| 00:39.57 | wpiku | http://www.atari-source.org/?q=node/57 |
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| 03:14.15 | dhr | kevin': I didn't realize that sl-c3200 has USB 2, high speed. |
| 03:15.00 | Kevin` | dhr I think I read that it does.. i'll look at stuff if you want |
| 03:15.35 | dhr | not urgent. The kind of info I file away for when I contemplate choice of devices. |
| 03:15.48 | Kevin` | bieng in this channel.. are there any normal window managers available for OZ? (I don't like gpe) |
| 03:16.07 | Kevin` | i've been using pdaxrom but it has other problems :/ |
| 03:16.51 | dhr | I'm not really up to speed on the choices. Perhaps Ubuntu or OpenBSD ports take that approach. |
| 03:17.22 | dhr | There is an enlightenment port of some kind. Don't know what that is like. |
| 03:17.24 | Kevin` | I didn't know there was an ubuntu port O_o |
| 03:18.36 | Kevin` | I never really liked bsd for some reason |
| 03:19.23 | dhr | I think I read that there was a ubunto port started. Not sure. I'm not interested because it would be a bit ungainly on the Z, I think. |
| 03:20.00 | JustinP | dhr: they say that all of the Cxx00 have USB2 on some sites |
| 03:20.18 | JustinP | dhr: the 3000 absolutely does not have USB2 and I really doubt the 3200 is different |
| 03:20.25 | JustinP | e17 works fine in OZ |
| 03:20.48 | JustinP | Kevin`: e17 is a "normal" wm and works well (although it's "pre-alpha") |
| 03:20.58 | JustinP | Kevin`: I believe fluxbox is there too but I don't know anything about it |
| 03:21.45 | Kevin` | how do you not install gpe.. or start an X server without it? |
| 03:22.22 | Kevin` | I tried building up what I wanted from the minimal version, but there weren't any packages related to that |
| 03:23.30 | JustinP | sure there are |
| 03:23.34 | JustinP | install the e-image... |
| 03:23.44 | JustinP | or install bootstrap and install e-wm and entrance |
| 03:23.58 | JustinP | or ask me nicely to build you an e-image ;-) |
| 03:24.30 | Kevin` | well that won't be neccisary if installing bootstrap then e-wm will work.. but I didn't see any packages for the X server itself |
| 03:24.36 | Kevin` | I suppose I could just try it.. |
| 03:24.58 | JustinP | xserver-kdrive |
| 03:25.28 | JustinP | install task-e-x11 |
| 03:25.56 | Kevin` | obtaining install files.. |
| 03:26.31 | JustinP | "ipkg install xserver-kdriver task-e-x11" |
| 03:27.07 | Kevin` | I have to install OZ first.. will be a moment |
| 03:27.48 | JustinP | you may also want the other packages in here: http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.oz354x/packages/meta/e-image.bb |
| 03:27.48 | Kevin` | I wonder why I didn't see those packages looking through the list before.. |
| 03:30.45 | Kevin` | oh, what are the packages for a standard dev envioronment, while i'm at it (gcc, make, and all) |
| 03:37.42 | Kevin` | mount: special device 192.168.182.3/media does not exist |
| 03:37.50 | JustinP | gcc, gcc-symlinks, binutils, binutils-symlinks, make, automake, autoconf |
| 03:37.58 | Kevin` | oh, : |
| 03:38.10 | JustinP | you may also want coreutils, findutils, grep |
| 03:38.19 | JustinP | the busybox versions leave something to be desired |
| 03:38.27 | Kevin` | indeed |
| 03:40.56 | tanq | i wonder how many more days until my sd card gets here.. |
| 03:41.06 | tanq | i should have just went to fry's and bought it. |
| 03:41.35 | Kevin` | sd storage? |
| 03:41.39 | tanq | yeah. |
| 03:41.54 | Kevin` | yeah you should have =p common thing |
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| 04:06.20 | Kevin` | JustinP what was the url for that repository you recommended again? went past my backlog before I could write it down |
