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| 00:24.04 | scott__ | I've got a question regarding using AJP/13 with Tomcat & Apache web server. Is anyone familiar with the Tomcat connector? |
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| 01:19.40 | jieryn | anyone familiar with deployment descriptors? i have something which is failing in tomcat-5.5 but appears correct from the xsd |
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| 01:52.47 | jieryn | why isn't <listener><listener-class>com.domain.servlets.WebAppInitializer</listener-class></listener> working?? :-/ |
| 01:52.53 | jieryn | inside my web.xml |
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| 02:04.35 | jasonb | jieryn: In what way isn't it working? |
| 02:05.32 | lyken | jasonb: man i gotta get out of this freakin country |
| 02:05.37 | lyken | our uni has blocked gmail/google |
| 02:05.41 | lyken | cause it uses too much bandwidth |
| 02:06.23 | jasonb | huh???? |
| 02:06.41 | jasonb | Like the people who blocked it don't also use it? |
| 02:06.48 | jasonb | That's a bit important to block.. |
| 02:06.59 | lyken | lol |
| 02:07.09 | lyken | Due to large downloads from google which have the potential to use all of |
| 02:07.09 | lyken | the school's remaining download quota for this year in a matter of weeks, |
| 02:07.09 | lyken | the ITIG has temporarily blocked access to gmail. |
| 02:07.13 | jasonb | That's sort of like blocking DNS because it uses too much bandwidth.. |
| 02:07.26 | lyken | lolz @ our povo network |
| 02:07.36 | jasonb | povo? |
| 02:07.42 | lyken | poverty |
| 02:08.03 | jasonb | I wonder why gmail bandwidth would be real high? M$ Word documents? |
| 02:08.09 | jasonb | I think either that or pictures. |
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| 02:09.06 | jasonb | "which have the potential to use..." |
| 02:09.09 | jasonb | heh |
| 02:09.18 | lyken | lol |
| 02:11.05 | jasonb | Why wouldn't they hunt down the biggest bandwidth offender individuals, and just sack *them*? :) |
| 02:11.20 | lyken | lol |
| 02:11.28 | lyken | dude we already have 100mb/day limits |
| 02:14.28 | jasonb | Or, why wouldn't they tell theit upstream provider to throttle properly only up to the real daily limit for the year, max? |
| 02:15.11 | jasonb | Then you could let people download all they want until they simply run out, and then that's the end.. |
| 02:15.11 | jasonb | (for the day) |
| 02:15.11 | lyken | internet for universities in australia is disgustingly expensive |
| 02:15.11 | lyken | its so bad |
| 02:15.11 | lyken | that we have commercial dsl lines in our server room |
| 02:15.20 | lyken | to pickup the slack |
| 02:23.05 | jieryn | jasonb: SEVERE: Error listenerStart |
| 02:23.11 | jieryn | jasonb: SEVERE: Context [] startup failed due to previous errors |
| 02:23.18 | lyken | jasonb: all video sites are blocked from the uni also |
| 02:24.17 | jasonb | lyken: Well, those use up lots of bandwidth, I'd bet. |
| 02:24.29 | lyken | yer |
| 02:24.36 | lyken | lol we dont even have a gnu software mirror |
| 02:24.43 | jasonb | jieryn: Are those the only log lines that hint that there is something unstartable about your listener? Your xml looks fine to me. |
| 02:25.22 | jieryn | yes, if i comment out the listener stuff, the app starts just fine |
| 02:25.37 | jieryn | the listener is used to set up some "global" variables |
| 02:25.55 | jasonb | jieryn: Then I'd say your listener class itself has a problem. |
| 02:26.06 | jieryn | i've tested it in eclipse on winxp |
| 02:26.10 | jieryn | seems to be working |
| 02:26.11 | jasonb | jieryn: Which version of the servlet API did you declare your webapp? |
| 02:26.19 | jieryn | that is a good question :) uhh |
| 02:26.32 | jieryn | j2ee 1.4 ? |
| 02:26.40 | jieryn | jre 1.5 |
| 02:27.05 | jasonb | Show us the top 2 lines of your web.xml. |
| 02:28.32 | jieryn | http://sh.nu/p/2984 |
| 02:28.34 | jasonb | web-app version="2.4" |
| 02:28.34 | jasonb | So it's a servlet API version 2.4 webapp. |
| 02:28.38 | jasonb | Under that version of the spec, your xml for the listener looks fine. |
| 02:28.42 | jieryn | forgive me, i am kind of new to this -- i depend a lot on eclipse templates |
| 02:29.05 | jasonb | You might want to read the Servlet 2.4 spec a bit then. Eclipse is often wrong. |
| 02:29.26 | jieryn | which is the most current? |
| 02:29.36 | jasonb | You should use that spec for reference information while you develop. |
| 02:29.42 | jieryn | which does tomcat 5.5.17 support? |
| 02:29.48 | jasonb | 2.5 is now the most current, but it is not much different than 2.4. 2.4 is fine. |
| 02:29.58 | jasonb | 5.5.x supports up to servlet 2.4. |
| 02:32.18 | jieryn | hm |
| 02:34.05 | jieryn | ok, the xsd seems to tell me that my deployment desc. is correct |
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| 04:01.53 | jmonstad | I know it's late, and all (or early).. But, does anyone have a good measure of how maxThreads on the connector affects memory usage? (ofcourse assuming that each processing thread isn't doing anything too outragous) |
| 04:03.14 | jmonstad | oh, btw.. hi! (sorry for not announcing myself) |
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| 04:19.00 | jmonstad | what I'm trying to find out, is at what point does the maxThreads paramter on the default http connector start to affect a 4GB of RAM box .. (only looking for peoples experience here) |
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| 04:25.48 | odin_ | how much of 4Gb can the JVM have, is the box a 64bit box? |
| 04:26.00 | odin_ | how many CPUs does the box have? |
| 04:29.22 | jmonstad | the box has 2 CPUs |
| 04:30.04 | odin_ | linux? win32? |
| 04:30.33 | jmonstad | the JVM *could* have 3G of ram. It's on windows, and so i don't think it's set for more than 1 g |
