| 00:00.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | who would really want to use fakeroot on target? (yes, I *know* there are valid usecases for even _that_, but it's rather exotic) |
| 00:00.48 | jonwil | I mean the bits of fakeroot that live in the SDK target folder |
| 00:00.54 | jonwil | rather than in the scratchbox bits |
| 00:00.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 00:01.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | targets on SB not in sync? that's nasty# |
| 00:03.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooooo... Kay! >> I've made my final donation of 58 euros which makes my cummulative donation total 101.02 euros. As you described, this should qualify me for the purchase of one device.<< |
| 00:05.23 | Oksana | Okay. |
| 00:05.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels too lazy to check if he offered that to the guy who sent that donation. Let's rather invest the effort into fixing our accounting to make one donation out of that half a dozen. Next one doing this will receive a PP refund |
| 00:06.20 | Oksana | :) Is he going to pay the remaining price of the device in similar chunks, when it comes to paying for the devices? |
| 00:06.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | he won't be able to do so |
| 00:07.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | I start to reject all PP payments that don't match the expected amount, from now on |
| 00:08.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also will refuse to calculate partial interest for partial payments on partial periods of time |
| 00:21.21 | jonwil | going to use exactly the versions of scratchbox-* that my old gentoo dev box was running, that should in theory work |
| 00:21.35 | jonwil | at least I hope so |
| 00:21.49 | jonwil | anyhow I am sure I will get this working again |
| 00:23.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | good :-) |
| 00:24.02 | jonwil | for future reference, note that installing the Harmattan SDK following the instructions for doing so seems to break the Fremantle SDK |
| 00:24.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | glares at the 380W programmable PSU and considers charging 25 batteries in parallel with it |
| 00:25.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | they're all at 0Volt, so should be safe for that regard at least ;-) |
| 00:26.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ramp up CC from 2 to 10A during 30 min, set CV to 4.1Volt |
| 00:28.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | would love to already have the tricorder mugen-TOH for Neo900 (and Neo900 of course), with built-in FLIR, So checking temperature of those 25 batts would be a joy |
| 00:32.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Idly wondering if you could improve the virtual resolution of a e.g. 8x8 FLIR sensor, by checking changes in sensed value for each sensor square while moving the sensor view by 1/8 in X direction and then in Y direction. Of course needs accurate feedback of the movement, which is easy to accomplish by adding in the picture from normal video cam |
| 00:35.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | to elaborate: consider you got a tiny hot spot sitting in center of square 2,2. Moving the tricorder will not change readout of square 2,2 nor 3,2 or 1,2 (or 2,1 or 2,3) until that hot tiny spot crosses the border to one of the adjacent fields |
| 00:36.34 | ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05, http://www.flir.com/flirone/ |
| 00:37.51 | ShadowJK | The actual thermal resolution is pretty shitty (but very inexpensive), but thanks to combining visual and thermal you get a picture that looks kinda awesome |
| 00:38.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | GRRR damn! |
| 00:38.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | why is E.V.E.R.Y idea I got already out there? |
| 00:38.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 00:38.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: thanks a lot! :-) |
| 00:39.00 | ShadowJK | To be fair, there were a dozen kickstarters doing this exact same thing, before flir brought out the first "comercial" |
| 00:39.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | didn't know |
| 00:39.26 | ShadowJK | ("this thing" being cellphone-attached thermal cameras) |
| 00:44.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, 260GBP too |
| 00:45.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think the 8x8 FLIR sensor is ~50bucks |
| 00:45.35 | ShadowJK | Commonly available 8x1 sensors are around 80 bucks, iirc |
| 00:46.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, my tricorder TOH will not be a give-away, but it will be around same price league like the FLIR One and be much smarter |
| 00:46.50 | ShadowJK | There's an Xprize for tricorder ;-) |
| 00:47.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | Xprize? |
| 00:47.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | if only I had bookmarked that 8x8 sensor chip |
| 00:48.12 | ShadowJK | "The Qualcomm Tricorder X PRIZE is an inducement prize contest, offering a US$7 million Grand Prize, US$2 million Second Prize, and US$1 million Third Prize to the best among the finalists offering an automatic non-invasive health diagnostics packaged into a single portable device that weighs no more than 5 pounds (2.3 kg), able to diagnose over a dozen medical conditions, including whooping cough, hypertension, mononucleosis, shingles, melanoma, HIV, and ost |
| 00:48.19 | ShadowJK | eoporosis." |
| 00:49.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | suuuuure, melanoma, and wtf is mononuklewahtever? |
| 00:50.11 | ShadowJK | kissing transmitted |
| 00:50.13 | jonwil | is anyone here running the Fremantle SDK on a debian/ubuntu/etc system (either VM or otherwise)? |
| 00:50.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ridiculous |
| 00:50.31 | jonwil | i.e. something apt-get based |
| 00:50.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, not me |
| 00:50.40 | jonwil | ok |
| 00:50.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly better ask in #maemo-ssu |
| 00:51.00 | ShadowJK | The first X Prize was "first privately funded organization to launch a spacecraft with 3 passengers to a altitude of 100km, twice within 2 weeks" |
| 00:51.03 | ShadowJK | or something like that |
| 00:51.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | that sounds like a walkin the park compared to THAT |
| 00:51.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | literally |
| 00:52.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, 2.3kg isn't our league anyway |
| 00:52.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | detecting HIV, non-invasive. SUUUURE |
| 00:52.54 | ShadowJK | There's also the Google Lunar Lander X-Prize challenge |
| 00:52.57 | ShadowJK | you can guess what that involved ;p |
| 00:53.01 | ShadowJK | involves* |
| 00:53.16 | ShadowJK | "On March 20 2014, an A.I. XPRIZE was announced. The aim is to use artificial intelligence to deliver a TED talk so captivating, that the audience gives a standing ovation" |
| 00:53.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | puzzling |
| 00:54.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway my Neo900 tricorder won't be the medical variant Mr McCoy is using. It's more the standard scientific one |
