| 00:11.57 | *** join/#neo900 Wizzup (~Wizzup@a82-161-36-93.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
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| 01:23.40 | Oksana | wonders if PXS8 has TCP/IP... |
| 01:23.53 | Oksana | http://m2m.gemalto.com/products/industrial-plus/lga/pxs8.html ^ |
| 01:35.06 | *** join/#neo900 Humpelstilzchen (erik@f054178244.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 01:35.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr, sure |
| 01:43.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | datasheet, "SPECIAL FEATURES:" > TCP/IP stack access via AT commands |
| 01:45.31 | jurov | all for the NSA convenience :) |
| 01:50.52 | jurov | in old N900, was the memory between cpu and baseband shared? |
| 01:51.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 01:51.58 | jurov | so the baseband could not do DMA? |
| 01:54.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((TCP/IP)) I guess always been in modems partially, since introduction of GPRS. Only (HS)CSD was a protocil agnostic "copper free RS232 cable". Since GPRS it's TCP/IP and in LTE even voice is. See VoLTE which basically is VoIP |
| 01:54.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | jurov: obviously not |
| 01:54.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 was, err is a pretty good design |
| 01:55.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | much better than e.g. Lumia and Jolla |
| 01:55.29 | jurov | thanks. it's not obvious, tho. like usb-connected dongle can do DMA if controller allows it |
| 01:55.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry? |
| 01:56.17 | jurov | there was some attack "plug it into USB, dump the memory" |
| 01:57.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | when something in USB dos DMA then that's the controller and the controller is controlled by the driver which in turn is controlled by the user unless the phone has an A as first letter |
| 01:58.15 | jurov | there was talk about reusign the N900 chip, and i'm thinking about wallet/gpg gizmo |
| 01:58.52 | jurov | and this depends on what can the binary blobs access |
| 01:58.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're talking foreign tongues |
| 01:59.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | I have no idea what's a "N900 chip" |
| 01:59.50 | jurov | sorry i meant the mainboard |
| 02:00.19 | jurov | that is left after neo900 upgrade |
| 02:02.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah ok |
| 02:05.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I can tell you technically neither the modem nor the wlan can do anything to data in RAM (or storage) when the CPU doesn't proxy or at least actively allows by accordingly configuring the interface registers |
| 02:07.23 | *** join/#neo900 pabs3 (~pabs@d175-38-160-205.per801.wa.optusnet.com.au) |
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| 02:07.28 | jurov | that's good |
| 02:09.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | TrustZone is another story but I guess that's thoroughly analyzed meanwhile |
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| 06:18.58 | pabs3 | found someone with a dead N900 http://pavelmachek.livejournal.com/129312.html |
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| 08:51.21 | jonwil | hi |
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| 13:03.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | pabs3: there are more such instances |
| 13:04.01 | pabs3 | are they useful? |
| 13:04.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, for a DIY upgrade they are ideal |
| 13:04.43 | pabs3 | not so much for you? |
| 13:05.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, we need constant quality and warranty etc |
| 13:06.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I found a source for such devices. That's why we started the shop Down Payment now |
| 13:08.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | as I already said: right now is the sweetspot where we can handle *all* troublesome sourcing. IOW right now we can sort of guarantee that we can build a device for you (incl N900 mech parts) when we get the funds to do the sourcing right now |
| 13:08.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno how long I can sustan this sweet spot state |
| 13:09.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | it took long enough to reach it |
| 13:09.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | and this is a project that has particularly tough sourcing challenges |
| 13:10.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 mech parts, 1GB RAM chips, etc, all are quite hard to source parts |
| 13:15.15 | wpwrak | (tmo) rarely has spam ever been so on-topic :-) |
| 13:16.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 13:18.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, mv $spam /dev/null |
| 13:20.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and rarely ever has spam been tagged as such by so many users in so short timespan ;-) |
| 13:21.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | post: 15:07, 1st tag 15:14, 2nd 15:16 |
| 13:22.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | removed 15:20 (only since I been busy with IRC and reading new posts, was about to remove it since 15:09) |
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| 15:18.38 | ar | Hi. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8_Kfjo3VjU |
