IRC log for #qi-hardware on 20120608

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01:00.49cladamwwpwrak, good morning !
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01:06.55cladamwwpwrak, i recalled that new features of Fped will have three densities (Max. Median, Min. ) depends on IPC-7351, i am going to make a generic TC package from page 37 of http://www.kemet.com/kemet/web/homepage/kechome.nsf/vapubfiles/KEM_TC102_LOWESR.pdf/$file/KEM_TC102_LOWESR.pdf  I'll use Median scale. Is it supposedly Fped tried to use Median to scale up / down ?
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02:00.08wpwrakcladamw: it doesn't work like that. fped itself doesn'tknow anything about densities. you have to express that in your footprint definition.
02:01.12wpwrakhere is my current "work in progress" for QFP: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/kicad-libs/source/tree/master/modules/qfp-gen.fpd
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02:01.44wpwrakas you can see, i have a density table with parameters that change depending on the density
02:10.18cladamwman! are you trying to say that all fpd had better to have such three densities ?
02:12.49wpwrak;-) you get to choose where you want to have them or not :)
02:16.50cladamwthis example is definitely great to show how densities they work. but I found its hi-lighting shown are not very good to 'review'. this code is mostly like a PHD work instead of nominal purpose though. :-)
02:18.40cladamwno hi-light can be shown. If someone learns this Fped, the code is relatively not to read easily.
02:20.17cladamwhe needs very very familiar with this Fped to click to hi-light. :-)
02:22.08wpwrakyou'll notice that the latest fped is a little better at highlighting than the old one
02:22.27wpwrakbut yes, the structure of these components is not trivial
02:22.48wpwrakof course, already figuring out what IPC-7351 says is quite a pain ...
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02:23.51wpwrak(and i'm not sure i really got it all - my footprints don't look like any of the vendor footprints that supposedly follow IPC-7351)
02:24.20wpwrak(though my footprints should work. when i print them and place a real chip on them, they look quite reasonable)
02:26.32cladamwall *.fpd are surely good to follow IPC-7351 in the end, but this would be taken more researches for each package, especially there's lots of them.
02:27.31wpwrakoh yes. it's a lot of work
02:27.33cladamwthe footprints get met completely with IPC, the samples on hand should quite meet 1:1 scaling paper design work for sure.
02:28.04wpwrakbut if we get the hang of it, we can avoid a lot of guesswork in the future
02:29.08wpwrakthe fped language is a but more powerful that it looks because you also have access to the c preprocessor, cpp. so you have macros and include files.
02:29.14cladamwbut now i won't do such to meet all fpd to this IPC in short time excepts like KEMET has complete table there, then I make it to be.
02:29.45wpwrakwith this, some of the IPC-7351 math could be kept in a central location, instead of doing it in each footprint
02:30.07wpwrakbut that would need some way to express such things in the gui
02:30.54cladamwagreed, if do so, needs to work out good expression in gui.
02:31.15wpwraki consider my work on IPC-7351 footprints experimental for now. so yes, no need to rush with copying it :)
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05:05.03qi-botThe build has FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120607-0926
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05:31.24qi-bot[commit] Adam Wang: c-t-smd.fpd: added variants named: TC-$Case-$EIA-$Density for relevant EIA size of Tantalum capacitors (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/9a717ee
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07:51.41qi-bot[commit] Adam Wang: stdpass.fpd: added 1812 size which referred from TycoElectronics (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/17ae71b
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09:23.48qi-bot[commit] nbd: iproute2: fix build errors with newer versions of eglibc (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/27057b9
09:23.49qi-bot[commit] nbd: eglibc: use 2.15 by default (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/67b7bdf
09:23.50qi-bot[commit] jow: [package] base-files: implement network_defer_device() and network_ready_device() wrappers for upcoming netifd iface deferring support (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/ab865f7
09:23.52qi-bot[commit] blogic: [tools] fixes python related autokrampf install bug (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/5aab29d
09:23.54qi-bot[commit] nbd: e2fsprogs: add posix_memalign related portability patch from #8508 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/9c88d96
09:23.56qi-bot[commit] nbd: include/netfilter.mk: clean up, remove junk for old kernel versions (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/7bd3c3f
09:23.58qi-bot[commit] nbd: xburst: remove an obsolete CompareKernelPatchVer call (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/cc530eb
09:24.01qi-bot[commit] nbd: prereq-build: flex is built in tools/ - do not require it to be installed on the host (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/a165494
09:24.03qi-bot[commit] nbd: kernel: add module packages for usbip (from the packages feed) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/a1b2ddf
09:24.05qi-bot[commit] Mirko Vogt: add <http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/software/mirror-openwrt-sources/> (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/8001e29
