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| 10:32.45 | jwisher | mm is there any empty jsp/tomcat framework? |
| 11:24.03 | pucko | ? |
| 11:29.43 | _zz | For some reason when i type in localhost on my browser, i automatically get redirected to port 8080 (my tomcat server). How can i remove this autoredirection? |
| 11:31.21 | pucko | that's prolly related to your OS/browser |
| 11:34.06 | _zz | pucko: i can't see how it could be the browser. i got a direct connection to the internet... hmmm |
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| 14:22.07 | Kungen | Hi there everyone |
| 14:23.59 | pucko | hey |
| 14:24.44 | pucko | how's Kristoffer B? |
| 14:25.18 | CapNemo | hey Kungen |
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| 16:42.49 | pfn | jasonb, so, I got browser hiding working for firefox |
| 16:42.59 | pfn | doesn't quite work for IE yet (can't restore the window correctly) |
| 16:53.10 | jasonb | browser hiding? |
| 16:53.23 | jasonb | How about browser seeking? :) |
| 16:53.45 | jasonb | Like, you have a whole browser window that stays hidden and doing stuff in the background? |
| 16:59.45 | pfn | it just hides itself while the applet takes the screen capture |
| 16:59.49 | pfn | try it out if you still have the url |
| 16:59.56 | pfn | http://paste.hanhuy.com/screenshot/jasonb-test |
| 17:00.13 | pfn | http://paste.hanhuy.com/screenshot/jasonb-example |
| 17:00.15 | pfn | or was it that link |
| 17:00.15 | pfn | heh |
| 17:01.38 | jasonb | Yeah, it works quite well. The browser isn't hidden, it just gets pretty small. |
| 17:01.46 | pfn | yeah |
| 17:01.56 | pfn | javascript offers no method of hiding the window |
| 17:02.07 | jasonb | Yeah, and it probably shouldn't. |
| 17:02.46 | jasonb | http://paste.hanhuy.com/screenshot/jasonb-test;jsessionid=0033E4CC5F857364E7A6EC9E9B82A34C?saved=yes |
| 17:02.54 | pfn | well, it'd be nice if it were able to bind to the minimize functionality of the window manager/shell |
| 17:03.24 | jasonb | It would be nice if no web page was allowed to do that. |
| 17:03.40 | pfn | jasonb, well, you can disable it in firefox |
| 17:03.48 | pfn | I hate web pages that resize my window |
| 17:03.53 | jasonb | Yeah, well, it should be disabled by default. |
| 17:04.48 | jasonb | Anyway, great work! |
| 17:04.55 | jasonb | It seems useful. |
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| 17:47.40 | *** join/#tomcat dan__t (i=dan@neener.neener.org) |
| 17:47.53 | dan__t | 'Morning, guys. How are you all? |
| 17:51.11 | jasonb | We're all smurfy. |
| 17:52.38 | dan__t | Fantastic. |
| 17:55.35 | dan__t | Ok, so, let's see if I can do this right... Tomcat 5.5.23-0jpp.3.0.2, Java 1.4.2 (gcj), CentOS5 (linux 2.6.18*) |
| 17:55.55 | dan__t | Is jrun known as a "connector"? |
| 17:57.15 | jasonb | Nope. |
| 17:57.56 | dan__t | Ok, what is it known as? |
| 17:58.44 | dan__t | Just trying to see how it all ties together heh. |
| 17:59.47 | jasonb | jrun? Like, the commercial software package? |
| 18:00.14 | dan__t | I'm looking at the AddType directive in Apache for .jsp and friends. |
| 18:00.29 | dan__t | The handler is known as jrun-handler, so I'm just going from that. |
| 18:00.50 | jasonb | oh. Well, I don't know about the jrun handler. Do you have a URL for that? |
| 18:03.33 | dan__t | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:03.43 | dan__t | I suppose I can find the spec for jrun-handler and see what it references |
| 18:04.01 | dan__t | I thought it simply passed the request on to a local (or whichever) Tomcat instance. |
| 18:09.08 | dan__t | The request comes in, AddType catches the request being .jsp, and passes it to jrun-handler - then what. |
| 18:09.12 | dan__t | I guess that's what I'm confused at. |
