IRC log for #tomcat on 20090605

00:44.39jasonbdraemon: Set it as a request scope attribute (request attribute) in the initial JSP, then in the imported one, retrieve the same request attribute.
01:07.01relachshi jasonb  :)
01:08.38relachswhat is the session id named in case a browser does not support cookies
01:09.04relachsdoes the parameter key change with the servlet containers?
01:13.29jasonbIt is a parameter named "jsessionid", but there are serious limitations on that (the term for cookieless sessions via HTTP parameters is: "url rewriting")..
01:14.10jasonbThe parameter name can change from container to container, but I think most popular containers have settled on the "jsessionid" name.
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01:23.34relachsjasonb: ok thanks, i knew that is url rewriting, just wanted to make sure i dont use the same paramter name. Tomcat is a servlet container?
01:23.53jasonbrelachs: Yes.
01:24.16jasonbrelachs: A Java EE "web container": Servlets and JSP.
01:24.22relachsthen what is the server if i test my servlets with netbeans?
01:24.29relachsah, the glassfish thing
01:24.34relachsi am sorry :)
01:24.48jasonbGlassfish contains a forked & modified version of Tomcat.
01:25.39relachswhen i want to host my web application, where can files be saved?
01:26.03relachsi mean, where is my web application allowed to save files to?
01:27.20jasonbYour web application can use the entire filesystem, assuming there isn't a security manager enabled that prevents it.  But, the servlet specification says that you should save files into the container's work directory or temp directory, because those are the only safe places on the filesystem to write files to, regardless of the kind of installation.
01:27.56jasonbBut, if you know how the webapp is being used, and you know for sure which absolute paths are always there, it's probably better to write your files to an absolute filesystem location that you control.
01:28.25jasonb(especially if you can make that configurable)
01:29.06jasonbYou should never write a webapp that saves files inside the webapp's own directory tree, though.
01:30.19relachsfor now i just use new File("").getPath. That gets me some weird location. But if i want to make the webapp run on another server ( i don't know which are cheap (the hosts) ) what would always be the right place to save files to?
01:30.55relachstemp directory on a foreign host? :S
01:31.11relachshow would i know where his temp directory is
01:31.18jasonbNo, that's usually the wrong place to save files to.
01:31.29jasonbThat's the servlet container JVM's current working directory.
01:31.40jasonbIt could be anything.. including read-only dirs.
01:32.09jasonbThe temp directory path is stored in the system property "java.io.tempdir".
01:32.28relachsoh wait.. its not for temporary storage
01:32.54relachswell... depends how you define temporary
01:33.10jasonbEverything is actually only temporary..  :)
01:33.37relachsyep :)
01:34.44relachsbut if i save my files to tempdir, it would be possible that other webapps would delete my files, wouldnt it?
01:35.51jasonbActually, the spec now says that the location of a webapp's temp dir can be found by reading the "javax.servlet.context.tempdir" context attribute's value.
01:36.42jasonbNo other webapps can see your webapp's temp dir, nor have access to it.. unless they crawl the filesystem to discover it and write to it..  A security manager could prevent that, but that's almost never enabled.
01:37.18relachshm cool
01:47.03relachsjasonb: i guess you are programming too?
01:48.53jasonbrelachs: Always.. yes.
01:49.14relachsare you doing it for life? what are you programming?
01:51.14jasonbrelachs: Hmm, so far, I've been programming for 28 years, so yeah, I guess one could characterize that as programming for life.  :)  I work at a small startup company where we have a large web application that is a social networking collaborative work thing.  How about you?
01:53.11relachsprobably should have written "for living" / "for job" :) I have nothing to do at the moment, sitting around waiting to study in some months
01:54.12jasonbCool.  Perfect time to learn about Tomcat, webapps, ajax, etc..
01:55.15relachsI am developing a ladder site for a Map/Game scenario we are playing on Battle.net
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01:57.14relachsjasonb: how do you make money with that social networking thing, is it free to use?
01:57.45jasonbrelachs: It's commercial software.
