| 00:00.57 | dos1 | what's the easiest way to shine the n900's ir led? :P |
| 00:04.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | ummm |
| 00:04.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | irreco? |
| 00:06.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno offhand if there's a /sys or /dev node |
| 00:07.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | tht would allow easy on/off control |
| 00:10.08 | dos1 | ok, those windows are fake |
| 00:10.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 00:10.31 | dos1 | for some reason my n900 blinks its IR diode... interesting |
| 00:10.41 | dos1 | however, I looked at it via camera of another n900 |
| 00:11.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | your N900 blinks its IR diode? duh! |
| 00:11.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | without lircd loaded? |
| 00:11.53 | dos1 | and I could still see the blinks via second, original window put to it |
| 00:12.01 | dos1 | while I couldn't via those fake ones |
| 00:12.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 00:12.21 | dos1 | well, dunno, second n900 doesn't blink |
| 00:12.47 | dos1 | no lircd |
| 00:12.51 | dos1 | weeeeird |
| 00:13.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 00:13.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | could you hold it in NOLO by pressing 'U' and see if it still blnks? |
| 00:14.11 | dos1 | should I connect usb cable? |
| 00:14.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | charger suffices |
| 00:14.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | only works when battery charged sufficiently for flashing |
| 00:15.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise NOLO won't stop even with 'U' held pressed |
| 00:15.13 | dos1 | hmm |
| 00:15.16 | dos1 | it stopped |
| 00:15.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | then it's some nasty process in maemo |
| 00:15.39 | dos1 | I wanted to shutdown, so I closed windows |
| 00:15.43 | dos1 | (browser + sms) |
| 00:15.50 | dos1 | and it stopped, without shutting down |
| 00:16.02 | dos1 | ah, no, it blinks again |
| 00:16.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | weeeeiiiiird |
| 00:16.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | stop processes one after the other? |
| 00:16.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | sigstop |
| 00:18.10 | dos1 | ah |
| 00:18.18 | dos1 | it starts blinking when phone is locked |
| 00:18.23 | dos1 | stops when it's unlocked |
| 00:18.37 | dos1 | guess I have to do it via ssh |
| 00:19.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's damn nasty |
| 00:19.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | who knows whether phone is locked or not? mce |
| 00:21.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder who sneaked in that virus into maemo-extras(-devel) |
| 00:21.41 | dos1 | hey |
| 00:21.52 | dos1 | could it be related to blinking kbd lights in r&d mode? |
| 00:22.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hardly |
| 00:22.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | blinkenlights of R&D are strictly hw |
| 00:22.18 | dos1 | I have those lights enabled on this one |
| 00:22.36 | dos1 | hmm |
| 00:22.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | but who knows what else they patched into kernel |
| 00:23.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | *maybe* they got console on IR when in R&D? They stole my idea ;-P |
| 00:24.07 | dos1 | hehe |
| 00:24.10 | dos1 | I think that's it |
| 00:24.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | try `while :; do logger blablabla; done` |
| 00:24.18 | dos1 | IR light seems to be correlated with kbd lights |
| 00:24.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | though that wouldn't be kernel level, right? |
| 00:26.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | now if only you had a IR sensitive photodiode to build a IR-RX-serial ;-) |
| 00:26.37 | dos1 | it stops on activity |
| 00:26.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | which activity? |
| 00:26.52 | dos1 | while :; do logger blablabla; done made it go dark until I did ctrl+c |
| 00:27.02 | dos1 | the same with "echo blablabla" instead of logger |
| 00:27.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm |
| 00:27.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | root? |
| 00:27.27 | dos1 | while both kbd lights went constant on |
| 00:28.18 | dos1 | it basically blinks every time right kbd light blinks |
| 00:28.27 | dos1 | but doesn't stay on if kbd light stays on longer |
| 00:28.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm |
| 00:29.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | disable R&D |
| 00:29.42 | *** join/#neo900 Oksana (~chatzilla@Maemo/community/council/Wikiwide) |
| 00:31.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | would be interesting to check kernel sources where they access the IR LED |
| 00:32.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I would bet a few cent on freq-governor |
| 00:33.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | or smart-reflex |
| 00:33.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and maybe another few cent on the scheduler |
| 00:41.05 | dos1 | crap, still blinking in production mode |
| 00:41.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's nasty |
| 00:42.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | so kill / stop mce, and then all userland processes |
| 00:42.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | or reflash to stock |
| 00:42.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | but make a full backup first, for forensics |
| 00:43.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | also make sure no powerkernel tries loading funny modules |
| 00:45.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe see if it blinks in bootmenu/backupmenu |
| 00:45.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | not many other processes sztarted at that time yet |
| 00:45.37 | dos1 | doesn't blink until fully booted and starts idling |
| 00:45.55 | dos1 | and still only when it's locked |
| 00:46.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmpf |
| 00:46.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | try backupmenu |
| 00:47.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's idling there too |
| 00:48.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | powerkernel? |
| 00:48.50 | dos1 | yup, 2.6.28.10-power53' |
| 00:48.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmm |
| 00:50.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | check if powerkernel creates an IR node in /dev |
| 00:51.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I wonder what interface lircd is using |
| 00:52.00 | dos1 | dunno, nothing obvious like /dev/ir :P |
| 00:52.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, but there must be *some* interface, right? |
| 00:53.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean lircd is userland, not a kernel module |
| 00:54.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I tried finding something *pwm* but no dice |
| 00:54.39 | ds2 | i thought the IR stuff is routed via a UART |
| 00:54.42 | dos1 | oh, downloads.maemo.nokia.com is kaput |
| 00:54.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ds2: not on N900 |
| 00:55.08 | ds2 | Nokia didn't use the IR modes on the UART? |
| 00:55.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, kaput and dead |
| 00:55.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ds2: nope |
| 00:55.34 | dos1 | since when? |
| 00:55.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, at least 2 weks |
| 00:55.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | weeks |
| 00:56.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2015/04/16/plasma-desktopQd1901.png |
| 00:58.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ds2: the IR UART is UART3 and nokia doesn't officially use UART3 - inofficially (not in schematics) UART3 is debug port on testpoints under battery |
| 00:59.03 | dos1 | dammit, I can't instlal dependences for backupmenu |
| 00:59.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | sucks! |
| 01:00.03 | ds2 | bah |
| 01:00.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ds2: Neo900 has a full fledged set of exploits on UART3 ;-) |
| 01:01.31 | wpwrak | having "dos1" and "ds2" is kinda confusing ;-) |
| 01:01.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe, not here, they got different hash and thus different color |
| 01:02.16 | wpwrak | ah, austere color scheme here :) |
| 01:03.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2015/04/16/plasma-desktopMQ1901.png |
| 01:03.19 | wpwrak | of course, if it was for me, the we hack on black-and-white screens today, but probably at 16K or such :) |
| 01:03.44 | wpwrak | #s/we/we'd/ |
| 01:04.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | you don't need to worry about s/, it's disabled since long |
| 01:04.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;) |
| 01:04.33 | wpwrak | oh, great ! |
| 01:07.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway it's sort of funny how IR light excites the *blue* sensors in camera. 1st harmonic I guess |
| 01:08.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | dnag, I once knew how IR led is controlled, aka what's the API/interface |