| 18:14.04 | jasonb | Generally, the answer is "use mod_proxy if you really have to use Apache httpd at all". |
| 18:15.44 | dan__t | Oh, that bad huh? |
| 18:15.52 | jasonb | yup. |
| 18:15.59 | dan__t | Wow. |
| 18:16.44 | dan__t | So web requests are proxied, or jsp and friends are proxied? |
| 18:17.11 | jasonb | web requests. |
| 18:17.18 | dan__t | ok. |
| 18:17.26 | jasonb | That is.. when you use Apache httpd as your front-end web server. |
| 18:17.27 | dan__t | That kind of turns my plans completely upside down then. |
| 18:17.50 | jasonb | Do you have to use httpd? |
| 18:17.55 | jasonb | (if so, why?) |
| 18:18.09 | dan__t | Actually................... |
| 18:18.15 | dan__t | Let me think about that. |
| 18:18.39 | dan__t | ok, so, traditionally, jsp and friends are served from tomcat alone, without the integration of httpd by any means? |
| 18:18.54 | jasonb | Well, today it is much better that way. |
| 18:19.07 | jasonb | I don't know how to answer your question with the word "traditionally" in there. |
| 18:19.16 | dan__t | Sure, np. |
| 18:19.17 | jasonb | (complicates it a bit) |
| 18:19.34 | dan__t | I'm trying to relate it to something I already know, like how PHP works and is parsed by httpd. |
| 18:19.47 | dan__t | But in this case... it's not. |
| 18:20.25 | jasonb | Exactly. |
| 18:20.38 | dan__t | Ok. |
| 18:20.54 | jasonb | You *can* proxy the requests through httpd, but it slows things down significantly, and complicates the configuration quite a bit. |
| 18:20.59 | dan__t | So it's generally bad practice to mix and match a .jsp page with some .php page along the lines, right? |
| 18:21.02 | dan__t | Sure. |
| 18:23.34 | jasonb | dan__t: It is okay to mix php and jsp within one web site, but it is not okay to put the JSP files mixed into the same directory with the php files. |
| 18:24.05 | dan__t | Ok. |
| 18:24.22 | jasonb | About the performance issues with proxying requests through httpd connectors to Tomcat, see my benchmarks here: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596101060/chapter/index.html |
| 18:25.02 | dan__t | Looking right now, thank you. |
| 18:25.08 | jasonb | You're welcome. |
| 18:25.18 | dan__t | The more I think about this, the more comfortable I'm feeling with jsp being split from everything else. |
| 18:25.32 | dan__t | I say that because the stuff written in jsp is the actual "workhorse" to generate content for the front-end. |
| 18:25.45 | dan__t | And there will be a middle tier database where things will be stored |
| 18:25.57 | dan__t | So perhaps making the split between the two "sides", if you will, is for the better anyway. |
| 18:27.15 | dan__t | On a side note, thanks for your contribution to the O'Reilly family. I'm an avid collector of their books heh. |
| 18:27.24 | dan__t | I think yours will be purchased today. |
| 18:28.48 | jasonb | You're quite welcome. |
| 18:29.06 | dan__t | You and your co-pilot see a cut of that, right? |
| 18:29.20 | jasonb | I'm a collector of their books, and more recently an author. I've read them since as far back as 1994. |
| 18:29.30 | jasonb | Yes. :) |
| 18:29.34 | dan__t | Good heh. |
| 18:29.46 | dan__t | Just saw your name in the book... must be pretty cool haha. |
| 18:29.54 | dan__t | 1994.... that would have made me 9. |
| 18:30.03 | dan__t | uh, 11. Ignore me. |
| 18:30.05 | jasonb | It's a huge, huge amount of work, and I'm glad to be done with the second edition now. |
| 18:30.10 | dan__t | I bet |
| 18:30.12 | jasonb | But, otherwise, yes, it's pretty cool. |
