| 00:03.36 | backbone87 | Antiarc: is there some parameter to set something, to make it faster, i cant imagine that this "hang" times are caused by the gc |
| 00:03.47 | Antiarc | Just running single lines? |
| 00:03.49 | Ellipsis | Hjalte: yeah, I know, but I've never done this fight as dps before :( |
| 00:03.55 | backbone87 | someloops |
| 00:03.57 | Ellipsis | and I ended up dying |
| 00:04.07 | Hjalte | Ellipsis: Just watch out for black spots on the ground ;) |
| 00:04.11 | Ellipsis | just at the end of the beam a void zone popped under me |
| 00:04.12 | *** join/#wowace freepotsie (n=chatzill@207.171.214.213) |
| 00:04.12 | Ellipsis | >_> |
| 00:04.19 | backbone87 | but only 1 arithmetic per loop |
| 00:04.37 | Antiarc | Not that I can think of. Loops take time but shouldn't take a ton unless you're using a pretty slow computer. |
| 00:05.04 | *** part/#wowace freepotsie (n=chatzill@207.171.214.213) |
| 00:05.26 | Hjalte | Ellipsis: Same thing happened to me the other day. The next tries I was very aware of the void zones though :) |
| 00:05.34 | backbone87 | its not really slowly, but there are 10 seks pause every 5 seks -.- |
| 00:06.15 | *** join/#wowace Vegeta]BT[AFK (n=Vegeta-G@xdslfe223.osnanet.de) |
| 00:06.15 | *** join/#wowace tskim (n=tskim@138.23.167.154) |
| 00:06.21 | backbone87 | 5 secs -> 1000 lines output, 10 secs -> pause, 5 secs -> 1000 lines output |
| 00:06.37 | backbone87 | and so on until the script has finished -.- |
| 00:06.48 | Antiarc | That seems really slow. |
| 00:07.13 | Ellipsis | Hjalte: I was aware of it, but I couldn't get out of it in time |
| 00:07.25 | Ellipsis | it one-shot me while I was running out of it |
| 00:07.31 | *** part/#wowace tskim (n=tskim@138.23.167.154) |
| 00:07.47 | backbone87 | Antiarc: ok the output comes within 0.5 secs or so, cant watch this shit :/ |
| 00:07.54 | Moozh | friggin tauren |
| 00:08.02 | Moozh | their racial health bonus fucks up my logic |
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| 00:09.11 | *** mode/#wowace [+o nymbia] by ChanServ |
| 00:09.38 | NightHawkAtWork | yeah. fucking tauren. almost as bad as fucking gnomes. |
| 00:09.40 | Ellipsis | Moozh: what if you just compare taurens of each class to other races to figure out the tauren bonus first, then go from there? |
| 00:09.44 | backbone87 | Antiarc: 0.004687, 0.016372, 0.002329, 0.001346 |
| 00:09.50 | Moozh | i used a nightelf |
| 00:10.05 | Moozh | druids start with 34 health which isn't associated to stamina |
| 00:10.06 | backbone87 | Antiarc: these are the os.clock diff per 400000 loops |
| 00:10.46 | kadrahil | hey ckk |
| 00:10.48 | kadrahil | http://ace.pastey.net/76409 |
| 00:11.01 | kadrahil | that happens with any cartographer module, checking if it happens with just cart and no modules |
| 00:11.04 | *** join/#wowace darchon (n=darchon@222.112.27.155) |
| 00:11.21 | kadrahil | hmm nope |
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| 00:12.04 | buu | Ellipsis: You wiped to netherspite?! |
| 00:12.19 | Kalroth | lol |
| 00:12.32 | Ellipsis | buu: no, 2 deaths including me |
| 00:12.37 | Ellipsis | how does this chess thing work? |
| 00:12.53 | NightHawkAtWork | Ellipsis: control a chess piece, zerg the opposing king. get free lootz. |
| 00:12.55 | Ellipsis | can I just sit back and watch? >_> |
| 00:13.16 | buu | Ellipsis: Yes. |
| 00:13.18 | NightHawkAtWork | Ellipsis: bah, take a piece and have fun. You can't possibly screw up. |
| 00:13.30 | buu | Ellipsis: You can like, solo it and there's no penalty for messing up. |
| 00:13.46 | Gnarfoz | if the other 9 ppl think they can just watch, too, then you will screw up ;D |
| 00:13.58 | buu | Well, yeah, but it doesn't matter. |
| 00:14.03 | NightHawkAtWork | yeah, but worst case is you wait 5 minutes for it to respawn |
| 00:14.05 | Gnarfoz | of course it doesn't |
| 00:14.13 | Gnarfoz | yeah, it's free loot ^^ |
| 00:14.28 | *** join/#wowace anko (n=root@207-38-219-18.c3-0.elm-ubr3.qens-elm.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 00:15.00 | buu | FREE LEWL CRAPPY LEWT. |
| 00:15.27 | Ellipsis | hm, ring is nice |
| 00:15.56 | NightHawkAtWork | there's a couple pieces i'd like on my shammy |
| 00:16.42 | buu | Ellipsis: You don't need crit, l2p. |
| 00:16.56 | Ellipsis | buu: it's an upgrade |
| 00:17.06 | buu | NightHawkAtWork: Too bad they finally made it bind to players in the instance =[ |
| 00:17.09 | buu | Ellipsis: From what? |
| 00:17.09 | Ellipsis | 10 more damage than my lame ring |
| 00:17.17 | Ellipsis | friendly violet signet |
| 00:17.30 | NightHawkAtWork | buu: it's kind of a shame, yeah, but only to be expected. |
| 00:17.52 | buu | Ellipsis: =[ |
| 00:18.03 | buu | Gah, I want to raid people. |
| 00:18.05 | buu | And I can't! |
| 00:18.49 | Ellipsis | doesn't matter anyway buu, lost the roll to a mage |
| 00:18.50 | Ellipsis | happy? :P |
| 00:19.01 | Antiarc | You can raid people |
| 00:19.02 | Antiarc | In fact |
| 00:19.07 | Antiarc | I raided your mom last night |
| 00:19.26 | NightHawkAtWork | read my mind, Antiarc. read my mind. |
| 00:19.51 | Antiarc | Great minds, NightHawkAtWork |
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| 00:21.01 | *** join/#wowace cncfanatic1 (i=evolve@81.19-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 00:21.11 | cncfanatic1 | buu, I want to raid too, and rerolling for that purpose :p u can do the same |
| 00:22.01 | buu | cncfanatic1: I don't need to reroll! I need to quit ym job obviously. |
| 00:22.11 | Chompers | Antiarc, the new NightHawk |
| 00:23.30 | cncfanatics | got to hate ghosts |
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| 00:26.14 | backbone87 | Antiarc: got the problem... calling print for 1000 times is not good -.- |
| 00:26.26 | Antiarc | Heheh, no |
| 00:26.32 | Antiarc | Prints slow you down more than most anything |
| 00:26.52 | backbone87 | 24 sec for 400M loops |
| 00:27.30 | backbone87 | good or not? |
| 00:27.31 | backbone87 | ^^ |
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| 00:29.11 | Ellipsis | so um |
| 00:29.14 | Ellipsis | enfeeble hurts? |
| 00:29.47 | Gnarfoz | Ellipsis: first karazhan run? |
| 00:29.51 | NightHawkAtWork | enfeeble doesn't hurt. |
| 00:29.52 | Kalroth | on Prince? Only if you try to hug him while you're enfeebled :) |
| 00:29.57 | NightHawkAtWork | it's the shadow nova that hurts |
| 00:31.28 | NightHawkAtWork | Ellipsis: basically, enfeeble hits some number of targets that arn't prince's current target (ie, don't pull agro!), it reduces you to 1 hp, and sometime later prince does shadow nova, with like a 20 yard range. If you're enfeebled, don't be in that range. |
| 00:31.37 | NightHawkAtWork | oh, and don't be near an infernal. |
| 00:31.41 | Diao | try 30 yard range |
| 00:31.42 | Diao | :( |
| 00:31.45 | NightHawkAtWork | is it 30? |
| 00:31.47 | Diao | yeah |
| 00:31.50 | Diao | or 35 |
| 00:31.51 | Diao | something like that |
| 00:31.57 | Diao | cause i've been hit while at max caster range |
| 00:31.59 | NightHawkAtWork | meh, I've only done it as a tank and a resto shammy, so i've no idea |
| 00:32.09 | Kalroth | 25 |
| 00:32.20 | Kalroth | http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=38627 |
| 00:32.22 | Diao | in any case, it's safest just to run to 40 yards |
| 00:32.22 | Diao | lol |
| 00:32.31 | NightHawkAtWork | yeah, basically, run to your healers :P |
| 00:32.35 | Kalroth | If it's the right speed, lemme check |
| 00:33.00 | Diao | dps warriors have it easy if they don't lag |
| 00:33.02 | Diao | intervene macro on a healer |
| 00:33.03 | Ellipsis | Gnarfoz: sorta, I've done bits and pieces, never the end bits except netherspite |
| 00:33.28 | Kalroth | It might be http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=30852 - so 30 yards |
| 00:33.49 | *** join/#wowace starlon (n=starlon@melody.lyrical.net) |
| 00:33.49 | Diao | yeah that's the one |
| 00:33.55 | Diao | other shadow nova is arcatraz version i think |
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| 00:34.00 | Kalroth | Ah yes |
| 00:34.10 | NightHawkAtWork | there's a shadow nova in arcatraz? |
| 00:34.16 | Diao | first boss? |
| 00:34.22 | NightHawkAtWork | oh right |
| 00:34.28 | Kalroth | The one everyone skips on heroic :P |
| 00:35.04 | Ellipsis | that guy is easy |
| 00:35.17 | Ellipsis | he's like, one of my favorite 5man bosses evar |
| 00:35.36 | Kalroth | Well I don't mind him after I got my BT SR gear made :) |
| 00:35.41 | Diao | lol |
| 00:35.47 | NightHawkAtWork | bah. as a resto shammy, with a pally tank, blackheart is my favorite boss in 5 mans :P |
| 00:36.39 | Diao | o_o |
| 00:36.41 | Diao | why pally |
| 00:36.42 | *** part/#wowace Hesselgrinch (n=hess@81-233-194-246-no88.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 00:37.14 | NightHawkAtWork | BoW, BoP, ranged taunt |
| 00:37.42 | NightHawkAtWork | plus the ability to throw themselves an emergency heal if i get knocked halfway across the room |
| 00:38.59 | NightHawkAtWork | I've basically duo'd non-heroic blackheart with a pally. Took forever, but it was damn awesome. |
| 00:39.04 | NightHawkAtWork | in any case, I'm heading home. later. |
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| 00:48.43 | Antiarc | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2765966651&sid=1 |
| 00:48.45 | Antiarc | Epic thread title. |
| 00:49.41 | Funkeh` | k |
| 00:49.48 | Funkeh` | all 4 city horde bosses dead |
| 00:49.56 | Funkeh` | that was fun |
| 00:49.57 | Gagorian | Antiarc: hahaha priceless :D |
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| 01:29.49 | starlon | Can you have multiple X-Category entries? |
| 01:30.03 | *** part/#wowace Someone (n=jegerher@ti131310a340-2367.bb.online.no) |
| 01:32.32 | CIA-7 | 03starlon * r53770 10FuryBars/ (. FuryBars.lua FuryBars.toc embeds.xml libs/): |
| 01:32.32 | CIA-7 | FuryBars: initial commit |
| 01:32.32 | CIA-7 | - Timer bars and warnings for dps warriors |
| 01:33.56 | Kaydeethree | new PTR client! current build: 7521. diffs at http://spyglass-server.com/wowints/ |
| 01:35.30 | Funkeh` | Kaydeethree, <3 again |
| 01:37.27 | *** join/#wowace Tuller (n=chatzill@c-76-27-166-119.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 01:39.17 | Antiarc | When did the new client get pushed? |
| 01:39.45 | Kaydeethree | PTRs went down around 2:40 ago, client got pushed at least 90 minutes ago iirc |
| 01:39.58 | Kaydeethree | would've had it up sooner but I'm trying to get around an anaconda bug in f8rc3 on my new computer |
| 01:40.10 | Antiarc | +SPELL_FAILED_BM_OR_INVISGOD = "The spell cannot be cast on beastmaster or invis god targets."; |
| 01:40.11 | Antiarc | What. |
| 01:40.49 | Adys | * Yes, in 2.4 the combat-log will be adjusted. Names, spells, event etc will be coloured. The combat-log will no longer send a single text but an event. It will even introduce easier filtering on the fly. Last but not least you can have a full event history. |
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| 01:42.04 | Megalon | Antiarc: i has skipped teh english ;/ |
| 01:42.48 | Antiarc | Mmm. The realms seem to be down. |
| 01:43.05 | Stanzilla | yup |
| 01:43.10 | Antiarc | Wish I still had that code to pull talent trees out of the DBCs |
| 01:43.16 | Antiarc | Lemme see.... |
| 01:43.33 | xyu | can you inspect others' talents in 2.3? |
| 01:43.53 | Kaydeethree | yes |
| 01:44.31 | Lukian | more importantly they mentioned an update to the LFM system -- which will hopefully display talents and take them into account when match-making ^^ |
| 01:44.41 | xyu | that'd be nice |
| 01:44.52 | xyu | so many times do i write in big annoying capped chars SHADOW. |
| 01:44.56 | xyu | "hey mind healing heroic mech?" |
| 01:45.07 | sb | starlon: screenshot :o |
| 01:45.30 | Lukian | xyu: With the number of people I spam message when looking for a group, I prefer it if you don't reply :) |
| 01:46.15 | *** join/#wowace seXemplar (n=nnscript@124-171-136-228.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:46.18 | buu | Nobody wants shadow priests. |
| 01:46.27 | Lukian | I do |
| 01:46.31 | buu | NOBODY. |
| 01:46.37 | Lukian | they are awesome in 5mans with a paladin healer |
| 01:46.48 | buu | 25 man holy priest raid. |
| 01:46.53 | buu | Crazy smite dps. |
| 01:47.02 | anko | omg I <3 shadow priests in raids |
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| 01:47.37 | Stanzilla | < shadow priest |
| 01:47.56 | anko | <3 <3! |
| 01:48.09 | Stanzilla | ^^ |
| 01:48.13 | anko | < Mage |
| 01:48.46 | Stanzilla | frost? |
| 01:48.59 | anko | nah arcane |
| 01:49.15 | anko | but planning to go back to fire in 2.3 |
| 01:53.51 | CIA-7 | 03starlon * r53771 10FuryBars/ (. embeds.xml): |
| 01:53.51 | CIA-7 | FuryBars: |
| 01:53.51 | CIA-7 | - Externals |
| 01:54.03 | buu | Spriests are only good in raids =[ |
| 01:54.16 | Stanzilla | not true :D |
| 01:55.35 | anko | I've run five mans with an spriest before, didn't have any problems |
| 01:56.04 | anko | there's a big difference between good and bad ones though |
| 01:56.52 | Stanzilla | + there's a huge gear dependency |
| 02:00.01 | *** join/#wowace Inc` (n=mgast@pool-71-170-109-250.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:01.42 | Wobin | I ran a 5 man with a shadow priest last night, as a holy priest |
| 02:01.50 | Wobin | I was almost secondary healing on the trash |
| 02:02.07 | fridgid | who runs the CIA-7 etc bots? |
| 02:02.07 | Wobin | Didn't have to do much, just throw a renew now and again =P |
| 02:03.57 | Tuller | ace3 has increased combuctor's efficiency by over five thousand percent! :) |
| 02:06.56 | nekoh | -.- |
| 02:07.33 | *** join/#wowace Shadowed (i=outlaw@12.157.177.180) |
| 02:09.08 | CIA-7 | 03starlon * r53772 10DebuffAlarm/: |
| 02:09.08 | CIA-7 | DebuffAlarm: |
| 02:09.08 | CIA-7 | - Fix a typo in externals |
| 02:09.10 | CIA-7 | 03arkayenro * r53773 10ArkInventory/ (13 files in 2 dirs): |
| 02:09.10 | CIA-7 | ArkInventory: |
| 02:09.10 | CIA-7 | - 2.10g |
| 02:11.23 | fridgid | rawr rest |
| 02:11.27 | fridgid | s/rest/test |
| 02:11.34 | Industrial | DING 54 |
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| 02:18.33 | rubik | sylv of fin around? |
| 02:18.53 | rubik | trying to figure out why Prat doesn't filter out BG join/leave spam even though i have it set to |
| 02:19.25 | rubik | and it looks like the matching patterns are commented out in modules\Filtering.lua? was wondering why? |
| 02:27.12 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Industrial: 54 eh? isn't that some kind of record for you? |
| 02:28.41 | Industrial | NightHawkTheSan1: ongoing yes |
| 02:28.42 | Industrial | :D |
| 02:28.49 | Industrial | 55 tomorrow >?:P |
| 02:28.49 | NightHawkTheSan1 | heh, grats :) |
| 02:29.15 | NightHawkTheSan1 | ooh, with luck, you'll see outland within a week :D |
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| 02:33.06 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Hmm, do gems that have +spell damage also have +healing? |
| 02:33.20 | Shirik|AFK | yes |
| 02:33.26 | NightHawkTheSan1 | thanks |
| 02:33.28 | Shirik|AFK | they won't say it though |
| 02:33.31 | NightHawkTheSan1 | yeah |
| 02:33.35 | NightHawkTheSan1 | which is why i asked. :) |
| 02:33.37 | Arrowmaster | everything that gives +dmg also gives +healing |
| 02:33.51 | Arrowmaster | unless its a specific school of +dmg |
| 02:34.15 | Shirik|AFK | my +holy damage cape doesn't give +healing =( |
| 02:34.16 | Shirik|AFK | it sucks |
| 02:34.24 | NightHawkTheSan1 | That kind of makes me cry, then, that certain pieces of my elemental gear are about as good as my healing gear. >< |
| 02:34.41 | Shirik|AFK | healing gear is easy to get :) |
| 02:34.41 | NightHawkTheSan1 | (translation: i need upgrades for those pieces of healing gear, desperately) |
| 02:35.12 | Shirik|AFK | what class is your healer? |
| 02:35.16 | NightHawkTheSan1 | shaman |
| 02:35.25 | Shirik|AFK | ah, so I wouldn't recommend looking at my page :P |
| 02:35.27 | NightHawkTheSan1 | hence why i said "elemental gear" ;) |
| 02:35.39 | Shirik|AFK | yeah but I thought maybe they were two different chars |
| 02:35.50 | NightHawkTheSan1 | ah, nah |
| 02:35.52 | Shirik|AFK | anyway, food /afk |
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| 02:44.29 | aestil | http://bayimg.com/oaHndAABn |
| 02:44.40 | aestil | whats going on with the ToToT frame in that picture? |
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| 02:45.27 | aestil | ckknight: have you seen this before? |
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| 02:55.37 | CIA-7 | 03kandarz * r53774 10EveryQuest/Quests/HOutland_Data.lua: EveryQuest: - Horde outland double quote fix |
| 02:56.19 | *** join/#wowace ckknight_ (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 02:56.19 | *** mode/#wowace [+o ckknight_] by ChanServ |
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| 03:19.23 | Antiarc | Whoa! |
| 03:19.26 | Antiarc | They changed Hemo |
| 03:19.29 | Antiarc | It's 125% weapon damage now |
| 03:19.34 | Antiarc | That makes it....pretty damn good. |
| 03:19.48 | Moozh | as well as increasing the damage per hit on the debuff, and decreasing its charges |
| 03:19.59 | Funkeh` | Antiarc, about as cool as going deep ass |
| 03:20.01 | Antiarc | Well, that was known in previous patches |
| 03:20.16 | Antiarc | Hrm. A hemo trispec looks like sexy now. |
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| 03:20.54 | *** part/#wowace Nightdew_ (n=Nightdew@c-24-30-17-122.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 03:24.04 | *** join/#wowace [DD]Geck (n=Geck@86.155.237.128) |
| 03:24.18 | *** part/#wowace [DD]Geck (n=Geck@86.155.237.128) |
| 03:24.51 | CIA-7 | 03starlon * r53775 10FuryBars/ (FuryBars.lua FuryBars.toc): |
| 03:24.51 | CIA-7 | FuryBars: |
| 03:24.51 | CIA-7 | - Option to toggle 5 second warning sound |
| 03:25.14 | Antiarc | Wow. That's going to push the per-strike damage way above a combat build. |
