IRC log for #neo900 on 20141016

01:00.36*** join/#neo900 louisdk (~louisdk@static-5-103-130-65.seas-nve.net)
01:57.36*** join/#neo900 silviof (~silviof@unaffiliated/silviof)
02:19.21*** join/#neo900 Oksana (~chatzilla@129.94.239.199)
02:23.19OksanaGoing for lunch...
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04:11.22OksanaHow are you?
04:17.25*** join/#neo900 jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-80-219.tpgi.com.au)
04:27.13x29alol, what timezone are you in?
04:32.15OksanaAlternative Universe :)
04:33.09OksanaYou? :)
04:36.52*** join/#neo900 mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@unaffiliated/mvaenskae)
04:37.09OksanaNever Land?
04:41.12Oksanax29a ^^^ ?
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09:53.29*** topic/#neo900 is http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ | 2013-11-04 - the day our fundraiser reached its goal, 25k EUR | 2013-12-02 - 200 devices reached! | 12-14 50035EUR, 232 units | 01-17 60kEUR, 300 units | 02-28 333 units, 70k€ | 03-28 350 units, 400 donations, 73555€ | 0501 360 410 75k | 0712 183 ~30k | 0810 300 ~49k | 0914 346 ~56k
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11:11.53DocScrutinizer05charging #55
11:11.55DocScrutinizer05:-)
11:12.40DocScrutinizer05batch4 consisting of 7 batts had one that fitted the 5.6mm ruler
11:13.02DocScrutinizer05something special about batch3
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12:34.03DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: $all: please review http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random-media/schematics/ and check what you prefer (frame site A4 or A3, frame style) - this is only a random example
12:37.33DocScrutinizer05s/site/size/
12:40.17*** join/#neo900 Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali)
12:48.50DocScrutinizer05freemangordon_: http://privatepaste.com/5ef7816e42 :-S Sorry
13:07.46freemangordon_DocScrutinizer05: those packages are in cssu, I don't get what's your problem
13:08.33DocScrutinizer05my probelm is that speedyham has wrecked my package db and now apt-get refuses to istall anything
13:09.27freemangordon_just apt-get install hildon-application-manager=$STOCK_VERSION
13:09.50DocScrutinizer05IOW speedyham probably has dependencies to newest CSSU, which is kinda odd
13:10.29DocScrutinizer05whatever might be $STOCK_VERSION
13:10.34freemangordon_yes, it has dependencies, and no, it is not odd, as it is supposed to work in that environment, so it makes sense to test it within it
13:11.34freemangordon_the one that correspondents to whatever cssu-t version you have installed on your device
13:11.38freemangordon_check in -pr
13:12.01DocScrutinizer05unusable
13:12.30DocScrutinizer05not even some semi-professional like me gets it how to handle that stuff
13:12.46freemangordon_well, then install the lowest version of HAM that's int the -testing repo, then apt-get upgrade
13:13.10DocScrutinizer05bwahaha sure, apt-get upgrade
13:13.23DocScrutinizer05I ahev a scropt to stop me from doing that
13:13.25freemangordon_ok, apt-get install hildon-application-manager
13:14.10freemangordon_apt-cache policy should give you some hint
13:17.13DocScrutinizer05sorry, no hint, or just too many hints. so many version even privatepaste refuses to accept
13:17.36DocScrutinizer05URL spam
13:19.13DocScrutinizer05apt-get go to hell!
13:19.47*** join/#neo900 mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@unaffiliated/mvaenskae)
13:22.16freemangordon_well, use wget and dpkg
13:22.29DocScrutinizer05is going to use tar to extract packages and mv to place files to where they belong, instead of apt and dpkg
13:23.28DocScrutinizer05wget and dpkg is 'fine'¡ just nevertheless fscks up apt's db
13:23.46DocScrutinizer05done exactly that with speedyham
13:24.25DocScrutinizer05and prolly even before with procps, which forbid further CSSU upgrades
13:37.32DocScrutinizer05freemangordon_: http://privatepaste.com/deede86258
13:40.59freemangordon_DocScrutinizer05: looks fine to me
13:41.10freemangordon_is that "ERRRR..." your comment?
