IRC log for #ubuntu-us-ut on 20080505

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04:03.53sontek~onjoin herlo
04:03.53jbotonjoin for herlo set by sontek on Sun May  4 15:45:56 2008: wget -q http://last.fm/user/herlo -O- | grep -c -E "Spice Girls"
04:04.30Heartsbaneoh not bad ... if you have a mute button
04:04.40Heartsbanenight all
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14:52.17mheathHmm, this new graphics card has made Compiz effortlessly smooth.
14:52.19mheathIt's amazing.
15:02.34nearnwhat kind of card?
15:04.29Yorokobiguesses it is a video/graphics card. :)
15:07.13mheath02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV42 [GeForce 6800 XT] (rev a2)
15:07.17mheathWith 256MB of RAM
15:07.48Zelutmheath: now we all know you have a non-free card. that means you can't bitch about it when it stops working.
15:08.31mheathI have never had a problem with Nvidia or ATI proprietary drivers.
15:08.35mheathshrugs
15:08.47mheathAnd I've been using one of them for a good 6 years now
15:09.07ZelutI'm just saying..
15:27.54mheathHas anyone had any negative experiences with AMD64 Hardy I should know about?
15:27.58mheathI'm just about to install it...
15:33.37bigfoxAMD64 hardy is working fine for me on 2 computers
15:34.06bigfoxI did the upgrade from 7.10 on both machines.  Working perfectly.
15:34.19herlohe's lying :)
15:34.29herloit sucks, use Fedora lol
15:34.39bigfoxAll the codecs and flash work, so there aren't any compromises with the 64 bit version like in the past.
15:35.19mheathbigfox: Yeah
15:35.25mheathI loved that improvement in Gutsy.
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15:50.48*** join/#ubuntu-us-ut linuxalien (i=UNKNOWN@oalug/member/linuxalien)
15:52.05herlobleh, you guys use Ubuntu like its Winders
15:53.46nearnsrsly
15:54.38nearnI wonder how many people in here have used a linux where you had you compile/install your apps instead of using binaries.
15:54.50herlome
15:54.58herlostill do that to a point
15:55.07nearnthat makes 3 that I know of.
15:55.28herlofizz?  He makes three
15:55.29nearnherlo: have you ever done a lfs?
15:55.33nearnno synic
15:55.34herlonearn: yes
15:55.39herlooh, cool
15:55.53Zelutanyone who used SLS is the winner (not me)
15:55.53nearnfizz: used gentoo for a week or less.
15:55.55herlonearn: helps you learn why Linux works
15:56.07nearnI agree. I loved it when I did it.
15:56.15nearneven though it was very time consuming.
15:56.38herloZelut: the only diff between LFS and SLS is that SLS already had a chrooted system for you.
15:56.44herlostill had to compile everything
15:57.09Zelutlast time I tried gentoo it took 5 days to build gnome-lite.  I can't believe any argument that says that is more efficient.
15:57.10herloWindowMaker was fun
15:57.32herloZelut: efficiency wasn't considered until *after* the binaries were built
15:58.09nearna correctly setup gentoo box flys
15:58.13mheathnearn: I do and have.
15:58.44mheathI've ran Gentoo, several BSD's, LFS, Slackware....Fedora, Redhat, and several others for various lengths of time.
15:58.54mheathAnd I love Ubuntu.
15:59.18nearnI am only using ubuntu untill gentoo gets back on track.
15:59.24mheathTalking about how DistroA > DistroB, particularlly in a channel with a particular distro in it's name, is one of the stupidest things people can possibly discuss.
15:59.36Zelutnearn: don't you mean OSX ;)
15:59.39herlolol
15:59.41mheathIt's a matter of personal preference
16:00.25nearnZelut: on my laptop, yes.
16:01.04nearnlike I said, I really like suspend and I have never had luck with suspend on a linux system before.
16:01.32herlomheath: to be honest, Ubuntu wouldn't exist without the basic freedoms set forth by the creators of the FSF.  While I disagree with some of the tactics used by RMS to promote software freedom, Linux and most of the distros we run today wouldn't exist without those fundamental principals
16:02.11Zelutherlo: unfortunately most FSF-types make me want to run away from free software.