| 00:54.56 | ShadowJK | The spacecraft to 100km was won by scaled composites, who were immediately bought up by richard branson and renamed Virgin Galactic, they're currently selling tickets for spaceflights on the next, bigger version ;p |
| 00:55.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, only 500k bucks for a 15 minutes ride |
| 00:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | or whatever |
| 00:56.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd rather consider that a scam |
| 00:57.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | a ride in the vomit bomber is way cheaper and gives you about same nausea ;-) |
| 00:58.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.planet-wissen.de/sendungen/2012/06/videos/04_video_parabelflug.jsp |
| 01:06.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, only 250k bucks |
| 01:06.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.virgingalactic.com/booking/ |
| 01:07.17 | jonwil | They used the zero-g aircraft to film parts of the film Apollo 13 |
| 01:22.12 | jonwil | hmmm, even http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_using_Text-based_Installer points you at the Hathor (aka |
| 01:22.15 | jonwil | aka SB2 |
| 01:22.17 | jonwil | release |
| 01:23.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | mhm |
| 01:24.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | is there a problem with hathor? |
| 01:24.24 | jonwil | yes the fakeroot thing |
| 01:24.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah |
| 01:24.32 | jonwil | fakeroot not working inside FREMANTLE_ARMEL target |
| 01:24.43 | jonwil | since all that points to hathor there is probably a way to fix fakeroot |
| 01:25.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, aiui ARMEL target would already run inside a fakeroot. Dunno why you'd need a fakeroot inside a fakeroot |
| 01:26.11 | jonwil | no it doesn't, one usually needs to do dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot to make it work |
| 01:26.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | but i might be completely wrong, Touched that SB stuff last time maybe 3 years ago |
| 01:26.20 | jonwil | or thats what I have had to do in the past |
| 01:31.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | (FLIR) played with a stand alone FLIR cam 2 days ago, and what worried me a bit been the adjustment "reflectivity: 90%|75%|50%|25%|10%" and the redings for temperature of that LED-fake-FL on the ceiling changed from 39°C to 70°C while adjusting that setting |
| 01:32.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | readings* |
| 01:33.52 | ShadowJK | Well |
| 01:34.00 | ShadowJK | It's a fundamental physics thing |
| 01:34.25 | ShadowJK | Different kind of material will radiate IR with different intensity |
| 01:34.49 | ShadowJK | A polished stainless steel plate will appear to be a mirror in both visible light, and in thermal IR |
| 01:38.50 | ShadowJK | (which implies you can't measure the temperature of that plate with a thermal camera, or any other IR thermometer) |
| 01:54.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup. got that |
| 01:55.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | wondering if we could augment the FLIR principle with a IR laser scaner detecting reflectivity of all visible objects |
| 01:56.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe simply a (near-)IR camera and an IR-LED flashlight |
| 01:56.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | would need distance to object as additional parameter to the equation though |
| 01:57.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | since my tricorder has a laser distance meter anyway, that might work dual use to same time detect refelctivity of the object in center focus |
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| 01:59.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course that still fails for true mirror-alike reflective surfaces |
| 02:01.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | but should work for the usual "white" versus "dark" surface differences |
| 02:03.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | re medical tricorder, we should get that videocam skin color based pulse detector :-) |
| 02:03.16 | ShadowJK | I saw a flir standalone camera with laser targeting and focus |
| 02:04.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | which seems to indicate that my idea can't be that bad. It's already existing ;-) |
| 02:04.42 | ShadowJK | According to the salesman the purpose was focus |
| 02:04.52 | ShadowJK | So that you could look through fences and such |
| 02:05.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, well |
| 02:09.26 | jonwil | lets hope someone can tell me what I gotta do to get my fremantle sdk working again... |
| 02:10.04 | jonwil | made a forum post about it and so far the only response is someone basically saying "I dont know how to fix your problem but good luck" or whatever (if you dont have a useful answer, dont post at all...) |
| 02:23.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((IR imagers)) maybe interesting: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EdarCx09CRY/Uwe2POPNlBI/AAAAAAAAIfo/zZRKE33G0CU/s1600/IR+Imagers,+Schneider+2013.jpg found it while searching for that panasonic 8x8 |
| 02:34.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | dual touch alternative to CRTOUCH12: http://www.rohm.com/web/global/products/-/product/BU21029GUL |
| 02:35.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and http://www.rohm.com/web/global/products/-/product/BU21021GUL |
| 02:38.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.rohm.com/web/global/products/-/product/BU21024FV-M |
| 02:39.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | firmware flashable/download from APE CPU |
| 02:40.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.rohm.com/web/global/products/-/product/BU21023GUL same |
| 02:57.43 | Oksana | jonwil: See your thread again, I did some duckduckgoing based on the text of error provided by endorsemeans... |
| 02:58.51 | jonwil | I saw that and the .lua file doesn't exist on my system |
| 02:58.54 | jonwil | so that isn't the right fix |
| 02:59.11 | jonwil | the other one might work |
| 03:01.03 | jonwil | or not, mis-read what it said |
| 03:13.00 | Oksana | Does the Scratchbox come with a Readme? Where are the paths fed to it, where does it look for `libfakeroot-sysv.so' that it cannot be found? |
| 03:17.24 | jonwil | found a possible solution, looking into it now |
| 03:23.16 | jonwil | yep, that fixed it |
| 03:23.55 | jonwil | Scratchbox has an "install fakeroot" option in its configs, running that seems to have made things work again |
| 03:25.08 | Oksana | Oooh... Installing Harmattan-Box removed fakeroot from Fremantle-Box?.. |
| 03:25.12 | jonwil | seems that installing the package fakeroot-net inside the SDK overwrites whatever "install fakeroot" does and breaks things |
| 03:25.29 | jonwil | installing harmattan scratchbox updated some scratchbox packages that made fakeroot not work |
| 03:25.41 | jonwil | repairing it copied the new fakeroot stuff from the new scratchbox |
| 03:25.44 | jonwil | and made it work again |
| 03:26.55 | jonwil | now I have the build of MCE I wanted in the first place and can do the analysis on it that I wanted to do :) |
