| 00:00.53 | wpwrak | other nice things include schematics with some automatic annotations (as "thrown-away" output, not something you'd use for editing), e.g., for pin types or feedback from the BOM generator. very convenient. |
| 00:01.57 | wpwrak | err, s/thrown/throw/ # do not discard before use :) |
| 00:08.49 | chomwitt | DocScrutinizer05: thanks |
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| 01:04.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | chomwitt: you may also wait until newest version finishes upload |
| 01:04.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ETA ~5h |
| 01:05.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | though in 3h I need to restart the upload thanks to dang forced reconnect of my ADSL |
| 01:07.40 | chomwitt | ok. i'm more of a software guy. i mean i cant help in the layout or sth , but i'm intrigued by the use of the Vagrant to establish a common ground for your hw work. |
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| 02:05.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy, sometimes it's not satisfying to fulfill the own legend. I found a way to make kicad spin in an endless busy loop, just spitting out flickering coordinate values in status line. Nothing short of killing the app could stop it |
| 02:06.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | I *guess* I played back a macro that included recording and playing back $self along with some mouse movements and trace drawing ;-P |
| 02:18.14 | wpwrak | kicad has macros ? |
| 02:27.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | err yep, I posted the hotkey list screenshot, there you see them at bottom, ctrl+$[[:num:]] to record, $[[:num:]] to playback, iirc |
| 02:28.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | kicad also has a scripting console with an almost ubearable python help function, but entering pcbnew as command finally reveals some useful info |
| 02:29.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | what sucks big time is: I found no way whatsoever to edit or even just view the macro content |
| 02:29.47 | wpwrak | yes, the python is a bit tricky. alas, only available in pcbnew (so far) |
| 02:30.50 | wpwrak | well, you're ahead of me there. until now i didn't even know there were macros :) (not sure what one would want to use them for, but ...) |
| 02:32.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are two menu points: save macros, load macros |
| 02:33.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | I tried the macros with no immediate visible success, but maybe half a minute or a minute later kicad freaked out |
| 02:33.30 | wpwrak | nice :) |
| 02:35.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I've done what I always tell all users to never do: I git the (macro) key several times in row. Not because I was impatient (as my users usually are) but because I wanted to see the flickering of the tiny indicator showing "recording macro"... alas a fail |
| 02:35.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/git/hit/ |
| 02:36.18 | wpwrak | instead you found the self-destruct sequence. nice :) |
| 02:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | (fail) obviously there's no such indicator |
| 02:36.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | but maybe it was pebkac |
| 02:37.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | hitting "record macro 0" key sequence while recording macro 0 may or may not be a silly thing to do. No idea how to close macro recording |
| 02:38.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe I even hit the "play macro 0" key while recording macro 0, which for sure must be a silly thing to do, no? ;-P |
| 02:41.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | then I also frew a trace while recording macro, and I hoped for that trace getting drawn anew when I playback the macro. Well, according to the coords display in status line that might have worked X-P |
| 02:41.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/frew/drew/ |
| 02:43.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | so when the recorded macro 0 was >>draw trace; play macro 0<<, then I can only complain about one thing: WHERE THE F*SCK is the "macro recording running..." indicator |
| 02:43.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and why the heck can't you abort macro playback with ctrl-C, ESC or whatever |
| 02:46.17 | wpwrak | i guess you don't really need macros, and it's just that nobody got around to remove them. if there are some very simple but highly repetitive actions, you can just edit the design files directly. that's likely to be more reliable. |
| 02:46.25 | sn0wmonster | Is the N900 the only Nokia phone that would likely be used to boot *nix? |
| 02:46.55 | sn0wmonster | I am setting up a category for security discussions on mobile devices, and I want to include Nokia, but there isn't much sense in including *all* Nokia products, as you can't boot/root all of them |
| 02:49.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's N900 and N9, afaikthat's it, the rest was Symbian or WinPhone |
| 02:50.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | N9 is "Maemo" Harmattan alias (sometimes, incorrectly) called Meego, and it's terribly crippled by a security layer called Aegis |
| 02:50.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~aegis |
| 02:50.50 | infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 02:53.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | generally see Nokia Internet Tablets, aka |
| 02:53.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | +nit |
| 02:53.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~nit |
| 02:53.26 | infobot | rumour has it, nit is Nokia Internet Tablet |
| 02:54.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | talk.maemo.org originally been run by a community member unaffiliated to nokia and the name been internettablettalk,org, you still see "ITT" at some places in wiki etc |
| 02:55.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, I dunno why I said that |
| 02:55.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe free association re "internet tablet" |
| 02:56.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | NIT was the only linux series of Nokia afaik, except some true tablets maybe |
| 02:57.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo been on Nokia 770 (no N), N800, N810, N900, N9 |
| 02:58.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | only N900 and N9 had phone functionality |
| 03:06.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you're interested in details how aegis works, just ask. For now it may suffice to say it's a nifty variant of tivoization and everybody hates it |
| 03:12.50 | sn0wmonster | ty! |
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| 03:36.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | (ITT) anyway when you see a google search hit pointing to internettablettalk.xxx, please don't click it, there must be an identical hit under talk.maemo.org and clicking those old links in google will further emphasize them, while they are actually obsolete and should fade out |
| 03:53.00 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: A4 or A3 ? :) |
| 03:58.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | A3, you can either print on 2 A4 or shrink, when you got no A3 printer |
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| 04:01.25 | wpwrak | very well ... will also give us some room to clean up things (like the modem, cough, cough), and mayhaps merge some of the more scattered stuff |
| 04:01.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now the direct transfer may always sit on left side half of the A3, so you can tell printer driver to only print 1,3,5... |
