| 00:00.04 | solus | its bad enough i have to use oracle |
| 00:00.33 | solus | i'm allergic to these super expensive super heavy super environments with super frameworks |
| 00:00.35 | solus | makes me sick |
| 00:01.10 | pfn | heh, I use websphere 6 and db2... well... there you go.... |
| 00:01.23 | NorthDragon | spring is framework...... it don't influence on IDE |
| 00:01.44 | solus | i'm not allergic to spring |
| 00:01.55 | pfn | northdragon I never said that--I just said that once I figured out spring, I'm less inclined to write ejbs |
| 00:02.30 | pfn | spring is great |
| 00:02.47 | solus | everybody likes spring |
| 00:03.02 | solus | i dont know what it does, but I feel like i have to learn it |
| 00:03.11 | solus | i've never heard anyone say anything bad about spring |
| 00:03.16 | NorthDragon | does spring support clustering(sorry for my english grammatic :)) |
| 00:03.50 | solus | NorthDragon: if you hadn't excused yourself, the grammar had been perfect =) |
| 00:04.06 | pfn | spring has nothing to do with clustering |
| 00:04.18 | pfn | solus spring just makes it incredibly easy to configure POJOs |
| 00:04.46 | pfn | and of course, bringing with it transaction management, db abstraction (through your preferred flavor of orm), jndi abstraction, etc. |
| 00:05.05 | pfn | of course, it also has its own web mvc framework... but I always go with writing my own, heh |
| 00:05.49 | solus | nobody seems to use that |
| 00:06.00 | solus | i'm thinking about looking into tapestry |
| 00:06.17 | NorthDragon | do you use spring as alternative of ejb? |
| 00:06.20 | pfn | I'm not a fan of most web-specific frameworks |
| 00:06.27 | pfn | northdragon I use it in complement with ejb |
| 00:06.33 | pfn | since I have a need for remoting and j2ee security |
| 00:06.56 | pfn | although, for my home app, I have no ejb, just daos, and web mvc |
| 00:07.15 | pfn | http://www.hanhuy.com, rewriting my blog/album app, heh |
| 00:09.28 | NorthDragon | i want study tomcat source code...... Where i have start? |
| 00:09.40 | pfn | downloading it? :p |
| 00:09.48 | NorthDragon | :) already do |
| 00:10.06 | pfn | well, you're already there, so start reading :p |
| 00:10.27 | NorthDragon | ok..... where is old good public static void main :) |
| 00:10.39 | NorthDragon | or something like that :) |
| 00:11.14 | NorthDragon | where i can read about it? |
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| 02:41.05 | map7 | Is anyone here interested in talking about design patterns? puff are you there? |
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| 03:03.55 | jasonb | I wish I had time, but I'm headed home. |
| 03:04.06 | jasonb | But, I'm on here often. |
| 03:05.59 | map7 | cool, do u normally leave at this time? |
| 03:07.04 | jasonb | Mostly.. or even like 20 mins earlier. :) |
| 03:07.30 | map7 | ok cool, might catch ya tomorrow then |
| 03:07.40 | jasonb | Okay. |
| 03:07.51 | jasonb | I should be on in about another 2.5 hours as well. |
| 03:08.14 | map7 | i'll be leaving then |
| 03:08.26 | jasonb | See ya tomorrow.. |
| 03:11.43 | puff | Evening. |
| 03:14.09 | map7 | G'day puff, I've read the first 3 chapters of Patterns of Enterprise application architecture as you suggested |
| 03:14.25 | map7 | and I've learnt a lot about design patterns |
| 03:15.17 | map7 | If you remember I'm designing a large Accounting system and require a proper design method to go by. |
| 03:16.29 | map7 | After all the reading I've decided to go with Domain logic with a Data Mapper to connect to my database as the structure of the project will be large and will expand over time with greater functionality |
| 03:17.23 | map7 | Is this good basic design pattern to choose for my project puff? |
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| 03:44.38 | craig | hello? |
| 03:45.18 | craig | oh |
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| 03:47.32 | craig | ... |
| 03:47.44 | craig | anyone home? |
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| 03:58.40 | prolificgnosis | hey where can I get the files for the JSTL? |
| 03:58.50 | prolificgnosis | so I can install it |
| 04:02.20 | lyken | from the sun website. |
| 04:02.43 | prolificgnosis | i can't find it |
| 04:02.49 | prolificgnosis | i'm on the page but all I see is the docs |
| 04:02.59 | lyken | lemme have a looks |
| 04:04.15 | prolificgnosis | http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=52 |