13:41.15DocScrutinizer05that's what I wanted to tell you :-)
13:41.18DocScrutinizer05yep
13:41.42freemangordon_no idea why
13:41.59DocScrutinizer05and funny enough it went to dev/null
13:42.08DocScrutinizer05despite entered into cmdline
13:42.12freemangordon_anyway, make sure to read the sp-rich-core docs and create the needed directory(ies)
13:45.22DocScrutinizer05like this? http://privatepaste.com/94f9bda34c
13:46.47DocScrutinizer05you might want me to upload all those critters to some public place?
13:47.16DocScrutinizer05(reluctant to do so, you never know which critical data is in a coredump)
13:47.18freemangordon_oh, so you have camera-ui coredumps :(
13:47.48DocScrutinizer05:( ? I can delete them ;-P
13:48.03freemangordon_DocScrutinizer05: well, I promise I won;t share in public the pr0n that's been in your device's memory :)
13:48.05freemangordon_noooo
13:48.12freemangordon_don;t
13:48.17DocScrutinizer05hehe
13:49.06freemangordon_please, upload those coredumps somewhere and gimme the lik
13:49.52freemangordon_camera-ui ones, I don;t need the others
13:50.17freemangordon_is afk
13:58.10DocScrutinizer05freemangordon_: I hope your /queries work meanwhile
14:03.52freemangordon_DocScrutinizer05: also, I'll need the *exact* versions of camera-ui those coredumps come from
14:04.01DocScrutinizer05nfc
14:05.07DocScrutinizer05I might be able to tell you what I got right now, and that's prolly what I got the last few months too. But back in 2013??
14:05.29DocScrutinizer05or on May
14:05.33DocScrutinizer05sorry
14:06.20DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# apt-cache policy camera-ui
14:06.20freemangordon_no, only those from 2014
14:06.21DocScrutinizer05camera-ui:
14:06.23DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
14:06.33freemangordon_ok
14:07.06DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
14:07.27freemangordon_anyway, I am going on my way home, bbl
14:08.10DocScrutinizer05I' afk now too
14:08.23DocScrutinizer05you got the URL
14:08.40DocScrutinizer05upload will finish in 13min
14:09.36keriofreemangordon_: i refuse to stand by your fascist package upgrades, please recompile hildon-application-manager against glibc 0.82
14:09.53DocScrutinizer05hehe
14:09.58DocScrutinizer05100% ack
14:10.17DocScrutinizer050.04
14:12.42DocScrutinizer05actually why the heck AMY ">=whatever-version" ??
14:12.46DocScrutinizer05ANY*
14:13.14DocScrutinizer05if the glibc is not compatible, it must not have get updated to start with
14:14.09DocScrutinizer05and I honestly doubt there are _new_ functions in glibc that are needed by speedyham
14:14.50DocScrutinizer05if only peole would get they concept of shared libs sorted
14:14.58DocScrutinizer05people*
14:16.50DocScrutinizer05NB! Depends: libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.24.0) but 2.20.3-1maemo5+0m5 is to be installed
14:17.15DocScrutinizer05both supposed to be libglib2.0-0 so compatible by definition
14:18.15DocScrutinizer05you can't tell me speedyham needs a DEPENDS libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.24.0)
14:19.50DocScrutinizer05so no, not compile against ibglib0.83 but DEPEND on libglib2.0-0 WITHOUT bogus >= 2.24.0
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14:31.03DocScrutinizer05http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html  recommended read
14:33.21DocScrutinizer05particularly >>In addition, there's the name that the compiler uses when requesting a library, (I'll call it the ``linker name''), which is simply the soname without any version number.<<
14:33.47*** join/#neo900 paulk-collins (~paulk@gagarine.paulk.fr)
14:34.02DocScrutinizer05>>Programs, when they internally list the shared libraries they need, should only list the soname they need<<
14:41.02DocScrutinizer05>>Usually you can update libraries without concern; if there was an API change, the library creator is supposed to change the soname<<
14:43.38DocScrutinizer05>>make sure that your libraries are either backwards-compatible or that you've incremented the version number in the soname every time you make an incompatible change<<
14:44.31DocScrutinizer05>> 3.6. Incompatible Libraries
14:44.33DocScrutinizer05When a new version of a library is binary-incompatible with the old one the soname needs to change <<
14:50.16freemangordonI refuse to take the blame for that, this is what is written in the package control file (Depends:= $shlibs_depends or somesuch)
14:52.37DocScrutinizer05obviously either you're supposed to edit the control file manually, or the tool that creates the control file is broken. Probably both
14:53.32freemangordonnothing's broken, this is what Nokia has put in the debian/control
14:53.38freemangordonofc it can be changed
14:53.58freemangordoncontrol file is created by hand
14:54.10freemangordonand it is up to the package maintainer what's written in there
14:54.10DocScrutinizer05we all know that Nokia *massively* failed on managing dependencies
14:54.42freemangordonand who's the HAM maintainer?