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| 04:48.37 | Kevin` | which X server do I want for sl-c3200 (ati, epson, fbdev, i810, ?) |
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| 06:02.59 | Kevin` | how can I switch , and / on that key? I use / far more often then , |
| 06:03.26 | Kevin` | or put one of them on an unused key, I suppose |
| 06:03.37 | Kevin` | if there are any |
| 06:05.58 | pgas | there is a kernel keymap somewhere in /etc where you can change this (sorry I cannot be more precise) |
| 06:07.16 | Kevin` | how do you determine what code is what key |
| 06:10.53 | pgas | not sure (I use xev in X) but you'll find out rather easily if you find and open the keymap file ;) |
| 06:11.42 | Kevin` | what do the 'compose' lines mean |
| 06:13.10 | pgas | man loadkeys ( http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?loadkeys+1 ) |
| 06:14.28 | pgas | on the zaurus it probably defines the outcome of Fn+key |
| 06:16.22 | Kevin` | dont quite have a web browser yet ;) |
| 06:20.44 | pgas | hey :) |
| 06:20.46 | pgas | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:20.47 | pgas | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:21.13 | Kevin` | eh? whats ccedilla |
| 06:22.17 | pgas | ç <- do you see this char? |
| 06:22.29 | Kevin` | a and a squiggly |
| 06:22.39 | pgas | it's a c with a comma underneath |
| 06:22.48 | Kevin` | heh :) |
| 06:22.56 | pgas | it produces the sound 's' in french |
| 06:23.28 | Kevin` | well i'm using the normal OZ console right now, with ssh |
| 06:24.18 | pgas | it can also be me i'm also connected through ssh... and I'm not sure what coding problems I have |
| 06:24.40 | Kevin` | how do you calibrate the stylus? I just tried Xfbdev, clicked, then the X dissapeared somewhere |
| 06:25.06 | pgas | you have gpe? |
| 06:25.07 | Kevin` | also fn+leftright didnt change vty |
| 06:25.13 | Kevin` | no |
| 06:25.24 | pgas | yeah, in X you have to use chvt in a console |
| 06:25.46 | Kevin` | is there a way to fix that too? :) |
| 06:25.55 | pgas | hmm there is a tool but I don't know it's name....it generally does it with a normal install |
| 06:26.11 | Kevin` | I am using the minimal install, whatever thats called |
| 06:26.32 | Kevin` | don't really like gpe |
| 06:27.00 | pgas | hmm, patch the Xserver? or perhaps bind Fn+left to chvt? |
| 06:27.13 | pgas | Kevin`: it's probably called tscalibrate or something |
| 06:27.53 | Kevin` | I see an xtscal package that looks the most promising |
| 06:28.47 | Kevin` | ipkg takes rather long before it figures out exactly what to download and install |
| 06:31.21 | pgas | yeah, Oz claim that it's due to the big number of packages in the feed...I suspect that there is something not optimal in ipkg (for instance greping the name is very fast) but as I am not going to do anything about it.... |
| 06:32.13 | Kevin` | apt figures it out somehow :) |
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| 06:33.22 | pgas | well, you should also take into account that it is design to save spaces |
| 06:34.13 | pgas | yast finds packages almost instantly after a search (compared to synaptic) but I guess it stores a big index somewhere |
| 06:34.54 | Kevin` | root@spitz:~# xtscal |
| 06:34.54 | Kevin` | Can't open XFT font |
| 06:34.54 | Kevin` | Could not init font path element /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc, removing from list! |
| 06:34.55 | Kevin` | Could not init font path element /usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi, removing from list! |
| 06:34.55 | Kevin` | Could not init font path element /usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi, removing from list! |
| 06:34.55 | Kevin` | root@spitz:~# |