| 15:21.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, for server downtime. |
| 15:28.27 | *** join/#neo900 Kabouik_ (~quassel@147.99.221.232) |
| 15:31.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | HECK we got slashdotted |
| 15:32.53 | wpwrak | "victory !" ;-) |
| 15:37.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Not really |
| 15:48.22 | bencoh | hmm |
| 15:48.30 | bencoh | is that a "positive" slashod ? |
| 15:54.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | sort of, though it's pretty bad for us since we were not prepared |
| 15:54.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | we probably need to shut down the shop |
| 16:02.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | our box is absolutely nut up to that load |
| 16:02.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | not* |
| 16:09.20 | bencoh | hmm |
| 16:26.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed hmm |
| 16:27.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, for now we're basically restarting everything every 60s, before OOM-killer kicks in |
| 16:28.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | which amazingly enough allowed 2 new customers to register, and one even place and pay an order |
| 16:28.27 | bencoh | wtf |
| 16:28.34 | bencoh | what are you running ? |
| 16:28.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're handling a skashdot storm |
| 16:29.51 | bencoh | "Website hosted on the phone? (Score:3) |
| 16:29.52 | drathir | DocScrutinizer05: ssds? |
| 16:29.59 | bencoh | That is the only feasible explanation for it being down right now. We know this site doesn't direct enough traffic to take down any website that is more robust than that. |
| 16:30.03 | bencoh | " |
| 16:30.05 | bencoh | :/ |
| 16:30.18 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: I mean, what kind of software are you running ? |
| 16:30.39 | drathir | bencoh: You i guess not get the amount of traffic when ling go in "good" place... |
| 16:30.40 | bencoh | ah, prestashop |
| 16:30.50 | drathir | ling/link* |
| 16:31.31 | bencoh | drathir: I was quoting a slashdot comment, that's not from me :) |
| 16:32.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ==> HTTP <== |
| 16:32.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | State is now: OK (18:27h 2015.05.21) |
| 16:32.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | State before: ERROR (was about 1 hour) |
| 16:33.11 | drathir | bencoh: no, im not blame You or anyone, only sayin even not mind what could happen when link go to "good place"... how big amount of traffic could happen... |
| 16:33.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | what idiot said the nonsense about "We know this site doesn't direct enough traffic to take down any website that is more robust than that." Even took down maemo supermicro |
| 16:33.51 | drathir | depend if weak point is hw or bandwidth.... |
| 16:34.09 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: wow |
| 16:34.34 | drathir | if hw and eg. low amount of ram is possible to try survive expand swap at sdd... |
| 16:34.46 | bencoh | anyway, what kind of hw is the prestashop running on to end up with oom ? |
| 16:34.57 | drathir | ssd* ;p |
| 16:35.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | drathir: 1GB RAM |
| 16:35.52 | drathir | bencoh: im pretty sure its a vm instance but im guessing only ;p |
| 16:35.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | right |
| 16:36.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | swap doesn't help |
| 16:36.29 | bencoh | drathir: yeah I suspected that as well :-) |
| 16:36.44 | bencoh | is there any way to increase it ? |
| 16:36.48 | drathir | DocScrutinizer05: swap only if ssd when hdd better not... |
| 16:37.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | NFC what storage on that VM |
| 16:37.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: dynamically while running the site? NO |
| 16:38.02 | bencoh | hmmkay |
| 16:38.12 | bencoh | btw, we do have 32GB eMMC, right ? |
| 16:38.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, prolly more |
| 16:38.53 | drathir | bencoh: depend on os and virtualisation used... |
| 16:39.39 | jonsger | 16GiB but not eMMC :( |
| 16:39.42 | bencoh | "And for 1GHz, 1Gb RAM, 0.5Gb storage. That's not even close to the spec of the above Samsung" I guess he stopped at the nand |
| 16:39.45 | bencoh | (?) |
| 16:39.49 | drathir | if good remember openvz allow ram on the fly expand, but hdd only after restart, but is possible loseless restart... |
| 16:40.27 | drathir | mean all services stay untouched at openvz... it can freeze the ram also... |
| 16:41.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | irrelevant since we don't use openvz |
| 16:41.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | we use a vserver of hetzner |
| 16:42.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I can't give hetzner a call to ask for "more RAM please! NOW!" |
| 16:42.34 | drathir | DocScrutinizer05: oh i see... hetzner most of the time is fine and relative cheap... |
| 16:42.55 | drathir | exclude last big issue of power loss... |
| 16:42.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900 is not a webhoster |
| 16:43.22 | bencoh | true |
| 16:43.57 | drathir | lol O.o im good understand its colocation and the host is neo900 ? O.o |
| 16:44.38 | drathir | wow, wow in that case the hats from heads... Its goin pretty well than... |
