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| 00:48.34 | Xumbi | anyone here running debian on their z? |
| 00:56.45 | highvoltz | How do I format my sd memory card ? I unmounted it an ran 'fsck.vfat -avV /dev/mmcda1" but I just get a bus error |
| 00:56.48 | cleverdra | Xumbi - no. Who would do that? |
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| 01:10.58 | Xumbi | how do you go right to the shell when OZ boots? |
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| 02:07.16 | cyn | http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2003Jun/bpd20030611020369.htm |
| 02:11.36 | Solar[X] | That's pretty awesome. |
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| 02:14.40 | cyn | I'll have to totally agree with that |
| 02:18.14 | TheMasterMind1 | its not that cool.. |
| 02:18.19 | hardwire | sure it is |
| 02:18.21 | TheMasterMind1 | sprint has had unlimited vision for a while |
| 02:18.29 | TheMasterMind1 | and they don't limit sms's |
| 02:19.02 | TheMasterMind1 | and they don't have tzone shit, which only lets you browse wap, doesn't give you a public ip, and charges shitload of money for everything since its all "premium content" |
| 02:19.31 | TheMasterMind1 | sprint gives me a internet ip, 80kbps, html browser on the phone, and dont' charge for crap |
| 02:19.52 | TheMasterMind1 | and i can connect my phone to either zaurus or laptop, use as modem to dial #777 and i'm online |
| 02:20.34 | cyn | TheMasterMind1: right, which is what that is |
| 02:20.41 | cyn | a gprs connection |
| 02:20.52 | cyn | the limiting sms's is gay i'll agree |
| 02:21.26 | cyn | tzones is just wap, don't think of it as a data plan |
| 02:21.33 | cyn | how much does sprint cost |
| 02:21.46 | TheMasterMind1 | 10bucks/month with any plan for unlimited vision |
| 02:22.04 | cyn | and you get 10kBps |
| 02:22.07 | cyn | not bad |
| 02:22.08 | TheMasterMind1 | no |
| 02:22.14 | TheMasterMind1 | 10kbps ? |
| 02:22.19 | cyn | i said B |
| 02:22.28 | cyn | I dislike thinking in bits |
| 02:22.29 | TheMasterMind1 | oh |
| 02:22.38 | TheMasterMind1 | yep |
| 02:22.41 | TheMasterMind1 | is damn good |
| 02:22.43 | cyn | I'm the application level I want bytes |
| 02:23.55 | cyn | whats sprint vision using |
| 02:24.09 | cyn | not gsm |
| 02:24.13 | TheMasterMind1 | im' not sure |
| 02:25.07 | cyn | gprs is 115 optimal |
| 02:25.20 | cyn | you actually get 80, like, measured sustained? |
| 02:25.34 | cyn | sorry to hound you, just curious, I have a bud who I like to compete a bit with |
| 02:25.42 | cyn | and he's on a sprint plan I'm fairly certain |
| 02:28.58 | TheMasterMind1 | well the site says 144kbps |
| 02:29.05 | TheMasterMind1 | in my area, i get about 80 |
| 02:29.33 | cyn | so you can pay like $30 bux and get an hour or three of cell talk time and unlimited data |
| 02:29.41 | TheMasterMind1 | yep |
| 02:29.46 | cyn | damnit |
| 02:29.48 | TheMasterMind1 | well, technically.. if you read the contract |
| 02:29.55 | TheMasterMind1 | you're not allowed to use the phone as a modem |
| 02:29.59 | cyn | haha |
| 02:30.01 | TheMasterMind1 | =) |
| 02:30.03 | cyn | so they'd know |
| 02:30.05 | cleverdra | master - what a curious idea. |
| 02:30.20 | cyn | the unlimited data is only for use directly through the phone |
| 02:30.22 | TheMasterMind1 | but people have been doing it for months now and they haven't done anything |
| 02:30.26 | cyn | yea |
| 02:30.29 | cyn | but that's why this is big news |
| 02:30.45 | TheMasterMind1 | especially if you don't use their windows software i don't think they know its not from the phone |
| 02:31.09 | TheMasterMind1 | heh, you think it'll last? tmobile will get raped out of bandwidth and pull the deal |
| 02:31.10 | cyn | yeah i woulda heard about that if it was for use w/ other stuff |
| 02:31.13 | cyn | yeah |
