| 02:08.00 | decriptor | sontek: ping |
| 02:13.45 | sontek | decriptor: hey |
| 02:17.24 | decriptor | sontek: you ready to talk about banter? |
| 02:30.39 | sontek | sure |
| 02:31.34 | sontek | the big thing i've been thinking about lately is the interface |
| 02:31.48 | sontek | Calvin documented their plans for the interface, but I don't know if they'll work |
| 02:31.58 | decriptor | where is htat |
| 02:32.00 | decriptor | one gnome? |
| 02:32.03 | decriptor | do you have a link |
| 02:32.04 | sontek | I want to take a simplistic approach (like Tomboy and Giver) |
| 02:32.09 | sontek | yeah its on the wiki |
| 02:32.17 | decriptor | you sent me a link? |
| 02:32.36 | sontek | Heres screenshots of what it currently looks like: http://live.gnome.org/Banter/ZeroPointOne/Screenshots |
| 02:33.09 | sontek | Here are mockups of what they planed: http://live.gnome.org/Banter/Design/MainWindow |
| 02:33.14 | sontek | http://live.gnome.org/Banter/Design/ChatWindow |
| 02:33.34 | sontek | I kind of like the interface because it matches with the rest of openSUSE's applications |
| 02:33.59 | sontek | But we also need to think about the current usability complaints of that design |
| 02:34.59 | sontek | http://img482.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tabbedappbrowserho1.png |
| 02:35.08 | sontek | thats a screenshot of some suggested changes to more applications menu |
| 02:36.57 | sontek | I like their mockups though |
| 02:37.36 | sontek | The one thing they lacked in the interface was multiple protocols |
| 02:46.03 | sontek | decriptor: you are boring me! |
| 02:47.28 | decriptor | sorry |
| 02:47.35 | decriptor | looking and reading all that suff |
| 02:47.36 | decriptor | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:47.49 | decriptor | so we worry about the backend before the frontend |
| 02:48.04 | decriptor | in other words, build out the 'engine' of the app |
| 02:48.17 | decriptor | and then go back and clean up the interface |
| 02:52.00 | decriptor | sontek: you are boring me! |
| 02:52.01 | decriptor | :P |
| 02:54.41 | sontek | decriptor: The interface is the important party in my mind |
| 02:54.52 | sontek | decriptor: the majority of the backend is going to be driven by telepathy |
| 02:54.58 | sontek | decriptor: which is already fine tuned and finished |
| 02:55.49 | sontek | decriptor: we are still going to build an abstraction layer on top of telepathy so we don't rely on it |
| 02:56.05 | sontek | but the first few releases (or forever?) they'll be the main provider |
| 02:58.17 | decriptor | that makes asense |
| 02:58.23 | decriptor | s/asense/sense |
| 03:00.29 | decriptor | what all does telepathy support? |
| 03:02.56 | decriptor | sontek: is there some telekinesis stuff in linux (calvin mentioned it) or is that telepathy |
| 03:02.59 | decriptor | ? |
| 03:06.11 | sontek | decriptor: it supports aim/msn/jabber/irc/video/audio |
| 03:06.13 | decriptor | sontek: telepathy is dependent on dbus isn't it |
| 03:06.36 | sontek | word on the street is it also has SIP but I haven't seen much on it |
| 03:06.51 | sontek | decriptor: yes, all communication is done over dbus |
| 03:07.01 | decriptor | then its linux dependent |
| 03:07.03 | decriptor | isn't it |
| 03:07.12 | decriptor | or is there some form of dbus for windows |
| 03:07.22 | sontek | http://sourceforge.net/projects/windbus |
| 03:07.34 | sontek | They plan on merging windbus back into trunk once its ready |
| 03:07.51 | decriptor | oh cool |
| 03:07.58 | decriptor | , but how long is it out?: |
| 03:08.09 | sontek | It only has like 2 developers on it |
| 03:08.14 | sontek | so they are slow |
| 03:08.17 | sontek | but we can help :) |
| 03:08.34 | decriptor | I guess, if we have to :P |
| 03:08.44 | decriptor | I think we have our work cut out for us already |
| 03:08.46 | decriptor | :) |
| 03:09.12 | sontek | Portability can come later if we need to push a feature back |
| 03:09.22 | sontek | Windows already has really good conferencing tools |
| 03:09.32 | decriptor | I think its important that we get this working on windows as well |