16:02.55herloproblem is, Ubuntu doesn't follow them and tries to appease the Windows user.  However, I like their transitionary nature and hope that as free software replacements become stable, Ubuntu will adopt them and become less a transition and more a Linux
16:03.15herloZelut: that's why I said I don't like their tactics
16:03.22nearnaww come on, you love richard stallman.
16:03.47throckrichard stallman and herlo:  bff
16:04.29nearnaww cute
16:04.53herlothrock: lolol
16:04.57Zelutherlo + RMS == sontek + kkubasik
16:05.06herlolol, NOT even close
16:05.30mheathherlo: Thats the thing, it's necessary for Linux to continue moving forward
16:05.48mheathWhile I wish that the entire world would instantly start using only free formats and free software, it isn't going to happen.
16:06.04herloI guess that's what I get for trying to convince the Ubuntu users.
16:06.33Zelutherlo: I think ubuntu is trying to accomplish the free-software goal, but had to use some blobs to get there.
16:06.34herlomheath: I don't disagree with the tactics, I just wish people who came into Ubuntu were better educated about the freedoms
16:06.45herloZelut: right, just want more
16:06.51herloalways wants more :)
16:07.06nearnwho doesn't?
16:07.15herlobigfox always stays away from discussing freedomes
16:07.24herlos/es/s/
16:07.29ZelutI don't think most people give a shit. they just want their computer to work.
16:07.32mheathherlo: I think it would be better to point users to more of the excellent documentation Ubuntu has on converting to free formats
16:07.36herloZelut: but they should
16:07.42mheathAnd on the benefits of free software alternatives.
16:07.42Zelutnearn: case in point. your suspend/resume.
16:07.44herlomheath: agreed
16:08.03mheathI just got done converting all of my .mp3's to .ogg :-)
16:08.13mheathAll of my office stuff is in Open Office
16:08.27throckmheath:  so are you sharing the script you used for the conversion?
16:08.31mheathAnd its completely documented on the Ubuntu wiki how to do all this.
16:08.36mheaththrock: theres a tool to do it, really easily.
16:08.50mheathsoundconverter I think it's called
16:08.56herloZelut: the thing is, if we convert these people from the Windows world, and they start demanding non-free components, are we really helping anyone?  It just means that Canonical will be the 800lb gorilla.  In fact, they can start charging for things that are still desired and are not free in the distro
16:08.57mheathsudo apt-get installl soundconverter
16:09.18mheathITs a GUI...tell it where your mp3s are, tell it where you want to output, tell it the quality, and it goes.
16:09.23herlowhether they say they won't or not is actually a moot point when they run out of money
16:09.35mheathIt'll even read tags and organize the output into Artist/Album/foo.ogg directories
16:09.44throckheh - I already have that one installed too.  I think I installed it and then never got around to checking it out.
16:09.57nearndamn skippy. I think that the gnu and linux kernel are just stepping stones in movement for better written software. frre or not free does not matter, as long as it works and is effecent.
16:10.10herlomheath: mp3 is patent encumbered not copyright encumbered.  Not that that is better, just that free software tends to focus on software..
16:10.22Zelutherlo: our thinking is that we can never pressure companies into doing free drivers unless we have the numbers.  we can't get the numbers unless stuff works.
16:10.48mheathIndeed.
16:10.52herlonearn Zelut: until someone decides not to update it anymore.
16:10.57Zelutherlo: so it is a chicken-and-the-egg problem, but I think it'll work out in the end.
16:11.08herlothen what?  Does Ubuntu have staff enough to write it themselves?
16:11.35Zelutthe manufacturer releases specs and the community maintains the drivers.
16:11.44nearnherlo: that is how it goes with any software project.
16:12.10Zelutbut until Linux has the numbers to vocally demand that it wont happen.  Ubuntu can make it happen by using some non-free in the interim.
