irclog2html for #openzaurus on 20030120

`00:01.10`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`battery drops so fast...`
`00:01.36`	`RealUlli`	`Onyx4\|Z: wifi card?`
`00:02.06`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`is it possible that the battery meter is 2 4 6 is indicating lower than it really is?`
`00:02.15`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`netgear yeah`
`00:02.23`	`RealUlli`	`Onyx4\|Z: ok..`
`00:02.30`	`kenb`	`not linksys ;)`
`00:02.46`	`RealUlli`	`kenb: ok...`
`00:02.47`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`even without wifi it still drop fast`
`00:02.54`	`kenb`	`linksys sucks alot of power`
`00:03.28`	`mickeyl`	`RealUlli: socket/spectrum`
`00:03.45`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`any games u guys need that arent in the unstable feed?`
`00:04.09`	`kenb`	`doom? ;)`
`00:04.29`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`prboom is in the feed`
`00:04.39`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`that is doom`
`00:04.48`	`RealUlli`	`Onyx4\|Z: nethack? :-)`
`00:04.58`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`boring..`
`00:05.01`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`heh`
`00:05.15`	`ljp`	`this poor vercel sits gathering dust... ;(`
`00:06.22`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`ljp it would be cool if opie would have an option for fullscreen as well as rotation`
`00:06.22`	`RealUlli`	`(the advantage of nethack is, it doesn't use much power, has a lot of depth and can be interrupted... )`
`00:06.43`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`would be nice for konq to get rid of taskbar and title`
`00:07.07`	`kenb`	`yea.`
`00:07.09`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`selectable on click-hold`
`00:07.14`	`scanline`	`how about rotation without restarting the app? :)`
`00:07.39`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`its probably not hard to do right`
`00:08.22`	`kenb`	`well, rotation for mediaplayer for sure`
`00:10.14`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`op2 has rotation now`
`00:10.34`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`its in the unstable feed i added it today`
`00:11.10`	`kenb`	`cool`
`00:11.19`	`kenb`	`last time I tried unstable feed, it wanted to upgrade everything..`
`00:11.30`	`kenb`	`but opie was running already... so it crashed hard.`
`00:12.05`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`yeah exit opie and run ipkg update and ipkg upgrade`
`00:12.15`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`thats the best way`
`00:12.53`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`then reboot`
`00:12.55`	`kenb`	`onyx: what's the current major diff from stable -> unstable ?`
`00:14.11`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`stable is 3.0 .. testing 3.1rc1... unstable is like rc2 in progress`
`00:14.23`	`kenb`	`okay.. I'm on 3.1rc1 right now`
`00:14.26`	`*** join/#openzaurus savek (~savek@217-126-117-105.uc.nombres.ttd.es)`
`00:14.29`	`kenb`	`any major incentive to goto unstable ?`
`00:14.54`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`newer versions of software bug fixes`
`00:15.06`	`kenb`	`anything known broken ?`
`00:15.26`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`you can grab invidual sw from unstable feed without upgr eveything`
`00:15.38`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`not afaik no`
`00:16.08`	`RealUlli`	`Onyx4\|Z: how? mark it as active in aqpkg, select, then upgrade?`
`00:16.42`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`no click on invidual package then click apply`
`00:16.46`	`kenb`	`ony: do I have to mark stable as unusaed?`
`00:17.13`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`just go into feed settings`
`00:17.31`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`aqpkg is also newer in unstable feed`
`00:17.44`	`kenb`	`k`
`00:17.51`	`kenb`	`I did ipkg update... time for an upgrade ;)`
`00:17.53`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`u probably want to upgrade ipkg then opie-aqpkg first`
`00:18.32`	`kenb`	`ony: do I need to specify -d ram ?`
`00:19.01`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`not anymore with new ipkg`
`00:19.05`	`kenb`	`k`
`00:19.08`	`kenb`	`I'll get new ipkg first`
`00:19.17`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`but upgrade ipkg first`
`00:19.21`	`kenb`	`just did that.`
`00:19.24`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`ipkg upgrade ipkg`
`00:19.28`	`kenb`	`ipkg --version`
`00:19.29`	`kenb`	`ipkg version 0.99.43`
`00:19.32`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`k`
`00:19.36`	`kenb`	`that's the correct version, right ?`
`00:19.46`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`dunno`
`00:19.51`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`we use cvs`
`00:19.54`	`kenb`	`ah, k`
`00:20.01`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`so version may not change`
`00:20.06`	`kenb`	`yea..`
`00:20.13`	`kenb`	`so just "ipkg upgrade" ?`
`00:20.34`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`out of opie yes`
`00:20.41`	`kenb`	`yea, opie is terminated`
`00:20.51`	`kenb`	`off it goes...`
`00:21.02`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`does your /etc/ipkg.conf points to unstable feed?`
`00:21.23`	`kenb`	`yea`
`00:21.31`	`kenb`	`Downloading http://openzaurus.org/official/unstable/feed/kismet_2.8.0b-1_arm.ipk`
`00:21.34`	`kenb`	`looks like it's working`
`00:21.53`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`k`
`00:22.03`	`kenb`	`Hm.. New ipkg is smart`
`00:22.09`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`let me know if any problems`
`00:22.14`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`yep`
`00:22.17`	`kenb`	`it looks where something is currently installed (root vs ram vs cf) and replaces it`
`00:22.25`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`thans to tmm`
`00:22.33`	`kenb`	`very nice`
`00:23.25`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`any news on the sd driver?`
`00:23.29`	`kenb`	`none`
`00:23.37`	`kenb`	`kergoth says he'll dig more on monday...`
`00:23.41`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`k`
`00:23.45`	`kenb`	`and still nothing from sharp`
`00:24.00`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`arg`
`00:24.11`	`kenb`	`:(`
`00:25.06`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`ima go play some games on my Z ...`
`00:25.09`	`Onyx4\|Z`	`later`
`00:25.13`	`kenb`	`thanks`
`00:25.26`	`RealUlli`	`hmm... just curious... i understand, there is some problem with the sd driver - sharp doesn't release the source.`
`00:26.02`	`RealUlli`	`i've been thinking to get a largish (128 MB or so) SD card.. will there be any problems?`
`00:26.07`	`kenb`	`you need to pay for liencese for SD`
`00:26.12`	`kenb`	`it won't work.`
`00:26.24`	`RealUlli`	`ok... shit. :-(`
`00:26.40`	`kenb`	`To get the SD specs/code, it's not free... and you can't give them away once you have the`
`00:26.58`	`*** join/#openzaurus raster (~raster@203.206.217.82)`
`00:27.32`	`RealUlli`	`i can see the problem... either cf or wifi.. so no uploading stuff without cradle.. :-(`
`00:28.20`	`kenb`	`Yea. Unless they can get the mmc driver from the ipaq over`
`00:28.29`	`caffeine`	`just did an ipkg upgrade to the new unstable...anybody aqpkg to work after upgrade?`
`00:28.35`	`kenb`	`or wait 3 months for the new SanDisk 802.11 + 256MB CF card.`
`00:28.40`	`TheMasterMind1`	`caffeine: install opie-aqpkg`
`00:28.44`	`kenb`	`caffeine: I'll let you know in a few minutes.`
`00:28.55`	`kenb`	`but yea.. ipkg remove aqpkg`
`00:29.02`	`kenb`	`and then ipkg install opie-aqpkg`
`00:29.04`	`caffeine`	`i did opie-aqpkg`
`00:29.25`	`caffeine`	`got ya...i'll try that`
`00:32.45`	`RealUlli`	`ok..`
`00:32.57`	`caffeine`	`that did it guys....thanks`
`00:33.06`	`RealUlli`	`0132h here...`
`00:33.13`	`RealUlli`	`yawn`
`00:34.12`	`mickeyl`	`n8`
`00:35.05`	`kenb`	`I'm guessing opie-base takes forever to install..`
`00:38.32`	`RealUlli`	`hmm... weird... the OZ FAQ says it's possible to install apps to a SD card... how, if it doesn't work?! (is this a problem with a new kernel?!)`
`00:38.51`	`TheMasterMind1`	`RealUlli: it works in current oz, not in the new kerenel`
`00:40.08`	`RealUlli`	`tmm: ah, i c ... is the new kernel already in testing?`
`00:40.28`	`RealUlli`	`...could we use the sharp binary module?`
`00:40.37`	`TheMasterMind1`	`its still in development`
`00:40.40`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hasn't been released`
`00:40.53`	`RealUlli`	`ok...`
`00:41.05`	`kenb`	`hm. upgrading opie-base takes forever....`
`00:42.53`	`troffasky`	`TheMasterMind1: what is Sharp's given reason for not realeasing a binary SD module for 2.4.19?`
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`00:43.04`	`TheMasterMind1`	`troffasky: none :)`
`00:43.09`	`TheMasterMind1`	`they haven't said anything`
`00:43.21`	`kenb`	`they'll have one for the 5600 kernel`
`00:43.45`	`troffasky`	`has anybody asked them?`
`00:43.49`	`kenb`	`yes`
`00:43.56`	`TheMasterMind1`	`troffasky: yes, emails have been sent`
`00:44.24`	`troffasky`	`Was it an auto-response kind of thing?`
`00:44.46`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i don't think we've gotten any replies at all`
`00:45.00`	`TheMasterMind1`	`we got one reply about the b600 sources`
`00:45.06`	`TheMasterMind1`	`saying they'd be released on th 14th`
`00:45.08`	`TheMasterMind1`	`they weren't.`
`00:45.26`	`troffasky`	`Right. Which calendar do they use in Japan? ;)`
`00:45.45`	`TheMasterMind1`	`heh`
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`00:56.31`	`moment0`	`hi all`
`00:56.48`	`RealUlli`	`re, and bye...`
`00:58.12`	`moment0`	`do SD card suck anus? I just tried to install an app to a new one that had been peviously tested as good and no is not recognized by cardmgr. anyone have this happen before?`
`00:58.50`	`RealUlli`	`momento: which kernel?`
`00:59.12`	`moment0`	`the one that comes with OZ 3.0`
`00:59.34`	`RealUlli`	`hmm.. no idea.. i just heard there were problems with 2.4.19...`
`00:59.48`	`kenb`	`SD should work with OZ 3.0`
`00:59.56`	`RealUlli`	`moment0: and the 3.0 one is a 2.4.6...`
`01:00.14`	`RealUlli`	`well.. n8`
`01:00.25`	`moment0`	`yeah it was working for about a week until I tried to install an app on it last night`
`01:00.47`	`moment0`	`oh later, I guess....`
`01:03.49`	`kenb`	`Anyone tried to upgrade to unstable lately ?`
`01:08.52`	`kenb`	`can you add swap as a file on the Z ?`
`01:11.49`	`kenb`	`the 32/32 image won't let me upgrade... not enuff ram to uncompress opie-base`
`01:15.17`	`kenb`	`Onyx4: You can't upgrade to unstable on a 32/32 ROM`
`01:38.15`	`\|\|ugh`	`Is OZ-3.1-rc2 happneing this week as suggested? Are we just going to forget the stupid SD card for now and go with 2.4.19 sans SD driver? Obviously a web site news update is in order... :r)`
`01:38.33`	`kenb`	`well`
`01:38.39`	`kenb`	`since opie-sounds is broken in unstable...`
`01:38.44`	`kenb`	`that'll need to be fixed :)`
`01:38.57`	`kenb`	`\|\|ugh: at least in unstable they've got the new busybox with expr for us`
`01:39.11`	`\|\|ugh`	`So you got the current unstable installed?`
`01:39.30`	`kenb`	`trying.`
`01:39.35`	`kenb`	`failing miserably so far.`
`01:39.54`	`kenb`	`you can't upgrade on a 32/32 rom to start with`
`01:39.59`	`kenb`	`so I did a fresh 40/24`
`01:40.13`	`kenb`	`now it hangs out on opie sounds...`
`01:40.16`	`kenb`	`so I killed that.`
`01:40.24`	`kenb`	`now it's hung on opie-style`
`01:40.53`	`kenb`	`seems to get stuck in an invisable gzip process`
`01:42.13`	`\|\|ugh`	`I am running 56ram/6ramdisk and a 246mb SD and a 8-2.11b CF. If the 2.4.19 based OZ is coolenough I should just dump the DRM SD shit and get a combo FLASH-RAM/802.11b CF and the SD folks can go fuck them selves rather then me.`
`01:42.45`	`kenb`	`that would be ideal...`
`01:42.54`	`\|\|ugh`	`But likely expensive...`
`01:42.57`	`kenb`	`fscking stupid styles.`
`01:43.00`	`kenb`	`yes`
`01:43.10`	`\|\|ugh`	`Also the combo cards don't show until march.`
`01:43.17`	`kenb`	`:(`
`01:43.22`	`kenb`	`well, I give up for tonight.`
`01:43.33`	`kenb`	`opie-sounds is fscked, as is opie-style-flat`
`01:43.51`	`\|\|ugh`	`Report it so it can be fixed, then crash.`
`01:44.13`	`kenb`	`yes, but where? bugs on the SF project go unanswered/unclosed for months.`
`01:44.19`	`kenb`	`ibot: oz unstable`
`01:44.20`		`it has been said that oz unstable is at http://openzaurus.org/feeds/unstable/`
`01:44.42`	`kenb`	`nice. that page gives a 404`
`01:45.53`	`\|\|ugh`	`Sucks.`
`01:46.42`	`kenb`	`any idea where the cached feeds are kept?`
`01:47.26`	`kenb`	`rm /opt/QtPalmtop/plugins/today`
`01:47.26`	`kenb`	rm: unable to stat `/opt/QtPalmtop/plugins/today': Input/output error
`01:47.32`	`kenb`	`that's not good either.`
`01:50.49`	`kenb`	`and now my opie won't start - segfault. grr.`
`01:51.28`	`kenb`	`ah. a reboot.. and ipkg upgrade is working again`
`01:52.54`	`TheMasterMind1`	`kenb: yea, its a thing with the old kernel`
`01:52.58`	`TheMasterMind1`	`the jff2 in there is shitty`
`01:53.24`	`kenb`	`no kidding.`
`01:53.25`	`kenb`	`okay`
`01:53.29`	`kenb`	`so I managed to ge tit to complete.`
`01:54.40`	`kenb`	`so only oz-base fails.. since /dev/* exist and can't be removed.`
`01:54.58`	`kenb`	`TheMasterMind1: which kernel are you on?`
`01:58.13`	`TheMasterMind1`	`.19`
`02:00.12`	`kenb`	`not part of unstable tho, is it ?`
`02:00.59`	`TheMasterMind1`	`no`
`02:11.16`	`kenb`	`hm`
`02:11.23`	`kenb`	`nearly got 1000 points in SFCave.`
`02:11.28`	`kenb`	`I suck :)`
`02:13.42`	`*** join/#openzaurus kenb[z] (~kenb[z]@d141-225-140.home.cgocable.net)`
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`02:34.03`	`chouimat`	`kenb: only 1531 in SFCave I suck too`
`02:34.36`	`kenb[z]`	`heh`
`02:34.46`	`kenb[z]`	`glad i'm not alone`
`02:35.39`	`kenb[z]`	`whats the quickest way to get a '?' using only the keyboard?`
`02:38.53`	`hardwire`	`drop it`
`02:39.06`	`hardwire`	`on the keyboard`
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`02:58.47`	`ljp_`	`hmm`
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`03:08.59`	`JasonNJ`	`I think I found the killer app for OZ.`
`03:09.27`	`JasonNJ`	`I found something that EVERYONE will want on a PDA!`
`03:09.36`	`kenb`	`?`
`03:09.40`	`JasonNJ`	`http://www.dolemite.com/content.php?body=ebonics`
`03:09.53`	`JasonNJ`	`a ebonics translator`
`03:09.58`	`scanline`	`whee, VNC demo works`
`03:11.12`	`JasonNJ`	`see, here is a sample entry`
`03:11.14`	`JasonNJ`	`assing up`
`03:11.14`	`JasonNJ`	`Definition: getting intoxicated`
`03:11.14`	`JasonNJ`	`Synonyms: GETTING HIGH`
`03:11.14`	`JasonNJ`	`Example: Yo, man, we was assin' up last night on the best coke I ever had!`
`03:11.14`	`JasonNJ`	`Submitted by: ultracinco@yahoo.com`
`03:11.45`	`chouimat`	`JasonNJ: I have Ebonic Language lessons here`
`03:12.02`	`JasonNJ`	`back dat ass up`
`03:12.02`	`JasonNJ`	`Definition: request for, or act of doggy style sex.`
`03:12.02`	`JasonNJ`	`Synonyms: REAR ENTRY`
`03:12.02`	`JasonNJ`	`Example: Saw dis fine azz freak at da swap meet yetaday, told her "yo bee-atch back dat ass up!"`
`03:12.02`	`JasonNJ`	`Submitted by: ddave42@earthlink.net`
`03:12.44`	`JasonNJ`	`I think we should do a full i18 implementation of ebonics for OZ`
`03:12.50`	`chouimat`	`Definition: 1. a "bar-girl" who solicits drinks from male customers.2.a semi-professional prostitute who works in bars. 3. a nickname for a sexually promiscuous woman.`
`03:12.50`	`JasonNJ`	`we could be the FIRST ebonics OS.`
`03:13.21`	`JasonNJ`	`and, we could include a full Qt port of Drugmoney.`
`03:13.55`	`JasonNJ`	`I think we could make some serious headway into the inner city PDA crowd.`
`03:16.31`	`JasonNJ`	`jive suckah`
`03:16.31`	`JasonNJ`	`Definition: a person that says, acts or thinks they know shit, but don't. A homo believes anything.`
`03:16.31`	`JasonNJ`	`Synonyms: JIVE MOTHERFUCKER`
`03:16.31`	`JasonNJ`	`Example: That motherfucker thought he was gonna win N's playing the three card monte. What a jive suckah.`
`03:16.31`	`JasonNJ`	`Submitted by: dolemite17@hotmail.com`
`03:18.26`	`JasonNJ`	`hmm. I see my suggestions are meeting with deaf ears this evening :)`
`03:18.48`	`JasonNJ`	`cmon, we could get the Crips and the Bloods to adopt OZ. :)`
`03:21.00`	`*** join/#openzaurus chouimat (~dieu@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca)`
`03:21.33`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`night`
`03:22.40`	`bipolar`	`JasonNJ: Is there a reason that sharp has not responded to the OZ SD issue? I'm assuming thats not your department. :)`
`03:23.15`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`JasonNJ: who we should pester at sharp to have an answer?`
`03:23.17`	`JasonNJ`	`bi: they have responded. I forwarded it to kergoth. The answer sadly is no, they cant provide us the source so we can compile a new one.`
`03:23.24`	`kergoth`	`ibot: no, oz unstable is <reply> see oz feed`
`03:23.25`		`kergoth: okay`
`03:23.34`	`kergoth`	`re`
`03:23.38`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`hi kenb`
`03:23.40`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`hi kergoth`
`03:23.48`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`~lart tab completion`
`03:23.57`	`bipolar`	`JasonNJ: I guessed that... but what about building it for us and giving us a binary?`
`03:24.01`	`JasonNJ`	`the problem is the SD Org's NDA would put us in jail.`
`03:24.16`	`JasonNJ`	`bi: cant do tht either, they dont have the manpower to spare to work on this for us.`
`03:25.00`	`bipolar`	`JasonNJ: heh..... I guess someone will have to reverse engineer it.`
`03:25.16`	`kergoth`	`bipolar: our best hope is getting the existing driver to work in 2.4.19.`
`03:25.20`	`JasonNJ`	`anything at this current time that is unrelated to working on the 5600 and C700 is not priority`
`03:25.25`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`why I sense all people looking at me`
`03:26.00`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`JasonNJ: just try to find some doc on the locomo and we will write at least a MMC driver`
`03:26.03`	`kergoth`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: had too much to drink?`
`03:26.03`	`JasonNJ`	`the problem going forward isnt so much reverse engineering the driver its that the lack of documentation on Locomo makes it next to impossible.`
`03:26.12`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kergoth: just bored`
`03:26.19`	`JasonNJ`	`we HAVE NO DOCUMENTATION ON LOCOMO`
`03:26.28`	`kergoth`	`JasonNJ: reverse engineering the driver would be sufficient to make it function in 2.4.19`
`03:26.28`	`JasonNJ`	`it dont exist`
`03:27.03`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`JasonNJ: ok. we will just hunt down the japanese engineer then`
`03:27.09`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`03:27.11`	`JasonNJ`	`lol good luck`
`03:27.30`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`... and shoot them :)`
`03:27.31`	`JasonNJ`	`I think going forward the best thing we can do is work on kergoth's wrapper driver for the 5500`
`03:27.56`	`JasonNJ`	`forunately all the new Z's going forward utilize the native SD commands of the xscale chipset`
`03:27.58`	`kenb`	`heh`
`03:28.06`	`JasonNJ`	`they wont be using proprietary SD controllers from now on`
`03:28.25`	`bipolar`	`yeah... really, a generic SD driver would be great. ala Nvidia.`
`03:28.44`	`kenb`	`JasonNJ: Z's after thet 5600, you meant?`
`03:28.55`	`kenb`	`JasonNJ: or does that include the 5600 ?`
`03:28.56`	`JasonNJ`	`the 5600 uses the xscale controller`
`03:29.00`	`kergoth`	`kenb: that includes the 5600`
`03:29.05`	`kenb`	`k`
`03:29.18`	`kergoth`	`bipolar: indeed. that would be nice. sane API to register the hardware access functions with a core SD layer`
`03:29.24`	`kenb`	`I suppose a /. front page won't help change sharps mind...`
`03:29.40`	`JasonNJ`	`kenb: well, maybe.`
`03:29.42`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kergoth: any news on the wrapper`
`03:29.48`	`JasonNJ`	`can you get it up on the front page?`
`03:29.53`	`kenb`	`Doubtful.`
`03:30.07`	`kenb`	`Even my super-low /. uid won't help me there :(`
`03:30.12`	`kergoth`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: no news, havent touched it since friday. I know exactly what needs doing, its just a matter of spending the time to get it done.`
`03:30.18`	`bipolar`	`kenb: whats your uid?`
`03:30.20`	`kenb`	`11`
