| 00:00.01 | davoid | ?? |
| 00:00.04 | fishy | this bruce perens is really sucessful |
| 00:00.17 | kergoth | yep |
| 00:03.14 | *** join/#openzaurus tru (tru@debian.as) |
| 00:06.28 | elron | hello |
| 00:06.42 | davoid | is it normal to have a lot of 'failed to create link' messages ? |
| 00:06.44 | davoid | ext2 fs |
| 00:06.55 | elron | I have a history question: why does the z linux distribution use ipkg instead of dpkg ? |
| 00:07.31 | elron | davoid: that's in case you moved your root files to the SD card and attempt to use "sd card" as installation medium for new packages |
| 00:07.31 | kergoth | becuase dpkg+apt isnt suitable for a resource constrained environment |
| 00:08.04 | elron | kergoth: can you elaborate a little ? |
| 00:08.13 | kergoth | both in disk storage and memory usage |
| 00:08.14 | davoid | elron, will my apps work or reflash time? |
| 00:08.16 | kergoth | not to mention |
| 00:08.23 | kergoth | apt requires that it obtain every package and *then* install |
| 00:08.30 | kergoth | it doesnt download, install, etc on a per package basis |
| 00:08.34 | elron | davoid: they should work (they work here :) |
| 00:08.42 | elron | kergoth: true. |
| 00:08.50 | kergoth | busybox has dpkg |
| 00:08.53 | kergoth | which is pretty cool |
| 00:08.57 | kergoth | but there's no equivalent for apt |
| 00:09.03 | davoid | elron, chose every package in the list in stable wonder if 256mb is nuff |
| 00:09.05 | kergoth | which would leave us definately lacking in functionality |
| 00:09.19 | elron | indeed |
| 00:09.21 | elron | my question was strictly constrained to the choice of a package format |
| 00:09.28 | kergoth | format is independent |
| 00:09.31 | kergoth | .ipk = .deb |
| 00:09.39 | elron | interchangeable ? |
| 00:09.42 | kergoth | ipkg can install .deb's. |
| 00:09.49 | kergoth | that answer the question? |
| 00:09.50 | kergoth | heheh |
| 00:09.53 | elron | yes |
| 00:10.07 | elron | however I miss dpkg-buildpackage |
| 00:10.10 | kergoth | the only thing in question is the tool, and to a certain extent the data format |
| 00:10.13 | kergoth | dpkg-buildpackage is crap |
| 00:10.14 | elron | for ipks's |
| 00:10.22 | kergoth | doesnt come anywhere near the functionality we need |
| 00:10.28 | kergoth | we use our own build infrastructure |
| 00:10.41 | elron | I know |
| 00:10.43 | elron | I have a copy |
| 00:10.45 | kergoth | though a7r does apparently have a dpkg-buildpackage that can output .ipks |
| 00:11.02 | kergoth | the familiar folks rely on native builds almost exclusivfely |
| 00:11.04 | pb_ | yeah, I have one of those too. should try to push it into debian proper. |
| 00:11.07 | elron | however for independent developers the build infrastructure is not easy to understand at first |
| 00:11.11 | kergoth | pb_: thatd be cool |
| 00:11.20 | kergoth | elron: which is why its going away |
| 00:11.29 | kergoth | elron: buildroot is a large hack, not a properly designed solution |
| 00:11.45 | elron | I could indeed observe this :p |
| 00:11.54 | kergoth | the new infrastructure is just about at the point where I'd consider it a functional replacement |
| 00:11.57 | elron | what is the future architecture ? |
| 00:12.02 | kergoth | uh |
| 00:12.04 | kergoth | openzaurus.org |
| 00:12.07 | kergoth | has a link to |
| 00:12.09 | kergoth | openembedded.org |
| 00:12.17 | kergoth | which has the information |
| 00:12.22 | elron | thankx |
| 00:12.27 | elron | I'll have a look at it... |
| 00:12.39 | kergoth | extensive brainstorming on the wiki when we laid out our needs and made policy decisions on the system |
| 00:12.46 | elron | ah yes |
| 00:12.48 | elron | I could see that |
| 00:12.49 | kergoth | the actual development on it is in the openembedded.bkbits.net repositories |
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| 00:13.04 | kergoth | oe contains the infrastructure proper, packages contains the package metadata |
| 00:13.49 | ugarit | is there Z software to initiate syncing ? |
| 00:14.21 | kergoth | not afaik |
| 00:15.20 | kergoth | elron: if you know python and want to contribute, feel free. the todo list is still quite long on the new system |