| 03:25.16 | Antiarc | Iiiiinteresting. |
| 03:25.23 | Antiarc | Even without the debuff. |
| 03:30.22 | CIA-7 | 03ananhaid * r53776 10BigWigs/ (4 files in 4 dirs): |
| 03:30.22 | CIA-7 | BigWigs: |
| 03:30.22 | CIA-7 | - zhCN updated |
| 03:32.19 | *** join/#wowace anko (n=root@207-38-219-18.c3-0.elm-ubr3.qens-elm.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 03:33.57 | Lukian | lol @ nauticus using a 'hidden' channel :p |
| 03:34.07 | Lukian | it override my /1 on a new server I rolled on |
| 03:34.57 | *** join/#wowace gnor (n=jaydee@cpe-76-170-71-236.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 03:35.23 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Antiarc: woah, hemo does 125% weapon damage? o_0 |
| 03:35.30 | Antiarc | Yeah, plus the debuff. |
| 03:35.30 | NightHawkTheSan1 | or rather, will in 2.3 i assume |
| 03:35.46 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Damn, i think hemo builds were already reasonably competetive with combat/swords |
| 03:36.30 | Kalroth | They aren't currently |
| 03:40.07 | Antiarc | They can be, except on bleed immunes. |
| 03:41.25 | *** join/#wowace Lothaer (n=Jamie@CPE-139-168-214-20.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 03:41.30 | Lothaer | G'Day |
| 03:42.48 | Lothaer | wow ghost town today lol |
| 03:42.53 | Lukian | umm, what happens if you group with someone with the same name as your pet? (re: damage meters) |
| 03:43.59 | Lothaer | i think that if it is spelt exactly the same their dps would be joined because mods can determin whos pet is whos |
| 03:44.08 | Lothaer | cant* |
| 03:44.43 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Indeed |
| 03:46.39 | Lothaer | i tried adding a new sound effect to Omen myself but to no avail /cry |
| 03:47.08 | Antiarc | You should just be able to add it to SharedMedia |
| 03:48.38 | Antiarc | Mmm. My hemo is landing for about 1700 on cloth. |
| 03:48.49 | Lothaer | i was trying to add the "aggro" sound from BanzaiAlert |
| 03:49.07 | Lothaer | via the OmenMenu.lua |
| 03:49.28 | starlon | Can an addon have more than 1 X-Category? |
| 03:50.56 | Lothaer | what i did was create a new folder in Omen called Sounds and copied and pasted the babe.mp3 into is then added this line |
| 03:50.57 | Lothaer | SML:Register("sound", "Aggro", [[Interface\\AddOns\\Omen\\Sounds\\babe.mp3]] |
| 03:51.11 | Antiarc | You're missing a closing parentheses |
| 03:51.28 | Lothaer | no i just didnt copy the entire line lol |
| 03:51.29 | Lothaer | its there |
| 03:51.51 | Lothaer | when i clicked on the button there wasnt a error but the sound didnt play |
| 03:53.02 | Nargiddley | take out the double \ |
| 03:53.09 | Nargiddley | you dont need it with [[ ]] around the string |
| 03:53.17 | Lothaer | kk thanks will try bbr |
| 03:53.20 | CIA-7 | 03ananhaid * r53777 10BigWigs/BlackTemple/Najentus.lua: |
| 03:53.20 | CIA-7 | BigWigs: |
| 03:53.20 | CIA-7 | - Najentus zhCN update |
| 03:54.50 | Lothaer | tyvm Nargiddley |
| 03:55.05 | Lothaer | you to Antiarc |
| 03:58.13 | the-golem | ... |
| 03:58.19 | Lothaer | .... |
| 03:59.04 | the-golem | ok, tabula rasa ad on wowace .. and the Tabula Rasa chick looks like .. the lady from Resident Evil (movies) whos name escapes me |
| 03:59.22 | CIA-7 | 03funkydude * r53778 10BigWigs/Hyjal/HyjalSummit.lua: BigWigs: Hyjal/HyjalSummit: Add some localization for wave descriptions. |
| 03:59.31 | *** join/#wowace quoin (n=quoin@219-90-163-74.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 03:59.58 | Lothaer | Alice? |
| 03:59.59 | CIA-7 | 03daviesh * r53779 10AtlasLoot_SetsandPvP/ (GeneralPvP.en.lua sets.en.lua): |
| 03:59.59 | CIA-7 | AtlasLoot_SetsandPvP: |
| 03:59.59 | CIA-7 | - Migrated Patch 2.3 changes to AceSVN |
| 04:00.16 | backbone87 | ckknight_: ping |
| 04:01.04 | Lothaer | does any1 know if the bablefish mod is bannable? |
| 04:01.13 | Antiarc | Yes |
| 04:01.36 | Lothaer | kk not getting that then dont want ot risk my account |
| 04:01.41 | CIA-7 | 03daviesh * r53780 10AtlasLoot_OldInstances/original.en.lua: |
| 04:01.41 | CIA-7 | AtlasLoot_OldInstances: |
| 04:01.41 | CIA-7 | - Migrated Patch 2.3 quality changes to AceSVN |
| 04:01.51 | Kalroth | Antiarc: ambiguous answers suck! :p |
| 04:02.06 | Funkeh` | bannable? |
| 04:02.08 | Funkeh` | lol |
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| 04:03.52 | Lothaer | sup funk |
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| 04:05.15 | CIA-7 | 03starlon * r53781 10FuryBars/FuryBars.lua: |
| 04:05.15 | CIA-7 | FuryBars: |
| 04:05.15 | CIA-7 | - Typo |
| 04:06.06 | *** join/#wowace Mire (n=Mire@huntersrun-cm-195.usa2net.net) |
| 04:06.25 | Lukian | phyber, around? |
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| 04:15.54 | Lothaer | any1 here got there hands on Hellgate London yet? |
| 04:16.04 | *** join/#wowace ScoTTie_ (i=spriite@unaffiliated/scottie) |
| 04:16.24 | ulic | I think people were talking earlier and saying how bad it was. But I don't. |
| 04:16.24 | CIA-7 | 03samuelcup * r53782 10Incubator/ (Incubator.toc Locale-zhCN.lua): Incubator: zhCN translation added |
| 04:16.54 | Lothaer | i wonder if there is a trial verion like the WoW trial games |
| 04:17.50 | the-golem | nah |
| 04:17.57 | the-golem | i knew a guy who was doing the beta |
| 04:18.02 | the-golem | and he was loving it |
| 04:18.02 | Megalon | you buy the game, and you get the trial version |
| 04:18.08 | the-golem | s/knew/know |
| 04:18.14 | Megalon | when you pay for online modus, you get the full version :P |
| 04:18.26 | Lothaer | interesting |
| 04:18.50 | Lothaer | well off to the PTR maybe ill get a good ZA group |
| 04:18.51 | Lothaer | laterz |
| 04:19.16 | Megalon | friend of mine only told me that it isn't really bugfree |
| 04:19.25 | Megalon | and that everything looks the same |
| 04:23.01 | Wobin | Someone was saying it looks 10 years old |
| 04:23.04 | Wobin | and was full of bugs |
| 04:26.54 | the-golem | ... |
| 04:26.55 | the-golem | NOTHING |
| 04:27.08 | the-golem | is bugfree when its an mmo type game |
| 04:27.35 | *** join/#wowace Nefarion (n=chatzill@d149-67-111-10.clv.wideopenwest.com) |
| 04:28.06 | Xinhuan | Antiarc: i've narrowed down that right-clicking the "new version available" text causes an error, and this is right-clickable even if omen is hidden |
| 04:30.08 | aestil | http://bayimg.com/oaHndAABn anyone have an explanation for the ToToT frame? |
| 04:33.06 | Nefarion | um what? |
| 04:33.21 | Moozh | totot frame has a stretched icon |
| 04:33.33 | aestil | i have portraits turned off completely. |
| 04:33.40 | tinyboom | the-golem: Milla Jovovich or something (resident evul chick) :) Good night Folks |
| 04:34.27 | Moozh | its milla jovovich also the chick from the 5th element? |
| 04:34.55 | Nefarion | aestil, PitBull? |
| 04:35.10 | aestil | yes. |
| 04:35.34 | Nefarion | yeah that pops up sometimes. it's very rare. i assume it's from improper recycling. |
| 04:35.49 | Nefarion | never had it happen enough to bother looking into it |
| 04:35.52 | *** join/#wowace |Stan| (n=Stanzill@p549949F0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:36.00 | CIA-7 | 03kemayo * r53783 10BankStack/sort.lua: BankStack: Improve sort of trade goods. |
| 04:36.05 | Nefarion | but ckk would know more about what is happening |
| 04:36.20 | Nefarion | pretty nice ui btw =) |
| 04:36.58 | the-golem | yeah |
| 04:37.02 | the-golem | her ^^ |
| 04:38.15 | aestil | ckknight_: ping |
| 04:38.19 | the-golem | i dont use totot frame |
| 04:38.20 | the-golem | but |
| 04:38.57 | the-golem | i got errors liike that when i was trying to import layouts, and had something disabled on my layout, thus tainting my recycle |
| 04:39.03 | Nefarion | imo extending it that far begins to require too much thought to make it efficient...unless you give enough time to get well used-to it. |
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| 04:39.15 | Nefarion | the totot frame.. |
| 04:39.28 | the-golem | i dont use totot |
| 04:39.35 | Nefarion | well, maybe 1 more would be too far |
| 04:39.54 | the-golem | as a tank, i need to know if my target is attacking me, or if hes not |
| 04:40.05 | Nefarion | tot is of course a must =) |
| 04:40.12 | the-golem | of course |
| 04:40.17 | kenlyric | totot is a healer frame |
| 04:40.36 | aestil | kenlyric: win. |
| 04:40.38 | kenlyric | because sometimes you want to know what the boss is targetting if he isn't targetting the tank and you are. |
| 04:40.45 | aestil | i'm not a healer anymore, but its information i'm used to having. |
| 04:41.04 | the-golem | kenlyric: ah that makes perfect sense then |
| 04:41.35 | the-golem | aestil: nice ui btw |
| 04:41.37 | kenlyric | such as - if you wanna see who maiden is going to holy fire a split second before she does, totot is your friend. |
| 04:41.39 | aestil | ty. |
| 04:41.50 | the-golem | is that an eepanel border |
| 04:41.52 | the-golem | ? |
| 04:41.52 | aestil | i'm somewhat happy with it. i sorta stopped before i finished with my 'plan' |
| 04:41.57 | aestil | yes. |
| 04:42.06 | aestil | i just left it as is, for functionality |
| 04:42.14 | kenlyric | though honestly, most of the totot stuff I get from grid now. |
| 04:42.52 | the-golem | is that bongos2? |
| 04:43.32 | *** join/#wowace anko (n=root@207-38-219-18.c3-0.elm-ubr3.qens-elm.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 04:43.43 | aestil | no. |
| 04:43.45 | aestil | BT3. |
| 04:43.52 | aestil | i like bongos2 better though. |
| 04:43.53 | kenlyric | totot used to make stuff like broodlord and razorgore simplesauce. |
| 04:44.03 | aestil | but lots of effort to change, since i made the eepanels already. |
| 04:44.05 | the-golem | ah |
| 04:44.11 | the-golem | i got BT3, i dont like it at all |
| 04:44.28 | the-golem | once i get by new compy up and running, totally getting bongos2 again |
| 04:45.34 | *** join/#wowace liquidzoo (n=liquidzo@ip68-230-116-75.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 04:45.36 | aestil | http://surl.se/garq |
| 04:45.40 | aestil | much better screen. |
| 04:45.44 | the-golem | looks like you got ... general stuff, guild/officer chats, party/raid chats, and scl |
| 04:45.51 | aestil | for some reasons my screenshots don't really look very nice. |
| 04:45.57 | Moozh | wow |
| 04:45.58 | the-golem | not a bad idea there |
| 04:46.00 | Moozh | i like that mouseover |
| 04:46.01 | Moozh | a lot |
| 04:46.03 | Moozh | gimme |
| 04:46.23 | aestil | yeah, left is general/trade/LFG/say/yell nonsense |
| 04:46.30 | aestil | left middle is guild/officer/whisper |
| 04:46.38 | aestil | middle right is bg/raid/party |
| 04:46.41 | aestil | far right is SCL |
| 04:46.47 | Moozh | and your bagmod is hot |
| 04:46.53 | aestil | bag mod is just baggins |
| 04:46.56 | the-golem | lmao |
| 04:47.01 | the-golem | got enuff mana pots there |
| 04:47.03 | the-golem | :P |
| 04:47.07 | aestil | no. :( |
| 04:47.11 | the-golem | hehehe |
| 04:47.15 | aestil | KT 2 nights this week, i will probably use them all. |
| 04:47.16 | *** join/#wowace anko (n=root@207-38-219-18.c3-0.elm-ubr3.qens-elm.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 04:47.33 | Moozh | that looks like its 1280x1024 :< |
| 04:47.40 | the-golem | bigger |
| 04:47.42 | aestil | my resolutioin? |
| 04:47.44 | aestil | :) |
| 04:47.46 | the-golem | looks widescreen |
| 04:47.48 | aestil | try much bigger. |
| 04:47.52 | Moozh | wah |
| 04:47.57 | aestil | 1920x1200 |
| 04:47.59 | the-golem | 1680x1050 id say |
| 04:48.01 | the-golem | ooooh |
| 04:48.03 | Moozh | i can't even handle 1280x1024, much less bigger than that |
| 04:48.07 | the-golem | even bigger P |
| 04:48.08 | aestil | handle? |
| 04:48.18 | Moozh | computer goes chop chop chop at 1280 |
| 04:48.30 | the-golem | i just got a new screen |
| 04:48.34 | the-golem | its so puuurdy |
| 04:48.36 | aestil | the beauty to the UI, is actually the grid eepanels, which resize based on party/raid size |
| 04:48.51 | aestil | and when i lose my target, the eepanels disappear. |
| 04:49.03 | aestil | when i gaiin a target, it doesn't grow unless my target has a target. |
| 04:49.09 | aestil | so its not big unnecsiarliy. |
| 04:49.12 | the-golem | aestil: parented to the unitframes, eh? |
| 04:49.16 | Moozh | nice |
| 04:49.21 | aestil | its more than that though. |
| 04:49.30 | the-golem | well |
| 04:49.30 | Nefarion | aestil, your target/player frames don't look like they're perfectly centered. =) and imo you should retool the tooltip, top panel, bars in the top corner and bag frame to match the bottom panels |
| 04:49.33 | aestil | a script checks to see if the ToT frame exists, and grows the frame. |
| 04:49.39 | Nefarion | other than that pretty decent layout |
| 04:49.41 | the-golem | parented plus a wee bit of scripting |
| 04:49.50 | the-golem | aestil: if ToT is self, does it show? |
| 04:50.07 | aestil | yes. |
| 04:50.10 | the-golem | bah |
| 04:50.17 | the-golem | i really hate that |
| 04:50.18 | aestil | Nefarion: the tooltip is exactly something stock out of cowtip |
| 04:50.24 | the-golem | i dont care unless its NOT me ^^ |
| 04:50.39 | aestil | my player frame and target frame are exactly centered as far as i know. |
| 04:50.40 | Nefarion | i mean the tooltip's skin |
| 04:50.53 | aestil | i didn't change anything special. |
| 04:50.55 | Nefarion | buttons off? something is. |
| 04:50.56 | aestil | thats just cowtip. |
| 04:51.17 | aestil | buttons are scaled. |
| 04:51.37 | Moozh | that bag is pretty sexy, i'll need to get that mod |
| 04:51.38 | aestil | because of the cycircled skin, they are smaller than they shoudl be. |
| 04:51.42 | the-golem | Nefarion: looks fine to me |
| 04:52.08 | the-golem | i think the tot throws things off |
| 04:52.11 | aestil | i don't think its off though, the right sidie of the player frame is just past the 5 button. |
| 04:52.22 | aestil | the left side of the target frame is just past the 8 button. |
| 04:52.34 | aestil | the-golem: this script is pet friendly. |
| 04:52.48 | aestil | if i have a pet, he is right below my player frame on the lft, and his target is just to the right of that. |
| 04:52.55 | the-golem | oooh |
| 04:52.56 | the-golem | niice |
| 04:53.00 | aestil | my lock and hunter look identical, but the eepanels behave properly. |
| 04:53.07 | aestil | admitedly, it doesn't look as good on my priest. |
| 04:53.15 | aestil | for priest what would look best is the 'stacked' look |
| 04:53.24 | aestil | me, target, TOT, TOTOT |
| 04:53.26 | aestil | going 'up' |
| 04:53.29 | the-golem | i like the stacked look |
| 04:53.31 | the-golem | for my warrior |
| 04:53.32 | aestil | yes. |
| 04:53.36 | the-golem | but looks off on my hunter |
| 04:53.39 | aestil | but, because i play alts. |
| 04:53.41 | *** join/#wowace Neebler (n=BuM@adsl-69-228-116-142.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:53.49 | the-golem | cuz i cant fit my pet anywhere :-( |
| 04:53.49 | aestil | i like a consistnat look across them all. |
| 04:54.05 | Nefarion | bah healing and tanking classes complicate things |
| 04:54.13 | Nefarion | dpsers can enjoy such a cleaner ui |
| 04:54.14 | Moozh | i can't stand having the same UI across multiple characters unless two characters are of the same class |
| 04:54.19 | the-golem | hehe |
| 04:54.49 | the-golem | i can |
| 04:54.51 | the-golem | well |
| 04:54.58 | the-golem | same style of ui |
| 04:55.01 | the-golem | not the same layout |
| 04:56.21 | Nefarion | looking at uis and through the threads really made me wish i had the heart to go deep into my ui like i used to. =/ i'm running a pretty simplistic (and for my taste bulky) ui at the moment. it would be nice to rock it out with some awesome demonic warlock graphics and an awesome true dpser's layout. |
| 04:56.41 | aestil | bah, i hate those kind of graphics. |
| 04:56.52 | Nefarion | no, i mean well done lol |
| 04:56.56 | Moozh | i miss windows xp. upgrading to vista ate my resources, and now i can hardly use a full UI modification package |
| 04:57.06 | Nefarion | i haven't yet seen a ui that employs graphics in a truly appealing way |
| 04:57.13 | Nefarion | most people are so damned sloppy |
| 04:57.14 | Moozh | blue wizard needs hardware upgrade, badly |
| 04:57.34 | Lyfe | buy a mac. |
| 04:57.44 | Nefarion | buy a pc |
| 04:57.48 | Moozh | not until mac supports Portals |
| 04:58.04 | Lyfe | Portals, as in the game? |
| 04:58.22 | Moozh | when all my windows apps are ported over to mac, and when i can upgrade the hardware on my mac without blowing something up, then i'll buy a mac |
| 04:58.29 | Lyfe | hehehe. |
| 04:58.41 | Nefarion | why not just buy a pc then? |
| 04:58.46 | Lyfe | well, you can upgrade hardware in a mac, you just have to make sure it's going to work first. |
| 04:58.48 | Nefarion | windiws |
| 04:58.51 | Nefarion | o* |
| 04:59.06 | Moozh | i only keep my pc around because A) it was free, B) i can tinker and replace the hardware, C) windows runs all the apps i want to run, while macs don't |
| 04:59.23 | anko | leopard does look sexy though |
| 04:59.38 | Nefarion | and i see no reason there for disliking a pc and preferring a mac alternative.. |
| 04:59.50 | Moozh | i don't dislike pc's |
| 04:59.53 | anko | but I still use windows for all the reasons above |
| 04:59.54 | Moozh | mine needs an upgrade |
| 04:59.56 | Thrae | I plan on my next PC being Quad-Core and installing OSX in a VM. |
| 05:00.00 | Moozh | i need to stop using a 32 bit processor |
| 05:00.00 | Nefarion | so stop being cheap |
| 05:00.02 | Nefarion | =P |
| 05:00.06 | Moozh | i'm poor :P |
| 05:00.16 | Nefarion | bah, quad core isn't necessary yet |
| 05:00.17 | Lyfe | heh. |
| 05:00.40 | the-golem | upgrade to XP |
| 05:00.51 | Thrae | Nefarion: Depends on what you're using it for -- combining a workstation + dev box, it'll be mighty useful |
| 05:00.53 | Moozh | thinking about it |
| 05:00.57 | the-golem | Vista is shite |