| 16:45.02 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: I thought you had a dedicated server with a small vm for prestashop ... nevermind :-) |
| 16:45.17 | ar | DocScrutinizer05: you're running apache there with mpm_prefork? |
| 16:45.25 | *** join/#neo900 Xseba360 (~Xseba360@user-94-254-209-30.play-internet.pl) |
| 16:48.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ar: I guess yes. dos1 is handling that and when some guy had thought a tad before publishing that slashdot post, we had made sure dos1 is available to handle that stuff when the impact hits |
| 16:49.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas he's busy now after a short emergency handling and implementing a few duct tape "fixes" |
| 16:50.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | so we'll see if the thing stabilizes or goes down completely eventually |
| 16:50.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | OOM isn't really helpful, when for example it kills mysql instead of apache |
| 16:52.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I still see dozends of /usr/sbin/httpd2-prefork -f /etc/apache2/httpd.conf -DSSL -D SYSTEMD -DFOREGROUND -k start processes |
| 16:53.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and http://privatepaste.com/eaab8324a4 |
| 16:53.33 | bencoh | prefork .... well ... preforks processes/threads, so it's most probably "normal" |
| 16:53.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks to our stopgap fix |
| 16:54.13 | bencoh | maybe you should lower the number of max concurrent forks |
| 16:54.21 | bencoh | if that's what takes a lot of mem |
| 16:54.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: yes, but it preforks too many for our RAM available |
| 16:54.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: we would have done that, if dos1 was available |
| 16:55.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I guess that's what eats the RAM |
| 16:55.48 | bencoh | MaxSpareServers and/or MaxClients iirc |
| 16:55.59 | ar | DocScrutinizer05: check mpm_prefork module configuration, especially MinSpareServers and MaxSpareServers directives. |
| 16:56.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | *I* won't touch that stuff now |
| 16:56.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's dos1's domain |
| 16:56.30 | ar | dos1: â |
| 16:57.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | he's not available -> poor idea to post that /. post without letting us know beforehand |
| 16:58.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | worst case I have to take down apache completely and wait until dos1 can fix stuff |
| 16:58.37 | xe4l | DocScrutinizer05: take a look at oom_adj |
| 16:58.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, good idea. But not now |
| 16:59.02 | xe4l | also you can use oom.priority and cgroups, give mysql a cgroup, set the priority so it's not allowed to kill DB |
| 16:59.07 | xe4l | and DB has defined resource range |
| 16:59.18 | xe4l | mysql frequently misbehaves |
| 17:00.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: i know all this, but I never touched that stuff |
| 17:00.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's frequently the job of my admins to do so |
| 17:02.11 | Humpelstilzchen | congrats for /. |
| 17:04.16 | ar | dos1,DocScrutinizer05: keep them (SpareServers settings)low, like 8 and 32. and, if you have some spare memory, you could apply some nginx cache upfront with cache in tmpfs. http://dpaste.com/11AEBB0 |
| 17:04.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | if we had spare memory we wouldn't run out of memory that fast ;-) |
| 17:05.23 | ar | yeah, but if you keep the SpareServers settings down, it should help a bit with the memory |
| 17:06.07 | ar | or⦠you could just slap the free-tier cloudflare and grab coffee mugs |
| 17:06.24 | xe4l | ar: hahaha |
| 17:06.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | funny aspect: just a 2 or 3 days ago we migrated all static content from distributed round robbing back to our own server |
| 17:06.48 | xe4l | oh the joy :) |
| 17:07.00 | bencoh | :/ |
| 17:08.35 | ar | (the nginx cache an extract from live production configuration at my current company, and it's how i "fixed" the application and server configuration that was suppposed to be provided by external company) |
| 17:08.49 | ar | s/cache/cache is/ |
| 17:17.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ==> HTTP <== |
| 17:17.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | State is now: ERROR (19:07h 2015.05.21) |
| 17:17.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | State before: OK (was 17 minutes) |
| 17:19.56 | *** join/#neo900 arcean (~arcean@nat1.finemedia.pl) |
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| 18:20.04 | freemangordon | what exactly does /. to bring neo900 site down? |
| 18:20.53 | dos1 | too little ram to handle so many requests for the shop |
| 18:22.39 | dos1 | it just came a bit too early - now we were ready to handle ~400 customers, not thousands of viewers ;) |
| 18:23.06 | dos1 | one of the reasons why there wasn't a public announcement yet |
| 18:23.48 | freemangordon | oh, so it is not /. the site itself, but the publicity? I see :) |
| 18:26.39 | dos1 | yes, yes :) "being slashdotted" is a common term of being affected by traffic comming from /. |
| 18:26.52 | freemangordon | :) |