| 00:15.40 | elron | I know python and am willing to contribute. |
| 00:15.54 | elron | However, I do not have enough disk space yet to build the world |
| 00:16.02 | elron | this is why I still couldn't start working seriously at Z dev |
| 00:16.05 | kergoth | there's no world to b uild |
| 00:16.08 | kergoth | in the new system |
| 00:16.15 | elron | that sounds like good news. |
| 00:16.18 | kergoth | cause very very few packages have been converted to the new format |
| 00:16.27 | kergoth | we only have dropbear, ipkg, glibc, and a couple others |
| 00:16.38 | kergoth | basically for testing purposes, to stress the system |
| 00:17.44 | elron | I see |
| 00:18.18 | elron | btw why this choice of python ? |
| 00:18.25 | kergoth | and dropbear doesnt compile, since the new system doesnt handle supplying test results for a target os-arch for the configure run yet |
| 00:18.27 | elron | compared to e.g. perl |
| 00:18.32 | kergoth | because the new infrastructure is based on portage |
| 00:18.35 | kergoth | gentoo's system |
| 00:18.44 | elron | ah |
| 00:19.05 | kergoth | we added crosscompilation capability, and proceded to make it more and more flexible and extensible |
| 00:19.11 | kergoth | and that about brings us up to date |
| 00:19.14 | kergoth | heh |
| 00:19.33 | elron | nifty :) |
| 00:19.35 | elron | well |
| 00:19.42 | elron | I'd like to ask a question on a totally orthogonal topic |
| 00:20.06 | kergoth | feel free |
| 00:20.41 | davoid | you're joking me... new infrastructure is portage? aark.. |
| 00:20.56 | kergoth | i said its based on portage |
| 00:21.06 | elron | given that having only a few official/known/active developers is not a viable long-term solution for OZ nor OE |
| 00:21.16 | elron | what are the plans to broaden OE dev. accessibility ? |
| 00:22.00 | kergoth | The first step was the move to a more flexible build infrastructure to cut down the learning curve for new developers |
| 00:22.14 | elron | acknowledged. |
| 00:22.25 | kergoth | Next on my list, is finally selecting the new OpenEmbedded logo, and trademarking it. |
| 00:22.56 | kergoth | At that point, I'll probably seek companies to push its use in corporate produced devices |
| 00:23.16 | elron | any involvement from sharp expected ? |
| 00:23.19 | kergoth | probably play it by ear. I have a lot of shit on my plate at my current position at the moment |
| 00:23.25 | kergoth | doubtful |
| 00:24.16 | elron | hmm |
| 00:24.39 | kergoth | however, there are folks that will push the project and work on its behalf. They're probably better at that than I |
| 00:24.51 | kergoth | I'm more coder than businessperson, by nature |
| 00:25.05 | elron | I see |
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| 00:26.31 | kergoth | elron: also, once the build infrastructure is in place.. |
| 00:26.51 | kergoth | elron: its flexibility really gives us potential for it to be the means by which we start coordinating the various open source embedded distros |
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| 00:27.00 | elron | I see |
| 00:27.01 | kergoth | elron: there are quite a few currently, and none are working together. its a waste of effort |
| 00:27.14 | kergoth | emdebian, familiar, OZ, just to list a few |
| 00:27.37 | elron | yes |
| 00:27.38 | kergoth | not to mention all the folks using buildroot derivatives for images |
| 00:27.53 | kergoth | like the folks who work on the tuxscreen, or webpal, et cetera |
| 00:28.47 | tarball | I've extracted opera from my sharp rom and installed it on OZ3 but no images appear on the buttons when I run it? Any ideas? |
| 00:29.14 | kergoth | ipkg files [packagename] |
| 00:31.05 | tarball | All the image files seem to be present! |
| 00:31.25 | kergoth | did you install from commandline or gui? |
| 00:31.30 | kergoth | did you restart opie after installing? |
| 00:32.32 | tarball | installed from gui, I have restarted opie, I'll try that now, back in a minute! |
| 00:33.24 | elron | duh |
| 00:34.18 | elron | upgrading to opie 0.9.9 erased my ttf-enriched fontdir |
