| 00:09.10 | *** join/#neo900 vakkov (~vakkov@s3n106.brunel.ac.uk) |
| 01:17.18 | *** join/#neo900 vakkov (~vakkov@s3n106.brunel.ac.uk) |
| 01:17.35 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@65.76.93.92.rev.sfr.net) |
| 01:25.46 | *** join/#neo900 illwieckz (~illwieckz@AToulon-256-1-183-25.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 01:26.14 | *** join/#neo900 illwieckz_ (~illwieckz@AToulon-256-1-183-25.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 01:26.56 | *** join/#neo900 vakkov (~vakkov@s3n106.brunel.ac.uk) |
| 01:42.59 | *** join/#neo900 Humpelstilzchen (erik@f054187110.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 01:48.11 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@65.76.93.92.rev.sfr.net) |
| 02:00.57 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@65.76.93.92.rev.sfr.net) |
| 02:34.00 | *** join/#neo900 vakkov (~vakkov@s3n106.brunel.ac.uk) |
| 03:11.48 | *** join/#neo900 illwieckz_ (~illwieckz@AToulon-256-1-183-25.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 03:13.36 | *** join/#neo900 illwieckz (~illwieckz@AToulon-256-1-183-25.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 05:26.00 | *** join/#neo900 specing_ (~specing@unaffiliated/specing) |
| 06:02.12 | *** join/#neo900 lobito (~lobito@190.177.231.207) |
| 06:04.09 | *** join/#neo900 Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 06:13.04 | *** join/#neo900 lobito (~lobito@190.177.231.207) |
| 06:33.08 | *** join/#neo900 lobito (~lobito@190.177.231.207) |
| 07:23.35 | *** join/#neo900 mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@unaffiliated/mvaenskae) |
| 07:38.37 | *** join/#neo900 mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@unaffiliated/mvaenskae) |
| 07:45.54 | *** join/#neo900 infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 07:45.54 | *** topic/#neo900 is http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ and http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900 |
| 07:45.54 | *** mode/#neo900 [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 08:36.13 | *** join/#neo900 mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@unaffiliated/mvaenskae) |
| 09:40.17 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik_ (~quassel@147.99.221.235) |
| 10:13.07 | *** join/#neo900 vakkov (~vakkov@s3n104.brunel.ac.uk) |
| 10:25.37 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik__ (~quassel@65.76.93.92.rev.sfr.net) |
| 10:29.42 | *** join/#neo900 trx (ns-team@188.2.94.131) |
| 10:29.42 | *** join/#neo900 trx (ns-team@devbin/founder/trx) |
| 10:31.11 | *** join/#neo900 _whitelogger (whitelogge@fehu.whitequark.org) |
| 10:31.11 | *** mode/#neo900 [+v _whitelogger] by ChanServ |
| 10:31.52 | *** join/#neo900 Wizzup (~Wizzup@a82-161-36-93.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 10:33.00 | *** join/#neo900 brolin_empey (~brolin@66.199.140.123) |
| 10:34.01 | *** join/#neo900 ShadowJK (~jk@212.7.198.194) |
| 10:36.07 | *** join/#neo900 _whitelogger (whitelogge@fehu.whitequark.org) |
| 10:36.07 | *** mode/#neo900 [+v _whitelogger] by ChanServ |
| 10:36.47 | *** join/#neo900 raccoon_ (~user@meta.wtf) |
| 10:45.49 | *** join/#neo900 arossdotme (~zxy@79-69-198-143.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 10:54.28 | *** join/#neo900 mva (mva@gentoo/contributor/mva) |
| 10:54.39 | *** join/#neo900 vakkov (~vakkov@134.83.207.19) |
| 11:13.44 | *** join/#neo900 mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@unaffiliated/mvaenskae) |
| 11:39.55 | *** join/#neo900 mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@unaffiliated/mvaenskae) |
| 11:40.30 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@147.99.221.235) |
| 12:27.22 | *** join/#neo900 mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@unaffiliated/mvaenskae) |
| 13:06.52 | *** join/#neo900 rjeffries (~rjeffries@pool-108-40-199-126.snloca.fios.verizon.net) |
| 14:37.34 | *** join/#neo900 xes_ (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 14:52.15 | *** join/#neo900 xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 14:52.56 | *** join/#neo900 che11 (~che@g134.tum.vpn.lrz.de) |
| 15:29.59 | *** join/#neo900 Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 15:31.23 | *** join/#neo900 vakkov (~vakkov@s3n104.brunel.ac.uk) |
| 15:43.49 | *** join/#neo900 jonsger (~Thunderbi@x5f739205.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 15:49.26 | *** join/#neo900 ruukasu (~ruukasu@unaffiliated/ruukasu) |
| 16:22.36 | *** join/#neo900 che11 (~che@p5B0716BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:39.41 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@147.99.221.235) |
| 16:41.26 | Wizzup | DocScrutinizer51: hiya, I have all the cables etc ready for my charging while in hostmode test, but I'm not sure what exact program I should use. I have the h-e-n, and something with the same icon named "USB mode" |
| 16:41.46 | Wizzup | the links you have me mention a charger script, but that is a 404 |
| 16:41.58 | Wizzup | you mentioned that "Pali's GUI" could do it, but I don't know what that one is |
| 16:45.54 | Wizzup | re-reads posts |
| 16:46.05 | Wizzup | they seem to contain some contradicting info I think |
| 16:46.12 | Wizzup | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=907080#post907080 I mean |
| 16:46.27 | Wizzup | one of them suggests to add the external charger at the last moment |
| 16:46.33 | Wizzup | the other one says you can keep it plugged in all the time |