| 04:31.13 | odin_ | sorry done have expierence with high threads on win32 |
| 04:31.21 | odin_ | done=I dont |
| 04:32.00 | jmonstad | most don't.. I mostly know linux myself |
| 04:32.39 | odin_ | each thread eats up some stack space, I dont know what win32 uses for stack space per java thread |
| 04:32.43 | jmonstad | on windows, there's some concern about giving the JVM more than around 1.4G of RAM |
| 04:33.24 | odin_ | how much data does the application need ? its easy to get TC to eat 600Mb with just 10 threads |
| 04:33.25 | jmonstad | We haven't looking too closely into stack space, yet. Maybe we should |
| 04:34.34 | jmonstad | The client is requesting a file off the server that is then GZIPed by the app before sending it. The file size before zipping is 20 MB |
| 04:35.10 | odin_ | so if the app were to need 600Mb to run, and each thread wanted lets say 1Mb of stack, and you wanted to keep 400Mb headroom to allow apps to grow/shrink temporary storage, then 200 threads is the maximum for 1.4Gb |
| 04:35.38 | odin_ | but 1Mb of stack per thread I am making up, I dont know what windows uses or needs, you can also configure this value with a -X option |
| 04:36.28 | odin_ | but if you can open it up to 3Gb then a few 1000 should be fine |
| 04:37.45 | jmonstad | sounds reasonable |
| 04:38.04 | jmonstad | My problem (of course) is that the app is written by a vendor |
| 04:38.33 | odin_ | so then you have to test and evaluate under load |
| 04:38.46 | jmonstad | I know from experience that tomcat is rarely the problem, but there are questions in the org. about the choice of tomcat |
| 04:39.12 | jmonstad | I wish I could have before this thing went live |
| 04:39.52 | jmonstad | What I'm trying to determine is when and how many more servers we need |
| 04:40.43 | jmonstad | I know (given the load we're seeing right now) that we're not scaling well |
| 04:43.27 | jmonstad | right now we're seeing problems with maxThread at 150 and 250 clients (staggered) requesting the 20MB file. Final go-live will have 1500 clients. |
| 04:58.31 | odin_ | ok I was told TC caching in memory all static files |
| 04:58.58 | odin_ | do if you have a lot of broad content, infrequently accessed, thats a silly default arrangement |
| 05:00.19 | jmonstad | it's not the *same* 20M file.. |
| 05:01.01 | odin_ | yes, so if you have 100Gb of any files access infrequently then the default TC config is stupid |
| 05:01.21 | odin_ | since it will try to cache them all, and I dont think it releases, this is what Ive was told on this channel |
| 05:02.01 | odin_ | it does not matter if they are 20Mb files ot 20 byte files, if you have 100Gb and it attempts to cache in memory without any LRU or release mechanism your gonna get problems |
| 05:02.11 | jmonstad | hmmm... |
| 05:02.22 | jmonstad | I have problems :-) |
| 05:02.32 | odin_ | I know it caches all JSPs in memory without releasing |
| 05:02.56 | odin_ | bit I wasn't aware defaultServlet did it for static content too, but I checked the source and it looks like it does |
| 05:03.05 | jmonstad | although it shouldn't cache the entire request |
| 05:03.24 | jmonstad | it's not static content |
| 05:03.55 | jmonstad | the servlet does a "new File(my20Mfile)" for each request |
| 05:04.24 | jmonstad | (which is stupid, I know) |
| 05:06.53 | odin_ | no its the contents I'm referring to |
| 05:07.03 | odin_ | it reads the 20Mb into a buffer and keeps it in memor |
| 05:10.12 | jmonstad | i'd think that the thread would release it once the thread returns to the threadpool (if not, we'd run out of memory *very* quickly, which we don't see..) |
| 05:11.55 | jmonstad | It seems more like an issue of too many threads needing memory/resources at the same time (within 2-15 min) |
| 05:12.37 | jasonb | [root@netninja apache-tomcat-5.5.15-src]# find . -name "*LRU*.java" |
| 05:12.37 | jasonb | ./connectors/util/java/org/apache/tomcat/util/collections/LRUCache.java |
| 05:13.04 | jasonb | The JSPs themselves are another story. |
| 05:13.25 | jasonb | There are some settings to tune buffer sizes for JSPs.. |
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| 05:16.35 | jmonstad | The http request are mapped (via the web.xml) directly to the servlet, so the defaultServlet is not involved, and therefore JSP's are also not involved ( as far as my understanding goes) |
| 05:17.51 | jasonb | Yeah, if you're not actually serving JSPs, then you don't need to worry about how Tomcat's JSP implementation works. |
| 05:17.56 | odin_ | jasonb: what does the find prove ? There is an LRUCache class that exists, nicked from a repackaged collection class within the connectors module ? How does that prove the LRUCache class is used anywhere, how does that prove it has any relation to the defaultServlet ? |
| 05:19.33 | odin_ | but TC _ONLY_ runs "Servlets", while you may have no application provided custom servlets, the defaultServlet within TC still exists, and is what is always used to serve static content, otherwise you'd get back a 404 |
| 05:19.50 | jmonstad | he has a point in that there is some caching and buffering of JSP content. In my case, I don't have JSPs to worry about |
| 05:20.14 | jasonb | odin_: From my memory (going pretty far back, and no recent investigation to remember), I read the source and found that Tomcat has a clever caching mechanism. Lots of content is in RAM so it can serve fast, which is good, and also that some of it doesn't stay in cache.. I'm guessing there's an LRUCache used, so I did a find for that class, and it's in there.. but yeah, from my greps just now it looks to not be used in Tomca |
| 05:20.15 | jasonb | t. |
| 05:21.09 | odin_ | JSPs are a different matter, they are never shutdown based on LRU usage, only when a container/web-app is shutdown is the servlet stopped |
