IRC log for #neo900 on 20141222

00:33.17OksanaOkay, is SIM card slot for N8 compatible with N950? Because I have practically tore away the SIM holder from N950, since with three broken-off pins it was useless. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-GENUINE-ORIGINAL-SIM-CARD-SLOT-TRAY-HOLDER-FOR-NOKIA-N8-F316-/160801574980
00:34.17OksanaI would be glad to find something compatible, but shaped like N900's SIM holder, to avoid tearing it apart if pins happen to break again.
00:35.04DocScrutinizer05err, N950 is slot-in
00:35.29DocScrutinizer05odds are Nokia used same type they already had on stock, so I'd say "test it"
00:38.16OksanaOk... In appearance, it's very close, but not exactly the same. Are there any electrical pins for SIM-holder, besides 6 SIM-pins? Or are all other solder-points just for stability of holder on the board?
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00:38.51OksanaJust to be aware of what exactly has to be compatible.
00:40.07DocScrutinizer05there's a switch
00:40.45DocScrutinizer05"card detect"
00:40.53DocScrutinizer05or 2card inserted"
00:43.08Oksana2nd card inserted?.. Ok, right now it's important for "card detect" to work, too.
00:45.09dos1afaik on german keyboard " char is under 2 key :)
00:46.15DocScrutinizer052="
00:46.58DocScrutinizer05""2"222"""!!!1!!!!!11!!
00:47.09DocScrutinizer05;-)
00:48.00dos1Oksana: btw - thanks for your newsletter draft! I'll publish it later today :)
00:48.40Oksana:-)
00:51.24OksanaThis one looks exactly like what was in N950... But flex cable is not what I need, at all. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-SIM-Card-Slot-Holder-with-Flex-Cable-Board-For-Nokia-C7-/280966249007
00:56.20DocScrutinizer05know what? simply peel it off ;-)
00:56.57DocScrutinizer05you heard about N95 camera?
00:57.26DocScrutinizer05all the same story I'd bet
00:58.33DocScrutinizer05worst case it's soldered and you need to clean the pins with soldering iron from flex copper trace remnnts before soldering it to N950
01:04.01OksanaI do have soldering iron available, fortunately. How do I clean the pins from flex copper trace? I wish they had documentation on differences between 14011V2 and 14191V2.
01:10.13DocScrutinizer05cleaning is simple: wipe the contacts clean with soldering iron and a tad of fresh solder
01:11.04DocScrutinizer05you can even use steel wool and wipe the hot contact and molten solder with it
01:11.14DocScrutinizer05gently
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01:11.47DocScrutinizer05but usually not needed, any dirt and debris will come off and stick to the soldering iron tip
01:12.17DocScrutinizer05it's way simpler than it sounds
01:15.43OksanaOkay. Just trying to hunt down suitable (for N900) microUSB port-connector from same seller, to have them shipped together.
01:16.31DocScrutinizer05those shouldn't cost more than max 50ct per component
01:20.18DocScrutinizer05btw the new schematics still are not "fit for primetime", there's still quite a few things that need to get fixed or finalized before we even could start thinking of layout
01:21.58OksanaOk :-)
01:29.10OksanaOk, does this microUSB look alright? Or does it attempt to dig burrows in the board? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement-10-Pcs-Micro-USB-Data-Charging-Port-Connector-for-Nokia-C7-/310690882218
01:29.46wpwrakspeaking of "finalizing", shall i make a TLV1702 (dual op-amp, as used for ECI) begin to appear in IR ? :)
01:32.12DocScrutinizer05not yet.
01:32.28DocScrutinizer05Oksana: those look weird and not like they would be a good fit
01:35.55DocScrutinizer05Oksana: see bare PCB scan on my server for footprint and missing holes of any kind in PCB
01:39.15wpwrakspeaking of bare PCB scans and such, it may be nice to have a public page that organizes the links to all the various public resources nicely. those scans, the "3D" scans, the IR white paper, schematics, things like issue tracker, maemo hardware pages, elinux.org, bootloader_project, etc.
01:39.56DocScrutinizer05o.O
01:39.58wpwrakbasically a Neo900 technical jump page
01:40.27wpwraki know that each of us has something like this in one way or another, but why duplicate all the effort ? :)
01:40.27DocScrutinizer05sth like http://neo900.org/resources maybe?
