| 00:00.27 | rwhitby | I reckon I should be able to stat the file, then allocate the string to the right size, then read the file into it. |
| 00:00.58 | rwhitby | the problem is the file is read line by line. |
| 00:01.31 | rwhitby | http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=services/ipkgservice.git;a=blob;f=org/webosinternals/ipkgservice/IPKGService.java |
| 00:01.52 | rwhitby | lines 109 to 129 |
| 00:02.04 | rwhitby | and 131 to 156 |
| 00:02.38 | rwhitby | I need help from a Java guru on how to reduce the memory usage of those two functions. |
| 00:09.51 | raeb | how big, generally, are the files you are reading |
| 00:11.25 | raeb | im assuming they are plain text files, not too big |
| 00:12.55 | raeb | if so, get file size, and load the entire file into string, and then do search n replace for line delim maybe |
| 00:13.11 | raeb | though stringbuilder is said to be memory concious |
| 00:13.15 | raeb | coded so, anyway |
| 00:13.22 | raeb | extends string buffer instead of allocating a new one |
| 00:13.23 | raeb | etc |
| 00:13.46 | raeb | but if you know the size of the data your'e loading, why not allocate all at once |
| 00:14.07 | rwhitby | raeb: largest is 382K |
| 00:14.39 | rwhitby | raeb: I'm a Java newbie, so a patch would be very welcome from a Java guru |
| 00:14.42 | *** join/#webos-internals medicnancy (n=IceChat7@cpe-24-193-142-41.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:15.31 | rwhitby | and we can tell how big it is (I assume) by stat'ing the file (but I have not done that in Java before - I can do it easily in C, Perl, Python, ... ;-) |
| 00:16.13 | medicnancy | anyone on the channel know much about the depot functions? |
| 00:16.54 | oil | knows that it sucks |
| 00:17.31 | medicnancy | every app I've looked at, including the news app in the book uses methods that are not documente |
| 00:18.21 | Eguy | medicnancy: welcome to palm's documentation |
| 00:18.26 | Eguy | nothing is in the documents |
| 00:18.28 | medicnancy | I'm just about ready to use the HTML 5 stuff. seems like more work then I want to do |
| 00:19.00 | oil | depot != html5 |
| 00:19.42 | medicnancy | I know |
| 00:19.48 | raeb | File f=new File(file); FileReader fr=new FileReader(f); char[] c = new char[(int)f.length()]; fr.read(c,0,(int)f.length()); |
| 00:20.10 | raeb | c.toString() = your file, with line breaks still innit |
| 00:21.18 | raeb | do a replace on it for your delim |
| 00:21.22 | raeb | either regexp |
| 00:21.24 | raeb | or whatever |
| 00:21.57 | rwhitby | raeb: oh, in readList I need to count the Packages: lines |
| 00:21.57 | *** join/#webos-internals PreHero (n=chatzill@ip68-97-117-139.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 00:22.17 | rwhitby | that will actually be the big one, the non-list files are small |
| 00:22.47 | raeb | return new String(c).replace('\n', (char)delim); |
| 00:23.05 | oil | rwhitby: i dont think im actually using that count you send |
| 00:23.09 | raeb | unless delim is more than 1 char |
| 00:23.54 | rwhitby | raeb: actually, in this case the delim will be \n for the lists files, so we can leave as-is |
| 00:24.03 | raeb | sweet, return new String(c); |
| 00:24.44 | rwhitby | ok, so that allocates twice the size of the file temporarily, and then char[] c goes out of scope and gets collected some time later. |
| 00:25.02 | rwhitby | any way to do it with only allocating the size of the file max? |
| 00:25.27 | raeb | new char[...] allocates memory for the file, fr.read shoudl read it directly into that memory |
| 00:25.46 | rwhitby | right, but you do another new in the return |
| 00:25.53 | raeb | return new String(C) may reallocate, so instead use return (string) c; |
| 00:26.15 | raeb | yeah, cast to string should be ok, i'd think |
| 00:26.19 | raeb | i'm not a java guru hehe |
| 00:26.43 | rwhitby | I also wonder whether it will be better for the service to allocate on each call, or just keep a single global allocation of the largest file and reuse that for each call to readList |
| 00:26.45 | oil | wonders if the service should simply be rewritten in c now that there is headers |
| 00:27.48 | rwhitby | oil: I haven't seen a working example of an application using a C service with subscriptions yet. |
| 00:28.04 | rwhitby | but I'm sure it's not far off. |
| 00:28.14 | raeb | yeah, maybe... if you release your memory pointers java mem manager shoujdl clean it up |
| 00:28.15 | oil | well i could whip up an app for puffs battery service real fast |
| 00:28.19 | oil | if you just need to see it |
| 00:28.33 | raeb | but to avoid garbage collection, you can allocate your list buffer at a higher scope and reuse it |
| 00:29.18 | *** join/#webos-internals joesmith (n=joesmith@ip68-0-127-22.tu.ok.cox.net) |
| 00:29.48 | joesmith | hey yall |
| 00:30.43 | zsoc | peers at joesmith |
| 00:30.45 | oil | hey |
| 00:31.33 | joesmith | what is the name of the development chat room, I forgot :D |
| 00:32.14 | rwhitby | joesmith: this one, and #webos |
| 00:32.27 | joesmith | ohh its just webos |
| 00:32.36 | joesmith | I feel silly |
| 00:32.45 | oil | you should |
| 00:32.50 | oil | xD |
| 00:33.16 | joesmith | hmm my question might be ok in here, where are app cookies stored? |
| 00:33.23 | zsoc | definitely, very silly |
| 00:33.31 | joesmith | ;( |
| 00:33.44 | oil | on the pre |
| 00:33.46 | zsoc | more sill |
| 00:33.48 | zsoc | y |
| 00:33.52 | joesmith | lol |
| 00:34.05 | oil | in a folder |
| 00:34.18 | joesmith | do you know what folder? |
| 00:34.25 | oil | its probably named cookies |
| 00:34.31 | oil | but no, i dont know |
| 00:34.44 | zsoc | i'd imagine the one you store them in |
| 00:35.29 | joesmith | right..... well I was under the impression the app cookies were all in a central location |
| 00:36.07 | *** join/#webos-internals gregoiregentil (n=gregoire@adsl-71-135-123-10.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 00:36.26 | zsoc | find cookies doesn't get me anywhere, but i'm not terribly familiar with the find command |
| 00:38.16 | *** join/#webos-internals nebula1 (n=nebula@c-76-119-208-54.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:38.30 | zsoc | heh, i found his answer, good thing he's patient. |
| 00:46.30 | rwhitby | oil: I thought of another alternative: You could subscribe to rawlist, and get back an initial package with total file size, then individual messages of about 1K or so each (containing up to that size of complete Package entries), and then a final flag in the last packet. Then you could do the progress bar according to the size of data received, and I can only need to allocate 1K at a time. |
| 00:46.51 | rwhitby | s/initial package/initia packet/ |
| 00:47.24 | rwhitby | save sending 385K across dbus in one hit ... |
| 00:47.35 | oil | we think thats the problem? |
| 00:49.45 | *** join/#webos-internals edektor (n=edektor@173-129-59-244.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 00:51.28 | zsoc | the problem, it's sending 385k across dbus in one hit. |
| 00:51.58 | *** join/#webos-internals PreGame (n=PreGame@unaffiliated/pregame) |
| 00:51.58 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v PreGame] by ChanServ |
| 00:53.47 | gregoiregentil | Hello, I'm Gregoire Gentil, the founder of Always Innnovating, the guy behind the Touch Book: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com. This device run an OMAP3530, a touchscreen, an accelerometer, a keyboard, very similar to the Pre. I would like to try to run webOS on it. I have extracted a July-2009 webOS rootfs to the SD second partition and used our kernel http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Kernel. The s |
| 00:53.49 | *** join/#webos-internals raeb_ (n=quassel@c-67-176-112-120.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 00:53.56 | *** part/#webos-internals nebula1 (n=nebula@c-76-119-208-54.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:54.25 | oil | rwhitby: if we think thats the problem, make the change to the service, and ill change the app |
| 00:54.29 | oil | we can see if it fixes anything |
| 00:54.45 | *** join/#webos-internals michael_ (n=chatzill@cpe-65-27-137-22.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 00:55.42 | msbullock | hello all |
| 00:55.49 | zsoc | gregoiregentil, are you a telemarketer? |
| 00:56.21 | gregoiregentil | zsoc: No! |
| 00:58.03 | zsoc | gregoiregentil, oh.. ok. that message seemed particularly scripted is all |
| 00:58.13 | gregoiregentil | zsoc: Not sure to understand your question. The Touch Book is a cool device and a serious effort based on OMAP3530 (Beagleboard-like). We have optimized our own OS (starting from OE/Angstrom) and we are now investigating some other OS including Android and WebOS |
| 00:58.53 | gregoiregentil | I'm not spaming here... My objective is to run WebOS on a device which is not a Palm Pre. A cool challenge... |
| 00:59.16 | *** join/#webos-internals Rob____ (n=chatzill@c-76-115-227-233.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 00:59.25 | zsoc | I agree, that is a cool challenge indeed. |
| 01:00.09 | gregoiregentil | the funny part is that our device + our kernel + the WebOS rootfs works! I mean, I get something like shown here: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/download/webos.jpg |
| 01:00.21 | PreHero | I love webos, i think it would be a pretty good system for netbook type devices. what parts of it are copyrighted? |
| 01:00.37 | gregoiregentil | PreHero: you mean the Touch Book? |
| 01:00.41 | gregoiregentil | we are quite open source |
| 01:00.46 | oil | webos isnt |
| 01:00.55 | gregoiregentil | Go to our wiki, you will see that we are publishing as much as we can |
| 01:01.08 | PreHero | I meant webos |
| 01:01.19 | PreHero | I think its great that your product is so open! |
| 01:01.22 | gregoiregentil | I don't intend to do anything commercial with WebOS. Right now, I'm just taking a look and want to do a proof of concept. Nothing more |
| 01:01.40 | msbullock | Kind of an odd ball question, but I was talking today to someone that said them and their son and his friend (both with developer Android handsets) set up an SSL like Certificate encrypting their SMS messaging to one another on their Android phones. I've tried searching the web for information on this but came up blank. 1.) Could this be possible? 2.) If yes, would it be possible to do on... |
| 01:01.42 | msbullock | ...the Pre with it's Certificate management? |
| 01:02.25 | oil | msbullock: maybe? |
| 01:02.45 | zsoc | er. doesn't pidgin support some type of encryption? |
| 01:03.34 | gregoiregentil | So, if anybody has any clue about the video on the Palm Pre / WebOS, I'm interested to discuss. We are using DSS2 on our system and as I see something on my screen, I guess that WebOS is using something similar. |
| 01:03.44 | PreHero | gregoiregentil, how does your chip compare to the ones in the pre? are they able to support the openGL standards? |
| 01:03.53 | gregoiregentil | Exactly, the same... |
| 01:04.02 | gregoiregentil | We have some 3D OpenGL games too |
| 01:04.17 | gregoiregentil | we have also the same DSP video chip like on the Pre |
| 01:04.32 | gregoiregentil | Hardware, it's very close. |
| 01:04.53 | *** join/#webos-internals helofrom_ (n=helofrom@CPE0018f85a0c72-CM00407b8799dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:05.15 | PreHero | hmm, the idea is that if its able to run on the one system, it should be able to port with a little elbow greasy, in theory |