| 04:01.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, that's the idea |
| 04:06.43 | wpwrak | (sit) naw, it's actually off-sheet. so i'm moving them now into A3, delete the "legend" box (kicad has its own), etc. next round will migrate the copyright notice. |
| 04:08.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | no way the latter, it doesn't belong there anyway |
| 04:09.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900 paid for it, Neo900 UG owns it |
| 04:10.32 | wpwrak | yeah, dunno what exactly you agreed on with nik, but in any case, it should at least mention "Neo900" :) |
| 04:11.15 | wpwrak | i've also s/GTA04b7/neo900/g-rf |
| 04:11.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | we didn't agree on anything, so this note is mute |
| 04:11.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | good |
| 04:12.20 | wpwrak | may need a bit of s/neo900/Neo900/ at some point, but one thing at a time. for now it's the coarse stuff. |
| 04:12.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | who paid the work owns the result, as long as no explicit different agreement |
| 04:13.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | heh, the captitals are actually an interesting topic. I dunno if I always been consistent on it either |
| 04:14.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | in filenames etc usually lower case |
| 04:15.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | the name usually leading Capital unless very special situation. URL lower case though |
| 04:15.50 | wpwrak | hmm, with european copyright law (urheberrecht), which is quite different from the us copyright law, there may be some issue with just nuking gdc. might be worth a polite mail to nik. |
| 04:16.24 | wpwrak | (capitalization) yup. for now, i treat everything like a file name. some things aren't, but meh :) (for now) |
| 04:16.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope, particularly German Urheberrecht is very clear on paid work |
| 04:16.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nik been subcontractor of Neo900 UG |
| 04:18.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you explicitly agree different, a subcontractor acts in name and on behalf of the contracting entity, and copyright is part of the value sold to the paying & contracting entity |
| 04:18.58 | wpwrak | yes, but some of the library stuff comes from before. since we'll probably use these libraries (that is, unless i find that the conversion has done something horrible, which is still a possibility), their status would be a bit different. so it depends on what exactly you agreed on back then. or if you didn't specify such details, that should be done asap. |
| 04:19.14 | wpwrak | after all, we'll want to stay on good terms :) |
| 04:19.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, we will mention GDC, but only on second position |
| 04:20.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | mind you, the whole core (which is basically the only stuff that's originating from GTA04) is still missing |
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| 04:21.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | and he didn't even provide the component libraries |
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| 04:33.11 | wpwrak | i also got gems like "Package SOT223-6 doesn't have enough pads for all 10 pins of device TPS73733". well, fortunately only that one of such potential nastiness. a bit of minor bickering, but hopefully harmless. (probably related to the script trying to patch up the layout. now that would be a major leap of AI ;-) |
| 04:36.31 | wpwrak | hmm, interesting. it turned L1601 (NFC/RFID Reader) by 90 deg. apparently completely unprovoked. let's hope that's the worst it did ... |
| 04:36.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 04:37.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | how could this happen for just one random arbitrary component? wouldn't it happen to all rotated components then? |
| 04:39.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | or did the conversion work fine and KiCAD kicked out the orientation due to some DRC or whatever? |
| 04:39.44 | wpwrak | maybe it thought there wasn't enough room for the component |
| 04:39.57 | wpwrak | (it = the converter) |
| 04:40.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, exactly such stuff |
| 04:40.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, I don't expect the comberter applying any such highly sohisticated intelligence |
| 04:40.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | converter* |
| 04:42.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I yet have to look into the ULP, but I'm pretty sure it simply iterates over all components and traces and writes their properties out in another (actually kicad's) syntax |
| 04:43.12 | wpwrak | it had to align everything with the grid. so there most be some heuristics at work. also, the critter ran for more than half a CPU-hour in total (with several interruptions, for dialogs and the occasional complaint). so definitely heavy processing there. |
| 04:43.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui there might be per-sheet net names, which the author mentiones as "this needed quite a dirty hack" |
| 04:44.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | interesting |
| 04:45.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | so let's have a look at this ULP then |
| 04:46.06 | wpwrak | fwiw, this is my transcript: https://neo900.org/stuff/paste/README-Koh1eema |
| 04:46.37 | wpwrak | the timestamps tell you when to stop chatting, so that you don't accidently type into some dialog field :) |
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| 05:58.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> The Eagle pop-ups will appear unannounced and grab the input focus. Keystrokes will therefore end up in Eagle dialogs, changing inputs.<< sounds like a common issue with all desktops |
| 05:59.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | not only with eagle |
| 06:00.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | *smart* programs copy all STDIN to /dev/null in the popup, until 0.5s no further keystroke coming in |
| 06:00.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I possibly get a "Gebrauchsmusterschutz" or a patent on this ;-) |
| 06:01.07 | wpwrak | the main problem here is that it grabs the focus. so even if you're peacefully typing elsewhere, it ends up in that bloody dialog. |
| 06:01.28 | wpwrak | and to make things worse, the dialogs pop up after something like ten minutes of silent computation. |
| 06:01.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, all popups do that usually |
| 06:02.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | they *could* actually pop up without grabbing focus, but that's a rather exotic feature for a window manager, I guess |
| 06:03.20 | wpwrak | and of course, if you screw up the dialog (or aren't sure whether you may have changed something you didn't mean to change), it's do-it-all-over-once-more time |
| 06:04.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I could figure those dialogs don't accept ctrl-Z or ctrl-U or whatever, for 'undo' |
| 06:05.01 | wpwrak | you can press Esc, but ... :) |
| 06:07.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ...but unlike kicad, this will stop the ULP? ;-) |
| 06:14.58 | wpwrak | yeah. then, do-it-all-over-once-more time (which gets boring after a while) |
| 06:17.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I canimagine that. I *seem* to recall there was a speedup trick though for ULP (or was it just scripts? or something completely different?) to disable display update during running the program |
