax | Yeah. |
| 18:26.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | inly applies to HAM radio |
| 18:26.53 | rax | The FCC encryption rules only apply to HAM? |
| 18:26.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | encryption via any sort of phonecall is absolutely legal |
| 18:27.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | the German rules do |
| 18:27.16 | rax | I like the German rules. :-) |
| 18:27.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | NFC FCC |
| 18:27.31 | rax | (Although I know almost 0.0% of what they are.) |
| 18:27.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | France forbids encryption completely |
| 18:27.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | or at least they did |
| 18:28.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | Grm,an government sponsored an university research project to encrypt voice calls |
| 18:28.34 | rax | Do you guys have plans to make your own cases if you get this first phase of your business model functioning and profitable? |
| 18:29.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends. When we hit 5digits order volume, we have to |
| 18:29.33 | rax | Oh yeah, do you have any idea how many N900's exist to be bought for these? |
| 18:29.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now we're struggling inmidst the 3 digit range |
| 18:29.53 | rax | I saw the latest info - you've got something like 350 preorders? |
| 18:29.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need spare parts, no N900 |
| 18:30.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | the N900 option is for customers doing a DIY swap |
| 18:30.17 | rax | You need your own bodies. The problem is the startup cost of that, I imagine. |
| 18:30.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 18:30.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | it starts with palstic case, and keymat. then comes digitizer, then LCD |
| 18:30.54 | rax | How much of the cost is built into the N900 cases? Does that include the display? |
| 18:31.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | we hope to get complete set of spare parts (incl LCD) for max 150EUR |
| 18:32.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | still work in progress, pretty much. However we need to start sourcing those spare parts RSN |
| 18:32.36 | rax | If this gets off the ground and you can get the word out to the high-end market, there is a market for this that isn't very price sensitive. |
| 18:32.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I hope for that a lot |
| 18:33.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | major companies getting a 1000++ device for each of their 1500 managers, no utopy |
| 18:34.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | even security sensitive NGOs |
| 18:34.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | political parties |
| 18:34.22 | rax | Yeah. I've had conversations with high-placed people in bank security that said "everyone I know would pay >$1000 for a device [like that]" |
| 18:34.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: I'm aware of all that |
| 18:34.43 | rax | Every executive at any $10M+ company would pay >$1000 for it. |
| 18:35.07 | rax | The trick is to sell to the people who cause the problem. :-) |
| 18:35.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I do the hw, need somebody to take care about the software and infra side |
| 18:35.28 | rax | Is the display output a frame buffer or protocol? |
| 18:35.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | fb |
| 18:35.40 | rax | What's the pixel or memory bandwidth to the display? |
| 18:35.48 | rax | Ok...frame buffer. |
| 18:35.55 | rax | Nice....any idea of the bandwidth possible? |
| 18:36.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr, the display is 800*480, with dunno max 60fps or somesuch |
| 18:36.08 | rax | Also, what's the display resolution? 800x480 or so |
| 18:36.33 | rax | That's around 100M/s. |
| 18:36.39 | rax | Not bad. |
| 18:36.49 | rax | Better than some terrible laptops. |
| 18:36.56 | rax | For the display size, it is really good. |
| 18:37.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, it's probably a 5/6/5 RGB |
| 18:37.15 | rax | Ok, so 50M/s. |
| 18:37.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 18:37.23 | rax | Still. For that frame size, that's quite respectable. |
| 18:37.34 | rax | Do you know how much memory bandwidth the CPU has to the frame buffer? |
| 18:37.43 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we can just get estel_ to make some aluminium cases :P |
| 18:37.48 | rax | (I do graphics software and specialize in UI design.) |
| 18:37.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, full RAM bus bw, I guess |
| 18:38.20 | kerio | mh, wasn't there a HSV mode or something? |
| 18:38.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: OHYEAAAH! |