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| 18:31.35 | jasonb | As for JSP being a workhorse, yes, it is great for doing webapps.. and whether your focus is on PHP or JSP, that may determine which web server you use for your first contact web server. But, Apache httpd isn't very good at proxying requests for Tomcat. It slows down Tomcat's responses significantly, as the graphs in my benchmarks show. |
| 18:36.43 | dan__t | Word. |
| 18:37.32 | dan__t | I love working from home. |
| 18:37.41 | dan__t | I can rock out so hard when no one else is in the apartment building. |
| 18:37.42 | jasonb | heh! |
| 18:38.09 | jasonb | Which music is good Tomcat development music? :) |
| 18:38.16 | dan__t | Right now? Toadies. |
| 18:38.28 | dan__t | Might throw on some BB King or Stevie Ray Vaughn or some Stones later. |
| 18:38.47 | dan__t | Vaughan, too ;) |
| 18:40.28 | dan__t | Ok. So go with Tomcat's internalwebserver. |
| 18:41.04 | jasonb | Yes, I'd highly suggest it. |
| 18:41.59 | dan__t | Noted. |
| 18:46.14 | dan__t | I'm going to order a pizza, you want one? |
| 18:46.45 | jasonb | Sounds great. We need a pizza transfer protocol for that though. |
| 18:46.50 | dan__t | Sore do. |
| 18:46.53 | dan__t | Sure, rather. |
| 18:46.57 | dan__t | Where are you located? |
| 18:47.07 | jasonb | pttp://over.here/ |
| 18:47.14 | dan__t | hahaha |
| 18:47.17 | jasonb | Dublin, California, USA. |
| 18:47.19 | jasonb | And you? |
| 18:47.25 | dan__t | Chandler, AZ |
| 18:47.35 | jasonb | ahh, I used to live in Tempe and Scottsdale. |
| 18:48.14 | jasonb | Az was fun.. and I'm a bit too cold here. |
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| 18:50.22 | dan__t | I sometimes work in Tempe, right down the street from Campus. |
| 18:50.35 | dan__t | Warm summer days in Tempe near Campus are what keeps me here, if you know what I mean. |
| 18:51.13 | pfn | warm? |
| 18:51.15 | pfn | summer? |
| 18:51.22 | pfn | arizona? hah |
| 18:51.34 | pfn | more like arid desert summer days :) |
| 18:51.42 | dan__t | Girls. College campus. Enough said. |
| 18:51.50 | pfn | indeed |
| 18:53.58 | dan__t | I'd really like to find out what modified httpd.conf. |
| 18:54.13 | dan__t | Then stab the packager for not making a conf.d/* file? |
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| 19:31.37 | dan__t | Cool, my dev said that would work well. |
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| 19:46.48 | dan__t | jasonb, thanks again for the help. I really do appreciate it. |
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| 20:06.15 | a4akb | Hiall |
| 20:06.17 | a4akb | Hi jasonb |
| 20:07.38 | dan__t | 'afternoon. |
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| 21:30.00 | donny | this a good place to ask about ant? |
| 21:33.01 | dvayanu | no |
| 21:33.06 | dvayanu | but you can ask nevertheless |
| 21:34.54 | dan__t | heh |
| 21:37.59 | donny | it's okay, it was esaier than i thought to find out what i wanted in the manual |
| 21:38.14 | donny | in fact judging by the makefile, i'd say i now know more about ant than my predecessor did ;) |
| 21:38.48 | donny | but on to other questions... |
| 21:38.48 | donny | can i tell ant to just drop my app war into the webapps directory and expect tomcat to update from it? |
| 21:40.43 | *** join/#tomcat Max_- (n=max@modemcable194.96-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 21:40.47 | dvayanu | yes |
| 21:41.29 | donny | hmm... well maybe something else went wrong then |
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| 21:42.19 | largos | what is the best way to gracefully shutdown a given servlet it tomcat? |
| 21:42.54 | donny | hmm |
| 21:42.59 | largos | (in tomcat 5.5.25) |
| 21:43.13 | largos | on Gentoo, and with java 1.5 |
| 21:43.23 | donny | dvayanu: until i restarted tomcat, everything was 404 :( |
| 21:43.39 | donny | largos: isn't there a manager webapp for tomcat that can do that for you? |
