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| 08:24.00 | alan|laptop | morning |
| 08:24.26 | johnX | mornin' |
| 08:36.56 | alan|laptop | http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=17885 |
| 08:45.48 | alan|laptop | ok, second model posted |
| 08:46.27 | alan|laptop | the good point when you work during the night : you have time to experiment ^^ |
| 08:51.00 | XorA | morning |
| 08:53.47 | alan|laptop | morning XorA |
| 08:54.24 | alan|laptop | XorA: will you have a look at http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=17885 and tell me wht you think about it ? |
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| 08:57.34 | alan|laptop | hey obergix[work] |
| 08:57.47 | obergix[work] | hi alan|laptop |
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| 09:02.17 | _law_ | alan|laptop, nice :-) |
| 09:02.41 | alan|laptop | you like them _law_ ? |
| 09:03.04 | alan|laptop | that is cool |
| 09:04.02 | alan|laptop | obergix[work]: http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=17885. There is not much candidates to the graphical contest... |
| 09:04.25 | obergix[work] | alan|laptop: hackers != artists ? |
| 09:04.30 | alan|laptop | ^^ |
| 09:04.49 | alan|laptop | maybe that is the point, indeed... |
| 09:05.25 | alan|laptop | most of us are not able to code for OZ team... but drawing something is not that hard. |
| 09:06.21 | alan|laptop | sending something is like a way to pay back the software... |
| 09:06.22 | obergix[work] | alan|laptop: just go ahead... personnaly I'm more at coding (although lacking time and motivation to investigate difficult tasks as coding on kernel stuff, drivers, etc.) than drawing |
| 09:06.37 | obergix[work] | alan|laptop: my visa could help more, I'm afraid ;) |
| 09:06.44 | alan|laptop | ho yeah... |
| 09:07.18 | alan|laptop | but as long as i'm a student, i can't use my visa... |
| 09:08.19 | alan|laptop | ~hail CAPES and Master degree in philosophy |
| 09:08.21 | ibot | ACTION bows down to CAPES and Master degree in philosophy and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 09:08.33 | obergix[work] | alan|laptop: happy man... when you can, you use it too much, believe me ;) |
| 09:08.41 | alan|laptop | hehehe |
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| 09:15.39 | XorA | alan|laptop: I really like OZTux |
| 09:15.45 | alan|laptop | the problem is now : what licence will i use for those creations... |
| 09:15.49 | alan|laptop | XorA: cool |
| 09:16.33 | XorA | alan|laptop: although he is wieldy that stylus scarilly |
| 09:16.57 | alan|laptop | ^^ |
| 09:17.15 | alan|laptop | i have troubles with the stylus anyway |
| 09:18.35 | obergix[work] | I'm not sure a pinguin is something good to use... of course it's important for us that Linux is inside... but I prefer something more original... |
| 09:19.18 | XorA | well for zaurus, we could have a dog eating a penguin? |
| 09:20.21 | alan|laptop | hehe |
| 09:20.59 | alan|laptop | obergix[work]: i tried drawing some king of dino, but i'm not that good... |
| 09:21.08 | alan|laptop | but i'll try again |
| 09:22.13 | XorA | alan|laptop: please make many pictures, because ones not used for a distro might still make good logos for programs, for example Id love to use OZTux for a program if its free |
| 09:22.24 | XorA | free (not used, not free of cost) |
| 09:22.36 | XorA | ~lart the english word free |
| 09:22.48 | alan|laptop | ^^ |
| 09:23.42 | alan|laptop | ho ! btw, what does "free (as in beer)" mean, XorA. I saw this on several website but i really don't understand... |
| 09:24.14 | obergix[work] | alan|laptop: you, a philosopher ? |
| 09:24.16 | XorA | alan|laptop: beer as given away at zero cost |
| 09:24.57 | alan|laptop | beer is given away at zero cost ? oO' |
| 09:25.04 | XorA | alan|laptop: ie not free as in Libre |
| 09:25.10 | hrw|work | morning |
| 09:25.13 | alan|laptop | haaa |
| 09:25.19 | alan|laptop | morning hrw|work |
| 09:25.42 | XorA | alan|laptop: I beleive your language is lucky enough to have two different words for the different concepts |
| 09:26.32 | obergix[work] | http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html |
| 09:26.47 | alan|laptop | yep "libre" (free) and "gratuit" (no cost) |