| 18:27.25 | dos1 | okay, finally back home! messing with apache configs on n900 isn't very convienient :D |
| 18:27.49 | freemangordon | I hope it will be back soon, you should not lose the momentum IMO |
| 18:28.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | we already did lose that momentum |
| 18:28.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | /. got wasted |
| 18:29.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | shop was not ready for that. Neither technically nor content-wise |
| 18:29.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | and we are "back", actually we never were gone |
| 18:29.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | except for a 8min when it started |
| 18:30.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | when OOM-killer nuked mysql |
| 18:31.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ==> HTTP <== |
| 18:31.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | State is now: ERROR (20:27h 2015.05.21) |
| 18:31.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | State before: OK (was about 1 hour) |
| 18:32.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's random, depending if the test finds a good slot or a slot that times out |
| 18:32.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:33.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | the shop is still under heavy load, but all those visits don't generate "revenue" (so the term in prestashop) |
| 18:34.05 | freemangordon | wonders - why the shop? |
| 18:34.18 | freemangordon | there is not that much you can read there |
| 18:34.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's only partly due to technical problems, I think it's mainly a problem of the content which is not really ready for primetime yet |
| 18:35.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: sorry? "why the shop"? |
| 18:35.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | because we need a shop? |
| 18:35.22 | freemangordon | "the shop is still under heavy load" |
| 18:35.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | becuase /. had a link to it |
| 18:35.40 | freemangordon | oh, I see |
| 18:35.51 | dos1 | yeah, the main page wouldn't be problematic - it's static |
| 18:35.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 18:36.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and there's a reason we have no link from mainpage to shop yet |
| 18:36.17 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 18:36.28 | *** join/#neo900 xes_ (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 18:36.29 | freemangordon | got it now, thanks |
| 18:36.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 18:38.47 | *** join/#neo900 sparetire_ (~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire) |
| 18:39.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: probably we should have kept .htaccess and create a password for each voucher |
| 18:39.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | now it's too late |
| 18:40.12 | Wizzup | I don't think it is too bad |
| 18:40.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | my plans were different, seems my plans were poorly thought |
| 18:41.04 | *** join/#neo900 rjeffries (~rjeffries@97-86-138-47.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 18:41.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup: well, /. got wasted. We can't start another /. hype when we pimped the shop so it really looks attractive |
| 18:41.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | so we probably lost a 100 or more customers during last 3h |
| 18:41.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | potential customers |
| 18:42.25 | freemangordon | I don;t think it is that bad actually |
| 18:42.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather more, when our /. campaign would have been planned and pulled off carefully |
| 18:43.29 | Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: it is still on /. |
| 18:43.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know it's that bad. I see the amount of visitors and the amount of accounts created |
| 18:44.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup: so what? we can't pimp up the shop in 30 min. And even when we did, we can't make them 1000 visitors come back to have a second look |
| 18:44.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | they won't spread the word either |
| 18:45.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | from a PR perspective it's a disaster |
| 18:46.07 | jurov | you can't just copy everything over to better machine? |
| 18:46.17 | Wizzup | one could say that the amount of accounts vs visitors also depends on when the visitors are (people who were alrady interested, etc) |
| 18:46.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 18:46.25 | Wizzup | but sure, I am willing to accept what you said |
| 18:46.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even if we did, that wouldn't change +anything* on content |
| 18:48.05 | Wizzup | people should not have linked to the webshop, I agree |
| 18:48.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | this shot is wasted, and it was one of the biggest calibers in my plans about PR for the shop |
| 18:48.28 | dos1 | jurov: the shop wasn't supposed to be widely public just yet. the performance issues are actually just an effect, not a cause here |
| 18:49.20 | jurov | I know but i don't understand no one foresaw this. I'm very careful what I'm exposing publicly. |
