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| 15:21.31 | *** topic/#qi-hardware is Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs |
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| 15:49.59 | paul_boddie | Some more material for whitequark's article: http://www.wired.com/opinion/2012/09/raspberry-pi-insider-exclusive-sellout-to-sell-out/ |
| 15:53.56 | whitequark | >How could we enable hacking while preventing cloning? |
| 15:53.57 | whitequark | lolwhat |
| 15:54.32 | whitequark | like if you *actually* need 7 years to make an rpi. |
| 15:54.43 | whitequark | or that absence of gerbers prevents cloning. |
| 15:56.17 | larsc | I thought you couldn't source the brcms on the rpi anyway? |
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| 16:57.35 | whitequark | larsc: maybe a chinese company wishing to clone them could |
| 16:57.47 | whitequark | they probably won't anyway, but that's another thing |
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| 17:06.53 | viric | whitequark: they were afraid of qi-hw |
| 17:07.12 | GNUtoo-desktop | who? tuxbrain? |
| 17:07.19 | GNUtoo-desktop | hi btw |
| 17:08.18 | viric | rpi people |
| 17:08.56 | GNUtoo-desktop | ok |
| 17:09.37 | GNUtoo-desktop | if rpi is the raspery py they can't be QI because of how their device is made: |
| 17:09.45 | GNUtoo-desktop | *rasberry |
| 17:09.59 | GNUtoo-desktop | They need a GPU "firmware" to boot the machine |
| 17:10.11 | GNUtoo-desktop | which is proprietary.... |
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| 17:14.32 | paul_boddie | Yes, whitequark's article sums it all up pretty comprehensively. |
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| 17:51.39 | viric | Is the nanonote opus-ready? :) |
| 17:52.14 | viric | (quite an unfortunate name, here) |
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| 18:19.33 | lekernel | haha they had problems with BGA routing |
| 18:19.44 | lekernel | I guess wired reportards are now discovering what BGA means ... |
| 18:23.55 | larsc | the article was written by one rpi founders |
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| 18:53.37 | whitequark | viric: define "afraid"? |
| 18:53.39 | whitequark | for what reason? |
| 18:53.56 | viric | qi-hw cloning rpi :) |
| 18:54.05 | viric | ee hackers |
| 18:54.19 | viric | I was just kidding |
| 18:55.58 | whitequark | ah |
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| 19:01.00 | whitequark | lekernel: is wired that bad? |
| 19:01.08 | whitequark | finds gigaom pretty competent |
| 19:24.47 | lekernel | ah, gigaom... "The solar kit charges at a rate of 4 watts per hour and can hold 16 watts in its battery" |
| 19:24.50 | lekernel | http://gigaom.com/cleantech/a-social-energy-network-turns-to-solar-chargers-shopping/ |
| 19:25.32 | lekernel | author is specialist of "renewable energy" |
| 19:25.57 | viric | hold 16 watts? |
| 19:26.05 | lekernel | that's my point :) |
| 19:26.08 | viric | :) |
| 19:31.34 | Fallenou | 21:02 < whitequark> lekernel: is wired that bad? < does it contain anything else than advertisment pages ? |
| 19:33.37 | whitequark | lekernel: LOL |
| 19:34.35 | whitequark | watts per hour |
| 19:35.16 | whitequark | reminds me of how utility companies here measure energy in kW*h, which is technically correct, but quite fucked up. |
| 19:36.24 | wpwrak | how so ? |
| 19:36.35 | whitequark | wpwrak: correct or FU? |
| 19:37.02 | whitequark | if latter, I just find it weird |
| 19:37.20 | whitequark | probably because my physics class was before I ever needed to track grid energy usage |
| 19:38.03 | viric | I'm fine with kW*h |
| 19:39.05 | whitequark | well I always need to include 3600 coefficient, that drives me mad |
| 19:39.51 | viric | for what? That translates easily to money :) |
| 19:41.23 | whitequark | because I tend to calculate everything else in SI units |
| 19:42.07 | whitequark | and if you run a 20A device for 80s, then how much kWh will it be?. |
| 19:42.10 | whitequark | *?.. |
| 19:42.30 | whitequark | well disregard that, it's just my pet peeve |
| 19:45.22 | larsc | you could calculate the amount of money you have to pay per joule once and use that ;) |
| 19:45.39 | viric | do you use m^3 for milk? |
| 19:45.52 | viric | :) |
| 19:45.53 | whitequark | if only the price of electricity was constant... |
| 19:46.32 | whitequark | viric: liters are translated to cubic meters with a 1e6 coefficient, that's way easier than dividing by 3.6. |
| 19:46.36 | viric | I agree. |
| 19:47.03 | whitequark | and have you ever seen milk sold by liter, not by package? |
| 19:50.41 | wpwrak | maybe if you ask nicely, they'll send you your bill in MWs, and charge you for 1 MWs the same as for one 1 kWh ;-) |
| 19:51.04 | wpwrak | actually, you should pay more, since it's a whole million ! |
| 19:51.45 | whitequark | MJs you mean? |
| 19:52.01 | whitequark | ah, MW*s |
| 19:52.04 | whitequark | lol |
| 19:52.16 | whitequark | I'd send that idea to putin |
| 19:52.42 | whitequark | who'll be our dicta^Wpresident for the next 18 years |
| 19:53.49 | viric | whitequark: milk sold by liter? sure |
| 19:54.24 | whitequark | viric: yeah I understand what you mean, through I'm probably somewhat young and lived mostly in urban areas |
| 19:54.38 | viric | :) |
| 19:55.02 | viric | here we have trendy milk service machines, where you insert coins, and a tap gives milk. |
| 19:55.24 | whitequark | cool |
| 19:55.52 | whitequark | I won't really trust such a machine to provide non-rotten milk here, through |
| 19:59.30 | larsc | i suppose they throw away whats left over every evening |
