| 00:19.51 | *** join/#tomcat sq24 (n=sd@81.212.114.81) |
| 00:23.40 | *** join/#tomcat L-----D (n=LongkerD@211.160.165.186) |
| 00:33.42 | *** join/#tomcat jsisson (n=sissonj@210-0-83-196.nexnet.net.au) |
| 00:55.34 | *** part/#tomcat jieryn (n=jieryn@unaffiliated/jieryn) |
| 01:18.20 | *** join/#tomcat [1]cowboy (i=LinuxDev@ACA1D19F.ipt.aol.com) |
| 01:18.48 | [1]cowboy | hello |
| 01:20.44 | [1]cowboy | can gcj be used as the java compiler for tomcat ? or do i need to get the sun java sdk ? |
| 01:25.23 | jasonb | Depends on if you want it to work all the way or not. :) |
| 01:31.59 | [1]cowboy | well, yeah i want it to work all the way :-) |
| 01:32.26 | jasonb | Okay, then you can't use gcj. |
| 01:32.34 | [1]cowboy | ok |
| 01:33.07 | jasonb | Using gcj you may be able to compile it, and even get it to run, and answer some requests, but it will eventually fail because their Java implementation is not complete, and is therefore incompatible. |
| 01:33.32 | [1]cowboy | i see, thank you. |
| 01:33.44 | jasonb | You're welcome. |
| 01:34.10 | [1]cowboy | This is my first attempt to build a linux, apache, tomcat, mysql, jsp system |
| 01:36.06 | [1]cowboy | I am a bit confused at the moment about what java server pages are...I know java runs on the server side for jsp...and i think it consists of java embedded in webpages . |
| 01:36.12 | *** join/#tomcat LongkerDandy (n=LongkerD@211.160.165.186) |
| 01:36.17 | *** join/#tomcat randrew (n=user1@31.sub-70-195-136.myvzw.com) |
| 01:36.52 | [1]cowboy | would you recommend the sun java 5 sdk ? |
| 01:38.11 | [1]cowboy | i have read that ant or another application which i do not remember the name of can be used to compile jsp for tomcat |
| 01:39.52 | jasonb | Yes, I would recommend the Sun Java 5 JDK. It's nice. I also recommend the BEA JRockit Java 5 JDK, since it appears to be faster than the Sun one. |
| 01:41.11 | jasonb | About pre-compilation of JSPs with ant, forget it. You can do it, but if you're using a recent Tomcat version I doubt it will give you any benefit, except for maybe tell you if you have a syntax error before you run the webapp. Catching syntax errors like that is nice, however it makes the build take much longer. |
| 01:41.44 | [1]cowboy | thank you. |
| 01:41.53 | jasonb | You're welcome. |
| 01:42.33 | [1]cowboy | i do not have to use a specific version of tomcat...but am planning to use 5.5 unless i find some reason to go with another version. |
| 01:43.06 | jasonb | Yes, you should use 5.5. If you pull one down soon, get 5.5.16. |
| 01:43.19 | [1]cowboy | i am planning to use slackware 10.1, mysql 5.1, apache 1.3.?, jsp |
| 01:43.33 | jasonb | You don't need apache. |
| 01:44.08 | [1]cowboy | doesnt using apache with tomcat add a small amount of security if setup right ? |
| 01:44.16 | jasonb | Tomcat stand-alone is faster. |
| 01:44.23 | jasonb | No, apache is less secure than Tomcat is. |
| 01:44.30 | [1]cowboy | is it as secure ? |
| 01:44.32 | jasonb | Adding apache lowers your security. |
| 01:44.33 | [1]cowboy | oh |
| 01:44.37 | [1]cowboy | hmmmmm |
| 01:44.43 | [1]cowboy | that is good to know. |
| 01:44.46 | jasonb | Yup. |
| 01:44.52 | jasonb | And, apache slows Tomcat down. |
| 01:45.30 | [1]cowboy | so what is benefit to apache with tomcat ? maybe apache talking to multiple machines running tomcat ? |
| 01:46.44 | [1]cowboy | that is if it is a large system |
| 01:47.04 | jasonb | The only benefit to running Tomcat "behind" apache that I'm aware of is: there are modules available for apache that aren't available for Tomcat, and if you need the technologies implemented in those modules (most of which compete with implementations from Tomcat), then you can use those plus JSP/servlets by using apache and Tomcat together. |
| 01:47.24 | jasonb | If you need to cluster Tomcat, using apache in front to distribute requests is the wrong thing to do. |
| 01:47.46 | [1]cowboy | ok |
| 01:47.48 | jasonb | Apache is not a great request distributor. |
| 01:48.07 | jasonb | Use Linux Virtual Server, or just iptables on a Linux box for that instead. |
| 01:48.08 | [1]cowboy | i do not need to cluster tomcat....just that is what i have read. |
| 01:48.22 | jasonb | There is quite a bit of misinformation floating around. |
| 01:49.04 | [1]cowboy | where can i get good reliable information about systems running tomcat, and maybe mysql, etc... |
| 01:49.34 | jasonb | Many people say they need apache so they can run both PHP and JSP at the same time. But, I think they shouldn't do that if they don't have to. They should instead choose either PHP or JSP. |
