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| 02:14.57 | mattcamp | Anyone considered using diet libc for the shell, init, and other small utilities and daemons? I figured that would reduce RAM usage somewhat. |
| 02:15.47 | kergoth | i'd rather go with uclibc myself |
| 02:17.12 | mattcamp | Because it's a shared lib? |
| 02:17.23 | kergoth | uhh |
| 02:17.32 | kergoth | you've never heard of static linking apparently. |
| 02:17.49 | kergoth | oh, nm |
| 02:17.49 | kergoth | heh |
| 02:17.52 | kergoth | misunderstood |
| 02:18.07 | kergoth | uclibc is incredibly full featured.. we could use it as a full fledged glibc replacement |
| 02:18.26 | kergoth | we'd lose bc, but i'm sick of being held back by sharp compat anyway |
| 02:18.44 | mattcamp | Sorry I was unclear. |
| 02:18.55 | mattcamp | And we'd lose compatibility with proprietary apps. |
| 02:19.01 | kergoth | that too |
| 02:19.19 | kergoth | at least the loss of bc due to a gcc2 -> gcc3, or qt2 -> qt3 can be solved via compatibility packages |
| 02:19.46 | kergoth | i dont think the uclibc ld-linux.so can link glibc binaries, so i dont think a glibc compat package would work |
| 02:20.46 | mattcamp | Yeah, I was thinking it would be better to link statically with diet libc for some utilities and then link with glibc for Qt apps, since statically linking Qt apps would prouce a lot of huge binaries. |
| 02:21.23 | mattcamp | That way we retain compatibility with proprietary apps that use glibc. Yeah, I know it's better if software is free, but some proprietary software (I'm thinking of speech synthesizers) really has no good free equivalent. |
| 02:21.55 | kergoth | in the qtopia/opie realm, i havent seen anything along those lines yet |
| 02:21.57 | kergoth | but point taken |
| 02:22.11 | mattcamp | I'm starting work on a Zaurus ROM for blind people, and I'm thinking I'll have to use a proprietary speech synthesizer. |
| 02:22.30 | kergoth | ah |
| 02:22.40 | kergoth | feel free to use OZ. just grab our buildsystem and produce some images |
| 02:22.52 | dmueller_ | OMG |
| 02:22.54 | dmueller_ | KG |
| 02:22.56 | dmueller_ | dude |
| 02:23.02 | kergoth | hey |
| 02:23.04 | kergoth | whats goin on man? |
| 02:23.08 | dmueller_ | hows texas? |
| 02:23.08 | kergoth | TI finally got me a fucking cubicle |
| 02:23.11 | kergoth | only took em 3 weeks |
| 02:23.18 | dmueller_ | fuck dude |
| 02:23.22 | dmueller_ | at www.wamu.com |
| 02:23.27 | dmueller_ | i did not have email and shit for like 3 weeks. |
| 02:23.46 | kergoth | yeah, pretty pathetic.. you'd think companies could be prepared |
| 02:23.59 | kergoth | especially when you give em a few weeks before starting |
| 02:24.22 | dmueller_ | congrats tho |
| 02:24.25 | dmueller_ | seriously |
| 02:24.37 | dmueller_ | oddly enough |
| 02:24.45 | dmueller_ | i'll be in texas here and therea |
| 02:25.03 | dmueller_ | for the bank |
| 02:25.33 | kergoth | thanks |
| 02:25.37 | kergoth | this is a damn nice cube |
| 02:25.47 | kergoth | next to the windows |
| 02:25.56 | kergoth | so can actually get sun. what a concept |
| 02:26.28 | dmueller_ | ahhahahahahaha |
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| 02:50.57 | mattcamp | I wonder why OZ has a php package. Does anyone actually run a web server on their Z? |
| 02:51.38 | Solar[X] | It'd be very handy for development. |
| 02:51.58 | Solar[X] | I can imagine I'll use it some day. |
| 02:52.15 | mattcamp | Doesn't look like OZ has a web server package though. |
| 02:52.21 | kergoth | nanoweb is a nice small web server that is *written* in php |
| 02:52.24 | kergoth | therefore it supports php |
| 02:52.28 | Solar[X] | And if it weren't such a waste, I'd set it up as a web server. |
| 02:52.32 | kergoth | also, php is a fine commandline scripting language |
| 02:52.46 | Solar[X] | There is an apache package on killefiz.de I think. |
| 02:52.53 | kergoth | apache is a waste |
| 02:52.59 | kergoth | there are plenty of small web servers |
| 02:53.04 | kergoth | boa, nanoweb, thttpd, etc |
| 02:53.04 | Solar[X] | Probably |
| 02:53.59 | mattcamp | Anyone looked at fnord? 18k statically linked binary with CGI support (well, 18k on the x86 anyway). |
