| 00:01.56 | file | who tried to install Win2k? |
| 00:04.02 | captain_proton | scanline: i'm seeing a segfault inside of SDL_mutexP - is that right? |
| 00:04.10 | scanline | captain_proton: svn up |
| 00:04.17 | scanline | it's still segfaulting, but in a different place now |
| 00:04.41 | scanline | #3 0x400edb93 in gl_bind_texture (glb=0x80e1) at gl_util.c:451 |
| 00:04.55 | scanline | that glb pointer is very non-right |
| 00:05.37 | captain_proton | its like the thread thats calling the skybox init doesn't know about the gl context |
| 00:05.43 | scanline | nah |
| 00:06.13 | scanline | it's looking like the PGTexture constructor threw an exception that was ignored |
| 00:07.08 | scanline | thanks, I was running low |
| 00:07.35 | captain_proton | if your exceptions inherited from std::runtime_error, we could tell gcc3 to put a global catch that says what was thrown :) |
| 00:07.55 | scanline | I looked at std::runtime_error, but it would make things hard |
| 00:08.01 | scanline | it expects we can retrieve the error as a string |
| 00:08.14 | scanline | that's hard with python exceptions since it prints a stack backtrace in pieces |
| 00:09.20 | captain_proton | we don't even need std::runtime_error (although the global handler prints what() ) |
| 00:09.21 | captain_proton | std::set_terminate (__gnu_cxx::__verbose_terminate_handler); |
| 00:09.43 | captain_proton | it demangles the name of what was thrown and prints that out |
| 00:09.52 | scanline | that's neat |
| 00:14.09 | darth_tutor | god I love sluggy |
| 00:14.47 | file | why |
| 00:15.30 | *** join/#picogui Viv (Viv@aden2-41-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 00:15.52 | darth_tutor | cuz it's way funny |
| 00:16.03 | darth_tutor | it makes me happy the way Love Hina makes me happy |
| 00:16.37 | Viv | hmm |
| 00:18.55 | darth_tutor | who said I was waving back? I just waved |
| 00:19.00 | darth_tutor | ;) |
| 00:19.12 | file | a tutor of course |
| 00:21.09 | file | no, your Vivyan |
| 00:21.18 | darth_tutor | file: I am an evil tutor though, cuz the term darth denotes much evilness ;) |
| 00:21.33 | file | darth_tutor: who are you tutoring right now? |
| 00:21.45 | darth_tutor | that's why, according to Jon Stewart, the villain in episode 3 will be called darth darth ^_^ |
| 00:22.03 | darth_tutor | file: I'm not actually tutoring anyone right now, I'm just availble for people who would like to be tutored |
| 00:22.05 | file | rrrrrrrrrrrright |
| 00:22.21 | file | darth_tutor: what, you just sit there? |
| 00:22.26 | darth_tutor | ya |
| 00:22.30 | darth_tutor | unless someone comes in |
| 00:22.36 | file | where? |
| 00:22.43 | darth_tutor | the Writing Center at school |
| 00:22.52 | file | it's empty? |
| 00:22.57 | darth_tutor | ya |
| 00:23.03 | darth_tutor | I didn't have any appointments today |
| 00:23.06 | file | muahahahahahaha |
| 00:23.10 | darth_tutor | so I just sit around in case there are any drop ins |
| 00:23.15 | darth_tutor | but there aren't |
| 00:23.23 | darth_tutor | in fact, I could probably leave now |
| 00:23.30 | file | nah - stay |
| 00:23.35 | darth_tutor | cuz I get off in like 5 minutes and 5 minutes isn't long enough to help anyone |
| 00:23.45 | darth_tutor | but I'll wait a few minutes |
| 00:23.59 | darth_tutor | writing |
| 00:24.05 | darth_tutor | I help kids w/ their papers |
| 00:28.15 | merlin{igen} | hi Vivyan |
| 00:29.47 | darth_tutor | well, time to split |
| 00:29.48 | darth_tutor | ttyl |
| 00:33.48 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@12-252-79-211.client.attbi.com) |
| 00:34.02 | gonkulator | PicoBot: seen Vivyan |
| 00:34.03 | PicoBot | Vivyan was last seen on #picogui 6 minutes and 45 seconds ago, saying: yawns [Tue Dec 3 17:32:06 2002] |
| 00:34.12 | gonkulator | AoFBot: seen file |
| 00:34.12 | AoFBot | I don't know about thatgonkulator. |
| 00:34.18 | gonkulator | PicoBot: seen file |
| 00:34.18 | PicoBot | file was last seen on #picogui 10 minutes and 48 seconds ago, saying: nah - stay [Tue Dec 3 17:28:18 2002] |
| 00:34.27 | file | file located. |
| 00:34.29 | file | hello gonkulator. |
| 00:34.32 | gonkulator | hi file |
| 00:34.37 | file | hello gonkulator |
| 00:44.07 | darth_iBook | gonkulator: guess what |
| 00:50.02 | darth_iBook | how do I start X in gentoo? |
| 00:54.36 | merlin{igen} | >:) |
| 00:55.00 | darth_iBook | merlin{igen}: do you know how to start X in gentoo? |
| 00:55.07 | merlin{igen} | startx |
| 00:55.08 | gonkulator | darth_iBook: as root, run xf86cfg |
| 00:55.09 | merlin{igen} | one would guess |
| 00:55.20 | gonkulator | merlin{igen}: he needs to configure X still |
| 00:55.35 | merlin{igen} | xfs is the shiznit |
| 00:55.44 | darth_iBook | gonkulator: command not found |
| 00:55.51 | gonkulator | ok |
| 00:55.54 | gonkulator | emerge xchat |
| 00:56.11 | darth_iBook | yay! /me likes emerging |
| 00:56.14 | darth_iBook | I agree |
| 00:56.19 | darth_iBook | k, done emerging |
| 00:56.29 | gonkulator | done emerging xchat... already? |
| 00:56.35 | gonkulator | ok, exit and login again |
| 00:56.45 | darth_iBook | couldn't download jpegsrc.v6b.tar.gz |
| 00:56.49 | darth_iBook | aborted |
| 00:56.54 | gonkulator | hmm... |
| 00:56.56 | gonkulator | emerge pwm |
| 00:57.23 | Vivyan | ahhhh gonkulator used the word 'pwn' ahhh |
| 00:57.41 | gonkulator | Vivyan: pwM |
| 00:57.43 | darth_iBook | hmm... couldn't download freetype-2.1.2.tar.bz2 |
| 00:57.51 | gonkulator | ping yahoo.com |
| 00:57.57 | Vivyan | blah blah |
| 00:58.00 | darth_iBook | dammit |
| 00:58.17 | darth_iBook | unknown host |
| 00:58.24 | *** part/#picogui Vivyan (Viv@aden2-41-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 00:58.49 | file | I wanna fly |
| 00:58.53 | merlin{igen} | bbiab |
| 00:59.32 | darth_iBook | hmm |
| 00:59.42 | gonkulator | darth_iBook: is the module for the network card loaded? |
| 00:59.55 | darth_iBook | I think so |
| 00:59.57 | darth_iBook | how can I tell? |
| 01:00.00 | gonkulator | lsmod |
| 01:00.06 | gonkulator | and /msg me with the output |
| 01:02.26 | gonkulator | scanline: what did you do? |
| 01:04.49 | *** join/#picogui Vivyan (Viv@aden2-41-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 01:05.49 | darth_iBook | wb Vivyan |
| 01:21.38 | file | too lazy |
| 01:22.51 | Xentac | my brother is a fucking moron |
| 01:22.54 | darth_iBook | <quack quack> |
| 01:22.58 | darth_iBook | wb Xentac |
| 01:23.05 | file | Xentac! |
| 01:23.07 | darth_iBook | why is your bro dumb? |
| 01:23.08 | file | Xentac: what happened? |
| 01:23.13 | Xentac | we have a bet |
| 01:23.16 | Xentac | had |
| 01:23.21 | darth_iBook | ok |
| 01:23.26 | Xentac | he goes to karate, tonight (we made the fucking bet last wednesday) |
| 01:23.31 | Xentac | and if it's too hard, I shave my goatee... |
| 01:23.33 | Xentac | (for 3 months) |
| 01:23.39 | Xentac | if it's easy he goes to classes for 3 months |
| 01:23.43 | file | oh my |
| 01:23.57 | Xentac | now he's out fucking smoking up and wants "to change it to tomorrow" |
| 01:24.05 | darth_iBook | he could just say it's too hard |
| 01:24.06 | file | Xentac: shave the goatee anyway |
| 01:24.12 | Xentac | we have to agree on it |
| 01:24.24 | Xentac | tonight's warmup, we set up christmas lights |
| 01:24.28 | Xentac | but that's not the point |
| 01:24.58 | Xentac | instead, even though we had the fucking bet... I reminded him 4 fucking times... he still goes and fucks all of this fucking shit up by going and smoking pot and getting fucking high |