| 01:49.50 | [1]cowboy | i agree |
| 01:50.17 | jasonb | Well, there are some good books on Tomcat, but I don't think they go into much detail about mysql. |
| 01:50.25 | [1]cowboy | i chose jsp because it appears more scalable.......and depending on where you get info maybe more secure if correct precatuions are taken |
| 01:50.52 | jasonb | JSP is indeed more scalable, but if you spend enough time on them, PHP and JSP can both scale up. |
| 01:51.08 | [1]cowboy | ok |
| 01:51.36 | jasonb | PHP is easier to pick up and write simple webapps in, but you pay for that later when it becomes unmaintainable and slow. |
| 01:51.40 | [1]cowboy | this topic is new to me so after googling for hours i looked for an irc channel to help |
| 01:51.54 | [1]cowboy | that is good to know too |
| 01:51.54 | jasonb | JSP is harder at first, but you are paid back for that with good performance, and maintainable code. |
| 01:52.20 | jasonb | Yeah, I'm glad you found us. :) You'll get plenty of answers in here. |
| 01:52.38 | [1]cowboy | am i correct in thinking jsp is basically java embedded in an html page ? |
| 01:52.42 | [1]cowboy | thank you Jasonb |
| 01:54.36 | jasonb | Well, JSP *can* be Java embedded in an HTML page. |
| 01:54.50 | jasonb | But, that can end up getting messy, so usually people don't write their JSP that way. |
| 01:55.16 | jasonb | JSP implements a scripting language that you can use instead of Java, that is a language that is better suited for web page scripting. |
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| 01:55.28 | [1]cowboy | ok |
| 01:56.06 | jasonb | JSP is flexible in that it lets you do whatever it is you would like to do with it, including embedding Java code right into the page if that's what you want. |
| 01:56.48 | jasonb | Or, it can allow you to write no java code at all, but instead JSP expression language code that is a bit simpler, and better adapted for web page scripting. |
| 01:56.57 | jasonb | You could also mix the two.. that's another option. |
| 01:57.11 | [1]cowboy | there are a couple of applications i hope to use a LAMP like system for......at this point not sure of details so i started looking at LAMP and decided to go jsp instead of php route. |
| 01:57.28 | jasonb | Also, you can write a JSP page in plain html, xhtml, or jspx (xml that is interpreted by the JSP page compiler). |
| 01:57.45 | jasonb | good choice. |
| 01:57.46 | [1]cowboy | hmmm |
| 01:58.16 | [1]cowboy | so is the JSP page compiler just the java compiler in the sun java sdk ? |
| 01:58.26 | jasonb | Java is a very powerful language that is very helpful almost regardless of what you decide to write. |
| 01:58.53 | [1]cowboy | yes i agree |
| 01:59.02 | jasonb | Well, the JSP page compiler builds upon the Java compiler.. but it also has its own syntax that it compiles into Java source, then builds that Java source via the Java compiler. |
| 01:59.31 | jasonb | It compiles JSP pages into servlet classes, which end up being run as Java servlets. |
| 02:00.06 | [1]cowboy | so the jsp compiler compiles jsp into java and the java compiler compiles it into bytecode or binary depending on specifics of the java compilation. |
| 02:01.17 | jasonb | No, the Java compiler compiles it into bytecodes, and the Java VM runtime compiles the bytecodes into native code at runtime. |
| 02:02.17 | [1]cowboy | yes the sun compiler...but doesnt gcj give the option of compiling directly to binary ? |
| 02:02.32 | jasonb | So, JSP --> Java Servlet source code --> bytecodes (class file) --> native code |
| 02:02.49 | [1]cowboy | k |
| 02:03.37 | jasonb | Yes, gcj (and other AOT -- ahead of time -- compilers) allow you to compile Java bytecodes into native code before runtime, then run the native binary. That does indeed get tricky when you have an application like Tomcat that uses its own Java compiler to compile Java source code then run the class file. |
| 02:03.47 | jasonb | But, I've done it. |
| 02:04.13 | jasonb | I used the Excelsior Jet AOT compiler to compile all of Tomcat and my webapp, and ran it all as a big native binary.. and it worked fine. |
| 02:04.29 | [1]cowboy | cool |
| 02:04.41 | [1]cowboy | is the BEA JRockit Java 5 JDK open source ? i am not familiar with it |
| 02:04.59 | jasonb | Underneath, though, I believe JSP works the same way.. it still has to compile a JSP into Java source, then compile the Java source into bytecodes, and then load that bytecode and run it. |
