| 00:01.09 | GNUtoo | DocScrutinizer05, I guess theses laptops aren't cheap |
| 00:01.29 | GNUtoo | there are 2 rugged laptops supported by coreboot btw |
| 00:01.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | aqctually quite cheap, on fleabay and refurbished |
| 00:01.47 | GNUtoo | ok |
| 00:02.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~330EUR |
| 00:02.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | for a CF-29 in top condition |
| 00:02.43 | GNUtoo | ok |
| 00:03.23 | GNUtoo | personally I'm more interested in the Getac P470 or the Roda RK886EX (Rocky III+) which are supported by coreboot, or simply a lenovo x60/t60 |
| 00:03.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | T500 typing here |
| 00:31.01 | kristianpaul | DocScrutinizer05: getting ready for next deluge? |
| 00:31.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | just preparing to finally sniper poettering |
| 00:32.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken |
| 00:34.23 | kristianpaul | :) |
| 00:34.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | fucktards |
| 00:35.34 | kristianpaul | soon you'll read, booting without paying to microsoft a tax is ilegal :) |
| 00:39.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Due to this, many upstream developers have decided to consider the problem of a separate /usr that is not mounted during early boot an outdated question, and started to close bugs regarding these issues as WONTFIX. We certainly cannot blame them, as the benefit of supporting this is questionable and brings a lot of additional work with it.<< BWAHAHAAAHAAAA does this guy really think we'll buy his lame excuse for lazyness and not |
| 00:39.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | maintaining his system properly? |
| 00:42.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | A)mount /usr *early*! B) move stuff you need before mounting /usr to /[s]bin C) don't use friggin useless stuff like PA in early boot, for the "questionable benefit" of e.g. playing a powerup jingle with the default PA shite |
| 00:43.01 | kristianpaul | GNUtoo: x60 is really cheap ! |
| 00:43.04 | kristianpaul | interesting |
| 00:43.13 | kristianpaul | anyway .. :-) |
| 00:43.27 | kristianpaul | argghh not get distracted again :) |
| 00:43.54 | GNUtoo | kristianpaul, it's a computer, and the support is close to 100% complete |
| 00:44.05 | GNUtoo | so I guess you just need to : |
| 00:44.10 | GNUtoo | 1) take information on it |
| 00:44.12 | GNUtoo | 2)buy it |
| 00:44.20 | GNUtoo | 3)install coreboot on it + a distro |
| 00:44.23 | GNUtoo | and you're done |
| 00:44.29 | GNUtoo | no need to hack on it |
| 00:44.35 | GNUtoo | I mean on coreboot |
| 00:45.04 | kristianpaul | good deal |
| 00:47.06 | GNUtoo | indeed |
| 00:47.25 | GNUtoo | if you can find one in your area it's a good deal |
| 00:47.38 | GNUtoo | else it become complicated to buy second hand stuff online etc... |
| 00:48.09 | kristianpaul | i can but x40.. |
| 00:56.00 | kristianpaul | anyway.. |
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| 01:30.22 | qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: components/: generate for connectors CONN_1 to CONN_40X2 (in gencon.lib) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/7864070 |
| 01:51.52 | qi-bot | The build has FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120609-0542 |
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| 01:59.10 | kristianpaul | wpwrak: seems your m1 patches not work well http://paste.debian.net/173758/ |
| 02:02.27 | kristianpaul | http://paste.debian.net/173760/ :-| |
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| 03:51.55 | wpwrak | they should work with rtems 5c51ba1333d96e2ada2c374ba22b551d179e6685 |
| 03:52.04 | wpwrak | maybe something has changed upstream since. that was two months ago |
| 03:59.04 | kristianpaul | 1d179e6685, thats what i need it, thanks ! |
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| 04:31.20 | kristianpaul | oh dear... http://paste.debian.net/173765/ |
| 04:45.01 | kristianpaul | trying with 07896ad5d78af2f47e79c6829e3a57718d660e44 |
| 05:07.24 | wpwrak | the rtems-yaffs i have its cbe7492ee0e5a9bced8267d9c7ab2fd997299fda |
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| 08:24.04 | whitequark | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTExMzE |
| 08:51.27 | viric | nice |
| 08:53.46 | viric | how does GPL apply to verilog ? |
| 08:53.59 | viric | All verilog synthesized to a single chip has to be GPL? |
| 08:54.35 | lindi- | viric: what does it mean that "chip is GPL"? |
| 08:54.36 | viric | And it can be connected only to other GPL chips? A LGPL verilog would allow connecting it to non-GPL chips |
| 08:54.39 | viric | :) |
| 08:55.02 | viric | lindi-: I also don't know. hehe |
| 08:55.31 | viric | ah, I meant "verilog has to be GPL" |