| 05:01.00 | Nefarion | i suppose Thrae |
| 05:01.04 | Moozh | switching from xp to vista dropped my fps by 30 |
| 05:01.13 | Kaydeethree | meh, I just bought a core 2 quad, not much more expensive than the core 2 duo at the same processor rating on newegg |
| 05:01.18 | Lyfe | switching from tiger to leopard increased my fps by 30. :) |
| 05:01.25 | nymbia | O.o |
| 05:01.28 | Thrae | Nefarion: Set professor affinity in the host OS for each VM installed ;) |
| 05:01.32 | Nefarion | yeah and i been hearing horrid shit about its sound. directx 10 doesn't support hardware accel.. |
| 05:01.33 | the-golem | KD3, i just got a core 2 duo |
| 05:01.36 | Kaydeethree | still trying to figure out how I intend to use that much horsepower upgrading from a p4 2.4 w/o HT |
| 05:01.38 | the-golem | upgrade from a P4 |
| 05:01.39 | the-golem | lawl |
| 05:01.57 | anko | how is running games on a mac anyways? |
| 05:02.01 | the-golem | Q series is way to pricy for me |
| 05:02.06 | Nefarion | ooh i'm on a p4 2.6 =P lol |
| 05:02.07 | NightHawkTheSan1 | Lyfe: what hardware you running? |
| 05:02.09 | the-golem | i went witha nice E4500 |
| 05:02.11 | Nefarion | it sucks right? |
| 05:02.18 | the-golem | yeah |
| 05:02.19 | NightHawkTheSan1 | anko: if you've got a recent model intel mac, it's exactly the same as on windows, really |
| 05:02.30 | Lyfe | NightHawkTheSan1: 1st-gen macbook pro.. not quite 30fps, but it's pretty good. |
| 05:02.44 | NightHawkTheSan1 | cool |
| 05:02.50 | aestil | ckknight_: ping |
| 05:03.05 | NightHawkTheSan1 | i've got an old 1.6ghz g5 tower, planning on installing leopard this weekend |
| 05:03.12 | the-golem | aestil: ping^-1 |
| 05:03.13 | the-golem | :P |
| 05:03.14 | *** join/#wowace anko (n=root@207-38-219-18.c3-0.elm-ubr3.qens-elm.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 05:03.23 | *** part/#wowace anko (n=root@207-38-219-18.c3-0.elm-ubr3.qens-elm.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 05:03.28 | Lyfe | i mean, there was a bug with something in wow + tiger that my system seemed to tend to cap at 30fps, and now it's pretty unrestricted, tends to stay up near the 60's. |
| 05:03.37 | *** join/#wowace anko (n=root@207-38-219-18.c3-0.elm-ubr3.qens-elm.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 05:04.15 | the-golem | Lyfe: yeah, im pretty much capped at 30 on my PC too |
| 05:04.18 | the-golem | well |
| 05:04.33 | the-golem | last couple weeks i was lucky if i could get above 15 |
| 05:04.34 | Nefarion | i'm capped at ~12-4 |
| 05:04.37 | Nefarion | 12-14* |
| 05:04.45 | Lyfe | the-golem: well, that sucks.. cause this thing does that without skipping a beat. |
| 05:04.50 | the-golem | today, i was seeing 50+, lol |
| 05:05.12 | NightHawkTheSan1 | hmm.. so far, tonights sg:a looks very good. |
| 05:05.22 | the-golem | oh shit |
| 05:05.24 | the-golem | its friday |
| 05:05.28 | the-golem | i knew i was missing something |
| 05:05.30 | Moozh | tgif? |
| 05:05.33 | NightHawkTheSan1 | indeed. |
| 05:05.34 | Moozh | rofl, missing a day? |
| 05:05.35 | Lyfe | i get 15fps when i switch out of wow and it starts implementing framerate limiting to help the performance of other applications :) |
| 05:05.35 | the-golem | oh wel |
| 05:05.37 | the-golem | l |
| 05:06.27 | the-golem | heh |
| 05:06.47 | the-golem | if wow active give good FPS, if not, dont give it any :P |
| 05:06.51 | Nefarion | hmm.. is the minimap really all that necessary? |
| 05:06.58 | NightHawkTheSan1 | what's slightly disturbing is that it's 10pm here (pst), and i'm already watching a downloaded torrent of the latest sg:a |
| 05:07.09 | aestil | Nefarion: i tried hiding it. i hated not having it. |
| 05:07.18 | Xinhuan | minimap shows party locations, quest objectives, flag capturing status, herb/mining nodes, hunter tracking, etc |
| 05:07.23 | aestil | that reminds me, i need to d/l 30 rock. |
| 05:07.29 | Moozh | sleep time |
| 05:07.31 | Nefarion | i could see why i would hate not seeing it, but i'm not entirely sure i ever use it |
| 05:07.32 | Xinhuan | can't really dispense it with some professions/classes |
| 05:07.49 | Nefarion | hunter with no gathering |
| 05:07.51 | Nefarion | err |
| 05:07.55 | Nefarion | warlock with no gathering |
| 05:08.50 | Lyfe | the-golem: actually, that's basically what it does. it's very very nice, cause it runs at a speed which you can still see stuff happen, but which still gives you good performance in other apps. |
| 05:09.02 | Nefarion | anyone know of any dark, demonic UIs? |
| 05:09.03 | anko | just hotkey show/hiding your minimal |
| 05:09.06 | Nefarion | i need some ideas |
| 05:09.17 | anko | er minimap |
| 05:09.24 | aestil | you mean UI's filled with art that look terribad? |
| 05:09.31 | Nefarion | lol no |
| 05:09.45 | Neebler | http://silentwulf.com/flash/Crazy%20cat.swf |
| 05:09.47 | *** join/#wowace `Zypher (n=zypher@adsl-69-109-122-214.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 05:09.53 | Nefarion | UIs with a demono-gothic theme, fitting the warlock |
| 05:10.23 | Neebler | where have all the good UI artists gone? EQ 1 had them |
| 05:10.25 | aestil | is it my imagination, or does blizzards tga screenshot degrad the image somehow? |
| 05:10.28 | Nefarion | without going overboard and looking like a bad emo-goth band who you'd rather stab half to death than stand listening to |
| 05:10.38 | `Zypher | is there any hook in Ace2 that would cause a UI issue with adding a player to MT? |
| 05:10.42 | aestil | no one likes art. |
| 05:11.34 | NightHawkTheSan1 | art can suck me. |
| 05:11.54 | Nefarion | kinky |
| 05:11.59 | aestil | Ellipsis: hey. |
| 05:12.06 | NightHawkTheSan1 | yeah, but the statues kinda chafe |
| 05:13.16 | *** join/#wowace cog|away (n=chatzill@c-67-164-121-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:15.12 | aestil | so, i need like 9 more badges. |
| 05:15.16 | aestil | or 11 or something. |
| 05:15.24 | aestil | to get orb of soul caller |
| 05:15.27 | aestil | or whatever its called. |
| 05:15.54 | aestil | and then, my only upgrade that wont be a /roll against someone else, would be kara trash neck, which i probably won't ever get, since i never run kara. |
| 05:15.56 | NightHawkTheSan1 | soul caller? I hardly know her! |
| 05:16.23 | nymbia | ~smite NightHawkTheSan1 |
| 05:16.24 | purl | ACTION wields the mighty blade of Argothax and cleaves NightHawkTheSan1 from crown to sole. |
| 05:16.39 | NightHawkTheSan1 | oh, you laghed. |
| 05:16.41 | NightHawkTheSan1 | laughed* |
| 05:16.57 | *** join/#wowace ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 05:16.57 | *** mode/#wowace [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 05:20.10 | *** join/#wowace RaydenUni (n=bozartmp@cpe-74-74-225-9.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 05:24.08 | aestil | ckknight, whats up with this? http://bayimg.com/oaHndAABn |
| 05:24.09 | Nefarion | does DaHUD have any rounded textures? |
| 05:24.43 | aestil | i'm curious about DaHud, can you make it funciton as party frames as well? |
| 05:24.55 | Nefarion | umm.. |
| 05:25.01 | Nefarion | try checking the forums page or wiki |
| 05:25.14 | NightHawkTheSan1 | "We'll just have to search room by room. I mean, how big could this place possibly be?" |
| 05:26.57 | Lukian | Droolio, here? |
| 05:29.24 | aestil | lets thrae bot duel |
| 05:29.32 | aestil | mid 30's characters? |
| 05:29.38 | aestil | !c us uldum rutrow |
| 05:29.39 | ThraeBot | aestil: Rutrow, Level 29 Dwarf Hunter (0/12/8). 1858 HP; 1155 Mana; 65 mana regen; 383 AP; 47.000 Melee DPS; 14.77% melee crit; 384 RAP; 69.90 Ranged DPS; 20.21% ranged crit; 17.50% dodge; 10 frost resist (+10);[[ TBR: 523 ][ Link: http://tinyurl.com/ytjqs2 ][ Talents: http://tinyurl.com/36yc2h ][ Updated: Thu Nov 1 13:56:59 2007 EST ]] |
| 05:29.51 | Lukian | !c us Jubei'Thos merlock |
| 05:29.56 | ThraeBot | Lukian: Merlock, Level 32 Gnome Warlock (0/23/0). 1337 HP; 2668 Mana; 81 mana regen; 23 +spell dmg/heal; 5.32% dodge; 10 arcane resist (+10); +3 all resists (+10 arcane);[[ TBR: 126 ][ Link: http://tinyurl.com/2zyku2 ][ Talents: http://tinyurl.com/2jcd7k ][ Updated: Fri Nov 2 21:34:08 2007 EST ]] |
| 05:30.10 | aestil | !vs us uldum rutrow us Jubei'thos merlock |
| 05:30.12 | ThraeBot | aestil: Rutrow vs Merlock! Merlock has +3 lvls on Rutrow (29 vs 32); A L29 hunter and a L32 warlock square off!; 0/12/8 vs 0/23/0; Rutrow wins by 339 TBRs! |
| 05:30.17 | Lukian | ouch |
| 05:30.28 | Nefarion | wtf |
| 05:30.53 | aestil | anyone else? |
| 05:31.02 | Lukian | hahah 1337 HP |
| 05:31.17 | Nefarion | lol |
| 05:31.51 | Nefarion | well i gotta g |
| 05:31.58 | Nefarion | feel like total shit X.X |
| 05:32.15 | aestil | so, i randomly ask this. |
| 05:32.37 | aestil | why do the eepanels around my grid frame, sometimes 'ignore' the script and shrink to 100% of the size of the GridLayoutFrame? |
| 05:32.44 | *** join/#wowace Ra1d3n (i=killspam@85-124-25-133.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 05:33.51 | aestil | the script resizes the 3 panels so that they create the border effect, but every so often, semeingly randomly, they will just drop that, and be the size of the gridlayoutframe, i can run the script again manually [what i normally do] or if its forced to run again because one of the events gets fired that i have the script set to run at triggers the script. |
| 05:36.53 | aestil | yeah, no one has an answer to that question. |
| 05:37.09 | *** join/#wowace Guillotine (n=Guilloti@smtp.motek-services.com) |
| 05:37.57 | *** join/#wowace emagdnim (n=mindgame@217.54.100.97.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 05:42.00 | NightHawkTheSan1 | "Wow, when I said I was almost finished I guess I wasn't kidding." |
| 05:42.12 | aestil | huh? |
| 05:42.23 | NightHawkTheSan1 | sg:a |
| 05:42.38 | aestil | huh? |
| 05:43.15 | Lukian | stargate atlantis |
| 05:43.24 | Lukian | sg has some fantastic quotes (in context) |
| 05:43.47 | NightHawkTheSan1 | indeed |
| 05:45.25 | aestil | You can't ask a chinese dude not to turn back into a tiger at midnight. |
| 05:46.44 | NightHawkTheSan1 | that was a good episode. |
| 05:46.56 | aestil | they are all good episodes. |
| 05:47.31 | aestil | i think alec baldwin will win an emmey for his 'good times' tirade 2 episodes ago. |
| 05:47.38 | *** join/#wowace fleetfoot (n=fleetfoo@c-1ee6e455.014-202-6e6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 05:52.03 | *** join/#wowace Unrealii (i=NEXT96@121.129.140.28) |
| 05:56.56 | *** join/#wowace ckknight_ (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 05:56.56 | *** mode/#wowace [+o ckknight_] by ChanServ |
| 06:00.30 | *** join/#wowace Kaelten (n=kaelten@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/WoWIFA/CurseStaff/kaelten) |
| 06:00.30 | *** mode/#wowace [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 06:03.14 | aestil | http://clockwork-epoch.com/gallery/wow_ui_02.jpg |
| 06:04.31 | Ellipsis | oh my |
| 06:04.51 | aestil | i'm gonna go with that now Ellipsis, mine old one is really played out. |
| 06:05.02 | aestil | what do you think? |
| 06:05.30 | Ellipsis | "hello, I'd like some dead space on my screen please. all across the top where it can be sure and block out anything that's more than 10 yards away from me. and make sure the textures are good and ugly, too!" |
| 06:06.00 | aestil | hmm, i think its good. really useful space, in case i'm ever in a group. |
| 06:06.09 | aestil | i can put their pictures up there and stuff. |
| 06:06.33 | Ellipsis | and their buffs, debuffs, pets, pets' buffs and debuffs, mini paperdolls of their gear... |
| 06:07.17 | aestil | wow, that sounds awesome. can you make that for me? |
| 06:07.21 | Ellipsis | and the target of their pet's target, too |
| 06:07.22 | Ellipsis | just in case |
| 06:07.35 | aestil | what mod should i sue for that? |
| 06:07.50 | Ellipsis | you should sue anyone involved in the creation of such a thing |
| 06:08.06 | aestil | i'm pretty much distraught. |
| 06:08.12 | aestil | i don't have a chat mod that i like. |
| 06:08.17 | aestil | and i don't have a necklace that i like. |
| 06:08.22 | aestil | and i don't have another lock that i need. |
| 06:08.46 | aestil | and my girl, is a sleep, and out of it from a margie and an axiety pill. |
| 06:08.50 | aestil | everything is fail. |
| 06:09.05 | aestil | and no one knows why my eepanels2 for grid sometimes break |
| 06:09.07 | aestil | QQ |
| 06:09.33 | Brunera | sonds like you need to go cut some wrists |
| 06:10.47 | *** join/#wowace Azure (i=Azurewra@i59F55E8A.versanet.de) |
| 06:11.01 | Ellipsis | aestil, why do I get the distinct feeling you're QQing at me more than anyone else here? |
| 06:11.19 | aestil | problems 1 2 and 3 are your fault. |
| 06:11.26 | Ellipsis | I made your necklace not drop? |
| 06:11.34 | aestil | mebe |
| 06:11.38 | Ellipsis | =[ |
| 06:11.53 | Ellipsis | I only wish I had that kind of control over drops on *my* server |
| 06:12.00 | *** join/#wowace Stanzilla (n=Stanzill@p549949F0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:12.12 | Brunera | how fun would that had been |
| 06:12.16 | Ellipsis | I could make the shaman loot go away leaving nothing but sweet caster epix for me and leet plate for my tanks |
| 06:12.32 | aestil | it seems that blizzards screenshot sucks. |
| 06:12.36 | aestil | i have it taking tga files. |
| 06:12.42 | aestil | but iti doesn't look quite right. |
| 06:13.01 | Ellipsis | did you change screenshot quality as well? |
| 06:13.28 | aestil | its tga |
| 06:13.32 | aestil | tga = lossless. |
| 06:13.42 | Ellipsis | you still have to change the quality cvar |
| 06:13.43 | Ellipsis | trust me |
| 06:13.51 | aestil | script please? |
| 06:14.18 | Ellipsis | uh |
| 06:14.37 | Ellipsis | I *think* the CVar is screenshotQuality |
| 06:14.55 | Ellipsis | just change it in your config.wtf like a normal person |
| 06:15.16 | aestil | *glower* |
| 06:15.20 | Ellipsis | <3 |
| 06:15.27 | Ellipsis | I'm just causing all kinds of problems for you today, huh |
| 06:15.37 | aestil | where in WTF? |
| 06:15.57 | Ellipsis | thar is file called config.wtf |
| 06:16.58 | aestil | that cvar isn't in my config.wtf |
| 06:17.00 | aestil | only one thing |
| 06:17.05 | aestil | screenshotFormat "tga" |
| 06:17.31 | Ellipsis | well |
| 06:17.36 | Ellipsis | after it put screenshotQuality "10" |
| 06:18.10 | *** part/#wowace emagdnim (n=mindgame@217.54.100.97.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 06:20.34 | *** join/#wowace Kerafyrm (i=tigr@ip70-181-127-246.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 06:20.59 | Kerafyrm | new gold expl0it on ptr |
| 06:21.21 | Ellipsis | oh noes, not teh 'sploitz |
| 06:21.35 | Kerafyrm | tis funneh |
| 06:22.15 | Kerafyrm | letz' hope dey fix it before putt'n patch live.. but this IS blizzard so |
| 06:22.19 | Kerafyrm | you nevar know |
| 06:25.40 | *** join/#wowace Jagobah (n=jago7777@adsl-217-158-200.owb.bellsouth.net) |
| 06:25.41 | *** join/#wowace evl (n=fuckoff@unaffiliated/evl) |
| 06:27.03 | Brunera | what is the exploit doing? |
| 06:28.31 | aestil | dell needs to send me a new computer. |
| 06:29.31 | Brunera | why? |
| 06:29.38 | Ellipsis | aestil: glhf |
| 06:30.14 | aestil | cause it doesn't work right. |
| 06:30.25 | aestil | they just replaced my 19x12 pannel |
| 06:30.44 | aestil | it overheats and goes from 50 fps to 8 |
| 06:32.08 | Brunera | clean it and install more fans |
| 06:32.37 | Ellipsis | aestil: how long has it been since you cleaned out the heatsinks? |
| 06:32.50 | aestil | its a laptop |
| 06:32.51 | Ellipsis | the larger inspiron cases trap huge amounts of dusts |
| 06:33.00 | Ellipsis | dusts....dusts...wtf am I smoking |
| 06:33.02 | aestil | XPS M1700 |
| 06:33.05 | *** join/#wowace Shirik|Ghost (n=skullsho@239.121.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 06:33.14 | Ellipsis | XPS is an inspiron with a paint job |
| 06:33.15 | Brunera | clean it |
| 06:33.16 | aestil | and very recently, since we took the computer aport. |
| 06:33.23 | aestil | to replace the fans a few months ago. |
| 06:33.34 | aestil | since this problem started a long time ago. |
| 06:33.43 | aestil | and they replaced the fans and heatsyncs at that point. |
| 06:33.52 | Ellipsis | hm |
| 06:33.58 | Ellipsis | did they replace the entire graphics card? |
| 06:34.20 | Brunera | do the fans have clear airflow? |
| 06:34.22 | *** mode/#wowace [+v Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 06:34.26 | Ellipsis | or just put a new heatsink/heatpipe on your old graphics mount |
| 06:34.35 | aestil | no. heatsync/pipe |
| 06:34.55 | aestil | the fans never spin up high though |
| 06:34.56 | aestil | ever |
| 06:35.02 | Brunera | check your bios then |
| 06:35.06 | Ellipsis | no |
| 06:35.07 | aestil | i test them and they are capable of doing so. |
| 06:35.12 | Ellipsis | get a fan control program |
| 06:35.15 | Ellipsis | use that rather than the default |
| 06:35.19 | Ellipsis | much better logic |
| 06:35.19 | aestil | link. |
| 06:35.27 | Brunera | google speedfan |
| 06:35.32 | aestil | i'd rather they just replace it. |
| 06:35.32 | Ellipsis | no |
| 06:35.36 | Ellipsis | speedfan will kill dell laptops |
| 06:35.39 | aestil | the bottom plastic is all ashy. |
| 06:35.45 | aestil | from overheating. |
| 06:35.52 | Ellipsis | http://www.diefer.de/i8kfan/index.html |
| 06:35.53 | aestil | its turned the black plastic grey. |
| 06:35.57 | Ellipsis | that's what I use for my inspiron |
| 06:36.08 | Brunera | the one reason im never going to have a laptop |
| 06:36.18 | Ellipsis | YMMV with an XPS though |
| 06:36.27 | aestil | i'll try it. |
| 06:36.34 | sedatedChipmunk | yeah, desktop+boxfan ftw |
| 06:36.36 | aestil | i shouldn't have this issue. |
| 06:37.01 | aestil | i think the core2duo's run cooler, and the newer xps's don't have as much overheating problems. |
| 06:38.44 | Brunera | what graphics card is the best to buy now? |