| 06:18.33 | wpwrak | zx81 fast mode ? :) |
| 06:19.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, wondering. No not really, it was something about X11 and not drawing/rendering the stuff done in program/script |
| 06:19.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugh, that was eggsell |
| 06:20.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | XMLMaker |
| 06:20.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | tell eggsell _not_ to update spreadsheet after each singe vlaue insert to a cell |
| 06:21.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | speeds up by factor 50 |
| 06:21.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | n8 |
| 06:23.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.computerwoche.de/a/gsdc-tool-konvertiert-von-excel-in-xml,1064786 |
| 06:25.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | took a year of my life ;-) But *somewhere* must be a patent letter with my name as program developer |
| 06:29.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((update cell content, not calculate whole sheet(s) on that)) you really don't want excel to run across a possibly 10000s of cells with many of them having formulas or content verification attached, when your counter variable of a for( ; ; ) loop literally lives in one of those excel cells ;-P |
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| 14:24.54 | wpwrak | hmm. conversion produced many subtly unconnected signals (in the schematics). they show up as tiny boxes on what looks like healthy connections. will be fun to eradicate ... |
| 14:29.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | makes me aware I didn't even look for a 'search' fubction in kicad |
| 14:29.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | function* |
| 14:30.45 | wpwrak | it's there :) |
| 14:31.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | not to mention the absolutely crazy missing page selector, or did I fail to spot it? |
| 14:31.34 | wpwrak | riddle me this: what does the "IR" on P-OTG on the "OTG" page mean ? "i, robot" ? |
| 14:31.57 | wpwrak | (page sel) go to the front page, double-click on the sub-sheet you want to see |
| 14:31.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 14:32.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | shit yeah, I found this. It's mad |
| 14:32.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | subsheets as objects to click on |
| 14:32.32 | wpwrak | delete ? (y) |
| 14:32.54 | wpwrak | later, we can rearrange the subsheets in a nicer way |
| 14:33.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd like a page number |
| 14:33.09 | wpwrak | but first the coarse cleanup |
| 14:33.34 | wpwrak | there's a page number in the sub-sheet number |
| 14:34.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's pretty useless, or does a hotkey like alt-G <number> exist? |
| 14:34.35 | wpwrak | dunno if you can make such a hotkey |
| 14:35.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I seem to know it's not possibly to view the schematics page after page |
| 14:35.21 | wpwrak | in any case, i think we can reduce the number of sheets by something like half. then navigation will become much easier, too |
| 14:35.36 | wpwrak | generate PDF, then view page by page |
| 14:35.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh no great idea |
| 14:36.22 | wpwrak | works for me :) |
| 14:36.51 | wpwrak | just go with the flow. after a short while you'll find all this quite natural |
| 14:36.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's mad, look at pdf to find out which sheet to click in editor |
| 14:37.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | or: jump forth and back between two adjacent related pages :-( |
| 14:37.49 | wpwrak | but maybe you'll want to wait until the cleanup has progressed a bit more. for now there are many things that are ugly but are not high priority for fixing |
| 14:37.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can assure you I'll never think *that's* any natural |
| 14:38.20 | wpwrak | i.e., first i want to be sure the conversion hasn't left any major issues. but i won't be able to tell before fixing the structure. |
| 14:39.48 | wpwrak | grr. "GND" net "exported" on the OTG page. really ? |
| 14:39.55 | wpwrak | hauls out the nukes |
| 14:40.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno what you refer to re "IR" on P-OTG |
| 14:40.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, nfc |
| 14:41.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is a component introduced (and prolly designed) by Nik |
| 14:41.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and most likely recycled and mod-o-fied from some random other part |
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| 14:42.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | (pages) maybe we found out about pupose of macros, eh? |
| 14:42.56 | wpwrak | so i guess the "IR" can go ? at least it makes no sense to me |
| 14:43.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
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| 14:45.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | (pages) go figure "go page6 to page7" becomes "pick menu 'view - leave sheet', then on main page remember you been on page 6, find page 7 and doubleclick on the symbol" |
| 14:45.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | absolutely unbearable |
| 14:45.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | there' |
| 14:46.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | s also some weird hierarchy viewer |
| 14:46.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I don't want several mouse clicks just to jump to next page |
| 14:48.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | in eagle I at least have http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopnT2277.png which works really great with scrollwheel |
| 14:49.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | it totally absolutely evades me how kicad failed to get something similar |
| 14:49.26 | wpwrak | a complaining joerg is a happy joerg ;-) |
| 14:49.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 14:50.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I already see me hacking software again, something I didn't do for... 4 years or somesuch |
| 14:50.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | kicad begs for improvements |
| 14:51.02 | wpwrak | hope your C++ foo is strong :) then i'd have a little wish list for you ... |
| 14:51.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh I forgot I did that silly little fancy to automatically create the index page as last page of eagle schematics |
| 14:51.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, I suck a C++ |
| 14:52.26 | wpwrak | stares with some hatred at the ugliness that has been faithfully preserved from eagle. well, there shall be a reckoning. but, later ... |
| 14:52.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I only can edit existing code |
| 14:58.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm "find R12" works, "find&replace: R12, R1212" doesn't, it doesn't even *find* R12 |
| 14:59.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | (only edit existing code) I lack the needed experience on all the C++ syntactical madness to write own code efficiently |
| 15:00.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd much rather use Oberon for example, or Delphi (decades ago) |
| 15:02.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | re C++ also many object class hierarchies drive me mad, since in my book they never met any intelligent lifeform |
| 15:03.17 | MonkeyofDoom | implementation inheritance is a terrible idea |