| 09:27.29 | obergix[work] | alan|laptop: le logiciel libre, c'est comme le sexe, c'est encore meilleur quand c'est [gratuit|libre] ? |
| 09:27.37 | alan|laptop | ^^ |
| 09:28.00 | obergix[work] | alan|laptop: originaly, this is supposed to be a quote by Linus Torvalds... |
| 09:28.10 | alan|laptop | obergix[work]: les deux ;) |
| 09:28.30 | obergix[work] | alan|laptop: anyway, I strongly suggest that you read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ ... |
| 09:28.36 | alan|laptop | hehe |
| 09:29.07 | obergix[work] | alan|laptop: and welcome to join #april for further philosophical debates on libre in french ;) |
| 09:29.29 | alan|laptop | ok, i'll do |
| 09:29.31 | XorA | keep your scary mind games away from my free beer adled brain :-) |
| 09:31.26 | alan|laptop | obergix[work]: did you hear XorA ? that is why we had Descartes and they had... huh... well... Tatcher (?)... ;) |
| 09:31.50 | XorA | I staggered therefore I was |
| 09:32.07 | alan|laptop | :D |
| 09:32.22 | obergix[work] | alan|laptop: I won't dare entering those troubled waters (channel ?) |
| 09:34.43 | XorA | A man is defined by the number of beers he can consume without dieing |
| 09:38.26 | obergix[work] | XorA: or the number of pints he can carry at the same time ? |
| 09:38.37 | XorA | obergix[work]: thats a chicks job |
| 09:39.08 | obergix[work] | XorA: oops... sorry, sure, that's the definition of women ;) |
| 09:39.29 | XorA | afterall the perfect one has a new beer the second the old one gets warm |
| 09:41.29 | obergix[work] | XorA: I'm becoming thursty... you'd better stop, yes |
| 09:42.18 | obergix[work] | btw, don't spit beer on your n770 : http://www.olivierberger.com/weblog/index.php/2006/01/31/38-is-the-nokia-770-beer-proof |
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| 13:54.46 | alan|home | re |
| 14:13.29 | polyonymous | alan|home, your bootsplash isn't clamshell-compatible :) |
| 14:28.20 | alan|home | polyonymous: arghh... why ? |
| 14:28.37 | polyonymous | alan|home, the one that pictures device itself |
| 14:28.52 | polyonymous | I mean, some clamshell users may find it insulting :) |
| 14:29.03 | alan|home | you mean no keyboard ? |
| 14:29.20 | polyonymous | Not only no keyboard, but there are those surronding buttons. |
| 14:29.28 | alan|home | ho ^^ |
| 14:29.29 | polyonymous | Don't you think it will look somewhat silly on clamshell? |
| 14:30.13 | alan|home | mmm... i don't know... |
| 14:30.47 | alan|home | i'l affraid drawing a keyboard would look strange... |
| 14:30.48 | polyonymous | Well, just thought I'd share my opinion with you. |
| 14:31.05 | alan|home | i'm glad you do |
| 14:31.40 | alan|home | i'll try to add a keyboard, and see what it looks like |
| 14:31.47 | polyonymous | Yes, drawing a keyboard would look strange both on clamshells and others :) |
| 14:32.00 | polyonymous | No, I don't think it's a good idea. |
| 14:32.00 | hrw|work | alan|home: your images are nice |
| 14:32.06 | alan|home | thanks hrw|work |
| 14:32.18 | alan|home | i hope people will draw some others |
| 14:32.46 | polyonymous | I think there should be a better solution that drawing a keyboard or getting rid of the pda frame altogether. You're the Artist - think! :-) |
| 14:32.53 | alan|home | currently drawing a third one, btw ^^ |
| 14:33.25 | alan|home | polyonymous: i whish you knew how far from an artist i am... |
| 14:33.57 | polyonymous | alan|home, If you weren't one you wouldn't do it. I believe you're talking about your lack of skills, but that's not exactly what makes an artist :) |
| 14:37.18 | alan|home | well, i really thanks you for what you say, but i'm doing this just for fun, and because i hope some _real_ and _skilled_ artist will dare trying |
| 14:38.13 | hrw|work | optimist.. |
| 14:38.58 | alan|home | always |
| 14:39.37 | alan|home | anyway, if i'm the only candidate, then i might be the winner ^^ |
| 14:41.31 | polyonymous | heh, yes. As for the fun you have - this is exactly what normally motivates artists :) |
| 14:41.42 | XorA | hrw|work: any estimates on how long an md5sum of a card takes? |
| 14:42.02 | hrw|work | XorA: depends on capacity but for 256M it is long.. |