| 05:21.12 | jasonb | So if it isn't that particular LRU cache, it's some sort of cache where the content doesn't just stay in RAM forever. |
| 05:21.37 | jasonb | Right. That's a worse problem right now in Tomcat. |
| 05:21.39 | odin_ | but its static content caching in the defaultServlet which I wasn't aware of myself until you said TC did that |
| 05:21.56 | jasonb | There was a discussion recently on that on the tomcat-dev mailing list when some users pointed out that this doesn't work for them. |
| 05:22.24 | jmonstad | the call my clients are doing lookins something line /myapp/download which is mapped to a com.mycorp.DownloadServlet |
| 05:23.22 | jmonstad | Which shouldn't involve the DefaultServlet |
| 05:23.27 | jasonb | It wouldn't. |
| 05:23.54 | jasonb | So, however your DownloadServlet handles the files, that's it. |
| 05:26.17 | jmonstad | yep. But the original question revolves around how TC handles the thread once it's finshed (either after it completes, or if the client terminates it's request for some reason) |
| 05:26.43 | jasonb | The JSP caching situation is interesting (this doesn't apply to you, jmonstad).. When JSPs are compiled, the compiled JSP servlet class is instantiated and pooled by default for performance reasons. Then, since there is a pool of them, it's takes up memory of a size many times that of a single instance. All of the text of the JSP body is included in RAM, one copy per instance. :) |
| 05:27.10 | jmonstad | (well, the original question was more along the lines of how much memory each thread takes, but it's all related) |
| 05:27.21 | jasonb | So for people who have huge JSP files with lots of static text in them, all that goes into RAM, times the number of instances that Tomcat puts in the pool. And, until recent versions of Tomcat you couldn't turn the pooling off. |
| 05:27.51 | jasonb | jmonstad: For the startup RAM size of each thread that's a JVM startup switch setting. |
| 05:28.47 | jmonstad | JSP's do concern my, but in a differnt problem ;-) |
| 05:29.02 | jasonb | jmonstad: But, yes, Tomcat's code also takes up some RAM per thread. It's actually not much, I believe.. but if you want to set yours to like 600 threads, it is likely significant. There aren't any pages/books about that I don't think, and even if there were, I wouldn't trust them since that gets out of date when the implementation changes. |
| 05:30.37 | jasonb | jmonstad: I suggest you try it on your machine. Try a low number of threads first, then wait for Tomcat to start up and record how much memory the JVM is using above and beyond where you set the max heap (and set min heap to the same as max heap!). Then, bump the number of threads up to like several hundred more and do the same thing.. |
| 05:31.00 | jmonstad | jasonb: What I haven't seen anywhere on the intranets, is what the threadpool size is set to when people run benchmarks with 500 hits/pr secon |
| 05:31.19 | jasonb | jmonstad: Record the amount of RAM it's using above the max heap setting again, then take the difference between that and the same measurement with a low number of threads, then divide by the difference in threads, and that will be the amount of RAM it takes up per thread. |
| 05:32.15 | jasonb | jmonstad: There are very few decent benchmarks shown on the web. Most of them, like you said, hide the critical details. |
| 05:33.44 | jmonstad | I'd love to be able to replicate our issues in a noproduction environment, but we're only starting to see this when roughly 100 - 150 clients across the WAN are hitting the server at the same time |
| 05:35.21 | jmonstad | until then, there's no issues. I'd have to add that on the Win 2003 server that TC is running, it appears that TC dies and restarts at some point in the process |
| 05:37.03 | jmonstad | we're still investigating, but so far, there's no indication of a restart, except for the WIN event log, and the fact that the server logs are rotated and restarted (no stacktraces/errors) |
| 05:42.50 | jmonstad | well, I need to go sleep. I thank you all for the help and thoughts & options you have to offer. I have a feeling I'll be back tomorrow... odin_: Som den vise sier etter flere oell, god natt. |
| 05:44.32 | jasonb | You're welcome. |
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| 05:50.23 | odin_ | I wonder what he said to me? |
| 05:51.57 | odin_ | I guess it must have been scandanavian, babelfish dont support it, heh |
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| 08:14.19 | yassinework | morning * |
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| 09:43.12 | yassinework | harpoon, moin * |
| 09:43.19 | yassinework | oxblood, heya |
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| 10:15.32 | cloudguitar | Hi! I would run Tomcat 5 on a Pentium MMX 200MHz with 200+MB RAM running Linux or NetBSD, is it much too slow for the purpose? |
| 10:16.26 | harpoon | moin yassinework |
| 10:16.41 | harpoon | enough java and tomcat for this week |
| 10:16.56 | yassinework | really ? |
| 10:17.01 | harpoon | really :-) |
| 10:17.12 | harpoon | i am off :-) |
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| 11:52.45 | jieryn | cloudguitar_: i have run tomcat-5.0.x on a Pentium 3 @ 600 Mhz with 256Mb of ram without too much problem |
| 11:53.01 | jieryn | cloudguitar_: it really depends on what webapps you deploy |
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| 12:03.17 | yassinework | hi jieryn |
| 12:03.59 | yassinework | cloudguitar_, one question about your distro ( how is java support on it ?) like freeBSD ? |
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| 12:34.13 | jieryn | yassinework: :) |
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| 13:07.26 | yassinework | wb kasbah |
| 13:07.45 | kasbah | hmm |