| 06:39.26 | Brunera | not top notch, but something middleclass that does the job |
| 06:39.34 | aestil | Ellipsis: you use automatic temp control? |
| 06:39.41 | aestil | and policy: games? |
| 06:42.16 | aestil | is there a sensor for GPU temp on my computer do you think? |
| 06:43.45 | Brunera | could be |
| 06:43.50 | Brunera | and most likely is |
| 06:45.53 | aestil | my bios thinks my cpu is 800mhz, and this program is reporting it at 615 mhz. |
| 06:47.09 | aestil | and sys properties says its a 2.13ghz cpu. |
| 06:47.13 | Brunera | you are probably running it at low power consumption |
| 06:47.15 | aestil | i'm pretty sure something isn't right here. |
| 06:48.25 | Brunera | or a failsafe setting has triggered since your laptop is overheated :P |
| 06:54.32 | *** join/#wowace aestil (n=holycall@cpe-72-129-96-142.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 06:54.42 | aestil | it appears that is what happens. |
| 06:54.44 | aestil | it goes into 'failsafe' mode. |
| 06:54.51 | aestil | or soemthing like it. |
| 06:54.56 | aestil | rebooted. |
| 06:55.00 | aestil | running at 2128 Mhz now. |
| 06:55.07 | aestil | CPU temp at 74 C |
| 06:55.12 | aestil | that seems very hot. |
| 06:55.24 | aestil | 76 |
| 06:55.42 | Brunera | have you got your fans to run at full speed now then? |
| 06:55.58 | nymbia | are you on fire? |
| 06:56.05 | aestil | they weren't going as high as they could. |
| 06:56.23 | Brunera | and do you fans have free airflow? |
| 06:56.27 | aestil | yes. |
| 06:56.34 | Brunera | like your not having your laptop in your bed covered |
| 06:56.39 | Brunera | :P |
| 06:56.47 | aestil | i have my laptop, on a raised tray, that is perforated. |
| 06:56.53 | aestil | there is no airflow obstruction |
| 06:57.33 | nymbia | is the whole thing really hot or is it just getting really high temp readings |
| 06:57.49 | aestil | whole thing is really hot |
| 06:57.53 | Brunera | i dont know what your bios says, but see if there is any fanspeed settings there, and remove anything that will make them run slower |
| 06:57.56 | aestil | GPU is 73, cpu is 74 |
| 06:58.06 | aestil | wow is running in the back ground |
| 06:58.13 | aestil | thats what causes the problems though. |
| 06:58.16 | nymbia | ya overclock it or something? it shouldnt be running THAT hot... |
| 06:58.17 | aestil | so its a fair test. |
| 06:58.20 | aestil | no. |
| 06:58.24 | aestil | its just standard. |
| 06:58.43 | aestil | GPU at 75 now. |
| 06:58.44 | nymbia | well, get em to fix it |
| 06:58.47 | aestil | hell yes. |
| 06:58.52 | aestil | get em to replace it. |
| 06:59.06 | aestil | i'm only playing wow. |
| 06:59.25 | aestil | imagine how bad this would be if it was a game that really stressed the graphics subsystem, or had alot of physics stuff going on. |
| 06:59.48 | nymbia | well, if stuff's pegged it's pegged, whats the CPU consumption at |
| 06:59.54 | aestil | 100% |
| 07:00.12 | aestil | GPU at 78. |
| 07:00.27 | aestil | i have the laptop at an angle, and being blown on by a floor fan. |
| 07:01.03 | nymbia | that doesnt make sense |
| 07:01.12 | nymbia | it's a laptop not a space heater... |
| 07:01.13 | aestil | i believe it. |
| 07:01.18 | aestil | its absurdly hot. |
| 07:01.33 | aestil | touching the bottom actually hurts. |
| 07:01.35 | nymbia | yeah i mean |
| 07:01.37 | aestil | the plastic is all discolored. |
| 07:01.40 | nymbia | that shouldnt happen |
| 07:02.02 | Lukian | yeah you can sue for burning your pee-pee on that! :D |
| 07:02.05 | nymbia | i can't imagine it generating that much heat without some sort of huge wattage draw |
| 07:02.16 | aestil | my thing is, at this point, its been going on for so many months, that the integrity of the whole computer must be comprimised. |
| 07:02.26 | aestil | its just gonna stop working at some point. |
| 07:02.31 | aestil | GPU 80 |
| 07:02.58 | dreamss | have u opened the latop? |
| 07:03.05 | aestil | yeah. |
| 07:03.10 | aestil | i didn't. |
| 07:03.12 | aestil | tech guy did. |
| 07:03.23 | aestil | some dead pixels on the panel, they replaced the panel. |
| 07:03.26 | aestil | overnighted a new one. |
| 07:03.34 | aestil | 19x12 panel can't be cheap. |
| 07:04.03 | aestil | 81 GPU. i wonder, this is just me with the game idling in the BG. |
| 07:04.09 | aestil | has to get hotter while playing. |
| 07:04.30 | CIA-7 | 03ananhaid * r53784 10BigWigs/Hyjal/HyjalSummit.lua: |
| 07:04.30 | CIA-7 | BigWigs: |
| 07:04.30 | CIA-7 | - zhCN update,yell not done. |
| 07:04.31 | Kerafyrm | with the game in focus or tabbed out? |
| 07:04.39 | nymbia | does it actually hit the shutdown threshold? |
| 07:05.02 | aestil | tabbed out. |
| 07:05.06 | aestil | never has shutdown. |
| 07:05.13 | aestil | wireless chipset locks up. |
| 07:05.17 | aestil | i go LD alot. |
| 07:05.23 | aestil | i go from 50fps to 8 alot. |
| 07:05.45 | Kerafyrm | on my desktop.. gpu/cpu temps drop to normal idle average when tabbed out... tab back in and they jump to their "working range" |
| 07:05.48 | nymbia | sounds like they expected it to be overheating? |
| 07:05.55 | nymbia | is it one o them gaming laptops? |
| 07:06.06 | aestil | it is a gaming laptop. |
| 07:06.22 | aestil | but them expecting it to overheat, doesn't mean that i can put up with it. |
| 07:06.28 | Kerafyrm | lemme see if i can find a temp monitor for my thinkpad |
| 07:06.56 | nymbia | check what the shutdown thresholds are in the bios if it lets you, they can't be out of reach with how fast you're climbing |
| 07:07.27 | aestil | i put the laptop down on a hard surface |
| 07:07.32 | aestil | it jumped to 80 |
| 07:07.40 | aestil | now that the floor fan not blowing on it directly. |
| 07:11.44 | *** join/#wowace TheHermit` (n=TheHermi@pool-70-17-137-12.wma.east.verizon.net) |
| 07:11.57 | Kerafyrm | gpu isn't pulling up with hmonitor, but cpu on my z60t is 56tabbed out, 68in-game |
| 07:15.16 | aestil | using that, i show 92 c MB 86 c CPU mem 58c, GPU 103C HDD 45C |
| 07:16.17 | aestil | 90 - 100 C is pretty hot, right? |
| 07:17.20 | aestil | 200 degree's F, or there abouts. |
| 07:21.07 | theoddone33 | I really really wish they'd fix the pvp tab |
| 07:21.18 | theoddone33 | I now regard it as nearly 100% unreliable |
| 07:27.44 | *** join/#wowace Ncl8 (n=Ncl8@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-186.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 07:28.22 | CIA-7 | 03rabbit * r53785 10BigWigs/ (16 files in 6 dirs): BigWigs: Remove all the BigWigs_Personal events, the Flash module will have to find some other way to function or wait until we get a chance to discuss it properly. |
| 07:31.04 | Kerafyrm | aestil: yeah.. 200f is WAY too hot |
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| 07:37.13 | CIA-7 | 03sayclub * r53786 10AutoBar/Locale-koKR.lua: |
| 07:37.13 | CIA-7 | AutoBar : |
| 07:37.13 | CIA-7 | - Update koKR localization |
| 07:38.29 | Guillotine | I seem to remember an Ace addon that would let you monitor all combat events fired during a certain time and later browse them to help create an addon. Anybody happen to know what addon that was? |
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| 07:41.42 | vhaarr | Guillotine: Transcriptor? |
| 07:41.49 | Guillotine | that sounds right :) ty! |
| 07:41.56 | vhaarr | it doesn't log ALL combat events |
| 07:42.10 | vhaarr | just the ones potentially interesting to bossmods |
| 07:46.38 | Orionshock | question, is there any major advantige to using a table to store functions vs using a <namespace>_<func_Name>() ? |
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| 07:48.42 | vhaarr | the advantage is that you don't pollute the global scope with more than a table as opposed to every function |
| 07:49.26 | Orionshock | any difference in performance? |
| 07:54.20 | Xinhuan | Orionshock: usually neligible. |
| 07:54.35 | Xinhuan | both involves a table lookup |
| 07:54.38 | Xinhuan | to find the function |
| 07:59.06 | Orionshock | well |
| 07:59.09 | Orionshock | 2.3 is soon |
| 07:59.57 | nymbia | Xinhuan: a sub-table will be 2 table lookups, so it'd be the slower |
| 08:00.08 | nymbia | but for sanity's sake it's still worth using |
| 08:00.08 | Xinhuan | not if you localize the subtable nymbia |
| 08:00.32 | Xinhuan | localizing the subtable and localizing _G |
| 08:00.42 | Xinhuan | achieves the exact same performance |
| 08:00.58 | Xinhuan | the only difference is global pollution - which isn't really a problem |
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| 08:01.50 | nymbia | Xinhuan: wait i'm confused |
| 08:02.07 | nymbia | Xinhuan: why would you be using _G in this case |
| 08:02.39 | Orionshock | scope not defined _G implied |
| 08:02.39 | Xinhuan | myfunc() is slightly slower than _G["myfunc"]() |
| 08:02.52 | Xinhuan | where _G is localized at the top |
| 08:02.57 | Xinhuan | local _G = _G |
| 08:03.09 | nymbia | why not just localize myfunc |
| 08:03.19 | Xinhuan | you could |
| 08:03.25 | Xinhuan | but that wasn't the original question |
| 08:03.29 | nymbia | sure it was |
| 08:03.30 | Xinhuan | [11/3 15:46:37] <Orionshock> question, is there any major advantige to using a table to store functions vs using a <namespace>_<func_Name>() ? |
| 08:03.38 | Xinhuan | table to store functions vs a global name |
| 08:03.55 | Xinhuan | a global name merely stores it in a _G[] table |
| 08:03.58 | Xinhuan | so its really thh same thing |
| 08:04.01 | Xinhuan | the* |
| 08:04.14 | nymbia | assuming similar scoping, which is faster between a.b() and a_b() |
| 08:04.49 | Xinhuan | a_b() would be faster by 1 lookup if "a" is on the same scope as "a_b" |
| 08:05.01 | nymbia | yeah |
| 08:05.14 | nymbia | but i'd argue that it's not worth the speedup in most cases |
| 08:05.25 | Orionshock | damn... 2.3 patch coming down at 300KB/s |
| 08:05.46 | Xinhuan | ya, its negligible |
| 08:05.49 | Xinhuan | i wouldn't bother |
| 08:05.49 | nymbia | organizational sanity takes precedence to saving one lookup |
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| 08:06.17 | Orionshock | if a.b() access is similar if not same to a_b() access, assuming same scope then it comes down to a personal preference. |
| 08:06.33 | Orionshock | thats what i was trying to determine |
| 08:06.43 | nymbia | which is why i only use a_b in cases where i'm localizing a global func like table_concat |
| 08:07.21 | Orionshock | ya basic lua functions usualy is what that happens to. |
| 08:07.38 | nymbia | well, the tradeoff is speed vs the convenience of having your funcs in a table |
| 08:07.54 | Xinhuan | there's a 200 locals limit in a fileblock scope |
| 08:08.01 | Xinhuan | so if your addon is big enough |
| 08:08.09 | Xinhuan | you'll need to move all your local functions into a local table |
| 08:08.42 | nymbia | that would be the most horrible file ever |
| 08:08.54 | nymbia | ~lart Fisker- |
| 08:08.54 | purl | pushes the wall down onto Fisker- whilst whistling innocently |
| 08:09.18 | Xinhuan | well, you easily use up about 30 locals just localizing common functions |
| 08:09.30 | nymbia | true |
| 08:09.31 | Xinhuan | like tinsert delete pairs getiteminfo etc |
| 08:09.54 | Xinhuan | then add another few locals for maybe 20 frames |
| 08:10.08 | Xinhuan | and another 20 locals for filescope storage that you don't want to put under myaddon.var |
| 08:10.10 | Orionshock | the question spawns from me looking at some "non-ace" addons like WIM and a very simpe buff checker one for a TK boss.. and just saw different methods from what i've come to see in mods hosted on wowaceSVN |
| 08:10.19 | Xinhuan | that's like 100+ already |
| 08:11.19 | Xinhuan | then for a lot of frames, you'll probably also have functions for those that are local too |
| 08:11.34 | Orionshock | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:11.36 | nymbia | Orionshock: probably due mostly to global pollution ideals |
| 08:12.18 | Xinhuan | global pollution is overrated, a table lookup is n*lg(n) |
| 08:12.30 | Xinhuan | so if you already have 6000 globals in _G |
| 08:12.40 | Xinhuan | the lookup speed won't drop until you have 12k globals |
| 08:13.01 | Xinhuan | sorry, just lg(n) lol |
| 08:13.20 | Orionshock | and at 12k globals how slow is the lookup? |
| 08:13.42 | Xinhuan | never timed it |
| 08:13.43 | nymbia | but why would you need to put every function you've got in global? i mean, you'll be making a local reference in most cases anyway |
| 08:13.59 | Orionshock | meh.. |
| 08:14.12 | Xinhuan | ya but there are people who insist that you should NEVER pollute globals other than your single addon object |
| 08:14.17 | Xinhuan | and that's a pretty stupid belief |
| 08:14.35 | vhaarr | no it isn't |
| 08:15.06 | Orionshock | never say never, it has a tendency to come back and fk you over later :D |
| 08:15.06 | vhaarr | significantly reduces the risk that another mod overwrites your stuff |
| 08:15.17 | Xinhuan | that is a "security" issue |
| 08:15.24 | Xinhuan | not a coding issue |
| 08:15.30 | vhaarr | and? |
| 08:15.46 | Xinhuan | my main point was about code efficiency/speed |
| 08:16.04 | Xinhuan | polluting globals is mostly irrelevant |
| 08:16.09 | vhaarr | well then it is irrelevant, but it's still not stupid |
| 08:16.17 | nymbia | what you expose in your API, and variable name conflict, are also valid concerns |
| 08:16.38 | Xinhuan | well notice i said the word "NEVER" in caps? |
| 08:16.56 | vhaarr | if you don't have to, then why do it? |
| 08:17.02 | vhaarr | obviously if you have an API to expose, you do that |
| 08:17.10 | vhaarr | but if not, there's no reason to make anything global |
| 08:17.21 | krka | you could run out of locals |
| 08:17.44 | nymbia | i'd like to see the addon that ran outta locals |
| 08:17.50 | Orionshock | i guess it's better said to not needlessly pollute the global space when you don't need/have to |
| 08:18.09 | krka | nymbia: you can only have about 20 upvalues i think |
| 08:18.12 | krka | i have run into that limit |
| 08:18.30 | krka | btw table lookup is constant time in lua |
| 08:18.30 | Xinhuan | the upvalue limit is 200 isn't it? same with locals |
| 08:18.45 | krka | if lookup was n*lg(n) it would be EXTREMELY crappy |
| 08:19.11 | krka | binary trees have lg(n) |
| 08:19.23 | Xinhuan | an upvalue is a reference to a variable that is in a higher scope |
| 08:19.25 | krka | i cant even imagine what a n*lg(n) lookup would be doin |
| 08:19.37 | *** join/#wowace ckknight (n=ckknight@rrcs-74-62-251-185.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 08:19.37 | *** mode/#wowace [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
| 08:19.38 | Xinhuan | i meant to say lg(n) |
| 08:19.52 | nymbia | Orionshock: ie |
| 08:19.54 | nymbia | local a = 1 |
| 08:20.00 | nymbia | function b() |
| 08:20.04 | krka | an upvalue is a variable that is outside a function |
| 08:20.05 | nymbia | a = a + 1 |
| 08:20.05 | nymbia | end |
| 08:21.00 | Orionshock | ic |
| 08:21.08 | nymbia | it's not local to the function itself |
| 08:21.18 | nymbia | but lexical scoping is hot like that |
| 08:21.33 | Orionshock | "Xinhuan>an upvalue is a reference to a variable that is in a higher scope" << made perfect sense... thx all :P |
| 08:22.45 | Orionshock | now the real question... go to kara tonight or not, b/c last night the raid leader was a dick for the first time.... |
| 08:23.23 | krka | not entirely correct though. it has to be outside the function |
| 08:26.03 | CIA-7 | 03ominous * r53787 10Tattle/ (38 files in 38 dirs): Tattle: daily run of the dataminer |
| 08:27.46 | krka | ah sorry, the upvalue limit is 60 |
| 08:27.51 | krka | the local limit is 200 |
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| 09:15.29 | Wobin | Lukian: whut? |
| 09:16.03 | Lukian | 749: attempt to perform arithmetic on local 'xpEx' (a nil value) |
| 09:18.13 | Wobin | Lukian: what do you get with /dump GetXPExhaustion() ? |
| 09:18.54 | Lukian | an error |
| 09:19.04 | Wobin | whut? =\ |
| 09:19.22 | Wobin | That's an api call |
| 09:19.25 | Wobin | why is it erroring? |
| 09:19.29 | Wobin | what's the error you get? |
| 09:19.29 | Lukian | an error from the api :D |
| 09:19.45 | *** join/#wowace darchon (n=darchon@222.112.27.155) |
| 09:19.45 | Lukian | oh |
| 09:19.48 | Lukian | a rock error |
| 09:20.00 | Orionshock | try copying and pasting Lukian |
| 09:20.13 | Wobin | plz |
| 09:20.42 | Lukian | [String "Rock("LibRockConsole-1.0"): PrintLiteral(Get..."]:1: attempt to call global 'GetXpExhaustion' (a nil value) |
| 09:20.55 | Orionshock | noob |
| 09:20.58 | Orionshock | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:21.02 | Orionshock | caps matter |
| 09:21.18 | Lukian | oh, I get nil |
| 09:21.50 | Orionshock | >.> |
| 09:22.56 | CIA-7 | 03wobin * r53788 10FuBar_FuXPFu/FuBar_FuXPFu.lua: FuBar_FuXPFu: made a fallback in case GetXPExhaustion returns nil for some reason... |
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| 09:35.08 | CIA-7 | 037destiny * r53789 10BigWigs/Hyjal/HyjalSummit.lua: BigWigs: Hyjal/HyjalSummit: koKR update |
| 09:35.12 | Gandharva | ckknight: I'm getting this error on 2.3 PTR right after login: http://ace.pastey.net/76484 |
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| 09:48.37 | Orionshock | hey ckknight is there a work arround / patch for stopping the config window from showing when in combat & miss clicking? |
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| 09:49.57 | cncfanatics | hello ppl |
| 09:53.09 | Wogroipl | still no plans for a GUI for Flexbar2? |
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| 09:59.38 | Xeriana | Hey, guys! Anyone there, who uses sacredbuff an could help me? |
| 10:03.21 | Ozguli | which is better, itemrack or closetgnome? |
| 10:03.46 | Xeriana | I'd prefer itemrack |
| 10:04.23 | Xeriana | all others are doing bugs with the titan panal |
| 10:04.32 | Xeriana | *panel |
| 10:04.44 | Ozguli | I don't use titan anymore |