01:58.08jasonbrelachs: We are actually taking on quite a number of large corporate customers right now..
01:58.52relachsthat is cool, how did you make them notice you on the market?
01:59.25jasonbI didn't really do that part.  I'm not in marketing or sales.. and that's all magical/nonsensical to me.  :)
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02:01.51relachswell i wish you all the best with your product, only if its good of course.. :)
02:02.53jasonbIt's good, helpful stuff.  Thanks.
02:05.52perr0jasonb: is it like wiki or confluence?
02:06.13khapajust upgraded to tomcat 6.0.20, got problem with including a jsp in another jsp, e.g., this doesnt work:
02:06.14khapajsp A includes jsp B and jsp B has some page imports, jsp A is unable to see those imports
02:06.14khapathis worked in 6.0.18
02:07.51jasonbperr0: It bundles JSPWiki.. our software is an idea management and prediction markets suite, as a webapp, and the webapp has social networking features like you'd find on a social networking site.. and this is all used for collaborative business purposes.
02:09.02perr0cool we have been looking to that kind of software lately we started with confluence now basecamp
02:10.02jasonbperr0: I've seen confluence, but I haven't seen basecamp.  Have a look at ours if you want: http://www.spigit.com
02:10.25perr0k
02:10.54khapaas i can see the generated jsp is also different, 6.0.18 will imports whatever imported in jsp B on jsp A, but 6.0.20 doesnt do this. is this a change or something?
02:12.00perr0thanks jasonb I will pass this link on to our PMs for a look
02:12.58jasonbkhapa: You can always file it as a bug against Tomcat 6.0.20 and see what they say.  https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/query.cgi?product=Tomcat%206
02:13.06khapaok
02:13.58jasonbperr0: Cool.  They might like it.  Ask them to tell the salesperson that "Jason" referred them.  :)
02:15.20perr0will this get you donuts or a beer?
02:15.51jasonbIt might.. I'm not sure.  :)
02:15.57perr0ok =]
02:19.37perr0jasonb: by the way what book do you recommend right know just started reading chariots of the gods and I also bought the elegant universe
02:27.02jasonbperr0: My favorite book is Tomcat: The Definitive Guide, 2nd Edition (O'Reilly).  :)
02:27.46jasonbperr0: Mainly because I wrote it.  :)
02:27.49perr0ya, I got that one already. grr.... I know one of them will ready it
02:28.19perr0I want my badinputfilter but the link you posted earlier kinda helped
02:28.34relachswhat do you need to know about tomcat if you are just developing sevlets?
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02:28.41jasonbperr0: But, sounds like you're also interested in cosmology, which is wonderful.. you might want to pick up A Brief History of Time, by Stephen Hawking.  Really cool.
02:29.00perr0that one was the book that got me started
02:29.11jasonbIt's really great.  :)
02:29.24perr0yep
02:29.40perr0did you get any special favors while working @ NASA?
02:29.59jasonbrelachs: Well, you need to know how to use it.. deploying webapps, starting/stopping, reloading, all sorts of random things.
02:30.52relachsbut netbeans does it all for me and i i am deploying it on a 'real' server on a host a pay for, i won't have to deal with it right?
02:31.07jasonbperr0: While working there I was able to meet several US Astronauts, including one International Space Station long duration astronaut..  Plus I got to meet Sy Liebergot, a famous EECOM guy from the Apollo era.. amazing stories!
02:31.35perr0I bet
02:32.09perr0I can only imagine working in such place with really smart people all talking astronomy and the works
02:32.11jasonbrelachs: Possibly not.. though you could end up in a situations where you don't know why something doesn't work, and the only way to find out is to learn more about how the servlet container works.
02:33.19jasonbperr0: It's really like you think it is..  extremely busy, and very deep science & technology conversations going on all around you.  :)
02:34.25perr0may I ask why you are no longer there
02:34.50jasonbperr0: One book I have lined up to read, but haven't begun yet is: Failure Is Not an Option by Gene Krantz.  It came highly recommended.
