| 02:28.36 | arossdotme | wheres gnutoo? |
| 07:49.27 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: speaking of successful kickstartering, that's how the pros do it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elanlee/exploding-kittens |
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| 13:56.53 | xiangfu | wpwrak: Hi |
| 13:56.55 | xiangfu | wpwrak: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Anelok#Boards |
| 13:57.16 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: Hello |
| 13:58.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | xiangfu: hi! |
| 13:59.34 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: I bought 4 N900 phones. |
| 13:59.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 13:59.50 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: I think I will receive them in 2 or three days. |
| 14:00.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | do those sellers offer more of them? |
| 14:00.16 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: Yes. |
| 14:00.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | great! :-) |
| 14:00.24 | xiangfu | someone have more then 500. |
| 14:00.36 | xiangfu | most of them have less them 100 devices. |
| 14:00.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 14:00.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | less than 100 is quite normal |
| 14:01.30 | xiangfu | (500 one): the price ~100USD. |
| 14:02.02 | xiangfu | the four devices I have bought from 40USD to 120USD. |
| 14:02.42 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: I am not sure if I can send it to you before Chinese New Year. it is like all people stop working. I will let you know when I receive them. |
| 14:03.00 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: do you need me do anything on the device before I send it out? |
| 14:03.09 | xiangfu | I can disaccemble them. :) |
| 14:03.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | please don't worry abut sending them to me quickly, rather evaluate if they are decent quality :-) |
| 14:03.44 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: ok |
| 14:03.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | the price is "normal" |
| 14:04.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | and expected |
| 14:04.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | (~100USD) |
| 14:04.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | we can handle that |
| 14:04.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 14:04.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | great news indeed. Many many thanks! |
| 14:05.17 | xiangfu | nope. |
| 14:05.30 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: just FYI: we own a small factory with a SMT line and some people there. |
| 14:05.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | good to know |
| 14:07.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe we could for example have those 500 disassembled by you before shipping them to us. would make sense since here we have no resources to do that job, unless I dedicate 4 weeks to it ;-) |
| 14:07.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | of my time |
| 14:08.07 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: Yes. that is what I though. we can disassembled them. |
| 14:08.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | QA and disassemble |
| 14:08.21 | xiangfu | I will try that first in two days. |
| 14:08.28 | xiangfu | :) |
| 14:08.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll link you to the service manual |
| 14:08.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | just for convenience |
| 14:09.54 | xiangfu | thanks |
| 14:11.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56986 |
| 14:11.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | L1_2 link works |
| 14:11.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | L3_4 is a comprehensive technical ,amual about repair and all |
| 14:11.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | manual |
| 14:12.02 | xiangfu | downloading |
| 14:12.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | irrelevant for you |
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| 14:21.27 | xiangfu | we don't need to disassemble them like the "EXPLODED VIEW". right? |
