| 00:07.04 | *** join/#webos-internals tmandry (~tyler@unaffiliated/tman) |
| 00:08.27 | *** join/#webos-internals mpingu (~pingu@p4FEF4C53.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 00:19.35 | *** part/#webos-internals siestacat (~siestacat@dsl-66-243-209-178.fairpoint.net) |
| 00:29.10 | *** join/#webos-internals jredman (~jredman@host-067-131-055-054.dhcp.fewpb.net) |
| 00:29.29 | jredman | Hello...could really used some help fixing some messed up partitions on my touchpad... |
| 00:29.40 | *** join/#webos-internals siestacat (~siestacat@dsl-66-243-209-178.fairpoint.net) |
| 00:30.18 | jredman | And I have a question about webos doctor if anyone has time?? |
| 00:30.46 | jcsullins | jredman: what partitions are messed up? |
| 00:31.12 | jredman | oh, i failed somewhere trying to install ubuntu...and my ext3fs is at 25gb... |
| 00:31.32 | jredman | problem is...i was just following instructions and not quite sure how to revert back. |
| 00:31.35 | jcsullins | that's pretty big... |
| 00:31.44 | jredman | I thought webosdoctor would reset partitions but it didn't... |
| 00:31.55 | jcsullins | u have link to those instructions? |
| 00:32.45 | jcsullins | if not, no prob. |
| 00:33.04 | jredman | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/UbuntuChroot#Instructions |
| 00:33.21 | jredman | i used the manual option...and did something wrong. |
| 00:33.40 | ka6sox-away | jredman, what "manual" instructions |
| 00:33.47 | jcsullins | ok.. can u novaterm into it... |
| 00:33.54 | jredman | but is there not a simple way to format the whole thing? |
| 00:33.55 | dwc- | scroll down to the bottom |
| 00:33.57 | jredman | yeah, i'm in it now |
| 00:34.08 | dwc- | (read all directions before starting) |
| 00:34.21 | jredman | manual - i typed them through novaterm. auto - use the webosdoctor image. |
| 00:34.43 | jcsullins | do a "lvm.static lvs" |
| 00:35.08 | jredman | ok |
| 00:35.25 | jcsullins | what's it show for sizes of the ext3fs and media partitions? |
| 00:35.50 | jcsullins | (logical volumes, actually) |
| 00:36.00 | *** join/#webos-internals DaDirtyPanda (~Panda@99-159-56-102.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:36.13 | jredman | ext3fs is 25.53 |
| 00:36.19 | jredman | media is 2g |
| 00:37.02 | ka6sox-away | that will probably fail sooner than you would like |
| 00:37.14 | jredman | huh? |
| 00:37.31 | ka6sox-away | making /media/internal that small. |
| 00:37.36 | dwc- | depends on whether he plans to install many apps |
| 00:37.41 | jcsullins | ok, do a "df -h /media/ext3fs" |
| 00:37.50 | jcsullins | (checking to see if it's mounted)... |
| 00:38.21 | ka6sox-away | jredman, all installable apps use space in /media/internal |
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| 00:38.29 | ka6sox-away | in the form of cryptofs. |
| 00:38.33 | jredman | cant find mount point |
| 00:39.15 | jcsullins | ok, hold on a sec.. |
| 00:39.49 | dtzWill | ...why is cryptofs used so much, again? |
| 00:39.52 | *** join/#webos-internals Framework43 (~framework@unaffiliated/framework) |
| 00:40.05 | ka6sox-away | dtzWill, because ALL installable apps live there. |
| 00:40.10 | dtzWill | unclear on what it's protecting//who from |
| 00:40.13 | dtzWill | ka6sox-away: right right, but why? |
| 00:40.18 | jredman | what size is /media/internal from the factory? |
| 00:40.22 | ka6sox-away | its the webOS way |
| 00:40.22 | jcsullins | prob. easiest way is to blow away the ext3fs, add it's space back to media and then redo the instructions... |
| 00:40.36 | jredman | okay...how do i do that? :) |
| 00:40.40 | dtzWill | why don't we just ditch cryptofs entirely, can't be helping i/o :P |
| 00:40.46 | halfhalo | doitdoitdoit |
| 00:41.21 | ka6sox-away | halfhalo, please. |
| 00:41.49 | ka6sox-away | dtzWill, preware installs stuff in there, every app that gets installed uses it. |
| 00:41.49 | jcsullins | so... first what was the space used by ext3fs again? |
| 00:42.06 | dtzWill | ka6sox-away: i understand that it _is_ used by everything/everyone |
| 00:42.12 | cat-xeger | Take a look at capabilities and security. It'll make more sense then. |
| 00:42.20 | jredman | let me mention this...i did try to run webos doctor with it set to create a ext3fs partition right before i got on IRC...so it may have created another 2gb partition that isn't active...not sure how to check. |
| 00:42.23 | dtzWill | but...what's the motivation? what would happen if one (assuming one were able) just ripped out cryptofs entirely |
| 00:42.24 | jredman | 25.53gb |
| 00:43.24 | ka6sox-away | dtzWill, because ipkg installs stuff there. |
| 00:43.43 | ka6sox-away | and its the only place with enough space(usually) |
| 00:43.44 | dtzWill | >.< i mean why do webos devices employ cryptofs at all as part of their design |
| 00:43.46 | jcsullins | do a "lvm.static lvremove ext3fs" |
| 00:44.33 | ka6sox-away | and cryptofs is used because it creates the environment to allow USB mode to happen so you can see your /media/internal on your computer to save you from a MESS. |
| 00:44.41 | dwc- | versus another ext3? probably trying to strike a balance between app space and usb-accessible space |
| 00:44.48 | jredman | volume group "ext3fs" not found |
| 00:45.18 | ka6sox-away | dwc-, its expandable and disconnectable. |
| 00:45.18 | jcsullins | sorry, try "/dev/mapper/store-ext3fs" instead of "ext3fs" |
| 00:45.30 | ka6sox-away | they already tried using /var and that failed. |
| 00:45.30 | dtzWill | ah, more a ext3f2-on-fat solution than anything security related. |
| 00:45.49 | dwc- | right |
| 00:45.53 | ka6sox-away | no, a disconnectable solution. |
| 00:46.00 | dtzWill | (without limitations of a loop image, etc) |
| 00:46.24 | ka6sox-away | we have put loop images in it...for optware and other chrooted things. |