| 10:04.52 | CIA-7 | 03anxarces * r53790 10ProfessionsBook/ (5 files): |
| 10:04.52 | CIA-7 | ProfessionsBook: |
| 10:04.52 | CIA-7 | -Database validation will check for tradeskill "UNKNOWN". |
| 10:04.52 | CIA-7 | -Added compatibility for AuctionFilterPlus |
| 10:04.52 | CIA-7 | -Minor bug fixes. |
| 10:04.53 | Ozguli | because it had trouble with all addons |
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| 10:05.52 | Xeriana | than i can't tell you... didn't test te other one for longer time :( |
| 10:06.34 | Ozguli | FuBar does the job and configures better imo |
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| 10:08.10 | Xeriana | don't like FuBar. don't know exactly why. I simply don't like it. |
| 10:08.23 | Artara | Hey all |
| 10:08.30 | Xeriana | Morning! |
| 10:09.16 | Xeriana | ehm... my question again... is there anyone, using sacredbuff? |
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| 10:12.50 | Xeriana | ok, don't think so... anyone, who could give me a hint what priest-addon to use instead? my problem is, that ich can't configure sacredbuff... |
| 10:13.08 | Ozguli | mm, what kind of utility you need? |
| 10:14.12 | Xeriana | do you know totemus for the shaman? something like that... |
| 10:15.11 | Xeriana | to get the buffs and the potions and so on out of my bars |
| 10:15.57 | Xeriana | brb |
| 10:21.03 | Xeriana | so... back |
| 10:21.14 | Xeriana | any idea? |
| 10:24.32 | Xeriana | hmm, think i'll search the www again. |
| 10:24.35 | Orionshock | LOLZ |
| 10:24.45 | Orionshock | so doing shade and he AoE polys us as he dies.... |
| 10:25.00 | cncfanatics | cool |
| 10:25.14 | Xeriana | cu |
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| 10:31.00 | Lukian | oh yeah, Wobin ? |
| 10:31.13 | Wobin | whut? |
| 10:31.36 | Lukian | 63352/160400 ( 39%) 97048 to go ( 0% rested) <- don't you like trimming spaces? :D |
| 10:31.51 | Wobin | Meh, it's so much effort to change those |
| 10:32.05 | Wobin | I have to change all the translations as well =P |
| 10:32.15 | Lukian | ah right |
| 10:32.21 | Wobin | I'll do it eventually |
| 10:32.27 | Lukian | yeah that's cool |
| 10:32.28 | Wobin | when I get around to it =P |
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| 11:18.54 | Orionshock | 1st attempt at Prince Malchezaar, 68% |
| 11:19.51 | nevcairiel | you know, you're like half a year behind to be impressive with that |
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| 11:22.32 | Orionshock | meh... |
| 11:22.36 | Orionshock | raiding is casual for me |
| 11:23.46 | Orionshock | that and who ever responds negatively to that i know who to ignore. |
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| 11:34.13 | Diao | holy crap |
| 11:34.14 | Diao | hemo is insane |
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| 11:42.05 | Speeddymon | can someone explain the advantages of using an embeds.xml over just referencing your embeds and the actual addon's files within the TOC? |
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| 11:47.33 | Gagorian | Speeddymon: In case of missing files it wont create an error log and is faster (in case of using disembedded libs), and WAU can also remove that information completely when using standalone libs |
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| 11:47.41 | Nargiddley | the files script knows about embeds.xml and removed the entries for the no-ext zip |
| 11:47.54 | Nargiddley | it does create an error log if the files exist in it |
| 11:48.54 | Speeddymon | ok, but there is no advantage in game? |
| 11:49.12 | Gagorian | only loading times |
| 11:49.18 | Speeddymon | because i see addons that have nothing to do with wowace that use embeds.xml.. |
| 11:49.31 | Nargiddley | its a way to organize things |
| 11:50.16 | Speeddymon | ah, i see. So they keep their embedded libs in there and their addon's files in the TOC |
| 11:50.20 | Wobin | !help |
| 11:50.20 | ThraeBot | Triggers: !fc; !c; !vs; !vsd; !g; !ge; !te; !co; !ar; !l; !tc; !ap; !api; !tl; !t; !i; !p;. To get more information about a particular command, do !help <command>. Now /msg ThraeBot with your command and stop spamming the damn channel. |
| 11:50.23 | Speeddymon | to make the TOC more readable |
| 11:50.24 | Nargiddley | and people like doing "the right thing" without understanding it |
| 11:50.39 | Speeddymon | gotchya |
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| 11:56.25 | DrOn` | hello |
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| 12:05.44 | backbone87 | ckknight_: ping? |
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| 12:12.40 | sb | morning |
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| 12:49.39 | Lukian | phyber, Droolio ? |
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| 13:03.15 | Ozguli | aww, closetgnome doesn't recognize the items if they've been enchanted |
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| 13:04.00 | silentium | this means you can use the same item with different enchants in multiple sets ;) |
| 13:05.26 | Ozguli | but the item is same |
| 13:05.28 | phyber | Lukian: hi |
| 13:05.45 | Lukian | hello there :0 |
| 13:06.01 | Lukian | i think it would be great if you could view your TopScoreFu data while on other characters |
| 13:06.09 | Lukian | or even share it with others using the addon |
| 13:06.36 | silentium | the (full) item ID isnt the same any more once it has been enchanted |
| 13:06.51 | Lukian | Ozguli, just re-equip it |
| 13:07.00 | Lukian | it colours the slots yellow to let you know |
| 13:07.34 | phyber | I'm not really playing wow a lot at the moment, so new features like that are unlikely ;) |
| 13:07.50 | Ozguli | hmm, it doesn't seem to understand that I already added this cloak to the set |
| 13:08.04 | Chompers | add it again Ozguli |
| 13:08.13 | phyber | I've discovered games that are actually fun and don't require 5 hours of dying due to some healer having lag, etc. |
| 13:08.24 | Chompers | make a new set but call it the same as the old one |
| 13:09.01 | Ozguli | better |
| 13:10.02 | Lukian | phyber, orange box or other? :D |
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| 13:10.43 | phyber | Orange Box is somewhere in there, yeah. :) |
| 13:10.58 | phyber | playing Eternal Sonata on 360 at the moment. |
| 13:11.11 | Orionshock | anyone know offhand what the origional druid maces where pre-TBC where called? |
| 13:11.24 | Lukian | unending life |
| 13:11.38 | Lukian | @ Orionshock |
| 13:11.48 | Orionshock | i swear there was one out of nax |
| 13:12.35 | Lukian | oh yeah |
| 13:12.50 | Orionshock | The End of Dreams |
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| 13:25.27 | *** mode/#wowace [+v Tekkub] by ChanServ |
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| 13:34.10 | CIA-7 | 03kunda * r53791 10Babble-2.2/Babble-Tradeskill-2.2/Babble-Tradeskill-2.2.lua: .Babble-Tradeskill-2.2: fix deDE 'Transmute: Primal Fire to Earth' and 'Gift of Arthas' strange |
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| 13:38.17 | Chompers | oh Fisker- |
| 13:38.25 | Chompers | leave my butt alone |
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| 13:49.48 | CIA-7 | 03pettigrow * r53792 10Babble-2.2/Babble-Tradeskill-2.2/Babble-Tradeskill-2.2.lua: Babble-2.2: Tradeskill: frFR Update |
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| 13:52.24 | CIA-7 | 03deccard * r53793 10MiniChat/Core.lua: |
| 13:52.24 | CIA-7 | MiniChat: |
| 13:52.24 | CIA-7 | - settings are saved per profile |
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| 14:11.32 | CIA-7 | 03cwdg * r53794 10nQuestLog/modules/DetailsFrame/locales/zhCN.lua: |
| 14:11.32 | CIA-7 | nQuestLog: |
| 14:11.32 | CIA-7 | -update zhCN.lua |
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| 14:25.43 | cncfanatics | damn, everyone talks a lot today |
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| 14:39.46 | Lothaer | ~chuck norris |
| 14:39.47 | purl | well, chuck norris is and there is no chin under Chuck Norris' Beard. There is only another fist. |
| 14:41.15 | Lothaer | ECHO..echo....echo..echo.......echo |
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| 14:47.43 | xanadu_zh | .. |
| 14:49.13 | xanadu_zh | Anyone here? I cannot see T6 set with WhoDrop Addon. Why? Can someone tell me? |
| 14:50.23 | xanadu_zh | Fine, no active one here.... |
| 14:52.28 | nevcairiel | whats WhoDrop anyway? |
| 14:53.27 | nevcairiel | you should contact the author of said addon, if no one here can help you |
| 14:53.48 | xanadu_zh | oh |
| 14:54.13 | xanadu_zh | maybe i should fine the author first |
| 14:54.15 | vhaarr | I think it's a mendeleev thingy |
| 14:54.37 | xanadu_zh | ~find |
| 14:54.53 | vhaarr | xanadu_zh: try Mendeleev |
| 14:54.57 | vhaarr | xanadu_zh: from wowace svn |
| 14:55.07 | vhaarr | instead of whodrop |
| 14:55.21 | xanadu_zh | oh, thanks! |
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| 15:14.29 | CIA-7 | 03kunda * r53795 10AckisRecipeList/ (ARLLocals-deDE.lua AckisRecipeList.toc): AckisRecipeList: deDE fixes |
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| 15:40.19 | CIA-7 | 03drool * r53797 10Nauticus/ (NautComms.lua NautCore.lua): |
| 15:40.19 | CIA-7 | Nauticus: |
| 15:40.19 | CIA-7 | - attempt to prevent chan num reorder; wait few secs after joining all others before joining ours |
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| 15:45.51 | *** mode/#wowace [+o ckknight] by ChanServ |
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| 16:01.37 | Lukian | lol wut? |
| 16:01.43 | Lukian | An addon has been blocked.. |
| 16:01.45 | Lukian | "Ace2" |
| 16:01.54 | Lukian | when using a BoU tonk controller |
| 16:02.37 | Nefarion | what? |
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| 16:03.39 | Lukian | I couldn't use a BoU tonk controller |
| 16:03.43 | Lukian | because Ace2 blocked it |
| 16:04.08 | Nefarion | what addons are you using? |
| 16:04.08 | RaydenUni | the chest in heroic mechanar will now have badges in it? |
| 16:04.12 | RaydenUni | so mech is now a 6 badge run? |
| 16:04.26 | *** join/#wowace Diao` (i=vschiu@ip68-225-241-221.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 16:04.43 | Lukian | no |
| 16:04.48 | Lukian | the gatewatchers are dropped |
| 16:04.56 | Lukian | so 4 badge? |
| 16:04.59 | RaydenUni | oh |
| 16:04.59 | RaydenUni | lame |
| 16:05.07 | RaydenUni | so run it before 2.3 i guess |
| 16:07.18 | aeon|capullo | who is the bigwigs developer? |
| 16:07.52 | Lukian | tekkub and co |
| 16:08.18 | *** join/#wowace Mech0z (i=Mech0z@d40ae44f.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 16:08.58 | aeon|capullo | i added a kickrotation to the RoS timers |
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| 16:14.15 | Nefarion | http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o226/kharmaa/?action=view¤t=ImBurned.jpg |
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| 16:14.37 | Nefarion | epic |
| 16:15.49 | Killmore2 | fake :P |
| 16:16.02 | Nefarion | duh |
| 16:17.02 | vhaarr | aeon|capullo: we won't add that to the default BW distribution |
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| 16:22.43 | aeon|capullo | and why? |
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| 16:35.30 | Xelopheris | Is there any way to add a unit's target to an Aloft frame? |
| 16:36.10 | Xelopheris | the second I throw a # in to specify target it fails |
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| 16:45.47 | Nefarion | you want to show targets on all the nameplates? |
| 16:46.17 | Moozh | here's a question. is it possible to have nameplates show up on characters further away than default? |
| 16:46.43 | Nefarion | not possible unless Aloft can identify one of the nameplate-units as a target, target-target (x times removed), focus, focus-target (x times removed), party target, pet target, raid target, etc |
| 16:46.49 | Nefarion | no Moozh |
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| 16:49.37 | Xinhuan | hi vince |
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| 16:50.50 | Nefarion | they introduced nameplate range increases in BC beta (or was it alpha?) but removed it. given that nameplates ignore visual obstructions and allow much easier targeting, high range isn't a good thing from Blizz's point-of-view. |
| 16:51.13 | Nefarion | that is, you can see nameplates (and target with them) through walls, trees, doors, etc |
| 16:51.18 | Mudkips | yeah |
| 16:51.23 | Mudkips | that was hax |
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| 16:51.55 | Nefarion | still works. i always gotta laugh when people think they're well-hidden in the WSG mirror room and i'm right above them looking down through the floor. lol |
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| 16:53.34 | Nefarion | anyone see that guy that achieved max hit, >1k dmg, and a little under 30% crit without raiding (past KZ)? |
| 16:53.39 | Nefarion | warlock |
| 16:54.16 | Obelixprime | how many pieces of gear were crafted t6/t5 epics? |
| 16:54.22 | Obelixprime | did he have a bob? |
| 16:54.25 | Nefarion | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2720323590&sid=1 |
| 16:54.55 | Nefarion | i dunno specifics, i just know he doesn't have a single piece of raid armor past kara |
| 16:55.03 | Nefarion | so he said (i didn't look lol( |
| 16:55.44 | Nefarion | he has 25% crit now but is getting the other 5% when 2.3 hits |
| 16:56.16 | Obelixprime | orly |
| 16:56.20 | Obelixprime | he has a bob, so he fails |
| 16:57.32 | Obelixprime | plus, how'd he spend that much gold? |
| 16:57.39 | Obelixprime | crafting tailoring epics isn't that bad |
| 16:58.11 | Obelixprime | i would imagine doing the pvping and arena'ing to pick up the staff and other things would have taken the most time |
| 16:58.27 | Nefarion | spend that much gold? what do you mean? |
| 16:59.00 | Obelixprime | from his post "Granted it took me a lot of time, effort, and gold to get this." |
| 16:59.23 | Nefarion | o |
| 16:59.34 | Nefarion | thought you meant something else |
| 16:59.51 | *** join/#wowace faCe| (n=f@pD955F9B6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:00.05 | Obelixprime | what i meant is that it shouldn't have cost him that much gold to attain his current stats |
| 17:02.45 | hyperChipmunk | i was trying to get the aguf options table |
| 17:02.48 | hyperChipmunk | mis |
| 17:04.05 | CIA-7 | 03bam * r53798 10ItemPriceTooltip/ItemPriceTooltip.lua: |
| 17:04.05 | CIA-7 | ItemPriceTooltip: |
| 17:04.05 | CIA-7 | - Added locale zhCN (by yaroot) |
| 17:06.49 | *** join/#wowace ag` (n=Andreas@0x503e796a.bynxx18.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 17:07.18 | CIA-7 | 03bam * r53799 10ItemPrice-1.0/: |
| 17:07.18 | CIA-7 | ItemPrice-1.0: |
| 17:07.18 | CIA-7 | - Use ItemPrice-1.1 please. |
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| 17:12.05 | *** join/#wowace ScoTTie (n=scott@unaffiliated/scottie) |
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| 17:16.48 | *** mode/#wowace [+o nymbia] by ChanServ |
| 17:22.04 | xerawx | so i tried to heal in AV without grid + clique for a sec because i forgot to tick load out of date on the ptr client |
| 17:22.53 | xerawx | practically impossible |
| 17:23.01 | ulic | while I love those addons, they are crippling if you don't have them and are used to them. |
| 17:23.03 | nevcairiel | i would just say you suck |
| 17:23.20 | nevcairiel | a good player would be able to adapt to the given circumstances |
| 17:23.21 | nevcairiel | imho |
| 17:23.21 | Mudkips | which is why I never got to using clique :( |
| 17:23.31 | Mudkips | agreed nevcairiel |
| 17:23.39 | nevcairiel | i try to stay close to the default ui |
| 17:23.43 | ulic | nevcairiel: but if you forgot and you don't have any bars or what not set up for them. |
| 17:23.47 | Mudkips | it would be equivalent to me losing pitbull |
| 17:23.52 | Mudkips | it's devastating to raid without it |
| 17:24.02 | nevcairiel | ulic: you can pull out the blizz raid frames |
| 17:24.10 | Mudkips | nevcairiel |
| 17:24.13 | Mudkips | that's forbidden |
| 17:24.22 | xerawx | yeah i mean i haven't gotten totally dependent on addons, i never got into the old school healing mods that did everything for you |
| 17:24.31 | xerawx | i can click cast with macros too |
| 17:24.35 | xerawx | but in something like AV |
| 17:24.44 | xerawx | where you can't tell if someone is in range on the default ui |
| 17:24.49 | xerawx | good luck getting a greater heal to land |
| 17:24.51 | nevcairiel | granted, something like range detection is useful in av |
| 17:24.55 | Mudkips | you could always look at the ui? |
| 17:25.03 | Mudkips | err i mean the game... |
| 17:25.04 | ulic | nevcairiel: I mostly mean access to the spells, it's possible to adjust but takes time to get spells in useful places. |
| 17:25.16 | Mudkips | and click on that warrior being focused on |
| 17:25.44 | xerawx | looking at the "game" is not really practical in AV all the time |
| 17:25.53 | Mudkips | when I was resto, I just whispered the best warr I found with a big sword |
| 17:26.00 | Mudkips | I tell him to kill stuff and I keep him alive :) |
| 17:26.01 | xerawx | especially if you have to keep looking at that godawful blizzard raid frame |
| 17:26.02 | Mudkips | win win |
| 17:26.06 | nevcairiel | i can setup my healing in like 5 minutes |
| 17:26.11 | nevcairiel | pull all spells in the bars |
| 17:26.15 | nevcairiel | get some keybindings up |
| 17:26.19 | nevcairiel | and voila |
| 17:27.05 | xerawx | click casting is just so much faster |
| 17:27.08 | nevcairiel | the default ui really has improved over time |
| 17:27.23 | nevcairiel | xerawx: you have 1.5s global cooldown to switch target, whats faster in click casting? :) |
| 17:27.25 | xerawx | i dont mind click casting with macros but its kind of a pain to setup compared to clique |