09:24.07qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot-xburst: update to 2010.06 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d1d8084
09:24.09qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot-xburst: enable-silent-console.patch (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/ccd9387
09:24.11qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot silent console (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/7200ed7
09:24.13qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot-xburst: change load kernel size (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/2705c20
09:24.15qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: xburst: add WPAN support (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/cfa3816
09:24.17qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add WPAN(atben,atusb) kernel module file thansk blogic #qi-hardware @freenode.net (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/521615a
09:24.19qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: xburst qi_lb60 disable WPAN kernel options, should build as module (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/fb07ad2
09:24.21qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: xburst: add Ben NanoNote kernel logo (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/4e3f88b
09:24.23qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: xburst: qi_lb60 select the nanonote slash screen (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/cd994e8
09:24.25qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: remove xburst target borken (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d5ee224
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10:02.21xiangfuopenwrt-xburst rebased on latest openwrt upstream (Jun 7 svn://svn.openwrt.org/openwrt/trunk@32117)
10:02.32xiangfunow the only diff is uboot and WPAN patches. :-)
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10:44.33qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot-xburst: update to 2010.06 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/af1689d
10:44.34qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot-xburst: enable-silent-console.patch (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/fea83e4
10:44.35qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot silent console (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/a02cee8
10:44.37qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: uboot-xburst: change load kernel size (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/a6bc3df
10:44.39qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: xburst: add WPAN support (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/b622821
10:44.41qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu Liu: add WPAN(atben,atusb) kernel module file thansk blogic #qi-hardware @freenode.net (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/2dface3
10:44.43qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: xburst qi_lb60 disable WPAN kernel options, should build as module (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/3f28756
10:44.45qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: xburst: add Ben NanoNote kernel logo (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/d87ac1f
10:44.47qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: xburst: qi_lb60 select the nanonote slash screen (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/e3e188c
10:44.49qi-bot[commit] Xiangfu: remove xburst target borken (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-xburst/fd4e7e4
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13:02.43mthwolfspraul: is it possible to do something about the crashing web frontend for git?
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13:03.11mthit makes it difficult to point new people to the sources
13:03.34viricwhy it crashes?
13:03.57mthdunno, but it ends quickly with a 500 error
13:04.01viricah
13:04.21mthit is caused by something in the archive, I think, because qi-kernel has the problem and other repositories don't
13:04.39viricaha
13:04.48mthhttp://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/qi-kernel/source/tree/master/
13:05.01viricis the git web implemented in perl?
13:06.00mthPHP, I think
13:06.45viricoh
13:09.24mthwolfspraul was thinking about replacing it
13:09.43mthbut unless that can be done soonish, it might be better to try and fix it
13:10.44AylaxReplacing it by what?
13:11.51mtha different project viewer package
13:11.59wolfspraulmth: oh, hmm
13:12.06wolfspraulI didn't know you were suffering from that
13:12.08kristianpaulcgit :-)
13:12.46kristianpaulreplace^
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13:16.49mthif I can help resolve the issue, let me know
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13:33.25wolfspraulgive me the weekend then we talk
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13:42.12mirkoxiangfu: Again: please stop putting my very private and spam-free email-address into CC when mailing to mailing lists.. I don't want to have it published in the web
13:42.23mirkouse mirko@openwrt.org instead
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19:05.04Artyomkristianpaul hi
19:08.20kristianpaulArtyom: oh hi
19:11.32ArtyomI've added a text file with the license (creative commons share a like) to KiCAD project
19:11.43kristianpaulnice !
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19:12.11kristianpaulArtyom: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/schhist/m1-gps-expansion/
19:12.38kristianpaulis WIP, for now removing uncesary stuff for the board
19:13.20Artyomdo you want to use exactly the same scheme?