| 00:46.45 | ka6sox-away | but, daemons will croak and other issues will happen when it gets disconnected. |
| 00:47.00 | jredman | its doing something... |
| 00:47.12 | dwc- | loops also can't grow beyond the max file size of the backing partition |
| 00:48.08 | dtzWill | dwc-: (that's the limitation i was mentioning, indeed) |
| 00:48.08 | ka6sox-away | the reason we don't use loops inside of cryptofs as a preferable solution is that the things running in the chroot have issues with being disconnected. |
| 00:48.23 | jcsullins | if that works ok, then "lvm.static lvresize -L +25.53G /dev/mapper/store-media" |
| 00:48.55 | dtzWill | well it just seems like it has the whole, you know crypto part, so it's presumably adding something in that department. |
| 00:49.41 | dtzWill | protects someone from grabbing your device in usb mode..and...reading your palm profile/app data? |
| 00:49.42 | jredman | novaterms still locked up, think its running (hope it is at least) |
| 00:49.54 | ka6sox-away | dtzWill, the real benefit is the ability to disconnect filehandles and allow the disconnection to take place. |
| 00:50.07 | ka6sox-away | crpyto is a side benefit. |
| 00:50.24 | jcsullins | give it a little bit... |
| 00:50.39 | *** join/#webos-internals rrix (~rrix@199.68.30.129) |
| 00:50.45 | jredman | so Media is default primary partition? |
| 00:51.08 | dtzWill | ka6sox-away: don't see what the filesystem has to do with a policy to close filehandles on usb mode |
| 00:51.16 | dtzWill | does cryptofs in some capacity facilitate that more than other things? |
| 00:51.18 | jcsullins | not sure what u mean by 'primary partition' ... it's the big one, normally |
| 00:51.21 | ka6sox-away | dtzWill, it *suspends* them. |
| 00:51.30 | jredman | thats what i meant... not 'primary' |
| 00:51.32 | *** join/#webos-internals rrix (~rrix@fedora/PhrkOnLsh) |
| 00:51.47 | ka6sox-away | dtzWill, then picks them back up again as if nothing happened. |
| 00:52.38 | ka6sox-away | jredman, /dev/mapper/store-media is mounted as /media/internal |
| 00:52.42 | dtzWill | right, but why does *cryptofs* make that any more possible than.... any other solution. i understand that's how they've rigged it, but _why_ that solution from various others |
| 00:52.54 | ka6sox-away | ask HPalm.... |
| 00:53.06 | ka6sox-away | and its deeply embedded into the system. |
| 00:53.34 | dtzWill | ka6sox-away: yeah, i'm not suggesting we try to remove it (why??) |
| 00:53.55 | dtzWill | but it wasn't inately embedded, some smart folk at palm decided it made sense outta the possibilities |
| 00:54.03 | ka6sox-away | okay, the issue is that I do believe that 2GB is too small for /media/internal |
| 00:54.05 | dtzWill | and was hoping to tease out the reasoning on that :) |
| 00:54.21 | ka6sox-away | jredman, I am using an 8GB ext3fs |
| 00:54.26 | ka6sox-away | with 3 chroots in it. |
| 00:54.39 | ka6sox-away | and tons of space left. |
| 00:54.47 | ka6sox-away | (and optware too) |
| 00:54.50 | jredman | as soon as i get this back to normal, thats what i'd like to try... |
| 00:55.15 | jredman | didn't mean to make it 25gbs... |
| 00:55.43 | ka6sox-away | hopefully it will be okay when you finish resizing |
| 00:56.40 | *** join/#webos-internals CTLAdvance (~kvirc@cpe-74-76-183-96.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 00:57.00 | jredman | really apprecaite the help by the way, you guys |
| 00:57.19 | ka6sox-away | jredman, right now would be a good time to use novaterm to do this: |
| 00:57.21 | ka6sox-away | /usr/sbin/fsck.vfat /dev/mapper/store-media |
| 00:57.29 | ka6sox-away | see if your FS is intact. |
| 00:57.43 | jredman | novaterm is locked up...waiting for resizing to finish |
| 00:57.45 | *** join/#webos-internals IGNTNUNLMTD (~IGNTNUNLM@137.146.148.118) |
| 00:58.03 | ka6sox-away | oh, okay thats not good. |
| 00:58.03 | jredman | So, what is FS? |
| 00:58.06 | ka6sox-away | filesystem |
| 00:58.21 | jcsullins | jredman: did the lvremove finish and now it's doing the lvresize? |
| 00:58.29 | jredman | no, remove |
| 00:58.50 | jredman | i can close and try to relauch novaterm |
| 00:58.56 | jcsullins | humm, wouldn't think it'd take that long... but haven't removed a 25Gb volume before, so.... ? |
| 00:59.34 | jcsullins | I wouldn't close the one already running... |
| 00:59.47 | jcsullins | not quite yet, anyway |
| 00:59.54 | jredman | ok |
| 01:00.54 | jredman | i don't understand why i cant format it all and let webosdoctor redo it...but doesn't look like webos does that |
| 01:01.18 | jcsullins | it won't touch the ext3fs if it's already there... |
| 01:01.21 | *** join/#webos-internals rrix (~rrix@fedora/PhrkOnLsh) |
| 01:01.23 | jcsullins | I think... |
| 01:01.50 | *** join/#webos-internals badfrog (~quassel@173-115-57-170.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 01:02.44 | krisp | hello badfrog |
| 01:03.00 | badfrog | hello |
| 01:04.39 | jredman | so while i'm waiting a praying...another question. I haven't seen a native install of ubuntu yet; it all works from within webos. why is that? i know android is close...but if we can reset so many settings, why hasn't someone got it to run w/o webos? |
| 01:08.01 | jredman | jcsullins Still sitting here...Hmmm |
| 01:08.32 | ka6sox-away | jcsullins, it won't treat it as a virus and blow it away |
| 01:08.37 | jcsullins | I would expect that after after android for touchpad is release it wouldn't be too long before native ubuntu.. just guessing.. |
| 01:08.46 | ka6sox-away | I don't know how meta-doctor will treat it. |
| 01:09.26 | jcsullins | doctor/meta-doctor seems to not erase existing "foreign" lvm volumes... (at least for me) |
| 01:09.53 | jredman | i read something about having to novaterm into the system during the webosdoctor during certain percetages and then you can set partitions there. i guess webosdoctor doesn't do that |