| 17:27.40 | xerawx | nevcairiel: you click once instead of click, button |
| 17:27.50 | xerawx | you never have to switch target |
| 17:27.58 | nevcairiel | its still not "faster", its less clicks, not faster healing |
| 17:27.59 | xerawx | so you can keep a target and focus target and still heal anyone |
| 17:28.08 | xerawx | less clicks is faster |
| 17:28.11 | xerawx | obviously |
| 17:28.15 | Mudkips | not exactly |
| 17:28.24 | nevcairiel | if you sit around and wait for gcd to finish |
| 17:28.31 | nevcairiel | or click on your next target |
| 17:28.34 | Mudkips | i didnt use any of that and still put out as much healing output as other healers |
| 17:29.01 | xerawx | you haven't tried click casting then fine i understand you're skeptical |
| 17:29.03 | nevcairiel | if you use heals with cast time it even more time to change your target |
| 17:29.08 | nevcairiel | i tried it |
| 17:29.11 | xerawx | i can heal just fine with targetting |
| 17:29.12 | nevcairiel | and i didnt like it |
| 17:29.19 | Mudkips | yeah |
| 17:29.31 | Mudkips | It felt really really really weird healing someone that I dont have targeted |
| 17:29.34 | xerawx | but single click casting and not having to target every person you heal obviously is more efficient |
| 17:29.35 | nevcairiel | guess i am just oldschool |
| 17:29.42 | Mudkips | i hate overhealing and I cancel heal if they get 100% before mine lands |
| 17:29.45 | nevcairiel | how is it more efficient? |
| 17:29.51 | Mudkips | that's my reason for it |
| 17:29.59 | nevcairiel | i dont waste _any_ time at all |
| 17:30.03 | nevcairiel | i just use the gcd to target |
| 17:30.17 | vhaarr | I've been using click casting addons since MC, I wouldn't call using the standard UI any more old school |
| 17:30.35 | nevcairiel | i am not using the standard ui |
| 17:30.39 | nevcairiel | just no click casting |
| 17:30.54 | nevcairiel | i target in gcd, cast when its over |
| 17:31.10 | xerawx | it's still an extra click |
| 17:31.13 | Codayus | Click casting = 1 click. Other methods = 2 clicks. If your not chain casting, then that shaves a fraction of a second off your reaction time. |
| 17:31.21 | xerawx | its not about gcd or wasted time in game time per se |
| 17:31.28 | xerawx | its more clicking / buttons to target |
| 17:31.29 | Codayus | If you are chain casting, it's stell half the clicking leading to half the RSI. :-) |
| 17:31.41 | vhaarr | nevcairiel: you would never outheal me in raids without some sort of click casting |
| 17:31.50 | xerawx | plus you can't have the convience of always keeping MT or boss or whoever you want as target and still have seperate focus target |
| 17:31.54 | nevcairiel | vhaarr: haha, you wish |
| 17:32.04 | vhaarr | I'm not kidding |
| 17:32.14 | nevcairiel | neither am i |
| 17:32.34 | nevcairiel | its 1.5s gcd |
| 17:32.43 | nevcairiel | wtf is your reaction time when you cant use that to change target? |
| 17:32.57 | Codayus | I'm with vhaar, if you had two healers with precisely identical skill, gear, and lag... There are cases, however rare, where clickasting can save a fraction of a second, and NO the GCD isn't always there. |
| 17:33.38 | xerawx | Codayus: exactly.. in an OH SHI- situation targeting an overzealous DPSer takes longer than simply mouse clicking them |
| 17:33.40 | ulic | reaction time is irrelevent, it's really just about the clicks/button pushes, I think. |
| 17:33.54 | Codayus | (OTOH, I can't imagine it not being drowned out by chance and other factors by MANY orders of amgnitude. Nonetheless...) |
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| 17:34.46 | Codayus | But yeah, *I* do it because I don't like all the extra clicking. Plus I can stick my heals on my mouse, leaving action bars for useful stuff. YMMV. |
| 17:35.27 | nevcairiel | i hate running around with alot of modifier keys hold down all the time |
| 17:35.41 | nevcairiel | and i still need my leftclick and rightclick without casting some heal |
| 17:36.04 | cladhaire | nevcairiel: i agree |
| 17:36.13 | cladhaire | i have all my spells on my hotbar, so i can heal without clique if necessary { |
| 17:36.41 | nevcairiel | i need some smartass clique that knows when i want to cast the heal, and when i want the rightclick context menu |
| 17:36.45 | nevcairiel | cladhaire: get to work :D |
| 17:36.56 | cladhaire | haha |
| 17:37.08 | xerawx | i have a crapload of binds still, and all heals available as keys but in almost all situations i'd prefer to use the mouse because i've found its simply faster for me |
| 17:37.18 | cladhaire | nevcairiel: wouldn't b e too tough actually |
| 17:37.24 | Codayus | *shrug* I don't use right click...but then, I don't mind hitting modifiers... |
| 17:37.25 | nevcairiel | cladhaire: not? |
| 17:37.28 | cladhaire | check to see if you or anyone in your party is affecting combat. |
| 17:37.29 | ulic | maybe just check InCombat? |
| 17:37.35 | cladhaire | if so, then menu :P |
| 17:37.53 | nevcairiel | ah well, i might need to assign raid icons in combat or so |
| 17:37.58 | nevcairiel | that was my main issue |
| 17:38.01 | Codayus | Yeah, that'd get it right about 90% of the time, and if you just use right-click for a heal you don't really cast OOC... |
| 17:38.25 | ulic | I assign raid icons with keybinding, so useful especially when in-combat doing it fast. |
| 17:38.43 | cladhaire | :P |
| 17:38.48 | Codayus | Oooh! |
| 17:38.53 | Codayus | Use SimpleRaidTargetIcons |
| 17:39.01 | nevcairiel | whats that do? |
| 17:39.05 | Codayus | Let's you double-click on the 3d model of the mob, brings up a radial menu. |
| 17:39.11 | nevcairiel | oh nice |
| 17:39.16 | Codayus | I <3 it very very much. |
| 17:39.39 | nevcairiel | ah well, i am maintank healing most of the time anyway |
| 17:39.42 | Codayus | Double click...click. Double click...click. Keybinds are probably faster, but I'm kinda...out. |
| 17:39.45 | nevcairiel | thats one or maybe 2 fixed targets |
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| 17:40.01 | nevcairiel | works without click casting |
| 17:40.07 | Codayus | And it's a HELL of a lot faster than the context menu. Try it! :-) |
| 17:40.16 | xerawx | number pad is convenient for raid icons i find |
| 17:40.17 | ulic | also I've found MarkMyWords useful, let's other non-leaders mark targets. |
| 17:40.17 | nevcairiel | on wowi? |
| 17:40.19 | Mudkips | I use my numpad for raid targets |
| 17:40.28 | Mudkips | 4-9 are all shapes |
| 17:40.36 | ulic | and you CAN set permissions |
| 17:40.39 | Mudkips | usually don't need more than that |
| 17:41.27 | nevcairiel | that reminds me |
| 17:41.33 | nevcairiel | i wanted to clean up my UI |
| 17:42.20 | nevcairiel | too much eye movement between timers and target frame, i noticed recently |
| 17:42.33 | ulic | Codayus: where is that addon? I don't see it on wowace or wowinterface. |
| 17:42.49 | Codayus | Hmm, uh... |
| 17:42.54 | nevcairiel | its on curse |
| 17:42.58 | ulic | hm I found it on wowi |
| 17:43.00 | Codayus | I followed a link from EJ, it might have been on curse? |
| 17:44.42 | ulic | hmm, it also 5-man assistants to set raid icons |
| 17:45.36 | ulic | +supports |
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| 17:49.49 | CIA-7 | 03mikk 07Beta * r53800 10Ace3/AceConfig-3.0/ (2 files in 2 dirs): |
| 17:49.49 | CIA-7 | Ace3 - AceConfig: |
| 17:49.49 | CIA-7 | - Change "slash" type to "cmd" in AceConfigRegistry to match nomenclature used elsewhere. |
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| 18:28.51 | RaydenUni | so are you guys downloading the 2.3 patch? |
| 18:28.58 | RaydenUni | my downloader comes up but i don't download anything |
| 18:29.45 | CIA-7 | 03ammo 07Ace3 * r53801 10ammoDurability/Durability.lua: |
| 18:29.45 | CIA-7 | ammoDurability: |
| 18:29.45 | CIA-7 | - better resetting of the armored man when clicking reset. |
| 18:29.45 | CIA-7 | - Position average durability topleft of the armored man to not overlay the questtracker in default UI. |
| 18:29.59 | ulic | yes, I downloaded it all between Thursday and Friday |
| 18:30.18 | RaydenUni | every so often it pops up a box saying it lost connection |
| 18:30.25 | RaydenUni | i haven't had problems with previous patches |
| 18:30.47 | ulic | other then a lack of peers on thursday I really had no issues |
| 18:31.10 | RaydenUni | yeah i just started the downloader and it told me it lost connection |
| 18:31.11 | RaydenUni | odd |
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| 18:31.46 | ulic | it's huge too, 222MB |
| 18:31.55 | RaydenUni | you can always download from http right? |
| 18:32.19 | ulic | the downloader should always be able to get some via their http source yes. |
| 18:33.17 | RaydenUni | no i mean can i just avoid using the downloader |
| 18:33.30 | Lukian | of course |
| 18:33.43 | RLD_osx | got it 2 days in a row |
| 18:34.29 | CIA-7 | 03next96 * r53802 10FuBar_DurabilityFu/DurabilityFuLocale-koKR.lua: |
| 18:34.29 | CIA-7 | FuBar_DurabilityFu: |
| 18:34.29 | CIA-7 | - Update locale koKR |
| 18:34.55 | *** join/#wowace charon (n=charon@77-56-223-244.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:35.21 | ulic | dunno, never tried to find their http source and do a normal http download |
| 18:35.35 | RaydenUni | stupid mobs around the apexis |
| 18:35.37 | *** join/#wowace zac (n=zac@adium/zacw) |
| 18:35.43 | RaydenUni | had almost finished |
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| 18:39.22 | Xelopheris | grrr, anyone have any suggestions on how to add a unit's target to an aloft nameplate? |
| 18:39.41 | Lukian | rkf |
| 18:39.49 | Lukian | rofl, Recount is using 24MB |
| 18:39.57 | Xelopheris | DMs always do |
| 18:40.03 | Lukian | no they don't |
| 18:40.03 | Xelopheris | because of th ehuge amount of data they hold |
| 18:40.09 | Xelopheris | not necessarily 24 MB |
| 18:40.17 | charon | Lukian: disable timeline data if you're worried about memory |
| 18:40.21 | Lukian | swstats is using 2.4MB :p |
| 18:40.28 | RaydenUni | mine is using less than 3mb |
| 18:40.38 | RaydenUni | how do you check to see how much a specific mod is using? |
| 18:41.00 | Lukian | Fubar Usage |
| 18:41.21 | RaydenUni | how do you turn off auto attack when you right click? |
| 18:41.40 | charon | calling Recount a DM doesn't quite do it right anyway |
| 18:41.50 | Lukian | RaydenUni, train yourself to left client instead |
| 18:41.53 | RaydenUni | can't tell you how many times i've died in a town because of that |
| 18:41.54 | RaydenUni | s |
| 18:42.04 | RaydenUni | you can talk to npcs with left click? |
| 18:42.04 | Lukian | click* |
| 18:42.10 | Lukian | nah |
| 18:42.18 | Lukian | but you can target them and check nothing is in the way :p |
| 18:42.38 | RaydenUni | my mouse curser shows me talking and not attacking |
| 18:42.40 | RaydenUni | i click and attack |
| 18:43.49 | Chompers | turn your back on the target |
| 18:43.52 | Chompers | then click |
| 18:45.36 | Lukian | <charon> Lukian: disable timeline data if you're worried about memory <- where is this setting? |
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| 18:46.20 | charon | Lukian: open the settings window via the cogwheel icon in the main display |
| 18:46.33 | Chompers | is 24mb really that bad? |
| 18:46.36 | charon | go to the Data tab and uncheck everything in the stopwatch icon column |
| 18:46.40 | Chompers | do you only have 30mb total memory? |
| 18:46.44 | Lukian | Chompers, no, but it annoys me |
| 18:47.07 | Lukian | charon, ty |
| 18:47.27 | charon | they are situationally extremely useful (try threat graphs for all melee at gruul) but i usually leave them disabled as well because it seems to cause periodic slowdowns on my system |
| 18:47.31 | charon | i'm not 100% sure there though |
| 18:47.58 | Lukian | I ran AV for the first time in a while and some addon(s) were causing hella lag |
| 18:50.09 | Lukian | charon, any idea how I nuke it's current data? |
| 18:51.46 | CIA-7 | 03ammo 07Ace3 * r53803 10ammoDurability/Durability.lua: ammoDurability: bugfix showing or hiding the durabilityframe when our threshold is higher than blizzards. |
| 18:52.31 | Chompers | press the icon with the x through it |
| 18:52.39 | Chompers | its on the same line as the cog |
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| 18:55.27 | Krittick | Anyone know if nQuestLog hooks Lightheaded to display comments, or does it use its own comment database? For some reason, the two most recent revs don't show comments anymore. |
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| 19:03.30 | qwesto | Krittick, as far as I know, it hooks LightHeaded. |
| 19:04.37 | Krittick | Hrm. It's definitely not displaying the comments any more. There's not even an option to show them in the menu anymore. |
| 19:04.52 | Krittick | ah well, I'll go back a couple revs until it's fixed. |
| 19:07.24 | musxehc | :( i just alt+f4 wow after id setup pitbull differently - goodbye changes |
| 19:08.16 | Xinhuan | they are saved |
| 19:08.20 | Xinhuan | if you alt-f4 |
| 19:08.58 | Xinhuan | they aren't saved only if you forcibly close wow by task manager or other means (or a wow crash) |
| 19:09.19 | nevcairiel | alt-f4 doesnt save |
| 19:09.21 | nevcairiel | last i did it |
| 19:09.26 | Xinhuan | yes it does |
| 19:09.39 | Xinhuan | alt-f4 performs a normal log out and writes all savedvar files |
| 19:09.52 | *** join/#wowace WRider (n=na@204.191.192.72) |
| 19:10.01 | Xinhuan | alt-f4 doesn't log you out to the char login screen, that's all |
| 19:10.43 | Xinhuan | i've alt-f4ed all my life and it has always saved my savevars, with timestamps updated and checked via windows explorer |
| 19:12.00 | musxehc | yeah t did save them but ive done it before and it didnt |
| 19:12.42 | Xinhuan | /shrug |
| 19:12.49 | Xinhuan | never encountered such an issue before |
| 19:13.02 | Xinhuan | but then again, i use FAT32 |
| 19:13.06 | Xinhuan | and not NTFS |
| 19:13.27 | Xinhuan | as such, my addons don't load in alphabetical order either |
| 19:13.45 | Xinhuan | they load in the order the disk system returns them in - the natural disk order they are stored in |
| 19:14.02 | nevcairiel | i hated that about FAT |
| 19:14.10 | nevcairiel | no automatic tree ordering |
| 19:14.45 | Xinhuan | well too many people assume people use NTFS, and try to name their addons beginning with ! |
| 19:15.44 | nevcairiel | thats because Win9x is no longer supported, and FAT has no advantage over NTFS on 2000/xp |
| 19:16.06 | Xinhuan | i use a FAT32 disk on winxp |
| 19:16.29 | nevcairiel | i didnt say it wont work |
| 19:16.35 | nevcairiel | just that there are no advantages |
| 19:16.38 | nevcairiel | (i know of, anyway) |
| 19:16.56 | Xinhuan | the ntfs "fat table" uses more space |
| 19:17.04 | Xinhuan | to store file permissions |
| 19:17.20 | nevcairiel | but it has smaller clusters, thus saving space on small files |
| 19:17.54 | Xinhuan | you can make small clusters on FAT32 as well |
| 19:18.06 | Xinhuan | mine's set to 4 kb but you can change it lower |
| 19:18.18 | Xinhuan | or higher |
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| 19:19.04 | nevcairiel | dont you limit your max capacity by lowering the cluster size on fat? i dont remember anymore, but there was some issue with that |
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| 19:19.37 | Xinhuan | i don't think so, at least ive never encountered such an issue |
| 19:19.56 | Xinhuan | my harddisks are partitioned into small chunks of 20 or 40 gbs anyway |
| 19:21.45 | nevcairiel | ah there was a 128gb volume limit too, thats why i couldnt use it anyway |
| 19:22.46 | *** join/#wowace mort_ (n=mort@azureus/mort) |
| 19:24.39 | *** join/#wowace MoonWolf (n=MoonWolf@g34212.upc-g.chello.nl) |
| 19:25.39 | charon | Lukian: re, sorry, but well, what c.hompers said ;) |
| 19:27.27 | *** join/#wowace sb (n=sb@dslb-084-056-146-097.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:27.48 | CIA-7 | 03cwdg * r53805 10BigWigs/ (16 files in 8 dirs): BigWigs: add zulAman's zhCN local and fix other bossmods' zhCN local |
| 19:28.18 | *** join/#wowace zi (n=root@32.160.46.17) |
| 19:28.56 | sb | hm [Ammo] - adding pets as oRA2 PT throws errors |
| 19:29.45 | nevcairiel | thats because pets are not supported by the raidheader natively |
| 19:29.49 | nevcairiel | live with it |
| 19:29.50 | nevcairiel | :) |
| 19:30.01 | sb | meh :) |
| 19:38.10 | *** part/#wowace cladhaire (n=cladhair@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire) |
| 19:38.17 | *** join/#wowace cladhaire (n=cladhair@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire) |
| 19:38.17 | *** mode/#wowace [+v cladhaire] by ChanServ |
| 19:38.18 | *** part/#wowace cladhaire (n=cladhair@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire) |
| 19:38.24 | CIA-7 | 03funkydude * r53806 10BigWigs/Plugins/BossBlock.lua: BigWigs: Plugins/BossBlock: Since when does translating zhCN involve removing koKR cwdg? |
| 19:38.40 | *** join/#wowace cladhaire (n=cladhair@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire) |
| 19:38.40 | *** mode/#wowace [+v cladhaire] by ChanServ |
| 19:38.41 | *** join/#wowace Mats_ (n=Mats@213.211.167.141) |
| 19:40.41 | *** join/#wowace Diao` (i=vschiu@ip68-225-241-221.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 19:46.40 | backbone87 | will the game hang, if a addon does something time intensive calculations and if, is there a way to let it run "in background"? |
| 19:47.03 | Matsy | Every addon gets loaded at his / her own thread. |
| 19:47.06 | Matsy | So, no. |
| 19:47.26 | nevcairiel | you can use coroutines and OnUpdate schedules |
| 19:47.28 | nevcairiel | its been done. |
| 19:47.39 | Matsy | Thats true |
| 19:49.04 | backbone87 | hmmm |
| 19:49.37 | *** join/#wowace Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/Tekkub) |
| 19:49.37 | *** mode/#wowace [+v Tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 19:50.44 | backbone87 | the interpreter handles synchronizations? |
