| 00:02.18 | *** join/#webos-internals playya_ (~playya@unaffiliated/playya) |
| 00:02.35 | mjkjr | rwhitby: that's kind of scary, have there been any known rogue webOS apps? |
| 00:04.46 | acydlord | rwhitby just put a disclaimer in firstrun on preware |
| 00:04.47 | rwhitby | mjkjr: well, unless you count MyTether ;-), no. |
| 00:07.14 | mjkjr | rwhitby: lol, that's one i've stayed away from, even though I've had the installer downloaded on my pc for a while. Just couldn't install it after reading some of the 'bad' |
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| 00:08.22 | rwhitby | acydlord: well, if you use Preware to install stuff, we can probably detect potential rogue apps. But we can't stop anyone using palm-install or webos quick install or fileCoaster or PreLoad to install rogue stuff. |
| 00:10.07 | acydlord | well true that. and its not like half the users listen to anything we tell them anyway. Just from looking at all the "nothing works after i upgraded" threads on preware |
| 00:10.15 | acydlord | err on precentral |
| 00:10.46 | mjkjr | i didn't know people still used fileCoaster or PreLoad, doesn't Preware pretty much do the same things except better? =) |
| 00:11.27 | rwhitby | fileCoaster is the #1 app downloaded from PreCentral. |
| 00:12.24 | mjkjr | because it's been out longer? i don't understand |
| 00:13.43 | rwhitby | oops, no now it's second on recent downloads and third on rating |
| 00:13.52 | mjkjr | when i first got my device i installed fileCoaster with Preware to see what it was. Then I was like, "Hmmm, this is redundant." |
| 00:15.48 | *** join/#webos-internals mjkjr (~460ed66f@gateway/web/freenode/x-tezbbwomdkzwaead) |
| 00:16.21 | mjkjr | rwhitby, so what is number one then? |
| 00:16.36 | rwhitby | http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps?order=field_recent_downloads_value&sort=desc |
| 00:20.41 | mjkjr | interesting, glad to see preware is towards the top. however why does it say it was last updated in october? |
| 00:21.22 | rwhitby | cause that's the last time I bothered to update that page |
| 00:22.45 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: so i didnt really see anything you need to change |
| 00:22.54 | rwhitby | mjkjr: if we had a general purpose windows installer that didn't need anything else installed, I'd upload it there more often |
| 00:22.54 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: i did make a few commits that i didnt push |
| 00:23.06 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: feel free to push, it's not used anywhere yet. |
| 00:23.14 | PuffTheMagic | well i didnt test it |
| 00:23.18 | PuffTheMagic | and its not "needed" |
| 00:23.19 | rwhitby | oh, ok :-) |
| 00:23.22 | PuffTheMagic | it was more as an example for you |
| 00:23.27 | rwhitby | wanna pastebin the diff then? |
| 00:24.39 | PuffTheMagic | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/189705/ |
| 00:25.10 | mjkjr | rwhitby: isn't there a general purpose installer or something like it? I'm pretty sure I initially installed preware with one (like 'Preware Installer' or something?) |
| 00:26.32 | rwhitby | mjkjr: there is, but it requires you to have novacom drivers installed, and it incorporates a particular version of the ipkgs, instead of grabbing the latest |
| 00:28.06 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: I see. Very interesting, thanks. |
| 00:28.16 | PuffTheMagic | rwhitby: we can use libipkg too, and keep the old service |
| 00:28.29 | PuffTheMagic | api i mean |
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| 00:30.41 | rwhitby | PuffTheMagic: see /msg |
| 00:31.04 | egaudet | rwhitby, question regarding build.git set up and aupt-4 going forward. Will we want to just put all patches, bspatches and "themes" in autopatch/ directory? |
| 00:31.27 | egaudet | I'm splitting up the VKB into two packages: the vkb patch and default themes & configuration. |
| 00:36.44 | mjkjr | speaking of vkb, i just switched from pixi to pre and installed the vkb, AMAZING! |
| 00:39.19 | rwhitby | egaudet: don't have a good understanding of the issues to make a comment on that. |
| 00:39.56 | egaudet | rwhitby, autopatch/ contains all patch packages. But we'll also have some bspatch and theme packages now with aupt-4 extending the capabilities |
| 00:40.17 | egaudet | we can throw them all into autopatch/ or re-structure things a bit |
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| 00:44.53 | rwhitby | egaudet: your call, we can make the builder go across one or many subdirs |
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| 01:06.18 | PuffTheMagic | how does does everyone open the slider on their pre? |
| 01:06.35 | PuffTheMagic | where do you push |
| 01:06.35 | PuffTheMagic | ? |
| 01:06.47 | bpadalino | thumb on the middle of the screen |
| 01:07.05 | PuffTheMagic | +1 for middle of screen :D |
| 01:07.10 | PuffTheMagic | that def works best |
| 01:07.37 | PuffTheMagic | i was just thinking about all thouse eary reviews |
| 01:07.45 | PuffTheMagic | where people were saying to push from the bottom |
| 01:09.18 | Tibfib | That creates more friction... >.< |
| 01:09.45 | PuffTheMagic | i wonder if oreo effect is correlated with pushing from the bottom |
| 01:10.06 | mjkjr | well i just got my new pre friday, after all the "oreo" talk i open mine very carefully |
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| 01:11.18 | mjkjr | PuffTheMagic, I think you're onto something with that |
| 01:12.43 | *** join/#webos-internals Tibfib (~tibfib94@69.149.154.246) |
| 01:13.36 | mjkjr | +1 for pushing with the middle of the screen, seems better (sturdier?) than pushing from the bottom |
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| 01:19.19 | acydlord | i think the oreo effect was mostly from idiots noticing that the phone had a slight wobble so they twisted it, seen it happen IRL more than a few times |
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| 01:27.00 | mjkjr | acydlord, lol I made a post that stated the exact thing before. someone said "my phone was alright, but when i twisted it and I noticed it had oreo" uh... |
| 01:27.23 | mjkjr | s/when/then |
| 01:27.29 | mjkjr | s/when/then/ |
| 01:27.37 | mjkjr | lol |
| 01:27.46 | dtzWill | i think pre's are subject to screen cracking. i noticed it looked like it might crack so i hit it with a hammer |
| 01:27.53 | acydlord | thats like saying "my screen was perfectly fine but when I smashed it with a hammer I noticed the screen cracked" |
| 01:28.00 | mjkjr | lmao |
| 01:28.00 | dtzWill | acydlord: LOL ;) |
| 01:28.11 | acydlord | dtzWill, great minds |
| 01:29.04 | dtzWill | :D |
| 01:29.59 | mjkjr | i've read a lot of "screen crack by usb door" so i've been super gentle with it, lol |
| 01:30.30 | PuffTheMagic | acydlord: the "oreo effect" refers to the "twistyness" of the pre in general |
| 01:30.33 | acydlord | ive dropped the shit out of my pre, twice, on concrete, face down |
| 01:30.37 | acydlord | i think it's pretty solid |
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| 01:30.43 | PuffTheMagic | its not just for idiots that actually spun it all the way around |
| 01:30.49 | oil | i droped mine down a flight of cement steps |
| 01:31.20 | acydlord | i think the screen and bezel is actually quite resiliant, i dont know what they changed in the process from the first gens |
| 01:31.23 | mjkjr | i dropped my pixi, but it felt solid. i've babied my pre so far just bc it feels more plasticky |
| 01:31.52 | acydlord | i'm affraid to drop my pixi, it is so light i think it might fall up |
| 01:32.19 | yoshiness | Can someone help me with just one little thing I need to develop my app? |
| 01:32.39 | acydlord | depends what it is |
| 01:32.52 | yoshiness | How do I change the text to white? |
| 01:33.08 | acydlord | facepalms |
| 01:33.38 | yoshiness | I've tried CSS to change the text to white, but it's just light gray |
| 01:34.33 | acydlord | it changed it to light grey instead of white? |
| 01:35.15 | yoshiness | Yes |
| 01:35.32 | yoshiness | I tried changing it to red, and it was still light gray |
| 01:36.07 | acydlord | sounds like you might be changing the value for the wrong text element then |
| 01:41.39 | *** join/#webos-internals yoshiness (~wIRCer@72-24-57-231.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 01:42.08 | yoshiness | Sorry. My computer kinda froze. |
| 01:42.35 | yoshiness | I'm using an HTML editor to build this all. |
| 01:44.21 | *** part/#webos-internals yoshiness (~wIRCer@72-24-57-231.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 01:44.33 | grndslm | rwhitby: could you change the name of the BYPASS_ACTIVATION feature in the Meta-Doc to BYPASS_PROFILE_CREATION or BYPASS_PP_CREATION or something? Or is there more that the "Palm Activation" does besides just Profile creation?? |
| 01:45.21 | grndslm | i just think when people see my guide, and they see "bypass specific-carrier activation", they automatically assume that's what that feature is... |