19:13.20kristianpauloh you upated to ise 14.1
19:13.38kristianpaulnot at all, but make some clean up and fill the boom
19:14.15kristianpaulnot as simple as the maxim evb board, but without fpga and the other mcu
19:14.47kristianpauloh u are using verilator
19:14.51kristianpaulTNKernel?
19:15.22ArtyomWill you keep USB-bridge? (cy7c68013a)
19:15.31kristianpaulnope
19:15.58Artyomonly max2769, tcxo and that's all?
19:16.11kristianpauland power supply yes
19:17.26ArtyomI have some ideas about making dual frequency front-end (L1/L2)... What do you think about it?
19:18.09kristianpaulI agree
19:19.12kristianpaulbut i'll more focused on the getting a working solution simular to the other comercial receivers
19:19.21kristianpauland L1 is okay for now (for me)
19:19.46Artyomif you are interested I can prepare a scheme for dual band front-end...
19:19.56kristianpaulhmm
19:20.09kristianpaulusing maxin ic?
19:20.39kristianpaulnot really interested at all at the moment
19:21.33ArtyomI don't have a lot time to make everything, but if you are making a redesign... that would be a step forward...
19:21.58kristianpauli want cutoff some parts
19:22.03kristianpaulthat apply for layout as well
19:22.37kristianpaulnot too many drastical changes
19:22.51ArtyomTNKernel is open-source RTOS. Not very popular but seems better then freeRTOS for example...
19:23.19kristianpaulbut L2C is currently operational?
19:23.59kristianpaulif, then worth that step forward
19:25.17Artyomnot sure about gps but there is also glonass that is fully operational in both L1 and L2 ;)
19:25.32kristianpaulhe :)
19:28.01kristianpauldid you get Takuji board finally?
19:28.19kristianpauls/get/got
19:28.20qi-botkristianpaul meant: "did you got Takuji board finally?"
19:29.20kristianpaulso are you playing back with the cpu + fpga combo?
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19:36.12ArtyomI didn't receive Takuji's board :(
19:39.21ArtyomYeah, I decided to switch back due to some reasons. The first one is that TNKernel has ports for lpc22xx family. Secondly more correlator channels can be implemented without MM SoC in FPGA that I have to use. Thirdly I have plans to teach some people to program on embedded systems and arm is more appropriate for this task...
19:40.54kristianpaulYou could have tried to get a M1 first, more powefull :)
19:41.21ArtyomI used ISE 14.1 because I had some trouble during implementation of asym static mem bus interface and I decided that some problems could happen because of ISE. So I decided to upgrade to the latest version...
19:41.54ArtyomWhen I'll get any sponsore this will be the first thing to do ;)
19:42.12Artyom(getting M1 ;) )
19:42.47kristianpaulbut the async issue was not the problem made you chosse milkymist soc at first?
19:43.14ArtyomI used verilator for verification because icarus-verilof is toooooo sloooowwww for this task...
19:43.22kristianpaulhe indeed :)
19:45.13ArtyomYeah, I switched to MM SoC because of async memory interface. But with MM SoC I faced with the task of choosing apropriate RTOS. As I know RTEMS is used in M1. But this OS seems too complicated for my task...
19:48.28ArtyomAnd the task of rewriting some hdl-code seemed easier then the task of porting RTOS to new architecture (Especially because I didn't have any experience with RTOS beforehand)
19:50.51ArtyomAnd what about you? Have you received Takuji's board?
19:51.06kristianpaulyup
19:51.19kristianpaulfinally
19:51.36ArtyomNot long time ago?
19:51.41kristianpauli think i need make some fix on the board before try
19:51.50kristianpaulyup a month ago
19:51.58ArtyomColombia's post work better then russian one ;)
19:52.33kristianpaulyou are big country :)
19:53.08kristianpaulanyway i would choose arm, if this ran linux,so i feel like in home
19:53.24ArtyomA little frozen ;)
19:53.45Artyom(country)
19:54.10kristianpaulat 33°C :-|
19:54.49lekernelArtyom: what do you need the rtos for?