01:40.58wpwrakthat looks like an excellent start :)
01:41.42OksanaOk, the pads are interesting... http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random-media/DSCF0309.JPG
01:42.39DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/
01:42.57DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/platine_02.jpeg
01:45.38DocScrutinizer05closes http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/21/plasma-desktopK11330.png window
01:55.46DocScrutinizer05moved gallery to neo900.org
01:56.04DocScrutinizer05actually copied
02:03.30OksanaWhat about this microUSB? http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/9/3/4/9/3/1/webimg/794055090_o.jpg
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02:07.24DocScrutinizer05they might fit with a bit of tweaking
02:09.15OksanaIs this one better? http://www.digikey.com.au/product-detail/en/10118192-0001LF/609-4613-1-ND/2785378
02:10.07DocScrutinizer05yes, those look quite good
02:12.37DocScrutinizer05http://portal.fciconnect.com/Comergent//fci/drawing/10118192.pdf
02:14.02OksanaWith shipping charge of $34 AUD, I should be buying no less than 100 pieces. :-/ That's the problem with wholesale sellers.
02:14.43DocScrutinizer05yes, I know
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02:54.39OksanaOk, to keep the price of each connector below $0.5 AUD, I would have to order 250 of them. [sigh] digikey, mouser, arrow, all FCI distributors follow the same scheme.
03:02.37OksanaDo I need to specify VAT number, and what is it going to be used for?
03:15.26OksanaWhat kind of question is that - Will components purchased be resold in their purchased form?
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10:14.31DocScrutinizer05now for step two, which is a college degree stuffed with absolutely nothing at all, errr which would be TMC over IP then
10:16.16DocScrutinizer05I guess they thought a simple telnet connection to talk TMC to the scope was was waaaaaay too obvious and simple
10:19.57DocScrutinizer05hmm TMC is USB-specific
10:20.02DocScrutinizer05:-(
10:21.05keriostop saying "telnet" when you mean "raw"
10:21.07DocScrutinizer05probably they implemented USBoverTCP for the Rigol's network jack ;-P :-(
10:21.10keriotelnet is anything but raw
10:21.22kerioit can't send bytes over 127, for fuck's sake
10:21.33DocScrutinizer05oooh, good point
10:21.35kerio(without negotiating for it)
10:22.32DocScrutinizer05well, TMC is not the protocol of choice for TCP/IP anyway
10:23.46DocScrutinizer05I rather should check if LXI has some words on protocol via network
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10:24.44DocScrutinizer05http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAN_eXtensions_for_Instrumentation
10:31.05DocScrutinizer05ok, TMC and LXI/IVI both talk SCPI. That's a start
10:31.24kerioDocScrutinizer05: https://acehack.de/~kerio/ssllabsznc14.html
10:32.14keriothe result of ssllabs' analysis on znc 1.4
10:33.17DocScrutinizer05whatever that means
10:33.35keriopretty much everything that can go wrong with ssl goes wrong
10:33.51kerio(ignore the cert issues)
10:34.17DocScrutinizer05sorry, I have a too cloudy idea of what you're after
10:34.41kerioi just ran it on a znc stable instance cuz i was bored, or smth
10:34.48kerioi tried running it on znc nightly but it crashed :c
10:37.52DocScrutinizer05well, since heartbleed I'm anyway reluctant to use SSL everywhere and indiscriminately
10:38.33DocScrutinizer05particularly IRC looks like the ideal candidate to demonstrate a completely futile usecase for SSL
10:39.12bencoh:]
10:39.46bencohdepends on what kind of "security" you want to achieve
10:40.01bencoh(where, what for, "against" who)
10:40.31DocScrutinizer05to me it sounds like "hey, we used strong encryption for the wireless microphone you use for your talk on that congress"
10:40.44bencoh:)
10:40.56Wizzupirc also has private messages
10:41.04Wizzupbut mostly, yes
10:41.15bencoh"private" stuff that goes through public servers isnt really private
10:41.38DocScrutinizer05I know, but hey, there are better protocols than IRC for private chatter
10:42.34DocScrutinizer05I'd suggest having a look  into SIPS for that, or simply use ... skype ;-P
10:42.55DocScrutinizer05both allow secure texting
10:43.06bencohwho are you and what did you do to doc ?