| 02:54.47 | mattcamp | Actually fnord also requires another program called tcpserver which is about 46k statically linked with diet libc. |
| 02:55.42 | kergoth | i'm a fan of boa myself, when i dont need php |
| 02:55.45 | kergoth | never tried fnord |
| 02:56.16 | mattcamp | http://www.fefe.de/fnord/ |
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| 03:01.52 | dmueller_ | alright |
| 03:02.25 | dmueller_ | kg - nice to see you |
| 03:03.01 | kergoth | likewise |
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| 03:04.48 | mithro | php is a fairly good language if you want a template baased system |
| 03:04.57 | mithro | we use it in out code generation language |
| 03:06.29 | cyn_ | ya it's easier to understand/'read' than perl |
| 03:08.02 | mattcamp | I like Python too. |
| 03:09.27 | kergoth | I never touched it before, was always a perl junkie |
| 03:09.38 | kergoth | but recently schurig started writing the new OE buildsystem in it, so i had to learn it |
| 03:09.41 | kergoth | :) |
| 03:11.03 | mattcamp | The thing that got me interested in Python was when Red Hat rewrote their installer largely in Python. |
| 03:11.59 | cyn_ | I have a bud who I kinda bounce ideas off of and he does the same, we both have similar backgrounds and different ideas of what's worth doing, but we generally agree on stuff for implementing, and he touts python |
| 03:12.09 | cyn_ | so I need to poke at it |
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| 03:26.20 | Aun | How can I check what my SD card's file format is? |
| 03:26.41 | zap-zero | fdisk? |
| 03:27.10 | kergoth | fdisk shows partition table, not filesystem type |
| 03:28.30 | zap-zero | uh huh. |
| 03:28.37 | zap-zero | and what's in the partition table too, huh? :) |
| 03:29.00 | kergoth | zap-zero: linux doesnt pay attention to partition type in the dos partition table when mounting |
| 03:29.14 | mattcamp | Does an SD card even have a partition table? |
| 03:29.22 | Aun | also, I'm aout to install open Zaurus on mine. where can I find a guide to switch back to the old Qtopia if need be? |
| 03:29.27 | kergoth | zap-zero: it either blindly attempts mounts in the order of /proc/filesystems or /etc/filesystems, or looks at the magic # in the partition |
| 03:30.30 | zap-zero | well, ok |
| 03:31.18 | Aun | so what do I type at the prompt to see the file format? |
| 03:31.25 | kergoth | you dont |
| 03:31.32 | Aun | ... |
| 03:31.32 | kergoth | you can look at the type if its *mounted*, with 'mount' |
| 03:31.37 | kergoth | if its not mounted, you dont know |
| 03:31.50 | zap-zero | but you can try mount -t auto |
| 03:31.57 | kergoth | yep |
| 03:32.04 | Aun | I'll try it... |
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| 03:34.39 | Aun | thanks. It is fat. So I can install open zaurus. If I want to go back to Qtopia, how can I? |
| 03:35.58 | zap-zero | you need a cf, not sd, for flashing |
| 03:36.11 | kergoth | depends on the type of Z |
| 03:36.16 | zap-zero | oh |
| 03:36.21 | kergoth | c7x0 can flash from sd/cf |
| 03:36.22 | Aun | 5500. |
| 03:36.23 | kergoth | so can the 5600 |
| 03:36.25 | kergoth | 5500 is cf only |
| 03:36.53 | zap-zero | phew... so at least my crystal ball still works correctly :) |
| 03:36.59 | kergoth | hehe |
| 03:37.20 | Aun | ok, so then id there any way to run ZGCC on Qtopia? |
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| 05:55.19 | dougt | is there a way to flash a Zaurus to a new ROM without having a compactflash? |
| 05:57.38 | dougt | i am guessing not, but just trying to save a trip back to work. |
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| 06:44.18 | cyn_ | dougt: only c7x0 (maybe 5600 not positive on that) |
| 06:44.24 | cyn_ | and that'd be SD |
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| 12:20.14 | jot | hm, anyone have an issue where oz(3.2) locks up when resuming from a suspend ? |
| 12:29.39 | chouimat | morning |
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| 14:10.01 | kolla | which process deal with stylus input on the Z? |
| 14:10.05 | kolla | deals |
| 14:11.40 | kolla | I did a update/upgrade, but was silly enough to check what src I had active... turned out it was "unstable" and now stylus input doesnt work :P |