| 18:38.54 | kerio | or something like that, the reason why the empty fullscreen movies have greenish letterboxing |
| 18:39.04 | kerio | *the fullscreen movies |
| 18:39.11 | kerio | or the empty screen in fullscreen movie playing |
| 18:39.13 | rax | Can it do RGB 24-bit? |
| 18:39.19 | kerio | is so fucking good at explaining himself |
| 18:39.20 | rax | (Not that it is critical.) |
| 18:39.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | rax: OMAP video design is ... intricate. There's a GPU, a DSP, a 4 or some independant framebuffers... |
| 18:39.59 | rax | Ok. Is all of the control of the GPU open? |
| 18:40.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | rax: (24bit) iirc it could |
| 18:40.20 | rax | What do I type to do private messages? (I assume that's what I'm getting...) |
| 18:40.25 | rax | (I not IRC gud.) |
| 18:40.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | (GPU) only 2D, 3D drivers are closed source |
| 18:40.36 | kerio | rax: this is just a channel message with a highlight |
| 18:40.51 | kerio | usually most clients will do tab-completion of usernames |
| 18:40.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | /query <nickname> |
| 18:40.59 | kerio | and add some sort of suffix, if at the beginning |
| 18:41.24 | rax | Ah, ok. |
| 18:41.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | rax: however see what keriosaid about highlight of lines with own nick in them |
| 18:42.01 | kerio | private conversations on IRC are... well |
| 18:42.04 | kerio | not frowned upon |
| 18:42.07 | kerio | just useless |
| 18:42.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | but not exactly appreciated either |
| 18:42.22 | kerio | yeah |
| 18:42.30 | rax | Ok. Makes sense. I figured I was probably being an idiot. |
| 18:42.33 | kerio | especially if it's something that might also benefit someone else |
| 18:44.09 | rax | I haven't been on IRC in YEARS. |
| 18:44.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | aluminium case is funny but useless. No RF will come out of it |
| 18:44.15 | rax | hahaha |
| 18:44.29 | rax | Make it out of beryllium. That won't get you noticed or anything. |
| 18:44.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | diamond |
| 18:45.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders if diamond is shielding RF |
| 18:45.22 | rax | Speaking of cases, the conversations I had with people who were very interested in security were about a hypothetical device that could be large and clunky. They aren't very concerned with that. |
| 18:45.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | graphene does |
| 18:45.29 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hey, the iphone 6 is made of aluminium |
| 18:45.31 | rax | They want security. They're going to have a normal phone for normal stuff. |
| 18:46.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yeah, and iPhone5 had the "you hold it wrong" prank |
| 18:46.11 | kerio | hey |
| 18:46.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the antenna been integrated into the aluminium frame |
| 18:46.21 | kerio | if i hold the n900 wrong when i'm at my holiday house, i get no reception |
| 18:46.26 | rax | If you really want to get paranoid about the attack vectors, put the CPU board in an isolated copper mesh - faraday it. |
| 18:46.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, cast in lead |
| 18:47.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | or steel |
| 18:47.14 | rax | But that only helps if the CPU itself can be triggered, which is highly unlikely. |
| 18:47.23 | kerio | what happens if you have a conductor that goes through a faraday cage? |
| 18:47.31 | rax | It is an antenna. |
| 18:47.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry! to recharge you need to flex away the small end |
| 18:48.04 | kerio | like |
| 18:48.08 | kerio | a laptop inside a faraday cage |
| 18:48.15 | kerio | with an ethernet cable that goes through the cable |
| 18:48.21 | kerio | *through the cage |
| 18:48.37 | kerio | would it actually work? |
| 18:48.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | lightning will kill your PC |
| 18:48.43 | kerio | D: |
| 18:48.50 | kerio | ok what about a real answer now |
| 18:48.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | that been a real answer |
| 18:49.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | a cable is a leak# |
| 18:49.11 | kerio | but it's surrounded by plastic n shit |
| 18:49.13 | rax | You can power the PC on the inside of the cage with a non-conducting mechanical power transfer of some sort, like a shaft with an alternator. |
| 18:49.39 | rax | Designing isolation spaces isn't trivial. |
| 18:49.39 | kerio | (the ethernet cable) |
| 18:49.45 | rax | Optical. |
| 18:50.05 | rax | But as soon as you have ethernet, you have an ethernet controller and that gets sticky. USB 2 and below are good because they're isolated from the CPU. |