| 19:53.32 | CIA-7 | 03xinhuan * r53807 10WoWEquip/ (WoWEquip.lua WoWEquipData.lua): |
| 19:53.32 | CIA-7 | WoWEquip: - Fix error with Enchant Ring - Spellpower. |
| 19:53.33 | CIA-7 | - Add initial code for racial bonuses (not complete yet, you won't see any changes in any calculations). |
| 19:54.13 | Xinhuan | no. |
| 19:54.29 | *** join/#wowace FrostByghte (n=frostbyg@70-250-240-34.ded.swbell.net) |
| 19:54.39 | Ozguli | backbone87 the game will freeze |
| 19:54.42 | Ozguli | for a moment |
| 19:54.51 | Xinhuan | there are no such things as "threads" in lua |
| 19:54.59 | Ozguli | as when ludwig or some similar addon with huge amount of data is loaded |
| 19:55.17 | backbone87 | hmmm |
| 19:55.23 | nevcairiel | you can like say, only run 100 chunks of data in this frame, and continue in the next |
| 19:55.25 | Ozguli | where I remember, is there some way to scan items? |
| 19:55.26 | nevcairiel | to minimize freeze |
| 19:55.38 | Xinhuan | the way to "let a intensive calculation" that may potential "hang" the system for a while, is to break it up into smaller parts |
| 19:55.46 | backbone87 | there are coroutines explained in the RM, are they disabled in wow? |
| 19:55.49 | Ozguli | addon etc, so that I get greater searchable item library |
| 19:55.52 | Xinhuan | and use OnUpdates to do each part |
| 19:56.01 | Xinhuan | coroutines work in wow |
| 19:56.09 | Xinhuan | but it is fairly painful to implement |
| 19:56.13 | Xinhuan | in conjuction with onupdates |
| 19:56.39 | backbone87 | cant run a coroutine and check a ready state with onupdate? |
| 19:56.53 | Xinhuan | coroutines are NOT threads |
| 19:57.13 | Matsy | That's lame. |
| 19:57.15 | backbone87 | so the script is not finished, if not all coroutines are? |
| 19:57.22 | Xinhuan | they are merely functions that remember their own state/locals, so you can resume running them after a yield() call |
| 19:57.34 | Matsy | I thought WoW used threads? |
| 19:57.43 | Xinhuan | you cannot pre-empt a coroutine |
| 19:57.49 | Matsy | Whenever a script is loaded in its memory |
| 19:58.25 | Xinhuan | nope |
| 19:58.40 | Xinhuan | if you do /run while true do end |
| 19:58.44 | Xinhuan | you will hang your wow. |
| 19:58.50 | Matsy | .... They should fix that. |
| 19:59.00 | Xinhuan | they don't have to |
| 19:59.02 | Matsy | Why not? |
| 19:59.13 | Xinhuan | programmers aren't supposed to write addons that hang wow |
| 19:59.14 | nevcairiel | because you are stupid if you do that |
| 19:59.23 | Matsy | Maybe not in that context |
| 19:59.23 | Xinhuan | and users wouldn't use such addons |
| 19:59.32 | *** join/#wowace Stanzilla (n=Stanzill@p5499791E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:59.38 | Matsy | But, Using addons that could interfere badly with the gameplay is a bad thing. |
| 19:59.55 | nevcairiel | its your free choice to use addons |
| 19:59.56 | Xinhuan | such addons are known to be badly coded - and hence nobody will use them |
| 19:59.59 | backbone87 | if i setup a coroutine i can run it for a time, stop it and run it for another piece of time at the next onupdate? |
| 20:00.02 | Xinhuan | an example is KTM |
| 20:00.10 | Matsy | Lolol |
| 20:00.16 | Xinhuan | backbone87: correct |
| 20:00.29 | backbone87 | hmmm |
| 20:00.36 | CIA-7 | 03cwdg * r53808 10Babble-2.2/ (3 files in 3 dirs): |
| 20:00.36 | CIA-7 | Babble-2.2: |
| 20:00.36 | CIA-7 | -update tradeskill zhCN local |
| 20:00.37 | CIA-7 | *fix spelltree and zone local |
| 20:00.50 | Xinhuan | Cartographer_Routes uses coroutines to perform long calculations that can take minutes on slow computers |
| 20:00.52 | backbone87 | a little bit dirty but it does its job |
| 20:00.56 | Xinhuan | to calculate an optimal TSP route |
| 20:01.08 | Xinhuan | took me half a day to write the coroutine code |
| 20:01.24 | nevcairiel | how slow does a computer have to be to need minutes? |
| 20:01.34 | Xinhuan | well we're talking about some 500 nodes nevcairiel |
| 20:01.41 | Xinhuan | and calculating a TSP for it |
| 20:01.44 | *** join/#wowace [AR]Camci (n=enescamc@c-2d32e353.572-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:01.49 | nevcairiel | i should test that |
| 20:01.50 | backbone87 | route calcs are hard things when you have many nodes |
| 20:02.04 | Xinhuan | on my system, which is a dualcore 6650 |
| 20:02.10 | Xinhuan | it takes 40 secs of hanging wow |
| 20:02.21 | backbone87 | ^^ |
| 20:02.23 | Xinhuan | or about 2 minutes when using coroutines without hanging wow |
| 20:02.29 | backbone87 | what algo you use? |
| 20:02.30 | Xinhuan | but framerate still does drop |
| 20:02.40 | Xinhuan | because its still intensive |
| 20:02.55 | Xinhuan | and so i do warn users that they shouldn't be doing such stuff in combat |
| 20:03.09 | Xinhuan | i use a genetic algo called Ant Colony |
| 20:03.15 | Xinhuan | along with 2-opt |
| 20:03.25 | Xinhuan | and a option to include in 2.5-opt |
| 20:04.18 | backbone87 | nice work ;) |
| 20:04.44 | Xinhuan | basically, you need a frame. when you first create the coroutine, you set the frame's onupdate to "resume" the coroutine you pass to it |
| 20:04.58 | Xinhuan | inside the coroutine, you call yield() at various places |
| 20:05.07 | Xinhuan | which passes control back to the onupdate |
| 20:05.18 | backbone87 | pretty easy |
| 20:05.23 | *** part/#wowace anko (n=root@207-38-219-18.c3-0.elm-ubr3.qens-elm.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 20:05.28 | Xinhuan | based on the return values of the resume() call -- you get the return values of the yield() call |
| 20:05.29 | *** join/#wowace Kalroth (n=kalroth@port114.ds1-hj.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 20:05.39 | Xinhuan | you can determine if the coroutine is still running |
| 20:05.52 | Xinhuan | if it is,resume it next onupdate, else use the return values |
| 20:06.03 | *** join/#wowace MentalPower|AFK (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 20:06.03 | *** mode/#wowace [+v MentalPower|AFK] by ChanServ |
| 20:06.03 | Xinhuan | then unset the onupdate |
| 20:06.28 | Xinhuan | you will also need additional checks to make sure you don't start a 2nd coroutine while a 1st coroutine is already running |
| 20:06.47 | backbone87 | that should be easy |
| 20:06.53 | Xinhuan | unless you intend to let an unlimited number of coroutines run and store a reference to each coroutine in an array |
| 20:06.57 | Xinhuan | and resume each one in turn |
| 20:07.03 | backbone87 | as long as onupdate script is set you dont start a new calc |
| 20:07.53 | Xinhuan | coroutines run in its own state environment - which means all errors that occur in it CANNOT be caught by bugsack or swatter, etc |
| 20:08.08 | Xinhuan | any errors that occur get returned in the resume() call |
| 20:08.12 | Xinhuan | in the 2nd arg |
| 20:08.26 | Ozguli | so you don't know an addon which lets me query the server for virtually all items for a complete database? |
| 20:08.33 | Xinhuan | so if you implement a coroutine.. make sure the damn function works first |
| 20:08.44 | Xinhuan | Ozguli: no such addon exists |
| 20:09.01 | Ozguli | damn... so I need to see everything by myself? |
| 20:09.04 | Xinhuan | the server now actively disconnects you if you ask for more than 3 or 4 invalid links within a 30 sec or so time period |
| 20:09.13 | nevcairiel | you could still write such addons |
| 20:09.17 | Xinhuan | so unless you want to query the server for 1item per minute |
| 20:09.18 | nevcairiel | it would just take ages to scan |
| 20:09.20 | nevcairiel | *shrug |
| 20:09.25 | Xinhuan | taking about 2 months to scan 35000 items |
| 20:09.36 | Xinhuan | such an addon would be unfeasible |
| 20:09.45 | nevcairiel | depends on how many of those items are actually invalid |
| 20:10.03 | Xinhuan | only the server knows that its invalid though |
| 20:10.11 | nevcairiel | you can obviously continue querying if you got a valid one |
| 20:10.19 | nevcairiel | and only have to stop the schedule if you got a invalid |
| 20:10.30 | nevcairiel | (if you can actually determine that) |
| 20:10.37 | Xinhuan | i'm not absolutely sure how the server determines when to disconnect you |
| 20:10.55 | Xinhuan | but i got disconnected so often while writing such an addon, i simply gave up |
| 20:11.12 | Xinhuan | if you look in wowequip, i've got an entire 2 page code commented out for this purpose |
| 20:11.24 | backbone87 | i like things like swstats, but i hate like they slow down my fps :/ |
| 20:11.24 | Xinhuan | with editboxes to key in the start/end itemIDs to scan |
| 20:11.45 | Xinhuan | even with 1 itemID every 10 secs querying, i still get d/ced after 2 minutes |
| 20:11.46 | backbone87 | so an addon which syncs after combat, would be a nice thing |
| 20:12.24 | Ozguli | hmm, I'll check how much links my Ludwig has |
| 20:12.26 | Xinhuan | and if i can only scan 6 items per min == 360 per hour == 100 hours to scan 36000 itemIDs |
| 20:12.33 | Xinhuan | its pretty dumb |
| 20:12.44 | Ozguli | noticed that I can't actually link crap at wednesdays |
| 20:12.48 | Xinhuan | esp if you only play 2-3 hours a day |
| 20:13.04 | backbone87 | share it in your guild xin ^^ |
| 20:13.17 | Xinhuan | lol@ asking ppl to install mods |
| 20:13.21 | backbone87 | ^^ |
| 20:13.25 | Ozguli | mm |
| 20:13.29 | Xinhuan | only took a few months to get ppl to switch to omen |
| 20:13.33 | Matsy | Xinhuan, |
| 20:13.34 | Ozguli | with some friends, maybe IRL ones, it might work |
| 20:13.40 | *** join/#wowace kd3 (n=kd3|hate@74.40.36.166) |
| 20:13.42 | Xinhuan | it'll still be slow |
| 20:13.51 | Ozguli | sure it will |
| 20:13.51 | CIA-7 | 03celellach * r53809 10AtlasLoot_RepFactions/rep.lua: |
| 20:13.51 | CIA-7 | AtlasLoot_RepFactions: |
| 20:13.51 | CIA-7 | - Added item IDs for the Violet Eye rewards and the Item ID and icon for the Tiny Spore Bat |
| 20:13.51 | Matsy | That's a pretty large project |
| 20:13.53 | Xinhuan | and every patch wipes the cache |
| 20:13.55 | Lukian | gkick unless you install omen |
| 20:13.58 | Lukian | kthxbai :p |
| 20:14.07 | backbone87 | you need at least 100 ppl to get it in a comfortable time |
| 20:14.09 | Ozguli | hah perfect method |
| 20:14.41 | Ozguli | my guild had "EVERYONE is online when we schedule raids, or gets kicked" |
| 20:15.04 | Xinhuan | you might as well start writing a distributed bittorrent method across the whole server, synced by no central server (decentralized tracking) and make this a library |
| 20:15.15 | Xinhuan | for data sharing |
| 20:15.16 | Xinhuan | lol |
| 20:15.21 | kenlyric | PUT IT IN ROCK! |
| 20:15.22 | backbone87 | ^^ |
| 20:15.30 | CIA-7 | 03celellach * r53810 10AtlasLoot_SetsandPvP/GeneralPvP.en.lua: |
| 20:15.30 | CIA-7 | AtlasLoot_SetsandPvP: |
| 20:15.30 | CIA-7 | - Added more arena season 3 item IDs |
| 20:15.31 | backbone87 | oO |
| 20:15.43 | kenlyric | it's eating your talents and your loots |
| 20:15.53 | Xinhuan | i mean, ideas are ideas, but you gotta be realistic ;p |
| 20:16.27 | kenlyric | I just don't get why blizzard plays so cagey? |
| 20:16.27 | backbone87 | the decentral sharing are quite easy |
| 20:17.08 | Xinhuan | well if 1000 people have different itemIDs to share data to each other each |
| 20:17.14 | Xinhuan | it would be easy to datamine |
| 20:17.21 | kenlyric | why does the cache have to reset every patch. |
| 20:17.23 | Xinhuan | but of course i'm not going to write such a addon |
| 20:17.35 | Xinhuan | kenlyric: because itemtooltips change, as well as various items |
| 20:17.36 | kenlyric | why does the server "known items" reset every restart? |
| 20:17.48 | backbone87 | you distribute your largest chunk of connected ids via group/guild channel like: I have x-y |
| 20:18.12 | backbone87 | then you get asks for specific id z to share with player a |
| 20:18.13 | kenlyric | Xinhuan: that doesn't explain why the cache resets. just overwrite the cache. |
| 20:18.23 | backbone87 | you share it |
| 20:18.33 | Xinhuan | kenlyric: the client doesn't request the server for the item more than once per patch |
| 20:18.41 | backbone87 | it would be fast and no unnecessary shares |
| 20:18.54 | Ozguli | 11 381 items in my Ludwig database |
| 20:18.57 | Xinhuan | once an item is in your local cache, it will never request the server for that item again |
| 20:19.12 | Ozguli | 4 legendary ones |
| 20:19.18 | Xinhuan | if that data is corrupted, the only way to fix it is to delete itemcache.wdb |
| 20:19.25 | Xinhuan | to get new data |
| 20:19.44 | Ozguli | so I have like third of all stuff? |
| 20:19.50 | backbone87 | and the "local" server scan continues at the end/begin of your largest chunk (to get a larger one) |
| 20:19.51 | Xinhuan | no Ozguli |
| 20:20.00 | kenlyric | so why not just drop every item in? |
| 20:20.12 | Xinhuan | of all the itemiD numbers from 1 to 35000, only about 13k are actually used |
| 20:20.17 | CIA-7 | 03celellach * r53811 10AtlasLoot_SetsandPvP/sets.en.lua: |
| 20:20.17 | CIA-7 | AtlasLoot_SetsandPvP: |
| 20:20.17 | CIA-7 | - Added the new arena mount |
| 20:20.25 | Ozguli | oh cool |
| 20:20.29 | Xinhuan | they allocate itemIDs by chunks or a range of numbers to each new zone/event/etc |
| 20:20.41 | Xinhuan | and item designers just use part of the allocated IDs |
| 20:20.48 | kenlyric | and you can scrape it all out of the armory. |
| 20:20.56 | backbone87 | dont know how lua reacts with a table of 35000 items |
| 20:21.02 | Ozguli | I have some small amount of missing instance loot |
| 20:21.17 | Ozguli | and low-lvl gray stuff obviously |
| 20:21.17 | Xinhuan | Ozguli: my lootlink has about 13k base items |
| 20:21.31 | Ozguli | how'd you gather them? |
| 20:21.34 | Xinhuan | if you count all the different suffixes on variious greens |
| 20:21.41 | Xinhuan | i have about 62k items |
| 20:21.56 | Ozguli | oh those |
| 20:22.05 | Xinhuan | when patch 2.2 first came out, in the first week, you could scan all 1-35000 within like 10 minutes |
| 20:22.08 | Xinhuan | withotu being disconnected |
| 20:22.12 | Xinhuan | they hotfixed that quickly |
| 20:22.18 | Ozguli | explains |
| 20:22.21 | *** join/#wowace Awaa (i=wabbit@c-96c770d5.07-26-6f72652.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:22.24 | Ozguli | can the database be shared? |
| 20:22.33 | Xinhuan | probably |
| 20:22.55 | Xinhuan | but i use a copy of lootlink that is edited for my own purposes (saeris lootlink, not telo's) |
| 20:23.07 | kenlyric | that's the benefit of lootlink over one that reads from itemcache. |
| 20:23.13 | kenlyric | but of course it's a lot bigger. |
| 20:23.19 | *** part/#wowace emagdnim (n=mindgame@217.54.100.97.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 20:23.20 | Xinhuan | so my database is probably unusable to anyone but me |
| 20:23.56 | Xinhuan | yeah its about 13.5 mb savedvar |
| 20:24.07 | Xinhuan | or about 20 mb in game |
| 20:24.22 | Ozguli | evil |
| 20:24.45 | Xinhuan | i wrote my own !item bot for guil chat |
| 20:24.53 | backbone87 | is there a faster method for "plain" substitution works, than gsub? |
| 20:25.18 | Xinhuan | it also works on IRC channel, since i wrote a copy of it as a dll extension for irc |
| 20:25.29 | Xinhuan | but i disabled it in this channel cos thraebot is here |
| 20:27.04 | Xinhuan | backbone87: nope |
| 20:27.32 | Xinhuan | its the only method you have from the string library |
| 20:27.57 | Ozguli | new idea |
| 20:28.05 | Xinhuan | unless you want to play with string.find to get indexes then play with extracting subtrings, and then concantenating the new one |
| 20:28.15 | Ozguli | could some addon query server just for the working links? |
| 20:28.38 | Ozguli | (new one obviously) |
| 20:28.55 | Ozguli | like, you have at least almost all working links |
| 20:28.59 | Xinhuan | Ozguli: possible, but... currently no idea how/what the server detects as spam or datamining and d/cs you |
| 20:29.19 | Xinhuan | its been changing every week last 2-3 weeks |
| 20:29.30 | Ozguli | hmm. |
| 20:29.48 | Xinhuan | also a "working link" is only that which the server has seen before since reboot |
| 20:29.56 | Xinhuan | which you have no way of knowing |
| 20:30.34 | *** join/#wowace Someoneelse (n=jegerher@ti131310a340-3829.bb.online.no) |
| 20:30.36 | Xinhuan | say your guildie killed illidan has this awesome cloak. but until he logs on with it, the server would see it as a invalid link and give no response to queries on it |
| 20:31.34 | *** join/#wowace Paradox (n=Paradox@spc1-brmb4-0-0-cust10.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 20:32.00 | Xinhuan | the definition of a invalid link is hence whatever the server hasn't seen before since reboot |
| 20:32.48 | Xinhuan | from a server point of view, 1. prevents data mining 2. the server loads items from its internal databases into memory as it sees them -- load on demand |
| 20:34.11 | Xinhuan | there are some items that always seems to be available to query though - gems for example |
| 20:34.31 | Xinhuan | i've found that all gems are queryable - whether anyone on the server has them or not |
| 20:35.20 | *** join/#wowace duckdodgers (n=juliosot@76.91.68.217) |
| 20:35.29 | duckdodgers | hello |
| 20:35.37 | duckdodgers | i have a question |
| 20:36.02 | CIA-7 | 03quagmire * r53812 10nQuestLog/modules/modules.xml: |
| 20:36.02 | CIA-7 | nQuestLog:modules\modules.xml |
| 20:36.02 | CIA-7 | - Readded Comments module to list of modules to load |
| 20:36.02 | Xinhuan | shoot |
| 20:36.20 | duckdodgers | i downloaded quite few ace mods on my desktop |
| 20:36.36 | duckdodgers | on my minimap I have a tooltip icon that will et me access all the mods |
| 20:36.44 | duckdodgers | so I don't need 30 icons |
| 20:36.56 | duckdodgers | on my laptop I downloaded on those my guild uses for raiding |
| 20:37.03 | duckdodgers | i dont' see that little tooltip icon |
| 20:37.08 | duckdodgers | which mod gives me that? |