| 21:44.02 | largos | donny: I really don't know |
| 21:44.12 | donny | largos: well it's usually at host:8080/manager/html |
| 21:44.20 | donny | largos: but you can probably just use /manager |
| 21:44.27 | donny | largos: (and :8080 obv) |
| 21:45.44 | dvayanu | donny: have you started tomcat with war or with unpacked war? |
| 21:46.21 | donny | dvayanu: i believe when it was started the war was unpacked, but i deleted that because i wnated to try deploying via war only |
| 21:46.34 | largos | donny: thanks -- it looks like the problems I'm having are infecting all of tomcat, and not just the webapp in question |
| 21:46.35 | donny | dvayanu: oh, it seems to unzip the war on its own |
| 21:46.46 | donny | largos: :( |
| 21:46.47 | largos | so I'll have to leave the graceful approach for next time.... |
| 21:49.28 | donny | dvayanu: well it seems to be working now. was it because i began with my webapp deployed in folder-form, and then tried deploying via war? |
| 21:50.59 | dvayanu | yeah |
| 21:51.07 | dvayanu | exactly |
| 21:52.06 | Max_- | any way to know the tomcat version?! |
| 21:52.08 | Max_- | im using |
| 21:52.32 | donny | doe sanyone have any advice for profiling tomcat webapps? |
| 21:52.54 | donny | Max_-: you could try looking at host:8080/manager/html |
| 21:53.11 | donny | Max_-: located at the bottom-left corner |
| 21:53.59 | Max_- | nothing there! |
| 21:54.10 | donny | Max_-: :( |
| 21:54.17 | donny | Max_-: did you get an error? |
| 21:54.25 | Max_- | no! :( |
| 21:54.31 | Max_- | Just installed it from aptitude on debian etch |
| 21:54.47 | Max_- | tried what a tutorial told me... I just changed an html for a jsp.. it worked |
| 21:54.56 | donny | Max_-: well then *i* can tell you your tomcat version |
| 21:55.04 | Max_- | they I tried to do the <%= new java.util.Date() %> thing and it didn't change |
| 21:55.23 | donny | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:55.28 | Max_- | yup |
| 21:55.37 | donny | Max_-: fyi, java.util.Date is deprecated |
| 21:55.45 | Max_- | but the channel asks for the 3 numbers so I was searching for it :P |
| 21:55.53 | Max_- | what should I try instead? |
| 21:55.57 | donny | aah, heh |
| 21:56.16 | largos | Max_-: Calendar, I think |
| 21:56.27 | Max_- | new java.util.Calendar() !? |
| 21:56.49 | largos | I think there is an explanation linked from the java.util.Date API docs |
| 21:57.04 | Max_- | humm ok.. |
| 21:57.13 | donny | Max_-: seems to be 5.5.20 |
| 21:57.19 | donny | Max_-: for the 5.5 version obviously |
| 21:57.19 | Max_- | so there's no longer a simple class that gives the date?! |
| 21:57.24 | Max_- | donny : okay ! |
| 21:57.26 | Max_- | thanks |
| 21:57.46 | donny | Max_-: there probably is, i actually don't know what is being recommended over java.util.Date(), i only noticed that Tomcat reminds me every now and then |
| 21:57.58 | donny | Max_-: (i'm not really into java that much) |
| 21:58.16 | Max_- | oh okay,, im searching |
| 21:58.16 | largos | as of java 1.5, I think the actual class isn't deprecated, but most of it's methods are |
| 21:58.29 | largos | I haven't really used 1.6, so I don't know about it. |
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| 22:11.42 | largos | hm.. what username / password would I use to get to the tomcat webadmin servlet? |
| 22:13.40 | largos | ah.. found the howto :) |
| 22:19.46 | Max_- | <%= "allo" %> should this print allo ? |
| 22:22.15 | Max_- | looks like it just doesn't work |
| 22:23.36 | Max_- | tried The time is now <% out.println("bleh"); %> and it just did nothing... |
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| 22:27.54 | largos | is removing a war from the webapps dir a valid way to shutdown a web app? |
| 22:28.09 | largos | (I don't have access to the tomcat manager) |