| 01:46.21 | rwhitby | grndslm: actually, that feature has no effect on profile creation |
| 01:46.43 | grndslm | rwhitby: then what exactly does this Palm Activation consist of? |
| 01:47.04 | rwhitby | it simply removes the need to activate the modem with the cellular carrier before getting to the point where Palm Profile stuff starts. |
| 01:48.30 | rwhitby | so BYPASS_ACTIVATION is all about the carrier, not about Palm. |
| 01:50.00 | grndslm | rwhitby: hmm... seems like that could be thrown in BYPASS_FIRST_USE_APP, too... or vice-versa |
| 01:50.52 | rwhitby | grndslm: no, they need to be separate, for CDMA vs GSM |
| 01:51.27 | rwhitby | I personally use both on my CDMA phone, but only the bypass first use app on one GSM phone, and both on the other GSM phone. |
| 01:57.12 | grndslm | rwhitby: so if you want to use the phone with a carrier, BYPASS_ACTIVATION *must not* be used? And if you want to use the phone WITH Palm Profile access & WITHOUT a specific carrier, BYPASS_ACTIVATION *must* be used?? |
| 01:57.58 | grndslm | i thought i had used BYPASS_ACTIVATION to create a Palm Profile over wifi before... |
| 01:58.35 | *** join/#webos-internals knickrox13 (~knickrox1@host109-234.student.udel.edu) |
| 01:59.02 | grndslm | rwhitby: also, why does REMOVE_CARRIER_CHECK say "This is not a method to use a device on a different cellular carrier"?? Because that's what it seems to do. . . |
| 02:00.16 | grndslm | it even says that under BYPASS_FIRST_USE_APP, which *would* need to be utilized in order to use on a different carrier |
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| 02:06.24 | rwhitby | grndslm: both of those are necessary, but not sufficient |
| 02:06.57 | rwhitby | meta-doctor makes the install vanilla. making it work on the new carrier is outside of the scope of the meta doctor (and always will be) |
| 02:07.17 | rwhitby | meta-doctor makes the device work on *no* carrier. |
| 02:07.39 | rwhitby | making it work on a *new* carrier is a separate step which meta-doctor does not address. |
| 02:11.12 | grndslm | rwhitby: ok.. lemme rephrase this. if somebody wanted to use an unlocked Movistar Pre on O2... they *should* be able to do so by enabling all three of these variables -- BYPASS_ACTIVATION, BYPASS_FIRST_USE_APP, REMOVE_CARRIER_CHECK??? |
| 02:11.23 | grndslm | or would they not want to BYPASS_ACTIVATION in such an instance? |
| 02:11.50 | rwhitby | if they are able to use their SIM on O2, then they should activate |
| 02:12.08 | grndslm | k |
| 02:13.28 | egaudet | Well aupt-4 looks pretty much ready, just need some test success cases I guess. VKB and change user agent are in testing feed, change user agent does binary patch, VKB uses 2 packages one with the text patching stuff one with additional file logic part of aupt-4. Only thing I'm not testing (for now) is Palm file replacement (like for themes, but it should work and is ready for testing) |
| 02:14.32 | *** join/#webos-internals imop45 (~440cdbfb@gateway/web/freenode/x-ukepibbonepovqsl) |
| 02:14.51 | imop45 | Hi all, i posted somthing a while back but had to go. |
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| 02:16.03 | imop45 | i ran cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state on a fresh Pre without patches running 1.4 |
| 02:16.58 | bpadalino | neat |
| 02:17.26 | imop45 | this was the result: 600000 9873 50000 691 500000 12689 250000 0 125000 0 |
| 02:18.00 | mjkjr | egaudet, i have vkb and it shows update in testing feed, what does it change? |
| 02:18.00 | imop45 | note the 600000 and 550000. Someone mentioned SDL apps use this? |
| 02:18.35 | rwhitby | egaudet: so, we get the autobuilder to do a patches testing feed with this change? |
| 02:19.09 | egaudet | mjkjr, just splits it up into 2 packages, one for the text patch and one for the theme/configs |
| 02:19.36 | imop45 | So, the CPU is running up to 600mhz on its own without any patches and its spending a lot of time their. |
| 02:19.45 | mjkjr | egaudet, so should i update my installed vkb and then install the vkb-default-themes patch. Or remove vkb first, then install. |
| 02:19.50 | egaudet | rwhitby, yeah and that's why I'm using the .testing scripts now, so that they can be used for the webos-patches-testing feed |
| 02:20.07 | egaudet | i'll just have to write up a new testing rule |
| 02:20.57 | egaudet | mjkjr, if you want to help test just update it. it will remove the current package and then install both others. The vkb patch package depends on the vkb default themes pacakge |
| 02:23.37 | mjkjr | oh i see, shoud've figured you'd make it super easy. |
| 02:24.29 | mjkjr | egaudet, is there a reason you split up vkb? |
| 02:25.08 | egaudet | mjkjr, yeah the theme/config part takes a LONG time to install/uninstall and rarely if ever is changed |
| 02:25.39 | mjkjr | lol, it is taking a LONG time to install |
| 02:25.45 | egaudet | also, updating the config part of it will give a new kb_config.json file which wipes out user changes like haptic feedback, added themes etc... |
| 02:26.05 | egaudet | the patch package wil update more frquently but doesn't need to remove/update the other parts |
| 02:26.10 | egaudet | gtg for a bit |
| 02:26.14 | egaudet | bbl |
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| 02:29.20 | imop45 | I'm having an interesting thing happen with 1.4: i'll unlock it, and it wont respond then it'll restart. this happens with or without patches |
| 02:29.53 | grndslm | so does the /var partition doesn't still have a hard limit, does it?? |
| 02:29.55 | mjkjr | lol |
| 02:32.44 | rwhitby | grndslm: it sure does. |
| 02:32.52 | rwhitby | if you have lots of email, you will fill it |
| 02:33.16 | grndslm | rwhitby: what happens at that point? you get an error? |
| 02:33.21 | rwhitby | grndslm: dunno |
| 02:33.28 | mjkjr | waited almost 10 minutes for vkb theme/config patch to install so far, lol |
| 02:33.34 | mjkjr | ~holdmusic |
| 02:33.35 | infobot | do do do doo.. doo doo do.. do do do doo.. doo doo do.. dum dum dum.. de doo do.. |
| 02:45.08 | *** join/#webos-internals muesli (~muesli@amarok/developer/muesli) |
| 02:49.00 | mjkjr | egaudet: can't get vkb to render |
| 02:53.08 | Jeah | rwhitby: Hey, I tried updating after setting up a Palm profile, and it still didn't work. It turned out that I had already done that anyway. When I used MetaDoctor, I enabled the Bypass Activation, Enable First Use WiFi, Make First Use Visible, Increase Var Space, Enable Developer Mode, Enable USB Networking, Disable Upload Daemon, Remove Carrier Check, Remove Model Check, and Disable Modem Update patches. Disable Modem Update so |
| 02:55.34 | Jeah | Or anyone else, if someone else has an idea why the Update function might not work. |
| 02:58.23 | rwhitby | Jeah: dunno. |
| 02:58.48 | Jeah | rwhitby: But it probably shouldn't be the MetaDoctor patches? |
| 02:59.34 | rwhitby | Jeah: I would suggest you use as few features as you need from meta-doctor, rather than as many as you can. |
| 02:59.59 | Jeah | rwhitby: Ok. Fair enough. :) |
| 03:01.08 | Jeah | rwhitby: I'll give it a try. Obviously the next step is to re-Doctor, but I'd like to avoid having to wipe the phone again next time they release a webOS update. I'll try minimizing the patches I use. At that point, though, it wasn't clear to me what they did. So unless it was obviously something I didn't want, I went for it. |
| 03:01.34 | *** join/#webos-internals imop45 (~440cdbfb@gateway/web/freenode/x-plmgfydvifcyjztq) |
| 03:02.05 | Jeah | rwhitby: BTW, is there a reason that Preware is so particular about the OS version running in order to update apps? The App Catalog allowed me to update the Facebook app, even though Preware insisted that it didn't like my webOS version. |
| 03:02.33 | Jeah | rwhitby: Are the dependencies that picky? Or is it just easier to have a blanket policy? |
| 03:05.28 | imop45 | i believe it loads into a specific category. i.e. ipkg.wateva.org/apps/webos-1.4.0/ |
| 03:06.14 | Jeah | imop45: Is there a way that you know of to switch to an older category? |
| 03:06.32 | Jeah | imop45: Or are all the apps moved over whenever webOS/Preware are updated? |
| 03:06.41 | imop45 | Hmm, i have no idea. |
| 03:06.59 | rwhitby | Jeah: preware just passes app catalog apps over to the app catalog to make the decision on whether it can install them or not. Preware makes no such OS version constraint on apps. |
| 03:07.17 | imop45 | You could try finding an older section, then in preware manaully inputting the URL |
| 03:07.21 | rwhitby | Patches are the only things in Preware which are version specific. |
| 03:07.33 | imop45 | Ah, ok, thanks. |
| 03:07.36 | mjkjr | hears on the news that google might build new fiber optic infrastructure that will make internet 100x faster in his area =) |
| 03:07.53 | rwhitby | Jeah: Preware did not give you a message about not liking your webOS version - the app catalog gave you that message. |
| 03:08.02 | Jeah | rwhitby: Hm. That's extra strange then. I must have really screwed something up with over-patching. |