16:12.20Zelutits a necessary evil
16:12.50nearnI would just like to note that nicotine gum is a god send.
16:13.08mheathnearn: Indeed it is.
16:13.16mheathHelped me a lot.
16:13.33nearnday 4. woot!
16:13.59mheathGrats
16:14.07mheathTry not to use too much of the gum
16:14.13mheathIt's easier at first that way but harder later on
16:14.27*** part/#ubuntu-us-ut linuxalien (i=UNKNOWN@oalug/member/linuxalien)
16:14.30nearnthis is what i have been doing.
16:15.00nearnI only use it when I think "something I need a something smoke"
16:15.03mheathhow much were you smoking before?
16:15.11nearn15-20 a day.
16:16.13herlosorry, phone call
16:16.27mheathBest of luck to you. You're almost past the trickiest part - you'll start craving less, etc. soon
16:16.28herlomheath: aren't you only 17?
16:16.40mheathherlo: I'm 19.
16:16.55herlomheath: barely old enough to smoke...
16:16.59mheathherlo: I was active US military, though, when I was 17, and started smoking then.
16:17.06herlooops
16:17.20nearnthere needs to be a plug in for jbot where it will replace an "explative' marker with a colorful and pretty words like rainbow and kitty cats.
16:17.21synicweren't you active, for like... a month?
16:17.23herlomheath: ahh, the years of peer pressure
16:17.31mheathsynic: about a year :P
16:17.40mheathherlo: Meh, kind of, I guess.
16:18.22herlomheath: what else would it be?  Smoking isn't really good for anyone :)
16:18.27mheathIt was enjoyable. My job was really high-stress at the time, and it helped......
16:18.34mheathAnd the social aspects were enjoyable.
16:18.35herlofair enough
16:18.39nearnthat is does.
16:18.43bigfoxGentoo is dead.
16:18.47herlopoints back to his statement about peer pressure
16:18.51mheathThey limited where you could smoke on base to a few smoke pads....
16:18.51herlobigfox: lol
16:19.02herlomheath: yeah, I heard that
16:19.03mheathSo, because everoyne always had to go to the same spot, there was always someone out there
16:19.13herloapparently, a lot of places you coulnd't drink either
16:19.14mheathYou could go out at 2AM in the morning and chat while you lit up
16:19.18nearnbigfox: LIES
16:19.34mheathBut, yeah, it was a stupid habit, and I'm glad I quit.
16:19.42herlomheath: is it 2AM? or 2 in the morning?, pick one!
16:19.56mheathherlo: You thought I was 17? :P I'm getting married in 6 weeks!
16:20.04herlomheath: and??
16:20.16herlowas married at 19, I don't recommend it
16:20.21mheathHeh.
16:20.22nearn^^
16:20.36herlonearn: not fast enough, or you are mocking me :)
16:20.42nearnI was in a long term relationship at the age of 21 and boy do i regret it.
16:20.57nearnnot fast enough.
16:21.02herlolol
16:21.05mheathMeh, I love her.
16:21.09nearniRsLoW
16:21.15mheathSure, theres stuff I'd probably like to experience that I can't now.
16:21.19herlomheath: so what is a couple more years then?
16:21.29mheathshrugs
16:21.39herloif she loves you now, and you love her, will that change in two years time?
16:22.04mheathToo late for that now, anyway :-)
16:22.09herlothis, btw, is the argument I got from everyone.  While valid, I was smarter then all of them...
16:22.15mheathOKay, be back in a second...hopping over the the AMD64 livecd
16:22.20herloat age 24, I was dumb again
16:22.33herlomheath: never too late, but I digress...
16:22.46mheathherlo: my mother-in-law-to-be would kill me if we were to call it off now
16:22.47herloback to software FREEDOM! </williamwallace>
16:22.58mheathTheres like...$4,000 in nonrefundable stuff thats already been paid.
16:22.58herlomheath: is your gf pregnant?
16:23.00nearnhahah!
16:23.04mheathNo.
16:23.11nearnlafo to the maxo.