| 15:03.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly, often, yes |
| 15:06.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | then occasionally you run into BS like Qt's rich text edit textbox, which literally creates an object out of every single char. No surprise the memory allocated is $size_of_ASCII_text * 30, and thanks to ~destructor this doubles(!!!) when you close the window with this textbox |
| 15:08.25 | wpwrak | kicad is wx, and you get multi-platform fun with macos and widows added to the mix :) |
| 15:08.47 | MonkeyofDoom | haha, great |
| 15:08.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | was *much* fun when I opened twinklephone's 2MB logfiles in the app's (Qt richtext) local logfile viewer, on a P-II with 128MB, under KDE |
| 15:09.07 | MonkeyofDoom | Qt is one of the better C++ codebases out there... |
| 15:09.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's a maco? a shark? |
| 15:09.48 | MonkeyofDoom | it's the singular of "OS X" |
| 15:10.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah :-D |
| 15:10.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I was wondering which weird dungeon MMRPG wpwrak was talking about |
| 15:11.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | sharks and weeping widows ;-D |
| 15:14.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I'm pretty sure adding a sane page number selector or even just a textbox to type-enter page number numerically is a relatively simple task |
| 15:16.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | what also occurred to me is adding "next page" and "previous page" as those weird sheet 'ison' little squeres to lower right/left of every single schematics sheet |
| 15:16.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | "icon"* |
| 15:17.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/squeres/rectangles/ |
| 15:18.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | when I want to go from page 6 to 7, I really _really_ don't want to jump back to page 1 to find the icon for page 7 to click on it |
| 15:19.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd rather open 38 windows for the 38 sheets of our schematics, than navigating through the schematics in kicad via a star topology centered at page one |
| 15:22.12 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: have you tried clicking on the "Navigate schematic hierachy" icon ? it's transient, but that's a reasonably quick way of jumping |
| 15:22.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I seen that thing, it's a first poor approach to beat some sense into page flipping |
| 15:23.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | make that thing permanently open in a sidebar or hovering little window, and it might be bearable |
| 15:24.20 | wpwrak | maybe suggest it on #kicad ? |
| 15:25.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, eventually |
| 15:27.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now what just hit my mind is: instead of spending time on fixing broken conversion results in kicad schematics editor, by all means we rather should invest the effort introduced by conversion eagle->kicad into improving the converter |
| 15:29.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | *particularly* for obviously buggy stuff (like disconnected networks/wires) that occurs multiple times and is no obvious reason why it might be hard to implement that right |
| 15:30.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ULP is pretty easy to read and understand |
| 15:38.15 | wpwrak | most of the editing is stuff that has different semantics. the converter did just the best it could. |
| 15:38.50 | wpwrak | besides, someone has to go through everything manually anyway, to see if there are any "surprises" |
| 15:38.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I understand that, however I referred to obvious bugs that have no such reason |
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| 15:40.05 | wpwrak | well, not too much of that so far. i got one signal that looked broken (currently at the 5th sheet) |
| 15:40.25 | wpwrak | that is, unintentionally broken |
| 15:40.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | anything "different semantics" long term should get handled by config options to define how to cope with them |
| 15:41.52 | wpwrak | well, we only need to convert the thing once :) |
| 15:42.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | a made up example: eagle uses layer number 1 to 200, kicad uses names layers. Converter needs a config option to define which eagle layer number relates to which names layer in kicad |
| 15:42.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((only need to convert the thing once)) that's exactly the misconception I wanted to correct |
| 15:44.37 | wpwrak | hmm, what else do you plan to convert from eagle to kicad ? |
| 15:44.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | if we'd fix the converter so it produces reliable 100% bug free output, each team member could decide freely which editor to use, and we might also run into situations where we once more want to import (partial) schematics into Neo900 schematics |
| 15:45.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | think core system |
| 15:46.28 | wpwrak | ah, you're saying tht you don't like eeschema. therefore, you want to spend a few months trying to build the perfect converter. yes, makes sense :) |
| 15:46.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, I'm not saying that. Please stop this |
| 15:47.46 | wpwrak | by the way, something that would actually be useful is a proper definition of the frame that goes on all the sheets. kicad's default is very large, and we may want to integrate things like the copyright notice right into the template |
| 15:47.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | this sort of sarcasm is a tad misplaced from somebody who scripts excel sheet edits |
| 15:49.20 | wpwrak | the tool to edit that stuff is called pl_editor. it's a bit on the enigmatic side. i haven't quite figured out how to use it properly. (just managed to clean up the frames for anelok, where the sudden template change created very messy schematics sheets) |
| 15:50.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I accidentally opened it |
| 15:50.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | didn't look into it at all yet |
| 15:52.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | regarding converter, the thing started like 15 years ago iirc what I seen in git. back when eagle had no faintly sane project file format, nowadays it's XML. So maybe writing a C program instead of the ULP would be the more appropriate approach nowadays |
| 15:53.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's also an existing ULP that does export to *.scr eagle scripts which are mere draw and place commands |
| 15:54.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that's more maybe useful for a conversion to kicad |
| 15:54.37 | wpwrak | ah, another kicad feature request: when on a label, have a way to jump to the page(s) that reference it. now that would be crazily useful :) (in eagle, we had those FOO/3.2, which sometimes helped, but even these weren't necessarily complete) |
| 15:55.58 | wpwrak | aah, now comes page 6. the modem. joy. |
| 15:56.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, they don't work in eagle when they are dangling pointers (obviously). But for kicad that would be a very nice way to add "next page" / "previous page" and even index list links to pages |
| 15:56.37 | wpwrak | (next/prev/index) yup |
| 15:57.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | please don't miss a "back" hotkey and taskbar icon, while implementing those :-) |