| 03:08.27 | imop45 | Jeah: i know how you feel, my pre is all weird on 1.4 |
| 03:08.35 | rwhitby | Preware cannot install a facebook app - it simply sends the appid over to the app catalog client app to install it. You can tell this cause a whole new card is opened by the app catalog app. |
| 03:08.45 | rwhitby | patching has nothing to do with this |
| 03:09.06 | rwhitby | it's all about your Palm profile. nothing more, nothing less. |
| 03:09.11 | Jeah | mjkjr: A lot of cities are competing for that one. One largish city even changed it's name to Google for a week to try to get their attention. Or is your city in the lead or something? And where are you, because I'm jealous either way. |
| 03:09.26 | Jeah | rwhitby: Hm, ok. |
| 03:09.40 | Jeah | imop45: Mine's being weird about even getting to 1.4 :) |
| 03:09.42 | Tibfib | mjkjr: man that would be saweeeet |
| 03:10.05 | imop45 | Jeah: oh snap |
| 03:11.16 | imop45 | hmm, an update about time_in_state. 600000 0 550000 2055 500000 502685 250000 0 125000 0 |
| 03:11.30 | Jeah | rwhitby: Ok. Maybe the profile's not loading fully or something. I'll mess around with that a little bit more and see if I can get any different results. It is funny, though, when I tried to update the Facebook app through Preware it didn't work, but when I went straight into the App Catalog, it did. |
| 03:11.41 | imop45 | I have no idea how it ran up to 600000 without any patches.. |
| 03:11.45 | mjkjr | just knows. His city is bigger and better than the others. :-) |
| 03:11.54 | Jeah | mjkjr: Haha, nice. |
| 03:12.05 | imop45 | mjkjr: stop bragging :p |
| 03:12.29 | Jeah | mjkjr: Well, good luck. Not that you need it, apparently :) |
| 03:15.18 | mjkjr | 100x faster is unreal, It would take 1 minute to download a 210mb webos doctor lol |
| 03:16.06 | imop45 | mjkjr: i wish theyd come to lil ole oklahoma city.. |
| 03:19.47 | imop45 | i think i might Doctor my pre again, i did it after 1.4 but geez, im my pre is still buggy. Anyone else experiencing this? |
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| 03:29.09 | rwhitby | bbl |
| 03:39.37 | *** join/#webos-internals Emon (emon@emon.rh.rit.edu) |
| 03:40.11 | Emon | Hello |
| 03:40.21 | Emon | So, how exactly is Qt running on webOS? |
| 03:41.10 | imop45 | update: 600000 5960 550000 2055 500000 677890 250000 0 125000 0 |
| 03:41.14 | bpadalino | oh hey, an RIT guy |
| 03:41.20 | Emon | >_> |
| 03:41.31 | imop45 | I ran a game. so 600 mhz is used on a standard Pre |
| 03:41.34 | bpadalino | Qt is just a framework, right ? |
| 03:41.52 | Emon | yeah |
| 03:42.17 | imop45 | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:42.18 | bpadalino | so - just compiled for arm and using SDL for graphics access i guess ? have you seen the source repository ? |
| 03:42.25 | Emon | No, I haven't |
| 03:42.33 | imop45 | Yup, 3d games up to 600 mhz. |
| 03:42.36 | Emon | that's what I was wondering -- using SDL? |
| 03:42.39 | bpadalino | http://git.webos-internals.org/ |
| 03:42.46 | Emon | I heard something about a lightweight X11 port |
| 03:42.56 | Emon | Well no, I've seen that, I meant I have not seen the source for Qt |
| 03:42.56 | bpadalino | yeah there is an x11 server |
| 03:43.00 | dtzWill | Emon: check the testing feed, X is in there :) |
| 03:43.28 | Emon | Oh, I meant in the context of Qt: Qt isn't running under X is it |
| 03:43.37 | dtzWill | Emon: nope |
| 03:43.48 | dtzWill | Emon: it has an sdl plugin that the porting guy wrote |
| 03:43.52 | Emon | ok |
| 03:43.53 | Emon | that would be horrifying :) |
| 03:44.00 | Emon | makes sense |
| 03:44.10 | dtzWill | Emon: :(. not SO horrifying :P. gtk in the x server is actually rrattthherrr responsive. |
| 03:44.27 | Emon | maybe, still though |
| 03:44.30 | Emon | SDL seems much preferable |
| 03:44.42 | dtzWill | Emon: agreed. it's just an extra layer that gets in the way if you just want the qt stuff. |
| 03:44.49 | Emon | yeah |
| 03:44.50 | dtzWill | Emon: although I do miss having a cursor :P. |
| 03:44.55 | Emon | X is great for porting existing apps and all |
| 03:45.20 | dtzWill | Emon: and it's definitely faster, at least in the current implementation of the X server. it'snot SLOW but could be a good deal faster :) |
| 03:45.28 | Emon | but I am more interested in writing new ones |
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| 03:46.40 | Emon | right |
| 03:47.13 | bpadalino | right |
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| 03:47.58 | christefano | yup |
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| 03:50.41 | castle` | not sure if this is a known bug or perhaps just me, but everytime i try to use the terminal app on my phone it results in a freeze and the phone restarts |
| 03:51.15 | christefano | castle`: the Terminal app hasn't been updated for webOS 1.4 yet |
| 03:51.22 | imop45 | terminal isnt compatible with 1.4 |
| 03:51.31 | imop45 | were stuck with terminus |
| 03:51.34 | castle` | good to know |
| 03:51.36 | castle` | thanks all |
| 03:51.50 | castle` | i saw that in preware |
| 03:51.51 | christefano | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application_talk:Terminal#Bug:_Update_to_WebOS_1.4.0 |
| 03:51.52 | castle` | didn't dl it |
| 03:52.12 | imop45 | smart reflex or scaling for speed/batt save? |
| 03:53.03 | castle` | in other news |
| 03:53.09 | castle` | tethering is working flawlessly |
| 03:53.13 | castle` | and i'm off, cya |
| 03:53.50 | imop45 | night |
| 03:55.16 | mjkjr | egaudet: i miss my vkb already, lol |
| 03:55.37 | egaudet | mjkjr, what happened |
| 03:55.57 | mjkjr | it won't render now |
| 03:56.07 | egaudet | did luna restart? |
| 03:56.20 | egaudet | you simply did update from preware? |
| 03:56.41 | mjkjr | yes, and after it wouln't render i restarted my device as well |
| 03:56.44 | egaudet | both Virtual Keyboard and VKB Default themes package show as installed in preware? |
| 03:57.56 | mjkjr | yes i simply hit update from preware, yes both installed in preware |
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| 04:12.11 | egaudet | mjkjr, do you have terminal access? |
| 04:12.18 | danns | hello, I was trying to search the forum with no luck, is there any guide for getting started in how to package a patch |
| 04:13.06 | egaudet | danns, what are you trying to accomplish? |
| 04:13.27 | mjkjr_ | egaudet: either terminus or webos qi |
| 04:13.35 | danns | egaudet: I wanted to create a patch so that the alarm clock does not vibrate |
| 04:13.43 | egaudet | if you want to submit a patch to be packaged for the webos-patches you can use the submission portal http://patches.webos-internals.org/ |
| 04:14.00 | egaudet | mjkjr_, OK what is the output of ls /media/internal/virtual-keyboard/ |
| 04:14.14 | danns | egaudet: yeah, I was in reading that portal, but I'm not sure what format to use and how to make the package |
| 04:15.02 | egaudet | All you need is a .patch file created by a unified diff tool |
| 04:15.39 | egaudet | the packaging makefiles are generated by the acceptance step after admin review of the patch adn the autobuilder packages it up and puts it into the webos-patches feed |
| 04:16.06 | mjkjr_ | egaudet, nothing? via terminus, i'll try qi |
| 04:16.20 | danns | so I would only need to submit the .patch file, right? |
| 04:16.26 | egaudet | mjkjr_, if nothing then I want to see your webos-patches.log file |
| 04:16.51 | egaudet | danns, correct |
| 04:17.14 | mjkjr_ | egaudet, ok i will email it to you in a couple minutes, should i try qi first? |
| 04:17.34 | egaudet | no |
| 04:17.44 | egaudet | it doesn't matter what you use for terminal access |
| 04:18.30 | mjkjr_ | ok =) you'll have an email in a minute |
| 04:18.34 | egaudet | also QI doesn't support dependencies so people installing the VKB from QI when it is split into 2 packages will need to install both. |
| 04:18.48 | egaudet | I prefer just using Preware |
| 04:19.48 | mjkjr_ | i prefer preware as well but i like qi as backup |
| 04:23.12 | mjkjr_ | egaudet: sent, you'lll recognize my email |
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| 04:24.54 | egaudet | oh I think I know what happened now |
| 04:25.37 | egaudet | mjkjr_, you should be able to remove and reinstall the VKB default themes package |
| 04:25.50 | mjkjr_ | ok i will try that |
| 04:26.51 | mjkjr_ | egaudet; i think that took over 10 minutes to install earlier :) |
| 04:27.04 | egaudet | yeah, sorry :P |
| 04:27.31 | egaudet | It's a necessary evil, there are a ton of image files that use the logic that needs to continuously grep the palm package database to check if the file is stock webos file |
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| 04:28.31 | egaudet | Since they are all added files and go in /media/internal/ I'll probably end up just making the package outside of aupt so the themes install fast |
| 04:29.22 | mjkjr_ | hmmm, i can't remove the VKB Default Themes Package bc of dependencies. I can only 'View It' or 'Cancel'. So should I remove VKB itself |