| 02:05.14 | jasonb | JRockit isn't open source, but it is a free download just like Sun's JVM.. |
| 02:05.24 | [1]cowboy | ok that is just as good |
| 02:05.30 | [1]cowboy | in this instance |
| 02:05.37 | jasonb | But, JRockit is better tailored for server-side use because that's the JVM that BEA has their customers running Weblogic on. |
| 02:05.40 | [1]cowboy | i need to bookmark that so i will remember it |
| 02:06.58 | [1]cowboy | this is getting to be very complex |
| 02:07.02 | jasonb | Download it and try it out.. it's worth trying. Download both Sun's and BEA's and you can switch between them. |
| 02:07.15 | [1]cowboy | ok, cool |
| 02:07.31 | randrew | jasonb: apache isn't less secure than tomcat. |
| 02:07.44 | jasonb | Just set the JAVA_HOME environment variable to the path of the JVM dir you want to switch to. |
| 02:08.01 | [1]cowboy | ok |
| 02:08.04 | jasonb | randrew: Apache has had more reports of buffer overflows and remote root exploits over the past several years than Tomcat has. |
| 02:08.07 | [1]cowboy | thank you. |
| 02:08.57 | jasonb | randrew: Also, since apache is native code, there's always the opportunity to find more of those types of insecurities. Tomcat does run on a native code JVM, but the code of the JVM is checked with great scrutiny for these kinds of insecurities. |
| 02:09.33 | jasonb | randrew: When have you heard of someone exploiting a JVM buffer overflow bug by carefully crafting HTTP requests to Tomcat, for example? :) |
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| 02:10.03 | jasonb | Also, adding apache on the front of Tomcat means that you now have to secure two servers instead of just one, so you have twice the opportunity to goof the configuration. |
| 02:10.28 | randrew | jasonb: haha. well apache doesn't require write permission on it's own configuration files in order to run. |
| 02:10.50 | jasonb | randrew: Since when does Tomcat? |
| 02:10.54 | randrew | jasonb: apache also provides a solid mechanism for running on port 80. |
| 02:11.24 | jasonb | randrew: There are plenty of ways of running Tomcat "solidly" on port 80. People who can't don't have a decent Tomcat package for their OS. |
| 02:11.46 | [1]cowboy | jasonb, a question showing more of my ignorance of this topic, if tomcat is more secure than apache but can do many of same tasks then why is apache used so much on the internet ? i am just curious and trying to learn. |
| 02:12.42 | jasonb | [1]cowboy: Apache has been around for many years more, back when the market for web servers was up for grabs. Back then Apache did very well and grabbed a huge swath of that market, most of which it still holds today (it's actually increased). |
| 02:13.10 | [1]cowboy | ok |
| 02:13.13 | randrew | jasonb: tomcat insists on rewriting tomcat-users.xml. I think 5.5 was changed to allow it to start up even if the file was ro. If the file is writeable it gets rewritten, which is just plain dumb. |
| 02:13.17 | jasonb | [1]cowboy: Tomcat is much newer, and the web server wars were basically over by the time Tomcat was ready for production use, and people are reluctant to switch away from Apache. |
| 02:13.36 | jasonb | randrew: Nobody has to use the user database realm if they don't want to. |
| 02:13.54 | jasonb | randrew: And, anyone worried about security will just make sure that file is ro. |
| 02:14.17 | [1]cowboy | the only one i refuse to use is IIS :-) |
| 02:15.36 | jasonb | [1]cowboy: Another thing to consider is: when you hear that "Apache" has 70% of the web server market (whatever the current percentage is), how did they count those? By the server identification header of each web server? Okay, if they did that, then Tomcat identifies itself as "Apache Tomcat", and if their filter looks for the string "Apache", then Tomcat's share actually increases Apache httpd's share, and we don't hear wh |
| 02:15.36 | jasonb | at percent Tomcat has. |
| 02:16.18 | [1]cowboy | aahhhhh good point |
| 02:16.26 | jasonb | newer Tomcat versions identify themselves as "Apache Coyote". So even if you look for "Tomcat" you wouldn't find it in that case. |
| 02:16.31 | [1]cowboy | seems that should could one for apache and one for tomcat |
| 02:16.34 | jasonb | I think that's a major blunder of the Apache Tomcat committers. |
| 02:16.46 | [1]cowboy | makes sense |
| 02:17.10 | jasonb | So, the truth is: we don't know what percentage of the web Tomcat serves today mainly because nobody's looking. |
| 02:17.34 | [1]cowboy | good point |