| 16:00.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | while we're at feature request brainstorming: an undo feature which opens a *list* with the last N (>30, basically unlimited) actions, named and human-readable, and allows to accomplish 17 undos with one select action in the list, would be mad useful too |
| 16:00.59 | wpwrak | (implementing) naw, no C++ for me, thanks :) |
| 16:01.27 | wpwrak | (undo) i hope you realize just how fragile such a thing would be ;-) |
| 16:02.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | sort of implies the "back" button which is just a shortcut for "find last page jump command in list and undo only that. Also a redo list in a similar way like the undo list comes in handy. and when you could save the whole list to a file, you already got your macro generator |
| 16:03.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see how an undo would be fragile |
| 16:04.17 | wpwrak | e.g., if you try to undo something you've changed later |
| 16:04.39 | wpwrak | or something upon which something done later depends |
| 16:05.09 | wpwrak | you'll have some fun designing that dependency graph ;-) |
| 16:05.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't undo selectively. Never, in no environment/app I'm aware of |
| 16:05.47 | wpwrak | ah, you meant to just stack them. i see |
| 16:05.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | undo is a simple rollback, in database speak |
| 16:07.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kicad alread has multi-undo, alas no visible list of what gets undone |
| 16:08.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no true one-click multi-undo of course, due to lack of such list, right? |
| 16:08.27 | wpwrak | grr. modem page, IGT (L16) has an "antenna". even better, it's unconnected. @#$%^ ... |
| 16:09.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | kicad even also has redo already, however again user has no clue what is going to be redone |
| 16:10.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ('antenna') hehehe yes |
| 16:10.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopso2277.png |
| 16:11.19 | wpwrak | already deleted :) |
| 16:11.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess that's an easy exercise |
| 16:11.47 | wpwrak | oh yes. very. and satisfying as well :) |
| 16:11.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | hrhrhr :-D |
| 16:12.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | are you documenting the converter-introduced crap in any form? |
| 16:12.58 | wpwrak | what worries me a bit is that this is the sort of stuff that should show up when running a check. guess nik never got that far ... |
| 16:13.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | nik never runs any checks |
| 16:13.18 | wpwrak | that one's not conversion-introduced |
| 16:13.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know |
| 16:13.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't change my question |
| 16:13.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather confirms it |
| 16:14.36 | wpwrak | and no, so far there's not much worth mentioning. it's mainly conversion of what should be global labels and deletion of converter-generated global labels |
| 16:14.53 | wpwrak | i add TODOs where there are trickier things that need looking at later |
| 16:15.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I guess I will redo that whole process anyway, once to gain practice in kicad, then to debug the converter, and last not least to have a second parallel redundant result to compare to yours |
| 16:15.21 | wpwrak | (so, in a way, nik's dream workflow is coming true ;) |
| 16:15.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is that dream workföow? |
| 16:16.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw I'm pretty happy we use this channel for all this convo |
| 16:16.34 | wpwrak | change annotations in the schematics |
| 16:17.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, yeah sort of, though he rejected that approach too: "NO edits in schematics whatsoever" |
| 16:17.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | except by him |
| 16:17.54 | wpwrak | ah yes, he somehow wanted that on top. well, it's not as if my little TODOs would be easily overlooked :) |
| 16:18.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | he even rejected scripts to automate the edits which I provided |
| 16:19.43 | wpwrak | (todo) e.g., on page 3 (OTG) of https://neo900.org/stuff/paste/neo900-eec7Wu0N.pdf |
| 16:20.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | the "dream workflow" rather is: print the schematics, add annotations and changes using a pencil, scan and send per email, or send physical paper by snailmail |
| 16:20.54 | wpwrak | and don't forget the "apostille". else, there bureaucracy would be insufficient |
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| 16:23.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | could you take care to remove all ">size" labels on all components? |
| 16:25.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe find&replace ">size", "", globally. If that works for you |
| 16:27.19 | wpwrak | yeah, that's for a later pass. i'm now fixing the global labels and any small glitches i spot. there's a number of global changes for later. also, for example, some text size changes, where the converted eagle size looks bad. |
| 16:28.25 | wpwrak | may components need more than just changing >SIZE anyway. so far, i haven't done anything to actually improve readability. |
| 16:29.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, e.g. on pahe3 also the component seems ungrouped |
| 16:29.14 | wpwrak | also, i guess we'll want to rename some of the component references. such that one can actually tell what is a component reference and what isn't. way too many things that are guesswork. |
| 16:29.42 | wpwrak | the ESD ? |
| 16:29.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 16:30.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | looks as if the rectangle is misplaced and too large |
| 16:30.07 | wpwrak | as far as i can tell, that's some of nik's artistic creations |
| 16:30.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang! right, looks exactly same weird way in eagle |
| 16:30.56 | wpwrak | many times when i though i had caught some major screw-up of the converter, i found to my dismay that it actually precisely reproduced something that was already there |
| 16:31.31 | wpwrak | e.g., look closely at the transistor on the modem page :) |
| 16:31.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe, now you understand how I felt reviewing the schematics |
| 16:32.08 | wpwrak | yeah, they're no fun |
| 16:33.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | what exactly would you doubt about converter in T601? |
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| 16:33.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a pretty weird symbol, yes |
| 16:33.51 | wpwrak | look at the tip of the arrow (zoom in) :) |
| 16:34.40 | wpwrak | ah, and another "open" signal. i'm beginning to wonder what they really are ... |
| 16:36.51 | wpwrak | looks like a genuine converter artefact. (between C602 and C603, but you can only see it in eeschema. not even the PDF shows it) |
| 16:39.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | those are mandatory fix in converter |
| 16:40.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | lemme check in eagle |
| 16:42.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | eagle's (or author's) fault, there's a second wire only between C602 and C603 |