| 01:10.50 | jcsullins | yeah, I guess there might be tricks to do it... but just running it doesn't seem to do it.. |
| 01:10.53 | ka6sox-away | had I have seen this "howto" before I would have marked it as TOXIC. |
| 01:11.15 | jcsullins | jredman: still going? |
| 01:11.20 | jredman | yeah... |
| 01:11.37 | jcsullins | humm.. |
| 01:12.01 | jcsullins | can u do a novaterm from another window? |
| 01:12.17 | ka6sox-away | jcsullins, you have anything on /media/internal you can't live without? |
| 01:12.21 | jredman | no, won't let me select it. i'm running it via quicklaunch |
| 01:12.35 | ka6sox-away | oh, |
| 01:12.41 | ka6sox-away | then all bets are OFF. |
| 01:13.06 | jcsullins | quicklaunch? not familiar with that |
| 01:13.13 | ka6sox-away | bingo! |
| 01:13.31 | ka6sox-away | right now we have NO idea as to what is happening... |
| 01:13.45 | ka6sox-away | it might be eating the entire flash for all we know...but we can't know. |
| 01:14.28 | ka6sox-away | [18:12] <ka6sox-away>jcsullins, you have anything on /media/internal you can't live without? |
| 01:14.28 | jcsullins | can u cancel it? (i.e. Ctrl-C) |
| 01:14.37 | jredman | i just did. |
| 01:14.50 | jcsullins | ka6sox-away: it's not my tp that we're working on... |
| 01:14.58 | ka6sox-away | sorry, |
| 01:15.04 | ka6sox-away | jredman, same question |
| 01:15.27 | ka6sox-away | jredman, you have anything on /media/internal you can't live without? |
| 01:15.28 | ka6sox-away | ? |
| 01:15.35 | jcsullins | jredman: can u get a novaterm prompt back? |
| 01:15.38 | jredman | no |
| 01:15.47 | jredman | booting up linux box, one second |
| 01:15.49 | ka6sox-away | jredman, no to whaihc question? |
| 01:15.54 | ka6sox-away | which question? |
| 01:16.13 | jredman | no, there's nothing on it i need to keep |
| 01:16.20 | *** join/#webos-internals LarrySteeze (LarrySteez@c-24-60-166-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 01:17.05 | *** join/#webos-internals thor968 (~thg968@93.195.117.72) |
| 01:17.08 | ka6sox-away | then I suggest you just start over, and use the method that is known to work. |
| 01:17.50 | jcsullins | he needs to have the ext3fs volume gone (and the space it's claiming) gone first, I think... |
| 01:18.20 | *** join/#webos-internals thor968 (~thg968@93.195.117.72) |
| 01:18.28 | ka6sox-away | lvremove /dev/mapper/store-ext3fs |
| 01:18.39 | ka6sox-away | I don't use the static version (not necessary) |
| 01:18.49 | ka6sox-away | it may be symlinked there anyways. |
| 01:20.23 | ka6sox-away | but that proceedure has NO safety net in it. |
| 01:21.36 | jcsullins | jredman: if u can get a prompt up, try a 'lvs' to see what it looks like... |
| 01:22.31 | jredman | okay...i thought i had novacom working on my linux box earlier...not sure how ot launch it htough now |
| 01:23.13 | ka6sox-away | novaterm |
| 01:23.18 | jcsullins | novaterm doesn't work? prob. need to start the novacomd, if not... |
| 01:23.24 | ka6sox-away | and see if it finds a device when its hooked up |
| 01:24.45 | jredman | you're right, i type novaterm...geez, that was too easy |
| 01:24.46 | jredman | okay |
| 01:24.51 | jredman | i'm in |
| 01:24.57 | jcsullins | lvs |
| 01:25.10 | jredman | ext3fs is still there |
| 01:25.21 | jcsullins | sizes and all look same as before? |
| 01:26.15 | ka6sox-away | jredman, a pastebin of that lvs would be helpful |
| 01:26.25 | ka6sox-away | also, before you waste much more time. |
| 01:26.43 | jredman | ext3fs 25.52G / filecache 136.00 / log 24.00 / media 2.00G / mojodb 256.00 / root 568.00 / swap 512.00 / update 16.00 / var 64.00 |
| 01:26.53 | ka6sox-away | /usr/sbin/fsck.vfat /dev/mapper/store-media |
| 01:27.22 | jredman | Is my math off, or does that not add up to 32? |
| 01:27.26 | ka6sox-away | make sure its not broken and needs to just *start* over. |
| 01:27.32 | jcsullins | it won't |
| 01:28.09 | jredman | dosfsck 2.11, 12 mar 2005, fat32, lfn |
| 01:28.22 | jcsullins | there's other "real" partitions out there too... |
| 01:28.32 | ka6sox-away | like 13 others |
| 01:28.50 | jredman | . /dev/mapper/store-media: 6388 files, 56237/523269 clusers |
| 01:29.22 | jredman | If i set webosdoctor to create a 2gb partition but hadn't activated it and went through webosdoctor...how could we see if that is there? |
| 01:30.06 | jcsullins | you mean after running doctor? |
| 01:30.15 | jredman | yea... |
| 01:30.36 | jcsullins | df -h /media/ext3fs I think would tell ya well enough |
| 01:30.49 | jredman | b/c i created my own webosdoctor and changed the makefile so it should have made that partition. but i did that AFTER i made the original ext3fs by hand. |
| 01:31.03 | jcsullins | well, that would tell ya if it was mounted... the "lvs" would tell ya if the logical volume was created |
| 01:31.16 | ruumis | tell us more about things you make with your hand |
| 01:31.29 | jcsullins | yeah, I don't think it'll touch it if it's already there... |
| 01:31.44 | jredman | okay...so next, try to delete again? |
| 01:31.48 | jcsullins | yeah |
| 01:33.41 | jredman | LOL, that worked. so that java novacom piece from windows 7 sucked...thats why it iddn't work. I didn't even see the confirm y/n option from the windows box |
| 01:34.02 | jcsullins | ahh.. do a 'lvs' again... |
| 01:34.11 | wrea | hi LarrySteeze |
| 01:34.46 | jredman | its gone, just what i listed before now |
| 01:35.02 | jcsullins | what's 'media' show? |
| 01:35.08 | jredman | 2 g |
| 01:35.17 | jredman | do the other lv.static option? |
| 01:35.52 | jredman | the lvresize? |
| 01:35.58 | jcsullins | yep |
| 01:36.42 | *** part/#webos-internals siestacat (~siestacat@dsl-66-243-209-178.fairpoint.net) |
| 01:36.54 | jredman | lvm.static lvresize -L +25.53 this wants a logical volume name, where do i list that? //dev/mapper/store-media at the end? |
| 01:37.03 | jcsullins | yeah |
| 01:37.14 | jcsullins | wait |
| 01:37.14 | ka6sox-away | no |
| 01:37.17 | ka6sox-away | thats wrong |
| 01:37.21 | jredman | waiting |
| 01:37.22 | jcsullins | oh? |
| 01:37.34 | ka6sox-away | you will only increase it by 25.53MB |
| 01:37.46 | jcsullins | yeah, 25.53Gb |
| 01:37.49 | jredman | that should be all of it |
| 01:37.50 | jcsullins | yeah, 25.53G |
| 01:38.12 | ka6sox-away | +25.53GB |
| 01:38.24 | ka6sox-away | but if you want so to short circuit all this |
| 01:38.28 | jredman | ahh! |
| 01:38.35 | ka6sox-away | just increase it by 17.53GB |
| 01:38.57 | ka6sox-away | then recreate the ext3fs partition. |
| 01:38.59 | jredman | okay, then we'll create the ext3fs |
| 01:39.17 | ka6sox-away | you have a number of steps before you get there however. |
| 01:39.25 | ka6sox-away | none of which are documented. |
| 01:39.38 | jredman | okay; media at 19.53 now |
| 01:39.58 | jredman | fyi...my tp is booted up; should it be in that diag mode? |
| 01:39.59 | ka6sox-away | vgs? |
| 01:40.09 | ka6sox-away | jredman, not necessary |
| 01:40.16 | ka6sox-away | sinc you are in this deep already |
| 01:40.20 | jredman | ok :) |
| 01:40.21 | ka6sox-away | just don't be running any applications |
| 01:40.32 | ka6sox-away | I mean nothing |
| 01:40.53 | jredman | k... next step? |
| 01:40.58 | ka6sox-away | and just for grins and giggles |
| 01:41.22 | ka6sox-away | pkill -SIGUSR1 cryptofs |
| 01:41.40 | jredman | done |
| 01:41.41 | ka6sox-away | this will make sure (once again) that its offline and you won't blow stuff up. |
| 01:41.55 | ka6sox-away | okay now you have to resize the vfat |
| 01:42.30 | ka6sox-away | but first |
| 01:42.32 | jredman | not unmount /media/internal first? |
| 01:43.01 | ka6sox-away | if you were doing this with /media/internal mounted then we potentially have bigger issues. |
| 01:43.24 | jredman | umm...ok... |
| 01:43.39 | ka6sox-away | umount it |
| 01:43.45 | ka6sox-away | and then : /usr/sbin/fsck.vfat /dev/mapper/store-media |
| 01:43.45 | jredman | done. |
| 01:44.22 | ka6sox-away | jcsullins, jump in any time! |
| 01:44.31 | jredman | lol |
| 01:44.54 | ka6sox-away | did the fsck come back clean? |
| 01:44.59 | jredman | what am i looking for in those results from fsck? |
| 01:45.06 | ka6sox-away | pastebin them please. |
| 01:45.31 | jredman | dosfsck 2.11, 12 Mar 2005, FAT32, LFN |
| 01:45.39 | ka6sox-away | no, I mean @ pastebin.com |
| 01:47.17 | ka6sox-away | (or your favourite pastebin) |
| 01:47.46 | jredman | pastebin.com/db4dmynf |
| 01:48.49 | ka6sox-away | hmmm...nothing there. |
| 01:49.06 | ka6sox-away | its an online clipboard thing and I don't see anything |
| 01:51.01 | jredman | its there... |
| 01:51.03 | jredman | anyway: |
| 01:51.08 | jredman | dosfsck 2.11, 12 Mar 2005, FAT32, LFN |
| 01:51.43 | jredman | . /dev/mapper/store-media: 6388 files, 56237/523260 clusters |
| 01:52.05 | ka6sox-away | thats it? |
| 01:53.01 | jredman | yes |
| 01:53.05 | *** join/#webos-internals sergacity (~sergacity@mn-71-55-149-211.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 01:53.20 | ka6sox-away | no errors then |
| 01:53.23 | ka6sox-away | thats good. |
| 01:53.54 | ka6sox-away | so I would say that you can proceed with the fatresize |
| 01:55.00 | jredman | okay. so i don't mess it up this time...why am i resizing? |
| 01:55.32 | ka6sox-away | the container (the Logical Volume) is much larger than the formatted filesystem |
| 01:55.43 | ka6sox-away | the filesystem is only 2GB |
| 01:55.57 | ka6sox-away | and the Container (Logical Volume) is 19.53GB. |
| 01:56.01 | jredman | gotcha |
| 01:56.32 | jredman | resizefat /dev/mapper/store-media 19.53GB |
| 01:56.33 | jredman | ? |
| 01:56.44 | *** join/#webos-internals siestacat (~siestacat@dsl-66-243-209-178.fairpoint.net) |
| 01:57.14 | ka6sox-away | I always leave a little wiggle room but some people just firewall it. |
| 01:57.28 | ka6sox-away | it won't blow up most likely |
| 01:57.44 | ka6sox-away | I kind of throw away a few 10's of MB. |
| 01:57.55 | ka6sox-away | make it a bit smaller. |
| 01:58.01 | jcsullins | ka6sox-away: was getting some food... and looks like you're doing just fine... :) |
| 01:58.25 | ka6sox-away | so I'd resizefat /dev/mapper/store-media 19G |
| 01:58.57 | ka6sox-away | or 19.23 or whatever (as long as it isnt' bigger) |
| 01:59.28 | jredman | cool, done |
| 01:59.41 | ka6sox-away | okay now you can create your ext3fs lv |
| 01:59.53 | ka6sox-away | pvs |
| 02:00.00 | ka6sox-away | that will tell you whats "free" |
| 02:00.18 | ka6sox-away | or pvscan as its fully known as. |
| 02:01.02 | jcsullins | btw, before u mount it, make sure nothing has already been put under /media/ext3fs ... |
| 02:01.06 | Jack87 | i am almost exclusively in ubuntu chroot wm when i use my tp |
| 02:02.04 | ka6sox-away | jredman, how much free space is there? |
| 02:02.13 | jredman | 8gb |
| 02:02.33 | jredman | it's writing suberblocks and filesystem accounting information now |
| 02:02.34 | ka6sox-away | okay, and you are satisfied with the size of your SWAP space? |
| 02:02.54 | jredman | should i not be...? |
| 02:03.00 | ka6sox-away | up to you. |
| 02:03.16 | jredman | it's good |
| 02:03.27 | jredman | For now at least... |
| 02:03.40 | ka6sox-away | okay, the fatresize is done? |
| 02:04.16 | jredman | yea, i've done lvcreate, its good |
| 02:04.19 | ka6sox-away | or were you already making your ext3fs |
| 02:04.22 | jredman | mkfs is done |
| 02:04.25 | ka6sox-away | okay |
| 02:04.32 | jredman | ready to mount now i think |
| 02:04.37 | ka6sox-away | rerun the vfat check |
| 02:04.40 | rrix | Hmmm, has nuttybunny worked on messagingplugins at all on enyo? |
| 02:04.50 | rrix | the mojo ones don't work on the touchpad still :\ |
| 02:05.25 | jcsullins | check before mount: "ls /media/ext3fs" |
| 02:05.27 | ka6sox-away | /usr/sbin/fsck.vfat /dev/mapper/store-media |
| 02:05.41 | jredman | still good as far as i can tell; no errors |
| 02:06.32 | ka6sox-away | its done with that check? |
| 02:06.56 | jredman | yes |
| 02:07.14 | ka6sox-away | and you are @ step 10? |
| 02:07.20 | jredman | yea |
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| 02:07.43 | ka6sox-away | you already remounted rw? |
| 02:07.57 | jredman | yes... |
| 02:08.14 | ka6sox-away | grep ext3fs /etc/fstab |
| 02:08.57 | *** join/#webos-internals grishnav (~grishnav@2001:49f0:a048:0:dead:beef:cafe:1337) |
| 02:08.58 | jredman | . /dev/mapper/store-ext3fs /media/ext3fs auto noatime 0 0 |
| 02:09.05 | ka6sox-away | okay so its there already |
| 02:09.31 | jredman | finish the directsion and reboot? |
| 02:09.31 | *** join/#webos-internals noradtux|away (~noradtux@2002:4e36:11ff::1) |
| 02:09.42 | *** mode/#webos-internals [+v noradtux] by ChanServ |
| 02:09.44 | ka6sox-away | remount ro and either mount -a or reboot |
| 02:10.12 | jcsullins | did u 'ls /media/ext3fs' before mounting? |
| 02:10.34 | jcsullins | some packages put stuff under that dir... |
| 02:11.23 | ka6sox-away | jredman, did you have Optware installed before you started this? |
| 02:11.27 | jredman | i typed lvm on accident; how do i get it off that command? |
| 02:11.35 | ka6sox-away | ctrl-c |
| 02:11.37 | jredman | i did not |
| 02:11.47 | ka6sox-away | good. |
| 02:11.56 | ka6sox-away | because this howto missed that critical step |
| 02:12.59 | jredman | OK...rebooting...then we will see if it worked |
| 02:13.25 | jredman | u guys are awesome tho... i was almost there just don't know my linux commands very well and got worried |
| 02:13.28 | ka6sox-away | it might not mount cleanly the first time...dunno why but it just doesnt' mount /media/ext3frs the first time. |
| 02:14.30 | ka6sox-away | that howto is missing a number of critical steps to make sure that you don't mess up your device. |
| 02:15.04 | jredman | hmmm...novacom isn't connecting now |
| 02:16.00 | jredman | there it goes |
| 02:16.02 | ka6sox-away | give it time |
| 02:16.03 | ka6sox-away | ya |
| 02:16.15 | ka6sox-away | needs to get past the pivotroot and get novacomd running |
| 02:16.26 | jredman | so...lvs looks good |
| 02:16.38 | ka6sox-away | mount | grep ext3fs |
| 02:17.04 | ka6sox-away | jredman, do you have edit access to the wiki? |
| 02:17.13 | jredman | doubt it |
| 02:17.32 | ka6sox-away | sign up and I will promote you to be able to edit it. |
| 02:18.39 | ka6sox-away | then you can add what you learned to the proceedure to make it safer and easier for the next guy :D |
| 02:19.12 | ka6sox-away | that way the next guy can hopefully not have to go thru what you did. |
| 02:19.19 | ka6sox-away | BTW...you did very very well. |
| 02:19.35 | ka6sox-away | for a while I thought we were going to have to docrot. |
| 02:19.37 | ka6sox-away | doctor. |
| 02:20.42 | jredman | I did doctor twice before i got on here...didn't fix issues :( |
| 02:20.55 | jredman | I jsut signed up... |
| 02:21.01 | ka6sox-away | what username? |
| 02:21.07 | jredman | jredman |
| 02:21.34 | ka6sox-away | respond to the email and I will promote you. |
| 02:21.36 | ka6sox-away | thanks |
| 02:21.47 | jcsullins | can u promote me too? :) |
| 02:22.40 | jredman | k, done... |
| 02:23.34 | ka6sox-away | jcsullins, did you respond to the email? |
| 02:23.49 | jcsullins | u mean when signing up? |
| 02:24.09 | ka6sox-away | yes, |
| 02:24.13 | jcsullins | yeah |
| 02:24.46 | ka6sox-away | jredman, try to make a simple edit on that page and save? |
| 02:25.01 | ka6sox-away | jcsullins, after he is done, refresh that page and try the same? |
| 02:25.07 | ka6sox-away | but wait till he is done. |
| 02:26.16 | jredman | worked! |
| 02:26.29 | ka6sox-away | okay jcsullins your turn. |
| 02:26.32 | ka6sox-away | but refresh first. |
| 02:27.20 | ka6sox-away | jredman, please add....@ the top, that you *must* remove Optware before you start this proceedure. |
| 02:27.44 | *** part/#webos-internals datafirm (~dp@c-71-231-104-86.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 02:28.14 | ka6sox-away | that whole top section is awful. |
| 02:28.26 | ka6sox-away | because its bound to fail. |
| 02:30.21 | ka6sox-away | everything down to the "table of contents" is very very out of order. |
| 02:30.21 | jcsullins | ok, worked |
| 02:30.44 | jredman | updated |
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| 02:31.51 | ka6sox-away | hmmm |
| 02:34.11 | jredman | okay...so, i've got ubuntu and everything installed...lets see if it'll work |
| 02:35.06 | ka6sox-away | should |
| 02:35.34 | ka6sox-away | I really want to "nuke" the loop method, its full of FAIL. |
| 02:35.48 | jredman | looks like it...whats the command to launch gui? |
| 02:35.51 | ka6sox-away | but I'm sure I'll get a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth. |
| 02:35.59 | ka6sox-away | what gui? |
| 02:36.14 | ka6sox-away | there isn't one when you first install it. |
| 02:36.15 | jredman | ohh...well, let me install one then |
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| 02:47.56 | dwc- | ka6sox-away: new accoutns don't get edit access anymore? |
| 02:51.38 | ka6sox-away | dwc-, nope, why would I want to give the wikispammers freedom to destroy my wiki? |
| 02:51.50 | dwc- | I dunno, I didn't create mine that long ago |
| 02:52.06 | dwc- | maybe someone was just really fast at approving me |
| 02:52.24 | ka6sox-away | username? |
| 02:52.33 | dwc- | dwc |
| 02:52.37 | halfhalo | shocker |
| 02:52.54 | dwc- | no, I thought shocker is your username |
| 02:53.03 | halfhalo | mebe |
| 02:53.14 | ka6sox-away | dwc-, and you could edit up to now? |
| 02:53.28 | dwc- | look at my meager supply of contributions |
| 02:57.52 | ka6sox-away | did you use captcha to edit or just save? |
| 02:58.50 | ka6sox-away | dwc-, please try to edit a page now, and tell me if you get captcha or not? |
| 02:59.11 | dwc- | I got a captcha every single frickin time |
| 02:59.22 | ka6sox-away | as it should be |
| 02:59.37 | dwc- | sure, if you want to drive away the people who are trying to contribute |
| 03:00.00 | ka6sox-away | hwo about now? |
| 03:00.10 | ka6sox-away | dwc-, you weren't promoted. |
| 03:00.14 | ka6sox-away | thats why. |
| 03:00.21 | ka6sox-away | try now please? |
| 03:00.28 | dwc- | hold |
| 03:00.41 | ka6sox-away | (nice hold music playing in the background) |
| 03:01.19 | dwc- | To help protect against automated edit spam, please type the two words you see in the box below: |
| 03:01.33 | ka6sox-away | okay, thats fine... |
| 03:01.35 | ka6sox-away | jas |
| 03:01.52 | ka6sox-away | abandon that edit please |
| 03:01.53 | dwc- | # (User rights log); 03:02 . . Ka6sox (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Dwc from Editors and human to (none) |
| 03:01.57 | ka6sox-away | and start a different one. |
| 03:02.25 | ka6sox-away | I am trying to debug this. |
| 03:02.34 | dwc- | ok |
| 03:02.40 | ka6sox-away | since that isn't correct for the settings you had. |
| 03:04.22 | dwc- | nope, still captcha'd |
| 03:04.32 | dwc- | though, let me make sure this page "exists" first |
| 03:04.40 | dwc- | just to make sure we're talking about the same perms |
| 03:05.37 | ka6sox-away | thank.s |
| 03:07.13 | dwc- | nope, editing my userpage it wants me to figure out how to type this math equation |
| 03:07.24 | ka6sox-away | dwc-, this is one of the trickiest balancing acts going. |
| 03:07.26 | dwc- | reloads for a captcha that doesn't require integrals or greek letters |
| 03:07.35 | *** join/#webos-internals Lenux (~Lenux@cpe-24-166-88-251.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 03:07.47 | ka6sox-away | making it so that the wikispammers don't *own* your wiki |
| 03:07.56 | ka6sox-away | but making it easy enough for humans. |
| 03:08.22 | dwc- | I think some wikis set a higher bar for links that contain url-likes |
| 03:08.30 | dwc- | s/links/edits/ |
| 03:09.22 | dwc- | I agree. and I also would agree that there is insufficient resources to leave it open and rely on human editors to revert |
| 03:11.55 | ka6sox-away | dwc-, this time go thru to completion on your edit please? |
| 03:11.57 | rrix | hmmm, if I install the 2.x messagingplugins and import a 2.x account, it won't log in, but wosi's imlibpurpletransport is still started |
| 03:12.07 | ka6sox-away | ie go thru the captcha and satisfy it . |
| 03:13.05 | dwc- | ok, done |
| 03:14.44 | dwc- | btw, might not be a bad thing to put in a way for humans to be acknowledged as passing the turing test somehow |
| 03:14.44 | ka6sox-away | okay one more time please. |
| 03:14.48 | ka6sox-away | this should be the last test. |
| 03:15.05 | ka6sox-away | if you can this time then I am really not understanding what is happening. |
| 03:15.13 | dwc- | if I can what? |
| 03:15.31 | ka6sox-away | edit *anything* |
| 03:16.00 | dwc- | do you want me editing in the main namespace instead of my userspace? (e.g. are the rules the same?) |
| 03:16.08 | ka6sox-away | yes, main space please. |
| 03:16.17 | dwc- | oh... |
| 03:16.22 | ka6sox-away | that I have to figure out. |
| 03:16.37 | dwc- | I've been editing in the User namespace |
| 03:16.51 | ka6sox-away | by rights...I don't want *any* edits till approved. otherwise we could end up with a giant mess. |
| 03:17.02 | dwc- | I'll make a new page and edit that and then you can purge it from history later |
| 03:17.22 | ka6sox-away | you shouldn't be able to do that..if you can then the wiki is broken...bady |
| 03:17.25 | ka6sox-away | badly |
| 03:18.17 | dwc- | http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Test |
| 03:18.21 | dwc- | added (captcha) |
| 03:19.11 | dwc- | edited (CAPTCHA: vet ntkshes) |
| 03:19.17 | dwc- | hasn't run a ksh on NT in ages |
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| 03:22.13 | ka6sox-away | dwc-, okay try to create another, and edit one please. |
| 03:23.38 | ka6sox-away | when I promote you the captcha should be *off* |
| 03:23.42 | ka6sox-away | which is what I'm debugging. |
| 03:23.53 | dwc- | captcha'd both times |
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| 03:24.15 | *** part/#webos-internals killafreakz (~wircer@ip68-10-173-229.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 03:24.15 | dwc- | do I need to relog? |
| 03:24.28 | ka6sox-away | no, its PHP |
| 03:24.33 | ka6sox-away | should do it IMMEDIATELY |
| 03:24.41 | dwc- | well, I was thinking more that perhaps they stuff something into the session |
| 03:25.02 | ka6sox-away | it should look @ user rights management *every* time. |
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| 03:32.26 | dwc- | ahh, well.. |
| 03:38.07 | *** join/#webos-internals SBtwo (~sexbarril@pool-96-229-97-94.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:42.23 | ka6sox-away | dwc-, I hope we can sort all this out. |
| 03:43.30 | ka6sox-away | only because there are like 4 overlapping things controlling this. |
| 03:52.02 | *** join/#webos-internals Clark008 (Clark@unaffiliated/clark008) |
| 03:57.08 | ka6sox-away | dwc-, you should be able to edit the wiki without a captcha now. |
| 03:57.09 | dwc- | well, I don't mind helping testing, but a sockpuppet would probably be faster feedback for you |
| 03:57.37 | ka6sox-away | once I solve this for you then I solve it for everyone |
| 03:57.53 | dwc- | well |
| 03:57.57 | dwc- | you are somewhat right |
| 03:58.01 | dwc- | I dont' get captchas |
| 03:58.10 | dwc- | but... I also don't seem to have edit privs |
| 03:58.26 | dwc- | Test2 |
| 03:58.27 | dwc- | From WebOS Internals |
| 03:58.27 | dwc- | for Test2 |
| 03:58.27 | dwc- | Jump to: navigation, search |
| 03:58.27 | dwc- | You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reason: |
| 03:58.29 | ka6sox-away | okay I forgot to push the button |
| 03:58.29 | dwc- | You are not allowed to execute the action you have requested. |
| 03:58.32 | dwc- | You can view and copy the source of this page: |
| 03:58.56 | ka6sox-away | after pushing the button you should be able to create and edit |
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| 04:05.26 | ka6sox-away | well...we fixed it alright... |
| 04:05.28 | ka6sox-away | heh |
| 04:05.41 | dwc- | spam problem... solved! |
| 04:06.06 | ka6sox-away | yup, nobody can create or edit |
| 04:06.10 | ka6sox-away | solved! |
| 04:10.48 | wrea | lol |
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| 04:28.04 | ka6sox-away | interesting..devmode password. :D |
| 04:28.57 | rwhitby | don't set it |
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| 04:38.27 | Minal | Guys does any one know apps for Youtube and skype |
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| 05:13.32 | crimsonredmk | it's good to know that clueless trolls wander into not only my irc room |
| 05:20.49 | dwc- | except I suspect that wasn't a clueless troll |
| 05:21.13 | dwc- | that's probably someone with a recent webos device looking for the native apps |
| 05:21.22 | dwc- | perhaps an hp employee even |
| 05:21.34 | Log1x | lol |
| 05:32.18 | Naranek | I got five youtube apps with my Pre3. I could have easily given him one... |
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| 10:05.19 | directhex | rwhitby, what's wrong with setting a devmode password? |
| 10:07.11 | rwhitby | directhex: nothing in general, but wait until you're finished with doctoring and activating and impostahing and anything else before doing it. |
| 10:07.34 | rwhitby | since it's a leading cause of people having problems with old novacom drivers and such |
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| 10:38.38 | bhuey | rwhitby: you in the states now ? |
| 10:48.42 | rwhitby | bhuey: nope, not until next week |
| 10:48.44 | rwhitby | https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=184372741636879 |
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| 13:41.37 | manolisgr | hi all |
| 13:42.24 | manolisgr | #webos-general |
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| 14:09.01 | hmmmm | hmh |
| 14:09.23 | hmmmm | so i just installed this amigo media player, and there's no way to add files to the playlist |
| 14:09.28 | hmmmm | what on earth |
| 14:11.24 | krisp | hola amigo |
| 14:11.43 | *** join/#webos-internals oc80z (oc80z@openvpn/user/oc80z) |
| 14:12.01 | hmmmm | hola |
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| 14:16.03 | hmmmm | and i just tried an online radio application |
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| 14:16.18 | hmmmm | it's almost as if the only things that work are native linux applications |
| 14:18.35 | dwc- | only what things that work |
| 14:19.14 | hmmmm | applications |
| 14:19.57 | dwc- | on what? |
| 14:20.12 | hmmmm | touchpad |
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| 14:36.57 | Log1x | :[ had to doctor my touchpad from the chomper android thign |
| 14:36.58 | Log1x | lol |
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| 14:49.47 | sonofskywalker3 | Guess i'm in the wrong place. is there a good channel for asking webos development questions? |
| 14:50.32 | jtrucks | sonofskywalker3: #webos |
| 14:50.39 | sonofskywalker3 | Thanks jtrucks |
| 14:50.45 | jtrucks | :) |
| 14:51.43 | hape | hmmmm: For internet radio on TP try UberRadio or TuneInRadio. Both works well |
| 14:52.15 | sonofskywalker3 | pandora website works well too, but i wish they had a TP app |
| 14:53.06 | hape | hmmmm: For a good player try Music Remix. Best player on webos. Playlist can not be chnages on webosdevice as the lsits are mentained by the media indexer. Music Remix has itss one playlist (call Flylists) that you can mentain on the device |
| 15:03.51 | hmmmm | media indexer? ah.. |
| 15:04.09 | hmmmm | is there anything i can do to control the media indexer, then? |
| 15:05.15 | hmmmm | it does not support this version of webos |
| 15:05.28 | hmmmm | but the one in the "app catalogue" does |
| 15:05.32 | hmmmm | which is $4 |
| 15:06.13 | hape | hmmmm: or lost fm http://forums.precentral.net/webos-homebrew-apps/229570-lostfm-7.html#post3180985 |
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| 15:07.47 | hape | hmmmm: The media indexer is a webos internal background demon that collects all you music and playliats. All Player apps asks this service for the music on the device. Mojo apps do not have direct write access to the files on your disk for decurity resons |
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| 15:15.25 | hmmmm | i need to sign up to get lostfm? |
| 15:15.27 | hmmmm | .. |
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| 15:24.24 | hape | hmmmm: jep, a free account is working for me |
| 15:25.18 | hape | or do you mean Precentral? |
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| 16:35.20 | Douilspee | yo |
| 16:35.40 | Douilspee | on touchpad, the debian chroot works as well as the ubuntu ? |
| 16:36.22 | ka6sox-away | as in they both work or they both work equally well? |
| 16:47.57 | Loudergood | the debian one actually works a little better for me |
| 16:48.11 | Loudergood | I seem to like making the ubuntu one crash |
| 16:48.25 | Loudergood | of course, this is on my phone |
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| 21:35.33 | Darkmagister | i have bought a touchpad, but before it arrive i want to know if the catalog is geo restricted like for the phone or not, and if yes, is it possible to bypass this ? |
| 21:36.26 | klausa | It is. |
| 21:36.54 | Darkmagister | but how he understand where you are ?? from wifi ?? |
| 21:37.08 | klausa | From your CC# and adress. |
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| 21:37.54 | klausa | You can get free apps, but you'll hit the wall if you want to buy them. |
| 21:38.12 | klausa | Unless you can produce CC from one of the 'valid' countries. |
| 21:38.25 | Darkmagister | cc#??? |
| 21:38.58 | klausa | Credit Card number. |
| 21:39.42 | rwhitby | Darkmagister: for touchpad, you choose your country at startup |
| 21:40.03 | rwhitby | first startup |
| 21:40.04 | Darkmagister | i also have a pre 3 but i can't have here in italy paid app.... and with the bypass activation and impostah i have some problem with the reast of the features of palm profile |
| 21:40.37 | Darkmagister | ok so if i choose the "wrong" country i can buy app if i also have a for example us cc ? |
| 21:40.44 | rwhitby | for the Pre 3, you didn't follow the instructions which say to do a full erase and then log in normallt at the end |
| 21:40.55 | rwhitby | yes |
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| 21:41.06 | rwhitby | I run the US catalog on my TouchPad in Australia |
| 21:41.11 | rwhitby | and use a US debit card |
| 21:41.22 | Darkmagister | and if i doctor the tp i can re change it ? |
| 21:41.30 | Darkmagister | maybe for the future :D |
| 21:41.33 | rwhitby | maybe |
| 21:41.43 | Darkmagister | mmmm |
| 21:42.01 | Darkmagister | ok because now i don't have any us credit card |
| 21:42.05 | Darkmagister | or similar |
| 21:42.13 | Darkmagister | but i can use some promo code for example |
| 21:42.42 | rwhitby | you need a valid credit card entered to use a promo code. |
| 21:43.30 | Darkmagister | the pre 3 i boot it up bypass activation with #*DEVMODE# after this installed impostah, go to activation add my profile info and selected france and english |
| 21:43.46 | Darkmagister | activate and ok it's work i have paid app |
| 21:44.33 | Darkmagister | but on accounts app i don't have my palm profile, and i can't restore my old app and data from the back up made with my pre- 2.0 version |
| 21:45.16 | Darkmagister | i also tried to remove the palm profile dr skipped firstuse but i can't add another account |
| 21:45.32 | rwhitby | did you do what the instructions say? |
| 21:45.51 | rwhitby | or are you not following any instructions? |
| 21:46.14 | Darkmagister | yes i follow some instruction (maybe written by you) on pre central forum |
| 21:46.33 | rwhitby | have you specifically done step 15 of http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/281075-global-paid-app-catalog-access-new-unlocked-gsm-pre-2-pre-3-veer-using-impostah.html ? |
| 21:46.33 | Darkmagister | http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/281075-global-paid-app-catalog-access-new-unlocked-gsm-pre-2-pre-3-veer-using-impostah.html |
| 21:46.45 | rwhitby | step 15. have you done it? |
| 21:47.14 | Darkmagister | hell no :( |
| 21:47.26 | Darkmagister | i didn't turned off the back up |
| 21:47.54 | Darkmagister | if i do this i lost all my data on palm profile true? |
| 21:48.17 | Darkmagister | but most important ... can i re do it ??? or it's to late ? |
| 21:50.03 | Darkmagister | i do all the how to say only not do the backup off and full erase... only a redoctored and sign in normaly :( |
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| 21:55.48 | rwhitby | If you don't do step 15, the procedure is not complete. |
| 21:56.23 | Darkmagister | ok but now that i do some more stuff ...i can finish the procedure ? |
| 21:56.39 | rwhitby | you can do step 15 at any time. |
| 21:56.56 | rwhitby | as long as you do all of it |
| 21:57.17 | Darkmagister | so now i can turn off back up and erase device and re doctor it and i have my catalog working ? |
| 21:57.24 | Darkmagister | woow :D |
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| 21:58.24 | rwhitby | depends how you activated it the first time |
| 21:58.43 | rwhitby | step 15 does not change app catalog restrictions |
| 21:59.13 | rwhitby | that happened irrevocably in step 10 |
| 21:59.27 | Darkmagister | another question i don't know if it's possible ... and also legal to have a credit card from us i i didn't live there , |
| 21:59.33 | rwhitby | although there are reports that you can use a touchpad profile to change it later |
| 22:00.26 | rwhitby | There are no restriction on who can be the recipient of a www.simon.com visa gift debit card. |
| 22:00.33 | rwhitby | (which is what I use) |
| 22:00.49 | Darkmagister | yes i chose france and i see the app catalog full of app :D the problem is that i don't have any credit card from any place allowed |
| 22:00.51 | rwhitby | I suspect credit cards have some conditions. |
| 22:01.18 | Darkmagister | so i choose france because i live in italy and maybe they add it to the list |
| 22:01.28 | rwhitby | some folks report that http://www.usunlocked.com/ works for them |
| 22:02.01 | Darkmagister | but the question is now that i have activated the pre3 as france, i change to us so i can use the gift debit card that you link before ? |
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| 22:35.33 | Darkmagister | ok i have to go :D thanks for your help ;) cu here ;) |
| 22:38.00 | roxfan | http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2011/10/06/hp-touchpad-go-clears-the-fcc/ |
| 22:43.38 | dwc- | could just mean that it got submitted before it was killed |
| 22:44.37 | dwc- | july 26, aug 10 |
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| 22:51.09 | linuxjacques | yeah, they probably had a secrecy hold on it and it was supposed to be available now |
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