| 02:31.18 | cyn | well if I sign up they can't pull the deal |
| 02:31.20 | TheMasterMind1 | my friend got a tmobile phone last week |
| 02:31.22 | TheMasterMind1 | i check it out |
| 02:31.23 | cyn | they're already raped on the danger devices |
| 02:31.24 | TheMasterMind1 | i wasn't very impressed |
| 02:31.31 | cyn | i've already got tmobile |
| 02:31.32 | TheMasterMind1 | i'm more satisfied with my sprint phone |
| 02:31.36 | cyn | had it for 7mos |
| 02:31.48 | TheMasterMind1 | one of the color screen / data enabled ones? |
| 02:31.54 | cyn | t68i |
| 02:31.57 | cyn | irda and bluetooth |
| 02:32.10 | cyn | specifically purchased to give me ip connectivity to a pda or laptop ;) |
| 02:32.10 | TheMasterMind1 | thats one of the nice things about the motorolas |
| 02:32.14 | TheMasterMind1 | they have irda and bluetooth |
| 02:32.17 | TheMasterMind1 | the sprint phones don't |
| 02:32.17 | cyn | yeah |
| 02:32.24 | cyn | when I was looking only tmobile had bluetooth and irda phones |
| 02:32.33 | TheMasterMind1 | i think thats still true |
| 02:32.35 | cyn | most stuff didn't have any bluetooth |
| 02:32.41 | cyn | bluetooth is sweet |
| 02:32.42 | cyn | well |
| 02:32.45 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 02:32.49 | cyn | it's expensive |
| 02:32.52 | cyn | but it's convenient |
| 02:33.03 | cyn | it's cool to like, dial out with my phone still in my pocket |
| 02:33.15 | cyn | from my pda |
| 02:33.25 | cyn | but I don't have a cf bluetooth card so I can't do that atm anyway hehe |
| 02:34.03 | cyn | yea sprints actual data plan is like $100 for unlimited, but if that works just as well - woo! |
| 02:34.14 | cyn | I doubt most people, even heavy users, would use more than like 10-20 megs a month anway |
| 02:34.32 | cyn | the initial interest period will be heavy, after they suffer through that people will just leave the plan and never use it |
| 02:34.42 | cyn | cept for the occassional heavy user such as us :) |
| 02:35.31 | TheMasterMind1 | there was a person in #gpe earlier today who bought the sprint merlin card |
| 02:35.42 | TheMasterMind1 | and uses it with ipaq i think with the unlimited plan |
| 02:35.48 | TheMasterMind1 | flypiper |
| 02:36.15 | TheMasterMind1 | thats icky with the zaurus though cuz you have to get a bulky cf->pcmcia thing and plug in the pcmcia card into the Z |
| 02:37.06 | cyn | ew |
| 02:37.09 | cyn | that is icky |
| 02:37.17 | cyn | much rather have a bluetooth cf card :) |
| 02:37.25 | TheMasterMind1 | ya |
| 02:37.32 | cyn | but my wifi card works fine since I'm stuck at home 90% of the time |
| 02:37.43 | cyn | not much use at work etc. |
| 03:03.15 | chouimat|ZzZzz | night |
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| 03:23.16 | chrionix | is dpkg the old form of ipkg? |
| 03:23.36 | cleverdra | dpkg is the Debian form of ipkg, SFAIK. |
| 03:23.56 | chrionix | oh okay. |
| 03:24.10 | chrionix | hrmm, thanks. |
| 03:24.15 | ljp_laptop | newer ipkg knows dpkg |
| 03:25.02 | chrionix | ljp_laptop: yeah, okay. I just downloaded the perl debian packages for arm, but it breaks, and all the docs on the net I can find suggest using dpkg. |
| 03:26.17 | ljp_laptop | might try alien, and converting it to a tarball, and installing it that way. |
| 03:26.30 | ljp_laptop | but the lib depnds might be mushy |
| 03:26.45 | chrionix | what's alien? |
| 03:26.50 | ljp_laptop | :D |
| 03:27.01 | ljp_laptop | converts package formats |
| 03:27.07 | chrionix | ahh okay. |
| 03:27.25 | ljp_laptop | how does it break? |
| 03:28.19 | chrionix | it mentions that the postinst csript returned error 127. |
| 03:28.33 | chrionix | s/csript/script |
| 03:28.42 | ljp_laptop | hmm |
| 03:29.14 | chrionix | which from my fruitless google search appears to be a dependancy problem. |
| 03:30.05 | chrionix | and when I try to install perl-modules, it mentions it relies upon perl-5.6.1-7, and so when I try to install perl-5.6.1.7, it says it requires the modules. |
