| 00:11.00 | mvaenskae | how far is the progress? :) |
| 01:13.34 | Wizzup | so what will neo900 use if not systemd? upstart from maemo? openrc? |
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| 02:26.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900 will use what owner installs :-) Somple as that |
| 02:26.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | simple even |
| 02:26.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo uses upstart |
| 02:27.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | when user installs maemo, then Neo900 will use upstart |
| 02:27.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess SHT is still using sysv-init |
| 02:27.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | SHR* |
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| 07:20.24 | pabs3 | https://www.wired.com/2015/03/need-free-digital-hardware-designs/ |
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| 13:45.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy, RMS. He's right... as usual |
| 13:45.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | in a certain way |
| 13:49.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | however I can't 100% agree with him on the moral imperative. I don't think selling software you're not free to share is a crime |
| 13:50.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I rather think you must be allowed to keep your software you paid for in a working useful condition over arbitrary periods of time, even decades |
| 13:54.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I don't see why there's _any_ difference between analog and digital design in his musing |
| 13:55.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually when you look close enough, digital is just a special crippled form of analog. IOW all digital design is based on analog components |
| 13:57.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | simple obvious hint: you still find resistors and capacitors in digital circuits |
| 14:12.20 | pabs3 | I expect he doesn't have enough experience with hardware |
| 14:17.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ponders to design a trinary logic circuit just to puzzle RMS ;-) |
| 14:18.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait... we already got multilevel flash cells |
| 14:18.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | are those digital or analog? ;-P |
| 14:19.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | and tbh I'd be surprised when DRAM would use similar principles |
| 14:20.06 | MonkeyofDoom | I thought the relevant distinction was informational vs. physical, not digital vs. analog |
| 14:20.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | wouldn't |
| 14:20.16 | MonkeyofDoom | (for RMS) |
| 14:21.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Although we need not reject **digital** hardware...<< |
| 14:21.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>As used here, âdigital hardwareâ includes hardware with some analog circuits and components in addition to digital ones.<< |
| 14:24.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | _I_ guess it's done since there (on first thought, at least) are no such things like analog programs he could base his comparison/analogy between sw and hw on |
| 14:24.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | OF COURSE there are also analog computers and thus analog programs |
| 14:25.07 | MonkeyofDoom | analog computers are even rarer than non-electronic digital computers |
| 14:25.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, depends. You might not see them |
| 14:25.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably there are more "analog MCU" than digital |
| 14:26.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | admittedly with "hardwired firmware" |
| 14:26.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | simolar to firmware in ROM for digital MCUs |
| 14:27.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | which according to FSF are no software either ;-P |
| 14:27.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | SCNR to make a bit of fun of FSF regarding that |
| 14:28.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm completely aware of their quandary |
| 14:29.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it's just too tempting to make some pun on it every now and then |
| 14:29.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 14:31.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | starting with a paradigm like "software is binary and can get copied and altered. So it must be free for the user to do that" is often oversimplifying |
| 14:32.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | it must be aliwed to make some comments tongue in cheek about the fringe cases |
| 14:32.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | allowed* |
| 14:34.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | but hey, RMS and FSF are evangelists, not lawyers. So they postulate commandments, not legal regulations, and we know commandments are not describing the reality but define an utopia to strive for |
| 14:35.59 | pabs3 | indeed |
| 14:36.35 | pabs3 | like "everyone will have personal manufacturing in their homes" |
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| 14:42.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd even dare to claim that any utopia is a deliberately oversimplified ideal concept that's sure to not work in real life |
| 14:43.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | somewhat resembling mathematical concepts like "infinity" et al, used to make a point |
| 14:45.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | just like there's no infinity to the max or to the min in real life, there never will be a world in reality that leaves a FSF completely happy |
| 14:47.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably there can be found logical evidence why it never can happen |
| 14:47.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing to strive for it |
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| 14:48.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | just for your own sanity you should judge your life by compliance to such rules |
| 14:49.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | RMS who probably does might be a very stressed guy |
| 14:50.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang! |
| 14:50.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | just for your own sanity you should NOT judge your life by compliance to such rules |
| 14:50.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ |
| 14:50.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | bbl |
| 15:09.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | it seems like 99.99..% of man-machine situations the user has a poor idea and for sure lacks the technical skills to modify the way the machine works internally. So freedom as in libre isn't about me personally being empowered to act with machines on such a level, but the whole crux is about securing my assets since I know when the original manufacturer bails out, there will be *somebody* who could pick up and continue to ensure I can |
| 15:09.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | make good use of what I invested time and possibly money into |
| 15:11.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | or in short: competition vs monopoly |
| 15:11.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | and about sustainability |
| 15:22.22 | pabs3 | indeed |
| 15:35.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | from this POV the distinction between hw and sw gets less relevant and finally vanishes. "Whatever it needs..." |
| 15:36.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | "... to allow somebody with sufficient skills to pick up and carry on, so my assets stay valuable and useful" |
| 15:39.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | At least that's what Neo900 UG will adhere to as a guideline |
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| 15:43.18 | *** topic/#neo900 is http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ and http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900 |
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| 15:43.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | as soon as hte updates in due time are not guaranteed anymore, the source MUST get disclosed |
| 15:46.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | for schematics this would mean they are fine with basic data as long as that basic data is sufficient to completely analyze the way the circuit works so you can make use of it, *AND* repair service is available at fair conditions. As soon as repair service vanishes, the data must be detailed enough to find own compatible parts for repair |
| 16:05.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway Neo900 UG will not provide any closed blob software, simply because we don't have access to any "secret knowledge" to start with, and the hw details will be more than sufficient to find repair parts from beginning, to make sure that data _will_ be available to all our customers |
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| 20:44.37 | useretail | hey guys, would it be possible for neo to support these cards: http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/01/sandisk-200gb-microsd-card/ |
| 20:49.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | useretail: should just work |
| 20:50.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | as long as the card still supports the (mandatory?) backward compatibility modes |
| 20:50.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | however I think 4 64GB cards to swap are way better |
| 20:50.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | for sure cheaper |
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| 21:55.09 | sixwheeledbeast | it will come as exFAT I guess. So possibly will need a reformat but I believe all SDXC should work? |
| 21:57.46 | Pali | only idiot can use exFAT as FS for data... |
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