| 04:04.39 | prolificgnosis | wait i don't even think thats the right one |
| 04:05.31 | prolificgnosis | i dunno |
| 04:05.39 | prolificgnosis | do you know which one it is? |
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| 04:08.11 | lyken | im hunting through my stuff to find the link |
| 04:08.13 | lyken | i cant find it, heh |
| 04:09.23 | vinse | it's included in the j2ee 1.4 |
| 04:09.34 | vinse | or can be downloaded independently from apache |
| 04:09.41 | vinse | i dont think they're the same implementation |
| 04:09.44 | vinse | but same api |
| 04:09.54 | vinse | apache was the ri i think, but now sun has their own |
| 04:09.59 | vinse | maybe, something like that anyway |
| 04:11.31 | vinse | http://jakarta.apache.org/site/downloads/downloads_taglibs-standard.cgi |
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| 05:45.03 | Netslayer | I want to do a jsp forward but I need all post data forwarded as well, is this possible? |
| 05:49.06 | jasonb | Hmm, I think that is possible, but I'm not sure. Try it and see. |
| 05:50.03 | Netslayer | well i don't have any ideas for tying it heh.. except appending all that in the forwarding url.. but i'd prefer not too |
| 05:50.20 | Netslayer | actually what's stopping me from including the other jsp hrm |
| 05:51.29 | Netslayer | post data would naturally be available to the page included right? |
| 05:53.21 | jasonb | You *could* do an include. |
| 05:53.33 | Netslayer | wouldn't two pages imports conflict? |
| 05:53.59 | jasonb | I'm not sure what you mean, but it sounds as if there wouldn't be a conflict. |
| 05:54.18 | Netslayer | i call page B by itself and I also want to include it in page A |
| 05:54.26 | Netslayer | both pages A and B have page imports at the top of them |
| 05:54.59 | jasonb | You could try to conditionally import the header.. *shrug* |
| 05:55.29 | Netslayer | i don't see how you could do that |
| 05:56.35 | jasonb | In page B, set a particular value in page scope and then include page A. When page A loads, check for the variable. If it isn't set, then include the header. |
| 05:56.54 | Netslayer | i understand that, just not the JSP syntax |
| 05:56.59 | jasonb | heh |
| 05:57.27 | jasonb | Well, you'd use something like the JSTL <c:if> tag. |
| 05:57.29 | Netslayer | if (...) { @page import="..." } |
| 05:57.41 | jasonb | Or, if your webapp is a JSP 2.0 webapp you can just use EL. |
| 05:57.49 | jasonb | (I think) |
| 05:57.52 | Netslayer | EL? |
| 05:58.04 | jasonb | Expression Language. |
| 05:58.16 | jasonb | It makes JSP syntax into a more powerful scripting language. |
| 05:58.47 | jasonb | You might want to see the EL example JSPs that come in the Tomcat example webapp. |
| 06:00.59 | Netslayer | I have a page A with forms. If on submit it loads Page B, is there a way of retrieving the name of page A somehow (built in)? |
| 06:05.17 | jasonb | On the second request? |
| 06:06.17 | Netslayer | Page name index.jsp has a form action="blah.jsp"> I hit submit -> blah.jsp is called. How can i tell index.jsp called me without embedding hidden parameters..is there a built in way? |
| 06:12.16 | jasonb | Since those are two separate requests, all blah.jsp gets is the method (GET|POST), and the parameter name/value pairs. That second request is unconnected from the first, except for the possibility that it's from the same Servlet session. |
| 06:12.54 | jasonb | You could store data in the servlet session, but it is very tough to store information that would convey with 100% certainty that the last request was of index.jsp. |
| 06:13.13 | Netslayer | i'll just add another hidden input field and post it back heh |
| 06:15.20 | jasonb | heh |
| 06:15.59 | jasonb | <input type="hidden" name="monkey" value="flies at midnight"/> |
| 06:16.04 | Netslayer | yup |
| 06:16.21 | Netslayer | ugg there's no way in sql todo a INSERT OR UPDATE is there |
| 06:16.49 | jasonb | Hmm.. Nope! :) |
| 06:17.25 | Netslayer | prob easier to call a delete first heh.. that'll work |
| 06:18.06 | jasonb | try { /* UPDATE */ } catch (SQLException e) { /* INSERT */ } |
| 06:18.33 | Netslayer | other way around but ya good idea |
| 06:18.34 | jasonb | err, actually, that won't work. |
| 06:18.49 | jasonb | Well, maybe sorta. |
| 06:19.08 | Netslayer | it's easier for me to call delete though then update shit |
| 06:19.23 | Netslayer | although delting is over kill hrm |
| 06:19.24 | jasonb | delete, then insert. |