| 03:30.24 | chrionix | sort of a dependancy error loop |
| 03:30.55 | chrionix | a chicken or the egg type thing if you will :P |
| 03:31.42 | chrionix | of course my knowledge of such things is only enough to get me into trouble. Others have probably installed perl without any hassle whatsoever. |
| 03:36.49 | ljp_laptop | hmm |
| 03:41.48 | chrionix | I love this Z. As soon as I figure out how to do one thing, I go and break something else :) |
| 03:42.28 | chrionix | ls |
| 03:44.03 | ljp_laptop | bash: ls: command not found |
| 03:44.11 | chrionix | :) |
| 03:44.15 | chrionix | Sorry, wrong window |
| 03:44.35 | ljp_laptop | hehehe. common problem |
| 03:46.05 | cyn | chrionix: you could force depends, but if you install them both simult. it should go fine |
| 03:47.03 | chrionix | cyn: Really? Okay cool. |
| 03:47.12 | chrionix | cyn: as in ipkg install *.deb? |
| 03:47.38 | chrionix | I didn't even think of trying that. I figured one had to come first. |
| 03:48.22 | cyn | well you can list them space-seperated |
| 03:48.25 | cyn | separated |
| 03:49.42 | chrionix | and that won't just try to install them iteratively? |
| 03:50.06 | cyn | no it's smart about it |
| 03:50.15 | cyn | it looks on everything that happens as a whole in the one operation |
| 03:50.27 | chrionix | wow, that is cool. Okay thanks a lot. |
| 03:53.40 | cyn | np |
| 03:58.35 | ljp_laptop | grapes |
| 04:10.51 | cleverdra | "Language settings" sounds as if you could choose a language other than English. Where is the software for non-English languages? Simplified Chinese? |
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| 10:51.45 | Fare | hum. |
| 10:52.20 | Fare | compiling opie fails at linking libkeyview... |
| 10:53.47 | Fare | also, opie resets the .config each time I make |
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| 11:34.28 | sanaby | i want to run my OZ system using the SD card as much as possible... how should i do it? |
| 11:37.36 | Fare | tell ipkg to install stuff there |
| 11:37.46 | sanaby | lemme rephrase... |
| 11:37.51 | sanaby | I want to run my OZ system using the SD card as much as possible... How should I do it? I'll probably install the 64-0 zimage |
| 11:38.01 | sanaby | My options: a) install as normal, and install all apps to SD. b) move /opt + /root to SD c) follow FAQ #192 to run entirely off SD |
| 11:38.11 | sanaby | Do I have any other options? What are the pros/cons of each of the above? |
| 11:38.43 | Fare | what would you use your flash for, then??? |
| 11:38.56 | sanaby | for c), you mean? |
| 11:39.03 | Fare | yes |
| 11:39.26 | sanaby | i have no idea... in fact, i was wondering why someone would want to use c). |
| 11:39.51 | sanaby | but since it's a FAQ, there must be quite a lot of people asking, so there's probably some good reason for it |
| 11:40.39 | sanaby | but basically, I'd like to do it in such a fashion that when 3.3 comes out, I can just reflash to the new images, without having to reinstall/reconfigure all my apps (unless the apps are upgraded of course) |
| 11:41.49 | sanaby | hi... sorry, still there? |
| 11:42.47 | Fare | I have nothing to add |
| 11:42.58 | Fare | I'd like to put OZ on CF, so as to run it from a j820 |
| 11:43.56 | sanaby | what's a j820? |
| 11:46.02 | sanaby | any comments on whether a) or b) would meet my objective (of upgradability) better? |
| 11:46.32 | Fare | jornada 820 |
| 11:46.41 | sanaby | ah |
| 11:46.54 | Fare | with a, ideally, you'd just ipkg-link again or some such |
| 11:48.07 | sanaby | the ipkg-link mount /mnt/card? okay... would b) make it hard? |
| 11:49.44 | Fare | dunno |
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| 11:50.10 | sanaby | okay, thanks a lot, Fare... |