| 04:29.29 | egaudet | So, I can't release this VKB change like this. |
| 04:29.32 | egaudet | oil, rwhitby, ping |
| 04:29.39 | oil | aye |
| 04:29.44 | egaudet | mjkjr_, yeah |
| 04:30.19 | egaudet | oil, OK so the update logic in preware, the ordering and what not, creates a snag for me and I'm not sure the answer/solution |
| 04:31.04 | egaudet | The currently released VKB installs and removes the patch file as well as a lot of required theme images. Going forward I want to split it up so that the patch pacakge only has the patch and mvoe the theme images to another package |
| 04:31.28 | egaudet | the patch package will depend on the images package |
| 04:31.57 | egaudet | Preware sees the update, seees the dependency and orders it so that it does the following: Installs image package, updates patch package (which removes/installs) |
| 04:32.09 | egaudet | but the removal will remove the images that the image package is now handling |
| 04:32.59 | egaudet | Will it be "fixed" along with the other dependency ordering fix for patch updates? |
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| 04:43.00 | oil | wait |
| 04:43.09 | oil | sorry, im only half paying attention to the chat |
| 04:43.37 | oil | if package a depends on package b, uninstalling package a doesn't remove package b |
| 04:43.41 | oil | is that what you were asking? |
| 04:43.55 | egaudet | A is installed and needs an update, and the NEW A depends on B. Currently preware will go: Install B, remove A, install A |
| 04:44.05 | oil | right |
| 04:44.16 | egaudet | To work it has to remove A, install B, install A |
| 04:44.46 | egaudet | which will be like rremove A, remove B, install B, install A of the "fix" for patch updates except B doesn't exist at first |
| 04:49.07 | oil | pain in the ass |
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| 04:49.44 | egaudet | :P |
| 04:49.49 | egaudet | patches are so not evil |
| 04:51.13 | mjkjr_ | finally done removing packages, now restarting luna to wait another 15 minutes while they install again =) |
| 04:53.52 | egaudet | dont restart luna |
| 04:54.25 | mjkjr | what!!!? |
| 04:54.54 | egaudet | you dont need to restart luna until you want to pull things into memory to SEE the effects |
| 04:56.58 | mjkjr | that's what i heard but i guess i do it for peace of mind |
| 04:57.18 | egaudet | here's your piece of mind: it helps nothing ;-) |
| 04:57.26 | egaudet | s/piece/peace |
| 04:57.28 | egaudet | s/piece/peace/ |
| 04:57.35 | egaudet | shutup infobot I hate you |
| 04:57.52 | mjkjr | lol |
| 04:58.34 | mjkjr | i guess i like to SEE the changes and make sure everything is ok, before i make more changes |
| 05:01.35 | mjkjr | wishes he had something to pass the time while this installs, something like... |
| 05:01.43 | mjkjr | ~holdmusic |
| 05:01.43 | infobot | do do do doo.. doo doo do.. do do do doo.. doo doo do.. dum dum dum.. de doo do.. |
| 05:02.05 | mjkjr | infobot: thank you |
| 05:02.05 | infobot | mjkjr: gern geschehen |
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| 05:03.47 | mjkjr | egaudet: ok, have my vkb again =) |
| 05:04.02 | egaudet | cool |
| 05:04.30 | egaudet | good to know, now to get the themes out of the aupt slowness |
| 05:06.20 | mjkjr | speaking of, earlier you mentioned people added themes and haptic feedback. i don't really care about adding themes, but haptic feedback interests me |
| 05:09.12 | mjkjr | i know there is 'virtual-keyboard config' in QI, I see the options in there. is that the way or the only way? |
| 05:11.59 | mjkjr | nvm i found the wiki : D |
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| 05:20.44 | trim81 | hey guys |
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| 05:22.09 | mjkjr | goodnight all |
| 05:22.30 | bpadalino | dst is killing me :( |
| 05:24.14 | imop45 | hmm, have a weird prob. MSG app isnt working, and email isnt loading |
| 05:28.13 | imop45 | I some opinions.. What CPU patch do y'all use? |
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| 07:18.22 | rwhitby | re |
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| 12:41.40 | sepisultrum | I'm looking for jabber support for webos, I've found Greg Roll's git repos but don't have a cross environment. Are there prebuilt packages available? |
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| 16:12.30 | ghost_of_zsoc | anyone know what the new pandora update does? |
| 16:12.55 | halfhalo_T400 | drugs you and steals your kidney? |
| 16:12.59 | halfhalo_T400 | no, wait,thats me |
| 16:13.07 | ghost_of_zsoc | chuqui: morning |
| 16:13.16 | ghost_of_zsoc | halfhalo_T400: ok charlie |
| 16:13.42 | halfhalo_T400 | hehehe |
| 16:13.51 | halfhalo_T400 | goes to watch charlie the unicorn |
| 16:14.58 | *** join/#webos-internals thadood (~thadood@c-75-64-178-167.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 16:16.48 | halfhalo_T400 | its time to go learn about advanced data scructures! How fun! |
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| 16:17.57 | zsoc | woo, random luna restarts ftw |
| 16:18.17 | halfhalo_T400 | oh, I had one happen to me recently |
| 16:18.36 | halfhalo_T400 | while I was trying to fully discharge my new battery |
| 16:19.05 | halfhalo_T400 | it sorta kinda made the phone go from 53% to 0% in seconds |
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| 16:45.50 | chuqui | morning, all. |
| 16:45.56 | halfhalo_T400 | murnin |
| 16:47.47 | jacques | morning |
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| 16:54.53 | sepisultrum | I'm trying to install Messaging plugins. The installation of messagingsysfiles and messagingpatch went well but the plugins themselves won't install because of a missing dependency org.webosinternals.messaging. How to fix this? |
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| 17:28.52 | atlanta | hey hey |
| 17:32.16 | zsoc | trololo |
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| 17:33.59 | karotte_exe | hi |
| 17:34.12 | halfhalo_T400 | hello |
| 17:34.16 | karotte_exe | ich have three idears for the palm! |
| 17:34.58 | karotte_exe | 1. a patch for applauncher to view it in wide screen |
| 17:35.12 | karotte_exe | 2. a microphone app! |
| 17:35.34 | karotte_exe | 3. a app to share files from palm to palm |
| 17:35.48 | karotte_exe | what do you think about? |
| 17:36.32 | halfhalo_T400 | 1. I could see how that would be nice |
| 17:36.45 | halfhalo_T400 | 2. An app to do what exactly? |
| 17:37.07 | halfhalo_T400 | 3. Sorta like... email? or something using the Mojo messaging service? |
| 17:37.26 | karotte_exe | nono! |
| 17:37.50 | karotte_exe | ich toughtone app to record soinds, like a microphone! |
| 17:38.13 | karotte_exe | and a app to share files over bluetooth or wlan from palm to palm |
| 17:38.36 | karotte_exe | but i can't programm it :( because i habe no time. |
| 17:39.00 | karotte_exe | that aresuggestions for you, to inspirate you! |
| 17:39.45 | halfhalo_T400 | Well, considering there is no access to the microphone yet, thats not going to happen soon, and as for number 2, can't do it natively over bluetooth yet, so the only way would be a middleman server or using xmpp |
| 17:40.43 | karotte_exe | hmpf! that isn't nice :( |
| 17:42.38 | karotte_exe | ahm, wouldn't it be possible to make a lan with palm to share files? like with a windows by games? one man is open a server and a other can join it! then you could share files |
| 17:43.19 | halfhalo_T400 | as of right now? no |
| 17:43.37 | halfhalo_T400 | there would need to be either a plugin built or a version of the sdk with it built in |
| 17:43.39 | karotte_exe | :( |
| 17:43.45 | karotte_exe | kk |
| 17:44.00 | karotte_exe | i understand |
| 17:47.18 | *** part/#webos-internals karotte_exe (~wIRCer@89.204.137.66) |
| 17:47.56 | *** join/#webos-internals halfhalo_T400_ (~halfhalo_@130.166.209.10) |
| 17:49.20 | sepisultrum | Where can I get org.webosinternals.messaging ? |
| 17:50.03 | atlanta | they need to release the mic api alreadu |
| 17:50.14 | halfhalo_T400_ | yup |
| 17:50.46 | zsoc | there are two methods of recording on the pre |
| 17:50.53 | zsoc | but no official way |
| 17:51.54 | zsoc | although technically the video recorder records audio... |
| 17:51.54 | halfhalo_T400_ | official=good |
| 17:51.54 | atlanta | zsoc: yup yup |
| 17:51.54 | halfhalo_T400_ | not official=better |
| 17:51.55 | zsoc | not in #webos-internals :) |
| 17:51.56 | atlanta | lol zsoc he has it all twisted doesnt he |
| 17:51.56 | halfhalo_T400_ | did I stutter? |
| 17:52.05 | PuffTheMagic | morning ladies |
| 17:52.32 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: umm so |
| 17:52.33 | zsoc | DID I STUDDA |
| 17:52.38 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: are you saying a recording app is still needed |
| 17:52.40 | halfhalo_T400_ | just a tad |
| 17:52.41 | PuffTheMagic | that would be easy to bang out |
| 17:52.42 | zsoc | wat? |
| 17:53.02 | zsoc | PuffTheMagic: yeah, everyone is lazy. you could do the service in 5 seconds |