| 14:22.43 | xiangfu | do you need this: MEMORY_CARD_PCB, CAMERA_MOD_5MP, QWERTY DOME SHEET? |
| 14:46.46 | wpwrak | xiangfu: (wiki page) nice ! |
| 14:48.19 | wpwrak | the "combines binary" is something a bit exotic, though. not what people would normally use. the regular path is boot loader with swd and then, ever after loading the application with dfu |
| 14:53.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | xiangfu: we might need the domesheets, though that's terrible mess to scavenge and re-use |
| 14:53.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | we prolly don't need the 5MP cam module, we are using a different variant |
| 14:54.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | memory-card-pcb is a immanent part of main PCB |
| 14:54.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | connected to main PCB by a embedded inner layer of flex PCB |
| 14:55.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/platine_01.jpeg |
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| 15:59.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | xianfu: (hope you read chanlog) we don't need complete display half disassembled, actually we'd prefer to have it "pre-"assembled to simply connect it to the main PCB |
| 16:03.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | xianfu: actually in Nokia_N900_RX-51_Service_Manual_L1L2_v1_0.pdf please stop disassembling with photo #15, #16 |
| 16:05.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need QA on the complete display half: scratch free, display OK (no dead pixels), front camera and indicator RGB LED and IR proximity sensor working, earpiece working |
| 16:05.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | test shall be done against a known-good main PCB |
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| 18:39.22 | whitequark | got a tig welder |
| 18:39.30 | whitequark | soon, custom vacuum gear |
| 18:40.05 | kyak | a what? |
| 18:40.32 | whitequark | welder that uses a tungsten electrode in inert gas (argon) |
| 18:40.39 | whitequark | you need that for stainless |
| 18:40.49 | whitequark | and most vacuum stuff is made from 316L |
| 18:42.00 | kyak | oh damn.. i only wonder how you get all this stuff with the current rate exchange :) |
| 18:42.14 | whitequark | I'm paid in USD :p |
| 18:42.29 | kyak | very clever :) |
| 18:43.03 | whitequark | the welder cost 7000 RUB (some discount). mask, 2000 RUB. 9th torch, 3000 RUB |
| 18:43.59 | whitequark | the biggest issue was finding 316L filler rods in qty of less than 5kg. 5kg of those cost like a whole new welder |
| 18:44.22 | whitequark | argon is insanely cheap. 300 RUB ($5 for everyone else) for a 10L cylinder |
| 18:44.38 | whitequark | I'm told it costs at least an order of magnitude more overseas |
| 18:44.58 | kyak | had to google some of the stuff.. you couldn't get 316L is russia? |
| 18:45.22 | whitequark | I could easily get them in 5kg boxes |
| 18:45.34 | whitequark | it took two days to find a local place that sells you them one by one |
| 18:45.53 | whitequark | same for TIG torch accessories, really, but the rods are really fucking expensive |
| 18:46.39 | whitequark | now the last part I need is some source material, which proves most problematic of it all |
| 18:46.48 | whitequark | no one wants to sell someone a 20x20cm square of 316 |
| 18:47.09 | kyak | i guess it could rise suspicion :) |
| 18:47.18 | whitequark | huh? why? |
| 18:47.38 | whitequark | it's just more economical, and I guess more lazy, to sell huge 2x3m sheets |
| 18:48.55 | kyak | ehm, why not? i, the person "from outside", don't see a single reason why you would want a 20x20 piece of metal |
| 18:49.22 | kyak | my next question was - what were you going to do :) |
| 18:49.32 | whitequark | and why would that be of any concern to you? |
| 18:49.50 | kyak | nah, not to me.. |
| 18:49.54 | whitequark | behold, the most toxic of all USSR mentality, in the chat right next to you |
| 18:50.28 | whitequark | if a person does something you could not think of, they must be doing something /weird/! they must be crushed before they actually have a chance at success! |
| 18:53.01 | kyak | that's quite right |
| 18:53.01 | whitequark | it's actually quite telling that the people actually selling me shit have /never/ asked what i want it for. they either sell or decide it's not worth it for them |