| 13:08.06 | kasbah | watching toshiba press conference at ifa 2006 atm |
| 13:08.34 | harpoon | kasbah: why do you do something like that?!? |
| 13:08.37 | harpoon | :-) |
| 13:09.35 | kasbah | harpoon: because i'm working for an online mag |
| 13:10.07 | harpoon | ah ok... :-) |
| 13:11.32 | yassinework | kasbah, which mag ? |
| 13:11.52 | kasbah | winfuture.de |
| 13:12.22 | yassinework | mhh not really related to Open Source ? |
| 13:12.35 | kasbah | lol, nope, related to microsoft |
| 13:12.45 | yassinework | yup |
| 13:13.21 | harpoon | microsoft is evil |
| 13:13.49 | a4akb | microsoft is unique :p nothin like it |
| 13:13.52 | yassinework | evil is corrupt :) |
| 13:14.08 | a4akb | unique is politically correct word |
| 13:14.12 | harpoon | a4akb: thanks the gods for this |
| 13:14.13 | a4akb | ;) |
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| 13:15.07 | harpoon | another company with such it-products and policy and it just was once :-) |
| 13:15.07 | a4akb | we should give some credit to microsoft, if it werent to the innovative yet greedy practices by m$, the OSS community would not have been as active as it is right now. so well done M$ keep up the dood work :P |
| 13:17.40 | a4akb | :) |
| 13:19.36 | harpoon | why i should give microsoft some credit? this company has much more money then me :-) |
| 13:19.43 | a4akb | lol |
| 13:22.28 | jieryn | where should i put .java files for tomcat to compile for webapps? |
| 13:24.12 | harpoon | anywhere you want to have them |
| 13:24.46 | a4akb | good answer harpoon |
| 13:24.53 | harpoon | just the .class files should be placed in $webapp/WEB-INF/classes |
| 13:25.34 | harpoon | a4akb: well every other answer would be a religous one |
| 13:25.47 | jieryn | heh |
| 13:25.57 | jieryn | ok - well, i have my source code inside a SVN repo |
| 13:26.05 | jieryn | i currently have an .svnignore on .class |
| 13:26.21 | harpoon | me to :-) |
| 13:26.22 | jieryn | i was hoping i could just checkout the entire webapp, sans class files, and have tomcat compile them into its workdir or something |
| 13:26.33 | jieryn | during tomcat's startup |
| 13:26.38 | harpoon | tomcat do nothing with them |
| 13:26.52 | harpoon | tomcat is only the runtime environment |
| 13:27.21 | jieryn | so, when you want to deploy from your trunk.. what do you do? i have many vhosts i have to manage, and i don't want to type commands.. i'm stupid often |
| 13:27.25 | harpoon | you need the java-compiler you prefer for build them |
| 13:27.36 | jieryn | automation..? |
| 13:27.49 | harpoon | an ant or a maven script would help to automise them |
| 13:28.13 | jieryn | ok, shiny |
| 13:28.45 | harpoon | maven with it's aditional server component even checks out the newest code from repository |
| 13:28.52 | harpoon | bevor building them |
| 13:30.20 | jieryn | i'd prefer not to do that far, i'm on gentoo |
| 13:31.17 | harpoon | jieryn: there is ant available for gentoo to ;-) |
| 13:31.43 | harpoon | it is another java-aplication by the same vendor as tomcat |
| 13:32.07 | jieryn | yes, i'm well aware :) |
| 13:32.46 | jieryn | i just expanded a .war and see that it has only bytecode, so, seems it was never doing extra work anyhow |
| 13:34.22 | harpoon | jieryn: even the war has to be created |
| 13:35.38 | harpoon | ant do this with the <war> task, by hand you have to compile your code, build up a directory-structure in the way it is descriped in the JSR |
| 13:35.52 | harpoon | and then have to user the jar tool |
| 13:37.55 | jieryn | i use eclipse |
| 13:38.55 | harpoon | me too |
| 13:38.57 | harpoon | :-) |
| 13:39.43 | kasbah | which xml-rpc implementation should i use? |
| 13:40.34 | kasbah | http://ws.apache.org/xmlrpc/ <- this one? |
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| 13:46.30 | rarman1 | I have a heap error: 512 MB - any ideas? |
| 13:49.27 | jieryn | harpoon: can you pastebin your build.xml ? :) |
| 13:49.48 | harpoon | jieryn: negativ |
| 13:50.08 | harpoon | i have it at work an no access to it |
| 13:51.07 | harpoon | on the other side, i let eclipse build my projects (the sysdeo plugin is a great help) and use my build.xml just to deploy app |
| 13:52.17 | harpoon | i cannot use war-files in a gridsphere portlet project because the support is... |
| 13:52.20 | harpoon | lousy |
| 13:52.21 | harpoon | :-) |
| 13:52.40 | jieryn | i'm trying to move away from .war |
| 13:53.53 | harpoon | jieryn: web application repositories (war) are a nice thing |
| 13:54.08 | harpoon | if the container supports them |
| 13:54.41 | jieryn | for this project, prefer people build it themselves |
| 13:55.04 | harpoon | gridsphere just support an interface for them in the manager-app, but without any function :-) |
| 13:55.45 | harpoon | well... to write a build-script from scratch is quite hard... |
| 13:55.55 | jieryn | ........ |
| 13:56.02 | jieryn | which is why i asked ;) |
| 13:56.50 | harpoon | sorry ... but my "build-script" is quite simple |
| 13:57.44 | jieryn | i think that is all i need really |
| 13:57.48 | harpoon | it just copy all the class, lib, xml, properties, jsp and so on files to where they have to place |
| 13:58.19 | harpoon | related on a gridsphere environment, not simple a tomcat :-) |
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| 15:08.05 | cloudguitar_ | _yassinework I haven't put any distro in my "server". I can put on whatever I want, I thought to use Trustix (RedHat Linux) |
| 15:09.17 | cloudguitar_ | _yassinework could you suggest me something cool? Thanks (anyway :-) ) |
| 15:09.42 | yassinework | cloudguitar_, debian ? |
| 15:10.34 | cloudguitar_ | yassinework_ well, if it could work... thanks! |
| 15:12.17 | yassinework | cloudguitar_, you are not going to use any wm ? |