| 14:11.55 | kolla | silly enough _NOT_ to check what src I had active |
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| 14:16.31 | kolla | oh.. input is there |
| 14:16.42 | kolla | but it is flipped upside down... huh?? |
| 14:18.43 | kolla | oh well.. a simple recalibration fixed that :) |
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| 14:46.17 | mattcamp | I've noticed that .ipk files created for the Sharp ROM are gzip-compressed tar archives, while .ipk files created for OZ use ar as the archive format, like .deb packages. Why are there two formats for a .ipk file? |
| 14:47.50 | pb_ | The Sharp ROM is using an older version of ipkg. |
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| 15:04.39 | kolla | mattcamp: someone thought that chaning format was a brilliant idea :) |
| 15:04.48 | kolla | changing |
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| 16:13.36 | wardriver | so this is how a software install on the zauri goes for me, install libs and the goodie, run the goodie, it says it can't find lib.so.0 and when i go look, there is lib.so.0.8.2 so i rename it, create a symlink and then the goodie moves to the next lib problem |
| 16:13.47 | wardriver | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:13.55 | wardriver | to run the program as command to find out what lib dependancy it is missing? |
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| 16:24.59 | OctaneZ | WOW! getting 110k/s to my zaurus! |
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| 16:59.13 | mattcamp | How long does it take to start the first time with OZ? (I haven't bought a CF card yet, so I'm still using the Sharp ROM.) |
| 16:59.58 | OctaneZ | bout 2 min to flash, and then another 2 min to actually build everything and go to the gui |
| 17:01.02 | OctaneZ | been meaning to do this for a while |
| 17:01.39 | mattcamp | What does it have to "build" before bringing up the GUI the first time? |
| 17:01.42 | OctaneZ | the first time I installed, I didn't know the sd/mmc card was supposed to be fat16, so I have been walking around with a hobbled version for a couple weeks, but, didn't have time to fix it til now |
| 17:02.20 | OctaneZ | mattcamp: it basically looks at everything on the card, and I don't remember what the message says, it basically installs all the packages that come standard, before starting the qui |
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| 17:02.30 | OctaneZ | anyone tried tkcPhone? |
| 17:04.11 | OctaneZ | mattcamp: do you have an SD card? |
| 17:05.20 | mattcamp | No, don't have an SD card or a CF card yet. |
| 17:05.43 | mattcamp | I thought only a CF card was required to install OZ on the 5500. |
| 17:06.37 | OctaneZ | you do need a CF to install OZ |
| 17:06.57 | OctaneZ | I just find, that I use my SD card far more |
| 17:07.13 | OctaneZ | most of the time my CF slot is filled by a wifi adapter |
| 17:07.57 | mattcamp | I'm looking at tkcPhone now. Is it open source? |
| 17:08.37 | ljp_laptop | ha.. hahaha.. hahahahahahha... hahahahahahahaha |
| 17:08.52 | ljp_laptop | you so funny. tkcPhone... open source.. ha hahahaha hahahahaha |
| 17:09.02 | OctaneZ | mattcamp: no, it isn't |
| 17:09.38 | ljp_laptop | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:09.53 | OctaneZ | ljp_laptop: that it is |
| 17:10.15 | OctaneZ | weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, attempting ipkg upgrade |
| 17:11.13 | OctaneZ | ha |
| 17:11.15 | OctaneZ | s'okay |
| 17:11.21 | OctaneZ | what zaurus do you have/ |
| 17:11.44 | mattcamp | SL-5500 |
| 17:13.23 | OctaneZ | anyone know how long upgrade takes immediately after an install? |
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| 17:35.03 | OctaneZ | grrrrrrrr, forgot to turn off power down after X min! |
| 17:35.14 | OctaneZ | yeah, so you don't want ipkg upgrade to fail in the middle |
| 17:35.52 | ljp_laptop | mattcamp: heheh, thats ok. we make fun of everybody |
| 17:36.15 | mattcamp | But at least tkcPhone is inexpensive ($20 or so) |
| 17:38.54 | OctaneZ | dibs on his laptop! |
| 17:40.06 | mattcamp | Man, I don't think I've fallen down the stairs since I was 6 years old. |
| 17:40.28 | ljp_laptop | your not living dangerously, then |