| 18:50.45 | jurov | I really don't mean to condescend or anything. |
| 18:50.53 | jurov | Just my 2c |
| 18:51.46 | dos1 | we simply failed to tell our donors "you're free to use and show the shop to your friends, but please don't post it on news sites until we make a public announcement" |
| 18:52.57 | jurov | olo you really think that would have worked? |
| 18:53.39 | dos1 | I think so, yes |
| 18:54.01 | jurov | nope. people are too eager to share any juicy bits of info |
| 18:54.46 | dos1 | there were not that many of them (~400) and I think they all have an incentive to help the project, not hurt it |
| 18:54.59 | dos1 | and the person who posted that news surely did it to help the project |
| 18:55.24 | dos1 | just wasn't aware that it might not be the best idea right now - because we didn't make him aware |
| 18:56.01 | dos1 | anyway - moved serving static resources on http:80 to nginx, so it's not affected by the shop anymore |
| 18:56.09 | jurov | you wrote "how the shop to your friends" yourself. and these people aren't necessarily wanting to help |
| 18:56.35 | dos1 | if they didn't want to help, they wouldn't post the news on ./ :) |
| 18:57.01 | dos1 | but yeah, I can't be sure it would have worked - I simply *believe* it would |
| 18:57.18 | jurov | i really don't want to start an argument. but you'll be well served by consulting someone who does have pr experience. |
| 18:57.38 | freemangordon | :) |
| 18:58.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | jurov: do you know somebody who does *real work* for free? |
| 18:58.57 | dos1 | we would surely be well server by consulting people with a lot of various experience - but it all costs money :) |
| 18:59.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | jurov: if you do, we could use a stand in for dos1 who is pretty busy with studying |
| 19:00.33 | afics | http://neo900.org/specs <- link dead |
| 19:01.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | and cert invalid |
| 19:01.57 | dos1 | whoops |
| 19:02.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and loading frontpage stalls at http://neo900.org/ |
| 19:02.35 | afics | no ssl problems here |
| 19:02.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | err at 65% |
| 19:02.47 | afics | accessing via http works here too |
| 19:02.56 | afics | no loss to ne900.org here |
| 19:03.01 | Wizzup | same, works for me |
| 19:03.19 | dos1 | fixed |
| 19:03.22 | jurov | i can, i have some rather obscure projects like coinbr.com, but dunno how would that experience help |
| 19:03.39 | jurov | perhaps if you want to accopt buttcoins |
| 19:05.02 | afics | how powerful is that server? |
| 19:05.13 | afics | (or rather, how many people were trying to hit it?) |
| 19:05.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | jurov: we're sort on manpower. We have no time to search for methods to convert coins to additional poeple - we don't know of any such people |
| 19:05.52 | Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: there are services that directly turn bc into euros |
| 19:06.15 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: hmm? (real work) :P |
| 19:06.34 | jurov | what kinds of manpower? |
| 19:07.43 | jurov | yes, btc can be sorted out later, and there are european payment processors that make it easy |
| 19:08.10 | Wizzup | (if it brings in a lot of extra money) |
| 19:08.33 | freemangordon | jurov: afaik dos1 is the only one to maintain the webserver. and there will be need of devs when the first prototypes are out, for fremantle porting |
| 19:08.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and now ViewPower brought my 4 core CPU to a grinding halt. Seems it's time for a breakfast break |
| 19:09.29 | freemangordon | jurov: kernel devs, RE guros, whatnot |
| 19:09.56 | jurov | all voluntary, i suppose? |
| 19:10.00 | freemangordon | sure |
| 19:10.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1 yes |
| 19:10.07 | jurov | yes i can help with the web |
| 19:10.27 | jurov | did some kernel stuff too, but can't promise |
| 19:11.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | main manpower shortage is on webdesign and PR newsletter production and related stuff |
| 19:11.59 | jurov | um, i'm not designer |
| 19:12.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither are Werner or me |
| 19:12.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | that leaves our best guy dos1 |
| 19:12.34 | afics | https://neo900.org/faq <- doesn't work without https; also price discrepancy to webshop |
| 19:12.41 | afics | EUR 990 vs. EUR 480 |
| 19:12.59 | freemangordon | 480 is a downpayment |
| 19:13.05 | freemangordon | not the total |
| 19:13.08 | afics | freemangordon, ah |
| 19:13.15 | freemangordon | afics: also, http:// WFM |
| 19:13.23 | freemangordon | could be some FF cache, dunno |
| 19:13.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | wbeshop: The device is still in development. Estimated shipping date: end of 2015, exact final price not determined yet. |
| 19:13.39 | dos1 | it wasn't working for a minute or two, so it might be cache |
| 19:13.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | webshop: DOWN PAYMENT for purchasing risk components like 1GB RAM chip, camera, domesheet, RGB LEDs, switches etc |
| 19:14.49 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: though webshop is not the most easy do understand, but I am sure you already know that |