| 17:53.04 | PuffTheMagic | audio recorder app using gst |
| 17:53.10 | zsoc | the mojo I'm not familiar with tho |
| 17:53.15 | PuffTheMagic | pick your codec ;D |
| 17:53.32 | PuffTheMagic | feels a lisp service coming |
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| 17:54.03 | halfhalo_T400_ | i like mojo |
| 17:54.07 | egaudet_wirc | this is #webos-internals, we don't need official SDK API to do stuff |
| 17:54.10 | halfhalo_T400_ | its nice and shiny |
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| 17:54.59 | egaudet_wirc | so mic is NOT out of the question and neither is most anything else you can think of ;-) It's just a matter of an internals developer wanting it enough to do it :P |
| 17:55.23 | egaudet_wirc | or anyone else who wants to develop it can use the WIDK for example |
| 17:56.01 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: common-lisp= |
| 17:56.10 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: yup |
| 17:56.23 | sepisultrum | nice |
| 17:56.27 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: sbcl? |
| 17:56.32 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: or ecl? |
| 17:56.37 | sepisultrum | or clisp? |
| 17:57.00 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: sbcl cause i want to use buildapp to build single binaries |
| 17:57.32 | egaudet_wirc | http://xkcd.com/224/ |
| 17:57.56 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: i have to whip up the cffi first |
| 17:57.57 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: if sbcl only had a tree shaker |
| 17:58.07 | PuffTheMagic | but that will take 5 min |
| 17:58.57 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: because an sbcl instance takes about 50MB, that's quite a lot for a phone |
| 17:59.02 | zsoc | PuffTheMagic: afaict, only palmaudioencoder uses the dsp properly (er.. at all) |
| 17:59.10 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: really? |
| 17:59.18 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: im sorta new to CL |
| 17:59.25 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: i have to use Lispworks for school |
| 17:59.41 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: well it includes the whole compiler and everything |
| 17:59.42 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: idk what is best for embedded |
| 17:59.52 | sepisultrum | but you don't have that problem with ecl for example |
| 17:59.54 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: im open to input |
| 18:00.18 | sepisultrum | I used to be involved a little in stumpwm |
| 18:00.23 | sepisultrum | a windowmanager in cl |
| 18:01.14 | sepisultrum | http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html there is no arm? |
| 18:01.21 | PuffTheMagic | shit |
| 18:01.37 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: so I would have to make a binding for liblunaservice in CL, but in lisp its like orders of magnitude easier to make a binding |
| 18:01.58 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: http://ecls.sourceforge.net/ |
| 18:02.32 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: is ecls different that emacs cl? |
| 18:02.37 | PuffTheMagic | or are they the same |
| 18:02.42 | bpadalino|work | isn't emacs already compiled for the pre ? |
| 18:02.54 | sepisultrum | emacs is c and elisp |
| 18:03.12 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: yes, ecl is embeddable cl |
| 18:03.21 | sepisultrum | has nothing to do with elisp afaik |
| 18:03.31 | sepisultrum | I think it compile to c |
| 18:03.32 | PuffTheMagic | ok cool i will check out ecls |
| 18:03.35 | halfhalo_T400_ | I say do it in binary |
| 18:03.37 | PuffTheMagic | thanks for that tip |
| 18:03.39 | sepisultrum | as intermediate language |
| 18:04.42 | PuffTheMagic | nice it can build standalone bins :D |
| 18:05.08 | sepisultrum | well, traditional cl environments normally suport dumping images |
| 18:05.12 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: what did you use for graphics in that wm? |
| 18:05.21 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: clx |
| 18:05.34 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: it's a X11 protocol implementation in cl |
| 18:05.40 | PuffTheMagic | yeah i've seen it |
| 18:05.55 | sepisultrum | http://www.nongnu.org/stumpwm/ |
| 18:05.59 | zsoc | So I wonder if/when luna will support a blitting interface (maybe even through SDL) |
| 18:06.10 | PuffTheMagic | :D |
| 18:06.10 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum CL on the pre is gonna be sweet |
| 18:06.25 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: would be nice :) |
| 18:06.44 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: If you want to create a project for this, I'm in |
| 18:06.59 | egaudet_wirc | how long does the lisp infatuation last? |
| 18:07.04 | PuffTheMagic | for ecl in general or the audio recorder |
| 18:07.19 | PuffTheMagic | egaudet_wirc: i am going to be writing lisp the rest of my life |
| 18:07.24 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v egaudet_work] by ChanServ |
| 18:07.25 | sepisultrum | lisp on the pre in general :) |
| 18:07.27 | PuffTheMagic | cause of ACT-R |
| 18:07.39 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: haha, you do ACT-R |
| 18:07.41 | egaudet_work | http://xkcd.com/297/ |
| 18:07.43 | PuffTheMagic | :D |
| 18:07.53 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: starting to |
| 18:07.55 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: I've worked a little with ACT-R for python |
| 18:08.11 | sepisultrum | Pretty cool theroy |
| 18:08.13 | sepisultrum | theory |
| 18:08.13 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: just started a cognitive science phd prog |
| 18:08.42 | PuffTheMagic | and the lab im am part of does lots of modeling |
| 18:09.02 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: I'm doing EE, but worked a little in a project with cogsci people |
| 18:09.28 | PuffTheMagic | what affiliation was that? |
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| 18:09.43 | PuffTheMagic | institution |
| 18:09.43 | PuffTheMagic | w/e |
| 18:09.49 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: http://www.cotesys.org/ |
| 18:10.06 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: but I didn't really finish anything ;) |
| 18:10.28 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: don't know if they continue this ACT-R stuff |
| 18:11.00 | PuffTheMagic | well it looks like they robots so.... |
| 18:11.06 | PuffTheMagic | i doubt they use ACT-R |
| 18:11.16 | PuffTheMagic | cause people that do robots dont care if things are plausible |
| 18:11.19 | chrisa | I haven't paid much attention here lately |
| 18:11.20 | chrisa | hm |
| 18:12.16 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: well, it's a big government founded project with many sub-projects. The project I worked for was involved in modeling assemby workers |
| 18:12.50 | sepisultrum | but as said, I wasn't there long, and the part I was involved was more of a failure ;) |
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| 18:16.03 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: ecl_0.9i-2 is in optware |
| 18:16.39 | PuffTheMagic | which means it can be in preware as soon as rwhitby wakes up |
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| 18:18.32 | PuffTheMagic | but the versioning seems to be different that ecls |
| 18:19.42 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: yeah |
| 18:19.48 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: don't get thet |
| 18:19.50 | sepisultrum | that |
| 18:19.56 | PuffTheMagic | what is the difference? |
| 18:20.48 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: they might have changed the name and versioning scheme. or it might be a different project |
| 18:21.01 | PuffTheMagic | fork probably |
| 18:21.17 | PuffTheMagic | ecls is in portage i will just build it my self |
| 18:21.58 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: just reading the docs |
| 18:30.43 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: according to the manual I just checked out, arm is not supported :( |
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| 18:31.23 | PuffTheMagic | i know i googled and saw an article about CL on iphone |
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| 18:31.46 | PuffTheMagic | yeah he used ecl |
| 18:32.20 | PuffTheMagic | http://lambdajive.wordpress.com/2009/03/27/common-lisp-on-iphone-ecl-comes-through-at-last/ |
| 18:33.43 | sepisultrum | hmm, the docs might be old |
| 18:34.50 | sampson | so what's so special about qt |
| 18:34.59 | sampson | i tried to find any app i'd ever think of using |
| 18:35.02 | sampson | and they all look horrible |
| 18:36.06 | PuffTheMagic | qt4 is nice |
| 18:36.10 | PuffTheMagic | qt3 sucked |
| 18:36.17 | sampson | what's on the pre |
| 18:36.24 | PuffTheMagic | nothing |
| 18:36.28 | PuffTheMagic | qt aint on pre |
| 18:36.31 | zsoc | sampson: I like it |