14:54.48freemangordonPali?
14:54.51DocScrutinizer05you? :-D
14:54.56freemangordonyou sure?
14:55.00DocScrutinizer05no
14:55.12Palisry, now (17:00) going away...
14:55.15DocScrutinizer05or rather, yes, for speedyham
14:55.22Paliwill be back in 2-3 hours
14:55.39freemangordonhttps://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-application-manager/source/17c6a728be8dd9def69eced62880767733656713:debian/control#L4
14:55.53freemangordonhttps://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-application-manager/source/17c6a728be8dd9def69eced62880767733656713:debian/control#L10
14:56.50freemangordonmaking a patch doesn't make you a maintainer
14:57.49DocScrutinizer05no libglibc there
14:58.07freemangordonDepends: ${shlibs:Depends},...
14:58.12DocScrutinizer05yup
14:58.24freemangordonthis is where it comes from
14:58.51DocScrutinizer05no idea how that works in detail. But obviously it doesn't work as supposed to
14:59.22freemangordonit works exactly how it is supposed to
14:59.41DocScrutinizer05then it's supposed to work in a broken way
14:59.44DocScrutinizer05whatever
15:00.12freemangordonhttp://man.he.net/man1/dh_shlibdeps
15:00.23DocScrutinizer05the idea to have a ">=2.24.98" after every single shared lib is brandamaged
15:01.46freemangordonI am not arguing on that, just saying that that nothing's broken. And as I build HAM in my CSSU target, it depends on libglib in CSSU
15:01.57freemangordon*built
15:02.16freemangordonand the others CSSU lib versions
15:02.29freemangordonlibs even
15:05.56DocScrutinizer05something is broken
15:06.06DocScrutinizer05prolly in sb
15:06.16freemangordonyep, debian/control file
15:06.32freemangordonor rather, not broken, but not suitable for your needs
15:10.41DocScrutinizer05didn't you say the control file is generated?
15:11.35freemangordonno
15:11.49DocScrutinizer05or rather, the content of  $shlibs_depends
15:11.51freemangordonit is the maintainer that writes it
15:12.02freemangordonyes, the content is generated
15:12.13freemangordonby dh_shlibdepends
15:12.23DocScrutinizer05so not the control file is broken but the content of  $shlibs_depends is
15:12.33freemangordonit is not broken either
15:12.41freemangordonread the link ^^^
15:12.49DocScrutinizer05and what's broken is probably the job control for dh_shlibdepends
15:13.47DocScrutinizer05I refuse to accept that "nothing is broken, just the result sucks"
15:15.57DocScrutinizer05there's ">=2.4.678" in dependencies of package which must not be there. Somebody caused it to show up there, which is where stuff is broken. then one who made it show up there did something wrong
15:33.31DocScrutinizer05on an RPM system I - under "depends on:" - can only spot: "libglib-2.0.so.0()(64bit)" and stuff like " libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.2.5)(64bit)",  "libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.4)(64bit)". Not a single "libglibc" and particularly no "<=" or ">=" or anything, for glibc
15:37.27DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/10/16/plasma-desktopPy1874.png
15:43.37DocScrutinizer05the pastebon shows glibc, not the packages that depend on it
15:46.06DocScrutinizer05here's alsa for an arbitrary example: http://wstaw.org/m/2014/10/16/plasma-desktopHZ1874.png
15:47.12kerioDepends: libc6 (>= 2.10), libcurl3-gnutls (>= 7.16.2), libevent-2.0-5 (>= 2.0.10-stable)
15:47.22keriosome transmission-daemon version in debian
15:55.11DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_root_pr1-2_armel/hildon-application-manager/2.2.71-1+0m5/
15:55.28DocScrutinizer05Depends:libalarm2, libapt-pkg-libc6.5-6-4.6, libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.24.0), libc6 (>= 2.5.0-1) ...