| 15:14.59 | cloudguitar_ | yassinework_ I have to build up a network as a school homework: I have a router, a firewall, a server and my computer (Athlon XP with Fedora 4). I can do it the way I like |
| 15:15.21 | yassinework | yeah good luck |
| 15:16.43 | cloudguitar_ | yassinework_ oh, thank you. Have you any soggestion to give me :-) ? |
| 15:17.10 | yassinework | i would but right now im about to have a meeting so maybe tonight like in 6 hours |
| 15:18.14 | cloudguitar_ | yassinework_ thanks again and good work! |
| 15:18.28 | yassinework | yup |
| 15:18.32 | yassinework | im out |
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| 16:46.24 | lintlock | sigh |
| 16:46.38 | lintlock | 2 weeks of struggling and i didnt even have the right tomcat |
| 16:50.10 | cloudguitar_ | bye |
| 16:53.32 | piclez41 | hi, anybody could help me? I need to get rid of showing port :8080 in my url and :8443 |
| 16:54.51 | lintlock | interesting id like to hear this as well |
| 16:56.58 | piclez41 | lintlock ;) hehe |
| 16:57.28 | lintlock | accually its done for my tomcat site, but it was handled for me |
| 16:57.32 | lintlock | and i think its a DNS issue |
| 17:00.14 | piclez41 | nhmm |
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| 17:02.27 | lintlock | all i know is (95%) its not handled by tomcat |
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| 17:31.36 | columbo | piclez41: for linux you can drop the incoming packets using iptables |
| 17:33.21 | columbo | somthing like iptables -A INPUT -d theIP --dport 8080 -j DROP |
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| 18:06.08 | jmonstad | I'm struggling a bit with the difference and implications of setting the maxThread param on the http connector and how it interacts with the acceptCount param |
| 18:06.42 | jasonb | acceptCount is the server socket accept queue. |
| 18:06.57 | jmonstad | maxThreads, as the docs say, "determines the maximum number of simultaneous requests that can be handled" |
| 18:07.29 | jasonb | The threads are in a thread pool. |
| 18:07.29 | jmonstad | is there a recommended ratio between the two |
| 18:07.53 | jmonstad | say, if I have 200 maxThreads, should acceptCount be 200 / x ? |
| 18:08.33 | jasonb | The pool is populated with minSpareThreads threads first. |
| 18:08.38 | jasonb | Then Tomcat starts serving requests. |
| 18:09.03 | jasonb | If it finds that all threads are being used, it starts to create more threads and add them to the pool (*while* trying to serve requests.. sometimes that's a bad idea). |
| 18:10.05 | jasonb | It will create more threads for the thread pool up to the maxThreads limit. |
| 18:10.19 | jasonb | Once it reaches maxThreads, that's as many as it will create, regardless of the traffic load. |
| 18:10.44 | jasonb | Whenever the load decreases, Tomcat tries to determine if it still needs as many threads as it has instantiated and running. |
| 18:11.01 | jasonb | If it knows it doesn't need them all, it ends some threads to decrease the count in the pool. |
| 18:11.40 | jasonb | It will decrease them until it reaches the lower bound of minSpareThreads again. |
| 18:12.33 | jasonb | It can keep going up and down like that, creating and then ending threads while serving requests, as long as there is diff between minSpareThreads and maxThreads. |
| 18:12.50 | jmonstad | when maxThreads is reached, will the client get a "connection refused"? |
| 18:13.17 | jasonb | So, on busy servers where you already know that you'll usually want it to hang out at maxThreads, you should set minSpareThreads and maxThreads to the same value so that it never spends CPU time going up and down with the thread count. |
| 18:13.36 | *** join/#tomcat caverdude (n=javacave@dpc6746145019.direcpc.com) |
| 18:13.57 | jasonb | No, it will only give a client a connection refused message if the accept queue is smaller than the number of waiting incoming client socket connections that have not yet been assigned a thread from the thread pool. |
| 18:14.20 | caverdude | hello |
| 18:14.25 | caverdude | can tomcat do vhosting? |
| 18:14.28 | jasonb | The client sockets sit in the accept queue waiting for a thread. Once one is free in the thread pool, it is taken out of the accept queue and assigned the thread. |
| 18:14.32 | jasonb | caverdude: Yes. |
| 18:14.51 | caverdude | how hard is it to setup tomcat with the regular apache web server? |
| 18:15.09 | jasonb | But, if there are no threads available in the pool to assign to the client socket, the client sockets stack up in the accept queue, waiting. |
| 18:15.26 | caverdude | hrm ok |
| 18:15.34 | jasonb | If too many stack up in there, you'll exceed your acceptCount value, and the very next request socket will get a connection refused message. |
| 18:15.50 | caverdude | what does that mean for the client trying to access one site or another? |
| 18:15.56 | caverdude | from the clients point of view? |
| 18:16.03 | jasonb | So, it's generally a good idea to set the queue size larger, and then make sure that they never stack up that high in the queue by making sure there are enough threads to handle the load. |
| 18:16.31 | jmonstad | so setting the acceptCount fairly high, may cause the client to see "slow response times", but would help ensure that they get their request fulfilled |
| 18:16.44 | caverdude | ok |
| 18:16.59 | jasonb | Actually, setting the accept queue high doesn't really impact how slow response times are. |
| 18:17.10 | jasonb | It's how available request processor threads are. |
| 18:17.24 | caverdude | I'm thinking of running several domains on a single running instance of tomcat, they should not get heavy traffic |
| 18:17.35 | jasonb | I don't actually know good reasons for setting the accept queue size low. :) |
| 18:18.19 | jmonstad | right. The requests take a *long* time with our app. Right now we have maxThreads at 150, acceptCount at 100 |
