| 00:15.17 | sontek | Zelut: dup is 'distro upgrade' |
| 00:16.00 | Zelut | sontek: right. that is needed between these RC upgrades, right? |
| 00:16.26 | sontek | Zelut: zypper has different types of packages, package installs new versions, patch only installs updates like bug fixes |
| 00:16.32 | sontek | Zelut: yeah |
| 00:16.58 | Zelut | sontek: so, to keep updated until final, I've been doing zypper update & zypper dup. |
| 00:17.19 | sontek | yeah, its always better to do a clean install, but that'll always get you the latest |
| 00:17.25 | sontek | you'll get another 1100 on june 19th |
| 00:17.36 | Zelut | I was just surprised that nearly *every* package was changed though.. |
| 01:20.27 | herlo | Utah Python Meeting streaming at http://stream.utos.org |
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| 04:14.42 | encryptz | sontek: why is it better to do a clean install? |
| 04:14.54 | encryptz | surely the distro is good enough to do a clean upgrade |
| 04:22.02 | pat3rn51nka0s | I don't think there is a such thing as a CLEAN upgrade, unless you know something I don't |
| 04:22.46 | pat3rn51nka0s | a dirty install or upgrade still leaves some of the old kernel around that (although not very likely) can cause problems down the road |
| 04:23.18 | encryptz | the old kernel better be left behind after and upgrade |
| 04:23.31 | encryptz | i don't want to boot into a kernel panic, and not have something to fall back on |
| 04:24.04 | pat3rn51nka0s | A clean install is the best way to make sure everything in the new kernel works right and then you shouldnt have a kernel panic |
| 04:24.10 | pat3rn51nka0s | what are you upgrading to? |
| 04:24.16 | pat3rn51nka0s | HH? |
| 04:24.32 | Zelut | i don't think thats a valid statement |
| 04:24.53 | encryptz | a clean install means that the install worked, not that the software on the install does |
| 04:25.08 | pat3rn51nka0s | so you think a dirty install will have a more stable kernel |
| 04:25.16 | encryptz | no |
| 04:25.48 | Zelut | what is a 'dirty install'? |
| 04:25.49 | encryptz | i'm saying that if the old kernel is deleted on and upgrade, and the new kernel is bad, then i have to boot into a rescue environment to fix it |
| 04:26.02 | encryptz | s/on and/on an/ |
| 04:26.20 | encryptz | so, the upgrade better not be deleting my old kernel |
| 04:26.27 | encryptz | as it's bootable and working |
| 04:27.14 | encryptz | my whole point is, that there should be no reason to do a fresh install when upgrading versions |
| 04:27.21 | encryptz | that's old news, in the past, history |
| 04:27.30 | encryptz | it's not, and never should have been, an issue |
| 04:28.55 | pat3rn51nka0s | I see where you are going |
| 04:29.53 | linuxalie | I'm see where I'm going....bed. Nite! |
| 04:29.55 | Zelut | i've upgraded my servers from 6.06 -> 6.10 -> 7.04 -> 7.10 -> 8.04 and everything has continued to work just as--better even--than the day it installed. |
| 04:30.01 | sontek | encryptz: the distro can handle a clean upgrade, but its always better to do a clean install |
| 04:30.19 | sontek | encryptz: glibc, gnome changes, etc. effect how apps work |
| 04:30.27 | pat3rn51nka0s | I have always deleted the old kernel after an upgrade, but I understand why you would save the old one |
| 04:30.44 | encryptz | sontek: the package db should be keeping track of all versions, what's getting installed, left orphaned, etc |
| 04:30.46 | sontek | encryptz: and if you don't do a clean install, things *could* go wrong |
| 04:31.13 | pat3rn51nka0s | I still will always prefer (call it the old windows user in me) to do a clean fresh install on every new release |
| 04:31.57 | sontek | encryptz: ours does a better job than apt since it knows the difference between a package upgrade and a patch/bugfix but its still always best to format |