`03:30.27`	`bipolar`	`holy shit`
`03:30.41`	`bipolar`	`im 107195..... :)`
`03:30.42`	`kenb`	`:)`
`03:30.52`	`JasonNJ`	`well, I suppose I could talk to hemos and taco next week about it.`
`03:30.57`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kergoth: ok I'm off need to get some sleep, spend too much time on that firewall`
`03:31.10`	`kergoth`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: ok, night. sleep well`
`03:31.25`	`kenb`	`JasonNJ: the issue is we need proof. ie: emails from sharp saying NO`
`03:31.29`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kergoth: will finish House Harkonnen before :)`
`03:31.37`	`kergoth`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: nice`
`03:31.43`	`JasonNJ`	`kenb: we have them, but it would also cause me to get fired.`
`03:32.08`	`JasonNJ`	`:)`
`03:32.10`	`kergoth`	`JasonNJ: they CC'd me on the original reply.. i Have it in a form you didnt forward`
`03:32.16`	`kergoth`	`JasonNJ: still get you fired?`
`03:32.18`	`*** join/#openzaurus caffeine (~khedspet@clt74-77-210.carolina.rr.com)`
`03:32.19`	`JasonNJ`	`ok good.`
`03:32.19`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`btw a Hero of Might and Magic clone on the Z an ipaq would people buy it?`
`03:32.24`	`JasonNJ`	`no tht wont get me fired.`
`03:32.41`	`kergoth`	`brb`
`03:32.52`	`JasonNJ`	`kergoth: cause at this point its gonna be moot within several weeks, I guess.`
`03:33.10`	`*** join/#openzaurus Bala (~ryanr@hsdbsk142-165-143-51.sasknet.sk.ca)`
`03:33.14`	`JasonNJ`	`my contract is expiring in Feb, no idea if they are gonna keep me on or not.`
`03:33.48`	`bipolar`	`ok guys... gotta go. the wife is beckoning. Good night!`
`03:33.53`	`JasonNJ`	`my role has been pretty diminished since we went ffrom consumer to enterprise`
`03:33.58`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`JasonNJ: do you know if someone is actually using the encryption features of the sd card?`
`03:34.06`	`JasonNJ`	`no encryption.`
`03:34.48`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`JasonNJ: not on the Z. on the other hardware platform`
`03:34.56`	`kergoth`	`JasonNJ: given that the existing binary module doesnt support the encryption functions, then driver disassembly wouldnt be considered circumvention.. in theory one could do it without fear of the DMCA. obviously it'd still be preferred to get someone in another country to do it :)`
`03:35.09`	`JasonNJ`	`yep.`
`03:35.14`	`JasonNJ`	`canada?`
`03:35.17`	`JasonNJ`	`or norway`
`03:35.39`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`would need the none existing doc on the locomo to do it the right way :)`
`03:35.53`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`03:36.05`	`kenb`	`someone wanna walk me thru it in a public channel..`
`03:36.06`	`kergoth`	`and even that would give us only MMC, not SD`
`03:36.10`	`kenb`	`I'm in canada`
`03:36.23`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kenb: me too`
`03:36.38`	`kenb`	`as long as it's held in public forum... they can't stop it.`
`03:36.46`	`kenb`	`(love the USA freedom of speech thing)`
`03:37.40`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kenb: welcome to #openzaurus SD driver reverse festival`
`03:37.54`	`kenb`	`heh`
`03:41.15`	`kergoth`	`http://www.w-m-p.com/ipaq/download/`
`03:41.23`	`kergoth`	`download disarm`
`03:41.28`	`kergoth`	`kenb: ^^`
`03:41.30`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`03:42.02`	`kenb`	`what does disarm do?`
`03:42.16`	`kergoth`	`"it`
`03:42.16`	`kergoth`	`generates a modifiable .S file out of a .o file, with some annotations.`
`03:42.17`	`kergoth`	`If you assemble the resulting file, you'll get a working module back."`
`03:42.38`	`kenb`	`really...`
`03:42.46`	`kenb`	`so I can disassemble sdmmc.o ?`
`03:42.49`	`kergoth`	`http://www.zaurus.com/dev/board/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=686&st=0`
`03:42.51`	`kergoth`	`yep`
`03:44.04`	`kergoth`	`it uses arm-linux-objdump -dr and arm-linux-nm to do it. quite cool really`
`03:44.15`	`*** join/#openzaurus BiGBiGYLLaMa (~llama@pD9EB3C05.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`03:44.16`	`kenb`	`nice..`
`03:44.45`	`kenb`	`that gonna make your life simpler?`
`03:45.03`	`kergoth`	`the mmcd_request function will need rewriting, it accesses structures who have changed.. all its offsets will be wrong`
`03:46.08`	`kergoth`	`brb`
`03:46.17`	`ljp_`	`thats inconcievable!`
`03:46.30`	`kenb`	`ljp_: ?`
`03:47.30`	`ljp_`	`what kergoth said`
`03:47.39`	`kenb`	`hm.. dump completed.`
`03:48.20`	`kenb`	`well, we know who wrote it.`
`03:48.22`	`kenb`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:48.22`	`kenb`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:48.22`	`kenb`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:48.22`	`kenb`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:48.22`	`kenb`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:48.24`	`kenb`	`;)`
`03:48.25`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kergoth: and mmcd_request is long`
`03:49.03`	`ljp_`	`someone that sits next to mitchy`
`03:49.17`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`collie_sd_write_protected:`
`03:49.17`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:49.17`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:49.17`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:49.17`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:49.18`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:49.20`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:49.22`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:49.24`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:49.26`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:49.28`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:49.30`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`.L00005944:`
`03:49.32`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:49.49`	`ljp_`	`oh joy looks like fun`
`03:50.28`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`03:50.37`	`kergoth`	`arm assembler is great`
`03:51.03`	`ljp_`	`nop nop`
`03:51.05`	`kenb`	`hehaheh`
`03:51.19`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kenb: do you have the ARM ARM?`
`03:51.21`	`kenb`	`yes, lets optimize thier driver. </sarcasm>`
`03:51.26`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`03:51.30`	`kenb`	`ARM ARM?`
`03:51.33`	`kergoth`	`the ARM ARM is great`
`03:51.44`	`kergoth`	`kenb: arm architecture reference manual. ARM ARM`
`03:51.54`	`kenb`	`I do not have said manual`
`03:52.19`	`JasonNJ`	`push and pop`
`03:52.26`	`JasonNJ`	`sounds almost pornographic dont it`
`03:52.33`	`JasonNJ`	`I love assembler, its raunchy`
`03:52.42`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`03:52.45`	`kenb`	`hm`
`03:52.46`	`kenb`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:52.47`	`kergoth`	`arm assembler reads like poetry`
`03:52.48`	`kergoth`	`its nice`
`03:52.52`	`kenb`	`the last note on that board...`
`03:53.00`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`sex ...`
`03:53.01`	`kergoth`	`kenb: hehe, the binary wont do any good, it'll panic instantly :)`
`03:53.05`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kenb: huh?`
`03:53.10`	`kenb`	`kergoth: no...`
`03:53.16`	`kenb`	`kergoth: disarm it... rebuild it...`
`03:53.22`	`kergoth`	`kenb: it'll panic instantly.`
`03:53.25`	`kenb`	`or disarm, diff with 2.4.6`
`03:53.42`	`kenb`	`ah crap`
`03:53.42`	`kergoth`	`kenb: you'd need to have it in C to have the rebuild adjust to the changed structures`
`03:53.44`	`JasonNJ`	`oh man are we dumping that sucker to the channel now?`
`03:53.53`	`kergoth`	`kenb: it'll still panic, just wont require a force load`
`03:53.56`	`kenb`	`forgot... xscale vs arm`
`03:54.25`	`kergoth`	`yeah, different controllers`
`03:54.40`	`kergoth`	`backporting the new driver to locomo would not be my idea of fun :)`
`03:54.51`	`kergoth`	`easier to just rewrite the affected functions in this driver`
`03:55.18`	`kergoth`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: whats at 0xf0000098? hm`
`03:55.34`	`JasonNJ`	`oh man this is pretty fucked up right here.`
`03:55.36`	`kergoth`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: er what is 0xf0000098, i mean`
`03:55.39`	`kergoth`	`JasonNJ: ?`
`03:55.47`	`JasonNJ`	`just quoting south park...`
`03:55.48`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kergoth: look at the dump :)`
`03:55.57`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`03:56.00`	`kergoth`	`JasonNJ: ah`
`03:56.18`	`JasonNJ`	`damn just dont post this shit to zaurus-general tonight....`
`03:56.56`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`JasonNJ: hehe`
`03:56.57`	`JasonNJ`	`you know I probably shouldnt even be watching you guys do this`
`03:57.10`	`kergoth`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: any functions that touch blk_dev[] need alteration`
`03:57.36`	`kergoth`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: as to any functions that call end_that_request_first, end_that_request_last, blk_init_queue, and blk_clear_queue`
`03:57.39`	`kergoth`	`s/to/do/`
`03:57.41`	`kenb`	`mmcd_request is one..`
`03:57.43`	`kergoth`	`yep`
`03:57.49`	`kergoth`	`lol`
`03:58.06`	`kenb`	`twice`
`03:58.06`	`JasonNJ`	`ok, time for me to go have sex with my wife. Nite guys.`
`03:58.17`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`night JasonNJ`
`03:58.22`	`kergoth`	`night jason`
`03:58.28`	`JasonNJ`	`have fun storming the castle`
`03:58.41`	`kenb`	`mmcsd_init: has a call to init_blkdev as well`
`03:58.43`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`JasonNJ: us or you?`
`03:58.49`	`kergoth`	`think it'll work?, itd take a miracle`
`03:58.56`	`kenb`	`and blk_init_queue`
`03:58.57`	`ljp_`	`anyone here ever use network clipboard?`
`03:59.18`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`ljp_: yup sucked`
`03:59.20`	`kergoth`	`kenb: do any other functions touch any of those things? or is it just mmcd_request we need to fix?`
`03:59.32`	`kenb`	`mmcsd_exit`
`03:59.33`	`*** join/#openzaurus mscdex (fiftysix-k@1Cust234.tnt2.dayton-metro.oh.da.uu.net)`
`03:59.39`	`kenb`	`calls to unregister the block device`
`03:59.51`	`mscdex`	`anyone know if openzaurus will work on an ipaq?`
`04:00.00`	`kergoth`	`mscdex: with slight changes, yep.`
`04:00.02`	`kergoth`	`mscdex: its on the TODO`
`04:00.05`	`kenb`	`kergoth: that's pretty much it.`
`04:00.06`	`ljp_`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: did it even work?`
`04:00.23`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`ljp_: not when I tried`
`04:00.31`	`mscdex`	`is there any info about the project on the web?`
`04:00.43`	`kenb`	`kergoth: so init, requuest and exit`
`04:00.46`	`kergoth`	`mscdex: what project? getting OZ on the ipaq?`
`04:00.50`	`mscdex`	`yeah`
`04:01.05`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`mscdex: send us an ipaq (permanently) and we will do it for you :)`
`04:01.12`	`kergoth`	`mscdex: nope. just a matter of adding the handhelds.org kernels to the buildroot`
`04:01.22`	`ljp_`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: its a nice idea.. I'm going to try it`
`04:01.32`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`ljp_: huh?`
`04:01.56`	`mscdex`	`ok, one more question since you brought up handhelds.org.... does OZ use familiar as the base... or?`
`04:02.01`	`kergoth`	`nope`
`04:02.06`	`kergoth`	`both OZ and familiar are debian based.`
`04:02.28`	`kergoth`	`I was going to just port familiar to the Z, but it turned out they had no buildsystem`
`04:02.33`	`kergoth`	`and that all their packages were built manually`
`04:02.37`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kenb: do you need the arm manual?`
`04:02.40`	`mscdex`	`i'm wondering because i might consider installing OZ on my ipaq if its stable enough, and the fact that familiar had horrible stowaway support, i might install OZ if stowaway support is good enough`
`04:02.47`	`kergoth`	`I said screw that, and did a buildsystem for OZ and started on it.`
`04:02.52`	`kenb`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: is it good shitter reading material ?`
`04:03.01`	`kergoth`	`mscdex: its definately on my todo, I've had numerous requests.`
`04:03.07`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kenb: 811 page on the arm`
`04:03.14`	`kenb`	`pdf ?`
`04:03.23`	`ljp_`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: network clipboard is a good idea`
`04:03.25`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kenb: pdf but you can have it too`
`04:03.39`	`kenb`	`what you have dead-tree versions ?`
`04:03.42`	`mscdex`	`kergoth: any chance you could add stowaway keyboard support when you get the ipaq port up and working ?`
`04:03.43`	`mscdex`	`:)`
`04:03.48`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kenb: www.arm.com and order the demo sdk`
`04:03.53`	`mscdex`	`thats the only thing keeping me from installing linux again`
`04:04.06`	`kergoth`	`mscdex: yep, absolutely.`
`04:04.36`	`mscdex`	`ok, where on the OZ website can i find updates on the port, when they become available?`
`04:04.40`	`kergoth`	`mscdex: Had to rewrite the Z keyboard driver from the ground up, so I'm pretty familiar with keyboard drivers and the input layer now`
`04:04.45`	`kergoth`	`mscdex: they'll be on the news page, and in the changelog`
`04:04.59`	`mscdex`	`ok`
`04:05.02`	`mscdex`	`thanks :)`
`04:05.09`	`kergoth`	`np`
`04:05.13`	`*** part/#openzaurus mscdex (fiftysix-k@1Cust234.tnt2.dayton-metro.oh.da.uu.net)`
`04:05.21`	`kenb`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: co$t ?`
`04:05.25`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`0`
`04:05.39`	`kergoth`	`kenb: the demo sdk is a free CD from them, no charge, includes the ARM ARM pdf and other useful bits`
`04:05.40`	`kenb`	`I don't see the URL..`
`04:05.52`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`www.arm.com`
`04:06.04`	`kenb`	`i'm there..`
`04:06.15`	`kenb`	`ARM Technical Publications CD Request?`
`04:06.51`	`kergoth`	`note to those running disarm, if you edit the perl script, and add '-M reg-names-std' to @Dis_opts, you'll get the standard register names per the ARM ARM, rather than the GNU naming`
`04:06.55`	`kergoth`	`I prefer that myself.`
`04:07.16`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`http://www.arm.com/devtools/ads_eval?OpenDocument&style=Dev_Tools`
`04:07.39`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hi`
`04:07.46`	`kergoth`	`hey TheMasterMind1`
`04:07.52`	`TheMasterMind1`	`whatsnew`
`04:09.04`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kergoth: I just reordered the documentation CD`
`04:09.15`	`kergoth`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: hehe, good luck`
`04:09.51`	`kenb`	`I just ordered a copy too`
`04:10.30`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kenb: http://www.arm.com/devtools/ads_eval?OpenDocument&style=Dev_Tools`
`04:10.54`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`strh r3, [r1]`
`04:11.38`	`kenb`	`paste busted?`
`04:12.08`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kenb: nope wrong window`
`04:13.32`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`laterz guy`
`04:13.58`	`kergoth`	`0xf0000000 is the base addr for locomo, all ldr/stm referencing those addrs are accessing locomo.`
`04:16.12`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kergoth: you get that from where`
`04:16.29`	`kergoth`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: arch/arm/mach-sa1100/collie.c has the static memory mapping`
`04:17.35`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kergoth: maybe we can firgure out the locomo register that way`
`04:18.00`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`04:18.07`	`kergoth`	`we can definately see how it accesses the SPI registers, yeah`
`04:20.35`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kergoth: weeks of works`
`04:20.41`	`kergoth`	`indeed.`
`04:21.12`	`*** join/#openzaurus victorvdl (~victorvdl@ip208.van98.pacifier.com)`
`04:21.16`	`ljp_`	`hey this doesnt work. and there's no usage help or nothin`
`04:24.07`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`kergoth: I'm off`
`04:24.13`	`kergoth`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: night`
`04:25.53`	`victorvdl`	`Ooh, nickserv is dead...`
`04:26.45`	`chouimat\|Zzzz`	`huh?`
`04:27.20`	`victorvdl`	`chouimat\|Zzzz: Nickserv is currently non-functional.`
`04:37.36`	`*** join/#openzaurus walters (walters@verbum.org)`
`04:52.55`	`*** join/#openzaurus james_lan (~james@ip68-102-114-12.ks.ok.cox.net)`
`04:53.16`	`james_lan`	`hey, it is possible to flash from a FAT32!`
`04:53.40`	`ljp_`	`no`
`04:53.41`	`james_lan`	`I just found out the card I used to flash oz3.1rc1 s fat 32,`
`04:55.50`	`james_lan`	`according to fsck.vfat`
`04:58.13`	`james_lan`	`ok, might be fat16, anyone good at decyphering fsck.msdos -v?`
`05:00.07`	`james_lan`	`hope no one minds me spitting this out:[root@localhost root]# fsck.msdos -v /dev/sda1`
`05:00.07`	`james_lan`	`dosfsck 2.8 (28 Feb 2001)`
`05:00.07`	`james_lan`	`dosfsck 2.8, 28 Feb 2001, FAT32, LFN`
`05:00.07`	`james_lan`	`Boot sector contents:`
`05:00.07`	`james_lan`	`System ID "mkdosfs"`
`05:00.07`	`kergoth`	`just wipe it with mkfs.vfat -F 16.. heh`
`05:00.07`	`james_lan`	`Media byte 0xf8 (hard disk)`
`05:00.09`	`james_lan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:00.11`	`james_lan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:00.13`	`james_lan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:00.15`	`james_lan`	`First FAT starts at byte 512 (sector 1)`
`05:00.17`	`james_lan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:00.19`	`james_lan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:00.21`	`james_lan`	`Root directory starts at byte 96768 (sector 189)`
`05:00.23`	`james_lan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:00.25`	`james_lan`	`Data area starts at byte 113152 (sector 221)`
`05:00.30`	`james_lan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:00.32`	`james_lan`	`32 sectors/track, 4 heads`
`05:00.33`	`james_lan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:00.36`	`james_lan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:00.37`	`james_lan`	`Checking for unused clusters.`
`05:00.39`	`kergoth`	`james_lan: STOP IT`
`05:00.39`	`james_lan`	`/dev/sda1: 2 files, 7652/24000 clusters`
`05:00.45`	`kergoth`	`james_lan: stupid motherfucker.`
`05:00.45`	`james_lan`	`sorry`
`05:00.48`	`kergoth`	`james_lan: DO NOT FLOOD`
`05:00.53`	`kergoth`	`james_lan: or I WILL ban your ass.`
`05:01.00`	`kergoth`	`#flood exists for a reason.`
`05:01.06`	`james_lan`	`ok`
`05:01.27`	`kergoth`	`jesus, read a fucking IRC ettiquite site or something`
`05:01.50`	`ljp_`	`I dont mind a little bit, cause I am on dsl`
`05:04.30`	`james_lan`	`I tried sending an email to someone at real about that and has as of yet recieved no response.`
`05:05.46`	`ljp_`	`oh, you have to sign up at helixcommunity, click through licenses, and then dl and sign commercial license agreements to get real* codecs code`
`05:08.55`	`james_lan`	`when I last looked there wasn't anything like that. (been a while) might have to see about that.`
`05:12.07`	`ljp_`	`there is now`
`05:16.53`	`ljp_`	`cept the client uses motif`
`05:20.23`	`ljp_`	`it'll soon also use qtemebdded, if I can help it`
`05:23.51`	`kergoth`	`motif? ew`
`05:24.24`	`Bala`	`at least its not Xaw :)`
`05:25.09`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`05:30.13`	`ljp_`	`eeesch true that`
`05:30.34`	`ljp_`	`god gtk would be better than motif`
`05:32.16`	`ljp_`	`I'm not even going to install motif on this machine.`
`05:32.28`	`ljp_`	`I'll make it popup in qvfb first`
`05:35.32`	`ljp_`	`heh the guiplayer runs the same on windows as it does on linux: seg fault`
`05:36.53`	`ljp_`	`essch who wrote this crap. same as the first and second realnetworks sdk for linux/unix`
`05:37.11`	`ljp_`	`commandline works.. gui wont`
`05:40.02`	`ljp_`	`suppose it would be easier to base it off off the windows code than the motif code?...`
`05:43.54`	`ljp_`	`hey! I have windows gui!`
`05:58.15`	`*** join/#openzaurus tez (adamk1@adamk1.demon.co.uk)`
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`06:05.53`	`james_lan`	`eww. the licence (attachment g) is really a viral one. (GPL ain't viral really, but the - you will provide 2 copies of any devel tools - and then some of the other language, is.)`
