| 00:00.15 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: ah, didn't notice. you must have been unusually discreet about that ;-) |
| 00:01.09 | wpwrak | i may try to order some stuff in a few weeks. i could try to sneak some NFC things into that order |
| 00:02.28 | ZetaR | DocScrutinizer: What do you recommend I work after this? I was thinking about some improvements to I2C current efficiency. |
| 00:03.01 | ZetaR | work on* even. |
| 00:03.29 | *** join/#neo900 Wizzup (~Wizzup@a82-161-36-93.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 00:46.14 | *** join/#neo900 norly (~norly@enpas.org) |
| 01:08.53 | *** join/#neo900 mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@unaffiliated/mvaenskae) |
| 01:21.55 | *** join/#neo900 Humpelstilzchen (~Defiant@x50abd726.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 01:29.07 | *** join/#neo900 illwieckz (~illwieckz@AToulon-256-1-182-51.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 01:39.34 | *** join/#neo900 dal (~dal@37.252.227.85) |
| 03:00.46 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney (~quassel@210.062.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 03:23.33 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney_ (~quassel@53.79-67-202.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 03:40.54 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney (~quassel@115.087.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 03:54.43 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney_ (~quassel@115.087.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 04:18.33 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney (~quassel@144.106.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 05:07.54 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney_ (~quassel@108.103-50-210.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 05:11.42 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney (~quassel@108.103-50-210.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 05:43.10 | *** join/#neo900 cybiko123 (~cybiko123@216-80-103-40.hnc-ubr1.chi-hnc.il.static.cable.rcn.com) |
| 05:43.15 | *** join/#neo900 cybiko123 (~cybiko123@unaffiliated/cybiko123) |
| 06:37.25 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney (~quassel@250.80-67-202.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 06:46.46 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney_ (~quassel@122.020.dsl.nsw.iprimus.net.au) |
| 06:48.28 | *** join/#neo900 dal2 (~dal@customer.tigerbackbone.com) |
| 06:52.04 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney (~quassel@122.020.dsl.nsw.iprimus.net.au) |
| 06:58.47 | *** join/#neo900 trx (ns-team@devbin/founder/trx) |
| 06:59.25 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney (~quassel@122.020.dsl.nsw.iprimus.net.au) |
| 07:02.33 | *** join/#neo900 dal2 (~dal@customer.tigerbackbone.com) |
| 07:11.20 | *** join/#neo900 trx (ns-team@devbin/founder/trx) |
| 07:33.17 | *** join/#neo900 ashneo76 (~ashneo76@c-50-129-228-226.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 07:38.38 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney (~quassel@185.059.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 07:47.28 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney_ (~quassel@185.059.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 07:57.18 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney (~quassel@85.084.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 08:01.48 | *** join/#neo900 arossdotme (~zxy@79-69-206-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 08:02.39 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney_ (~quassel@232.081.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 08:11.10 | *** join/#neo900 paulk-collins (~paulk@gagarine.paulk.fr) |
| 08:13.30 | *** join/#neo900 nicksydney (~quassel@232.081.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 08:20.59 | *** join/#neo900 jonsger (~Thunderbi@213.152.162.89) |
| 08:51.38 | *** join/#neo900 cybiko123 (~cybiko123@216-80-103-40.hnc-ubr1.chi-hnc.il.static.cable.rcn.com) |
| 08:51.41 | *** join/#neo900 cybiko123 (~cybiko123@unaffiliated/cybiko123) |
| 09:48.17 | *** join/#neo900 jonsger1 (~Thunderbi@91.214.169.69) |
| 10:09.54 | *** join/#neo900 cybiko123 (~cybiko123@216-80-103-40.hnc-ubr1.chi-hnc.il.static.cable.rcn.com) |