| 16:42.23 | wpwrak | ah, great. VMODEM3 bypass GND ends up precisely on VMODEM1. it was bad in eagle, and the conversion just perfected that badness :) |
| 16:42.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | orphaned wire actually |
| 16:43.15 | wpwrak | ah, that's it then |
| 16:43.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopmj2277.png |
| 16:43.25 | wpwrak | the converter is really good. doesn't overlook a single flaw ;-) |
| 16:43.59 | wpwrak | hmm, that looks "normal", doesn't it ? |
| 16:44.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | eagle's ERC should catch that, however alas ERC finds a *bazillion* errors, so it's almost useless |
| 16:44.18 | wpwrak | what i got is a wire that's broken (or such) in the middle |
| 16:45.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, this http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopxZ2277.png is normal |
| 16:45.21 | wpwrak | yeah, i did an ERC run in kicad. afterwards the screen looked like custer's last stand. (kicad uses little arrows to indicate where it found problems) |
| 16:46.05 | wpwrak | (normal) ah, i see. so this confused the converter and it made it a little worse. (but easier to spot :) |
| 16:47.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas not even eahle ERC finds it: http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopUf2277.png |
| 16:48.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | (hint: doubleclick on ERC error list item centers to the error) |
| 16:49.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you checkmark "centered" |
| 16:50.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | once I tried to fix exactly this one ERC error I highlighted in that screenshot. It's pretty much not possible, thanks to limited number of net classes and rules in ERC |
| 16:53.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I.E it seems eagle doesn't distinguish between power source and power sink |
| 16:54.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Vext is a power source iirc. So it's perfectly fine to no connect it to anything |
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| 16:56.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and tbh I failed to grok how to edit the net class of a pin of a component |
| 17:01.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, nevermind, I might be mistaken on what eagle shows and does there, it's possibly to select similar seemingly unconnected signal segments elsewhere too |
| 17:01.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/possibly/possible/ |
| 17:04.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | but NOOOW I found it: http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopFT2277.png |
| 17:05.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | RMB on jointpoint, in "eye" mode |
| 17:06.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopmj2277_1.png |
| 17:08.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | deleted that "antenna", nasty one |
| 17:09.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not surprised we got several of them, seems pretty easy to introduce such crap in eagle, accidentally |
| 17:10.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | please let me know of any other similar "disconnected signals" you find/found |
| 17:11.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | RMB cycles though all objects having a snappoint near cursor |
| 17:12.39 | wpwrak | (eye) ah yes, that's exactly what i got, too |
| 17:14.03 | wpwrak | there was another one .. hmm, i think on the button sheet. camera button, if i recall correctly. |
| 17:16.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup: http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopOw2277.png |
| 17:17.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | deleted that too |
| 17:18.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | I gather you can't even delete in your eagle trial version? |
| 17:18.36 | wpwrak | dunno. i deleted it in kicad :) |
| 17:18.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | could you provide an example for the semantic fixes needed? |
| 17:20.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | (kicad) how do you spot those glitches in kicad? |
| 17:21.40 | wpwrak | right now the main changes are deletion of the little global labels the converter puts everywhere and bringing back to life the original labels. there, i edit the name (FOO/10.1 -> FOO) and i also set the direction (input/output/bidir/etc.). then i move them onto the grid (since the converter put them off-grid) |
| 17:22.17 | wpwrak | (glitches) the "antennas) have a little square at the open end. so when i spot such a square, i check with the original, then delete and redraw |
| 17:23.01 | wpwrak | further down the line, ERC should also find such things. so if i miss some, that's not a big deal. |
| 17:23.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah smart of kicad |
| 17:23.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw I spotted a offset joint in http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopZS2277.png |
| 17:24.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | possibly caused by the 'antenna' ? |
| 17:27.05 | wpwrak | i'm not even sure how to interpret these weird switch symbols |
| 17:30.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy! FFS! http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopyy2277.png |
| 17:34.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: still butt-fugly but http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopXI2277.png |
| 17:37.06 | wpwrak | i'm a bit undecided which is worse ;) |
| 17:38.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, how about a third option to appoint fuggly-of-the-day? http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktoptQ2277.png |
| 17:39.49 | wpwrak | ah yes, that's better |
| 17:39.58 | wpwrak | lemme steal the idea ... |
| 17:40.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | feel free to... :-) |
| 17:47.53 | wpwrak | btw, the modem page is very much not what we've specified in simsw |
| 17:48.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopXl2277.png |
| 17:48.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah |
| 17:48.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | not exactly |
| 17:48.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and puzzling like hell |
| 17:49.06 | wpwrak | update, with modem sanitized: https://neo900.org/stuff/paste/neo900-Eig7lee3.pdf |
| 17:49.18 | wpwrak | at least now one can better see what's wrong :) |
| 17:51.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | paghe 8 still a nightmare |
| 17:52.35 | wpwrak | i only got to 7 so far :) |
| 17:52.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I have a pretty hard time even getting what's going on at all there |
| 17:52.48 | wpwrak | in any case, pg 8 is basically junk |
| 17:52.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 17:53.00 | wpwrak | nothing good :) |
| 17:53.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | SIM on p.7 is tag:nuke |
| 17:54.13 | wpwrak | for now, i limit myself to not correcting any design problems, and just leave a remark when it gets too painful. don't want to mix too many different types of changes. |
| 17:54.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | you got the TODO but p.8 obsoletes both the SIM and the TODO |
| 17:54.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah ok |
| 17:54.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, sane approach |
| 17:55.14 | wpwrak | (nuke) indeed |
| 17:55.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I love how almost all offsheets on p.7 are uncluttered now |
| 17:56.05 | wpwrak | yeah, i tried but couldn't resist cleanup that up at least a little |