`06:06.25`	`james_lan`	`viral licences (imo) have to spread up AND down, this one does.`
`06:22.12`	`*** join/#openzaurus HydraIRC (~hydrairc@dialup-133-149.tenforward.com)`
`06:22.27`	`HydraIRC`	`oi`
`06:22.32`	`HydraIRC`	`uh`
`06:22.56`	`caek`	`Can I get a X based distrobution of openzaurus?`
`06:23.39`	`caek`	`How would I make my own initrd.bin?`
`06:27.05`	`*** join/#openzaurus tez (adamk1@adamk1.demon.co.uk)`
`06:27.36`	`caek`	`?`
`06:28.02`	`caek`	`Should I just get the sources via bk?`
`06:28.21`	`caek`	`Will I be able to build an initrd.bin with those and a zImage?`
`06:30.54`	`caek`	`!`
`06:31.01`	`caek`	`Motha Fuckas`
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`07:25.59`	`nobse`	`caek: http://www.openzaurus.org/oz_website/faq/faq?id=84`
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`07:59.17`	`schurig`	`Good Morning!`
`07:59.38`	`tux_mike`	`only technically`
`08:10.32`	`*** join/#openzaurus hamsta (jens@doyle.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.de)`
`08:10.44`	`hamsta`	`hi`
`08:13.31`	`hamsta`	`:-)`
`08:14.28`	`hamsta`	`entries get duplicated, moved to other days and everything without syncing even once`
`08:14.59`	`caek`	`HOw long will it take me to build root on my athlon xp 1800?`
`08:15.23`	`caek`	`Why should it take so long?`
`08:15.38`	`caek`	`I don't see why cross compiling takes longer then regular compilign?`
`08:16.43`	`tux_mike`	`caek: long time. a lot of code needs to ghet compiled, and c++ is a compilation dog`
`08:17.02`	`tux_mike`	`xcompile isn't necissarily slower or faster`
`08:17.07`	`caek`	`ah`
`08:17.19`	`caek`	`I don't want opie`
`08:17.22`	`caek`	`that crap sucks`
`08:17.26`	`tux_mike`	`hamsta: i've been having a lot of problems with all the opie pim apps.`
`08:18.27`	`caek`	`Is there anyway to interface the shortcut buttons on the z to programs?`
`08:18.34`	`hamsta`	`the minor bugs are no problem for me, but moving appointments are a really big one...`
`08:19.04`	`tux_mike`	`hamsta: yah... i can't use the task list.`
`08:19.14`	`tux_mike`	`i just live with it`
`08:19.19`	`hamsta`	`tux_mike: yeah, heart about these problems`
`08:19.35`	`hamsta`	`caek, there is a small program in opie to do that`
`08:20.06`	`caek`	`really?`
`08:20.09`	`hamsta`	`yeah`
`08:20.16`	`caek`	`You know the name?`
`08:20.27`	`hamsta`	`moment...`
`08:20.32`	`caek`	`could I map the buttons to characters?`
`08:21.17`	`hamsta`	`no, it is just to start your favorite programs`
`08:21.27`	`tux_mike`	`caek: it's possible`
`08:21.35`	`tux_mike`	`you have to figure out the mappings thoug`
`08:22.38`	`caek`	`damn`
`08:22.40`	`hamsta`	`yeah, of course, this is the hard way :-)`
`08:22.54`	`caek`	`I don't like opie`
`08:22.58`	`caek`	`Hate it really`
`08:23.00`	`hamsta`	`btw: prog is called application key gg`
`08:23.13`	`caek`	`Rather use fluxbox with fluxbox icons.`
`08:23.51`	`caek`	`or just cmd line :P`
`08:25.28`	`hamsta`	`that's linux... everybody has his favorites... /me likes opie...`
`08:27.07`	`caek`	`it is an awesome interface..`
`08:27.15`	`caek`	`very customizable and easy to use.`
`08:27.28`	`caek`	`But its mostly bloat for me.`
`08:27.36`	`caek`	`I don't use 1/10th of it`
`08:28.59`	`caek`	`Never had much use for a pim or that stuff.`
`08:29.33`	`schurig`	`caek: if you don't need opie, then the logest part in crosscompilation is glibc. Also, when you download a crosscompiler and don't compile it from source, you save lots of time.`
`08:30.37`	`schurig`	`caek: by then way: when you don't want the PIM parts of opie, then just don't install those IPKs.`
`08:31.03`	`schurig`	`caek: OPIE will be fine when you only install MineSweeper,Tetris, Parachuter etc :-)`
`08:31.13`	`caek`	`hehe`
`08:31.28`	`caek`	`What will be easier on system resources?`
`08:31.35`	`caek`	`opie or X?`
`08:31.47`	`tux_mike`	`depends`
`08:32.09`	`caek`	`on what?`
`08:32.16`	`tux_mike`	`what you do with x`
`08:32.42`	`caek`	`I pretty much just want to use regular xmms at most.`
`08:33.06`	`tux_mike`	`depends on your WM and environment`
`08:33.33`	`caek`	`would fluxbox be better then opie? requirements wise?`
`08:33.45`	`caek`	`or would windowmaker be an even better choice?`
`08:34.34`	`tux_mike`	`i would not use desktop WMs`
`08:34.56`	`caek`	`just twm or such?`
`08:35.12`	`tux_mike`	`twm will prolly be worse`
`08:35.24`	`caek`	`awm or something claims to use less memory then a rxvt.`
`08:35.28`	`tux_mike`	`keep in mind, you don't have the same system you have on the deskop`
`08:35.39`	`caek`	`yea I understand`
`08:35.49`	`tux_mike`	`you should really use a wm with pda in mind`
`08:35.55`	`caek`	`But I have ran windowmaker on 486's.`
`08:36.16`	`tux_mike`	`no, i'm talking about input. not performance`
`08:36.29`	`tux_mike`	`stuff like input, memory restrictions.`
`08:36.32`	`caek`	`well, some blackbox deriative would be decent.`
`08:36.46`	`caek`	`I would think at least.`
`08:36.49`	`tux_mike`	`if it needs middle or right click ever, throw it out`
`08:36.50`	`caek`	`I probably should try this out`
`08:37.07`	`caek`	`heh`
`08:37.55`	`tux_mike`	`if it requires any dragging, it will be a pain in the ass`
`08:38.06`	`tux_mike`	`touchscreens work nothing like a mouse`
`08:38.16`	`*** join/#openzaurus lsmith (~vandal@pD9E772FD.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`08:38.17`	`tux_mike`	`and you can't work with sloppy focus`
`08:38.51`	`caek`	`damn`
`08:39.17`	`tux_mike`	`didnt think of that, did ya?`
`08:40.08`	`*** join/#openzaurus HydraIRC (~hydrairc@dialup-133-157.tenforward.com)`
`08:42.12`	`HydraIRC`	`well damn`
`08:43.18`	`HydraIRC`	`any X wm aimed towards pda use?`
`08:43.35`	`HydraIRC`	`my name won't change now`
`08:43.43`	`HydraIRC`	`heh fun beta software`
`08:43.49`	`mewyn`	`not as far as i know`
`08:44.11`	`mewyn`	`i think there is some, but i don't know of it`
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`08:48.15`	`mewyn`	`just remember this, not all computers will work like a pc`
`08:48.26`	`HydraIRC`	`oh yea`
`08:55.13`	`*** join/#openzaurus tez (adamk1@adamk1.demon.co.uk)`
`08:55.39`	`HydraIRC`	`man`
`08:55.47`	`HydraIRC`	`seems like interest in the Z is dying..`
`08:56.27`	`HydraIRC`	`Seems like 6 months ago many people were into developement of software on the Z now it seems like People just don't give a shit.`
`08:56.28`	`mewyn`	`it's a pda`
`08:56.38`	`HydraIRC`	`yea`
`08:56.44`	`mewyn`	`no, there's still good development going on`
`08:56.56`	`HydraIRC`	`oz is about it.`
`08:57.19`	`HydraIRC`	`From what I have seen at least.`
`08:57.27`	`crankybastage00`	`HydraIRC: if you're looking for something not-X and not-opie, you could work on PicoGUI :)`
`08:57.53`	`HydraIRC`	`not interested in that ;D`
`08:57.56`	`schurig\|work`	`Or maybe at gpe.handhelds.org`
`08:58.04`	`HydraIRC`	`I want X support badly.`
`08:58.14`	`crankybastage00`	`X already works`
`08:58.31`	`HydraIRC`	`Yea I just want X`
`08:58.58`	`crankybastage00`	`you can compile OZ without opie`
`08:58.59`	`HydraIRC`	`well a wm`
`08:59.09`	`HydraIRC`	`Yea I am planning on doing that..`
`09:01.52`	`HydraIRC`	`http://hacks.dlux.hu/ipaq/screenshots/icewm/1.gif`
`09:01.54`	`Twiun`	`mornin folks`
`09:01.55`	`HydraIRC`	`that looks good`
`09:02.34`	`mewyn`	`no, it doesnt`
`09:03.16`	`HydraIRC`	`to me at least.`
`09:04.13`	`mewyn`	`menus are cut off, font is extremely hard to read. widgets look bad.`
`09:04.21`	`HydraIRC`	`Yea`
`09:04.26`	`HydraIRC`	`I could probably fix that tho.`
`09:04.40`	`mewyn`	`wi'm going to bed now`
`09:06.53`	`HydraIRC`	`pce`
`09:15.50`	`hamsta`	`damn, my battery is at 3% :-(`
`09:23.18`	`schurig`	`kernel hacking is fun :-)`
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`10:15.11`	`hamsta`	`cu...`
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`11:15.19`	`mickeyl`	`schurig: ping`
`11:15.31`	`schurig`	`pong`
`11:16.23`	`mickeyl`	`hi good morning. i have a problem with buildroot. glibc2.2.4 calls /*`
`11:16.23`	`mickeyl`	`� � � � � � � � This file is part of the Opie Project`
`11:16.23`	`mickeyl`	`� � � � � � � Copyright (C) 2003 Michael Lauer <mickey@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de>`
`11:16.23`	`mickeyl`	`Copyright (C) 2001,2002 Ellis Whitehead <ellis@kde.org>`
`11:16.23`	`mickeyl`	`=.`
`11:16.23`	`mickeyl`	`.=l.`
`11:16.50`	`*** join/#openzaurus mickeyl (mickey@gandalf.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de)`
`11:16.59`	`schurig`	`hehe: Signoff: mickeyl (Excess Flood)`
`11:17.36`	`tronical`	`mickeyl: I think replacing the direct getsources.pl calls with $(GETSOURCES) will fix it (at least it did with glibc 2.3.1)`
`11:18.34`	`mickeyl`	`damn irc client`
`11:18.36`	`mickeyl`	`cut'n'paste error in line 1`
`11:18.38`	`mickeyl`	`hehe`
`11:18.40`	`mickeyl`	`ok, once again.`
`11:18.42`	`mickeyl`	`tronical: ah fine. i will do this now. if it works, i will bk push, ok?`
`11:18.48`	`tronical`	`mickeyl: sure`
`11:25.19`	`mickeyl`	`tronical: why do you checkout linux-2.5 from bk?`
`11:27.04`	`tronical`	`mickeyl: because I try to track the sparc32 changes (hoping for the day that 2.5 will finally boot on sun4m again ;(`
`11:27.35`	`mickeyl`	`tronical: ah i see...`
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`11:41.57`	`*** join/#openzaurus icefox (~ben@gatekeepernj3.sharpsec.com)`
`11:41.58`	`icefox`	`Good Morning!`
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`12:17.57`	`mickeyl`	`tronical: hmm... the current OPIE dependencies are suboptimal, since I no longer can build opie without building libxine...`
`12:18.47`	`tronical`	`mickeyl: what's the problem with that?`
`12:18.55`	`tronical`	`mickeyl: it's not that op2 and libxine get installed into flash by default`
`12:20.06`	`mickeyl`	`tronical: never build an initrd, yet. how can i specify what gets into the initrd?`
`12:20.26`	`tronical`	`mickeyl: the Makefiles themselves specify it, through the rootinstall target`
`12:20.56`	`mickeyl`	`tronical: aah of course, yeah.`
`12:25.48`	`mickeyl`	`damn... the buildroot is pretty fscked up at the moment...`
`12:26.16`	`mickeyl`	`usr/local/projects/openzaurus/output/staging/bin/libtoolize: line 1: cd: /usr/local/projects/openzaurus/build/libtool-1.4.2: No such file or directory`
`12:26.29`	`mickeyl`	`libtool is now 1.4.3... where do all these hardcoded paths come from?`
`12:29.17`	`schurig`	`mickeyl: maybe only your staging directory is fucked up?`
`12:30.11`	`mickeyl`	`schurig: hehe... no, it's (once again) tslib, where libtool-1.4.2 is hardcoded. changing this now to 1.4.3`
`12:31.23`	`tronical`	`mickeyl: ouch, that's ugly (the hardcoded libtool vresion :-((`
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`12:52.41`	`hamsta`	`hi`
`12:53.37`	`hamsta`	just saw the news on openzaurus.org about sharp`s SD-reply :-\|
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`12:57.55`	`mickeyl`	`"the manpower to compile it against a newer kernel"... this is laughable, if we take the work done by the OZ kernel hackers into account.`
`12:57.57`	`mickeyl`	`pfff`
`12:58.22`	`mickeyl`	`when will they finally understand, that we're working in our free time to make THEIR platform better.`
`12:59.18`	`icefox`	`mickeyl: they wont`
`12:59.29`	`icefox`	`because they don't have the resources to let you make it better`
`13:03.16`	`hamsta`	`even if the would not use the work done by the OZ developers, they would still profit by more hardware being sold...`
`13:04.20`	`icefox`	`yup`
`13:04.24`	`icefox`	`it is a crazy system`
`13:04.37`	`icefox`	`I try to help, but I fear I do little`
`13:06.27`	`hamsta`	`we will see... /me hopes that any lucky guy can port the 2.4.6 binary module...`
`13:14.09`	`schurig`	`sharp sucks`
`13:14.12`	`schurig`	`:-)`
`13:15.15`	`hamsta`	`closed source sucks...`
`13:16.28`	`tronical`	`icefox: you don't have access to the sd source for recompiling, I guess?`
`13:16.41`	`icefox`	`nope, I don't have access to squat`
`13:16.41`	`hamsta`	`sharp developed the zaurus, the only thing I was worried about when I bought it, was the closed source SD-solution... (I need 2 slots because of my wireless card)`
`13:17.04`	`tronical`	`and they wouldn't grant you access for that? :}`
`13:17.41`	`icefox`	`no because "I" work with with outsiders`
`13:17.48`	`icefox`	`i.e. it was political and shouldn't ask`
`13:18.04`	`tronical`	`oh, I see`
`13:18.19`	`mickeyl`	`well if all things go wrong, then i guess we will support SanDisk and buy lots of their WLAN/Memory combination cards ;-(`
`13:19.58`	`kenb`	`yup`
`13:20.09`	`kenb`	`Gotta wait until March or May or something tho ;(`
`13:21.52`	`oob`	`no SD support is a show stopper for OZ. sharp must know this. Question: what's in it for Sharp to fuck OZ over ?`
`13:22.38`	`icefox`	`nothing`
`13:22.46`	`icefox`	`a loss`
`13:23.41`	`oob`	`they are on a path to generating a lot of enmity with the OZ community. sharp should appreciate that they are not the only game in town, that we now have a choice of linux pda platforms`
`13:24.37`	`tronical`	`oob: why should they bother about oz?`
`13:24.41`	`oob`	`not that sharep shoudl be held rto ransom, but they need to appreciate that "partnership with the open source community" != "commercial relationship with trolltech"`
`13:25.27`	`lsmith`	`oob: not that much trolltech .. lineo is more the problem here`
`13:25.27`	`hamsta`	`tronical: OZ is a reason for customers to buy the sharp hardware...`
`13:25.51`	`oob`	`lsmith: true`
`13:26.08`	`tronical`	`hamsta: I can't imagine that many typical customers by a Z just because of OZ`
`13:26.15`	`tronical`	`by=buy`
`13:26.30`	`icefox`	`well it isn't a 1 choice problem`
`13:26.38`	`icefox`	`the problem has many areas`
`13:26.55`	`icefox`	`the effort to build sd drivers etc`
`13:26.56`	`hamsta`	`I have bought my zaurus about 1/2 a year ago, I have looked at OZ, although it was not usable enough for me, it was one good reason for that PDA...`
`13:27.27`	`icefox`	`Lineo/Sharp Japan/Translation issues`
`13:27.49`	`tronical`	`hamsta: I believe the majority of the typical Z customers by the little box to do some work with it and they remain on the sharp linux because that's what sharp supports, if there are problems`
`13:27.57`	`tronical`	`by=buy - damnit`
`13:29.12`	`hamsta`	`tronical: I do not think so, because the typical Z user is a linux hacker or at least someone with good linux skills (at least at the moment), and these guys typically like OZ much more than RZ...`
`13:29.36`	`tronical`	`hamsta: I wonder actually how many customers flash their Z for an upgrade. after all it's quite a 'hacky' thing (pressing those two buttons, timing thing, all fishy :)`
`13:29.56`	`hamsta`	`:-)`
`13:29.59`	`tronical`	`hamsta: if the majority of Z users are linux hackers then sharp probably failed in their marketing :}`
`13:30.20`	`tronical`	`hamsta: or has not succeeded yet, to put it nicer :)`
`13:30.23`	`icefox`	`well we are going after the enterprise market`
`13:30.26`	`hamsta`	`yeah, but the money is still running, and that's important and not what the marketing says...`
`13:30.27`	`icefox`	`don't give up yet`
`13:30.32`	`icefox`	`we are still working on it`
`13:30.36`	`Cloudchaser`	`icefox with what enterprise solutions?`
`13:30.50`	`icefox`	`?`
`13:30.56`	`Cloudchaser`	`synch/data portability is a joke on the zaurus`
`13:31.04`	`Cloudchaser`	`there's no real email application`
`13:31.18`	`icefox`	`hey I just do developer support`
`13:31.18`	`tronical`	`icefox: yeah, I think it's not surprising that the first Z models are not a huge mass success. I guess it's an investement in the future, to gain experience with the whole pda market, to be able to bring out a true mass marked box when the time has come`
`13:31.23`	`icefox`	`you can buzz marketing for that`
`13:31.28`	`Cloudchaser`	`hehe`
`13:31.46`	`icefox`	`tronical: except that Sharp is the PDA company. Remember the wizard`
`13:31.54`	`icefox`	`so experiance isn't an issue`
`13:32.31`	`tronical`	`wizard?`
`13:32.33`	`Cloudchaser`	`but in order to get widespread developer support, there has to be a big market for the applications`
`13:32.56`	`Cloudchaser`	`so the more people that have zauruses, the more commericial applications there will be`
`13:33.29`	`tronical`	`Cloudchaser: right. a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem :)`
`13:33.35`	`icefox`	`tronical: the original pda from the early 90's`
`13:33.44`	`Cloudchaser`	`its like ...linux on the desktop..if there's 2 platforms..one will do everything i want it to and one does only some things..which one will i have to use in an enterprise?`
`13:33.54`	`icefox`	`held hundreds! of addresses etc`
`13:34.35`	`Cloudchaser`	`i have an old wizard`
`13:34.48`	`Cloudchaser`	`well i had one.. gave it to my brother`
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`13:37.43`	`hamsta`	`Imho the opensource community will provide most applications, that are now not avaiable or not usefull... there are enough developers at the moment, so that the progress is running (although it is running slow)...`
`13:38.55`	`Cloudchaser`	`hamsta: the open source community doesn't have necessarily have the resources`
`13:39.40`	`Cloudchaser`	`one thing i've seen from being in these irc channels`
`13:39.50`	`Cloudchaser`	`the developers develop what they want`
`13:40.03`	`Cloudchaser`	`not necessarily what customers might want`
`13:40.08`	`icefox`	`enough developer and you develop just about everything`
`13:40.11`	`icefox`	`see kde`
`13:40.15`	`hamsta`	`Cloudchaser: yeah, but many people who have a Z at the moment is doing some kind of developer work, so the progress is slow but it is running...`
`13:40.56`	`Cloudchaser`	`and reading the customer applications requests that spencer posted about..there's still some crucial ones missing`
`13:41.10`	`icefox`	`?`
`13:41.20`	`icefox`	`qhat requests?`
`13:41.22`	`icefox`	`what`
`13:41.33`	`hamsta`	`I have ported freeswan for the RZ some month ago (today it is running well on OZ, too, but this only depends on my work), and I have allready read about some banks, who wants to use Z, because encryption now is possible...`
`13:41.41`	`Cloudchaser`	`he posted a link to a page that shows customer application request`
`13:41.50`	`icefox`	`oh I didn't know`
`13:41.54`	`icefox`	`yah vpn is probably #1`
`13:42.02`	`Cloudchaser`	`dating back to last year`
`13:42.11`	`Cloudchaser`	`fairly early last year`
`13:42.23`	`icefox`	`write me a vpn client with a gui (GPL) and I will pay you for it`
`13:42.24`	`Cloudchaser`	`email is another one`
`13:42.30`	`hamsta`	`ofcourse, there are still very important things missing at the moment (eg. email / newsreader), but the progress is running....`
`13:42.34`	`Cloudchaser`	`tkc is just about there`
`13:42.39`	`Cloudchaser`	`for pop anyway`
`13:42.47`	`Cloudchaser`	`imap isn't there yet`
`13:42.49`	`icefox`	`I can see the day that they make a ROM`
`13:42.59`	`icefox`	`just sweep out from under`
`13:43.04`	`Cloudchaser`	`that would be very cool`
`13:43.05`	`hamsta`	`icefox: I should write a gui for "/etc/init.d/ipsec start \| stop"? You only need two buttons +gg+`
`13:43.09`	`Cloudchaser`	`but still not the total answer`
`13:43.10`	`icefox`	`I don't know about cool`
`13:43.40`	`icefox`	`hamsta: with a gui to edit all fo the configs, help docs, and the ability to start/stop and see if it was successfull/failed and why`
`13:44.23`	`hamsta`	`vpn is a shell app, and config is only set up once... so you can easily do this on your PC...`
`13:44.45`	`icefox`	`yah, but a GUI app still is needed`
`13:45.12`	`hamsta`	`maybe..`
`13:45.19`	`Cloudchaser`	`icefox: i agree`
`13:45.36`	`Cloudchaser`	`pda is all about tap tap tap`
`13:45.38`	`Cloudchaser`	`:)`
`13:45.44`	`icefox`	`yup`
`13:45.53`	`Cloudchaser`	`and the less taps the better`
`13:46.14`	`icefox`	`I want someone to make the windows tablet game for the z`
`13:46.17`	`Cloudchaser`	`which is why i totally can't understand the lack of file sync`
`13:46.17`	`kenb`	`VPN is done...`
`13:46.32`	`icefox`	`a gui?`
`13:46.36`	`kenb`	`no`
`13:46.42`	`hamsta`	`It is needed for customers, who want to use a VPN, but customers who set up a VPN do really not need a gui, because that is sysadmins work, and that gui just has to give a working config to the user (who than ofcourse needed two buttons gg)`
`13:47.11`	`kenb`	`hamsta: write a GUI please ;) I'll work with you on it (/me maintains ZeeS/WAN)`
`13:47.16`	`icefox`	`ok maybe so, but even the Sharp sys-admin didnt' know about free swan`
`13:47.41`	`icefox`	`she heard of it somewhere in a readme....`