| 19:15.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I said "it's not ready for primetime" |
| 19:15.23 | freemangordon | yeah, I know |
| 19:15.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | it lacks a *lot* of info and stuff yet |
| 19:16.32 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 19:16.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm actually tempted to simply reject all new customers and orders (were only 3 since /. ) |
| 19:17.07 | freemangordon | why that? |
| 19:17.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | because of ^^^ |
| 19:17.31 | freemangordon | ah, *new* customers |
| 19:18.36 | freemangordon | maybe someone should comment on /. explaining the situation and promising there will be an announcement when webshop is ready for the general public |
| 19:18.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't want and don't need new customers that start bitching in a 2 months why the 480 bucks they paid didn't already result in a Neo900 getting dropped at their front door |
| 19:18.46 | *** join/#neo900 louisdk (~louisdk@static-5-103-130-65.seas-nve.net) |
| 19:19.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually this could break the neck of project, when they roll back their payments |
| 19:20.07 | Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: you can put up a temporary page: "webshop was not supposed to be *this* public yet -- we will announce it when it is done" |
| 19:20.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup: I can't do that since we sent out a 400 voucher mails |
| 19:27.05 | jurov | not a good idea, i'd say "thanks for your support, better webshop is under development" |
| 19:27.49 | jurov | pls don't publicly detailedly explain "we fucked this up" |
| 19:29.37 | jurov | if considering advices, at least this one |
| 19:30.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | nobody fucked up anything, except the one who posted a non-public link on /. |
| 19:31.28 | jurov | eyes, but it won't help you to explain this to every visitor |
| 19:31.32 | jurov | *yes |
| 19:48.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I've put the shop into maintenance mode for now, until stuff starts working again, sorry for the inconvenience |
| 20:12.43 | *** join/#neo900 norly (~norly@enpas.org) |
| 20:36.15 | *** join/#neo900 HylianSavior (~mafuyu@2607:5600:c6:1d::3d64) |
| 20:43.06 | *** join/#neo900 freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23) |
| 21:07.31 | dos1 | a pretty nice article: http://liliputing.com/2015/05/neo900-inches-closer-to-reality-project-to-update-the-nokia-n900-hardware.html :) |
| 21:42.22 | *** join/#neo900 HylianSavior (~mafuyu@2607:5600:c6:1d::3d64) |
| 22:04.05 | *** join/#neo900 lobito (~lobito@190.177.226.221) |
| 22:35.59 | dos1 | love the recent comment on slashdot |
| 22:36.02 | dos1 | "For those wholly confused by what this is, it's not intended at all as a competitor for Android or iOS based devices, it exists for its own reasons. A car analogy (do users here still ask for those? Or here do car analogies ask for users?): telling someone looking to get an Neo900 to get an Apple iPhone or Samsung Galaxy would be like telling someone to get a Ferrari 458 or Lamborghini Huracan rather than a Rolls Royce Phantom. Sure, the Ferrari and |
| 22:36.04 | dos1 | Lamborghini are cheaper, faster, and more likely to be on the poster in your room; but someone wanting to buy the Rolls isn't going to be impressed by that." |
| 22:36.26 | dos1 | :) |
| 22:50.36 | mvaenskae | cheers, i have been a bit scared seeing the price of the neo900 about 1k eur and wanted to know at what point you expect the difference to be paid |
| 22:52.08 | mvaenskae | that is quite a large chunk for me to still pay and as much as i want a neo900 i am set a bit too much into limbo with such a high price as of this moment |
| 23:00.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>the last thing the public need is to try to make an informed decision based on misinformation coming from individs who think they are commenting from a position of knowledge..<< Kudos endsormeans, I couldn't have put it any better |
| 23:01.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: niiice |
| 23:03.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | mvaenskae: end of year - so we hope. Or on a abstract definition: immediately before we start production which is supposed to take a few maybe 6 weeks, then we ship |
| 23:04.38 | mvaenskae | DocScrutinizer05: so best would be for customers who want a board to put at least an order up in the store within those 6 weeks? |
| 23:05.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | mvaenskae: I obviously failed completely to correctly word my statement (nothing new). Lemme retry... |
| 23:05.41 | mvaenskae | no trouble, it's 1AM :D |
| 23:07.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | we now collect down payments to source risk parts. When we finished prototyping and testing etc, we start the big final ordering session to send everybody an invoice and collect the remaining money. I hope this will happen fast since we will announce it beforehand. Then after maybe 2 weeks we can start production and I hope we will ship devices shortly after |
| 23:08.03 | mvaenskae | what is an estimate on the start of the big final order? |
| 23:08.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | the "finish prototyping" is *expected* to be around end of this year, ideally for xmas |