| 18:36.32 | sampson | qt was ported to webos |
| 18:36.39 | zsoc | it looks desktopish, comfortable |
| 18:36.40 | PuffTheMagic | well its not on the pre |
| 18:36.46 | PuffTheMagic | might be in preware though |
| 18:37.03 | sampson | http://www.upvery.com/9627-qt-ported-to-palm-pre-and-a-new-development-kit.html |
| 18:37.06 | sampson | it is |
| 18:37.11 | sampson | zsoc: yeah but i mean i looked at apps that use qt |
| 18:37.25 | sampson | and all of them are like applets to handle network config in linux or something as equally useless |
| 18:37.36 | sepisultrum | sampson: have a look at kde4 |
| 18:37.39 | zsoc | shrugs |
| 18:37.39 | sepisultrum | and it's apps |
| 18:37.55 | PuffTheMagic | that article sounds like a 4y/o wrote it |
| 18:38.00 | zsoc | I don't know the whole story. Mr. black would beg to differ I bet |
| 18:38.23 | sepisultrum | sampson: qt4 is great, the look is very customizable. Also have a look at maemo/meego, they now use kt4 as standard toolkkit |
| 18:38.40 | PuffTheMagic | i used to be a gnome/gtk fanboy |
| 18:38.44 | PuffTheMagic | for bout 8 years |
| 18:38.51 | PuffTheMagic | but i switched to kde4/qt4 |
| 18:38.53 | PuffTheMagic | recently |
| 18:38.56 | PuffTheMagic | havent looked back |
| 18:39.00 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: me too, until I tried programing for gtk ;) |
| 18:39.09 | sepisultrum | don't use kde4 though |
| 18:39.16 | sepisultrum | enlightenment17 :) |
| 18:39.17 | PuffTheMagic | i've programmed gtk before its pretty nice actually |
| 18:39.24 | PuffTheMagic | and i;'ve done e17 |
| 18:39.28 | PuffTheMagic | which i hope to do more of |
| 18:39.33 | PuffTheMagic | im afraid of qt |
| 18:39.34 | PuffTheMagic | c++ |
| 18:39.35 | PuffTheMagic | eww |
| 18:39.59 | sepisultrum | yeah, don't like c++ either, but you don't need to use the bad parts of c++ if you don't want to |
| 18:41.43 | PuffTheMagic | its just 1 more lang i dont have time to learn |
| 18:41.48 | egaudet_work | overloaded operators are the awesome |
| 18:41.49 | PuffTheMagic | and qt is like its own lang |
| 18:45.52 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1435432529445611697# this is why you want to use qt4 :) NOT |
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| 18:47.24 | PuffTheMagic | wow |
| 18:47.45 | PuffTheMagic | people be posting some awsome vids lately |
| 18:47.50 | sepisultrum | it gets worse ;) |
| 18:48.12 | PuffTheMagic | lalalla alalala lolololoooooooo troooloo |
| 18:48.16 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: :D |
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| 18:49.37 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: according to someone in #lisp ecl should work |
| 18:50.12 | sampson | i put ubuntu on my x200 |
| 18:50.19 | halfhalo_T400_ | thats a horrible idea |
| 18:50.20 | sampson | as per usual the fan never slows down and it sounds like my laptop is going to take off |
| 18:50.30 | sampson | so i deleted it |
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| 18:51.14 | atlanta | lisp and ecl what would that be used for |
| 18:51.15 | atlanta | enlighten me |
| 18:53.29 | bpadalino|work | starting the signs of cloud enabled cognitive computing via smartphones |
| 18:53.42 | bpadalino|work | and reducing the number of free parenthesis in the universe |
| 18:54.05 | atlanta | lol gtocha |
| 18:54.06 | sepisultrum | atlanta: rebuild webos ;) then save the world |
| 18:54.19 | atlanta | sounds like a plan |
| 18:54.38 | atlanta | im rebuilding mine to take over bank accounts and the world at the same time |
| 18:55.51 | atlanta | using c# and mono |
| 18:55.55 | atlanta | lol |
| 18:57.00 | *** part/#webos-internals motp (~bbu@calvin.penguin.de) |
| 18:59.00 | PuffTheMagic | kicks atlanta for saying c# |
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| 19:01.25 | Mousey | coctalthorpe? |
| 19:03.41 | zsoc | atlanta: I wouldn't say that in a logged channel |
| 19:04.09 | atlanta | zsoc: it will be all good |
| 19:04.25 | atlanta | freedom of speech is lovely |
| 19:04.35 | atlanta | PuffTheMagic: lol |
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| 19:05.10 | zsoc | is it me, or are there no webos apps for banking (checking/moving money) OR stock trading? |
| 19:05.25 | zsoc | atlanta: free speech? there is no free speech anywhere on this planet |
| 19:05.47 | atlanta | zsoc: its not you |
| 19:05.51 | atlanta | but there is a intuit app |
| 19:05.58 | atlanta | to charge people for work |
| 19:06.06 | gkatsev | PuffTheMagic: c# is better than java. |
| 19:06.48 | loot_ | gkatsev: what terrible parallel universe are you speaking of? |
| 19:07.28 | gkatsev | loot_: c# is better than java. it is pretty much the same in pretty much all aspects, except the ones where c# is better at |
| 19:07.49 | loot_ | thats entirely opinion sir |
| 19:08.28 | loot_ | the small amount of experience i had with C# i learned that they did make some things incredibly easy but at the same time they managed to make already simple things exceedingly complicated |
| 19:08.29 | gkatsev | ok, at the very least it is as bad as java. |
| 19:08.32 | zsoc | c# and java are equally horrid. |
| 19:08.56 | gkatsev | but from what ive seen of c# and the features they added like lambdas and stuff make it better than java |
| 19:09.07 | zsoc | but heavily abstracted languages are generally pretty bad. |
| 19:09.39 | loot_ | .net makes jack a dull boy |
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| 19:10.42 | atlanta | lol |
| 19:10.48 | atlanta | i started a war |
| 19:12.09 | *** join/#webos-internals halfhalo (~halfhalo@130.166.191.106) |
| 19:13.16 | atlanta | somebody told me that would happen |
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| 19:15.22 | gkatsev | atlanta: look what youve done |
| 19:15.28 | gkatsev | *at |
| 19:15.31 | atlanta | :-) |
| 19:15.46 | atlanta | i thought it would be funny since they were talking about lisp and ecl |
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| 19:16.23 | gkatsev | scheme is pretty sweet though |
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| 19:16.46 | gkatsev | javascript is almost like scheme just with java syntax and a stupid name |
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| 19:25.26 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: so yeah looks like we should be able to get ecl to work with some lovin |
| 19:25.34 | PuffTheMagic | sepisultrum: and im down for this project too :D |
| 19:27.47 | sepisultrum | PuffTheMagic: ok, I wonder if the changes on the iphone port are back in the main repo allready |
| 19:27.58 | PuffTheMagic | probably |
| 19:28.02 | PuffTheMagic | i was trying 9.12 |
| 19:28.10 | PuffTheMagic | but i think i will go to 10.x |
| 19:30.01 | sepisultrum | can't git clone http://floatopian.com/~reddaly/ecl/ecl/.git/ anyway |
| 19:40.22 | zsoc | so what does this project do |
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| 19:54.04 | zsoc | wats the current state of duke3d? sound work? controls ok? |
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| 20:08.51 | jacques | does the duke3d wiki page tell which files are needed and where to put them yet? |
| 20:09.49 | cal__ | anyone know how to adjust the bitpool for bluetooth on the pre? I am getting horrible crackling sounds with some songs using rocketfish bluetooth headset. |
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| 20:16.06 | dtzWill | abiword on pre :D hahaha |
| 20:16.27 | dtzWill | (just had to share :[ ) |
| 20:16.44 | gkatsev | someone port vlc. its qt and sdl |
| 20:17.25 | halfhalo | DO IT |
| 20:17.26 | halfhalo | NOW |
| 20:17.28 | sepisultrum | haha |
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| 20:17.54 | sepisultrum | jacques: have a look |
| 20:18.09 | jacques | sepisultrum: have a look at what? |
| 20:18.19 | sepisultrum | jacques: at the wiki page |
| 20:20.38 | jacques | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Duke3D currently has no info on which data files are needed nor where they need to go. it says look at the ReadMe.txt which is installed by the package, but why not also include that info on the wiki page? |
| 20:21.01 | sepisultrum | jacques: it's a wiki |
| 20:21.32 | sepisultrum | jacques: you could just add it or recommend it in the discussion section |
| 20:22.23 | sepisultrum | jacques: on the other hand, it might be better to keep it out because of consistency |
| 20:22.58 | jacques | it would be nice to know which files are required without having to install the package first |
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| 21:51.54 | oc80z | Palm Pre FREE @ Radioshack |
| 21:53.01 | jhojho | watches the kerfuffle from the precentral article about overclocking |
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| 21:54.46 | zsoc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:55.04 | jhojho | zsoc: maybe it needs to run webos |
| 21:55.27 | jhojho | that article really is quite badly written |
| 21:55.39 | zsoc | jhojho: that's reasonable advice. |