| 18:53.08 | whitequark | it's always the 'policymakers' who get these ideas |
| 18:53.23 | whitequark | can't make anything, make a policy, i guess |
| 18:53.59 | kyak | let's put it aside, what are you doing right now? |
| 18:54.12 | whitequark | a chamber for magnetron sputtering |
| 18:54.29 | whitequark | (not the microwave kind) |
| 18:56.18 | kyak | ok, after a bit of google translate i (maybe) get it. What's it for? |
| 18:56.57 | whitequark | I actually have no idea how it's called in russian |
| 18:57.06 | whitequark | wonder what did you even get from GT |
| 18:57.38 | kyak | reading https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BF%D1%8B%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5 |
| 18:57.58 | whitequark | that's quite right |
| 18:59.05 | whitequark | it's mainly to do something simple to get a hang of vacuum tech, before I move on to more complex topics |
| 18:59.13 | whitequark | but this can be useful on its own merit |
| 18:59.15 | whitequark | DIY LCDs! |
| 18:59.50 | kyak | wow, that's insane |
| 19:00.08 | whitequark | I don't actually know how to make the glass-lcd-glass sandwich |
| 19:00.18 | whitequark | not a glass sealed one like they make in the indsutry at least |
| 19:00.23 | whitequark | but electrodes would be doable. |
| 19:00.29 | kyak | just reading this article alone, i can't get impression how this could be doable by a single person |
| 19:00.38 | whitequark | oh, it's fairly trivial |
| 19:00.57 | whitequark | I already have a prototype, it just kinda desolders itself when I run it for more than five minutes |
| 19:01.26 | kyak | -)) |
| 19:01.44 | whitequark | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Sic1DRXJI has an incredibly crude and dangerous variant |
| 19:01.51 | whitequark | also no argon, so the films are all oxidized to hell |
| 19:02.03 | whitequark | but that one can be built using a dumpster and determination |
| 19:02.26 | whitequark | I have a proper MOSFET-based power supply and feedback for process control |
| 19:02.35 | whitequark | and a nicer chamber, soon |
| 19:02.58 | kyak | ok ,so what's your end mission anyway? |
| 19:03.08 | whitequark | short term, I want to make a GC-MS |
| 19:03.23 | whitequark | it requires some impressive chamber making skills, and somewhat less impressive HV RF power supply skills |
| 19:03.38 | whitequark | specifically a QMA-based MS |
| 19:04.42 | whitequark | I've had a productive conversation with a guy who makes those for a decade or two, I have a good idea of what electronics will I need |
| 19:04.57 | whitequark | chamber, not as much so, but should be doable |
| 19:06.53 | whitequark | long term, CMOS ICs. it'll actually require sputtering (those metal gates!), and RIE, and CVD (both of which use really similar equipment to a sputterer), and a QMA (without the GC part), and a bunch more things |
| 19:07.02 | kyak | oh, man, too much for me to google.. so you want to make device to analyze what is contained in a given sample of matter? |
| 19:07.07 | whitequark | yeah |
| 19:07.17 | kyak | veryfancy! |
| 19:07.28 | whitequark | it's not a star trek tricorder |
| 19:07.39 | whitequark | because it requires fairly complex and extensive calibration |
| 19:07.48 | whitequark | but it's a very useful device |
| 19:08.06 | kyak | is it for your own entertainment or is it your work project? |
| 19:08.11 | whitequark | entertainment |
| 19:08.48 | kyak | does it matter what to analyze (gas, liquid, etc? ) |
| 19:09.09 | whitequark | well, the mass spectrometer works with ions |
| 19:09.16 | whitequark | ionization is actually a topic unto itself |
| 19:09.17 | wpwrak | kyak: i guess at work he builds wormhole generators ... |
| 19:09.34 | whitequark | you could ionize gases, or vaporized liquids |
| 19:09.46 | whitequark | or you could smash ions into a surface, and sputter some ions |
| 19:09.55 | whitequark | called secondary ion mass spectrometry |
| 19:10.01 | kyak | whitequark: so you need to take action on that matter? like, ionieze it? |
| 19:10.12 | whitequark | v. useful for analyzing the "slices" of surfaces |
| 19:10.24 | whitequark | like the exact composition of an oxide film on steel, shit like that |
| 19:10.25 | whitequark | yeah |