| 04:15.24 | Oksana | Quiet... |
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| 04:49.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | well.. |
| 04:51.25 | Oksana | ?:) |
| 04:51.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I checked BU21021GUL and BU21029GUL and tried to find a source. But Tohm says there's none, inquiry at manuf is required. MOQ3000 |
| 04:52.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | 21 is smarter than CRTOUCH, 29 is a tad more basic than CRTOUCH |
| 04:53.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | then 29 is only 2*2mm, while crtouch is 5*5 iirc |
| 04:53.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | but if anything, I favor the 21 |
| 04:58.42 | Oksana | 21 is also 2*2 mm? |
| 04:59.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno, haven't checked |
| 04:59.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly a tad larger since it's 5*5 BGA, not 4*4 |
| 04:59.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
| 04:59.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | err wait |
| 04:59.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
| 05:02.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | err yup, both have same case |
| 05:04.37 | Oksana | Well, inquire at manufacturer ? |
| 05:07.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | MOQ3000 |
| 05:08.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | roundabout 2000 too many |
| 05:09.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | could still make sense when chip is 1/3 the price of CRTOUCH |
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| 06:24.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/AMG8831/255-3509-1-ND/3461616 |
| 06:28.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | <http://eewiki.net/display/projects/Panasonic GridEYE Breakout Board and GUI> |
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| 08:18.36 | jonwil | freemangordon: ping |
| 08:39.27 | Pali | did you hear about systemd-office? no? next poettering project: https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/posts/VUzeRLf5g5m |
| 08:39.46 | Pali | now I do not know if it is joke or not |
| 09:05.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't dare reading it, but when you don't know if it's a joke, then it's for sure none. Everything looked like a joke so far |
| 09:07.49 | enyc | but but but but what about uselessd ?!!? |
| 09:15.37 | Pali | uselessd is useless |
| 09:18.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | sarcasm, eh? I doubt Poettering knows what's sarcasm. So maybe the "this really happened!" also was his idea of sarcasm? |
| 09:18.57 | jonwil | ok, so I have discovered 3 things. First is that Nokia DID use scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 to produce many binaries for PR1.3 (discovered this by examining all the debug packages in the SDK repos to see if thy had any indication about the used compiler). Second is that any hope of getting the same set of packages/binaries/etc Nokia used is not going to happen, there are to... |
| 09:18.58 | jonwil | ...many versions of the different packages for that to be possible. And third is that because of compiler optimization and other stuff, its never going to be possible to get binaries that are byte-for-byte identical with the Nokia-produced binaries. |
| 09:19.46 | jonwil | Even where we have source, binaries AND -dbg packages, reproducing those binaries from that source and getting identical output just isn't possible. |
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| 09:21.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, we seen differing binaries created from unaltered identical source compiled by same compiler on same machine. Prolly used RNG optimization |
| 09:21.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | (that's been with calypso firmware, on windows) |
| 09:22.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | two consecutive compiler runs on same machine even created binaries of same name but differing length IIRC |
| 09:26.14 | jonwil | its less variable with GCC ARM ELF in that passing the same input to the same matched build environment will basically always produce the same output. |
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| 09:36.41 | Pali | gcc is deterministic |
| 09:37.27 | Pali | somebody said that if you have same source files, same gcc and same libraries you could get same output binary (maybe minus some header) |
| 09:40.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | that M$ compiler/linker wasn't deterministic. Or it been depending on a lot of environment variables that themselves were not - like addr level where it got RAM mallocs |
| 09:41.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | content of such RAM when malloc'd, etc |
| 09:42.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | te binaries had funny random remnants of arbitrary other stuff in them. Parts of mail text and whatnot |
| 09:42.28 | enyc | =) |
| 09:42.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | (all disclaimer: IIRC) |
| 09:42.50 | enyc | is dos1 managing ok now, I heard dos1 was studying/busy or somesuch? |
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| 09:56.48 | jonwil | Even things like the paths where the source, libraries, headers and other things are located can impact the output in some cases |
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| 10:38.00 | enyc | jonwil: been there done all that with mail systems ;p fun with mbox files overriding and ..... all fun |
| 10:38.09 | enyc | I remember Solaris system ;p |
| 10:38.33 | enyc | /opt/gnu/bin/bash /opt/gnome-1.4/bin/ .... LD_LIBRARY_PATH= GNOME blah blah blah what fun ;p |
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| 12:35.39 | jonwil | freemangordon: ping |
| 12:40.54 | freemangordon_ | hmm? |
| 12:41.14 | freemangordon_ | ping and then disconnect? |
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| 13:04.51 | Nokiabot | ~Nokiabot |
| 13:04.53 | infobot | [nokiabot] damm sexy ! |
| 13:06.00 | Nokiabot | Some body is messing my facto |
| 13:06.22 | Nokiabot | ~Factinfo nokiabot |
| 13:06.22 | infobot | error: you do not have enough flags for that. (o required) |
| 13:06.22 | infobot | nokiabot -- created by Nokiabot <~Nokiabot@223.176.28.17> 22h 48m 45s ago; last modified 22h 45m 57s ago by Nokiabot!~Nokiabot@223.176.28.17; it has been requested 7 times, last by Nokiabot, 1m 29s ago; it has been locked by Nokiabot. |
| 13:08.59 | Nokiabot | ~unlock Nokiabot |
| 13:08.59 | infobot | Nokiabot: unlocking factoid nokiabot |
| 13:10.46 | Nokiabot | ~Infobot no nokiabot is so damm sexy ! |
| 13:10.46 | infobot | okay, Nokiabot |
| 13:11.15 | Nokiabot | ~lock nokiabot |
| 13:11.15 | infobot | Nokiabot: locking factoid nokiabot |
| 13:11.21 | *** part/#neo900 freemangordon_ (~ivo@213.222.56.174) |
| 13:11.29 | Nokiabot | ~Nokiabot |
| 13:11.29 | infobot | i heard nokiabot is so damm sexy ! |
| 13:11.48 | Nokiabot | Yeees |
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| 13:36.58 | Nokiabot | Lol systemd guys are funny :p |
| 13:38.49 | Nokiabot | I asked is systemd an app and how can i install it in my windows 8.1 laptop :p |
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| 13:53.00 | Wikiwide | What did systemd guys say? |