| 06:37.22 | dhr | kevin': when I said that I thought there was a ubuntu port for Z, I was misremembering. A debian port, but not very active http://people.debian.org/~mdz/zaurus/ |
| 06:38.55 | Kevin` | why can't I launch X programs? :/ |
| 06:39.01 | pgas | dhr: http:°wiki.debian.org/PocketWorkstation |
| 06:39.39 | pgas | Kevin`: you have a 3200 ? |
| 06:39.43 | Kevin` | yes |
| 06:40.13 | pgas | save your time install the gpe image and cope with the extra kilos of the gpe apps you will not use |
| 06:40.33 | Kevin` | heh I suppose.. |
| 06:40.44 | Kevin` | how can I not start gpe then |
| 06:40.58 | pgas | besides you can also ipkg remove a package |
| 06:40.58 | Kevin` | I want to use a different window manager, from 'startx' like command if possible |
| 06:42.21 | pgas | well chmod -x /etc/init.d/gpe-login (or something I don't rember the name of the gpe login manager) will prevent it to run |
| 06:43.33 | Kevin` | couldn't I just install the same packages that are in the gpe image and get an equivalent setup? |
| 06:44.34 | Kevin` | (I don't really want to do that, but looking at the list and comparing it would be helpful) |
| 06:44.40 | pgas | probably but you'll spend a lot of time to try to figure out which packages you need |
| 06:44.54 | pgas | and which you don't need |
| 06:45.56 | pgas | when you got a browser see this thread http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=20340 about changing the wm |
| 06:46.40 | Kevin` | I suppose I can use links, sitting on my server now so I could use X and still have a console (ssh) |
| 06:47.39 | pgas | install screen so that you can have multiple terminal |
| 06:48.37 | pgas | If you don't know about 'Gnu screen' spend some time to learn about it now! |
| 06:49.13 | Kevin` | i'm using it now, heh, I have 4 windows open in this screen session |
| 06:49.32 | Kevin` | one for irc, one I just closed, one for the zaurus, one for links |
| 06:49.58 | pgas | you can also see http://wiki.openzaurus.org/HowTos/OPIE_and_GPE |
| 06:50.14 | pgas | it describes the installation of gpe over an opie install |
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| 06:52.22 | Kevin` | oh, how do you right click, by default |
| 06:54.00 | pgas | don't know in oz.. |
| 06:54.15 | pgas | you can probably use xmodmap -e "pointer = 3 2 1" in a shell ;) |
| 06:54.26 | Kevin` | what would that do? |
| 06:54.39 | pgas | change the order of the mouse buttons |
| 06:55.12 | Kevin` | how can I make it use a key+tap for right click, as pdaxrom does |
| 06:55.31 | Kevin` | (fn for right, shift for middle, if I remember correctly) |
| 06:56.46 | pgas | I think sashz has patched the xserver to get this behaviour |
| 06:57.30 | Kevin` | well good for him, how do I get it working on mine? :) |
| 06:58.09 | Kevin` | oh, related to that, how can you compile oz apps, kernel, etc on a zaurus |
| 06:58.31 | pgas | fill a bug in the oe bugtracker and request this feature ;) (unless it's allready there and I don't know about it) |
| 06:59.30 | Kevin` | i'd do it myself if I could find the patches used and a way to compile apps on the zaurus |
| 07:00.23 | pgas | you can perhaps start with this: http://openzaurus.berlios.de/Howto_%28probably%29_compile_emacs_from_cvs_on_oz/gpe_3.5.4.1rc4%29 |
| 07:01.35 | pgas | the Zaurus kernel pages states that it's a bit difficult to find the correct patches set and the order in which to apply them with OpenEmbedded |
| 07:02.45 | Kevin` | doesn't it do that all automatically or something? |
| 07:03.24 | pgas | sure OE does, but it's for cross-compilation not native compilation |
| 07:03.56 | pgas | http://www.rpsys.net/openzaurus/ |