15:55.43kerioyeah, there's probably a reason for that
15:57.22DocScrutinizer05so maybe for some reason that version back when needed some function in libc6 that only works correctly in a release >= 2.5.0-1. New patches shouldn't bump this verson restriction to "newest available"
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15:59.26DocScrutinizer05since it's highly unlikely that the patch introduced dependencies to newer version. It should keep the original version, unless devel knows why a newer version is mandatory
16:00.52DocScrutinizer05or - more likely - even the original restriction ">= 2.5.0-1" been bogus, caused by a misconfig of the tools involved in the building process
16:02.09DocScrutinizer05at least that's how I understand it. Take that with a grain of salt since I have zilch background knowledge and experience regarding packaging and glibc
16:02.55*** join/#neo900 b1101 (~b@64.237.51.167)
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16:04.28DocScrutinizer05anyway according to http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html depending on a particular minor version of a DLL is a botch you shouldn't do usually
16:05.33DocScrutinizer05and obviously so, since it gives you and your users dependency/version hell
16:09.03freemangordonHAM debian/control file is made in such a way, that the resulting package will depend on .so libs versions on the system where the package is built
16:09.21DocScrutinizer05yes, and that's broken
16:11.02DocScrutinizer05by concept/design/idea
16:11.30DocScrutinizer05it worked for Nokia publishing a metapackage with all apps included
16:11.52DocScrutinizer05s/publishing/building/
16:12.34wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: A3/A4: both are manageable. A3 is a bit hard to read (scaled to A4) but still readable. pity that text is dark grey and not just black. that wastes contrast for nothing.
16:12.39DocScrutinizer05but then, it would be completely useless for that usecase, since you already know the version of all libs you ship
16:13.37DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: scaling A3 to A4 is not the preferred method to handle it, but even better when you still can do it
16:14.14DocScrutinizer05gray text, yep, annoyance. Vector text even more of an annoyance, since it's not searchable
16:14.19wpwraknot sure what difference to look for in A3 vs. A3*plus. just the amount of stuff there ?
16:14.28DocScrutinizer05yes
16:14.53DocScrutinizer05the obvious difference of amount of components/info on one page
16:14.54wpwrak(scaling) physical limitations of my printer ;-)
16:15.40wpwrakwell, if you only have A4 worth of information per page, then you gain nothing by making the sheet A3 ;-)
16:16.45wpwrakhaving a smaller number of pages is usually nice. so A3*plus or A4 both have their use, making A3 non-plus the worst choice of the three
16:17.18DocScrutinizer05hah, that's "names" layer, will tweak it to "black", no problem
16:18.00wpwrak(black) whee ! :)
16:18.09DocScrutinizer05the intention is to have more stuff per page
16:18.31wpwrakthe original is A4. so maybe nik has some constraints there, too. e.g., what he can print / read.
16:18.43DocScrutinizer05I didn't ask for colors though, that's not a problem to adjust them, etc
16:19.00wpwraki'm not rich enough to have a color laser ;-)
16:19.21DocScrutinizer05I actually hate that green lines even more than grey text
16:19.54DocScrutinizer05and most I hate the missing b&w mode in my laserprinter
16:20.28wpwrakon screen, i don't care much. there you have to zoom in and out all the time anyway. the crappy fonts don't help, but that not something we could easily fix.
16:22.05DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/10/16/plasma-desktopHl1874.png
16:22.48DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: any comment on glibc?
16:23.39wpwrakglibc ?