| 03:09.34 | sontek | but I want to make sure we are compatible with them |
| 03:09.40 | sontek | so people can video chat over msn from linux |
| 03:10.07 | sontek | MSN on windows alreayd has video, Skype on windows already has video, etc. |
| 03:10.13 | sontek | I want to get this to run on all platforms |
| 03:10.23 | decriptor | man this has tons of gnome dependent thing in it |
| 03:10.26 | sontek | but running on mac and Linux first should be priority |
| 03:10.36 | sontek | decriptor: yeah, almost everything in it is dependent on gnome |
| 03:10.45 | sontek | use Gnome tools, Gconf, etc |
| 03:10.53 | sontek | thats why I said we might want to start from scratch |
| 03:11.00 | sontek | and use them as a base |
| 03:11.21 | decriptor | what about notify sharp? |
| 03:11.36 | decriptor | is just looking at the references right now |
| 03:15.06 | sontek | notify sharp is a fully managed implementation of libnotify |
| 03:15.39 | decriptor | right |
| 03:15.48 | decriptor | but what about mac and windows |
| 03:15.49 | decriptor | ? |
| 03:16.09 | sontek | Everything will work just fine on mac, thats not a question |
| 03:16.16 | sontek | they have dbus |
| 03:16.53 | sontek | oh, and I forgot to respond about telekinesis, its what giver uses for file sharing |
| 03:16.59 | sontek | its no longer supported afaik |
| 03:17.11 | decriptor | oh |
| 03:17.20 | decriptor | what replaced it |
| 03:17.51 | sontek | telepathy added file transfer to their spec |
| 03:18.16 | decriptor | so teletkinesis is dead for sure? |
| 03:18.20 | sontek | yeah |
| 03:18.34 | sontek | just looked at their log, haven't been updated in 5 months |
| 03:20.20 | decriptor | oh |
| 03:20.34 | decriptor | are they going to merge into something else |
| 03:20.55 | sontek | so basically, our dependencies are going to be GTK and Telepathy |
| 03:21.08 | sontek | Telepathy will bring in a dbus dependency |
| 03:23.41 | decriptor | I was looking at the account files, I wonder if there is some stuff that will copy right over |
| 03:24.35 | sontek | I don't think must will just copy, but all the code will be useful |
| 03:24.45 | sontek | They didn't have a very good architecture/separation |
| 03:24.54 | sontek | which is why its almost impossible to port it right now |
| 03:25.23 | sontek | If we build a good separation, we can rely on telepathy/dbus and then if it never runs on windows we can implement a windows compatibility layer using something that does work in windows |
| 03:25.52 | sontek | The only problem is Telepathy supports video/audio and finding another good library that supports both will probably be hard |
| 03:26.06 | decriptor | right |
| 03:26.55 | decriptor | I wonder if we can create a bridge between dbus and some windows stuff |
| 03:27.43 | decriptor | sontek: what is System.Object? |
| 03:27.54 | sontek | Its what every object in C# inherits from |
| 03:27.56 | sontek | its the base object |
| 03:30.52 | decriptor | static private System.Object locker; |
| 03:30.58 | decriptor | so why create something like this |
| 03:34.19 | sontek | to make it thread safe |
| 03:34.26 | decriptor | oh |
| 03:34.31 | sontek | you lock(locker) { } and only one thread can go at a time |
| 03:34.43 | sontek | that way you don't get into race conditions |
| 03:34.53 | sontek | if thats what they were doing |
| 03:35.07 | decriptor | how does using system.object accomplish that |
| 03:35.29 | decriptor | if (startThread == null) { lock (locker) { |
| 03:36.31 | sontek | The type doesn't matter, but most people use system.object since it doesn't matter |
| 03:36.44 | sontek | You could do System.String locker; if you wanted |
| 03:36.59 | sontek | they just need a single object to lock on so that only one thread executes at a time |
| 03:37.31 | decriptor | oh ok |
| 03:38.01 | decriptor | so wouldn't it be better to use System.Object since its the simplest |
| 03:38.02 | decriptor | ? |
| 03:38.09 | sontek | yeap |
| 03:38.26 | decriptor | I assume its a smaller object? |
| 03:38.49 | sontek | as small as they come |