| 01:13.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:13.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:18.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | Module Size Used by |
| 01:18.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | lirc_rx51 6592 0 |
| 01:18.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | lirc_dev 10524 1 lirc_rx51 |
| 01:18.07 | *** join/#neo900 Humpelstilzchen (erik@f050166044.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 01:18.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:/sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch# ll /dev/lirc* |
| 01:18.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | crw-rw---- 1 root video 246, 0 2015-04-16 03:17 /dev/lirc0 |
| 01:18.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | srw-rw-rw- 1 root root 0 2015-04-16 03:17 /dev/lircd |
| 01:18.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | after `/etc/init.d/lirc start` |
| 01:20.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's a "s" device? |
| 01:21.05 | dos1 | I don't have lirc modules loaded |
| 01:21.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | after `/etc/init.d/lirc start` |
| 01:21.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/6b70217809 |
| 01:21.50 | dos1 | and no lircd installed at all |
| 01:22.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually `/etc/init.d/lirc start` is what irreco does on app startup |
| 01:23.02 | dos1 | doesn't exist on my n900 |
| 01:24.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | comes with irreco |
| 01:25.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | so lirc indeed *is* (or has) a kernel module ;-) |
| 01:26.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I'd not be too surprised when KP would ship its own lirc_dev or similar IR kernel module, and that might go havoc |
| 01:26.59 | ds2 | media/rc |
| 01:27.13 | ds2 | that seems to be where lirc lives in the kernel |
| 01:27.41 | *** join/#neo900 trx (~ns-team@devbin/founder/trx) |
| 01:29.17 | dos1 | that blinking n900 runs power kernel |
| 01:29.26 | dos1 | two other n900s run stock kernel and don't blink |
| 01:29.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | see ^^^ |
| 01:29.43 | dos1 | no lircd installed, no lirc modules loaded |
| 01:29.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | see ^^^ |
| 01:30.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>... or similar IR kernel module ....<< |
| 01:30.17 | dos1 | though I still can't say for sure that it's not something in userspace |
| 01:30.41 | dos1 | tomorrow I'll try to run power kernel on some other n900 and see |
| 01:30.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 01:31.06 | dos1 | sadly, stock won't work with thumb, so I can't check the other way around |
| 01:31.43 | dos1 | hmm |
| 01:31.48 | dos1 | ah, it's not thumb |
| 01:31.50 | dos1 | it's testing |
| 01:32.28 | dos1 | ok, we'll see |
| 01:33.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | filename: /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1/lirc_rx51.ko |
| 01:33.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | license: GPL |
| 01:33.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | author: Nokia Corporation |
| 01:33.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | description: LIRC TX driver for Nokia RX51 |
| 01:33.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | srcversion: F828995EF129F53568A6D33 |
| 01:33.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends: lirc_dev |
| 01:34.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | modinfo lirc_rx51 |
| 01:34.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and modinfo lirc_dev |
| 01:35.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: ^^^ |
| 01:37.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | also lsmod|grep ir |
| 01:38.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | when it's userland, it hardly canmess with IR LED when lirc_rx51 isn't loaded |
| 01:43.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway even with lirc_rx51 and lirc_dev modules loaded, my N900 doesn't blick IR LED |
| 01:57.41 | dos1 | modinfo shows the same stuff |
| 01:57.46 | dos1 | no ir related module is loaded |
| 01:59.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | hen it's kernel |
| 01:59.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | then* |
| 01:59.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wouldn't see a way for a userland app to make IR LED flash without lirc_rx51 module loaded |
| 02:00.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | some funny hacker thought it's a useful indicator for +whatever* |