| 22:28.22 | pfn | maybe, try it |
| 22:28.29 | pfn | I wouldn't count on it, though |
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| 22:29.01 | donny | hi, what is the tomcat method to write data to the response? (as opposed to inlining literal strings between %> and %<) |
| 22:29.01 | Max_- | any suggestion to know what's wrong?! |
| 22:29.21 | pfn | using <% %> is bad practice... |
| 22:29.30 | pfn | for jsp |
| 22:30.38 | donny | pfn, you mean.. people often overuse it? or using it at all is considered bad practice? |
| 22:30.43 | *** part/#tomcat donny (n=donny@64.190.42.246) |
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| 22:30.46 | donny | damnit |
| 22:31.02 | pfn | it's generally bad practice for a webapp of any respectable size |
| 22:31.26 | pfn | for a one-off page or two, it might be ok |
| 22:31.32 | donny | pfn, yeah i really don't have much experience with tomcat, but the app i've been dropped into is pretty horrid even from my humble experience |
| 22:31.52 | donny | pfn, anyhow, what method do i use? what object do i have to use to write to the response directly? |
| 22:32.19 | pfn | from what? |
| 22:32.49 | donny | pfn, well i suppose this is a JSP file, but in general, programming with servlets, i can't remember the object you write your response to |
| 22:32.54 | donny | pfn, it's been a while since i've used tomcat |
| 22:33.05 | pfn | this applies to all servlet containers, not just tomcat |
| 22:33.17 | pfn | if you're in a servlet, you use response.getOutputStream/getWriter |
| 22:33.25 | pfn | but you should generally never write html from there |
| 22:33.45 | pfn | generally-accepted practice is to use a servlet, set request attributes, and forward to a jsp for *display* |
| 22:34.02 | pfn | or use a framework that does something similar |
| 22:34.06 | donny | pfn, ahhh, that makes so much more sense to me than what my predecessor here has done |
| 22:34.16 | donny | pfn, i'm very used to doing processing with python and then using XSLT to format my repsonse :) |
| 22:34.39 | pfn | xslt templates are nuts, too |
| 22:34.54 | donny | pfn, well.. it's appropriate for some things |
| 22:34.59 | pfn | it's only "nice" if your python application doesn't know it's generating xml |
| 22:35.05 | pfn | or if your data is natively xml |
| 22:35.26 | pfn | otherwise, I would choose a different templating language |
| 22:35.29 | donny | pfn, the data i used to work with was encapsulated in objects supplied by an external library that serialized to XML |
| 22:35.41 | donny | pfn, my preferred templating language for personal projects is the one bundled with Django |
| 22:37.07 | *** part/#tomcat largos (n=rcreswic@dsl081-014-025.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:37.24 | pfn | I haven't use django, wouldn't know it |
| 22:37.30 | donny | pfn, hey you seem like a good person to ask: what do tomcat developers use for profiling? |
| 22:37.37 | pfn | I've tried out clearsilver with python, that sucks |
| 22:37.49 | pfn | I don't know, I don't profile my webapps much, outside of a basic aop logger |
| 22:38.17 | pfn | I imagine people would profile inside of netbeans or eclipse |
| 22:38.23 | pfn | or use the various profilers out there |
| 22:38.25 | pfn | yourkit, etc. |
| 22:38.28 | donny | well this code is _so slow_ |
| 22:38.31 | donny | it's unimagineable |
| 22:38.43 | donny | my boss has been telling me sometimes the pages just dont' work |
| 22:38.50 | donny | i only realized today that that meant the http requests were timing out |
| 22:40.16 | donny | alrihgt, time to log out |
| 22:40.18 | donny | thanks for the help pfn |
| 23:10.27 | *** join/#tomcat twilight\ (n=ask@144.84-48-122.nextgentel.com) |