| 00:00.11 | zsoc | PuffTheMagic, the camera service sort of handles video, it's in the code, but they prolly had the same issue with sinking preview and target file at the same time |
| 00:01.27 | Azalyn | what exactly is the situation regarding C apps on the palm pre? the webos-internals wiki seems to indicate that various apps have been ported already.. |
| 00:01.32 | PuffTheMagic | they support video as far as giving you a view finder and have access to a camera |
| 00:01.42 | Azalyn | but officially palm says it only does html/css/javascript |
| 00:01.54 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: if a regular camcorder and record and give a preview so can the pre |
| 00:02.09 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: the camera on my lapop can record and give me a preview too |
| 00:02.16 | chrisa | No one has a C app working in Luna outside of a service, Azalyn |
| 00:02.18 | zsoc | PuffTheMagic, that's an incredibly good point. |
| 00:02.30 | PuffTheMagic | Azalyn: what are you tlaking about |
| 00:02.36 | PuffTheMagic | Azalyn: what have we "ported" |
| 00:03.08 | PuffTheMagic | Azalyn: we have written services and plugins |
| 00:03.13 | PuffTheMagic | services in C and Java |
| 00:03.25 | PuffTheMagic | which extend functionality into the mojo framework |
| 00:03.27 | PuffTheMagic | over dbus |
| 00:03.31 | PuffTheMagic | and plugins |
| 00:03.37 | PuffTheMagic | which are embedded into html |
| 00:03.47 | PuffTheMagic | but we didnt "port" anything |
| 00:04.11 | Azalyn | well, i'm not familiar with the way the development works, which is why i asked. seeing things like doom and the nes emulator seemed to imply that those were native C apps running on the pre. |
| 00:04.32 | chrisa | They are, but via killing off the native ui and using the framebuffer directly |
| 00:04.33 | PuffTheMagic | Azalyn: the pre is a linux box at heart |
| 00:04.37 | chrisa | running in a debian chroot, so not ported |
| 00:04.46 | EvanDotPro | Azalyn: they are running on the pre, just not through luna. |
| 00:04.53 | PuffTheMagic | Azalyn: if you want to leave the luna environment you can run anything you want |
| 00:05.18 | Azalyn | so luna is what the pre uses for display? like what X is on desktops? |
| 00:05.20 | PuffTheMagic | Azalyn: you could run debian or gentoo or ubuntu if you wanted |
| 00:05.48 | PuffTheMagic | Azalyn: no really |
| 00:05.59 | PuffTheMagic | X is an interface between sw and hw |
| 00:05.59 | zsoc | Azalyn, don't try to wrap your head around it, Apparently what luna/mojo does it pretty much magic to us non-genius folk :P |
| 00:06.09 | PuffTheMagic | Azalyn: luna is more like gnome/kde |
| 00:06.13 | PuffTheMagic | than it is like X |
| 00:06.35 | PuffTheMagic | gnome could use direcfb or X |
| 00:06.39 | PuffTheMagic | luna uses directfb |
| 00:06.44 | PuffTheMagic | no X |
| 00:07.02 | zsoc | Although that would be interesting, if you could load luna over X |
| 00:07.15 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: if you had the source |
| 00:07.27 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: and wrote an X driver for or the pre hw |
| 00:07.34 | zsoc | Right, I assumed that would be necessary :P |
| 00:07.34 | PuffTheMagic | or used the fb driver in X |
| 00:07.37 | PuffTheMagic | then u could run X |
| 00:07.50 | zsoc | reverse engineers luna |
| 00:07.56 | PuffTheMagic | good luck |
| 00:07.59 | zsoc | lol |
| 00:08.03 | PuffTheMagic | i'd rather run qt4/kde4 |
| 00:08.03 | PuffTheMagic | :D |
| 00:08.06 | zsoc | heh |
| 00:08.10 | PuffTheMagic | in fact, i might make that happen |
| 00:08.23 | EvanDotPro | PuffTheMagic: Theoretically, we could create a service that somehow relays pixel information through to mojo, then redraw the pixels using canvas, but that's assuming the Pre's canvas implementation is good enough, and also it would perform HORRIBLY, so it would be no good for NES, Doom, etc... just a thought. |
| 00:08.42 | PuffTheMagic | EvanDotPro: no not a service |
| 00:08.44 | PuffTheMagic | a plugin maybe |
| 00:08.50 | EvanDotPro | Plugin, yeah. |
| 00:09.00 | bougyman | if you stop luna and start X from debian it works fine, doesn't it? |
| 00:09.05 | PuffTheMagic | EvanDotPro: palm already has a graphics lib |
| 00:09.09 | PuffTheMagic | call Pirahana |
| 00:09.14 | PuffTheMagic | that uses glib |
| 00:09.17 | PuffTheMagic | or wx |
| 00:09.25 | PuffTheMagic | or what ever exists on the system |
| 00:09.33 | PuffTheMagic | to do 2d stuff |
| 00:09.34 | Azalyn | hm, so is this just a current situation due to lack of info, or is luna really designed in a way that will never allow a native C app to display within webos? |
| 00:09.39 | PuffTheMagic | but they didnt give us the headers |
| 00:09.45 | PuffTheMagic | so we cant really use it |
| 00:09.49 | PuffTheMagic | libpirahana |
| 00:09.49 | Azalyn | will we always have to kill luna to get native stuff working? |
| 00:09.50 | bougyman | the problem with X on the Pre for most users is the lack of mouse driver. |
| 00:10.04 | PuffTheMagic | Azalyn: no, not if you use a plugin |
| 00:10.16 | bougyman | i don't care about that, ratpoison/stumpwm work fine on it. |
| 00:10.21 | Azalyn | hm |
| 00:10.23 | bougyman | and they don't need the rodent. |
| 00:10.28 | chrisa | A C app is not going to directly integrate with Luna at this time, whether support will be added is something no one knows |
| 00:10.46 | PuffTheMagic | but a C/C++ plugin already can |
| 00:10.54 | Azalyn | would a plugin have any performance issues, like EvanDotPro mentioned? |
| 00:10.57 | PuffTheMagic | so if you can convert an app to a plugin framework it wworks fine |
| 00:11.02 | PuffTheMagic | thats how terminal works |
| 00:11.10 | EvanDotPro | Azalyn: yeah, it would perform pretty bad I would assume. |
| 00:11.15 | PuffTheMagic | Azalyn: depends on how you do it |
| 00:11.36 | PuffTheMagic | Azalyn: are you using palms libpirahana or direcfb or are you drawing to the pixbuf pixel by pixel |
| 00:11.40 | PuffTheMagic | it all depends |
| 00:11.46 | PuffTheMagic | plugins have potential |
| 00:11.54 | Decimation__ | i fell asleep :/ |
| 00:11.58 | PuffTheMagic | but the graphics interface in them needs work |
| 00:12.06 | zsoc | Yeah, how _does_ Terminal work anyway? |
| 00:12.13 | zsoc | Decimation__, no one asked you ;) |
| 00:12.17 | Azalyn | chrisa: so they'd have to explicitly allow this.. i just figured maybe luna had some undocumented api, that could be used or something.. i don't know. |
| 00:12.22 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: there is a plugin for terminal |
| 00:12.31 | PuffTheMagic | which is like xterm wrapped up in a ns/gecko plugin |
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| 00:12.38 | PuffTheMagic | which draws to a pixbuff |
| 00:12.51 | PuffTheMagic | and listens for events from the browser |
| 00:12.53 | chrisa | terminal passes commands over the bus that are captured via a plugin service using a bunch of old mozilla/yahoo code to run commands and pass the buffers back |
| 00:12.54 | PuffTheMagic | then there is the mojo part |
| 00:12.58 | PuffTheMagic | which embeds the plugin |
| 00:13.10 | PuffTheMagic | chrisa: no we dont use a bus here |
| 00:13.10 | zsoc | That's actually ridiculous. |
| 00:13.23 | PuffTheMagic | plugin != service |
| 00:13.26 | PuffTheMagic | services us dbus |
| 00:13.29 | PuffTheMagic | plugins "could" |
| 00:13.32 | PuffTheMagic | but dont need to |
| 00:13.34 | zsoc | Yeah Puff, correct those devs, then they'll come back ;) |
| 00:13.39 | EvanDotPro | PuffTheMagic: ohh, the terminal uses a pixel buffer, not just JS? |
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| 00:13.51 | Azalyn | according to this.. it seems all the kernel stuff is open, except for those three binary modules. http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Custom_Kernels#Download.2C_patch.2C_configure.2C_and_build_the_kernel. |
| 00:13.59 | EvanDotPro | checks out terminal in git. |
| 00:14.00 | chrisa | I was under the impression it was a service, not specifically a plugin. Considering how people use 'brick' and 'root' in here I never know |
| 00:14.05 | PuffTheMagic | EvanDotPro: yeah termpluin draws directly to a pixbuf that represend some area of the card |
| 00:14.14 | PuffTheMagic | chrisa: :D |
| 00:14.30 | EvanDotPro | chrisa: haha |
| 00:15.00 | PuffTheMagic | chrisa: naa termplugin is a real browser plugin, just about everting else we have done non-mojo based is a service though |
| 00:15.05 | EvanDotPro | PuffTheMagic: well that's interesting... sounds like pretty much what I was saying about passing pixel data through. |
| 00:15.09 | Azalyn | am i correct in assuming that if someone implements free/libre versions of those three drivers, that we could have a full free software system on it? |
| 00:15.21 | PuffTheMagic | EvanDotPro: someone is trying to make a direcfb wrapper for the plugin stuff |
| 00:15.35 | PuffTheMagic | so directfb apps would work easily |
| 00:15.39 | PuffTheMagic | with out changes |
| 00:15.55 | PuffTheMagic | and i beleive the pixbuf is glib/gdk |
| 00:15.55 | JamesBaud | does anyone know how the icons on the launcher pages are stored? |
| 00:16.03 | PuffTheMagic | since there is no other graphics libs on the pre |
| 00:16.04 | JamesBaud | like, the order they are in |
| 00:16.17 | PuffTheMagic | so if you can fiture out how to reverse enginerr the libpirahana headers |
| 00:16.25 | PuffTheMagic | we could use glib for 2d also |
| 00:16.33 | PuffTheMagic | s/fiture/figure/ |
| 00:17.24 | Azalyn | i'm also wondering if there's an irc client on webos. :| |
| 00:17.36 | EvanDotPro | PuffTheMagic: hmmm interesting. |
| 00:17.40 | JamesBaud | i want to rearrange the icons on my launcher pages, i think it will take me about 20mins to do what i want, there has to be a easier way!? |
| 00:17.53 | PuffTheMagic | Azalyn: im about to start an irc service |
| 00:18.11 | PuffTheMagic | Azalyn: and oil and i have already designed/planned/discussed the mojo gui for it |
| 00:18.14 | zsoc | irssi *does* work |
| 00:18.16 | PuffTheMagic | stay tuned |
| 00:18.24 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: irssi is crap |
| 00:18.30 | PuffTheMagic | hides from the irssi fanboys |
| 00:19.08 | Azalyn | well, if that terminal app works.. i'm guessing irssi could run.. |
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| 00:19.13 | Azalyn | but yeah.. heh |
| 00:19.35 | chrisa | oh ok, so people just built over the NPAPI terminal plugin for webkit |
| 00:19.50 | PuffTheMagic | chrisa: what do you mean built over? |
| 00:20.09 | chrisa | well, I don't want to say port since that's a misnomer |
| 00:20.57 | Azalyn | by the way, how is the keyboard? people seem conflicted over it. |
| 00:21.13 | PuffTheMagic | chrisa: we took a generic NPAPI plugin template and added the missing mojo functions to it |
| 00:21.18 | PuffTheMagic | then added terminal functionality |
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| 00:22.21 | tlz | PuffTheMagic: do you happen to know where the code for the lock screen is? |
| 00:22.31 | tlz | i wanna see if there's a way to remove that emergency call button |
| 00:22.32 | tlz | lol |
| 00:22.53 | PuffTheMagic | yeah is in the applications folder |
| 00:22.57 | PuffTheMagic | palm/applications |
| 00:23.00 | PuffTheMagic | screenandlock |
| 00:23.02 | PuffTheMagic | something like that |
| 00:23.05 | zsoc | tlz, that would be illegal according to the FCC. |
| 00:23.25 | tlz | damnit |
| 00:23.40 | tlz | ive dialled 911 like 3 times today |
| 00:23.47 | zsoc | tlz, you could probably further lock it, or have it be like a "switch", or have it ask you "Are you sure" or have it bring up a dialer that only accepts "911" as an entry |
| 00:23.49 | ajames | the top switch silencing the camera noise is technically illegal :P |
| 00:23.55 | zsoc | ajames, no it isn't |
| 00:24.02 | ajames | isn't it? |
| 00:24.02 | zsoc | ajames, that's a bill, and it'll never get passed |
| 00:24.07 | ajames | ah |
| 00:24.09 | zsoc | ajames, in Japan it's illegal :P |
| 00:24.09 | ajames | i hope not |
| 00:24.50 | zsoc | There's also a bill in congress right now that would force every home to keep 3 years worth of internet data on file, logs of every packet. It's so unfeasible it's laughable at best. Congress is full of great things. |
| 00:25.10 | thatdude | zsoc: wtf! |
| 00:25.43 | zsoc | thatdude, unfortunately, they figure "no harm no foul" if a bill floats around that's ridiculous. But it makes America look like clowns. just imho i suppose. |
| 00:26.02 | tlz | so would the fcc be pissed if i removed the button completely |
| 00:26.03 | tlz | lol |
| 00:26.13 | zsoc | And sorry, apparently it was 2 years, not 3. |
| 00:26.59 | zsoc | tlz, the point is not that they could find out. But if you happen to pull out your phone on a train with a bigshot government guy next to you, it could get messy :) prolly not on topic anyway. |
| 00:27.04 | chrisa | People propose bunk bills all the time |
| 00:27.08 | chrisa | But they'll not pass |
| 00:27.37 | tlz | lol |
| 00:33.33 | zsoc | and my debian chroot is now up to 2G |
| 00:37.31 | zsoc | or will be if resize2fs ever finishes |
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| 00:41.27 | tlz | hmmm |
| 00:41.36 | jettero | where is that file full of emoticons? |
| 00:42.04 | zsoc | yeah, i want to make a patch that rm's it |
| 00:42.21 | zsoc | why does it catch ^_^? the image doesn't even look like it |
| 00:42.40 | zsoc | also, if you're typing IN ALL CAPS. The auto correct, corrects in lowercase letters. That's a bug I'd say. |
| 00:43.44 | zsoc | Does anyone know how compositing is handled on the Pre? Should I assume it's Indirect Rendering? |
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| 00:48.23 | rwhitby | Can anyone see any reason why I should not purchase a "bad esn" Pre from Ebay ? Is there any stigma attached (like it being stolen or something)? |
| 00:49.49 | oil | has no clue |
| 00:49.54 | rawdr | could be stolen.... suppose you could ask the seller why the esn is bad |
| 00:50.24 | tlz | hmm |
| 00:50.34 | zsoc | doesn't blame rwhitby for being cautious |
| 00:51.17 | rawdr | Other "bad esn" devices are ones where the previous owner didn't pay their bill and don't want to. Sprint won't release the phone til they do |
| 00:51.17 | EvanDotPro | rwhitby: either stolen or an insurance claim. |
| 00:51.27 | ajames | fell off a truck |
| 00:51.40 | EvanDotPro | rwhitby: or "found" if you distinguish that from stolen.... |
| 00:52.07 | zsoc | rawdr, actually, the esn gets released once it's written off |
| 00:52.17 | rwhitby | hmm - all of those things sound like something that one might not want to be associated with ... |
| 00:52.27 | zsoc | listen to raw, atleast the first part of his answer was right |
| 00:52.35 | rawdr | when does it get written off? |
| 00:52.38 | zsoc | insists bad esns have nothing to do with theft or insurance claims |
| 00:53.02 | EvanDotPro | zsoc: really? why do you say that? |
| 00:53.24 | zsoc | EvanDotPro, because that's the correct answer? |
| 00:53.37 | rwhitby | zsoc: I'm considering not only the actual facts of bad esn's but also the general stigma that people not in the industry may associated (perhaps incorrectly) with bad esn devices. |
| 00:53.51 | rwhitby | I don't want to need to be in a position of justifying something to someone ... |
| 00:53.59 | zsoc | rwhitby, so buy a not bad esn device that just happens to have a bad esn unbeknownst to anyone? |
| 00:54.35 | zsoc | nevermind, i keep forgetting you have to consider these things when you're important. |
| 00:54.47 | EvanDotPro | zsoc: haha, well i believe you, but i was wondering how come sprint wouldn't blacklist an esn on a phone that was claimed to the insurance or reported stolen |
| 00:54.48 | rwhitby | zsoc: that's a very good point - how does one verify that an esn is good or bad before purchase? |
| 00:55.10 | zsoc | EvanDotPro, because the esns aren't tracked |
| 00:55.11 | rawdr | you can call sprint and ask |
| 00:55.21 | zsoc | rwhitby, you call sprint, say "hey i want to buy a phone with this esn, is it free for activation" |
| 00:56.16 | rwhitby | zsoc: ok, so it's well known that phones with good esn's are traded openly and freely, and sprint has no problem activating one of those? |
| 00:56.25 | EvanDotPro | zsoc: interesting, i did not know that. |
| 00:56.53 | rawdr | yeah |
| 00:57.20 | rawdr | you can call anytime and do an esn swap, no questions asked |
| 00:57.41 | rawdr | unless it's blacklisted |
| 00:57.46 | zsoc | rwhitby, yes, very well known, and Sprint is better about it than other american wireless carriers |
| 01:00.11 | rwhitby | zsoc: and is there any problem with a phone esn remaining inactive for a very long time? is that flagged in any way? |
| 01:00.21 | rwhitby | (a good esn that is) |
| 01:00.42 | rwhitby | I presume ESNs are not tied to carriers but to hardware manufacturers? |
| 01:00.53 | Eguy | Carriers |
| 01:01.10 | zsoc | rwhitby, the answer to the first question is no, the answer to the second question is both, techincally, but only the carrier in actuality |
| 01:01.11 | rawdr | doubtful they would care to notice.... for instance I could buy two phones and have one as a backup, sitting in my drawer for years |
| 01:01.17 | rwhitby | so the ESN programmed into a device is a number which is allocated to a specific carrier? |
| 01:01.20 | Eguy | The ESN is like the IMEI |
| 01:01.24 | zsoc | enjoys the rolereversal of rod asking him questions |
| 01:01.25 | Eguy | of CDMA |
| 01:01.58 | rwhitby | right - IMEI is tied to the hardware manufacturer, not a specific carrier - it is mapped to a carrier by a sim card in GSM |
| 01:02.08 | zsoc | er, actually most CDMA phones have MEIDs, which is an IMEI, more or less. ESN is rather an antiquated term |
| 01:02.10 | rwhitby | and I presume an ESN is mapped to a carrier by activation in CDMA land |
| 01:02.22 | Eguy | Yes |
| 01:02.34 | Eguy | thanks for the correction |
| 01:02.50 | Eguy | there is the ESN, MEID, and MSID |
| 01:02.53 | Eguy | for CDMA |
| 01:02.54 | rwhitby | but the actual ESN number is allocated by the hardware manufacturer, and can be used on any carrier (assuming the carrier is willing to activate it)? |
| 01:03.01 | Eguy | Yes sir |
| 01:03.47 | zsoc | Uh, no. |
| 01:03.51 | Eguy | No? |
| 01:04.07 | Eguy | you can use a Sprint phone on VZW if they will take the ESN |
| 01:04.17 | rwhitby | So a Palm Pre ESN will come from a different number range depending on whether it will be distributed through Sprint or BellMo? |
| 01:04.45 | rwhitby | Or is the ESN just imprinted in the phone with no knowledge of which carrier it will be activated on? |
| 01:04.47 | zsoc | Eguy, No you can't |
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| 01:04.54 | EvanDotPro | zsoc: i have 4 verizon phones activated on alltel (long before the merger) |
| 01:05.05 | Eguy | yes you can zsoc |
| 01:05.08 | Eguy | I have done it |
| 01:05.13 | zsoc | Only if they are reprogrammed |
| 01:05.25 | Eguy | Yeah |
| 01:05.37 | Eguy | but they will still work |
| 01:05.55 | zsoc | Well it's similar to unlocking, which is in the realm of "fishy" that rod is trying to avoid |
| 01:06.03 | Eguy | MEID = new version of ESN btw for you un-cdma folk |
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| 01:06.21 | Eguy | They ran out of ESN numbers |
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| 01:07.17 | zsoc | The only 2 CDMA carriers left in America or Sprint and Verizon, and neither will activate the other's phone, regardless of whether it'll work or not. |
| 01:07.48 | Eguy | not knowingly ;) |
| 01:08.03 | Eguy | I have used a Sprint 700wx on VZW and it worked fine |
| 01:08.11 | rawdr | I wouldn't say you have any allegiance to the carrier regarding the actual phone, so I wouldn't call it fishy |
| 01:08.54 | EvanDotPro | zsoc: the master dealer web interface for sprint doesn't absolutely reject "bad" ESN's last time i checked about 7 or 8 months ago (friend is a dealer), it just warns them but lets them continue. |
| 01:08.55 | zsoc | Clearly the device is provided, by the manufacture, for a specific carrier. Most phones are even _branded_. How would you say there is no allegiance there? |
| 01:09.38 | rawdr | Because you buy the phone, it's yours. Even if there's a contract it's only tied to your account |
| 01:09.55 | zsoc | EvanDotPro, define 'master dealer web interface'? because if it's p2k we're getting into proprietary territory. |
| 01:10.27 | zsoc | rawdr, dealers are paid under the assumption that you keep your hardware on your account, atleast for an extent of time |
| 01:11.10 | zsoc | rawdr, i'm not saying there's anything wrong with trying to convert it, i'm just saying it doesn't happen very often. and for rod's sake im playing devil's advocate |
| 01:11.11 | rawdr | It doesn't make any difference to them what hardware you use so long as you pay your bill. Which is why they allow you to swap ESNs |
| 01:11.40 | rwhitby | zsoc: so how do I purchase a device which sprint, the dealers, the police ;-), and palm are all happy for me to have, and there is no implied "payment owing" to anyone? |
| 01:11.46 | zsoc | rawdr, to them, right, but you have an additional contract with the store you purchase the phone from. and actually, you have different 'rights' whether you purchase from a store or from sprint sales directly, contract is different |
| 01:12.07 | zsoc | rwhitby, like i said before, i don't see any implied problems at all, no matter what you do, but it's about perspective i suppose. |
| 01:12.22 | rawdr | What contract? You just agree to pay $X for a piece of equipment |
| 01:12.27 | EvanDotPro | zsoc: honestly, i don't know what it is... it's just whatever web interface the retailers use to activate phones / plans / etc... my friend runs a little independant cell retail store in a strip mall. |
| 01:12.58 | EvanDotPro | zsoc: he calls it master dealer something, so i was just regurgitating his terminology, lol. |
| 01:13.13 | Eguy | rawdr: yes, for a period of time 1/2 years |
| 01:13.42 | zsoc | heh. technically you can add bad esns in p2k, but it's strickly prohibited under any circumstances, and they are tracked and filtered out into reports by LP |
| 01:14.12 | rawdr | Eguy: huh? a 6 month contract? |
| 01:14.18 | rwhitby | so what's the cost of an off-contract Pre ? |
| 01:14.19 | Azalyn | all i've understood from all of this is that cdma is a pain in the ass. :| |
| 01:14.30 | Eguy | No 1 year or 2 year contract |
| 01:14.42 | rawdr | that's just for your sprint account, not the phone |
| 01:14.45 | Eguy | rwhitby: $550 for Sprint |
| 01:14.46 | zsoc | rawdr, if you cancel your account 60 days from setting it up, you have to bring your equipment back to the dealer, or send it back to sprint, according to the contract you sign or agree to |
| 01:14.46 | rawdr | it seems to me anyway |
| 01:14.49 | Azalyn | in canada they say 300 bucks for the no-contract pre. |
| 01:15.01 | zsoc | rwhitby, define cost. |
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| 01:15.22 | rawdr | but if I keep the account, on any or no phone and keep paying the bill, the hardware is mine. it seems to me anyway |
| 01:15.31 | zsoc | rawdr, that's correct, yes |
| 01:15.35 | Eguy | yes |
| 01:15.41 | Eguy | you don't have to return it |
| 01:15.45 | rwhitby | zsoc: the amount of money I can pay to an official dealer who is authorised by Sprint or BellMo to sell a Pre, and not have any ongoing cost associated with owning that inactivated hardware. |
| 01:15.52 | Eguy | you don't get a rebate though |
| 01:15.56 | Azalyn | hm, or so i thought... |
| 01:16.04 | EvanDotPro | zsoc: insurance fraud aside, could i claim my pre stolen and pay the $100 deductible for my new one, and mail my "stolen" one to rod? very hypothetical since that's obviously insusrance fraud... just asking. |
| 01:16.10 | zsoc | rawdr, technically the hardware is yours anyway, they will never, ever, ever fight you for it. ever. contracts are meaningless anyway. |
| 01:16.13 | rawdr | you do get the rebate - that's why you're in contract |
| 01:16.33 | Eguy | rwhitby: it's still $550 for a Pre with no strings attached ;) |
| 01:16.36 | zsoc | rwhitby, different in different dealers, also different dealers have different costs for themselves, as they purchase different amounts from sprint (and yes, sprint, not palm) |
| 01:16.42 | Eguy | (the Sprint one that is) |
| 01:16.58 | *** join/#webos-internals Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 01:16.58 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v Sargun] by ChanServ |
| 01:17.06 | zsoc | EvanDotPro, yes, and that's actually a federal crime in american, because sprint's insurance is _literally_ insurance. you can't sell it without being a licensed insurance agent in some states |
| 01:17.18 | rwhitby | Eguy: I think I need to have one of those "no strings attached" type of Pre. |
| 01:17.28 | tlz | lol |
| 01:17.34 | ajames | if palm sold discounted equipment to devs, i'd probably get a second pre just for development |
| 01:17.38 | Eguy | Although I my uncle got a Pre from palm directly for $550 |
| 01:17.51 | EvanDotPro | zsoc: lol i know, that's why i emphasized the hypothetical part. |
| 01:17.52 | zsoc | $550 is probably near cost for most dealers, so i could see that. |
| 01:18.09 | Eguy | heh now it is $149 with 2 year contract |
| 01:18.26 | Azalyn | ajames: so you have one? what do you think of the keyboard? heh. i asked here earlier but i'm not sure if anyone saw the question. |
| 01:18.28 | zsoc | egaudet, as of this morning :) |
| 01:18.33 | zsoc | er, eguy, even |
| 01:18.38 | zsoc | stop having your names be so close |
| 01:18.48 | Eguy | hah |
| 01:19.04 | Eguy | I have been Eguy for many many many many years ;) |
| 01:19.42 | Eguy | I am curious what the Pixi will cost since it is designed for teens |
| 01:19.51 | chrisa | ... teens? |
| 01:20.00 | rwhitby | So, what is the best means of getting the most cost-effective "no strings attached" Pre hardware? |
| 01:20.22 | Eguy | well chrisa: It is a lot like the Centro |
| 01:20.28 | Eguy | a low cost smartphone |
| 01:20.34 | egaudet | stop being 2-letter lazy! |
| 01:20.35 | chrisa | You're mistaking mass market as "teenagers" |
| 01:20.39 | zsoc | chrisa, ... adolescents? |
| 01:20.43 | egaudet | :P |
| 01:20.55 | Eguy | So teens happen to like that part of the market |
| 01:21.16 | rwhitby | there's a big market for high-end feature phones / low end smartphones outside of the teen market. |
| 01:21.17 | zsoc | rwhitby, maybe check into canadian unactivated prices.. i know nothing about it and it could be cheaper |
| 01:21.35 | Eguy | Probably, I think I have been in LA too long |
| 01:21.53 | Eguy | every teenager has the top of the line BB/iPhone |
| 01:21.58 | chrisa | The project I've spent a year on isn't a teen phone |
| 01:22.15 | zsoc | chrisa, you didn't design the hardware tho :P |
| 01:22.31 | rwhitby | zsoc: you mean form factor, right? |
| 01:22.48 | Eguy | yes |
| 01:22.48 | zsoc | right, sorry, form factor, forgot what type of people i'm talking to, generally i have to laymen everything |
| 01:23.07 | Eguy | what type of people are we zsoc? |
| 01:23.28 | zsoc | egaudet, intelligent, arrogant, developers? :> |
| 01:23.39 | Eguy | fail again |
| 01:23.52 | egaudet | ping me one more time zsoc! |
| 01:23.54 | rwhitby | Eguy: people who know enough to access an IRC channel. that's the only assumption you can make ;-) |
| 01:23.57 | chrisa | There is a huge market for non-topend smart phones |
| 01:24.04 | bpadalino | chrisa, how does it feel to work on something that so many people really like ? |
| 01:24.10 | zsoc | egaudet, crap i'm so sorry, i feel like a doofus :( |
| 01:24.18 | rwhitby | chrisa: yep, it's the fastest growing segment isn't it? |
| 01:24.36 | egaudet | lol it's cool, make me feel special for a moment when the xchat starts blinking |
| 01:24.41 | chrisa | bpadalino: It would feel better if our stock went up instead of down when we announce products |
| 01:24.42 | Eguy | chrisa: It is the first non apple phone not entriely bashed to pieces on Engadget ;) |
| 01:24.48 | zsoc | chrisa, i agree there, i believe the pixi will be good for people who want smartphones without the nonsense. right now really the HTC Snap is the only good low end sprint offering. or the 8330. |
| 01:25.18 | chrisa | I wasn't around for the centro, but look at how many units moved for what people seemed to think was a mostly mediocre phone |
| 01:25.21 | bpadalino | chrisa, i think the market was upset there isn't a GSM one to open your distribution up to the rest of the world .. |
| 01:25.38 | Eguy | chrisa: Not true, the Centro worked unlike the 700p |
| 01:25.41 | *** part/#webos-internals nebula1 (n=nebula@75.147.41.4) |
| 01:25.50 | chrisa | I know nothing of the treo lines, though I do own a pro |
| 01:26.02 | zsoc | centro was pretty terrible, but a lot of people loved it. heck, i loved it and i didn't even use one |
| 01:26.18 | Eguy | I liked mine, it lasted me 2 years |
| 01:26.27 | Eguy | and still works |
| 01:26.48 | bpadalino | chrisa, also - i think the market sees the intimate relationship with sprint as a bad thing since it's not as big as att or verizon .. limiting your market exposure |
| 01:27.02 | zsoc | i've actually seen a centro that was literally melted. the whole top half, 1/4 of the screen, and part of the boards. still worked some how |
| 01:27.04 | chrisa | The most important thing to note is that I am ridiculously clumsy and both the pre and pixie have survived falls onto concrete for me |
| 01:27.24 | chrisa | well, maybe not riduculously, but clumsy at the most amusing times for everyone else |
| 01:27.48 | rawdr | the pre is a slippery mofo |
| 01:27.48 | zsoc | bpadalino, Sprint wouldn't be smaller than those companies if ATT didn't buy Cingular/CellOne and Verizon didn't buy Alltel |
| 01:27.50 | bpadalino | chrisa, can you put a driver hook into the hidd to make the button push act like a back gesture instead? i promise i won't tell anyone about it |
| 01:28.04 | tlz | heh |
| 01:28.28 | zsoc | destinal_, yello joe |
| 01:29.13 | chrisa | bpadalino: only if you convince geist to give me omap boards he's not using anymore |
| 01:29.32 | chrisa | Lets be honest, probably not even then |
| 01:29.37 | bpadalino | :( |
| 01:29.54 | bpadalino | i didn't realize geist was a omap board hoarder! |
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| 01:30.16 | destinal_ | bpadalino: make which button act like what? |
| 01:30.20 | bpadalino | all my test equipment at work is off to calibration .. all i have is a spectrum analyzer :( |
| 01:30.32 | bpadalino | destinal_: button push (center) act like back gesture ... |
| 01:30.41 | chrisa | I do power work and I don't have my own scope or meter, if it makes you feel better |
| 01:30.50 | chrisa | I may ask to expense some soon though... |
| 01:30.51 | destinal_ | bpadalino: we'll get there |
| 01:30.54 | bpadalino | chrisa, a little bit |
| 01:31.12 | bpadalino | chrisa, i was working on some IQ calibration stuff earlier so spectrum analyzer was all i needed |
| 01:31.22 | destinal_ | hidd and plugins are only mysterious for the moment |
| 01:31.36 | tlz | i think we all should put our heads together and figure out how to get rid of that emergency call button |
| 01:31.38 | chrisa | I only usually need to watch i2c/w1 lines |
| 01:31.40 | bpadalino | does the hidd serve a socket ? |
| 01:31.48 | chrisa | tlz: Can't you just edit it out of the js? |
| 01:31.56 | bpadalino | i actually hate working with w1 .. it's kind of ridiculous |
| 01:31.56 | zsoc | tlz, again, we like the FCC here. they are listening i'm sure anyway |
| 01:31.56 | chrisa | I swear there was a mod for this already in the past |
| 01:32.01 | tlz | lol |
| 01:32.04 | bpadalino | spi or i2c are a little better |
| 01:32.10 | destinal_ | bpadalino: the plugin and hidd communicate with each other over a socket |
| 01:32.15 | tlz | chrisa, ive been searching, but i cant find anything to edit |
| 01:32.16 | chrisa | bpadalino: w1 is fun when you have to bitbang the line |
| 01:32.26 | destinal_ | bpadalino: err maybe that's hidd and luna |
| 01:32.31 | chrisa | and get microsecond timing accuracy |
| 01:32.34 | bpadalino | chrisa, i work with FPGA's all day so everything is bitbanging |
| 01:32.34 | destinal_ | or maybe both |
| 01:32.41 | bpadalino | and my timing is impeccable ! |
| 01:33.08 | bpadalino | but to do it with a micro .. that's got to be rough |
| 01:33.24 | destinal_ | w1? |
| 01:33.28 | bpadalino | one-wire |
| 01:33.32 | bpadalino | usually for battery interfaces |
| 01:33.38 | destinal_ | ah |
| 01:33.55 | chrisa | maxim seems to have a monopoly on the translators, and they're pricey |
| 01:34.13 | bpadalino | which is surprising - since everything else maxim makes is cheap |
| 01:35.01 | bpadalino | i want to make a modem board one of these days with a max19713 AFE (dual 45Msps ADC/DAC, some low-speed ADC/DAC for power monitoring and vctcxo correction, etc) .. it's like $10 |
| 01:35.04 | bpadalino | super cheap part |
| 01:35.12 | bpadalino | very fully featured |
| 01:35.52 | tlz | hmmm |
| 01:36.04 | bpadalino | chrisa, how do you like the rubberized feel of the pixi ? |
| 01:36.31 | chrisa | I've always had an inductive back, so I honestly don't know |
| 01:36.34 | tlz | i found a thing in pincode.css, for .emergency-button-div { |
| 01:36.43 | tlz | should i add a visible: false; in there somewhere lol |
| 01:36.52 | zsoc | tlz, I'm still suggesting you don't do this |
| 01:37.06 | tlz | ok |
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| 01:37.17 | destinal_ | chrisa: well, it's nice that the touchstone stuff isn't pre only |
| 01:37.32 | destinal_ | I guess it wouldn't make much sense if it were |
| 01:37.40 | bpadalino | i have to say, the touchstone is really pretty great for charging .. i hate plugging devices in .. though i would have probably been just as happy with a magjack ala apple laptop fame |
| 01:38.06 | destinal_ | seriously prefers the touchstone backplate for the pre to the stock one, by far |
| 01:38.36 | bpadalino | me too destinal |
| 01:38.37 | bpadalino | by far |
| 01:38.50 | zsoc | I might just buy the back, don't own a touchstone |
| 01:39.24 | destinal_ | zsoc: it's worth it to just get the kit |
| 01:39.26 | bpadalino | chrisa, so are you the one who deals with powerd then since you're doing power measurements ? |
| 01:39.51 | bpadalino | using sense resistors to figure out how much current each piece is drawing ? |
| 01:40.24 | zsoc | So my pre hangs when i run resize2fs for 1500M, although 1G worked fine. just on a file in /media/internal, nothing else, any ideas? |
| 01:41.51 | bpadalino | our board designers never put in the current sensing resistors for each of the power supplies .. so we end up having to hack the boards up and put current probes around wires |
| 01:42.04 | chrisa | no, powerd is the os team |
| 01:42.47 | bpadalino | ah |
| 01:43.02 | bpadalino | what types of scopes do you generally use at work ? |
| 01:43.13 | chrisa | I didn't do measurements for this project, I just did charging |
| 01:43.30 | chrisa | and I don't know a whole lot about scopes, just how to use the couple I've used |
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| 01:43.34 | zsoc | I want to know who's decision it was to use upstart, i need to hug him |
| 01:43.52 | bpadalino | ah .. i had a nice setup until cal took it away .. |
| 01:44.31 | bpadalino | MSO8104A scope, E4438C waveform generator and ... i can't even remember the model number of the spectrum analyzer .. just another agilent one |
| 01:48.38 | *** join/#webos-internals Rick_home (n=chatzill@wsip-24-249-130-185.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 01:49.10 | zsoc | bpadalino, way to kill the channel ;) |
| 01:49.15 | bpadalino | yeah sorry |
| 01:49.25 | bpadalino | i am such a jerk :( |
| 01:49.46 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v Rick_home] by ChanServ |
| 01:49.58 | rwhitby | bpadalino: keep it coming. |
| 01:50.16 | bpadalino | keep what coming? killing the channel ? |
| 01:50.19 | Rick_home | what did he do? |
| 01:50.23 | Rick_home | Hi guys. |
| 01:50.30 | bpadalino | or more numbers of equipment i use on a regular basis ? |
| 01:50.47 | rwhitby | I only have a HP16550 here |
| 01:51.17 | zsoc | rwhitby, shame on you. IRC is about idle chatter, not idle chatters :> |
| 01:51.17 | bpadalino | ah! my spectrum analyzer is an E4407 .. the 26GHz one .. |
| 01:51.26 | bpadalino | since i am working on a project that works up in the 5GHz area |
| 01:51.51 | *** join/#webos-internals Gadfly1 (n=Gadfly@148.100.199.36) |
| 01:51.52 | PuffTheMagic | you guys think the pre camera could do iris scanning with opencv? |
| 01:52.13 | bpadalino | hehe, HP16550 looks nice! |
| 01:52.19 | bpadalino | 2M-deep channels |
| 01:52.26 | rwhitby | is there any sort of pre-paid pay as you go plan with no monthly fee that can be used with a legit inactivated Pre? |
| 01:52.41 | rwhitby | like just buying a GSM sim card at the airport ... |
| 01:52.46 | PuffTheMagic | no |
| 01:52.47 | zsoc | PuffTheMagic, what are the requirements for iris scanning? just compare those to the manufactors specs. |
| 01:52.53 | zsoc | rwhitby, i know it's crazy, but america is strange. |
| 01:53.05 | bpadalino | CDMA carriers are pretty much jerks |
| 01:53.16 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: im pretty sure 3mp is more than enough |
| 01:53.44 | PuffTheMagic | i just wonder how that extended depth of field works |
| 01:53.56 | zsoc | rwhitby, in fact, no prepaid carrier in america has legitimate data even, still all 2.5g, just portals and wap |
| 01:53.57 | freakout | PuffTheMagic: leprechauns |
| 01:54.17 | freakout | (I learned about photo tech from Discworld) |
| 01:54.24 | zsoc | rwhitby, although you can get prepaid phones for free, when buying like $20 of airtime, so they basically give away crap |
| 01:54.30 | PuffTheMagic | freakout: r u saying you wouldnt want an iris scanner instead of the lame keypad to unlock your pre? |
| 01:54.40 | rwhitby | zsoc: those carriers really have you guys by the short and curlies, don't they? |
| 01:54.43 | freakout | PuffTheMagic: oh god no |
| 01:54.54 | freakout | I just like cracking lame jokes :P |
| 01:54.59 | PuffTheMagic | freakout: what about fase recognition |
| 01:55.02 | zsoc | freakout, you are the son of a woman who stands on the mountain of an angry god in a thunderstorm, shaking his fists and calling down profainity upon him while wearing gold jewlery. |
| 01:55.10 | PuffTheMagic | s/fase/face/ |
| 01:55.16 | freakout | ~botsnack |
| 01:55.16 | infobot | :), freakout |
| 01:55.34 | zsoc | rwhitby, if by short and curlies, you mean the hair on our collaborative testicles, then yes. |
| 01:55.37 | freakout | wonders what emoticon he'd get for typing "~botsMack" |
| 01:55.47 | PuffTheMagic | lol |
| 01:55.47 | freakout | PuffTheMagic: that would extremely cool |
| 01:56.14 | freakout | zsoc: good to see another fan in here :D |
| 01:56.31 | zsoc | freakout, even if my memory is crap, lol. played the mud for awhile even D: |
| 01:56.54 | *** join/#webos-internals Templarian (n=Templari@141.218.13.161) |
| 01:56.54 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v Templarian] by ChanServ |
| 01:56.54 | zsoc | freakout, and techincally, i think they were imps, not leprachons ;) |
| 01:57.16 | freakout | facepalms. How could he forget that? |
| 01:59.05 | Templarian | will belive this is what is discussed when he is not here from now on. |
| 01:59.25 | zsoc | rwhitby, even worse, all of the prepaid/no contract carriers are generally owned by the contract carriers. and the few mvnos that aren't are either localized to area or getting bought up fast |
| 01:59.53 | HattCzech | rwhitby: so... where did i leave off? |
| 02:00.00 | oil | with it not working |
| 02:00.04 | oil | xD |
| 02:00.12 | HattCzech | lol! good call, oil |
| 02:00.31 | HattCzech | i'm still confused on why it works for me, but not for rod |
| 02:00.35 | zsoc | Templarian, you did walk in at quit a time eh ;) |
| 02:00.41 | HattCzech | and i'm hoping it's not a mac thing |
| 02:01.42 | rwhitby | HattCzech: can you reply to my email with the output from running the xml through your script (and include your script just in case) ? |
| 02:01.55 | HattCzech | sure |
| 02:01.58 | rwhitby | use the xml I sent, so we can make sure we are both running the same thing. |
| 02:02.12 | HattCzech | k |
| 02:02.12 | rwhitby | HattCzech: we will make it work. |
| 02:04.44 | *** join/#webos-internals chron (n=chron@66.212.197.70) |
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| 02:05.45 | *** part/#webos-internals valexa (n=valexa@nextdesign.iasi.rdsnet.ro) |
| 02:14.08 | zsoc | Opensource communities are very interesting. Personally I feel like it's one of the closest things on earth we have to Utopia. Is that too philisophical? I've been involved in 3 or 4, and it seems to be the most interesting avenue to learn, help, and get to know unique people. |
| 02:14.10 | *** join/#webos-internals eno__ (n=eno@adsl-70-137-174-5.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:16.12 | freakout | zsoc: They bathe more frequently in Utopia. |
| 02:16.18 | bpadalino | hah |
| 02:16.20 | freakout | hides before room attacks |
| 02:16.47 | bpadalino | i actually just got out of the shower |
| 02:17.00 | zsoc | so did freakout |
| 02:17.02 | zsoc | i know these things |
| 02:17.10 | freakout | bpadalino: pics or it didn't happen :P |
| 02:17.11 | bpadalino | heh |
| 02:17.26 | bpadalino | aw man :( |
| 02:17.37 | bpadalino | i hate being called on shens |
| 02:17.44 | freakout | lol |
| 02:18.38 | rwhitby | HattCzech: did you send that yet? |
| 02:19.04 | HattCzech | not yet |
| 02:19.45 | zsoc | So I don't believe my question before ever got answered. Is it safe to assume the compositing on the pre is done with Indirect Rendering? |
| 02:20.54 | HattCzech | the xml is outdated, so i'm attaching a new one |
| 02:23.03 | ajames | zsoc: it's not x11 so probably not |
| 02:23.10 | ajames | it seems to all be software rendered |
| 02:23.36 | zsoc | Really? Software rendered compositing? On this little bucket of bolts? Impressive. |
| 02:25.32 | HattCzech | rwhitby: sent |
| 02:25.51 | ajames | pretty sure |
| 02:26.01 | ajames | i'd love to be shown otherwise though |
| 02:26.19 | freakout | zsoc: the software rendering explains the choppiness at some points |
| 02:26.42 | freakout | looks forward to Palm actually using Pre's graphics hardware |
| 02:26.51 | ajames | looking in /dev and /sys i don't see anything resembling a drm |
| 02:26.52 | tharris- | i just want the new patch =p |
| 02:27.34 | ajames | plus, and i hate to say this: the iphone's graphics are quite a bit smoother |
| 02:27.35 | rwhitby | HattCzech: I think I found the problem |
| 02:27.40 | HattCzech | ah? |
| 02:27.43 | ajames | and it's nearly the same proc |
| 02:28.14 | ajames | can't wait for gallium3d on the pre |
| 02:29.02 | HattCzech | what did you find? |
| 02:36.29 | *** join/#webos-internals acydlord (n=acydlord@174-17-70-14.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 02:37.10 | rwhitby | HattCzech: self.data was not being reinitialised at the start of each tag, and it also wasn't being appended if the characters method got called multiple times. |
| 02:37.42 | HattCzech | ahhh |
| 02:38.45 | HattCzech | so that would mean you wouldn't have to worry about the newline stuff if it got called multiple times |
| 02:39.07 | rwhitby | HattCzech: yep, nothing to do with what we were focusing on. |
| 02:39.18 | *** join/#webos-internals joeerror (n=jared@c-98-224-21-117.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:39.25 | HattCzech | awesome |
| 02:39.48 | joeerror | Hi all |
| 02:40.00 | *** join/#webos-internals alkos333 (n=alkos333@c-98-227-217-190.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 02:40.08 | HattCzech | so you working on a way to store it from multiple calls? |
| 02:42.54 | joeerror | So, I'm trying to install a VNC client and there was some problems with gcc, during the configure it's telling me "checking for C compiler default output... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables" I'm having a hard time finding information on how to get past this. |
| 02:42.56 | *** join/#webos-internals heisenman_afk (n=heisenma@adsl-76-254-33-188.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:43.01 | rwhitby | HattCzech: check the feed now |
| 02:43.17 | heisenman_afk | hey all |
| 02:43.25 | rwhitby | heisenman_afk: g'day |
| 02:43.39 | heisenman | any updates on your fund? |
| 02:43.50 | rwhitby | heisenman: $75 so far |
| 02:44.00 | heisenman | I finally read the thread in detail; need to respond to the first reply. |
| 02:44.01 | Eguy | On your way! |
| 02:44.14 | heisenman | I WAS a little hasty/shady in the way I put that up... |
| 02:45.41 | *** join/#webos-internals zsoc (n=nghr@unaffiliated/zsoc) |
| 02:45.43 | destinal_ | ~botsack |
| 02:45.47 | destinal_ | ~botsnack |
| 02:45.47 | infobot | destinal_: aw, gee |
| 02:46.20 | HattCzech | yay! description! |
| 02:46.21 | tharris- | sup dest |
| 02:46.40 | rwhitby | HattCzech: now you just need to change the description to say "Just install it using Preware" ... ;-) |
| 02:46.42 | Eguy | destinal came out of hiding |
| 02:46.43 | destinal_ | tharris-: sup |
| 02:46.55 | HattCzech | lol, i did actually have that at first |
| 02:47.02 | HattCzech | but that would be an additional step ;) |
| 02:52.20 | rwhitby | HattCzech: is everything else you've seen in the feed data now fixed too? |
| 02:53.42 | HattCzech | looks like it |
| 02:55.46 | HattCzech | so did you undo the replace \r\n thing? |
| 02:55.55 | destinal_ | tharris-: anything interesting going on? |
| 02:56.50 | *** join/#webos-internals corq (n=corq@140.150.121.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 03:00.03 | rwhitby | http://cgi.ebay.com/Palm-Pre-HOMEBREW-JAILBREAK-GUIDE-for-3rd-Party-Apps_W0QQitemZ250492900878QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCell_Phones?hash=item3a528a560e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 |
| 03:00.13 | *** join/#webos-internals JackieRipper (n=jackieri@cpe-24-29-49-70.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 03:00.21 | freakout | rwhitby: lol |
| 03:00.24 | freakout | That's creative |
| 03:00.42 | freakout | Your work, I take it? :P |
| 03:01.20 | Eguy | rwhitby: Still trying to make money? :P |
| 03:01.33 | rwhitby | freakout: not mine, now. |
| 03:01.38 | rwhitby | s/now/no/ |
| 03:01.56 | rwhitby | I wonder if they will send me a freebie though .. |
| 03:02.08 | Eguy | hahaha |
| 03:02.20 | Eguy | bid on it, the auction is for the pre right? |
| 03:02.22 | Eguy | ;) |
| 03:02.50 | freakout | rwhitby: considering how much it probably cribs from the wiki... |
| 03:03.07 | freakout | ...you could probably make a claim for royalties ;) |
| 03:04.05 | Eguy | hahaha |
| 03:04.19 | Eguy | there is some screenshot infringment going on in there |
| 03:04.24 | Eguy | oil: sue! |
| 03:05.07 | freakout | oil, rwhitby: I recommend this guy |
| 03:05.08 | freakout | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cD9x1xTSjw |
| 03:05.34 | rwhitby | http://cgi.ebay.com/Palm-Pre-Sprint-Nextel_W0QQitemZ250496245220QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCell_Phones?hash=item3a52bd5de4&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_500wt_1182 - $125 clear for activation - is that legit? |
| 03:06.17 | Eguy | not a chance rwhitby |
| 03:06.33 | rwhitby | "We got this phone on adding a family plan but do not need it. Brand new in the box clear for activation." |
| 03:06.37 | freakout | rwhitby: if it was, you might have had a rival in the bidding :P |
| 03:06.39 | *** part/#webos-internals joeerror (n=jared@c-98-224-21-117.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:07.01 | Eguy | That's a scam if I have ever seen one |
| 03:08.18 | freakout | seller has reasonable rep... |
| 03:08.23 | *** join/#webos-internals _acyd_ (n=acydlord@174-17-57-130.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 03:08.50 | freakout | "Weird but great - many thanks Jul-11-09 01:33" |
| 03:08.51 | freakout | lol |
| 03:08.58 | Eguy | hahahha |
| 03:09.49 | oil | screenshot infringement? |
| 03:10.33 | oil | oh |
| 03:10.35 | oil | down at the bottom |
| 03:10.36 | oil | lol |
| 03:10.55 | oil | my xbox friends probably get a lot of random friend requests |
| 03:10.55 | oil | lol |
| 03:11.02 | oil | "saw your name in this screenshot" |
| 03:11.17 | freakout | rwhitby: take a look at that seller's other items |
| 03:11.28 | freakout | A wide selection of penis bones! |
| 03:11.33 | freakout | (no, seriously) |
| 03:11.36 | oil | rwhitby: what about that dude in your thread who said he had one he would sell you? |
| 03:11.42 | Eguy | lol |
| 03:12.10 | rwhitby | Wiki is CC-BY-SA - so anything with text or screenshots from the wiki is also then CC-BY-SA, right? |
| 03:13.12 | chrisa | Remind me why there isn't just an ipkg for the term app, was it the post/pre scripts? |
| 03:14.00 | Eguy | really thinks rwhitby is a donation whore espeically with the signature ;) |
| 03:14.15 | rwhitby | there is an ipkg for terminal, and an ipkg for the plugin (which is arch specific) |
| 03:14.28 | chrisa | I must have missed the urls, I'll look again |
| 03:14.31 | rwhitby | chrisa: the plugin needs a postinst to symlink the .so file into the right dir |
| 03:14.35 | rwhitby | chrisa: they are in Preware |
| 03:15.01 | chrisa | I haven't gotten around to mucking with preware |
| 03:15.46 | rwhitby | is failing on marketing then ... |
| 03:15.46 | bpadalino | chrisa, have you tried the terminal app at least ? |
| 03:15.46 | chrisa | nope |
| 03:15.51 | bpadalino | sad panda :( |
| 03:15.56 | Eguy | frown |
| 03:16.12 | Eguy | it is mighty good |
| 03:16.13 | chrisa | I don't actually need a terminal on my phone, I spend enough time screwing with os bits already |
| 03:16.19 | oil | lol |
| 03:16.58 | rwhitby | chrisa: how about virtual keyboard? |
| 03:18.09 | chrisa | Not really necessary on pixi |
| 03:18.19 | Eguy | true |
| 03:18.22 | *** join/#webos-internals schulman (n=schulman@csnat-18.cs.umd.edu) |
| 03:18.35 | schulman | Hello all |
| 03:18.40 | bpadalino | chrisa, pre or pixi - which one wins |
| 03:18.55 | schulman | Is there a favored way to get access to the file system from a javascript app? |
| 03:19.10 | bpadalino | what do you want to access in the filesystem ? |
| 03:19.12 | schulman | Are folks just running a webserver on the pre and calling server side scripts? |
| 03:19.52 | schulman | I just want to output strings from a javascript program into a file |
| 03:20.02 | schulman | Using Mojo.Log is messy |
| 03:20.06 | Eguy | pray is the best |
| 03:20.12 | schulman | the whole grepping /var/log/messages is ugly |
| 03:20.17 | Eguy | oops can't say anything about that device |
| 03:20.49 | schulman | but then again, so is running a web server just so you can call a script that appends your string to a file |
| 03:20.58 | bpadalino | pray is another device ? |
| 03:21.12 | Eguy | nah :P |
| 03:21.49 | bpadalino | schulman: you can always tail -f the mojo log and pipe it to grep in a terminal to single out your messages |
| 03:22.38 | schulman | bpadalino: yeah, but then I can not do that automatically from the application |
| 03:22.59 | schulman | bpadalino: actually, what is "Terminal" using to access linux from a javascript program? |
| 03:23.17 | bpadalino | it's an NPAPI plugin written in C/C++ |
| 03:23.36 | schulman | oh nice |
| 03:23.40 | schulman | that is a great solution |
| 03:24.43 | rwhitby | schulman: see git.webos-internals.org for our plugins and services |
| 03:25.04 | schulman | rwhitby: ok let me take a look |
| 03:26.09 | *** join/#webos-internals acydlord (n=acydlord@174-17-56-182.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 03:26.27 | Seker | Does anyone know if the new update addresses the lag in answering a call? |
| 03:26.37 | EvanDotPro | Seker: supposedly it does. |
| 03:27.30 | schulman | bpadalino: I think a fun solution would be to just call echo >> filename using the termplugin |
| 03:27.53 | Seker | EvanDotPro: Where'd you learn this? Not questioning you personally, I just want to know before I return this phone. |
| 03:28.11 | *** join/#webos-internals SSilver2k2 (n=silver@c-76-26-183-209.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 03:28.11 | bpadalino | that could work .. no one has run the terminal plugin headless before .. |
| 03:28.37 | Seker | I'll ride it out if the update handles it. |
| 03:29.07 | EvanDotPro | Seker: the threads on precentral... multiple people have reported less lag, but i still say "supposedly" due to the placebo effect. |
| 03:29.08 | rwhitby | bpadalino: I believe the security provisions in termplugin prevent that, since it would be a root escalation vulnerability if a random webOS application could do that. |
| 03:29.40 | bpadalino | rwhitby: so it can't be run headless ? |
| 03:29.44 | Seker | EvanDotPro: I hope you're right. I'm getting very frustrated calling people back. |
| 03:29.57 | rwhitby | bpadalino: check with destinal_ - I'm not fully up on it. |
| 03:30.01 | bpadalino | gotcha |
| 03:30.03 | schulman | rwhitby: so how does it authenticate that the terminal application is talking to it? |
| 03:30.10 | destinal_ | bpadalino: it only accepts key event input from luna directly |
| 03:30.11 | EvanDotPro | Seker: yeah, i've had the same issues... you're not alone. |
| 03:30.20 | bpadalino | destinal_: ah neat |
| 03:36.20 | *** join/#webos-internals infobot (i=ibot@rikers.org) |
| 03:36.20 | *** topic/#webos-internals is Discussion about webOS internals (not webOS SDK usage - use #webos for that). Honor all licenses, carrier agreements and Palm code copyrights when speaking here. Twitter: @webosinternals Logs: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/ Wiki: http://www.webos-internals.org/ Pastebin: http://webos.pastebin.com/ Announcements: http://groups.google.com/group/webos-internals-announce |
| 03:36.20 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 03:36.29 | bpadalino | destinal_: from the plugin perspective, can the javascript call methods inside the plugin - or do you just get the keypresses and those types of events ? |
| 03:36.43 | DraX | meh sockets are only cool if you can handle binary data. :) |
| 03:37.08 | destinal_ | schulman: it's best to step back |
| 03:37.09 | bpadalino | why wouldn't you be able to handle binary data ? |
| 03:37.19 | destinal_ | think about this from an architectural design perspective |
| 03:37.27 | DraX | bpadalino: javascript strings don't support \x00 |
| 03:37.47 | bpadalino | base64 encoded binary data ? |
| 03:37.51 | schulman | DraX: you can pass one byte at a time :) |
| 03:38.00 | destinal_ | Palm designed this whole services framework to abstract away the heavy lifting of binary protocols and sockets etc |
| 03:38.16 | destinal_ | Like they didn't try to write a whole instant messaging program in javascript |
| 03:38.16 | DraX | you can base64 encode it, but the performance hit is pretty nasty |
| 03:38.39 | schulman | right |
| 03:38.41 | destinal_ | they wrote a service to speak the protocol and talk to a mojo app |
| 03:38.54 | schulman | yes |
| 03:39.03 | destinal_ | so if you want to do advanced things |
| 03:39.03 | DraX | and writing a struct module ontop of base64 encoded binary sounds nightmarish |
| 03:39.12 | destinal_ | write a service to do the _specific_ function you want |
| 03:39.18 | destinal_ | then a plugin to call that service |
| 03:39.24 | destinal_ | err a mojo app to call that service |
| 03:39.31 | schulman | right |
| 03:39.34 | destinal_ | (no sleep - brain no work) |
| 03:39.36 | DraX | indeed |
| 03:39.37 | schulman | you mean a service on dbus? |
| 03:39.40 | schulman | sorry |
| 03:39.43 | schulman | a service that speaks dbus? |
| 03:39.49 | bpadalino | drax, why would you need the struct on top of it ? |
| 03:40.03 | destinal_ | schulman: a system service, yeah -- they use lunaservices api which is based on dbus |
| 03:40.08 | DraX | bpadalino: so you can actually parse a binary protocol |
| 03:40.36 | schulman | destinal_: so if I want to write to a file I need to write a luna script that writes to a file |
| 03:40.45 | schulman | destinal_: and register it somehow to their service scheme |
| 03:40.49 | bpadalino | you can't unpack base64 into int32's ? |
| 03:41.03 | oil | filemgr service |
| 03:41.05 | chrisa | Is preware only hosted on that forum thread? |
| 03:41.09 | DraX | you could, and then you'd need to unpack those into the actual struct mapping |
| 03:41.14 | DraX | and also deal with alignment issues |
| 03:41.31 | bpadalino | alignment issue is easy - everything is an int32 |
| 03:41.34 | oil | preware is only hosted in the feed |
| 03:41.49 | DraX | bpadalino: int32 into string sounds like fun :P |
| 03:41.55 | schulman | bpadalino: even chars? |
| 03:42.17 | destinal_ | chrisa: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Preware |
| 03:42.19 | bpadalino | schulman: sure - why not ? pad with whitespace |
| 03:42.37 | destinal_ | schulman: still, take a step back |
| 03:42.39 | schulman | 4 - 1 storage |
| 03:42.43 | destinal_ | schulman: why do you want to write to a file? |
| 03:42.52 | destinal_ | don't put the means before the ends |
| 03:43.03 | schulman | it takes 4 bytes to store 1 |
| 03:43.09 | bpadalino | don't be silly |
| 03:43.23 | destinal_ | rather than, I want to write to a file for X, just figure out what X is |
| 03:43.23 | bpadalino | the outlier is when you have a string that mod 4 > 0 |
| 03:43.28 | destinal_ | what does the app need to do? |
| 03:43.43 | *** join/#webos-internals muchtall (n=muchtall@75-146-189-25-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 03:43.44 | destinal_ | as in functionality to the user and to the network stack, not backend stuff |
| 03:43.45 | bpadalino | append whitespace and only accept that no whitespace should be at the end of a string |
| 03:44.04 | bpadalino | i dunno - i'm no javascript expert .. it doesn't sound too terrible to me |
| 03:44.38 | rwhitby | oil: I'm in contact with kennyidaho about his spare Pre ... |
| 03:44.40 | destinal_ | bpadalino: but why do you actually want this? |
| 03:44.55 | bpadalino | destinal_: doing binary protocols over sockets i guess ? |
| 03:45.06 | bpadalino | i just wanted to supply a raw socket to JS .. |
| 03:45.10 | destinal_ | bpadalino: if you're doing binary protocols in javascript you're going the wrong direction |
| 03:45.21 | destinal_ | do a service |
| 03:45.24 | bpadalino | it wasn't my idea - it was drax's! |
| 03:45.37 | DraX | :D |
| 03:45.49 | bpadalino | i just thought it would be interesting to supply a socket to JS so it could open/close/read/write/etc .. |
| 03:46.02 | bpadalino | he informs me it can't handle binary data since null isn't supported |
| 03:46.08 | destinal_ | interesting as a curiosity but pointless and wasteful in any kind of real world app |
| 03:46.09 | schulman | destinal_: I am writing some research code that is going to log lots of radio debug data in file names based on when I run the program |
| 03:46.11 | bpadalino | etc, etc - it all gets escalated |
| 03:46.29 | schulman | so it is easy for me to start and stop logging |
| 03:46.45 | chrisa | precentral takes a while for the first update |
| 03:46.47 | bpadalino | destinal_: the binary protocol, or providing a socket to js ? |
| 03:47.01 | schulman | the Mojo.Log solution is a pain because I would have to manually run the grepping from /var/log/messages |
| 03:47.31 | destinal_ | schulman: you can write to stdout and run luna in the foreground |
| 03:47.33 | schulman | unless I write some script that runs in the background and waits for some Mojo.Log message that indicates I am starting the app and writes everything from then on to a file |
| 03:47.54 | destinal_ | schulman: we do that for debugging for termplugin |
| 03:48.28 | schulman | destinal_: sorry write what to stdout? |
| 03:48.41 | chrisa | rwhitby: how long until I give up on this precentral repo update? |
| 03:49.22 | rwhitby | chrisa: 5-10 seconds |
| 03:49.36 | rwhitby | (less than that for me on the emulator - it's like 1 second) |
| 03:49.42 | rwhitby | but that's what oil reports |
| 03:50.12 | destinal_ | rwhitby: you can get javascript writing to stdout in luna as well, right? either alert() or Mojo.Log or something? |
| 03:51.03 | rwhitby | chrisa: if it got past Updating into Loading, then it means the service is running fine - in Loading it's just a transfer of a big chunk of text from a static file in /var/usr/lib/ipkg/lists across dbus to the javascript. |
| 03:51.13 | destinal_ | schulman: if you ssh to the pre, and "initctl stop LunaSysMgr; LunaSysMgr" it will stop Luna and start it again in the foreground instead of background |
| 03:51.33 | destinal_ | and certain log messages normally only written to a logfile will appear on your console |
| 03:51.33 | schulman | I see, so you will see all messages that go to stdout |
| 03:51.37 | schulman | right |
| 03:51.37 | destinal_ | right |
| 03:52.12 | schulman | again, the appears to be something missing here |
| 03:52.26 | chrisa | There, I have the terminal installed now |
| 03:52.28 | chrisa | I hope you're happy |
| 03:52.31 | oil | lol |
| 03:52.38 | rwhitby | chrisa: luna://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/rawlist '{"feed":"precentral"}' is what it is calling at that point. |
| 03:52.49 | destinal_ | chrisa: :-D |
| 03:53.07 | schulman | I guess the answer is to just write lunaservices |
| 03:53.11 | rwhitby | chrisa: I'm happer that you have Preware working on a Pixi ;-) |
| 03:53.12 | schulman | if javascript does not do what you need |
| 03:53.21 | chrisa | sorry, this is on my pre |
| 03:53.23 | schulman | someone has a Pixi? |
| 03:53.26 | rwhitby | doh! |
| 03:53.36 | chrisa | I could load it on pixie if it makes your day that much |
| 03:54.01 | destinal_ | schulman: chrisa makes pix(i|ie) live |
| 03:54.18 | rwhitby | chrisa: it would, yes :-) I can't see any reason why it's won't work. |
| 03:54.29 | chrisa | preware should track dependencies. internalz not pulling down filemgr is silly |
| 03:54.40 | oil | is working on it |
| 03:54.42 | rwhitby | chrisa: yeah, we're working on that. |
| 03:54.51 | oil | it wasn't even possible till what, yesterday? |
| 03:54.57 | chrisa | "error installing" |
| 03:54.58 | chrisa | Cryptic |
| 03:55.01 | bpadalino | the ipkg-service i am pretty sure just crashed again with the same OOM problem i saw beforehand |
| 03:55.07 | oil | app-menu > ipkglog |
| 03:55.24 | schulman | I see |
| 03:55.25 | rwhitby | chrisa: we need to work out how to restart java-serviceboot so that the postinst works for the service, and then the app gets installed afterwards. like changing the tyres on a moving car. |
| 03:55.45 | rwhitby | oil: can we make ipkglog pop up automatically on an error? |
| 03:55.50 | oil | probably |
| 03:55.56 | chrisa | hmm, is filemgr a valid package? |
| 03:56.48 | rwhitby | chrisa: it's a service, with a postinst |
| 03:56.50 | chrisa | Might I add, that in the installed packages list it would make sense for a swipe to the right to delete a package? |
| 03:56.58 | chrisa | Consistency with the rest of the os |
| 03:57.15 | rwhitby | chrisa: indeed. would you expect confirmation or not? |
| 03:57.37 | chrisa | probably just the same delete / cancel you see everywhere else |
| 03:57.38 | destinal_ | you can swipe right and have a delete button, right? I think that's a common way in webos? |
| 03:57.44 | bpadalino | heh, "This is bad": 2009-09-10T03:50:46.590116Z [35903] castle user.err LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgrJS} com.palm.app.email: Error: This Is Bad: notifications cannot maintain registerForNotifications subscription. I'll retry later. #<Hash:{'returnValue': false, 'errorCode': -1, 'errorText': 'Launch helper exited with unknown return code 0'}>, file:///usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.email/index.html:0 |
| 03:57.50 | rwhitby | (i.e. "do you really want to delete that app that has your preferences saved in a db which you will loose") |
| 03:57.57 | oil | yeah we could do swipe to delete |
| 03:58.33 | destinal_ | rwhitby: that's a little wordy. I'd expect just swipe, red delete button, press it, done |
| 03:58.42 | chrisa | ^ |
| 03:58.47 | rwhitby | chrisa: we've got the design on how to handle dependencies properly - will be implemented before 1.0.0 |
| 03:58.51 | rwhitby | destinal_: agreed |
| 03:59.10 | rwhitby | destinal_: just giving the reason why confirm might be good |
| 03:59.10 | chrisa | I should build an irssi ipkg |
| 03:59.18 | oil | there is a weird thing where swiping and not clicking and swiping another |
| 03:59.22 | oil | actually deletes the first |
| 03:59.27 | rwhitby | chrisa: let me introduce you to optware ... |
| 03:59.50 | rwhitby | chrisa: 1300+ linux command line app, already compiled for the Pre |
| 04:00.10 | chrisa | I know of it, I'd rather just build something myself since I have the tools |
| 04:00.16 | chrisa | rather than mucking with a second db |
| 04:00.44 | rwhitby | chrisa: we're looking at how to integrate optware better into the same db |
| 04:00.46 | thatdude | Night everyone. |
| 04:01.13 | rwhitby | chrisa: we can put a git repo up on git.webos-internals.org for you if you like ;-) just send me an ssh key .... |
| 04:01.51 | rwhitby | bbiab |
| 04:02.50 | destinal_ | looks forward to NaNplayer going up on precentral sometime soon |
| 04:02.59 | bpadalino | rwhitby: http://pastie.textmate.org/private/g6mwrjmewnea0hz9u5vlq - terminal doesn't open up properly for some reason |
| 04:03.32 | destinal_ | bpadalino: if those methods don't exist, the plugin must not be instantiating |
| 04:03.39 | bpadalino | interesting |
| 04:03.52 | destinal_ | check to make sure it's in /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins |
| 04:04.18 | bpadalino | it's gone! |
| 04:04.24 | bpadalino | VERY interesting! |
| 04:05.08 | destinal_ | we should probably do a verbose check for instantiation and fail gracefully in Terminal |
| 04:05.17 | bpadalino | it still shows up as being an installed ipkg |
| 04:05.21 | Rick_home | ok I give up |
| 04:05.30 | Rick_home | uninstalling sdk , re booting and re-installing |
| 04:05.34 | Rick_home | damned thing. |
| 04:05.39 | Rick_home | emulator is completely hosed. |
| 04:05.40 | schulman | bpadalino: I had to install the plugin first, then terminal |
| 04:05.48 | schulman | otherwise I had the same problem |
| 04:05.54 | bpadalino | schulman: my terminal was working fine |
| 04:05.58 | bpadalino | and had been for a very long time |
| 04:06.02 | schulman | oh, odd |
| 04:06.06 | bpadalino | indeed |
| 04:06.14 | Rick_home | app funs fine on my pre, straight mojo, nothing add, and will not launch on emulator. :-( |
| 04:07.45 | *** join/#webos-internals muchtall (n=muchtall@75-146-189-25-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 04:08.01 | destinal_ | Rick_home: are they using the same frameworks version? |
| 04:08.24 | Rick_home | yes 1.1 sdk 62 |
| 04:08.28 | bpadalino | wow that was amazingly weird |
| 04:08.46 | bpadalino | now i am kind of paranoid .. how did a file in /var get deleted .. |
| 04:08.49 | Rick_home | it was working, then without updating ANYTHING the emulator just quit working properly |
| 04:08.59 | destinal_ | Rick_home: you don't have to reinstall sdk to get a new emulator btw |
| 04:08.59 | Rick_home | very annoying. |
| 04:09.05 | Rick_home | I don't. |
| 04:09.08 | destinal_ | Rick_home: just palm-install --reset |
| 04:09.09 | Rick_home | well, too late now. |
| 04:09.14 | Rick_home | crap |
| 04:09.15 | destinal_ | err palm-emulator --reset |
| 04:09.22 | Rick_home | well, too late now. |
| 04:10.20 | *** join/#webos-internals schulman_ (n=schulman@216-164-55-64.c3-0.ses-ubr3.lnh-ses.md.cable.rcn.com) |
| 04:10.24 | *** join/#webos-internals Rubin (n=rubin@cronor.simplanet.org) |
| 04:10.40 | destinal_ | Rick_home: if you want to send me an example I'll mess with it on pre and emulator |
| 04:11.03 | destinal_ | that sounds both interesting and bizarre |
| 04:11.18 | Rick_home | k |
| 04:11.36 | Rick_home | predestinal? |
| 04:12.35 | psykoz | $70 unlimited everything for sprint |
| 04:12.45 | psykoz | man that's hella cheap |
| 04:13.38 | destinal_ | that sounds like the price I got for 450mins + unlim data,sms |
| 04:15.16 | destinal_ | Rick_home: that one works, yeah |
| 04:16.46 | psykoz | destinal_, That's supposedly going to be Sprint's announcement tomorrow |
| 04:17.14 | destinal_ | psykoz: if so... man, I joined too early |
| 04:17.22 | psykoz | oh |
| 04:17.28 | psykoz | sprint's awesome about changing your plan |
| 04:17.43 | psykoz | Contract just covers you maintain service with them |
| 04:17.50 | destinal_ | ah cool |
| 04:18.07 | psykoz | I've numerous times had to change things |
| 04:18.46 | Xyg | sprints announcment has been made already |
| 04:18.57 | bpadalino | which one ? |
| 04:19.16 | Xyg | the pricing plan psykoz was referring to earlier |
| 04:19.42 | psykoz | they have not officially announced it yet |
| 04:20.18 | Rick_home | destinal_: I just discovered that I had two IPK's and several PSD's in my src folder. :-( |
| 04:20.20 | destinal_ | ah, unlimited mobile to mobile voice right, not to PSTN? |
| 04:20.24 | Rick_home | the IPK exceeded 4 meg |
| 04:20.34 | destinal_ | Rick_home: aha |
| 04:20.37 | Rick_home | I have now cleaned my src folder and will see if that fixes the problem.... |
| 04:20.46 | *** join/#webos-internals daybreak1199 (n=glowstic@99-171-191-144.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:20.56 | Rick_home | and I uninstalled the sdk for no reason. :-( |
| 04:21.16 | Rick_home | Peeved. I'm peeved. |
| 04:21.21 | psykoz | Well I don't know how they would confirm it mobile to mobile, unless they're keeping up with NANPA + ported number lists, "mobile to mobile" means mobile to any carrier |
| 04:21.39 | psykoz | So I just can't see how they'll differentiate between someone being an AT&T land line user vs an AT&T Cell phone user |
| 04:22.00 | psykoz | It sounds more like bad writing than anything to say "mobile to mobile" they probably meant "Anytime Minutes" |
| 04:22.00 | oc80z | whats good |
| 04:22.01 | destinal_ | probably they have some advanced peering stuff which can tell |
| 04:22.03 | oc80z | rwhitby ltns |
| 04:22.11 | destinal_ | but we'll see |
| 04:22.56 | rwhitby | ok, who here can take an ESN and check it's status? |
| 04:23.02 | *** join/#webos-internals eno (n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno) |
| 04:23.02 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v eno] by ChanServ |
| 04:23.10 | rwhitby | oc80z: g'day |
| 04:23.22 | tlz | rwhitby |
| 04:23.24 | tlz | i can tomorrow |
| 04:23.33 | EvanDotPro | destinal_: i have an api that can take any US number and tell you line type, carrier, etc... and it's up to date with nanpa too. :) |
| 04:23.43 | oc80z | er |
| 04:23.52 | oc80z | i have a scanner |
| 04:23.54 | oc80z | right here. |
| 04:24.03 | EvanDotPro | well, when i say up to date... within a few hours-ish. |
| 04:24.07 | oc80z | if u need it scanned for #'s |
| 04:24.08 | oc80z | or w/e |
| 04:24.14 | HattCzech | EvanDotPro: where? |
| 04:24.15 | oc80z | (alpha characters) |
| 04:24.23 | *** join/#webos-internals pg13_ (n=pg13@fansubbers.com) |
| 04:24.42 | *** join/#webos-internals AnOutsider (n=AnOutsid@c-68-39-119-149.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 04:25.01 | AnOutsider | evening folks |
| 04:25.02 | EvanDotPro | HattCzech: see PM |
| 04:25.05 | AnOutsider | morning for folk like rwhitby |
| 04:25.13 | rwhitby | g'day AnOutsider - afternoon here. |
| 04:25.21 | AnOutsider | same thing ;) |
| 04:25.45 | *** join/#webos-internals Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 04:25.45 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v Sargun] by ChanServ |
| 04:25.47 | destinal_ | rwhitby: shame about lack of wifi on pixi, it looks like an awesome device other than that |
| 04:26.00 | destinal_ | and of course a lot of people don't need that |
| 04:26.01 | AnOutsider | and girly |
| 04:26.12 | AnOutsider | I couldnt imagine no wifi *shudder* |
| 04:26.18 | AnOutsider | too often reception sucks in buildings |
| 04:26.23 | destinal_ | right, anyone here probably cares a lot about it |
| 04:26.44 | destinal_ | but people just switching to smartphones, maybe |
| 04:26.54 | AnOutsider | ya |
| 04:27.32 | destinal_ | can't wait to see the first wifi dongle soldering hack for pixi ;) |
| 04:27.42 | destinal_ | won't be me, I'm happy with pre |
| 04:28.24 | chrisa | oh right, I said I'd put preware on mine |
| 04:29.02 | destinal_ | chrisa: does pixi have a usb otg chipset? |
| 04:29.05 | daybreak1199 | how about an airpcap usb to micro usb hack for the pre...anyone have an airpcap besides me? |
| 04:29.12 | destinal_ | not that I've done anything more than getting power out of my pre's otg |
| 04:29.15 | Rick_home | wifi via usb -- but pixi is a usb SLAVE device, so it's going to be non-trivial |
| 04:29.51 | destinal_ | Rick_home: there's usb internal on these devices, so just depends on if there are any pads to steal |
| 04:30.00 | Rick_home | ahhhh |
| 04:30.04 | Rick_home | well |
| 04:30.19 | Rick_home | soldering at that scale, even with a binocular microscope is not for the timid. |
| 04:30.42 | destinal_ | also if usb otg chipset's used, you could use an external dongle if you want |
| 04:31.08 | destinal_ | but again, I haven't gotten my pre to even enumerate otg devices yet though if configured properly it will at least power them |
| 04:31.13 | Rick_home | destinal_: I did palmemulator --reset and it didn't reset the emulator |
| 04:31.23 | Rick_home | I got the exact same stuff as before. |
| 04:31.31 | Rick_home | how do I get a FRESH emulator |
| 04:32.13 | destinal_ | Rick_home: if I run palm-emulator --reset the first thing to pop up is "installing virtual machine" |
| 04:32.26 | chrisa | and it is running on pixie |
| 04:32.29 | destinal_ | it definitely starts from scratch |
| 04:32.45 | rwhitby | chrisa: now, if you can get us a youtube of Preware running on the pixie ... ;-) |
| 04:32.47 | destinal_ | chrisa: preware or terminal? I imagine terminal will be unhappy at pixi height |
| 04:32.51 | Rick_home | PalmSDK Variable not set |
| 04:33.19 | destinal_ | foresight fail on my part |
| 04:33.28 | psykoz | Palm needs to hurry up with some 1.2 |
| 04:33.55 | destinal_ | although running my emulator at pixi height I need to *scroll* the dialer! |
| 04:33.55 | destinal_ | :P |
| 04:34.05 | rwhitby | destinal_: I asked chrisa to check Preware, so I expect that. |
| 04:34.09 | destinal_ | maybe part of why 1.2 is being delayed |
| 04:34.33 | *** part/#webos-internals schulman (n=schulman@216-164-55-64.c3-0.ses-ubr3.lnh-ses.md.cable.rcn.com) |
| 04:35.01 | rwhitby | Rick_home: when I updated the emulator on my mac, I used the palm script to uninstall, then reinstalled. |
| 04:35.54 | destinal_ | Rick_home: not set? really odd |
| 04:36.14 | Rick_home | rwhitby: it's very odd |
| 04:36.19 | Rick_home | my computer decided to flake out |
| 04:37.27 | rwhitby | chrisa: does Preware layout work fine on Pixie? |
| 04:38.48 | oil | the main page scrolls |
| 04:38.58 | oil | im sure it does that is |
| 04:39.40 | destinal_ | the main page does scroll |
| 04:39.52 | destinal_ | I'm running a pixie-height emu at the moment :) |
| 04:42.02 | Rick_home | REBOOTING Be back in a big |
| 04:42.38 | destinal_ | actually terminal looks fine on pixi-height emu, yay |
| 04:42.47 | destinal_ | is surprised |
| 04:43.34 | psykoz | Hrmm, I've occasionally opened terminal up while notifications are stacked halfway up my screen and it scaled okay :) |
| 04:43.43 | *** join/#webos-internals atlanta (i=48bdc111@gateway/web/freenode/x-uveiytslapozdthk) |
| 04:43.47 | atlanta | hey guys |
| 04:43.54 | rwhitby | oil: shall we do a new release for chrisa on Pixi so it doesn't scroll ? |
| 04:44.27 | atlanta | ok i just had to come and vent before i went to bed |
| 04:44.35 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: the "new"/"alternate" main screen dont scroll :D |
| 04:44.38 | atlanta | palm dev wiki SUCKS |
| 04:44.41 | PuffTheMagic | just make that default |
| 04:44.50 | PuffTheMagic | atlanta: that one is depricated |
| 04:44.57 | PuffTheMagic | errr |
| 04:44.57 | atlanta | i used the exact code for submenus and it doesnt even register right |
| 04:45.00 | PuffTheMagic | palm or webos? |
| 04:45.02 | destinal_ | rwhitby: hmm, actually it doesn't scroll now |
| 04:45.13 | atlanta | PuffTheMagic: what should i use for best refrence |
| 04:45.14 | destinal_ | not sure why it did earlier |
| 04:45.32 | *** join/#webos-internals Jack87 (n=Jack87@24.10.241.201) |
| 04:45.36 | destinal_ | ah I think because I had a tiny notification icon up |
| 04:45.36 | atlanta | PuffTheMagic: why does palm even have code on there that doesn't work |
| 04:45.37 | PuffTheMagic | atlanta: i thought you were talking about the old webos-internals wiki |
| 04:45.42 | atlanta | oh no no |
| 04:45.45 | atlanta | the palm site |
| 04:45.47 | PuffTheMagic | atlanta: just look at the source |
| 04:45.51 | PuffTheMagic | thats the best reference |
| 04:45.58 | jauderho | upgrading to snow leopard. wish me luck and see you on the other side |
| 04:46.02 | PuffTheMagic | the grame work files |
| 04:46.08 | rwhitby | jauderho: good luck |
| 04:46.10 | destinal_ | rwhitby: it's fine, fits exactly perfect |
| 04:46.10 | PuffTheMagic | s/grame/frame/ |
| 04:46.16 | atlanta | PuffTheMagic: yea thats what i was doing and it doing some crazy javascript refrence i gotta just trace stuff back |
| 04:46.30 | destinal_ | rwhitby: as long as you have no notification icons on the bottom of your screen to draw the larger black box around the screen |
| 04:46.31 | atlanta | oh ok good idea |
| 04:46.35 | atlanta | framework files |
| 04:46.39 | atlanta | ill check those out thanks PuffTheMagic |
| 04:47.45 | Jack87 | how much battery life do i need for webos dr to work |
| 04:47.46 | destinal_ | wonders if he can have a freakishly large screen on his emu.. (height anyway) |
| 04:47.59 | chrisa | Jack87: it pulls power via the usb connection |
| 04:48.15 | chrisa | and I don't think it starts until the battery has 25% or so anyway |
| 04:48.20 | Jack87 | thanks chrisa... it just wanted to continue to charge a bit before it starts |
| 04:48.28 | Jack87 | ok so 25% it is |
| 04:48.30 | destinal_ | Jack87: it has a built in check for that |
| 04:48.32 | PuffTheMagic | Jack87: geist mentioned its about 25-30 |
| 04:48.42 | PuffTheMagic | Jack87: you can boot into recovery mode |
| 04:48.48 | PuffTheMagic | and run the charging command |
| 04:48.53 | PuffTheMagic | and see the actual percentage |
| 04:49.06 | Jack87 | remind me how puff i totally forgot i did it when first had the pre |
| 04:49.26 | PuffTheMagic | u know how to get into recovery/bootie mode right? |
| 04:49.34 | Jack87 | its loading the dr so i am good |
| 04:49.42 | *** join/#webos-internals Rick_home (n=chatzill@wsip-24-249-130-185.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 04:49.42 | Jack87 | no thats what i am asking you to remind me.. i totally forgot |
| 04:49.47 | PuffTheMagic | the dr will charge it |
| 04:49.50 | Jack87 | boot with volume butt |
| 04:49.54 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v Rick_home] by ChanServ |
| 04:49.55 | PuffTheMagic | yeah |
| 04:50.08 | PuffTheMagic | then in novacom you can do 'charging enable 500ma' |
| 04:50.12 | PuffTheMagic | or something like that |
| 04:50.30 | chrisa | There really is no reason to |
| 04:50.43 | destinal_ | nice |
| 04:50.43 | Jack87 | well i am good now :) |
| 04:50.45 | chrisa | The tool will do it if necessary, and you shouldn't be running commands in bootie when you don't know the parameters / what they do |
| 04:50.57 | destinal_ | has a freakishly long screen screen now in emulator |
| 04:51.01 | destinal_ | 320x800 |
| 04:51.06 | Jack87 | the thing is when you start doctor and it is charging your pre... andn you dont want it to because you havena spare battery how do you stop it.. haha |
| 04:51.21 | destinal_ | works great except for palm's vbox x,y detection addon |
| 04:51.22 | chrisa | Charging is a safe time to pull the plug / swap the battery |
| 04:51.35 | Jack87 | thanks chriss |
| 04:51.42 | chrisa | The tool doesn't actually write anything to disk until after the ramdisk comes up completely |
| 04:52.36 | PuffTheMagic | destinal_: latest sysfsbatteryservice pushed with working subscription code |
| 04:52.44 | Jack87 | im going to give the leaked 1.2 a test run... think it be ok chris? |
| 04:52.50 | destinal_ | PuffTheMagic: nice job |
| 04:53.11 | PuffTheMagic | destinal_: now i can do upsatrt service :D |
| 04:53.13 | PuffTheMagic | that will be cool |
| 04:53.14 | chrisa | I don't endorse incomplete / leaked images at all |
| 04:53.22 | chrisa | rwhitby: where does preware log to? |
| 04:53.25 | PuffTheMagic | destinal_: i have to find docs for old upstart |
| 04:53.31 | PuffTheMagic | cause 0.3.x aint on their site |
| 04:53.39 | PuffTheMagic | and i need to know what events i can emeit |
| 04:53.40 | PuffTheMagic | emit |
| 04:54.02 | destinal_ | the preware app list is really nice with a twice-pixie-height screen :) |
| 04:54.21 | PuffTheMagic | lol |
| 04:54.59 | destinal_ | I guess this bodes well for playing with the x86 image on a pc. too bad the width appears to be hard coded |
| 04:55.10 | Jack87 | well i guess endorsing it is one thing. but a test run to get a feel for and learn from is a bit different. |
| 04:55.19 | Jack87 | i tried waiting i really did lol |
| 04:56.18 | Jack87 | i want to see if i can pick and choose and mix and match features from other versions |
| 04:57.16 | destinal_ | there's a bug in how the vbox input plugin gets x,y coordinates |
| 04:57.29 | destinal_ | it assumes a 320x480 screen size |
| 04:58.03 | destinal_ | so actual bottom is considered to always be 480 from top, which is not necessarily true at all |
| 04:58.06 | Jack87 | such as adding back... Pinch to expand emails |
| 04:58.24 | Jack87 | any idea why they took it out chris? and does it still exist in the pixi? |
| 04:59.00 | destinal_ | Jack87: its the same OS, not like they'll be changing features for one device vs another |
| 04:59.31 | Jack87 | you never know destinal |
| 04:59.45 | chrisa | I do |
| 05:00.18 | Jack87 | hehe figured you were the right person to ask |
| 05:00.20 | destinal_ | Jack87: occam's razor |
| 05:00.35 | chrisa | We're not going to gimp one device so people buy a different one |
| 05:00.44 | oil | lol |
| 05:00.46 | destinal_ | plus it's a maintainability nightmare |
| 05:01.11 | oil | dont companies do that all the time? |
| 05:01.28 | oil | gimp something to get you to buy the more expensive one? |
| 05:01.36 | destinal_ | lol |
| 05:01.38 | Jack87 | well only reason i would question it is because sprints list of features for pre 1.2 did not include facebook app |
| 05:01.45 | Jack87 | and pixi has it in its os |
| 05:01.56 | oil | what makes you think the pixi launches with 1.2? |
| 05:01.58 | destinal_ | Jack87: 1.2 = 1.2 |
| 05:01.59 | chrisa | Ask yourself when pixie is being released |
| 05:02.02 | oil | lol |
| 05:02.03 | Jack87 | but than again sprint 1.2 was supposed to be released yesterday so its not best to rely on it |
| 05:02.06 | oil | 2.0 as far as we know |
| 05:02.16 | oil | well |
| 05:02.29 | oil | as far as everyone in here but chris knows xD |
| 05:02.31 | Jack87 | thats why i ask |
| 05:02.32 | Jack87 | haha |
| 05:02.39 | Jack87 | i dont know |
| 05:02.50 | Jack87 | for all i know at pixi launch it will have email pinch? |
| 05:03.02 | oil | email pinch is the thing in the list>? |
| 05:03.26 | Jack87 | no... |
| 05:03.39 | PuffTheMagic | i dont get all the pixi fuss... its smaller an dhas no wifi |
| 05:03.42 | Jack87 | but they did remove it in 1.2.. atleast for the unfinished 1.2 |
| 05:03.50 | geist | 99 |
| 05:03.56 | oil | what is the email pinch? |
| 05:03.57 | Jack87 | ya but girls will like it.. i think its a pertty cool device |
| 05:04.09 | Xyg | I think Jack means being able to pinch to expand emails in preview |
| 05:04.11 | Jack87 | go into your email oil and expand pinch |
| 05:04.13 | destinal_ | geist: 9-9-9 |
| 05:04.20 | oil | thats the most retarded feature ever |
| 05:04.23 | oil | im glad they dropped it |
| 05:04.23 | geist | 99 |
| 05:04.28 | Xyg | and yes, I'm glad they dropped it too |
| 05:04.34 | Jack87 | haha i never use it but its not th point |
| 05:04.35 | geist | destinal_: oh yeah, still 2 more hours left in 9/9/9 |
| 05:04.39 | oil | it snot? |
| 05:04.40 | Eguy | geeeeeesh there are a lot of angry adolescents on the P|C forums today |
| 05:04.44 | oil | they shouldnt remove useless features? |
| 05:04.56 | Jack87 | i want to see if i can mod my own web os by picking and choosing features from other versions |
| 05:05.07 | oil | lol |
| 05:05.17 | geist | pimp your webos |
| 05:05.27 | oil | its already got spinners |
| 05:05.30 | geist | we put in more pinch so you can pinch your email when you email |
| 05:05.32 | Jack87 | they removed usful new card feature for browser links.. luckily its back in 1.2 |
| 05:05.44 | destinal_ | geist: lol |
| 05:05.46 | oil | it was probably an accident |
| 05:05.56 | Jack87 | geist has the idea |
| 05:05.59 | Jack87 | !:) |
| 05:06.02 | destinal_ | sup dawg |
| 05:07.18 | *** join/#webos-internals Gadfly (n=Gadfly@197-218-pool1.P-POOL.MARIST.EDU) |
| 05:07.37 | destinal_ | geist: 400px height feels too short now.. just subconsciously wrong since I'm used to 480. luna on a 320x800px screen is fun though |
| 05:07.53 | oil | lol |
| 05:08.05 | geist | yeah, but it's a testament to web based layout |
| 05:08.12 | geist | it's pretty easy to deal with multiple screen sizes |
| 05:08.15 | Jack87 | geist |
| 05:08.16 | destinal_ | yeah it works great |
| 05:08.32 | Jack87 | so when logging into my phone after dr recoveryi put in password wrong twice |
| 05:08.36 | Jack87 | it asked my secret question |
| 05:08.50 | Jack87 | but than i remembered my password and it wouldnt let me go back to enter it made me reset it |
| 05:08.58 | oil | lol |
| 05:09.04 | oil | thats what you get for forgetting |
| 05:09.10 | Jack87 | i know huh |
| 05:09.10 | oil | you have to create a new one to forget |
| 05:09.10 | rwhitby | chrisa: re: preware logging - the ipkg stdout and stderr come across dbus (dbus-util --capture to see them) and the ipkg log menu item shows them |
| 05:09.20 | Jack87 | it should let me use back gesture i would think |
| 05:09.48 | destinal_ | rwhitby: really? that's a change, right? |
| 05:09.56 | Jack87 | maybe thats something to consider chris/geist? |
| 05:10.14 | geist | i'll get right on it |
| 05:10.36 | destinal_ | Jack87: geist and chris are kernel guys. don't bother them with your high level javascript-implemented mumbo jumbo |
| 05:10.40 | destinal_ | :P |
| 05:10.52 | Jack87 | lol |
| 05:10.59 | rwhitby | destinal_: it's done that since ipkgservice 0.8.0 I think |
| 05:12.06 | destinal_ | Jack87: that's like complaining to Linus torvalds about your Ubuntu install |
| 05:12.09 | |Jason8|Raph| | So guys, when can I run WebOS on my HTC touch Pro? :P |
| 05:12.27 | oil | lol |
| 05:12.56 | destinal_ | |Jason8|Raph|: uh, when you hack it to work there? ;) |
| 05:13.05 | |Jason8|Raph| | lol. |
| 05:13.26 | |Jason8|Raph| | Wonder how hard it'd be... some of the linux drivers are already made. |
| 05:13.34 | |Jason8|Raph| | since android is running on it. |
| 05:13.38 | geist | well, not that i'm advocating anything, but the pixi is based on roughtly the same chip |
| 05:13.38 | destinal_ | |Jason8|Raph|: probably, hardhack |
| 05:13.41 | geist | msm based |
| 05:13.45 | destinal_ | oh, right, forgot pixi |
| 05:13.55 | Xyg | "Palm rejected my app because I used undocumented and unsupported API's. I'm super mad!" |
| 05:13.57 | destinal_ | that changes things a lot |
| 05:14.13 | oil | Xyg: nanplayer guy needs a tissue |
| 05:14.20 | Xyg | Indeed he does |
| 05:14.38 | rwhitby | he should have just put it in preware to start with .... |
| 05:14.46 | oil | you dont see the drpodder guy getting all butthurt |
| 05:14.48 | Eguy | yup |
| 05:14.49 | freakout | Palm's own music app uses the same API. I don't get the issue if it works properly. |
| 05:14.55 | oil | he knows he wont be able to submit it until they open that stuff up |
| 05:15.01 | Eguy | It's just slowwwwwwwww as hell |
| 05:15.06 | Seker | "Palm rejected MY app because I wrote it for the Nintendo DS! MONOPOLISTIC BASTARDS!" |
| 05:15.07 | Eguy | like the calendar |
| 05:15.08 | Jack87 | xyg what app was that |
| 05:15.12 | destinal_ | freakout: because their functionality probably requires com.palm namespace now |
| 05:15.16 | rwhitby | freakout: it's about the ability to change undocumented APIs before they become officially supported. |
| 05:15.24 | Jack87 | xyg is nanplayer guy |
| 05:15.25 | Jack87 | ? |
| 05:15.30 | Eguy | Nein |
| 05:15.35 | Xyg | jack87, see the Precentral forums. It's the NaNplayer fellow |
| 05:15.44 | freakout | I've emailed Chuq about this one, seeking clarification on Palm's policy here. |
| 05:15.53 | freakout | And asking whether or not they intend to document it and open it up. |
| 05:15.54 | HattCzech | haha, that's why i haven't submitted mine |
| 05:16.02 | HattCzech | using the com.palm namespace isn't a good idea :) |
| 05:16.09 | destinal_ | freakout: I think their policy is pretty clear, don't use anything not in the official docs or you may not get in |
| 05:16.20 | freakout | destinal_ : sounds fair enough |
| 05:16.28 | freakout | But I'd still like to hear it from Palm themselves |
| 05:16.28 | Jack87 | oh you are quoting him |
| 05:16.40 | Xyg | It's a good summary :) |
| 05:16.59 | HattCzech | i'd like palm to open up some of their services :) |
| 05:17.08 | HattCzech | instead of telling us we can't use them |
| 05:17.20 | destinal_ | HattCzech: I've heard rumors that there'll be more granular control of bus access, but just rumors |
| 05:17.40 | Jack87 | wow werid |
| 05:17.42 | HattCzech | think they'll let me pick up on the SMS bus? :D hahah |
| 05:17.44 | destinal_ | having to have com.palm to get private bus is not ideal, ACL's would be better |
| 05:18.02 | HattCzech | ACLs? |
| 05:18.04 | Jack87 | ok... so last time i did web os dr i had to reenter all my settings for exchange google and facebook |
| 05:18.10 | destinal_ | HattCzech: access control list |
| 05:18.12 | Jack87 | this time it is automatically doing it |
| 05:18.23 | Jack87 | did palmchange something in their whole backing up process |
| 05:18.32 | HattCzech | where palm would control what has access? |
| 05:18.41 | Jack87 | its onlly been like a week and a half |
| 05:18.46 | destinal_ | Jack87: they've always had this. |
| 05:18.49 | destinal_ | welcome to the cloud |
| 05:19.05 | Jack87 | i had to manually renter everything last time destinal |
| 05:19.15 | Jack87 | like 10 days ago |
| 05:19.20 | destinal_ | Jack87: then something went wrong last time |
| 05:19.24 | destinal_ | I never have had to |
| 05:19.31 | Jack87 | got it |
| 05:19.36 | Jack87 | thanks for clearification |
| 05:19.50 | Jack87 | oh nice |
| 05:19.59 | PuffTheMagic | i/ve restored twice |
| 05:20.04 | PuffTheMagic | always restored my data |
| 05:20.11 | PuffTheMagic | for the most part |
| 05:20.18 | HattCzech | destinal_: are you saying palm should have ACLs and allow access to specific people/companies? |
| 05:20.41 | Jack87 | so i had two exchange accounts set up before mylast webos dr and when i had to manually reenter everything i skipped the other one was too lazy to look up server address... this time around it included that other exchange account |
| 05:20.43 | destinal1 | HattCzech: no, to allow a user to authorize apps for certain functions |
| 05:20.51 | destinal1 | android does a lot of this |
| 05:20.59 | HattCzech | ahhhh, gotcha... blackberry does too |
| 05:21.05 | HattCzech | yeah, that would be nice |
| 05:21.06 | destinal1 | or at least (in the least granular case) allow private bus to an app. |
| 05:21.56 | Jack87 | chris and glist... are you on the clock? |
| 05:22.38 | HattCzech | night all |
| 05:22.50 | Jack87 | bye hatt |
| 05:24.37 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: what's the url for the updated batteryservice src? |
| 05:24.50 | Jack87 | wow i am really liking this copy and paste in browser |
| 05:24.59 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: http://git.preyourmind.org/?p=us.ryanhope.sysfsbatteryservice |
| 05:25.09 | Jack87 | auto zoom is pretty to |
| 05:26.38 | Jack87 | i cant seem to get one sentence just whole paragraphs |
| 05:27.32 | Zuchmir2 | ok, looking, you say subscription is now working? |
| 05:27.44 | PuffTheMagic | yeah |
| 05:27.48 | PuffTheMagic | for any of the methods |
| 05:27.55 | PuffTheMagic | pass it subscribe:true |
| 05:27.59 | Zuchmir2 | cool, don't see the update in the feed |
| 05:28.07 | PuffTheMagic | no release yet ;) |
| 05:28.14 | Zuchmir2 | ok |
| 05:28.15 | PuffTheMagic | i just go it working |
| 05:28.19 | PuffTheMagic | then watched a show |
| 05:28.51 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: i figured you would point all this stuff wrong |
| 05:28.57 | PuffTheMagic | that i'd need to fix before another release :D |
| 05:29.37 | Zuchmir2 | ok, np |
| 05:30.46 | *** join/#webos-internals AgentSmith_ (n=AgentSmi@c-71-56-237-125.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 05:33.34 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: so re: g_convert |
| 05:33.45 | PuffTheMagic | without it the service breaks |
| 05:33.54 | PuffTheMagic | causes the json payload is not utf-8 |
| 05:34.00 | PuffTheMagic | when you access that id field |
| 05:34.15 | PuffTheMagic | and i do a transform it should work for all fields |
| 05:34.18 | *** join/#webos-internals _acyd_ (n=acydlord@174.17.67.87) |
| 05:34.21 | PuffTheMagic | since i can cat the files manually |
| 05:34.29 | PuffTheMagic | and everthing works fine |
| 05:34.43 | PuffTheMagic | no special treatment for a certain file |
| 05:39.41 | *** join/#webos-internals kesne (n=Kesne@pool-173-50-235-167.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 05:41.35 | Zuchmir2 | if the only one that needs convertion is id, i would treat it secial |
| 05:41.48 | Zuchmir2 | because it's not really a string |
| 05:44.54 | PuffTheMagic | everything can be a string |
| 05:45.58 | Zuchmir2 | but id looks to me like binary |
| 05:48.01 | Jack87 | who wrote all the scripts in optware install and quilt |
| 05:48.24 | Jack87 | for installation |
| 05:48.27 | Jack87 | was it rod? |
| 05:49.24 | Eguy | No |
| 05:49.29 | Eguy | I believe Puff ddi |
| 05:49.30 | Eguy | did |
| 05:49.40 | Jack87 | very well done puff me likie |
| 05:50.16 | Jack87 | it looks like he used mytether model of using shell scripts |
| 05:50.44 | *** join/#webos-internals Rubin (n=rubin@cronor.simplanet.org) |
| 05:50.53 | Jack87 | im going to try to fix the broken wifi tethering in 1.2 wish me luck |
| 05:52.09 | freakout | wishes Jack87 luck |
| 05:52.36 | Jack87 | eh oh... when i ssh.. it doesnt like my password. how can i reset it? |
| 05:53.43 | Eguy | passwd |
| 05:53.48 | Eguy | unsername |
| 05:54.07 | Jack87 | both |
| 05:56.20 | Jack87 | passwd reset my root password as a telnet login |
| 05:56.35 | Jack87 | how do i reset the optware ssh password? |
| 05:56.59 | Eguy | passwd user name |
| 05:57.55 | Jack87 | awsesomeo |
| 05:58.14 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: can you please put your makefile in there, it's an overkill to have to run scripts to generate a makefile for a small project like this |
| 05:59.11 | Jack87 | question on the wiki why does it recomand to set up sftp in the lower links |
| 05:59.28 | Jack87 | the script for optware sets it up |
| 06:02.47 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: some mods http://pastebin.com/d43f11a72 |
| 06:08.40 | AnOutsider | hmm |
| 06:08.56 | AnOutsider | I installed git, am I supposed to just clone the repo from http://git.webos-internals.org/ ? |
| 06:09.06 | AnOutsider | trying to grab these packaging classes |
| 06:12.00 | Zuchmir2 | PuffTheMagic: some more mods http://pastebin.com/d49dd801e |
| 06:22.15 | tmzt | are the newly released (or unreleased) images only for cortex? |
| 06:26.14 | geist | tmzt: hmm? |
| 06:26.21 | geist | armv7 you mean? |
| 06:26.44 | Jack87 | i think i broke my wifi sad |
| 06:27.01 | Jack87 | so they changed the drivers in 1.2 is i understand correctly? |
| 06:27.23 | Jack87 | any reasoning for it? |
| 06:27.28 | geist | hmm? |
| 06:28.09 | Jack87 | geist any insight? |
| 06:28.19 | geist | maybe if you asked a real question |
| 06:28.41 | Jack87 | were the wifi drivers changed? and what for? |
| 06:28.53 | geist | in what, on what? |
| 06:28.56 | geist | in what way? |
| 06:29.17 | Jack87 | in 1.2 were the wifi drivers changed to prevent ad hoc |
| 06:29.24 | geist | beats me |
| 06:29.30 | geist | we haven't relased 1.2 yet anyway |
| 06:30.10 | geist | so some little voice is telling you that ad-hod doesn't work in 1.2? |
| 06:30.19 | oil | lol |
| 06:30.21 | geist | i can ask, if i remember |
| 06:30.21 | Jack87 | yup |
| 06:30.43 | Jack87 | thanks |
| 06:30.48 | geist | but i dont know offhand. wifi and bluetooth is handled by another group, we just give em the kernel to link against |
| 06:31.06 | geist | i try to stay far away. plausible deniability |
| 06:31.30 | freakout | taking lessons from the CIA, geist? :P |
| 06:31.38 | Jack87 | understood well if you get insight it be great |
| 06:31.42 | geist | heh, 10 years in the business teaches you that |
| 06:32.18 | rwhitby | I have a term for that : S.E.P. |
| 06:32.49 | Jack87 | sep? |
| 06:34.02 | rwhitby | Someone Else's Problem |
| 06:34.24 | freakout | heh. convenient |
| 06:34.44 | geist | it's a protection mechanism in larger companies |
| 06:34.54 | geist | since you dont have the brain cycles to handle everything at once |
| 06:35.02 | geist | and pattern i once tended to fall into |
| 06:35.30 | geist | it's better to just not know, so you dont get worked up about how screwed up it inevitably is :) |
| 06:36.03 | freakout | True that. I employed the same method myself when I was working for the city council |
| 06:36.12 | freakout | ...as did the rest of the organisation. |
| 06:36.22 | freakout | No wonder the taxpayers hated us so much. :) |
| 06:37.35 | DraX | anyone know what js engine is actually in webos? |
| 06:37.49 | tmzt | geist: yes |
| 06:37.57 | tmzt | for Pixi support |
| 06:38.08 | geist | ... |
| 06:38.19 | tmzt | DraX: I think they are using v8 |
| 06:38.29 | geist | DraX: yes |
| 06:38.41 | DraX | any idea what version of v8? |
| 06:38.51 | geist | isn't there only one version? |
| 06:39.07 | DraX | it's being developed pretty constantly |
| 06:39.22 | geist | then it's some version |
| 06:39.31 | geist | probably some snapshot + patches |
| 06:39.33 | tmzt | would that version string be in about somewhere? |
| 06:39.33 | DraX | like the new regex engine is fairly recent |
| 06:39.37 | geist | didn't we drop the source? |
| 06:39.48 | tmzt | for 1.2? |
| 06:39.54 | geist | for v8 |
| 06:40.04 | geist | look. 1.2 DOES NOT EXIST as far as i'm concerned |
| 06:40.08 | geist | so dont ask me about it |
| 06:40.16 | geist | when it shows up it'll show up, okay? |
| 06:40.54 | tmzt | ah, ok |
| 06:40.59 | DraX | erm |
| 06:41.04 | tmzt | wasn't following that closely |
| 06:41.06 | DraX | i see Javascriptcore in the opensource.palm packages |
| 06:41.11 | DraX | but that's not v8 |
| 06:41.13 | freakout | lol @ geist |
| 06:41.32 | freakout | geist: So 1.2 tomorrow? :P |
| 06:41.36 | DraX | i'm not even sure that's SFE |
| 06:41.36 | tmzt | so 1.1 sources |
| 06:41.43 | geist | freakout: absolutely |
| 06:41.53 | freakout | blogs madly |
| 06:41.57 | geist | hah |
| 06:42.07 | tmzt | I know Pixi is on palm.com (for Sprint) and that's really all I know |
| 06:42.10 | freakout | "Palm Confirms 1.2 Tomorrow, With Free Unicorns" |
| 06:42.14 | geist | yay |
| 06:42.25 | geist | we can finally get em out of the halls |
| 06:42.27 | geist | they stink |
| 06:42.42 | geist | even their rainbow poop |
| 06:43.12 | freakout | Really? Those damn salespeople down at the stables have been lying to me! |
| 06:43.15 | DraX | yeah the javascript engine on opensource.palm.com for 1.1.0 is _way_ old |
| 06:43.26 | geist | then, that's what we shipped |
| 06:43.26 | DraX | and not v8 |
| 06:43.34 | geist | it's definitely v8 |
| 06:43.55 | DraX | that's not v8 |
| 06:44.03 | geist | so maybe that's anotherone, maybe it uses a more traditional one for some other purpose? |
| 06:44.10 | geist | i frankly have no idea how any of that crap works |
| 06:44.30 | geist | but being kind of the resident ARM guy, i didn't help them debug a pile of v8 problems a year ago for nuthin |
| 06:45.19 | DraX | well if y'all are using v8 you didn't release the source on opensource. |
| 06:45.43 | DraX | which you're not obligated to do |
| 06:45.47 | DraX | since it's bsdish |
| 06:45.50 | geist | ah |
| 06:46.11 | tmzt | DraX: what's the goal? |
| 06:46.20 | geist | perhaps. though i'm pretty sure whatever bugfixes we did someone pushed them back to the open sauce |
| 06:46.31 | DraX | tmzt: mainly curiousity |
| 06:46.31 | geist | there were some initial EABI problems that took some fixin |
| 06:47.23 | tmzt | I wonder if android uses v8 for it's browser implementation |
| 06:47.38 | tmzt | since they would have had the same problem I would think |
| 06:47.54 | geist | i dont think they did for 1.0 |
| 06:47.57 | geist | maybe by now |
| 06:48.05 | DraX | yeah they did the arm port of v8 for android though |
| 06:48.08 | geist | i remember asking my android buddies about it, and they were going to look for it |
| 06:48.19 | geist | DraX: that's not what i heard |
| 06:48.37 | DraX | geist: what did you hear? |
| 06:48.40 | geist | story i heard was the v8 stuff for arm was not really for android, but for the chrome stuff |
| 06:48.44 | geist | different team within the company |
| 06:48.52 | geist | google is HUGE |
| 06:48.53 | tmzt | right |
| 06:48.55 | DraX | maybe from chromeos |
| 06:49.02 | tmzt | but android browser is webkit |
| 06:49.13 | geist | of course, and i'm sure they've integrated it by now |
| 06:49.17 | Jack87 | chrome os tmzt |
| 06:49.19 | tmzt | and if they didn't use v8 it's jsc |
| 06:49.21 | geist | but it definitely wasn't a 1.0 thing for android |
| 06:49.42 | tmzt | Jack87: what does that have to do with it |
| 06:50.46 | tmzt | Jack87: |
| 06:50.56 | geist | what's love got to do with it? |
| 06:51.06 | DraX | hmm, i wonder if the new regex engine is in the v8 in webos |
| 06:51.27 | DraX | geist: did you have to fight with the regex -> asm compiler? |
| 06:51.34 | tmzt | Jack87: android also uses webkit |
| 06:51.39 | geist | points out that he is a kernel guy |
| 06:51.48 | freakout | Mmmmmm, popcorn. |
| 06:51.53 | DraX | yes but you said you'd helped with the arm weirdness in v8 |
| 06:51.56 | tmzt | through jnI |
| 06:52.16 | geist | ruh roh, if i answer are you gonna blog that palm is definitely doing XXX or YYY? |
| 06:52.43 | DraX | geist: no, i'm just curious |
| 06:52.45 | freakout | blocks ears |
| 06:53.02 | geist | i dunno |
| 06:53.07 | DraX | ok |
| 06:53.25 | DraX | thanks for bothering to answer at all :) |
| 06:53.27 | geist | we got some new arm guys around that have generally been fielding that stuff |
| 06:55.01 | freakout | geist, what about those game guys? |
| 06:55.06 | freakout | (promise not to quote!) |
| 06:55.09 | geist | nice one |
| 06:55.15 | geist | not gonna bite |
| 06:55.20 | freakout | lol |
| 06:55.24 | DraX | i do server-side js stuff for $WORK, so i'm curious about other JS usage out there in general |
| 06:55.38 | *** join/#webos-internals Eguy (n=Eguy@cpe-76-172-219-51.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 06:55.44 | geist | i need to try my hand at it one of these days. never hacked a line of it ever |
| 06:55.56 | geist | JS that is. games sure. i'm even on mobygames! |
| 06:56.16 | DraX | it's a cool language if you don't get offended by some of its nasty bits |
| 06:56.35 | geist | that's what i hear. if you know what parts to avoid it's not so bad |
| 06:56.51 | freakout | geist: mobygames under "geist"? there's a few |
| 06:57.12 | DraX | and it's a cool language to dig into, because then you can do some pretty crazy stuff |
| 06:57.24 | geist | http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,320852/ |
| 06:57.31 | geist | sadly the game wasn't really that good |
| 06:57.37 | freakout | lol |
| 06:57.37 | geist | but i think the engine looked okay |
| 06:57.42 | freakout | I was wondering how to say that diplomatically |
| 06:58.05 | freakout | The sequel looks better. |
| 06:58.05 | geist | it made enough money though, sinc ehte movie was so good |
| 06:58.18 | geist | it was 1.0 on the game engine too |
| 06:58.26 | geist | i did a lot of the ps3 port |
| 06:58.32 | freakout | ouch? |
| 06:58.37 | freakout | PS3 horror stories abound |
| 06:58.45 | *** join/#webos-internals jauderho (n=jauderho@c-67-180-237-183.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:58.52 | geist | nah, it was fun. most programmers are wusses |
| 06:58.59 | geist | compared to the xbox, it's an actual challenge |
| 06:59.00 | Eguy | The price was a horror story |
| 06:59.04 | freakout | *cough* Valve *cough* |
| 06:59.24 | geist | xbox is super easy to hack on if you come from the PC world |
| 06:59.33 | geist | since it's just windows + dx essentially |
| 07:00.16 | geist | the other interesting tidbit that most folks dont realize is the xbox is actually a lot better hardware than ps3 |
| 07:00.25 | geist | even though the ps3 came out a year later, it has an underpowered gpu |
| 07:00.26 | freakout | Oh brother |
| 07:00.30 | freakout | Don't say that on game blogs |
| 07:00.47 | freakout | The PS3 hardware is just under-exploited meme has taken full force |
| 07:01.04 | geist | yeah, the gpu on the xbox kicks the crap out of the ps3 one |
| 07:01.17 | geist | you can mitigate it somewhat by preprocessing as much as you can on the cell processor |
| 07:01.26 | geist | that can help a lot for a lot of geometry based stuff |
| 07:01.37 | geist | but it doesn't help at all with pure pixel shader throughput |
| 07:01.39 | Eguy | geist: of course, it is ATI...It can't be good ;) |
| 07:01.44 | freakout | So what's your take on Naughty Dog's "We couldn't do Uncharted 2 on Xbox" claims then? |
| 07:01.55 | freakout | hogwash? I figured it was. |
| 07:02.17 | Eguy | My xbox gets laggy when there is a lot going on....probably overheating |
| 07:02.20 | geist | so generally speaking the ps3 specific games tend to be high on lots of geometry |
| 07:02.26 | geist | simpler shaders |
| 07:02.30 | geist | it can deal with that pretty well |
| 07:02.46 | geist | but when it comes to generic engines, which the bulk of the games are, you end up limiting the ps3 |
| 07:02.52 | geist | since the xobx is super easy to program for |
| 07:02.58 | geist | very straightforward to hack |
| 07:03.08 | freakout | I've read in several places that if you're doing cross-platform stuff you're better off with the PS3 as the lead platform |
| 07:03.19 | geist | right, since it's more limited |
| 07:03.19 | freakout | Since you have to do so much extra work if you start on the 360 |
| 07:03.33 | geist | right, that was what my task was for the ironman game |
| 07:03.41 | geist | we eventually settled on 60fps for xbox, 30 for ps3 |
| 07:03.44 | Jack87 | psp hacking is easy and fun :) |
| 07:03.55 | geist | we were lucky we had already had a target for 60fps for xbox |