| 16:49.22 | Wizzup | ah--the actual post contains the script |
| 17:16.55 | *** join/#neo900 mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@unaffiliated/mvaenskae) |
| 17:34.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | didn't you mention a "host with charging" option in one of your GUIs you use? |
| 17:34.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | that should do |
| 17:35.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc one of the last additions Moh made to H-E-N GUI was to allow charging-hostmode |
| 17:35.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~hostmode-charging |
| 17:35.36 | infobot | hostmode-powered is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203 |
| 17:42.45 | *** join/#neo900 vakkov (~vakkov@s3n104.brunel.ac.uk) |
| 17:48.47 | *** join/#neo900 arcean (~arcean@nat1.finemedia.pl) |
| 17:55.03 | Wizzup | I managed! |
| 17:55.13 | Wizzup | I just had to plug in the charger after I selected the mode |
| 18:01.36 | *** join/#neo900 paulk-collins (~paulk@gagarine.paulk.fr) |
| 18:03.55 | *** join/#neo900 vakkov (~vakkov@s3n104.brunel.ac.uk) |
| 18:30.30 | *** join/#neo900 ac (~ac@2001:910:113f:1:56ee:75ff:fe00:97ac) |
| 18:30.36 | ac | hello |
| 18:32.57 | ac_laptop | I would like some details about the modem choice on the down payment page |
| 18:33.15 | ac_laptop | does LTE include utms or not ? |
| 18:45.40 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@65.76.93.92.rev.sfr.net) |
| 18:48.10 | *** join/#neo900 arcean (~arcean@nat1.finemedia.pl) |
| 18:51.16 | ac_laptop | ok it does, but does the lte europe chip provides utms worldwide ? |
| 19:14.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas not |
| 19:14.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | the LTE modems are not very much "roaming"-affine |
| 19:17.56 | *** join/#neo900 vakkov (~vakkov@s3n104.brunel.ac.uk) |
| 19:18.45 | *** join/#neo900 mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@178-83-8-210.dynamic.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:23.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | urgent service downtime warning from our server hoster: >> Start: 13. Mai 2015 20:00:00 CEST Ende: 13. Mai 2015 23:59:00 CEST (voraussichtlich)<< Duration: "probably a few minutes" |
| 19:28.27 | *** join/#neo900 heinrich5991 (~hein5991@unaffiliated/heinrich5991) |
| 19:33.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ac_laptop: please see http://neo900.org/faq#networks http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93095 and particularly the resources linked in post #18 there http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1423824#post1423824 |
| 19:41.13 | *** join/#neo900 Wizzup (~Wizzup@a82-161-36-93.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 19:41.32 | *** join/#neo900 sparetire_ (~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire) |
| 19:51.59 | *** join/#neo900 sno__ (~user@cpc67975-seac24-2-0-cust732.7-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 19:52.04 | sno__ | awesome |
| 19:52.14 | ac_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: ok, thanks |
| 19:52.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ac_laptop: very welcome |
| 19:52.33 | sno__ | Any news on then you expect to release just the complete board |
| 19:52.42 | sno__ | no need for the shell as i have plenty of those |
| 19:52.48 | sno__ | then = when |
| 19:52.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope for this year |
| 19:53.06 | sno__ | thats really great news |
| 19:53.12 | sno__ | i am ready to buy right away |
| 19:53.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | but generally the usual applies: "it's ready when it's done" |
| 19:53.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 19:53.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | you know Murphy's law, do you? :-) |
| 19:54.33 | bencoh | hush, dont summon murphy |
| 19:54.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | on the bright side: we now have a pretty good idea down to the last chip how the device shall look like |
| 19:54.51 | sno__ | http://i57.tinypic.com/zuqq1l.jpg I took one of the new n900's home today, i really like the keyboard and I can't wait to drop in the finished main board |
| 19:55.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 19:56.13 | sno__ | I no longer use the 5s or even upgrade my main phone anymore due to privacy concerns, using an old nokia for now until neo 900 |
| 19:56.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | We appreciate every single DIY modder, since the N900 are one of the hardest parts to source |
| 19:56.42 | sno__ | I have 8 n900's lying around |
| 19:56.49 | sno__ | all in new condition |
| 19:57.23 | sno__ | my business repairs phones, so I collect many of them over the years |
| 19:57.31 | sno__ | all obsolete so they are sat collecting dust |
| 19:57.48 | sno__ | until I found out about your project I quickly put them to one side after that |
| 19:57.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | we *could* go build our own mech parts (particularly slider mechanism) but that only gets into reach for a few 1000s |
| 19:58.07 | sno__ | the slider mech was one of the common failure points |
| 19:58.18 | sno__ | I used to repair them about 6 years ago :D |
| 19:58.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | Ohh? |