| 06:19.55 | Netslayer | nm can't delete it'll ballon ids in the db with simple back/next action heh |
| 06:20.20 | jasonb | The db won't mind. :) |
| 06:20.31 | Netslayer | my project manager might |
| 06:20.46 | jasonb | Raise his max ID limit. |
| 06:21.56 | Netslayer | i'm going to lookup the primary key with a select first, if found update else insert |
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| 06:24.58 | draven | using an html form i need to set the user entered value into a jsp variable |
| 06:25.47 | jasonb | Netslayer: That's really the way it's meant to be. But, you're right, it would be way nicer if there was an INSERT OR UPDATE kind of feature. |
| 06:26.16 | Netslayer | i probably should know more sql.. i coded 100k lines of it last year alone :-P |
| 06:26.51 | jasonb | Netslayer: How many of those lines were "{" and "}" ? :) |
| 06:27.09 | Netslayer | straight SQL |
| 06:27.32 | Netslayer | then i left that job cause my internship ended, feel sorry for the sap that has to maintain it now |
| 06:27.41 | jasonb | haha |
| 06:27.52 | Netslayer | actually i quit for a better job..it never ended hah |
| 06:28.18 | jasonb | Congrats on getting a better job. |
| 06:28.24 | Netslayer | thx |
| 06:28.32 | jasonb | I got a better one recently, and now I have far less free time. |
| 06:29.21 | Netslayer | actually i don't mind it, love the job so far and i'm really just voluntarily doing more work |
| 06:29.47 | jasonb | You should code an OSS project on your own time instead. |
| 06:30.10 | Netslayer | netslayer.org - vortex framework .. not much 5-8k lines but it's a start |
| 06:30.34 | Netslayer | i have a few other proprietary projects of my own that should blossom soon |
| 06:32.49 | Netslayer | does ResultSet.getFetchSize() return me how many rows are in the returned result set? |
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| 14:52.46 | xyos | Hello all |
| 14:53.29 | xyos | jasonb: I have a question for you if you're at the keyboard |
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| 16:13.33 | totaler_hirntot | one question if i boot my pc , my tomcat also starts and the first time i want to undeploy sth he deletes the contextpath but not the real files , and i can't deploy the new version as long as i don't delete maunally the old files and .war file... is that normal? |
| 16:14.49 | totaler_hirntot | could somebody understand what i want to describe? :) |
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| 16:59.26 | Mattek | hello, i want to know if tomcat 5.0.x and tomcat 5.1.x are linked to two different version of J2EE standard |
| 16:59.55 | linuxfreck | there is no tomcat 5.1.y |
| 17:00.19 | linuxfreck | but tomcat 5.0 and 5.5 both use servlets 1.4 and jsp 2.0, which are part of j2ee 1.4 |
| 17:00.46 | Mattek | oh man sorry |
| 17:00.59 | Mattek | i really did a mistake i meant 5.5.x not 5.1.x |
| 17:01.08 | linuxfreck | no probs |
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| 17:02.43 | Mattek | well, so J2EE don't describe how configuration files into my web application root have to be done? |
| 17:03.16 | linuxfreck | what do you mean? |
| 17:03.30 | linuxfreck | WEB-INF/web.xml is part of the specs |
| 17:03.54 | Mattek | well i am tring to port a war web-app from tomcat to resin |
| 17:04.22 | linuxfreck | I never used that one |
| 17:05.14 | Mattek | k, i should try a bit more |
| 17:06.13 | Mattek | i was just worried couse the standard should let you just copy the war file and run the app but seem this is not so straight |
| 17:06.42 | linuxfreck | the standard doesn't say much about deployment |
| 17:09.00 | Mattek | and the META-INF/content.xml is explained in J2EE? |
| 17:10.06 | linuxfreck | no, that is tomcat-specific |
| 17:12.11 | Mattek | oh, interesting, then that should be the difference |
| 17:12.39 | pfn | the standard does say that wars should be portable between containers |
| 17:12.54 | pfn | but that doesn't mean there are deployment specifics for each container that are separate from the spec |
| 17:13.00 | pfn | s/are/aren't |
| 17:16.28 | Mattek | mmh and those deployment specific exist? |
| 17:16.35 | Mattek | *specifics |
| 17:17.31 | pfn | yes, e.g. context.xml for tomcat |
| 17:17.40 | pfn | or ibm-web-bnd.xmi for websphere, or whatever for weblogic, resin, etc. |
| 17:19.04 | Mattek | mmh resin use resin-web.xml under WEB-INF dir |
| 17:21.28 | Mattek | olso it has a different schema for defining a database resource, has a <database> tag instead of the <recource-ref> tag |
