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| 03:11.21 | kc8apf | any suggestions for getting a dcf-660w working with openzaurus? |
| 03:27.12 | lpotter | should just work, I think |
| 03:27.39 | lpotter | I have one, but it started not working all that well after i used it a month or two |
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| 03:54.23 | Reddog | what's a dcf-660w? |
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| 04:18.51 | kc8apf | lpotter: it seems that the connector is bad on the one I bought |
| 04:19.10 | kc8apf | if you insert it with pressure applied to just one side, it works properly, but letting go of it, the Z locks up |
| 04:19.47 | lpotter | ya, mine has a bit of that problem also. although oz doesnt crash - its just stops ACK |
| 04:20.04 | lpotter | I dont recommend these |
| 04:20.18 | lpotter | I have an ambicom wifi cf card that kicks ass |
| 04:20.47 | lpotter | if you just bought it, can you try to take it back and get a different one? |
| 04:22.28 | kc8apf | yeah, i'm gonna take it back and get a linksys wcf12 |
| 04:25.42 | kc8apf | hmm, why is there a gdb package, but not a gcc? |
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| 04:46.13 | treke|home | kc8apf: because gdb fits on an zaurus better? |
| 04:46.30 | kc8apf | true |
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| 06:31.30 | warlock | hi |
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| 07:10.03 | cleverdra | how can I beam files to a palm device? My Z keeps sending everything as a memo -- I just want to copy an application over without going through a lot of trouble on my desktop. |
| 07:13.30 | cleverdra | sigh, back to the lot of trouble. |
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| 10:44.30 | __andras__ | Hi |
| 10:44.55 | __andras__ | I need some help with the boot process (low-level) on the Z C750, can anybody help? |
| 10:50.12 | ljp | maybe |
| 10:51.01 | ljp | whats wrong |
| 10:51.32 | __andras__ | nothing's wrong really, just wanted to make sure i have the right idea of what goes on when the machine boots |
| 10:51.41 | ljp | ahh. ok |
| 10:51.46 | keta | morning all |
| 10:51.52 | ljp | hi |
| 10:52.00 | ljp | cept its not morning |
| 10:52.02 | __andras__ | first, code from the non-writeable rom gets executed, which then runs the NOR, is that right? |
| 10:52.12 | __andras__ | it's near 11am over here... |
| 10:52.31 | keta | ljp: ok, good localtime :) |
| 10:52.50 | ljp | hmm. my clock is farked |
| 10:53.00 | keta | 11:52 |
| 10:53.04 | __andras__ | just got my c750 in the post btw, flashing oz as we speak |
| 10:53.11 | keta | shit, it's actually not morning |
| 10:53.55 | ljp | its evening here |
| 10:54.02 | ljp | 20:53 |
| 10:55.36 | __andras__ | ahhhh! both leds are flashing, nothing happens... i must have done something wrong |
| 10:55.57 | __andras__ | anyway, ljp, can you confirm what i said above? |
| 10:56.32 | ljp | hmm. I think so. |
| 10:57.23 | __andras__ | so then NOR functions like the BIOS in a PC and boots the kernel from NAND, is that right? |
| 10:58.48 | __andras__ | i have an english diagnostic menu, shouldn't it be all japanese? |
| 11:01.25 | ljp | it boots Sharps kernel, then boots the system kernel |
| 11:01.52 | ljp | you mean the 3 page menu with all kinds of testing and stuff |
| 11:02.14 | ljp | the D+M thing |
| 11:02.41 | __andras__ | do you know where these kernels are located? on the 5500, there used to be 1mb allocated for the kernel, is that still the case on the 750, or does it load the kernel from the linux filesystem? |
| 11:02.48 | __andras__ | yes, i'm talking about the d+m menus |
| 11:03.16 | ljp | there are two kernels on the c7x0. one doesnt get flashed |
| 11:03.23 | ljp | http://externe.net/zaurus/forum/viewtopic.php?t=518&highlight=unbrick |
| 11:03.37 | ljp | might be interesting to you, if you havent seen that |
| 11:04.01 | __andras__ | i probably have but i've forgotten |
| 11:04.10 | ljp | this past week, I had to reflash the NAND on a c700 |
| 11:05.34 | __andras__ | hmmm. isn't NAND the regular flash memory and NOR the "BIOS"? of is it the other way round? |
| 11:07.19 | ljp | NOR cant be writen to, I think |