| 11:50.33 | sanaby | hmm, one other thing. how can I make packages install to SD by default? |
| 11:50.56 | sanaby | eg, when I use ipkg install, i often forget to specify the destination, and it goes to / |
| 11:51.42 | Fare | write a shell function or alias |
| 11:52.13 | Fare | and put it in your .bashrc |
| 11:52.19 | Fare | or .profile |
| 11:52.22 | Fare | or wherever |
| 11:52.52 | sanaby | hmm |
| 11:52.54 | sanaby | doh |
| 11:52.57 | sanaby | ;) |
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| 11:53.40 | Fare | mithro: did you have no problem compiling opie? |
| 11:53.49 | Fare | ld fails to link libkeyview |
| 11:58.38 | sanaby | hmm, okay... time to reflash ;) |
| 12:05.15 | sanaby | does it make sense to format my SD card as jffs2? |
| 12:05.21 | sanaby | instead of ext2, that is |
| 12:05.49 | Fare | sanaby: not that much |
| 12:06.49 | ljp_laptop | no |
| 12:10.11 | chrionix | Good evening all |
| 12:16.17 | mithro | Fare: use the OPIE_0_99 tag |
| 12:16.47 | sanaby | why does it not make sense to use jffs2? |
| 12:20.20 | sanaby | reason for that is that i'm trying to minimise writes to the ext2's metastructures |
| 12:21.05 | mithro | sanaby: why would you want to do that? |
| 12:21.35 | sanaby | to avoid killing the SD quickly, because of repeated writes to the same area? |
| 12:22.01 | mithro | well i've not heard of somebody killing SD yet... |
| 12:22.55 | sanaby | i vaguely remember reading somewhere that with ext2, it'll write to those metafiles periodically, and those cards do have a limited number of writes, especially rewriting over the same area repeatedly... |
| 12:23.00 | sanaby | at least, that's the idea. |
| 12:23.35 | mithro | sanaby: they are designed to use fat32 on it |
| 12:23.41 | mithro | and that writes to the same place all the time |
| 12:24.45 | sanaby | yes, but with fat32, you don't write to the same area even when nothing changes |
| 12:25.17 | sanaby | i _think_ with ext2, something is written even if no files are written |
| 12:26.03 | yeiazel | it's wrong |
| 12:26.35 | *** join/#openzaurus dj-submerge (~dj-submer@212.243.184.232) |
| 12:26.36 | dj-submerge | hi |
| 12:26.48 | mithro | sanaby: that would be pointless |
| 12:27.46 | sanaby | hmm, okay... |
| 12:28.10 | sanaby | on a seperate note, i've found files on my SD to go bad |
| 12:29.16 | sanaby | eg, # dd if=datebook.xml of=/dev/null |
| 12:29.18 | mithro | sanaby: never had that? |
| 12:29.24 | sanaby | dd: datebook.xml: Input/output error |
| 12:29.41 | mithro | could your SD card be bad? |
| 12:29.56 | sanaby | does that indicate a) a random event that i should ignore b) i did something wrong (like maybe turn the power off while writing) c) my SD is bad? |
| 12:30.14 | sanaby | and, how do i check if it's bad? |
| 12:33.12 | mithro | i have no idea about how to check if it's bad |
| 12:33.30 | mithro | but I/O error's normally seem like hardware error |
| 12:37.40 | dj-submerge | cool, didn't knew that u can dl hancomoffice officially |
| 12:38.06 | sanaby | yeah :/ |
| 12:38.11 | Fare | mithro: how do you do that? |
| 12:38.34 | Fare | (use the OPIE_0_99 tag) |
| 12:50.45 | dj-submerge | how can I install something to /mnt/card with ipkg ? -d /mnt/card doesn't work |
| 12:51.32 | jdh41 | ipkg install -dest sd whatever_pkg |
| 12:51.40 | jdh41 | ipkg-link whatever_pkg |
| 12:51.52 | jdh41 | iirc |
| 12:52.34 | dj-submerge | jdh41: ahh only sd ;) |
| 12:53.03 | jdh41 | check /etc/ipkg.conf for a list of locations |
| 12:55.05 | dj-submerge | hmm, ipkg doesn't create the icon/link ? |
| 12:55.35 | jdh41 | it might create the icon, however you'll need to force opie to refresh the screen |
| 12:55.47 | dj-submerge | jdh41: how ? |
| 12:55.49 | jdh41 | ipkg-link is needed to create the relevant symlinks for the package |
| 12:56.11 | jdh41 | dj-submerge: I restart opie, however theres probably an easier way I don't know of |