| 13:54.30 | Wikiwide | Good night... |
| 13:56.27 | Nokiabot | Wikiwide:one said try the app store one said ask microsoft support ph line lol |
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| 15:57.36 | Nokiabot | ~silent |
| 16:42.01 | dos1 | enyc: yup, I'm definitely more up-to-date now. and soon some new content should arrive as well ;) |
| 16:52.41 | freemangordon | Pali: how's uni going? do you still have exams to take? |
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| 16:54.03 | Pali | freemangordon: basically final exams will be in jan/feb |
| 16:54.14 | freemangordon | sounds good |
| 16:54.58 | freemangordon | I hope we'll have you back by feb. If you're still interested in fremantle ofc :P |
| 16:55.20 | freemangordon | Pali: BTW doc was offering you a dev device, in case you've missed it |
| 16:55.36 | freemangordon | n900 that is |
| 16:55.50 | Pali | yes, I know |
| 16:56.10 | freemangordon | ok |
| 17:09.22 | enyc | dos1: oooh good |
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| 17:44.53 | enyc | dos1: if content gets sorted out, I can suggest people towards who might put resources into |
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| 18:21.06 | enyc | dos1: ould be hepful to b realistic and open about current sitation andissues andrealistic expectations |
| 18:38.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | wonders what issues enyc expects to hear of |
| 18:40.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | also I wonder if it's really common best practice and wise to put any "issues" on the web frontpage |
| 18:40.39 | freemangordon | if you want to ruin the project :) |
| 18:40.44 | freemangordon | works every time |
| 18:40.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much, yes |
| 18:42.12 | enyc | issue,s i should say blockers, current problems/tasks, things where help/input / suggestions would be welcome, etc... i don't mean anything unexpected |
| 18:42.28 | freemangordon | enyc: we need SW developers |
| 18:42.38 | freemangordon | for fptf |
| 18:42.43 | freemangordon | ~fptf |
| 18:42.43 | infobot | fptf is, like, the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 |
| 18:43.11 | enyc | freemangordon: can you add this (anything else) to useful list / wiki page, link to latest article ? |
| 18:43.49 | *** join/#neo900 mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@unaffiliated/mvaenskae) |
| 18:44.06 | freemangordon | enyc: I am not in control of neo900.org, but I guess dos1 won't decline to put "SW devs needed" |
| 18:44.41 | freemangordon | dos1: ^^^ |
| 18:44.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, we won't do that. at best we point to fptf thread. Neo900 isn't involved in sw development |
| 18:44.57 | freemangordon | hmm, correct |
| 18:45.37 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: isn't there already such link (to fptf thread) |
| 18:45.43 | freemangordon | checks |
| 18:45.49 | enyc | different scopes make sense, but try to link to / list all of this at presne,t so somebody 'outside' or 'interested' can actually see all of this in summary |
| 18:46.07 | freemangordon | yes, there is |
| 18:47.00 | freemangordon | enyc: I (and I guess DocScrutinizer05) see your point, but doc is right, it is about HW development |
| 18:47.43 | enyc | nodsnods, but to be useful, or relevant, , or to show what they will/won't be able to use for, etc. its' all relevant to keep reference to, at least |
| 18:47.53 | *** join/#neo900 louisdk (~louisdk@static-5-103-130-65.seas-nve.net) |
| 18:47.54 | freemangordon | there are refs |
| 18:48.14 | enyc | so... one page about hardware, devel, building, ... and another about the software situation ... |
| 18:48.24 | freemangordon | enyc: open neo900.org and search for "Maemo" |
| 18:48.49 | enyc | thinking about it ... are the hardare choices being influenced by "how can we make this uspport maemo in some form" ?? |
| 18:48.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | the heck, I don't even *know* about "the software situation" |
| 18:49.16 | freemangordon | enyc: it is all about it ;) |
| 18:49.36 | freemangordon | i.e. (sorry to say it, but...) RTFM |
| 18:50.20 | freemangordon | enyc: the whole HW design of neo900 is made such that porting fremantle on it to be easier |
| 18:50.40 | freemangordon | or at least I've been told so :) |
| 18:51.04 | freemangordon | ~seen jonwil |
| 18:51.09 | infobot | jonwil <~jonwil@27-33-80-219.tpgi.com.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #neo900, 6h 15m 30s ago, saying: 'freemangordon: ping'. |
| 18:51.09 | enyc | freemangordon: aaaah that reference is useful.... now I see... yes, that makes sense, I see about audio hw compatibility etc. |
| 18:51.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | correct. But that doesn't mean Neo900 UG is any involved into sw development |
| 18:51.27 | enyc | I heard all this in ARM's office ;p fun between them and Linaro/Debian |
| 18:51.36 | enyc | important they talk to each other but also work independently .... |
| 18:51.42 | enyc | each feeding to the other =). |
| 18:51.46 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: sure |
| 18:52.04 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: but you will be :P |
| 18:52.13 | *** join/#neo900 astr (~astr@79-69-196-188.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:52.30 | enyc | its' all important in terms of making usable product that customers will be interested in =) |
| 18:52.41 | enyc | so emplying Linaro people even if they don't sell anything ;p |
| 18:52.56 | freemangordon | enyc: exactly why "we" want fremantle |
| 18:53.42 | freemangordon | most of the "customers" are currently using n900 as their only device |
| 18:53.46 | freemangordon | myself included |
| 18:55.23 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: BTW libnokia-common PA "module" fremantle port seems to be doing just fine, I tested it on my dev n900 and I see no distortion or any signs of failure. Just to know |
| 18:55.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | cool |
| 18:56.14 | freemangordon | is going to watch Bulgaria vs Croatia, night guys |
| 18:56.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | wonders if coffee is alright when waking7getting up at 21:00 in the evening |
| 18:57.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~xyawn |
| 18:57.49 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, xyawn is nice coffee |
| 19:06.57 | enyc | Oooooooooooh I see te october mention, was still seeing the Part III (Coming Soon)... thing! sorry! |
| 19:19.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: we should remove that embarrassing "coming soon" part-III announcement |
| 19:20.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's doing massive damage to Neo900 image |
| 19:49.00 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: yes it gives false impression its one of many ''stalled almost forever'' open source projects |
| 19:50.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900 is no open source project |
| 19:50.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not at all about any source |
| 19:51.23 | enyc | do we say what it is? it says ''open smartphone'' and ''open platform'' so easy to confuse |