10:43.11DocScrutinizer05well, for skype it's arguable
10:44.14DocScrutinizer05SIPS is even the standard messaging method in LTE afaik
10:46.09DocScrutinizer05http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Initiation_Protocol
10:46.35Wizzupbencoh: Well, that's just the term for it :)
10:46.45bencoh:)
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10:48.16DocScrutinizer05dnag! wikipedia!! you left out SIP INFO in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Initiation_Protocol#SIP_request
10:49.11DocScrutinizer05ooh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Initiation_Protocol#Instant_messaging_and_presence
10:49.23kerioDocScrutinizer05: your presence in certain channels is definetely a secret only shared between the ircops and the people in the channel
10:49.30kerioif you use ssl
10:49.52DocScrutinizer05tzz
10:50.40DocScrutinizer05IRC per definition is the opposite of private and secure
10:50.46kerioit's not about protecting your stuff from the universe
10:51.00kerioit's about protecting your stuff from the starbucks network operator
10:51.16kerioor even other users, if there's no encryption on the wifi network
10:52.42DocScrutinizer05TZZZ!
10:53.13kerioeven making it slightly more annoying to sniff your shit can help
10:53.32DocScrutinizer05"app XY stores my passwords unencrypted so when somebody hacks my account on this machine, he can easily read out my passwords" BWAHAHAHA
10:54.49kerio"i don't want to learn about encryption so i'll just pretend it's useless"
10:54.59DocScrutinizer05"changelog: due to popular demand we introduced ROT13 encryption for passwords in ACME app 4.9"
10:55.19keriodoesn't really work like that
10:55.47bencoh:]
10:56.02keriobut whatever helps you feel better about yourself, i guess
10:56.07kerio:V
10:58.21DocScrutinizer05whenever you hope for "improved security" by implementing obfuscation on deeper layers since you doubt the outermost layer is prooperly locked down and secure, you're suffering a *massive* delusion
10:59.11bencohwe dont doubt the outermost layer, we know it should be considered unsecure
10:59.14bencohjust like modems ;)
10:59.24DocScrutinizer05but sure, for public open WiFi a SSL may help a lot
11:01.16DocScrutinizer05I'd feel somewhat reluctant to authenticate to nickserv over an unsecured connection when I use a public hotspot
11:02.58DocScrutinizer05so nevermind my frowning on SSL in ZNC, for some usecases it sure makes sense
11:05.02DocScrutinizer05just saying: last threats we seen that made us change our passwords all were *due to* using (flawed) SSL, not due to _not_ using SSL
11:07.45keriowas it?
11:08.17kerioit was a rootkit on one of the servers
11:08.19keriohow's that related to tls
11:08.25DocScrutinizer05not sure about it for freenode ircD7
11:08.48kerioanyway, i like the idea of ECDSA-NIST256P-CHALLENGE for sasl
11:09.05keriosince it makes the *servers* immune to password sniffing
11:09.15kerioonly the services know of your shit
11:09.42DocScrutinizer05err, usual challenge response scheme?
11:09.46kerioyeah
11:09.51kerioone of the many
11:09.51DocScrutinizer05:nod:
11:10.01keriobut based on keypairs instead of your password
11:10.05jonwilbah, why wont my N900 play its SMS tone properly...
11:10.16kerioanyway, xchat on n900 can't tls :c
11:10.23jonwilIt can play music via mediaplayer no problems but the same mp3 file as an SMS tone wont play if I send myself a test SMS
11:10.25DocScrutinizer05:-S
11:11.00keriojonwil: something with the cache of tones or smth
11:11.06keriotry changing it and then changing it back
11:11.11jonwilTried that, nothing
11:11.12kerioalso check you're not in silent mode :P
11:11.18jonwiland no I am not in silent mode
11:11.18DocScrutinizer05SMS tone (like all "alarm tones") is converted to a .wav format and stored in a special location
11:11.58DocScrutinizer05some sort of .wav. May also be .au or whatever
11:13.02DocScrutinizer05andway on picking a ringtone, system tone, whatever, the system "compiles" the audio at config time, so it plays something completely different logically than you think it does
11:13.11DocScrutinizer05anyway*
11:13.15jonwilwhere is that location?
