| 00:00.52 | kolla | me and ranting again :) |
| 00:00.54 | ||ugh | Ghads yes. To both. But by now we should be able to RE all the hardware shit on Z, with only the stupid MMC/SD interface being in question I would hope. |
| 00:01.40 | kolla | RE? |
| 00:01.43 | ||ugh | The user land stuff is alowed to fester too long in this community. Sigh, I have been avoiding getting sucked in so I don't have much of a leg to stand on. |
| 00:01.47 | kolla | oh..reverse engineer? |
| 00:01.51 | ||ugh | Bingo |
| 00:02.46 | ||ugh | Look, they have LEFT the USSA. How much longer should it matter? How pissed can they be? How fare do they think they can push the IPR/contract againt RE shit? |
| 00:05.00 | ||ugh | Dam, so MUCH is gone from the OZ site I can't even find out how to backup all the good stuff on the SL-6000. Sigh. |
| 00:06.34 | kolla | USSA? |
| 00:07.19 | ||ugh | The country I (sadly) live in, you know the one, run by criminals in Washintoon? |
| 00:07.25 | kolla | the United Sovjet State of America? :) |
| 00:07.32 | ||ugh | Somehting like that. |
| 00:07.34 | kolla | :) |
| 00:08.00 | ||ugh | Norway? Nice. Bit solialistic for me, but great to visit. |
| 00:08.56 | kolla | socialistic? |
| 00:09.05 | ||ugh | I think your using all that north sea welth to fund tunell digging for the next 100 years! |
| 00:09.14 | kolla | something like that :) |
| 00:09.39 | ||ugh | Socialist, as in democratic socialism. My spelling can suck... |
| 00:10.26 | ||ugh | Anyway, been to Norway a few times and enjoyed my time there, thats all. |
| 00:12.20 | kolla | havent really been outside europe yet, allthough technically I have.. "mainland" turkey being in Asia :) |
| 00:12.59 | kolla | who had left the usa btw? |
| 00:14.20 | ||ugh | Sharp has stopped selling ANY Z's in the USSA. So now they are all legacy. I see no point in hobbeling our selves, I don't see how the claims of RE restriction worked in the first place. |
| 00:14.33 | netsplit | Is it possible to install OZ on top of the Sharp ROM? |
| 00:15.55 | kolla | ||ugh: ah right... well, the never ever sold any of them here so .. :) |
| 00:16.29 | kolla | netsplit: not really no |
| 00:16.50 | netsplit | kolla: why not? |
| 00:17.14 | kolla | because the sharp rom is radonly? |
| 00:17.19 | kolla | readonly |
| 00:17.30 | ||ugh | netsplit, someone might write a script that lets you choose to boot off of RZ (retail Zaurus in ROM) or off of OZ/other on the SD/CF. Not done yet but simple I would think |
| 00:17.35 | kolla | ofcourse |
| 00:18.00 | kolla | ofcourse .. one could pivot_root |
| 00:18.12 | netsplit | That would be cool ... |
| 00:18.31 | kolla | but you would need to use the old libc to have working modutils :) |
| 00:19.36 | netsplit | Hmmz ... I don't want the old libc. |
| 00:19.49 | kolla | why not? :) |
| 00:20.26 | netsplit | Because the whole point of my wanting to install OZ is so I have new versions of everything ... |
| 00:20.52 | kolla | oh.. right |
| 00:21.16 | kolla | what I think would be cool was if someone wrote a "grub" for the zaurus |
| 00:21.26 | netsplit | I was trying to rip some debian-arm packages to ipkg, and lo and behold, it requires a newer version of glibc. |
| 00:21.32 | netsplit | Yes, I agree. |
| 00:21.51 | netsplit | Though I was told that's idiotic because there are already many boot loaders for arm, while grub is for x86. |
| 00:22.04 | kolla | grub is multi-arch |
| 00:22.17 | kolla | there's also grub for ppc |
| 00:22.20 | netsplit | OK, not arm then. |
| 00:22.46 | kolla | yeah well.. there's redboot |
| 00:22.54 | netsplit | What's that? |
| 00:23.43 | kolla | one of the many arm bootloaders |
| 00:24.26 | netsplit | Do you know how it all works on this thing? Is there an MBR too? Where is the MBR? How's the memory laid out? I'm still much confused. |
| 00:24.28 | kolla | made by redhat iirc |
| 00:24.45 | kolla | I doubt there is a mbr :) |
| 00:25.00 | kolla | no idea how it works.. |
| 00:25.16 | netsplit | Do you know a website that explains this? |
| 00:25.23 | kolla | but I understand it is quite possible to "brick" it |
| 00:25.30 | netsplit | Is it laid out the same way as any other arm device? |
| 00:25.34 | netsplit | What does it mean to brick it? |
| 00:26.07 | kolla | flash is so that it wont boot and cannot be reflashed |
| 00:26.25 | kolla | http://sources.redhat.com/redboot/ |
| 00:26.33 | netsplit | How do you brick it? |
| 00:26.47 | netsplit | And wait, someone told me it's not possible for me to mess up flashing a 6000L. |