| 14:42.09 | hrw|work | for 1G it will be very long |
| 14:42.09 | XorA | hrw|work: 1G :-( |
| 14:42.17 | hrw|work | XorA: leave it for 1-2h |
| 14:42.39 | hrw|work | on 'while true;do md5sum /dev/mmcblk0;done' and then check results |
| 14:42.42 | XorA | hrw|work: I shall abandon now then and run overnight tonight if I remember |
| 14:44.57 | alan|home | ho ! i didn't perform the tests with the .15 kernel... i should do that... |
| 14:45.13 | alan|home | i had no pb with .14 rc1 |
| 14:45.28 | hrw|work | alan|home: anyway check .15 |
| 14:45.34 | alan|home | i will |
| 14:46.03 | hrw|work | I could provide one more kernel to check does it fail without those fix.. |
| 14:46.03 | alan|home | i just finish my dinosaur for obergix[work] ^^ |
| 14:46.30 | obergix[work] | alan|home: URL ? |
| 14:47.49 | alan|home | not yet, obergix[work] |
| 14:48.02 | alan|home | give me 10 minutes |
| 14:51.57 | obergix[work] | alan|home: no prob |
| 14:54.56 | alan|home | hrw|work: i have troubles with choosing a licence for the OZHand model. I draw the earth by myself, but i took the hand from http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Stop_hand.svg. Can it be used with OZ anyway ? |
| 14:56.46 | hrw|work | dont know |
| 14:57.22 | alan|home | i'll explain this when i send the svg to the mailing list. Maybe someone will know |
| 15:05.03 | alan|home | obergix[work]: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/alan.crevon/oberzaur.png for a preview |
| 15:05.15 | alan|home | waiting for comments |
| 15:05.48 | obergix[work] | hmmm... I'm afraid the star reminds too much of Mandrake/Mandriva... which has no link to OZ :/ |
| 15:07.08 | alan|home | reminds too much... like Lindows reminds something ? |
| 15:07.47 | alan|home | yeah, you are right |
| 15:08.11 | obergix[work] | a debian twirl woud fit better, for instance, maybe ;) |
| 15:12.17 | polyonymous | since I haven't seen mandrake/mandriva logos it doesn't remind me of them :) |
| 15:14.19 | tchan | sorry for the off-topic question, but can anyone tell me how to save local setting when booting from the pdaXrom x86 ISO ? |
| 15:19.53 | XorA | tchan: you are a brave brave man :-) |
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| 15:25.42 | tchan | why ? for booting an iso on a spare computer ? Or for asking the question in here ? |
| 15:25.51 | hrw|work | asking |
| 15:26.24 | tchan | sorry. Your channel seemed much livelier than #zaurus |
| 15:26.54 | tchan | and I thought there might be a few people in here that might have tried other roms/distros |
| 15:26.55 | hrw|work | ah.. forgot that pdaX developer does not use irc.. |
| 15:27.13 | *** join/#openzaurus alan|home (n=alan@ARouen-152-1-69-191.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:27.13 | hrw|work | I tried pdaX once - after 30 minutes I was in OZ again |
| 15:27.27 | XorA | tchan: We tend to get the chainsaws out at the mention of pdaX words :-) |
| 15:27.48 | XorA | tchan: but seriously, I have run pdaX on Z, but not the x86 version |
| 15:28.06 | tchan | didn't know there was such bad blood. I expect to try all the roms after UPS delivers my C1000, supposedly today! |
| 15:28.49 | hrw|work | 'I have run' != 'I had run'? |
| 15:28.49 | tchan | the iso was available and like I said I don't have my Z yet... |
| 15:29.42 | XorA | hrw|work: different, but for the life of me cant tell you why |
| 15:30.43 | hrw|work | tchan: let me quote me: |
| 15:30.45 | hrw|work | I feel like pdaX is distro done mostly by Sashz and Laze which have good knowledge how to make working distro but do not want to play wth newest stuff - prefer to keep versions which are known as working. In result you got quite stable system which has more-or-less working tools. They cannot test everything due to lack of misc hardware so users complain from time to time that something does not work. |
| 15:30.51 | hrw|work | In OpenEmbedded team we have similar problems (lack of misc hardware) but we are larger group due to fact that we are not only OpenZaurus guys but also developers of few other distros. This gives us more (over 2000 source packages) stuff for users but due to fact that we often try to follow upstream with upgrading to newer versions we do not have everything well tested. But going to newest versions sometimes is good, sometimes is not. |
| 15:32.51 | hrw|work | tchan: so pdaX == older stuff but working more-or-less |
| 15:33.02 | hrw|work | OZ = newer stuff usually working |
| 15:33.16 | hrw|work | more-or-less |
| 15:33.42 | tchan | hrw|work: don't get me wrong I'll certainly try OZ as well, but there isn't a OZ boot iso that I can try right ? Like I said I'm still waiting for my actual Z hardware to show up. |
| 15:33.49 | XorA | pdaX == accellerated X |
| 15:34.01 | hrw|work | XorA: only on w100 devices |
| 15:34.04 | hrw|work | iirc |
| 15:34.20 | hrw|work | tchan: what for we have to provide OZ/x86? |
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| 15:35.37 | XorA | interesting, mutt and Maildir dont function on jffs2 |
| 15:38.09 | tchan | hrw|work: you don't have to provide an OZ/x86. It just makes it hard for me to test out OZ until my Z hardware actually arrives. That's the only reason I booted the other distro's x86 ISO to see what kind of cross-compiler enviornment they were providing, etc and to see how hard it will be to compile apps for the Z. |
| 15:40.10 | *** join/#openzaurus champ (n=champ@216.85.238.67) |
| 15:40.17 | polyonymous | tchan, I know the feeling. Moreover, after it arrives it still easier to test stuff this way. Moreover, having a new hardware on your hands you suffer brickophobia badly, so you'd rather prefer to try stuff elsewhere :) |
| 15:41.04 | tchan | :) |
| 15:41.42 | tchan | and after reading the docs, again, on openzaurus.org, its still not clear to me how I would go about compiling apps for OZ myself. |
| 15:42.07 | tchan | Do I have to setup an entire cross-compiler gnu toolchain for armv by myself ? |
| 15:42.14 | hrw|work | we will provide cross-sdk |
| 15:42.27 | hrw|work | also native-sdk (on Z) is possible to install |
| 15:42.42 | tchan | ah okay. I didn't see those links on the homepage. |
| 15:43.15 | hrw|work | tchan: cross-sdk is archive which will be in dir where oz 3.5.4 will be |
| 15:43.31 | hrw|work | native-sdk == packages in feed |
| 15:45.04 | XorA | hrw|work: NFS :-) |
| 15:45.31 | XorA | so why is mutt unable to count files on a jffs2 partition? |
| 15:45.47 | jnc | that sounds about right, XorA |
| 15:46.01 | XorA | jnc: what does? |
| 15:46.10 | hrw|work | XorA: argh.. |
| 15:46.10 | jnc | i don't think it's part of the jffs2 system, to have directory counds |
| 15:46.14 | jnc | counts, even |
| 15:46.27 | jnc | you can turn that off on the ext2 filesystem as well |
| 15:46.32 | XorA | jnc: oh, that is unfortuneate, makes checking for new mail hard |
| 15:46.39 | jnc | sure |
| 15:46.39 | d0tslash | what can I do if my jffs2 file system is full, and removing gives "cannot remove: not enough space" |
| 15:46.53 | hrw|work | d0tslash: nothing except reflash |
| 15:46.55 | jnc | d0tslash: ouch :( |
| 15:46.55 | XorA | d0tslash: sometimes reboot fixes that one |
| 15:47.00 | XorA | d0tslash: if you really lucky |
| 15:47.02 | d0tslash | reboot does not fixes that |
| 15:47.08 | hrw|work | d0tslash: jffs2 need ~0.5-1M free to be happy |
| 15:47.09 | d0tslash | [i've tried about 10 times ;)] |
| 15:47.15 | XorA | d0tslash: then its down to hrw|work plan |
| 15:47.21 | d0tslash | hm~ |
| 15:47.25 | d0tslash | that's too bad ... |
| 15:47.59 | d0tslash | [i've lost my old open-embedded sources ^^] |
| 15:48.28 | d0tslash | but oz 3.5.4 should be available soon, i see ... |
| 15:48.50 | d0tslash | is jffs2 the only usuable file system on the flash? |
| 15:49.09 | jnc | there are others, jffs2 is the nicest |
| 15:49.30 | d0tslash | actually I did not found it nice yesterday :) |
| 15:49.37 | jnc | what you did was bad |
| 15:49.40 | jnc | shame on you. |
| 15:49.42 | jnc | ^_^ |
| 15:49.46 | d0tslash | and a few things don't work when the file system is full |
| 15:49.57 | d0tslash | like volume adjusting won't work |
| 15:50.08 | d0tslash | mplayer does not play good anymore |
| 15:50.11 | jnc | it's like if you light your hair on fire and complain, hey is there fire that won't make my hair burn? |
| 15:50.29 | d0tslash | I was just using drawpad and maybe added too much pictures |
| 15:50.43 | d0tslash | yeah sure ^^ |