11:13.28DocScrutinizer05~/.local/cahce or sth
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11:14.41DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
11:15.22jonwildoes anyone know which binary plays the sounds?
11:15.28DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/22/plasma-desktopN11330.png
11:15.36DocScrutinizer05some daemon
11:15.56DocScrutinizer05ringtoned and whatnot else
11:16.05jonwilthere is no such thing as ringtoned :)
11:16.06DocScrutinizer05afaik
11:16.34DocScrutinizer05inspect a htop and you'll find it
11:19.02DocScrutinizer05prolly some are played by sysinfod
11:20.13DocScrutinizer05hmm /usr/bin/hildon-sv-notification-daemon
11:20.23DocScrutinizer05sorry nfc, nevermind
11:21.40DocScrutinizer05while :; do fuser /home/user/.local/share/sounds/acme.wav; done
11:22.54DocScrutinizer05I knew about such stuff... 3 or 4 years ago. I forgot
11:22.58DocScrutinizer05sorry
11:25.42jonwilhildon-plugins-notify-sv is definatly related, lets pull that apart and see
11:28.44jonwilyep, hildon-sv-notification-daemon is definatly related to ringtone playback
11:32.43jonwilseems like a reboot fixed it, the smstone plays now
11:33.36DocScrutinizer05annnoying but helpful practice, yeah
11:33.57DocScrutinizer05retarting that zoo of daemons isn't exactly trivial
11:34.03DocScrutinizer05restarting*
11:35.17jonwilnot sure exactly how long my N900 is going to survive anyway, it might be getting the dreaded cellmo failure (seen at least one instance of the "no sim" icon as of late even with inserted SIM card)
11:36.57DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: further inspection of domesheet/lightspreader resulted in the recognition that the white dots are a noticeable surface structure on the bottom side of lightspreader, not any printed stuff on top
11:40.49DocScrutinizer05either printed or microlenses. unclear yet
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11:53.56DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/22/vlcsnap-2014-12-22-12h51m53s200.png
11:57.56DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/22/vlcsnap-2014-12-22-12h55m24s11.png  http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/22/vlcsnap-2014-12-22-12h56m21s69.png  http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/22/vlcsnap-2014-12-22-12h57m02s222.png
12:06.36DocScrutinizer05ik, after "manual raster force microscope" examination there's no doubt those are (printed?) dots bumps that add material to the transparent foil to form microscopic "hills"
12:06.44DocScrutinizer05ok*
12:07.41DocScrutinizer05nothing beats a syringe needle for stuff like mechanically testing those "hills"
12:15.04DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/22/vlcsnap-2014-12-22-13h10m57s123.png  http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/22/vlcsnap-2014-12-22-13h11m25s147.png  http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/22/vlcsnap-2014-12-22-13h12m38s106.png  http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/22/vlcsnap-2014-12-22-13h13m20s13.png
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15:21.40DocScrutinizer05http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1453447#post1453447
15:27.19Humpelstilzchenhmm can't we have a dedicated announcement thread so once don't have to watch this xxl long thread with probably about 80% spam?