| 12:57.23 | djr | restart opie |
| 12:57.24 | djr | hehe |
| 12:57.47 | chouimat | morning |
| 12:57.47 | djr | it doesnt take long and its easy |
| 12:58.01 | djr | wow, it is morning |
| 12:58.04 | djr | 6am |
| 12:58.07 | djr | i forgot to sleep |
| 12:58.08 | djr | =/ |
| 13:00.32 | dj-submerge | restart of opie din't help.. where are the icons/shorcuts stored ? |
| 13:01.57 | chrionix | arg, if only it were possible for the light from the screen to illuminate the keyboard :) |
| 13:02.59 | djr | chrionix: kinda get used to it quickly |
| 13:03.01 | chrionix | dj-submerge: /opt/QtPalmtop/apps |
| 13:03.33 | chrionix | djr: Yeah, still learning my way around. |
| 13:06.14 | dj-submerge | chrionix: hmm the files are there.. but there are no icons shown ?! |
| 13:09.49 | chrionix | dj-submerge: what are you installing? |
| 13:10.26 | dj-submerge | Hancom Presenter and hancomsheet, both .desktops exist |
| 13:11.20 | chrionix | and you can run the program from the cli? |
| 13:11.45 | dj-submerge | couldn't use AQPkg because it won't override/use existing files from hancom word which worked perfectly |
| 13:11.52 | dj-submerge | chrionix: yes |
| 13:12.01 | dj-submerge | i can run hancom sheet |
| 13:13.48 | chrionix | dj-submerge: no idea man, ipkg normally loads the icons for me. |
| 13:14.06 | chrionix | anyway, I'm going to sleep. Night all. |
| 13:14.23 | dj-submerge | hmm HancomPresenter doesn't work , missing /opt/QtPamtop/bin/robus.rc |
| 13:15.10 | chrio|dead | dj-submerge: what version of the apps are you using? |
| 13:15.24 | chrio|dead | The new versions need the new sharp pim engine. |
| 13:15.37 | dj-submerge | latest from the hancom website |
| 13:15.44 | dj-submerge | ahh ;) |
| 13:15.52 | chrio|dead | ahh, I think they have the old version on their site. |
| 13:15.55 | chrio|dead | They did a few days ago. |
| 13:15.56 | dj-submerge | well word and sheet works fine |
| 13:16.10 | chrio|dead | yeah, sorry man. |
| 13:16.16 | chrio|dead | no idea. |
| 13:16.18 | dj-submerge | np, tny for your help |
| 13:16.32 | chrio|dead | np. see ya. |
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| 13:21.49 | wijnand | hey pHluid |
| 13:21.54 | pHluid | Morning. |
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| 13:45.08 | dj-submerge | hmm why do i get a 421 Service not available, remote server has closed connection |
| 13:45.14 | dj-submerge | any hint ? |
| 13:45.26 | dj-submerge | i try to ftp my oz |
| 13:47.10 | pHluid | Use a different client. |
| 13:47.31 | dj-submerge | ? |
| 13:47.57 | dj-submerge | shoudn't there bi any entry in /etc/inetd.conf ? |
| 13:48.04 | pHluid | ... |
| 13:48.24 | pHluid | Either you're hitting the wrong port, or your client isn't able to handle logins with no password |
| 13:48.29 | pHluid | Try using sftp. |
| 13:48.59 | dj-submerge | i though the defeault passwd for oz ist rootme |
| 13:49.29 | pHluid | default is NO password. |
| 13:52.57 | dj-submerge | pHluid: passwd is rootme, the security settings where wrong |
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| 14:52.53 | sanaby | does it make sense to format my SD card with ext3? |
| 14:53.05 | sanaby | (rather than ext2) |
| 14:56.15 | sanaby | i guess not... oz 3.2's kernel doesn't seem to support ext3 |
| 14:57.03 | yeiazel | it really doesn't make sense |
| 14:57.42 | yeiazel | it would need to write bunch of data for the journal... |
| 14:58.30 | yeiazel | you wanted to reduce data written, and now you want to use a fs that needs really many data to be written... |
| 15:00.10 | kergoth | wonder how fast thatd wear out the card |
| 15:01.34 | yeiazel | too fast :) |
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| 15:40.10 | sanaby | good point :) |
| 15:40.33 | sanaby | so ext2 makes the most sense then |
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