`13:47.43`	`hamsta`	`kenb: I think you got my sources :-)`
`13:47.44`	`oob`	`that's not good`
`13:47.54`	`Cloudchaser`	`if your'e going for enterprise...vpn should be built in so to speak`
`13:47.59`	`icefox`	`She had spent her time perfrecting the windows clients to just install and work`
`13:48.00`	`kenb`	`hamsta: ah. hi jens!`
`13:48.02`	`hamsta`	`kenb: hamsta == jens,`
`13:48.03`	`hamsta`	`:-))`
`13:48.30`	`kenb`	`so yea. a real config tool is needed...`
`13:48.37`	`kenb`	`just basic config tho`
`13:48.54`	`kenb`	`ie: "server" and auth-key (PSK)`
`13:49.24`	`kenb`	`and "enable/disable" NAT-Traversal`
`13:49.28`	`hamsta`	`yepp`
`13:49.39`	`kenb`	`Since ZeeS/WAN 1.99.2 supports NAT-T now`
`13:49.46`	`hamsta`	`I think this is no big task for someone with QT-knowledge...`
`13:49.56`	`icefox`	`How much would it be worth for someone to do all of that?`
`13:50.01`	`kenb`	`Yea. All my GUI has been GTK/Gnome in the past`
`13:50.16`	`kenb`	`Otherwise I'd be coding it right now`
`13:50.40`	`kenb`	`icefox: you tell me. Sharp's targeting Enterprise. PocketPC already has VPN support.`
`13:50.44`	`hamsta`	`what a pitty, I have to leave now, have an appointment waiting...`
`13:50.51`	`Cloudchaser`	`i have a question for you...`
`13:51.02`	`Cloudchaser`	`what exactly do you think enterprises want from a pda?`
`13:51.11`	`Cloudchaser`	`to me i think...extension of their desktop`
`13:51.15`	`hamsta`	`CU later all`
`13:51.36`	`kenb`	`connectivity to PIM+Email, Securely, with wireless`
`13:51.38`	`icefox`	`later`
`13:51.44`	`Cloudchaser`	`they want to pop their handheld into a cradle and have some sort of data transfer from desktop to pda`
`13:51.47`	`icefox`	`they want vpn and e-mail`
`13:51.54`	`kenb`	`yup`
`13:51.56`	`Cloudchaser`	`and they want their data`
`13:52.03`	`icefox`	`databases`
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`13:52.14`	`Cloudchaser`	`and documents`
`13:52.16`	`Cloudchaser`	`and information`
`13:52.17`	`kenb`	`So if there's a guide to QT coding for the Z, I'll write a GUI`
`13:52.32`	`Cloudchaser`	`now...i have a bunch of data in directories on my pc`
`13:52.36`	`icefox`	`kenb: it is pretty much straight Qt minus a few unused classes`
`13:53.07`	`Cloudchaser`	`i want it to go to my z when i pop the z into the cradle and sync...and it want the directory structure intact`
`13:53.17`	`kenb`	`icefox: I've never written for QT before`
`13:53.57`	`Cloudchaser`	`hell i can't even get qtopia desktop to run on my pc (linux version) beta 2 of 1.6`
`13:54.27`	`ljp`	`hmmm`
`13:54.49`	`icefox`	`kenb: I would check out a Qt turorials then`
`13:54.52`	`icefox`	`doc.trolltech.com`
`13:54.59`	`icefox`	`shouldn't take you too long`
`13:55.19`	`kenb`	`k`
`13:55.39`	`kenb`	`bbiab.. heading into office`
`14:01.24`	`ljp`	`qt is easy`
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`14:12.47`	`datenpunk`	`hello`
`14:19.49`	`schurig`	`kenb: there is no real guide of Qt coding for Z, you always code the same in Qt, no matter if its for Z or X11/x86. So the normal doc fot Qt applies, which is very good`
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`14:22.55`	`Harlekin`	`hi *`
`14:23.16`	`Cloudchaser`	`hello`
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`14:25.41`	`datenpunk`	`hello - could it be that the opie-todo in the testing feed isn't usable yet?`
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`14:37.40`	`datenpunk`	`carsten: but it isn't possible to view/edit allready entered tasks`
`14:38.51`	`*** join/#openzaurus Dessimat0r (Dessimat0r@public1-birk1-3-cust60.bagu.broadband.ntl.com)`
`14:38.59`	`Dessimat0r`	`erk, i feel a bit wrecked today`
`14:39.04`	`Dessimat0r`	`after late sleep`
`14:39.05`	`Dessimat0r`	`lol`
`14:47.10`	`*** join/#openzaurus Horwitz (mich1@baldrian.franken.de)`
`14:47.15`	`Horwitz`	`re`
`14:55.00`	`*** join/#openzaurus datenpunk (~dk@212.60.172.210)`
`14:55.19`	`datenpunk`	`hello - I have problems with the todo app..`
`14:58.49`	`Dessimat0r`	`from the unstable feed?`
`14:59.42`	`*** part/#openzaurus schurig (~schurig@p5080BDA8.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`15:00.15`	`datenpunk`	`yes - the testing feed`
`15:00.23`	`Dessimat0r`	`thats not unstable`
`15:00.29`	`Dessimat0r`	`get the oen from the unstable feed`
`15:00.34`	`Dessimat0r`	`*one`
`15:00.40`	`Dessimat0r`	`it was updated yesterday`
`15:00.56`	`datenpunk`	`oh - I c - thank you`
`15:01.00`	`phpCure`	`heh`
`15:01.04`	`datenpunk`	`any progress with the irda ppp app?`
`15:01.11`	`Dessimat0r`	`http://www.openzaurus.org/official/unstable/feed/`
`15:01.16`	`Dessimat0r`	`there you go ;)`
`15:01.22`	`phpCure`	`what is openzaurus`
`15:01.39`	`phpCure`	`will it tell me how to open up my zaurus?`
`15:01.52`	`Harlekin`	`try to read the topic`
`15:03.02`	`TheMasterMind1`	`:)`
`15:03.04`	`TheMasterMind1`	`whats up`
`15:03.15`	`pb_`	`hi TMM1`
`15:03.55`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hey pb_`
`15:03.59`	`supermatt`	`TheMasterMind1 was in disguise`
`15:04.47`	`TheMasterMind1`	`good call`
`15:04.47`	`Harlekin`	`it was typical tmasterchild behaviour .)`
`15:04.59`	`TheMasterMind1`	`what can i say, i'm only 16`
`15:05.01`	`kolla`	`I have my Z set to not enter suspend on its own, but only shut off the display.. but when I use xmms it will turn on the display again between tracks... anyone know anything about wether this is a known issue that will be fixed or not?`
`15:05.05`	`supermatt`	`hehe`
`15:05.10`	`Harlekin`	`TheMasterMind1: that old?`
`15:05.21`	`TheMasterMind1`	`Harlekin: yep`
`15:05.41`	`TheMasterMind1`	`kolla: let pnis know, submit a bug report on xmms-embedded sf project or somesuch`
`15:05.42`	`*** join/#openzaurus TrnQuil8y (~oob@81-5-138-97.dsl.eclipse.net.uk)`
`15:05.42`	`supermatt`	`perhaps I'm kergoth in disguide...fucking ts, fucking SD ;)`
`15:06.13`	`kolla`	`ok`
`15:16.08`	`*** join/#openzaurus bipolar (~bflong@24.229.103.140)`
`15:17.36`	`bipolar`	`ibot: seen zecke`
`15:17.40`		`zecke is currently on #opie (1h 27m 28s) #handhelds.org (1h 27m 28s). Has said a total of 4 messages. Is idling for 58m 1s`
`15:22.09`	`datenpunk`	`opie-todo still doesn't show task that are viewed in opie today..`
`15:22.50`	`carsten`	`it does here`
`15:23.28`	`datenpunk`	`carsten: which version are you using?`
`15:23.59`	`carsten`	`14. dec 02`
`15:24.20`	`datenpunk`	`well I am on the latest from unstable`
`15:29.27`	`TheMasterMind1`	`so, anyone ever remotely install debian on a redhat machine?`
`15:32.47`	`*** join/#openzaurus noda (~noda@modemcable136.245-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca)`
`15:32.51`	`noda`	`Moo!`
`15:33.05`	`datenpunk`	`is it possible to set a background image for opie in OZ?`
`15:33.11`	`Dessimat0r`	`hrm, does this work?`
`15:33.16`	`TheMasterMind1`	`noda: !`
`15:33.17`	`TheMasterMind1`	`noda: sup`
`15:33.19`	`noda`	`datenpunk: Yes, using the 'launcher' app under 'settings'`
`15:33.23`	`noda`	`TheMasterMind1: The usual. You?`
`15:33.30`	`TheMasterMind1`	`noda: i'm trying to install debian on a redhat box i don't have physical access to`
`15:33.40`	`noda`	`TheMasterMind1: lol, sounds fun!`
`15:33.46`	`datenpunk`	`noda: oh - thanks a lot!`
`15:33.50`	`noda`	`datenpunk: np`
`15:34.51`	`datenpunk`	`another question: the change of the orientation of an app doesn't work yet (?)`
`15:34.58`	`TheMasterMind1`	`works fine`
`15:35.02`	`TheMasterMind1`	`install qt-embedded-rotation`
`15:35.06`	`noda`	`datenpunk: Did you install opie-rotation? Oh, er, that :P`
`15:35.50`	`datenpunk`	`noda: Thanks - dumb me. If I hear rotation I always thinking about log rotation :)) so I did there :)`
`15:36.08`	`noda`	`:)`
`15:45.55`	`datenpunk`	`background image - the png doesn't seem to work for me - libpng is installed`
`15:50.17`	`*** join/#openzaurus caffeinex36 (caffeine@198.138.254.54)`
`15:51.18`	`kenb`	`does Sharp's Intellisync software not support sync over IP?`
`15:51.30`	`*** join/#openzaurus JasonNJ (~perlowj@gatekeepernj3.sharpsec.com)`
`15:51.48`	`JasonNJ`	`sup.`
`15:52.00`	`kenb`	`Jason...`
`15:52.01`	`TheMasterMind1`	`JasonNJ: hey`
`15:52.06`	`kenb`	`does Sharp's Intellisync software not support sync over IP?`
`15:52.10`	`TheMasterMind1`	`JasonNJ: word from dell?`
`15:52.32`	`JasonNJ`	`not yet but I plan to hook up with them at Linuxworld`
`15:52.40`	`TheMasterMind1`	`cool`
`15:52.54`	`JasonNJ`	`it always works out better in person`
`15:53.48`	`JasonNJ`	`so who's goinna do the i18 ebonics implementation, lol`
`15:53.55`	`TheMasterMind1`	`heh`
`15:54.01`	`datenpunk`	`is there anything I have to install to make the bg image work?`
`15:54.18`	`JasonNJ`	`TMM: I want us to port the ebonics database from dolemite.com to Qt`
`15:54.21`	`datenpunk`	`kenb: sure it does - via usb`
`15:54.28`	`JasonNJ`	`killer app for inner city professionals`
`15:54.57`	`TheMasterMind1`	`datenpunk: use a jpg`
`15:54.58`	`kenb`	`datenpunk: but not directly over IP? ie: I can't sync over the 802.11b cf cards?`
`15:55.08`	`TheMasterMind1`	`JasonNJ: keep me updated about the axim stuff :)`
`15:55.34`	`datenpunk`	`kenb: I didn't try that - sorry`
`15:55.40`	`JasonNJ`	`TMM: its very high on my list`
`15:56.45`	`TheMasterMind1`	`:)`
`15:56.49`	`JasonNJ`	`kergoth: has bzflag talked to you in the past about adopting this new style init process that supposedly dramatically reduces boot up times?`
`15:57.55`	`Dessimat0r`	`man do I love new unstables ;)`
`15:58.08`	`TheMasterMind1`	`JasonNJ: new style?`
`15:58.10`	`TheMasterMind1`	`sounds interesting`
`15:58.10`	`JasonNJ`	`dessimator: whats up there now?`
`15:58.13`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i like debian style`
`15:58.19`	`JasonNJ`	`tmm: it was introduced at the last OLS`
`15:58.28`	`JasonNJ`	`bzflag and I really liked it`
`15:58.44`	`TheMasterMind1`	`ols`
`15:58.44`	`TheMasterMind1`	`?`
`15:58.52`	`JasonNJ`	`Ottawa Linux Symposium`
`15:58.56`	`Dessimat0r`	`lol`
`15:58.58`	`datenpunk`	`TheMasterMind1: jpg doesn't wok either - strange...It seems as if I missed something`
`15:58.59`	`TheMasterMind1`	`ah ok`
`15:59.00`	`JasonNJ`	`its a full replacement for SysV`
`15:59.10`	`Dessimat0r`	`its an unguessable sentence :S`
`15:59.13`	`JasonNJ`	`very streamlined`
`15:59.27`	`TheMasterMind1`	`sounds very cool`
`15:59.34`	`TheMasterMind1`	`JasonNJ: got a link or somesuch?`
`16:00.13`	`JasonNJ`	`I forgot what the heck it was called, dwmw2 may know`
`16:03.08`	`JasonNJ`	`http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2002/view_txt.php?text=bio&talk=18`
`16:03.10`	`JasonNJ`	`this is the dude`
`16:03.21`	`JasonNJ`	`it ran scripts in parallel`
`16:03.37`	`JasonNJ`	`and did dependencies properly`
`16:04.18`	`JasonNJ`	`http://www.atnf.csiro.au/~rgooch/linux/boot-scripts/`
`16:05.01`	`chouimat`	`morning`
`16:07.48`	`Dessimat0r`	`lo`
`16:07.59`	`chouimat`	`hi Dessimat0r`
`16:09.18`	`kergoth`	`morning`
`16:09.25`	`kergoth`	`JasonNJ: he hasnt mentioned it`
`16:09.27`	`Dessimat0r`	`lo kergoth`
`16:09.30`	`chouimat`	`hi kergoth`
`16:09.30`	`kergoth`	`JasonNJ: I'll take a look`
`16:11.40`	`kergoth`	`hm, http://zaurus.spacetown.ne.jp/sl-c700/update/c700update/c700update.asp`
`16:12.10`	`kergoth`	`thank god for babelfish`
`16:12.58`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: huh?`
`16:14.07`	`TheMasterMind1`	`kergoth: hey`
`16:14.13`	`chouimat`	`http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030120&mode=classic`
`16:14.15`	`TheMasterMind1`	`kergoth: it looks pretty cool, just checked it out`
`16:14.21`	`TheMasterMind1`	`kergoth: this new boot script thing that is`
`16:15.39`	`JasonNJ`	`kergoth: they got an update rom alreadY?`
`16:15.58`	`datenpunk`	`again - is there any reason why png and jpg bg images don't work for me :(`
`16:18.03`	`Dessimat0r`	`is it me, or does everything seem to start up just a little bit faster than it did before, on the new OZ unstable?`
`16:21.29`	`*** join/#openzaurus killefiz_ (~sven@ach9-d9bbaaf4.pool.mediaWays.net)`
`16:24.52`	`JasonNJ`	`when was a new unstable added?`
`16:25.29`	`Dessimat0r`	`last night`
`16:32.51`	`*** join/#openzaurus JasonNJ (~perlowj@gatekeepernj3.sharpsec.com)`
`16:32.55`	`kergoth`	`<PROTECTED>`
`16:32.59`	`chouimat`	`http://radios.sourceforge.net/`
`16:34.09`	`*** join/#openzaurus AndyQ (AndyQ_w@pc-80-194-121-147-hy.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`16:34.13`	`AndyQ`	`lo`
`16:34.30`	`*** join/#openzaurus ljp_work (~ljp@03-059.026.popsite.net)`
`16:34.38`	`kergoth`	`hey andy`
`16:34.50`	`AndyQ`	`hows things?`
`16:35.20`	`kergoth`	`not bad, busy as hell at work today.. no oz work till i get off work :)`
`16:35.26`	`AndyQ`	`hehe`
`16:35.57`	`chouimat`	`http://www.davetrainer.com/fark/slashdot_yro.jpg`
`16:36.10`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: I sent you a link to a PDF file (Tim Riker posted it in yesterdays logs) - not sure whether you caught it or even if its any use`
`16:38.00`	`Dessimat0r`	`lo AndyQ`
`16:38.05`	`AndyQ`	`hey Dessimat0r`
`16:38.12`	`Dessimat0r`	`the new AQPkg 0wnz ;)`
`16:38.29`	`AndyQ`	`Dessimat0r: yup - drw did some really nice work on it`
`16:38.40`	`AndyQ`	`plus thelittle fix for upgraded packages is nice`
`16:39.20`	`chouimat`	`AndyQ: and pdf about what?`
`16:39.25`	`Dessimat0r`	`heh`
`16:39.31`	`AndyQ`	`SD and MMC - an intel doc`
`16:39.48`	`chouimat`	`AndyQ: ok for the xscale`
`16:39.48`	`AndyQ`	`seemed to go into some detail (from my VERY limited scan)`
`16:39.49`	`Dessimat0r`	`yeah, it uninstalls all the images, and reinstalls them to their rightful place, and symlinks them back to root`
`16:40.00`	`AndyQ`	`chouimat: not sure`
`16:40.07`	`Dessimat0r`	`tis what i noticed ;)`
`16:40.15`	`AndyQ`	`Tim posted it yesterday`
`16:40.17`	`AndyQ`	`Dessimat0r: yup`
`16:40.23`	`chouimat`	`AndyQ: url?`
`16:40.27`	`AndyQ`	`hang on.....`
`16:40.50`	`AndyQ`	`http://intel.com/design/pca/applicationsprocessors/applnots/278533-001.htm`
`16:41.03`	`AndyQ`	`titled Using SDCard and SDIO with the Intel� PXA250 MMC Controller Application`
`16:41.15`	`AndyQ`	`but it may be of some use (possibly - possibly not at all)`
`16:41.42`	`AndyQ`	`everyone was asleep when it got posted so I thought I'd pass it to kergoth just in case`
`16:41.45`	`*** join/#openzaurus HydraIRC (~hydrairc@dialup-132-125.tenforward.com)`
`16:42.25`	`chouimat`	`AndyQ: ZzzZzzZzzz :)`
`16:42.42`	`AndyQ`	`yup - as I said - I very briefly scanned through it`
`16:47.35`	`Dessimat0r`	`something that annoys me on opie, is that applications are 'hidden' from the taskbar if you have too many running`
`16:47.35`	`*** join/#openzaurus prpplague (~JoeBob1@12.148.134.9)`
`16:47.46`	`Dessimat0r`	`where is the solution there, other than to close the existing apps?`
`16:47.48`	`Dessimat0r`	`;)`
`16:49.21`	`*** join/#openzaurus walters (walters@verbum.org)`
`16:49.22`	`Dessimat0r`	`hrm`
`16:49.22`	`TheMasterMind1`	`AndyQ: yea, its linked to on the oz news item`
`16:49.37`	`Dessimat0r`	`TheMasterMind1: AnyQ has split ;)`
`16:49.41`	`Dessimat0r`	`AndyQ`
`16:49.42`	`Dessimat0r`	`lol`
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`16:52.41`	`chouimat`	`wb all`
`16:53.07`	`Dessimat0r`	`wb`
`16:53.51`	`Dessimat0r`	`brb`
`16:53.57`	`Dessimat0r`	`going to get the net working in linux`
`16:55.26`	`JasonNJ`	`no initrd with the current unstable in it yet?`
`16:55.28`	`kergoth`	`JasonNJ: we arent doing daily initrd/feed updates yet`
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`17:00.46`	`bipolar`	`damn... it's $700 bucks!`
`17:00.52`	`kergoth`	`yep`
`17:00.57`	`kergoth`	`expensive`
`17:01.15`	`bipolar`	`yeah... I'll be able to afford that when I sell my spleen....`
`17:01.15`	`Cloudchaser`	`too much for an unemployed slacker like me`
`17:01.18`	`Cloudchaser`	`hahah`
`17:01.33`	`kergoth`	`lol`
`17:01.46`	`chouimat`	`bipolar: what is 700$`
`17:01.51`	`kergoth`	`if sharp comes out with a similar unit at a lower price it'll sell really well`
`17:01.58`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: c700 in the us, converted to english`
`17:02.34`	`chouimat`	`ibot: change 700 usd to cad`
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`17:03.20`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: that 1075 CAD :(`
`17:03.33`	`*** join/#openzaurus mrwoody (paolo@111-pool2.ras12.nynyc-t.alerondial.net)`
`17:03.40`	`JasonNJ`	`please return the stewardesses to their upgright position`
`17:03.49`	`tronical`	`not good, can't chat, everything scrolls :)`
`17:03.54`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`17:03.57`	`kergoth`	`other than that ;)`
`17:03.58`	`chouimat`	`JasonNJ: it's the table`
`17:04.08`	`AndyQ`	`heh`
`17:04.36`	`AndyQ`	`tronical: I got persistant history in konq last night (Save the last 10 sites you visit`
`17:04.48`	`tronical`	`AndyQ: great!`
`17:05.13`	`AndyQ`	`just testing the konq in the new unstable to see if it still crashes (Onyx4 reported that it was more stable now)`
`17:05.39`	`AndyQ`	`nope - still crashes on www.computerfairs.co.uk`
`17:05.51`	`AndyQ`	`ah well, mine doesn't :)`
`17:05.59`	`AndyQ`	`ibot seen Onyx4`
`17:06.04`		`onyx4 <onyx4@adsl-63-194-216-219.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #openzaurus, 17h 45m 18s ago, saying: 'same for wireless tools'.`
`17:06.04`	`TheMasterMind1`	`ibot botmail for onyx4 qte2.3.4beta4 is out, we need to test it. seems it supports on the fly rotation :)`
`17:06.42`	`AndyQ`	`ibot botmail for onyx4 konqueror still seg faults trying to read www.computerfairs.co.uk (latest unstable)`
`17:06.57`	`*** join/#openzaurus FrenkYo (~0_o@host182-146.pool80182.interbusiness.it)`
`17:06.57`	`AndyQ`	`heh onyx4 will have lots of botmail at this rate :)`
`17:07.07`	`kergoth`	`indeed, i left him one earlier`
`17:07.17`	`kergoth`	`he's the one who volunteered to take over the feed :)`
`17:07.19`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: can I get SFCave-sdl put under buildroot at some point?`
`17:07.40`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: yeah, absolutely. just do it and send someone with write access a patch :)`
`17:07.51`	`*** join/#openzaurus XavierXeon (~mr_x@pD951FE9F.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`17:08.00`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: its a new project - completely different source to the original`
`17:08.20`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: it relys on some SDL libs that are in the OZ buildroot now`
`17:08.41`	`mrwoody`	`AndyQ: how about sfcave-3D?`
`17:08.41`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: who should I send the source to - you, TMM1, Onyx4?`
`17:08.58`	`AndyQ`	`mrwoody: hehe thought about it - need OGL on Z first :)`
`17:09.01`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: we need to add that option to build root -> produce and SDK`
`17:09.29`	`mrwoody`	`AndyQ: good idea! ;-)`
`17:10.13`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: openzaurus-devel@lists.sourceforge.net`
`17:10.26`	`AndyQ`	`hehe - k`
`17:10.39`	`AndyQ`	`who does that go to?`
`17:10.46`	`kergoth`	`whoever's subscribed`
`17:10.48`	`kergoth`	`its just a ML`
`17:10.55`	`kergoth`	`I havent locked down access to it atm`
`17:11.04`	`kergoth`	`:)`
`17:11.06`	`AndyQ`	`so I don't want to post the source there do I`
`17:11.11`	`kergoth`	`..`
`17:11.13`	`kergoth`	`um`
`17:11.17`	`kergoth`	`sources dont go in buildroot`
`17:11.23`	`kergoth`	`buildroot obtains sources from upstream`
`17:11.28`	`kergoth`	`all that is in buildroot is makefiles and patches`
`17:11.39`	`AndyQ`	`ahhhh - OK, where should I store the source :) - any suggestions?`
`17:11.40`	`kergoth`	`it'll download the soruces from your site, extract, and build`
`17:11.48`	`kergoth`	`wherever.. :)`
`17:11.53`	`kergoth`	`sf project?`
`17:12.11`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: we need to make buildroot to use local source before downloading :)`
`17:12.14`	`AndyQ`	`possibly - eother that or opie :)`
`17:12.38`	`AndyQ`	`I'll see what ljp has to say about that`
`17:13.48`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: if I have source in a tgz file, can buildroot extract and build that?`
`17:14.56`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: yes, i know.. Patches welcome! to quote tim`
`17:15.10`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: buildroot can handle tar.gz, tgz, tar.bz2, tar, zip, .gz, etc`
`17:15.11`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: yes`
`17:15.17`	`kergoth`	`heh`
`17:15.34`	`ljp_work`	`about what?`
`17:15.40`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: I don't want to mess with you magnificiant perl :)`