16:23.40DocScrutinizer05particularly depending on a particular version of it in packages, like DEPENDS libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.24.0)
16:24.23wpwrak(desktopHl1874.png) just how i like my coffee :)
16:24.53DocScrutinizer05hmmpf, I start to get puzzled by glib glibc libglib(c?)
16:25.32kerioglib is gnome
16:25.50wpwrakdependencies on major versions and minimum versions are kinda normal. depends a bit on how cleanly the lib maintainers work. some libraries break compatibility with almost every release :-(
16:26.16DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/10/16/plasma-desktopon1874.png
16:26.16wpwrakso the packager is just the messenger. don't shoot him ;-)
16:26.52wpwraknice color dialog :)
16:27.39DocScrutinizer05sure, gnomelib explains a lot here. Nevertheless I wonder if it makes sense to accept that every new build only works with the currently most recent glib
16:27.57wpwrakno print-to-b&w, like kicad has ?
16:29.27wpwrak(latest lib) you can ask the packagers if they're just being lazy or if they actually have a reason each time. you get both kind of styles. of course, if the lib usually breaks things, then they may just give up at some point in time. compatibility testing can be a lot of work.
16:30.27DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/10/16/plasma-desktopsm1874.png "info" invisible, note the missing annoying "0402" in every R and C ;-)
16:33.12wpwrakwow, it gets almost readable ;-)
16:34.44DocScrutinizer05(A3) I hate stuff like p.12, only having offsheet symbols to page 6 to connect 2 chips (LNA and the anyway obsolete alternative GPS chip) back to page 6 (modem)
16:34.53wpwrakbut i must say that i'm a bit surprised that eagle seems to make it so hard to produce clean schematics. e.g., none of the dimensions seem to match. in kicad, you can go a very long way just with defaults.
16:35.26DocScrutinizer05dimensions?
16:36.02wpwrake.g., spacing between signals and the size of off-sheet arrows
16:36.53wpwrakin kicad, the arrows are small enough that they don't overlap on adjacent signals (unless you pack them really densely)
16:36.57DocScrutinizer05meh, that's something the one who edits decides on
16:38.16DocScrutinizer05in my example beautified schem of p.6 I resized them offsheet symbols so they didn't overlap anymore
16:38.21wpwrak(page 12) yeah, sort of a "subroutine' ;-)
16:39.45wpwrakdo you plan to feed "clean" pages back to nik ?
16:40.44DocScrutinizer05he boggled and explained that he cannot take any schematics from me
16:41.18wpwrakyes, that's why i'm wondering :)
16:41.18DocScrutinizer05:-/
16:43.17DocScrutinizer05he's not able (or willing) to update eagle to any more recent version than the 5.2 or whatever he's using
16:44.33DocScrutinizer05he wants change requests in plain text. wondering if postscript would do
16:44.39DocScrutinizer05;-)
16:45.56wpwrakplain text ? excel !
16:46.17DocScrutinizer05(update eagle) particularly irritating since updates are free (as in beer) afaik
16:47.30DocScrutinizer05wonders whether to update to 7.1 already
16:50.26DocScrutinizer05sure, excel. I can paste the postscript file to excel
16:51.01DocScrutinizer05hits "save" on eagle and inspects the project file
17:09.37DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/130514#3361030 *sigh*
17:10.27DocScrutinizer05eaglebeagle knows to open and read format5 but can't save it
17:15.53*** join/#neo900 Anatoly (~Anatoly@84.238.140.178)
17:17.49wpwrak(uc.net) sounds like a sed job :)
17:19.47DocScrutinizer05http://olimex.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/why-we-will-not-upgrade-to-eagle-6/#comment-12
17:20.07DocScrutinizer05why does olimex sound so familiar?
17:28.11wpwrakthey do lots of stuff
17:34.02DocScrutinizer05it's hardly believable that there's not a single converter eagle6 -> eagle5 format
17:34.38DocScrutinizer05and it's a shame that cadsoft didn't provide such converter right away by themselves
17:37.33*** join/#neo900 che1 (~che@p5B071E57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
17:41.13*** join/#neo900 freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23)
17:42.20DocScrutinizer05http://www.eaglecentral.ca/forums/index.php/mv/msg/45997/143398/93c2b1e73fabbe6fed2d0b5db08f561c/#msg_143398   http://www.eaglecentral.ca/forums/index.php/mv/msg/45997/143404/93c2b1e73fabbe6fed2d0b5db08f561c/#msg_143404
17:44.28*** join/#neo900 freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23)
17:45.12wpwrakmmh. sounds risky.