| 08:55.36 | viric | (synthesized to a single chip) |
| 08:56.05 | viric | LGPL allows 'linking' to non-GPL pieces, but only if the LGPL pieces can be replaceable. Hence, a chip appart :) |
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| 11:21.26 | pabs3 | didn't think copyright law applied to chips |
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| 12:11.23 | roh | hm. gpl/lgpl.. maybe even agpl... i should ask the lawyers about that. thats a real good question |
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| 12:58.59 | viric | roh: I found my OOMK hangs relate to reiserfs. Having moved to ext4 it does not hang anymore, under OOMK conditions |
| 12:59.47 | viric | roh: nevertheless, when I filled the same-size new ext4 fs with the files I had in the reiserfs, not only ext4 took far more disk... |
| 12:59.57 | viric | but I had 92% of inode usage. |
| 13:04.51 | pabs3 | finds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit_layout_design_protection |
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| 14:22.28 | kristianpaul | wpwrak: it works now thanks a lot ! |
| 14:34.51 | wpwrak | was a pleasure to help :) and sorry for the inconvenience. |
| 14:58.55 | roh | viric: inode-count is set on format. |
| 14:59.25 | qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/pads-array.fpd: we need loop for pins and for packages, not just one (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/20c9436 |
| 14:59.26 | qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: components/adxl32x.lib: Analog Devices ADXL321, ... accelerometers (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/96c7eb3 |
| 14:59.27 | qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/qfn.fpd: add experimental footprint for AD CP-16-5a* MQ_LFCSP_LQ (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/e01b8d6 |
| 14:59.40 | roh | viric: you can easily make it have more inodes. |
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| 15:02.03 | viric | yes, reformatting, I know |
| 15:02.27 | viric | I used triple inodes (now ~33% usage) on the new format |
| 15:02.32 | roh | viric: well.. you did that anyhow. usually if you do not run a ntpd on it one doesnt need extra many inodes |
| 15:02.50 | viric | But I also noticed that for the very same files, ext4 needs 1,8GB *MORE* than reiserfs (on a 7,8GB disk. That's 23% of the disk) |
| 15:03.19 | roh | you are sure you set reseved blocks the same? |
| 15:03.26 | viric | ? |
| 15:03.38 | viric | I've a tar. I unpack it to a reiserfs, or to an ext4. That's the difference in "df" free. |
| 15:03.43 | roh | and not dialed around on bytes per inode or inode-size? |
| 15:04.08 | viric | The default "mkfs.ext4" used 1,6GB more than reiserfs. |
| 15:04.25 | viric | With triple inodes (500k vs 1500k) it uses 1,8GB more than reiserfs. |
| 15:04.28 | roh | well... i do not have any clue what your distro uses ad defaults |
| 15:04.34 | viric | my distro? |
| 15:04.38 | viric | I run mkfs.ext4 /dev/blabla |
| 15:04.50 | viric | why would the distro matter? |
| 15:05.06 | roh | they all patch stuff/package different defaults |
| 15:05.14 | viric | uh? |
| 15:05.16 | viric | hm |
| 15:05.19 | viric | I'll check the recipe |
| 15:06.04 | viric | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:06.16 | viric | That's the only detail out of "./configure; make; make install" |
| 15:08.25 | roh | viric: i have a 116G filesystem here, which has 7684096 inodes. of that 30G are used (4 linux virtual machines) which is 419283 inodes. |
| 15:09.13 | roh | so inode used count is direct proportional to space used in mbytes (atleast within 1% error) |
| 15:09.59 | roh | ah. no. its 6% inodes used, to 28% diskspace used. sorry. checked the wrong table here. |
| 15:10.48 | viric | well, the number of inodes depends a lot on the number of files you have |
| 15:10.54 | viric | if you store videos, you'll have few inodes :) |
| 15:11.07 | viric | their default guess does not match my usage, it seems |
| 15:11.37 | viric | and for the disk space used... ext4 looks somehow optimised to big files. Small files take a lot, compare to reisersf (23% of the full fs) |
| 15:12.59 | roh | viric: thats why one can adjust the settings. no heuristics can guess right in advance |
| 15:14.27 | viric | do you have any suggestion of settings? |
| 15:14.38 | viric | I'd be fine with 1500k inodes... |
| 15:14.50 | viric | But I want more free space. I've no idea what to touch. |
| 15:18.20 | viric | roh: I can paste you dumpe2fs |
| 15:18.26 | viric | roh: http://sprunge.us/IRUY |
| 15:30.08 | roh | viric: how big is that fs in total? |
| 15:30.51 | roh | half a million inodes seems low |
| 15:31.18 | viric | roh: 8GB |
| 15:31.23 | viric | (7,8GB, well.) |
| 15:31.29 | roh | that seems ok. |
| 15:31.41 | roh | what stuff do you put in there that you need so many small files? |