| 02:00.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | not considering that it eats battery |
| 02:01.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | KP I bet bucks now, not only cents |
| 02:01.55 | dos1 | I should have KP already installed on some other n900 |
| 02:02.02 | dos1 | but which one? :D |
| 02:02.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe, I know I don't |
| 02:02.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | never +really* trusted that kernel. Now I have a reason why |
| 02:02.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | one more reason |
| 02:03.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I2C fsckup was another one, though that got fixed after I blamed the nasty bug |
| 02:04.45 | dos1 | btw. white kbd frame looks funny in the dark - leaks light |
| 02:05.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, not locking a hw interface for a serial data transmission, how leete is *that*? |
| 02:06.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | for those casual readers not understanding what I talk about: it's about as evil as not locking your line priter for completing one job before starting another one |
| 02:07.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | just that in this case it's not paper but chips that might get wasted |
| 02:07.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, there _are_ chips on N900 I2C bus that might get damaged by sending garbled data to them |
| 02:09.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | so not locking I2C interface during the time the driver does a transmission is exactly what you get when hackers without a clue of hardware mess with kerbel device drivers |
| 02:09.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | kernel* |
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| 16:04.00 | Vegeshite_mite | so will the neo900 have a modular cpu board design like the dragonbox-pyra/raspberry pi2? |
| 16:04.15 | Vegeshite_mite | for future proofing |
| 16:07.08 | Vegeshite_mite | or is the xpu board fixed |
| 16:07.20 | Vegeshite_mite | ie non upgradeable |
| 16:10.21 | Vegeshite_mite | anybody |
| 16:12.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pyra has no "modular CPU" in that sense. What Pyra does is using a soldered into place OMAP5 module that comes with a few external components like capacitors, clocks etc, but that doesn't change nature of the product, you still can't change the CPU module |
| 16:13.18 | Vegeshite_mite | huh? |
| 16:13.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither has Neo900 |
| 16:15.24 | Vegeshite_mite | the nature of the cpu module is that it is a module with a cpu on it... this allows the pyra to have future cpu upgrades |
| 16:15.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | the reason for Pyra to use OMAP5 module is simply that TI doesn't sell the OMAP5 chip to aftermarkets in low quanties, they obviously don't trust in small companies - without help by a TI field engineer at location for a few months - being able to bring up a working OMAP5 design |
| 16:16.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, this rationale applies to a module just 100% identical like to a chip |
| 16:17.45 | Vegeshite_mite | lol what... i guess the answer is no the neo900 doesnt have a modularized cpu board unlike pyra's daughterboard or pi2's compute module |
| 16:18.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | when there will be a new better OMAP5 module that's drop in compatible whith what Pyra uses, then production(!) can use the new module instead the recent one. Same applies for a better OMAP3 chip and the DM3730 used in Neo900 |
| 16:18.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway sorry but nope, Neo900 is not modular |
| 16:18.58 | Vegeshite_mite | yeah but then users would have to pay for an entirely new board |
| 16:19.04 | Vegeshite_mite | ok |
| 16:19.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, and same applies to Pyra |
| 16:19.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | user can NOT change the CPU in Pyra |
| 16:19.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | no way |
| 16:19.46 | wpwrak | Vegeshite_mite: modularity at this level is basically infeasible. just don't get mislead by the press - project Ara is not about making a real-life phone :) |
| 16:21.54 | Vegeshite_mite | never heard of ara but from what i hear the pyras been dezigned so thst non-omap chips can also be sropped in in the future an option |
| 16:22.49 | Vegeshite_mite | in fact im pretty sure the pi2's bcm2836 sodimm board xould be adapted to run in tge pyra's main board |