| 11:07.34 | ljp | NAND can, cause mine got farked |
| 11:08.11 | pb_ | nor is the bootloader, so writing to it probably a bad plan. |
| 11:08.57 | __andras__ | ok, so by NAND you mean the secondary one -- the one that's writeable but not usually overwritten when you flash your OS |
| 11:09.02 | pb_ | unless you're 1337 bootloader h4x0r, of course |
| 11:09.15 | pb_ | __andras__: NAND is the main bank of flash, where the OS lives. |
| 11:09.25 | __andras__ | ok, so what's NOR then? |
| 11:09.34 | pb_ | <pb_> nor is the bootloader, so writing to it probably a bad plan. |
| 11:09.47 | __andras__ | ok |
| 11:09.55 | ljp | there is a diagram of all that somehwere |
| 11:11.26 | __andras__ | ok. so NOR contains a sharp kernel that's only there to load a kernel from NAND, right? |
| 11:12.30 | ljp | I think it uses angel bootloader |
| 11:14.35 | ljp | somewhere on google is the diagram of all this |
| 11:16.25 | __andras__ | ah, got something. <A HREF="http://pocketworkstation.org/files/recover/README-flash-recover.txt">http://pocketworkstation.org/files/recover/README-flash-recover.txt</A> |
| 11:16.43 | __andras__ | NOR is not overwriteable |
| 11:19.01 | __andras__ | so still back to the original question -- where is the linux kernel located that in the end runs the os: in NAND or in flash? |
| 11:20.05 | ljp | just above kernel1 |
| 11:25.00 | __andras__ | i.e. in NAND? |
| 11:33.09 | ljp | yes, I think so |
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| 11:36.14 | __andras__ | so, in principle, it would be possible to create a NAND image that would work like a LILO on x86 (or aboot on Alpha, even better), to give a choice of kernels to boot? |
| 11:39.06 | ljp | dont know if you can have two bootloaders |
| 11:41.06 | keta | ls |
| 11:41.32 | keta | uhm, freudian |
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| 11:50.56 | __andras__ | why not? one loads the other |
| 11:51.08 | __andras__ | this would give one much more flexibility |
| 11:51.55 | __andras__ | in fact, one could then flash a NAND exactly once. the kernel in there would offer a full console which is even capable of network boots via usbd0 |
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| 11:52.08 | DarkSSJ | hi all |
| 11:52.16 | __andras__ | that would make linux (every flavour of it) as easy to install as on Alphas with the SRM console |
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| 11:59.25 | __andras__ | aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh, oz experimental doesn't seem to work ok on the c750... loads of jffs2 warnings! |
| 12:18.16 | DarkSSJ | can I run a linux distro on a Dell X3? |
| 12:31.46 | __andras__ | is it possible that the shepherd kernel in <A HREF="http://www.openzaurus.org/unofficial/experimental/shepherd/">http://www.openzaurus.org/unofficial/experimental/shepherd/</A> is currently broken??? |
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| 14:03.47 | Rischwa|5r | hey ho |
| 14:04.23 | Rischwa|5r | can anyone of you tell me, how to get the lastet opie stuff installed / build my own initrd.bin file with the newest packages?? |
| 14:40.23 | __andras__ | why do c750 and c760 need different oz-experimental images, btw? |
| 14:47.11 | __andras__ | i'm running the c760 image from oz unofficial-experimental on a c750 because the c750 one doesn't work... |
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| 15:47.18 | __andras__ | what is the updater.sh file needed for flashing, and how do i create it? |
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| 16:36.10 | __andras__ | are there any user-space programs for building initrd.bin, or do i have to create them using mtdram and mtdblock on a desktop linux? |
| 16:38.01 | Twiun | the oz buildroot is run as a normal user so I'd imagine it uses user-space programs ;) |
| 16:38.11 | __andras__ | thanks |
| 16:46.48 | Twiun | check out the make image target and the makefile in output/ |
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| 17:04.15 | FPCat | I'm having trouble compiling OZ... In libxine, I get demux_ogg.c:39: vorbis/codec.h: No such file or directory |
| 17:08.59 | madeddie | you got the vorbis libs laying around? |