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02:36.29perr0I'll have to look into that. Once place I love to get books from is bookmooch.com
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02:37.24jasonbperr0: Due to the NASA budget crisis (caused by some steep political budget cutbacks), NASA cannot keep all of its engineers on staff during the duration of any of the projects.  They periodically lay people off, it's quite common, and after a couple of years working there I got laid off, though I did survive a couple of previous cuts.  
02:38.11jasonbperr0: Also, at certain points during missions, the mission focus changes from development/implementation, to flight & research, so developers mainly have to go at that time.
02:38.40perr0sounds like a management nightmare
02:38.45jasonbIt is.
02:39.35jasonbIt's a revolving door.. constantly.
02:40.14jasonbBut, Kepler is now flying, and the search for Earth-like planets has already begun.
02:40.37relachswhat have you developed in your time at NASA? :)
02:41.43perr0ya the chariots of the gods section I am reading is talking about how it would be for our astronauts when they land and encounter other human like beings in earth like planets
02:41.44jasonbrelachs: I designed and developed a clustered data analysis pipeline infrastructure in which the data from the Kepler Space Telescope will be analyzed, scientifically, to find planets.
02:42.29relachssounds complex :D
02:42.43relachsc++?
02:43.05jasonbrelachs: It is.  Nope, it's a mixture of Java and Matlab.
02:44.13relachsi thought java wouldn't be used in the military/important area
02:44.21wsmwkquestion - I have tomtcat 5.5.23, centos 5.2, java 1.4.2.0-40 - recently inherited this system with no doc and know nothing about tomcat
02:44.37perr0I don't think NASA is considered military?
02:45.20jasonbThe military uses everything.. but not everywhere.
02:45.33wsmwktomcat startup bombs not finding relink file called by tomcat, i..e /usr/share/tomcat5/bin/relink
02:45.42jasonbBut no, NASA is not within a branch of the military.  Instead it is its own top-level government agency.
02:46.47relachsbut air-force pilots used to be the first astronauts, no?
02:47.07jasonbwsmwk: I suggest you install and use my Tomcat package instead: http://www.webdroid.org/archives/tomcat-package
02:47.12wsmwkis this file created on the fly?  or did some glich or update cause the file to be deleted?  best guess is it got hosed after last shuttdown, which should was 4am totday
02:47.30jasonbrelachs: It was actually a mix of pilots from all military branches.
02:47.44wsmwkjasonb: i should have said up front - this is a long running system
02:48.06wsmwklooks
02:49.23jasonbwsmwk: Yeah, I don't know the relink stuff, sorry.. it's not part of Tomcat.  If it used to run, then it's probably very close to running.. so there may be an easy way of fixing it.
02:49.42wsmwkjasonb: I understand my predecessor had to "tweak" things to get this running with the application being served. So I'm wondering if I will make something worse by reinstalling, versus going to our backup
02:50.03wsmwkyeah, easy is what I've been searching for :)
02:50.22wsmwkbut I don't even know yet if that's the only thing lost. hopefully itis
02:50.50wsmwkthe relink has to do with making short the right jvm is hooked up
02:51.13wsmwkno doc sucks
02:51.44wsmwkjasonb: thanks
02:53.11jasonbwsmwk: You're welcome.
02:54.07wsmwkjasonb: iirc there's a jasonb in mozilla.org ... are you the same?
02:55.52jasonbwsmwk: Hmm, nope.  I like the Mozilla Foundation though.
02:56.23wsmwkjasonb: in that case, hope you try the next version of thunderbird
02:57.06jasonbwsmwk: If there's a nice new version coming out, then you can bet I will, because that's what I use for my email client!
02:57.42wsmwkjasonb: i help with bug triage and ttesting.  we're soon to release beta 3
02:58.14jasonbwsmwk: I must thank you, very much, for helping that project!
02:58.44jasonbwsmwk: I've used Thundirbird for many years, and it's been wonderful.