| 16:23.32 | wpwrak | well, in a way you could say something similar about the neo900 if you *really* wanted to: it has two principal boards, so you could replace the one with the CPU (and many other things) |
| 16:23.45 | wpwrak | but then, that's not very likely to make sense |
| 16:23.54 | Vegeshite_mite | it has 2 boards? |
| 16:24.40 | wpwrak | and the same should apply to the pyra, too (don't know much about it, but that's about the best modularity you can get without doing stupid things) |
| 16:24.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, see the very fine video deonstrating the original idea |
| 16:25.37 | Vegeshite_mite | aorrt cant watch videos currently at work |
| 16:25.55 | Vegeshite_mite | is there a forum post/schems |
| 16:27.38 | Vegeshite_mite | isnt pyra using a cortex a15 by the way |
| 16:28.21 | bencoh | yes, they are |
| 16:28.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the CPU in the SoC |
| 16:28.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | they use a TI OMAP5 |
| 16:28.49 | Vegeshite_mite | thats pretty top of the line for a community project/... |
| 16:29.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's Pyra a community project? |
| 16:29.35 | Vegeshite_mite | well they have donations... |
| 16:29.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | err |
| 16:29.51 | Vegeshite_mite | at the pyra forum... |
| 16:30.14 | Vegeshite_mite | which is the *community* |
| 16:30.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, please ask on #dragonbox-pyra |
| 16:31.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | while Pyra is sort of our "sister project" we're not really competent to answer any questions relating to Pyra |
| 16:32.21 | Vegeshite_mite | ok is there a link that has a pic of neo900's boards |
| 16:34.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | there must be pics in talk.maemo.org main thread. Sorry I don't have a link at hand right now |
| 16:34.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | NB the boards don't even exist yet in their final form, we're still in R&D phase |
| 16:35.01 | Vegeshite_mite | it would be nice to see that sister project thing manifest itself in hardware... ie a modularized compute module... that way you have more swappability in case theres a hickup in produxtion |
| 16:35.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | please reread what wpwrak and me explained above |
| 16:35.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no such module in Pyra either |
| 16:36.10 | Vegeshite_mite | so you could just call ed and say hey our chips are backlogged can you guys send us 500 modules xd |
| 16:36.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope we can't since Neo900 is based on OMAP3, nit OMAP5. For some very sound reasons |
| 16:37.01 | Vegeshite_mite | just saying use the same daughterboard... |
| 16:37.08 | Vegeshite_mite | oh |
| 16:37.17 | Vegeshite_mite | what reasons |
| 16:37.55 | Vegeshite_mite | software? |
| 16:38.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | first of all the OMAP5 doesn't fir into N900 case and we want to build a device that's compatible to N900 on software level too |
| 16:38.14 | Vegeshite_mite | i think pandora's also omap 3 no? |
| 16:38.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 16:38.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pandora (new) has exactly same DM3730 |
| 16:38.43 | wpwrak | and modularized = you make the overall design several times more complex. so it will not allow you to easily dodge problems. and you won't save money. also, in a mobile phone upgrading one thing while keeping all the rest is usually not very attractive |
| 16:38.47 | Vegeshite_mite | how big is omap5? |
| 16:39.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | too big for Neo900 |
| 16:39.41 | Vegeshite_mite | wprak yes but neo900 is no ordibary phone.. it isnt being buikt for the general phone ,arket |
| 16:39.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry afk, hedache and busy |
| 16:40.46 | Vegeshite_mite | wpwrak wouldnt it allow for the testing of the omap chip separate from wveryting elss |
| 16:41.08 | wpwrak | Vegeshite_mite: yes, but we still want it to be somewhat affordable ;-) you get modular systems where you either have a HUGE volume (PC) so you can do whatever you want, or where each item is incredibly expensive, so you keep them forever. like those shops that still have PDP-11s :) |
| 16:41.33 | wpwrak | we're pretty much doing that. but that's in R&D, not in the final product |
| 16:42.22 | Vegeshite_mite | why not judt keep it... if some people get a bad cpu they can just send back the cpu and not the whole unit |