| 01:06.36 | helofrom_ | The virtual keyboard doesn't display the key's actual size the all get sized the same causing big layout problems |
| 01:07.34 | zsoc | Unfortunately webOS is not opensource, and therefore i imagine would be very difficult to port. |
| 01:09.12 | *** join/#webos-internals PreGame (n=PreGame@unaffiliated/pregame) |
| 01:09.12 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v PreGame] by ChanServ |
| 01:09.26 | gregoiregentil | I'm not trying to port anything. More to glue different pieces for a proof of concept |
| 01:09.29 | rwhitby | oil: let's see whether splitting into chunks slows anything down |
| 01:09.37 | Decimation_ | do i hear talk of webOS on a PC? |
| 01:09.46 | rwhitby | oil: we can always adjust the chunk size to optimise speed vs space |
| 01:09.49 | zsoc | Decimation_, adults are talking now, shush |
| 01:10.00 | Decimation_ | zsoc: lmao, cut it out. |
| 01:10.05 | Eguy | ouch |
| 01:10.05 | gregoiregentil | Decimation_: Correct. |
| 01:10.14 | Eguy | that was pretty harsh zsoc |
| 01:10.22 | Eguy | not even I would of said such a thing |
| 01:10.57 | rwhitby | gregoiregentil: you know that you can't redistribute webOS, right? |
| 01:11.17 | rwhitby | it's proprietary Palm code, not open source. |
| 01:11.45 | zsoc | Is that the universal measurment of harshness? Would Eguy say it? -> Not so harsh. Would Eguy not even say it? -> Harsh |
| 01:11.49 | gregoiregentil | rwhitby: yes. it's what I wrote above in this chat room. No commercial effort here. |
| 01:12.04 | Eguy | yes zsoc |
| 01:12.20 | gregoiregentil | rwhitby: I'm just trying for fun to run this cool WebOS on a different hardware. Proof of concept and learning experience. Nothing more. |
| 01:12.34 | rwhitby | gregoiregentil: no probs, just making sure :-) |
| 01:13.06 | gregoiregentil | rwhitby: it's a good question and it's now clear for the records in case a Palm employee reads that... |
| 01:13.19 | oil | im not even sure how webos would feel on a netbookk/tablet |
| 01:13.36 | rwhitby | gregoiregentil: there seem to be lots of people (not you) who seem to think that webOS is open source, and the one thing that Palm has specifically come into this channel to warn us about is redistributing copyright files. |
| 01:13.42 | Eguy | please state your intensions for the record Mr. gregoiregentil :P |
| 01:13.53 | Decimation_ | zsoc: cut the age jokes please ;) |
| 01:13.55 | Eguy | oil: I would reckon a bit small |
| 01:13.59 | zsoc | it might even be more interesting to rebuild something from the ground up, touch screen linux overlay wise |
| 01:14.08 | oil | i mean, cards are nice and all on a 3 inch screen |
| 01:14.22 | oil | but wouldn't i want to be able to have more the one up for interaction on a larger screen? |
| 01:14.31 | oil | like a browser window AND email |
| 01:14.38 | oil | instead of having to constantly switch back and forth? |
| 01:14.46 | oil | seems like you would just use a full os on such a device |
| 01:14.56 | Rob____ | foleo redux |
| 01:15.33 | oil | rwhitby: feel free to make the change, and ill do hte mojo |
| 01:16.17 | gregoiregentil | Well, that's an interesting discussion, and I'm sure that the Palm folks have made a lot of thinking about this. I was hoping to have more technical information and ideas to move in my funny/non-commercial/proof-of-concept experience. |
| 01:16.50 | *** join/#webos-internals helofromseattle (n=helofrom@CPE0018f85a0c72-CM00407b8799dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:18.07 | *** join/#webos-internals daybreak1199 (n=glowstic@99.171.191.144) |
| 01:19.29 | rwhitby | gregoiregentil: sure, this is a good place to have that discussion on that basis. |
| 01:19.49 | rwhitby | oil: ok, but not today, maybe in 9 or 10 hours time. |
| 01:20.02 | gregoiregentil | rwhitby: thanks. |
| 01:20.09 | oil | well thats only 2am my time xD |
| 01:22.15 | zsoc | and 7 over here lol. |
| 01:23.22 | helofromseattle | The virtual keyboard on my pre doesn't display the keys properly |
| 01:23.29 | helofromseattle | Help please |
| 01:23.55 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: re: ipkgservice... it reallly annoying me that everytime it installs it changes the fs back to ro... i think it should store the state before an install/remove and then restore the state afterwards |
| 01:23.57 | oil | doesnt know anything about the keyboard |
| 01:24.31 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: sure |
| 01:25.03 | PuffTheMagic | cool, thanks |
| 01:26.06 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: feel free to make the change if you get to it before me - I won't be touching it for about 5 hours, then I'll be working on this memory problem. |
| 01:26.29 | helofromseattle | Can anyone help me with my keyboard prob |
| 01:26.50 | PuffTheMagic | oh im in no rush... i just did a huge overhaul to my battery service to support monitoring stuff besides the battery |
| 01:27.18 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: cool. no worries. |
| 01:27.21 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: did you have any interest in doing ipkgservice over in C? |
| 01:27.53 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: yeah, I think it should be that eventually. |
| 01:28.52 | PuffTheMagic | well now that i know enough about to do subscriptions in C it shouldnt be too hard to make it in C |
| 01:29.10 | PuffTheMagic | didnt you say there is libipkg |
| 01:29.42 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: I'll be watching to see how well the battery app and service work together, including how easy your installation postinst and prerm are. |
| 01:30.29 | rwhitby | yes, there is a libipkg I think. |
| 01:30.42 | rwhitby | bbiab |
| 01:31.26 | Decimation_ | is disappointed he can so quickly interprit what bbiab means... what has the internet done to me. |
| 01:31.46 | PuffTheMagic | lol |
| 01:33.17 | Eguy | lol |
| 01:38.29 | zsoc | remembers the day he figured out what bbiab meant |
| 01:39.39 | Decimation_ | sadly can't remember a time when he didn't :/ |
| 01:44.54 | PreHero | does anyone know offhand where to find copyrights for a particular game? |
| 01:45.52 | PreHero | the copany that created the game in question (Hexxagon) was Argo Games, who no longer exist |
| 01:49.14 | *** join/#webos-internals doodums (n=thadood@c-75-66-217-39.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 01:51.52 | Templarian | PreHero: wikipedia sometimes says. |
| 01:55.56 | Rick_home | PreHero: frequently the idea of "created" is fuzzy consider "reversi" vs "othello" |
| 01:56.14 | Rick_home | the latter term is a trade mark, but the GAME, invented in 1890, went out of patent a long time ago. |
| 01:57.02 | Rick_home | Also, recognize that there is a difference between COPYRIGHT and PATENT. you can not copyright a games game-play-mechanism. You can COPYRIGHT the board, but the game itself, the process of moving pieces or whatever, can only be patented, and that only lasts 17 years. |
| 02:00.40 | Templarian | People tend to get in trouble when they say "The webOS version of ____" |
| 02:01.10 | Decimation | Templarian: palm says thats what you are supposed to do.. |
| 02:02.17 | rwhitby | ok, who's ready to do a sanity test on a new ipkgservice ? |
| 02:02.41 | Rick_home | ::Rick Hides his head under the desk and screams "NO NO NOT TONIGHT NO!!!" :-) |
| 02:03.31 | rwhitby | http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.8.7_all.ipk |
| 02:03.49 | rwhitby | I need someone to tell me it works fine with current Preware version before I release it publicly. |
| 02:05.35 | Decimation | rwhitby: whats it do? lol |
| 02:05.59 | rwhitby | this one does the reduction in memory reallocations as per the discussion with raeb earlier. |
| 02:06.37 | Decimation | im installing it along with the current preware on a stock phone. |
| 02:06.42 | rwhitby | raeb_: I had to do the new String at the end - for some reason fr.read returned 40 less bytes than what f.length said. |
| 02:07.17 | Decimation | rwhitby: works fine.. |
| 02:08.31 | Templarian | Decimation: Were exactly do they say that? |
| 02:08.55 | PreHero | so if i want to recreate the experience of hexxagon on the pre, what are my options? |
| 02:09.21 | Decimation | Templarian: idk, some guy on precentral asked about copyright name issues |
| 02:09.25 | Templarian | PreHero: don't say hexxagon. Just rename it and make the game. |
| 02:09.34 | Decimation | and some posted with a link to some palm forum post or something |
| 02:09.38 | Decimation | and it said that. |
| 02:11.07 | PreHero | thanks...ive never written for webos, so i was going to try the instructions for porting over javascript games on the site |
| 02:12.41 | rwhitby | ipkgservice 0.8.7 is now in the public feeds. |
| 02:12.47 | *** join/#webos-internals ameng|home (n=fm@221.220.209.136) |
| 02:13.16 | Decimation | is there a webOS widget that allows a developer to make a list with checkboxes next to em? |
| 02:13.22 | Decimation | like, next to each entry in the list. |
| 02:19.31 | *** join/#webos-internals Max__ (n=Max@72.243.164.154) |
| 02:26.44 | destinal | Decimation: re: copyright, it honestly doesn't matter what palm says |
| 02:27.52 | destinal | Decimation: and as Rick_home mentioned, the only real issues with games if you're not copying code or images are only trademark (on the name) and patent (on the rules) |
| 02:28.13 | Rick_home | Decimation: yes, it's called a LIST |
| 02:28.19 | Rick_home | a list can have ANYTHING in it |
| 02:28.36 | *** join/#webos-internals theo (n=theo@cpe-65-189-49-223.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 02:28.54 | Decimation | Rick_home: i was saying something along the lines for an app that allows you to check a bunch of contacts, for mass text messaging |
| 02:29.08 | Decimation | or possibily a change to the contact selection scene in the messaging app |
| 02:29.19 | Decimation | would this have that use. |
| 02:31.34 | theo | whats going on tonight?? |
| 02:33.59 | rwhitby | theo: new version of ipkgservice which hopefully doesn't trigger oom's |
| 02:34.39 | theo | awesome, havent gone throught the logs yet, have you started alpha testing yet |
| 02:34.59 | theo | now going through the logs to see what he missed |
| 02:35.40 | rwhitby | theo: it's in the public feeds. |
| 02:37.10 | theo | rwhitby: 0.8.7 correct?? |
| 02:37.14 | rwhitby | yep |
| 02:37.33 | theo | checking it out |
| 02:37.43 | rwhitby | http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1889721 |
| 02:39.34 | theo | never had that problem, connections never reset, however every so often i would need to restart luna to restart the package manager |
| 02:42.47 | theo | seems like everything works well |
| 02:43.10 | oil | hopes so |
| 02:43.22 | oil | gets back to work on using flags |
| 02:44.24 | rwhitby | oil: yeah, I'm hoping this is a quick fix for those problems, and we can do the longer term improvement later. |
| 02:44.31 | rwhitby | bbl |
| 02:44.34 | Templarian | (just installed it and everything appears to work good, but never had those problems described). |
| 02:46.10 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v bpadalino] by ChanServ |
| 02:51.25 | theo | crossing his fingers hoping to see ohio state win tonight |
| 02:58.06 | theo | wonders if oil ever won that checkers game |