| 07:04.22 | geist | and limited ps3 to 720p |
| 07:04.45 | geist | on the flipside, when you dev for xbox you limit your game resources to 8GB, since it only has a dvd player |
| 07:04.54 | Jack87 | freakout why wouldnt it be easier to have pc as the lead platform? |
| 07:05.08 | freakout | is not a game developer, Jack87 ;) |
| 07:05.17 | freakout | is just a voracious reader and asker-of-questions |
| 07:05.17 | geist | otoh, the bluray reader can do 50GB, but the troughput isnt any faster |
| 07:05.30 | Eguy | http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/09/07/girls-lost-in-drain-rescued-due-to-facebook-status-update srsly? |
| 07:05.47 | oil | jack is pc gamer so thats all he cares about |
| 07:05.55 | Jack87 | indeed |
| 07:06.07 | Jack87 | sad you retired pcs oil.. but whatever works best for you :) |
| 07:06.17 | freakout | geist: I also recall reading that PS3's extra blu-ray space gets used mainly in duplicating data, to speed up reading |
| 07:06.19 | jauderho | that is sad |
| 07:06.30 | geist | freakout: yeah, tat's a common strategy |
| 07:06.31 | freakout | Eguy: that's so hopeless, ain't it? |
| 07:06.44 | geist | you aggressively preprocess your game so that all the data comes off in one stripe |
| 07:06.55 | Eguy | Kids these days.... makes me want to cry |
| 07:06.56 | geist | and compress the crap out of it, since you have enough cpu to decode it in real time |
| 07:07.01 | Eguy | I feel all old right now |
| 07:07.35 | freakout | Eguy: i figure they were maybe just too embarrassed at their own stupidity to call emergency |
| 07:07.53 | geist | though one of the nice things about ps3 is it always has a HD, whereas you can't rely on it existing on xbox |
| 07:08.00 | geist | stupid msft |
| 07:08.02 | freakout | indeed |
| 07:08.13 | freakout | Not to mention the *ridiculous* pricing on their HDDs |
| 07:08.31 | Eguy | I got the 120gig xbox drive on closeout |
| 07:08.35 | Eguy | like the hddvd drive |
| 07:08.36 | Eguy | haha |
| 07:08.48 | freakout | IMO, they were way to aggressive in cost-cutting after the original Xbox costs blew up in their face |
| 07:08.58 | freakout | and the RROD issues were their comeuppance. |
| 07:09.21 | freakout | And Peter Moore's, too. Poor guy |
| 07:09.28 | freakout | Eguy: how much? |
| 07:09.41 | Eguy | I don't remember |
| 07:10.28 | freakout | thinks Eguy has too much money if he can't remember how much he spends on things :P |
| 07:10.37 | Eguy | I am loaded man |
| 07:10.41 | freakout | thinks Eguy should provide him an interest-free loan |
| 07:10.47 | Eguy | I just bought 10 pre's for rwhitby |
| 07:10.50 | freakout | lol |
| 07:13.24 | tmzt | free: I just hope the msm chip will have the ati gpu, but I think it's same as g1/hero/etc. |
| 07:13.31 | tmzt | freakout: |
| 07:13.42 | tmzt | the new |
| 07:15.07 | freakout | tmzt: huh? |
| 07:15.50 | Eguy | I think he is talking about the Pixi |
| 07:15.57 | tmzt | have you seen the new webos device? |
| 07:16.03 | tmzt | yeah |
| 07:16.04 | freakout | ohhh |
| 07:17.07 | freakout | geist, chrisa: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/6718/inside-the-pixi-processor/ |
| 07:17.18 | freakout | Does that match with reality? |
| 07:17.25 | freakout | (not that i expect you to be able to reveal...) |
| 07:17.27 | Eguy | They won't be able to comment |
| 07:17.49 | rwhitby | hmm - is it 7227 or 7627 - I think I saw the latter on some forums |
| 07:17.59 | freakout | Eguy: I figured that. But one day I might get lucky and catch them whilst they're drunk |
| 07:18.05 | Eguy | LOL |
| 07:18.29 | geist | rwhitby: doesn't matter. all the 7x27s are essentially the same as far as the apps processor is concerned |
| 07:18.40 | Eguy | Oooh |
| 07:19.13 | geist | in case it isn't clear, the 7xxx cpus from QC are all integrated apps processor + radio processor |
| 07:19.26 | geist | so it's a single chip phone, essentially |
| 07:19.29 | freakout | rwhitby: you're right, it's 7627. i'll hate to correct that |
| 07:19.47 | freakout | *have |
| 07:20.29 | freakout | s/hate/have |
| 07:20.42 | freakout | fails at infobot polling |
| 07:21.09 | oil | infobot is mia |
| 07:21.16 | oil | oh, there he is |
| 07:21.19 | oil | hes got v? |
| 07:21.30 | oil | lol |
| 07:22.58 | freakout | Qualcomm's site has nothing on the 7627. odd |
| 07:23.37 | geist | like i said 7x27 is the same as far as apps are concerned. some radio difference |
| 07:24.10 | geist | i think, at least |
| 07:24.11 | freakout | Graphics acceleration? |
| 07:24.44 | geist | well, no more info |
| 07:24.49 | rwhitby | oil: infobot is very important - he gets +v |
| 07:24.58 | geist | if QC hasn't documented, then ig uess they dont want you to know |
| 07:25.00 | geist | pity |
| 07:25.04 | freakout | haha |
| 07:25.04 | Eguy | He isn't really a he |
| 07:25.13 | freakout | is already emailing Qualcomm anyway |
| 07:30.16 | tmzt | 76 would be cdma |
| 07:30.37 | freakout | would that be the only difference? |
| 07:31.01 | freakout | (taking geist's previous statement into account) |
| 07:31.30 | Eguy | freakout is in probing mode today lol |
| 07:31.48 | freakout | still feels burned by Precentral's Pixi exclusive |
| 07:31.53 | tmzt | I think so |
| 07:31.55 | freakout | want *revenge*! :P |
| 07:32.08 | geist | freakout SMASH |
| 07:32.13 | tmzt | threa source in surpra already for the gsm one at least |
| 07:32.26 | freakout | lol |
| 07:32.32 | tmzt | there's |
| 07:32.48 | freakout | hmmmm |
| 07:32.54 | tmzt | can't type |
| 07:33.10 | freakout | neither can my cat, tmzt. still love him ;) |
| 07:33.27 | freakout | in a purely platonic manly way... |
| 07:33.38 | geist | aww, makes me sad. I had to give up my cat last weekend |
| 07:33.44 | tmzt | aurora |
| 07:33.55 | freakout | geist: sucks. how come? |
| 07:34.00 | geist | she's happy at my sisters house, but i'm still sad she's not here |
| 07:34.02 | Eguy | hates cats |
| 07:34.12 | tmzt | auroracode.org |
| 07:34.12 | geist | well, thinking of moving, and it's hard to find a place that takes pets |
| 07:34.19 | freakout | is not surprised, the cats hate Eguy too :P |
| 07:34.20 | geist | and i keep going on these long business trips |
| 07:34.36 | tmzt | or other way around |
| 07:34.45 | freakout | tmzt: cheers |
| 07:35.04 | tmzt | can never remember |
| 07:35.11 | freakout | geist: s |
| 07:35.20 | freakout | s'pose it's not fair to 'em to leave 'em alone. |
| 07:36.03 | freakout | Mine hates it. |
| 07:36.17 | freakout | You can tell how pleased he is when I come home, but he tries to hide it |
| 07:36.30 | geist | yeah |
| 07:36.41 | tmzt | 8mpix would be better cde or dsp thanothge msm chips I think |
| 07:36.52 | freakout | It's like "Oh, you're back? Fine, whatever. I just *happen* to be around wherever you are for days afterward. Don't get any ideas that I like you or anything." |
| 07:36.57 | tmzt | vfe |
| 07:37.04 | tmzt | videofront end |
| 07:39.16 | freakout | Oo, a wiki. |
| 07:41.04 | freakout | With android and apple repos? |
| 07:41.20 | freakout | but no palm. Unless I'm looking at the wrong chips |
| 07:41.43 | rwhitby | freakout: maybe you can do a story about the NaNPlayer guy - take the different tack from PreCentral and say how the guy has violated his SDK EULA by using undocumented APIs ... |
| 07:42.01 | tmzt | nothing here yet but wow |
| 07:42.03 | tmzt | https://www.codeaurora.org/index.php?xwinp |
| 07:42.10 | freakout | rwhitby: ARGH |
| 07:42.14 | freakout | did they do a story already? |
| 07:42.42 | rwhitby | freakout: Title it "Taking My Marbles home cause those big Palm bullies won't let me play in their playground. Sob Sob" |
| 07:42.48 | freakout | lol |
| 07:43.09 | freakout | The guy has been very nice in my talks with him |
| 07:43.25 | rwhitby | yeah, I'm sure he's a nice guy. |
| 07:43.28 | freakout | I don't want to be flat-out *mean* |
| 07:43.49 | rwhitby | but he's got to be joking if he thinks he can use undocumented features and then be upset if his app is not accepted as a result. |
| 07:44.16 | rwhitby | that'd be like us submitting Preware to Palm and kicking up a big press stink when it is rejected. |
| 07:44.18 | freakout | here you go, a sneak preview of tomorrow's article: |
| 07:44.26 | freakout | "Before we grab the pitchforks and flaming torches and descend upon Sunnyvale, however, it should be noted that there are technical consequences that arise from the use of undocumented APIs. For instance, it's logical to assume that being undocumented means that the API has not been fully developed and is still subject to change, potentially breaking NaNplayer with any future updates and leading to unhappy customers. " |
| 07:45.01 | freakout | also against the EULA, eh? |
| 07:47.10 | rwhitby | don't believe me on that - check it out |
| 07:47.18 | oil | makes post about palm rejecting preware |
| 07:47.20 | freakout | heh, i trust you |
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| 07:47.34 | rwhitby | I wouldn't - I make stuff up all the time. |
| 07:47.38 | freakout | lol |
| 07:47.48 | freakout | Like your bum link yesterday about the MSM7227? :P |
| 07:48.19 | freakout | like i said earlier, I've asked Chuq to explain the situation for me |
| 07:48.48 | freakout | assuming he responds to my emails for a change, there should be some nice soothing words for all parties |
| 07:49.12 | freakout | at Palm Infocenter, we like to holds hands and sing kum-ba-yag |
| 07:49.32 | freakout | s/kum-ba-yag/kum-ba-yah |
| 07:50.20 | rwhitby | heh - I'm going to a scout leader meeting tonight and all ... |
| 07:50.42 | oil | freakout infobot fail x2 |
| 07:50.44 | freakout | enjoy, rwhitby |
| 07:50.48 | freakout | ~botsnack |
| 07:50.48 | infobot | freakout: :) |
| 07:50.54 | freakout | Maybe that'll fix it? |
| 07:51.10 | freakout | s/fix/fart |
| 07:51.19 | freakout | stupid infobot! |
| 07:51.22 | freakout | ~botsmack |
| 07:51.23 | infobot | OWW! |
| 07:51.29 | oil | lol |
| 07:51.34 | oil | i didnt know there was a smack option |
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| 07:51.42 | freakout | lol. neither did I till just now |
| 07:51.51 | oil | i think you need a trailing / |
| 07:51.59 | freakout | hmmm. Test. |
| 07:52.14 | freakout | s/test/sanctum/ |
| 07:52.24 | freakout | freaking hell. |
| 07:52.25 | oil | or he just doesnt like you |
| 07:53.31 | freakout | That is a possibility. I can be a dick. (ask an ex...) |
| 07:54.37 | oil | and you smacked him |
| 07:54.57 | freakout | infobot likes it rough |
| 07:54.57 | infobot | ACTION runs and gives it rough a big bear-hug. |
| 07:55.15 | freakout | lol |
| 07:55.26 | freakout | infobot likes Rosie O'Donnell |
| 07:55.27 | infobot | ACTION runs and gives Rosie O'Donnell a big bear-hug. |
| 07:55.47 | freakout | infobot likes a flamboyantly gay man, who is nude and dripping with honey |
| 07:55.48 | infobot | ACTION runs and gives a flamboyantly gay man, who is nude and dripping with honey a big bear-hug. |
| 07:56.24 | oil | lol |
| 07:56.37 | rwhitby | freakout: trailing / (don't you know sed) and you need to get the case right |
| 07:56.56 | rwhitby | you've failed the syntax on all tries ;-) |
| 07:57.11 | freakout | rwhitby: You sound like the girls I ask out. ;) |
| 07:57.24 | freakout | has been schooled |
| 07:57.28 | rwhitby | I hope not ... for their sake. |
| 07:57.34 | freakout | Someone please look at this |
| 07:57.36 | freakout | https://www.codeaurora.org/wiki/QLBEP |
| 07:57.47 | freakout | the "apple" branch. |
| 07:57.54 | freakout | That is not for a phone, so far as I know. |
| 07:58.17 | freakout | possibly crazy question, but Secret Tablet? |
| 07:58.36 | rwhitby | starts the counter until someone posts "what's the Optware Bootstrap app (which says in the description that it has no functionality yet, and I just released it to see who would be the first to post a PreCentral thread asking about it) all about?" |
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| 08:03.16 | Jack87 | i sighn up rod want me to post |
| 08:05.03 | tmzt | there'a abothe problem with that, why linux? |
| 08:06.01 | freakout | Good question. |
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| 08:11.45 | tmzt | uh might be an android thing |
| 08:12.06 | tmzt | flavor of cupcake |
| 08:12.16 | freakout | apple cupcake? yummy ;) |
| 08:12.50 | tmzt | can't find where it said qsd |
| 08:19.01 | freakout | okeydoke, bbl. I'm off to rock-climbing |
| 08:23.58 | Jack87 | so has palm been doing OTA to leaked 1.2 reverting back o 1.1? or is that just a fear |
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| 08:37.04 | rwhitby | Jack87: it would be doing a service to their customers if they did, cause you don't know what a real 1.2 OTA update will do to a phone that has an unfinished pre-1.2 on it ... |
| 08:42.31 | Jack87 | im sure it would be a service |
| 08:42.39 | Jack87 | but thats not what i asked |
| 08:42.44 | Jack87 | hum |
| 08:42.58 | rwhitby | yeah, dunno if they have or not. |
| 08:43.17 | rwhitby | I expect it would have been tech-blogged if it has happened. |
| 08:43.55 | Jack87 | people have disablled OTA in fear of it but i have not seen anything actually happen i wonder... i guess ill leave mine be and find out |
| 08:43.57 | acydlord_aao | i think it's just a version check. If sane no update, if not push OTA |
| 08:44.19 | Jack87 | that make sense acylord |
| 08:44.52 | rwhitby | I wonder how many people will forget to turn updates back on, and then get hacked by a security vulnerability which is fixed ... |
| 08:45.03 | acydlord_aao | dunno if it's if version>=1.1 stop or a if version =/=1.1 push |
| 08:45.22 | Jack87 | probably none rod |
| 08:45.50 | acydlord_aao | im sure there will be an alarmist post on precentral to remind them |
| 08:46.03 | rwhitby | acydlord_aao: yeah, we can count on that ;-) |
| 08:46.23 | Jack87 | yup:) |
| 08:46.38 | acydlord_aao | OMFG THE WORLD IS GOING TO EXPLODE AND THE RAPTURE WILL HAPPEN IF YOU DONT RE-ENABLE UPDATES |
| 08:46.44 | acydlord_aao | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:47.09 | Jack87 | he died |
| 08:47.22 | Jack87 | plane crash i think |
| 08:47.27 | Jack87 | or heart thing |
| 08:47.30 | Jack87 | one of the two |
| 08:47.37 | acydlord_aao | coke overdose |
| 08:47.41 | acydlord_aao | after a plane crash |
| 08:47.49 | Jack87 | oh |
| 08:48.14 | Jack87 | i like luna mangaer! |
| 08:48.35 | Jack87 | which one of you bright folks were behind that one? |
| 08:48.58 | acydlord_aao | not i |
| 08:49.07 | acydlord_aao | definitely not robo-steve |
| 08:51.03 | acydlord_aao | i see the optware bootstrap made it into preware |
| 08:51.54 | Jack87 | well made it to the feed that is |
| 08:52.41 | rwhitby | Jack87: oil for the front-end, me for the service. |
| 08:52.49 | rwhitby | (for luna manager) |
| 08:55.17 | Jack87 | good job guys me likie a lot |
| 08:56.08 | Jack87 | for the record the whole 2 of you who dont care.. the flash light app does indeed work in leaked 1.2... i mention it because it was said somewhere that it did not |
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| 08:59.34 | rwhitby | ah, cool. I just had a brainwave on how to easily repackage optware apps for preware :-) |
| 08:59.50 | rwhitby | bbl |
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| 09:07.59 | DdAaDd | Hi. |
| 09:08.52 | DdAaDd | When I'm Using a specific CSS file which I added to the Resource/xx_xx folder he also use his primary Css file with the Css file that in the Resource/xx_xx... |
| 09:09.22 | DdAaDd | How to Set it to be used only the Resource/xx_xx Css file when I'm on this language (selected)? |
| 09:34.58 | *** join/#webos-internals Jack87 (n=Jack87@24.10.241.201) |
| 09:35.25 | Jack87 | how can i find list of network devices on my pre in linux side |
| 09:35.31 | Jack87 | eth0 |
| 09:35.34 | Jack87 | eth1? |
| 09:35.37 | Jack87 | how do i get that list |
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| 09:57.17 | Jack87 | ifconfig? |
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| 10:42.30 | jettero | JackieRipper: ifconfig works. I also like ip addr show |
| 10:42.36 | jettero | oops |
| 10:42.47 | jettero | Jack87, not JackieRipper ... must be he left... yeah, like a hour ago |
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| 12:18.41 | greg_roll | hello would anyone here happen to have a copy of json_utils.h ? |
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| 13:24.36 | bpadalino|work | just read a very interesting article on capacitive touchscreens .. |
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| 14:42.43 | AnOutsider | yawn |
| 14:42.44 | AnOutsider | back to work |
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| 15:07.15 | freakout | bpadalino|work : share link? |
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| 15:23.12 | bpadalino|work | freakout, http://embedded.com/design/testissue/219500393?printable=true |
| 15:23.16 | bpadalino|work | sorry for the delay |
| 15:31.17 | freakout | bpadalino|work : I can never forgive you :P |
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| 17:01.13 | AnOutsider_AFK | is there somewhere to edit the preware config to add new feeds? |
| 17:01.18 | AnOutsider_AFK | need to test my theme ipks |
| 17:03.40 | gkatsev | AnOutsider_AFK: you can install them via webos quickinstall |
| 17:04.28 | AnOutsider_AFK | yeah, that didn't work, but I thought I remembered rwhitby mentioning something about the app doing things diff |
| 17:06.16 | AnOutsider_AFK | anyone familiar with ipks see anythign obviously wrong with this ipk? http://bit.ly/mgvY6 |
| 17:10.27 | egaudet_work | ipks just get extracted I think |
| 17:11.04 | AnOutsider_AFK | any idea where to exactly? if I have to write a postint to move the files where they should be, I'll need to find that |
| 17:11.36 | AnOutsider_AFK | rwhitby mentioned the virtualkeyboard ipk has an example of this. Anyone know where I can grab the vkeyboard ipk? |
| 17:12.59 | Rick_work | AnOutsider_AFK preware.org |
| 17:13.10 | AnOutsider_AFK | weirdness |