| 16:42.52 | wpwrak | also, in R&D we can have something that would need a large bag to carry around, while that wouldn't be so appealing for the product |
| 16:43.47 | wpwrak | err, R&D = beagle board xM + external power supply + Neo900-specific interface boards + delicate cabling between them :) |
| 16:44.16 | wpwrak | that's the stuff that thrives in the lab, but dies very quickly outside it ;-) |
| 16:44.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | look, our CPU has a 515 ball/pin 0.4mm pitch BGA footprint. A socket for such stuff is about as large as the whole Neo900 and costs up to 1000 bucks |
| 16:44.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | still want "modularity"? |
| 16:45.37 | Vegeshite_mite | hmmm |
| 16:46.03 | Vegeshite_mite | it isnt thst big w/ the pyra |
| 16:46.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | SNCE PYRA HAS NO MODULAR CPU |
| 16:46.24 | Vegeshite_mite | maybe buy one from ed and play around with it |
| 16:46.39 | Vegeshite_mite | no the daughterboard |
| 16:46.48 | Vegeshite_mite | with the soc on it |
| 16:47.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | show me that daughterboard! |
| 16:51.03 | wpwrak | pyra is ~341 ccm while neo900 will be about 146 ccm |
| 16:51.04 | *** join/#neo900 paulk-collins (~paulk@gagarine.paulk.fr) |
| 16:52.16 | wpwrak | if modularity is of utmost importance, consider nano-ITX or whatever they call them now, and a nice car battery ;-) |
| 16:53.00 | wpwrak | bonus feature: you'll have more muscles than schwarzenegger in no time ;-) |
| 16:53.58 | x29a | däd ihs imphosibal |
| 16:54.50 | Vegeshite_mite | boards.openpandora.org/topic/16746-populated-mainboards/ |
| 16:55.05 | wpwrak | that may actually be a market niche: the "workout" phone. 10 kg / 20 lbs. watch the ladies faint when you elegantly pull it from your .. hmm .. scabbard ? :) |
| 16:56.46 | Vegeshite_mite | well have younguys seen these : https://www.raspberrypi.org/tyfone-a-diy-smartphone/ and https://sailpi.wordpress.com/ |
| 16:57.42 | Vegeshite_mite | they managed to make a smart phone out of a pi... so its notbthat bad in terms of bulkiness |
| 16:57.56 | Vegeshite_mite | one even runs sailfishos |
| 16:59.28 | Vegeshite_mite | and those were built not with a custom made pcb for the compute module either... those are the standard off the shelf raspberry pis w/ ethernet and all xd |
| 16:59.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | please keep in mind that we're restricted to a already defined rather small case, and even your "doughterboard" in Pyra is actually almost identical in both size and holding 1/3 of components of our UPPER PCB |
| 16:59.49 | wpwrak | ah, but he says "not a complete smart phone" :) i think you were looking for this project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyUrGfHt2qM |
| 16:59.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | that "daugtherboard" wouldn't even fit into N900 case |
| 17:00.15 | ds2 | *yaw* |
| 17:00.20 | ds2 | *yawn* |
| 17:03.32 | Vegeshite_mite | make a *bigger* case ... i always felt the n900's keyboard was a bit too compact |
| 17:03.36 | Vegeshite_mite | xd |
| 17:03.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | we have sound reasons why Neo900 looks like it does. When Pyra has all the features you prefer then why not going for a Pyra instead of trying to turn Neo900 into a Pyra-too |
| 17:04.22 | wpwrak | i guess we could bolt a nice 10" screen on a HHKB. fill the empty space with the rest. that ought to work nicely ;-) |
| 17:04.46 | Vegeshite_mite | because pyra isnt a phone... not in this iteration anyways... not untill the have a secondary screen on the other half of a top half |
| 17:05.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | then please try to talk *then* into getting those missing features. Neo900 design is finalized |
| 17:05.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | *them* |
| 17:05.44 | Vegeshite_mite | its an ultraportable that has telephony capabilities but at tgis point using it as a main phone beings baxk memories of ngage style taco talking |
| 17:06.08 | ds2 | the Neo900 form factor works |
| 17:06.46 | ds2 | I have done a tablet before using the BBC and it just doesn't work well in the physical sense |
| 17:07.05 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: just waiting for someone to ask for a 19" rack-mountable version of neo900 ;-) |
| 17:07.10 | ds2 | so unless you have modeled it.... |
| 17:07.36 | ds2 | wpwrak: IIRC - some has done a OMAP3 based 19" rackable thing... |
| 17:07.44 | ds2 | someoen |