| 21:56.16 | jhojho | heh. never had to work on one so cant help you there. |
| 21:56.37 | jhojho | maybe you can try #boilers-internals =) |
| 21:57.11 | cryptk|work | zsoc: just put it in debug mode to get more verbose output |
| 21:57.19 | cryptk|work | that is how I usually start troubleshooting things |
| 21:57.55 | cryptk|work | maybe run it with "hydrotherm -v"? |
| 21:57.57 | zsoc | cryptk|work: well I bypassed the thermostat controls and forced water into it... which it seems to heat just fine. |
| 21:58.12 | cryptk|work | could be a bad solonoid then |
| 21:58.21 | cryptk|work | if it uses solonoids to regulate the flow of water |
| 21:58.43 | zsoc | Yeah, I may have accidentally let the pressure over 15psi tho... I might end up with a wet boiler room |
| 21:58.44 | cryptk|work | or did you not bypass the solonoid and just use a jumper wire in place of the thermostat? |
| 21:58.55 | zsoc | er, no, there's actually a lever. |
| 21:58.58 | cryptk|work | ahh |
| 21:59.03 | zsoc | it's on the solonoid i think. |
| 21:59.11 | cryptk|work | ok, so you just manually flipped the lever and bypassed the whole thing |
| 21:59.15 | zsoc | basically. |
| 21:59.29 | cryptk|work | it is probably either built into the solonoid or located very close to it |
| 21:59.38 | zsoc | Why isn't everything in a house controlled by something linux/C based that's opensource? |
| 22:00.01 | cryptk|work | I would try manually toggling the solonoid with a jumper wire, but be very careful, some of them run at high voltages and even just 110v is enough to kill you |
| 22:00.14 | cryptk|work | (READ: call a professional if in any doubt) |
| 22:00.41 | zsoc | Electric I am fully certified in |
| 22:00.45 | cryptk|work | but it is the end of my time at work and I have to go home before they give me more work |
| 22:00.51 | zsoc | That's the only reason I'd even consider taking to a project like this |
| 22:00.53 | zsoc | kk, peace |
| 22:00.55 | cryptk|work | try manually tripping the solonoid then |
| 22:00.58 | zsoc | will do |
| 22:01.03 | cryptk|work | if that works I would look at the thermostat |
| 22:01.53 | *** join/#webos-internals trim81 (~chatzilla@96-40-156-77.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com) |
| 22:03.54 | jhojho | btw does anyone know if unixpsycho has released the source to his patch yet? |
| 22:08.58 | *** join/#webos-internals nekrox (~nekro@unaffiliated/nekrox) |
| 22:09.59 | zsoc | jhojho: er.. the patch is pretty straight forward... if i'm not mistaken, the alpha/beta testers have it |
| 22:10.57 | jhojho | I'm on the test list and have not seen it which is why I was asking if i missed it somehow |
| 22:11.14 | PuffTheMagic | so my boss is letting me pick between 1 expensive mac monitor or 2 dells :D |
| 22:11.22 | PuffTheMagic | i dont think this is evena question |
| 22:11.29 | PuffTheMagic | 2 24" dells would be hot |
| 22:11.54 | zsoc | PuffTheMagic: you have a job? |
| 22:12.05 | zsoc | and what resolution are the dells? |
| 22:12.10 | PuffTheMagic | well sorta |
| 22:12.13 | PuffTheMagic | i get a stipend |
| 22:12.15 | zsoc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:12.16 | PuffTheMagic | to do research |
| 22:12.25 | PuffTheMagic | and my school is paid for |
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| 22:12.38 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: its was 1080p res |
| 22:12.57 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: it could be any monitor really |
| 22:13.04 | PuffTheMagic | since the Apple monitor is like 800 |
| 22:13.10 | zsoc | the AOC 1920x1080 are hot, i would say that's not even a question |
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| 22:13.32 | zsoc | PuffTheMagic: BUT IT WONT HAVE A DISPLAY_PORT! OH NOES!111111o1eneon1 |
| 22:13.47 | jhojho | get the 2 dells |
| 22:14.12 | jhojho | maybe spend a little more to get IPS panels if you can find a deal somewhere |
| 22:14.17 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: should i get AOC over DELL? |
| 22:14.37 | jhojho | what are you using to power the displays? |
| 22:14.58 | zsoc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:15.14 | PuffTheMagic | i wouldnt be running dual display |
| 22:15.21 | PuffTheMagic | if i get 2 i would get to take one home |
| 22:15.24 | PuffTheMagic | and have one for my office |
| 22:16.28 | zsoc | haha nice |
| 22:16.34 | zsoc | PuffTheMagic: do you have the model of the dell you're looking at? |
| 22:17.04 | zsoc | usually starts with an E |
| 22:17.06 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: no im not looking at anything particular yet |
| 22:17.20 | PuffTheMagic | i just got out of a meeting with my boos |
| 22:17.21 | PuffTheMagic | boss |
| 22:17.23 | zsoc | ah |
| 22:17.27 | PuffTheMagic | and we googled for like 2 min |
| 22:17.34 | PuffTheMagic | when we saw how mucht eh 24" apple lcd was |
| 22:17.52 | PuffTheMagic | then we looked up dell and ai shiad shit i could get 2 |
| 22:17.57 | PuffTheMagic | and he said sure :D |
| 22:19.22 | zsoc | PuffTheMagic: for $800 you could get 4 of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824160049 |
| 22:19.41 | PuffTheMagic | he doesnt really want to spend $800 :D |
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| 22:20.19 | zsoc | ah i see lol |
| 22:20.21 | PuffTheMagic | do they have bigger than 24" |
| 22:20.24 | zsoc | of course |
| 22:20.38 | PuffTheMagic | cause i think 2 is the max |
| 22:20.38 | zsoc | The differences between televisions and computer monitors these days are... well.. not much. |
| 22:20.40 | PuffTheMagic | i could get |
| 22:20.51 | PuffTheMagic | so myabe i could push put he size a little on the cheaper ones |
| 22:21.21 | PuffTheMagic | :D |
| 22:21.22 | PuffTheMagic | newegg dont list anything bigger than 24 |
| 22:21.23 | PuffTheMagic | for AOC |
| 22:22.01 | PuffTheMagic | oooh |
| 22:22.03 | PuffTheMagic | v27t |
| 22:22.04 | PuffTheMagic | :D |
| 22:22.11 | PuffTheMagic | LED lcd |
| 22:22.30 | zsoc | Heh, not sure if they do 1080p on stuff bigger than a 23", past that they are "TVs" with tuners and what not (of course they also have hdmi and vga) |
| 22:22.39 | PuffTheMagic | ahh thats a tv |
| 22:23.02 | zsoc | Like I said tho, that's a paper thin argument ;) |
| 22:23.09 | zsoc | But yeah, I think the biggest "monitor" is a http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824160042 |
| 22:23.12 | marajin | the difference between computers and TVs is resolution |
| 22:23.19 | zsoc | which Is actually _cheaper_ somehow at 23" |
| 22:23.23 | zsoc | marajin: they are both 1920x1080 |
| 22:23.36 | marajin | if you got a 24" PC screen you can have 1920x1200, 24 -> 90 on a TV is still only 1920x1080 |
| 22:24.05 | marajin | I actually have a 22" 1920x1080 monitor as I like pixel density |
| 22:24.29 | zsoc | marajin: That's true, but 1920x1080 is rather a standard these days. I'm not sure what the native resolution is for optimal computer viewing (ie 3 feet) but I think it's something like 24" |
| 22:24.29 | PuffTheMagic | zsoc: yeah i think that 24" AOC will work :D |
| 22:24.55 | marajin | 24" is right yeah, I've done bunches of experiments with 20, 22, 24, 26 |
| 22:25.03 | marajin | 24" with about 1080 or 1920x1200 is puuurrfect |
| 22:25.22 | PuffTheMagic | does the AOC have a camera built in? |
| 22:25.37 | marajin | PuffTheMagic: get a dell 24" multitouch screen? :D |
| 22:25.56 | PuffTheMagic | ohh |
| 22:26.09 | marajin | yes they make them, and they work rather well |
| 22:27.06 | marajin | ah sorry, they're 22 but hey :) multitouch! |
| 22:27.19 | marajin | acer do a 23 |
| 22:27.44 | marajin | which I can buy fooor.. **mental math** 450 bucks or less |
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| 22:28.23 | marajin | and that's 1080p |
| 22:29.47 | marajin | I sense a disturbance in the google-fu.. :p |
| 22:31.54 | zsoc | haha |
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| 22:32.12 | zsoc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:32.18 | zsoc | JayCanuck: mornin' |
| 22:32.22 | JayCanuck | morning |
| 22:32.59 | marajin | zsoc: he's suddenly very quiet :p |
| 22:33.12 | zsoc | Anyone familiar with nautilus' dropbox extension? |
| 22:33.33 | JayCanuck | wish I were |
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| 22:35.24 | marajin | Well I'm goin' to bed |
| 22:35.31 | marajin | g'luck with your screen hunt PuffTheMagic |
| 22:35.43 | PuffTheMagic | thanks |
| 22:35.43 | PuffTheMagic | night |
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| 22:36.32 | marajin | night zsoc |
| 22:36.36 | zsoc | later |
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| 23:04.40 | zsoc | Now that wifi enabled printers are rather ubiquitous... how far into cups has anyone looked? |
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| 23:07.19 | gpgp | hello anyone know where current info on rooting under linux can be found ? |
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| 23:07.39 | gpgp | everything i read seems outdated |