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| 17:16.32 | AnOutsider | god I hate Comcass |
| 17:18.06 | gkatsev | but @comcastcares |
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| 17:38.37 | AnOutsider___ | well then |
| 17:39.10 | Eguy | hah comcast sucks |
| 17:39.15 | AnOutsider | majorly |
| 17:39.24 | AnOutsider | and I'm even on their expensive "business class" connection |
| 17:39.27 | Eguy | Luckly I don't have them |
| 17:39.59 | gkatsev | AnOutsider: tweet about it, and youll get more help than if you call them... (unfortunately) |
| 17:40.17 | gkatsev | or fortunately, i dont know which it is |
| 17:41.02 | Eguy | I would call that unfortunately |
| 17:42.23 | gkatsev | Eguy: yeah, but it also means that you can get better service if you tweet to them on twitter so, you if you tweet you get benefits as opposed to the rest of peoples |
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| 17:43.49 | Eguy | Kinda rediuclous though |
| 17:43.56 | Eguy | rediculous |
| 17:43.58 | gkatsev | yes |
| 17:45.51 | Eguy | http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3044/2671279406_556dde3d34.jpg actually that is even more rediculous |
| 17:46.36 | gkatsev | lol |
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| 17:48.15 | Eguy | Fernando @ Sep 10th 2009 1:11PM Oh Palm you Nazi's you suck you control all your crap and never give us anything, the phone is mine and I want everything, derka derka! |
| 17:48.27 | Eguy | Ahhhhh the joys of 14 year olds on Engadget :) |
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| 18:02.53 | destinal | Nice, the forthcoming nokia N900 is supposedly an OMAP3430 also |
| 18:03.06 | destinal | (same as pre) |
| 18:04.22 | AnOutsider | Eguy: is that in response to NaNPlayer rejection? |
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| 18:16.34 | punzada | has his pre up and loaded and configured from stock |
| 18:16.44 | punzada | now time to break it by logging into the shell and doing things I shouldn't |
| 18:17.28 | punzada | and god going from resistive touchscreen to capacitive is fantastic >> |
| 18:26.06 | lmorchard | Eh, doing things you shouldn't includes taking a bath with your pre, but not logging into a shell |
| 18:26.32 | punzada | lol ;p |
| 18:26.38 | punzada | fair enough |
| 18:27.08 | punzada | honestly i've been using linux basically daily for around three years now, chances of me actually doing something wrong is quite slim |
| 18:27.36 | punzada | I'm wanting it to get to 100% charged though and its sitting at 97% |
| 18:27.52 | chrisa | Are you talking about the ui display? |
| 18:27.59 | lmorchard | There's also always the webOS Doctor, which will let you recover from pretty much anything you can do to it |
| 18:28.05 | punzada | yeah |
| 18:28.21 | chrisa | The ui battery % lies intentionally, you're probably actually around 93-94% |
| 18:28.44 | punzada | hmm, lies and says its more then it is, I dont like that, if its going to lie tell me I have less then i do >> |
| 18:29.33 | chrisa | oh, wait. I did say that wrong |
| 18:29.47 | punzada | oh, it does report less then you should have? |
| 18:30.12 | punzada | oh nm anyway, says 100% now |
| 18:30.12 | punzada | nice |
| 18:30.18 | chrisa | It basically comes down to reporting 0% when it has 4-5% left |
| 18:30.28 | punzada | ah, I see |
| 18:30.37 | chrisa | So it can shut down properly, and doesn't get to a dangerous voltage level requiring taper charging |
| 18:30.41 | chrisa | user experience blabla |
| 18:30.47 | punzada | nods |
| 18:30.55 | AZero | what is taper charging mean? |
| 18:30.56 | punzada | that i understand, the reverse confused me ;p |
| 18:31.16 | AZero | does* |
| 18:31.25 | chrisa | When a battery is below a certain voltage (3.1-3.2v or so for batteries like these) it's not safe to charge at a full current threshold |
| 18:31.35 | chrisa | So you trickle charge at a low current until it is |
| 18:31.44 | chrisa | I misspoke before, trickle is for low, taper is for high / topping of |
| 18:31.45 | AZero | it will damage the battery? |
| 18:31.57 | chrisa | Supposedly, I've never tried |
| 18:32.04 | AZero | you should try it and tell me =) |
| 18:32.10 | chrisa | There are plenty of industry requirements (CTIA) requiring you handle it properly |
| 18:32.13 | chrisa | and certifications for charging |
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| 18:35.23 | punzada | this phone makes me wish I didn't friend and add people on aim that I dont' particularly like that much |
| 18:35.31 | punzada | lol |
| 18:35.40 | chrisa | The aim contact thing does get annoying actually |
| 18:37.00 | punzada | otherwise I'm loving this for right now though, I'm used to a battery sucking smart phone so I'm sure that wont bother me any |
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| 19:04.31 | punzada | damn, those lil ear buds the pre comes with sound great |
| 19:05.00 | gkatsev | punzada: yeah, but uncomfortable as hell |
| 19:05.12 | punzada | yeah i could see them not being for everyone |
| 19:05.18 | punzada | they're fairly obtuse |
| 19:06.09 | gkatsev | i got a pair of ultimate ears metrofi 220vi, really comfortable and sound amazing and the cable is sturdy and isnt prone to tangling. want to try the earplug hack on them |
| 19:06.22 | punzada | earplug hack? |
| 19:06.53 | gkatsev | http://lifehacker.com/5347245/make-comfortable-noise+isolating-earbuds-for-less-than-a-dollar |
| 19:07.36 | punzada | ah, nifty |
| 19:07.54 | punzada | lifehacker is on my rss feeds how did I miss that, lol. |
| 19:07.56 | gkatsev | cuz my ears a fairly small |
| 19:07.59 | gkatsev | lol |
| 19:08.14 | gkatsev | lifehacker is one of the feeds i have that i read or at least skim ALL posts |
| 19:14.30 | punzada | i like how it does the screen lock >> |
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| 19:49.30 | punzada | does video need to be in the mp4 container on the pre? |
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| 19:58.01 | Jack87 | hi guys |
| 19:58.03 | Jack87 | whats new |
| 20:00.20 | punzada | trying to figure out proper mencoder/ffmpeg conversion options for my media |
| 20:00.21 | punzada | lol |
| 20:06.50 | Abyssul | What folder contains the quick launch bar? |
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| 20:23.34 | ashi__colo | punzada: here's what worked with my for mencoder: http://ashi.livejournal.com/159532.html |
| 20:23.45 | ashi__colo | for watching with the built-in pre video player |
| 20:24.26 | punzada | ty ;p |
| 20:24.57 | ashi__colo | s/with my/for me |
| 20:25.59 | punzada | i downloaded handbreak for a nice gui solution to see how well that works, nice to have something command line though more my style |
| 20:26.22 | punzada | handbrake* |
| 20:27.02 | chrisa | I've had mixed success with handbrake |
| 20:27.12 | chrisa | But I've only tried a handful of times |
| 20:27.13 | ashi__colo | i actually tried handbrake on ubuntu, and it kept crashing. |
| 20:27.56 | punzada | just finished conversion, we'll see how it goes |
| 20:28.08 | punzada | at this point i just want to see another video pop up besides the default one |
| 20:28.11 | punzada | lol |
| 20:28.13 | ashi__colo | :) |
| 20:29.33 | punzada | video is crisp, subtitles look good, \o/ |
| 20:30.20 | ashi__colo | yay. |
| 20:34.33 | punzada | hmm, would be nice if more containers were supported out of the box, palm should get working on that ;p |
| 20:36.09 | ajames | hopefully i'll have ogm support done soon |
| 20:36.46 | ajames | at the gstreamer level anyway |
| 20:36.59 | ajames | i'm not sure if the upper layers will cooperate |
| 20:41.16 | punzada | no flac support native eh? |
| 20:41.18 | punzada | boo |
| 20:41.28 | punzada | silly palm |
| 20:43.03 | ajames | that's probably next after ogg vorbis |
| 20:43.18 | ajames | 90% of my music is either vorbis or flac :) |
| 20:45.36 | punzada | nice ;p |
| 20:49.21 | rwhitby | morning |
| 20:51.33 | punzada | g'evening :P |
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| 21:00.10 | punzada | hmm, I seem to be in some type of loop in enabling the webos quick install, if i try to download doctor within the installer it cant download it and if i manually download and place it in the folder it says its installed but on restart asks for it again >> |
| 21:05.02 | punzada | nm |
| 21:05.04 | punzada | read the thread |
| 21:05.05 | punzada | ;p |
| 21:07.23 | Decimation__ | hmm |
| 21:07.38 | Decimation__ | fritos on precentral figured out how to send audio/video via mms. |
| 21:08.39 | egaudet_work | he is not going to post each one as a separate .patch because then he has to maintain possibly like 100 different combinations DeCiBeL |
| 21:08.42 | egaudet_work | err Decimation__ |
| 21:08.49 | punzada | hmm same issue still. |
| 21:09.08 | Decimation__ | ahh |
| 21:09.18 | Decimation__ | well, he should post each one for people who want to edit it manually |
| 21:09.23 | egaudet_work | What he should do is add enabe/disable to each one in the preferences of the messaging app |
| 21:09.35 | Decimation__ | people who know enough to do so, so they can only have what they want |
| 21:12.15 | rwhitby | what's the thread? |
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| 21:13.22 | FreeTim | punzada: the doctor is big, over 200 MB it takes a while to download |
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| 21:13.46 | punzada | it cant download from the installer |
| 21:13.48 | punzada | it 404's |
| 21:13.55 | punzada | so i already ahve it downloaded seperately |
| 21:13.58 | rwhitby | palm changed the name |
| 21:14.05 | rwhitby | jason hasn't updated to match yet |
| 21:14.10 | punzada | oh |
| 21:14.17 | punzada | well i've renamed to |
| 21:14.24 | punzada | webosdoctor.jar as suggested in the thread |
| 21:14.26 | punzada | and it still finds it |
| 21:14.43 | punzada | and it still just deletes it, any idea where it installs to and what the file needs to be named under linux? |
| 21:15.07 | rwhitby | it doesn't say in the 100+page webos doctor thread? |
| 21:16.00 | punzada | not that i can find brb afk |
| 21:16.13 | rwhitby | (I don't know the answer, I run wosqi on a mac) |
| 21:18.03 | egaudet_work | commute home |
| 21:24.25 | stefan_schmidt | ajames: Nice that you are working on it. adding ogg vorbis support for the installed gstreamer was on top of my list once the Pre GSM is available |
| 21:25.16 | stefan_schmidt | ajames: I would wonder if the upper layers make problems here. They should rely on gstreamer infos only. |
| 21:26.08 | stefan_schmidt | ajames: please let me know if you have success. |
| 21:26.27 | stefan_schmidt | goes to bed now |
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| 22:04.23 | gkatsev | looks like im sticking to my mp3 player, podshifter.com does a good job but my mp3 does a better job, too bad, wouldve liked to only have one device |
| 22:07.47 | gkatsev | -> home |
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| 22:21.28 | AnOutsider | podshifter.. interesting |
| 22:21.38 | AnOutsider | in what cases is it needed to listen faster? |
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| 22:51.53 | rwhitby | anyone here who can check an ESN to see whether it is good or bad? |
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| 23:02.59 | gkatsev | AnOutsider: i like listening to podcasts and audiobook at 150% playback speed. i get through em faster |
| 23:06.01 | AnOutsider | ah makes sense |
| 23:06.23 | AnOutsider | so who wants boot screen ipks! woo! |
| 23:06.24 | AnOutsider | lol |
| 23:07.34 | tharris- | hehe i would |
| 23:08.48 | AnOutsider | heh |
| 23:08.57 | AnOutsider | lemme enable downloading on the site for the ipls |
| 23:09.00 | AnOutsider | ipks even, gimme a min |
| 23:13.29 | AnOutsider | http://www.prethemer.com/Pirate-boot-logo14.html try that on for size |
| 23:15.05 | gkatsev | hehe, evil panda |
| 23:15.52 | AnOutsider | they will replace your boot logo with no backup tho, so to get the original back: http://www.prethemer.com/Palm_Default-boot-logo3.html |
| 23:16.14 | AnOutsider | mucho gracias to rwhitby for help with the packaging. Maybe we can start getting these into preware |
| 23:19.38 | gkatsev | can you make a doctor who themed one? |
| 23:19.54 | gkatsev | food, brb |
| 23:20.45 | AnOutsider | I didnt make those, just the site haha. Asked a couple designers on precentral to use theirs in testing |
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| 23:25.58 | *** join/#webos-internals zsoc (n=nghr@unaffiliated/zsoc) |
| 23:26.42 | rwhitby | since good alpha testers are likely to be in this channel: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1885037#post1885037 |
| 23:27.05 | gkatsev | heh |
| 23:27.53 | zsoc | what makes a 'good' alpha tester? :P |
| 23:28.07 | rwhitby | someone who can give intelligent bug reports |
| 23:28.29 | zsoc | I see. I've already installed probably 30 packages from opt-ware, but with no "extensive" testing or bug reporting. |
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| 23:33.10 | rwhitby | JackieRipper: ping |
| 23:35.12 | gkatsev | gdial pro graduated to app catalog? cool |
| 23:40.20 | freakout | rwhitby: I'd like to but doubt I fit your definition of "good". |
| 23:40.44 | freakout | Also: I was a bit torqued when Palm gave PreCentral an exclusive on the Pixi. |
| 23:40.50 | rwhitby | zsoc: actually, you'll be a great alpha tester for testing the interoperability of the old bootstrap script and the new Optware Bootstrap package. |
| 23:40.52 | Jack87 | flpalm is not in here anymore but congradulations to him for making it to the app catalog |
| 23:41.01 | freakout | Now today I find that rather than respond to emails, they instead post on the Precentral forums. |
| 23:41.19 | freakout | WTF |
| 23:43.42 | AnOutsider | palm posted on the forums? |
| 23:43.49 | rwhitby | yep, chuq posted |
| 23:43.53 | freakout | Chuq did, anyway, responding to that nanplayer thing |
| 23:43.58 | freakout | I emailed him hours beforehand |
| 23:44.13 | rwhitby | http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/202285-palm-rejects-nanplayer-advanced-music-player-app-catalog-9.html#post1884445 |
| 23:44.24 | rwhitby | freakout: at least you now know where you stand ;-) |
| 23:44.40 | freakout | rwhitby: yes. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay in the back. |
| 23:44.46 | rwhitby | freakout: if it's any consolation, he doesn't respond to my emails either. |
| 23:44.46 | freakout | I'd like to know what we did wrong... |
| 23:45.01 | zsoc | freakout, be small :) |
| 23:45.10 | freakout | Bloke is meant to be a "Community Manager" |
| 23:45.15 | zsoc | rwhitby, er, define how i could be a great alpha tester for something i didn't understand before i wiki'd it? :P |
| 23:45.25 | freakout | Generally I would consider responding to the community part of the job description. |
| 23:45.31 | freakout | Maybe I'm just crazy? |
| 23:45.39 | AnOutsider | hmm reading the post... seems it makes more sense to make a wide annoucnement than answer each person individually |
| 23:45.51 | AnOutsider | tho i guess he couldve responded and said "here's the response *link*" |
| 23:45.54 | zsoc | It's ok, we love you tim |
| 23:46.38 | freakout | AnOutsider: not to sound self-important, but i'd hope I get a little more attention, being a writer for one of the oldest palm fansites on the 'net |
| 23:46.40 | rwhitby | AnOutsider: freakout is from palminfocenter - what he's saying is that Palm is playing favourites amongst tech blogging sites. |
| 23:47.15 | freakout | zsoc: :) |
| 23:48.11 | AnOutsider | ahh |
| 23:48.16 | AnOutsider | forgive me for not being in the loop ;) |
| 23:48.23 | freakout | Actually, even *some* attention would be nice nowadays. |
| 23:48.26 | freakout | Anyway I'll stop whinging |
| 23:48.32 | AnOutsider | haha its cool man |
| 23:48.36 | AnOutsider | in light of that knowledge i understand |
| 23:48.37 | freakout | but goddamn if it isn't annoying. |
| 23:48.45 | *** join/#webos-internals raeb (n=quassel@c-67-176-112-120.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 23:48.56 | freakout | AnOutsider: :) |
| 23:49.53 | Jack87 | sprint anouncement on the 5 o clock news |
| 23:49.57 | Jack87 | about moible to mobile |
| 23:50.08 | raeb | yay for mobile to mobile |
| 23:50.12 | raeb | how does it determine if its a mobile fone |
| 23:50.17 | raeb | like |
| 23:50.25 | raeb | my google vooice # can receive text msges |
| 23:50.30 | raeb | does that count as a mobile fone? |
| 23:51.08 | raeb | and if so, if i do all my calls thru google voice, will i have unlimited minutes no matta who im calling in the us |
| 23:51.52 | zsoc | raeb, probably. it's basically already like that as it is with tmobile fav 5 or even sprint offers an unadvertised 5 number deal |
| 23:52.05 | gkatsev | raeb: "AMA Applied when directly dialing/receiving standard voice calls between domestic wireless numbers as determined when the call is placed using independant third-part and Sprint databases" |
| 23:52.25 | raeb | ah ha! |
| 23:52.39 | gkatsev | zsoc: tmobile fav 5 is to any 5 numbers, so, its a bit different |
| 23:52.40 | rwhitby | freakout: we give you love on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Press_Room |
| 23:52.45 | gkatsev | raeb: from anymobile.sprint.com |
| 23:53.43 | gkatsev | careful, its a flash site... unfortunately... |
| 23:55.09 | freakout | rwhitby: heh. feelin' the love. Palm just boggle me though. |
| 23:55.48 | rwhitby | egaudet: the guys from PreLoad are going to check out the virtual keyboard state of the art patch handling code in the postinst and prerm git files. |
| 23:56.21 | egaudet | I'm going to be reverting the current ones |
| 23:57.48 | egaudet | The ones in the virtual-keyboard.git have that fancy md5sum stuff so they should work well with not touching any file that it isn't sure about during install and uninstall, but I don't like that because then it basically shuts the user out of those files |