| 17:10.05 | FPCat | I can't find that file anywhere on my file system? Do I need to install that package for by PC? |
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| 17:20.35 | madeddie | well i know it's in the vorbis libs, but i don't know how the oe buildsystem works |
| 17:24.23 | FPCat | It looks like the patches aren't being applied.... |
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| 17:47.37 | NoMercy | Ok, *prods for signs of life* |
| 17:47.47 | NoMercy | I'm trying to get testing to work |
| 17:58.43 | NoMercy | Cannot find font definition file /opt/QtPalmtop/lib/fonts/fontdir - is $QTDIR set correctly? |
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| 18:05.30 | NoMercy | Ohh, humm |
| 18:06.17 | ShALLaX|Laptop | why is OZ 3.1rc31 still available? |
| 18:06.29 | ShALLaX|Laptop | is there somethin special about that version?... more stable? |
| 18:07.28 | NoMercy | no idea :) |
| 18:07.40 | ShALLaX|Laptop | heh |
| 18:07.50 | ShALLaX|Laptop | well, im happy |
| 18:07.54 | ShALLaX|Laptop | got a 256mb sd card |
| 18:07.59 | NoMercy | I'm still boggling over testing, am I supposed to select both stable and testing feeds? |
| 18:08.02 | ShALLaX|Laptop | now i need to reencode all my futuramas to fit on that |
| 18:08.10 | NoMercy | I could only afford a 128 :/ |
| 18:08.17 | NoMercy | heh |
| 18:08.27 | ShALLaX|Laptop | id have got 512 if i didnt need to fix the right driveshaft on my car |
| 18:08.37 | ShALLaX|Laptop | i select all the feeds |
| 18:08.40 | ShALLaX|Laptop | then pick what i want from each |
| 18:08.50 | NoMercy | probably safest |
| 18:09.09 | ShALLaX|Laptop | also, what is the "-debug" for on the kernels? |
| 18:09.09 | NoMercy | I'm missing shedloads of fonts and images |
| 18:09.13 | ShALLaX|Laptop | just extra verbosity? |
| 18:09.28 | NoMercy | I'd imagine it includes kernel debugging symbols, ergo run slow as shit :) |
| 18:09.47 | ShALLaX|Laptop | oops, thats in the faq |
| 18:09.47 | ShALLaX|Laptop | hehe |
| 18:10.27 | ShALLaX|Laptop | aah, it just shoves debug messages to the framebuffer |
| 18:11.04 | NoMercy | Ahh, guess that'd just be increadably annoying |
| 18:11.10 | ShALLaX|Laptop | yep |
| 18:11.22 | ShALLaX|Laptop | i thought it might have just made booting up more verbose, which is what id like |
| 18:11.30 | NoMercy | I wanna know if were moving to a 2.6 kernel anytime :) |
| 18:11.51 | NoMercy | And who to put a tazer to, if the process needs speeding up |
| 18:12.12 | NoMercy | Aye, I'd like to get rid of the logo and then .... |
| 18:12.40 | ShALLaX|Laptop | hehe |
| 18:12.47 | ShALLaX|Laptop | kergoth seems to be workin on the kernel# |
| 18:12.50 | ShALLaX|Laptop | hes on 2.4.21 |
| 18:14.17 | NoMercy | Not bad, I wanna 2.6 though :) |
| 18:14.34 | NoMercy | hell 2.4.21's newer than my laptop :) |
| 18:16.01 | ShALLaX|Laptop | hee |
| 18:16.07 | ShALLaX|Laptop | 2.4.21 is what my xbox uses |
| 18:16.15 | ShALLaX|Laptop | i should get round to updating to 2.4.22, but cant be bothered |
| 18:17.27 | NoMercy | There was a time when I had kernels installed and running within a hour of release |
| 18:17.45 | NoMercy | then I grew up and said, who cares, it works as it is, I'll do it later |
| 18:18.00 | __andras__ | someone here told me about an open-source sdmmc driver -- anyone know about that? |
| 18:19.00 | ShALLaX|Laptop | nope |
| 18:19.04 | ShALLaX|Laptop | best bet would be freshmeat |
| 18:19.58 | NoMercy | It might take some reverse engineering to work out how to get a SD card to work |
| 18:20.14 | NoMercy | MMC support I think is available |
| 18:20.33 | pb_ | __andras__: handhelds.org kernel has open source sd. |
| 18:21.12 | ShALLaX|Laptop | whats so special about SD... is it encrypted? |
| 18:21.19 | NoMercy | think so |
| 18:21.25 | ShALLaX|Laptop | hmm |
| 18:21.25 | ShALLaX|Laptop | doh |
| 18:22.04 | NoMercy | I went MMC anyway, so I don't care :) |
| 18:22.10 | __andras__ | thanks pb_, i shall have a look |
| 18:27.03 | __andras__ | pb_: isn't that ipaq-specific? |
| 18:27.41 | __andras__ | NoMercy: you still need a module for that, doesn't make a difference whether it's sd or mmc if the host chip isn't supported |
| 18:28.37 | NoMercy | I know I still need a driver for it of some sort |