| 23:08.41 | bpadalino | if you have libusb, you should be able to use the novacom replacement |
| 23:08.53 | gpgp | what is the replacement ? |
| 23:08.53 | bpadalino | http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=tools/precom-progs.git;a=summary |
| 23:08.57 | gpgp | ty |
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| 23:15.08 | bpadalino | figure it out gpgp ? |
| 23:15.20 | gpgp | not quite |
| 23:15.24 | bpadalino | whoops |
| 23:15.25 | bpadalino | :( |
| 23:15.37 | gpgp | i see the link but i dont know how to use it yet |
| 23:16.01 | gpgp | so it is an open source version of novacom, i see that |
| 23:16.19 | bpadalino | use git to pull the repo down .. |
| 23:16.49 | bpadalino | then compile the source into an executable .. there is a makefile there |
| 23:16.56 | gpgp | ok |
| 23:17.17 | gpgp | thank |
| 23:17.19 | gpgp | s |
| 23:19.17 | mjkjr | wonders if anyone here has tried the zagg invisible shield, trying to feel better about the $40 just spent |
| 23:19.37 | gpgp | i must say i havent seen any instructions even near that method, glad i came to the source |
| 23:19.46 | angel12 | invisible shields are nice mjkjr just not work that much IMO |
| 23:20.05 | angel12 | prolly didnt help justifying did i? |
| 23:20.35 | *** join/#webos-internals bhern (~bhern@irc.angui.sh) |
| 23:22.27 | mjkjr | angel12: lol, no not really. I was actually going to get a regular screen protector and gave in to the full body shield |
| 23:22.45 | angel12 | it'll keep it lookin nice at least ;) |
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| 23:23.40 | zsoc | I'm ok with zagg stuff |
| 23:23.56 | *** join/#webos-internals sb107 (~80ede6c2@gateway/web/freenode/x-okebkynoqiollnvh) |
| 23:24.17 | mjkjr | yeah, i'm very picky so a scratch would drive me crazy |
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| 23:26.05 | mjkjr | i was going to install it myself but this full body one looked like a pain. i paid the extra $12 so if it went wrong it would be bestbuys fault =) |
| 23:26.58 | angel12 | lol |
| 23:27.05 | angel12 | not a bad idea |
| 23:27.19 | sb107 | Hey, does anyone here know where I can learn more about what would be involved to get the pre to work with and ipod-capable car stereo system? |
| 23:27.36 | zsoc | sb107: a 3.5mm stereo patch cable? |
| 23:27.41 | mjkjr | lol |
| 23:27.49 | sb107 | well yeah but I have a nice stereo system |
| 23:27.53 | angel12 | sb107: pretty involved if you mean by using the 30 pin connecter |
| 23:27.54 | sb107 | and the patch cable makes it sound like crap |
| 23:27.57 | sb107 | no bass, etc |
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| 23:28.09 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v EvanDotPro] by ChanServ |
| 23:28.09 | sb107 | yeah |
| 23:28.12 | angel12 | sb107: get a new patch cable |
| 23:28.21 | angel12 | or just buy a bluetooth capable stereo |
| 23:28.26 | sb107 | haha I am under the impression it will never work though |
| 23:28.46 | sb107 | well won't everything over the 3.5mm jack be 2 channel? |
| 23:29.01 | zsoc | Patch cable makes it sound bad? That doesn't sound right. |
| 23:29.06 | sb107 | whereas if I put the device in USB mode (my stereo can play files from a usb frive) it sounds much better |
| 23:29.12 | sb107 | could be a crappy cable |
| 23:29.37 | angel12 | i would get a new one |
| 23:29.38 | zsoc | Could be. Also, I'm not sure of the output of the jack, but I wouldn't have the volume all the way up on the Pre, maybe one click down or two. |
| 23:29.40 | mjkjr | sb107: i disagree, i have a very nice system in my car and sounds fine. if you have aux inputs on your cd player you connect the cable to those and then in the 3.5 jack on the pre. sounds like cd quality |
| 23:29.46 | zsoc | I've gotten pretty good sound out of my headphone jack tho |
| 23:31.36 | gpgp | ok i am a dummy, dont know how to use git |
| 23:32.00 | sb107 | hmm ok, ill try that then |
| 23:32.03 | sb107 | thanks |
| 23:32.09 | rwhitby | gpgp: which host OS platform? |
| 23:32.22 | gpgp | linux ubuntu karmic |
| 23:32.24 | mjkjr | so who's patch is the change_user_agent in testing? The maintainer is webos-internals? |
| 23:32.46 | zsoc | mjkjr: obviously someone who doesn't want to be named ;) |
| 23:32.57 | zsoc | gpgp: what are you trying to do exactly? |
| 23:33.11 | gpgp | install the replacement for novacom |
| 23:33.20 | gpgp | or root a pre from linux |
| 23:33.54 | angel12 | gpgp: why? cant you just put it in dev mode? (webos newb) |
| 23:34.18 | zsoc | gpgp: git clone git://git.webos-internals.org/tools/precom-progs.git |
| 23:34.30 | gpgp | ah clone thanks |
| 23:34.46 | chrisa | augh 'root' |
| 23:34.57 | gpgp | i am not sure why exatly all the info i read seems out of date |
| 23:35.25 | zsoc | chrisa: He meant to say "gain a root shell". I just sed that phrase in my head every time I see someone say "root", it helps me through the day |
| 23:35.42 | gpgp | the phone is in dev mode i want to ssh from linux but already have virtual box OSE in use on this machine |
| 23:35.57 | mjkjr | lol |
| 23:36.00 | zsoc | gpgp: build what you just downloaded with git, run novacom -t open tty:// |
| 23:36.06 | gpgp | i know it is wrong and annoying but is the phrase most are using |
| 23:36.29 | rwhitby | gpgp: where are you reading your info from? |
| 23:36.35 | rwhitby | gpgp: exactly which instructions are you following? |
| 23:36.36 | gpgp | precentral |
| 23:36.43 | zsoc | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:36.57 | chrisa | Just google 'preware install' and you'll get the wiki entry |
| 23:37.02 | gpgp | thats why i am here--want curretn info |
| 23:37.04 | chrisa | and it'll handle all of that |
| 23:37.07 | rwhitby | gpgp: http://install.preware.org/ |
| 23:37.20 | chrisa | or rwhitby can swoop in |
| 23:37.22 | chrisa | That works too |
| 23:37.29 | zsoc | It seems he wants a root shell. |
| 23:37.30 | rwhitby | the install the OpenSSH SFTP Server package in Preware |
| 23:37.37 | rwhitby | then set up ssh keys |
| 23:37.38 | mjkjr | 'root' doesn't bother me now, probably because someone at work asked me if my phone was 'jailbroke' |
| 23:37.41 | zsoc | I understand the idea of OpenSSH, but some of us like novacom :D |
| 23:37.56 | zsoc | but novacom is 3423512 times easier to use than setting up ssh keys to someone unfamiliar with the idea. |
| 23:37.58 | rwhitby | for novacom, just install the Palm SDK or PDK and type 'novacom' |
| 23:38.25 | zsoc | I'm full of disagreement today... cloning/building precomd is very simple, and much smaller than the SDK |
| 23:38.30 | gpgp | i will try that metod on this machine but u=it failed on my widows macheine yesterday |
| 23:38.42 | chrisa | Is precomd a re-eng novacomd? |
| 23:38.49 | chrisa | *rev-eng |
| 23:38.52 | zsoc | chrisa: yes, oss novacom |
| 23:39.30 | zsoc | rwhitby: I assume the new 1.4 SDK/PDK's have the upstart issue fixed with novacomd? |
| 23:39.39 | zsoc | ie: people were having to manually start novacomd |
| 23:39.46 | rwhitby | zsoc: dunno |
| 23:39.48 | zsoc | in ub9.10 |
| 23:40.18 | rwhitby | zsoc: 'building' is simpler than 'installing' ? |
| 23:40.30 | mjkjr | no |
| 23:41.23 | chrisa | The SDK is quite large |
| 23:41.47 | chrisa | I'm glad I've never dealt with any of this |
| 23:42.44 | zsoc | rwhitby: building a small program is simpler than installer Preware (especially since our current suggested method is wosqi), installing openssh server, and finding a tutorial that properly explains how keys works and where they go |
| 23:43.30 | zsoc | rwhitby: now when we have a windows based .exe installer, and an openssh package that automagically generates keys from some mojo front end, and gives you instructions on moving it to your host computer for each OS, then I would suggest that |
| 23:43.38 | rwhitby | zsoc: but not simpler than installing the SDK or PDK according to Palm's documented procedure, using Palm's official support channels for assistance, and using Palm's official documentation to find out the 'novaterm' command |
| 23:44.19 | zsoc | bah humbug |
| 23:45.47 | oc80z | Heh |
| 23:46.19 | *** part/#webos-internals knickrox13 (~knickrox1@host109-234.student.udel.edu) |
| 23:46.46 | oc80z | there are one or to novaterm binaries out there, no? |
| 23:46.49 | oc80z | one or two&* |
| 23:46.51 | zsoc | rwhitby: It's difficult to listen to you pushing a 'lesson the support on our shoulders' argument when Preware's error messages and message handling is so poor. |
| 23:47.01 | zsoc | s/lesson/lessen/ |
| 23:47.17 | chrisa | zsoc: whenever preware doesn't work for me I pm rwhitby |
| 23:47.21 | chrisa | Who needs error messages? |
| 23:47.38 | rwhitby | zsoc: patches welcome ... |
| 23:53.02 | bhuey | anybody have any experience getting yahoo chat working with the messaging plugin ? |
| 23:53.25 | bhuey | it doesn't like to login even though I know it's the right password |
| 23:57.51 | gpgp | i forgot i tried this on my wifes ubuntu machine yesterday, found my problem. thanks folks |