| 02:24.04 | randrew | jasonb: I'm not convinced : ). I think following the standard install instructions for apache gives you a more secure system than tomcat. I think you need to spend more time to make tomcat secure. |
| 02:25.54 | jasonb | randrew: If security is what you're after, then you'd obviously run Tomcat with the -security switch to turn on the SecurityManager, and that doesn't require any special configuration after installation at all. If you turn that on, I disagree that Apache httpd would be more secure.. and even with it off I still disagree. |
| 02:27.37 | jasonb | randrew: If you're worried about the default configuration of server.xml, that's been like it is now for years, and any important security flaws with it were fixed more than a couple of years ago. |
| 02:27.45 | randrew | jasonb: I'm glad you brought that up. You can see that 'security' is an option with tomcat that is not enabled by default. |
| 02:27.57 | [1]cowboy | jasonb, are capabilities of apache and tomcat very simular ? I thoght i read that tomcat could be used as a standalone app or as a module for apache. |
| 02:28.14 | jasonb | randrew: Well, that's more of a mislabeled startup switch, IMHO. |
| 02:28.33 | jasonb | randrew: It's a shortened string for "securitymanager".. |
| 02:29.24 | kuto | hmm, nice topic you have here, mornin to all. |
| 02:29.50 | jasonb | [1]cowboy: Yes, capabilities of apache and Tomcat are similar. No, Tomcat itself cannot be used as a module for apache, that's what mod_jk does (a separate codebase, and a separate project).. but also mod_proxy can forward connections to Tomcat. |
| 02:30.15 | jasonb | hi kuto. |
| 02:31.28 | randrew | jasonb: I will admit that using the jvm's security manager gives you capabilities to configure things with greater flexibility (and security) than any options httpd has. |
| 02:32.03 | jasonb | randrew: Yes, it brings security to a new level that Apache httpd does not implement. |
| 02:35.59 | randrew | jasonb: for me, the number of reported vulnerabilities in httpd tells me nothing about the security of tomcat. |
| 02:36.09 | jasonb | randrew: No, the number of reported vulnerabilities in Tomcat should tell you that. |
| 02:36.34 | jasonb | I'm just trying to compare the two sets of numbers. |
| 02:36.59 | *** part/#tomcat jsisson (n=sissonj@210-0-83-196.nexnet.net.au) |
| 02:37.30 | randrew | randrew: but that is not presenting an accurate picture. |
| 02:37.41 | jasonb | randrew: Are you talking to yourself again? :) |
| 02:37.56 | randrew | oops |
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| 02:38.08 | jasonb | Well, everything is relative. |
| 02:38.15 | randrew | jasonb: the security of any of these systems depends on how they are configured and used |
| 02:38.17 | jasonb | Tomcat's security can still improve. |
| 02:38.38 | jasonb | But, relative to Apache httpd's security, Tomcat is more secure. |
| 02:39.10 | jasonb | SANS goes by reported incidents. |
| 02:39.47 | jasonb | If there are a high number of reported incidents of Tomcat, SANS would put Tomcat on their list of most important vulnerabilities, and would attempt to describe the scenario(s). |
| 02:39.49 | [1]cowboy | i believe that any software security can improve.......just like a lock, it keeps out the more honest people. |
| 02:39.57 | jasonb | They've done this with Apache httpd already, but not Tomcat. |
| 02:40.38 | randrew | jasonb: out of the box? it's not at all clear... |
| 02:40.43 | jasonb | [1]cowboy: Yes, exactly. Plus, security is mutually exclusive of convenience. If it's super secure, it also must be pretty inconvenient. |
| 02:41.29 | jasonb | [1]cowboy: This may mean that Tomcat is less convenient to use than Apache.. that might very well be true. But, Tomcat has more than one security model.. |
| 02:41.43 | [1]cowboy | exactly jason....security inversely proportional to convenience |
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| 02:45.25 | jasonb | Welp, I have to head out. |
| 02:45.37 | [1]cowboy | thanks Jasonb |
| 02:45.40 | jasonb | I'll be on again later tonight though, I think. |
| 02:45.54 | jasonb | [1]cowboy: You're welcome.. keep up the learning. :) |
| 02:46.05 | [1]cowboy | i hope to be asleep soon....i have a long day t9morow and weekend too |
| 02:46.20 | jasonb | g'night. |
| 02:46.37 | randrew | jasonb: see ya. guess I need to find some tc vulns to convince you. : ) |
| 02:46.53 | jasonb | randrew: That would be most entertaining. :) |
| 02:47.10 | jasonb | See ya. |