| 19:53.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I cannot take care about all the possible misconceptions that somebody might run into when reading the text we write. The words used usually mean what is conceived as commonly agreed up semantic meaning of them, maybe according to Miriam Webster |
| 19:55.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>We bring the hardware, you choose your OS.<< |
| 19:57.12 | enyc | yep don't worry.. feedback 2 ways helps to make things more apparent =)... What would you describe/class this project as? you say ''not at alll about any source'' ?? is the resultant free schematics/etc. _exactly_ a 'source'? |
| 19:57.16 | enyc | nodsnods |
| 19:59.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | the schematics, while promised to get disclosed and published under a `free` licence, is not the aim of the project. The aim is to build and provide a hardware, much like a motherboard for your PC |
| 20:00.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is a strictly commercial enterprise |
| 20:04.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | we call it "open" since it comes with complete comrehensive docs (like schematics, datasheets for all chips available, etc), so you can actually use the hw platform in any way you like. You get all the needed info for doing so. We however do NOT ship this hw platform with any particular OS. It's up to end user to install whatever s/he likes as their OS. Neo900 UG will only provide a Board Support Package based on a debian probably. Such |
| 20:04.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | BSP will provide some proof-of-concept drivers for unique hardware you find on the board, so you can test that hardware. It's NOT a OS for daily use like maemo or android is |
| 20:10.39 | enyc | nodsnods |
| 20:10.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | "source" is commonly used for software, for the sourcecode text. This is no open source project, it's a open hardware project |
| 20:10.59 | enyc | what is the equivaent of 'source' with open hardware? |
| 20:12.34 | *** join/#neo900 Wikiwide (~chatzilla@121.211.246.141) |
| 20:15.36 | *** join/#neo900 kung_fu_mike (~mike@69.164.175.238) |
| 20:20.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably the project files |
| 20:20.43 | *** join/#neo900 xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 20:21.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | though even those don't help when you have closed undocumented chips in your design |
| 20:21.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | you cannot compare apples with racing cars |
| 20:22.09 | Wikiwide | waves |
| 20:22.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | building hardware is a completely different process than coding (building) a software |
| 20:23.33 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: nodsnods |
| 20:23.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and EE all over the world at least twice a week facepalm because of sw devels approching them and try to teach them how to build hw based on same procedures and principles like software |
| 20:24.19 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: can ew copy this shot summary you've put down here, into our basic scope document / isformation given, rather than just ni IRC? |
| 20:24.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | "when you got a hammer then everything looks like a nail to you" |
| 20:24.35 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: theres a lot more 'risk' in hardware? harder to get right, more interdependencies ? |
| 20:25.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course, that's obvious. Just think about patches resp updates. No such concept applies to hardware |
| 20:27.04 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: I had generally wondered about the 'risks' with the closed chips espceally anything in the main SoC |
| 20:27.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | the main SoC got publicly available comprehensive Technical Reference Manual |
| 20:28.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why we chosen OMAP and not other crap like snapdragon or whatever, which frequently has poor or sparse or no docs at all available for the general public |
| 20:29.34 | enyc | The likes of ARM do all sorts to try and avoid loss of license fees etc .... but I don't know where any incentives are to add backdoors of any form in the silicon =) |
| 20:30.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | another misconception about hardware. You hardly can implement such 2backdoor" |
| 20:32.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | and ARM is only selling "specifications" or "plans" to manufacturers like TI, who then build a real hardware from those, and they basically know every single transistor and every single gate in their hardware, so how could ARM try to sneak in a "backdorr" and TI wouldn't notice it? |
| 20:33.26 | enyc | I think it depend,s the core can be licensed in lower level silicon form ?? is it easy to reverse enginere ? etc etc... puzzle =) will TI look? are TI similarly trustworthy =) |
| 20:34.11 | enyc | can the system be ired so as to leak critical paths in RF-world a lot more than without such deliberate interventions? interesting to consider, anyway |
| 20:34.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | will Ford build a backdoor into your car without telling you? Would you fail to notice if there was a backdoor? |
| 20:34.44 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is there even space to add backdoors? |
| 20:34.56 | kerio | also, i sure hope my car has at least two back doors plus a trunk |
| 20:35.17 | enyc | i've heard all sorts of fun wrt CAN bus car management systems p |
| 20:35.33 | kerio | i thought the greatest challenge for a chip maker was actually making everything fit as tight as possible |
| 20:35.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I said backdoor in car, not in car's software |
| 20:35.53 | *** join/#neo900 xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 20:36.29 | kerio | without a backdoor how are the people in the back going to enter the car? |
| 20:37.12 | enyc | kerio: and related 'timing closure' all around that layout.... |
| 20:37.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's really depressing to discuss hw related topics with software (centric) guys |
| 20:38.02 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: nodsneds... i do (try) to understand about both but suspect I have lots more to learn =) |
| 20:40.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically every single question is like "what if <software-concept-4711> flaws the hardware?" and you again explain that <sw-concept-*> is not applicable to discuss any hardware related issues |
| 20:41.33 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: how did you learn the 'hw-concept-*' set? do you only get this from lots of experience and asking lots of questions? |
| 20:41.56 | *** join/#neo900 user (~user@host21-131-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:42.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically yes |
| 20:42.32 | *** part/#neo900 user (~user@host21-131-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