| 04:31.57 | encryptz | sontek: thing could go wrong with a fresh install too |
| 04:32.03 | sontek | encryptz: but it works well without doing it |
| 04:32.20 | encryptz | i disagree |
| 04:32.38 | pat3rn51nka0s | if it is going to go wrong on a fresh it will go wrong on a dirty |
| 04:32.49 | encryptz | all the db needs to know it package versions. if it's an upgrade or a patch, as long as the package is a new version, it should install fine |
| 04:32.50 | pat3rn51nka0s | or upgrade |
| 04:33.36 | encryptz | upgrades were an issue in the past due to bad version tracking. it's a non-issue now |
| 04:34.00 | sontek | encryptz: theres always a chance something can go wrong with left over configs |
| 04:34.16 | sontek | but this is a personal preference thing |
| 04:34.22 | encryptz | yeah |
| 04:34.23 | sontek | the distro supports it if you want to do it |
| 04:34.26 | encryptz | sure |
| 04:34.30 | encryptz | no qualms there |
| 04:34.33 | bmac2 | hey guys |
| 04:34.45 | bmac2 | how goes the wars? |
| 04:34.53 | encryptz | tradewars? |
| 04:34.59 | bmac2 | lol |
| 04:35.04 | encryptz | longs for the bbs days |
| 04:35.05 | bmac2 | that is something I haven't heard of in a while |
| 04:35.10 | bmac2 | in a LONG while |
| 04:35.13 | encryptz | :) |
| 04:36.31 | sontek | encryptz: Zelut: have you guys tried 11.0 much? |
| 04:36.31 | sontek | what are your thoughts on it? |
| 04:36.34 | sontek | I haven't had time to test out 8.04 yet |
| 04:36.37 | encryptz | sontek: i just finished installing it today |
| 04:36.43 | encryptz | i found a possible bug |
| 04:37.09 | encryptz | deselecting "gnome-bluetooth" in the package selection of the install deselects 1/2 the gnome desktop |
| 04:37.22 | encryptz | tons of packages that sholudn't be depending on gnome-bluetooth |
| 04:38.02 | sontek | I just got the leaked rc4, I'll test that |
| 04:38.08 | sontek | that definitely sounds wrong |
| 04:38.15 | encryptz | yeah. it shocked me a bit |
| 04:38.20 | sontek | we only have a week, so need to file it soon if it still exists |
| 04:38.36 | encryptz | i'm on rc1 |
| 04:38.49 | encryptz | not sure if there's been another rc release, or not |
| 04:39.14 | sontek | The last public was rc1 |
| 04:39.20 | encryptz | ok |
| 04:39.30 | sontek | but they did 3 internals, and it went gold master today |
| 04:39.40 | sontek | which is the final internal before the full release |
| 04:40.23 | encryptz | what was the reason for choosing blowfish for the algo on passwd? |
| 04:40.32 | encryptz | i noticed that today as well |
| 04:41.34 | pat3rn51nka0s | you are talking about 8.04 RC's? |
| 04:41.40 | encryptz | (not that that's a bad thing, just curious why the switch) |
| 04:41.47 | encryptz | pat3rn51nka0s: no, opensuse 11rc1 |
| 04:42.01 | sontek | encryptz: i'm not sure why they switched, I don't follow security things to much |
| 04:42.06 | sontek | i'll ask for you though |
| 04:42.27 | encryptz | probably a switch for the better |
| 04:42.50 | encryptz | no doubt it's more secure than md5/sha1, and lighter |
| 04:45.38 | pat3rn51nka0s | I am still learning my way around Linux and I did not know a lot when I tried Suse, so I did not like it, I am only running Ubuntu, but so far I love it! |
| 04:46.23 | pat3rn51nka0s | before Ubuntu I dual booted because I was not comfortable with the Linux OS's but now I am a full Ubuntu user, no dual boot for me |
| 04:46.25 | sontek | yeah, with 10.3 they created livecd's for the first time (mosts distros are no, most likely influenced because of Ubuntu) |
| 04:46.48 | encryptz | pat3rn51nka0s: sweet! welcome to the club! |
| 04:46.59 | sontek | encryptz: suse used blowfish in 10.3 as well |
| 04:47.01 | pat3rn51nka0s | but I even have my Grandma running Ubuntu |
| 04:47.03 | pat3rn51nka0s | thanks |
| 04:47.23 | encryptz | sontek: haven't run 10.3, so didn't know about that. just noticed it in the installer today |