| 15:50.47 | jnc | the answer is to prevent the user from filling up the jffs2 system |
| 15:51.08 | d0tslash | actually i did not know that it may not be filled up |
| 15:51.26 | jnc | oh? maybe we need to change a document to say that |
| 15:51.43 | polyonymous | jnc, it's more like asking vendor if by chance they have nonselfinflammable shampoo, actually ;-) |
| 15:52.15 | polyonymous | and the vendor says -no, but just don't wash your hair more than once a week and you wil lbe fine. |
| 15:52.22 | jnc | heh |
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| 15:52.45 | jnc | it's a known thing that filling up your filesystem on *nix is a very, very, bad idea |
| 15:52.54 | jnc | it will make the system die. |
| 15:53.07 | polyonymous | jnc, but in other fss it's not irreversible is it? |
| 15:53.10 | d0tslash | i've filled a lot of ext2 volumes already and never had to reformat :) |
| 15:53.20 | d0tslash | deleting files usually helped :) |
| 15:53.37 | polyonymous | exactly. This does sound like a design flaw, doesn't it? |
| 15:53.51 | d0tslash | jffs2 is appending someone said, so that's the reason |
| 15:53.57 | jnc | d0tslash: if you fill up the root filesystem ext2 of a *nix box, your computer will crash. |
| 15:54.04 | jnc | it will cease to function. |
| 15:54.15 | d0tslash | jnc: actually, i've tried that, it never crashed. it misbehaved, yes |
| 15:54.24 | polyonymous | jnc, crash is not half a disaster that seems to come with overfull jffs2 |
| 15:54.52 | jnc | okay |
| 15:55.11 | jnc | d0tslash: what is your arrangement? |
| 15:55.27 | jnc | is your /home on the rootfs ? |
| 15:55.35 | polyonymous | Once I've had print head of early epson stylus clogged. When I came to service, they told me that I PRINTED too much. It wasn't true, but even if it was - isn't it what they sell printers for, anyway? :) |
| 15:55.35 | d0tslash | jnc: yes |
| 15:55.41 | jnc | d0tslash: that is the problem. |
| 15:55.58 | d0tslash | I save most of my data on my sd |
| 15:56.10 | d0tslash | but I also have music on my sd so I sometimes I want to take it out |
| 15:56.19 | d0tslash | and I can't do that without rebooting |
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| 16:07.52 | dtx | Hi everybody |
| 16:07.57 | jnc | hello |
| 16:09.00 | dtx | Hey does anybody here have any experience with using python on zaurus |
| 16:10.06 | dtx | or more specifically pyrex? |
| 16:12.58 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 16:13.02 | alan|home | obergix[work]: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/alan.crevon/oberzaur.png for a preview |
| 16:13.08 | alan|home | (bis) |
| 16:13.13 | alan|home | hi CoreDump|home |
| 16:13.31 | obergix[work] | alan|home: interesting |
| 16:14.00 | polyonymous | alan|home, turn it into usb cable :)) |
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| 16:35.28 | alan|home | polyonymous: that is an idea... |
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| 16:47.22 | alan|home | will finish tommorrow : it(s time to go to work |
| 16:47.25 | alan|home | bye |
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| 18:24.44 | stefansander | has anybody build openzaurus themself? bitbake made a 23MB initrd.bin which was to big for the update process! it failes with error. i have a SL5600 |
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| 21:38.23 | XorA|gone | ~change 508 eur togbp |
| 21:38.28 | XorA|gone | ~change 508 eur to gbp |
| 21:39.24 | XorA|gone | ~change 69,886 jpy to gbp |
| 21:39.38 | XorA|gone | ~change 69886 jpy to gbp |
| 22:09.17 | NAbyss | ~change 17 gbp to aud |
| 22:10.19 | NAbyss | ~change 23 gbp to aud |
| 22:21.45 | polyonymous | Does ibot get a comission from each transaction? |
| 22:22.14 | NAbyss | Most likely |
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| 22:31.29 | _law_ | ~change 23 gbp to euro |
| 22:31.44 | _law_ | ~change 23 gbp to ats |
| 22:33.10 | _law_ | ibot: s/ http://www.xe.com/)/ http://www.xe.com/ |
| 22:33.59 | polyonymous | _law_, you better use other delimiter or backslash-escape slashes :) |
| 22:36.43 | _law_ | :-) |
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| 22:57.58 | _law_ | n8 all |
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