| 18:18.53 | caverdude | long meaning? seconds? minutes? |
| 18:19.10 | jasonb | I guess setting accept count lower will have the effect of intentionally "spilling" some of the traffic off of your server so it won't be so crushed under the load.. but most people find it unacceptable for a web site to give a connection refused message. :) |
| 18:19.41 | jmonstad | it's sending about 15-20MB of data to the client. Appears to be taking about 40-200 seconds |
| 18:19.45 | jasonb | jmonstad: I'd set the accept count higher. IIRC the limit is 255? Or something like that. I'd set it to 200. You have nothing to lose. |
| 18:20.28 | jmonstad | will do. It also sounds like the minSpareThreads param could be close to the maxThreads |
| 18:21.21 | jmonstad | at least 150 clients will hit the server at the exact same time, and there's no reason to waste resources creating new threads |
| 18:21.46 | jasonb | Right. |
| 18:21.50 | *** join/#tomcat IRCMonkey (n=chatzill@janustw.tavve.com) |
| 18:21.52 | jasonb | That just makes performance worse. |
| 18:22.17 | jasonb | Same with the JVM memory settings -Xmx and -Xms.. make the exactly the same number so that it never needs to change. |
| 18:24.19 | *** part/#tomcat vinse (n=vinse@208.253.223.146) |
| 18:26.46 | jmonstad | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:27.56 | jmonstad | on a general note.. Any Tomcat guru's on this channel local to minneapolis? |
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| 18:30.43 | jasonb | jmonstad: You're welcome. I think I documented some of this in the O'Reilly Tomcat book (first edition, so far). |
| 18:31.13 | jasonb | jmonstad: Other than that, you're not likely to find much info about it anywhere except on the tomcat-dev mailing list, and even then it may not be easily readable. |
| 18:31.34 | jmonstad | will definitively need to get that one. I'm not even the server admin. |
| 18:32.34 | jasonb | It's somewhat outdated now, but I'm updating it, and the second edition will be out early '07. |
| 18:32.46 | jasonb | Lots of the explanatory text in there still does apply though. |
| 18:33.01 | jmonstad | Like I alluded to above, I'm also willing to get my company to spend some money on getting training and possible some consulting |
| 18:33.51 | jasonb | If you hang out in this channel, and ask periodically, I'm sure there are people who could help with that. |
| 18:34.12 | jmonstad | I'd think so.. :-) |
| 18:36.24 | jmonstad | opensource & free help is great, but I think companies need to contribute back. If not with code/bug fixes, etc, then at least they should try to spend some cash for consultinh/training/support, etc whenever they can. |
| 18:38.31 | jasonb | It does help. |
| 18:38.37 | jmonstad | buying your book is the very least i can do right now (and we really should have it anyway :-) ) |
| 18:39.39 | jasonb | The book really isn't that expensive, and it's packed with zillions of answers that you'd otherwise have to spend your time ( = money!) searching for the answers. |
| 18:40.00 | jmonstad | yep. |
| 18:40.05 | jmonstad | gotta run... thanks again for your help jasonb... |
| 18:40.07 | jasonb | The book has lots of plain english text about how things work. |
| 18:40.12 | jasonb | Okay, you're welcome. |
| 18:40.16 | jasonb | See ya. |
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| 19:31.32 | kirkt | hey ppl how do i enable tomcat to reload modified servlets instead of restarting it after each compile ? |
| 19:32.06 | kasbah | kirkt: use the /manager |
| 19:32.37 | kirkt | i think i dont have that installed or sth |
| 19:32.41 | randrewj | is it possible to get any kind of process dump from an unresponsive java process on windows? |
| 19:33.06 | kasbah | kirkt: go to tomcat.apache.org and download the manager application |
| 19:34.02 | kirkt | ok |
| 19:35.07 | kirkt | "administration web application" ? |
| 19:35.32 | kasbah | jo |
| 20:03.05 | lintlock | jasonb are you still there? |
| 20:03.10 | lintlock | i just need to know whats a good maxthread number |
| 20:03.37 | kasbah | lintlock: this depends on your hardware/load |
| 20:04.05 | lintlock | hummm i am having a stress test on wednesday of a server |
| 20:04.27 | jasonb | I wrote about this in the book.. |
| 20:04.38 | jasonb | There's no good number to suggest to people for max threads. |
| 20:04.47 | lintlock | about 18 users using our site and i want to see a node |
| 20:05.14 | jasonb | The optimal number for your machine, your webapp, your version of Tomcat, your JVM brand & version, your OS, your hardware, would be based on a number of factors. |
| 20:05.26 | lintlock | hummm |
| 20:05.55 | lintlock | omg what a crappy server |
| 20:06.05 | lintlock | we need more memory only 512megs |
| 20:06.05 | jasonb | The easiest way to arrive at the best number is to test, change the value, test again, compare, change the value, test again, compare again, etc. |
| 20:06.20 | lintlock | ewwww |
| 20:06.27 | jasonb | Yup. |
| 20:06.33 | jasonb | It should really be done by software, in reality. |
| 20:06.36 | lintlock | 2.39gig procession xeon |
| 20:06.42 | lintlock | processor |
| 20:06.47 | lintlock | 512megs |
| 20:07.01 | lintlock | this makes me want to cry |
| 20:07.10 | jasonb | Yeah. |
| 20:07.29 | jasonb | It's bad that just about everyone has no easy way to set that value optimally. |
| 20:07.43 | lintlock | 512 megs of memory on a freaking server |
| 20:07.53 | kasbah | that's a joke :P |
| 20:08.27 | jasonb | Yeah 512M is looking mighty small these days. |
| 20:09.19 | lintlock | im about to "ninja" 1.5 more gigs onto it |
| 20:09.54 | lintlock | i refuse to stress test a server running a java application with only 512 |
| 20:12.05 | lintlock | bbiab |
| 20:12.35 | kasbah | heh, even my notebook has 2gigs of ram :P |