| 00:34.20 | elron | dumb thing |
| 00:34.44 | kergoth | yeah, update-qtdir is rather basic and minimal atm |
| 00:34.54 | kergoth | feel free to teach it something about ttfs |
| 00:34.59 | kergoth | its just a shell script |
| 00:35.44 | elron | I'll think about it |
| 00:36.01 | kergoth | s/qtdir/qtfontdir/ |
| 00:36.02 | kergoth | whatever |
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| 00:42.29 | tarball | Ok, I tried rebooting my Zaurus after installing Opera6 in OZ3.2 but now it won't boot!??! |
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| 00:59.24 | elron | hmm |
| 00:59.44 | elron | is usbd-common useful on OZ 3.2 stable ? |
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| 01:21.42 | jebb | has anyone here connected their pc to the internet through their zaurus's wifi connection, if so how? |
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| 03:09.12 | davoid | how come my network applet doesn't show anything anymore>? |
| 03:25.52 | fdask | anyone know where i can get the program pyuic to convert QT Designer files into python code?? |
| 03:26.07 | fdask | riverbank says it comes with their python ipks... but i have installed all those, and no pyuic. |
| 03:26.08 | fdask | :[ |
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| 09:53.40 | djr | so the problem with upgrading busybox is that it does not relink everything? |
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| 10:09.51 | fdask | i had a problem upgrading busybox |
| 10:10.05 | fdask | i wasn't even thinking when i went to do it... and uninstalled the old one first. |
| 10:10.06 | fdask | lol |
| 10:17.29 | djr | hehe |
| 10:24.46 | djr | i relinked all the files |
| 10:24.49 | djr | maybe it'll work now |
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| 10:28.20 | djr | dog |
| 10:28.21 | djr | er |
| 10:28.21 | djr | doh |
| 10:28.23 | djr | forgot some |
| 10:28.51 | noidd | having issues? |
| 10:31.36 | djr | noidd: nah, upgraded busybox, just relinking all the files back to busybox now |
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| 10:40.05 | noidd | ah, cool |
| 10:45.52 | carbon | is it possible for me to get ahold of the original opieplayer 1? |
| 10:46.05 | carbon | the one that comes with oz stable is marked 'early beta', and it acts it... |
| 10:46.29 | carbon | hmm... i guess this is more of an #opie question... |
| 10:51.30 | djr | # /bin/busybox |
| 10:51.31 | djr | BusyBox v0.61.pre (2003.06.20-18:10+0000) multi-call binary |
| 10:51.33 | djr | works flawlessly now |
| 10:55.00 | BaTfInK | getting really pi$$ed off with OZ3.2 and usb/cradle suspend issues |
| 10:57.47 | carbon | i gave up on the cradle |
| 10:58.02 | carbon | it's much faster to just use a card to transfer data back and forth anyways |
| 10:58.19 | BaTfInK | no money, no card |
| 10:58.20 | carbon | less elegant, but faster... |
| 10:59.22 | BaTfInK | I also have serialIO USB cable, this is the biggest thing that fecks me off with OZ, enough to go back to sharp, I need a PDA as well as a toy |
| 10:59.59 | carbon | which usb/cradle suspend issues do you mean? |
| 11:01.12 | BaTfInK | if connected to the usb/cardle then goes into suspend. You disconnect then start up again it either locks up, resulting flipping the switch at the back, of crashes out of OPIE to the command prompt |
| 11:02.17 | BaTfInK | last time I installed USBD-COMMON and it worked, though this time I had problems with dependencies :( |
| 11:02.35 | carbon | well, you can always kick aqpkg into ignoring deps... |
| 11:02.47 | carbon | which deps did it specify? |
| 11:03.03 | BaTfInK | did not work -force-depends |
| 11:03.08 | BaTfInK | had to install |
| 11:04.43 | BaTfInK | trying again, just reflashed |
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| 11:44.00 | BaTfInK | why when I have update my arch.cong with arch all 1 |