`17:15.42`	`AndyQ`	`OK, cool so I'll just store the code on my site and you can grab it and build it from there then`
`17:16.05`	`AndyQ`	`ljp_work: trying to decide where to store the SFCave-sdl code`
`17:16.09`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: hehe. only getsource is in perl, and thats schurig's not mine :)`
`17:16.21`	`ljp_work`	`opie cvs`
`17:16.52`	`AndyQ`	`ljp_work: thats fine, but opie can't build it (can it) as it uses SDL and a couple of other libraries`
`17:17.42`	`kergoth`	`heh, we dont need the world in opie cvs :)`
`17:18.16`	`ljp_work`	`so, op2 uses xine. launcher uses pam`
`17:18.17`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: but its a nice convienient place to store Open Source code for Opie (especially as its been written for opie) :)`
`17:18.20`	`kergoth`	`ibot: make world`
`17:18.21`		`make: Circular world <- world dependency dropped.`
`17:18.59`	`AndyQ`	`ljp_work: OK, so if I create non-core/games/SFCave-SDL and chuck the source and pro there (I'll set it up so its correct targets)`
`17:19.02`	`kergoth`	`TheMasterMind1, JasonNJ: those boot scripts look sweet`
`17:19.24`	`AndyQ`	`ljp_work: would someone who wants to build opie have to get the SDL stuff? or can they say don't build that?`
`17:19.27`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: we're using the new opie buildsystem, you'll need a config.in .. copy one from another source dir.`
`17:19.37`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: you can select what to build or not build in menuconfig`
`17:19.39`	`ljp_work`	`just have a readme that has a url to get the SLD`
`17:19.49`	`kergoth`	`even better, put comments in teh config.in`
`17:19.50`	`AndyQ`	`new opie buildsystem???? fuck I just got used to the old one`
`17:19.50`	`ljp_work`	`SDL`
`17:20.02`	`ljp_work`	`new is alot better`
`17:20.12`	`ljp_work`	`_a lot_`
`17:20.15`	`AndyQ`	`heh - how? - haven't checked it out recently`
`17:20.19`	`kergoth`	`string "sfcave-sdl (warning: requires libsdl)"`
`17:20.29`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: it uses the same config system as the oz buildroot`
`17:20.33`	`ljp_work`	`it's like the kernels menuconfig`
`17:20.35`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: make config/menuconfig/xconfig .. make`
`17:20.49`	`AndyQ`	`just checkout the latest opie CVS from same place?`
`17:20.56`	`ljp_work`	`althought _some_ apps dont get built`
`17:20.56`	`kergoth`	`yep`
`17:21.00`	`AndyQ`	`opie.handhelds.org`
`17:21.02`	`kergoth`	`ljp_work: what apps?`
`17:21.04`	`ljp_work`	`even if specified`
`17:21.17`	`ljp_work`	`restart applet for one..`
`17:21.23`	`kergoth`	`ljp_work: I can fix any issues, but need bug reports.`
`17:21.30`	`kergoth`	`restartapplet or restartapplet2?`
`17:21.30`	`ljp_work`	`I know :)`
`17:21.33`	`kergoth`	`and why are there two?`
`17:21.35`	`kergoth`	`hehee`
`17:21.42`	`ljp_work`	`havent got around to it, and it wasn't that important to me :D`
`17:21.50`	`kergoth`	`gotcha`
`17:21.56`	`ljp_work`	`one sits on the taskbar, and one sits in the menu`
`17:22.03`	`kergoth`	`ahh gotcha`
`17:22.20`	`chouimat`	`hmm need a huge coffee`
`17:22.20`	`ljp_work`	`maybe rename one menurestartapplet`
`17:23.06`	`AndyQ`	`ljp_work: when was the new buildsystem put in place?`
`17:23.26`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: its been there for a while, but wasnt primary.. it was a seperate Makefile.test`
`17:23.35`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: I replaced the original one compeltely late last week`
`17:23.39`	`kergoth`	`after committing an assload of fixes`
`17:23.42`	`AndyQ`	`ahh - cool - good work :)`
`17:24.50`	`AndyQ`	`OK, so after creating my SFCAve-SDL dir and putting my code there and creating the config.h what else do I need to do?`
`17:25.00`	`kergoth`	`its config.in, not config.h`
`17:25.05`	`kergoth`	`but then you edit the toplevel packages file`
`17:25.12`	`kergoth`	`its the glue betweent eh config system and the makefiles`
`17:25.20`	`kergoth`	`without that, you'll have a menu entry but it wont get built`
`17:25.24`	`AndyQ`	`ahh - probably don't have access to that (not trusted :)`
`17:25.40`	`Harlekin`	`and somebody give sfcave an icon`
`17:25.41`	`kergoth`	`i'll add it for you, let me know when its in place`
`17:25.48`	`AndyQ`	`k`
`17:25.50`	`kergoth`	`Harlekin: hehe`
`17:25.58`	`kergoth`	`does backup's icon still suck? or did that get replaced?`
`17:25.59`	`AndyQ`	`Harlekin: I'll do one soon :)`
`17:26.04`	`kergoth`	`Harlekin: how goes crystal_branch?`
`17:26.27`	`Harlekin`	`kergoth: no time currently and microdim disappeared`
`17:26.48`	`kergoth`	`ah`
`17:26.50`	`*** join/#openzaurus lsmith (~vandal@brln-d514831d.dsl.mediaWays.net)`
`17:27.21`	`ljp_work`	`I could maybe muster up some elbow grease for crystal_branch`
`17:30.45`	`*** join/#openzaurus FrenkYo (~0_o@host182-146.pool80182.interbusiness.it)`
`17:40.40`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: hehe - just checked out make meunconfig and after saving settings get the following:`
`17:40.41`	`AndyQ`	`Next, you may run 'make bzImage', 'make bzdisk', or 'make install'.`
`17:40.43`	`AndyQ`	`lol`
`17:40.48`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`17:40.49`	`kergoth`	`yeah i know`
`17:40.59`	`kergoth`	`i upgraded us to the latest kconfig, forgot to fix those messages :)`
`17:41.05`	`AndyQ`	`hah`
`17:41.52`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: OK, added everything to opie (not commited yet) - just gonna do a complete build and make sure it compiles and stuff and if it works I'll commit and let you know`
`17:42.01`	`AndyQ`	`but have to wait 'kin ages :)`
`17:42.21`	`kergoth`	`cool`
`17:42.38`	`AndyQ`	`it will be good to have it under CVS`
`17:42.46`	`AndyQ`	`nice to track changes (and revert when you fuck up :)`
`17:43.15`	`AndyQ`	`BTW - cervisia is a cool front end for CVS!`
`17:43.53`	`kergoth`	`yup, it is`
`17:44.27`	`AndyQ`	`right - just going to build screen capture into SFCAve and I'll create a spiffy new icon for it`
`17:56.37`	`*** join/#openzaurus oob (~oob@81-5-138-97.dsl.eclipse.net.uk)`
`18:00.59`	`*** join/#openzaurus RealUlli (ujans@pD9E4DCBB.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:01.05`	`RealUlli`	`hi`
`18:12.44`	`beattie`	`ibot oz`
`18:12.45`		`i guess oz is see openzaurus or http://www.openzaurus.org/ or /join #openzaurus`
`18:12.59`	`beattie`	`ibot oz sd`
`18:13.00`		`parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about, beattie`
`18:15.05`	`RealUlli`	`beattie: what's the problem?`
`18:16.45`	`RealUlli`	`beattie: as of yesterday evening, no SD driver for 2.4.19, if that's what you wanted to know... ;-)`
`18:17.14`	`RealUlli`	`that is, today, ca. 0100h GMT.. ;-)`
`18:18.41`	`beattie`	`RealUlli: pretty much, just curious what ibot might have to say`
`18:18.53`	`RealUlli`	`beattie: ok, i c .. :-)`
`18:23.38`	`RealUlli`	`ibot seen kenb`
`18:23.38`		`kenb is currently on #openzaurus (17h 27m 56s). Has said a total of 124 messages. Is idling for 2h 28m 40s`
`18:23.46`	`RealUlli`	`hm.`
`18:24.01`	`RealUlli`	`kenb: ping?`
`18:26.26`	`kenb`	`ping ?`
`18:26.42`	`RealUlli`	`kenb: ah. :_)`
`18:26.59`	`kenb`	`what's up?`
`18:27.03`	`RealUlli`	`kenb: did you finish your opie upgrade yesterday? :-)`
`18:27.16`	`kenb`	`yes.`
`18:27.18`	`kenb`	`finally.`
`18:27.21`	`RealUlli`	`kenb: i was planning to upgrade my Z, too...`
`18:27.31`	`RealUlli`	`kenb: how long did it take?`
`18:27.37`	`kenb`	`you need the 40/24 or higher image`
`18:27.44`	`kenb`	`and it hung 1/2 thru.. around opie-sounds`
`18:27.50`	`kenb`	`so I had to reboot it`
`18:27.53`	`kenb`	`opie crashed on boot`
`18:27.58`	`kenb`	`so I reran the upgrade`
`18:28.06`	`kenb`	`it picked up where it left off, and finished`
`18:28.18`	`RealUlli`	`hmm... ok.. forget it... as long as i don't have a sd card, there will be no image other than 32/32...`
`18:28.33`	`kenb`	`the 32/32 doesn't have enuff ram to uncompress opie-base`
`18:28.43`	`kenb`	`mine sat at 502 byte memory free for an hour`
`18:28.46`	`RealUlli`	`hmm.. what about adding a swap file?`
`18:28.54`	`kenb`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:29.00`	`kenb`	`swap stayed at 0`
`18:29.02`	`RealUlli`	`YUCK!`
`18:29.12`	`kenb`	`I wasn't impressed.`
`18:29.12`	`RealUlli`	`even after swapon?`
`18:29.21`	`kenb`	`and BTW, it's CF card to do the flash upgrades`
`18:29.22`	`RealUlli`	`i can believe that.`
`18:29.25`	`kenb`	`even after swapon.`
`18:29.33`	`AndyQ`	`kenb were you upgrading from within opie?`
`18:29.39`	`kenb`	`so I used CF and put the 40/24 image on, and upgraded that.`
`18:29.42`	`kenb`	`AndyQ: no`
`18:29.46`	`kenb`	`open was terminated`
`18:29.50`	`kenb`	`opie, rather`
`18:30.12`	`AndyQ`	`hmm - well swap won't get used because its uncompressing files to a temporary directory before replacing the existing ones`
`18:30.14`	`kenb`	`learned the hard way about opie running when I went to upgrade something from unstable :)`
`18:30.47`	`RealUlli`	`AndyQ: hmm... which temp dir?`
`18:30.48`	`AndyQ`	`kenb: you can have opie running BUT you need enough space to upgrade opie-base, libopie and something else (can't remember which one)`
`18:30.50`	`kenb`	`AndyQ: free indicated a whole 502 or 506 bytes - it flipped back and forth.`
`18:30.56`	`*** join/#openzaurus DaJoker (~joker@ip68-10-51-20.rn.hr.cox.net)`
`18:30.56`	`AndyQ`	`do those three seperate first and reboot after`
`18:31.07`	`AndyQ`	`RealUlli: /tmp I think`
`18:31.16`	`kenb`	`that was running memory - not space on the flash`
`18:31.23`	`RealUlli`	`AndyQ: if i link that to a largish cf, it should work, right?`
`18:31.23`	`AndyQ`	`then you can upgrade everything else no probls (as long as nothing else is running`
`18:31.32`	`kenb`	`so it was stuck unzipping with no memory free :(`
`18:31.35`	`AndyQ`	`yup`
`18:31.44`	`AndyQ`	`I can't see why not`
`18:31.56`	`*** join/#openzaurus mrwoody (paolo@91-pool2.ras12.nynyc-t.alerondial.net)`
`18:32.07`	`kenb`	`ipkg + jffs2 sat there chewing 25% cpu each for an hour.. making no progress`
`18:32.12`	`AndyQ`	`kenb : strange - bug in ipkg - it usually knows when its out of space and reports that and abandons the install`
`18:32.46`	`kenb`	`it had file space`
`18:33.09`	`kenb`	`no running memory.`
`18:33.20`	`kenb`	`ie:`
`18:33.21`	`kenb`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:33.22`	`kenb`	`Mem: 2582260 2502868 79392 0 404348 1856812`
`18:33.32`	`kenb`	`free said 502/506 bytes`
`18:33.33`	`AndyQ`	`odd`
`18:33.39`	`kergoth`	`kenb: cached memory is available for use.`
`18:33.47`	`kenb`	`that's off my desktop`
`18:33.49`	`kergoth`	`kenb: you need to add cached to free to get a semi-accurate value`
`18:33.50`	`kergoth`	`ah`
`18:33.53`	`kenb`	`cached was like 120 bytes.`
`18:33.57`	`kenb`	`it was full`
`18:34.10`	`kergoth`	`heh, what did you have running?`
`18:34.14`	`kenb`	`nothing.`
`18:34.19`	`kenb`	`fresh 32/32 install`
`18:34.34`	`kenb`	`booted it, shut down opie, ipkg update/upgraded`
`18:34.47`	`kergoth`	`i've never ran into memory problems on a 5500.`
`18:35.01`	`*** join/#openzaurus asys3 (~uwe@dialin-145-254-167-238.arcor-ip.net)`
`18:35.08`	`kenb`	`I can only report what happened to me`
`18:35.13`	`AndyQ`	`I have - but only when xmms tried to allocate 533 Meg to itsself :)`
`18:35.23`	`kenb`	`Using the 40/24 made that issue go away`
`18:35.26`	`kergoth`	`hah, thats a xmms bug ;)`
`18:35.30`	`AndyQ`	`yup :)`
`18:36.02`	`*** join/#openzaurus badalex (~Georgetta@cpe-66-1-177-91.ut.sprintbbd.net)`
`18:36.26`	`RealUlli`	`s/ince/once/`
`18:37.10`	`AndyQ`	`damn - opie stopped while building opie-console - no matching function call for MyPty::close(int&)`
`18:37.17`	`AndyQ`	`candiates are void MyPty::close()`
`18:37.24`	`AndyQ`	`damn thing!`
`18:37.43`	`kergoth`	`heh, yeah i couldnt build opie-console either`
`18:38.14`	`AndyQ`	`well - no time to fix it now - gym time - I'll sort it later`
`18:38.19`	`AndyQ`	`bfn`
`18:38.28`	`RealUlli`	`AndyQ: have fun!`
`18:38.38`	`AndyQ`	`yeah - thanks!`
`18:40.04`	`asys3`	`kergoth: hi - saw the news on oz.org - do you disassemble the module ?`
`18:40.35`	`*** part/#openzaurus badalex (~Georgetta@cpe-66-1-177-91.ut.sprintbbd.net)`
`18:43.17`	`RealUlli`	`hmm... just read the news, too... would it be a possibility to form a company that contracts to sharp building the kernel or the modules and signs an NDA to get access to the sources?`
`18:43.46`	`RealUlli`	`basically like SPI is a company behind debian?`
`18:44.12`	`kergoth`	`sign an nda with whom?`
`18:44.18`	`kergoth`	`you'd have to sign the nda with sd.org`
`18:44.27`	`kergoth`	`but yes, you could do that`
`18:44.36`	`kergoth`	`brb`
`18:44.39`	`JasonNJ`	`bleh.`
`18:46.13`	`*** join/#openzaurus frankps (~fsilye@10.80-202-169.nextgentel.com)`
`18:46.17`	`frankps`	`hi all`
`18:47.03`	`RealUlli`	`I think, that would be probably like the xanim guy: apparently he signed any number of NDAs to be able to write the drivers for various file formats and provided the drivers as object files for download later...`
`18:56.58`	`kenb`	`what's the cost on getting the NFO from sd.org ?`
`18:57.02`	`kenb`	`$1000 you said ?`
`18:58.23`	`*** join/#openzaurus ljp_work (~ljp@04-156.026.popsite.net)`
`19:00.34`	`RealUlli`	`errm.. what is the real web address of sd.org? www.sd.org leads to the page of a domain reseller, secure-digital doesn't exist, securedigital neither...`
`19:01.42`	`chouimat`	`http://www.sdcard.org/documents.htm`
`19:01.57`	`RealUlli`	`ah.. thanks. :-)`
`19:02.38`	`*** join/#openzaurus nafe_ys (~none@81-86-107-132.dsl.pipex.com)`
`19:04.12`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: it's 1000$/year`
`19:05.21`	`kenb`	`that's not bad`
`19:05.41`	`RealUlli`	`for a company, that's peanuts.`
`19:06.04`	`kenb`	`someone setup a paypal donation compaign on openzaurus.org`
`19:06.13`	`*** join/#openzaurus kergoth (~kergoth@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`19:06.29`	`JasonNJ`	`the president of the SD card association is Ray Creech`
`19:06.42`	`JasonNJ`	`rcreech@sdcard.org`
`19:06.45`	`RealUlli`	`the faq, question 12 is interesting.. according to that, sharp could contract compiling the kernel out to somebody who cares... ;-)`
`19:07.04`	`JasonNJ`	`kergoth, you may want to touch base and explain the situation that we are trying to develop an Open PDA OS and that we are not a corp.`
`19:07.52`	`kergoth`	`JasonNJ: touch base with whom? ray creech?`
`19:07.56`	`JasonNJ`	`they might be willing to release sharp of its NDA obligations. maybe.`
`19:07.58`	`JasonNJ`	`yeah, creech.`
`19:08.46`	`RealUlli`	`another option might be that they donate a license to OZ, free of charge...`
`19:09.04`	`JasonNJ`	`yeah, thats also a possibility.`
`19:09.58`	`JasonNJ`	`I think their anwsers to both questions will be a resoundant NO but I think we have to at least go through the motions of asking.`
`19:11.01`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: you can probably find something better to do than sacrificing`
`19:11.08`	`kergoth`	`JasonNJ: indeed`
`19:11.11`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: yup`
`19:11.48`	`*** join/#openzaurus mewyn (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`19:11.48`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: the problem you must get them below 11 years to be sure they're virgin these days :)`
`19:11.56`	`kergoth`	`aha`
`19:11.57`	`kergoth`	`good point`
`19:13.02`	`RealUlli`	`what was taht about there harry-potter broom-tyos that could vibrate!?? ... :-)`
`19:13.23`	`JasonNJ`	`the nimbus 2000`
`19:14.24`	`RealUlli`	`JasonNJ: yup... some company made a real-world version, for sale in the USA... they had to recall them pretty quickly, i'm told.. ;-)`
`19:14.32`	`icefox`	`haha`
`19:14.52`	`kenb`	`yup`
`19:14.53`	`kergoth`	`lol`
`19:14.53`	`icefox`	`like the pocket fusuoko or whatever it is called. A finger "massager"`
`19:14.57`	`kenb`	`that happened`
`19:15.19`	`kenb`	`the nimbus 2000's from like.. hasbro or something`
`19:16.37`	`*** join/#openzaurus noda (~noda@modemcable136.245-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca)`
`19:16.39`	`noda`	`Moo!`
`19:16.44`	`JasonNJ`	`Real: why did they have to recall them?`
`19:16.53`	`JasonNJ`	`little girls were having too much fun?`
`19:17.06`	`icefox`	`noda: MOoooOo`
`19:17.14`	`JasonNJ`	`hey, the pocket fusuoko rules.`
`19:17.15`	`kergoth`	`hey noda`
`19:17.19`	`RealUlli`	`JasonNJ: apparently, yes...`
`19:17.39`	`icefox`	`need a solar version. That tiny battery just can't last I would imagine`
`19:17.51`	`JasonNJ`	`They should repackage it as "marital jumpstart kit"`
`19:18.28`	`RealUlli`	`icefox: that wouldn't help if they stick it where the sun don't shine... ;-))`
`19:18.31`	`kergoth`	`noda: hehe. having fun?`
`19:18.31`	`*** join/#openzaurus dscordia_ (dscordia@scimitar.rutgers.edu)`
`19:18.46`	`JasonNJ`	`there are times when even the most capable of men require technical assitance.`
`19:19.06`	`noda`	`kergoth: Actually I just started and I'm having errors :P`
`19:19.08`	`kergoth`	`heh, nothing wrong with breaking up the monotony`
`19:19.11`	`kergoth`	`noda: ah`
`19:19.36`	`icefox`	`RealUlli: hehe, true, I guess it needs an adaptor so the solar panel be elsewhere. :-D`
`19:20.07`	`RealUlli`	`icefox: yes. but then you could just use an AC adaptor...`
`19:20.27`	`icefox`	`hmm true, but then you would lose the portability`
`19:20.42`	`icefox`	`haha it woudl be a mad ee 101 project!`
`19:20.47`	`kergoth`	`lol`
`19:20.51`	`JasonNJ`	`hack your fusuoko`
`19:21.10`	`JasonNJ`	`Slashdot: fusuoko microkernal project announced`
`19:23.40`	`JasonNJ`	`its fukuoku`
`19:23.49`	`chouimat`	`ibot slahsdot`
`19:23.50`		`chouimat: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about`
`19:24.00`	`noda`	`Hehehe`
`19:24.07`	`ljp_work`	`hahaha no /. spam`
`19:24.11`	`JasonNJ`	`damn the corporate firewall is denying me access on all the fukuoku links on google`
`19:24.49`	`chouimat`	`fukuoku ????`
`19:25.55`	`JasonNJ`	`hey, you know with a serial interface, you could transform the Zaurus into a serious sex toy.`
`19:25.59`	`chouimat`	`ibot slashdot`
`19:26.13`	`ljp_work`	`ya know.. I would probably be more productive if these channels weren't here at all`
`19:27.04`	`noda`	`Okay, entice looks awesome. Now I gotta make it as smooth as that MacOS taskbar :)`
`19:27.26`	`kergoth`	`ljp_work: aha, me too`
`19:28.35`	`ljp_work`	`:D`
`19:28.43`	`*** join/#openzaurus Dessimat0r (~root@public1-birk1-3-cust60.bagu.broadband.ntl.com)`
`19:28.48`	`Dessimat0r`	`lo all`
`19:28.54`	`Dessimat0r`	`I'm on linux again ;)`
`19:28.58`	`Dessimat0r`	`This time, another distro`
`19:30.37`	`Dessimat0r`	`geep, no icq client`
`19:30.43`	`ljp_work`	`which one?`
`19:30.44`	`noda`	`gaim!`
`19:30.51`	`ljp_work`	`mozilla has one`
`19:30.55`	`noda`	`apt-get install gaim --> then you have an ICQ client :)`
`19:30.56`	`Dessimat0r`	`does it?`
`19:30.57`	`ljp_work`	`err icq`
`19:31.00`	`Dessimat0r`	`lol`
`19:31.03`	`ljp_work`	`nm`
`19:31.19`	`noda`	`mozilla SHOULD have an ICQ client -- write one! :P`
`19:31.24`	`ljp_work`	`I get letters mixed up :)`
`19:31.29`	`ljp_work`	`me?`
`19:31.36`	`noda`	`I dunno :P`
`19:31.39`	`noda`	`Someone :)`
`19:31.40`	`Dessimat0r`	`hrm`
`19:31.45`	`Dessimat0r`	`apt-get needs setting up`
`19:31.46`	`ljp_work`	`I dont wanna write one. YOU write one! :)`
`19:31.57`	`ljp_work`	`dselect`
`19:31.59`	`Dessimat0r`	`needs some sources`
`19:32.00`	`noda`	`I asked you first! :)`
`19:32.02`	`Dessimat0r`	`lol`
`19:32.20`	`Dessimat0r`	`dselect: command not found`
`19:32.31`	`ljp_work`	`apt-get dselect`
`19:32.34`	`Dessimat0r`	`k`
`19:32.35`	`noda`	`Um. dselect is for debian :)`
`19:32.54`	`ljp_work`	`isnt he on debian I presume?`
`19:32.56`	`Dessimat0r`	`lol`
`19:33.02`	`Dessimat0r`	`no`
`19:33.09`	`ljp_work`	`which one?`
`19:33.23`	`ljp_work`	`Lindows!`
`19:33.26`	`Dessimat0r`	`I have forgotten its name :(`
`19:33.28`	`noda`	`lol`
`19:33.29`	`Dessimat0r`	`rofl`
`19:33.36`	`Dessimat0r`	`Yoper`
`19:33.47`	`Dessimat0r`	`its nice :D`
`19:34.03`	`Dessimat0r`	`But it has this fucking horrible Y icon on everything`
`19:34.30`	`ljp_work`	`Yoper?`
`19:34.31`	`Dessimat0r`	`Need to get rid of it`
`19:34.31`	`Dessimat0r`	`lol`
`19:34.34`	`Dessimat0r`	`yup`
`19:34.34`	`ljp_work`	`never heard of it`
`19:34.38`	`Dessimat0r`	`its new ;)`
`19:34.40`	`ljp_work`	`rpm?`
`19:34.44`	`Dessimat0r`	`Only been out for less than a month`
`19:34.49`	`Dessimat0r`	`yup, has it`