| 19:58.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | what happened to the slider? |
| 19:58.50 | sno__ | dust or debris would get down the back of the phones and then grind away at the flex cable |
| 19:58.55 | sno__ | eventually the lcd would stop working |
| 19:59.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think it could go wobbly but harly breaks |
| 19:59.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, the FLEX is a completely different story |
| 19:59.38 | sno__ | oh yes the actual mechanism is solid |
| 19:59.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | flex cable actually is defect culprit #2 right after USB jack |
| 20:00.46 | sno__ | actually the usb jack is soldered solidly to the board its just people would try to plug in micro usb leads the wrong way and press way too hard |
| 20:01.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think the problem is with unplugging and applying bending force during that |
| 20:01.34 | sno__ | hmm |
| 20:02.25 | sno__ | i always use my nails to push aay at the housing when removing |
| 20:02.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | as a general rule never hold the device while unplugging. Just push against case next to the plug |
| 20:02.32 | sno__ | never broken any of my phones |
| 20:02.41 | sno__ | bingo |
| 20:02.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly what I do as well :-) |
| 20:04.01 | sno__ | is the baseband completely partmentalised? |
| 20:04.19 | sno__ | a baseband exploit and then return into user memory is not possible? |
| 20:04.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, so absolutely totally completely you wouldn't dream it up :-) |
| 20:04.57 | bencoh | sno__: usb |
| 20:05.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | we not only reduce data lines to modem to mere USB, we even have current monitors and RF monitors and an external power switch, and we monitor *all* signal lines for suspicious activity |
| 20:06.11 | sno__ | can i temp disable the wrote strobe to main storage when plugging into usb? |
| 20:06.15 | sno__ | write |
| 20:06.27 | sno__ | I mean like a hardware switch |
| 20:06.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | err sorry? |
| 20:06.48 | bencoh | sno__: I'd just use a usb cable with D+/D- shortened (or cut) |
| 20:06.52 | sno__ | when plugging the device into a computer can it be exploited at that time? |
| 20:06.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | the complete Mentorgraphics USB controller engine is completely under CPU control |
| 20:07.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | sno__: nope |
| 20:07.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even on power-up |
| 20:07.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | as long as you got a valid bootloader chain in NAND |
| 20:10.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | unlike any other phone (with ADB? etc) the Neo900 at no time is vulnerable to rooting via USB |
| 20:10.27 | *** join/#neo900 arcean (~arcean@nat3.finemedia.pl) |
| 20:10.43 | sno__ | can the baseband know how much power the cpu is using at a given time? |
| 20:10.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 20:11.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | not really |
| 20:11.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | could do fancy guessing from battery voltage |
| 20:11.32 | sno__ | does the cpu emit electromagnetic emissions that may help an adversary determine which instructions are being executed |
| 20:12.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't comment on this, we have no instrumetation to even check |
| 20:12.12 | bencoh | it's a (regular) omap3 |
| 20:12.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably CPU _does_ emit such RF, but on a very low signal level |
| 20:12.42 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: neo900.org is down (?) |
| 20:12.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | urgent service downtime warning from our server hoster: >> Start: 13. Mai 2015 20:00:00 CEST Ende: 13. Mai 2015 23:59:00 CEST (voraussichtlich)<< Duration: "probably a few minutes" |
| 20:13.14 | bencoh | okay |
| 20:13.45 | specing | server hoster be like: "brb installing rootkits" |
| 20:14.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ==> HTTP <== |
| 20:14.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | State is now: OK (21:49h 2015.05.13) |
| 20:14.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | State before: ERROR (was 6 minutes) |
| 20:14.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Service params: path=/ port=80 |
| 20:14.23 | sno__ | what about a custom emi shield for the cpu? |
| 20:14.43 | sno__ | i could just add my own nm |
| 20:15.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | we will comply with the rather harsch German CE emi regulations. Even a custom shielding doesn't rule out signals escaping |
| 20:16.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | as a general rule EMI from CPU only gives *hints* on what the CPU is doing, it's not like a wireless in-circuit debugging channel |
| 20:17.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you probably could fingerprint e.g. john-the-ripper, but you can NOT tell what key it tries to crack |
| 20:18.41 | sno__ | are you selling any working beta? |