| 19:10.37 | whitequark | in a GC-MS you get a gas inside the spectrometer |
| 19:10.50 | whitequark | usually you vaporize a liquid. the GC column is held at 100-200°C |
| 19:10.57 | kyak | wpwrak: whatever he builds, i only hope it works for good of mankind: )) |
| 19:11.06 | whitequark | wpwrak: lolnope. smartphone apps |
| 19:11.13 | whitequark | and until recently, websites on ruby on rails |
| 19:11.25 | kyak | like that --^ :) |
| 19:12.58 | kyak | whitequark: ok, cosindering i only understand 10% of what you say, it's still very interesting. how the hell is this entertaining? |
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| 19:13.26 | wpwrak | i guess the real objective is to have a talk for the next EHSM. the sort of talk that will discourage all further submissions :) |
| 19:13.40 | whitequark | converse question, how the hell is any of shit people usually find entertaining is not boring as hell |
| 19:13.53 | kyak | i mean, entertaining is good, but doing real profit in production/ whatever? |
| 19:13.59 | whitequark | well |
| 19:14.22 | whitequark | these skills are quite rare, much more so than your typical webdev shit |
| 19:14.31 | whitequark | and they are valued well if you know the right people |
| 19:14.34 | whitequark | but this is not why i work on it |
| 19:14.48 | whitequark | wpwrak: actually inspired by EHSM here |
| 19:14.52 | whitequark | met the MS guy at EHSM |
| 19:15.29 | kyak | i'm telling you, this shit is valued, "even" in russia :) |
| 19:16.16 | whitequark | people doing this stuff in russia are stuck a few decades ago |
| 19:16.54 | whitequark | hell, the MS guy (from Poland, which is ex-USSR) was surprised when I showed him that you can /simulate circuits on a computer/ |
| 19:17.04 | whitequark | quote: "wow, you can do that?!" |
| 19:17.27 | kyak | still the wikipedia article mentiones some "soviet time" publictions |
| 19:17.32 | whitequark | well, warsaw pact |
| 19:17.39 | whitequark | yes, there was quite some impressive work done |
| 19:17.57 | whitequark | but i mean. these people still consider a turbomolecular pump 'too complex' and 'new' and 'expensive' |
| 19:18.11 | whitequark | and sit on their crappy oil diffusion pumps |
| 19:18.21 | whitequark | which are just... i don't know why would anyone ever want to use that |
| 19:19.30 | kyak | yep, i don't know what you are talking about, but i understand what you mean |
| 19:19.55 | kyak | still, i'm seeing sometimes (by the duties of me job) people and organizations who are doing very crazy things |
| 19:20.05 | whitequark | I don't doubt that, I have seen it |
| 19:20.14 | whitequark | but also things that are heroic only if you pretend it's still 1970 |
| 19:20.45 | kyak | that, too |
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| 19:22.00 | whitequark | have you /seen/ the welding equipment that /still sells/? |
| 19:22.18 | whitequark | they use a 200-kg rectifier and a 100-kg rheostat to control current |
| 19:22.39 | whitequark | to do the job that a 10kg IGBT-based inverter does much better |
| 19:22.44 | whitequark | they /still manufacture those anew/ |
| 19:22.48 | kyak | whitequark: i'm wondering, why don't you find a job that satisfies you both mentally and financually? I mean, some doing some ruby shit for money and crazy state-of-the-art the entertainment? |
| 19:23.12 | kyak | just doesn't make sense... |
| 19:23.39 | whitequark | because i have attention span of a fruit fly and i don't want my financials to be dependent on whether i get bored with the cool thing i came up with yesterday |
| 19:24.06 | whitequark | and ruby shit is already boring to the extreme, it can't get any worse by design |
| 19:24.29 | whitequark | that's half the reason. |
| 19:24.40 | whitequark | the second half is that current state of the art requires years of investment just to get up-to-date |
| 19:24.49 | whitequark | and it pigeonholes you into a specific position in specific industry |
| 19:24.56 | whitequark | whereas as it is, i'm free to go as wide as it pleases me |
| 19:25.04 | whitequark | it'll be /nowhere/ near state of the art |
| 19:25.06 | whitequark | ever |
| 19:25.13 | whitequark | because state of the art means hundreds of people |
| 19:26.12 | kyak | so it's you personal freedom that's more important? |
| 19:26.55 | whitequark | i suppose? if it's going to be for fun |