`19:35.09`	`Dessimat0r`	`been out for less than a month, and already its better than Mandrake`
`19:35.16`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: try to find the Art of Assembly in pdf`
`19:35.26`	`Dessimat0r`	`http://www.yoper.com/`
`19:37.06`	`Dessimat0r`	`hmm`
`19:37.14`	`Dessimat0r`	`whats the irc client that people normally use?`
`19:37.17`	`Dessimat0r`	`gaim?`
`19:37.19`	`Dessimat0r`	`*icq`
`19:37.22`	`Dessimat0r`	`sorry ;)`
`19:37.32`	`Cloudchaser`	`i use gnome icu`
`19:38.19`	`Dessimat0r`	`i need one that suits KDE ;)`
`19:39.07`	`ljp_work`	`for irc I switch between xchat, kvirc, ksirc and the moz one`
`19:40.21`	`Dessimat0r`	`Licq`
`19:40.33`	`noda`	`Dessimat0r: kopete`
`19:41.08`	`Dessimat0r`	`lol`
`19:41.25`	`Dessimat0r`	`woot!!!`
`19:41.27`	`Dessimat0r`	`nice nice nice`
`19:41.29`	`Dessimat0r`	`getting`
`19:41.30`	`Dessimat0r`	`;)`
`19:41.50`	`*** join/#openzaurus Bala (~ryanr@hsdbsk142-165-143-201.sasknet.sk.ca)`
`19:42.11`	`noda`	`Awww, MAN! e_setup is such a sweet-looking app, but it doesn't do anything :P`
`19:42.18`	`noda`	`It just looks cool :P`
`19:42.20`	`noda`	`So cool :P`
`19:43.14`	`*** join/#openzaurus Walid (~wshaari@pc-80-193-194-7-hr.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`19:45.39`	`RealUlli`	`oh, it does something: it crashed noda's irc client... ;-)`
`19:46.44`	`Dessimat0r`	`heh`
`19:46.56`	`Dessimat0r`	`i am compiling kpete`
`19:47.38`	`Dessimat0r`	`takes ages, and the piss`
`19:47.39`	`Dessimat0r`	`rofl`
`19:48.40`	`JasonNJ`	`looks like Jon Johnansen isnt out of the woods yet.`
`19:49.16`	`RealUlli`	`shit :-(`
`19:49.21`	`Dessimat0r`	`?`
`19:50.06`	`RealUlli`	`the norwegian government really are just U.S. bootlickers...`
`19:50.17`	`RealUlli`	`:-(`
`19:50.48`	`Dessimat0r`	`bloody hell, i have an Athlon XP 2200+@ 149 fsb, why does it take so long?`
`19:51.03`	`RealUlli`	`the real pirates will just duplicate the whole DVD, anyway, without ever decodign anything...`
`19:51.05`	`Dessimat0r`	`lol`
`19:51.52`	`RealUlli`	`Dessimat0r: you shoult install more that 16 MB of ram... ;-)`
`19:51.59`	`Dessimat0r`	`I have 512mb! ;)`
`19:52.01`	`RealUlli`	`-t+d. ;-)`
`19:52.21`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: they want to pass a DMCA here in canada and someone tell them why not banning photocopy machine too`
`19:52.22`	`Dessimat0r`	`of DDR2100`
`19:52.24`	`Dessimat0r`	`hehe`
`19:52.26`	`ljp_work`	`oh! there's a linux admin job in my town.. :) cool`
`19:52.42`	`chouimat`	`fuck! snow!`
`19:52.52`	`RealUlli`	`chouimat: send it here!`
`19:53.02`	`RealUlli`	`ljp: have fun! ;-)`
`19:53.04`	`Dessimat0r`	`Hiring : Linux admin \| Cost : Price of Windows NT`
`19:53.08`	`Dessimat0r`	`;)`
`19:53.31`	`Dessimat0r`	`oops, cost should be SWage:`
`19:53.32`	`Dessimat0r`	`hehe ;)`
`19:53.34`	`ljp_work`	`ya, we need snow here also`
`19:53.42`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: the snow?`
`19:53.51`	`ljp_work`	`ya, and linux admin jobs, too`
`19:53.56`	`chouimat`	`it's just stopped`
`19:53.57`	`RealUlli`	`chouimat: yup.`
`19:54.23`	`Dessimat0r`	`hrm, the desktop bar at the top of KDE is more trouble than it's worth`
`19:54.35`	`Dessimat0r`	`window headers get hidden behind it`
`19:55.29`	`RealUlli`	`chouimat: nope.`
`19:55.40`	`RealUlli`	`ljp: where du you live/`
`19:55.42`	`RealUlli`	`?`
`19:55.47`	`ljp_work`	`colorado`
`19:56.00`	`ljp_work`	`in the flats north of denver`
`19:56.00`	`Dessimat0r`	`wish it would hurry up, Enterprise is on now :(`
`19:56.16`	`RealUlli`	`ljp: hmm... you should be able to get snow... in some parts anyway.. ;-)`
`19:56.27`	`ljp_work`	`mountains are doing ok.`
`19:56.36`	`ljp_work`	`nothing here for months`
`19:56.41`	`RealUlli`	`Dessimat0r: go watch enterprise, check if it's finished afterwards...`
`19:56.56`	`Dessimat0r`	`heh`
`19:57.02`	`Dessimat0r`	`I'll come up during the break ;)`
`19:57.11`	`RealUlli`	`Dessimat0r: Cu ;-)`
`19:57.29`	`Dessimat0r`	`when you compile something, does it go into its default install location?`
`19:57.48`	`Dessimat0r`	`or stay where the source is`
`19:58.03`	`RealUlli`	`ljp: well.. i live in munich, germany... we should have at least a little bit of snow... 20 cm or so... this years total is 10, most of it has aready melted again... :-(`
`19:58.19`	`ljp_work`	`I thought germany had too much rain`
`19:58.32`	`*** join/#openzaurus Dilb (~internet@pD9E8E9BC.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:59.02`	`RealUlli`	`ljp: yup... its too warm... what's coming down as rain is supposed to come down as snow, at least at this time of the year...`
`19:59.33`	`JasonNJ`	`lol, Russia is getting the source code to Windows.`
`19:59.35`	`JasonNJ`	`http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20030120/tc_nm/russia_microsoft_dc`
`19:59.46`	`RealUlli`	`JasonNJ: LOL`
`19:59.47`	`ljp_work`	`we havent had any rain either`
`20:00.04`	`RealUlli`	`ljp: i suppose we could send you some.. ;-)`
`20:00.57`	`ljp_work`	`ha! how soon is MS code going to be on Russian warez sites?`
`20:01.16`	`JasonNJ`	`and in related news`
`20:01.18`	`JasonNJ`	`http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=573&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20030120/od_nm/odd_nude_flight_dc`
`20:01.37`	`Dilb`	`hi`
`20:01.39`	`*** join/#openzaurus bbeattie (~bbeattie@cpe-66-1-180-69.ut.sprintbbd.net)`
`20:02.49`	`RealUlli`	`JasonNJ: nice marketing gag... at least nobody will be able to hide weapons... ;-)`
`20:03.03`	`*** join/#openzaurus mewyn (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`20:03.10`	`JasonNJ`	`real: lol, at the rate things are going nude flights are gonna be MANDATORY`
`20:03.21`	`RealUlli`	`ljp: i was just thinking.. and who will crack the russian computer? ;-)`
`20:03.34`	`*** join/#openzaurus gilligan (~gilligan@pD953A373.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`20:04.29`	`mrwoody`	`did ms changed the sources before releasing them?`
`20:04.45`	`treke`	`JasonNJ: remind me to stop flying`
`20:05.17`	`RealUlli`	`JasonNJ: that whole nude thing is overrated, IMHO... i once spent 2 weeks at a nudist camping ground, with friends... the best part was when one of the got a sunburn on his private parts... his girlfriend was not amused... ;-)`
`20:05.36`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: hehe ....`
`20:05.37`	`RealUlli`	`mrwoody: i wonder if russia tries to compile the stuff first... ;-)`
`20:06.12`	`mrwoody`	`RealUlli: did they also give it to china?`
`20:06.26`	`RealUlli`	`mrwoody: no idea... afaik not yet`
`20:06.47`	`mrwoody`	`RealUlli: maybe it is a new plan to attack china before it gets too strong...`
`20:07.05`	`JasonNJ`	`Real: it is VERY overrated. When I went on vacation to St. Martin last year, we went to Orient Beach, which is the biggest nude beach there. After seening the TYPE of nude people on that beach, we packed up and left!`
`20:07.13`	`JasonNJ`	`some people should NOT go nude, myself included`
`20:07.15`	`JasonNJ`	`lol`
`20:07.32`	`mrwoody`	`and anyway i believe that once china gets that, the day after they will be on the net`
`20:07.35`	`ljp_work`	`ya, they shoudl try to compile it to see if it really IS the code :)`
`20:07.40`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: exactly my ex-wife was all the time naked in the appartment.... the first weeks it's fun but after a while you get bored`
`20:07.47`	`RealUlli`	`mrwoody: i think this works backwards... if china has the source.. they have enough eyes to find all holes... and attack the west...`
`20:07.48`	`*** join/#openzaurus mewyn (~mike@dsl081-228-057.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`20:07.54`	`Cloudchaser`	`haha i heard about that plane ride thing on the radio yesterday`
`20:07.58`	`JasonNJ`	`ljp: lol, they probably gave them a copy of Redhat`
`20:08.04`	`ljp_work`	`hehe`
`20:08.30`	`ljp_work`	`changes all the strings of Red Hat to Microsoft Windows`
`20:08.59`	`RealUlli`	`chouimat: on a nude beach/campground, it gets boring after about 10 seconds...`
`20:09.26`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: me too, my imagination have nothing todo :P`
`20:09.30`	`RealUlli`	`JasonNJ: g that depends on who you ask... ;-)`
`20:09.31`	`ljp_work`	`unless there's lesbians going off there`
`20:10.07`	`JasonNJ`	`ljp: try 50 and 60 year old scraggly and overweight French people that are totally sun wrinkled`
`20:10.07`	`RealUlli`	`ljp: nothing new there either... unfortunately they were too young...`
`20:11.19`	`JasonNJ`	`The only nude beach I hear is decent is the one in Monte Carlo`
`20:11.23`	`RealUlli`	`ljp: i estimated the oldest at about 13-14...`
`20:11.26`	`JasonNJ`	`where all the movie stars go.`
`20:12.18`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: last summer one of my friend went to a lesbian camping with his girlfriend and his sister and her girlfriend ... he told me that was a very very hard week, too much rain and the 3 girls were pms :)`
`20:12.37`	`ljp_work`	`hehehe`
`20:12.53`	`RealUlli`	`JasonNJ: well... there are others... the one i went to was not too bad... there were some definitely interesting girls... but if youre not allowed and they don't care if you look... well. %-\`
`20:12.56`	`ljp_work`	`did he get committed to an insane asylum after that?`
`20:13.06`	`chouimat`	`ljp_work: no`
`20:13.19`	`ljp_work`	`shoud have`
`20:13.23`	`ljp_work`	`:D`
`20:14.30`	`JasonNJ`	`this channel is way too oversexed`
`20:14.58`	`JasonNJ`	`OpenZaurus: We do it with our hands.`
`20:15.19`	`RealUlli`	`JasonNJ: no. we didn't discuss the nutritional value of sperm yet... ;-)`
`20:15.23`	`RealUlli`	`LOL`
`20:16.02`	`JasonNJ`	`Real: not something I really need to know`
`20:16.37`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: I can send you on one site that discust of that :)`
`20:17.20`	`RealUlli`	`JasonNJ: you dont.. but apparently some girl asked that on usenet some time ago... the first answer was: people having to worry about the nutritional value of sperm are having definitely too much fun! ;-)`
`20:18.19`	`RealUlli`	`chouimat: no need... i know a nurse who can find out.. if she doesn't know already.. ;-)`
`20:18.34`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: when I visited Mcgills, a chemistry teacher told us that the sperm was the human secretion that had the most sugar in it, and a very nice girl asked why it tasted so salty them?`
`20:18.40`	`chouimat`	`s/them/then`
`20:19.08`	`prpplague`	`chouimat: ha`
`20:19.17`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: i don't why but the teacher asked her name :)`
`20:19.30`	`prpplague`	`chouimat: double ha`
`20:20.34`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: go to an universtity sexology website and go to the section where people ask question ... that so funny sometime`
`20:20.45`	`mrwoody`	`chouimat: what was the answer?`
`20:20.49`	`JasonNJ`	`Real: the only person who would need to know that peice of trivia would be a bukkake movie actress.`
`20:20.53`	`chouimat`	`mrwoody: hehe`
`20:22.05`	`RealUlli`	`optimized for nutritional value: carbohydrates, protein and minerals... probably tastes a bit more salty than those isotonic thirst quenchers...`
`20:22.10`	`JasonNJ`	`you know we are not supposed to have these conversations until friday`
`20:22.14`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: i think it's 12 calory per ml`
`20:23.17`	`RealUlli`	`chouimat: i don't know how much that is in reation to other food stuffs...`
`20:23.57`	`JasonNJ`	`I hope they dont ask me this question on the Golden Penguin Bowl.`
`20:24.07`	`RealUlli`	`chouimat: googles answer: http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/1585.html`
`20:24.33`	`RealUlli`	`JasonNJ: just answer 42. ;-0`
`20:24.36`	`chouimat`	`http://www.google.com/search?q=nutritional%20value%20sperm&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8`
`20:25.17`	`JasonNJ`	`Can swallowing semen enrich a poor diet? Unless you're gulping gallons of it each day, it's no substitute for real nutritious cuisine.`
`20:25.23`	`JasonNJ`	`lol`
`20:26.15`	`*** join/#openzaurus xtrem88 (~user@wv-morgantown10aa-73.mgtnwv.adelphia.net)`
`20:26.24`	`RealUlli`	`as i said. people that have to worry about the nutritional value of sperm are having definitley too much fun!`
`20:26.33`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: yup`
`20:27.17`	`xtrem88`	`hey all, anyone syncing with a mac running debian?`
`20:31.37`	`xtrem88`	`hmm. saw the trolltech stuff, but wasn't sure if it would run on ppc.`
`20:32.24`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2120.html :)`
`20:33.00`	`*** join/#openzaurus hamsta (~jens@p509270D1.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`20:33.15`	`hamsta`	`hi again...`
`20:33.28`	`RealUlli`	`hi hamsta`
`20:34.37`	`chouimat`	`RealUlli: exactly`
`20:37.51`	`*** part/#openzaurus xtrem88 (~user@wv-morgantown10aa-73.mgtnwv.adelphia.net)`
`20:41.58`	`JasonNJ`	`xtreme: pick a less esoteric computer platform for god sakes!`
`20:42.00`	`JasonNJ`	`lol`
`20:42.13`	`chouimat`	`http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/announce/jan_03.html`
`20:42.18`	`JasonNJ`	`debian on power mac... good lord`
`20:42.40`	`chouimat`	`JasonNJ:`
`20:43.00`	`chouimat`	`JasonNJ: I want a powermac ... but for macosx`
`20:43.11`	`JasonNJ`	`they have macosx drivers`
`20:43.15`	`JasonNJ`	`in alpha`
`20:43.43`	`JasonNJ`	`I'm probably buying a 17 inch powerbook next month`
`20:43.47`	`JasonNJ`	`for Mac OS X`
`20:43.59`	`chouimat`	`JasonNJ: I will be paying my taxes`
`20:52.51`	`*** join/#openzaurus hobbs (~andrew@port-58-62-tnt03.avoca.nni.com)`
`20:54.17`	`*** join/#openzaurus scanline (~micah@aden2-142-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU)`
`20:54.39`	`hardwire`	`scanline: augh`
`20:54.47`	`hardwire`	`micah is just the coolest name`
`20:54.51`	`hardwire`	`except for one thing`
`20:54.58`	`hardwire`	`every time I see it.. I start doing that name game song`
`20:55.35`	`scanline`	`haha`
`20:55.44`	`scanline`	`micah isn't that great...`
`20:56.41`	`hardwire`	`I think its a neat name`
`20:56.43`	`hardwire`	`micah`
`20:56.45`	`hardwire`	`take my name`
`20:56.45`	`hardwire`	`Shane`
`20:56.51`	`hardwire`	`Shane!`
`20:56.57`	`hardwire`	`it is a wacko name`
`20:57.12`	`hardwire`	`aren`
`20:57.13`	`hardwire`	`err`
`20:57.14`	`hardwire`	`damnt`
`20:57.19`	`hardwire`	`I keep getting stabbed and taped`
`20:59.18`	`scanline`	`Shane isn't that bad`
`20:59.30`	`gilligan`	`hm,anyone happens to know a channel where cups devers hang out ? having some probs with it..`
`21:00.22`	`scanline`	`#secret-cups-developer-hideout`
`21:00.52`	`hobbs`	`hey! there's nobody there!`
`21:01.17`	`hardwire`	`scanline: its just odd`
`21:01.19`	`hardwire`	`I like the name`
`21:01.34`	`hardwire`	`my only problem is the relation to the cowboy person`
`21:01.48`	`gilligan`	`scanline: hehe`
`21:03.32`	`mewyn`	`neeeeed more rum`
`21:03.52`	`mewyn`	`whardier: buy me more rum :)`
`21:05.13`	`hardwire`	`whardier!`
`21:08.11`	`Twiun`	`hi guys`
`21:10.45`	`*** part/#openzaurus gilligan (~gilligan@pD953A373.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`21:13.19`	`*** join/#openzaurus TheMasterMind1 (foobar@h-69-3-84-231.MCLNVA23.covad.net)`
`21:13.43`	`Twiun`	`hey TMM`
`21:14.06`	`Cloudchaser`	`hi Twiun`
`21:14.30`	`hamsta`	`laters`
`21:15.13`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hey Twiun`
`21:18.33`	`*** join/#openzaurus TeaX (~tx@ppp-228-172.27-151.libero.it)`
`21:24.30`	`*** join/#openzaurus james_lan (~james@156.26.48.44)`
`21:26.38`	`RealUlli`	`hardwire: you should set that typo as your secondary nick... sounds nice and is probably unoccupied... ;-)`
`21:28.35`	`hardwire`	`whardier?`
`21:29.00`	`hardwire`	`I already go by that :)`
`21:31.36`	`*** join/#openzaurus ljp_work (~ljp@01-190.026.popsite.net)`
`21:34.16`	`mewyn`	`that's what i originally know him by, so i usually call him that`
`21:34.21`	`mewyn`	`or geek xXx`
`21:34.44`	`hardwire`	`:)`
`21:34.52`	`hardwire`	`tux_mike?`
`21:34.59`	`mewyn`	`yah`
`21:35.04`	`hardwire`	`ok`
`21:35.11`	`hardwire`	`I am no longer xXx`
`21:35.14`	`hardwire`	`all oOo now`
`21:35.20`	`mewyn`	`oOo?`
`21:35.26`	`hardwire`	`Hugs vs Kisses`
`21:35.36`	`mewyn`	`that sounds much less menacing`
`21:35.39`	`hardwire`	`heh`
`21:35.47`	`hardwire`	`Triple Kiss vs Triple hug`
`21:36.21`	`hardwire`	`anybody here compiled a kernel for the H3600`
`21:36.35`	`mewyn`	`http://www.toshiba.com/tacp/tv/current/57HLX82.html`
`21:36.36`	`ljp_work`	`why not professional radio?`
`21:36.43`	`hardwire`	`ljp_work: because`
`21:36.57`	`*** join/#openzaurus noda (~noda@modemcable136.245-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca)`
`21:37.00`	`noda`	`Moo!`
`21:37.04`	`ljp_work`	`isnt professional better than being an ameteur?`
`21:37.27`	`hardwire`	`ljp_work: heh.. sshhhhh`
`21:38.06`	`ljp_work`	`oh thats spelled amateur`
`21:38.30`	`ljp_work`	`it might look beeter to compile professional radio support`
`21:38.37`	`ljp_work`	`better, not beeter`
`21:38.42`	`*** join/#openzaurus caffeinex36 (caffeine@198.138.254.54)`
`21:38.54`	`noda`	`lol`
`21:39.35`	`hardwire`	`ametueraef`
`21:40.32`	`ljp_work`	`amitoor`
`21:40.42`	`ljp_work`	`amichoor`
`21:41.05`	`ljp_work`	`i are a professional`
`21:43.00`	`ljp_work`	`hardiew: how's it up 'der in the great white north?`
`21:43.15`	`ljp_work`	`I mean hardwire`
`21:43.25`	`hardwire`	`neat`
`21:43.29`	`hardwire`	`keen`
`21:43.30`	`hardwire`	`spiff`
`21:43.40`	`*** join/#openzaurus AndyQ (AndyQ_w@pc-80-194-121-147-hy.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`21:43.42`	`AndyQ`	`hey`
`21:43.42`	`hardwire`	`those are all the same pixel size across in this font`
`21:44.54`	`hardwire`	`scanline: so do I.. usually`
`21:44.58`	`ljp_work`	`I prefer big spliffs`
`21:45.03`	`ljp_work`	`ooohh`
`21:45.05`	`AndyQ`	`ljp_work: lol`
`21:45.05`	`ljp_work`	`spiff`
`21:45.25`	`AndyQ`	`ljp_work: before you partake of a big spliff - you aware that opie-konsole don't build?`
`21:45.30`	`hardwire`	`I needed a big'ish font for xchat`
`21:45.38`	`hardwire`	`all the big fixed width ones were obnoxious`
`21:45.38`	`*** join/#openzaurus TimRiker (timr@rikers.org)`
`21:45.45`	`ljp_work`	`I havent touched konsole for months`
`21:45.58`	`AndyQ`	`heh - someone has`
`21:46.38`	`ljp_work`	`bbaif`
`21:46.39`	`scanline`	`hardwire: X fonts are obnoxious in general, but I find the Schumacher Clean fonts decent`
`21:46.52`	`*** join/#openzaurus dscordia_ (~dscordia@pool-141-150-85-220.mad.east.verizon.net)`
`21:47.00`	`hardwire`	`danke`
`21:47.07`	`hardwire`	`kergoth: you get asked this a lot probably`
`21:47.14`	`hardwire`	`usefullness of 2.4.19 on the Z?`
`21:47.53`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hardwire: look at the oz news page`
`21:48.01`	`TheMasterMind1`	`all the things that .19 can do that .6 can't`
`21:49.45`	`Dess\|Enterprise`	`i am building licq, lol`
`21:49.55`	`Dessimat0r`	`the other one was crap`
`21:53.01`	`RealUlli`	`hmm.. is there a port of perl to OZ?`
`21:54.01`	`RealUlli`	`..not like file (the ipk from zauruszone.com) which needs some symlinks...`
`21:55.59`	`mickeyl`	`RealUlli: no. we have php and python, but noone wanted to add perl to OZ yet. kergoth said its bitchy to crosscompile, maybe this is why.`
`21:56.36`	`noda`	`Yes, it's apparently a nightmare.`
`21:56.47`	`RealUlli`	`ah, i c ..`
`21:57.00`	`noda`	`If you want to do it yourself, go right ahead :)`
`21:57.34`	`RealUlli`	`hm. ;-)`
`21:57.56`	`mickeyl`	`yeah, would be a pretty good experience to dive into OZ :-D`
`21:58.17`	`RealUlli`	`argh/`
`21:58.18`	`AndyQ`	`crosscompiling itself is pretty easy`
`21:58.25`	`Twiun`	`that's like saying jumping into the middle of the pacific is a good way to learn to swim :)`
`21:58.43`	`AndyQ`	`hehe - well, you find out damn quick if you can do it :)`
`21:58.50`	`caek`	`drinking is bad`
`21:58.57`	`Twiun`	`yeah... it's like a can/can't kind of test`
`21:59.01`	`caek`	`DON'T DO DRUGS JUST SAY NO`
`21:59.08`	`AndyQ`	`caek: you don't know what your talking about :)`
`21:59.38`	`Twiun`	`RealUlli: no idea... but bootstrapping gcc nowdays is not too bad`
`21:59.51`	`Twiun`	`RealUlli: definately easier than compiling Kaffe`
`21:59.57`	`caek`	`d;P`
`22:00.01`	`Twiun`	`(under ANY platform)`
`22:00.11`	`mickeyl`	`actually, most of the autoconf stuff is pretty nice when it comes to crosscompiling`
`22:00.14`	`RealUlli`	`Twiun: well i was told it was non-trivial.. bt it was fairly straight-forward...`
`22:01.07`	`RealUlli`	`shortly afterwards i was introduced to hand-patching the linux kernel.. (ftape patches...;-))`