| 20:00.07 | viric | I'm not a milk master |
| 20:00.24 | viric | They change it every day |
| 20:00.30 | viric | but I doubt they 'throw it away' |
| 20:00.45 | viric | there are plenty of good things to do with milk. |
| 20:00.46 | whitequark | larsc: that implies you actually care about it and do some maintenance. |
| 20:01.45 | viric | http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ca&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=ca&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lletllet.com%2Fhigiene-seguretat.html |
| 20:01.56 | larsc | whitequark: that's a big problem in russia isn't it, nobody cares about anything |
| 20:02.18 | whitequark | larsc: exactly |
| 20:02.30 | viric | or care on very particular things, and nothing else. |
| 20:02.43 | viric | It's just a matter of finding what does every russian care about |
| 20:03.35 | whitequark | viric: looking at people around, I suppose it is "not giving a fuck about anything". so... |
| 20:03.44 | viric | :) |
| 20:04.04 | whitequark | well you could definitely distract people enough to strip they from the ability of not giving a fuck. you'd need a second WWII. I doubt you actually want it. |
| 20:04.26 | larsc | but why is that, is everything so fucked up, that people gave up to care? |
| 20:05.16 | viric | It could be bad feedback. People not caring on anything because other people don't care on anything. |
| 20:05.42 | whitequark | yup, positive feedback plays a great role |
| 20:06.41 | larsc | tragedy of the commons extreme |
| 20:06.49 | whitequark | larsc: kind of. gave up, yeah |
| 20:10.17 | whitequark | actually I won't really oppose some country dropping a thermonuclear bomb on moscow, even considering that I'm there |
| 20:10.24 | whitequark | because I'm absolutely sick of it |
| 20:10.26 | whitequark | everything around |
| 20:17.32 | larsc | and no chance of leaving it behind? |
| 20:21.49 | whitequark | sometimes you can't actually believe that there is a good world out there |
| 20:22.37 | wpwrak | step 1: find a country that has low immigration barriers. step 2: learn the language. step 3: make enough money for the trip and whatever you need to get started. step 4: escape into the adventure :) |
| 20:23.47 | larsc | whitequark: that's what you did? |
| 20:23.51 | larsc | wpwrak: |
| 20:24.39 | wpwrak | well, it looks a bit like that from the outside :) with less desperation, though |
| 20:24.56 | whitequark | wpwrak: 1. australia 2. done 3. in progress 4. I won't leave some people behind. I'm trapped here for at least 2 yrs, and who knows what next. |
| 20:26.20 | whitequark | desperation might be caused by the fact that I'm a bit drunk atm. might. or different causes. |
| 20:26.31 | wpwrak | ah well, people have endured worse :) |
| 20:26.56 | wpwrak | of course, 4 adds baggage |
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| 20:30.09 | wpwrak | grmbl. brain still not working well enough to write a brute-forcer for finding an algorithm that picks the k-th (sorted) value from an unsorted n-vector :-( |
| 20:32.16 | larsc | are you trying to find something that does it in less than n log n? |
| 20:33.50 | wpwrak | yup |
| 20:34.04 | larsc | i don't think that's possible |
| 20:34.15 | wpwrak | and with very little overhead. has to run a lot of times in an avr. |
| 20:35.16 | wpwrak | here's an example for n = 3, k = 2nd element (i.e., the median): http://pastebin.ca/2207660 |
| 20:37.56 | larsc | and you use n * log n compare operations |
| 20:38.10 | wpwrak | the brute-forcer idea is to try all sequences of comparisons and pick one that yields the decision tree with the lowest depth. should still be doable up to at least n = 5. |
| 20:38.40 | wpwrak | (compares) yes |
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| 20:39.21 | larsc | but? |
| 20:39.47 | wpwrak | oh, just need to wrap my hay-feverish brain around it, that's all |
| 20:43.17 | larsc | so n and k are fixed? |
| 20:43.27 | larsc | and you just want the code like above? |
| 20:52.21 | wpwrak | yes |
| 20:52.44 | wpwrak | k and n are build-time values |
| 20:53.45 | wpwrak | (well, the idea is to make it possible to generate variants with different k and n values. as opposed to manually cooking up such a function, as in my example) |
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| 22:08.15 | mth | whitequark: is your server melting yet? |
| 22:10.45 | Fallenou | a lot of moronic comments |
| 22:11.15 | Fallenou | they don't even understand why it is so chip |
| 22:11.19 | Fallenou | cheap* |
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| 22:11.29 | Fallenou | I bet they got the main chip for almost nothing |
| 22:11.39 | Fallenou | they work there god damn it |
| 22:11.53 | Fallenou | it's almost a project of the company making the chip |
| 22:12.28 | Fallenou | and so far they were right to invest on this project |
| 22:12.40 | Fallenou | so much advertisement |
| 22:12.49 | Fallenou | blog posts, tweets, facebook posts, conferences |
| 22:13.14 | Fallenou | I wonder how much it would have cost to pay such a huge advertisement campaign |
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| 22:33.43 | mth | it depends on what kind of education you're looking for: if you want to teach people application programming, R-Pi is fine, but if you want to teach them low-level programming or hardware design, it has serious problems |
| 22:34.33 | mth | and if it's just about application programming, then the board should have been sold boxed, imo |
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