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| 20:49.05 | *** part/#neo900 user (~user@host21-131-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:50.05 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: a friend described to bme problems with Changing from QC to QA process in businesses in days gone by .... somep eople just always seemed to think ''the other way'' regardless |
| 20:51.36 | *** join/#neo900 wazrus (~user@host21-131-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:57.06 | Wikiwide | What's happening with N900s and their batteries? |
| 20:58.06 | Wikiwide | Has any other post arrived (like, dome sheets) ? |
| 20:58.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | when ACME foods is selling "thanksgiving turkey" then you can bet on ACME not applying any guidelines or rules or principles related to cooking a turkey when the raise those turkeys, nor any such rules and principles that are related to thanksgiving. ACME raises animals, kills them, packs them into some bag, freezes them and ships them to the groceries. Nothing in all this process is discussable using a context pertinent to cooking or |
| 20:58.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | religion |
| 20:59.50 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: =) as in -- what are the 'actual' incentives 'in practice' ? |
| 21:01.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wikiwide: nothing to report |
| 21:01.58 | *** join/#neo900 jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-80-219.tpgi.com.au) |
| 21:02.03 | enyc | wonders ho many of the spare N900's have mini-USBs falling off the board ;p |
| 21:02.11 | enyc | err micro-usbs =) |
| 21:02.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | battery #7 about to get charged in N900, considering to charge 25 of them in parallel with my shiny new lab PSU and a script on my PC controlling that PSU |
| 21:02.34 | enyc | has N900's with rather hacked upside-down micro-usbs with red wire and 2* tiny D+ D- wires going to pads =) |
| 21:12.59 | jonwil | freemangordon: ping |
| 21:24.20 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: see PM |
| 21:28.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | ummm, which PM? |
| 21:33.43 | *** join/#neo900 wicket64 (~wicket@gateway/tor-sasl/wicket64) |
| 21:42.00 | *** join/#neo900 user (~user@host21-131-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:49.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: can't find any PM. Or what are you referring to? |
| 21:50.30 | Pali | resent |
| 22:00.14 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@239.238.138.88.rev.sfr.net) |
| 22:06.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | see https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Neo900_receives_55_development_devices_from_Mozilla and https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=701784#c53 |
| 22:08.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>...we'll happilly give them to developers who want to work on something even remotely related to Neo900. Just let us (Neo900) know...<< |
| 22:09.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | emphasis on *Neo900* and on *let us know* |
| 22:19.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1442600 |
| 22:20.48 | freemangordon | jonwil: pong |
| 22:20.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: ^^^ |
| 22:21.22 | freemangordon | yep, read it |
| 22:21.28 | freemangordon | thanks |
| 22:21.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: also see latest µblog entry at neo900.org |
| 22:21.44 | freemangordon | ok |
| 22:22.40 | freemangordon | I hope that to help a bit |
| 22:22.55 | freemangordon | enyc: are you ex-Nokian? |
| 22:24.14 | jonwil | Got my til file built with the relavent bits for the Harmattan x86 pulseaudio blobs |
| 22:24.54 | freemangordon | great :). got my libnokia-common installed on my -devel device, verything seems ok so far :) |
| 22:25.05 | freemangordon | everything even |
| 22:25.22 | *** join/#neo900 sixwheeledbeast (~paul@2a01:348:6:860a:715b:538b:a391:cfff) |
| 22:25.36 | freemangordon | I guess I will have the spare time needed tomorrow to push it on gitorious |
| 22:25.46 | jonwil | great |
| 22:25.49 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: hI |
| 22:25.52 | jonwil | then I can pull it down and start hacking on it :) |
| 22:26.02 | sixwheeledbeast | freemangordon: lo |
| 22:26.05 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: yet another mce in cssu-devel |
| 22:26.09 | freemangordon | :) |
| 22:26.14 | sixwheeledbeast | :nod: |
| 22:26.30 | freemangordon | jonwil: I will do my best to have it on gitorious by tomorrow afternoon |
| 22:26.33 | sixwheeledbeast | not tried it yet working on flopswap at the moment |
| 22:26.37 | freemangordon | (local time) |
| 22:26.39 | jonwil | great :) |
| 22:26.55 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: no hurry |
| 22:27.47 | freemangordon | jonwil: in the meanwhile - could you check my latest commits? |
| 22:27.57 | freemangordon | on cssu gitorious that is |
| 22:28.11 | jonwil | about to |
| 22:28.17 | freemangordon | just to make sure I didn;t screw it up |
| 22:28.33 | freemangordon | mce, spashscreen and modechange headers |
| 22:28.35 | jonwil | Looks good to me |
| 22:28.41 | freemangordon | ok, thanks |
| 22:30.28 | freemangordon | dos1: any chance to change that "we are here" chart on neo900.org to something more recent? |
| 22:41.53 | jonwil | btw fremangordon, dont expect me to be able to do any RE on any of the ARM pulseaudio stuff (i.e. all the armcc stuff missing from the x86 binaries) :) |
| 22:42.07 | jonwil | I can (and will) be REing the x86 binaries |
| 22:42.22 | freemangordon | oh, I know |
| 22:42.24 | freemangordon | :) |
| 22:42.44 | freemangordon | whatever you do will help me a lot |
| 22:43.07 | freemangordon | as this RE effort is huge, but I guess you already know it |
| 22:43.11 | jonwil | yeah |
| 22:44.24 | freemangordon | weird, after I've installed the latest mce, my battery life seems dobled |
| 22:44.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I wonder if you expect openGL driver from fremantle to work under new kernel |
| 22:44.55 | freemangordon | expect? I know it works |
| 22:45.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | great! |
| 22:45.33 | jonwil | hmmm, might take each of the harmattan blobs and figure out which of the fremantle blobs contains the same bits as a useful exercise |
| 22:45.40 | freemangordon | all the "boot into upstream kernel" posts I did on fptf thread were with SGX driver fully functional |
| 22:45.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I always thought it been the major reason why fremantle couldn't get any newer kernels |
| 22:45.57 | freemangordon | naah, we have XSG driver forward-ported |
| 22:46.10 | freemangordon | *SGX |
| 22:46.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | wasn't the 3D part a closed blob? |
| 22:46.46 | freemangordon | it is |
| 22:46.54 | freemangordon | but the driver is FOSS |
| 22:47.02 | jonwil | yeah kernel parts are foss |
| 22:47.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you forward-prted it anyway nevertheless now? |
| 22:47.05 | jonwil | userspace is blob |
| 22:47.06 | freemangordon | 3D part is in the userspace |
| 22:47.33 | freemangordon | and once you have the kernel driver working, userspace is happy too |
| 22:47.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I always knew that, nevertheless I've been told "it can't get ported since we cannot recompile the blob for newer kernel ABI" or words to the effect |