02:59.23wsmwkif the mood ever strikes - https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing are ways to thelp
03:00.05jasonbwsmwk: Neat.. thanks.. I'll read that.
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03:15.23relachsis it possible to deserialize an object of class X if i edited just comments of the methods and variables but not the actual code?
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04:39.22MadOtisHello all, Can anyone point me to any documentation on how to add custom file extensions to tomcat?  I want to add a .jspx extension called .link
04:40.08pfnMadOtis, look at conf/web.xml
04:40.30MadOtispfn: Thanks, I'll take a look there.
04:44.08MadOtispfn: If I understand it correctly, to add an extension called ".link" that processes just like a ".jspx", I just add it as a servlet-mapping?
04:44.31MadOtis... to the jsp servlet?
04:50.20MadOtisHmmm... I added a servlet-mapping with a url-pattern of *.link... and added "index.link" to the welcome-file-list and have an index.link page in the context root... but when I try to navigate to the site, I get an error: "Cannot find file c:\java\apache-tomcat-6.0.18\webapps\myapp\index."
04:50.34MadOtisDo I need to add a .link mime type or something?
04:51.41pfnwhat happens if you go to index.link
04:52.06MadOtisSame error message.
04:52.33MadOtisif I go to "http://..../myapp", I get the same
04:52.45pfnhmm, dunno, maybe the jsp servlet just doesn't support that
04:52.45MadOtisAlmost like it can't find the file... but it's there.
04:53.24MadOtisI wonder if it could be the faces servlet then... I'm using ICEFaces.
04:53.35MadOtisI'll try a different extension to see if that's it.
04:54.49deebotomcat/conf/web.xml
04:55.00deebojust add a servlet mapping to the servlet 'jsp' with extension .info
04:57.06MadOtisHmmm... I renamed index.info to index.foo, changed the .info to .foo in welcome-file and in the servlet mapping...
04:57.55MadOtison browsing to: http://...../myapp, I get a blank page.  Explicitly specifying .../myapp/index.foo, I see the jsp printed out instead of rendered.
05:02.34deeboyou need to add .foo to the jsp servlet mapping
05:02.39deeboand index.foo to the welcome-file list
05:03.09MadOtisdeebo: I did.
05:03.18deebowell clearly not properly :)
05:04.29MadOtisI'm wondering if it's ICEFaces servlet or something...  I'm going to try and set up a basic jsp (non-JSF) war and try it there.  If it works there, then it has to be a faces servlet problem.
05:07.56MadOtisWait... I didn't see this coming up in the log...  "FileNotFoundException: C:\java\apache-tomcat-6.0.18\webapps\myapp (Access is denied)
05:08.58MadOtisI see the webapps\myapp folder, and it contains an index.foo file.  What could cause the "access is denied"?
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05:10.45MadOtisDoes windows itself need some sort of mime type created for .foo files?
05:12.41MadOtisOh well... screw-it.  I'll work on it tomorrow, I'm tired.  Thanks for the suggestions.
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09:27.37raziquehi all is tomcat available for a amd64 Debian ?
09:27.49razique(Debian 64 bit)
09:28.09sveajobbHi, If tomcat for some reason REFUSES to keep the session. what could possible be wrong?!?
09:28.26sveajobbfor some reason after a server reboot it takes a really long time for the session management to kick in
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09:28.54sveajobbI can login, but I get logged out directly (in my session based application) and it's a bit critical
09:29.17raziqueIt's ok I get my answer
09:29.20raziquethanks anyway
09:30.23pirxis there some standard way to make tomcat listen on port 80 without having to run as root?
09:34.01raziquepirx
09:34.16raziqueyou can change your server.xml
09:34.33raziquebut the best / cleanest way
09:34.48raziqueis to deploy Apache and mod_proxy fior instance
09:35.58khapapirx: nope, you need to run as root to have tomcat run on port 80, but you can always change the user it's running on after that just like any other servers
09:36.37pirxso tomcat can somehow suid() to user tomcat after start?