| 17:07.46 | Vegeshite_mite | yea the n900 form factor is nice but would be nice to have a jolla toh sized keyboard |
| 17:07.49 | ds2 | someone |
| 17:08.12 | wpwrak | hah, we already have a proof of concept then ! showing that it IS possible to put small things into big racks ;-) |
| 17:08.19 | ds2 | would be nice is to have things in a N800 formfactor ;) |
| 17:08.40 | Vegeshite_mite | the n900's keyboard was always too small imo |
| 17:09.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you can get N810 cases and displays and touchpanels and stuff in quantities, we can consider doing that |
| 17:09.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | still a huge problem with antennas but that *might* be manageable |
| 17:09.59 | ds2 | the N800 will always be my favorite |
| 17:10.04 | Vegeshite_mite | so since its an omap3 you could run pandora's pvr drivers? |
| 17:10.17 | ds2 | DocScrutinizer05: are they flex or ceramic antennas? |
| 17:10.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | which ones? |
| 17:10.38 | ds2 | the ones you have a huge problem with |
| 17:10.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | the ones I have a huge problem with are the non-existing ones |
| 17:11.04 | bencoh | Vegeshite_mite: we have pvr drivers for n900 and n9 |
| 17:11.29 | ds2 | blah |
| 17:11.29 | Vegeshite_mite | is it the same sgx as in omap3 |
| 17:11.30 | bencoh | (and hoping the pvr in neo900 isnt too different) |
| 17:11.38 | bencoh | they're both omap3 |
| 17:11.45 | bencoh | well, the three of them :) |
| 17:12.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: N9 has same SoC as Neo900 |
| 17:12.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ergo same PVR |
| 17:12.24 | Vegeshite_mite | well apparently it is in the new omap ... but since pandora's kernel's open u shouldnt have any issues |
| 17:12.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | PVR drivers are not kernel land |
| 17:13.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | the problematic stuff are the libs |
| 17:14.09 | Vegeshite_mite | well the entire pandora os is open no |
| 17:14.22 | ds2 | no. |
| 17:15.19 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: hmmm ... iirc we checked and it was a different model/revision or something ? |
| 17:15.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, it's HS version, we use GP version |
| 17:16.01 | bencoh | n9 has a 3630 |
| 17:16.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | the PVR should be identical |
| 17:16.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | 3630 = HS, 3730 = GP |
| 17:17.03 | bencoh | oh, okay :) |
| 17:17.31 | bencoh | http://pandorawiki.org/SGX_drivers has some info regarding this |
| 17:17.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | same for N900 vs BB, Pandora(old): 3430 = HS, 3530 = GP |
| 17:17.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | err other way round |
| 17:18.14 | Vegeshite_mite | https://github.com/openpandora/meta-openpandora |
| 17:18.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | err not |
| 17:21.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: thanks, useful link :-) |
| 17:24.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: regarding SGX versions, I doubt TI would inroduce "regressions" in new GFX cores that would render old drivers incompatible |
| 17:25.12 | bencoh | dunno ... we'll see :) |
| 17:25.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually it's just new cores introducing new additional features and fixing SiErr |
| 17:26.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless a workaround in an old driver *depends* on a SiErr being around, old drivers should work on new chip revisions |
| 17:27.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't say for sure since there's no docs available for the PVR, which is where the problem actually starts. But what I said above is based on best common practice seen everywhere in industry |
| 17:38.00 | freemangordon | and even then, we still have drivers made esp for the rev in DM3730 |
| 17:39.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang! "hibernate (suspend to disk)" fals on my PC/KDE - lcoks screen instead :-( |
| 17:39.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | locks* |
| 17:40.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi freemangordon! |
| 17:40.23 | freemangordon | hi! |
| 17:41.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ bbl |
| 17:41.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | got a UPS to hook up to PC |
| 17:42.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | which means shut down the PC for that |
| 17:42.52 | freemangordon | yay http://pastebin.com/JSvH9SHL |
