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| 00:53.40 | joejaxx | Zelut: do you have time for a pm ? :) |
| 00:54.22 | Zelut | joejaxx: ok |
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| 03:53.43 | Heartsbane | mIRC is gay |
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| 03:53.49 | jhancock_ | ls |
| 03:53.58 | Heartsbane | ls -la |
| 03:54.08 | jhancock_ | :P |
| 04:01.07 | Zelut | Heartsbane: what're you doing not using irssi anyway |
| 04:01.59 | Heartsbane | I am |
| 04:02.07 | Heartsbane | somoeone isn't |
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| 08:12.39 | Gate | ~help |
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| 18:57.23 | Gate | RedHeron: hello |
| 18:57.29 | RedHeron | Hiya. |
| 18:57.35 | RedHeron | How it goes? |
| 18:57.56 | Gate | pretty good |
| 18:58.11 | Gate | As per our conversation I did a little more research into Obama |
| 18:58.24 | RedHeron | Cool. |
| 18:58.37 | Gate | and all it did was clarify this: The choice between Hillary and Obama is a choice between a tyrant and a socialist |
| 18:58.52 | Gate | in order. |
| 18:59.02 | Gate | But it did confirm Obama > Clinton |
| 18:59.03 | RedHeron | How do you figure Obama to be a socialist? |
| 18:59.20 | Gate | look at his proposals |
| 18:59.20 | RedHeron | I have. |
| 18:59.21 | RedHeron | Several times, as a matter of fact. |
| 18:59.41 | RedHeron | And being that I'm against socialism, I am seriously trying to see it. |
| 19:01.54 | RedHeron | Clinton is a socialist, hands-down. |
| 19:02.04 | RedHeron | She borders on communist, actually. |
| 19:02.07 | Gate | He is less of a tyrant than Hillary though. But he still doesn't seem to believe in free market, he believes in compulsory health care (but to a lesser degree than Clinton) |
| 19:02.21 | RedHeron | Compulsory health care? |
| 19:02.35 | RedHeron | Have you even bothered to read that proposal all the way through? |
| 19:02.53 | RedHeron | And how does he not believe in a free market? |
| 19:03.56 | Gate | no, I listened to what *he* said about it |
| 19:05.16 | RedHeron | He said that mandating healthcare would be counter to the aims of a free and democratic society. |
| 19:05.36 | RedHeron | Obama said that in like November, and repeated it in December. |
| 19:06.13 | Gate | and yet he mandates it for children according to his own statement |
| 19:07.15 | RedHeron | It's still something that parents can choose. |
| 19:07.21 | RedHeron | What's written is what the plan is. |
| 19:07.28 | RedHeron | Because that's "in writing". |
| 19:07.57 | RedHeron | And there haven't been significant changes made to the content (other than layout) since August, when I began looking. |
| 19:08.12 | RedHeron | Though there are new sections as issues have cropped up. |
| 19:10.20 | Gate | He supports government fingers further in K-12 education (just so our *wonderful* bureaucracy can improve it more, obviously NCLB was a good idea, he just says it was executed poorly) |
| 19:10.51 | Gate | Realize that I think the only difference between most Republicans and the Democrats is the severity of their socialism |
| 19:11.15 | RedHeron | Meh. I'm home-schooling anyway, so I haven't paid attention to that. Public schooling has always been a complete sham and so long as public funds go to public schools we're locked in the same mess we've always been in since its inception. |
| 19:11.23 | Gate | much of what our government is becoming and has become over the last 50 odd years is socialist |
| 19:12.25 | Gate | and that is a socialist problem. As is Social Security, Medicare and a host of the other economic problems the US faces |
| 19:12.25 | RedHeron | I tend to agree with that, Gate, though I disagree that this is what Obama is standing for. |
| 19:12.25 | RedHeron | The first statement, that is. |
| 19:12.49 | RedHeron | The second statement is one that shows you haven't listened to Obama, you've been too worried about picking speeches apart. |
| 19:13.12 | RedHeron | Obama's said that "if these programs don't work, and can't be fixed, they should be done away with." |
| 19:13.45 | Gate | But is plans say that he honestly thinks they can be fixed and should be |
| 19:13.51 | Gate | in effect, anyway |
| 19:14.05 | RedHeron | I should point out that both their lack of specific functionality and their fixability have been utter failures in the past. |