| 23:08.41 | mvaenskae | oh, end of year sounds awesome for me |
| 23:08.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course the faster the better, but all RL-experience tells me that stuff like that never is faster than you hope for |
| 23:09.08 | mvaenskae | that allows me to better schedule my finances |
| 23:09.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | and a *few* late payers won't break our neck either, we claculate some safety margins everywhere |
| 23:10.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | this current campaign is just about this unique sweet spot where I *know* I can actually source all the needed stuff when I start right now |
| 23:10.55 | mvaenskae | that is quite smart :) |
| 23:11.37 | mvaenskae | would there be a possibility for a second neo900 once this "batch" sells out btw? |
| 23:13.18 | mvaenskae | just curious on the stock of components on the general market :) |
| 23:14.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | we could try, but it's not really likely that I ever again can reach such a "sweet spot" regarding sourcing |
| 23:15.08 | mvaenskae | there is always the neo900v2 ;) |
| 23:15.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly N900 mech parts will need an alternative solution then |
| 23:15.22 | Wizzup | unless people order just the NeoN |
| 23:15.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, NeoN is "easy" |
| 23:16.06 | Wizzup | which, presumably should also get cheaper in a second run, if there is less r&d involved |
| 23:16.10 | mvaenskae | i will then try finding someone who is a paypal victim and ask that person to bet on some n900's for me until i get one :) |
| 23:16.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | the risk parts for NeoN are switches, camera, 1GB RAM, LEDs... We always could find alternatives or live without them |
| 23:16.38 | mvaenskae | Wizzup: indeed, r&d will likely become "research where to get those freaking parts again" |
| 23:17.18 | mvaenskae | i am not confident in my n900 to be disassembled yet again :( |
| 23:17.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, a lot of R&D been exactly that already now |
| 23:17.35 | dos1 | na-ah, on second run there would be higher profit margin! ;) |
| 23:17.42 | Wizzup | :p |
| 23:18.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | dos1: that too ;-) |
| 23:18.03 | mvaenskae | i am fine with you guys making a profit :) |
| 23:18.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess we should share 50/50 with customers |
| 23:18.24 | mvaenskae | i hope it will be invested into further R&D then though =p |
| 23:18.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course, what else :-) |
| 23:19.06 | mvaenskae | make a smartwatch \o/ |
| 23:19.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | too late, GDC already does |
| 23:19.20 | mvaenskae | starts running |
| 23:19.21 | dos1 | Nikolaus was already evaluating that, FYI :) |
| 23:19.27 | mvaenskae | Ã.ö |
| 23:19.31 | mvaenskae | oh, wowzers |
| 23:19.42 | wpwrak | (what else) ferraris, lamborghinis, beer, ... :) |
| 23:19.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehehe |
| 23:19.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | Rolls |
| 23:19.57 | mvaenskae | on the neo900's hardware one further question, what wlan-chip is used? |
| 23:20.21 | mvaenskae | ahhh, found it x) |
| 23:20.27 | mvaenskae | had the faq open but overlooked it |
| 23:20.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | Rolls Royce Phantom |
| 23:20.34 | mvaenskae | no broadcom == thumbs up |
| 23:20.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bd |
| 23:20.58 | infobot | [bd] http://neo900.org/stuff/block-diagrams/neo900/neo900.html the very fine and detailled Block Diagram, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1445200#post1445200 |
| 23:21.22 | mvaenskae | i cannot read block diagrams :( |
| 23:21.28 | dos1 | YEAH, IT WORKS |
| 23:21.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | no need to |
| 23:21.35 | dos1 | stupid caches |
| 23:21.57 | dos1 | had a hard time with all the redirects defined by .htaccess now that :80 is handled by nginx |
| 23:22.10 | dos1 | some of them probably may still not work temporarily |
| 23:22.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | mvaenskae: you can *read* "WLAN/BT/FM", right? ;-) |
| 23:22.26 | dos1 | if you encounter some, just switch http to https |
| 23:22.34 | mvaenskae | DocScrutinizer05: i was wondering on the specific chipset ;) |
| 23:22.38 | dos1 | (and notify me ;)) |
| 23:22.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | hover over that block with mouse |
| 23:22.58 | mvaenskae | oh, it's interactive :D |
| 23:23.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | yessir! :-D |
| 23:23.17 | mvaenskae | ohhhhh, this is sexy |
| 23:23.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-))) |
| 23:24.10 | mvaenskae | there will be 2 sim slots? |
| 23:24.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 23:25.01 | mvaenskae | it cannot run both at once though, can it? |
| 23:25.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless the mech doesn't pan out (unlikely) |
| 23:25.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, alas it can't (yet?) |
| 23:25.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | we build it in a way so a modem firmware update *could* enable DualSim-DualStandby |