19:55.54ArtyomWell, the main reason because I wanted to check how to work with RTOS. Then Takuji uses RTOS ;)
19:57.36kristianpaulgpl-gps port is ecos :)
19:57.37ArtyomI see the following advantages: program can be split to independent tasks and they can be debuged independently. Besides it helped me to solve problem with transmition data trough uart (com-port).
19:58.09Artyomwhich I faced with MM SoC + namuru
19:58.45Artyomyeah, gpl-gps uses ecos but TNKernel seems to be much smaller and easier to understand
19:58.48kristianpaulbut wast this a problem because your spartan3 dince sinthesize well a cpu cache or something related?
19:59.09kristianpaul<PROTECTED>
19:59.26kristianpaulbut honestly at first look TNKernel dint look very friendly ;)
20:02.12ArtyomI think the main problem was that UART-core in MM SoC is rather slow. Mainly because it's use in M1 is very limited. But of coarse this problem could be overcomed by addtional C-code ;)
20:04.00ArtyomAnd also cpu without cache is very slow. Ohnestly speaking I don't know exactly what influenced more: uart-core or cpu without cache
20:06.38ArtyomAnyway I don't have anything better then fpga-board-with-s3e500 and fpga(s3e500)+mcu(lpc2478) board... So I'm very limited with this development...
20:09.55ArtyomYes, I would agree that first impression about TNKernel is that it's unfriendly. And there are just few examples on web... I chose it because I found good reviews on electronix forum from local-guru... BTW Sony uses this RTOS in one of it's products ( http://www.tnkernel.com/news.html )
20:11.35ArtyomBut I don't exclude possibility to switch to some other RTOS like freeRTOS...
20:12.31Artyomif strong reasons will appear...
20:12.52lekerneluart core is very slow? wtf?
20:12.59kristianpaul*g*
20:13.18lekernelit's not slower than any other. 115200 is the maximum rs232 bitrate.
20:14.17lekerneland yes, a cpu executing from dram or flash without cache is slow. so use sram or just enable the damn cache.
20:15.48Artyomcomparing to lpc with buffer for some (16?) bytes it seems slower. I mean that I can send several bytes to uart core and start to make other things.  And in MM SoC it will require extra C-code to implement something similar.
20:17.08lekernelif you can't write those ~100 lines of C code or just copy mine, I'm afraid you'll have difficulty writing a GPS stack
20:17.47lekernelor add the same buffer in verilog, it's really not that difficult
20:19.44kristianpaulstart to make other things, you mean multiple threads support? no just a single thread, right?
20:22.08lekernel...which is another thing that works out of the box with rtems, mm and xiangfu's build script. but of course, arm and lpcxxx are so much better.
20:23.21kristianpauli had some issues recently building rtems latelly
20:23.33kristianpaulreported on #milkymist actually :)
20:23.59kristianpaulbut indeed, Artyom rtems is not that hard to use
20:24.16kristianpauland there are plently example by checking flickernoise source code
20:25.21kristianpaulArtyom: perhaps you could get a M1 cheaper by just adquiring the board
20:25.31kristianpaullike the early development kit i got
20:25.43kristianpaulArtyom: just ask wolfspraul about that options
20:28.43Artyomlekernel: I've compared two simple things: uart-core that is used by default in MM SoC and uart core in lpc24xx. The second one seems faster because it doesn't require extra C-code (which is of course easy but requires extra time to implement or to understand anyone else code). As I have already noticed I'm limited with free resources and have to work with what I have. I don't know about...
20:28.45Artyom...RTEMS a lot. But I've read your own unpleasant comments about it's parts (I don't remember exactly but I think you described flash-card api)
20:30.50lekerneltnkernel has an unfair advantage here: I have never touched it
20:32.07lekerneland to use the uart with rtems just call printf(). how hard is that?
20:32.41ArtyomThat is why I decided to check all possible alternatives and I have chosen the one that seems apropriate for my task. But as I said I had zero experience with RTOS beforehand and my choise was made on the base of reading electronix forum.
20:33.13lekernelelectronics forums are full of crap
20:33.49Artyomagree - What would you do o my place?