| 01:25.00 | Xentac | what a fucking loser |
| 01:25.13 | darth_iBook | hehe |
| 01:25.18 | Xentac | why do I fucking try? |
| 01:25.40 | file | take pictures and blackmail him |
| 01:25.42 | darth_iBook | cuz it's fun? |
| 01:25.50 | darth_iBook | file: that won't really help |
| 01:25.57 | Xentac | no, I just figure I'll tell sensei that he defaulted cause he's out smoking pot again |
| 01:25.58 | darth_iBook | Xentac: how old is he? |
| 01:25.58 | file | darth_iBook: still be fun |
| 01:26.03 | Xentac | 18 |
| 01:26.13 | darth_iBook | ah |
| 01:27.25 | Xentac | so instead he goes and fucking defaults |
| 01:27.28 | Xentac | cause he's a fucking moron |
| 01:27.42 | Xentac | he was the one that wanted me to shave my goatee, I didn't suggest it |
| 01:27.44 | Xentac | what an asshole |
| 01:32.10 | file | Xentac: be calm |
| 01:36.51 | gonkulator | Xentac: what does it mean to default? |
| 01:39.06 | Xentac | gonkulator: means he lost the bet |
| 01:39.23 | gonkulator | Xentac: oh, ok |
| 01:39.28 | Xentac | now my dad's so pissed that he told ant to be more responsible, or leave |
| 01:40.17 | Xentac | and now I have to go get mcdonalds for dinner... cause everyone's so pissed off (except ashley) that no one wants to make anything |
| 01:40.31 | gonkulator | take ashley with you |
| 01:40.34 | gonkulator | and tell her I said hi |
| 01:59.09 | Xentac | other chores to do, and eat, and go to karate |
| 01:59.51 | *** join/#picogui darth_balls (~darth_bal@resnet401.fortlewis.edu) |
| 01:59.57 | darth_balls | athena hates me |
| 02:24.09 | *** join/#picogui flexo_ (~flexo@pD9E1648B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:36.23 | gonkulator | PicoBot: seen ahnkana_ |
| 02:36.23 | PicoBot | ahnkana_ was last seen on #picogui 14 days, 20 hours, 7 minutes and 18 seconds ago, saying: odd [Mon Nov 18 23:33:54 2002] |
| 02:36.31 | gonkulator | PicoBot: seen ahnkana |
| 02:36.31 | PicoBot | ahnkana was last seen on #picogui 1 days, 56 minutes and 32 seconds ago, saying: scanline: so exactly how much of ass did i make of myself when i said that the YUV oggled at you, ect. [Mon Dec 2 18:44:48 2002] |
| 03:00.58 | *** join/#picogui merlin262 (~andrew@crtntx1-ar1-4-60-243-225.crtntx1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 03:02.02 | merlin262 | but I don't have dualhead workign yet. |
| 03:04.43 | flexo | hm |
| 03:04.47 | flexo | 4:10am |
| 03:04.52 | flexo | history test today |
| 03:04.53 | flexo | hm |
| 03:05.05 | flexo | i still have to learn for it |
| 03:06.02 | *** join/#picogui njs (njs@12-232-144-227.client.attbi.com) |
| 03:08.03 | *** join/#picogui Cambo (mmmeeee@cm216036165101.westman.wave.ca) |
| 03:15.17 | captain_proton | scanline: you wanted something of me? |
| 03:24.25 | *** join/#picogui dakoda (cwright@ACA4802B.ipt.aol.com) |
| 03:59.09 | ahnkana_ | 01,9915: 1112http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf01 01,99 |
| 03:59.42 | ahnkana_ | click on the horses |
| 04:02.22 | *** join/#picogui laodamas (~laodamas@bakr23-191-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 04:04.41 | merlin262 | mwahahhahahahha |
| 04:04.41 | merlin262 | =D |
| 04:21.45 | *** join/#picogui captain_proton (~jupiter@aden2-23-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 04:24.32 | ahnkana_ | http://www.flaboratorium.org/data/flabor/4/4.htm |
| 04:25.51 | laodamas | create_general_protection_fault() |
| 04:27.23 | merlin262 | cat /dev/random > /dev/kmem |
| 04:27.35 | merlin262 | go ahead, try it, as root, you know you want to |
| 04:29.27 | *** join/#picogui captain_proton (~jupiter@aden2-23-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 04:30.32 | ahnkana | may i http://www.flaboratorium.org/data/flabor/4/4.htm |
| 04:30.38 | ahnkana | opps |
| 04:30.40 | ahnkana | sorry |
| 04:44.12 | captain_proton | hrmph |
| 04:44.25 | ahnkana | make hroses sing |
| 04:44.27 | ahnkana | 01,9915 1112http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf01 01,99 |
| 04:44.41 | lurgyman | how 'bout everybody comes and watches the prisoner when lurgy finishes his ear training homework? |
| 04:44.48 | ahnkana | it requires flash |
| 04:44.57 | ahnkana | i have to do the clac still |
| 04:45.01 | ahnkana | and i don't want to |
| 04:45.04 | ahnkana | is it hard? |
| 04:45.10 | lurgyman | there's one hard problem |
| 04:45.13 | lurgyman | the rest are ok |
| 04:45.15 | ahnkana | which? |
| 04:45.24 | lurgyman | mmmm.... 38, i think |
| 04:45.28 | lurgyman | i haven't done it yet |
| 04:45.48 | lurgyman | or 42 or 43 |
| 04:45.53 | lurgyman | no, 36 |
| 04:45.56 | lurgyman | not 38 |
| 04:45.59 | lurgyman | is the hard one |
| 04:46.05 | ahnkana | how do you know then? lol |
| 04:46.15 | ahnkana | ok |
| 04:46.19 | lurgyman | i looked at it then went to lunch :p |
| 04:46.23 | ahnkana | lol |
| 04:47.01 | *** join/#picogui Kidder (kidders@h24-65-171-188.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 04:47.04 | captain_proton | ahnkana: that was entertaining |
| 04:47.33 | lurgyman | ahnkana: if you finish up to #36, you can come up here and we can finish that |
| 04:47.45 | lurgyman | ahnkana: and then we can watch the prisoner! |
| 04:48.21 | lurgyman | ahnkana: or you can come up earlier... |
| 04:48.29 | lurgyman | ahnkana: but then you have to listen to my ear training homework |
| 04:48.41 | lurgyman | ahnkana: and you don't want to do that |
| 04:49.33 | ahnkana | lol, k |
| 04:49.46 | ahnkana | what time are you guys heading over tomarrow? |
| 04:49.48 | ahnkana | 615? |
| 04:50.00 | lurgyman | over? |
| 04:50.01 | lurgyman | where? |
| 04:50.02 | captain_proton | heading over...? |
| 04:50.19 | lurgyman | je suis confuse |
| 04:50.42 | lurgyman | with an acute accent over the e at the end of confuse |
| 04:51.13 | lurgyman | here it is: confusé |
| 04:51.20 | captain_proton | 'those confused swiss' ? |
| 04:51.50 | lurgyman | haha, that would be 'Les Suisses sont confusés' |
| 04:51.54 | lurgyman | i think |
| 04:52.03 | ahnkana | to the rehersal |
| 04:52.12 | lurgyman | er, confusées |
| 04:52.14 | captain_proton | i don't have a rehearsal tomorrow evening |
| 04:52.15 | ahnkana | the swiss are confued? |
| 04:52.16 | lurgyman | what's this about heading over? |
| 04:52.24 | ahnkana | sorry thursday |
| 04:52.39 | lurgyman | what's this about heading over on thursday? |
| 04:54.07 | ahnkana | hehe |
| 05:02.14 | ahnkana | lurgyman: prolly no prisoner for me tonight...i am a prisoner, of procrastination |
| 05:02.22 | ahnkana | and i am also a # |
| 05:02.34 | ahnkana | lol, i am a college student! |
| 05:02.51 | *** join/#picogui darth_balls (~darth_bal@resnet401.fortlewis.edu) |
| 05:05.57 | Xentac | where the hell do I go to get gentoo help? |
| 05:06.07 | darth_balls | wish I knew |
| 05:06.09 | darth_balls | I need some too |
| 05:06.15 | Xentac | #gentoo doesn't help |
| 05:06.17 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@12-252-79-211.client.attbi.com) |
| 05:06.22 | Xentac | they're just bickering and complaining about stuff |
| 05:06.28 | Xentac | gonkulator: where do I go to get gentoo help? |
| 05:06.38 | gonkulator | Xentac: #gentoo? |
| 05:06.43 | Xentac | I wish |
| 05:06.51 | Xentac | they're complaining about ISP tech support |
| 05:06.59 | gonkulator | oh |
| 05:07.23 | Xentac | and last time I asked someone made mention of "gcc 2.95 is soooo passe", he at least acknowledge what I was asking |
| 05:07.24 | Xentac | but that's all |
| 05:07.36 | lurgyman | ahnkana: ok |
| 05:07.45 | gonkulator | gcc 2.95 is old... |
| 05:07.55 | Xentac | so how do I replace it with gcc 3.2? |
| 05:07.57 | Xentac | I emerged it |
| 05:08.00 | Xentac | and now I have gcc-3.2 |
| 05:08.04 | Xentac | but gcc is still 2.95.3 |
| 05:08.09 | Xentac | I removed gcc 2.95.3 |
| 05:08.11 | gonkulator | you have to do some other things |
| 05:08.14 | Xentac | and lost my gcc binary all together |
| 05:08.20 | Xentac | so I tried gcc-config |
| 05:08.21 | gonkulator | emerge soffice will explain it |
| 05:08.25 | Xentac | and that tool is a piece |
| 05:08.38 | Xentac | because /etc/env.d/gcc doesn't exit |
| 05:08.40 | Xentac | er exist |
| 05:14.04 | *** join/#picogui hikke (piste@drinking.olvi.cx) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:14.30 | merlin262 | bleep! |
| 05:14.43 | *** join/#picogui merlin{igen} (~amccall@crtntx1-ar1-4-60-243-225.crtntx1.dsl-verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:16.21 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@12-252-79-211.client.attbi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:16.21 | *** join/#picogui Kidder (kidders@h24-65-171-188.gv.shawcable.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:16.21 | *** join/#picogui PicoBot (~PicoBot@aden2-241-dhcp.Colorado.EDU) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:16.21 | *** join/#picogui Xentac (~jchu@amga45cyy30x9.bc.hsia.telus.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:16.38 | Xentac | what is soffice? |
| 05:16.38 | Xentac | "emerge: there are no masked or unmasked ebuilds to satisfy "soffice"" |
| 05:16.46 | gonkulator | star office |
| 05:16.49 | gonkulator | or.. open office |
| 05:17.04 | Xentac | lovely... |
| 05:17.05 | Xentac | are we alive again? |
| 05:17.09 | Xentac | why do I want star office/open office? |
| 05:17.11 | Xentac | but they still don't exist |
| 05:17.38 | gonkulator | I got the instructions on how to upgrade my version of GCC by trying to install open office |
| 05:18.24 | Xentac | ok... we'll see if I get any instructions... |
| 05:18.29 | Xentac | though somehow... I have doubts |
| 05:20.36 | merlin262 | Xentac: upgarde to gentoo 1.4! |
| 05:20.46 | Xentac | merlin262: how the hell do I do that? |
| 05:20.57 | merlin262 | erm.... |
| 05:21.08 | merlin262 | mkfs.xfs /dev/hda2 |
| 05:21.14 | merlin262 | mount /dev/hda2 /mnt |
| 05:21.21 | merlin262 | cd /mnt; tar -zxf stage3.tar.gz |
| 05:21.21 | merlin262 | =P |
| 05:21.31 | Xentac | ummm... I can't just upgrade? |
| 05:21.42 | merlin262 | emerge world |
| 05:21.47 | Xentac | I can't just say, "use these package files instead" |
| 05:21.53 | Xentac | emerge world doesn't work |
| 05:21.59 | merlin262 | hrm. |
| 05:22.02 | Xentac | because it can't figure out what gives me ogmtools |
| 05:26.32 | gonkulator | Xentac: have you looked at gentoo.org? |
| 05:26.50 | gonkulator | there are a set of four shell scripts that they have to do the upgrade |
| 05:27.01 | Xentac | no, I haven't |
| 05:27.20 | gonkulator | and TFM is gentoo.org |
| 05:27.45 | captain_proton | ding dong |
| 05:28.44 | merlin262 | oh hell |
| 05:29.01 | Xentac | great... |
| 05:29.01 | gonkulator | what happened to merlin262/ |
| 05:29.17 | Xentac | and I get a listing of the perl script that's supposed to do the search for me... |
| 05:31.14 | gonkulator | Xentac: your best bet is to back up your /etc and /home and do a fresh install |
| 05:31.38 | njs | ... of debian. |
| 05:31.41 | Xentac | yeah... and have to futz will all the patches and everything that I needed originally to get my laptop working |
| 05:31.52 | gonkulator | yeah... |
| 05:31.56 | gonkulator | its up to you |
| 05:32.02 | Xentac | and have to wait days for all of my packages to compile |
| 05:32.31 | Xentac | and re-configure all of my applications/services... |
| 05:35.24 | captain_proton | hrmph |
| 05:49.33 | lurgyman | poke poke poke |
| 05:49.49 | captain_proton | PicoBot: POKE |
| 05:49.54 | captain_proton | PicoBot: POKE POKE |
| 05:49.54 | PicoBot | quit that! |
| 05:51.25 | *** join/#picogui merlin262 (~andrew@crtntx1-ar1-4-60-243-225.crtntx1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 05:51.53 | merlin262 | WTF can't i get gentoo to run stable |
| 05:51.54 | merlin262 | argghhhhhhhhhh |
| 05:52.19 | merlin262 | Opps! Opps! |
| 05:52.28 | captain_proton | opps? |
| 05:54.12 | Xentac | merlin262: I'm switching to arch... |
| 05:54.48 | merlin262 | captain_proton: kernel oppses |
| 05:55.02 | njs | merlin262: oh, like an oops, but misspelled? |
| 05:55.17 | merlin262 | bah! don't critisize my spelling |
| 05:55.20 | merlin262 | you'll be here all night |
| 05:55.42 | merlin262 | I'm convinced that gcc 3.x CAN NOT compile for athlon |
| 06:38.17 | *** part/#picogui lurgyman (~lurgyman@aden2-123-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 06:41.54 | *** join/#picogui lurgyman (~lurgyman@aden2-123-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 06:42.26 | lurgyman | wait... |
| 06:52.13 | *** join/#picogui merlin262 (~andrew@crtntx1-ar1-4-60-243-225.crtntx1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 06:52.16 | merlin262 | humph |
| 09:15.26 | *** join/#picogui scanline (~micah@aden2-142-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 09:52.15 | *** join/#picogui paqan (whaq@202.155.120.221) |
| 11:35.25 | *** join/#picogui file (~lan@mctn1-1832.nb.aliant.net) |
| 11:52.25 | *** join/#picogui anonyman (~peter@ip142166096051.nbtel.net) |
| 11:52.42 | file | time to walk to school in this... cold |
| 13:59.54 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@147.153.77.6) |
| 14:00.00 | gonkulator | PicoBot: seen Ao |
| 14:00.02 | PicoBot | I haven't seen 'Ao', gonkulator |
| 14:00.04 | gonkulator | PicoBot: seen AoFBot |
| 14:00.05 | PicoBot | AoFBot was last seen on #picogui 13 hours, 25 minutes and 56 seconds ago, saying: I don't know about thatgonkulator. [Tue Dec 3 17:39:01 2002] |
| 14:35.32 | *** join/#picogui flexo (~flexo@pD9538127.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:00.27 | *** join/#picogui prpplague (~JoeBob1@12.148.134.9) |
| 15:02.00 | gonkulator | hi Xentac |
| 15:02.06 | gonkulator | PicoBot: seen Xentac |
| 15:02.07 | PicoBot | Xentac was last seen on #picogui 20 minutes and 56 seconds ago, saying: is back (gone 05:32:12) [Wed Dec 4 07:46:03 2002] |
| 15:13.09 | Xentac | hi gonkulator |
| 15:13.13 | Xentac | bye gonkulator |
| 15:14.22 | *** join/#picogui carpman (~carpman@68-116-249-139.dntn.tx.charter.com) |
| 15:50.43 | *** join/#picogui rev (~rev@24-197-178-21.dul.mn.charter.com) |
| 16:02.06 | *** join/#picogui brandon (~brandon@CAT-98-DHCP-112-14.client.mscd.edu) |
| 16:02.10 | brandon | PicoBot: seen scanline |
| 16:02.11 | PicoBot | scanline was last seen on #picogui 14 hours, 30 minutes and 37 seconds ago, saying: pokes captain_proton [Tue Dec 3 18:36:26 2002] |
| 16:03.51 | gonkulator | ibot: seen PicoBot |
| 16:03.57 | | picobot is currently on #picogui (10h 47m 32s) #openzaurus (10h 47m 32s). Has said a total of 5 messages. Is idling for 1m 46s |
| 16:03.57 | gonkulator | ibot: spank |
| 16:03.58 | | ACTION megaspanks |
| 16:04.05 | gonkulator | PicoBot: make musifd |
| 16:04.06 | PicoBot | gonkulator: i'm not following you... |
| 16:04.07 | gonkulator | PicoBot: make music |
| 16:04.08 | PicoBot | ibot: twang! |
| 16:04.08 | | aofbot: badoing! |
| 16:04.09 | AoFBot | badoing! is foo |
| 16:04.14 | gonkulator | PicoBot: make music |
| 16:04.14 | PicoBot | ibot: twang! |
| 16:04.15 | | aofbot: badoing! |
| 16:04.16 | AoFBot | badoing! is foo |
| 16:04.22 | gonkulator | hehehe |
| 16:05.26 | carpman | hey |
| 16:08.37 | *** join/#picogui gonkey{iBook} (~brandon@Metro0276.client.mscd.edu) |
| 16:10.21 | carpman | gonkey{iBook}: whats up? |
| 16:11.58 | gonkey{iBook} | hey carpman |
| 16:12.01 | gonkey{iBook} | carpman: just chilling |
| 16:12.10 | gonkey{iBook} | downloading some enya from scanline |
| 16:12.12 | gonkey{iBook} | carpman: you? |
| 16:12.46 | carpman | not much, working on the file transfer client for AoF |
| 16:13.08 | carpman | hunting a trigun mp3 on gnutella |
| 16:14.28 | gonkey{iBook} | oh, ok :) |
| 16:15.40 | scanline | hi fellas |
| 16:16.05 | carpman | hey scanline |
| 16:19.45 | gonkey{iBook} | hi scanline |
| 16:19.51 | gonkey{iBook} | :) |
| 16:24.20 | gonkulator | I started a fire the last time I did that |
| 16:24.39 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:24.39 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:24.39 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:24.39 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:24.39 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:25.51 | gonkulator | scanline: cool |
| 16:26.04 | scanline | working on camera motion |
| 16:26.10 | gonkulator | except they usually call friction "drag" |
| 16:26.17 | scanline | this isn't for the ship |
| 16:26.22 | gonkulator | oh, ok |
| 16:26.31 | gonkulator | ERROR, YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR SHIPS |
| 16:26.47 | gonkulator | that HAS to be the death message :) |
| 16:27.21 | scanline | ha |
| 16:28.59 | carpman | gonkulator: I'm going to make --loose-ship a command line option for AoF >:) |
| 16:29.14 | gonkulator | carpman: sweet :) |
| 16:29.23 | gonkulator | that seems to be a PicoGUI inside joke :) |
| 16:29.52 | scanline | carpman: can AOF fork files? |
| 16:31.01 | *** topic/#picogui by gonkulator -> http://picogui.org || 0.43 released || If nobody here answers your question, try the pgui-devel mailing list || If it isn't file's fault, its a filthy LIE!!! || ERROR, YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR SHIPS |
| 16:31.17 | carpman | scanline: hmm... fork files? |
| 16:31.27 | scanline | carpman: as in fork() |
| 16:31.44 | carpman | I know fork, I have not heard of forking a file. |
| 16:32.02 | scanline | you will be able to copy a file, but only save modified pages.. copy-on-write |
| 16:32.06 | carpman | scanline: you could subclass an aof_stoage with that capability. |
| 16:33.07 | carpman | there aren't realy files in AoF, just key/data pairs. They happen to look alot like files tho. :) |
| 16:34.13 | captain_proton | scanline: it runs! it runs! |
| 16:34.18 | scanline | Jetstream will have an arbitrarily large world that will smoothly page in and out of memory, and will be modifiable :) |
| 16:34.20 | scanline | captain_proton: yay! |
| 16:34.31 | scanline | captain_proton: now you can stare in horror at the camera class I'm about to commit! |
| 16:34.40 | carpman | scanline: AoF wouldn't be good for that :) |
| 16:34.52 | carpman | unless you WANT to page over XML-RPC :) |
| 16:35.06 | scanline | haha |
| 16:35.07 | scanline | ok |
| 16:35.44 | captain_proton | scanline: it won't be horrible until we're slerping the quat to smoothly interpolate between camera angles |
| 16:36.11 | scanline | captain_proton: I have something almost working that might work |
| 16:36.37 | carpman | hehe, that sounds funny |
| 16:43.08 | captain_proton | i'm off |
| 16:46.21 | gonkulator | later captain_proton |
| 16:46.33 | gonkulator | scanline: finals are delaying my programming contest... |
| 16:49.47 | scanline | doh |
| 16:58.55 | takkaria | aw |
| 17:10.34 | *** join/#picogui rev|work (~rev@nomad97-234.d.umn.edu) |
| 17:16.45 | rev|work | cool |
| 17:16.47 | rev|work | IP over firewire |
| 17:40.00 | captain_proton | IP over avian carrier is better |
| 17:40.17 | scanline | cool stuff |
| 17:41.15 | captain_proton | ooh, i love this - on my exam: 50 - 4 + 5 = 50 |
| 17:41.36 | scanline | hehe |
| 17:41.43 | scanline | pentium math |
| 17:42.06 | captain_proton | indeed |
| 17:42.59 | captain_proton | quaternions make linear algebra worth knowing :) |
| 17:43.16 | captain_proton | well, i should get going for my next class, see yas |
| 17:43.59 | scanline | bye |
| 17:44.14 | takk|food | I love IP over avian carrier |
| 17:44.28 | takkaria | the scary thing is that that actually got implemented |
| 17:56.45 | *** join/#picogui laodamas (~laodamas@bakr23-191-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 18:15.06 | *** join/#picogui darth_balls (~darth_bal@resnet234.fortlewis.edu) |
| 18:15.08 | carpman | IP over avian carrier... |
| 18:15.19 | carpman | Read error: 114 (Shotgun) |
| 18:15.24 | *** part/#picogui rev|work (~rev@nomad97-234.d.umn.edu) |
| 18:26.17 | *** join/#picogui nemo (nemo@61.95.53.30) |
| 18:28.38 | *** join/#picogui Sophie[bot] (~notreal@davidpc.dnx.net) |
| 18:28.56 | Sophie[bot] | here I am. |
| 18:33.30 | darth_balls | hi Sophie[bot] |
| 18:36.01 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@Metro0276.client.mscd.edu) |
| 18:39.40 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@Metro0276.client.mscd.edu) |
| 18:39.46 | gonkulator | PicoBot: seen scanline |
| 18:39.46 | PicoBot | scanline was last seen on #picogui 55 minutes and 47 seconds ago, saying: bye [Wed Dec 4 10:48:52 2002] |
| 18:39.52 | gonkulator | doh |
| 18:40.34 | scanline | I'm not gone |
| 18:40.44 | darth_balls | wb scanline |
| 18:40.45 | darth_balls | ^_^ |
| 18:40.53 | scanline | I wasn't gone.. |
| 18:40.57 | scanline | I was saying bye to captain_proton |
| 18:41.06 | darth_balls | still, wb scanline ^_^ |
| 18:41.10 | darth_balls | hehe |
| 18:41.12 | scanline | uh.. thanls |
| 18:41.15 | scanline | err, thanks |
| 18:54.47 | *** join/#picogui smt (smt@ua24d9hel.dial.kolumbus.fi) |
| 19:37.05 | *** join/#picogui file (~lan@mctn1-3842.nb.aliant.net) |
| 19:44.42 | laodamas | 132 |
| 19:45.36 | Sophie[bot] | bot bot bot |
| 19:48.13 | *** join/#picogui laodamas (~laodamas@bakr23-191-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 20:03.29 | *** join/#picogui anonyman (~peter@ip142166096051.nbtel.net) |
| 20:03.48 | *** join/#picogui anonyman[emujr] (~anonyman[@ip142166096051.nbtel.net) |
| 20:10.02 | scanline | hey captain_proton.... |
| 20:10.12 | scanline | heard of Ogre? |
| 20:10.44 | captain_proton | scanline: yep - thats where i initially got the idea for the particle system method i've used in the last couple i've written |
| 20:11.03 | scanline | why not just use Ogre in jetstream? |
| 20:11.18 | scanline | after looking at it, I like the way it handles scene management, and it has Python support |
| 20:12.02 | captain_proton | its slow |
| 20:12.05 | scanline | ah |
| 20:12.15 | captain_proton | the API is beautiful but the implementation behind it still needs a lot of work |
| 20:12.26 | scanline | well, we could at least rip some math classes from it :) |
| 20:12.52 | scanline | also, I looked at Ogre's python code... it's using a rather nifty looking library that supposedly provides seamless python and C++ integration |
| 20:12.59 | scanline | might want to replace ScriptableObject with that |
| 20:13.16 | captain_proton | i'll probably rip a good portion of the quaternion code just because its tedious figuring out all the math :) |
| 20:13.23 | scanline | http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/ |
| 20:13.43 | captain_proton | oooh |
| 20:13.46 | captain_proton | that looks nifty |
| 20:13.56 | scanline | I got a Quat class mostly written, then got hung up on the slerp code... was googling for examples and found Ogre :) |
| 20:14.23 | captain_proton | slerp is pretty easy, i can implement that when i trot over to the office |
| 20:14.32 | captain_proton | or even before if i finish wading through my email |
| 20:14.43 | scanline | ok. it also needs conversions between quats, matrices, and angles |
| 20:15.07 | captain_proton | simple 'nuff |
| 20:16.21 | captain_proton | i see you wrote an animated vector class :) |
| 20:16.26 | scanline | hmm.. so Ogre is slow, and crystalspace has an ugly API? :) |
| 20:16.55 | scanline | captain_proton: it needs work... you can try it out by loading util/camera_test.py into the in-game editor and running it |
| 20:17.07 | captain_proton | crystalspace is even slower than ogre :) |
| 20:17.14 | captain_proton | and yeah, the CS api is disgusting |
| 20:17.27 | scanline | what makes ogre slow? |
| 20:17.39 | scanline | I noticed have a few extra abstraction layers... |
| 20:17.46 | scanline | DirectX support... heh. |
| 20:17.56 | scanline | s/have/they have/ |
| 20:18.03 | captain_proton | mostly its just because they don't do any of the optimization tricks for opengl |
| 20:19.54 | scanline | main problem with AnimatedVector is it tends to oscillate once it's reached the destination |
| 20:20.00 | captain_proton | scanline: camera_test jiggles :) |
| 20:20.05 | scanline | hehe, yep |
| 20:20.23 | captain_proton | its like skybox jello |
| 20:20.28 | scanline | plus I'm sure it would be better for rotation with quaternions |
| 20:20.58 | scanline | should probably define acceleration with a spline or something instead of the wacky method id uses now |
| 20:21.06 | scanline | s/id/it/ |
| 20:21.52 | carpman | lord, you guys are speaking in jibberish! :) |
| 20:22.09 | scanline | so.. if you need to simulate a camera mounted on a spring, the current AnimatedVector would do just fine :) |
| 20:22.17 | captain_proton | *boing* |
| 20:23.29 | scanline | captain_proton: having fun? |
| 20:23.45 | captain_proton | yeah i am |
| 20:23.47 | captain_proton | oooooo |
| 20:23.54 | captain_proton | i have a new episode of captain engineering! |
| 20:24.02 | scanline | hehe |
| 20:26.34 | file | the post office is dumb |
| 20:26.42 | file | it took them 5 minutes to figure out I could send my thing Xpresspost USA |
| 20:26.46 | file | then they forgot to charge me |
| 20:30.12 | captain_proton | hey, just about 5.4k lines of code not counting nuv :) |
| 20:30.29 | scanline | the fmod headers are about 1.2k, aren't they? |
| 20:31.01 | captain_proton | i'm not counting those either - just the stuff we've written |
| 20:31.06 | scanline | ah, ok |
| 20:31.06 | captain_proton | that isn't counting python either |
| 20:31.06 | scanline | wow |
| 20:31.10 | scanline | didn't realize it was so much |
| 20:31.26 | captain_proton | hah |
| 20:31.52 | scanline | ah.. sound manager is 1210hmm |
| 20:32.02 | scanline | s/hmm/\nhmm/ |
| 20:32.09 | scanline | micah@yoshi src $ wc *.cpp *.h | sort -n |
| 20:32.33 | captain_proton | don't you want wc -l? |
| 20:32.34 | scanline | SoundManager is 1210 lines, next biggest is ScriptableMethod.h at 265 lines :) |
| 20:32.39 | scanline | err, yeah |
| 20:35.02 | scanline | we could just use splines for the camera movement, but I wanted to try a simulation with velocity, acceleration, and friction first.. thought it might be more realistic |
| 20:35.24 | scanline | with fluid friction you can get the camera to attain terminal velocity :) |
| 20:35.40 | captain_proton | or instead of splines, we could just slerp |
| 20:36.02 | scanline | but that would be linear, right? |
| 20:36.28 | captain_proton | linear on the surface of a sphere |
| 20:36.39 | scanline | still linear... sorta |
| 20:36.41 | captain_proton | it doesn't feel linear, it feels smooth, with a capital Smoo |
| 20:36.46 | scanline | hehe |
| 20:36.46 | scanline | ok |
| 20:37.51 | scanline | we should be able to define a target for the camera to move to at any time.. but I guess that's handleable by slerping between the current position and the target with some constant weight? |
| 20:38.03 | captain_proton | uhhuh |
| 20:38.28 | scanline | that would make the velocity proportional to the distance to the target... so it would be like what the picogui camera does now :) |
| 20:40.42 | captain_proton | hi ho, hi ho, its off to "work" i go |
| 20:40.49 | scanline | have "fun" |
| 20:47.43 | *** join/#picogui file (~lan@mctn1-1053.nb.aliant.net) |
| 20:53.30 | *** join/#picogui otherproton (~jupiter@aden2-23-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 20:54.23 | file | otherproton: not enough protons! |
| 20:54.36 | otherproton | file: don't be so negative |
| 20:56.23 | carpman | neutrons are neutral, electrons are negative |
| 20:56.58 | file | carpman: I'm file - what did you expect? |
| 20:57.13 | carpman | electrons |
| 20:57.20 | file | no |
| 20:57.33 | carpman | yes |
| 20:58.11 | anonyman[emujr] | go easy carpman, he's a cocky teenager like me :) |
| 20:58.16 | otherproton | scanline: we should consider adding sin/cos/tan/etc lookup tables |
| 20:58.24 | otherproton | scanline: since slerp uses them so much |
| 20:58.41 | scanline | otherproton: might also want to make vector and quat all inlined if you're going to speed :) |
| 20:59.01 | otherproton | we can see how well it performs and do that if necessary |
| 20:59.11 | scanline | same with lookup tables |
| 20:59.12 | otherproton | no reason to optimize code unless its a bottleneck |
| 21:00.11 | scanline | I'd think normal matrix composition would be using more trig functions total than slerp... unless we use quaternions super-extensively for model animation |
| 21:01.32 | otherproton | scanline: what is the 'h' parameter you're passing to slerp? time? |
| 21:01.32 | scanline | http://www.cs.ubc.ca/nest/imager/contributions/forsey/dragon/hbsplines.html |
| 21:01.56 | scanline | otherproton: that's the interpolation weight... 0 for the first quat, 1 for the second |
| 21:02.31 | otherproton | um...huh? |
| 21:03.08 | scanline | If I understand it right, slerp accepts two quaternions and returns an interpolated quaternion at some postition between the two |
| 21:03.21 | scanline | so that position is specified as a number between 0 and 1 |
| 21:03.25 | otherproton | ohh ok i get it |
| 21:04.26 | scanline | so best I can figure, we'd slerp between the current position and the target position using a constant speed value * the frame time as the weight |
| 21:04.53 | scanline | that would cause it to start out fast and slow down as it approaches the target |
| 21:05.05 | scanline | ideally we'd want it to start out slow also.... |
| 21:05.40 | otherproton | could use a gaussian mapping to velocity |
| 21:06.17 | scanline | what would we index into that mapping with? there's not really a way to define the beginning and end of a motion |
| 21:06.34 | otherproton | the h value :) |
| 21:06.37 | scanline | I'm envisioning a camera that can continuously track a moving target |
| 21:06.56 | scanline | ha.. that would be... wrong |
| 21:07.39 | scanline | Is there a way of normalizing the quaternion so we can move toward the target value at a specified rate? |
| 21:07.58 | scanline | then we could use some sort of acceleration model like what I've tried to do with the AnimatedVector |
| 21:08.14 | *** join/#picogui file (~lan@mctn1-1627.nb.aliant.net) |
| 21:08.15 | otherproton | well if we just keep the origin quat the same until we reach the destination and interp with different values of h |
| 21:08.15 | file | arg |
| 21:08.20 | file | the phone lines are getting bad |
| 21:08.25 | file | ice, ice, ice |
| 21:08.42 | scanline | otherproton: yes, but how do we get this origin quat? |
| 21:09.00 | otherproton | scanline: when we decide to move the camera, we set the origin quat |
| 21:09.12 | scanline | so what if the target changes during that movement? |
| 21:09.19 | otherproton | well its like keyframes |
| 21:09.28 | otherproton | (if we do it that way) |
| 21:09.39 | scanline | if we just use the current position as a new origin it will ramp up the speed again, a bad thing.. |
| 21:09.47 | *** join/#picogui darth_balls (~darth_bal@resnet379.fortlewis.edu) |
| 21:10.03 | otherproton | perhaps we need to assign a momentum vector to the camera and slerp between 3 quats :) |
| 21:10.14 | scanline | hmm |
| 21:10.25 | file | heavy disk activity and yet I'm doing nothing |
| 21:10.25 | scanline | momentum is good |
| 21:10.33 | otherproton | scanline: have you coded up a quat::dot(quat) ? |
| 21:10.48 | scanline | nope.. I don't know how to do that yet |
| 21:11.13 | otherproton | :) |
| 21:11.28 | scanline | and right now I'm playing with my jello-cam :) |
| 21:11.45 | otherproton | a dot with quats is just like dot with vectors, just a 4th term |
| 21:11.51 | scanline | oh, ok |
| 21:13.04 | scanline | With AnimatedVector, the acceleration and fluid friction balance out so the camera ramps up to a maximum speed then slowly ramps down as it approaches the targe |
| 21:13.06 | scanline | err, target |
| 21:14.23 | otherproton | thats nifty |
| 21:14.33 | scanline | so maybe we could apply the same thing to quats |
| 21:14.46 | scanline | assuming I can make it stop oscillating :) |
| 21:14.53 | otherproton | *jiggle* |
| 21:15.08 | scanline | oh yeah... |
| 21:15.12 | scanline | we need cheat codes |
| 21:15.20 | scanline | we could have a 'springycam' cheat code :) |
| 21:15.59 | otherproton | scanline: have you defined an epsilon anywhere or should i put that in util? |
| 21:16.08 | scanline | nyet |
| 21:16.22 | scanline | I thought about that when sticking operator== in there, but didn't do it yet |
| 21:16.26 | otherproton | 0.0001 sound good? |
| 21:16.41 | scanline | what's the precision of a float, 1e-7 or something? |
| 21:16.45 | scanline | :) |
| 21:17.30 | otherproton | hah |
| 21:18.10 | file | my MMC was shipped today |
| 21:23.31 | otherproton | scanline: comitted |
| 21:24.02 | scanline | otherproton: committed |
| 21:24.05 | scanline | :) |
| 21:24.30 | scanline | got it to stop wiggling... there's a new camera_test that lets you adjust the AnimatedVector attributes |
| 21:24.40 | otherproton | wish i could see it, no glx on this xserver |
| 21:25.29 | scanline | otherproton: that's a different slerping method that what I had seen |
| 21:26.06 | otherproton | its the one ogre & friends use, originally from a gamasutra article iirc |
| 21:26.15 | scanline | neat |
| 21:32.17 | otherproton | "now that we've got a good quat class particle systems can spray within an angle (once i implement that) :) |
| 21:33.06 | scanline | cool. Just make a quat from a small random angle and add that to the emitter quat? |
| 21:33.32 | otherproton | pretty much |
| 21:35.17 | scanline | aalib bzflag! |
| 21:35.31 | otherproton | i mean for jetstream |
| 21:35.39 | otherproton | perhaps i'll start on the underbelly of ROAM |
| 21:35.50 | scanline | JetCOW! |
| 21:37.20 | otherproton | hmm |
| 21:37.28 | file | mmm |
| 21:37.34 | otherproton | we'll need some method of wrapping ROAM onto randomly shaped surfaces |
| 21:37.53 | scanline | sounds like a job for... bezier patches! |
| 21:38.05 | otherproton | perhaps we can do the base tesselation within a few set primitive shapes - cylindar, plane, box |
| 21:38.25 | scanline | hehe.. before we know it, we're using bezier patches to define all our ships and ROAM for bump mapping |
| 21:38.54 | otherproton | in front of all my coworkers |
| 21:38.55 | scanline | hehe |
| 21:39.39 | scanline | maybe I'll try to start on a portal engine after I finish playing with the camera and doing laundry |
| 21:40.12 | otherproton | the base ROAM algorithm only really works with a planar mapping...we'll need to do some thinking |
| 21:41.47 | scanline | with a combination of ROAM, bezier patches, and regular polygons, we should be able to have some pretty spiffily diverse environments |
| 21:41.55 | takkaria | ew. win32 apps |
| 21:42.00 | takkaria | wrong channel |
| 21:44.14 | otherproton | yeup |
| 21:44.27 | otherproton | and when we add multitexturing and particle systems, it'll look stunning :) |
| 21:44.59 | otherproton | the ship you're chasing plunges into the ocean after a chase through a canyon, water splashes, you go in after and see caustics on the sand below <evil grin> |
| 21:47.57 | scanline | =) |
| 21:47.58 | *** join/#picogui Cambo (mmmeeee@cm216036165101.westman.wave.ca) |
| 21:48.09 | scanline | hmm |
| 21:48.19 | scanline | I still think we should allow multiple backends for the ROAM dataset |
| 21:48.29 | otherproton | explain? |
| 21:48.35 | scanline | then we could have procedural water, rendered by ROAM :) |
| 21:48.52 | otherproton | oooooo |
| 21:48.55 | scanline | if I understand it right, it should be useful as a LOD algorithm for anything that's planar and can be represented by an array |
| 21:49.03 | otherproton | uhhuh |
| 21:49.05 | scanline | so water, procedural noise, splines... |
| 21:51.10 | file | dudes |
| 21:52.10 | *** join/#picogui anonyman (~peter@ip142166096051.nbtel.net) |
| 21:53.44 | file | THE FLUX CAPACITOR!!! |
| 21:54.01 | otherproton | scanline: thats "gimble" |
| 21:54.11 | scanline | oops |
| 21:57.31 | Cambo | computer programmers don't need to spell!... as long as it's always misspelled the same way |
| 21:57.53 | Cambo | that way your variables all work :) |
| 21:58.00 | scanline | yep :) |
| 21:58.03 | njs | Cambo: hacking on misspelled code _sucks_. |
| 22:00.17 | Cambo | stuff like.. comment wrong.... use variables called A1, a1, Al, AL etc... |
| 22:02.10 | njs | mixed capitalization conventions -- some variables LikeThis, some likeThis, some like_this, and throw in combined ones sometimes... like_This |
| 22:02.42 | otherproton | switch languages in your comments |
| 22:03.01 | njs | otherproton: switch language in your _code_ |
| 22:03.01 | scanline | otherproton: did you read the RTJpeg code? |
| 22:03.13 | otherproton | njs: i've been doing that far too much |
| 22:03.22 | otherproton | : vs {} ARGH! |
| 22:03.26 | scanline | the RTJpeg code is hideous.... comments and variable names in several languages and cases |
| 22:03.26 | otherproton | scanline: no, i'm scared |
| 22:03.55 | njs | otherproton: no, I mean, mix French, German, and Swahili variable names. |
| 22:04.05 | scanline | BAUCHWEH: |
| 22:04.05 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:04.27 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:04.27 | scanline | HIRNWEH: |
| 22:04.27 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:04.45 | otherproton | heh |
| 22:04.56 | scanline | hmm |
| 22:04.57 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:05.08 | scanline | yeah.. scary code |
| 22:05.24 | scanline | and it doesn't help that it's just one 4000 line file |
| 22:06.41 | otherproton | good thing we have no real reason to hack at it |
| 22:07.44 | scanline | the LZO code isn't as bad but still has almost no comments |
| 22:10.50 | *** join/#picogui hdcool (hdcool@D5E009DD.kabel.telenet.be) |
| 22:10.52 | hdcool | hi! |
| 22:10.56 | scanline | hi |
| 22:11.04 | hdcool | :) |
| 22:12.19 | file | hello hdcool |
| 22:12.29 | hdcool | Talez you available? |
| 22:12.41 | file | PicoBot: seen Talez |
| 22:12.42 | PicoBot | Talez was last seen on #picogui 7 days, 22 hours, 38 minutes and 20 seconds ago, saying: lol [Tue Nov 26 16:39:15 2002] |
| 22:12.50 | file | hdcool: take that as a no LOL |
| 22:13.00 | hdcool | mm :) |
| 22:14.18 | scanline | hehe |
| 22:15.12 | scanline | hopefully soon that will be able to be about.html instead |
| 22:15.19 | otherproton | >:) |
| 22:16.43 | otherproton | geeeeez |
| 22:16.48 | otherproton | we're at revision 77 in svn |
| 22:18.33 | scanline | maybe soon we'll have something in our scene worth using this camera to look at :) |
| 22:19.10 | scanline | I converted the existing Ship and FlatLand classes into SceneNodes just for the heck of it |
| 22:21.32 | otherproton | eventually we'll want to turn the scene graph into a tree |
| 22:21.58 | scanline | we'll want some generic way to handle visibility and transformations |
| 22:22.32 | scanline | http://jetstream.babylonia.flatirons.org/download/camera_test.png |
| 22:22.35 | otherproton | well we want the visitor to build a list of triangles/strips/etc then we can do visibility calcs & sorting on that |
| 22:23.20 | scanline | hmm |
| 22:23.52 | scanline | we'll have the world segmented into sectors, for the portal engine's benefit... |
| 22:24.03 | scanline | so we'll need a way to have objects transition between sectors |
| 22:24.08 | *** join/#picogui dakoda (cwright@AC9E6075.ipt.aol.com) |
| 22:24.10 | file | bbl |
| 22:24.10 | scanline | usually that's done via collision detection |
| 22:24.14 | otherproton | we'll probably have a two-stage vis calculation |
| 22:24.30 | scanline | well, the vis calculation will need to be recursive |
| 22:24.32 | otherproton | one to determine which sectors to draw, one to do frusum calcs on triangles |
| 22:24.39 | otherproton | frustum* |
| 22:25.04 | scanline | determining what sectors to draw is just a recursive frustum clipping on the portals |
| 22:25.21 | otherproton | we don't want to draw sectors off into infinity though |
| 22:26.02 | scanline | in an indoor level you'll end up at a dead end eventually, in an outdoor scene we can set a maximum distance to clip the portals to |
| 22:26.40 | otherproton | we can turn on some fog too so its not obvious where the world ends |
| 22:26.40 | scanline | portals will be useful outdoor too... you could create sectors that wrap back onto themselves to simulate a spherical planet :) |
| 22:26.57 | scanline | bleh, fog... |
| 22:27.05 | scanline | if there's fog, the sky would be gray |
| 22:27.12 | otherproton | very thin fog |
| 22:27.19 | scanline | better to gradually fade in things |
| 22:27.38 | otherproton | well outdoor its best if the horizon is bright or dark (depending on day or night) |
| 22:27.44 | scanline | or just have good enough LOD that for all practical purposes we can render off into infinity :) |
| 22:27.56 | otherproton | heh |
| 22:29.48 | otherproton | we do have a far clipping plane to worry about |
| 22:30.06 | otherproton | or if the skybox is happenin', a far clipping plane to ignore |
| 22:30.15 | scanline | hehe |
| 22:30.40 | scanline | the far clipping plane is just there because of limited Z-buffer resolution, eh? |
| 22:30.54 | otherproton | yep |
| 22:31.07 | scanline | is the Z-buffer usually floating point or fixed point? |
| 22:31.12 | otherproton | gf3 can set up to a 32bit z-buffer, but i think it defaults to 16 |
| 22:31.35 | otherproton | fixed point, but it may not be a linear mapping |
| 22:31.48 | scanline | mmkay |
| 22:31.54 | otherproton | most cards do a logarithmic scale on the z-buffer to allow higher resolution closer to the camera |
| 22:32.21 | scanline | good |
| 22:36.01 | otherproton | we're going to want to add geomorphing at some point |
| 22:36.15 | scanline | what's that? |
| 22:36.54 | otherproton | when the LOD of a height-point changes, there's a "pop" |
| 22:37.13 | scanline | oh yeah, they mentioned that in the paper on ROAM |
| 22:37.17 | otherproton | geomorphing interpolates the height up over a series of frames so its not visually apparent |
| 22:37.34 | dakoda | isnt there a cooler way to do terrians than that? |
| 22:37.54 | otherproton | dakoda: hmm? |
| 22:38.47 | dakoda | i dont know :) i thought there was some kind of terrian-morphing thing to avoid pops. might be geomorphing, and i just havnt heard that term |
| 22:39.14 | otherproton | dakoda: want to be? ;) |
| 22:39.28 | dakoda | it'd be cool, but i dunno if i have the time to devote to learning everything :) |
| 22:39.56 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@Metro0276.client.mscd.edu) |
| 22:40.08 | gonkulator | PicoBot: seen darth_balls |
| 22:40.08 | PicoBot | darth_balls was last seen on #picogui 3 hours, 58 minutes and 59 seconds ago, saying: hehe [Wed Dec 4 11:46:03 2002] |
| 22:40.36 | gonkulator | PicoBot: make music |
| 22:40.36 | PicoBot | ibot: twang! |
| 22:40.37 | | aofbot: badoing! |
| 22:40.38 | AoFBot | badoing! is foo |
| 22:41.11 | gonkulator | AoFBot: foo |
| 22:41.11 | AoFBot | I don't know about thatgonkulator. |
| 22:41.40 | njs | ~hello? |
| 22:41.41 | | Howdy Bub |
| 22:41.53 | otherproton | scanline: hmm, we seem to be having some difficulties attracting people ;) |
| 22:42.18 | dakoda | oh, was that a recruitment offer, and im just stupid? :) |
| 22:44.28 | gonkulator | this is hard ;) |
| 22:44.56 | gonkulator | otherproton: was this the "wednesday" that you had to mentally prepare yourself for? |
| 22:45.09 | otherproton | gonkulator: my wednesday schedule sucks |
| 22:45.53 | otherproton | plus today i had a performance in one of my classes to do |
| 22:45.54 | dakoda | scanline: depends on how dynamic... |
| 22:46.14 | gonkulator | otherproton: oh, ok |
| 22:46.18 | gonkulator | otherproton: where is captain_proton |
| 22:46.22 | scanline | dakoda: in-game level editor, blowing holes in walls, craters... |
| 22:46.29 | scanline | ooh |
| 22:46.44 | otherproton | gonkulator: captain_proton is on a different display, otherproton is at the office but bored |
| 22:46.50 | scanline | captain_proton: if a ship crashes into a polygon it could dynamically convert that to a ROAM surface then generate a crater :) |
| 22:46.53 | gonkulator | otherproton: oh, ok |
| 22:47.19 | otherproton | scanline: haha, you could do a fenderbender with other ships :) |
| 22:50.06 | scanline | PicoGUI's divtrees are almost exactly a 2D version of BSP trees =) |
| 22:50.30 | scanline | no wonder PicoGUI's visibility culling is so efficient ;) |
| 22:50.36 | dakoda | :) |
| 22:50.56 | *** join/#picogui anonyman[emujr] (~anonyman[@ip142166096051.nbtel.net) |
| 22:51.35 | anonyman[emujr] | live at leeds! |
| 22:51.39 | anonyman[emujr] | woop |
| 22:51.44 | scanline | he said he only read research papers on schedulers after he wrote his O(1) scheduler for linux... that it's more fun just to think about the problem without having preconceptions about how it should be solved |
| 22:52.17 | scanline | I went into picogui knowing very little about how existing GUIs solved problems, and ended up with a pretty different design |
| 22:52.31 | *** join/#picogui anonyman[emujr] (~anonyman[@ip142166096051.nbtel.net) |
| 22:52.41 | dakoda | it's a really good design too :) it's what X should have been |
| 22:52.52 | scanline | =) |
| 22:53.37 | *** join/#picogui anonyman (~peter@ip142166096051.nbtel.net) |
| 22:54.23 | scanline | hmm... this jetstream engine design will be really sweet if I can pull it off |
| 22:55.07 | scanline | practically unlimited world size, completely dynamic, supporting abstract surface types that can morph into each other... |
| 22:55.58 | scanline | hmm |
| 22:56.23 | dakoda | sounds like jak and daxter's engine (??) but with morphing |
| 22:56.33 | otherproton | time to leave the office |
| 22:58.09 | scanline | this format will probably be fairly wasteful... but fast |
| 22:58.17 | scanline | maybe I can add on-the-fly LZO compression in JetCOW |
| 23:00.09 | captain_proton | greetings, biped! |
| 23:00.40 | file | captain_proton: he can't :) |
| 23:00.44 | file | captain_proton: he doesn't know his password |
| 23:00.59 | file | his nicknames are mine |
| 23:01.02 | file | MUAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 23:02.11 | captain_proton | file: i should fill your shoes with pudding, that'll teach you a lesson about maturity |
| 23:02.21 | scanline | captain_proton: how abou per-sector octrees? :) |
| 23:02.46 | captain_proton | scanline: perhaps we should make it optional |
| 23:02.53 | scanline | what optional? |
| 23:02.57 | captain_proton | octrees are good for indoor but just slow down outdoor scenes |
| 23:03.05 | scanline | oh |
| 23:03.16 | file | captain_proton: nah |
| 23:03.24 | scanline | well, that's easy enough- just make it a 1-level octree |
| 23:03.34 | dakoda | worst case would probably be very bad |
| 23:03.39 | captain_proton | scanline: you fixed the mouse bug! |
| 23:03.43 | scanline | captain_proton: yup |
| 23:04.04 | scanline | captain_proton: it wouldn't store the terrain in the octree |
| 23:04.44 | scanline | the sector itself would have a portal to the terrain |
| 23:04.59 | scanline | well, 6 portals |
| 23:07.11 | scanline | with only using octrees within sectors, it should be fast enough to update them in real time |
| 23:09.41 | *** join/#picogui anonyman[emujr] (~anonyman[@ip142166096051.nbtel.net) |
| 23:10.05 | captain_proton | scanline: tonight we can have a captain engineering party and watch the new episode |
| 23:10.06 | captain_proton | :) |
| 23:10.12 | scanline | :) |
| 23:10.18 | anonyman[emujr] | okay... since my nick has been hijacked, disregard any comments from "anonyman" |
| 23:10.32 | scanline | anonyman[emujr]: thanks for the public service announcement |
| 23:10.39 | captain_proton | anonyman[emujr]: i'd just go to lilo and get file klined ;) |
| 23:10.42 | anonyman[emujr] | i will use 'realanonyman' istead |
| 23:11.00 | captain_proton | *that is if lilo isn't rehubbing or something |
| 23:11.09 | anonyman[emujr] | how do i do that? |
| 23:11.38 | scanline | captain_proton: or.. if we want even less cost for modifying the level, just subdivide the sectors into a uniform grid of cubes each containing a list of surfaces it intersects with :) |
| 23:13.29 | lurgyman | ibot |
| 23:14.55 | file | it's my nickname - I registered it lol |
| 23:15.09 | file | so ha! |
| 23:15.30 | anonyman[emujr] | are you talking to me? |
| 23:15.31 | file | the password is right under his nose too |
| 23:16.01 | file | anonyman[emujr]: I'm talking to everyone |
| 23:18.19 | captain_proton | time for me to go again |
| 23:19.27 | lurgyman | file: his mouth! |
| 23:19.31 | lurgyman | what a great password |
| 23:20.22 | file | nope |
| 23:23.01 | file | :) |
| 23:30.40 | *** join/#picogui realanony (~peter@ip142166096051.nbtel.net) |
| 23:31.19 | scanline | back |
| 23:31.33 | gonkulator | hi scanline :) |
| 23:31.42 | gonkulator | scanline: I am writting up the rules for the contest now :) |
| 23:31.51 | gonkulator | I almost have my version done! |
| 23:31.58 | scanline | neet |
| 23:32.02 | gonkulator | its a toughie, but it should be fun :) |
| 23:32.56 | file | don't forget to send me a copy now |
| 23:33.18 | gonkulator | file: send am email to remind me |
| 23:33.23 | gonkulator | lottabs2@yahoo.com |
| 23:33.26 | gonkulator | PicoBot: contest? |
| 23:33.26 | PicoBot | i don't know, gonkulator |
| 23:33.50 | file | I did! |
| 23:34.15 | gonkulator | PicoBot: contest is <reply> send an email to gonkulator (lottabs2@yahoo.com) to have him send you the requirements! All entries are due December 25, 2002 |
| 23:34.15 | PicoBot | ...but contest is http://www.zaurus.com/dev/challenge/ or Java contest at http://www.insignia.com/jpda2002/ or NEW: UPDATE ON CHALLENGE WEBSITE - SHIPPING DELAYED... |
| 23:34.21 | gonkulator | PicoBot: forget contest |
| 23:34.22 | PicoBot | gonkulator: I forgot contest |
| 23:34.25 | gonkulator | PicoBot: contest is <reply> send an email to gonkulator (lottabs2@yahoo.com) to have him send you the requirements! All entries are due December 25, 2002 |
| 23:34.26 | PicoBot | OK, gonkulator. |
| 23:40.35 | fragglet | ? |
| 23:41.33 | gonkulator | fragglet: programming contest |
| 23:41.48 | gonkulator | PicoBot: contest is also a really fun programming contest |
| 23:41.49 | PicoBot | okay, gonkulator. |
| 23:42.33 | fragglet | picogui contest? |
| 23:43.40 | gonkulator | fragglet: not picogui... just programming |
| 23:43.44 | fragglet | heh |
| 23:47.12 | gonkulator | bah... my program is segfaulting... |
| 23:50.44 | fragglet | heh |
| 23:51.05 | file | gonkulator: DEBUG! |
| 23:51.54 | gonkulator | file: I am |
| 23:52.07 | file | debugging the debugger |
| 23:52.08 | file | now there's a paradox |
| 23:52.46 | *** join/#picogui guised (guised@S64-216.DATANET.NYU.EDU) |
| 23:53.42 | guised | hey |
| 23:53.59 | guised | ibot picogui |
| 23:53.59 | | methinks picogui is an small and scalable embedded GUI. More info in the #picogui channel or at http://picogui.org. Read the FAQ or not pico gui or pico-gui or even cooler than sliced cheese or see "picogui faq" |
| 23:54.17 | gonkulator | well, time for me to go to class |
| 23:54.41 | file | I've got some kind of theory tomorrow because of TNB |
| 23:54.45 | file | can't play our instruments... |
| 23:54.59 | guised | can anyone tell me exactly what pico-gui is |
| 23:55.00 | guised | i mean |
| 23:55.07 | guised | like what programs can run on it |
| 23:55.09 | guised | and such |
| 23:55.22 | file | guised: anything in the PicoGUI CVS will run in PicoGUI |
| 23:55.29 | file | guised: and the first/only ported app - xchat |
| 23:55.52 | file | that's it... unless you write something |
| 23:56.03 | file | and no it won't run X apps |
| 23:56.04 | guised | so stuff for opie doesn't |
| 23:56.06 | guised | ah |
| 23:56.08 | file | no |
| 23:57.09 | file | anonyman[emujr]: me and Will are ordering advanced tickets for Nemesis - wanna come? |
| 23:57.52 | anonyman[emujr] | i'm going with mom |
| 23:57.55 | anonyman[emujr] | what time? |
| 23:58.19 | *** part/#picogui guised (guised@S64-216.DATANET.NYU.EDU) |
| 23:58.25 | file | Please hold. |
| 23:59.05 | file | first showing... |