| 07:06.17 | Kevin` | well is there anything stopping me from using OE in the normal way on the zaurus? |
| 07:06.29 | Kevin` | it's actually the device with the most free space I have right now :/ |
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| 07:09.02 | pgas | except that it is not tested, that perhaps not all requirements are readily available, will takes ages , probably requires a big swap and more space that your 6 G you mean? |
| 07:09.30 | Kevin` | it needs more then 6gb? |
| 07:09.41 | Kevin` | but yes, other then that |
| 07:09.53 | pgas | depending on what you build it could |
| 07:10.36 | pgas | source and non-strip object files tend to use a lot of space |
| 07:10.44 | Kevin` | well i'd need more space in any case then |
| 07:10.54 | Kevin` | my computer here doesn't have that much |
| 07:11.19 | pgas | plus compilation tends to use a lot of ram |
| 07:11.54 | pgas | I think on the oe site the requirements say something about 512 Meg of ram |
| 07:12.18 | Kevin` | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:12.19 | Kevin` | Mem: 253852 233488 20364 0 8816 145944 |
| 07:12.19 | Kevin` | -/+ buffers/cache: 78728 175124 |
| 07:12.19 | Kevin` | Swap: 1510028 0 1510028 |
| 07:12.19 | Kevin` | :/ |
| 07:14.54 | pgas | also for kernel hacking and openembedded try to ask in #oe |
| 07:15.32 | Kevin` | well I don't really need to hack the kernel yet, although i'm sure I will at some point.. I just want to right click :) |
| 07:19.13 | pgas | install xmonobut |
| 07:19.54 | pgas | it's a small taskbar applet that changes the default mouse button (and cursor icon) |
| 07:20.09 | pgas | it also handles keyboard shortcut IIRC |
| 07:20.30 | Kevin` | noted |
| 07:34.04 | hrw|work | morning |
| 07:34.20 | pgas | hi hrw|work |
| 07:36.02 | hrw|work | with 'rm_work' usage of diskspace is not so heavy |
| 07:36.55 | hrw|work | you can fit in 2-3G of space |
| 07:37.08 | hrw|work | 512M of memory is not needed since months |
| 07:37.55 | Kevin` | how much IS needed? |
| 07:38.09 | hrw|work | ram? |
| 07:38.13 | Kevin` | yes |
| 07:38.38 | hrw|work | I suppose that it would not fit in 64M ram without swap |
| 07:39.36 | Kevin` | would it work reasonably with the 247 I have now? |
| 07:40.25 | hrw|work | probably |
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| 11:55.30 | mimecar | hi |
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| 17:33.46 | mimecar | hey hrw |
| 17:33.51 | hrw | ho |
| 17:34.27 | mimecar | how how ? |
| 17:34.34 | hrw | collie/3.5.4.2-rc2-opie = 13.7M :( |
| 17:35.02 | mimecar | but you have 16 MB, haven't you ? |
| 17:35.31 | hrw | 14.4 |
| 17:35.49 | mimecar | 700 KB |
| 17:36.00 | mimecar | :( |
| 17:36.23 | hrw | and only collie block 3.5.4.2-rc2 |
| 17:37.04 | mimecar | without aps? |
| 17:37.12 | hrw | ? |
| 17:37.30 | mimecar | only the basic system, without contacts or datebook... |
| 17:37.48 | hrw | yep |
| 17:37.53 | hrw | base system take most |
| 17:38.48 | mimecar | what's the size on 3.5.4.2 rc 1? |
| 17:41.13 | hvontres|poodle | ~lart locomo sd interface |
| 17:42.00 | hvontres|poodle | hrw: I was going to suggest something akin to CoreDumps split and realized that on a 2.6 collie you can't move root to SD :( |
| 17:42.06 | *** join/#openzaurus Kerwood (n=Marshall@69-174-191-58.frdrmd.adelphia.net) |
| 17:42.45 | hvontres|poodle | however, I think for poodles, his split makes a lot of sense. you can get a pretty good system setup just by using / and /home |
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| 17:47.36 | hrw | 12887900 for minimal-opie-image/collie |
| 17:48.03 | hrw | 13M |
| 17:48.51 | mimecar | hrw: do you compile with all the optimizations enable, don't you ' |
| 17:49.26 | hrw | all standard opt |