| 11:44.00 | BaTfInK | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:44.00 | BaTfInK | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:44.00 | BaTfInK | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:44.00 | BaTfInK | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:44.00 | BaTfInK | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:44.02 | BaTfInK | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:44.04 | BaTfInK | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:44.06 | BaTfInK | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:44.08 | BaTfInK | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:44.10 | BaTfInK | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:44.12 | BaTfInK | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:44.15 | BaTfInK | does IPKG -print architecture display them? |
| 11:44.22 | BaTfInK | only shows arm? |
| 11:47.27 | BaTfInK | so dead in here |
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| 12:46.57 | jaku | hi |
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| 16:42.53 | Matthew_I | how can I use the ir port on my laptop to send and recieve data to my Z |
| 16:57.34 | ljp_laptop | what os on lappie? |
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| 17:41.54 | Matthew_I | linux |
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| 17:47.55 | Matthew_I | is there pico or nano for the Z |
| 17:48.20 | kergoth | nano's available |
| 17:48.21 | kergoth | as is pico |
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| 18:10.28 | emacsen | I'm trying to decide on either buying an OpenZaurus or a Neuros Audio player. Do any of the handhelds have Free players and enough storage? |
| 18:12.22 | kergoth | well, the storage is limited. you can get 512mb or even 1024mb cf cards, but they're expensive |
| 18:12.38 | kergoth | you cant just grab a 20gb hd and hook it up like you can with a neuros |
| 18:12.46 | kergoth | players, yeah, there are plenty available |
| 18:13.07 | emacsen | well I'm thinking the 128 Neuros player is $200 |
| 18:14.04 | kergoth | you can get a 128mb sd for pretty cheap, plus you can grab a wireless card and do warwalking or whatever |
| 18:14.16 | kergoth | far more powerful |
| 18:14.20 | emacsen | sd? |
| 18:14.25 | kergoth | secure digital |
| 18:14.48 | emacsen | do any of the Zaurus use pcmcia or flash cards? |
| 18:15.12 | kergoth | they have both CF and SD slots |
| 18:15.23 | kergoth | CF is pcmcia (not cardbus) with a different formfactor |
| 18:15.50 | emacsen | what's the recommended meduim end model? |
| 18:15.58 | emacsen | I don't want to spend more than, say $350 |
| 18:16.21 | kergoth | then all the fancy new japanese models are out, and probably the 5600 as well ,but you can get a 5500 for dirt cheap nowadays |
| 18:16.24 | kergoth | look around |
| 18:16.51 | emacsen | and I can download the openzaurus distro, which is Debian based? |
| 18:16.57 | kergoth | yep |
| 18:17.14 | kergoth | uses a different package manager for resource reasons, but all its distributionisms are the same |
| 18:17.18 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:18.02 | emacsen | are there vorbis and or speex players? |
| 18:18.22 | kergoth | vorbis yeah, i dunno about speex |
| 18:20.18 | ljp_laptop | no speex |
| 18:20.39 | emacsen | damn. that would have been a big deciding factor |
| 18:21.31 | ljp_laptop | bother some devs for speex and it might become reality |
| 18:21.47 | emacsen | all two of them? :) |
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| 18:21.59 | de | hello |
| 18:23.18 | de | i´d like to know if there is an openzaurus image with opie 0.9.9 and where to get |
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| 18:24.45 | ljp_laptop | emacsen: well, if you speak to the right one or two... |
| 18:24.54 | ljp_laptop | they may write something |
| 18:27.40 | de | does the silence mean there is none with the new opie or nobody knows ? |
| 18:28.05 | kergoth | means nobody knows, or everyone is busy with other things |
| 18:28.54 | ljp_laptop | dont know if anyone has made one yet |
| 18:29.54 | de | thx for your answer, i got probs updating opie so a flash image would be best (i know it may be the wrong way to solve the problem) |
| 18:34.03 | Matthew_I | from where can I get nano and pico |