| 03:39.01 | sontek | every object inherits from it |
| 03:39.35 | decriptor | look at that, I'm learning already :) |
| 03:40.07 | sontek | we are also going to rely on avahi |
| 03:40.21 | decriptor | what does avahi give us |
| 03:40.54 | sontek | network configuration |
| 03:41.06 | sontek | thats how giver detects users on the network |
| 03:41.19 | decriptor | oh ok |
| 03:41.20 | decriptor | ciik |
| 03:41.21 | decriptor | cool |
| 03:41.27 | sontek | but we'll use Mono.ZeroConf because it wraps around mDNSResponder, Avahi, and Bonjour |
| 03:41.32 | sontek | so its cross platform |
| 03:41.56 | decriptor | oh cool |
| 03:43.02 | sontek | This is going to be such a fun project |
| 03:43.03 | decriptor | so mDNSResponder is windows? |
| 03:43.29 | sontek | mDNSResponder is windows/mac |
| 03:43.34 | sontek | bonjour uses the same protocol |
| 03:43.34 | decriptor | Bonjour is mac |
| 03:44.10 | decriptor | does linux have mdnsresponder |
| 03:44.18 | decriptor | I thought I saw something abou tit |
| 03:44.29 | sontek | yeah |
| 03:44.34 | sontek | but avahi is more wide spread |
| 03:46.45 | sontek | and I think mdns isn't very well supported |
| 03:47.03 | decriptor | mdns? |
| 03:47.07 | decriptor | oh |
| 03:51.12 | sontek | so maybe after your OBS talk, we'll do banter hacking? |
| 03:51.17 | sontek | thats in 4 days |
| 03:53.16 | decriptor | yeah |
| 03:53.37 | sontek | I can show you guys the basics of glade/gtk and get everyone started on hacking |
| 03:53.37 | decriptor | I don't know that I'll be very ready to present on it, but could help people get their feet wet |
| 03:53.45 | decriptor | cool |
| 03:54.03 | decriptor | it would be good to get the core cleaned up though wouldn't it |
| 03:54.12 | decriptor | and then make the gui play nice |
| 03:54.13 | decriptor | ? |
| 03:54.23 | decriptor | we could get my wife to help with the graphics |
| 03:56.20 | sontek | Yeah, I was going to email jimmac and see if he had any usability ideas |
| 03:56.25 | sontek | I'm not a usubility expert |
| 03:56.28 | sontek | usability |
| 03:56.46 | decriptor | jimmac? |
| 03:57.01 | decriptor | we should talk to jake spurlock as well |
| 03:57.11 | decriptor | he took an interface design class |
| 03:57.18 | sontek | decriptor: Jakub Steiner, the guy who does all the OpenSUSE graphics |
| 03:58.00 | decriptor | oh cool |
| 03:59.23 | sontek | but yeah, she should create us a badass logo |
| 03:59.26 | sontek | banter doesn't have a logo |
| 03:59.55 | decriptor | oh |
| 05:09.18 | decriptor | sontek: ping |
| 05:14.48 | sontek | decriptor: pong |
| 05:15.06 | decriptor | need your help in #mono-a11y |
| 05:37.56 | sontek | decriptor: did I help? :P |
| 05:38.02 | decriptor | I thinks o |
| 05:38.04 | decriptor | so |
| 05:38.09 | sontek | kangaroo is a very intelligent guy, hes done some badass work on mono's mac port |
| 05:38.11 | decriptor | I just wasn't entirely sure |
| 05:38.21 | decriptor | that's what I've heard |
| 05:39.35 | decriptor | but I figured its a good conversation to have |
| 05:40.13 | decriptor | I think the apps are cool and I'm happy to just contribute to a project |
| 05:43.25 | sontek | I think it'll definitely help out the linux community |
| 05:43.35 | sontek | we really lack in a real good collaboration app |
| 05:43.44 | sontek | skype is the best we have and its QT based and not open source |
| 05:46.38 | decriptor | yeah and its just barely coming along |
| 06:16.10 | decriptor | sontek: so clint is really really pissing emily off |
| 06:30.10 | sontek | whats he doing? |
| 06:30.22 | sontek | did she kick him in ze balls yet? |
| 06:32.15 | decriptor | she should |
| 06:32.44 | decriptor | he keeps blaming her for not receiving an email or that she didn't upload a file or blaming her for something |
| 06:33.01 | decriptor | and then he took what see had spent a ton of time on and redid it in another program |
| 15:07.12 | sontek | tell her to stop helping =) |
| 15:07.26 | sontek | if hes not going to appreciate the hardwork shes doing |
| 23:31.17 | decriptor | sontek: ping |
| 23:47.12 | decriptor | sontek: ping |