| 18:50.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | optical is a leak only for *very* short wave electromagnetic waves, yes |
| 18:50.29 | rax | Like, like leaks in the terabit range, which shouldn't be a problem. :-) |
| 18:51.25 | rax | If you really want to go hog-wild, you can build a nested faraday cage with an anechoic DMZ complete with high amplitude noise. :-) |
| 18:51.40 | rax | Of course, then you get on short lists again. :-) |
| 18:51.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it seems we're getting slightly off topic now. We're not building the pentagon conference room |
| 18:51.53 | rax | True. |
| 18:51.55 | rax | I digress. |
| 18:52.53 | rax | Here's a legitimate question (maybe.) |
| 18:53.07 | rax | The display controller...does it have a single display output and can it drive larger displays? |
| 18:53.30 | rax | I know this is out there...I'm thinking of whether or not it is practical (possible) to attach larger displays to the device. |
| 18:53.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | rax: consider your mail as answered ;-) |
| 19:03.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, afk, busy |
| 19:03.17 | rax | It seems like there should be a high-priced market for what you're doing. |
| 19:03.20 | rax | kk |
| 19:14.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | dong Neo900 for the linux hackers and maemo lovers now, basically exploiting my own work. Later on a special edition (possibly with different housing) for the security market, accompanied by a carefully tailored-to-meet-requirements OS and infra provided on secure servers |
| 19:14.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | this will cost premium |
| 19:14.41 | rax | Ok, that sounds good. |
| 19:15.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | blackphone, a hoax |
| 19:15.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 19:15.31 | rax | Basically. |
| 19:15.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | sandboxing? why? don't need that ;-P |
| 19:15.53 | rax | They're just taking advantage of a market without deep solutions to the scariest problems. |
| 19:17.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 19:17.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | blackphone based on crappy standard android phone architecture, vulnerable just like any samsung |
| 19:18.20 | rax | Yeah. You may have noticed that I'm not very impressed with linux security. It is too large to audit and based on programming practices that are too difficult to secure. |
| 19:18.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't base a secure OS on a crappy vulnerable hardware |
| 19:18.34 | rax | Not that I think linux is a bad thing - it isn't. It is just a beast. |
| 19:18.55 | rax | Exactly. Without hardware, you have nothing. Once you get that, you need secure software that you can trust. |
| 19:19.11 | rax | Linux is close. I'm just uber strict because I can be in my situation. |
| 19:20.04 | kerio | openbsd :3 |
| 19:20.41 | rax | Multix. :-) |
| 19:38.45 | *** join/#neo900 xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 19:49.48 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: windows machines are vulnerable too :-) http://imgur.com/cTD5b5D |
| 19:50.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | those who are moderately concerned about vulnerabilities in their phone, but have no clear idea of the basic design and concepts, still hope for full audit of all baseband, so they could "certify" there's no pending threat from baseband sharing memory with APE CPU. This is a pipe dream, since a) will never happen since baseband doesn't get disclosed, and b) it's simply impossible to security-audit a software of that complexity, even when |
| 19:50.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | you had access to full sourcecode |
| 19:52.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: niiiice ;-P |
| 19:59.13 | Pali | http://www.heise.de/security/news/foren/S-Was-ist-eigentlich-mit-Windows/forum-286128/msg-25869241/read/ |
| 20:01.42 | *** join/#neo900 DougLashz (~dal@gateway/tor-sasl/douglashz) |
| 20:02.11 | DougLashz | Do donations help donors reserve devices? |
| 20:04.47 | rax | Yes. DocScrutinizer - I have just donated 1000 EU. |
| 20:05.37 | rax | Doc - how do you feel about others producing compatible devices? |
| 20:06.21 | rax | Doug - yes, DocScrutinizer has told me that donating 100 EU or more puts you on the list of people who get credit toward a device. |
| 20:07.00 | DougLashz | Cool, I would like to donate next month :) |
| 20:07.06 | DougLashz | as in Oct |
| 20:08.20 | rax | As you can see, I've just done that. :-) |
| 20:08.29 | rax | This project appears to be well worth getting behind. |
| 20:08.58 | DougLashz | Definitely looks like it |
| 20:10.17 | rax | Of course, as stated on the neo900.org site, there are no guarantees. |
| 20:10.24 | rax | But hey... :-) |
| 20:10.37 | DougLashz | yeah |
| 20:10.49 | rax | At least someone is trying to make a securable computing device. |