| 17:56.29 | wpwrak | but i understand why nik didn't do it. that was really a hard minute of work ... |
| 17:56.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 17:57.28 | wpwrak | ah, and i deleted the second MODEM-CD_A. one is plenty ;-) |
| 17:57.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw what the heck? this isn't A3, is it? |
| 17:58.05 | wpwrak | this is A3 |
| 17:58.14 | wpwrak | the original was A4, i think |
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| 17:58.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | then kicad zoomed everything up to fill just as much space as in eagle on A4 |
| 17:58.29 | wpwrak | so i have a bit of extra space |
| 17:58.58 | wpwrak | naw, size should be more or less identical |
| 17:59.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm ok not really |
| 17:59.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, it just still looks crammed |
| 17:59.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW too large and too few symbols per sheet |
| 18:00.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | this impression might change once I print that stuff to an actual A3 sheet |
| 18:01.37 | wpwrak | just set the page to A4, and it would fit. well, without the labels i've added on the left side |
| 18:01.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest introducing a "module" approach, including e.g. all the SIMMUX stuff from page 8 on page 7 as a 'blackbox |
| 18:02.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll eventuaklly elaborate on that |
| 18:02.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now nevermind |
| 18:03.43 | wpwrak | we just need the SIM bus and CD. simmux has a lot more. those few signals that are needed on the modem page will look clean even if we don't do anything more elaborate than bundling them. |
| 18:03.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually for _this_ the sheet symbols in kicad may come in pretty handy |
| 18:04.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | using them like components |
| 18:05.04 | wpwrak | yeah, never tried to have more than one layer of sub-sheets. not sure how convenient / messy that gets. but it's something we can play with. |
| 18:05.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope one schematics can have multiple icon boxes for same sheet? |
| 18:05.28 | wpwrak | not sure about that :) |
| 18:05.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | try copy? |
| 18:06.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind, i'll test that |
| 18:07.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | #FFS, kicad handles sheet symbols completely different than components |
| 18:07.37 | wpwrak | it lets me copy the subsheet symbol, and it works, but i can't use the same sheet name (though the file name can be shared) |
| 18:07.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm? |
| 18:07.56 | wpwrak | in kicad terminology, "component" == "symbol" |
| 18:07.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't find a way to copy |
| 18:08.20 | wpwrak | i marked a block, saved, went to the modem page, pasted |
| 18:08.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopoi2277.png |
| 18:09.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | hah, you h4x0r ;-) |
| 18:09.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bet you'll also find methods to bust kicad ;-)) |
| 18:10.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | even without exploiting macros |
| 18:10.33 | wpwrak | haven't been very successful at crashing it lately :) |
| 18:11.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not successful to copy what you did |
| 18:11.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can mark a block but then it seems locked in move mode |
| 18:12.28 | wpwrak | block-select the subsheet. right-click and select "Save Block" |
| 18:12.43 | wpwrak | doble-click on destination subsheet |
| 18:13.03 | wpwrak | click on the little pasteboard symbol (or right-click, etc.) |
| 18:13.31 | wpwrak | you'll see that the subsheet title changes to sheet<junk> when pasting |
| 18:14.35 | wpwrak | that's eeschema enforcing unique names. but it doesn't seem to mind the file being the same. however, i suspect that this may create a 2nd instance of the subsheet content. not sure, though. |
| 18:15.01 | wpwrak | anyway, for me it's lunch or death now. i'll make the non-heroic choice. |
| 18:16.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopyd2277.png |
| 18:16.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | for me breakfast |
| 18:18.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | pretty good we got a reference instance of KiCAD ;-) |
| 18:18.35 | wpwrak | (error) seems that you tried to create a loop ;-) |
| 18:18.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess we don't want to try and follow this path any further |
| 18:19.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | not before this is officially tackled and fixed in upstream |
| 18:20.04 | wpwrak | loops ? not sure they plan to support that :) |
| 18:20.19 | wpwrak | anyway, food |
| 18:20.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopKO2277.png |
| 18:21.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | no loop of any kind |
| 18:22.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopmh2277.png |
| 18:24.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/17/plasma-desktopag2277.png |
| 18:26.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>The sheet changes cannot be made because the destination sheet already has the sheet <ampli_ht.sch> or one of it's subsheets as a parent somewhere in the schematic hierarchy.<< says that the sheet I want to place this symbol *to* is already a subsheet |
| 18:30.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe it tells me that the parent sheet of the sheet-symbol (*-horizontal) I want to place there (*-vertical) is already something different (main sheet #1), so it can't get changed to point to this sheet (*-vertical) as parent sheet of *-horizontal |
| 18:31.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | which makes some sense |
| 18:31.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | a child sheet can't have two parent sheets - weird critters those sheets, always only one parent |
| 18:33.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually that's a rather silly implementation limitation, in fact kicad could keep a stack to "return from subroutine" on 'leave sheet', wherever we came from |
| 18:33.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | It could also ignore the confligt and simply warn that 'leave sheet' won't return to this subsheet but rather to the main sheet. But noooo... |
| 18:34.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | conflict* |
| 18:35.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels more silly than COBOL, which at least dynamically wrote the return address to the end of a subroutine - this was much fun for recursive programming but at least it allowed callingg a subroutine from more than one location |
| 18:37.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | subsheet symbolsa, my ass. Who gave the devels THAT idea? |
| 18:38.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | no EE in a sane mind would really want that pseudo-nifty eyecand crap |
| 18:40.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a *totally* useless concept prolly driven by a ObjectOriented coding mindset |
| 18:41.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | "how could we implement multi sheet? AAH I got it, our sheet object can have a child scheet object" |
| 18:42.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | headdesks |