15:28.13DocScrutinizer05well, for real announcements we got dedicated threads
15:28.31DocScrutinizer05not any sidenote or shared thought is an announcement though
15:29.11DocScrutinizer05guggsu hier: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93498
15:29.27Humpelstilzchendanke
15:29.29DocScrutinizer05:-)
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16:11.36OpenbotChrismas ! Folks
16:12.11DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/22/rigol_USB-SPSU_noise_N900_charge_nocharge.bmp taken with a 1kR 3cm-diameter "loop" at tip of probe, next to N900 charging (and then stopping trickle charge) from an USB PSU
16:12.40DocScrutinizer05zooming in shows the frequency is ~200kHz
16:14.33DocScrutinizer05snapshot taken by " echo ":DISP:DATA?" >/dev/usbtmc0; cat /dev/usbtmc0 | dd of=/tmp/rigol_USB-SPSU_noise_N900_charge_nocharge.bmp bs=1 skip=11 "
16:16.42DocScrutinizer05should have added a "|pastebinit"
16:17.16DocScrutinizer05instead of "of="
16:17.28DocScrutinizer05;-)
16:18.46DocScrutinizer05(prolly doesn't work like this, for pictures)
16:21.04DocScrutinizer05btw there are 3 more USB PSU side to side to the one used for N900
16:22.07OpenbotRegarding metel sliding mech of n900 i inquired and found that they came from nokia and are not available elsewhere though if lucky at most 30 such pices coud be found if i could track that chain
16:22.09DocScrutinizer05so the randomness / structure in noise floor after N900 stopped the recharge period might well be from one of the other devices powered by SPSU around
16:22.58DocScrutinizer05yes, those slider mech are obviously genuine proprietary Nokia parts
16:23.37OpenbotYep it was ironic when i found that :(
16:23.39DocScrutinizer05we need to hurry to secure the remaining few ones available at several places
16:23.45kerioDocScrutinizer05: how much fun are you having with that thing? :D
16:24.04DocScrutinizer05kerio: not as much as I wish I had time for
16:24.27OpenbotDocscrutinizer05 you found some ?
16:24.29DocScrutinizer05a 15min maybe 2 times a day, when I can't resist
16:24.56DocScrutinizer05Openbot: yes, I got a 6 bare ones and 4 with flexcable mounted
16:25.00OpenbotSpsu =
16:25.10DocScrutinizer05swithced power supply unit
16:25.41DocScrutinizer05aka "wallwart"
16:25.47DocScrutinizer05in this case
16:26.37DocScrutinizer05I guess nowadays you hardly find any with classical transformer inside
16:26.45OpenbotDocscrutinizer05 great shame that i didnt got them then and you know what he got n950 parts too i.e display and touch stiked
16:27.14DocScrutinizer05duh! N950 spare parts?? wow!
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16:27.29kust0m3rHi
16:27.32OpenbotI also got a psu type thing
16:28.16DocScrutinizer05sorry folks, I have to run like a shocked monkey to get some shopping done before shop closes
16:29.41OpenbotYeah those came in the flood when nokia got bonkers ! Had i looked earlier i woud have found €10 n900s in dozens
16:32.17OpenbotAnyway parts gona be harder to source as days go i can feel it as i am barely finding genuine oem like parts for symbians and thats a real trouble for me
16:34.35OpenbotOksana : you are great !
16:35.35Openbotpays his tribute to oksana for his dedication to add extra sensors on neo900
16:36.32OpenbotAha something wrong with the lang i feel ^^
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17:49.06DocScrutinizer51~ping
17:49.06infobot~pong
17:49.32kerioDocScrutinizer51: why in the fuck is xchat compiled with a static and old openssl
17:53.13DocScrutinizer05and wtf xchat acts up like mad, cooperating with new ZNC to playback bazillions of old buffered lines and thus freezing my whole N900, literally?
17:53.31keriostop blaming znc :c
17:53.57DocScrutinizer05meh! I didn't change anything except updating ZNC
17:54.48keriodo you have savebuff enabled
17:55.04keriothe only weird thing is that now there's querybuffers and they're cleared separatly
17:55.08kerioseparately
17:56.53DocScrutinizer05I enabled clearbuf or sth like that, suggested to delete buffers on any ~ping or whatever action from client
17:57.12kerioyeah, that's pretty fucking good
17:57.40kerioit prevents the old "znc thinks n900 is connected but it actually timed out so you lost a bunch of messages" thing
18:03.17DocScrutinizer05>> By the next update we can expect a range of packages ready for beta-testing, providing a devuan package that automatically does pinning on a Debian 8 "Jessie" and installs components and shims to keep systemd away and stay with sysvinit as default for PID1.<<  \o/
18:04.13DocScrutinizer05VUAs are awesome!
18:04.45kerioVUA?