| 20:10.58 | DougLashz | yeah :) |
| 20:12.16 | rax | This thing has TV out? I see Mic/TV (TS5A22366) with TVOUT... (Darn...must read data sheet.) |
| 20:25.52 | rax | It'll be interesting to see if the TVOUT can be a separate frame buffer than the LCD. |
| 20:31.31 | kerio | rax: it can |
| 20:31.38 | kerio | builtin function |
| 20:31.48 | rax | Oh my. That's evoking loving emotions. |
| 20:31.51 | kerio | when playing a video, you get the video on the tv and the overlay n shit on the n900 screen |
| 20:32.10 | kerio | well, that's true for the n900 |
| 20:32.13 | rax | That makes it much easier to use the device as a desktop device when 'docked.' |
| 20:32.16 | kerio | not sure if the neo900 does the same |
| 20:32.20 | kerio | and ha ha ha hell no |
| 20:32.26 | rax | Is it the same family of CPU? |
| 20:32.31 | kerio | 640x480 at best |
| 20:32.37 | kerio | composite video |
| 20:32.53 | rax | I come from the days when that wasn't half bad. :-) |
| 20:36.41 | kerio | it's definetely an improvement over an abacus |
| 20:36.47 | kerio | but it's not good enough for a modern desktop usage |
| 20:37.07 | rax | It actually has it's uses for presentations and video conferencing. |
| 20:37.27 | kerio | yeah, i guess so |
| 20:37.29 | rax | I'd prefer HD 1080p, but hey, I'll sacrifice that for security. |
| 20:37.32 | kerio | images and big text |
| 20:37.44 | *** join/#neo900 norly (~norly@enpas.org) |
| 20:41.49 | rax | Yes, or nicely antialiased smaller text. :-) |
| 20:44.13 | kerio | composite cable |
| 20:44.26 | rax | Yeah. Smeary. |
| 20:44.26 | kerio | it's less antialias and more blur |
| 20:44.33 | kerio | yeah not even blur |
| 20:46.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | (<kerio> not sure if the neo900 does the same) of course it does exactly same. Plus VGA output still not being off the table, though this is only possible - due to SOC limitations - mutually exclusively to LCD display |
| 20:47.11 | rax | Ok, so TVOUT is an option but disables the LCD? |
| 20:47.20 | kerio | no no, tvout won't disable the lcd |
| 20:47.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | (<rax> Is it the same family of CPU?) yes, N900 has OMAP3530, we use DM3730 |
| 20:47.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | VGA will |
| 20:47.57 | rax | I'm looking at the data sheet for the DM3730, but there's a lot to dig through to figure out what it is actually doing. |
| 20:48.02 | rax | Ah, ok. |
| 20:48.08 | kerio | still worth it |
| 20:48.12 | rax | VGA isn't terrible - straight VGA or SVGA? |
| 20:48.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | in case you use a resolution different to what LCD supports |
| 20:48.24 | kerio | oh, otherwise you can do mirroring? |
| 20:49.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, why shouldn't have VGA the LCD signal same resolution and framerate? no problem |
| 20:49.25 | kerio | your phrasing strange very |
| 20:49.36 | kerio | anyway, 800x480 is such a weird resolution |
| 20:50.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | but the video interface we connect to LCD is the only high bandwidth video interface on OMAP3. So we either use it for 800*480 5/6/5, or we use it for whatever OMAP can do (1024*768?) and LCD goes mad or gets shut down during that |
| 20:50.39 | rax | It is actually 16:10, so it isn't all that weird. :-) |
| 20:51.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | you still can use TVOUT and VGA on separate framebuffers ;-) |
| 20:52.03 | rax | Is there a good reason to use 5/6/5 if the device is capable of 24bpp or 32bpp? |
| 20:52.14 | rax | (Doc: Excellent re: separate frame buffers and VGA.) |
| 20:52.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think the display is only capable of 5/6/5 but I'm not sure at all about it |
| 20:52.38 | rax | (Doc: Will the device have VGA outputs that aren't just the Mic/TV out?) |
| 20:52.48 | rax | Ah, ok. The display needs it. |
| 20:55.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | we have a AV connector aka headset jack that provides common usual CVBS aka composite video output, either PAL or NTSC |
| 20:55.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | we evaluate our options to place a micro-connector somewhere to offer VGA |
| 20:55.48 | rax | Excellent. :_) |
| 20:55.50 | rax | :-) |
| 20:55.59 | kerio | stylus slot! |
| 20:56.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | The former is mandatory, to be feature complete with N900, the latter is an opportunity we evaluate, not finalized yet |
| 20:57.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | might become HDMI or displayport or whatever, as well. Nothing set in stone yet |
| 20:57.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe we cannot do it at all |
| 20:57.14 | rax | Yeah. |
| 20:57.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | we'll see |