| 18:47.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | now what we need is a method to iterate through all the sheet objects until one of them shouts "That's me!" on the page number provided as parameter |
| 18:48.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | how much simpler the world would have been, had they used a linked list for all the sheets |
| 18:49.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorted by... TADAAA you guessed it: pagenumber |
| 18:49.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | but a linked list, OMG that's not OO at all |
| 18:51.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly on topic regarding my recent rant about brainless object hierarchy in OO |
| 18:51.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | a sheet has no child sheets, they are all syblings and childs of the project |
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| 19:15.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: wb |
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| 19:52.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: you asked ahycka about her notion regarding KiCAD? |
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| 20:43.03 | wpwrak | ah, one suckish conversion thing seem to be the "NC" pins (crossed-out). they're actually some "NC component", which is quite bogus. kicad has explicit NC marking. it looks almost the same, except that no circle (indicating that it's not properly connected to anything) is drawn at the end of the pin. |
| 20:43.51 | wpwrak | so that'll be the topic of another editing phase. maybe on the *.sch directly. |
| 20:44.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, isn't that easy enough to replace? |
| 20:44.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I got nfc where the eagle NC crosses came from |
| 20:44.41 | wpwrak | i need to resurrect my pin type annotation tools, so that we can check such things more efficiently, without having to manually poke around. |
| 20:45.17 | wpwrak | (replace) yeah, delete NC component, switch to "Place no-connected flag", place flag. done. |
| 20:46.29 | wpwrak | anyway, that'll be an easy one. on with the initial purge ... |
| 20:46.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just wasted a bit of time investigating how to create a hotkey shortcut for Alt+V:H:Right:Enter - alas to no success since VirtualBox doesn't read kbd input on that high abstraction level, I'd probably need a tool that emulates raw keycodes rather than X-key_events |
| 20:47.09 | wpwrak | yuck :) |
| 20:47.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I conveniently postponed breakfast this way |
| 20:48.30 | wpwrak | oh, there's a nice insight into how the converter works on the sim switch page: in eagle, MODEM-CD_A is well above VSIM of U701D. after conversion, they're vertically aligned. so it's really trying pretty hard to make sense of things. |
| 20:48.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | the irony: it would probably work in native KiCAD, however not for a VBox with KiCAD in it. And in VBox / xfce I don't have hotkey tools |
| 20:49.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | macros are gone in daily |
| 20:50.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | python scripting in EEschema might come eventually |
| 20:50.39 | wpwrak | don't you have a spare machine you could convert to some debian derivate ? that would solve the vbox issues. i mean, for a while what you're doing will work, but at some point you'll probably want to be able to use the opengl canvas, even if only to experiment with things. |
| 20:51.04 | wpwrak | (python & eeschema) yes, i've heard so for some time, years :) |
| 20:51.24 | wpwrak | (macros gone in daily) ah, interesting |
| 20:52.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | for openGL canvas I'd need a machine with a graca that supports openGL, aiui |
| 20:52.46 | wpwrak | (macros) april 16: "Like Wayne wrote, the macro code has some issues, never fixed, which make the macros hard to use, or not usable by most of users:" |
| 20:53.32 | wpwrak | anything halfway recent and decent should do. you don't need top-notch gfx. |
| 20:54.11 | wpwrak | so some core whatever ought to be fine. just avoid atoms. or pretty much anything with a dedicated gfx card. even fan-less will do. |
| 20:54.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | on my workstation it seems openGL is not supported, uses built-in graphics |
| 20:54.46 | wpwrak | what cpu does it have ? |
| 20:54.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I5 |
| 20:54.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | i5 even |
| 20:55.08 | wpwrak | using built-in intel graphics ? |
| 20:55.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 20:55.22 | wpwrak | i guess that should be more than enough |
| 20:55.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm |
| 20:57.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess I finally have to find a way to linux-dualboot the win7 box |
| 20:57.09 | wpwrak | the "opengl" is more about api than about acceleration. in any case, it's mainly 2D acceleration anyway, just happens to use the 3D hw (which is how everyone does it these days. nobody really builds 2D accelerators anymore.) |
| 20:57.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | last time I tried, I nuked the win7 install |
| 20:57.34 | wpwrak | sounds like victory ;-) |
| 20:57.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, since this box is a dedicated windows box |
| 20:58.28 | wpwrak | poor box :) |
| 20:58.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't think I'd even need a second better linux box, but I for sure need a win7 box sometimes, e.g. for TI pinmux |
| 20:59.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/even/ever/ |
| 20:59.30 | wpwrak | from the post about macros: "Record is not protected against re-entrance (which can happen by mistake). Try to type <1> during recording sequence of macro 1." i guess this sounds familiar :) |
| 20:59.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah indeed |
| 21:00.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I found out instantly ;-P |
| 21:00.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually my strongest skill |
| 21:00.59 | wpwrak | meh. i'll skip the sim switch sheet for cleanup. that one needs a total rewrite anyway. |
| 21:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 21:01.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I need breakfast now, for good |
| 21:01.56 | wpwrak | hurry ! lest it becomes tomorrow's breakfast : |
| 21:01.57 | wpwrak | ) |
| 21:02.40 | wpwrak | now the antenna connections. phew. |
| 21:02.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 21:03.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | sucks to be me |
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| 23:38.49 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: another partial wire: audio headset + mic, between R1205/R1206 and MIC-ECI |
| 23:54.40 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: another partial wire: audio headset + mic, between R1205/R1206 and MIC-ECI |
| 23:54.49 | wpwrak | oops |
| 23:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | what about the camera trigger switch, where was that one? was it really a wrong wire? |
| 23:57.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw "type: gate"??!? |
| 23:57.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/18/plasma-desktopTi2277.png |
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| 23:57.55 | R0b0t1` | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femtocell |
| 23:58.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | err wut? |
