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| 00:22.47 | *** topic/#neo900 is http://neo900.org | CCCAMP15 lightning talks at http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/ - major: http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/ccc2015talk/neo900-wpwrak_CCC2015.webm | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ and http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900 | Latest news: http://neo900.org/news/joerg-pia-2018-03-01 |
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| 19:56.31 | enyc | Joerg-Neo900: ok im curious now what "21:55 <+Joerg-Neo900> houkime: great" about... my machines were all down on reboot and updates ad losnt history! |
| 20:01.00 | Joerg-Neo900 | sorry, pastebin freaks out, so here the 3 lines |
| 20:01.08 | Joerg-Neo900 | [2018-05-04 Fri 20:29:15] <houkime> ooopsie, seems like Arch updates have broken eeshow. Trying to recompile |
| 20:01.09 | Joerg-Neo900 | [2018-05-04 Fri 20:36:33] <houkime> recompilation helps. all ok. |
| 20:01.11 | Joerg-Neo900 | [2018-05-04 Fri 22:55:45] <Joerg-Neo900> houkime: great |
| 20:39.32 | sicelo | enyc: also, this channel has public logs :) |
| 20:40.19 | enyc | updates break package... reminds me of gentoo ;p |
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| 20:51.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | isn't arch similar to gentoo somewhat? |
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| 20:52.22 | Joerg-Neo900 | never looked into it |
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| 20:57.05 | *** topic/#neo900 is http://neo900.org | CCCAMP15 lightning talks at http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/ - major: http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/ccc2015talk/neo900-wpwrak_CCC2015.webm | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ and http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900 | Latest news: http://neo900.org/news/joerg-pia-2018-03-01 |
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| 20:57.15 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: seemingly arch can compeile much sutff from source, but doesn't have to, or something... |
| 20:57.27 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: derivatives of arch popular too, seemingly |
| 20:57.44 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: have you sorted out all your linux distro / opensuse / workspace realtad fun? |
| 20:58.14 | enyc | i recall there was a time you were having trouble with build-environemnt and difficilty not wanting to change systems and break stuff |
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| 21:05.46 | houkime | Arch doesn't _have_to_ compile everything from source. Arch binary repositories are usually latest-official-release. |
| 21:06.19 | houkime | however Arch HAS a great community support for compiling from sources |
| 21:06.42 | houkime | Community compiling support is done via AUR. |
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| 21:07.55 | houkime | AUR contains PKGBUILDs - scripts for a built-in packaging system |
| 21:09.07 | houkime | PKGBUILDs can (and in many cases do) fetch latest sources from git, compile and package them. |
| 21:10.09 | houkime | PKGBUILDs are maintained by humans and if maintained correctly can compile stuff without your own interference. |
| 21:10.17 | enyc | houkime: hrrm....... =) |
| 21:10.39 | enyc | houkime: makes sense, so gives you the possibility to do gentoo-like build-new-stuff and custom-build flags |
| 21:10.48 | enyc | Oooohoh how I remember gentoo flags |
| 21:10.49 | houkime | yep, exactly |
| 21:11.16 | houkime | you can change makeflags on system level and also for each PKGBUILD |
| 21:11.26 | enyc | houkime: what fun is happenig with the proto_v2 layout, anyway?? ;-) |
| 21:13.11 | houkime | well, I moved some esds to LOWER (sim ones and one more) |
| 21:13.49 | houkime | I wanted this for stuff that is too short in terms of traces to be protected locally |
| 21:14.38 | houkime | I understood that I cannot really account for a case where BOB is not connected to LOWER but to userboard |
| 21:15.37 | houkime | And now I have some troubles with usb chips |
| 21:15.54 | bencoh | usb chips? |
| 21:16.41 | houkime | the guys that process usb signal from the port |
| 21:17.01 | bencoh | the transceiver you mean? |
| 21:25.16 | houkime | ooops, sorry. Wrong one. No, this one is a charger. |
| 21:26.37 | houkime | It now needs to get quite displaced because of connectors. |
| 21:27.32 | houkime | there was one configuration where it could be quite ok to be almost on it's metacollin's place |
| 21:28.26 | houkime | buuuut because of sd holder keepout zones which got interleaving with through hole stuff this wasn't really feasible |
| 21:29.00 | houkime | *colliding. not interleaving |
| 21:30.32 | houkime | and also this config was quite risky on its own( |
| 21:30.44 | houkime | *esd-wise |
| 21:35.53 | houkime | actually quite sad. I spent some time (maybe too much of it) to find some way to justify it. |
| 21:36.50 | houkime | and now the thing is that D+- pair that goes from the port to a charger |
| 21:38.27 | houkime | actually creates a stub because ther trace to a charger is much shorter than the one that actually goes to UPPER and beyond. |
| 21:42.22 | houkime | I actually heard that usb D+- is not THAT sensitive (like some others) but still a little bit of concern. |
| 21:46.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | very short T deadebds might not hurt too much, The idea abywat was to run one straight pair from receptacle over HB conatct-vias over charger chip over LOWER2UPPER to SoC |
| 21:47.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | anyway* |
| 21:47.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | with according ESD prot etc on it |
| 21:50.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | this would create a via-port stub when using HB USB but would be stub-free for the common port-connected USB |
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| 21:55.46 | houkime | by HB contact-vias you mean pogos? |
| 21:56.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes, the Vias where those contact to |
| 21:57.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | actually pads with a center drill to hold the pogos' tips in place |
| 21:57.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | just use a via for that |
| 21:59.16 | houkime | ok, understood. I though about that, but these things would be quite skewed if put directly on a pair. |
| 21:59.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | could also serve for user soldering post connectors or wires there |
| 21:59.27 | houkime | too much distance between them |
| 22:00.13 | houkime | signal gets delayed in-between pogos. |
| 22:00.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes you have a length skew between D+ and D- on HB, we should elaborate on how to compensate that on the user attache PCB |
| 22:01.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | ideally route tuned pair to center between the two pogo pads and then split right/left |
| 22:04.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | then do same but inverse for the way from HB pads towards SoC |
| 22:04.27 | houkime | not really feasible to do it split way. Electrical properties difference between scenario "two near" and ("7 mm apart") is biggie. This will create something like a phase transition border and signal will be deflected. |
| 22:05.43 | houkime | actually the same stands for the difference between "pair in a board" and "7 mm apart in the air over pogos" |
| 22:05.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | we may test RealLive with a slaughtered USB cable |
| 22:06.23 | houkime | that was my thought too. |
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