17:45.53wpwraki'd stay away from using different program versions on any formats too complex to manually verify deltas
17:48.06freemangordonok, lets see how pidgin will bwhave :)
17:48.11freemangordonbehave even
17:57.14*** join/#neo900 Anatoly (~Anatoly@84.238.140.178)
18:01.57DocScrutinizer05XML isn't any "format too complex to verify deltas" ;-)
18:03.49wpwrakwell, "XML" is about as specific as "hex" ;-)
18:05.01DocScrutinizer05http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random-media/schematics/protoV2.1_schematics.scr  ;-D
18:05.53wpwraklooks friendly :)
18:15.25DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random-media/schematics/GTA04b7_export_lib_autogenerated_tempscript.scr
18:16.10wpwrakhmm, what am i supposed to see there ?
18:16.37wpwraknice number of layers, though ;-)
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18:17.46DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/10/16/plasma-desktopWA1874.png  http://wstaw.org/m/2014/10/16/plasma-desktopgc1874.png
18:19.52DocScrutinizer05http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random-media/schematics/protoV2.1_schematics.scr looks friendly but of course wails with "unknown component: D101" or sth like that. Libs missing
18:21.50wpwrakSOT223-6 looks right, but the symbol is a bit odd
18:26.15DocScrutinizer05some inconsistency in embedded lib symbols of original project file
18:28.34wpwrakmaybe a different way to count pins. with that sort of component, it wouldn't be entirely uncommon to have a large contact area broken into several individual pads.
18:28.56DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/10/16/plasma-desktopAW1874.png is what the window of lib export looks like after finishing
18:29.09wpwrak(for "technical reasons", whatever they may be in a specific case)
18:29.22DocScrutinizer05the frame evidently looks different to what I got when I open the gta04b7.sch
18:33.31wpwrakyes, interesting metamorphosis :)
18:34.19wpwrakat least now we know how centipedes grow all those legs :)
18:34.56DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/10/16/plasma-desktopdP1874.png   dang, using /home/jr/eagle/proto_V2_1/GTA04b7.lbr and then running http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random-media/schematics/protoV2.1_schematics.scr
18:38.43DocScrutinizer05line 48:  ADD 'D101' 'G$1' V5.5MLA0603N@OpenPhoenux R90.000 (3.000 5.900);
18:39.46DocScrutinizer05okok, maybe I need to export the lib differntly, there's a number of options around "keep lib name as suffix" etc
19:25.46DocScrutinizer05GRRR! the ULP that creates http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random-media/schematics/protoV2.1_schematics.scr is buggy. ""ADD 'D101' 'G$1' V5.5MLA0603N@OpenPhoenux R90.000 (3.000 5.900);"" must be ""ADD V5.5MLA0603N@OpenPhoenux 'D101' 'G$1' R90.000 (3.000 5.900);""
19:28.30DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
19:33.56DocScrutinizer05ohmy, seems the syntax of some commands (at least ADD) changed since 2004 :-S  http://www.cadsoft.de/downloads/file/export-schematic.ulp
19:36.46DocScrutinizer05HMMMM!  http://www.cadsoft.de/downloads/file/importexport.zip uploaded 0.0.0000
19:44.41DocScrutinizer05err  http://www.cadsoft.de/downloads/file/export-import.zip
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22:04.32Oksanafreemangordon_ : Yes
22:04.34OksanaHumorous [I was using aptitude upgrade whenever I could; but it was probably one year ago last time I tried it; and I am using CSSU-Testing, not Devel]: bwahaha sure, apt-get upgrade; I have a script to stop me from doing that
22:04.56OksanaGood morning!
22:05.58OksanaCharging #55? Did any additional dome sheets from Gerry arrive?
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