18:04.58DocScrutinizer05Veteran Unix Admins
18:05.06DocScrutinizer05deVUAn
18:05.20DocScrutinizer05s/debian/devuan/
18:05.47keriooh rofl
18:05.58DocScrutinizer05several people laughed at devuan, I think they stopped laughing meanwhile
18:09.28DocScrutinizer05>>subject: "Update from the Veteran Unix Admins"
18:09.30DocScrutinizer05From:Devuan majordomo <vua-reply@devuan.org>  (Devuan.org)<<
18:10.42kerioyeah it's pretty good
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18:21.18wpwrak(rigol pic) very nice ! quick performance improvement: dd ... bs=11 skip=1
18:22.34wpwrak(light spreader) hmm, would make sense. so that critter will be a bit more complex than expected
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18:34.41DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: hmmmm >> skip_bytes               treat 'skip=N' as a byte count (iflag only)<< I wonder if that means it works with bs=2M as well
18:40.02DocScrutinizer05:-D http://privatepaste.com/502b4d5fbd
18:41.08DocScrutinizer05almost factor 1000 :-)
18:41.48DocScrutinizer05I guess that beats bs=11 hand down
18:41.52DocScrutinizer05;-)
18:43.14DocScrutinizer05(light spreader) I still think - even more now - that printing should be feasible
18:44.53DocScrutinizer05what I still fail to understand is the elementary difference between printed-on-surface white varnish and glued-to-surface white domesheet adhesive
18:45.24DocScrutinizer05must be the glue in the end
18:46.03DocScrutinizer05a friend suggested laser engraving instead of printing
18:46.26wpwrak(skip_bytes) ah, nice new feature :)
18:46.29DocScrutinizer05dunno if that works on transparent plastic
18:48.20DocScrutinizer05we should ask the ligh guide guys how much they call for making a 1000 spreaders
18:48.52DocScrutinizer05seems they also can make prototypes in 3 working days and "for cheap"
18:49.12DocScrutinizer05maybe they can make a 1000 prototypes?
18:49.57DocScrutinizer05maybe cheaper than printing a reel with 50000, given you need the steel rolls for that
18:50.21DocScrutinizer05well "printing", what they do after prototyping
18:50.49DocScrutinizer05embossing actually
18:51.37DocScrutinizer05but who knows, maybe they use a sheet of etched alu in the roll surface, and it's not all that expensive
18:52.33wpwrak(nik's mail, forwarded) thanks !
18:52.40DocScrutinizer05oooh that gives me ideas. We are EE we know to etch metal
18:52.45DocScrutinizer05yw
18:53.52DocScrutinizer05innovative use for a etched PCB and a flat-iron ;-D
18:54.27wpwrakah yes that would produce little bumps :)
18:55.11DocScrutinizer05I guess I jave to contract whitequark
18:55.15DocScrutinizer05have to*
18:55.17wpwrakor machine the "pcb" (whatever material you use) if the bumps need to go deeper
18:55.38DocScrutinizer05zjey are arounf 0.05
18:55.43DocScrutinizer05dang!
18:55.51DocScrutinizer05they are around 0.05
18:56.10wpwrak1 oz copper is ~35 um
18:56.23DocScrutinizer05sound about right
18:57.28DocScrutinizer05exactly what we need
18:58.46DocScrutinizer05but toner transfer should also work, given we can find white toner
19:01.16DocScrutinizer05or copperplate print
19:01.29DocScrutinizer05using white varnish
19:02.40DocScrutinizer05there's a *lot* to test, and probably all will work to a certain degree (of efficiency)
19:03.36DocScrutinizer05HMMMM, shooting holes through the whole dang foil of spreader, using electric discharge
19:03.39DocScrutinizer05or laser
19:04.44DocScrutinizer05downside: there's no linear relation between "diameter" and flux any more
19:05.53DocScrutinizer05hey! you coul try a hot needle in your CNC
19:07.26wpwrakhot pogo pin ? :)
19:07.30DocScrutinizer05do you have a laser pointer? it's quite some fun to shoot a laser into the lightspreader from side. You could do that even on the spreader on N900, without damaging or removing it
19:07.43DocScrutinizer05yep, exactly
19:08.29DocScrutinizer05maybe it heats up by itself at friction to plastic when it spins @ 20k/min
19:08.34DocScrutinizer05;-)
19:09.28DocScrutinizer05I'm sure you know in indistry the "weld" plastic together by ultrasonic
19:10.01DocScrutinizer05the internal friction heats up the plastic and melts it together
19:11.16DocScrutinizer05seems it's a pretty convenient method
19:11.47DocScrutinizer05I got nfc about amplitude nor frequency though
19:12.56DocScrutinizer05I wonder if I just invented the new enegy saving flat-iron, en passant
19:13.40DocScrutinizer05there's ultrasonic washing machine already, not even needs detergents allegedly
19:14.04DocScrutinizer05which is why some Unilever bought the patent and never made a product out of it
19:14.39DocScrutinizer05urban legend!