`22:01.50`	`RealUlli`	`btw... i've got usbdnet on a 2.4.20... wasn't too difficult..`
`22:02.04`	`Twiun`	`mickeyl: if only Kaffe used the auto* and libtool stuff in some kind of logical way`
`22:02.15`	`AndyQ`	`ping kergoth`
`22:02.46`	`mickeyl`	`Twiun: yeah, m4 is like magic and i really say hats off to those who master this weird stuff`
`22:02.55`	`noda`	`m4 is so COOL though :)`
`22:03.13`	`mickeyl`	`Twiun: but most programmers are only average, hehe`
`22:03.18`	`AndyQ`	`anyone know what openpty is?`
`22:03.31`	`mickeyl`	`yeah, kind of a standard to access terminal devices`
`22:03.32`	`Twiun`	`mickeyl: right, or only expert in very small areas`
`22:03.35`	`RealUlli`	`m4 is cool.. especially if you have to prepare a sednmail.cf for a completely different architecture...`
`22:03.43`	`noda`	`Problem is, people who have learned to code C and C++ find it a pain to learn m4 and all the auto* macros, so they just... don't :P`
`22:03.51`	`AndyQ`	`OK next question, why does opie-konsole include it by default?`
`22:03.58`	`AndyQ`	`s/include/use`
`22:04.03`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: hmm... because it needs it`
`22:04.04`	`AndyQ`	`is it available on the Z?`
`22:04.05`	`noda`	`AndyQ: Nobody answered the first question yet :P`
`22:04.05`	`Twiun`	`mickeyl: I'm quickly becoming an expert in java VM internals.... nasty stuff`
`22:04.14`	`RealUlli`	`like.. preparing a sendmail.cf on a solaris system for a SCO Openserver 8... ;-)`
`22:04.16`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: sure, afaik its built in the kernel`
`22:04.16`	`scanline`	`VMs are fun`
`22:04.18`	`AndyQ`	`noda: mickeyl did`
`22:04.29`	`noda`	`Oh, cool, didn't see that ;)`
`22:04.33`	`AndyQ`	`ahh - so why don't it build on my machine when it did before?`
`22:04.37`	`Twiun`	`scanline: java ones are just yucky :)`
`22:04.49`	`scanline`	`I've looked at waba.. it was very 'interesting'`
`22:04.55`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: hmm... where does it crash?`
`22:04.56`	`AndyQ`	`and disabling it in the .pro file allows it to compile fine?`
`22:05.05`	`Twiun`	`scanline: in which way?`
`22:05.14`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: it doesn't crash - just doesn't build (coz I guess I don' t have the arm libs)`
`22:05.24`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: it fails while building MyPty.cpp`
`22:05.32`	`scanline`	`Twiun: one very big source file, hard to read, lots of macros`
`22:05.36`	`RealUlli`	`scanline: now you know why "may you live in interesting times" is considered a curse by some people... ;-)))`
`22:05.42`	`Twiun`	`scanline: SCREAMS`
`22:05.44`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: ah i think i now what's the error... do you want to change one line and try again?`
`22:05.49`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: commenting out -DHAVE_OPENPTY in the .pro file makes it build fine`
`22:05.51`	`mickeyl`	`s/now/know`
`22:05.52`	`Twiun`	`scanline: glad I didn't dive into that one`
`22:05.53`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: suure`
`22:06.01`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: which line?`
`22:06.09`	`scanline`	`Twiun: it's still not that big... only 5000 lines or so if I remember correctly. but in one source file!`
`22:06.18`	`Twiun`	`scanline: wonka's actually not too bad - wish they had more docs, but the code's easy to follow`
`22:06.27`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: ok, in the line where it chokes on "close bla bla", make that ::close, not close`
`22:06.34`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: I had two errors - one one a close (cos it didn't have a ::)`
`22:06.35`	`AndyQ`	`heh`
`22:06.41`	`scanline`	`Twiun: that's good`
`22:06.52`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ. aha , so this one you found. what's the next?`
`22:07.00`	`Twiun`	`scanline: my headache right now is that the good work in Wonka isn't in the gui code`
`22:07.02`	`AndyQ`	`and the other 3 lines above on the openpty call`
`22:07.07`	`AndyQ`	`didn't like that`
`22:07.11`	`mickeyl`	`ok, hold on...`
`22:07.15`	`Twiun`	`scanline: the VM is sound, but it shows that they worked on non-gui stuff first`
`22:07.22`	`mickeyl`	`Andy: what's the error message on this line?`
`22:07.25`	`Twiun`	`scanline: needs plenty of polishing`
`22:07.27`	`scanline`	`Twiun: well, the VM is a lot more important than the GUI :)`
`22:07.34`	`Twiun`	`scanline: exactly`
`22:07.41`	`AndyQ`	`hang on - need to make clean reenable -DHAVE_OPENPTY and rebuild.....`
`22:08.03`	`Twiun`	`scanline: but I can't help feeling a bit pissed at having to tweak/reimplement chunks of the java.awt.* stuff`
`22:08.13`	`Twiun`	`scanline: this package is supposed to be 100% java`
`22:08.24`	`Twiun`	`scanline: and they've got native code sprinkled in there`
`22:08.26`	`JasonNJ`	`Twiun: you working on wonka or kaffee now?`
`22:08.33`	`Twiun`	`JasonNJ: purely Kaffe`
`22:08.35`	`Twiun`	`doh`
`22:08.36`	`Twiun`	`Wonka even`
`22:08.43`	`Twiun`	`I'm tired - easy to confuse`
`22:08.44`	`AndyQ`	`lol`
`22:09.01`	`Twiun`	`JasonNJ: jserv said he'll get back round to kaffe someday`
`22:09.06`	`JasonNJ`	`anything newe in wonkaland?`
`22:09.32`	`*** join/#openzaurus ljp_work (~ljp@04-130.026.popsite.net)`
`22:09.36`	`Twiun`	`not done a great deal of work over the past week, mainly documenting things`
`22:10.07`	`Twiun`	`JasonNJ: on the up side, there should be a JIT available for Wonka in the near future (from the acunia guys)`
`22:10.18`	`Twiun`	`JasonNJ: but I've said this before :)`
`22:11.23`	`*** join/#openzaurus FrenkYo (~0_o@host174-146.pool80182.interbusiness.it)`
`22:12.01`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: OK, the error is:`
`22:12.02`	`AndyQ`	MyPty.cpp: In method `int MyPty::openPty()':
`22:12.02`	`AndyQ`	MyPty.cpp:211: `ttynam' undeclared (first use this function)
`22:12.02`	`AndyQ`	`MyPty.cpp:211: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once`
`22:12.02`	`AndyQ`	`MyPty.cpp:211: for each function it appears in.)`
`22:12.10`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: make that m_ttynam`
`22:12.27`	`mickeyl`	`and try again please`
`22:12.41`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: hah - you star!`
`22:12.48`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: do you want me to commit that?`
`22:12.53`	`Harlekin`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:12.59`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: yes, seems alright. do it`
`22:13.00`	`Harlekin`	`mickeyl: that wont help .-)`
`22:13.12`	`AndyQ`	`why not?`
`22:13.24`	`Harlekin`	`maybe compile, but not run`
`22:13.29`	`AndyQ`	`?`
`22:13.29`	`mickeyl`	`Harlekin: well, at least it compiles hehe... that's more than before :)`
`22:14.17`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: still commit?`
`22:14.24`	`mickeyl`	`Harlekin?`
`22:14.49`	`mickeyl`	`I'd say its better if it compiles, but lets Harlekin decide.`
`22:14.49`	`Harlekin`	`mickeyl: ?`
`22:14.54`	`ljp_work`	`is that opie-console?`
`22:14.59`	`AndyQ`	`ljp_work: yup`
`22:15.01`	`Harlekin`	`commit it if it runs!!!!`
`22:15.05`	`Harlekin`	`and runs on ipaqs too`
`22:15.06`	`ljp_work`	`ahh.`
`22:15.12`	`Twiun`	`JasonNJ: you know, I was playing with the idea this weekend of reusing some of the GNU Classpath stuff with wonka...`
`22:15.27`	`JasonNJ`	`hmmm`
`22:15.35`	`Twiun`	`bad idea`
`22:15.37`	`ljp_work`	`yep. running would be good. :)`
`22:15.39`	`Twiun`	`bad, bad idea`
`22:15.46`	`Twiun`	`let me stress this...`
`22:15.50`	`AndyQ`	`Harlekin: no way of seeing if it runs on ipaqs`
`22:15.52`	`Bala`	`bad? :)`
`22:16.01`	`Harlekin`	`AndyQ: does it run on zaurus compiled ?`
`22:16.14`	`AndyQ`	`not a clue :) - still comipling.....`
`22:16.18`	`Harlekin`	`and that close handling is broken like it is there`
`22:16.22`	`AndyQ`	`I'll try it in a moment....`
`22:16.34`	`Twiun`	`JasonNJ: the classpath stuff seems to straddle Java 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4`
`22:16.48`	`Dessimat0r`	`hmm`
`22:16.50`	`Twiun`	`JasonNJ: so unless we were to take the plunge and use ALL their code, we can't use any`
`22:16.52`	`JasonNJ`	`I think we need to move squarely into the Java2 direction`
`22:16.54`	`Dessimat0r`	`I can't get OpenOffice to work`
`22:16.56`	`Dessimat0r`	`it laods up`
`22:16.58`	`Dessimat0r`	`then bunks out`
`22:17.06`	`Dessimat0r`	`laods = loads`
`22:17.20`	`Twiun`	`JasonNJ: I agree - but perhaps after we have a working QtE integration?`
`22:17.41`	`JasonNJ`	`I am of the opinion at this point OZ should be breaking ground not maintaining shitty standards that were set arbitrarily`
`22:17.41`	`Bala`	`Dessimat0r: on your Z ?`
`22:17.47`	`JasonNJ`	`but thats my opinion :)`
`22:17.51`	`JasonNJ`	`kergoth is still the boss.`
`22:17.51`	`Dessimat0r`	`of course not, lol`
`22:17.52`	`JasonNJ`	`:)`
`22:18.05`	`noda`	`Yeah, at this point it's really holding us back :)`
`22:18.08`	`Dessimat0r`	`on this Linux distro`
`22:18.24`	`Twiun`	`lol`
`22:18.25`	`AndyQ`	`Well, it doesn't actually build`
`22:18.31`	`Bala`	`Dessimat0r: whew.. had me scared... all my work on poqetp would have been for naught`
`22:18.37`	`Dessimat0r`	`lol`
`22:18.37`	`*** join/#openzaurus mrwoody (paolo@144-pool2.ras12.nynyc-t.alerondial.net)`
`22:18.52`	`AndyQ`	`tons of error messages (like fucking hundreds!) on link!`
`22:19.01`	`Twiun`	`JasonNJ: to be honest, I also want Java2 for wonka... as far as I can tell, this would be easier to bring in as a second phase though`
`22:19.06`	`Dessimat0r`	`poquet presenter is good, btw ;) Although I don't have a use for it yet`
`22:19.07`	`Dessimat0r`	`hehe`
`22:19.15`	`Dessimat0r`	`it looks nice`
`22:19.28`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: can you post the first five lines, please?`
`22:19.33`	`Bala`	`thanks.. its still far from where i want it to be... and the code is horrible, horrible stuff`
`22:19.44`	`AndyQ`	`yup here goes..`
`22:19.44`	`AndyQ`	io_serial.o: In function `QArray<char> type_info function':
`22:19.44`	`AndyQ`	io_serial.o(.text+0x162c): undefined reference to `QGArray type_info function'
`22:19.44`	`AndyQ`	io_serial.o(.text+0x1650): undefined reference to `QGArray type_info node'
`22:19.44`	`AndyQ`	filetransfer.o: In function `QArray<char> type_info function':
`22:19.45`	`AndyQ`	filetransfer.o(.text+0x299c): undefined reference to `QGArray type_info function
`22:20.21`	`AndyQ`	`bit further down..`
`22:20.22`	`AndyQ`	eytrans.o(.text+0x4aac): undefined reference to `QGArray type_info node'
`22:20.22`	`AndyQ`	keytrans.o: In function `QList<KeyTrans::KeyEntry> type_info function':
`22:20.22`	`AndyQ`	keytrans.o(.text+0x4b6c): undefined reference to `QGList type_info function'
`22:20.22`	`AndyQ`	keytrans.o(.text+0x4b90): undefined reference to `QGList type_info node'
`22:20.33`	`Dessimat0r`	`hrm`
`22:20.39`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: this is all RTTI stuff. someone f*cked up with -no-rtti and -rtti`
`22:21.37`	`ljp_work`	`tmake`
`22:22.22`	`AndyQ`	`qmake?`
`22:22.22`	`mickeyl`	`yeah, mr. tmake`
`22:22.46`	`AndyQ`	`well, my QMAKESPEC is QMAKESPEC=/home/andy/opie/opie-arm/mkspecs/qws/linux-sharp-g++`
`22:22.50`	`kergoth`	`I'm all for breaking new ground, but while we can, I'm for doing multiple feed/releases, to ensure those wishing to retain compatibility can.`
`22:23.00`	`AndyQ`	`and my TMAKEPATH is TMAKEPATH=/opt/tmake/lib/qws/linux-sharp-g++/`
`22:23.10`	`AndyQ`	`anything wrong there?`
`22:23.29`	`noda`	`kergoth: Hallo :)`
`22:23.34`	`AndyQ`	`hey kergoth`
`22:23.49`	`Dessimat0r`	`I'm trying to mount my CF card in Yoper, I've put the entry in /etc/fstab to bind /dev/scsi0 to /mnt/mc/, I've put the fs type to Auto, but still I cannot mount it - it insists on asking me to give it an fs type upon mount`
`22:25.02`	`Dessimat0r`	`It says, on startup, that /dev/scsi0 is my CF reader device`
`22:25.05`	`Dessimat0r`	`heh`
`22:25.05`	`*** join/#openzaurus endr (~martin@dsl-217-155-81-174.zen.co.uk)`
`22:25.06`	`Dessimat0r`	`gn`
`22:25.19`	`AndyQ`	`night`
`22:25.42`	`ljp_work`	`is automount build in your kernel?`
`22:26.07`	`Dessimat0r`	`automount? dunno about kernel config`
`22:26.07`	`Dessimat0r`	`lol`
`22:26.10`	`Dessimat0r`	`probably should be`
`22:26.42`	`Dessimat0r`	`noda: ?`
`22:26.46`	`noda`	`Whoever made that directory-changing effect deserves kudos :)`
`22:26.47`	`Dessimat0r`	`wassat?`
`22:26.55`	`noda`	`Dessimat0r: A file manager written with evas :)`
`22:27.01`	`Dessimat0r`	`evangelions?`
`22:27.14`	`kergoth`	`noda: FM written in evas? spifffyy`
`22:27.18`	`kergoth`	`noda: evas apps are always so perty`
`22:27.20`	`Dessimat0r`	`lol`
`22:27.52`	`noda`	`kergoth: Not very functional, but I think I'll be browsing around in my /usr/src a little more just for this directory-switching effect :)`
`22:28.25`	`noda`	`The folder you double-click on goes transparent and zooms up to fill the entire window, and all the icons in the background kind of show double, get bright and fade out :)`
`22:29.21`	`Dessimat0r`	`hrm.. the Enlighenment and Gnome teams should all help the KDE project`
`22:29.24`	`Dessimat0r`	`;)`
`22:29.30`	`noda`	`No :P`
`22:29.33`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: did you give up building opie-console BTW?`
`22:29.39`	`noda`	`That would hold back e17 from where it's going to go.`
`22:29.41`	`*** join/#openzaurus TheMasterMind1 (foobar@h-69-3-1-22.MCLNVA23.covad.net)`
`22:29.52`	`Dessimat0r`	`e17?`
`22:29.55`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: for now, yeah`
`22:29.59`	`AndyQ`	`k`
`22:30.01`	`Harlekin`	`kergoth: building is not the problem`
`22:30.05`	`Harlekin`	`kergoth: running is`
`22:30.06`	`noda`	`Dessimat0r: Ah, you don't know what you're talking about? What a surprise :P`
`22:30.10`	`Dessimat0r`	`lol`
`22:30.16`	`kergoth`	`Harlekin: opie-console? it failed to compile last i checked..`
`22:30.29`	`Harlekin`	`kergoth: 2 very very trivial changes and it compiles again`
`22:30.37`	`kergoth`	`Harlekin: ah :)`
`22:30.51`	`AndyQ`	`Harlekin: any idea what I'm doing wrong then?`
`22:30.59`	`Harlekin`	`AndyQ: compiling or running?`
`22:31.04`	`Harlekin`	`AndyQ: compiles fine here`
`22:31.10`	`Harlekin`	`but no idea why it does not run`
`22:31.10`	`AndyQ`	`Harlekin: compiling`
`22:31.17`	`Harlekin`	`AndyQ: which message?`
`22:31.40`	`AndyQ`	`Harlekin: I get tons of link errors - mickeyl reckons its something to do with RTTI (whatever that is`
`22:31.43`	`AndyQ`	`)`
`22:31.59`	`AndyQ`	io_serial.o(.text+0x162c): undefined reference to `QGArray type_info function'
`22:32.11`	`Harlekin`	`AndyQ: gcc3 build with gcc2 libqt?`
`22:32.20`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: just for the records... RTTI = RunTime type information - one of the more recent additions to c++`
`22:32.24`	`AndyQ`	`nope`
`22:32.28`	`Harlekin`	`AndyQ: sure?`
`22:32.29`	`AndyQ`	`ta`
`22:32.32`	`Harlekin`	`AndyQ: did a real make clean`
`22:32.36`	`AndyQ`	`yup - gcc is 2.95`
`22:32.43`	`Harlekin`	`and looked that really all o files are gone`
`22:32.43`	`AndyQ`	`arm-linux-gcc is 2.95`
`22:32.47`	`AndyQ`	`make clean`
`22:32.56`	`Harlekin`	`and all moc`
`22:33.34`	`*** join/#openzaurus beattie (~beattie@dsl093-039-041.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`22:33.38`	`kergoth`	`hey beattie`
`22:33.45`	`beattie`	`he kergoth`
`22:34.12`	`beattie`	`whats up?`
`22:34.22`	`*** join/#openzaurus billytwowilly (~chris@24.86.147.212)`
`22:34.23`	`AndyQ`	`strange thing is that when compiling opie-console , the compile doesn't have any mention of -fno-rtti but all other packages do`
`22:34.43`	`Harlekin`	`it compiles fine here for arm`
`22:34.44`	`noda`	`Well that'd explain your compile error, wouldn't it? :)`
`22:34.45`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: remove the opie-console Makefile*, just in case`
`22:34.57`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: trying....`
`22:36.17`	`treke`	`kergoth: simple idea for a new oz name. How about just plain Open Palmtop`
`22:36.45`	`kergoth`	`hmm`
`22:37.13`	`ljp_work`	`how about Poopie Palmtop`
`22:37.24`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: i can reproduce your error here on x86.`
`22:37.45`	`kergoth`	`mickeyl, AndyQ: confirm the opie-console .pro is sane? not doing anything stupid?`
`22:37.49`	`AndyQ`	`nope - made no difference - still no reference to -fno-rtti or none of the other commonly seen flags like -fno-exceptions or even -DQWS!`
`22:37.52`	`AndyQ`	`WTF?`
`22:37.53`	`ljp_work`	`how about calling it Opie Palmtop`
`22:38.21`	`AndyQ`	`Harlekin: a typical line looks like: arm-linux-g++ -DQT_QWS_SHARP -DQT_QWS_EBX -c -DHAVE_OPENPTY -Wall -W -O2 -DQT_NO_DEBUG -I/home/andy/opie/opie-arm/include -I/home/andy/qte/qt-2.3.4-arm/include -I/home/andy/opie/opie-arm/mkspecs/qws/linux-sharp-g++ -o procctl.o procctl.cpp`
`22:38.48`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: i have the error. its the pro file there is CONFIG = instead of CONFIG +=`
`22:38.56`	`AndyQ`	`ahhhhhhhh`
`22:38.57`	`mickeyl`	`tsss....`
`22:38.59`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`22:39.03`	`kergoth`	`figured it was something simple like that`
`22:39.08`	`Harlekin`	`yeah`
`22:39.21`	`beattie`	`I like oz, just drop the open zaurus :)`
`22:39.24`	`mickeyl`	`so, can we let him commit this now ? :-)`
`22:39.36`	`AndyQ`	`hang on.....`
`22:39.48`	`Harlekin`	`mickeyl: if it runs on zaurus`
`22:39.53`	`*** join/#openzaurus lsmith (~vandal@pD9E77BF7.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`22:39.57`	`Harlekin`	`mickeyl: since on ipaq it does not afterwards`
`22:40.32`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: made no difference`
`22:40.44`	`ljp_work`	`call it Ozzy`
`22:41.08`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: you must do a full rebuild or try rm Makefile, because otherwise it don't generate the opie-console makefile new`
`22:41.14`	`beattie`	`ozzy could be a tradmark problem`
`22:41.17`	`AndyQ`	`k`
`22:41.46`	`AndyQ`	`thats it`
`22:41.46`	`ljp_work`	`no it wouldnt`
`22:42.09`	`Twiun`	`D'I'Z? (as in DIY)`
`22:42.09`	`ljp_work`	`bbl`
`22:42.30`	`ljp_work`	`call it 'l33t dood'`
`22:44.58`	`AndyQ`	mickeyl: OK, down to one link error: MyPty.o: In function `MyPty::openPty(void)':
`22:44.58`	`AndyQ`	MyPty.o(.text+0x874): undefined reference to `openpty'
`22:44.58`	`AndyQ`	`c`
`22:45.23`	`FrenkYo`	`xmms-e doesn't start on openzaurus 3.1r1 :<`
`22:45.42`	`FrenkYo`	`where can I found the ipk qpe-base :?`
`22:45.43`	`AndyQ`	`FrenkYo: install libts - that should sort it`
`22:45.55`	`FrenkYo`	`AndyQ: thx`
`22:45.56`	`kergoth`	`heh, xmms-e should _not_ be linking against libts directly`
`22:46.00`	`AndyQ`	`FrenkYo: set force-depends on for those packages`
`22:46.11`	`AndyQ`	`that rely on qpe-base`
`22:46.12`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: insert -lpty into LIBS in the config file and regenerate the Makefile`
`22:46.18`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: k`
`22:47.00`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: you have the openpty libs ?`
`22:47.18`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: shared libraries (libpty.so)`
`22:47.18`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: nope - that was my next bit - can't find -lpty :)`
`22:47.33`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: custom build environment? then you must build them`
`22:47.33`	`kenb`	`hi folks.`
`22:47.37`	`kenb`	`public announcement time`
`22:47.38`	`kenb`	`http://security.e-matters.de/advisories/012003.html`
`22:47.46`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: arse!`
`22:47.47`	`hardwire`	`hi person.`
`22:47.51`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: or take them out of an ipkg`
`22:48.00`	`kenb`	`CVS hole`
`22:48.14`	`kenb`	`These updates close a vulnerability which would permit`
`22:48.14`	`kenb`	`arbitrary command execution on servers configured to allow anonymous`
`22:48.15`	`kenb`	`read-only access.`
`22:48.17`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: which one?`
`22:48.25`	`kergoth`	`kenb: ack`
`22:48.31`	`*** join/#openzaurus raster (~raster@CPE-144-137-103-58.nsw.bigpond.net.au)`
`22:48.37`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: good question....`
`22:48.39`	`kenb`	`grab 1.11.5 to fix`
`22:48.47`	`kenb`	`RedHat Users: https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2003-012.html`