| 03:02.18 | *** join/#webos-internals kesne (n=Kesne@pool-173-50-235-167.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:02.54 | kesne | ugh |
| 03:03.09 | kesne | I'm the only one not drunk at a party |
| 03:03.11 | ashi__colo | hmm since the update, i'm having trouble getting preware to load. |
| 03:03.27 | theo | thats never fun |
| 03:03.31 | kesne | Yeah |
| 03:03.33 | kesne | Well |
| 03:03.42 | kesne | It'd be bad if I was drunk |
| 03:04.00 | theo | only if you remember |
| 03:04.06 | kesne | Nah |
| 03:04.08 | kesne | I'm 15 |
| 03:04.17 | theo | yes then that would be bad...lol |
| 03:04.24 | kesne | haha |
| 03:05.00 | oil | get off the computer and go get drunk |
| 03:05.01 | ashi__colo | yay, loaded on 5th try. |
| 03:05.10 | *** join/#webos-internals heisenman (n=heisenma@adsl-76-254-33-188.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:06.04 | oil | gets another jack and coke, brb |
| 03:06.14 | theo | lol |
| 03:06.40 | *** join/#webos-internals MrNfector (n=mrnfecto@ip68-105-113-134.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 03:06.55 | Rick_home | I hate being at a party full of drunks |
| 03:06.58 | Rick_home | :-( |
| 03:07.00 | Rick_home | sorry for you |
| 03:08.17 | kesne | Haha |
| 03:08.19 | kesne | It sucks |
| 03:08.32 | kesne | Alright |
| 03:08.34 | kesne | got to go |
| 03:10.38 | PreHero | got the new package, everything seems to be running better for me...ive had the problems with loading. ive started up 10 times so far, it works everytime vs about a 60-40 split before |
| 03:10.57 | PreHero | sorry, talking about the preware package manager |
| 03:11.24 | bpadalino | every other time i run preware, the ipkg manager crashes my jvm |
| 03:11.28 | bpadalino | it's kind of interesting |
| 03:11.34 | bpadalino | always an out of heap memory crash |
| 03:11.37 | PreHero | the new or old? |
| 03:11.50 | bpadalino | not sure .. 0.8.5 ? |
| 03:11.53 | bpadalino | so probably old |
| 03:12.03 | MrNfector | webOS Quick Install is refusing to detect my Pre, so I haven't tried the new package manager yet. |
| 03:12.04 | PreHero | yep, go get the 8.7 |
| 03:12.35 | PreHero | lol, that sucks...make sure you are in dev mode |
| 03:13.18 | MrNfector | Dur, that would likely be the issue, lol. You have to be in dev mode for quick install to work? |
| 03:13.26 | PreHero | yep |
| 03:13.53 | MrNfector | I hate having to reboot it so often, but ok. |
| 03:14.48 | PreHero | yeah, thats my only complaint lol...i use preware as often as possible for that very reason, that and the fact that its so easy to use! |
| 03:15.00 | MrNfector | nods |
| 03:24.49 | Decimation | MrNfector: you know, there is no need to take your phone out of dev mode ever.. lol |
| 03:25.34 | MrNfector | Hrm, I thought it presented a security issue? |
| 03:26.01 | PreHero | thats also what i hear...dev mode opens up all the ports on your phone correct? |
| 03:26.19 | Decimation | lol, there is no "real" security issue. |
| 03:26.25 | MrNfector | That was my understanding. |
| 03:26.48 | Decimation | okay, ports are open. |
| 03:26.54 | Decimation | explain to me what is gonna happen. |
| 03:27.07 | oil | idk check out that thread on pc |
| 03:27.19 | oil | hes super paranoid someone is gonna hack his pre |
| 03:27.38 | *** join/#webos-internals PreGame (n=PreGame@unaffiliated/pregame) |
| 03:27.38 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v PreGame] by ChanServ |
| 03:28.25 | MrNfector | Well, it is basically just a lowend linux computer you can stick in your pocket. It could happen. =p |
| 03:28.50 | *** join/#webos-internals PreHero_ (n=chatzill@ip68-97-117-139.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 03:30.31 | MrNfector | I'm not that concerned, but there have been vulns regarding phones before, so it's not something I'd just blow off. |
| 03:31.32 | oil | lol |
| 03:33.13 | PreHero_ | oil, you sayin that you leave your phone in dev mode? |
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| 03:33.29 | oil | yeah |
| 03:33.30 | theo | mines always in dev mode also |
| 03:33.37 | oil | rarely a day goes by its not hooked up to my computer being used in said devmode |
| 03:33.38 | oil | you know |
| 03:33.40 | oil | to develops |
| 03:33.46 | oil | develope |
| 03:33.49 | oil | shit |
| 03:34.10 | oil | takes another drink of jack and coke |
| 03:34.11 | PreHero_ | hmm, swear i heard something about otherwise...maybe from the tooting instructions is what im thinking |
| 03:34.16 | theo | just waiting for someone to figure out his evdo ip so they can send him a virus |
| 03:34.36 | theo | lol.... tooting |
| 03:34.47 | PreHero_ | haha |
| 03:35.11 | PreHero_ | looks like your not the only one doing bicep curls |
| 03:35.20 | theo | believes the word rooting should be replaced with tooting |
| 03:35.49 | PreHero_ | just kidding, ive just been up for too many hours to not check what im typing lol |
| 03:44.28 | *** join/#webos-internals PreGame (n=PreGame@unaffiliated/pregame) |
| 03:44.28 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v PreGame] by ChanServ |
| 03:52.39 | *** join/#webos-internals PreHero (n=chatzill@68.97.117.139) |
| 03:53.30 | *** join/#webos-internals kesne_ (n=Kesne@pool-173-50-235-167.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:54.21 | geist | sends a virus to everyones evdo ip address |
| 03:54.39 | geist | downloads a script to your /tmp |
| 03:55.20 | oil | puts some funny shit in there for geist to see |
| 03:55.28 | PreHero | haha |
| 03:55.30 | theo | lol |
| 03:57.11 | oil | like that "between lines 26 and 27" image |
| 03:59.25 | bpadalino | geist, hacker |
| 03:59.48 | geist | aww yeah |
| 04:00.04 | bpadalino | how goes the weekend, geist ? |
| 04:00.13 | geist | not too bad |
| 04:00.22 | geist | just wqandered up to the city to poke around |
| 04:00.30 | geist | sitting at a coffee shop now, Ritual |
| 04:00.47 | Templarian | geist: what city? |
| 04:00.49 | bpadalino | ooh, did you check out the clover coffee machine there ? |
| 04:00.54 | geist | yeah, i |
| 04:01.02 | geist | yeah im sitting about 3 feet from it now |
| 04:01.06 | geist | just inside the door to the left |
| 04:01.26 | geist | just reached over and touched it |
| 04:01.31 | bpadalino | ooohh, fancy |
| 04:01.47 | geist | though ive visited my buddies at android, and they have one too at google |
| 04:02.00 | geist | thing with the clovers is its all in the settings |
| 04:02.07 | geist | you can still make bad cups of coffee with it |
| 04:02.19 | bpadalino | yeah - i had thought about making one myself.. it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult |
| 04:03.47 | bpadalino | how do your buddies like it over at google ? |
| 04:03.57 | geist | i think theyre just as stressed as we are |
| 04:04.10 | geist | no doubt its a nice place to work, amenity wise |
| 04:04.20 | geist | but ive seen the android office many times, its a packed mess |
| 04:04.26 | geist | they have no space |
| 04:04.54 | geist | but i have a party to go to tomorrow with the dalvik guy. hes a buddy of mine from the danger days |
| 04:05.03 | geist | ill ask him hows it going nowadays |
| 04:05.13 | bpadalino | oh awesome - those presentations were very interesting .. |
| 04:05.28 | geist | yep. a lot of android is a continuation of danger really |
| 04:05.39 | geist | the bqasic strategy is pretty much the same, a lot of the same key players |
| 04:05.49 | bpadalino | cool ideas when it came to the dalvik stuff |
| 04:06.04 | geist | yep, it was a lot of stuff we came up with when at danger, but didnt get a chance to do |
| 04:06.14 | geist | so a lot of it didnt come out of a vacuum |
| 04:06.20 | geist | real hard experience led to it |
| 04:06.35 | bpadalino | i'm pretty happy google has the cash to do as much as it does |
| 04:06.45 | bpadalino | and let people do what they want as well |
| 04:08.34 | bpadalino | were you able to do the faster file transfers for novacom ? |
| 04:10.57 | geist | hmm? |
| 04:11.20 | geist | what do ou mean? |
| 04:11.42 | bpadalino | i thought you were going to try sending more windows and be less send wait for ack, send next packet, etc .. |
| 04:11.57 | geist | oh yeah |
| 04:12.08 | geist | well, for better or worse i dont really work on novacom anymore |
| 04:12.17 | geist | we actually just hired a guy a few weeks ago to deal wityh it full time |
| 04:12.22 | geist | so ive given him the brain dump |
| 04:12.42 | geist | theres at least one big rewrite that needs to happen on the device side to simplify it |
| 04:12.42 | bpadalino | wow, cool |
| 04:12.52 | geist | and theres a lot more emphasis that we need to make on the windows tools |
| 04:12.55 | geist | since it clearly stinks |
| 04:12.59 | bpadalino | indeed |
| 04:13.16 | geist | btw, i put the source to the novaterm for windows back up |
| 04:13.41 | bpadalino | cool - thanks |
| 04:13.51 | geist | so yeah, its a mixed bag. id like to have finished off a lot of novacom stuff, but realistically im more useful in other areas |
| 04:14.03 | bpadalino | so are you back to kernel work ? |
| 04:14.07 | geist | yeah |
| 04:14.17 | geist | im much more useful to the company taking things ferom zero to mostly working |
| 04:14.24 | geist | and then handing it off |
| 04:14.30 | geist | such as bootie, novacom, etc |
| 04:14.36 | bpadalino | so bringing up new boards, architectures, etc ? |
| 04:15.06 | geist | theoretically |
| 04:15.15 | bpadalino | nice |
| 04:15.21 | geist | well, its not a real secret that we have more stuff to do |
| 04:15.26 | bpadalino | absolutely |
| 04:15.36 | oil | lol |
| 04:15.38 | geist | clearly i cant tello you about future stuff, but we have more things coming, obviously |
| 04:16.13 | bpadalino | obviously .. as an employee, do you get a good clear direction from management ? |
| 04:16.22 | destinal | I don't think anyone believes that pre and pixi are the only devices webos will support (or even that the current architecture can't use serious innovations from time to time) |
| 04:16.22 | geist | yep |
| 04:16.26 | bpadalino | that's great |
| 04:16.35 | geist | yeah, cdm keeps me in the loop |
| 04:16.40 | bpadalino | very awesome |
| 04:16.56 | bpadalino | i hate being a cog in the system |
| 04:17.14 | geist | palm is still small enough to know whats going on mostly |
| 04:17.22 | bpadalino | how many meployees ? |
| 04:17.24 | bpadalino | employees rather |
| 04:17.35 | geist | 900 or so i think |
| 04:17.42 | bpadalino | that is pretty good |
| 04:17.48 | geist | but the kernel team at least has to know pretty much everything that happens |
| 04:17.55 | geist | we tend to be the first that get exposed to anything new |
| 04:17.56 | oil | lol |
| 04:17.58 | oil | yeah |
| 04:18.04 | bpadalino | indeed |
| 04:18.12 | oil | you would hope the kernel isn't the last thing on the list |
| 04:18.12 | oil | lol |
| 04:18.15 | geist | right |
| 04:19.21 | geist | i also tend to be the default guy to go visit the factory when in various stages of device building |
| 04:19.23 | bpadalino | is palm large enough to ask things of companies like TI or Samsung for their processors ... to add better support ? |
| 04:19.25 | geist | i went to china 3 or 4 times for pre |
| 04:19.38 | bpadalino | oh, i didn't realize you were into the manufacturing aspect too |
| 04:19.47 | bpadalino | do you have a group of guys who do the layout for you guys too ? |
| 04:19.58 | geist | sort of. being that i do bootie, or at leas tknow it better than anyoine else |