| 18:28.59 | NoMercy | But there's more a chance of a MMC driver finding its way into an official kernel source than a SD one |
| 18:29.06 | NoMercy | and I'm a zelot for GNU software |
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| 18:30.24 | __andras__ | why should there be an mmc driver and no sd driver when both sd and mmc are handled by the same chip? ... |
| 18:31.13 | NoMercy | At a random guess, the SD driver would involve patented tech |
| 18:31.26 | NoMercy | due to the secure part of it |
| 18:32.27 | jrbald01 | hmmmm... anyone happen to have a recently built image? i'm lazy and dont wanna wait on buildroot hehe |
| 18:33.32 | __andras__ | pb_: are you referring to the files in kernel/drivers/mmc/? |
| 18:36.56 | TheMasterMind1 | __andras__: quite probably |
| 18:38.15 | __andras__ | so is that one capable of replacing the sharp sdmmc module? |
| 18:39.18 | ShALLaX|Laptop | shallax@Xbox buildroot $ make |
| 18:39.18 | ShALLaX|Laptop | /home/shallax/buildroot/Vars.make:161: *** Must have a toolchain available, or build one!. Stop. |
| 18:39.20 | ShALLaX|Laptop | any ideas? |
| 18:39.31 | ShALLaX|Laptop | ive installed the crosscompiler to /usr/local/arm |
| 18:40.13 | NoMercy | Ahh, the SD group only give out info to members and cover the info by a NDA, ergo publishing a open-source driver would break the NDA and be likely illegal |
| 18:40.28 | pb_ | __andras__: I am. |
| 18:40.38 | NoMercy | Leaving only reverse engineering of current SD solutions an option |
| 18:41.45 | TheMasterMind1 | __andras__: yes, chances are it can be ported over to work on the zaurus models |
| 18:42.09 | NoMercy | Though anyone looking at the SD card module should be able to work out with enough time how it works |
| 18:42.28 | TheMasterMind1 | pb_: does that driver finally support both sd and mmc, or only sd? |
| 18:42.33 | pb_ | TheMasterMind1: both |
| 18:42.37 | TheMasterMind1 | pb_: great |
| 18:42.39 | NoMercy | where anyone = somone who knows how to reverse engineer arm-code kernel modules |
| 18:43.20 | TheMasterMind1 | kergoth will eventually use the docs he has from sharp along with the ipaq mmc code to write a sd/mmc kernel module for the oz .21 collie kernel |
| 18:43.24 | NoMercy | If it works I guess somone did that :) |
| 18:44.12 | __andras__ | TheMasterMind1: thanks. so it's not ready yet, but the info is all there, so i can expect a gpl-ed sdmmc module in the future? |
| 18:44.43 | NoMercy | SD cards arn't encrypted, they include 'Advanced Copyright Protection' heh :) |
| 18:45.42 | NoMercy | *sigh* bah, yesterday the UK got it's own version of the DMCA :/ |
| 18:46.09 | TheMasterMind1 | __andras__: yea |
| 18:46.21 | TheMasterMind1 | __andras__: when oz releases its .21 kernel, it will include sdmmc support |
| 18:46.56 | __andras__ | TheMasterMind1: cool |
| 18:49.45 | NoMercy | *goes back to acting thick* |
| 18:51.38 | __andras__ | why is it that in oz experimental, c750 and c760 use different sets of files? aren't they identical, barring the amount of rom? |
| 18:52.08 | TheMasterMind1 | no |
| 18:52.11 | treke|home | __andras__: Correct. |
| 18:52.14 | TheMasterMind1 | yes |
| 18:52.22 | TheMasterMind1 | didn't the proc change? |
| 18:52.27 | treke|home | TheMasterMind1: no |
| 18:52.33 | TheMasterMind1 | the pxa bug thing |
| 18:52.36 | TheMasterMind1 | hmm, nm then |
| 18:53.06 | treke|home | the c760 and the c750 need different kernels, and that is it. The rootfs's are interchangable |
| 18:53.59 | TheMasterMind1 | well, maybe stuff is compiled with the gcc option to disable the thing thats buggy with the c750 pxa |
| 18:54.04 | TheMasterMind1 | *shrug*. i can't remember |
| 18:54.20 | treke|home | TheMasterMind1: No. |
| 18:54.38 | treke|home | TheMasterMind1: They use different kernels, and that is it. The rootfs's are completely interchangable. |
| 18:54.49 | TheMasterMind1 | ok |
| 18:55.21 | __andras__ | treke|home: why are the kernels different? i'm asking because i've just flashed the c760 sets to the c750 and it seems to work |
| 18:55.34 | treke|home | __andras__: Because the amount of flash is different |
| 18:55.40 | __andras__ | treke|home: the c750 image in experimental doesn't seem to be any good |