19:15.11DocScrutinizer05afk for a coffee
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19:17.39old900hello
19:18.27keriohello
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19:34.27wpwrak(unilever) ;-)))
19:35.07old900neo911 porsche edition
19:35.08old900xD
19:36.46DocScrutinizer05hey, nice :)
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19:56.55vakkovDocScrutinizer05: did you re-work the beagles?
20:02.22DocScrutinizer05I cannot do this, it needs $$$$$ tools to do so
20:02.41DocScrutinizer05they are at a lab which will rework them
20:05.16DocScrutinizer05Nikolaus analyzed  our options, it's a tad nasty since the lab says they will probably need vapor phase to solder the PoP, and vapor phase is no local measure, it heats up the complete noard. But there are components on the board that don't tolerate such heading up, we will have to remove them prior to soldering the new PoP&SoC, or we accept them going south and turn into a molten blob of plastic
20:05.49DocScrutinizer05s/noard/board/
20:08.02DocScrutinizer05some guys in query to me claimed they already did similar rework using IR reflow, which is pretty easily restricted to a local area of the chip only. But - as mentioned before - I cannot do the rework no matter which method, so we need to rely on the guy at lab with the tools and the experience
20:09.20DocScrutinizer05when he says IR is prone to fail, I'm the last one to argue with this expert
20:10.10DocScrutinizer05and in the end of the day it's Nikolaus talking to the guy at lab. I don't even know him
20:11.27DocScrutinizer05I'm the EE who does schematics, not the manufacturing engineer who knows the fab
20:12.24DocScrutinizer05eventually I'll have to talk to our fab (Global Components) since it's "me" (== Neo900 UG) to contract them in the end
20:13.03DocScrutinizer05for now Nikolaus is the one in our team who knows all those guys and worked with them on GTA04 already
20:19.04DocScrutinizer05((EE who does schematics)) every now and then Nikolaus tells me that stuff I designed cannot get built due to restrictions in PCB precision or whatever. He's the expert for turning a schematics into a physical device. I'm the guy who has the longer experience in schematics and designing circuitry
20:22.28DocScrutinizer05for a very long time he worked in industry actually producing devices, while I always just watched those guys studying what they do and how they do it. I'm the one who designed the devices and when production started I'm usually out
20:36.28wpwrakyou mean, when the production engineers saw what you had designed, an angry mob carrying torches and pitchforks gathered before your office and you had to make a hurried escape ? ;-))
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20:38.01wpwrak(ir reflow) i kinda wonder if the risk of having to burn a few memory chips wouldn't be better than having the near-certainty of random damage on a global scale ...
20:42.09vakkovhere they reball such chips with a heat gun or ir reflow
20:42.24vakkovand that happens in the mobile shops
20:42.30vakkoveverything works fine
20:44.36wpwrakwhen i read "heat gun" i had for a moment the mental image of "hot glue" and thought "now that's improvising !" :)
20:44.43DocScrutinizer05sure, but PoP is a special sort of critter
20:45.31DocScrutinizer05((sure global damage)) Nik listed the few components that are doomed. It wasn't much of importance among it iirc
20:55.03kerioas in it's stuff that's easily replaceable?
21:04.50DocScrutinizer05as in "it's stuff prolly not needed"
21:04.57keriowut
21:05.01keriowhy are they there
21:05.20DocScrutinizer05mic jack for example
21:05.42keriothat's often useful, on a phone
21:05.46DocScrutinizer05what for we need a mic jack on BB
21:06.11keriooh i misunderstood
21:07.19DocScrutinizer05dnag! "invalid license"
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21:09.20*** part/#neo900 kerio (kerio@acehack.de)
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21:09.25keriowhoops
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21:41.29DocScrutinizer05>> Memory dump with: echo :SYST:UTIL:READ? 15441920,13262848 | ncat -i 1 SCOPE_ADDRESS_HERE 5555 > DS2072A_sdram.bin works fine<<  :-))
21:41.40DocScrutinizer05doubleplus :-D
21:42.14DocScrutinizer05a) netcat (== ethernet)  b) **memory dump** ;->
21:42.45DocScrutinizer05doubleplus :-( for "invalid license"
21:43.57OksanaVUA: Veteran Unix Admins. BIA: Bloated Intentionally ... ? ((ultrasonic washing machine)) http://newtach.en.alibaba.com/product/277179350-200056925/Ultrasonic_washing_machine.html ((Openbot)) Can you get these "n950 parts too i.e display and touch stiked"? Several people on TMO are hunting for N950 display currently.