20:36.01lekernelfirst choose if you want to use ARM or not
20:40.03lekernelmost people in electronics forums know only about microcontrollers - if you already have a fpga in your system, you probably don't need one
20:40.43ArtyomAmong RTOS ports most popular are for ARM. That is why I made a step backward. I thought about possibility of porting TNKernel for MM SoC later. Or may be using RTEMS...
20:41.46kristianpaulporting take time, consider that..
20:41.57lekerneland I guess you are running Windows, considering it's the most popular OS?
20:42.32ArtyomLekernel: the bad thing is that I have only fpga spartan 3e 500. Compared to s6slx45 it's tiny... I could hardly insert 4 correlator channels with MM SoC in it...
20:44.01ArtyomIf TNkernel will be apropriate for my task porting wouldn't be difficult. It's code is well split. And there are ports for different architectures (like 16bit-pic for example)
20:48.42Artyomlekernel: I prefer not to contrapose (new word for me from the dictionary ;) ) ARM and MM SoC. Both are good. The choise depends only on the task and available resources. When I'll get extra resources for MM1 then I would definitly try to use only it for GNSS.
20:51.07Artyomlekernel: Windows is fine when you combine it's use with virtualbox with Linux. The main reason are my collegues that are afraid of Linux... It's something terrible for them. And even most of the students are afraid when I say "Linux"...
20:52.12kristianpaulwe dont need more people been scared for/from any reason :-)
20:55.00ArtyomMy friend was very surprised that during traineeship in german university had to work only with PCs under Linux...
20:56.42kristianpaulthen you just said namuru and milkymist and they got hurt attack ;-)
20:57.59Artyom1 person from 100 ;)
20:58.56Artyomgentelmen, sorry that I have dissapointed you with some of my thoughts. And it's time to sleep for me. bye.
20:59.09kristianpauli'm not dissapointed
20:59.15kristianpaul..
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22:29.17viricmth: I had a hang in the sheevaeplug again...
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22:31.15viricthe relevant part is:
22:31.16viric[<c0008d94>] (__irq_svc+0x34/0x98) from [<c006a0a4>] (out_of_memory+0x12c/0x354)
22:31.19viric[<c006a0a4>] (out_of_memory+0x12c/0x354) from [<c006d2f8>] (__alloc_pages_nodemask+0x5e4/0x60c)
22:31.22viric[<c006d2f8>] (__alloc_pages_nodemask+0x5e4/0x60c) from [<c0068be4>] (filemap_fault+0x1e0/0x4b0)
22:31.25viric[<c0068be4>] (filemap_fault+0x1e0/0x4b0) from [<c007e3dc>] (__do_fault+0x68/0x4b4)
22:31.36viricit looks like out_of_memory does not success choosing a process to kill... but I don't know why
22:31.40viric(this hangs the whole system)
22:31.45viricAny idea, kernel hackers?
22:32.08GNUtooviric, hi  it's not a kernel problem
22:32.22GNUtooviric, it's just that all the RAM is used
22:32.41GNUtooah ok I didn't saw that line:
22:32.45GNUtoo<viric> it looks like out_of_memory does not success choosing a process to kill... but I don't know why
22:32.55viricthe OOMK should kill some process
22:33.00viricbut it does not.
22:33.01GNUtooyes
22:33.07GNUtoonanonote?
22:33.19viricno, sheevaplug. Without swap.
22:33.31GNUtoook
22:33.44GNUtoowhat kernel? mainline?
22:33.56viricthat was 3.2.8 iirc
22:33.59viricmainline.
22:34.05GNUtoook
22:34.09viricBut I see this bug since the 2.6 series
22:34.13GNUtoook
22:34.16GNUtoohmmm
22:34.21viric(the OOMK not playing well)
22:34.35viricI'm building 3.4 now
22:34.44GNUtooit's nice to have a mainline kernel
22:34.50GNUtoowithout the need of any patches
22:35.09viricsure
22:35.54viricI should have listed the oomk scores... I think sysrq allows that
22:38.28viricit would help me a lot a sysrq key that would dump the kernel log ring-buffer *again*
22:41.44viricOuhm.. I forced a call to oomk by sysrq, and I see I don't have any task with oom points > 0.
22:41.49viricall are zero or below zero
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22:43.19viricbut oomk can kill some...
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