16:23.14herlothen she can do no such thing..
16:23.26herlonearn: ur welcome
16:23.35mheathokay, back to free software ;-)
16:23.58nearno.0 sad.
16:24.15nearnherlo: I think we need to do dinner after all the meetings.
16:24.52nearnI have not laughed that hard in a long time.
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16:26.53herlonearn: usually we do
16:27.11herlonearn: after all ubuntu-utah meets, I've gone to MacCool's
16:30.59mheath_rmtHmm, there we go.
16:31.08mheath_rmtI really need to make it to a Ubuntu-Utah meet.
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16:42.27mheath_rmtHmm, is there a way to intall off the internet but use the LiveCD?
16:42.43mheath_rmtI just found out that there was a small error in burning the CD, apparently...
16:43.01Zelutmheath_rmt: don't think so.. but you could try to use rtorrent or rsync to fix the CD
16:43.29mheath_rmtis the installer hardcoded to copy from the CD, then?
16:43.48Zelutthe liveCD yeah
16:43.53mheath_rmtWhat would happen if I just commented the CD line in the LiveCDs /etc/apt/sources.list?
16:43.56mheath_rmtAh, OK
16:44.55ZelutI would just try to fix the CD via rsync or something.
16:45.12mheath_rmtZelut: Do they have a rsync-accessible copy of the CD somewhere?
16:45.50Zelutmheath_rmt: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RsyncCdImage
16:47.12mheath_rmtOh, no, thats the whole .iso...
16:47.16mheath_rmtI already have the CD burned
16:47.40Zelutthen I'd try jigdo to compare the burn and generate a good .iso
16:47.59mheath_rmtI don't have a working system :P
16:48.10mheath_rmtI was halfway through the install before IF ound out the CD was corrupt (stupid of me, I know)
16:51.21mheath_rmthmm, be right back..
17:02.47mheath_rmtHmm, unionfs is wonderful.
17:10.53nearnherlo: awesome. I will have to join you guys when you go.
17:11.09herlonearn: nice
17:12.52nearnnote: printer techs are really nice guys but wow, some of them are a little slow.
17:16.06mheath_rmtcrosses his finger and prays to the Ubuntu gods
17:49.34fizznearn: you said i used gentoo for a week or less? heh. i ran it on that machine for 8-9 months.
17:56.10nearnfizz: you did?
17:56.23nearnI didn't hear any emerge bitching though.
17:58.45findlayviva la gentoo
17:59.48fizznearn: that's because once i got it all setup it didn't give me many headaches.
18:00.25fizzi quit switched back to ubuntu because i hadn't updated the gentoo box in about 2 months. figured it would be easier to start freash.
18:08.18nearndebates on being a jerk or not.
18:08.24nearnhmmm.
18:08.42nearnwell then, what it sounds like to me is that you never really used gentoo.
18:11.38nearnemerge --update --deep world
18:12.01nearnif you have ran that command then you have ran gentoo.
18:12.09fizzi used it long enough to know i like having more time to myself.
18:12.26fizzif i need an application i'd rather have it install right away and work.
18:12.31nearnmeh, you start to compile and walk away.
18:12.44fizzor i can install, use it, and be done.
18:12.48synicor... you could stay at your computer and do something productive.
18:12.50Zelutnearn: ...or a week
18:12.58fizzsynic: i know, right?
18:14.07nearnand you call your self linux users.
18:14.10synicwhat makes compiling for absolutely no reason a real linux user?
18:14.36fizzseriously.
18:15.00nearnshakes head.
18:15.02findlayyou're just too afraid of the source :-)
18:15.18fizzbecause you like to get things done tomorrow? and we like to get our shit done now?
18:15.32synicis not afraid of the source :P
18:15.36findlaywhat does dung have to do with it?
18:15.43Zelutnearn: when it takes a week to get gnome-lite compiled we've long ago lost productivity.
18:15.46fizzsighs
18:16.26nearnZelut: its your fault for installing it on a 486.
18:16.42synicor... your fault for compiling for no reason.