| 03:36.26 | *** part/#tomcat randrew (n=user1@31.sub-70-195-136.myvzw.com) |
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| 03:42.22 | tmccrary | What methods are available to do url rewriting in tomcat? Are filters the best way or is there anything more specific? |
| 03:42.28 | tmccrary | I want to simplify urls |
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| 08:25.55 | [RUsh] | hello. I have a problem described here: ttp://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-interfaces/2000-09/msg00009.php . How can I tell Tomcat to use -Dfile.encoding=UTF-8 option while running servlets and jsps ? |
| 09:17.26 | jnorthrup_pb17 | what options besides mod_ssl and mod_jk exist for wrapping ssl around tomcat? can tomcat serve ssl on its own steam? |
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| 10:45.16 | FrNRV | Hi |
| 10:45.36 | FrNRV | is there a tutorial for clustering and load balancing in tomcat thatr includes config files? |
| 10:46.16 | *** join/#tomcat sobersabre (n=stubborn@l192-117-118-8.broadband.actcom.net.il) |
| 10:46.17 | sobersabre | hi |
| 10:47.03 | sobersabre | i am using ubuntu and tomcat5... I think there's some mess in the startup/shutdown scripts there... I get wierd errors. |
| 10:47.32 | sobersabre | is there a know ubuntu package problem ? ( haven't found these errors on google relating to ubuntu ) |
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| 11:00.23 | Hydra_ | hi |
| 11:01.16 | Hydra_ | i'm running BIRT via tomcat and it appears that tomcat is not waiting long enough for birt to finish generating the pdf file |
| 11:01.27 | Hydra_ | how can i tell tomcat to wait longer for birt? |
| 11:01.34 | *** part/#tomcat FrNRV (n=Fraifrai@ns1.ntsys.fr) |
| 11:06.28 | Hydra_ | e.g: |
| 11:06.29 | Hydra_ | http://localhost:8080/birt-viewer/run?__report=D:\SVN\GRT2\trunk\reports\test4.rptdesign&Country+Code=uk&Limit=23&__format=pdf |
| 11:06.48 | Hydra_ | if i set a small limit (which limits the rows from the query) it runs fine |
| 11:07.06 | Hydra_ | if I up the limit to much it takes longer than 60 seconds and then stops |
| 11:07.36 | Hydra_ | i see in the local documentation: http://localhost:8080/tomcat-docs/config/http.html |
| 11:08.05 | Hydra_ | there's an option called "connectionTimeout" which defaults to 60,000 (60 seconds) |
| 11:08.12 | Hydra_ | but i can't see how to change this |
| 11:08.16 | Hydra_ | can anyone help? |
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| 12:56.29 | [RUsh] | I have simple html form with POST method and action for example streets.jsp. I fill in form with some data and press submit. When in my action page I write something like out.print(request.getParameter("title")); - I get incorrect data on my browser screen |
| 12:56.58 | [RUsh] | whose blame it is? |
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| 15:16.41 | a4akb | anyone here |
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| 15:24.04 | lyken | me |
| 15:25.57 | *** join/#tomcat [javamaniac] (n=javamani@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:27ed) |
| 15:26.27 | a4akb | Hi lyken. LTNC. |
| 15:32.38 | *** part/#tomcat [javamaniac] (n=javamani@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:27ed) |
| 16:00.54 | a4akb | lyken: boo |
| 16:01.00 | a4akb | ibot cypher |
| 16:01.01 | ibot | well, cypher is leaving the chat now |
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| 17:12.21 | jnorthrup_pb17 | can you share sessions/cookies in the same tomcat across different coyote ports of service (ie, ssl, non-ssl ) ? |
| 17:59.41 | *** join/#tomcat GhettoJava (n=Freemani@ip67-153-106-58.z106-153-67.customer.algx.net) |
| 18:05.04 | *** join/#tomcat valmont (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) |
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| 18:47.30 | *** join/#tomcat dreivier (n=dreivier@port-212-202-44-200.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 18:50.58 | *** join/#tomcat jasonb (i=noneoyer@adsl-66-124-73-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
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| 19:24.03 | *** join/#tomcat yassine (n=yassine@p5087CA63.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:24.38 | yassine | heya everyone |
| 19:36.37 | jasonb | hi yassine |
| 19:39.16 | yassine | hi jasonb |
| 19:39.32 | yassine | everything is fine with you ? |
| 19:45.21 | jasonb | yassine: Yes, other than not having enough time to finish things as soon as others want it.. |
| 19:45.31 | jasonb | yassine: But, that's life. |