| 19:27.47 | whitequark | also, ruby pays well. my last job (pre-crisis) was 90kRUB net |
| 19:27.59 | whitequark | in a place that does cutting edge research in RU they'll give you twenty if you're lucky |
| 19:28.31 | whitequark | that's a choice between rent and food :] |
| 19:30.12 | kyak | and getting to your question.. i don't know of those companies. But i know of companies who build atomic stations abroad, and that's pretty state-of-the-art - and also companies who are into military and space, and there are pretty fascinating things going on |
| 19:30.46 | whitequark | (atomic stations) lol |
| 19:30.56 | whitequark | state-of-the-art nuclear plants are /literally/ based on 1970s design |
| 19:30.59 | whitequark | because of regulatory inanity |
| 19:31.19 | whitequark | and space, really, too, compare what SpaceX does with what NASA did |
| 19:32.55 | kyak | you are not even close to knowing what's going on in those high regulated industries (like medicine, aerospace, and nuclear) - but let me assure you, we are very solid there :) |
| 19:33.28 | kyak | 1970s design doesn't equal to bad |
| 19:33.28 | whitequark | i certainly hope so |
| 19:33.38 | kyak | also, it's not true |
| 19:33.50 | kyak | i mean, its not 70's design |
| 19:34.12 | whitequark | so, where's our LFTR reactors? :] |
| 19:34.31 | kyak | let me google it for me :) |
| 19:35.12 | kyak | ah, i don't know.. i'll try to ask when i have a chance |
| 19:35.52 | whitequark | as far as I'm aware, the problem is that regulatory requirements are evolved to pigeonhole old reactor designs |
| 19:36.11 | whitequark | which are good at producing weapons-grade plutonium and not good at not producing shit that takes billions of years to degrade |
| 19:37.05 | whitequark | there are real problems with LFTR, which could be solved with more research, who almost no one does, because even a better LFTR reactor isn't going to be approved for operation |
| 19:37.55 | kyak | there is IEC61508 (which has according GOST) and also IEC 61513 which is followed here in RUssia.. and these regulations are definitely not from 70s |
| 19:39.03 | whitequark | they still favor the same old designs |
| 19:39.37 | whitequark | I don't know what happens in space, but I know that SpaceX lands their boosters and NASA or Energiya throw them in the dumpster |
| 19:40.07 | whitequark | and I really, really doubt that SpaceX made any fundamental breakthrough |
| 19:40.19 | kyak | ah! actually, not at all. Those standards are pretty generic and they support many design workflows. Including modern, such as model-based design |
| 19:40.58 | whitequark | I don't know further details from this point but this is a fairly common complaint by engineers from industry, so you'd have to find someone more educated than me |
| 19:41.54 | kyak | that's a fair complaint |
| 19:43.12 | kyak | if viric happens to visit us sometime, i'll be eager to tell you more :) |
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| 20:06.16 | viric | hi |
| 20:06.25 | viric | damn it, publicbt does not tell their own url in their website |
| 20:06.26 | viric | http://publicbt.com/ |
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| 20:49.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | whitequark: you're incredible :-D |
| 20:50.16 | viric | Do you know how to embed a DTB into a kernel? |
| 20:50.24 | viric | isn't there a kernel config option for that? Does it really have to be done manually? |
| 20:50.48 | viric | a device tree blob, or whatever it's called |
| 21:50.40 | whitequark | DocScrutinizer05: I'm really bored, mostly |
| 22:01.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | either I answet "that's self evident" or I answer "can't believe that, seeing what you do all the time" |
| 22:03.46 | mth | viric: pcercuei added DT support in our kernel in these two commits: https://github.com/gcwnow/linux/commit/b1384b76 and https://github.com/gcwnow/linux/commit/a9a9a68d |
| 22:04.24 | mth | it seems that you add the DTB file as a dependency in one of the Makefiles and the kernel build will generate it for you then from the DTS file |
| 22:05.00 | viric | graet! |
| 22:05.17 | viric | that is, great! |
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| 23:58.32 | viric | mth: what Makefile? |