| 04:20.05 | geist | it has a mfg aspect, since its the first thign that runs |
| 04:20.25 | bpadalino | did you write the factory test as well? |
| 04:20.29 | geist | so when in the very initial stages of anything, it makes sense to have a bootloader/kernel guy/gal there to debug anything if it happens |
| 04:20.32 | geist | no, thankfully i didn |
| 04:20.34 | geist | didnt |
| 04:20.52 | geist | i did diagnostics in the past, and it sucked |
| 04:20.57 | bpadalino | heh |
| 04:21.02 | geist | but since it wrote the bootloader for iphone as well, i had a similar role there |
| 04:21.17 | bpadalino | went to china a few times for the iphone too ? |
| 04:21.23 | geist | i have the dubious honor of booting the very first iphone, hot off the assembly line |
| 04:21.33 | oil | nice |
| 04:21.37 | geist | we had to fix a couple of voltage regulators, but i booted the first proto |
| 04:21.46 | bpadalino | congrats |
| 04:21.53 | geist | yeah, went to china for the iphone |
| 04:21.57 | Templarian | Nice. |
| 04:22.07 | bpadalino | i never see any boards until they've been thoroughly smoke tested and JTAG'd |
| 04:22.08 | geist | its weird too, since apple and palm tend to stay at the same hotel |
| 04:22.19 | geist | you go downstairs for breakfast and hook up with your old apple buddies |
| 04:22.20 | PreHero | what is the reason for the difference in boot times for the pre vs the iphone? i understand the version differences and time spent on the process |
| 04:22.27 | Templarian | (my bosses son is the engineer for the Chumby device he's always over in china for that kind of stuff). |
| 04:22.34 | geist | 'hey, hwat are you doing here?' 'oh, just visiting.. hehe' |
| 04:23.30 | geist | PreHero: completely different universe |
| 04:23.34 | geist | apples and oranges |
| 04:23.39 | bpadalino | oh, before i forget, chrisa requests old omap boards of something that you're hoarding .. and requests an oscope too ;) |
| 04:23.51 | geist | but i know the bootloader on both runs in about the same amount of time |
| 04:24.09 | geist | they both take a half second or so to boot, and about a second to load the kernel, and hand off |
| 04:24.21 | geist | so its in the 1-2 second range from my point of view |
| 04:24.28 | bpadalino | yeah - you guys get into linux pretty quickly ... it's nice |
| 04:25.22 | geist | yep, most of the time spent is just phisically reading the couple MB off the flash |
| 04:25.30 | geist | which takes in the 500ms range |
| 04:26.27 | geist | could optimize it but itd involve running the sdio part in dma mode, whic would require a lot more code, whiich would make the bootloader too large (64k size limit) |
| 04:26.39 | geist | and then itd only get back a few hundred ms |
| 04:26.47 | geist | which isnt really worth it in the grand scheme of things |
| 04:26.51 | bpadalino | indeed |
| 04:27.36 | PreHero | thanks |
| 04:27.47 | geist | also, bootie runs the cpu at like 128mhz, to keep the power low |
| 04:27.53 | geist | which adds a few hundred ms too |
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| 04:28.37 | bpadalino | essentially no perceived change in the grand scheme of things |
| 04:28.46 | geist | right |
| 04:29.34 | bpadalino | especially when lunasysmgr takes quite a while to load up .. and java as well |
| 04:29.46 | geist | yep |
| 04:30.42 | DraX | mmmmm ritual coffee.. |
| 04:30.52 | bpadalino | are you active on the lkml or just take what you're given ? |
| 04:31.02 | lmorchard | I liked Blue Bottle better :) |
| 04:31.11 | DraX | i like blue bottle better as well |
| 04:31.16 | DraX | but ritual is still good. :) |
| 04:31.21 | lmorchard | but they're both pretty awesome |
| 04:31.22 | lmorchard | yesh |
| 04:31.35 | Templarian | I can't wait till they get to the point where they can just work on optimizations and start recoding some of that startup stuff. |
| 04:31.59 | geist | bpadalino: trying to be more proactive about giving back |
| 04:32.06 | geist | but to be honest our kernel for pre is a mess |
| 04:32.12 | PreHero | is that what the bulk of the time is during a reset? the lunasysmgr and java? the time waiting during the boot images going back and forth? |
| 04:32.18 | geist | its based on essentially a rogue fork of omap code from ti |
| 04:32.24 | geist | which isnt really anything like the mainline |
| 04:32.29 | geist | so theres little to give back |
| 04:32.40 | bpadalino | prehero, yes |
| 04:33.03 | geist | PreHero: yeah, from a cold boot, linux is running within about 5-6 seconds |
| 04:33.26 | PreHero | wow, i didnt realize that the linux startup was that quick |
| 04:33.28 | bpadalino | geist, so you're making it nice and pretty now ? |
| 04:33.38 | bpadalino | novacom is up pretty quick |
| 04:33.45 | bpadalino | i think the emulator takes longer to boot than the pre does |
| 04:33.54 | geist | yeah, wouldnt be surprised |
| 04:34.40 | geist | i think itll get faster as we released updates |
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| 04:34.55 | bpadalino | geist, how is TI's documentation for the omap3? our experience with the omap2 is terrible ... absolutely terrible |
| 04:34.56 | geist | i know folks have been looking at it |
| 04:35.02 | geist | bpadalino: MUCH better |
| 04:35.05 | Templarian | Theoretically the Pre doesn't need java right? I mean its core stuff could all be written in c++ right? |
| 04:35.21 | geist | ti is really trying to be the default hobbyist arm cpu |
| 04:35.24 | bpadalino | Templarian: true - but it's a lot of code |
| 04:35.30 | geist | they have as much as possible documented, etc |
| 04:35.31 | DraX | does th chip y'all are using have the arm java acceleration stuff? |
| 04:35.38 | geist | nah, no one does |
| 04:35.40 | bpadalino | geist, that sounds better .. |
| 04:35.54 | geist | not even sure that cortex-a8 supports it anymore |
| 04:35.58 | bpadalino | it doesn't |
| 04:35.59 | geist | arm has certainly deprecated it |
| 04:36.04 | DraX | ahh |
| 04:36.13 | Templarian | bpadalino: yea... not a theory that would ever be done. |
| 04:36.15 | geist | jazelle was a total bust as far as i can tell |
| 04:36.20 | bpadalino | yeah it was |
| 04:36.31 | DraX | didn't know |
| 04:36.41 | geist | trouble is you had to license a big pile of black box from arm to use it |
| 04:36.51 | geist | and then you had to run precisely java vm bytecodes |
| 04:37.10 | geist | we could never use it at danger because our jvm was custom and used a transcoded bytecode (precursor to dalvik) |
| 04:37.13 | bpadalino | it was just easier for them to say "get a good jvm" |
| 04:37.19 | bpadalino | ah cool |
| 04:37.25 | geist | and anyway, it could only really run simple opcodes |
| 04:37.36 | geist | anything remotely interesting, like a virtual call, required that you trap into your code anyway |
| 04:37.46 | geist | and really the bulk of work in any large java system is stuff like that |
| 04:38.09 | DraX | yeah |
| 04:38.41 | geist | okay, better get going |
| 04:38.53 | geist | need to go get in the car and head back to the south bay |
| 04:39.04 | bpadalino | later |
| 04:39.09 | geist | and need to walk halfway across the city to get back to my car |
| 04:39.17 | bpadalino | that sounds windy |
| 04:39.22 | geist | maybe ill see a movie at the metreon |
| 04:39.24 | geist | anyway, ta ta |
| 04:39.38 | DraX | geist: you could just grab bart.. |
| 04:41.58 | Rick_home | Leave bart alone, the poor boy has troubles enough coming from the family he does. |
| 04:42.34 | DraX | :) |
| 04:43.23 | daybreak1199 | sorry to interrupt...anyone here from San Diego? |
| 04:44.38 | PreHero | from midwest here |
| 04:46.05 | daybreak1199 | im in san diego now...born and raised in oklahoma though |
| 04:46.20 | PreHero | ha, marine? |
| 04:46.29 | daybreak1199 | lol yeah... |
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| 06:11.10 | daybreak1199 | a quick way to find out of dropbear ssh or open ssh is running using the novacom terminal? |
| 06:16.24 | daybreak1199 | dropbear ssh is in the root@castle:/opt/bin dir right? |
| 06:17.37 | daybreak1199 | am in the wrong channel? |
| 06:29.47 | geist | DraX: well, walked up and picked up the muni at the church station |
| 06:31.25 | DraX | that works |
| 06:33.55 | geist | he took the midnight train going anywhere |
| 06:53.21 | kesne | Checkers Contest |
| 06:53.22 | kesne | http://keen-studios.net/2009/09/25000-checkers-downloads/ |
| 06:55.08 | DraX | geist: we had an awesome transit meltdown friday. :D |
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| 07:03.00 | oil | "building the future"? |
| 07:03.16 | oil | keels over laughing |
| 07:03.27 | daybreak1199 | anyone available to help with openssh or dropbear ssh? |
| 07:03.51 | oil | knows nothing about it |
| 07:04.01 | kesne | I don't maintain the website |
| 07:04.04 | kesne | so don't ask me |
| 07:04.19 | oil | lol |
| 07:04.31 | oil | whats the something good? |
| 07:04.36 | oil | an ipk for the pro version? |
| 07:04.41 | kesne | And more |
| 07:04.48 | oil | like? |
| 07:04.54 | kesne | Well |
| 07:04.56 | kesne | Good stuff |
| 07:05.06 | rwhitby | daybreak1199: read the descriptions on those apps |
| 07:05.29 | rwhitby | bbl |
| 07:05.45 | daybreak1199 | thanks for the reply...i have just having issues...i'll go back and reread |
| 07:09.51 | daybreak1199 | could someone take a look at this game and see if it would be an easy port into an app http://vrdefendery3k.com/ |
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| 07:14.05 | kesne | daybreak1199, just a TD game |
| 07:14.26 | daybreak1199 | TD ? not sure what that stands for kesne |
| 07:14.37 | kesne | Tower Defence |
| 07:15.29 | daybreak1199 | lol yah..im kinda slow tonight.. |
| 07:16.24 | daybreak1199 | nite all |
| 07:21.20 | oil | looks at his towerdefense game code and sighs |
| 07:23.10 | kesne | oil: Just release it |
| 07:23.13 | kesne | who cares? |
| 07:23.18 | Eguy | oil: get to work |
| 07:23.24 | oil | lols @ how much that one looks like his |
| 07:23.59 | oil | except mine sucks cause its not really fun to play |
| 07:24.03 | oil | and im not an artist |
| 07:24.05 | kesne | oil your right |
| 07:25.03 | kesne | Haha |
| 07:25.03 | oil | and mine only has 2 tower types right now |
| 07:25.10 | kesne | Latest checkers comment: penisland.com |
| 07:25.18 | oil | haha |
| 07:25.27 | kesne | xD |
| 07:25.35 | kesne | God, I love this phone |
| 07:25.46 | Eguy | lol |
| 07:25.59 | Eguy | my battery life is so freaking awful |
| 07:26.01 | oil | why, cause you can check out penisland.com right from it? |
| 07:26.13 | kesne | oil: :P |
| 07:26.13 | Eguy | I think my seidio battery is really only 1150mah |
| 07:26.23 | Eguy | I need to call them |
| 07:27.55 | kesne | I just got really pissed at this guy who sent me a support email |
| 07:28.01 | kesne | I bashed him a little |
| 07:28.12 | kesne | Maybe I shouldn't have |
| 07:28.28 | kesne | Oh well |
| 07:28.40 | kesne | "app isn't ready, needs to be polished" |
| 07:28.46 | kesne | And his issues were all just prefrence |
| 07:28.50 | kesne | ugh |
| 07:28.59 | kesne | I know checkers isnt that good |
| 07:29.05 | kesne | I know blocked is 100x better |
| 07:29.09 | kesne | but lets get over that |
| 07:29.12 | oil | lol |
| 07:29.15 | kesne | it's still annoying |
| 07:29.18 | oil | checkers isnt bad |
| 07:29.23 | kesne | no, the AI is |
| 07:29.26 | oil | well |
| 07:29.28 | oil | yeah, it is |
| 07:29.32 | kesne | Playing two player is fine. |