| 15:32.03 | viric | OS files mostly |
| 15:32.57 | viric | but as far as I understand, I can't make ext4 give me more free space for my use case. |
| 15:33.01 | roh | viric: still weird. try finding out where you have 'many small files' |
| 15:33.16 | viric | I know where they are... whether they are a lot or not, I can't tell |
| 15:33.22 | viric | It's a matter of taste I imagine |
| 15:33.27 | roh | viric: as shown above i have very few files per 'OS' |
| 15:33.59 | roh | the 419283 inodes are 4 complete ubuntu server vms(12.04) |
| 15:34.27 | viric | well, it's a development machine; I have all headers, libs, ... |
| 15:34.30 | viric | not only runtime |
| 15:34.55 | roh | ah. i see. |
| 15:35.11 | roh | well.. then just tell it do use more inodes |
| 15:35.25 | viric | in any case, I'm loosing 1,8GB that using reiserfs I'd have free |
| 15:35.34 | viric | losing |
| 15:35.40 | viric | pity |
| 15:35.51 | viric | A hardcore dev would just fix reiserfs :) |
| 15:36.06 | roh | i still dont get where those 1.8g should go. i dont have that here |
| 15:36.24 | roh | well. yeah. the journal needs to be somewhere, but reiser needs that also, right? |
| 15:36.29 | viric | roh: I've two loop devices of the same size, same tar unpacked to them. I run 'df', and shazam... 1,8G difference |
| 15:36.35 | viric | yes, reiser has journal to |
| 15:36.36 | viric | too |
| 15:37.08 | viric | hum maybe I did not pass the hardlinks with tar... does tar pick hardlinks by default? |
| 15:37.37 | viric | hm maybe it's that. I'll resolve the hardlinks |
| 15:38.04 | roh | viric: reserved space? |
| 15:38.25 | viric | I should have used --hard-dereference |
| 15:38.29 | viric | Let's try. |
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| 19:02.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | viric: check for stuff hidden under mountpoints |
| 19:02.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | age old prank |
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| 19:04.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | also semantics of "used space" differs a lot, depending if you count and sum up real filelength, or you calculate space taken on storage - incl. sector overhead which is statistically 0.5 sectors/file |
| 19:04.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus inodes and whaztnot |
| 19:05.35 | viric | DocScrutinizer05: I only look at 'df' free space |
| 19:06.07 | viric | DocScrutinizer05: I mount one fs into ./r, the other into ./o; |
| 19:30.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | viric: ooh, I didn't mean mountpoint where the fs under test got mounted. Hidden files under a mountpoint count for the disk usage of the fs where the mountpoint dir is located, not for the mounted fs |
| 19:31.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | so aiui you mount a fs under ./o or ./r, and probably both have no mounts on them, so are unaffected by any hidden files |
| 19:34.25 | viric | yes |
| 19:34.34 | viric | in any case I look at 'df' |
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| 19:35.07 | viric | I think that maybe the hardlinks explain the story... one fs has hardlinks, the other not |
| 19:35.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | df probably just looks for free blocks |
| 19:35.18 | viric | but I don't know how to convey hardlinks from one side to the other. |
| 19:35.27 | viric | tar --hard-dereference clearly fails |
| 19:35.39 | viric | in fact when I used --hard-dereference, I had even less free space |
| 19:35.47 | viric | AH! |
| 19:36.02 | viric | because 'tar' by default respects hard links, and with --hard-reference I made it copy the contents... |
| 19:36.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, sounds right |
| 19:36.28 | viric | Weird. Then ext4 is really taking 23% of *additional* metadata compared to reiserfs |
| 19:36.38 | viric | 23% of the total filesystem. |
| 19:36.50 | viric | I've 1,8GB unavailable only because I use ext4 instead of reiserfs. |
| 19:36.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | hard to believe |
| 19:37.46 | viric | do you want to test yourself? I could prepare a public tar. :) |
| 19:37.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, reiserfs afaik packs files, which means there's no wasted space at and of files (this average half sector) |
| 19:38.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | for a lot of files this can sum up |
| 19:38.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/at and/at end/ |
| 19:40.28 | viric | they have that 'tail' thing, yes |
| 19:40.52 | viric | 400k files |
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| 20:26.54 | viric | Does somebody know if UML works for anything other than x86? |
| 20:27.29 | viric | (no arm and no mips, I imagine) |
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