| 00:26.56 | netsplit | Irrevocably mess up. |
| 00:27.00 | kolla | by interrupting a flash in its early stage I can imagine |
| 00:27.15 | netsplit | I was told that's only bad for 5500. |
| 00:27.22 | kolla | maybe, no idea |
| 00:27.34 | kolla | I wont get another zaurus anyways |
| 00:27.42 | netsplit | Why not? |
| 00:27.56 | kolla | because it "doesnt work" :) |
| 00:28.24 | kolla | linux on "PDA" is insane in the first place, and IMO it all just sucks :) |
| 00:28.35 | netsplit | *gasp* blasphemy. |
| 00:28.38 | netsplit | Why do you say it? |
| 00:28.40 | kolla | bite me :) |
| 00:28.50 | kolla | because, as I see it, that is how it is |
| 00:30.11 | kolla | an OS as anal about filesystems as "unix" (including linux) will never work properly with such devices |
| 00:30.26 | netsplit | How do you mean anal? |
| 00:30.45 | kolla | filesystem-dependant |
| 00:31.01 | netsplit | What's filesystem-dependent? |
| 00:31.02 | kolla | if you have a linux system and removes a filesystem, it goes bananas |
| 00:31.21 | netsplit | How does it work with usb storage devices? |
| 00:31.27 | netsplit | Must you also umount before you can remove them? |
| 00:31.35 | kolla | yes, and it's just as insane there |
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| 00:33.01 | netsplit | Why hasn't someone worked to fix it? |
| 00:33.14 | kolla | netsplit: because it would break too much |
| 00:33.16 | netsplit | Is it some kind of fundamental design that's preventing a fix? |
| 00:33.21 | kolla | indeed |
| 00:33.26 | netsplit | What exactly? |
| 00:34.21 | kolla | beats me, it was designed for systems where filesystems are static |
| 00:35.19 | netsplit | Oh, do you know where I can find err ... I guess the operating system headers for the Sharp ROM so I can compile libncurses myself? |
| 00:35.39 | netsplit | I can't find binaries that work :( |
| 00:35.46 | kolla | afaik that would be normal linux kernel headers |
| 00:36.19 | netsplit | I mean something's different right? |
| 00:36.28 | netsplit | What are glibc headers? |
| 00:36.30 | *** part/#openzaurus brimston3 (me@146.229.182.99) |
| 00:36.38 | netsplit | The thing that tells it I was compiled against glibc 2.2 and not 2.3? |
| 00:36.51 | kolla | oh.. |
| 00:37.04 | kolla | that would be the glibc headers I assume :) |
| 00:37.37 | netsplit | How about where can I find all the source code for it so I can build it all myself? :) |
| 00:37.40 | kolla | for compiling programs you can just use the normal linux headers an glibc headers afaik |
| 00:37.44 | netsplit | It's Linux, so must be under GPL :) |
| 00:37.54 | kolla | kernel.org and gnu.org? :) |
| 00:38.23 | netsplit | So you think I just go get myself glibc2.2, and it'll compile? |
| 00:38.30 | kolla | and btw.. it doesnt have to be GPL to run on linux :) |
| 00:38.35 | kolla | yes |
| 00:38.53 | netsplit | I mean Sharp's kernel source must be GPL too because GPL is a virus :) |
| 00:39.00 | kolla | you have toolchain for the armv4l? |
| 00:39.05 | netsplit | No. |
| 00:39.14 | kolla | what will you compile on? |
| 00:39.18 | netsplit | I don't know yet. |
| 00:39.20 | netsplit | :) |
| 00:39.23 | kolla | oh.. |
| 00:40.17 | kolla | and no.. parts of the kernel source must no be GPL.. parts of it isnt, like the kernel module for the SD/MMC :) |
| 00:41.38 | netsplit | True. I must qualify myself again. All modules that use more than the published interface (that uses knowledge about the internal workings of the kernel) must be GPL, right? |
| 00:42.01 | kolla | it's almost 3AM here.. I'm not up for this... :) |
| 00:42.25 | netsplit | Hehe, OK, thanks for the help. |
| 00:42.28 | kolla | I would guess that if the "more" stuff there is GPL, then yes :) |
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| 01:12.56 | Kirby | anyone had any luck with networking 3.5.1 eth over usb with XP sp2? |
| 01:18.49 | gridbug | It may be completely unrelated... but SP2 broke some stuff like some port-forwarding and VPN products. |
| 01:19.22 | gridbug | There's a hotfix for that particular issue - but its been awhile and I can't remember EXACTLY what the issue is / was. |
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| 03:08.52 | zeblitz | anyone had any problems with the ipkg upgrade from .9 to 1.0.3? |
| 03:09.00 | zeblitz | for opie |
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| 03:56.22 | zeblitz | anyone had any problems with the ipkg upgrade from .9 to 1.0.3? |
| 03:56.25 | zeblitz | for opie |
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