| 19:47.17 | yassine | try to enjoy the time/life you own and where you dont have to achieves somone's wishes |
| 19:47.49 | jasonb | Oh, I sure do. It's just that I don't really "own" any time anymore. :) |
| 19:48.12 | lyken | happy st paddys day guys ! |
| 19:48.37 | yassine | :) |
| 19:55.31 | jasonb | lyken: Yeah, happy shamrock day. |
| 19:56.12 | lyken | lol |
| 19:56.13 | lyken | so am i :) |
| 19:56.18 | lyken | im in amherst |
| 19:56.22 | lyken | college town hehe |
| 19:56.36 | lyken | next week ill be in toronto |
| 20:02.00 | jasonb | A guy I work with went to school there. |
| 20:02.19 | lyken | @nasa ? |
| 20:02.23 | jasonb | yep. |
| 20:02.31 | lyken | i was gonna do my PhD here |
| 20:02.39 | jasonb | He's part astronomer, and part software engineer. |
| 20:02.57 | jasonb | Yeah, it's apparently a good school. |
| 20:03.23 | lyken | i just finished reading "big bang" by simon singh |
| 20:04.30 | jasonb | How was it? |
| 20:04.37 | lyken | i liked it |
| 20:04.44 | lyken | i really liked his other two books too |
| 20:04.57 | jasonb | Did you see the recent headlines about the first trillionth of a second of the universe? |
| 20:05.04 | jasonb | I thought that was pretty spiffy. |
| 20:05.09 | lyken | oh? |
| 20:05.22 | jasonb | It's all over the news today and yesterday. |
| 20:05.27 | lyken | yer ive been offline :) |
| 20:05.47 | lyken | is that more work from COBE ?? |
| 20:05.57 | jasonb | http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/03/16/cosmic.inflation.ap/index.html |
| 20:07.10 | jasonb | http://space.com/scienceastronomy/060316_wmap_results.html |
| 20:07.18 | lyken | ooh based on CMB |
| 20:07.20 | jasonb | It's analysis from WMAP, apparently. |
| 20:07.24 | lyken | yter |
| 20:08.06 | lyken | i think after reading this book working for NASA would be cool |
| 20:08.18 | jasonb | Yes.. I guess I always thought that. :) |
| 20:08.27 | jasonb | .. and it is. :) |
| 20:09.05 | lyken | heh |
| 20:09.09 | lyken | well yer |
| 20:09.15 | lyken | but i dont think id make the cut if i applied |
| 20:09.43 | jasonb | It's harder now since there are major cutbacks.. all except for manned space missions to the moon, which is the hot thing now. |
| 20:10.01 | lyken | yer |
| 20:10.05 | lyken | my dream |
| 20:10.08 | lyken | before i 'expire' |
| 20:10.12 | lyken | to stand on the moon |
| 20:10.17 | lyken | i know it prolly wont happen |
| 20:10.26 | lyken | but man that would be a very good life achievement |
| 20:10.31 | jasonb | But, yeah, the moon would be fun for a bit. |
| 20:10.33 | lyken | well i just want to start there and look at eart |
| 20:10.35 | lyken | earth.. |
| 20:10.42 | lyken | cause its still large and easily visible |
| 20:11.08 | lyken | lol slashdot is just posting the big bang stuff |
| 20:11.12 | lyken | nice work slashdot |
| 20:11.17 | jasonb | If you want to see the earth from space, you'll likely get your chance if Virgin Galactic has anything to say about it. |
| 20:11.18 | lyken | late and half informed as usual |
| 20:11.24 | lyken | for 7 mins |
| 20:11.28 | lyken | i want days |
| 20:11.34 | lyken | and its out some window |
| 20:11.44 | lyken | i want a colonized settlement for research on the moon |
| 20:11.53 | jasonb | Well, I feel I'll be lucky just to get that someday. |
| 20:12.30 | lyken | youre not that much older than me are you ? |
| 20:12.53 | jasonb | No, but still.. I realize how long this kind of technology takes.. and how costly it really is. |
| 20:13.00 | lyken | yer |
| 20:13.09 | lyken | well i believe alot of it is politics |
| 20:13.20 | lyken | and i think within 30 years china will be planting rice on the moon |
| 20:13.29 | jasonb | Yes, but politics ties up the money. And, no bucks, no Buck Rodgers. |
| 20:13.33 | lyken | yup |
| 20:14.01 | lyken | i think space is a place that corporations may work better than government agencies |
| 20:14.12 | lyken | i dont really like corps |
| 20:14.18 | jasonb | Probably. |
| 20:14.19 | lyken | but they have less red tape |
| 20:14.36 | jasonb | Except for a company as depicted in the movie Alien/Aliens. :) |
| 20:14.43 | lyken | lol |
| 20:15.13 | jasonb | Welp, I have to head to lunch. |
| 20:15.38 | lyken | oh yeh |
| 20:15.45 | jasonb | Cheerio. |
| 20:15.47 | lyken | im in ahead, again |
| 20:15.48 | lyken | LOL |
| 20:15.55 | lyken | only 2-3 hrs this time |
| 20:16.12 | jasonb | yup, lunch time for us US/Pacific TZ folks. |
| 20:16.29 | lyken | have fun mate |
| 20:16.35 | jasonb | see ya. |