| 07:29.33 | oil | but blocked doesnt have any ai |
| 07:29.39 | kesne | Exactly |
| 07:29.50 | kesne | I'm so happy that I'm rewriting it |
| 07:29.55 | oil | dotgame has ai |
| 07:29.56 | punzada | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:29.58 | oil | its a little slow |
| 07:29.59 | oil | but i think its ok |
| 07:30.01 | punzada | you two are STILL talking about this? |
| 07:30.03 | punzada | >> |
| 07:30.08 | oil | it just started back up |
| 07:30.25 | kesne | This time it's totally in agreement |
| 07:30.29 | kesne | Checkers AI sucks |
| 07:30.35 | kesne | I'm completely rewriting it |
| 07:30.39 | kesne | Making it SMART |
| 07:30.43 | kesne | BUT settable |
| 07:30.46 | kesne | :) |
| 07:30.48 | oil | lol |
| 07:30.49 | punzada | ake sure you have an easter egg where it randomly cheats |
| 07:30.56 | punzada | or you see a hand come over and tip the board |
| 07:31.05 | oil | make sure it doesn't do the same back and forth infinity times |
| 07:31.10 | kesne | I wont |
| 07:31.17 | kesne | I've already made sure |
| 07:31.24 | kesne | Added a variable called annoy |
| 07:31.28 | kesne | User setable |
| 07:31.32 | oil | lol |
| 07:31.45 | kesne | if you set annoy to 2, it can only go back and forth 2 times |
| 07:32.35 | kesne | :D |
| 07:32.58 | oil | sets it to -1 |
| 07:33.01 | kesne | Yeah |
| 07:33.08 | kesne | Freak it out |
| 07:33.56 | kesne | AND the new AI will be on Checkers Pro AND checkers ;) |
| 07:34.09 | kesne | I'm not forcing users to play bad versions of games |
| 07:34.15 | oil | lololol |
| 07:34.57 | kesne | Anyway, I'm off |
| 07:34.59 | kesne | later |
| 07:52.35 | *** join/#webos-internals christefano (n=christef@c-76-23-159-24.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 08:10.32 | rwhitby | 17705 downloads of Preware since 03 Sep. |
| 08:10.40 | oil | lol |
| 08:10.56 | Eguy | staggering |
| 08:10.58 | rwhitby | 14772 downloads of ipkgservice |
| 08:11.26 | rwhitby | so 3 people with problems in the PreCentral forums is not that significant ;-) |
| 08:11.51 | rwhitby | of course that will include web crawlers ;-) |
| 08:12.55 | oil | lol |
| 08:13.03 | oil | what are they doing crawling .ipk files? |
| 08:14.34 | rwhitby | 8703 downloads from WebOS Quick Install |
| 08:14.56 | rwhitby | 5733 downloads from Preware |
| 08:16.18 | rwhitby | Yahoo and Google are both spidering the ipkgs |
| 08:16.21 | oil | lol |
| 08:17.06 | rwhitby | Google only spidered 12 times |
| 08:17.24 | rwhitby | Yahoo 31 times |
| 08:18.18 | rwhitby | thinks kesne's 25000 is chicken feed ... |
| 08:18.29 | oil | lol |
| 08:18.34 | oil | since what, thursday? |
| 08:18.43 | Eguy | preware in the app catalog? |
| 08:18.46 | Eguy | :P |
| 08:18.50 | oil | submits it |
| 08:18.58 | oil | then bitches about it not being accepted |
| 08:19.09 | oil | takes his ball and goes home |
| 08:19.26 | rwhitby | 32425 downloads of ipkgs per day from ipkg.preware.org in the last 10 days |
| 08:21.42 | rwhitby | bbl |
| 08:26.25 | oil | how many mb/gbs is that? |
| 09:06.03 | *** join/#webos-internals edektor_ (n=edektor@173-129-59-244.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 09:27.11 | rwhitby | oil: oh, we don't really too much care about the mb's/gb's - osuosl has at least 3 10Gb/sec pipes to Internet2, the CPU on www.webos-internals.org peaks at about 10%, the memory peaks at about 50%, there is on average only about 20 simultaneous connections, and the outgoing traffic peaks at about 1MBit/sec. |
| 09:31.53 | oil | ah |
| 10:01.12 | *** join/#webos-internals greg_roll (i=3cf2679e@gateway/web/freenode/x-pvjkevtnfnrpvwnk) |
| 10:20.51 | *** join/#webos-internals christefano1 (n=christef@prod00.pvpn.sfo.witopia.net) |
| 10:33.50 | rwhitby | ok, my proposal for the Dropbear and OpenSSH packages that are installable without requiring Linux command line access are that they by default allow access on wifi only through the normal ssh port 22, with ssh key authentication only. We're going to teach people how to use ssh properly by default. |
| 10:34.44 | rwhitby | of course, the Pixi doesn't have wifi, so we'll need to think about what to do for it when it is released ... |
| 10:35.23 | *** join/#webos-internals FreeTim (n=freetim@pool-98-118-16-52.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 10:42.01 | *** join/#webos-internals ameng1 (n=fm@221.220.209.136) |
| 10:54.30 | oil | rwhitby: if there is directions for installation |
| 10:54.41 | oil | its totally going to not get fallowed |
| 11:05.17 | rwhitby | oil: sure, and if the directions for activating key authentication is not followed, then it simply will not connect. fail-safe :-) |
| 11:06.19 | rwhitby | oil: hey, you'll be a good alpha tester for this, since you haven't installed optware using the manual method previously. |
| 11:06.42 | oil | lol |
| 11:07.08 | freakout | shakes head at oil's laziness. |
| 11:07.39 | rwhitby | freakout: I believe in oil's case it's a case of principles, not laziness. |
| 11:07.40 | oil | im sure someone else will be willing to test it out right after a doctor xD |
| 11:08.00 | oil | actually |
| 11:08.01 | freakout | oil has principles? |
| 11:08.16 | oil | when the pre first came out |
| 11:08.17 | oil | i joined here |
| 11:08.17 | oil | and attempted to go through the directions |
| 11:08.17 | oil | but it didnt work |
| 11:08.20 | oil | the tools wouldnt connect to my pre |
| 11:08.23 | oil | so i left |
| 11:08.28 | oil | cause i couldnt get help at the time |
| 11:08.35 | oil | lol |
| 11:08.42 | freakout | this channel is full of snobs |
| 11:08.53 | freakout | :P |
| 11:09.47 | freakout | People turn up and say PLZ HELP MI PRE IS RETIRED |
| 11:10.01 | freakout | and you turn them away. |
| 11:10.32 | rwhitby | oil: you know what happened that day? (I just looked at the logs) |
| 11:10.57 | oil | no |
| 11:11.00 | rwhitby | oil: you asked for help at "Jun 13 05:33:16 <oil> i try to run talk.py, and get errors" |
| 11:11.08 | oil | seriously |
| 11:11.43 | rwhitby | then this happened: "Jun 13 05:42:21 <cdm> Why are you trying to write code in thumb? Nothing on pre is compiled that way..." |
| 11:12.00 | freakout | hahaha |
| 11:12.23 | rwhitby | then this: "Jun 13 05:42:56 <geist> cdm: not true, bootie is in thumb2" |
| 11:13.23 | freakout | Oooo, internal division within Palm |
| 11:13.28 | freakout | blogs madly |
| 11:15.43 | oil | so yeah |
| 11:15.46 | oil | but now i dont have to know any of that |
| 11:15.49 | oil | and just write the mojo |
| 11:18.32 | rwhitby | bbiab |
| 11:51.55 | rwhitby | ok, I need a guinea pig for dropbear and openssh |
| 11:57.48 | oil | which package was it that didn't have a java restart in it? |
| 11:58.01 | oil | accel service? |
| 12:01.19 | rwhitby | yep accelservice |
| 12:01.26 | rwhitby | oil: ^^ |
| 12:01.31 | oil | yeah |
| 12:03.56 | jettero | I read somewhere that palm might not continue to ship prototype with webos... seems unlikely to me ... |
| 12:04.03 | oil | yeah |
| 12:04.12 | oil | especially considering how many apps are probably using it |
| 12:04.18 | jettero | right... |
| 12:04.31 | oil | preware is the first app ive written that isn't using it |
| 12:04.34 | jettero | I was thinking about using jquery (which I know by heart) instead, but I imagine prototype will continue to be there and it's the same thing basically |
| 12:04.36 | oil | and, ive missed some of its features |
| 12:05.06 | jettero | I found some prototype for jquery peeps type docs and ... I'm just going to use prototype |
| 12:05.25 | oil | lol |
| 12:05.30 | oil | ive never used jquery |
| 12:05.33 | oil | but ive used prototype a lot |
| 12:06.07 | jettero | if I do an Ajax.Request(get) and the get sets a cookie... will my app store the cookie somewhere automatically? is the app like a little browser? |
| 12:06.42 | jettero | does each app get its own cookie jar? or do they share? |
| 12:07.25 | oil | im pretty sure they're stored via appid |
| 12:07.31 | oil | i use the same name in multiple apps |
| 12:07.34 | oil | without any problems |
| 12:07.57 | oil | yeah the app is like a little browser |
| 12:07.59 | jettero | I definitely don't mean setting a cookie by hand, I mean the website I'm hitting via ajax |
| 12:08.06 | oil | oh |
| 12:08.06 | oil | that |
| 12:08.07 | oil | i dont know |
| 12:08.12 | jettero | yeah |
| 12:08.15 | jettero | I'll have to just play with it |
| 12:08.20 | jettero | the docs are a little thin here. ;) |
| 12:08.22 | oil | maybe its tied to the cookies stored from the browser? |
| 12:08.29 | oil | it would be interrested to see what you find out |
| 12:08.33 | oil | i would be* |
| 12:08.44 | jettero | any idea where the cookies, depots and sqlites are stored for apps? |
| 12:08.48 | jettero | I'm going to have to poke around in there |
| 12:08.51 | oil | no clue |
| 12:11.16 | jettero | :) |
| 12:12.46 | oil | rwhitby: git version of preware now obeys the flags |
| 12:13.03 | oil | still not doing dependencies yet |
| 12:13.08 | oil | but, its almost ready :) |
| 12:14.06 | oil | goes to sleeps now |
| 12:15.35 | rwhitby | oil: awesome, I'll test it out. |
| 12:15.39 | oil | yea |
| 12:15.41 | oil | it needs thati |
| 12:15.45 | oil | i havent tested it on my pre yet |
| 12:15.51 | oil | cause im too lazy to move the usb cable right now xD |
| 12:15.55 | rwhitby | ok |
| 12:16.07 | oil | i also added a "launch" button to installed applications |
| 12:16.14 | oil | and a spinner while its doing something |
| 12:16.28 | oil | and removed the update button from patches |
| 12:16.30 | rwhitby | I just found a bug in how we run postinsts - we need to define $IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT for update-alternatives to work, so I'm fixing that at the moment. |
| 12:16.39 | oil | forcing a removal and then reinstallation |
| 12:16.54 | rwhitby | wow, lots of new stuf |
| 12:16.58 | oil | yeah |
| 12:17.04 | oil | and if you scroll down then start typing to filter |
| 12:17.08 | oil | it moves back to the top of hte list |
| 12:17.14 | oil | before you would get a blank page till you flicked it down |
| 12:17.54 | oil | i think i spelled out my changes in all the commit comments |
| 12:17.55 | oil | xD |
| 12:17.57 | oil | ok |
| 12:17.59 | oil | sleep |
| 12:18.00 | oil | later |
| 12:58.59 | *** join/#webos-internals ameng|home (n=flmsxs@221.220.209.136) |
| 13:34.28 | rwhitby | Looking for alpha testers for ipkgservice 0.8.8 |
| 13:34.31 | *** join/#webos-internals ConfusedVorlon_ (n=Rob@94-169-110-167.cable.ubr22.aztw.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 13:43.41 | *** join/#webos-internals greg_roll (i=3cf2679e@gateway/web/freenode/x-ibapgzuzrennrdse) |
| 13:44.14 | rwhitby | anyone here who can test ipkgservice? |
| 13:57.35 | *** join/#webos-internals mike_w1 (n=mikew@209.234.72.115) |
| 14:01.56 | *** join/#webos-internals Ingenium13 (n=josh@c-71-199-97-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:03.49 | rwhitby | Package Manager Service 0.8.8 is released - no new user visible features, but support for update-alternatives processing in installation scripts (so dropbear and openssh can both be installed, and one gets priority over the over for /opt/bin/ssh and /opt/bin/scp) |
| 14:13.34 | rwhitby | bbt |
| 14:18.25 | tmzt | interesting about thumb2 |
| 14:19.08 | tmzt | so bootie will have to be changed for pixi, though that'a almost a given for msm |