| 23:25.56 | mvaenskae | i guess getting the second one to run would require 2 modems but those are huge and costly and will require further R&D to put down on |
| 23:26.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | we can't fit a second modem into that case |
| 23:26.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | but Gemalto could fit DSDS into their firmware, if only they wanted |
| 23:27.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're already providing support for this not-yet-existing firmware |
| 23:27.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | in our hardware |
| 23:27.34 | mvaenskae | someone needs to become CEO and enforce an update for the modems ^^ |
| 23:27.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 23:27.47 | mvaenskae | not me though :D |
| 23:27.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope more for Nikolaus' good connections to Gemalto |
| 23:28.34 | mvaenskae | ohhhhh, vitamin b(ekanntschaft) |
| 23:28.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | in theory it's simple, and btw I "invented" it before MTK(?) did |
| 23:29.11 | mvaenskae | vitamin a(cquaintances) for non-german speakers :) |
| 23:29.28 | mvaenskae | MTK == MediaTeK? |
| 23:29.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
| 23:29.42 | mvaenskae | you didn't patent it? D: |
| 23:29.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | the modem we initially planned had DSDS option |
| 23:29.54 | mvaenskae | you could be soo rich D: |
| 23:29.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hate sw-patents |
| 23:30.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | despite I hold a few |
| 23:30.18 | mvaenskae | ah, i thought hardware-based :) |
| 23:30.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | the hw support is simple: a mux for two SIM controlled by modem |
| 23:31.00 | mvaenskae | people got patents on plain water ;) |
| 23:31.10 | mvaenskae | plain HOT water to be precise |
| 23:31.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | "my" patents are on silly special excel cell features |
| 23:32.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't even know exactly what they are, my employer's company and their lawyers did that |
| 23:34.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway http://neo900.org/stuff/block-diagrams/neo900/neo900.html should go into shop, at least as a bold huge link in "description". I know people like stuff like that, once they find out about the hidden awesomeness |
| 23:36.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/faq and http://neo900.org/resources and http://neo900.org/pre-orders-and-vouchers and http://neo900.org/shop-walk-through/ should go there too |
| 23:37.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | and then some more yet-to-write summary about state of project and the schedule/plans for future |
| 23:37.33 | Wizzup | to be fair they are in the top menu |
| 23:37.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I know |
| 23:37.41 | Wizzup | but yeah, a summary in text would be good |
| 23:38.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh the shop is pathetic so far |
| 23:38.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | we were so glad it finally *worked*, we hardly even searched for good photos for the products |
| 23:40.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway another ~14h in front of PC, most of the time in red-alert mode. Need a break and start my day in RL |
| 23:40.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | bbl |
| 23:46.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | headdesks on idiots on /. |
| 23:47.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>even if this piece of crap will be able to run Android apps (which I doubt), it does not justify the pricetag<< I wonder if he's talking about his recent phone. Jackass |
| 23:48.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | this "piece of crap" is incapable to even read a 50 lines of text before stating shit |
| 23:49.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if he's talking same about his father's old wristwatch he inherited |
| 23:51.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>It. Will. Fail. Period<< *YOU* *ARE* FAIL. Period |
| 23:51.58 | Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: /. comments are always terrible, and I found a lot of people only really seem to care about the price |
| 23:52.18 | Wizzup | even people that I figured would feel different |
| 23:52.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | tell then it will kost 5k |
| 23:52.28 | Wizzup | hehe |
| 23:52.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | but for them, not available for less than 10k |
| 23:53.07 | Wizzup | lol |
| 23:53.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and when they don't get it why, then they have no chance to get it for 20k even |
| 23:54.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | we run tests on our customers if they are adults enough to handle such a powerful dangerous piece of hardware |
| 23:56.30 | Wizzup | ;) |
| 23:56.38 | Wizzup | don't let /. comments get to you |
| 23:56.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | if we wouldn't, NSA would give us a visit and some stern words |
| 23:59.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | we will show our customers what's *inside* the modules. His phone he doesn't even know which modules are inside |