| 17:21.31 | Mattek | *also |
| 17:22.02 | Mattek | but that should be J2EE specification, isn't it? |
| 17:22.15 | Mattek | (since its in WEB-INF/web.xml) |
| 17:22.23 | linuxfreck | resource-ref in web.xml is stated in the spec. |
| 17:24.09 | Mattek | well maybe resin is not so J2EE compliant, or just add something...and that make all this much hard... |
| 17:27.48 | pfn | mattek you're being confusing |
| 17:27.55 | pfn | if it's web.xml, then it must be <resource-ref> |
| 17:28.03 | pfn | there's no direct <database> tag in web.xml |
| 17:28.24 | linuxfreck | if they implement the spec correctly that is. |
| 17:28.52 | pfn | I don't think resin would go out of their way to make their developers completely interoperable with other containers |
| 17:29.27 | pfn | that's just stupidity, when there are well-defined methods of having external deployment descriptors from the war itself |
| 17:30.03 | pfn | oh yeah, so, since someone's awake, have any idea why <Manager maxInactiveInterval="604800"/> in my <Context> does not change my session timeout any? it still times out after ~20 mins or so |
| 17:30.11 | pfn | whatever the default is |
| 17:30.59 | linuxfreck | isn't there a web.xml setting for session timeout? |
| 17:31.18 | pfn | hmm, indeed, there is as well, I wonder if I set it there, although, I would doubt it |
| 17:31.53 | pfn | http://svntrac.gofti.com/repo/browser/hanhuy/war/web.xml |
| 17:36.59 | linuxfreck | If the attribute is not provided, a default of 60 seconds is used. <- sounds a bit small |
| 17:37.14 | linuxfreck | I'm not sure whether they use that at all |
| 17:37.21 | pfn | indeed |
| 17:41.27 | pfn | ok, 1800 seconds by default, it seems... |
| 17:48.01 | pfn | it'd be nice if the PersistentManager could use a jndi datasource, instead of configuring a connection for it |
| 17:49.26 | linuxfreck | I'm not sure whether using the jdbc PersistentManager is any good at all |
| 17:51.03 | pfn | I assume if I set session-timeout to some long period on a public site, memory can get consumed pretty rapidly if it has a lot of visitors (of course, not an issue for me...) |
| 17:51.41 | pfn | since I doubt I get many hits, but anyway, for best practices, it seems it would be nice to be able to persist sessions to disk to save ram |
| 17:55.48 | pfn | hmm, using session-config session-timeout 1440 didn't make a dent in the maxInactiveInterval, still sits at 1800 seconds |
| 17:59.49 | pfn | if you want to run jsp you need a servlet container |
| 18:00.42 | pfn | jakarta is the parent project name |
| 18:00.51 | pfn | it's the capital of indonesia or java or whatever |
| 18:00.56 | pfn | and it rules over everyone with an iron fist :p |
| 18:03.48 | linuxfreck | what are you talking about? :) |
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| 18:10.57 | *** topic/#tomcat is http://tomcat.apache.org Latest stable versions of Tomcat are 5.5.12, 4.1.31, and 3.3.2 If you are a newbie, use the official distribution on Jakarta's site. Be sure to check the log files before you attempt to search for a solution. SLOW-MOTION CHANNEL (we all have jobs): Ask your question, then wait; check back often to see if anybody answered. |
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| 18:14.43 | awt | Anybody know where I can find a download that contains javax.portlet.*? |
| 18:14.53 | pfn | google |
| 18:15.11 | awt | or the Java Portlet API? |
| 18:15.22 | pfn | linuxfreck mis-tab |
| 18:16.04 | linuxfreck | awt: probably at http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=168 |
| 18:16.39 | awt | linuxfreck: I saw that but it looked a little fishy. |
| 18:17.25 | linuxfreck | it's the official site for things that people try to get added to the java standard |
| 18:20.49 | awt | I see. Looking at it it just seems to have the documentation, thoug I seem to recall seeing a reference implementation somewhere... |
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| 18:25.59 | linuxfreck | awt: there is a whole apache top-level project for them: http://portals.apache.org/ |
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| 19:36.57 | jajmon | hi, how come my server doesn't react immediately i change something in a jsp page? sometimes i hit refresh five times before it updates the page.. |
| 19:37.27 | jajmon | tomcat 5.5 |
| 19:38.02 | linuxfreck | probably the browser cache still has the old version |