| 20:57.30 | rax | It isn't critical at this point. Future devices can have different displays and display output options. |
| 20:58.11 | rax | uHDMI would be SWEET. |
| 20:59.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, of course. Future devices may have OMAP5, or some completely new SOC (though I don't know of any valid alternative yet. Dang chip industry!) |
| 21:00.08 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: quad-core i7 |
| 21:00.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | OMAP5 iirc has THREE vide interfaces, one of them being HDMI |
| 21:00.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | OMAP3 has 2, one of them being composite video |
| 21:01.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | rax: thanks for donation! :-) |
| 21:01.28 | rax | Ok. That makes more sense. |
| 21:02.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | once Pyra is available, we easily can test our OS on that one, and if they work, we can base next phone on OMAP5 |
| 21:04.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | (sidenote: Pyra is kind of "sister project" to Neo900. They inherited quite some stuff from us, and we will benefit from GDC's experience with NEW OAMP SOC in Pyra |
| 21:04.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ) |
| 21:04.13 | rax | There should be a market for a slightly larger device that acts as both a secure communications device and a low-end notepad for presentations and videoconferencing. |
| 21:04.35 | rax | (And other things, like black-box VPN.) |
| 21:04.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | that would be the next generation NeoX00 then |
| 21:05.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pyra still is massively gaming console centric |
| 21:06.05 | rax | Very interesting. Is there anything online about it? |
| 21:06.18 | rax | That's a really good sister project for the enthusiasts to get behind. |
| 21:06.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wouldn't want to use it as PDA or phone, even if it was able to establish phonecalls - which it most likely won't be |
| 21:06.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~pyra |
| 21:06.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm |
| 21:07.09 | rax | You can also tunnel point-to-point 'calls' through wifi. |
| 21:07.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.dragonbox-pyra.com/ |
| 21:07.34 | rax | Of course, I'm talking about applications where the participants really want to know they're secure. |
| 21:07.41 | rax | They're willing to do 'non-normal' things to get it. |
| 21:07.46 | rax | Yeah, I'm reading that site now. |
| 21:07.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~pyra is http://www.dragonbox-pyra.com/ |
| 21:07.57 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 21:08.29 | kerio | rax: can't you just use skype for that? :P |
| 21:08.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.dragonbox-pyra.com/specs.html |
| 21:10.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((inherited)) e.g. >>It can also do a fake multi-touch so you can use it for gestures like pinch-to-zoom or rotate.<< |
| 21:11.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | if it been not obvious from my above blabbering: Pyra and Neo900 are both developed by Nik/GDC |
| 21:11.42 | rax | Right. |
| 21:13.21 | DougLashz | DocScrutinizer05: So does a 100 Euro donation earn me credit toward a possible phone? :) |
| 21:13.30 | DougLashz | DocSrutinizer05: Is there anything I need to know about donating before donating? |
| 21:13.51 | DougLashz | DocScrutinizer05: I read the donation stuff on the website but it seemed possibly out of date |
| 21:14.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | DougLashz: yes, for a board. For the case Neo900 case parts we soon need to start true preordering with separate payment |
| 21:15.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course we also highly appreciate "donations" of >>100EUR |
| 21:15.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | but 100 already makes sure we will build a NeoN board with your name on it (unless a meteorite hits my house) |
| 21:15.51 | rax | The device will cost more than 100 EU... By giving more than 100 EU, you increase the odds that it will actually happen and also aren't losing anything in the long run (assuming they get produced.) |
| 21:16.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes :-) |
| 21:16.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | you actually get an amazing 2% interest per *month* on your donation amount |
| 21:16.49 | rax | So you only lose on nominal inflation! ;-) |
| 21:17.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | is <2% recently in Germany, afaik |
| 21:17.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | per anno |
| 21:17.39 | DougLashz | Haha okay cool :) |
| 21:17.55 | rax | Ah, sorry - 2% MONTHLY return. Big difference. |