| 10:09.58 | *** join/#neo900 cybiko123 (~cybiko123@unaffiliated/cybiko123) |
| 12:41.38 | *** join/#neo900 jonsger1 (~Thunderbi@x5f73f222.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 13:01.04 | *** join/#neo900 pabspabspabs (~pabs@unaffiliated/pabs3) |
| 14:00.35 | *** join/#neo900 drathir (~kamiljk8@unaffiliated/drathir) |
| 14:08.02 | *** join/#neo900 drathir (~kamiljk8@unaffiliated/drathir) |
| 14:15.48 | *** join/#neo900 ZetaR (d0a3f67b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.163.246.123) |
| 14:19.23 | *** join/#neo900 drathir (~kamiljk8@unaffiliated/drathir) |
| 15:27.44 | *** join/#neo900 Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 15:48.28 | *** join/#neo900 drathir (~kamiljk8@s51.linuxpl.com) |
| 15:48.43 | *** join/#neo900 drathir (~kamiljk8@unaffiliated/drathir) |
| 16:06.13 | *** join/#neo900 drathir (~kamiljk8@unaffiliated/drathir) |
| 16:22.10 | *** join/#neo900 drathir (~kamiljk8@unaffiliated/drathir) |
| 17:11.45 | *** join/#neo900 cybiko123 (~cybiko123@216-80-103-40.hnc-ubr1.chi-hnc.il.static.cable.rcn.com) |
| 17:11.48 | *** join/#neo900 cybiko123 (~cybiko123@unaffiliated/cybiko123) |
| 17:31.30 | *** join/#neo900 lobito (~lobito@190.177.203.26) |
| 19:25.47 | *** join/#neo900 sparetire_ (~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire) |
| 20:01.55 | *** join/#neo900 arcean (~arcean@nat2.finemedia.pl) |
| 21:01.52 | ZetaR | Are there any plans to add openings for additional slots/buttons/connectors/etc to the side of the spacer? I notice that Digikey has 1.25mm microSD and microSIM push-push slot connectors. |
| 21:02.09 | ZetaR | 1.25mm high* to clarify. |
| 21:02.50 | ZetaR | Examples: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ST10S008V4BR1800/670-2682-1-ND/3929609 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/693021010811/732-5955-1-ND/5047618 |
| 21:05.01 | ilon | DocScrutinizer05: Is the it final not to include battery hotswap capability? That made me really sad when I read it :( |
| 21:05.58 | ilon | I would say existing micro SD card is placed really good |
| 21:06.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ZetaR: we already picked a SIM slot-in holder for dual sim, for this purpose |
| 21:06.22 | ilon | also, as long as I can't get DSDS, I dont care about the sim =/ |
| 21:06.29 | ZetaR | Ah, okay. |
| 21:06.41 | ilon | DocScrutinizer05: still no modem support for it i guess? |
| 21:06.50 | ilon | DocScrutinizer05: or did something change? |
| 21:07.21 | ZetaR | ilon: SIM == smartcard IIRC, so it may have more uses than just SIM depending on how it is connected internally. |
| 21:07.33 | ilon | right |
| 21:07.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ilon: we'll see what can get done, we will squeeze out as long a "bridging time" for fast batt hotswap as we can. But I can't guarantee it will really work. Or it works only for <0.2s. or whatever |
| 21:08.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | NFC can use either of both SIM, and you can use the 2nd (non-active) SIM to read it out from CPU |
| 21:10.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | (NFC) via SWP |
| 21:10.12 | ZetaR | Very nice. So the GNU Fellowship Smartcard should work? |
| 21:10.25 | ZetaR | Wait, that might be a different profile. |
| 21:10.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no, it's not a security threat since we have control over NFC so it can't get activated when user doesn't allow |
| 21:11.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry this forbids use of NFC when battery removed/empty |
| 21:12.06 | bencoh | hmm, I dont get it |
| 21:12.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask! :-) |
| 21:13.20 | bencoh | is there a host-driven mostfet/switch/whatever inside the nfc circuit ? |
| 21:13.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, a complete MCU |
| 21:13.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | between the NFC radio and the SWP/SIM |
| 21:14.08 | bencoh | so the nfc part isnt powered by the "reader" ? |
| 21:14.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 21:14.18 | bencoh | hmm'kay |
| 21:14.18 | ZetaR | This should have the same profile as a SIM card... OpenPGP smartcard: http://www.g10code.de/p-card.html |