| 19:39.14 | jajmon | but i never experienced this when i was doing php with apache.. |
| 19:42.43 | linuxfreck | well php is a completely different thing |
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| 19:44.02 | jajmon | but how is it different in terms of browser cache ? |
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| 19:46.48 | titanium | can tomcat run on amd 64? |
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| 19:48.12 | jajmon | yes it can |
| 19:56.29 | titanium | do i have to build from source? |
| 19:57.04 | ocnarfid9 | Anyone do profiling with tomcat? (if so what software do you like) |
| 19:58.40 | jajmon | titanium, nope.. im running it on amd 64 and i didnt build from source |
| 20:01.05 | linuxfreck | titanium: this is java. you never build from source |
| 20:01.32 | linuxfreck | titanium: just install the amd64 java vm |
| 20:04.13 | titanium | what about dual processors? will tomcat mysql and jvm recognize them? |
| 20:04.51 | linuxfreck | if the operating system supports them, tomcat will too |
| 20:04.59 | linuxfreck | and think again about using mysql |
| 20:05.39 | titanium | what would you recommend? |
| 20:05.52 | titanium | im using mysql because that is what my app was built for. i didnt build the app. |
| 20:06.33 | titanium | i've always been told that sql isnt vendor independent |
| 20:07.13 | titanium | even though sql in theory, should be. |
| 20:08.17 | linuxfreck | well if you have to run a third party app that only supports mysql, you better should do it |
| 20:08.35 | linuxfreck | I thought you would develop a new app |
| 20:09.06 | linuxfreck | mysql processes a transaction using one processor. if there are more transactions, it can also use more procs |
| 20:11.59 | titanium | I wish my app ran on something other than mysql. I want to beta test the latest version of our app on my mac and mac is horrible with mysql. like 5x slower than on linux. |
| 20:12.33 | linuxfreck | the performance of mysql is a myth imo |
| 20:13.04 | titanium | :-) |
| 20:14.18 | linuxfreck | it got that myth in the version 3.x times where it didn't support many basic sql features |
| 20:22.25 | titanium | http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2436&p=6 |
| 20:22.43 | titanium | <---- mysql on g5 benchmarks |
| 20:22.55 | linuxfreck | whoops |
| 20:23.00 | linuxfreck | didn't think it was that bad |
| 20:23.58 | titanium | they have an explaination in the article about the way osx handles certain operations that mysql uses. |
| 20:27.51 | linuxfreck | the article confuses threads and processes |
| 20:28.09 | linuxfreck | mysql and apache httpd use several processes and ipc, which might be quite slow indeed |
| 20:28.22 | linuxfreck | tomcat uses threads, maybe that is better |
| 20:28.46 | *** part/#tomcat Snuff (n=tbel3393@CPE-149-167-204-115.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 20:29.12 | linuxfreck | it basically sucks completely because they have no idea what the difference is |
| 20:29.29 | titanium | who doesnt? anandtech? |
| 20:29.38 | linuxfreck | yes |
| 20:59.01 | *** join/#tomcat valmont (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) |
| 21:23.37 | *** join/#tomcat jedir0x0r (n=p00face@66.77.208.2) |
| 21:23.53 | jedir0x0r | where do you get the HTTP status code? ie: 404, or 500, or 200, etc. |
| 21:23.57 | jedir0x0r | at runtime |
| 21:25.43 | linuxfreck | what do you mean? |
| 21:25.50 | linuxfreck | or better: what are you trying to do? |
| 21:25.52 | jedir0x0r | well, i have an error page defined |
| 21:26.00 | jedir0x0r | for 404, but i plan on sending other errors to it |
| 21:26.07 | jedir0x0r | ie: 500 |
| 21:26.22 | jedir0x0r | anyway, i want to access the HTTP status code so i can record it. |
| 21:26.26 | jedir0x0r | and do other things with it. |
| 21:26.43 | linuxfreck | ah ok, the 200 confused me |
| 21:27.20 | jedir0x0r | any idea? |
| 21:29.08 | jedir0x0r | javax.servlet.error.status_code |
| 21:29.14 | jedir0x0r | request.getAttribute("javax.servlet.error.status_code"); |
| 22:41.40 | *** part/#tomcat awt (n=awt@c-69-181-76-3.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:52.55 | map7 | does anyone here use MVC design patterns? |
| 23:55.52 | map7 | I'm designing a large accounting system and I'm thinking of using the Domain Model with a Data Mapper is this the best approach for large projects which require flexibility? Will this model fit in well with programming in JSP and beans? |