| 20:18.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | also to give an idea, I guess the maximum distance you could receive and decode any EMI form CPU is 5 meters |
| 20:18.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | if at all |
| 20:19.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | razher more like 10cm |
| 20:19.47 | bencoh | hmm, 600mhz (clockrate) at light speed is more than 10cm |
| 20:19.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | sno__: we're about to build first working *complete* prottype, with externally attached CPU-board (BB-xM) |
| 20:20.05 | bencoh | but yeah, we're talking about a few microamps |
| 20:20.16 | bencoh | (or mili maybe) |
| 20:20.23 | bencoh | (at most) |
| 20:22.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: the main topic to look at when it comes to CPU EMI is antenna length and thus antenna gain |
| 20:22.38 | sno__ | fractal antennas can do amazing things |
| 20:22.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | the antenna length generally is in the sub-mm range |
| 20:23.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus the CPU is already shielded from both sides, by a massive copper plabne below and a 3 RAM/NAND cips in PoP |
| 20:23.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | chips* |
| 20:24.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus I doubt much RF can get generated and actually transmitted by the ALU or other IPs on the SoC |
| 20:24.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly what's radiating most are the power supply lines to CPU core |
| 20:26.21 | sno__ | well i'm already sold, i'm tired of the usual qualcomm/mediatech backdoored crap |
| 20:26.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | you *could* "trace" a code execution if you knew *exactly* the code that gets executed. But that's totally impossible to predict on a multitasking system |
| 20:26.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | sno__: hehe, so are we |
| 20:26.53 | bencoh | +1 |
| 20:28.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | and again, my educated guess on RFI/EMI is: no way more than 10cm distance |
| 20:29.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I would bet my ass on anybody trying to implement such attack fails for years even with direct physical contact to SoC allowed (modulo attaching wires to the circuit) |
| 20:30.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | sno__: the qualcom/MTK crap has one huuuge advantage: it's incredibly cheap compared to our design |
| 20:31.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | Moore's law doesn't stop at SoCs |
| 20:32.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're using 2007 technology |
| 20:32.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | at 2007 prices |
| 20:33.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | nowadays you get a complete smartphone on a chip for what we pay for the OMAP3 alone |
| 20:34.04 | sno__ | even if no one is trying to "hack" my phone theres just a nice feeling of being liberated by using something like neo 900 |
| 20:34.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, absolutely. I don't want to ever have to surrender to Android or Winphone or iOS |
| 20:35.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I want *me* _owning_ the phone, *not* any Apple or Google or M$ |
| 20:36.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | or Nokia (Harmattan) |
| 20:36.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ==> HTTP <== |
| 20:36.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | State is now: OK (22:28h 2015.05.13) |
| 20:36.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | State before: ERROR (was 16 minutes) |
| 20:36.54 | sno__ | why is it called neo? |
| 20:37.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | because it's based on Openmoko Neo Freerunner and N900 |
| 20:37.16 | sno__ | the first to free people from the tryanny we live under ? |
| 20:37.38 | bencoh | :-) |
| 20:37.38 | sno__ | oh |
| 20:37.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | Name was the brightest idea in whole project |
| 20:39.14 | bencoh | let's hope it still packs with other bright/brilliant stuff ;) |
| 21:11.02 | *** join/#neo900 arossdotme (~zxy@79-69-198-143.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:11.16 | *** join/#neo900 sparetire (~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire) |
| 21:12.20 | *** join/#neo900 x29a (~x29a@unaffiliated/x29a) |
| 22:10.25 | *** join/#neo900 jonsger (~Thunderbi@x5f739205.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 22:12.47 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@65.76.93.92.rev.sfr.net) |
| 22:25.57 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@65.76.93.92.rev.sfr.net) |
| 22:30.27 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@65.76.93.92.rev.sfr.net) |
| 22:47.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | 6 customers out of 20 voucher mails, not half bad |
| 22:47.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 23:01.20 | wpwrak | now if we just knew how many actually saw the mail :) |
| 23:02.42 | jonsger | so you have about 125 customers? |
| 23:10.48 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik (~quassel@65.76.93.92.rev.sfr.net) |
| 23:27.44 | bencoh | let's hope it's more than that |
| 23:33.34 | *** join/#neo900 vakkov (~vakkov@s3n104.brunel.ac.uk) |
| 23:49.45 | *** join/#neo900 lobito1 (~lobito@190.177.243.120) |