| 17:41.04 | mattcamp | Nor do I want to. |
| 17:44.47 | ljp_laptop | scooobie doooobie doooooo!!!!!! |
| 17:44.47 | OctaneZ | ljp_laptop: keep in mind his birthday could have been yesterday |
| 17:44.47 | OctaneZ | 2 min 32 seconds from hitting the on button, to configuring input |
| 17:48.15 | mattcamp | OctaneZ: You mean my birthday? |
| 17:48.42 | OctaneZ | mattcamp: nm |
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| 19:16.51 | wardriver | when i install a new program it doesn't take effect until i run it from command line to find what it is missing in the libraries |
| 19:17.07 | wardriver | usally its an issue like the program is looking for lib.so.0 and i have lib.so.0.8.1 |
| 19:17.11 | wardriver | so i rename it and then it works |
| 19:17.18 | wardriver | but really, is that the correct way to install? |
| 19:18.51 | jdh41 | are you installing to non root location and not running ipkg-link? |
| 19:20.34 | wardriver | i'm usikng the ipk manager, the links get put into place, but the libs installed are like lib.so.0.8.1 and the programs are looking for lib.so.0 |
| 19:20.53 | jdh41 | are you using aqpkg or ipkg |
| 19:21.04 | jdh41 | if its ipkg you need to run ipkg-link afterwards |
| 19:21.12 | jdh41 | if you're not installing to root |
| 19:21.25 | wardriver | i'm using aqpkg |
| 19:23.47 | wardriver | in /etc/init.d... what do i modify with my samba mount commands to have them there when the unit reboots |
| 19:38.59 | wardriver | anyone here successfully spoof their mac address and still connect to thier network? |
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| 19:57.45 | OctaneZ | anyone know a way to allow input from a remote VNC client, I appear to be "stuck" in view only |
| 20:00.24 | mattcamp | OctaneZ: You using fbvncserver? |
| 20:00.31 | OctaneZ | mattcamp: yes |
| 20:01.01 | wardriver | i tried that vnc too , i was only able to view |
| 20:01.15 | wardriver | the screen shot said you could click on stuff, but i didn't see anything about it in vnc |
| 20:01.45 | mattcamp | I don't know if it works the same say in OZ, but in the fbvncserver package from Zaurus Software Index, there's an init script called /etc/rc.d/init.d/fbvncinput you have to run. |
| 20:02.05 | mattcamp | Then you have to tap the top-left and bottom-right corners of the touchscreen to calibrate the touchscreen simulation daemon. |
| 20:02.42 | OctaneZ | yup! |
| 20:02.56 | OctaneZ | /etc/init.d/fbvncinput |
| 20:03.53 | OctaneZ | okay |
| 20:04.01 | OctaneZ | script is there, but it doesn't work |
| 20:04.11 | mattcamp | What happens when you run it? |
| 20:04.40 | OctaneZ | # ./fbvncinput start |
| 20:04.41 | OctaneZ | Starting VNC Server input daemon: devices tssimd |
| 20:04.41 | OctaneZ | # |
| 20:04.58 | OctaneZ | then I fire up the fbvncserver, and no change |
| 20:05.27 | mattcamp | Maybe you have to restart Opie, I don't know. |
| 20:06.17 | mattcamp | Yeah, that's probably it. qpe only opens the touchscreen device when it starts, and now it actually has to open a FIFO instead of a character device. |
| 20:12.22 | OctaneZ | restart opie and poof it works! |
| 20:12.27 | OctaneZ | thanks mattcamp |
| 20:14.46 | mattcamp | No problem. |
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| 23:49.29 | cleverdra | is the 3.2 OZ initrd.bin compressed in any way? |
| 23:49.57 | mattcamp | It's a jffs2 file system, which uses compression. |
| 23:50.30 | cleverdra | Oh, not ext2fs. |
| 23:50.43 | mattcamp | Right. |
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| 23:51.57 | cleverdra | How do you mount such filesystems under the Z? 'mount -o loop -t jffs2 initrd.bin t' gives me "No such device" |
| 23:52.50 | mattcamp | What Zaurus ROM are you running now? |
| 23:53.39 | cleverdra | Sharp ROM 3.1 (-- the initrd in question is OZ, as I said. I've a 5500 and a 5000D; the OZ ROM will go on the 5000D for now.) |
| 23:54.45 | mattcamp | The Sharp ROM uses cramfs (which is why it's truly read-only unlike OZ), so to mount the OZ filesystem on your Zaurus you'll need to find a jffs2 kernel module or cross-compile it. |
| 23:55.36 | cleverdra | ah, OK. I'll flash the 5000D and try to mount this under it =) |
| 23:56.08 | mattcamp | Yeah, that ought to work. |