| 17:50.13 | mimecar | but you create an image for a "closed" system |
| 17:50.24 | mimecar | except modules for extra devices.. |
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| 18:32.25 | mimecar | hrw: is image size increaed with kernel 2.6 (vs 2.4) ? |
| 18:32.29 | hrw | yes |
| 18:32.31 | hrw | we had to move many things from kernel to modules |
| 18:32.32 | mimecar | do you add all the posible hardware ? |
| 18:32.33 | hrw | many things |
| 18:32.33 | mimecar | and build a minimal version and add modules in entra package ? |
| 18:33.14 | mimecar | for example => wifi-modules, extra-modules... |
| 18:33.15 | hrw | no |
| 18:33.15 | mimecar | on small memory device, user can move the system to sd and increase free space |
| 18:33.15 | hrw | wifi, bt are in image |
| 18:33.15 | mimecar | ok |
| 18:33.15 | hrw | collie/2.6 lack sd |
| 18:33.15 | mimecar | ok |
| 18:33.18 | agaffney | is it just the threat of the DCMA that keeps someone from reverse engineering the driver for the collie SD? |
| 18:33.29 | hrw | lack of time and motivation? |
| 18:33.47 | hrw | we do not have good kernel hacker working on collie/2.6 |
| 18:33.51 | agaffney | hmm |
| 18:34.05 | agaffney | unfortunately, my coding skills do not include kernel hacking |
| 18:34.41 | hrw | neither do mine |
| 18:35.00 | mimecar | kernel hack needs more skills |
| 18:35.13 | agaffney | the kernel is a complex beast |
| 18:35.41 | agaffney | so you need to be knowledgeable in kernel internals and good at reverse engineering a binary |
| 18:35.42 | mimecar | do poodle and collie use diferent sd modules ? |
| 18:35.46 | agaffney | I believe so |
| 18:35.56 | agaffney | I think it's just Collie that uses the one with the crappy binary driver |
| 18:36.06 | mimecar | then, tne only solution at the moment |
| 18:36.16 | mimecar | collie kernel 2.4 and next models 2.6 |
| 18:37.20 | hrw | under 2.4 all zauruses use binary crap |
| 18:37.30 | hrw | under 2.6 all pxa models use opensource driver |
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| 18:39.03 | mimecar_ | fuck network |
| 18:40.42 | mimecar_2 | better |
| 18:42.16 | mimecar_2 | hrw: and the subject related with the task priority... |
| 18:42.37 | hrw | ? |
| 18:42.49 | mimecar_2 | will be a final option or is only a test ? |
| 18:43.01 | mimecar_2 | (I didn't see the forum lastly) |
| 18:44.34 | mimecar_2 | http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=21120&st=0 |
| 18:44.52 | hrw | a.. Bounties.. |
| 18:45.52 | mimecar_2 | yes |
| 18:46.24 | hrw | did not thinked about it yet |
| 18:47.03 | mimecar_2 | I think for special or rare apps would be an interesting option |
| 18:47.35 | mimecar_2 | for example, increase velocity of program X on zaurus... or fix bugs |
| 18:47.49 | mimecar_2 | that aren't related with a base system |
| 18:55.26 | mimecar_2 | goodbye mimecar |
| 18:57.29 | hrw | flasing collie... |
| 18:57.45 | mimecar_2 | good luck |
| 19:26.30 | Kerwood | ~seen pb_ |
| 19:26.43 | ibot | pb_ <n=pb@82-70-217-41.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 4d 7h 46m 55s ago, saying: 'how is sbrshd different from regular ssh?'. |
| 19:26.43 | Kerwood | ~seen pb__ |
| 19:26.45 | ibot | pb__ <n=pb@cpc1-cmbg6-0-0-cust434.cmbg.cable.ntl.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 3d 6h 59m 17s ago, saying: 'hi philippe'. |
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| 23:03.10 | darkschneider | hrw|gone: audio is supposed to workon pooble with rc1 ? |
| 23:08.10 | *** join/#openzaurus redguy (n=mati@act32.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 23:48.31 | *** join/#openzaurus synth (n=fhqwhgad@c-71-203-19-17.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |