| 00:00.03 | Xentac | call it Internet Explorer |
| 00:00.14 | Xentac | the courts already said that it was too generic of a name |
| 00:00.21 | Xentac | or Windows! |
| 00:00.22 | lalo[out] | how unbelievable, AdHoc isn't taken |
| 00:00.23 | SoopaVillan | scanline, i thought you would just start anew |
| 00:00.53 | Xentac | lalo[out]: I think it might be confused with the wireless networking type... |
| 00:00.59 | scanline | hmm |
| 00:01.00 | Xentac | that's what I think every time I see it... |
| 00:01.02 | scanline | that's a good question |
| 00:01.17 | lalo[out] | Xentac: you're probably obsessed ;-) |
| 00:01.17 | scanline | would this be a new version of picogui, or a completely new project that just happens to borrow large pieces from picogui> |
| 00:01.22 | scanline | s/>/?/ |
| 00:01.30 | Xentac | lalo[out]: obsessed? with what? wireless? |
| 00:01.38 | lalo[out] | yap |
| 00:01.47 | Xentac | nah |
| 00:01.56 | SoopaVillan | scanline, the new project would make more sense |
| 00:02.01 | Xentac | especially when you use that caseing as well (capital A and H) |
| 00:02.15 | Xentac | why not start totally new then? and just borrow design ideas from picogui? |
| 00:02.20 | lalo[out] | scanline: I'd call it "an evolution of", or "another approach at" |
| 00:02.21 | SoopaVillan | because it's would be moving in a movement different than picogui |
| 00:02.31 | SoopaVillan | evolUI |
| 00:02.36 | scanline | not really a different direction |
| 00:02.40 | Xentac | call it Evolution! |
| 00:02.42 | Xentac | dammit! |
| 00:02.45 | Xentac | all my ideas are taken! |
| 00:02.52 | lalo[out] | hmm, evolUI is cool |
| 00:03.03 | scanline | hard to pronounce.. |
| 00:03.08 | lalo[out] | it's how "evolve" is spelled in portuguese... probably italian and spanish too |
| 00:03.15 | Xentac | scanline: that's why we'd need an ogg file! |
| 00:03.31 | lalo[out] | and we could call it "evilUI" when nobody is looking |
| 00:03.35 | scanline | :) |
| 00:03.51 | scanline | Kiwix |
| 00:04.15 | *** join/#picogui SoopaMech (~soopaman@h24-66-55-126.wp.shawcable.net) |
| 00:04.16 | lalo[out] | nothing that ends in X, for the same reasons as the decimal prefixes |
| 00:04.31 | scanline | this is like the openzarus naming thingy! |
| 00:04.32 | lalo[out] | and nothing that gratuitously ends in Y or Z or W either |
| 00:04.33 | SoopaMech | Xgui! |
| 00:04.35 | Xentac | I figured ending in X would be fine... as long as it was a small x |
| 00:04.36 | SoopaMech | yayayya |
| 00:04.48 | kergoth | hehe |
| 00:04.52 | SoopaMech | OpenZaurEM |
| 00:04.53 | scanline | GUIXYZ |
| 00:05.00 | kergoth | tmm1 wants to call it OZ anyway, so he calls it OpenZembedded, with a silent Z |
| 00:05.00 | lalo[out] | FemtoGuiX |
| 00:05.01 | Xentac | scanline: you forgot the W... |
| 00:05.10 | scanline | kergoth: haha |
| 00:05.16 | scanline | WGUIXYZ :P |
| 00:05.21 | Xentac | there we go |
| 00:05.32 | Xentac | I still like iuGui... it seems the... coolest... |
| 00:05.41 | scanline | it would be good if the name emphasized scalability and modularity, but I don't know how to do that |
| 00:05.53 | Xentac | scanline: alternate big and small letters! |
| 00:05.55 | SoopaMech | abcdefGUI |
| 00:06.02 | lalo[out] | no, make it look cross-platform and l33+ at once: WXGUYZ |
| 00:06.21 | Xentac | scanline: oh, and don't forget the []'s for optional parts of the name! |
| 00:06.40 | Xentac | SoMeThInG[Or]AnOtHeR[GUI]! |
| 00:06.47 | Xentac | scalability and modularity... right there! |
| 00:06.52 | SoopaMech | heheh |
| 00:06.58 | SoopaMech | i thought you were joking scan |
| 00:07.17 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@propellant.client.mscd.edu) |
| 00:07.25 | Xentac | gonkulator: vote iuGui |
| 00:07.42 | gonkulator | Xentac: what are my options? |
| 00:07.49 | Xentac | just vote iuGui |
| 00:07.55 | Xentac | you can hear about your options later |
| 00:07.55 | SoopaMech | gonkUI |
| 00:08.00 | SoopaMech | bonerUI |
| 00:08.09 | Xentac | gonkulator: I figured you'd do that |
| 00:08.13 | SoopaMech | appleGUIce |
| 00:08.40 | Xentac | call it PicoGUI CE! |
| 00:08.56 | Xentac | the first version of iuGui could be called XP! |
| 00:08.56 | SoopaMech | apple juice |
| 00:08.58 | Xentac | hehehe |
| 00:09.05 | SoopaMech | appleGUIce |
| 00:09.20 | *** join/#picogui agonk{nov} (~brandon@h-69-3-54-50.DNVTCO56.covad.net) |
| 00:09.46 | SoopaMech | what about calling it ILikeBoobiesUI |
| 00:09.47 | SoopaMech | ?? |
| 00:10.36 | file[laptop] | what are we discussing? |
| 00:11.01 | SoopaMech | heheh |
| 00:11.04 | SoopaMech | -38C |
| 00:11.09 | SoopaMech | this is rediculous |
| 00:11.09 | file[laptop] | alternate names? |
| 00:11.26 | file[laptop] | hrmph... slow download |
| 00:12.29 | Xentac | SoopaVillan: nah... it'd have to be YayForBoobiesUI |
| 00:13.09 | fraggle | bUIbi |
| 00:16.42 | SoopaVillan | hshsh |
| 00:21.44 | lalo[out] | well, I'm going home. |
| 00:21.51 | lalo[out] | have to eat and sleep, in that order |
| 00:22.27 | scanline | bye lalo[out], thanks for the discussion |
| 00:22.38 | scanline | I'm posting a quick mail to pgui-devel to try and get some ideas flowing |
| 00:25.10 | lalo[out] | great :-) |
| 00:25.10 | lalo[out] | lotsa fun |
| 00:26.41 | SoopaVillan | heheh |
| 00:27.03 | SoopaVillan | i have a bunch of ideas for the render portion of the newUI |
| 00:27.33 | SoopaVillan | even though they all are essentially perverted ideas of SVG |
| 00:27.36 | SoopaVillan | :S |
| 00:37.07 | scanline | Well, the countdown has started |
| 00:37.14 | gonkulator | what countdown? |
| 00:37.17 | SoopaVillan | for? |
| 00:37.19 | scanline | PicoGUI's days are numbered |
| 00:37.25 | gonkulator | oh |
| 00:37.35 | Xentac | scanline: new project, eh? |
| 00:37.36 | gonkulator | don't they start like 3 years ago, and go up? |
| 00:37.44 | SoopaVillan | so does that mean so it's it;s GPL license? |
| 00:37.46 | SoopaVillan | >=) |
| 00:37.51 | scanline | gonkulator: yeah, something like that |
| 00:38.13 | scanline | SoopaVillan: the new project will be GPL also (possibly LGPL) and incorporate lots of ideas and code from picogui |
| 00:38.26 | SoopaVillan | LGPL is what again |
| 00:38.28 | SoopaVillan | sorry gonk |
| 00:38.48 | scanline | In GPL, your program cant' be linked with non-GPL'ed software |
| 00:38.51 | SoopaVillan | limited gpl? |
| 00:38.52 | scanline | LGPL allows anything to link to it |
| 00:38.59 | scanline | L == lesser |
| 00:39.03 | SoopaVillan | ahh |
| 00:39.16 | SoopaVillan | i like lgpl + credit |
| 00:39.19 | scanline | The only reason to LGPL is for the case where it's compiled as a library |
| 00:39.22 | scanline | ? |
| 00:39.26 | scanline | +credit? |
| 00:39.41 | gonkulator | SoopaVillan: you should have saved our conversation |
| 00:40.08 | SoopaVillan | where the client has to feature somewhere in their first screans that it is based on/derived from pico/iuGUI |
| 00:40.17 | SoopaVillan | gonkulator, i think i did, trying to find it again |
| 00:40.55 | scanline | SoopaVillan: IMHO, those are dumb |
| 00:40.56 | Xentac | SoopaVillan: that's like the initial BSD license... there's been major controversy over that... |
| 00:41.13 | Xentac | and they decided to change it in favour of no attribution |
| 00:41.36 | scanline | I don't want to use software that has a splash screen that says "This program was made with glibc, gtk, libpng, libfoo, libblah...." for about 50 lines |
| 00:41.42 | file[laptop] | I got my soundcard working! YAHOO! |
| 00:41.46 | SoopaVillan | scanline, well wouldn't it be respectful to the selfless work that has been put into it? |
| 00:41.51 | scanline | no |
| 00:42.01 | scanline | it would be arrogant |
| 00:42.12 | scanline | and it would get in the way of the program's purpose |
| 00:42.42 | SoopaVillan | oh |
| 00:42.45 | SoopaVillan | true |
| 00:42.50 | SoopaVillan | never thought about it that way |
| 00:43.04 | Xentac | SoopaVillan: now... if the person who made the program wanted to attribute iuGui... then I don't see any problem with that |
| 00:43.08 | Xentac | but forcing them to sucks |
| 00:43.39 | scanline | if a program's good enough, people will want to talk about how cool it is |
| 00:43.46 | SoopaVillan | true |
| 00:43.59 | scanline | that's why you see those little "made with python" or "powered by linux" buttons.. nobody forces you to use those |
| 00:44.12 | SoopaVillan | i just think there is limited progress in gpl |
| 00:44.20 | scanline | limited progress? |
| 00:44.44 | SoopaVillan | in the scheme of hardware and stuff |
| 00:45.05 | scanline | GPL was only designed for software, there are other licenses for documentation, hardware, and art |
| 00:45.12 | SoopaVillan | oh |
| 00:45.18 | SoopaVillan | then i guess i have spoken too soon |
| 00:45.31 | scanline | that's like saying that toaster ovens have made limited progress in cooking ramen noodles |
| 00:45.42 | scanline | heh |
| 00:45.46 | SoopaVillan | toaster ovens are open source? |
| 00:45.49 | SoopaVillan | :) |
| 00:45.52 | SoopaVillan | sweet |
| 00:46.03 | Xentac | SoopaVillan: well... the circuitry it right there... you just have to pop it open |
| 00:46.16 | Xentac | hey... does that mean that toaster oven circuitry is in the public domain? |
| 00:46.17 | scanline | not much to a toaster oven... |
| 00:46.18 | scanline | 1. cord |
| 00:46.20 | SoopaVillan | i wish that dish washers were open source |
| 00:46.21 | scanline | 2. heating coil |
| 00:46.23 | scanline | 3. button |
| 00:46.38 | scanline | 4. thermostat |
| 00:46.39 | *** join/#picogui captain_proton (~jupiter@aden2-23-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:46.40 | SoopaVillan | scanline, don't forget the heat/breaker |
| 00:46.57 | scanline | SoopaVillan: I think that's covered in numbers 3. and 4. |
| 00:46.59 | scanline | err, 2. and 4. |
| 00:47.14 | gonkulator | hi captain_proton |
| 00:47.16 | SoopaVillan | implicitly |
| 00:47.25 | scanline | no, explicitly |
| 00:47.35 | scanline | a thermostat's job is to cut the power if it gets above a set temperature |
| 00:47.53 | scanline | so if it overheats, the thermostat should go off |
| 00:48.00 | SoopaVillan | oh ok |
| 00:48.01 | SoopaVillan | damn |
| 00:48.05 | SoopaVillan | you are hella clever |
| 00:48.09 | scanline | if it includes a redundant overheat cutoff, that's still part of the same specification |
| 00:48.17 | SoopaVillan | wanna come over and help me figure out dish washers? |
| 00:48.33 | SoopaVillan | i've always had beef with them... |
| 00:48.45 | Xentac | SoopaVillan: I guess that's why he's the lead PicoGUI developer and you aren't ;o) |
| 00:48.50 | SoopaVillan | hahah |
| 00:48.52 | file[laptop] | I have a question |
| 00:48.59 | SoopaVillan | Xentac, true |
| 00:49.03 | file[laptop] | how can I put a new module in my Linux install without restarting? |
| 00:49.10 | scanline | modprobe |
| 00:49.10 | SoopaVillan | hahah |
| 00:49.13 | SoopaVillan | that bot rules |
| 00:49.17 | file[laptop] | scanline: I tried |
| 00:49.27 | SoopaVillan | insmod |
| 00:49.40 | Xentac | file[laptop]: what happens when you modprobe? |
| 00:49.58 | file[laptop] | Xentac: it uses the old one |
| 00:51.21 | gonkulator | scanline: I just read your mail |
| 00:51.27 | gonkulator | scanline: we can call it OSGUI |
| 00:51.33 | file[laptop] | I'm pretty sure I'm compiling against the 2.4.19-x1 source... so why does this say it's using 2.4.18?!?!?!? |
| 00:51.34 | gonkulator | and it can be the OSGUI files |
| 00:51.35 | scanline | ick |
| 00:52.16 | Xentac | file[laptop]: because you're crazy and don't understand linux? |
| 00:52.23 | Xentac | file[laptop]: type 'uname -a' |
| 00:53.57 | SoopaVillan | boulderUI |
| 00:55.34 | file[laptop] | Linux CHIMERA 2.4.19-x1 #2 Mon Sep 23 22:48:11 EDT 2002 i586 unknown |
| 00:55.56 | file[laptop] | it says my module was compiled for kernel version 2.4.18 |
| 00:56.06 | Xentac | file[laptop]: where'd you get the module from? |
| 00:56.14 | file[laptop] | Xentac: I compiled it. |
| 00:56.29 | Xentac | compiled it using what as your kernel tree? |
| 00:56.43 | file[laptop] | 2.4.19 that I downloaded from my distro site |
| 00:56.51 | file[laptop] | and it's being told to use the include directory for it |
| 00:57.18 | Xentac | change your password to 'iamafuzzybunny' |
| 00:57.18 | file[laptop] | Xentac: okay, please wait. |
| 00:57.22 | Xentac | or something ;o) |
| 00:57.33 | file[laptop] | I must turn on sshd |
| 00:58.22 | Xentac | user account file? |
| 00:58.31 | file[laptop] | I'm going to make you one |
| 00:58.39 | file[laptop] | let's see if I can get in... |
| 00:58.43 | file[laptop] | gotta logon to the net too |
| 00:59.26 | gonkulator | scanline: shut is such a cool bot |
| 00:59.48 | Xentac | yay, navi's back up |
| 00:59.53 | gonkulator | scanline: you could call it shuGUI |
| 01:00.04 | scanline | navi was down? |
| 01:00.05 | file[laptop] | doesn't appear to be working |
| 01:00.12 | Xentac | scanline: yeah... while you were at home ;o) |
| 01:00.17 | scanline | oh |
| 01:00.27 | file[laptop] | oh there it is |
| 01:00.47 | file[laptop] | please wait |
| 01:01.49 | SoopaVillan | scanline, do you have a high speed conmnection or somehting? |
| 01:01.54 | gonkulator | SoopaVillan: no |
| 01:02.01 | gonkulator | SoopaVillan: he is on a glorified 56k |
| 01:02.17 | SoopaVillan | ack |
| 01:02.18 | Xentac | hehehe, and you are serving my promotion video... I think... |
| 01:04.13 | Xentac | ewww! |
| 01:04.29 | Xentac | Xandros has a My Documents directory, standard in your home directory! |
| 01:04.48 | file[laptop] | check again :p |
| 01:05.13 | Xentac | you erased it |
| 01:05.17 | Xentac | but what about all my documents?!? |
| 01:05.20 | SoopaVillan | how is xandros? |
| 01:10.52 | gonkulator | hmm... |
| 01:13.24 | Xentac | gonkulator: ah... you're one of those annoying people who keep asking questions and making the class go on longer! |
| 01:13.35 | Xentac | it's people like you that make me wake up! |
| 01:13.54 | gonkulator | Xentac: no, I comment on what the professor says, and it starts him on tangents |
| 01:14.14 | gonkulator | Xentac: and its only in this class |
| 01:14.16 | Xentac | hmmm... |
| 01:14.18 | Xentac | that's not as bad... |
| 01:14.23 | Xentac | but still... |
| 01:14.23 | gonkulator | I have had this professor 4 times already |
| 01:14.26 | Xentac | you're still wasting time! |
| 01:14.26 | Xentac | ;o) |
| 01:14.43 | gonkulator | everyone here is stoned out anyway... |
| 01:20.52 | gonkulator | Xentac: relax |
| 01:26.47 | file[laptop] | gonkulator: I require your assistance... |
| 01:27.13 | gonkulator | file[laptop]: what do you need? |
| 01:27.29 | Xentac | gonkulator: I wish I could... the thing is that there's just too much |
| 01:27.37 | file[laptop] | help diagnosing problems |
| 01:27.58 | gonkulator | whats your problem file[laptop] |
| 01:28.12 | file[laptop] | can't get a kernel module to compile |
| 01:28.32 | gonkulator | hmm.. its either an ID10T error, or a PEBKAC situation |
| 01:28.36 | SoopaVillan | lol |
| 01:28.56 | SoopaVillan | A-SS-HO-LE!! |
| 01:29.08 | gonkulator | are you going through the kernel make menuconfig program? |
| 01:29.24 | gonkulator | or how are you trying to compile it? |
| 01:29.32 | Xentac | gonkulator: nah... this is a small module he downloaded from somewhere else ;o) |
| 01:29.56 | gonkulator | and is it a pre-compiled kernel module, or a source module? |
| 01:30.41 | Xentac | gonkulator: source |
| 01:30.57 | gonkulator | so then why does file[laptop] need my help? |
| 01:31.10 | file[laptop] | gonkulator: because I thought Xentac was gone |
| 01:31.40 | Xentac | because he doesn't have faith in my abilities... |
| 01:31.51 | file[laptop] | Xentac: you were idle for a bit... |
| 01:32.04 | *** join/#picogui Cambo (mmmeeee@cm216036165101.westman.wave.ca) |
| 01:51.20 | file[laptop] | gonkulator: Want to try to fix this? |
| 01:52.35 | gonkulator | file[laptop]: not really |
| 01:52.43 | gonkulator | especially because class is over now |
| 02:00.51 | SoopaVillan | has anyone ever compiled wlan support into their kernel? |
| 02:00.59 | Xentac | SoopaVillan: into their kernel? |
| 02:01.05 | Xentac | I've compiled it as modules... |
| 02:01.08 | Xentac | a bunch of times... |
| 02:01.15 | SoopaVillan | Xentac, for what devices? |
| 02:01.34 | Xentac | my d-link 802.11b card? and my smc 802.11b card...? |
| 02:02.16 | SoopaVillan | both pcmcia |
| 02:02.21 | SoopaVillan | or pci |
| 02:02.22 | Xentac | correct |
| 02:02.32 | Xentac | well... the smc was through a pci->pcmcia bridge |
| 02:03.47 | Xentac | curse you freenode! |
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| 02:04.48 | Xentac | welcome back everybody |
| 02:04.48 | SoopaVillan | ok, i want to get my Netgear MR401 pcmcia, and my netgear MR101 USB wlan devices going |
| 02:04.48 | SoopaVillan | freenode is rediculous |
| 02:05.31 | Xentac | and your problem is...? |
| 02:11.20 | SoopaVillan | i don't know how to include it into my kernel |
| 02:11.29 | SoopaVillan | so i can use hotplugging |
| 02:12.27 | Xentac | compile your kernel... then compile and install wlan-ng? |
| 02:13.01 | Xentac | wait... I missed a step |
| 02:13.07 | Xentac | a) compile and install your kernel |
| 02:13.12 | Xentac | b) compile and install pcmcia-cs |
| 02:13.19 | Xentac | c) compile and install wlan-ng |
| 02:13.47 | SoopaVillan | heh, that's it? |
| 02:13.55 | Xentac | yeah, more or less |
| 02:14.03 | Xentac | some tweaking in /etc/pcmcia that needs doing |
| 02:14.06 | Xentac | but that's about it |
| 02:15.15 | SoopaVillan | hmm... |
| 02:15.28 | Xentac | hmm? |
| 02:15.42 | SoopaVillan | ok, i'm gonna try to make a package then |
| 02:16.07 | Xentac | make a package... for what? |
| 02:16.24 | SoopaVillan | for my linux dist. |
| 02:16.32 | Xentac | ah... what's your linux dist? |
| 02:16.42 | SoopaVillan | dunno |
| 02:16.47 | Xentac | ummm... ok... |
| 02:16.48 | SoopaVillan | haven't given it a name yet |
| 02:17.01 | SoopaVillan | out of all the things i;ve done with it |
| 02:17.07 | SoopaVillan | i totally forgot to give it a name |
| 02:17.18 | Xentac | what file is the linux kernel name (2.4.19-fileisstupid, for example) in? |
| 02:17.35 | SoopaVillan | 2.4.19 |
| 02:17.40 | SoopaVillan | ok |
| 02:17.44 | SoopaVillan | i'll talk to you later |
| 02:17.53 | Xentac | SoopaVillan: when you compile a kernel... where can I add the custom name at the end? |
| 02:18.10 | file[laptop] | eh? |
| 02:18.13 | SoopaVillan | ?? |
| 02:18.15 | file[laptop] | Xentac: suppering? gah |
| 02:18.28 | file[laptop] | oh well... he'll be back |
| 02:19.18 | file[laptop] | time to break out a caffeine mint |
| 02:19.19 | file[laptop] | oh no |
| 02:19.21 | file[laptop] | I can't find it |
| 02:48.23 | *** join/#picogui lurgyman (~lurgyman@aden2-123-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 02:49.48 | file[laptop] | hi lurgyman |
| 02:51.11 | lurgyman | file[laptop]: goof morning |
| 02:51.45 | file[laptop] | night here |
| 02:52.45 | lurgyman | it's always morning on a school day |
| 02:53.09 | file[laptop] | I have exams so I only go till 10:15AM |
| 03:01.33 | file[laptop] | Xentac? |
| 03:01.44 | file[laptop] | idle 43 minutes... arg matey |
| 03:02.21 | scanline | ~lart CORBA |
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| 03:17.01 | file[laptop] | great |
| 03:17.10 | file[laptop] | your compile is done, thanks for choosing File's Workstation! |
| 03:18.02 | Xentac | yeah... I'm probably gonna have to redo it later... |
| 03:18.12 | file[laptop] | why? |
| 03:18.49 | Xentac | cause I have to change the name.. |
| 03:19.41 | file[laptop] | I'm going to sleep in 40 minutes - but the machine will continue to operate... have fun |
| 03:19.47 | Xentac | ah ha! |
| 03:19.48 | Xentac | I found it |
| 03:19.55 | file[laptop] | found what |
| 03:20.05 | Xentac | found the file I needed to change.. |
| 03:20.12 | file[laptop] | oh ic |
| 03:24.05 | file[laptop] | Xentac: I feel bad news, am I right? |
| 03:31.08 | file[laptop] | Xentac: status? |
| 03:34.19 | file[laptop] | Xentac: So close! |
| 03:34.37 | *** join/#picogui njs (njs@12-232-144-227.client.attbi.com) |
| 03:34.46 | file[laptop] | was compiled for 2.4.19, needs to be 2.4.19-x1 |
| 03:38.31 | Xentac | file[laptop]: you realize that I have other things I'd rather be doing... but I keep coming back :P |
| 03:38.44 | file[laptop] | Xentac: isn't that thoughtful :) |
| 03:39.53 | Xentac | it still has unresolved symbols... things like 'printk' and 'cpu_raise_softirq'... what the hell... |
| 03:40.08 | Xentac | 'kfree' |
| 03:40.14 | Xentac | these are all important symbols... |
| 03:40.23 | file[laptop] | very strange |
| 03:40.29 | kergoth | sounds like it was built against sources without modversions enabled, but your kenrel has modversions enabled. |
| 03:40.55 | file[laptop] | kergoth: nifty... not |
| 03:41.16 | Xentac | kergoth: cool... reconfiguring (all I got was a suspicious config file and some un-touched xandros kernel source tree) |
| 03:41.38 | file[laptop] | Xentac: you can fix it? |
| 03:41.55 | Xentac | yes |
| 03:41.59 | Xentac | or at least... try to |
| 03:42.02 | file[laptop] | :) |
| 03:42.05 | file[laptop] | great |
| 03:43.46 | Xentac | file[laptop]: when do you sleep? |
| 03:43.54 | file[laptop] | Xentac: midnight |
| 03:43.57 | file[laptop] | in 18 minutes |
| 03:44.05 | Xentac | right... ypu're 4 hours ahead... |
| 03:44.15 | file[laptop] | pour quoi? |
| 03:44.47 | Xentac | kergoth: it's difficult when the stuff you're trying to compile to doesn't match with the stuff you actually have the system running with ;o) |
| 03:45.26 | *** join/#picogui dakoda (cwright@AC9935A1.ipt.aol.com) |
| 03:45.38 | Xentac | file[laptop]: why? because I want to get this done before you go to bed? |
| 03:45.46 | file[laptop] | Xentac: oh ic |
| 03:45.50 | file[laptop] | good luck |
| 03:46.10 | file[laptop] | and I'm laying in my bed right now... you'd best say "before you go to sleep" |
| 03:46.26 | njs | I notice that the link to IRC logs on www.picogui.org is broken. |
| 03:46.38 | njs | ("The operation timed out when attempting to contact ipaq.secret.org.uk") |
| 03:46.47 | Xentac | hehehe |
| 03:46.50 | scanline | hmm.. that was a link to ibot's logs |
| 03:46.57 | scanline | maybe tim moved them |
| 03:46.58 | Xentac | secret.org.uk |
| 03:46.58 | dakoda | njs: havnt those been broken for a while? |
| 03:47.38 | Xentac | kergoth: without actually doing a full build... I can do a make dep to get the symbols all lined up, right? |
| 03:48.00 | kergoth | yep |
| 03:48.03 | kergoth | er |
| 03:48.07 | kergoth | define 'full build' |
| 03:48.09 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:48.23 | Xentac | a full build of the kernel (make bzImage modules) |
| 03:48.33 | njs | dakoda: no idea, I haven't wanted them before :-) |
| 03:48.41 | kergoth | Xentac: um, no |
| 03:48.42 | Xentac | cause file was complaining about not being able to make a new kernel for xandros or something |
| 03:48.48 | kergoth | Xentac: make dep checks module dependencies on modules in /lib/modules |
| 03:48.58 | kergoth | bleh, i dotn understand the question |
| 03:48.58 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:49.02 | Xentac | here's the situation |
| 03:49.13 | Xentac | xandros gives you a kernel binary and modules |
| 03:49.27 | Xentac | file wants to compile this other module from a tarball he downloaded |
| 03:49.53 | Xentac | he installed the xandros-kernel-source-package-thingy |
| 03:50.07 | Xentac | so there's a /usr/src/xandros-source-2.4.19 directory |
| 03:50.13 | Xentac | but it wasn't configured or anything |
| 03:50.25 | kergoth | so you copy the .config for the running kernel into there |
| 03:50.28 | kergoth | its probably in /boot somewhere |
| 03:50.28 | Xentac | so I found, what seemed to be, a configure file in /boot/config-something |
| 03:50.31 | Xentac | I did |
| 03:50.34 | Xentac | then I did a make dep |
| 03:50.34 | kergoth | then run make oldconfig dep |
| 03:50.39 | kergoth | .. |
| 03:50.41 | kergoth | oldconfig is required |
| 03:50.44 | Xentac | sorry... |
| 03:50.48 | Xentac | I did a make menuconfig |
| 03:50.51 | Xentac | saved, then make dep |
| 03:50.56 | kergoth | ah, that works |
| 03:51.03 | Xentac | then compiled the module |
| 03:51.04 | Xentac | and no-go |
| 03:51.31 | kergoth | 'compiled the module' |
| 03:51.33 | kergoth | .. |
| 03:51.34 | kergoth | elaborate |
| 03:51.38 | kergoth | details, man ;) |
| 03:51.50 | Xentac | remind me never to offer to help someone when they have a 166... |
| 03:51.51 | Xentac | sure |
| 03:52.13 | Xentac | I went 'make' in the directory created by the tarball, after configuring the makefile to point at /usr/src/xandros-.../include |
| 03:52.23 | Xentac | it created a warplink.o file for me |
| 03:52.48 | Xentac | which I copied into /lib/modules/2.4.19-x1/net and then did a depmod -a |
| 03:53.28 | Xentac | this is where I get unresolved symbols |
| 03:53.36 | Xentac | I found if I depmod -ae I get the symbols that are unresolved |
| 03:54.48 | Xentac | need any more information? |
| 03:55.03 | Xentac | but this bloody thing takes so long to compile... |
| 03:56.19 | file[laptop] | goodnight |
| 03:56.28 | Xentac | file[laptop]: ta da |
| 03:56.52 | file[laptop] | what? |
| 03:56.55 | Xentac | silly machine... takes so bloody long to do anything... |
| 03:56.58 | Xentac | hey, what the hell... |
| 03:57.09 | Xentac | I can insmod it... it just tells me it'll taint the kernel... but I can't depmod -a |
| 03:57.11 | Xentac | ... |
| 03:57.13 | Xentac | strange... |
| 03:57.39 | file[laptop] | does it detect a warplink card? |
| 03:57.47 | Xentac | yeah... |
| 03:57.56 | Xentac | but there's still the problem of not being able to depmod -a... |
| 03:58.09 | file[laptop] | so - will it work as it is? |
| 03:58.20 | Xentac | if you want to kludge it like that... yes |
| 03:58.30 | file[laptop] | kludge it? |
| 03:58.59 | Xentac | you will have to have the file stored somewhere and use a script to insmod /path/to/file/warplink.o |
| 03:59.06 | Xentac | instead of being able to modprobe it |
| 03:59.11 | file[laptop] | uh huh |
| 03:59.16 | Xentac | strange... |
| 03:59.18 | file[laptop] | ic |
| 03:59.28 | Xentac | when I depmod it gives me unresolved symbols... |
| 03:59.31 | Xentac | but I can still modprobe it |
| 03:59.33 | file[laptop] | and then do some ifconfig stuff to set it's IP and stuff? |
| 03:59.36 | Xentac | and it loads... |
| 04:00.20 | Xentac | file[laptop]: it'll work |
| 04:00.21 | Xentac | go to bed |
| 04:00.27 | kergoth | Xentac: what _module_ has the unresolved symbols in depmod? |
| 04:00.33 | Xentac | kergoth: warplink.o |
| 04:00.33 | kergoth | Xentac: depmod scans all the modules in the systme |
| 04:00.40 | kergoth | no idea then |
| 04:00.50 | file[laptop] | Goodnight. |
| 04:00.52 | Xentac | now you're making me doubt myself... |
| 04:01.01 | file[laptop] | doubt what? |
| 04:01.06 | Xentac | I'm nearly positive it's the exact file I just copied in there ;o) |
| 04:01.30 | file[laptop] | just send me a private message or memo with details |
| 04:01.41 | Xentac | file[laptop]: do what shut says |
| 04:02.41 | Xentac | kergoth: I did the depmod... it gave me the path of the file with unresolved symbols... I insmod the file (by copying and pasting the path... to make sure I didn't type it wrong) and it tells me it'll taint the kernel and loads... |
| 04:23.46 | *** topic/#picogui by scanline -> http://picogui.org || If nobody here answers your question, try the pgui-devel mailing list || PicoGUI v0.44 "Polygons of the Apocalypse" released |
| 04:29.03 | *** join/#picogui SoopaVillan (~soopaman@h24-66-55-126.wp.shawcable.net) |
| 04:30.03 | scanline | :) |
| 04:30.50 | scanline | haha |
| 04:33.22 | lurgyman | and the additive version is equally effective! |
| 04:33.34 | scanline | yay |
| 04:35.32 | Xentac | scanline: how do I rsync from navi? |
| 04:35.50 | scanline | rsync rsync://navi.picogui.org |
| 04:36.06 | Xentac | but won't that rsync all the bajillions of gig to my machine? |
| 04:36.13 | Xentac | what if I just want a certain directory? |
| 04:36.30 | scanline | that will give you a listing |
| 04:36.51 | Xentac | oh, alrighty |
| 04:37.12 | Xentac | neato |
| 04:37.27 | Xentac | and how do I make it download a directory then? |
| 04:38.37 | scanline | I think it works like 'cp', but check the manpage |
| 04:38.41 | scanline | haven't used it in a while |
| 04:38.53 | Xentac | yeah... looks like it |
| 04:38.53 | Xentac | cool |
| 04:39.55 | dakoda | does it make use of any of the compressed vnc protocl variants yet? |
| 04:40.12 | scanline | it supports a ton of them, but some are buggy |
| 04:40.23 | scanline | It uses a slightly hacked up version of libvncserver |
| 04:40.23 | dakoda | groovy |
| 04:40.32 | scanline | hextile seems to work, tight sometimes crashes the client |
| 04:40.55 | scanline | I haven't looked into it yet- blame the libvncserver maintainer ;) |
| 04:41.07 | dakoda | ahh, i havnt found any problems yet :) |
| 04:41.17 | scanline | spiffy |
| 04:41.27 | dakoda | (but i wish i wasnt on dialup so i could get live responses :) |
| 04:41.37 | scanline | yeah, it really sucks over dialup |
| 04:43.36 | Xentac | so... is this really the end for picogui...? |
| 04:43.42 | scanline | no |
| 04:43.49 | njs | it really sucks over my cable modem too, actually, which it probably shouldn't. |
| 04:44.11 | scanline | probably... there seemed to be bugs in the VNC server where it would send too much data |
| 04:44.15 | Xentac | awwww, go and ruin my fun... I was going to do the batman voice and everything |
| 04:44.26 | Xentac | "Tune in next week to find out!" |
| 04:44.27 | *** join/#picogui laodamas (christop@bakr23-130.resnet.colorado.edu) |
| 04:44.31 | njs | (like, multi-second latency on pointer redraws) |
| 04:44.34 | scanline | Xentac: there will be a really big rewrite, and possibly a name change, but the project will go on |
| 04:44.40 | scanline | njs: ick |
| 04:44.42 | scanline | hi laodamas |
| 04:44.50 | laodamas | hello scanline |
| 04:44.52 | Xentac | scanline: ah... so it's not a bottom-up rebuild... |
| 04:45.04 | Xentac | picogui is just going to transmogrify.. |
| 04:45.14 | scanline | Xentac: mostly a restructuring, though the network code, layout, and rendering will see a lot of rewriting |
| 04:45.38 | scanline | it will be like moving picogui from a monolithic kernel to a microkernel, if it was an OS |
| 04:45.41 | Xentac | but will it go 'Pop'? |
| 04:45.42 | scanline | s/will/would/ |
| 04:45.46 | scanline | maybe |
| 04:46.00 | Xentac | we all know that scientific advancements go Pop |
| 04:46.05 | Xentac | Calvin and Hobbes taught us that |
| 04:46.09 | scanline | exactly |
| 04:46.31 | Xentac | would it be the same to the clients...? |
| 04:46.41 | Xentac | or would it be that much different all over? |
| 04:46.55 | scanline | the client protocol would be redesigned |
| 04:47.13 | scanline | there would be big differences in how some widgets function |
| 04:47.22 | scanline | probably a new C client API |
| 04:47.34 | scanline | the python client won't change much |
| 04:48.13 | scanline | but yeah.. we'll basically be starting with an empty repository and building things back piece by piece |
| 04:48.41 | scanline | first piece will be the infrastructure for the microkernel-like design- build system, config system, RPC layer, and memory management |
| 04:51.45 | scanline | njs: mmm... no |
| 04:52.08 | scanline | from what I've considered so far, refcounting would be a very low overhead and effective solution for picogui's memory management |
| 04:52.24 | scanline | really the only place the current memory management is a pain is when you have to delete things ;) |
| 04:53.22 | njs | I wouldn't even suggest it, except I've been thinking about it recently, ever since reading Hans Boehm's pages where he points out things like: 1) garbage collection is just as fast as other methods, amortized, 2) his gc can do incremental collection if latency is a problem, so it really can be amortized, 3) empirically, memory wastage b/c your garbage collector hasn't run is comparable to memory wastage b/c of memory fragmentation in malloc |
| 04:54.59 | scanline | it seems like the unpredictability of GC would be a bad thing for interactive systems |
| 04:55.20 | scanline | but I don't have any experience actually using GC |
| 04:55.55 | dakoda | as far as i've seen, if gc is done well (a gc genius writes the code), it works nicely, but other than that, it's no good, esp for interactive systems |
| 04:56.07 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@h-69-3-54-50.DNVTCO56.covad.net) |
| 04:56.18 | laodamas | hello gonkulator |
| 04:56.23 | gonkulator | hey laodamas |
| 04:56.31 | Xentac | hey gonkulator |
| 04:56.32 | gonkulator | laodamas: did ya hear about my iBook |
| 04:56.35 | gonkulator | hi Xentac |
| 04:56.41 | laodamas | gonkulator: nope |
| 04:56.49 | gonkulator | laodamas: it went *fizzle* |
| 04:57.09 | laodamas | gonkulator: howso? |
| 04:57.16 | gonkulator | the hard drive stopped spinning |
| 04:57.29 | gonkulator | silly me didn't have a recient backup and lost data |
| 04:57.35 | scanline | njs: picogui already has a specialized allocator for its equivalent of scene graph nodes, since they are thrown away and reallocated so often... I'd probably want to extend the same concept to several of picogui's data structures that are always the same size and frequently reused |
| 04:58.00 | gonkulator | PicoGUI 2 point O, designed fast to be not slow! |
| 04:58.11 | laodamas | gonkulator: how boring! Electronics should always go out with a puff of black smoke. |
| 04:58.21 | gonkulator | laodamas: yeah |
| 04:58.28 | gonkulator | scanline: I have the perfect name for post picogui |
| 04:58.29 | dakoda | gonkulator: that's a great slogan :) |
| 04:58.29 | scanline | I figure if we don't change the name, the new version would be 0.50 or something... or maybe we change the versioning scheme too :) |
| 04:58.35 | gonkulator | scanline: kissler |
| 04:58.43 | scanline | gonkulator: feh |
| 04:58.53 | Xentac | kissler? |
| 05:00.17 | laodamas | scanline: Just follow the Mozilla example and asymptotically approach 1.0 while reinventing things every release :) |
| 05:00.39 | Xentac | laodamas: hehehe |
| 05:00.41 | scanline | laodamas: you followed the stuff on pgui-devel? |
| 05:01.08 | laodamas | scanline: not too closely |
| 05:01.44 | scanline | njs: hmm... another badthing about GC is that destructors are called at weird times. this could be bad for data that's actually in another process, like X11 bitmaps |
| 05:02.19 | gonkulator | dakoda: glad you like my slogan |
| 05:02.27 | laodamas | scanline: I have been having too much fun reading declassified documents on US weapons of mass descrution |
| 05:02.29 | gonkulator | scanline: some release somewhere needs to be called "Kissler" |
| 05:02.40 | scanline | mmkay |
| 05:02.59 | scanline | The name for 0.44... I just had to do it |
| 05:03.01 | Xentac | laodamas: it's much more fun reading the classified ones... |
| 05:03.27 | scanline | The boundary between opengl support and a big redesign was too funny to not use :) |
| 05:03.38 | Xentac | nemo: you know what your name reminds me of? did you ever play 'The Adventures Of Little Nemo' for NES? |
| 05:03.42 | laodamas | Xentac: Yes, but then the black helios start circiling overhead |
| 05:03.55 | nemo | Xentac: no, but I have a ROM of it which I've also never bothered to get an emu for. :) |
| 05:04.03 | Xentac | hehehe |
| 05:04.07 | Xentac | that was a fun game |
| 05:04.13 | Xentac | I wasn't all that great at it... but my friend was.. |
| 05:04.14 | nemo | Xentac: I've also got the complete Little Nemo in Slumberland comics |
| 05:04.25 | Xentac | hehehe |
| 05:04.44 | nemo | I'm not much of a gamer - I have one game console, and one game for it. (actually 2, but only one of them is worth playing IMHO |
| 05:04.52 | Xentac | hehehe |
| 05:05.10 | Xentac | I have like... well... 3 systems... and a handful of games for each.. |
| 05:05.11 | laodamas | nemo: Oh yeah, well I have a MAC! |
| 05:05.15 | nemo | actually, 2 consoles if you include a 1980 vintage Pong with rf signal out |
| 05:05.18 | nemo | ;) |
| 05:05.19 | Xentac | I used to be... back when NES was big |
| 05:05.30 | nemo | laodamas: sorry, hardware pong. I win. ;) |
| 05:05.45 | laodamas | nemo: grr |
| 05:06.18 | Xentac | my grandparents still have my dad's old vintage pong game... |
| 05:06.32 | nemo | Xentac: did it have a model number: "S/N-666" ? |
| 05:06.35 | Xentac | for the longest time I had a colecovision too |
| 05:06.38 | Xentac | hehehe |
| 05:06.42 | Xentac | does yours? |
| 05:06.45 | nemo | yup |
| 05:06.48 | dakoda | wow, my parents had one of those :) |
| 05:06.50 | nemo | er, model number |
| 05:06.52 | nemo | rather |
| 05:07.10 | nemo | er, that's what I said, right. /me shoots self in head to make room for foot |
| 05:07.28 | nemo | I'm afraid you beat me on colecovision though. I don't even recognise the name |
| 05:07.41 | Xentac | hehehe |
| 05:07.46 | dakoda | same era as the odyssee (magnavox?) |
| 05:08.00 | Xentac | I can't remember what else was out at the time actually... |
| 05:08.04 | Xentac | I got it second hand ;o) |
| 05:08.09 | Xentac | it was from a friend |
| 05:08.17 | nemo | nice |
| 05:08.29 | Xentac | then I sold it to one of my dad's friends... |
| 05:09.04 | Xentac | and my dad still has a TRS-80! one of the ones you had to hook up to the tv! |
| 05:09.16 | laodamas | I once owned an apple III |
| 05:09.33 | gonkulator | (marge voice) LISA (end marge voice) |
| 05:10.01 | Xentac | "The TRS-80 and the Apple II... they did was they were supposed to do" |
| 05:10.09 | laodamas | gonkulator: Played with one of those too. My high school had one. |
| 05:10.18 | gonkulator | it wasn't much, but it was enough |
| 05:10.38 | laodamas | And then steve jobs came on the scene |
| 05:11.07 | gonkulator | TDTiaB'd? |
| 05:11.43 | Xentac | Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie'd |
| 05:11.50 | gonkulator | ah |
| 05:11.56 | Xentac | nemo: send me the little nemo rom ;o) |
| 05:12.08 | Xentac | the other thing I haven't done is C2M |
| 05:12.30 | gonkulator | pah, its going to be 10 more minutes copying ROMS |
| 05:13.42 | laodamas | To me HAHAHA! Streaming at 100T saturation. |
| 05:13.51 | laodamas | done |
| 05:14.05 | Xentac | ah... now it's much faster... |
| 05:14.06 | Xentac | hehehe |
| 05:14.36 | nemo | Xentac: give me a sec, I have to drag it up a modem link |
| 05:14.47 | nemo | (it's only 150k) |
| 05:14.47 | Xentac | ah... ok... |
| 05:16.01 | gonkulator | Apple Happy Sleep |
| 05:16.54 | nemo | http://www.nut.house.cx/~nemo/extras/Little_Nemo-Dream_Master.nes.gz |
| 05:17.34 | Xentac | damn.. that means I have to get my gamepad set up again, eh? |
| 05:18.36 | nemo | hehe |
| 05:20.12 | gonkulator | well, I am off |
| 05:32.13 | Xentac | man... I did suck at this game... |
| 05:36.49 | scanline | welcome |
| 05:40.34 | SoopaVillan | nintendo rules |
| 05:40.43 | SoopaVillan | gonk, what systems do you collect? |
| 05:40.51 | dakoda | gonk=gone |
| 05:41.34 | SoopaVillan | interesting revelation |
| 06:16.06 | scanline | dude! |
| 06:16.14 | Xentac | dude? |
| 06:16.21 | captain_proton | DUDE |
| 06:16.23 | scanline | bitstream releases fonts for open source project use! |
| 06:16.30 | scanline | http://foundation.gnome.org/press/pr-bitstreamfonts.html. |
| 06:16.57 | scanline | no more openoffice and ghostscript fonts! |
| 06:17.43 | scanline | captain_proton: hey, you were gone when we decided to rewrite picogui:) |
| 06:18.30 | captain_proton | ? |
| 06:18.45 | scanline | I summarized it on picogui.org |
| 06:20.12 | captain_proton | hah |
| 06:21.57 | captain_proton | call it X++! |
| 06:22.02 | lurgyman | just to piss people off |
| 06:22.07 | lurgyman | in X' |
| 06:22.24 | scanline | we tossed around some names like "iuGui", but didn't come up with anything extremely spectacular |
| 06:22.37 | SoopaVillan | hahah |
| 06:22.45 | SoopaVillan | ircUI |
| 06:22.45 | lurgyman | scanline: how 'bout "xinara" |
| 06:22.52 | scanline | I'll probably end up sticking with picogui just because it'd be a pain to change it... could rationalize it as being more tightly integrated than a microkernel, and a kernel rather than a GUI |
| 06:23.05 | lurgyman | xinara="Xinara Is Not A Recursive Acronym" |
| 06:23.10 | scanline | lurgyman: child of xinarama? |
| 06:23.19 | scanline | hehe |
| 06:23.27 | scanline | that's cute |
| 06:23.29 | lurgyman | and it's extremely descriptive |
| 06:23.33 | scanline | of course |
| 06:23.57 | scanline | and not quite as ambiguous to pronounce as xine |
| 06:24.27 | scanline | s/kernel rather than a GUI/GUI rather than a kernel/ |
| 06:24.39 | lurgyman | not only does it say absolutely nothing about what it actually is, but it lies about its own title! |
| 06:24.46 | scanline | indeed |
| 06:24.53 | scanline | might be a good name for an app :) |
| 06:25.10 | lurgyman | it should replace xfree86 |
| 06:25.15 | lurgyman | which tells you nothing except that it's free |
| 06:27.31 | scanline | This redesign does bring picogui's architecture closer to fresco, but there are still major differences |
| 06:27.57 | scanline | IMHO it takes the best features of the existing PicoGUI design, HURD, Fresco, and X |
| 06:27.59 | Xentac | hmmm... LJ has all of their issues archived... from #1... |
| 06:29.27 | lurgyman | spiffy |
| 06:43.31 | SoopaVillan | fuck |
| 06:43.31 | SoopaVillan | -45C |
| 06:43.31 | SoopaVillan | with the windchill |
| 06:44.25 | Xentac | SoopaVillan: where you from? |
| 06:44.43 | Xentac | sounds like what I hear is in Manitoba... |
| 06:53.08 | *** join/#picogui SoopaVillan (~soopaman@h24-66-55-126.wp.shawcable.net) |
| 06:58.57 | captain_proton | mahler: only seven megabytes short of a gigabyte |
| 07:08.07 | SoopaVillan | scanline, do you plan on adding multi resolution via iuGui? |
| 07:08.14 | SoopaVillan | Xentac, yep. you are correct |
| 07:47.31 | njs | scanline: if you're still up -- what do you mean by "LIFO queueing delay"? |
| 07:50.31 | SoopaVillan | last in first out |
| 07:50.59 | SoopaVillan | ie a queue similar to a stack of dishes/plates |
| 07:51.05 | njs | I know what "LIFO" means, and I even know what "queueing" and "delay" mean; it's the combination I'm less sure about :-) |
| 07:52.14 | SoopaVillan | probably the delay it takes to clear the stack |
| 07:57.10 | *** join/#picogui ahnkana (~Gnu@aden2-135-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 07:58.36 | captain_proton | ahnkana: mornin! |
| 07:59.10 | *** join/#picogui kergoth`zzz (~kergoth@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 08:00.07 | ahnkana | oddly enough, despite the huge amount we used it wasn't truly a kicker in the taste |
| 08:02.15 | captain_proton | it felt nice to actually cook again - been a while |
| 08:03.42 | ahnkana | it was fun |
| 08:05.17 | ahnkana | i suck at cooking, but someday i would like to learn, my mom is a fabulous cook so it is possile for me to learn, but yea, brede and i did stuff like that all summer, so i got pretty good at throwing shtuff together and coming out with fod, and it's a lot of fun |
| 08:06.08 | captain_proton | there's really nothing to it |
| 08:06.31 | captain_proton | it pretty much consists of knowing how to handle a knife and not burn oneself |
| 08:06.42 | ahnkana | yea, the knife is a problem |
| 08:06.57 | ahnkana | but i rule at beef stew |
| 08:07.03 | ahnkana | we'll have to make that sometiem |
| 08:07.45 | ahnkana | oh well, i have a class at nine and my hw is now done so i am going to go practice some horizontal meditation |
| 08:07.53 | ahnkana | g'morning |
| 08:07.53 | captain_proton | hm, me too |
| 08:07.54 | captain_proton | 'night |
| 08:08.02 | ahnkana | it is not night! |
| 08:08.17 | captain_proton | fine |
| 08:08.24 | captain_proton | 'afternoon! |
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| 11:53.15 | file[laptop] | hi all |
| 15:19.48 | file[laptop] | Xentac: You were successful |
| 15:19.58 | Xentac | yes, with help from kergoth`zzz... |
| 15:20.12 | Xentac | and ignoring strange error messages.. |
| 15:20.16 | file[laptop] | are there still any problems with it? |
| 15:20.29 | Xentac | it still thinks there are unresolved symbols... |
| 15:20.32 | Xentac | but loads the module anyway |
| 15:20.40 | file[laptop] | uh huh |
| 15:22.39 | Xentac | that's your problem, not mine |
| 15:22.51 | file[laptop] | did you modify the module source any? |
| 15:22.55 | Xentac | no |
| 15:22.59 | file[laptop] | k |
| 15:23.27 | file[laptop] | so if I compile it in my homedir, then install it in the net dir, and type modprobe it should work? |
| 15:24.10 | Xentac | yeah... you might as well depmod first though |
| 15:24.19 | file[laptop] | ic |
| 15:24.31 | Xentac | yeah, no problem |
| 15:25.39 | Xentac | fuck... 60 km/h winds... |
| 15:33.23 | lurgyman | Xentac: that's nothing... |
| 15:33.44 | lurgyman | two years ago we got 120mph winds at our high school |
| 15:33.57 | Xentac | lurgyman: yeah, but did you ride a motorcycle that day? |
| 15:34.16 | lurgyman | i had my trombone in its case, which promptly started rolling down the road |
| 15:34.23 | Xentac | hehehe |
| 15:34.30 | Xentac | still, not as high speed ;o) |
| 15:35.04 | lurgyman | 120mph=193kph |
| 15:35.25 | file[laptop] | brb! |
| 15:35.29 | Xentac | lurgyman: I understand that... I'm not saying it's not fast |
| 15:35.40 | lurgyman | i know :-p |
| 15:35.45 | Xentac | I'm just saying that 60 km/h winds aren't "nothing" when you're on a motorcycle |
| 15:36.14 | lurgyman | maybe you should put a sail on your motorcycle |
| 15:36.18 | lurgyman | then you'll save on gas |
| 15:36.39 | lurgyman | enjoy yon's self |
| 15:53.29 | Xentac | lurgyman: yeah... or something |
| 16:00.19 | *** join/#picogui file (lan@mctn1-3110.nb.aliant.net) |
| 16:33.07 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@propellant.client.mscd.edu) |
| 16:33.34 | file | hi gonkulator |
| 16:33.49 | gonkulator | hello file |
| 16:34.16 | file | I've got enough $$$ for my new mobo, CPU, 256MB of RAM, and a 30GB hardrive :) |
| 16:34.27 | gonkulator | impressive |
| 16:35.43 | file | I'll send the money out tomorrow... the RAM and hardrive is getting shipped out tomorrow though |
| 16:36.30 | gonkulator | will you get a tracking number? |
| 16:36.37 | file | yes |
| 16:36.40 | file | it's being sent UPS :) |
| 16:37.45 | gonkulator | ah, thats no good |
| 16:38.17 | file | what the dingo? |
| 16:38.28 | gonkulator | sometimes he has good important things to say |
| 16:39.43 | Xentac | now... |
| 16:39.54 | gonkulator | morning Xentac |
| 16:39.59 | Xentac | I think I've decided to ride to school today... even though there are winds up to 60km/h |
| 16:39.59 | file | gonkulator: congratulate Xentac, he got my wireless nic driver working |
| 16:40.12 | Xentac | so... if you guys never hear from me again, it's because I died on the way to (or from) school |
| 16:40.13 | gonkulator | Xentac: good job |
| 16:40.19 | Xentac | ummm... thanks... |
| 16:40.23 | Xentac | kergoth helped too... |
| 16:40.28 | gonkulator | Xentac: I don't want you to die |
| 16:40.32 | gonkulator | Xentac: just take a car |
| 16:40.52 | Xentac | nah, too much hassle |
| 16:41.00 | Xentac | means I need to find a parking spot... and $5... |
| 16:41.06 | gonkulator | oh |
| 16:41.23 | gonkulator | well, your life certainly isn't worth the hastle and five CANADIAN dollars |
| 16:41.44 | Xentac | of course not |
| 16:42.05 | Xentac | I really doubt I'll die, but I figured I'd dress it up a bit |
| 16:42.28 | gonkulator | okey dokey |
| 16:42.55 | gonkulator | besides, people don't die in this movie, they just get really bad boo boos |
| 16:43.13 | Xentac | alrighty then |
| 16:43.27 | Xentac | if I did think I was going to die, I would drive |
| 16:43.37 | Xentac | it's not even raining right now! |
| 16:45.18 | gonkulator | :) |
| 16:46.05 | gonkulator | :p |
| 16:46.33 | Xentac | in the face... |
| 16:46.34 | Xentac | ;o) |
| 16:47.04 | file | my new mobo+CPU may get sent out tomorrow... but it'll take longer to get here |
| 16:47.07 | Xentac | woohoo! I broke your concentration! I'm winning! |
| 16:48.36 | gonkulator | later Xentac |
| 16:51.25 | gonkulator | ROFLMAO... my chinese professor just said "engrish" |
| 16:51.32 | file | LOL |
| 16:52.39 | gonkulator | this is a philosophy of language class, so it will happen again I am sure |
| 16:53.04 | lalo | hi ppl |
| 16:53.11 | gonkulator | hey lalo |
| 16:53.25 | lalo | PicoBot: seen scanline |
| 16:53.25 | PicoBot | scanline was last seen on #picogui 10 hours, 20 minutes and 14 seconds ago, saying: decides to get some "sleep" [Wed Jan 22 23:33:10 2003] |
| 16:53.35 | lalo | :-) |
| 16:53.37 | gonkulator | lalo: he should wake up in about 4 hours |
| 16:53.43 | lalo | PicoKernel, hehehe |
| 16:53.54 | lalo | how are things? |
| 16:55.44 | lalo | this is good :-) |
| 16:56.11 | gonkulator | and work is easy and fun |
| 16:56.17 | gonkulator | and yourself? |
| 16:56.29 | lalo | fun at work, too |
| 16:56.49 | lalo | a bit lonely, Maisa is in Rio and house seems very empty :-( |
| 16:56.54 | lalo | but at least I can sleep |
| 16:57.13 | gonkulator | if I was in your place :) |
| 16:57.27 | lalo | I would too |
| 16:57.30 | gonkulator | did she take Vitoria with her? |
| 17:01.36 | gonkulator | PicoBot: comfort lalo |
| 17:01.48 | gonkulator | :D |
| 17:03.43 | *** join/#picogui SoopaVillan (~soopaman@h24-66-55-126.wp.shawcable.net) |
| 17:04.51 | lalo | she did, the purpose of the trip was to show the baby to her family and friends |
| 17:04.59 | gonkulator | oh, ok |
| 17:05.09 | lalo | you know, I love Vitoria, but that is exactly the reason I have been able to sleep lately ;-) |
| 17:05.36 | gonkulator | :) |
| 17:05.41 | gonkulator | when do they get back? |
| 17:05.55 | lalo | monday |
| 17:06.18 | gonkulator | hopefully my iBook will be back by monday |
| 17:10.04 | gonkulator | hello SoopaVillan |
| 17:12.49 | SoopaVillan | what up gonk |
| 17:13.15 | gonkulator | you? |
| 17:15.02 | file[fake] | w00t |
| 17:15.04 | file[fake] | hi shut |
| 17:15.09 | SoopaVillan | philosophy rules |
| 17:15.10 | file[fake] | shut: you there |
| 17:15.21 | file[fake] | tracking |
| 17:15.24 | file[fake] | track |
| 17:15.29 | file[fake] | there we go |
| 17:15.37 | gonkulator | :) |
| 17:15.45 | gonkulator | SoopaVillan: yeah, philosophy is cool |
| 17:17.20 | gonkulator | he says "engrish" |
| 17:20.02 | gonkulator | bah... |
| 17:20.11 | gonkulator | he is arguing points that are dumb to argue |
| 17:21.27 | SoopaVillan | then smash him |
| 17:22.32 | gonkulator | SoopaVillan: do you know any fundamentalist christians? |
| 17:23.52 | gonkulator | SoopaVillan: they argue over dumb things like, did God create the world in 144 hours, or were they "symbolic" days |
| 17:23.55 | gonkulator | it doesn't matter |
| 17:23.59 | gonkulator | God created the world.. |
| 17:24.04 | gonkulator | and it is hard to make that distinction |
| 17:24.10 | gonkulator | it is the same sort of dumb argument |
| 17:24.14 | lurgyman | boulder is full of those... you'll probably see a pack of them just coming up the street this weekend |
| 17:24.38 | gonkulator | lurgyman: fundies? or dumb arguments? (or are they the same thing?) |
| 17:24.48 | lurgyman | oh, fundies *cough* |
| 17:26.06 | gonkulator | my ability to pun words makes it very easy to confuse them |
| 17:26.25 | lurgyman | my ability to be completely random makes it very easy to confuse solicitors |
| 17:26.26 | gonkulator | lurgyman: just think... the world was created in six daze |
| 17:26.35 | lurgyman | heh |
| 17:26.35 | gonkulator | or even better |
| 17:26.38 | gonkulator | sick's daze |
| 17:26.58 | gonkulator | therefore, God was hungover and made a mistake! |
| 17:27.26 | lurgyman | He be a fair alcoholic, then |
| 17:27.35 | gonkulator | yeah |
| 17:27.39 | gonkulator | his blood is wine |
| 17:27.52 | gonkulator | that has a lot of alcohol in it |
| 17:28.47 | gonkulator | lurgyman: say something random |
| 17:29.22 | lurgyman | my god... THE PIZZAS ARE ON US!!! |
| 17:29.37 | gonkulator | w00t |
| 17:29.39 | gonkulator | PicoBot: yow |
| 17:29.39 | PicoBot | I represent a sardine!! |
| 17:29.46 | gonkulator | lurgyman: your turn |
| 17:29.55 | lurgyman | my meatloaf launcher is broken |
| 17:30.14 | gonkulator | thats good |
| 17:30.17 | gonkulator | :) |
| 17:30.48 | gonkulator | speaking of food launchers, shal we go to McGuckins the next time I am up and purchase the parts for a spud gun? |
| 17:31.14 | lurgyman | uh oh |
| 17:31.24 | gonkulator | you can say no |
| 17:31.28 | gonkulator | but I would like to |
| 17:32.09 | gonkulator | but I will be next week |
| 17:34.15 | lurgyman | :( |
| 17:38.35 | gonkulator | sowwie |
| 17:41.50 | SoopaVillan | gonkulator, you around? |
| 17:42.09 | gonkulator | SoopaVillan: no |
| 17:42.11 | gonkulator | :) |
| 17:42.21 | gonkulator | class will be getting out in about 3 minutes |
| 17:42.26 | SoopaVillan | oh ok |
| 17:45.18 | gonkulator | and that time is now! |
| 17:45.23 | gonkulator | PicoBot: class |
| 17:52.45 | *** join/#picogui TD (~mike@bdsl.66.13.154.244.gte.net) |
| 17:53.08 | TD | 'lo all. congrats on the new release. in the mailing list micah said something about scons doing app packaging? |
| 17:53.08 | *** join/#picogui laodamas (christop@bakr23-130.resnet.colorado.edu) |
| 17:53.21 | TD | i'm interested in knowing how you guys intend to distribute pg |
| 17:54.05 | lalo | what do you mean? |
| 17:54.41 | TD | as in distributing binaries |
| 17:54.55 | TD | it appeared that it was intended for scons to be used? |
| 17:57.35 | *** join/#picogui darth_iBook (~evanshee@wireless-203.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 17:59.26 | TD | oh, also, could somebody explain the benefits of microkernelizing the server? |
| 17:59.32 | TD | that bit confused me. |
| 18:02.42 | *** join/#picogui ahnkana (~Gnu@aden2-135-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
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| 18:08.39 | darth_iBook | ahnkana: morning! |
| 18:08.49 | darth_iBook | we're learning basic linux commands ^_^ |
| 18:12.21 | lalo | TD: sorry, work called |
| 18:12.34 | lalo | you know scons? |
| 18:15.25 | lalo | the microkernelization means each part would be replaceable and replicateable |
| 18:16.21 | lalo | for example, if the layout server is not the same thing as the widget server, then it's easier to have the same picogui environment (eg, set of windows) displayed in two different screens, with different resolutions and different themes |
| 18:16.53 | lalo | and perhaps even different rendering engines - you could have it on your desktop with the spiffiest overlapping translucent engine, and on your pda with the most lightweight engine |
| 18:19.54 | TD | ahhh |
| 18:19.59 | TD | thanks |
| 18:20.04 | TD | i only know of scons what i read on the site |
| 18:20.50 | lalo | it's a python-based replacement for make and autoconf |
| 18:21.16 | lalo | it doesn't much solve the binary distribution problem |
| 18:21.53 | lalo | the app packaging idea is another thing, almost unrelated - but Micah figured it would be easier to do it with scons |
| 18:22.49 | *** join/#picogui darth_iBook (~evanshee@wireless-203.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 18:24.39 | TD | any of you guys going to fosdem? |
| 18:31.02 | lalo | not me, wrong hemisphere :-) |
| 18:33.42 | SoopaVillan | is there a good kde based samba configurer? |
| 18:35.35 | *** join/#picogui prae (~prae@62.212.100.153) |
| 18:37.31 | scanline | hmm |
| 18:37.47 | scanline | TD: fosdem? |
| 18:39.23 | lalo | hi scanline |
| 18:39.32 | scanline | hi lalo |
| 18:39.37 | lalo | astrology lab??? |
| 18:39.57 | scanline | it's supposed to be "astronomy", but I don't think it is... |
| 18:40.07 | scanline | today we learned what an AU is |
| 18:40.21 | scanline | and... |
| 18:40.24 | scanline | how to divide! |
| 18:40.49 | scanline | I would have been there for another hour and a half, but I left early |
| 18:42.36 | TD | scanline: yeah |
| 18:42.45 | TD | i'm investigating going to meet up there with a few fellow developers |
| 18:42.54 | TD | i've just been asking around to see if many people are going |
| 18:44.43 | TD | brussels |
| 18:45.03 | scanline | ah. A tad bit far away from where I am :) |
| 18:46.53 | *** join/#picogui darth_iBook (~evanshee@wireless-203.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 18:48.00 | scanline | TD: are you from Fresco? |
| 18:49.49 | darth_iBook | ooh, we're learning about makefiles now |
| 18:49.50 | darth_iBook | hehe |
| 18:53.50 | TD | scanline: no no |
| 18:53.51 | TD | autopackage |
| 18:53.52 | TD | why? |
| 18:53.59 | scanline | curiosity |
| 18:54.01 | TD | where are you based? |
| 19:08.52 | scanline | lalo: http://subversion.tigris.org/license-1.html |
| 19:09.04 | scanline | It has some advertising-clause-type stuff in it |
| 19:10.39 | lalo | oh, ic. |
| 19:10.53 | lalo | gnu is historically touchy about advertising clauses |
| 19:14.41 | scanline | http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=5928 |
| 19:14.52 | scanline | still, arch has a really funky command line syntax :) |
| 19:15.31 | lalo | it does. |
| 19:16.02 | lalo | and till a few landry versions ago, you had to create the log, edit it, and commit - three separate operations |
| 19:16.53 | scanline | saw that in the article, wasn't sure if it was still like that or not |
| 19:19.57 | lalo | well, not it's just two :-P |
| 19:20.15 | lalo | you can configure makelog to edit it with your fave editor |
| 19:20.27 | lalo | I have mine set to gnuclient |
| 19:21.14 | scanline | heya captain_proton |
| 19:21.22 | lalo | scanline: emerge arch-landry |
| 19:21.28 | scanline | ah |
| 19:21.29 | lalo | arch is Tom's old version |
| 19:22.14 | lalo | and arch-landry is still a bit outdated... but then you can use it to get the latest :-) |
| 19:22.20 | scanline | ok |
| 19:23.04 | captain_proton | allo |
| 19:23.34 | scanline | hmm |
| 19:23.47 | scanline | so when arch generates commit mail, it's the client doing it not the server? |
| 19:25.52 | lalo | yes |
| 19:26.13 | lalo | in some aspects this is better, in others it's a can of worms |
| 19:26.41 | captain_proton | scanline: you shoulda come last night |
| 19:27.29 | *** join/#picogui file (lan@mctn1-2076.nb.aliant.net) |
| 19:28.03 | captain_proton | >:) |
| 19:28.19 | scanline | theme.. song..? |
| 19:28.20 | SoopaVillan | themesong? |
| 19:28.45 | captain_proton | bugs, bugs, bugs. keep coming up. every time we think we're done...ooooooooOOOoo |
| 19:28.54 | captain_proton | but i've got a plan...if you'd only hold my hand... |
| 19:32.46 | scanline | lalo: maybe in this redesign I'll implement a real debug console rather than the 'magic keys' :) |
| 19:34.49 | lalo | ooo |
| 19:34.49 | lalo | in picogui you type ctrl-alt-tilde and get the magical PGConsole! |
| 19:34.49 | lalo | where you can type things like "give bfg9000" |
| 19:34.49 | lalo | wait, wrong one. |
| 19:34.59 | scanline | =) |
| 19:35.12 | scanline | scary how close that is to what I was actually planning to do |
| 19:36.32 | file | scanline: guru meditation! |
| 19:38.30 | TD | how long do you think this rewrite will take? |
| 19:38.41 | scanline | TD: good question |
| 19:39.02 | TD | a few months. a year. a few years? |
| 19:39.05 | TD | an.... eternity? |
| 19:39.12 | scanline | Given that I have a lot of experience and code from the original, plus a pretty clear design, shouldn't take that long :) |
| 19:39.39 | TD | so which of a, b or c then. very very rough guestimate |
| 19:39.48 | scanline | a year? |
| 19:40.03 | TD | cool. that's what i'm estimating for my project to be feature complete, but it's less complex |
| 19:40.04 | lalo | that's one of those funny situations |
| 19:40.08 | TD | so that sounds about right to me |
| 19:40.13 | TD | not that i'd know |
| 19:40.14 | scanline | TD: what's your project? |
| 19:40.16 | TD | but it "feels" right |
| 19:40.23 | TD | distro-neutral packaging/software installation |
| 19:40.30 | scanline | ah |
| 19:40.34 | TD | ie replacing rpm/apt with something non-sucky |
| 19:40.36 | lalo | if we abandoned picogui, the rewrite would take a few months; but we don't want to do that, so it will take more :-P |
| 19:40.51 | lalo | apt sucks? |
| 19:41.14 | TD | yeah |
| 19:41.16 | TD | doesn't scale |
| 19:41.40 | kergoth | 'distro-neutral'? just teach the buildsystem to produce packages for all the standard forms. rpm, deb, ipk, and pure make install |
| 19:41.41 | captain_proton | i |
| 19:41.48 | captain_proton | i've fallen in love with my replicant.... |
| 19:41.52 | TD | there's a discussion of it and the issues on autopackage.org |
| 19:42.22 | TD | kergoth: not really good enough. it ties it to a build system for one. plus rpm, deb and the rest have lots of problems |
| 19:42.29 | scanline | kergoth: it will be interesting getting this post-PicoGUI build system to communicate smoothly with OZ |
| 19:42.31 | scanline | err, OE |
| 19:42.32 | kergoth | TD: and they're still _used_ |
| 19:42.33 | TD | you'd need to generate a lot of rpms to cover all the versions of the rpm using distros |
| 19:42.38 | kergoth | yep |
| 19:42.48 | kergoth | users dont use autopackage, they use whatever came with their distribution. |
| 19:43.01 | kergoth | its not a project like picoGUI's job to influence the packaging choice of its users. |
| 19:43.07 | TD | ah no. autopackage layers on top of the distro and will autoinstall itself if necessary. no effort needed |
| 19:43.11 | TD | sure, you can provide rpms as well |
| 19:43.13 | kergoth | it should _cater_ to their packaging choice |
| 19:43.18 | TD | it's not meant to replace rpm/deb etc |
| 19:43.19 | kergoth | i didnt claim it involved effort |
| 19:43.22 | kergoth | read what i wrote again. |
| 19:43.44 | TD | yes, i read it. most people don't choose their distro based on the packaging system |
| 19:43.48 | TD | otherwise everybody would use debian |
| 19:43.54 | captain_proton | my friends are obsolete! |
| 19:44.11 | TD | clearly, that's not the case. so we need something that the developer can create once, and will work even on tiny or custom distros |
| 19:44.33 | kergoth | irrelevent. _How_ they obtained the packaging system is irrelevent. The fact is, users will still want packages built for their existing packaging system. |
| 19:44.38 | TD | why? |
| 19:44.40 | scanline | captain_proton: I just listened to that one :) |
| 19:44.45 | kergoth | adding support for autopackage is fine, but excluding rpm/deb woudl be fucking stupid. |
| 19:44.47 | TD | bear in mind they can integrate with rpm |
| 19:44.47 | lalo | I switched from debian to gentoo because I like its packaging system better. |
| 19:44.49 | captain_proton | good song :) |
| 19:44.50 | kergoth | you cater to the users. |
| 19:44.51 | TD | it doesn't break the rpm datbase |
| 19:44.55 | kergoth | you're not listening. |
| 19:45.21 | scanline | lalo: same here, though I think gonkulator switched because he can't install debian :) |
| 19:45.34 | TD | no, i understand you fine. i'm not saying people shouldn't create rpms if they want to. but how many developers curently generate even any binary packages at all? |
| 19:45.59 | TD | many don't, it's just too much effort. rpms have other problems too |
| 19:46.03 | TD | like for apt to work, you need basically centralised repositories/naming systems |
| 19:46.15 | scanline | well, the main tricky bit in generating binary packages is linking against the right libraries |
| 19:46.18 | captain_proton | we generate rpms for all our machines at work |
| 19:46.21 | TD | yeah |
| 19:46.33 | TD | there is a nasty bug/issue in the linker that is a problem for that |
| 19:46.51 | TD | captain_proton: sure, but most users can't/won't/don't do that |
| 19:46.54 | scanline | you could make static binaries for all the platforms :) |
| 19:47.13 | captain_proton | TD: doesn't make it less useful |
| 19:47.24 | TD | i think not :) i don't want to be lynched |
| 19:47.50 | TD | captain_proton: i know, i'm just saying that having users build their own rpms isn't a long term solution, which is what we're working on |
| 19:48.52 | kergoth | I never install apps outside the package managemetn system, but thats a personal choice |
| 19:48.56 | kergoth | heh |
| 19:49.39 | TD | would you if you could but still preserve the database integrity? |
| 19:49.41 | lalo | TD: I won't try to prove you wrong, but I think it's a silly and unneeded idea and I wouldn't use it. |
| 19:49.41 | TD | and have the features or rpm + some more? |
| 19:50.04 | TD | lalo: fine. the source tarballs aren't going to go away. there are a lot of people who think it's not silly and it is needed however |
| 19:50.11 | kergoth | heh |
| 19:50.29 | kergoth | I use debian, and use deb-make to generate a base rules file i then alter to ensure it gets dropped into the system in a sane way |
| 19:50.32 | kergoth | no problems |
| 19:50.56 | TD | do you use unstable? |
| 19:51.24 | lalo | TD: in the end you'll end up having yet another distro ;-) |
| 19:51.41 | lalo | there were other attempts at an "unified" packaging system before, they all resulted instead in "yet another" packaging system |
| 19:51.59 | captain_proton | *gasp* |
| 19:52.04 | captain_proton | our do homework faster sign fell down |
| 19:53.37 | TD | lalo: if they worked the same way ours did, then i haven't come across them |
| 19:53.53 | TD | and we have no interest in replacing rpm or deb. they'll still deal with the system stuff |
| 19:53.56 | TD | this is primarily for apps |
| 19:53.57 | kergoth | I wont use it personally, I'd rather put work into improving the packaging system i use |
| 19:54.02 | kergoth | its a waste of my time to install it |
| 19:54.02 | TD | the stuff you find on sourceforge etc |
| 19:54.29 | TD | then don't, it's not targetted at people like you anyway, it's meant for people who use the easy-to-use distros and want two click installs with no hassle |
| 19:55.07 | lalo | as I said - you can build a great distro, but you will end up building a distro. |
| 19:55.13 | lalo | now, I have to work :-) |
| 19:57.31 | TD[food] | lalo: we'll see. i think you're wrong, we'll never ever support packaging libc, which is kind of what that implies |
| 19:57.40 | TD[food] | anyway, bbiab |
| 20:16.11 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@propellant.client.mscd.edu) |
| 20:18.07 | gonkulator | lurgyman: wasted tornados digest purple cheese |
| 20:20.14 | scanline | captain_proton: so, when you think that new subversion server will be up? |
| 20:23.54 | SoopaVillan | gonk |
| 20:23.55 | captain_proton | scanline: dunno |
| 20:23.59 | captain_proton | whenever he gets around to it |
| 20:24.22 | scanline | Once we decide between svn and arch I'll probably just set up a server on navi that we can move later |
| 20:24.29 | SoopaVillan | how do i find out the pci id/s hardware id's of my minipci network card? |
| 20:24.47 | scanline | lspci |
| 20:25.08 | TD | if you use arch better have good docs on the site. the linux journal article was rather vague about it |
| 20:25.10 | gonkulator | hi SoopaVillan |
| 20:25.31 | scanline | TD: well, the main thing that bothers me about arch is that the command line syntax is pretty bad |
| 20:25.50 | SoopaVillan | what is up |
| 20:26.00 | scanline | bbl |
| 20:27.02 | TD | scanline: yeah, i noticed. that's what scared me off. subversion makes a lot more sense, but required apache 2, and i couldn't be bothered upgrading my server, so i went with cvs. path of least resistance and all that |
| 20:30.32 | gonkulator | captain_proton: thats gross |
| 20:30.51 | gonkulator | it would be twice as gross if you did it two times less than 146 |
| 20:31.31 | gonkulator | PicoBot: seen shut |
| 20:31.32 | PicoBot | shut was last seen on #picogui 3 hours, 16 minutes and 6 seconds ago, saying: up file [Thu Jan 23 10:15:25 2003] |
| 20:31.33 | captain_proton | gonkulator: you're the one who only uses lickable software |
| 20:31.43 | gonkulator | captain_proton: explain |
| 20:31.44 | file | eh? |
| 20:31.47 | file | PicoBot: seen shut |
| 20:31.48 | PicoBot | shut was last seen on #picogui 2 seconds ago, saying: up file [Thu Jan 23 13:31:44 2003] |
| 20:31.49 | file | haha |
| 20:32.03 | captain_proton | gonkulator: mr. osx |
| 20:32.19 | gonkulator | captain_proton: so? |
| 20:32.24 | gonkulator | captain_proton: I didn't realize it was lickable |
| 20:32.26 | gonkulator | :) |
| 20:32.51 | gonkulator | AND, if you use subversion, that has already been stated to be lickable |
| 20:38.31 | file | Mr. Strict |
| 20:43.57 | gonkulator | file: Mr. Pig |
| 20:45.28 | captain_proton | scanline: you need to port picogui to rootless on QNX |
| 20:46.29 | TD | scanline: btw are you going to change the name or not? |
| 20:46.40 | TD | you really need a name as cool as X |
| 20:46.52 | captain_proton | X++!! |
| 20:47.07 | TD | i think not |
| 20:47.08 | TD | Z? |
| 20:47.22 | TD | a single letter has the advantage of understated coolness |
| 20:47.43 | captain_proton | a single letter also sound corny because X is so popular |
| 20:48.40 | X | this name is taken |
| 20:48.54 | lurgyman | phi |
| 20:48.57 | lurgyman | that's a cool letter |
| 20:49.15 | X | hmm... |
| 20:49.29 | TD | do a prince |
| 20:49.39 | TD | give it an unpronouncable symbol |
| 20:49.50 | gonkulator | I tried to set Ž as my nick |
| 20:49.53 | gonkulator | it didn't work |
| 20:50.55 | lalo | you can do [_] probably |
| 20:52.52 | [-] | yep |
| 20:52.58 | [-] | this is actually kind of cool |
| 20:53.14 | lurgyman | Ï„ |
| 20:53.36 | [-] | and now I own this nick :) |
| 20:53.51 | lurgyman | windowsâ„¢ |
| 20:54.27 | [ | doh |
| 20:54.35 | [ | if I don't change my nick, I'll be disconnected |
| 20:55.16 | lurgyman | ∞ ♠♥ ♣ ♦ |
| 20:55.30 | gonkulator | ]: did it give you the 60 second notice? |
| 20:55.48 | ] | teag |
| 20:55.48 | ] | yeah |
| 20:55.49 | gonkulator | ]: or did you get the one minute notice |
| 20:56.03 | TD | my client forbids quite a lot of short nicks |
| 20:56.26 | ` | no way |
| 20:56.28 | gonkulator | ---You are now known as [ |
| 20:56.28 | gonkulator | -NickServ-This nickname may not be used. Please choose another. |
| 20:56.28 | gonkulator | -NickServ-If you do not change within one minute, you will be disconnected |
| 20:56.30 | ` | somebody owns this nick |
| 20:56.34 | ` | yeah, i got that one |
| 20:56.41 | gonkulator | hmm.. |
| 20:56.52 | lurgyman | 2.99€ |
| 20:57.09 | gonkulator | the tip of my ear hurts |
| 20:57.12 | | | cool |
| 20:57.17 | | | somebody owns this nick too |
| 20:57.19 | lurgyman | 3 and ½ badgers please |
| 20:58.14 | file | rrrrrrrrrrrright |
| 20:58.28 | gonkulator | well, I need to use my computer for jack testing |
| 20:58.32 | gonkulator | later everyone |
| 22:25.00 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@propellant.client.mscd.edu) |
| 22:25.09 | gonkulator | ibot: seen PicoBot? |
| 22:25.10 | | picobot <~PicoBot@aden2-241-dhcp.Colorado.EDU> was last seen on IRC in channel #picogui, 1h 53m 22s ago, saying: 'shut was last seen on #picogui 2 seconds ago, saying: up file [Thu Jan 23 13:31:44 2003]'. |
| 22:27.54 | file | negative |
| 22:30.05 | gonkulator | no? |
| 22:30.09 | gonkulator | where is scanline and PicoBot? |
| 22:30.12 | gonkulator | and shut |
| 22:30.13 | file | they all timed out |
| 22:30.14 | gonkulator | there is no shut |
| 22:30.16 | gonkulator | ! |
| 22:30.17 | gonkulator | weird |
| 22:30.49 | gonkulator | hmm... |
| 23:08.28 | *** join/#picogui darth_iBook (~evanshee@buck27-202-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 23:08.30 | *** join/#picogui darth_balls (~evanshee@buck27-202-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 23:08.50 | gonkulator | hi darth_iBook |
| 23:08.53 | darth_iBook | hi gonku |
| 23:08.56 | darth_iBook | arg |
| 23:09.36 | darth_iBook | lol |
| 23:11.52 | gonkulator | darth_iBook: have you seen scanline? |
| 23:11.56 | darth_iBook | not today |
| 23:12.01 | gonkulator | darth_iBook: navi is down, and all that jazz |
| 23:13.50 | lalo | gonkulator: we talked a bit today |
| 23:16.01 | gonkulator | lalo: do you know why he is gone? |
| 23:16.59 | lalo | I was checking |
| 23:17.10 | lalo | but I know nothing you don't :-) |
| 23:17.24 | lalo | oh, actually you weren't around when he went down |
| 23:17.42 | lalo | about 2 hours ago, he and PicoBot went down with "connection timed out" |
| 23:17.52 | lalo | either he's without connection, or he's without power |
| 23:18.51 | gonkulator | well, I would guess neither |
| 23:19.00 | gonkulator | captain_proton is in the same dorm |
| 23:22.12 | *** join/#picogui fraggle (~fraggle@tuneless.plus.com) |
| 23:22.18 | lalo | really? weird |
| 23:23.08 | lalo | but captain_proton's connection is the same as scanline's? perhaps it was something like a broken hub |
| 23:23.19 | lalo | don't you people have, like, phones? :-) |
| 23:25.00 | lalo | when scanline went down he was already away for about an hour... so perhaps his hub misbehaved while we was out of the dorm? |
| 23:25.01 | lalo | or someone |
| 23:25.01 | lalo | or someone's pet chewed on some cable. My cat got this new hobby. |
| 23:25.07 | fraggle | heh |
| 23:25.23 | lalo | one earphone and one cellular charger down this week and counting. |
| 23:25.57 | lalo | I hope someday he chews on something attached to 220 and survives. That will take the idea away from his little cute dumb head. |
| 23:28.17 | *** part/#picogui TD[gone] (~mike@bdsl.66.13.154.244.gte.net) |
| 23:29.52 | gonkulator | lalo: its possible, but his server has a connection into the university's LAN without his hub |
| 23:30.03 | gonkulator | but I am at work |
| 23:30.10 | gonkulator | and I have lots of screwing around to do |
| 23:30.15 | gonkulator | no time to make phone calls :) |
| 23:31.15 | lalo | you're paid to screw around? sounds fun. |
| 23:31.26 | gonkulator | yeah |
| 23:31.41 | gonkulator | I have some stuff to screw around with that I haven't had time to get to yet |
| 23:33.51 | gonkulator | lalo: I only get paid 8.50 an hour though... |
| 23:37.48 | gonkulator | t |
| 23:37.50 | gonkulator | starcrafT |
| 23:38.51 | *** join/#picogui Talez (bleh@d3t4.arach.net.au) |
| 23:41.57 | *** join/#picogui plfiorini (~plfiorini@host239-12.pool80180.interbusiness.it) |
| 23:41.59 | plfiorini | hi |
| 23:42.27 | plfiorini | someone has compiled picogui 0.44 on freebsd (5.0)? |
| 23:42.38 | plfiorini | s/someone/who/ |
| 23:42.43 | Keyser[zzz] | .44? |
| 23:42.49 | Keyser[zzz] | didn't that come out yesterday? |
| 23:43.59 | plfiorini | KeyserSoze: probably, it's the latest i found |
| 23:44.29 | KeyserSoze | are you using CVS, or a tarball? |
| 23:44.30 | plfiorini | i have a problem with ltconfig doing a ./configure --blahblah |
| 23:44.40 | plfiorini | KeyserSoze: i am using the official tarball |
| 23:45.03 | plfiorini | the error is "ltconfig: you must specify a host type if you use `--no-verify' |
| 23:45.03 | plfiorini | Try `ltconfig --help' for more information. |
| 23:45.03 | plfiorini | configure: error: libtool configure failed" |
| 23:45.21 | plfiorini | libtool is 1.3.4 |
| 23:45.21 | kergoth | dontcha just love libtool? |
| 23:45.48 | kergoth | plfiorini: so specify a host type then |
| 23:46.11 | gonkulator | KeyserSoze: howdy |
| 23:46.36 | KeyserSoze | hi |
| 23:46.47 | gonkulator | kergoth: ah, the simple ones :) |
| 23:47.03 | kergoth | :) |
| 23:47.07 | kergoth | LIBTOOL_IS_A_FOOL! |
| 23:47.16 | KeyserSoze | any of y'all know of a tool to count lines of code? preferably one that has an ebuild. |
| 23:47.20 | fraggle | heh |
| 23:47.25 | fraggle | i love that define |
| 23:47.31 | kergoth | cat blah.c | wc -l? |
| 23:47.32 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:47.33 | fraggle | where is that from |
| 23:47.48 | plfiorini | kergoth: configure has found i386-unknown-freebsdelf5.0 but i can't understand why it doesn't pass the correct parameters to libcracktool |
| 23:47.58 | *** join/#picogui file (lan@mctn1-4085.nb.aliant.net) |
| 23:48.34 | KeyserSoze | plfiorini: i mumble in my head when i read your nick. is there a pronunciation i should be using? |
| 23:49.08 | gonkulator | hi Miles |
| 23:49.12 | gonkulator | where is Gina? |
| 23:49.20 | kergoth | pilfyoureeny is how i pronounce it in my head |
| 23:49.20 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:49.20 | KeyserSoze | gina is 3 feet to my left. |
| 23:49.30 | gonkulator | give her a big smooch for me, K? |
| 23:49.36 | plfiorini | KeyserSoze: my names is pier luigi fiorini, so plfiorini |
| 23:49.43 | plfiorini | s/names/name/ |
| 23:49.53 | KeyserSoze | gonkulator: no, she's 3 feet away. what am i supposed to do, get up? |
| 23:50.26 | KeyserSoze | plfiorini: ah, gotcha. |
| 23:51.38 | gonkulator | KeyserSoze: yes, get up |
| 23:51.41 | gonkulator | KeyserSoze: go to her |
| 23:52.10 | KeyserSoze | uh oh, now i got her all worked up. :) |
| 23:52.33 | gonkulator | well, best go finish the job |
| 23:53.02 | gonkulator | *KeyserSoze is away: finishing the job |
| 23:54.47 | file | debugging is great |
| 23:55.36 | gonkulator | later everyone |