| 20:12.44 | kasbah | os[Linux 2.6.17.7-thinkd-kasbah - Debian testing/unstable] up[ 4 days, 22 hours, 22 minutes] cpu[Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1600MHz, 1600.000 MHz (3199.56 bogomips)] mem[ 361.59/2027.49 MB (17.8%)] video[ at 1400x1050 (24 bits)] |
| 20:17.07 | jasonb | My laptop is an HP running FC5 Linux 2.6.16.9 on an AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile ML-40 2.2Ghz [bogomips: 4398.12!] |
| 20:17.11 | jasonb | 2G RAM. |
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| 20:17.59 | kasbah | well, as java developer one can't have enough ram |
| 20:18.16 | jasonb | heh |
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| 21:03.32 | *** join/#tomcat russt (n=rusty@c-71-56-239-132.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:04.15 | russt | I'm trying to set up a security constraint, and what I'd like to be able to do is something like, "All of these items are protected except...". Is that possible? |
| 21:06.28 | jasonb | Nope! |
| 21:06.42 | russt | jasonb, hm - ok thank you |
| 21:06.43 | jasonb | Sun decided you don't need to be able to do that. :) |
| 21:06.58 | russt | Thanks Sun!!! |
| 21:07.21 | jasonb | heh |
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| 21:38.38 | lintlock | sigh |
| 21:38.47 | lintlock | i ran out of memory :( |
| 21:39.03 | lintlock | when i have low ammounts of memory whats the best thing i can do? |
| 21:42.28 | lintlock | i just read that tomcat starts with only using 64megs of memory |
| 21:42.32 | lintlock | how do i change this |
| 21:42.38 | lintlock | if im only running tomcat.bat |
| 21:44.16 | russt | http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-5.5-doc/windows-service-howto.html |
| 21:44.27 | russt | maybe that will help |
| 21:45.55 | lintlock | ok ty |
| 21:46.00 | russt | np |
| 21:47.51 | yel | oxblood, heya |
| 21:47.54 | yel | lintlock, |
| 21:51.38 | lintlock | yo |
| 21:51.45 | a4akb | alo peeps |
| 21:51.50 | a4akb | how do i set up tomcat relams |
| 21:51.54 | lintlock | i just installed the tomcat5w.exe thing |
| 21:52.03 | a4akb | like setting password for a page using tomcat? |
| 21:52.08 | lintlock | i just hit stress ill tell you afteri calm down |
| 21:52.28 | lintlock | and its located in your conf/server.xml |
| 21:52.45 | yassine | a4akb, sa :) |
| 21:53.08 | a4akb | ws |
| 21:53.11 | a4akb | yassine: help me |
| 21:53.19 | a4akb | how do i set up a username n password using tomcat to a page/app |
| 21:54.17 | yassine | a4akb, in the web.xml of the app |
| 21:54.29 | a4akb | how |
| 21:54.55 | kasbah | a4akb: http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-5.5-doc/realm-howto.html |
| 21:55.18 | yassine | heya kasbah |
| 21:55.25 | a4akb | ty kasbah if i had the time to read i wouldnt ask here :P~ |
| 21:55.27 | kasbah | g'eve |
| 21:55.56 | kasbah | a4akb: if i had the time to explain, i wouldn't post this link :P |
| 21:56.05 | a4akb | lol |
| 21:56.20 | kasbah | yeah, wtf? rtfm! |
| 21:56.34 | yassine | slow motion |
| 21:58.00 | a4akb | sweet |
| 22:06.27 | lintlock | ok |
| 22:08.23 | lintlock | maxThreads="150" minSpareThreads="25" maxSpareThreads="75" enableLookups="false" redirectPort="8443" acceptCount="100" connectionTimeout="20000" disableUploadTimeout="true" /> |
| 22:11.00 | yassine | lintlock, whats wrong today ? |
| 22:12.49 | lintlock | ran out of memory |
| 22:13.05 | lintlock | fixed that then i checked the task manager |
| 22:13.19 | lintlock | our app per use takes up 50megs of memory on the server perload |
| 22:13.33 | yassine | sounds resonable |
| 22:14.23 | lintlock | see once it loads that it doesnt go back to normal |
| 22:14.33 | lintlock | it doesnt unload that information |
| 22:15.37 | lintlock | i need to optimize that line of code that was mentioned above |
| 22:23.45 | lintlock | ok |
| 22:24.04 | lintlock | found a good site for optimizing and explaination of each attribute |
| 22:24.28 | yassine | lintlock, point us there :) |
| 22:29.10 | *** join/#tomcat a4ak1 (n=Akbara@221.134.208.33) |
| 22:30.10 | lintlock | ok |
| 22:30.19 | lintlock | http://today.java.net/lpt/a/294 |
| 22:30.36 | lintlock | its very very good and explained all those tags |
| 22:30.48 | lintlock | that i previously showed |
| 22:37.25 | lintlock | hummm after changing those values and optimizing my work i was able to speed up my tomcat site |
| 22:37.45 | lintlock | now i loaded an application and it didnt use as much memory |
| 22:39.30 | lintlock | shoooo |
| 22:41.09 | lintlock | fortunatly i will be able to stress test on wednesday |
| 22:42.01 | yassine | let me see |
| 22:43.15 | yassine | lintlock, bookmarked thanks |
| 22:44.17 | lintlock | np |
| 22:51.10 | lintlock | oh man cutting down on idle threads is making my apps and everything run smooth |
| 23:06.44 | lintlock | hummm im going through task manager and looking at the threads that the application is using and its staying consistant with about 29 active threads |
| 23:07.48 | lintlock | i wonder what will happen if i drop the active threads |
| 23:13.15 | lintlock | i think ive scared away yassine and jasonb |
| 23:13.20 | lintlock | and a few others |
| 23:15.42 | lintlock | lol |
| 23:16.46 | yassine | :) lintlock im just a bit busy |
| 23:23.01 | lintlock | i understand as am i |
| 23:23.12 | lintlock | i prob wont be going home for another 1.5 hours |
| 23:23.45 | lintlock | ive been looking at code for about 12 straight hours, I think someone is going to have to die now |
| 23:24.48 | oxblood | Is that a job related project? |
| 23:24.56 | yassine | lintlock, you think your losing performence because of your code ? |
| 23:25.05 | yassine | oxblood, hi |
| 23:25.06 | oxblood | I'm so tired today. |
| 23:25.09 | oxblood | yassine, Hi. |