| 14:20.27 | *** join/#webos-internals Decimation_ (n=Decimati@d192-24-56-160.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 14:27.05 | *** join/#webos-internals rawdr (n=rawdr@cpe-24-209-66-172.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 14:36.35 | tmzt | so bootie will have to be changed for pixi, though that'a almost a given for msm |
| 14:36.43 | tmzt | sorry |
| 14:39.36 | *** join/#webos-internals FreeTim1 (n=freetim@pool-71-174-135-223.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
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| 15:46.01 | *** join/#webos-internals Templarian (n=Templari@ppp-70-226-81-251.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net) |
| 15:46.01 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v Templarian] by ChanServ |
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| 15:49.25 | *** join/#webos-internals ameng1 (n=fm@221.220.209.136) |
| 16:17.12 | *** join/#webos-internals Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@50.118-226-89.dsl.completel.net) |
| 16:29.31 | Decimation | hey guys. |
| 16:31.30 | Templarian | Hello. |
| 16:40.12 | *** part/#webos-internals ameng1 (n=fm@221.220.209.136) |
| 16:43.59 | psykoz | can I just rm /opt, and relevant upstart scripts then install the actual preware apps? |
| 16:44.20 | *** part/#webos-internals gregoiregentil (n=gregoire@adsl-71-135-123-10.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 16:48.24 | *** join/#webos-internals pen^2 (n=pen@CPE000db91724c9-CM000f9fa84134.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 16:54.18 | Zuchmir2 | is there instructions somewhere how to use dropbear from preware? |
| 16:57.40 | psykoz | it's just an ssh daemon, by default in the past they've had it listening on port 222, so you just ssh to your pre's IP address:222 |
| 16:58.54 | Zuchmir2 | in preware iut was changed to 22, and requires keys |
| 16:59.13 | Zuchmir2 | the q. is how to setup the key pair on PC/pre |
| 17:14.43 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: yo |
| 17:14.49 | Zuchmir2 | hi |
| 17:15.14 | Zuchmir2 | saw you made major changes to the service |
| 17:15.17 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: im about to push a commit for your review |
| 17:15.22 | Zuchmir2 | ok |
| 17:15.27 | PuffTheMagic | i just added some memory stuff |
| 17:15.48 | Zuchmir2 | ok |
| 17:16.36 | *** join/#webos-internals alkos333 (n=alkos333@c-98-227-217-190.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 17:16.41 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: actually, i need to send you a nipit |
| 17:16.44 | PuffTheMagic | snipit |
| 17:16.59 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: http://pastebin.com/m13f7fb1d |
| 17:17.06 | PuffTheMagic | im getting a syntax error and i cant see why |
| 17:17.10 | PuffTheMagic | its probably obvious |
| 17:17.13 | PuffTheMagic | but im blind righr now |
| 17:17.54 | PuffTheMagic | ooh i see it |
| 17:17.55 | PuffTheMagic | :D |
| 17:17.56 | PuffTheMagic | lol |
| 17:20.34 | Zuchmir2 | ok, i did not spot the error (w/o compiling), probably have to see which line # the error is on to spot it |
| 17:25.20 | *** join/#webos-internals kesne (n=Kesne@pool-173-50-235-167.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:25.43 | kesne | Morning all |
| 17:26.20 | PuffTheMagic | i had a random NULL in there |
| 17:26.26 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: ok so its pushed |
| 17:26.37 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: the subscription/thread stuff isnt tied in yet |
| 17:26.43 | PuffTheMagic | so just test non-subscriptions |
| 17:26.47 | PuffTheMagic | the battery stuff works |
| 17:26.56 | PuffTheMagic | havent gotten the mem stuff working yet |
| 17:27.03 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: added some build instructions |
| 17:27.18 | PuffTheMagic | Zuchmir2: i didnt add the -rpath stuff yet so idk of it will work for you or not |
| 17:27.21 | PuffTheMagic | let me know |
| 17:28.54 | PuffTheMagic | ahh i think i know why the mem stuff aint working |
| 17:30.43 | Decimation | guys, i just checked, my build date is 5/20/09 |
| 17:30.47 | PuffTheMagic | kesne: hi |
| 17:30.48 | Decimation | maybe thats why my pre sucks? lol |
| 17:31.32 | kesne | PuffTheMagic: Good Morning, well, morning for me :D |
| 17:31.47 | PuffTheMagic | west coast? |
| 17:32.47 | *** join/#webos-internals HattCzech_ (n=chatzill@cpe-66-69-208-155.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 17:33.03 | kesne | Yep |
| 17:33.05 | kesne | Oregon |
| 17:33.26 | PuffTheMagic | :D |
| 17:33.52 | kesne | EVERYING WITH webOS 1.2, YOUR APP CATALOG NOW WORKS! |
| 17:34.38 | *** join/#webos-internals Joesmith_fromcha (n=Joesmith@ip68-0-127-22.tu.ok.cox.net) |
| 17:35.05 | Decimation | its great :) |
| 17:35.37 | kesne | And everyone with 1.1, it nows says FREE, not TRY ME |
| 17:36.25 | Joesmith_fromcha | what says free? |
| 17:36.45 | kesne | App Price |
| 17:37.21 | Joesmith_fromcha | which app? |
| 17:37.49 | Decimation | all of them |
| 17:37.51 | kesne | All of them |
| 17:37.55 | Decimation | the new app catalog has launched for 1.2 |
| 17:38.01 | Decimation | and there are A LOT of changes |
| 17:38.07 | kesne | And 1.1 apps now say free |
| 17:38.23 | Joesmith_fromcha | I dont have webos 1.2 I am lame |
| 17:38.29 | Templarian | Hopefully we get the ota update soon. |
| 17:38.46 | Templarian | Finally it says free that try me thing was confusing. |
| 17:38.51 | Decimation | yeah, i wonder if the guy from palm might announce 1.2 on the engadget show tonight. |
| 17:39.04 | Templarian | Decimation: I was thinking that also. |
| 17:39.17 | Templarian | Good publicity if they fixed the itunes thing also. |
| 17:39.39 | Joesmith_fromcha | yep |
| 17:39.46 | PuffTheMagic | Decimation: the app catalog auto updates it self? |
| 17:40.10 | Decimation | Decimation, idk, i have 1.2 |
| 17:40.21 | Decimation | but it's live now |
| 17:40.26 | Decimation | screenshots will be out in a minute |
| 17:40.45 | Joesmith_fromcha | I hope they fix itunes again, I dont use it but I lik to see apple poked |
| 17:40.48 | kesne | PuffTheMagic: No |
| 17:40.49 | Templarian | PuffTheMagic: 1.2 users had it but the server side wasn't on. |
| 17:40.58 | kesne | It's downloading prices and stuff serverside |
| 17:41.09 | kesne | The catalog went offline for an hour or so last night |
| 17:41.17 | kesne | They changed all try mes to free |
| 17:41.27 | kesne | And loaded up the 1.2 server files |
| 17:41.31 | Decimation | and on 1.2 |
| 17:41.37 | Decimation | it now gives a list of credit cards you can use |
| 17:41.41 | Joesmith_fromcha | mofo battery shiiiiiiiii |
| 17:42.40 | kesne | WebOS 1.2 Catalog Topic: Will be updated with screenshots |
| 17:42.45 | kesne | http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/202835-1-2-app-catalog.html |
| 17:43.39 | Joesmith_fromcha | do you think we will be able to try most apps for free before we buy? |
| 17:44.04 | Joesmith_fromcha | I think I would like to trysomething for free before I pay |
| 17:44.09 | Templarian | Joesmith_fromcha: it's a developer choice. |
| 17:44.15 | kesne | I think so |
| 17:44.36 | kesne | I'm going for a full free version with added functionality in pro |
| 17:45.13 | Templarian | I'm going for always free... once I find time to start coding. |
| 17:45.30 | Joesmith_fromcha | I hope so, I think the quickcontacts trial is a good model, but the trial could be shorter |
| 17:45.55 | Joesmith_fromcha | like 2 days or something |
| 17:46.29 | Templarian | With trialware it should be long enough for constant use that they get hooked. |
| 17:46.44 | Templarian | Marketing is fun :) |
| 17:48.33 | Joesmith_fromcha | when I downloaded checkers from the app cat I can play against the program, wierd..... |
| 17:48.43 | *** join/#webos-internals HattCzech_ (n=chatzill@cpe-66-69-208-155.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 17:48.55 | Joesmith_fromcha | I hope someone makes a chess app soon |
| 17:49.11 | Templarian | Joesmith_fromcha: isn't there already? |
| 17:49.14 | kesne | I am making one |
| 17:49.16 | kesne | Well |
| 17:49.18 | kesne | Altering one |
| 17:49.21 | Joesmith_fromcha | sweet |
| 17:49.31 | Joesmith_fromcha | yeah but it really sucks hard core |
| 17:49.40 | Joesmith_fromcha | the enignie |
| 17:49.44 | Joesmith_fromcha | not the app |
| 17:49.49 | Joesmith_fromcha | it cant play |
| 17:50.14 | Decimation | http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc109/ShiftyEyezz/screenshots/ |
| 17:50.18 | Decimation | new app catalog |
| 17:50.19 | kesne | WOO |
| 17:51.29 | Templarian | Nice. |
| 17:51.36 | Joesmith_fromcha | sweet |
| 17:51.57 | Joesmith_fromcha | wait isnt pdf viewer stock |
| 17:52.00 | Joesmith_fromcha | and free |
| 17:54.08 | kesne | Those are installed apps |
| 17:54.47 | Joesmith_fromcha | doesnt know up from down |
| 17:55.15 | Decimation | yeah, idk why pdf view doesn't show up as a stock app. |
| 17:56.21 | kesne | Beta Tag still? |
| 17:56.22 | kesne | ARg |
| 17:56.34 | Templarian | Maybe they moved palm apps out of the OTA main update? |
| 17:59.11 | Decimation | more screenshots being uploaded |
| 17:59.29 | kesne | Alright |
| 17:59.35 | kesne | Thanks Decimation! |
| 18:01.40 | Decimation | done, 4 more added. |
| 18:02.26 | kesne | No screenshots in checkers? :P |
| 18:02.32 | Decimation | well, now im overall satisfied with everything 1.2 brings. |
| 18:02.39 | kesne | Haha |
| 18:02.39 | Decimation | kesne: gdial was the first app :P |
| 18:02.46 | kesne | Yeah |
| 18:02.48 | kesne | Alright |
| 18:04.16 | tmzt | gdial? |
| 18:05.23 | Decimation | tmzt: ? |
| 18:05.34 | jettero | prototype appears to completely suck. It fires onSuccess when status=0 because of a host not found. Grrz. |
| 18:05.49 | jettero | is it really an onSuccess when the website doesn't resolve? |
| 18:06.42 | pen^2 | i found that out yesterday too |
| 18:06.46 | tmzt | what is gdial |
| 18:07.02 | pen^2 | i don't get why the hell it would return onSuccess |
| 18:07.48 | jettero | yeah, took me a while. If I hit a page on a site it can resolve it goes to onFail with the 404 |
| 18:08.04 | jettero | but if I try to get fakefakeafakesite.com it goes to onSuccess with status=0 |
| 18:08.15 | jettero | using Ajax.Request(), which I think is prototype |
| 18:08.34 | jettero | (hit a page that doesn't exist on a site that does... I should say). |
| 18:10.10 | Joesmith_fromcha | whats ajax.request? |
| 18:10.48 | Templarian | It's the thingy that lets the thing talk to other things. |
| 18:11.09 | jettero | tries sock puppets |
| 18:14.22 | Joesmith_fromcha | does it contact the server to validate that something is legit? |
| 18:14.35 | jettero | Joesmith_fromcha: http://www.prototypejs.org/api/ajax/request |
| 18:15.04 | Joesmith_fromcha | thanks |
| 18:19.28 | raeb_ | <Templarian> It's the thingy that lets the thing talk to other things. rofl |
| 18:20.40 | Joesmith_fromcha | what is it used for in an application? |
| 18:21.42 | jettero | Joesmith_fromcha: you're going to have to reason it out |
| 18:21.56 | Joesmith_fromcha | :D |
| 18:22.15 | Decimation | you guys, what was the app catalog download limit? |
| 18:22.18 | Decimation | 50 or 60? |
| 18:22.22 | Templarian | 80 |
| 18:22.27 | Decimation | no... |
| 18:22.31 | Decimation | it was like 60? |
| 18:23.27 | Joesmith_fromcha | you can download more then that? |
| 18:23.29 | Templarian | Joesmith_fromcha: Almost every application talks to an outside server. You basically request information from the server through "requests". |
