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| 00:44.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://community.giffgaff.com/t5/General-Discussion/Anyone-heard-of-Copperhead-OS-Android/m-p/18387867#M2874952 |
| 00:46.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | note that not even Neo900 (should I say particularly not Neo900) hw would stop you from installing any such malware |
| 00:47.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | but unlike many other phone OS Neo900 OS (whatever you choose it to be) usually won't _force_ such malware on your system |
| 00:47.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's you knowingly or unknowingly but explicitly installing it |
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| 15:51.50 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: how goes layout lately? |
| 15:52.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene reported back a 2 days ago that ahycka will want to do it next week |
| 15:54.08 | enyc | err finalize the layout? |
| 15:56.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 15:58.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | well not finalize next week |
| 15:58.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | start working on it next week |
| 15:58.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | she wasn't available this month for holidays |
| 15:59.36 | enyc | nods |
| 15:59.45 | enyc | i'm very used to people off-on-holiday left/right/centre scenario! |
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| 20:05.35 | atk | I think it would be worthwhile to update the cost estimates page with the latest cost estimates but also to provide some more graphs and tables of how costs might possibly be reduced if the device sells more than 500 units. I also think that the price estimates should be more accessible from the website (right now you need to go to the FAQ and find a link, I don't know of any easier way to get there). |
| 20:06.29 | atk | I think if we get some kind of mention from organisations like the FSF we can definitely get more than 500 people who want a private phone but it might be more enticing to those extra people if they see that a smaller price would be possible. |
| 20:06.53 | atk | (I sent the FSF that email I was promising, I also think I'll send one at the EFF and a few other places.) |
| 20:07.37 | atk | (I have my doubts that there are as little as 500 people on this earth who want a truly private and free phone.) |
| 20:29.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, good points, alas we can't currently source unlimited amounts of mech parts aka N900 |
| 20:31.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | we first need to finally show off a working proto_v2, then we *might* consider what to do about volume. Heck I even might imagine we do a kickstarter for 5000 units and get our own custom made mech parts |
| 20:32.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | but all this is mere handwaving as long as we can't show off a working prototype |
| 20:44.00 | bencoh | atk: the question is rather "how many of those are willing to spend 1200e on it" |
| 20:44.35 | atk | Ah, alright, the working prototype is key |
| 20:44.37 | atk | I see |
| 20:44.37 | bencoh | (especially considering that final product hasn't been released, and software status is still .... pending) |
| 20:45.27 | atk | Software is unimportant, at least I think this, if it's freemantle compatible, maemo will work, but I'd also think that people would be willing to put work into porting anything they want to it. I even have personal plans for a custom voidlinux based phone OS and UI for it for myself. |
| 20:46.20 | bencoh | atk: maemo is still non-free |
| 20:46.33 | atk | All of it or parts of it? |
| 20:46.35 | bencoh | at least if you want a usable dailyuse phone |
| 20:46.47 | atk | Hmm which parts? |
| 20:47.01 | atk | Is there a good list of parts which are non-free? |
| 20:47.06 | bencoh | middleware stuff, mainly rtcom |
| 20:47.37 | atk | rtcom? |
| 20:47.41 | atk | something radio related? |
| 20:47.42 | bencoh | phone/sms handling |
| 20:47.49 | atk | ah |
| 20:47.59 | atk | Are the interfaces well defined? |
| 20:49.47 | bencoh | https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages |
| 20:50.29 | atk | Ah |
| 20:50.37 | atk | Hmm |
| 20:50.57 | atk | Does this stuff need to be done this year or can it way until the start of next year/ |
| 20:51.10 | bencoh | ? |
| 20:51.39 | atk | I would love to help but I'm tied up for this year, first I need to get rid of a major time sink and replace it with some time to read a few important books and then I can definitely try to help with any kind of C programs that need writing for Neo900. |
| 20:54.31 | bencoh | ah, well then I'd suggest to check with fmg/pali/jonwil on which part your help would be most appreciated :) |
| 20:54.47 | atk | I see |
| 20:57.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~fptf |
| 20:57.34 | infobot | rumour has it, fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 |
| 21:00.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | the idea being that a fremantle will work ideally OOTB on the device. We have 2 topics that need work: test (and possibly fix) of PVR driver, and the whole modem integration. For voice calls it should be almost a nobrainer to link Neo900 modem up to a local asterisk instance and connect to that one via fremantle's SIP accounts |
| 21:00.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | for SMS and generic network control things are more intricate |
| 21:01.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | BME is not compatible too, but Neo900 will not need anything like a BME to work, even for charging. |
| 21:02.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | then there's also hw kbd which might or might not need a new kernel driver. No big thing |
| 21:06.48 | bencoh | pyra folks are currently working on omap5/pvr driver adaptation, btw |
| 21:11.25 | atk | I would not mind getting into kernel development to help Neo900 |
| 21:11.39 | atk | I would be incredibly happy if the Neo900 could work entirely off the mainline. |
| 21:12.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | it can |
| 21:13.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | however mainline has pretty poor apps for telephony etc |
| 21:14.11 | atk | (applications, please, we don't stoop as low as apps here) |
| 21:14.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | ooh camera might also be pretty subpar on mainline, without the nokia blobs for picture enhancement |
| 21:14.51 | atk | You mean few applications for dialling and SMS support working on the mainline? |
| 21:15.05 | atk | Why would picture enhancement require blobs? |
| 21:15.13 | atk | Would I get sued if I tried to RE the blobs? |