| 04:47.42 | encryptz | i figured it was new |
| 04:47.49 | sontek | encryptz: what does fedora and ubuntu use? |
| 04:47.51 | sontek | just md5? |
| 04:48.01 | encryptz | yeah. with salt |
| 04:48.18 | encryptz | you can change that though |
| 04:48.23 | encryptz | md5 is just default |
| 04:48.47 | pat3rn51nka0s | wasnt blowfish created in conjunction withOpen BSD |
| 04:49.38 | pat3rn51nka0s | can you put blowfish on ubuntu or is that a pretty heavy change |
| 04:53.46 | encryptz | blowfish is just an algorithm. i don't think it was created with openbsd, however, i wouldn't be surprised if it's the default |
| 04:55.05 | encryptz | blowfish is available on ubuntu |
| 04:55.21 | encryptz | but, there's no reason to switch, esp if you're the only one on your box |
| 04:55.29 | pat3rn51nka0s | how do you set it as default on ubuntu |
| 04:55.38 | pat3rn51nka0s | I have 3 users on my box |
| 04:55.42 | encryptz | md5 is plenty secure, and practicality keep it from being a target |
| 04:56.19 | pat3rn51nka0s | mostly I am curious not that I need it |
| 04:56.25 | encryptz | it's changed via a pam module |
| 04:57.21 | encryptz | check /etc/pam.d/common-password |
| 04:57.48 | encryptz | you may have to install the blowfish library. not sure if it's included by default or not |
| 04:57.54 | pat3rn51nka0s | I found a link that walks through it in the ubuntu forums, thanks |
| 04:58.10 | pat3rn51nka0s | you do it is apt-get install libpam-unix2 |
| 04:58.37 | encryptz | ok |
| 04:59.34 | pat3rn51nka0s | I would do it now but I am at work so Unfortunatly I am on XP (depressed) |
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| 05:00.06 | encryptz | really, i wouldn't worry about it |
| 05:00.11 | pat3rn51nka0s | and to go back to md5 you just go back in the module and change it back right |
| 05:00.16 | encryptz | ssh used md5 for it's hashing |
| 05:00.20 | encryptz | yeah |
| 05:00.24 | pat3rn51nka0s | cool |
| 05:00.41 | pat3rn51nka0s | I thought it still used md5 |
| 05:03.25 | pat3rn51nka0s | so I am curious, which do you guys prefer KDE or Gnome |
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| 05:07.33 | encryptz | fluxbox |
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| 05:57.16 | pat3rn51nka0s | does anyone know about canonicle |
| 05:57.31 | pat3rn51nka0s | and the freedom geek league |
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| 06:09.48 | encryptz | canonical is the parent company of ubuntu, like novell is the parent company of suse |
| 06:10.36 | pat3rn51nka0s | I was more wondering if anyone knew about the geek freedom league |
| 06:11.37 | encryptz | never heard of them |
| 06:39.34 | pat3rn51nka0s | I would like to get a group together that was willing to help me and a few friends talk to them and see if they would like to expand their operations to the US |
| 06:41.09 | pat3rn51nka0s | you should look them up. They do some pretty cool stuff and they are all about sharing the Linux Experience. |
| 06:42.28 | pat3rn51nka0s | and they are sanctioned by canonical |
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| 07:08.25 | pat3rn51nka0s | for having 35 users we sure are talkative |
| 07:09.44 | pat3rn51nka0s | encryptz: you are using fluxbox instead of Gnome? |
| 07:09.51 | pat3rn51nka0s | what is the difference |
| 08:36.30 | pat3rn51nka0s | still noone talking huh? |
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| 13:11.58 | encryptz | seriously? |
| 13:12.20 | encryptz | shakes his head |
| 13:16.08 | peno | kids these days |
| 13:43.55 | encryptz | ~onjoin pat3rd51nka0s irc at 1,2,3 in the morning? |
| 13:43.55 | jbot | ok, encryptz |
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| 20:39.07 | nearn | ok, who knows what the nmap flag means in vimrc? |
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