| 22:47.51 | jonwil | Seems to be a trend in mobile GPUs where they put all the secret sauce in userspace blobs and then the kernel driver just exists to shuttle data from the userspace blob to the hardware |
| 22:48.07 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: the kernel driver is a kind of a proxy |
| 22:48.20 | freemangordon | jonwil: :nod: |
| 22:48.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: thought as much |
| 22:48.48 | jonwil | btw freemangordon, do we need to worry about armcc for this RE effort (e.g. the functions inside what the debug information calls armcc_gcc_adaptation.c)? |
| 22:48.54 | jonwil | I am guessing we dont since we wont be using armcc |
| 22:49.11 | freemangordon | though I think we'll have problems with neo900 on that part. as SGX core is(will be) newer |
| 22:49.14 | freemangordon | jonwil: no |
| 22:49.27 | freemangordon | I give my hopes on gcc |
| 22:49.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess I should have queried that statement about "maemo can't get newer kernel" a tad harder, back when |
| 22:50.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | (newer SGX) aiui it shall be 100% backward compatible |
| 22:50.08 | jonwil | for GPU drivers our best option might be to use the TI Graphics SDK (whichever version of that matches the hardware we have) |
| 22:50.18 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: hmm? http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1427621&postcount=115 |
| 22:50.24 | jonwil | That way we are getting the drivers TI recommends for the exact CPU and GPU we have |
| 22:50.52 | freemangordon | jonwil: no, we'll use meego/nemo/harm drivers |
| 22:51.02 | jonwil | hmmm ok, that makes more sense |
| 22:51.21 | freemangordon | not to say TI doesn't have softfp drivers for a while :) |
| 22:51.26 | jonwil | yeah since we have basically the same part as N9 we can use whatever the N9 is using |
| 22:51.33 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 22:51.37 | freemangordon | r125 |
| 22:51.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: sorry, that post is pretty hard to parse/understand |
| 22:51.43 | freemangordon | (vs r121 in n900) |
| 22:52.06 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what exactly is not parsable in "posted by using microb, under:" |
| 22:52.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | that doesn't tell me any useful info at all |
| 22:52.36 | freemangordon | Linux Nokia-N900 3.15.0-rc7-next-20140530+ |
| 22:52.52 | xes | ..sometimes this thread seems the frankenstein lab ;) |
| 22:53.03 | xes | *channel |
| 22:53.29 | freemangordon | how do you imagine microb running on n900 with 3.15 without SGX HW acceleration? |
| 22:53.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't even start to ponder that |
| 22:53.59 | freemangordon | stock/CSSU hildon-desktop won't start without it |
| 22:54.44 | freemangordon | anyway, 3.15-rcN was the latest I booted with (almost) stock fremantle and SGX HW accel running |
| 22:54.59 | freemangordon | didn;t try newest, will do when it comes to it |
| 22:55.28 | freemangordon | by "stock fremantle" I mean CSSU-thumb :) |
| 22:55.46 | *** join/#neo900 ixyzs (~roman@ip4-95-82-141-146.cust.nbox.cz) |
| 22:55.54 | sixwheeledbeast | obviously |
| 22:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | point is: this post maybe has lots of implicit info I could deduce by exactly analyzing it, but very little clear statements like "I accomplished to do: kernel 6.99 with ACME driver foobar 666 and display manager brickbox" |
| 22:56.35 | freemangordon | you sure you read the whole post? |
| 22:56.37 | freemangordon | "The upstream linux-next has only SGX, component_version and bootreason drivers added on top. " |
| 22:57.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc if maemo or modest would run on a system that only has 2D-GFX drivers, or maybe you started modest via VNC, or in terminal in cmdline mode, or whatever |
| 22:58.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know you think it has all info, I'm doing same thing all the time. But posting clear easy to understand info is an art. I'm not good at it, but that post also isn't very clear |
| 22:59.08 | freemangordon | oh, come on. however - this is Fremantle CSSU-thumb, with a couple of tweaks, booted on n900, with linux 3.15-rc7. SGX HW accel works, as is DSP and the modem |
| 22:59.19 | xes | freemangordon: have you ever tried bfs/bfq patches on top |
| 22:59.31 | xes | of recent kernels? |
| 22:59.37 | freemangordon | recent? |
| 22:59.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: how about writing exactly this to the post? |
| 22:59.52 | freemangordon | my ubuntu 14.04 is on 3.13 |
| 23:00.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 23:00.14 | misv | is there a guidline to contribute to neo900 sw wise? :) |
| 23:00.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/linux 3.15-rc7./linux 3.15-rc7 kernel./ |
| 23:01.16 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: linux == kernel ;) |
| 23:01.31 | freemangordon | misv: not exactly, what do you want to know? |
| 23:01.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you do it again. Expecting your readers have all that background you're implying |
| 23:01.59 | misv | freemangordon: what needs to be done and what prereqs there are |
| 23:02.14 | misv | i reckon most will be done in C? |
| 23:02.21 | freemangordon | sure |
| 23:02.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what makes a post hard to read and understand, even by people who actually have that info |
| 23:02.40 | xes | freemangordon: i'm using 3.16.3 with bfs bfq and uksm with an old atom z520 and the system is performing really well with those patches. I can imagine that also an arm cpu would obtain good results |
| 23:02.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | err background |
| 23:03.29 | freemangordon | misv: if you are interested in fremantle on Neo900, then I am the man to ask questions to. Otherwise (Debian, SHR, etc) I can't help |
| 23:04.11 | freemangordon | misv: Re fremantle - there is an effort to have as much as possible closed blobs REed/replaced with FOSS pieces |
| 23:04.16 | misv | freemangordon: i am, though i dunno if i got the right know-how to be of any use :-) |
| 23:04.55 | freemangordon | misv: also, so far there is no maintainer of the freemantle-repo-to-be |
| 23:05.12 | freemangordon | where HW adaptation packages will be put |
| 23:05.31 | freemangordon | misv: any experience with IDA? |
| 23:06.01 | misv | cant say i have no :/ |
| 23:06.13 | freemangordon | sure, if that is the case :) |
| 23:06.27 | freemangordon | misv: do you have n900? |
| 23:06.33 | misv | freemangordon: yes i have |
| 23:06.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | bad post: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1427621 Good post: [font=14PT] maemo booted on kernel linux 3.15-rc7, just works[/font] the components used are: *) kernel linux 3.15-rc7. *) Femantle CSSU-thumb (version 14maemo28) - with some tweaks *) GFX driver: HARM HW accel nokia-foobar_7.14 *) .... |
| 23:06.49 | freemangordon | ok, then you can help with testing/QA |
| 23:07.13 | freemangordon | and whe it comes to - with coding, ofc |