| 18:24.04 | Joesmith_fromcha | woah I didnt know that apps like calculator talked to a server |
| 18:24.09 | Rick_home | it is also used to read files from the local file system |
| 18:24.25 | Templarian | Joesmith_fromcha: "almost every", calc is one of the few. |
| 18:24.43 | Rick_home | so in an ebook reader, as you move from chapter to chapter you ajax request the next chapter's file from the local file system |
| 18:24.54 | Joesmith_fromcha | ahhh |
| 18:25.05 | Templarian | (since loading a full book into ram wouldn't be smart) |
| 18:25.59 | Joesmith_fromcha | but if it connects to an outside server and exchanges data couldlnt it be told to send data, in therory malciously? |
| 18:26.37 | jettero | yeah, the prototype docs even say that onSuccess is invoked when status is not defined (0 here), which happens on host not found |
| 18:26.38 | Templarian | Joesmith_fromcha: Of course, but Mojo apps only have access to higher level data. |
| 18:26.42 | jettero | so that behavior is intentional |
| 18:27.20 | jettero | Joesmith_fromcha: your web browser constantly connnects to remote servers, some of which are malicious. Lose any sleep over it? |
| 18:27.31 | Joesmith_fromcha | nope :D |
| 18:27.42 | jettero | k, webos is pretty much a fancy web browser |
| 18:27.48 | jettero | relax |
| 18:27.55 | Joesmith_fromcha | or I could just use lynks and be more happy |
| 18:28.09 | jettero | lynx is a web browser too... |
| 18:28.19 | jettero | so is links and elinks. :) |
| 18:28.28 | Joesmith_fromcha | which is ugly |
| 18:28.41 | Templarian | Real web browsers use cross domain policies, but of course that idea doesn't work on a mobile device. |
| 18:34.53 | Rob____ | new app catalog looks fancy |
| 18:35.06 | kesne | Still has limit |
| 18:35.42 | jettero | did that new update roll out yet? or are you guys just installing it early still? |
| 18:35.51 | kesne | Not yet |
| 18:36.15 | jettero | yeah, didn't turn up in mine, wondered if they're doing it by region or something |
| 18:39.08 | Decimation | webOS 1.2 still has a 50 app download limit. |
| 18:39.46 | Rob____ | what would be the purpose of that? |
| 18:40.10 | Decimation | who knows. |
| 18:40.27 | jettero | seems webos re-scans the image dirs, and mp3 dirs every single time... I'm betting it rescans apps too, and anything more than like 60 or 80 slows down the launcher too much |
| 18:40.33 | jettero | jsut a hunch, no evidence |
| 18:40.44 | Rob____ | indexing API |
| 18:43.45 | kesne | Haha |
| 18:43.49 | kesne | I just remembered something |
| 18:43.53 | kesne | predevcamp.org |
| 18:44.13 | Rob____ | and? |
| 18:44.40 | kesne | The contest.... |
| 18:44.59 | Rob____ | Heh |
| 18:45.03 | kesne | Who is Rob____? |
| 18:45.10 | kesne | When did he get here? |
| 18:45.16 | Rob____ | Where is he going? |
| 18:45.57 | kesne | hmm? |
| 18:46.58 | Decimation | ;) |
| 18:47.09 | kesne | What? |
| 18:47.14 | kesne | Confusioun |
| 18:48.20 | kesne | I broke a little thing off of my pre today |
| 18:48.24 | kesne | I got so mad |
| 18:48.29 | kesne | Then I remembered |
| 18:48.30 | Joesmith_fromcha | NO |
| 18:48.33 | Joesmith_fromcha | :( |
| 18:48.34 | kesne | I don't really care |
| 18:48.49 | kesne | It doesnt look ANY different |
| 18:49.02 | Xyg | The USB door? |
| 18:49.06 | kesne | Just makes it harder to fiddle with the batery door |
| 18:49.10 | kesne | Something near it, yes |
| 18:49.22 | psykoz | I hate the usb door so I took it out as well |
| 18:49.57 | psykoz | I need to find the replacement so when I go talk to Sprint about the cracks developing around the usb port they don't look at me like I intentionally abused my phone |
| 18:49.58 | Xyg | I would remove it, but it increases the drag coefficient on the phone too much |
| 18:50.07 | Joesmith_fromcha | I had a nightmare someone was twisting my pre like an oreo two days ago, I swear to you |
| 18:50.51 | kesne | Pixi has a nice thing |
| 18:51.33 | Xyg | that rubberized door is nice |
| 18:51.57 | kesne | Yeah |
| 18:52.04 | kesne | Who is Xyg? |
| 18:52.09 | kesne | Why arent you rob anymore? |
| 18:52.42 | Xyg | Who is kense? |
| 18:52.54 | kesne | It's kesne, not kense |
| 18:52.54 | Xyg | kesne, rather |
| 18:52.58 | kesne | :P |
| 18:53.02 | kesne | And I'm Jordan Gensler |
| 18:53.05 | kesne | jordangens@gmail.com |
| 18:53.07 | Xyg | congratulations |
| 18:53.07 | psykoz | who is keens? |
| 18:53.11 | kesne | support@villo.me |
| 18:53.12 | psykoz | or who is keesn! |
| 18:53.17 | psykoz | hi keesn! |
| 18:53.30 | psykoz | ;) |
| 18:53.41 | kesne | :P |
| 18:53.56 | kesne | Everyone says kesne like it's spelled kense |
| 18:54.00 | kesne | it's all good |
| 18:54.59 | Joesmith_fromcha | is there anyway two download apps from the app catalog onto the emulator? |
| 18:55.21 | kesne | Well, no way TWO download apps from catalog on emulator |
| 18:55.44 | kesne | And not sure about anyway to download apps from catalog on emulator |
| 18:55.49 | kesne | I don't use the emulator |
| 18:56.30 | *** join/#webos-internals PreGame (n=PreGame@unaffiliated/pregame) |
| 18:56.30 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v PreGame] by ChanServ |
| 18:57.32 | Joesmith_fromcha | Iknow two lol |
| 18:58.00 | Joesmith_fromcha | I felt bad after I typed that |
| 18:58.06 | kesne | IT's all good |
| 18:58.09 | kesne | It happens |
| 18:58.34 | Joesmith_fromcha | is there one way to download them :D |
| 18:59.03 | kesne | xD |
| 19:00.30 | Joesmith_fromcha | so you can only download 50 apps from the catalog, what about sideloading 50+ |
| 19:00.50 | Xyg | you can using preware |
| 19:01.32 | Joesmith_fromcha | right, but does homebrew count as part of the 50? |
| 19:01.44 | Xyg | I believe Filecoaster installs to the same directory as the app catalog does, so whatever you download with that program counts in that 50 |
| 19:02.17 | Xyg | not with preware, as it installs to a different directory |
| 19:02.30 | Joesmith_fromcha | really? |
| 19:02.44 | Joesmith_fromcha | not var/usr/palm/apps? |
| 19:03.03 | *** join/#webos-internals kesne (n=Kesne@pool-173-50-235-167.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:03.31 | kesne | Wait |
| 19:03.41 | kesne | We are supposed to talk about webOS INTERNALS in here? |
| 19:04.07 | Xyg | I think so? |
| 19:04.29 | Joesmith_fromcha | so what dir does preware install to? |
| 19:08.36 | Joesmith_fromcha | so how does one get around the max apps? |
| 19:09.37 | Rick_home | preware installs to /var/usr/palm/applications |
| 19:10.02 | Rick_home | and the max apps is a limit of the app catalog and of the palm install and not of ipkg -- preware uses ipkg which doesn't CARE |
| 19:10.43 | Xyg | thanks for clarifying rick |
| 19:11.41 | Joesmith_fromcha | very cool |
| 19:11.59 | Rick_home | preware and filecoaster install to the same DIRECTORY but they do it in different WAYS |
| 19:12.09 | Joesmith_fromcha | so as long as you install via ipkg no limit? |
| 19:18.19 | *** join/#webos-internals kesne (n=Kesne@pool-173-50-235-167.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:19.09 | Joesmith_fromcha | what would I do if I wanted to download 50 apps from the catalog? |
| 19:19.34 | Joesmith_fromcha | or 51, I cant find it now but I am sure there was a way around it |
| 19:20.54 | Rick_home | Joesmith_fromcha: as long as you install from preware, memory limit only |
| 19:21.15 | Rick_home | which can be severe if you're installing big apps |
| 19:22.47 | Joesmith_fromcha | can preware install apps from the app catalog? |
| 19:36.31 | *** join/#webos-internals Max__ (n=Max@72.243.164.154) |
| 19:37.31 | *** join/#webos-internals doodums (n=thadood@c-75-66-217-39.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
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| 19:43.03 | *** join/#webos-internals Orion_PK (n=OrioNPK@c-75-72-37-51.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 19:52.58 | Decimation | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI7wTuBziEw |
| 19:56.03 | Joesmith_fromcha | lol |
| 19:57.14 | Joesmith_fromcha | found it |
| 19:57.32 | Joesmith_fromcha | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Symlink_Applications |
| 20:02.00 | *** join/#webos-internals christefano (n=christef@c-76-23-159-24.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 20:03.53 | Xyg | how to access the emulator with putty? |
| 20:10.55 | *** join/#webos-internals christefano1 (n=christef@prod00.pvpn.sfo.witopia.net) |
| 20:17.41 | punzada | so sprints nfl mobile live is garbage their servers must be getting hit hard with everyone trying to use it lol |
| 20:18.15 | *** join/#webos-internals DieterBohn (n=dbohn@rrcs-67-79-130-162.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 20:33.56 | Templarian | punzada: yea it just keeps loading. |
| 20:34.24 | Templarian | nvm just super slow |
| 20:34.38 | punzada | mine has not been able to connect the last 4 times i tried |
| 20:34.55 | Templarian | It spins for like a solid minute. |
| 20:35.06 | Templarian | or more. |
| 20:36.54 | Templarian | 3 minutes later and I can see a screen... too bad I don't care about sports. :) |
| 20:39.33 | punzada | that is too bad ;p |
| 20:39.49 | punzada | I like the NFL app but have little to no use for the nascar app since.. nascar sucks ;p |
| 20:40.30 | punzada | Error - Cant connect to the server - try again later. |
| 20:40.30 | punzada | lol |
| 20:40.37 | punzada | fail again nfl, fail again |
| 20:48.01 | oil | yawns |
| 20:48.32 | kesne | Hey all |
| 20:48.35 | oil | notices 1.2 app catalog has applications and updates/insatlled sections like preware xD |
| 20:49.30 | kesne | Yep |
| 20:49.41 | kesne | I also notice the first word on that |
| 20:51.59 | Xyg | can someone point me to resources on putty'ing into the emulator? |
| 20:52.01 | oil | eh? |
| 20:52.10 | kesne | eh? |
| 20:52.50 | oil | "putty'omg"? |
| 20:52.53 | oil | ing* |
| 20:52.54 | oil | lol |
| 20:52.58 | Xyg | :/ |
| 20:53.01 | oil | anyways |
| 20:53.05 | bpadalino | who maintains the ipkgservice java code ? |
| 20:53.10 | oil | ssh to 127.0.0.1 |
| 20:53.12 | oil | port 5522 |
| 20:53.16 | Xyg | thanks oil |
| 20:53.27 | oil | bpadalino: that would be rwhitby |
| 20:53.35 | bpadalino | ah ok .. |
| 20:53.38 | oil | why? |
| 20:54.14 | bpadalino | i think the code should use a static initializer for the class for getting the feeds informations ... so it doesn't have to do it all the time .. or for every object that gets created |
| 20:54.29 | bpadalino | and then synchronize updates to the static information |
| 20:55.51 | PuffTheMagic | bpadalino: i will me making a new pkgmrg in C shortly |
| 20:56.05 | bpadalino | oh neato |
| 20:56.19 | PuffTheMagic | after i whip up the upstart service |
| 20:56.26 | bpadalino | whip it good |
| 20:56.28 | PuffTheMagic | :D |
| 20:56.52 | PuffTheMagic | when a pre-service comes along... |
| 20:56.58 | PuffTheMagic | ...you must whip it |
| 20:58.08 | bpadalino | heh |
| 20:58.51 | PuffTheMagic | so besides processes, memory, battery, disk usage |
| 20:59.01 | PuffTheMagic | what other "monitors" could i add to ubermonsrv? |
| 20:59.12 | PuffTheMagic | netstats? |
| 20:59.30 | bpadalino | that's probably a good thing to keep track of.. |
| 20:59.39 | bpadalino | for all interfaces |
| 21:00.24 | PuffTheMagic | even know its not "monitor" it think im gonna add method to change the IO scheduler |