| 18:35.12 | ljp_laptop | did you try looking on zsi? |
| 18:35.15 | Matthew_I | also is beamster or an equiv. avaliable in OZ |
| 18:35.28 | Matthew_I | ljp_laptop: no but ill do that now |
| 18:35.48 | kergoth | nano is in the oz feeds, isnt it? |
| 18:35.53 | kergoth | pico isnt due to licensing |
| 18:36.43 | Matthew_I | which one |
| 18:37.18 | kergoth | what? |
| 18:37.39 | Matthew_I | which feed |
| 18:37.47 | kergoth | i dunno, go look. |
| 18:37.55 | kergoth | there's only 2 to look through. testing = unstable right now |
| 18:40.48 | ljp_laptop | I thought there was the scooby-do feed also |
| 18:42.44 | Matthew_I | I don't see it |
| 18:43.59 | emacsen | does the Zaurus have a firewire or USB port? |
| 18:46.25 | de | which zaurus ? the sl5500 has a USB-Port but CLient-only |
| 18:47.01 | de | i am not sure but a firewire port could be available with an CF-Phreipal Card |
| 18:47.12 | de | Pheripal or so... |
| 18:47.14 | emacsen | what is client only? |
| 18:47.28 | emacsen | I'm thinking if I get a Zaurus, can I take a USB hard drive with me |
| 18:47.46 | emacsen | oh it's only a client, I grok |
| 18:47.51 | de | u cant connect other USB-Devices to the zaurus... like an mouse or so, u only can connect it to an PC |
| 18:48.02 | de | sorry for the bad english |
| 18:48.48 | emacsen | it's okay. Sorry for my not speaking whatever language you speak (probably German) |
| 18:49.14 | de | but wait iirc there are several USB-CF-Cards available, yes german |
| 18:49.42 | emacsen | yeah but if I want to transfer between the CF card and a portable hard drive... ;) |
| 18:50.03 | de | thats a problem, else u could use a MMC Card |
| 18:50.16 | emacsen | MMC? |
| 18:50.53 | de | multimedia card... |
| 18:51.42 | emacsen | wow huge price jump between 5500 and 5600 |
| 18:51.43 | de | 128 MB cost around 35euro, which is a fair price i think |
| 18:52.11 | emacsen | really? wow that's a good price |
| 18:53.23 | emacsen | a 5500 is $390, a 5600 is $480 |
| 18:54.38 | *** join/#openzaurus darkenigma (darkenigma@sdn-ap-001njpennP0195.dialsprint.net) |
| 18:55.27 | ljp_laptop | speex seems doable, in cbr mode... vbr might be slow, depending |
| 18:56.07 | emacsen | cbr? |
| 18:56.13 | kergoth | constant bitrate |
| 18:56.18 | kergoth | vs variable |
| 18:56.18 | ljp_laptop | constannt bit ratge |
| 18:56.21 | emacsen | ah |
| 18:56.29 | ljp_laptop | has nice features, voice activation |
| 18:56.36 | emacsen | too many acronyms :) |
| 18:56.53 | emacsen | ljp_laptop: yeah. I really like Speex. It's perfect for radio, audiobooks, etc |
| 18:57.08 | emacsen | anyway I have to go to a meeting, I'll bbl |
| 18:57.12 | ljp_laptop | and nice docs |
| 18:57.26 | kergoth | ljp_laptop: going to write us a notetaking app that combines voice notes, drawpad scratching, and textedit input? |
| 18:57.32 | kergoth | ljp_laptop: we could use one |
| 18:58.04 | ljp_laptop | very nice docs. |
| 18:58.16 | darkenigma | hmm.... does anyone have kpp working? i have no idea how to bring up the dialup interface. |
| 19:00.01 | *** join/#openzaurus nichos (~nichos@52.44.33.65.cfl.rr.com) |
| 19:01.26 | nichos | Hey all - any why my Z wont turn on? i have the battery button in the right position, power plugged in, the battery light comes on |
| 19:01.40 | nichos | oh weird |
| 19:01.43 | nichos | nm, just came on;) |
| 19:08.22 | de | 390$ for an SL5500 ? thats expensive i paid 299euro |
| 19:08.49 | de | oh, he´s gone |
| 19:24.56 | *** part/#openzaurus de (~de@pD9EAA853.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:44.48 | Matthew_I | where can I get the files I need to install opie-remote, aqpkg is complaning about broken deps |
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| 20:01.29 | Matthew_I | what is the difference from opie-mediaplayer and opie-mediaplayer2? |
| 20:01.54 | ljp_laptop | op2 uses xine and can play divx |
| 20:02.06 | ljp_laptop | op1 will someday day divx |
| 20:03.21 | Matthew_I | can opie-mail2 0.9.9 do pop? |
| 20:13.29 | ljp_laptop | mailit does pop |
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