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| 19:15.45 | RedHeron | He's said he'll give them honest study to see if they can be fixed, and if they can, they should... but every time they've been tried to be "fixed" in the past 30-odd years, it works for a year or less and is worse than before. |
| 19:16.15 | RedHeron | That's not "fixed" according to definition in any use of the word. |
| 19:20.28 | RedHeron | On to the "anti-free-market" statement? |
| 19:24.09 | Gate | According to what he has said he believes that the current sub-prime mortgage crisis is a direct effect of "lack of oversight" from the government and that it can be fixed with more government meddling |
| 19:25.33 | Gate | again, to a far less tyrannical degree than his opponent, still he believes, despite its record, that our bureaucracy can fix this problem. |
| 19:26.08 | Gate | I think the FED is one of the biggest problems our economy has |
| 19:26.42 | Gate | giving it more power and more control will only result in a further collapse of the dollar |
| 19:30.47 | RedHeron | Obama's also the only one listening to advice from the general population. |
| 19:32.16 | Gate | BTW, to put my opinions in perspective: Clinton= Tyrant Socialist , Obama=Socialist, McCain=Atrocity against free speech among other things, Giuliani=dirtbag |
| 19:32.31 | Gate | the list goes on |
| 19:32.35 | RedHeron | Paul=Liar? |
| 19:32.46 | RedHeron | Paul is a power-grabbing fascist. |
| 19:32.52 | Gate | no, Paul=nuts |
| 19:33.40 | RedHeron | Who is against anti-censorship legislation which would ultimately serve to keep corporations from doing things that our government isn't already allowed to do. |
| 19:33.45 | Gate | the problem is that Paul is probably talking complete bulls***t and I realize that, but it is the only bulls***t that comes even close to something I desire. |
| 19:34.06 | RedHeron | I can't support someone I think is lying. |
| 19:34.15 | RedHeron | The lesser of two evils is still evil. |
| 19:34.18 | Gate | they are ALL lying |
| 19:34.30 | RedHeron | Obama has a track record that says otherwise. |
| 19:34.38 | Gate | it is the nature of politics. they are ALL dirtbags |
| 19:34.57 | RedHeron | And he is the *ONLY* one who has a track record that says he's sincere. |
| 19:35.21 | Gate | heh, a track record of 4 years? |
| 19:35.29 | RedHeron | 12 years, actually. |
| 19:35.53 | RedHeron | Including his time in the state senate in Illinois. |
| 19:36.02 | RedHeron | 16 if we count his time at the HLR. |
| 19:36.04 | Gate | ah |
| 19:36.57 | RedHeron | That's a *long* time for anything political. |
| 19:37.17 | RedHeron | And being "unchanging" is not nearly as useful as being "educatable for the right reasons". |
| 19:37.34 | Gate | RedHeron: I do not bang anyone for changing their mind |
| 19:37.42 | RedHeron | Ron Paul does. |
| 19:37.52 | RedHeron | Clinton does. |
| 19:37.57 | Gate | I consider myself something of a scientist, changing your mind is neccecary |
| 19:38.07 | RedHeron | I agree with that statement. |
| 19:38.24 | RedHeron | But only if the evidence supports it. |
| 19:38.24 | Gate | I think we have expressed that Clinton is a Stalin waiting to happen |
| 19:38.35 | RedHeron | I think we're in agreement on that point. |
| 19:39.04 | Gate | So McCain, I think McCain Feingold says it all, frankly |
| 19:39.11 | RedHeron | Heh. |
| 19:39.43 | RedHeron | Says what, exactly? |
| 19:40.30 | Gate | represses the ability for any organization excepting the news from running ads about federal candidates 60 days before an election |
| 19:40.39 | Gate | a direct attack on free speech. |
| 19:40.58 | RedHeron | Is there a wonder why I can't support McCain. |
| 19:48.50 | Gate | Anyway, the only candidate who appeals to me at all is Ron Paul, with the full realization that he is either bat s***t nuts or bulls***ting, he is the only one who talks about the things I care about and in the direction I want to see them go. Civil liberties being foremost among them. |
| 19:49.52 | Gate | Obama is the lesser of evils on the Democratic side, I believe. |
| 19:52.17 | herlo | Ron Paul is not going to win |
| 20:15.58 | Gate | I know |
| 20:26.00 | Gate | "A democracy will vote away its freedoms"\ |
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| 22:06.31 | undertakingyou | sontek: ping |
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