| 20:17.21 | *** join/#tomcat yassine (n=yassine@p5087D613.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:19.30 | crappyuser | I know this isn't a log4j channel but can anyone help me with my log4j.properties on my tomcat setup |
| 20:19.39 | crappyuser | I want to only see output from a certain web app |
| 20:20.36 | crappyuser | so right now I only seem to get "effects" when I put a log4j.properties in my common/classes dir |
| 20:20.51 | crappyuser | if I put it in my web apps /WEB-INF/classes nothing happens |
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| 21:15.42 | *** part/#tomcat randrew (n=raj@dolmen.cc.columbia.edu) |
| 21:30.49 | crappyuser | ok tomcat used to have a logger tag which you could put in context and you could say you wanted your logger filename to be timestamped |
| 21:31.02 | crappyuser | how does one replicate this filename timestamping with log4j? |
| 21:31.32 | *** join/#tomcat BiGcaT (n=e_liming@81-6-241-37.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 21:44.09 | *** join/#tomcat yoavs (n=yoavs@216.183.191.99) |
| 21:55.59 | crappyuser | man its good I never get any answers to my questions cuz so far I have figured them all out |
| 21:56.01 | crappyuser | :P |
| 21:57.58 | jasonb | crappyuser: If I knew log4j (a different OSS project) better, I would have probably tried to answer. |
| 21:59.21 | crappyuser | word |
| 22:03.21 | yoavs | what was the question? |
| 22:10.14 | jasonb | wow, yoavs is here. :) |
| 22:10.42 | yoavs | i was just thinking, wow, jasonb is here -- i've never written a book ;) |
| 22:10.47 | jasonb | :) |
| 22:11.09 | jasonb | It sucks up all your time, and people tell you you're going way too slow. |
| 22:11.12 | yoavs | been actually hoping to see The Definitive Guide 2nd Ed |
| 22:11.19 | jasonb | I'm working on that now, actually. |
| 22:11.22 | yoavs | cool |
| 22:11.38 | jasonb | And, I'm being distracted by all the clustering changes. heh. |
| 22:11.51 | jasonb | But, I'm generally quite happy with TC 5.5. |
| 22:11.58 | yoavs | blame Filip and Peter ;) |
| 22:12.06 | jasonb | Yeah, I know. |
| 22:12.19 | yoavs | are you covering connectors in your book? |
| 22:12.52 | jasonb | I am, however.. My favorite one is the pure Java one that is really hassle free and high performance. |
| 22:13.00 | jasonb | I really don't use Apache httpd anymore. |
| 22:13.07 | yoavs | yeah, neither do I |
| 22:13.10 | jasonb | I realize people want to, but mod_jk really really sucks. |
| 22:13.31 | jasonb | I have mixed thoughts about the new APR connector. |
| 22:13.47 | yoavs | as long as it's optional... |
| 22:13.56 | jasonb | Yeah, and turned off by default! |
| 22:14.24 | yoavs | yup |
| 22:14.30 | jasonb | In the first edition we covered mod_jk2 and mod_proxy. In the second edition I plan to cover mod_proxy and mod_jk(1).. |
| 22:14.45 | jasonb | And, I'm suggesting everyone use mod_proxy over mod_jk. |
| 22:15.18 | jasonb | You should see the number of user questions in here about mod_jk.. users who can't get it to work after spending days on it. |
| 22:16.04 | yoavs | i believe it |
| 22:16.29 | jasonb | yoavs: Do you use Tomcat on an RPM-based Linux? |
| 22:16.45 | yoavs | sometimes |
| 22:16.50 | jasonb | IIRC you mainly use Windows. :) |
| 22:17.10 | yoavs | i sort of us everything, it depends on the environment, the context -- i've got a lot going on ;) |
| 22:17.10 | jasonb | I wrote an RPM package builder for Tomcat, and that's going into the second edition.. |
| 22:17.19 | jasonb | Yeah. |
| 22:17.20 | yoavs | that's pretty cool |
| 22:17.30 | yoavs | JPackage.org does a good job |
| 22:17.38 | jasonb | I have to disagree with that. |
| 22:17.40 | yoavs | they're not as fast as i'd like |
| 22:17.44 | yoavs | and not as complete |
| 22:18.08 | yoavs | but hey... it's better than doing it myself ;) |
| 22:18.08 | jasonb | The jpackage one builds from source code.. why should they do that? The official release binary is better, and it's platform independent. |
| 22:18.28 | yoavs | mmm, i thought jpackage did both src and bin-based packages |
| 22:18.33 | jasonb | Also, the jpackage.org one has spidering dependencies on lots and lots of other Java RPMs that it shouldn't need to. |
| 22:19.22 | jasonb | yoavs: The SRC RPM of the jpackage.org Tomcat package builds Tomcat from source.. and then builds binary RPMs from what it built. But, you can't build it at all if you don't have all the jpackage RPM build dependencies installed just right on your box. |