| 21:00.37 | PuffTheMagic | oooh |
| 21:00.41 | PuffTheMagic | what about cpufreq :D |
| 21:00.47 | PuffTheMagic | should add that in there too |
| 21:01.12 | oil | put them all on the list |
| 21:01.24 | PuffTheMagic | oil: ? |
| 21:01.47 | PuffTheMagic | oil: was that a yes for cpufreq stuff? |
| 21:02.03 | oil | and netstats |
| 21:02.05 | *** join/#webos-internals kesne (n=Kesne@pool-173-50-235-167.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:02.08 | PuffTheMagic | yeah |
| 21:02.17 | PuffTheMagic | i am never gonna get to the upstart service now |
| 21:02.28 | oil | you're even got icons! |
| 21:02.42 | PuffTheMagic | i better make a 0.1.0 of the ubermonsrv with mem and battery support |
| 21:02.45 | PuffTheMagic | then to upstart |
| 21:02.53 | PuffTheMagic | and then come back to the monitor |
| 21:02.55 | oil | all wrapped in subscriptions? |
| 21:03.08 | PuffTheMagic | subscriptions for individual things right now |
| 21:03.12 | oil | ah |
| 21:03.13 | oil | ok |
| 21:03.17 | PuffTheMagic | "right now" |
| 21:03.19 | PuffTheMagic | that could change |
| 21:03.27 | oil | lol |
| 21:03.45 | PuffTheMagic | there are like 16 battery methods and 13 methods for mem |
| 21:03.46 | PuffTheMagic | :D |
| 21:03.54 | PuffTheMagic | there are gonna like 100 methods soon |
| 21:04.23 | oil | the more info the better the monitor thing |
| 21:06.12 | kesne | webOS 1.2 this week |
| 21:06.18 | kesne | For sure |
| 21:08.03 | PuffTheMagic | just like the past 2 weeks |
| 21:08.48 | kesne | This time I have a great source |
| 21:08.54 | kesne | It's almost 100% positive |
| 21:09.06 | Xyg | Jonny R.? |
| 21:11.32 | *** join/#webos-internals Destroyer661 (n=ORLY@dyn216-8-168-216.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 21:11.42 | *** part/#webos-internals Destroyer661 (n=ORLY@dyn216-8-168-216.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 21:15.35 | gkatsev | http://blog.wolfire.com/2009/09/preview-of-webkits-webgl-canvas3d/ |
| 21:17.24 | Eguy | kesne how can you be so sure |
| 21:17.42 | kesne | I just am |
| 21:17.47 | *** join/#webos-internals eno (n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno) |
| 21:17.47 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v eno] by ChanServ |
| 21:18.54 | tmzt | gkatsev: sadly that wouldn't be very fast on Pre without the gl driver |
| 21:18.54 | *** join/#webos-internals christefano (n=christef@c-76-23-159-24.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:20.17 | *** join/#webos-internals christefano1 (n=christef@c-76-23-159-24.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:24.56 | Eguy | I hope so, I am patiently waiting |
| 21:25.59 | kesne | Me too |
| 21:29.07 | acydlord | haha irony, i'm working on my WebOS projects while wearing a sun microsystems shirt |
| 21:32.26 | kesne | ... |
| 21:33.27 | kesne | erg |
| 21:34.15 | kesne | AH |
| 21:34.21 | kesne | 29992 downloads |
| 21:35.25 | bpadalino | palindromes! |
| 21:36.34 | kesne | AHHHH |
| 21:36.39 | kesne | 29999 |
| 21:37.26 | bpadalino | what is being downloaded ? |
| 21:37.37 | kesne | http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu229/kesne/findapps_2009-13-09_143626.jpg |
| 21:37.39 | kesne | Checkers |
| 21:37.45 | bpadalino | ah cool |
| 21:37.59 | kesne | I wanted to see it at 29999 |
| 21:38.03 | Eguy | bpadalino: don't bother, it is a crappy app |
| 21:38.10 | bpadalino | heh |
| 21:38.17 | Eguy | ;) |
| 21:38.20 | bpadalino | only 3.5 stars :( |
| 21:38.33 | kesne | Well |
| 21:38.38 | kesne | Read the reveiws :/ |
| 21:38.42 | kesne | I know why |
| 21:38.48 | kesne | Everyone here knows why |
| 21:39.03 | kesne | And Eguy: do you hate me or something xD |
| 21:39.19 | Eguy | I am kidding buddy ;) |
| 21:41.08 | Eguy | I like the app myself, I usually lose though |
| 21:41.12 | bpadalino | piece location ? |
| 21:41.15 | bpadalino | that's the big issue? |
| 21:41.18 | Eguy | I am not good with checkers |
| 21:42.22 | *** join/#webos-internals AZero (n=user@76-193-146-161.lightspeed.kscymo.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:42.27 | kesne | bpadalino: that and penisland :/ |
| 21:42.50 | *** join/#webos-internals examance1 (n=examance@ip68-99-24-207.om.om.cox.net) |
| 21:42.52 | bpadalino | penisland.net ? |
| 21:42.55 | PuffTheMagic | i love how people are excited about downloads for checkers.... people are drying for a decent game... they will dowload anything at this rate |
| 21:43.05 | bpadalino | my friend actually runs penisland.net if you want some pens |
| 21:43.17 | PuffTheMagic | lol |
| 21:43.23 | Eguy | lol |
| 21:43.42 | Eguy | what is the deal with penis talk in this room? |
| 21:43.54 | bpadalino | whoa, who's talking about cock ?! |
| 21:44.01 | bpadalino | i just like pens |
| 21:44.48 | acydlord | the reviews in the palm app catalogue always make me lul |
| 21:44.54 | Eguy | Yes |
| 21:45.03 | Eguy | acydlord: I always end up reading them for fun |
| 21:45.03 | acydlord | its like youtube meets iphone fanboys |
| 21:45.14 | acydlord | me too |
| 21:45.27 | kesne | Haha |
| 21:45.33 | kesne | The checkers ones are really bad |
| 21:45.49 | acydlord | havent seen the checkers ones yet |
| 21:45.56 | acydlord | last one i looked at was lights out |
| 21:46.09 | kesne | Oh yeah |
| 21:46.12 | kesne | That ones is good |
| 21:46.22 | Eguy | I haven't read the lights out ones |
| 21:46.52 | kesne | "pretty dum gam" |
| 21:47.01 | kesne | *game |
| 21:47.11 | acydlord | yeah lol |
| 21:47.16 | *** join/#webos-internals HattCzech (n=chatzill@cpe-66-69-208-155.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 21:47.21 | kesne | Pretty dumb person |
| 21:47.40 | acydlord | some kid posted on my blog one time "your an a$$hole" |
| 21:47.50 | acydlord | i was like GRAMMAR FAIL |
| 21:48.08 | acydlord | went on for about a page explaining the differences of your and you're |
| 21:48.20 | acydlord | "your stupid" is always one that makes me laugh |
| 21:49.19 | Xyg | acydlord: absolutely fascinating. |
| 21:50.24 | bpadalino | your ideas intrigue me and i'd like to subscribe to your newsletter |
| 21:50.36 | acydlord | lol |
| 21:50.56 | acydlord | i seem to have opened up a can of worms |
| 21:51.26 | kesne | Woo, we should all watch this: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/202857-jon-rubinstein-speaks-2.html |
| 21:52.07 | Eguy | geesh |
| 21:52.17 | Eguy | It makes you wonder about the owners of the Pre |
| 21:52.36 | Eguy | mostly 14 year olds who can't spell or have a comprehension of grammar? |
| 21:57.03 | kesne | Eguy: Makes a guy wonder doesnt it |
| 21:57.49 | Eguy | Yes |
| 21:58.30 | bpadalino | should definitely listen in on the earnings conference call on the 17th |
| 21:58.39 | Eguy | http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/13/deutsche-telekom-eyeing-sprint-nextel-for-acquisition/ this would be interesting |
| 21:58.47 | bpadalino | that should be an interesting one since they will probably reveal pre numbers |
| 21:58.49 | tmzt | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:58.50 | tmzt | Jon just said he "does not know" the processor speed of the Pixie. |
| 21:58.55 | tmzt | the actual speed? |
| 21:59.09 | bpadalino | it'd be tricky if it were 88MPH |
| 21:59.43 | tmzt | it's 528 or 568 or something like that |
| 21:59.48 | tmzt | it's not cortex/omap3 |
| 21:59.56 | Eguy | It's qualcomm |
| 22:00.10 | tmzt | the engadget review says the interface is fast but not at scaling images and some webpages |
| 22:00.43 | *** join/#webos-internals dreadchicken (n=deadchic@cpe-67-10-214-58.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 22:00.48 | Eguy | well we know one thing is for sure.... build quality will be WAY up |
| 22:00.52 | Eguy | no oreo |
| 22:01.09 | Eguy | nothing to rock side to side |
| 22:01.18 | bpadalino | arm11 for sure in the msm7200 .. but probably super easy to bring over to umts |
| 22:01.56 | bpadalino | it does support openGL ES if palm ever wanted to do the 3d thing for all of webos |
| 22:02.32 | tmzt | it's not comparable to sgx, assuming it's the same ati imageon gpu from the other msm7k's |
| 22:03.18 | tmzt | 16:24 < tmzt> the engadget review says the interface is fast but not at scaling images and some webpages |
| 22:03.24 | tmzt | the engadget review says the interface is fast but not at scaling some images and some webpages |
| 22:03.55 | bpadalino | i believe they just do the resizing in software - nothing hardware accelerated about it currently |
| 22:04.37 | tmzt | which would explain it being faster on the Pre |
| 22:07.13 | bpadalino | i'd like to see the pixi's power numbers ... i have a feeling they'll be significantly better than the pre due to smaller screen size for one, and only powering one chip instead of both modem and omap |
| 22:09.02 | kesne | Eguy: just watch, it WILL wiggle |
| 22:10.22 | Eguy | hah |
| 22:14.36 | rwhitby | morning |
| 22:14.58 | tmzt | bpadalino: there's still a modem, and it's always on on the msm chip, at least partially |
| 22:15.16 | tmzt | also, linux (aurora) doesn't have full power collapse implmented that I know of |
| 22:15.19 | tmzt | yet |
| 22:15.25 | tmzt | unless it's in 2.6.29 kernel |
| 22:15.30 | bpadalino | it's a lot less silicon to power |
| 22:18.55 | Eguy | How much is too much? http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/13/brabus-e-v12-black-baron-is-cloaked-for-speed/ well that about sums it up |
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| 22:39.21 | acydlord | netsplit? |
| 22:40.36 | Eguy | always |
| 22:45.29 | acydlord | I actually dont see them often on freenode |
| 22:45.46 | Eguy | I have seen it a lot |
| 22:46.21 | Eguy | unless it is a coincidence |
| 22:47.46 | acydlord | maybe its the server you're on? |
| 22:47.56 | acydlord | or maybe its the server they are on |
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| 22:50.31 | TIWizard | How do I access the log on the device? /var/log? |
| 22:52.41 | rwhitby | in /var/log/messages |
| 22:53.51 | TIWizard | Ok, is there a command to filter out messages not produced by my app? |
| 22:54.17 | rwhitby | yep, grep |
| 22:54.26 | rwhitby | it's a linux box. |
| 22:55.03 | TIWizard | Ok, I will look that up. |
| 22:55.05 | TIWizard | Thanks |
| 22:55.05 | rwhitby | TIWizard: which Texas Instruments parts are you a wizard for? |
| 22:55.17 | TIWizard | Calculators |
| 22:55.17 | rwhitby | omap product line? |
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| 22:55.31 | TIWizard | Their graphing calculators |
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| 22:56.30 | rwhitby | ah, cool. are you working on a HP calc app for the Pre? |
| 22:56.41 | TIWizard | No, not right now |
| 22:57.15 | TIWizard | I might in the future, but only after the SDK has expanded a bit... |
| 22:57.26 | tmzt | TIWizard: we have a way to do bitmap graphics from native code |
| 22:57.39 | tmzt | maybe even faster than the ti calculators themselves |
| 22:57.49 | TIWizard | Not through the official SDK I assume |
| 22:57.55 | tmzt | no |
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| 22:58.40 | TIWizard | Well, maybe after I finish the app I am currently working on |
| 23:00.06 | kesne | Man, I love this band |
| 23:00.57 | tmzt | there's an open vti program right? |
| 23:01.44 | TIWizard | Emulator? Wabbitemu is one, but it is written in C |
| 23:02.02 | tmzt | I know there's one for X |
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