21:46.31DocScrutinizer05http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg520951/#msg520951  is a dang useful sounding post
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21:47.01DocScrutinizer05I prolly just fail to find the source of info on eevblog that this noob found
21:48.12wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: all you should have to do is enter your serial number on a code calculator, select the option set you want to enable, and get they key. then send/enter the key to/on your scope.
21:49.38DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: how do you think I got confronted with "wrong license!" ?
21:50.03wpwrakah, now i see it
21:51.30wpwrakwhich generator did you use ?
21:56.51wpwrakmaybe this helps: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope/msg571576/#msg571576
21:57.01wpwrak(and the following posts)
21:57.34DocScrutinizer05http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/
21:58.16kerioare you jailbreaking your new oscilloscope doc
21:58.27wpwraklooks good. maybe just need multiple tries.
21:59.01DocScrutinizer05kerio: no way, just trying atypical usage patterns ;-)
22:00.02DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: multiple tries sounds like "try until your result suddenly differs"
22:00.39DocScrutinizer05the key looks valid
22:00.48DocScrutinizer05but doesn't work
22:01.04wpwrakhmm, odd
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22:07.40wpwrakoh, and you should use code DSER instead of DSFR. DSER is like DSFR but without the broken 500 uV
22:08.18DocScrutinizer05yep, I did
22:13.03wpwrakyou used this video ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmJNOwcJh7Y
22:15.04DocScrutinizer05no
22:15.26DocScrutinizer05I'm about to use cmdline calculator which seems to deliver different key
22:15.28wpwrakserial begins with DS1 ? private key is 6F1106DDA994DA ?
22:15.50DocScrutinizer05sure
22:15.52wpwrakgood, that's the next opiton :)
22:19.34DocScrutinizer05"Option installed successfully!"
22:19.57wpwrakwhee ! :) now nothing can stop you :)
22:31.56DocScrutinizer05except of a linux hickup in kernel (kernel update,pending boot) which makes /dev/usbtmc0 a loopback device
22:34.43wpwrak;-)
22:35.30DocScrutinizer05so a last time (I hope) with "turnschuhnetzwerk"
22:37.38DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/22/DS1Z_QuickPrint22.png  http://wstaw.org/m/2014/12/22/DS1Z_QuickPrint23.png
22:38.52DocScrutinizer05sacringly enough during my futile efforts I occasionally had "Board Version: 0.2.1"  :-o
22:43.40DocScrutinizer05dang! what's ncat? I automatically assumed it's nc/netcat
22:44.23DocScrutinizer05also would make sense in "echo :SYST:UTIL:READ? 15441920,13262848 | ncat -i 1 SCOPE_ADDRESS_HERE 5555"
22:44.49DocScrutinizer05but in complains about "netcat: interval cannot be negative"
22:45.29wpwrak(screenshots) neat :)
22:48.43DocScrutinizer05saturn:/tmp # echo '*idn?' | netcat -i 1 192.168.4.23 5555
22:48.44DocScrutinizer05RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES,DS1104Z,DS1ZA164357442,00.04.02.SP3
22:49.37wpwrakremarkably straightforward
22:49.43DocScrutinizer05damn spamn
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22:50.38DocScrutinizer05boozetime
22:50.42DocScrutinizer05o/
22:50.46wpwrakcheers ! :)
22:52.18DocScrutinizer05tinitus @.@  That fan in this Rigol is :-S
22:53.28DocScrutinizer05well, any cheesy PC for same price has worse fan
22:53.35DocScrutinizer05:-D
22:54.25DocScrutinizer05o/ again
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