| 22:19.34 | yoavs | ah, i see, that's a pain |
| 22:19.39 | jasonb | yoavs: And, whether you can get them installed just right on your box depends on what version of what distro you're running. |
| 22:20.01 | jasonb | yoavs: All for nothing, since you can download the binary release of Tomcat that is build the right way and it'll run regardless of your OS. |
| 22:20.27 | jasonb | And, mixed into all that, RedHat tries to build it all with GNU "Java". |
| 22:20.28 | yoavs | i see ,makes sense... why did you write your own rpm builder? |
| 22:20.48 | jasonb | I had to write my own for work.. the jpackage one was unacceptable for what we were doing. |
| 22:21.00 | jasonb | Plus, the init script in the jpackage one really didn't work. |
| 22:21.33 | jasonb | So, I made a new init script, and made a new tomcat spec file, and made it "build" the binary RPM from the official binary release of Tomcat. |
| 22:21.51 | jasonb | It builds far, far faster and easier that way, and you have basically no RPM build dependencies. |
| 22:22.05 | yoavs | mmm, cool stuff |
| 22:22.07 | jasonb | Not only that, but you also have no RPM installation dependencies except for Java. |
| 22:22.09 | yoavs | what's the license on it in your book? |
| 22:22.20 | jasonb | It's the Apache License, of course. :) |
| 22:22.28 | yoavs | sweet |
| 22:22.44 | jasonb | Also, I needed a fully relocateable package, which is how I initially wrote it. |
| 22:22.50 | jasonb | The jpackage.org one is not relocateable. |
| 22:23.03 | yoavs | yeah, i've run into the relocatable issue in the past |
| 22:23.18 | yoavs | went back to using the normal binary distro at the time |
| 22:23.33 | jasonb | Not only that, but you can install more than one of my RPM package set at a time, in two or more different locations, and they won't trample each other. |
| 22:23.43 | yoavs | nice |
| 22:23.48 | jasonb | Plus, it's CATALINA_BASE relocation friendly. |
| 22:24.08 | jasonb | You can see I've spent lots of time on it. |
| 22:24.22 | jasonb | It also works across a greater number of distros and versions.. |
| 22:24.40 | jasonb | Fedora, RedHat, Gentoo, Suse, YellowDog |
| 22:25.05 | jasonb | The only popular branch of Linux it doesn't work on is Debian. |
| 22:25.34 | yoavs | yeah, i can see you like it ;) that's good |
| 22:26.06 | jasonb | It works great for me, and so I can concentrate more on actually using Tomcat without deployment issues getting in the way. |
| 22:26.49 | jasonb | yoavs: Check this out: http://www.webdroid.org:8080/repo/viewcvs.cgi/ |
| 22:27.33 | jasonb | yoavs: That's my Tomcat RPM running, and hosting ViewCVS inside a webapp (via cgi).. and it's serving up my own server's subversion repository. |
| 22:27.44 | jasonb | yoavs: All without Apache httpd... purely serving from Tomcat. |
| 22:45.59 | yoavs | wow, that's pretty cool |
| 22:46.33 | jasonb | Yup.. python webapp code running from Tomcat. :) |
| 22:50.12 | yoavs | good stuff, you should blog about it (unless you're waiting to include it in the book) |
| 22:51.10 | jasonb | I'm not sure if I have time to cover the svn webapp in the book, although it would be nice. But, the RPM packaging helps all that along, which will be covered. |
| 22:51.33 | jasonb | I don't have a blog (don't really have time for it), or else I'd write about it so others could see. :) |
| 22:54.51 | yoavs | if it's alright with you, i'll blog about it |
| 22:54.58 | yoavs | but if you don't want that, no problem |
| 22:55.04 | yoavs | or if you want me to wait until after the book is published |
| 22:56.34 | jasonb | Nah, it's perfectly okay. |
| 22:56.57 | jasonb | I'd actually like people knowing that this works. |
| 22:57.35 | yoavs | cool |
| 22:57.40 | jasonb | I set it up so that people can get into my svn and get the RPM packaging files. |
| 22:57.43 | yoavs | how come all these ppl are hanging around without asking anything? |
| 22:57.58 | jasonb | They're mainly lurkers. :) |
| 22:58.31 | jasonb | They listen in, and probably think their question is too silly.. they should just ask. :) |
| 22:59.18 | jasonb | Also, some people read the IRC channel text like they read the dev list.. when they get the chance they scroll back and start reading. |
| 23:15.15 | jasonb | yoavs: What's the URL to your blog? |
| 23:15.33 | yoavs | yoavs.blogspot.com |
| 23:15.42 | jasonb | ahh, cool. Thanks. |
| 23:15.43 | yoavs | or yoavshapira.com/blog if you find that easier to remember |
| 23:28.35 | yoavs | later |
| 23:28.44 | *** part/#tomcat yoavs (n=yoavs@216.183.191.99) |