| 23:25.46 | yassine | oxblood, here you are : http://tomcat.anfatech.com/cocoon/tomcat/48/52.html?branch=1&language=1 |
| 23:26.00 | oxblood | I probably delt with 20 contractors today -- everybody wanted a check but we don't have more than $80k on the account. |
| 23:26.25 | yassine | btw |
| 23:26.28 | lintlock | its not that |
| 23:26.47 | lintlock | it seems there are too many idol threads in the background of tomcat |
| 23:26.48 | oxblood | Yes, I checked it out this morning. Why are the web.xml snipets not highlighted. |
| 23:27.09 | yassine | you mean syntax higlight ? |
| 23:27.10 | oxblood | Not that I mind just curious whether daisy makes it like that automatically. |
| 23:27.17 | oxblood | Yes. |
| 23:27.58 | yassine | no its not supported but im thinking about implementing it as soon as i have solve my issues with my actuall work |
| 23:28.22 | oxblood | Hah, ok. I don't think I covered all the possible topics with error-page. |
| 23:28.49 | oxblood | I just went through the servlet 2.4 specifications and tried different statements. |
| 23:29.06 | yassine | aha we can update that if you have some news |
| 23:29.29 | oxblood | Ya, sure. But I think I'm sick of deployment descriptor for now. :) |
| 23:30.03 | oxblood | Some advanced declaratives are way too complicated for my little brain. |
| 23:30.46 | lintlock | if you guys dont midn me asking what are you all refering too |
| 23:30.50 | oxblood | And since I've never worked with EJB's, a lot of tags have to be reviewed later on... If I was alive. |
| 23:30.51 | lintlock | midn = mind |
| 23:32.04 | oxblood | lintlock, Some lame a$$ error-page tutorial I wrote. |
| 23:32.30 | yassine | lintlock, oxblood is helping me with some tutorials he wrote and provided on my tut collection page |
| 23:32.45 | oxblood | yassine, Why are you looking for a new job? |
| 23:33.42 | lintlock | coo |
| 23:33.58 | lintlock | i need to write a tutorial on SSO |
| 23:34.02 | lintlock | ive seen everything |
| 23:34.02 | yassine | oxblood, i had abad discution with my boss today |
| 23:34.04 | lintlock | lol |
| 23:34.17 | lintlock | every moronic problem has happened to me |
| 23:34.23 | yassine | lintlock, do that please so i can provide that |
| 23:34.34 | oxblood | yassine, What does he want? |
| 23:34.35 | lintlock | sure i will try to once i have the cahnce |
| 23:35.33 | yassine | oxblood, well its me who wanted some more money (since i will be soon a father) and since im working like getting half payed since i started here |
| 23:35.58 | oxblood | yassine, Is this a start-up company? |
| 23:36.09 | oxblood | Oh wait!!! Did you say you gotta be a father. :```````````````````````````) |
| 23:36.19 | oxblood | s/gotta/gonna |
| 23:36.46 | lintlock | oh snap |
| 23:36.50 | lintlock | congratz yassine |
| 23:36.57 | yassine | oxblood, yes i will be soon :) |
| 23:37.01 | lintlock | wait another yassine.... |
| 23:37.06 | yassine | lintlock, thanks you |
| 23:37.14 | lintlock | :) |
| 23:37.30 | oxblood | OMFG! Congratulations. |
| 23:37.37 | lintlock | if hes anything like you, hes going to be in college at the age of 10 |
| 23:37.42 | oxblood | You know it's a boy or a girl???? |
| 23:38.17 | yassine | its a boy |
| 23:38.19 | yassine | :) |
| 23:38.32 | oxblood | WOW! I would love to have a little girl someday but doubt that ever happen so I'm counting on my sister to give me a niece. |
| 23:38.43 | oxblood | Then I'll move to her area baby sitting everyday, all day. |
| 23:39.13 | yassine | yeah its a nice thing |
| 23:39.19 | lintlock | if i have a girl |
| 23:39.21 | lintlock | its over |
| 23:39.24 | oxblood | When are you guys expecting? |
| 23:39.27 | lintlock | ill be her bitch |
| 23:39.30 | yassine | well i still dont really know how its since it will be v 1.0 |
| 23:39.42 | lintlock | she will be like daddy do this and ill say "ok sweety" |
| 23:39.45 | yassine | expected for the 25.12.2006 |
| 23:39.57 | lintlock | Christmas baby cool |
| 23:39.57 | oxblood | Hah, on a xmas day???? |
| 23:40.08 | yassine | yeah thats what they said :) |
| 23:40.46 | oxblood | Wow, what else you can ask for. Birthday + xmas + newyear although I know you aint Christian. |
| 23:40.54 | oxblood | Ok, I gotta eat now. Be back in 30 mins. |
| 23:41.10 | yassine | yup have a nice meal :) |
| 23:45.42 | lintlock | hes totally going to eat his hand |
| 23:46.33 | yassine | :) |
| 23:48.15 | *** join/#tomcat bdudney (n=bdudney@c-67-190-156-58.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 23:49.37 | lintlock | im testing the server running tomcat5.exe and tomcat5w.exe |
| 23:49.44 | lintlock | and seeing if this will make a difference |
| 23:55.07 | oxblood | yassine, How is it that you are expecting a baby but stay up late most of the times? :) |
| 23:55.30 | yassine | :) |
| 23:55.39 | yassine | good question |
| 23:55.46 | lintlock | hes getting ready for his all nighters due to crying |
| 23:56.02 | oxblood | Hah, 4 months of hell. |
| 23:56.22 | yassine | oxblood, my wife is living in austria and im living in germany :) |
| 23:56.34 | oxblood | After that your corpse just gets up automatically, graps a baby, and sleep while standing on your feet -- just like horses. |
| 23:56.46 | yassine | yeah :) |
| 23:56.49 | oxblood | Ohh, So you are going to move to Austria soon? |
| 23:57.15 | yassine | if my boss did not accept my expectation yes |
| 23:57.45 | yassine | in all the cases im looking for a new job |
| 23:58.10 | oxblood | My mom's cousin used to work for Simons, Austria, but he left there because his wife thought life is too depressing there. |
| 23:59.10 | oxblood | He moved to the U.S. just to find out how hard it is to get a job here: Seattle, D.C., SF, then here in Atlanta he had a job with AT&T for a year, his contract came up and couldn't find another position, had to move to UK work as a restaurant manager. |