09:37.05khapapirx: there are few ways of running tomcat to do that, but i use jsvc
09:37.24pirxyes, there is an apache/ajp in front that listens on port 80, but for some reason there is some firewall problem with port 8009 between the servers
09:37.49khapadont use apache unless you really need it
09:37.54khapause apache with tomcat that is
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09:45.09pirxis it easy to start using jsvc?
09:45.32pirxis it as simple as just adding "jsvc" somewhere in /etc/init.d/tomcat ?
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11:01.47khapapirx: it's included with tomcat, just need to compile it and create an init script to use it
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12:31.54BW^-on tomcat5.5/broken etch tomcat distro, i get this: - Servlet  threw load() exception
12:31.55BW^-java.lang.InternalError: cannot create instance of org.bouncycastle.jce.provider.symmetric.AESMappings : java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.security.SecurityPermission putProviderProperty.BC)
12:32.17BW^-now this is strange, because i took /etc/tomcat5.5/* and /var/lib/tomcat5.5/webapps and conf directly from another machine with the same configuration
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16:41.14kmlany ideas how i can configure apache ftp to only accept incoming files with .pgp extension?
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17:47.31rtk126Hello... I was wondering about replication... How can I make sure that the replication does not go through all network interfaces, but only to the secondary NIC?
17:51.02rtk126Anyone?
17:58.32rtk126n.m., added a route for this network
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19:40.37cr0mulentI am looking for information on "hot code replacement" I am working on the html/css for a tomcat based web app which is built in eclipse. I have been taught that once changes have been made you deploy those changes to tomcat via a war file. This is too slow for me to see what changes I have made. From what I hear I am doing this wrong. Could someone point me in the right direction?
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20:45.41epalmin JSP, how can i get href="this link" into href="this%20link", and so on
20:45.58epalmi'm looking for some encoding function
20:46.07epalmbut i can't find it in the docs
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20:54.40randrewepalm: maybe jstl c:url does that
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20:58.31epalmnope, it doesn't, looks like
21:07.52epalmhttp://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/doc/string-doc/string-1.1.0/index.html#encodeUrl where do i get the "tag library descriptor file"?
21:13.16pfnepalm, use c:url and c:param
21:13.20pfnepalm, those will encode automatically
21:14.12pfnso basically:  <c:url var="myurl" value="/location X"><c:param name="test" value="bar"/></c:url>
21:14.28pfnwill result in /context_root/location%20X?test=bar
21:14.54pfnif you have & in your query string
21:15.00pfnyou should also use fn:escapeXml(your_url) before using it in attributes
21:20.41epalmany clue where i can find the tld file referenced at http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/doc/string-doc/string-1.1.0/index.html ?
21:20.46epalm^pfn
21:21.17epalmc:url is just so cumbersome
21:21.31epalmhere's a string, encode it, that's all i need
21:22.11pfnc:url is the method to use if you want to construct a url
21:22.17pfnsince it accounts for context root, etc.
21:22.33pfnif you want to use that tld you need to install that taglib
21:23.06epalmi'm missing the tld file
21:23.13pfnthe taglib includes the tld file
21:23.29pfnweb.xml no longer requires <taglib> declarations
21:23.30epalmno, it doesn't, strangely enough
21:23.33pfnit works automatically
21:23.43epalmhm, maybe i'm not doing thing right then
21:24.46pfnuh, and it's included in the bindist
21:24.58pfnyou realize you can't load taglibs if you don't have the corresponding jars, right
21:25.20epalmi have the jar from http://commons.apache.org/lang/index.html
21:25.42pfnthat's not the taglib
21:26.20epalmi'm just trying to follow http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/doc/string-doc/string-1.1.0/index.html#config
21:26.40pfncommons-lang is a *dependency*
21:26.47pfnit's not the taglib
21:26.51epalmah hah
21:27.10pfnhttp://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/string/
21:27.10epalmso where do i get that
21:27.10pfnimprove your search-fu
21:27.17epalmi think it was more a lack of understandinf
21:27.18epalmg
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