| 21:18.02 | DougLashz | I will donate a little bit over 100 euros next time a client decides to get around to paying an invoice, which should/must be soon |
| 21:18.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're not drowning in funds, so higher donations are highly welcome |
| 21:18.32 | DougLashz | yes, that's why I'll donate over 100 euros |
| 21:18.45 | DougLashz | just not sure what I can do right now |
| 21:18.53 | rax | That's why I donated 1000. I'll likely end up with several of these. |
| 21:18.55 | DougLashz | I want to help :) |
| 21:19.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks! :-D |
| 21:20.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | for a ballpark figure: recently ongoing prot_V2 development and production costs Neo900 UG roundabout 25kEUR |
| 21:21.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | might get cheaper when things pan out unexpectedly fine |
| 21:22.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g. last week Nik reported that he didn't use up the quoted amount of working hours we assumed for schematics finalization, yet the schematics are almost done. |
| 21:23.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | let's see what this week brings us |
| 21:23.34 | rax | :-) |
| 21:23.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope for publishing a draft of proto_V2 schematics |
| 21:23.58 | rax | Doc - you're the software guy, right? Nik is the EE? |
| 21:24.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, I'm the product manager, genuine EE . Nik is running a hardware house, and doing EE and sw |
| 21:24.51 | rax | Ok. |
| 21:25.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | if anybody is our sw guy then that's clearly werner almesberger aka wpwrak |
| 21:25.24 | rax | Ok. Just curious. |
| 21:25.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | certified linux kernel hacker |
| 21:25.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | even has a wiki page ;-) |
| 21:25.39 | rax | I'm a software guy; always interested in knowing hardware guys because I can't do what you guys do. |
| 21:26.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Almesberger |
| 21:29.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically we're all parts of the old OpenMoko team and affiliates |
| 21:34.11 | rax | Right. Is the uSD a MicroSDXC interface? |
| 21:34.33 | rax | Or MicroSDHC? |
| 21:36.17 | *** join/#neo900 kolp_ (~quassel@55d40159.access.ecotel.net) |
| 22:15.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | HC, OMAP3 controller doesn't support XC |
| 22:18.20 | rax | kk |
| 22:48.02 | Oksana | What is xprot-ambient-temp ? :) Unless a meteorite hits your house :) |
| 23:07.15 | freemangordon | WTF is wrong with this guys ?!? |
| 23:07.28 | Oksana | ? |
| 23:07.42 | freemangordon | doc knows :) |
| 23:07.55 | freemangordon | Oksana: sorry, you don't want to know |
| 23:08.50 | freemangordon | oh, re your question... |
| 23:09.09 | freemangordon | I didn't dig into it, I can only guess |
| 23:09.44 | freemangordon | that xprot is either lowering the speakers volume with temp getting high.. |
| 23:10.09 | freemangordon | or there is a threshold |
| 23:10.32 | freemangordon | after which speakers are turned off |
| 23:11.01 | Oksana | Interesting... Thank you! |
| 23:11.32 | freemangordon | Oksana: any PA knowledge on your side? |
| 23:11.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey freemangordon! :-) |
| 23:12.02 | FIQ | hm |
| 23:12.02 | freemangordon | because I am a dumb guy when it comes to PA and alsa |
| 23:12.12 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: hi! |
| 23:12.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I dunno what's wrong with those guys. Probably woody's mental disorder is congestious |
| 23:12.52 | freemangordon | I can;t belive that, woody was a very reasonable guy :( |
| 23:12.57 | FIQ | so this guy in repair shop fixes lcd on n900 for me for $30 and said he might be able to fix the USB for a small additional cost (+$20) |
| 23:13.03 | FIQ | that would be convenient |
| 23:13.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, until some 9orso months ago |
| 23:13.30 | FIQ | getting n900 fully working (besides BT) for $50 is nice |
| 23:14.20 | freemangordon | honestly, I can't believe it, I still remember when we argued with "meego guys" that in 2 years there will be no meego, but maemo will be alive and kicking still :( |
| 23:14.43 | FIQ | well, and speakers, but I literally never used them |
| 23:14.44 | freemangordon | me and woody that is |
| 23:14.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I can help out a tiny bit with ALSA, nfc about PolypAudio |
| 23:14.50 | FIQ | hence why I never bothered fixing them |
| 23:14.51 | FIQ | Oh well |
| 23:15.06 | FIQ | like, it took me a week |
| 23:15.15 | FIQ | until I realized they were broken in first place |
| 23:15.15 | freemangordon | FIQ: take your chances and have your n900 repaired at no cost :) |
| 23:15.16 | FIQ | lol |