| 17:46.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 17:59.26 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: backup900 ? |
| 17:59.34 | bencoh | (the UPS) |
| 17:59.47 | *** join/#neo900 dal2 (~ubuntu@customer.tigerbackbone.com) |
| 17:59.52 | bencoh | s/backup/backups/ |
| 18:00.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | FPS2000 |
| 18:00.07 | bencoh | oh |
| 18:00.14 | bencoh | we'll see how good it is I guess :) |
| 18:00.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | stinks. (lizerally) - otherwise so far it's not looking particularly bad |
| 18:01.17 | bencoh | :)) |
| 18:01.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | FSP |
| 18:02.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | the "manual" is a joke, but then otoh it's basically almost useless for "good" UPS as well |
| 18:03.32 | Vegeshite_mite | well actually the pyra guys are having a hell of a time from what ive heard with the move from omap3 to 5's pvr... driver wise... as u said since its all closed... |
| 18:04.51 | Vegeshite_mite | speaking of which are there any socs out there with full mesa3d/ogl support or is it all ogles |
| 18:04.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | tried NUT, gave up, installed ViewPower which sort of works |
| 18:07.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the USB link of UPS, linux doing a endless loop on detecting a USB HID http://privatepaste.com/c0946f21f0 - so I gave up on that as well and connected the UPS with serial<->USB adapter |
| 18:08.18 | ds2 | yes |
| 18:08.34 | ds2 | quite a few |
| 18:08.46 | *** part/#neo900 Vegeshite_mite (~farknfart@1.9.99.247) |
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| 20:54.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: all ok? |
| 20:54.19 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 20:54.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 20:54.41 | freemangordon | I am trying to inject n9 xloader code in bb xloader |
| 20:54.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I gonna unplug the HDMI cable I attached, it's useless anyway |
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| 22:29.14 | dos1 | DocScrutinizer05: my old n900 with cssu-thumb doesn't blink (it has lircd and irreco installed though) |
| 22:29.33 | dos1 | modprobe lirc_rx51 on blinking n900 doesn't stop blinking |
| 22:31.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | reflash it to stock |
| 22:32.14 | dos1 | nah, I want to figure it out |
| 22:34.33 | dos1 | that thumb one has kernel power 52, blinkin one has 53 |
| 23:04.47 | ds2 | wheeeeee light swap worked! |
| 23:14.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | light swap isn't really complicated. When you are lucky and don't break the main flex connector |
| 23:17.21 | ds2 | i suspect the call to replace all the screws has more to do with making sure the right loctite is on there then anything else |
| 23:24.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | no loctite on screws. It's about making sure they are fresh and unworn |
| 23:32.44 | ds2 | there is loctite on the glue |
| 23:32.49 | ds2 | both units had it |
| 23:33.26 | ds2 | that blue dot on the screws threads is it |
| 23:35.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | never seen it so far |
| 23:35.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe I didn't look |
| 23:35.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | when there's a blue dot then yes, of course that's loc |
| 23:36.23 | ds2 | what's odd is of the 8 screws I took out, only 6 had them |
| 23:36.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 23:37.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | that might exlain why I never noticed it, maybe my screws rarely ever had any |
| 23:37.08 | ds2 | problem is one of the units was bought used from amazon and the screen bezel is loose suggesting someone previously had done something already |
| 23:37.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah |
| 23:39.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway Nokia N900 service manual doesn't mention any loctite. So either some rework been done or the screws Nokia recommends already come with some sort of lock varnish, though I dunno how that would work when it's on screw for months or years before mounting the screw |
| 23:40.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | or some of their factories used loctite and yet they didn't think it's a good idea to recommend it in service manual |
| 23:58.59 | ds2 | it looks like the type that comes with the screws |
| 23:59.17 | ds2 | you can easily order them with loctite if you look for them |