| 18:56.02 | treke|home | TheMasterMind1: the 5600 and c700 should also be able to use the same rootfs as the c750 and c760 |
| 18:56.20 | treke|home | __andras__: It works pretty well, just out of date |
| 18:57.04 | __andras__ | treke|home: but why is that a difference? the c760 kernel recognizes the amount of rom correctly even on the c750, so it seems that it can probe it and the amount doesn't have to be hardwired |
| 18:57.11 | hardwire | hi |
| 18:57.17 | __andras__ | treke|home: what works pretty well? the c760 or c750 kernel? |
| 18:57.19 | hardwire | nobody will be using me for anything |
| 18:57.22 | hardwire | thank you very much |
| 18:57.48 | treke|home | __andras__: the c750 rootfs. I used them for a while |
| 18:58.04 | __andras__ | ok, so i should take the c750 kernel with the c760 root image? |
| 18:58.16 | treke|home | sure. |
| 18:58.41 | treke|home | __andras__: the c750 kernel didn't correctly detect the amount of flash when I tried it |
| 18:59.01 | treke|home | it was able to mount the root partition, but not the second partition |
| 19:00.20 | __andras__ | treke|home: my problem is the other way round -- c760 kernel on c750 |
| 19:00.33 | treke|home | Then use the c750 kernel |
| 19:00.44 | __andras__ | it doesn't work |
| 19:01.33 | __andras__ | if i flash the set (kernel+image) in unofficial/experimental/shepherd, it gives me an endless stream of jffs2 errors |
| 19:02.25 | __andras__ | treke|home: just tried c750 kernel with c760 image, it does the same thing |
| 19:04.15 | __andras__ | treke|home: with the c760 kernel, verbose messages are turned off -- maybe that's the problem? maybe i get the same messages as with the c750 kernel but can't see them, and screen output with the c750 kernel slows things down |
| 19:04.25 | treke|home | Could be. |
| 19:06.49 | __andras__ | treke|home: i think i've got it, the error messages have stopped and it's configuring the packages |
| 19:07.07 | __andras__ | treke|home: opie is coming up -- whoohhooo! |
| 19:17.09 | NoMercy | *sigh* |
| 19:17.25 | NoMercy | *fails again* |
| 19:17.39 | NoMercy | every time I try and ipkg upgrade, it crashes out and I'm left with a uselss system |
| 19:18.14 | __andras__ | NoMercy: trying to upgrade 3.2 to testing on 5500? |
| 19:18.43 | NoMercy | aye |
| 19:18.46 | treke|home | dont |
| 19:18.50 | treke|home | Reflash |
| 19:18.58 | __andras__ | well i've done it... |
| 19:19.05 | NoMercy | If I want to upgrade, how do I? |
| 19:19.10 | treke|home | NoMercy: Reflash. |
| 19:19.15 | __andras__ | NoMercy: reflash to testing? where do you get the images from? |
| 19:19.23 | __andras__ | NoMercy: the way i did it was a bit tedious |
| 19:19.45 | NoMercy | I have no idea where to get a image for testing |
| 19:20.04 | NoMercy | I keep going back to the normal and going again |
| 19:20.10 | NoMercy | I'm gonna end up memorising my wlan keys |
| 19:20.12 | treke|home | Check around the forums, some people have made images. |
| 19:20.29 | NoMercy | ZUG forums? |
| 19:20.56 | treke|home | Probably on there, I think i've seen links on the zaurus.com forums |
| 19:21.35 | NoMercy | thank god for the beauty of a CF reader :) |
| 19:35.28 | ShALLaX | NoMercy: indeed |
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| 19:58.54 | NoMercy | *virtually gives up on finding a image* |
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| 21:14.05 | __andras__ | treke|home: do you know what the updater.sh file is that you need for flashing? how do I create it if I have a zimage and/or initrd? or is it always the same? |
| 21:14.20 | treke|home | Download the one from the website |
| 21:18.07 | __andras__ | treke|home: so i can use the same one for anything? doesn't it contain the filenames? i'm just asking because flashing the c760 image from experimental works even if you don't change the filename (i.e. you leave the numbers in zimage-.....) |
| 21:18.17 | treke|home | Use the one from the c750 directory. |
| 21:19.07 | treke|home | I'd highly recommend following the recommended instructions. Using undocumented behaviors often have a habit of having unexpected side effects |
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