| 23:15.37 | FIQ | freemangordon, what do you mean? |
| 23:15.51 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I know your opinion on PA, but as of now, we have no options |
| 23:15.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 23:16.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just say I have literally Not the Faintest Clue |
| 23:16.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | all I faintly know of PA is the borked ALSA compatibility layer |
| 23:16.55 | FIQ | freemangordon, well |
| 23:17.01 | freemangordon | FIQ: the amount you shared seems as a low cost for a repair, thus " take your chances" |
| 23:17.04 | FIQ | maemo is a shell of its former glory |
| 23:17.12 | FIQ | but it didn't end up as bad as meego lol |
| 23:17.17 | FIQ | which is literally dead |
| 23:17.27 | FIQ | freemangordon, ah, fair enough |
| 23:17.37 | FIQ | well to be honest I forgot about my speakers :P |
| 23:17.42 | FIQ | would have asked otherwise |
| 23:17.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: speakers are easy to swap |
| 23:18.00 | FIQ | and I never cared about bt, never ever used it in my 4 years of owning it |
| 23:18.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: no soldering |
| 23:18.27 | FIQ | yeah I heard it was trivial to fix |
| 23:18.33 | FIQ | you need replacement parts though |
| 23:18.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, not that hard to get |
| 23:18.47 | FIQ | ok |
| 23:18.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems they are used in other Nokia phones as well |
| 23:19.08 | FIQ | he didn't have the lcd part either but he had no issues buying a replacement part |
| 23:19.17 | FIQ | so I guess it would be easy |
| 23:19.19 | FIQ | for him to fix |
| 23:19.22 | FIQ | if I brought it up |
| 23:19.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | glances at that bag with 4 spare speaker transducers |
| 23:20.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | guess I ordered them at ownta back when |
| 23:22.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | we are using similar ones but with a lower(?) Ohms-value on Neo900 |
| 23:22.45 | FIQ | ok |
| 23:24.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | a quick googling only shown me earpiece transducers ("speaker") that fit to N900 and several other Nokia phones. Seems the original speakers IHF are not that easy to source |
| 23:24.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: you now guess it why I'm not on #maemo* channels anymore since weeks? |
| 23:26.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't matter, we don't need the maemo.org servers and we don't need the HiFo or the MCeV or whatever |
| 23:27.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | what we need is doing a proper backup of all repos, tmo, wiki, for the time when even wardare can't keep stuff running anymore thanks to too many fools rushing over it |
| 23:27.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | warfare* |
| 23:33.06 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: It shouldn't be like that, youknow |
| 23:33.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: those guys act like rabid dogs because they know THEY messed it up, and the only way the see for fixing it is bashing council into ignoring own rules and surrender to their new brave world governed(SIC!) by a GA and a 3-members-BoD appointing that GA |
| 23:34.45 | freemangordon | don't believe that. I am sure they do it 'cause they think it will be better. and you (and it seems me) are stopping them :) |
| 23:36.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I know it shouldn't be like this. But when a 500 fighters with kalaschnikov raid a town of 60000 and those 60000 are all either in holiday or don't bother to even open their window and shout at those fighters, what could the administration do? |
| 23:36.21 | freemangordon | however, I won; argue with their highnesses anymore, lets see how it will turn out, I'll concider if i will continue my participation once it is clear what is going on |
| 23:37.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | what we see is pretty much a takeover like in Donezk |
| 23:38.39 | freemangordon | it just makes no sense to me to waste time in conversations like that http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1441058&postcount=60 |
| 23:38.53 | freemangordon | should I really care? |
| 23:39.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | on the bright side there's little left over for those guys to ruin. |
| 23:39.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I gave up |
| 23:40.25 | freemangordon | well, you are some kind rough on the edges, i thought that maybe i can start some productive talk. I must admit I was wrong |
| 23:42.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I became rough at the edges since i'm suffering this sort of fighting since roundabout 9 months now |
| 23:42.34 | freemangordon | anyway :) |