18:16.53Zelutnearn: as I recall it was a dual-core
18:17.05nearnsynic: I am not listening to you any more.
18:17.15ZelutI have never been able to get a gui setup on gentoo.  stage 3 install is not too tricky, but adding anything useful on top..
18:17.20synicyou mean you have no retorts to my valid arguments?
18:17.41nearnno, its people like you who are making the linux world lazy.
18:17.45fizzyeah, ignoring the voice of reason doesn't make you right.
18:17.52ZelutI'm willing to try again but I'm not holding my breath.
18:18.01nearnfizz: when you have done it then you can talk.
18:18.04synichold on there fruitcake, I ran gentoo for two years.
18:18.10fizznearn: application developers are making the linux world lazy?
18:18.13nearnZelut: next time you do let me know and I will help you.
18:18.15synicand slackware a long time before that
18:18.30Zelutnearn: I'll do it tonite if you want.  Class will be over in three hours.
18:18.38nearnok.
18:18.52nearnI have to be back at the office at 6 but I am free from 3-6
18:19.00fizznearn: i already said i have done it for 8-9 months.
18:19.07nearnfizz: emerge --update --deep world
18:19.09fizzonly one of those months i didn't update
18:19.10Zelutnearn: I have a dual-proc (or hyperthreading) Intel Pentium D 2.8GHz with 4G to test on..
18:19.12nearndo it then talk
18:19.24fizznearn: i did that at least 7 times fruitcake
18:19.32nearnsweet, it really should not take more then 4 hours to compile xorg and a gui.
18:19.32fizzso dont think you are so cool.
18:19.43nearnbut I am, remember?
18:19.48fizznope.
18:19.51fizzdoes not compute
18:20.02nearnits ok fizz
18:20.06Zelutgoes to get the stage 3 install..
18:20.07nearnpats fizzs head.
18:20.15jnbekpasses out FreeBSD CDs
18:20.19fizzawwwww nearn thinks he is better than everyone.
18:20.23fizzhow unusual
18:20.24fizzlol
18:20.37nearnno fizz, just you.
18:20.44fizzsuuuuuuuuuuur.
18:21.05nearnits ok cupcake, every thing will be all right.
18:21.13fizzyou are acting like you are better than synic too.
18:21.29jnbekanyone else having problems with audacious just stopping playback randomly after the upgrade to Hardy?
18:21.30nearnno I listen to synic
18:21.35fizzso dont be a high and mighty faggot. you are just another geek in a geek channel
18:21.40Zelutloosk like 2008.0 is still in beta.. wonder if I should stick to 2007.0
18:21.43synicjnbek: nay
18:21.56nearnlets do the 2008.beta-3
18:21.58Zelutjnbek: sorry, haven't used audacious
18:22.17Zelutnearn: I don't see the beta-3 download
18:22.31nearnfizz: dont get your pannties in a twist just because I egging you on.
18:22.53Zelutnearn: just beta 2
18:22.58nearnhmm.
18:23.11nearnget that I guess.
18:23.21fizznearn: it's cool. keep egging me on and i will continue to use logical thought. oh man i'm going to have a cigarette too.
18:23.27Zelutnearn: minimal I assume
18:23.29fizzsweet. smokey. goodness.
18:23.45nearnyes
18:30.43synicjnbek: tell me about softupdates
18:33.32mheath_rmtThere we go :-)
18:33.36mheath_rmtHopefully this works
18:33.50mheath_rmtSetup a USB drive install media from the broken LiveCD
18:33.55mheath_rmtThis seems to be working OK so far :-)
18:38.15mheath_rmtThis is actually more responsive  than the LiveCD was.
18:53.08synicanyone know a good doc on creating LSB compliant init scripts?
18:55.23Zelutnearn: do I have to burn this .iso or can I export the linuxrc and initrd via PXE?
18:55.52mheath_rmtZelut: Theres docs on doing it via PXE.
18:56.05mheath_rmtAt least there was when I last ran Gentoo a few years ago
18:56.34ZelutI'm just wondering if the installer/initrd supports it.  With Ubuntu you need the pxe-specific kernel to do it.