| 23:07.44 | misv | freemangordon: sure, though interactive disassembler seem intresting, will defo read up on that |
| 23:07.50 | freemangordon | misv: another BIG "project" is upstream kernal |
| 23:08.16 | freemangordon | we deffinitely need someone who feels comfortable with alsa/pulseaudio |
| 23:09.14 | freemangordon | misv: so it is up to you to decide, there is lots of stuf to be done |
| 23:09.17 | freemangordon | *stuff |
| 23:09.52 | misv | yeah id love to start out with the basics (test/QA) to learn some of the basics so i can contribute |
| 23:10.13 | freemangordon | also, don;t assume there is a real "project manager" here, we're all volunteers, so, whatever you do will help. usually :) |
| 23:10.22 | freemangordon | misv: your n900 is on CSSU? |
| 23:11.45 | misv | freemangordon: dont think so, have to check and see if its clean wiped. bought it recently :) |
| 23:12.08 | misv | freemangordon: ofc, hard to run it as a strict project |
| 23:12.36 | freemangordon | misv: the point is - we will base freemantle on top of some CSSU flavour (most probably -thumb), and until the real HW is out, we can use n900 for development/testing/etc |
| 23:12.43 | freemangordon | so, see: |
| 23:12.45 | freemangordon | ~cssu |
| 23:12.46 | infobot | from memory, cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) |
| 23:12.51 | freemangordon | ~cssu-devel |
| 23:12.51 | infobot | cssu-devel is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84292, or extremely deprecated for any non-developer |
| 23:13.00 | misv | thnx |
| 23:13.55 | freemangordon | misv: the latter is focused on testing/QA and any feedback is appreciated |
| 23:14.13 | misv | sure, i will read up on it and fix my n900 tomorrow :) |
| 23:14.19 | freemangordon | good |
| 23:14.22 | freemangordon | :) |
| 23:14.50 | misv | always wanted to like contribute and help FOSS projects but never really gotten to the point. though this project is different since the end result will be something awsome and useful :p |
| 23:14.51 | Wizzup_ | is also somewhat interested in helping out on sw side, but doesn't have that much free time and needs to sleep now first |
| 23:15.07 | *** join/#neo900 _mAl0_c_ (~m_laquis@lgd31-2-78-218-173-88.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:15.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | please don't use the term "freemantle" - it's very hard to distinguish from "fremantle" even for those who know about the difference and meaning. I suggest FPTF-repo or FOSS-fremantle |
| 23:15.24 | freemangordon | misv: BTW, even if you decide to not test/QA/develop/contribute, it is still highly recommended to install CSSU |
| 23:15.35 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ok, will do |
| 23:15.46 | misv | freemangordon: yeah read some on the first page you sent, seem like a good boost |
| 23:15.53 | Wizzup_ | libremantle? |
| 23:15.56 | Wizzup_ | ;) |
| 23:16.10 | _mAl0_c_ | What is the current development? :) |
| 23:17.54 | freemangordon | _mAl0_c_: hmm? |
| 23:18.39 | _mAl0_c_ | yeah i've see a news on neo900, you are searching some guys to dev |
| 23:19.01 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: see :P |
| 23:19.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: seen channel count? :-) |
| 23:19.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | _mAl0_c_: best refer to |
| 23:19.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~fptf |
| 23:19.57 | infobot | somebody said fptf was the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 |
| 23:19.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | first |
| 23:20.12 | freemangordon | _mAl0_c_: also, could you please read the logs for the last 20 minutes, we're discussing the same thing with another guy :) |
| 23:20.20 | freemangordon | channel logs that is |
| 23:20.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | we got no live chanlogs |
| 23:20.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 23:20.36 | freemangordon | oh :) |
| 23:20.41 | freemangordon | :( even |
| 23:21.28 | freemangordon | I'll pastebin those then |
| 23:21.46 | _mAl0_c_ | ok :) |
| 23:24.06 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: or, could you do this for me, form question "is there a guidline to contribute to neo900 sw wise? :)" to "sure, i will read up on it and fix my n900 tomorrow :)", my IRC client copy/paste looks awful :( |
| 23:24.56 | freemangordon | otherwise, here it is http://pastebin.com/YE6CN8ct |
| 23:26.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/news/july-trilogy-part-ii-the-present#IDComment887520135 |
| 23:27.12 | freemangordon | xes: sorry to ignore you. anyway, BFS etc is not upstreamed and we (will) have enough out-of-the-tree patches to babysit |
| 23:28.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/c9e62bfaf6 |
| 23:30.24 | xes | freemangordon: np, i know. Anyway i hope you would try the difference one day or another. Those patches can give new life also to overloaded devices |
| 23:39.48 | enyc | misv: btw: if you bought N900 with working USB... its VERY worth going through soldering it down firmly, they all break off board taking pads with them wich is then hard to sort out |
| 23:41.45 | freemangordon | enyc: I bought my n900 on Feb 2010. still no problem with the USB port. |
| 23:42.31 | freemangordon | so it looks like a matter of luck |
| 23:42.54 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: thanks |
| 23:42.55 | enyc | freemangordon: and how you use it |
| 23:43.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 23:43.15 | enyc | freemangordon: but I'm saying ... its worth strengthening *pro-actively* as this is much easier than 'when it then breaks off' |
| 23:43.23 | enyc | freemangordon: and ho previous user used it ...! |
| 23:43.31 | freemangordon | enyc: charging, mass storage, hostmode fro time to time |
| 23:43.46 | enyc | freemangordon: sure, but i mean.. in terms of mechanical stress |
| 23:44.09 | freemangordon | I filed all chargers, USB cables, etc from the day one |
| 23:44.33 | enyc | freemangordon: filed off the hooks? |
| 23:44.36 | freemangordon | yep |
| 23:44.47 | enyc | freemangordon: i see.. but thats not all of it.. think about he forces up down left right ;p |
| 23:44.50 | freemangordon | connector teeth |
| 23:45.01 | enyc | freemangordon: i.e. wiggling the connector around |
| 23:45.07 | freemangordon | well, I am careful :) |
| 23:45.21 | freemangordon | toldya, this device is almost 5 years od |
| 23:45.25 | freemangordon | *old |
| 23:45.28 | enyc | freemangordon: I've had to do the BIG faff reconnecting wires across board USB-fix |
| 23:45.37 | freemangordon | I can imagine |
| 23:45.42 | enyc | freemangordon: its much easier to strengthen one in your current condition |
| 23:46.01 | freemangordon | assuming you have the needed tolls and skills |
| 23:46.07 | enyc | =) |
| 23:46.17 | freemangordon | otherwise one can easily ruin the board |
| 23:46.26 | enyc | freemangordon: at least you've been told ;p or actually was misv i was trying to tell ;p |
| 23:46.37 | freemangordon | yeah, it was misv :) |
| 23:47.13 | enyc | taking apart is a fiddle unplugging the screen etc tohugh not too bad |
| 23:47.28 | enyc | aking board and and soldering don USB.. similary not TOO bad |
| 23:47.49 | enyc | especially as its right at edge of board, not too many components about in that space iirc |