| 23:42.46 | freemangordon | (I meant my own experience) |
| 23:42.56 | freemangordon | you know - thumb, SR, etc |
| 23:44.00 | *** join/#neo900 wicket64 (~wicket@gateway/tor-sasl/wicket64) |
| 23:44.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I tried to build a bridge for them, in http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1440932#post1440932 >>Generally nothing would be wrong with MCeV<< - they ignore it |
| 23:45.30 | freemangordon | well, you are "the enemy", I don;t balieve anyone from the "right guys" will try to grok whatever you say, right now |
| 23:45.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | (thumb, SR) I just tried to make clear we need proper evaluation for it. Never been against it, though you probably sometimes thought I was. |
| 23:45.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 23:45.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | futile |
| 23:46.22 | freemangordon | naah, I know I am better than you, so i've just tried to convince you that you are wrong :P (thumb, sr) |
| 23:46.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 23:47.03 | freemangordon | the point is that i've never taken it personally |
| 23:47.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 23:47.24 | freemangordon | even the "you're idiot" from your side |
| 23:47.32 | freemangordon | thus I wonder... |
| 23:47.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry for that :-/ |
| 23:47.38 | xes | :) |
| 23:47.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi xes!! |
| 23:48.08 | xes | hi DocScrutinizer05 , hi freemangordon :) |
| 23:48.12 | freemangordon | for sure I am not, and ther is no a random guy over the IRC who can judge it :D |
| 23:48.17 | freemangordon | hi xes! |
| 23:48.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's life with our most kind sysop ever? |
| 23:49.31 | xes | i would suggest you a two weeks of fixes&updates over bash/apache/xen and you would avoid everything that would become "personal" |
| 23:50.12 | freemangordon | xes: wanna re nm-nav-provider? I will fix and upgrade whatever you tell me :) |
| 23:50.26 | freemangordon | in the meanwhile :P |
| 23:50.48 | xes | no thanks.. |
| 23:50.56 | freemangordon | I knew it |
| 23:51.44 | freemangordon | oh, BTW, if i missed to announce: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/nokiamaps-navigation-provider/source/5142e28be6e3c61ae962ca282c94890c33a3f7be: |
| 23:52.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: do you think we might provide a special edition RTL-SDR rady to plug in to Neo900 hackerbus? |
| 23:52.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ready* |
| 23:52.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe s/might/should/ |
| 23:52.44 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: wait, isn't that specie USB? |
| 23:52.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, has USB |
| 23:53.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | just no USB jack |
| 23:53.15 | freemangordon | why a "special edition" than? |
| 23:53.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | one without USB jack and without housing, and maybe special antenna whip? |
| 23:53.50 | freemangordon | ah, I see |
| 23:53.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/jack/plug/ |
| 23:54.25 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: since it's external it would be enough a stable usb port with enough current |
| 23:54.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think we could buy a 25 of those dongles and manually rework them |
| 23:55.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: sure, that works 100%, no doubt. I thought about some "integrated" solution that wouldn't need to plug a lengthy dongle to the USB external port |
| 23:55.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | raher have it internal under mugen cover |
| 23:56.21 | *** join/#neo900 jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-80-219.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:56.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((enough current)) the charger chip we currently plan to use can provide a bombing 1000mA VBUS |
| 23:56.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 23:57.10 | xes | integrated inside would be very interesting, but you have to plan a proper shield and antenna path |
| 23:57.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, good point |
| 23:58.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | antenna I thought of actually having a 5cm whip with a small antenna connector at end of it |
| 23:58.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | or have a pogopin contacting to a telescope antenna you slide into stylus-bay? ;-) |
| 23:59.12 | xes | probably this one is the smallest available: http://goughlui.com/2013/07/07/adsb-range-testing-with-the-rtl2832ur820t-tuner/ |
| 23:59.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ta! |