18:56.54mheath_rmtZelut: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/altinstall.xml#doc_chap4
19:00.16Zelutreading that reminds me how insanely complicated Gentoo is.
19:00.30mheath_rmtHaha
19:00.37mheath_rmtindeed :-)
19:03.00Zelutif I ever ran a Linux shop and one of my admins setup a production server using Gentoo I'd fire him.
19:05.44tapH20gurulol
19:05.55mheath_rmtHahaha
19:06.07mheath_rmtZelut: But the custom compile makes it run faster. We swear! ;-)
19:07.30findlayZelut: what if they ran windows?
19:09.15mheath_rmtmmm
19:09.16Zelutfindlay: they wouldn't be hired in the first place
19:09.29mheath_rmt4154 frames in 5.0 seconds = 830.770 FPS
19:09.39mheath_rmtfull screen glxgears :-)
19:11.04nearnZelut: I would burn the iso.
19:11.28mheath_rmtMan
19:11.37mheath_rmtI still can't figure out why Ubuntu insists my CPU is 1Ghz.
19:11.52mheath_rmt/proc/cpuinfo says both of the procs are 1Ghz when they most certainly are NOT.
19:12.03Zelutnearn: I better go hunting for a CDR then.. I pxe all my classrooms generally.
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21:00.16Zelutwell I think cdrecord just ate my CD :(
21:03.02Zelutis there a USB installer for gentoo because I think cdrecord just ate my last CDR
21:03.35fizzheh.
21:03.47ZelutTrack 01:   55 of   59 MB written (fifo 100%) [buf  91%]  16.1x.
21:03.53Zelutbeen sitting there for 5+min
21:05.06*** mode/#ubuntu-us-ut [+o atoponce] by ChanServ
21:05.08*** topic/#ubuntu-us-ut by atoponce -> http://utah.ubuntu-us.org | Next Meeting: June 14, 2008 | TBD
21:05.10*** mode/#ubuntu-us-ut [-o atoponce] by ChanServ
21:07.05fizzatoponce: get the paypal stuff up! (nag nag nag)
21:07.09fizzheh
21:09.33atoponceheh
21:09.37atoponcek. doing it now
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21:15.55fizzatoponce: no way. really?
21:15.57fizz:)
21:16.19atoponcefizz: yarly
21:16.38fizzwooooo
21:24.18atoponceno, i'm not finished. i don't see how to add images to the menu list
21:25.20atoponceneed to add my paypal button
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22:00.39nearnohh my something something, I think I have to sleep now before I lose it completely.
22:23.04*** part/#ubuntu-us-ut bigfox (n=bigfox@ecelab24.ece.utah.edu)
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23:20.57asadHi everyone.
23:21.09asadIs anyone availible for help. I need a lil :)
23:21.38asadI want to install GRUB on my HD what already has XP on it. Can you tell me the process and I will follow that.
23:22.19penothe installer will take care of it all for you
23:22.38penothe ubuntu installer that is
23:22.49asadbut I dont want to install Ubuntu at the moment. only wanna learn if I wanna do it manually
23:24.03asadok heres the deal. 1. I make a primary partition of ext3 and what to copy on that
23:24.17penonot 100% sure there, since I just let the installer do the magic on a dual boot machine.
23:24.22asad2. at GRUB> what to type to install / or grub-install ?
23:24.42asadok in that case :) can I use the installer and only install GRUB and not UBUNTU ?
23:24.52penoI've never tried
23:25.49asad:) thanks I'll give it a try. DO you know who might be able to help me in this . I tried a couple of grub manuals but only issue I am stuck with in the end is how to use GRUB-INSTALL or GRUB> to setup the boot sector
23:26.41penolooks like you actually want wingrub
23:27.06asadhmm I think I have tried that before . I'l check that out now. Thank you .
23:27.31penoI've never used it, so I don't know if it works. :)
23:27.32asadI was there at the meeting the first time on the release party but didnt really get a chance to meet everyone
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