| 21:15.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | no |
| 21:15.39 | atk | Good |
| 21:15.45 | atk | That sounds right up my alley |
| 21:15.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | :) |
| 21:17.13 | atk | So the blobs are not patented or covered under any licenses that prohibit reverse engineering them, even if I go down to physically disassembling them and working out what they do and then reimplementing the same details in the kernel? |
| 21:17.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | camera doen't *need* blob libs for working, but nokia provided some custom stuff tailored to improve pic quality |
| 21:18.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | well they are but nobody is interested in prosecuting any violations anymore |
| 21:18.45 | atk | Are you sure microsoft won't? |
| 21:18.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | there are no blobs in kernel |
| 21:19.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes, pretty much. afaik MS didn't buy maemo |
| 21:19.53 | atk | Are these blobs in the form of a library or in the form of a OOT module? |
| 21:20.09 | atk | What about patent trolls? |
| 21:20.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | and proving RE isn't exactly simple anyway |
| 21:20.41 | atk | No, but it's scary that RE is even illegal to begin with (it's mind boggling how you can ban someone from taking something apart and telling someone else how it works. |
| 21:21.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | they only can enforce that if you signed their EULA |
| 21:21.47 | atk | Ah, and I didn't sign any EULA, wonderful. |
| 21:21.53 | atk | Apparently EULAs are meaningless anyway. |
| 21:23.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | we (neo900 ug) must not provide or ship full fremantle. However hardly anybody will sue you when you download it elsewhere and use it |
| 21:24.21 | atk | :P |
| 21:26.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | plus maemo community got a generic OK from Nokia to use and rework and redistribute non commercially any maemo parts iirc |
| 21:26.55 | atk | I am starting to like the sound of nokia more and more, and hating microsoft for screwing it into the ground more and more. |
| 21:27.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | by Quim Gill |
| 21:28.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | afk, sorry |
| 21:31.28 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer51: I'm pretty sure you dont need those blob to make fcam)drivers work |
| 21:33.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | as I said you don't need them, they just improve quality afaik. I'm not even sure about the situation |
| 21:34.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | fcam drivers might be a valid replacement |
| 21:34.47 | sixwheeledbeast | there's a name I haven't heard in a while |
| 21:36.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~closed |
| 21:36.31 | infobot | methinks closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages, or http://elinux.org/N900 |
| 21:37.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | re OMAP5 PVR, this is a whole different critter, not useful for OMAP3 PVR :-/ |
| 21:38.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly hope when Pyra gets available, some brave curious gifted devel will try to port fremantle to that device, to see how much we can get working on OMAP5 |
| 21:39.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | again, see: |
| 21:39.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~fptf |
| 21:39.24 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 |
| 21:39.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://omappedia.org/wiki/Maemo_Getting_Started#Beagle |
| 21:44.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1nvwLpvHW0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhEj8-p36Jk |
| 21:55.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly the core stuff should be working OOTB |
| 21:55.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just what I listed above that possibly needs some patches or tweaks |
| 21:55.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | some stuff for sure will need: modem for example |
| 21:56.10 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer51: actually my point was that I still believe it's a pity we didnt choose that platform as well |
| 21:56.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | hm? omap5? too large |
| 21:56.31 | bencoh | (regardless of whatever potential binary compat issuesà |
| 21:56.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no OS from beginning, to stzart with |
| 21:57.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and when Neo900 idea came up, there wasn't even any OMAP5 available, it was still vaporware for mere mortals like us |
| 21:58.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, afk again |
| 22:01.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | so far nobody even demonstrated how to run a free fremantle on N900 |
| 22:03.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | though that been demanded for a several times and should be pretty easy to accomplish, at least to the point where we get to know what blobs are roadblocks and actually needed to still RE or "steal" from non-free fremantle |
| 22:04.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | even the mere act of "stealing" hasn't been demonstarted yet |
| 22:04.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | except for |
| 22:04.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lazyflashing |
| 22:04.43 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, lazyflashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach |
| 22:05.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | which basically is a first very tiny humble step into the right direction |
| 22:05.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | afk |
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| 22:22.51 | atk | The spider which used to be in the corner of my ceiling has ventured down to the floor, up my desk, down my desk, and now back up the wall to its ceiling corner. |
| 22:23.11 | atk | Actually, it is now migrating to another ceiling corner. |
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| 23:12.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | atk: well, moving your home needs thorough planning, even for spiders |
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| 23:49.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | the spider stepped back and had a look at the large picture before it signed the contract for the new corner |
| 23:50.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I would probably do the same ;-) |
| 23:51.23 | atk | This precisely explains its activity. |