| 21:14.38 | bencoh | but it still gets the clock and everything for the transaction to work ? |
| 21:14.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 21:14.52 | bencoh | fun |
| 21:15.26 | bencoh | can it act as a reader as well, or just as a tag ? |
| 21:15.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | it can do everything the radio chip allows. Which is quite a lot |
| 21:16.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | please see werner's very fine NFC whitepaper |
| 21:16.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | we didn't idle the last 6 months |
| 21:16.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 21:16.57 | bencoh | right, I had seen it, but didnt take time to seriously read it ... my bad |
| 21:17.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | the NFC whitepaper is prolly instructional for other phone makers and generally NFC makers |
| 21:18.00 | bencoh | and nfc "hackers" as well |
| 21:18.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure :-) |
| 21:18.17 | bencoh | considering what you've just said about how it should work |
| 21:18.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | we squeezed out the last hacker's joy from that NFC |
| 21:19.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could even implement your own NFC protocol creations |
| 21:19.16 | bencoh | :-) |
| 21:19.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | or snoop, or whatever |
| 21:20.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | the NFC radio chip has certain limitations, but we picked one that we found has least of those |
| 21:23.12 | ZetaR | So just how flexible is the direct mode? The paper seems to imply that it is something like direct RX/TX modulation of the carrier? |
| 21:25.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | sort of, yes |
| 21:25.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | please look up deatils in NFC whitepaper. It's a complex thing not easily discussed / questions-answered here in IRC |
| 21:26.48 | ZetaR | Reference says: "Direct Mode 0 (bit 6 = 0, as defined in ISO Control register) allows the user to use only the front-end functions of the reader, bypassing the protocol implementation in the reader. For transmit functions, the user has direct access to the transmit modulator through the MOD pin (pin 14). On the receive side, the user has direct access to the subcarrier signal (digitized RF envelope signal) on I/O_6 (pin 23)." |
| 21:26.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | so? |
| 21:28.02 | ZetaR | I will just read the TI paper on it, then. Some of it is just a bit confusing to me. |
| 21:31.23 | wpwrak | confusing it is :) a good part of our NFC paper is just about trying to bring a bit of structure into that NFC/RFID zoo ... |
| 21:32.01 | ZetaR | Right, its a very nice and clear paper. |
| 21:32.09 | wpwrak | and yes, in the most direct of direct modes, the MCU directly modulates the carrier (or receives the demodulated carrier) |
| 21:32.16 | wpwrak | thanks ! :) |
| 21:33.51 | ZetaR | Well, it is well deserved. A zoo it is. It seems like a lot of these protocols are multiplied in complexity unnecessarily. |
| 21:39.43 | wpwrak | well, each company wants their pet protocol. so you get one for NXP, one for TI, one for Sony. then each find issues or come up with improvements, and so on ... ;-) |
| 21:40.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900 probably also is one of the most versatile NFC development tools available |
| 21:42.37 | ZetaR | DocScrutinizer05: You know, NFC developers might be interested in a heads up about the Neo900 in case they hadn't already heard of it. |
| 21:44.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I'm aware of that. We need a new advertising campaign which actually lists all the widely unknown smart features of Neo900 |
| 21:45.38 | ZetaR | Hmm, I am going to be out of town in a few days, but I could help out with that after. |
| 21:47.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | appreciated. Thanks |
| 23:14.25 | *** join/#neo900 norly (~norly@enpas.org) |
| 23:19.29 | *** join/#neo900 norly (~norly@enpas.org) |
| 23:53.38 | *** join/#neo900 lobito1 (~lobito@190.177.226.152) |
| 23:53.59 | *** join/#neo900 pabs3 (~pabs@unaffiliated/pabs3) |