`22:49.29`	`kenb`	`kergoth: better get someone patching openzaurus.org's trees`
`22:50.01`	`kergoth`	`openzaurus.org cvs is hosted on SF`
`22:50.21`	`Twiun`	`isn't that cvs a slave of the bk tree anyway?`
`22:50.39`	`kergoth`	`that cvs is old and unmaintained`
`22:50.41`	`kenb`	`kergoth: k.. sf.net I think has it fixed already`
`22:50.43`	`kergoth`	`I should have them kill it off`
`22:51.05`	`raster`	`kergoth: KILL KILL! :)`
`22:51.19`	`kergoth`	`raster: damn right ;) hows it goin man?`
`22:52.11`	`raster`	`kergoth: not too foul. mulling over how best to abstract basic display handling between target outputs... or maybe i should move that abstraction up a layer...`
`22:52.18`	`FrenkYo`	`AndyQ: I've installed libts and all the other lib requested by xmms-e, but it doesn't start :�<`
`22:52.31`	`kergoth`	`'doesnt start doesnt tell us much'`
`22:52.32`	`kergoth`	`er`
`22:52.36`	`AndyQ`	`FrenkYo: start a console and run xmms from there`
`22:52.44`	`AndyQ`	`and tell use what error you get`
`22:52.46`	`kergoth`	`misquotes, but you get hte point`
`22:52.54`	`kergoth`	`yeah thanks andy, i'm not coherent today :)`
`22:52.59`	`AndyQ`	`hehe`
`22:53.00`	`kergoth`	`raster: cool cool`
`22:53.02`	`raster`	`kergoth: more beer!`
`22:53.02`	`raster`	`:)`
`22:53.09`	`kergoth`	`i wish`
`22:53.12`	`AndyQ`	`I think lots more beer`
`22:53.13`	`AndyQ`	`!`
`22:53.16`	`kergoth`	`stuck at work for .. 2 more hours`
`22:53.29`	`chouimat`	`back`
`22:53.39`	`FrenkYo`	`AndyQ: there aren't any output :<`
`22:53.41`	`kergoth`	`where the hell did i put my CF ide card`
`22:53.43`	`kergoth`	`hmm`
`22:53.48`	`kergoth`	`ah!`
`22:53.50`	`kergoth`	`on the floor`
`22:53.53`	`kenb`	`hahah`
`22:54.04`	`AndyQ`	`FrenkYo: thats what I had but installing libts fixed it for me`
`22:54.05`	`kergoth`	`well, i didnt put it there ;)`
`22:54.25`	`chouimat`	`hmmm I love that subject for emails: local lesbians :)`
`22:55.13`	`AndyQ`	`lol`
`22:56.09`	`Com[Plex]`	`HOT MONEY SEX0R3!!`
`22:56.14`	`Com[Plex]`	`omfg wrong window`
`22:56.17`	`Bala`	`:)`
`22:56.19`	`FrenkYo`	`AndyQ: I rebooted the Z and now xmms-e start ;>`
`22:56.22`	`AndyQ`	`:)`
`22:56.24`	`Com[Plex]`	`just kidding. whats happnin?`
`22:56.37`	`AndyQ`	`FrenkYo: cool - dont ask why - just accept it :)`
`22:57.20`	`Dessimat0r`	`. /dev/scsi0 /mnt/mc/ auto rw,exec,noauto,users 0 0 <- do you see anything wrong with this?`
`22:57.20`	`FrenkYo`	`:>`
`22:57.38`	`Dessimat0r`	`. /mnt/mc/ exists`
`22:59.31`	`Dessimat0r`	`you must specifiy the filesystem type - argh!`
`22:59.42`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: ftp://ftp.debian.org/pub/debian/pool/k/krb5/libkrb53_1.2.7-2_arm.deb actually contains /usr/lib/libpty.so.1.2 - no idea, if that is what we want, though :-D`
`22:59.55`	`Twiun`	`right... gotta go, g'night folks`
`23:00.00`	`Dessimat0r`	`gn Twiun`
`23:00.32`	`kergoth`	`woo`
`23:00.55`	`kergoth`	`kenb: got the init function done. will be done with exit in a few, and the request function is next`
`23:01.17`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: wrapper or rewrite?`
`23:01.37`	`kenb`	`kergoth: excellent`
`23:01.55`	`kenb`	`kergoth: so I'll be able to go buy an SD card this weekend then? :)`
`23:01.57`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: neither. alteration.`
`23:02.09`	`treke`	`kergoth: that sounds nasty`
`23:02.20`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: using disasm ?`
`23:02.21`	`kenb`	`kergoth: hacking the disasm'd code?`
`23:02.24`	`Dessimat0r`	`heh`
`23:02.28`	`kergoth`	`kenb, chouimat: yep`
`23:02.32`	`TheMasterMind1`	`funstuff`
`23:02.34`	`kenb`	`hahaha`
`23:02.43`	`kergoth`	`;)`
`23:02.55`	`TheMasterMind1`	`man, this is insane. 600 signups an hour`
`23:03.07`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: now if we can hack disasm that it produce c or c++ code ...`
`23:03.22`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`23:03.30`	`kergoth`	`that, no, but it coudl be done manually easily enough`
`23:03.40`	`kergoth`	`and man, this code sucks even in asm`
`23:03.44`	`jmhodges`	`lol`
`23:03.45`	`kergoth`	`it mustve really sucked in c`
`23:03.47`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: I know ...`
`23:03.47`	`TheMasterMind1`	`lol!`
`23:03.49`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`23:03.57`	`mickeyl`	`:-D`
`23:04.10`	`treke`	`I wonder what would be worse lineo code or a regenerated version of lineo code`
`23:04.11`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: compiler emit code based on template so ...`
`23:04.27`	`kergoth`	`yep`
`23:04.29`	`chouimat`	`treke: can't be worse`
`23:04.36`	`kenb`	`TheMasterMind1: 600 sign ups for what?`
`23:04.47`	`TheMasterMind1`	`kenb: this website, kingsofchaos.com its going crazy`
`23:04.53`	`kenb`	`oh`
`23:05.01`	`TheMasterMind1`	`and this goddamn redhat server is dying on us`
`23:05.11`	`chouimat`	`treke: I can send you code written by students :)`
`23:05.16`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i wanna get debian on it but i don't have physical access`
`23:05.38`	`treke`	`TheMasterMind1: simple answer, download vmware`
`23:05.42`	`treke`	`TheMasterMind1: install redhat`
`23:06.02`	`treke`	`TheMasterMind1: Then upgrade the virtual machine to debian using ssh only. Repeat 5 times and then try it on the real thing`
`23:06.12`	`noda`	`lol`
`23:06.29`	`TheMasterMind1`	`treke: heh, not a bad idea`
`23:06.36`	`noda`	`TheMasterMind1: Well, it all depends on just how critical it'd be if you had to get someone to type a few things at the console.`
`23:06.53`	`chouimat`	`TheMasterMind1: what is that website`
`23:06.59`	`TheMasterMind1`	`chouimat: its a game`
`23:07.10`	`TheMasterMind1`	`a stupid game, imho`
`23:07.12`	`TheMasterMind1`	`but a popular game`
`23:07.15`	`TheMasterMind1`	`so i'm not complaining`
`23:07.24`	`chouimat`	`TheMasterMind1: like utopia?`
`23:07.32`	`TheMasterMind1`	`shrug`
`23:07.34`	`TheMasterMind1`	`never heard of it`
`23:07.41`	`AndyQ`	`mickeyl: nope - that lib didn't work :(`
`23:07.46`	`chouimat`	`TheMasterMind1: don't miss anything :)`
`23:07.58`	`treke`	`TheMasterMind1: its a reasonably straighforward process assuming you have spare space, but its not the type of thing you'll get right the first try`
`23:08.36`	`TheMasterMind1`	`treke: yea, true. we don't have extra space on the server either`
`23:08.38`	`TheMasterMind1`	`so i'm not sure what i can do`
`23:08.51`	`treke`	`not nearly as bad as installing redhat without using the installer :)`
`23:08.56`	`noda`	`TheMasterMind1: nfs! :P`
`23:09.03`	`TheMasterMind1`	`resizing partitions sounds painful`
`23:09.05`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: what is missing from 2.4.19 beside the sdmcc.o ?`
`23:09.15`	`TheMasterMind1`	`chouimat: touchscreen`
`23:09.15`	`TheMasterMind1`	`irda`
`23:09.19`	`TheMasterMind1`	`and other bits`
`23:09.19`	`kenb`	`irda`
`23:09.21`	`treke`	`TheMasterMind1: put the base system on /home?`
`23:09.21`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: irda needs testing, it may need work. TS X values`
`23:09.23`	`noda`	`Nah, parted resizes partitions just fine. Except for the mounted root partion, which is risky.`
`23:09.35`	`TheMasterMind1`	`treke: yea that'd work`
`23:10.36`	`TheMasterMind1`	`cept if you get it up, you still have all that other redhat crap lying around`
`23:10.38`	`TheMasterMind1`	`but easy enough to cleanup`
`23:10.41`	`noda`	`Hey yeah, install debian to a new directory, then edit /etc/fstab on the old one (and the new one) to point to the new one :)`
`23:10.59`	`noda`	`s/directory/partition`
`23:11.56`	`treke`	`yup, redhat will just be taking up space on another partion where it can be removed when the time comes`
`23:12.05`	`kergoth`	`hm, i need to multiply a value in a register by 152 in ASM.. fastest way? mov r0, r3, lsl #7 would give me 128 * r3, then need another 20 * r3`
`23:12.08`	`kergoth`	`asm is fun :)`
`23:12.11`	`kergoth`	`hm`
`23:12.43`	`TheMasterMind1`	`hehe`
`23:12.46`	`TheMasterMind1`	`asm is fun`
`23:12.49`	`treke`	`thats faster than just 156 * r3? :)`
`23:13.02`	`noda`	`lol`
`23:13.06`	`kergoth`	`treke: shifts are much faster than actual multiplication`
`23:13.07`	`treke`	`<kergoth> No, but it gives you the right result`
`23:13.19`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: any news about a new bootloader?`
`23:13.21`	`kergoth`	`treke: its a common optimization`
`23:13.25`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: nah, havent touched it`
`23:13.40`	`mickeyl`	`AndyQ: hmm... well, then... anyone with know where to get libpty from? kergoth?`
`23:13.47`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: having code?`
`23:13.48`	`kergoth`	`hmm dunno ..`
`23:13.55`	`treke`	`kergoth: yes but if you have to multiply by 20 anyways, is that faster than just multiplaying by 152?`
`23:14.27`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: opie-build question - sfcave-sdl requires some files from pics/sfcave and sounds/sfcave`
`23:14.28`	`kergoth`	`treke: i dont necessarilyi have to multiple by 20 anyways, i could play further games`
`23:14.33`	`kergoth`	`treke: thats what i'm wondering`
`23:14.38`	`chouimat`	`treke: kergoth: shift are faster in asm than anything`
`23:14.39`	`TheMasterMind1`	`heh`
`23:14.43`	`kergoth`	`yep`
`23:14.51`	`AndyQ`	`should I put the files in pics and sounds and how will the ipkg build know to include them?`
`23:15.01`	`TheMasterMind1`	`how do you come up with 20 left after & 128`
`23:15.05`	`TheMasterMind1`	`i don't follow the math`
`23:15.11`	`treke`	`I just wasnt getting why a bunch of shifts follwed by a multiply was better than just a multiply`
`23:15.20`	`kergoth`	`TheMasterMind1: cause i cant add? hehe`
`23:15.29`	`TheMasterMind1`	`kergoth: gotcha`
`23:15.31`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: use binary shift to 128 and add the rest`
`23:15.32`	`noda`	`Wouldn't it be 8 * 19?`
`23:15.35`	`kergoth`	`treke: if the remainder is small, say .. 2 or 3, you could add`
`23:15.40`	`kergoth`	`treke: shift + add is faster than mul`
`23:15.44`	`treke`	`true`
`23:15.49`	`kergoth`	`and you can add and shift in a single pass`
`23:15.53`	`kergoth`	`i.e. add r0, r2, r0, lsl #2`
`23:16.51`	`kergoth`	`that add gives you an extra.. i.e. a shift by two is 4 * r0 .. were i to add r0, r3, r3, lsl #2 for example, i get 5 * r3 in r0`
`23:17.14`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: exactly`
`23:17.16`	`kergoth`	`example`
`23:17.17`	`kergoth`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:17.17`	`kergoth`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:17.17`	`kergoth`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:17.25`	`kergoth`	`produces 148 * r3 + r2 in r0`
`23:17.39`	`kergoth`	`i now want, 152 * r3 + r2 in r0, to adjust to the changed structure size`
`23:17.54`	`kergoth`	`so I can do something similar. those 3 instructions are still ffaster than the single mul`
`23:17.59`	`kergoth`	`its quite fun really`
`23:18.22`	`treke`	`kergoth: do you also consider having hairs pulled one by one from your nuts fun?`
`23:18.25`	`chouimat`	`hmmm 152=128+24 -> shift by 7 and add 24* :)`
`23:18.25`	`kergoth`	`haha`
`23:18.49`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: yeah, thats what i was thinking as well`
`23:19.15`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: but mul by 152 can do to`
`23:19.29`	`Bala`	`isnt 152 = shift by 7 + shift by 4 + shift by 3 ?`
`23:20.19`	`*** join/#openzaurus rabbit_uk (~chatzilla@host213-121-67-216.surfport24.v21.co.uk)`
`23:20.27`	`chouimat`	`Bala: yup`
`23:20.49`	`kergoth`	`hmm`
`23:21.13`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: sorry to repeat but should I put the files in pics and sounds and how will the ipkg build know to include them?`
`23:21.24`	`chouimat`	`TheMasterMind1: 2^7=128, 2^4=16, 2^3=8-> 128+16+8=152 :)`
`23:21.28`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: that SFCave-sdl uses?`
`23:21.30`	`Bala`	`its been a while since ive done any asm though..`
`23:21.49`	`chouimat`	`Bala: >> in C`
`23:21.58`	`kergoth`	`so`
`23:21.59`	`kergoth`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:21.59`	`kergoth`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:21.59`	`kergoth`	`<PROTECTED>`
`23:22.07`	`kergoth`	`look right?`
`23:22.10`	`Bala`	`yes.. i use >> and << a bit :)`
`23:22.30`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: the Files field in the control file`
`23:22.38`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: lsl is the shift operator?`
`23:22.39`	`kergoth`	`AndyQ: its a opieism, used by the opie mkipks script. not a standard field`
`23:22.42`	`AndyQ`	`control file - config.in?`
`23:22.46`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: yeah, left shift`
`23:23.04`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: yup that look right`
`23:24.28`	`*** join/#openzaurus drw (~drw@adsl-67-37-158-100.dialup.chcgil.ameritech.net)`
`23:26.20`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: forgot i needed to add r2 to it.. changed the first mov to add r0, r2, r3, lsl #7.. i love arm asm`
`23:26.40`	`chouimat`	`http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/01/20/segway.ban.ap/index.html`
`23:27.17`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: yup easier to read than the intel one. the powerpc one is quite nice too`
`23:27.31`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: is it? i'll have to try that sometime (ppc)`
`23:28.15`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: need a mac for that :)`
`23:28.23`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: or a convenient AIX box`
`23:28.27`	`kergoth`	`chouimat: :)`
`23:28.32`	`kergoth`	`brb`
`23:28.43`	`chouimat`	`kergoth: maybe I can find an old rs6000`
`23:30.41`	`kenb`	`i have one`
`23:30.52`	`chouimat`	`kenb: at home?`
`23:30.57`	`kenb`	`yea`
`23:31.10`	`chouimat`	`kenb: lucky you :)`
`23:31.28`	`kenb`	`Unused tho. Should still boot tho. AIX 3.x or something`
`23:31.58`	`*** join/#openzaurus foo_monkey (~foo_monke@roc-24-59-151-20.rochester.rr.com)`
`23:32.00`	`treke`	`what model?`
`23:32.07`	`kenb`	`I don't think it's PPC based tho`
`23:32.13`	`chouimat`	`kenb: specs?`
`23:32.19`	`kenb`	`I'd have to look.`
`23:32.24`	`kenb`	`I'm not at home yet`
`23:32.32`	`treke`	`it one of the little pizza boxes?`
`23:32.44`	`kenb`	`it's a desktop, but a big-ass one.`
`23:32.57`	`kenb`	`looks a little like the old IBM PS/2's`
`23:33.18`	`kenb`	`Except bigger and with a serial console instead of a monitor ;)`
`23:33.29`	`chouimat`	`kenb: :(`
`23:34.00`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: OK, I think SFCave-sdl has been completely addded to opie CVS now`
`23:34.12`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: sooooo many things to add and remember to add :)`
`23:34.39`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: bet I've fucked up somewhere though :)`
`23:34.42`	`treke`	`AndyQ: might want to let ofels know`
`23:34.51`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: don't shout too much if I have :)`
`23:34.53`	`ljp`	`boo!`
`23:34.54`	`AndyQ`	`treke: whose ofels?`
`23:34.57`	`AndyQ`	`Oliver?`
`23:35.00`	`treke`	`AndyQ: yes`
`23:35.10`	`treke`	`does the ipaq builds`
`23:35.17`	`AndyQ`	`treke: Ahh - OK will do`
`23:35.50`	`treke`	`if he needs to start building SDL :)`
`23:35.57`	`ljp`	`:D`
`23:37.33`	`kergoth`	`poor oliver, i should just add ipaq bits to the buildroot so he can use it`
`23:37.35`	`kergoth`	`;)`
`23:37.38`	`AndyQ`	`OK, I've done so :)`
`23:37.54`	`AndyQ`	`kergoth: will he scream blue murder at me ? :)`
`23:37.59`	`treke`	`wonder if the sdl sfcave will run right on the ipaq :)`
`23:38.08`	`chouimat`	`who is olivers?`
`23:38.23`	`treke`	`chouimat: oliver fels. He does the opie builds for the ipaq`
`23:39.07`	`ljp`	`whats an ipaq?`
`23:39.14`	`AndyQ`	`hehe - its a pile of shit!`
`23:39.31`	`AndyQ`	`I had one for two days and took it back coz it didn't do what I expected it to be able to do`
`23:39.48`	`AndyQ`	`although I do admit that one or two people may like them :)`
`23:39.52`	`chouimat`	`I heard that someone compiled opie for the ps2`
`23:40.01`	`AndyQ`	`lol`
`23:40.06`	`treke`	`AndyQ: the ipaq is nifty. windows ce is a pile of shit :)`
`23:40.15`	`Harlekin`	`chouimat: and some other wince devices`
`23:40.25`	`AndyQ`	`treke: yeah - should have been more precise`
`23:40.29`	`Harlekin`	`chouimat: and there is a secrete device its running on .)`
`23:40.36`	`AndyQ`	`I like the hardware its the overall package I don't like`
`23:40.53`	`chouimat`	`Harlekin: I would love to have opie on a playstation 2:)`
`23:40.54`	`ljp`	`you shoudl have put opie/familiar on it before your returned it`
`23:41.12`	`treke`	`of course, if you like the zaurus hardware, thats even better`
`23:41.17`	`AndyQ`	`I wasn't quite prepared to take the risk of trashing a brand new �500 piece of kit by attempting to install linux on it`
`23:41.29`	`AndyQ`	`especially at the time it was very very early days for familiar`
`23:41.39`	`AndyQ`	`I couldn't get java installed on it`
`23:41.39`	`*** part/#openzaurus Dessimat0r (~root@public1-birk1-3-cust60.bagu.broadband.ntl.com)`
`23:41.51`	`AndyQ`	`the C/C++ dev kit cost ��`
`23:42.01`	`treke`	`yeah familiar was pretty ugly until 0.5`
`23:42.02`	`chouimat`	`AndyQ: huh?`
`23:42.17`	`AndyQ`	`and I thought that �500 was a tad too much for a cool mp3 player and solitaire machine`
`23:42.53`	`AndyQ`	`chouimat: this was way back in Feb last year`
`23:42.53`	`drw`	`Harlekin: secret device?`
`23:43.02`	`chouimat`	`AndyQ: ipaq?`
`23:43.08`	`AndyQ`	`chouimat: yup`
`23:43.18`	`chouimat`	`AndyQ: I have the wince sdk here`
`23:43.38`	`treke`	`the c/c++ dev kit is a free download now`
`23:43.39`	`AndyQ`	`then I got the Z in march and it does exactly what I want`
`23:43.52`	`AndyQ`	`yeah but thats no good to me NOW!`
`23:44.05`	`AndyQ`	`back then it cost about 700 or so quid`
`23:44.20`	`AndyQ`	`I guess the Z showed them :)`
`23:44.51`	`AndyQ`	`I vaguely remember you could get it easily if you were in the States but not in the UK`
`23:44.56`	`AndyQ`	`the SDK`
`23:44.57`	`treke`	`used to require VC++ :)`
`23:45.18`	`AndyQ`	`treke - yeah but I have that`
`23:45.33`	`treke`	`poor guy`
`23:45.36`	`AndyQ`	`not that I've used it since turning to Java and linux :)`
`23:45.58`	`AndyQ`	`and mingw for Windows side (just found that)`
`23:47.55`	`chouimat`	`http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2907417066&category=318`
`23:48.31`	`treke`	`hmm, the oz sourc tree is smaller than I expected`
`23:49.42`	`tronical`	`chouimat: ~$4 , no bids and ~30 minutes left???`
`23:49.43`	`AndyQ`	`chouimat: This is an informational package auction only, you are not bidding on the actual electronics. This information package will explain to you everything that you need to know and how to get started, and this is perfectly legal! Within weeks you can be getting wholesale priced items from companies`
`23:49.51`	`tronical`	`chouimat: for two pdas? crazy`
`23:49.59`	`tronical`	`oh`
`23:50.14`	`tronical`	`bleh`
`23:50.25`	`AndyQ`	`total scam`
`23:50.41`	`AndyQ`	`"Is this program easy to use? Yes, it is very easy, literally anyone can do it! I guide you through the simple process step by step "`
`23:50.57`	`AndyQ`	`"Is this program legal? Yes! And unlike other programs on eBay which details ILLEGAL methods [you will be caught instantly!], you don't have to lie or pretend to be someone else!! This program is 100% legit, I've done it first hand myself! "`
`23:51.14`	`AndyQ`	`and if you believe that - hey I've got a bridge going cheap!`
`23:51.33`	`chouimat`	`AndyQ: I though so`
`23:52.20`	`chouimat`	`http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3001219984&category=15005 <- that look better`
`23:52.54`	`AndyQ`	`yup - better`
`23:53.04`	`AndyQ`	`only one star rating though :)`
`23:53.21`	`treke`	`kergoth: oz question, is an oz initrd just a jffs2 image?`
`23:53.53`	`chouimat`	`http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3001320541&category=15005`
`23:54.20`	`kergoth`	`treke: yep, padded to size`
`23:54.26`	`treke`	`ok`
`23:54.49`	`chouimat`	`brb`
`23:55.13`	`*** join/#openzaurus kolla (~kolla@firda.home.uninett.no)`
`23:57.12`	`treke`	`oh cool and you can disable padding`
`23:57.58`	`mickeyl`	`n8`
`23:58.54`	`treke`	`kergoth: this is rather nice`
`23:59.06`	`*** join/#openzaurus TheMasterMind1 (foobar@h-69-3-154-85.MCLNVA23.covad.net)`

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