| 20:37.22 | Xinhuan | does that tooltip icon look like a wrench or a rock? |
| 20:37.29 | duckdodgers | yeah |
| 20:37.32 | duckdodgers | was a rock |
| 20:37.34 | Matsy | Oh |
| 20:37.36 | Xinhuan | that icon is part of the Rock framework |
| 20:37.37 | duckdodgers | then it becamse a wrench |
| 20:37.45 | duckdodgers | *became |
| 20:37.59 | Xinhuan | it comes with any of Fubar, Cowtip, Cartographer |
| 20:38.03 | Xinhuan | or Pitbull |
| 20:38.07 | duckdodgers | actaully lokos liek a screw. and rads "tooltip prefrences" |
| 20:38.16 | Xinhuan | well yeah, whatever it looks like |
| 20:38.26 | duckdodgers | can I dl it byitself? |
| 20:38.27 | Xinhuan | you have one of the listed addons above on your desktop but not your laptop |
| 20:38.32 | *** join/#wowace Poul|Raider (n=raider@82.211.214.74) |
| 20:38.38 | Xinhuan | not really duckdodgers |
| 20:38.39 | ulic | try /rock maybe the minimap icon got turned off |
| 20:38.50 | Xinhuan | ulic: he WANTS the icon ;p |
| 20:38.55 | duckdodgers | my lapto has cartograhper |
| 20:39.07 | duckdodgers | i'll try it |
| 20:39.10 | Xinhuan | install cartographer on the desktop then, and you'll have it |
| 20:39.35 | ulic | well there is an option to turn the icon on or off, and /rock will take you to the gui to toggle it. if of course Rock or a Rock addon is installed. |
| 20:39.55 | Xinhuan | you can think of Rock similarly to Ace2 |
| 20:40.13 | Xinhuan | many addons are "Ace2 Addons", and some addons are "Rock addons" |
| 20:40.23 | Ozguli | as a test I went querying the instance loot |
| 20:40.34 | Ozguli | started from kalimdor |
| 20:40.39 | Ozguli | dire maul east -> dc |
| 20:40.52 | Xinhuan | you tried to query too many items at the same time Ozguli |
| 20:41.11 | Xinhuan | the limit seems to be like 2 or 3 every 10 or 20 secs, no idea what the damn limit is |
| 20:41.24 | Xinhuan | but it seems to be lower than what i said |
| 20:42.26 | Xinhuan | your itemcache is also filled up by every item you see other people wearing |
| 20:42.43 | Xinhuan | for example, lets say you're Horde and you're a tauren warrior |
| 20:43.08 | Xinhuan | if you see an alliance player walking by you and he's wearing a headgear from illidan, that item and everything he's equipped will be in your local cache |
| 20:43.27 | Xinhuan | so just standing in the middle of Shattrath for a few hours would populate your local cache pretty fast |
| 20:43.47 | Xinhuan | as anything that comes within 100 yards of you gets downloaded to your local cache |
| 20:44.34 | duckdodgers | antoher question |
| 20:44.39 | Xinhuan | wow.exe doesn't actually write the contents of the local cache to the file until you exist wow.exe though -- you must exit to desktop |
| 20:44.42 | duckdodgers | how do I move those BigWig bars? |
| 20:45.01 | Xinhuan | duckdodgers: look in the options, there's "anchors" for it |
| 20:45.14 | Xinhuan | show the anchors and you can drag it, then hide it |
| 20:45.15 | duckdodgers | nm |
| 20:45.25 | duckdodgers | yeah just found it jeeeze :p |
| 20:45.27 | duckdodgers | i'm slow |
| 20:46.01 | Xinhuan | p.s. exiting to desktop via alt-f4 does write the local cache (as well as savedvars) |
| 20:46.16 | Ozguli | mm |
| 20:46.21 | Matsy | Using tskill doesn't. |
| 20:46.23 | Matsy | ;( |
| 20:46.24 | Ozguli | just seems like the server doesn't show me those |
| 20:46.35 | Xinhuan | maybe nobody on the server has that item |
| 20:46.46 | Ozguli | hah lol :P |
| 20:46.49 | Xinhuan | or nobody has actually entered dire maul east since reboot, killed the boss, for that item to drop |
| 20:47.16 | Ozguli | I still could quary for some epic azeroth patterns |
| 20:47.25 | Xinhuan | yeah some guildbank probably has it |
| 20:47.35 | Xinhuan | or they are on the AH |
| 20:47.40 | Xinhuan | which will mean they are loaded |
| 20:48.04 | Speeddymon | what is the current maximum item level? |
| 20:48.18 | Xinhuan | 155 - BT/Hyjal trash drop rings |
| 20:48.24 | Xinhuan | illidan only drops ilvl 151 |
| 20:48.24 | Speeddymon | kk thx |
| 20:48.40 | *** join/#wowace Paradox_ (n=Paradox@spc1-brmb4-0-0-cust10.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 20:48.41 | Xinhuan | for some reason, those rings from trash are 155 |
| 20:48.44 | Xinhuan | but only those rings |
| 20:49.02 | backbone87 | no chance to get a faster substitution function, my first approach was over 50% slower |
| 20:49.03 | Xinhuan | other drops are 141, T6 are 148 |
| 20:49.14 | Xinhuan | what are you doing backbone87? |
| 20:49.15 | duckdodgers | ace mods kick ass |
| 20:49.27 | Xinhuan | you could pastey and we could see if its optimizable |
| 20:49.27 | duckdodgers | that update is pretty f'ing sweet too |
| 20:49.34 | duckdodgers | *updater |
| 20:49.57 | backbone87 | i try to "savely" concat strings, so they can be splitted to the original |
| 20:50.40 | backbone87 | so you need a escaped delimiter |
| 20:50.54 | Xinhuan | there are wow functions that can do that for you |
| 20:51.00 | Xinhuan | blizzard added them for convenience |
| 20:51.14 | backbone87 | yeah but they dont make a save concat? |
| 20:51.26 | Xinhuan | it can |
| 20:52.15 | backbone87 | for example strjoin("/", "some", "string/haha") will splitt into "some" "string" "haha" or not? |
| 20:52.59 | Xinhuan | well don't use "/" if some of the strings you are joining up can contain "/" |
| 20:53.03 | duckdodgers | thx for your help guys |
| 20:53.18 | Xinhuan | you can use "|" or "\" for eg |
| 20:53.38 | Xinhuan | or replace "/" with "\000" for eg for ascii char 0 |
| 20:53.45 | backbone87 | i want that every byte (except \000 ofc) it possible |
| 20:53.47 | Xinhuan | or "\t" for a tab char |
| 20:54.00 | Xinhuan | strjoin("\000", "some", "string/haha") works just fine |
| 20:54.27 | Ozguli | no, I'm rather sure my server doesn't have this stuff |
| 20:54.33 | backbone87 | \000 is not possilbe because the underlying language is c, which use \000 terminated strings |
| 20:55.02 | Xinhuan | what are you concantenating? |
| 20:55.19 | backbone87 | so if you have: local string = "a string with \000 ends early" print(string) |
| 20:55.30 | *** join/#wowace Scyth (n=ScythXII@fl-71-54-232-9.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 20:55.30 | backbone87 | it will results in: "a string with " |
| 20:55.44 | Xinhuan | lua> local string = "a string with \000 ends early" print(string) |
| 20:55.44 | cladbot | Xinhuan: a string with |
| 20:55.55 | backbone87 | you see |
| 20:56.09 | *** join/#wowace Paradox__ (n=Paradox@spc1-brmb4-0-0-cust10.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 20:56.10 | Xinhuan | well what exactly is your "safe concat"? |
| 20:56.43 | backbone87 | i cant a alternative comm method because i dont like rock or ace comm -.- |
| 20:57.04 | Xinhuan | have you looked inside rockcomm or acecomm code to see how they do it? |
| 20:57.11 | backbone87 | yeah |
| 20:57.13 | Xinhuan | they have the same issue |
| 20:57.18 | backbone87 | i have it running |
| 20:57.28 | Xinhuan | p.s. don't reinvent the wheel |
| 20:57.29 | *** join/#wowace genetik-_ (i=genetik@nayuki.caffeine.nu) |
| 20:57.47 | backbone87 | 100000 5-piece concats in a sec |
| 20:58.03 | backbone87 | but i use gsub |
| 20:58.36 | backbone87 | for string.find you have a option to do a plain search which makes it around 10% faster or so |
| 20:59.01 | backbone87 | i thought there are some kind of this option for replacing functions |
| 21:00.06 | *** join/#wowace [KzM]Fatalis (i=fatalisd@24-207-251-247.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 21:00.35 | Xinhuan | well. i really think there isn't a need to rewrite rockcomm or acecomm. when ace3 comes out, my loaded addons will have acecomm-2.0, rockcomm AND acecomm-3.0 |
| 21:00.51 | Xinhuan | so its already pretty messy on the communication scene |
| 21:01.57 | Xinhuan | remember that ADDON messages are received by anything registered for them |
| 21:02.18 | Xinhuan | so a addon message that is meant for rockcomm to receive is received by both ace2 and rock |
| 21:02.28 | *** join/#wowace Tuller (n=chatzill@c-76-27-166-119.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 21:02.33 | Xinhuan | but only rock forwards it to the addon that its registered for with that prefix |
| 21:02.54 | Xinhuan | so more listeners = bad |
| 21:03.14 | backbone87 | what i dont like at those frameworks (the whole ace and rock) is the error handling and debugging options, it makes the good parts very slow, to make sure every dummy can handle with the frameworks |
| 21:03.42 | Xinhuan | check out ace3's comm them, i think you can ask nevcairiel for details |
| 21:03.45 | Xinhuan | then* |
| 21:04.32 | backbone87 | my own comm function is almost done ^^ |
| 21:05.00 | *** join/#wowace Neebler (n=BuM@adsl-69-228-116-142.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:05.07 | *** join/#wowace Bibi` (n=Boubouil@AVelizy-151-1-28-143.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:05.18 | CIA-7 | 03funkydude * r53813 10BigWigs/ (10 files in 7 dirs): BigWigs: Tweak various modules, needs localization. |
| 21:05.18 | kenlyric | I just used the cyclone spell in my nano... too much wow. |
| 21:06.37 | backbone87 | a big deal on the performance is that pcall stuff to make sure that unwanted messages with same signature are missdeserialized |
| 21:07.24 | backbone87 | the deserialize function of rock is 100% slower if you use a pcall -.- |
| 21:07.40 | Shirik | pcall is slow period |
| 21:07.43 | Shirik | it doesn't matter what you're using it on |
| 21:07.50 | Diao | o: |
| 21:08.42 | backbone87 | yeah but it was an example of the huge impact |
| 21:09.32 | Xinhuan | well its communication stuff - how much data do you think you are going to deserialize in a 2 hour game session? |
| 21:09.49 | backbone87 | depends on the situation |
| 21:09.49 | Xinhuan | it would be interesting if acecomm added something to add up the bytes received |
| 21:09.55 | Xinhuan | and show us some stats |
| 21:10.04 | Shirik | uh |
| 21:10.09 | Shirik | why do you need pcall to deserialize? |
| 21:10.12 | backbone87 | in a 2 hour raid with omen and grid and so on... |
| 21:10.28 | Shirik | I don't use rock/ace so I don't know, but my deserialization function has no problems |
| 21:10.32 | Shirik | even with bad packets transmitted |
| 21:10.40 | Xinhuan | well i don't see omen or grid etc switching away from acecomm soon |
| 21:11.19 | backbone87 | it depends on the format shirik |
| 21:11.34 | Shirik | what do you mean "it depends on the format" ? |
| 21:11.34 | backbone87 | if you want to put as much data per message through |
| 21:12.07 | backbone87 | if you want to send 900 byte message with a 50 prefix |
| 21:12.24 | Shirik | then you're going to have to split it into multiple messages |
| 21:12.26 | backbone87 | you need to splitt it into at least 4 chunks |
| 21:12.41 | Shirik | true |
| 21:12.45 | Shirik | and I have no problem with that |
| 21:12.47 | Xinhuan | so....? |
| 21:12.57 | backbone87 | but if you want to "safe" identify the messages you need at least 5 chunks |
| 21:13.06 | Shirik | that's not true |
| 21:13.28 | Shirik | you should not need to have a 50 byte header on every piece |
| 21:13.35 | backbone87 | how do you send the second chunk? |
| 21:13.38 | Shirik | you should need maybe 4 bytes assuming worst-case scenario |
| 21:13.55 | Shirik | it's fairly simple |
| 21:14.11 | Shirik | I mimicked the way TCP packets are sent |
| 21:14.22 | Shirik | you put a sequence number at the start of every chunk |
| 21:14.28 | Shirik | build them together upon reception |
| 21:14.35 | Shirik | and then when you get the end flag, you submit it to the application |
| 21:14.36 | backbone87 | shirik and that it is, if you want to use a 4 bytes, what is if you got another message from someone else with some fuckin addon that uses THAT 4 bytes as prefix? |
| 21:14.45 | Shirik | it won't. |
| 21:14.56 | Shirik | that's what the 6 character application prefix is for |
| 21:14.57 | nevcairiel | we use 2 bytes on our comm, well actually, we store those 2 bytes in the prefix, and only if they are needed |
| 21:15.02 | nevcairiel | multi-part messages |
| 21:15.20 | dashkal | To whomever wrote the Ace2 Tutorial (WelcomeHome)... THANK YOU |
| 21:15.24 | backbone87 | i have the same system |
| 21:15.30 | Xinhuan | it won't because acecomm uses its own hashed prefix system or something - memoized prefix |
| 21:15.52 | Shirik | backbone87: I think you aren't thinking this through |
| 21:15.58 | Shirik | there is a 6 character prefix on every message for a reason |
| 21:16.00 | Shirik | so addons don't conflict |
| 21:16.13 | Shirik | why reinvent the wheel |
| 21:16.30 | backbone87 | its the only way shirik for good performance |
| 21:16.33 | Xinhuan | so why is pcall needed? |
| 21:16.35 | Shirik | are you insane? |
| 21:16.46 | Shirik | ok |
| 21:16.52 | Shirik | I'll take a step back and believe you for a second |
| 21:16.59 | Shirik | Now explain to me how you are intending to improve performance |
| 21:17.48 | backbone87 | at this end you cant optimize |
| 21:18.05 | backbone87 | only do it in another way |
| 21:18.11 | Shirik | you aren't answering the question |
| 21:18.12 | Shirik | you're going around it |
| 21:18.35 | Shirik | Here, this is what I use in Conspiracy. It works perfectly fine and has no pcall: http://wowi.pastey.net/76532 |
| 21:18.42 | backbone87 | he i say that the delivery system is good |
| 21:18.44 | Shirik | Now tell me what you think could be improved by forcing a 50 byte prefix |
| 21:19.02 | Shirik | (Take note of the _Encode and _Decode functions) |
| 21:19.10 | backbone87 | it was an example |
| 21:20.00 | Shirik | My point is you should only need (1) a single sequence number, and (2) no pcall |
| 21:20.06 | Shirik | and safely be able to pull all messages together |
| 21:21.09 | Xinhuan | the sequence number shouldn't even really be needed - the messages always arrive in-order in wow and never out of order |
| 21:21.28 | Shirik | not really in my system |
| 21:21.30 | Shirik | so I needed it |
| 21:21.33 | Xinhuan | ah |
| 21:21.39 | Shirik | the scheduling algorithm gets a little strange sometimes :) |
| 21:21.48 | Shirik | It doesn't send all the packets immediately, etc. |
| 21:22.06 | Shirik | but yes, that's true |
| 21:22.15 | Xinhuan | wasn't aware you have a scheduling system! |
| 21:22.30 | Shirik | Conspiracy has a lot of interesting tools :) |
| 21:22.33 | *** join/#wowace Paradox (n=Paradox@spc1-brmb4-0-0-cust10.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 21:23.06 | Kalroth | It's a conspiracy! |
| 21:24.02 | dashkal | I'm having a bit of a design problem. Some of you may remember me from awhile back under the name bshelden with an idea for a peer to peer forum system. The problem I'm having in my design is one of trust. How to ensure trust that a message was posted by the person the message claims it was posted by. |
| 21:24.08 | *** join/#wowace what-K (i=v0dKa@xdsl-87-78-76-78.netcologne.de) |
| 21:24.15 | what-K | hi all |
| 21:24.27 | Shirik | um dashkal, is this some web application? |
| 21:24.30 | backbone87 | Shirik: what i mean: there should be a way that you dont need pcall, but actually rock uses it and i think ace2comm too |
| 21:24.42 | Shirik | backbone87: That's exactly what I was saying, I don't use it |
| 21:24.43 | dashkal | Nope, I'm designing a forum system to be run _inside_ of warcraft |
| 21:24.48 | what-K | i look for an addon that show me a zimestamp at the chat can someone help me ? |
| 21:24.48 | Shirik | dashkal: I see |
| 21:25.12 | Shirik | dashkal: Okay, can't you just check the sender of the message? |
| 21:25.17 | Shirik | oh I think I see the issue |
| 21:25.23 | dashkal | Offline posting |
| 21:25.25 | Shirik | um, you want a real complex solution? |
| 21:25.28 | Shirik | yeah, I just realized that |
| 21:25.38 | Shirik | You could use SSL signatures :D |
| 21:25.48 | Xinhuan | lol ssl sigs |
| 21:25.51 | dashkal | That is one thing I've considered, but implementing RSA un LUA scares me |
| 21:25.53 | Shirik | there is a library for WoW to do such |
| 21:25.58 | dashkal | serious? |
| 21:25.58 | Kalroth | PGP4WOW |
| 21:26.04 | dashkal | *blink* I love you all |
| 21:26.08 | Shirik | I'm not kidding, I used it for a patch distribution system in Conspiracy |
| 21:26.09 | what-K | Shirik can u help me ? |
| 21:26.23 | Shirik | sign all patches and then distribute them, validate signature to ensure it's real code |
| 21:26.27 | Shirik | and not someone trying to jack your epix |
| 21:26.48 | Xinhuan | heh |
| 21:26.50 | dashkal | Exactly what I needed. I was thinking of md5 sigs and a web of trust, but this is _much_ better |
| 21:27.05 | Xinhuan | why do you need a forum system _inside wow_ |
| 21:27.16 | Xinhuan | whats wrong with a forum outside wow? |
| 21:27.19 | Shirik | Prism library: http://www.curse.com/downloads/details/8018/ |
| 21:27.21 | dashkal | Nobody uses it |
| 21:27.24 | Shirik | Take note, I used 2048 bit signatures |
| 21:27.25 | Shirik | but |
| 21:27.29 | Shirik | it takes about 10 minutes to sign that |
| 21:27.35 | Shirik | I recommend a much smaller signature |
| 21:27.43 | Xinhuan | well perhaps you should encourage forum usage - make it interesting to be read |
| 21:27.46 | Xinhuan | post stuff daily |
| 21:28.00 | dashkal | I don't need to defeat crypto experts, just mornons hacking their savedVariables to forge messages from the guild leader |
| 21:28.07 | *** part/#wowace Someone (n=jegerher@ti131310a340-3829.bb.online.no) |
| 21:28.18 | Shirik | only reason I opted for 2048 bit is because it's a bit of a security issue, and I should only need to sign each patch once, only by me |
| 21:28.21 | dashkal | I have three uses for the backend I'm designing: Forums, Crafting Lists, Raid signups |
| 21:28.56 | what-K | Shirikgaves an ace addon tho show only the timestamp at the chat ? |
| 21:28.56 | Xinhuan | o_O wow is serious business |
| 21:29.03 | Shirik | what-K: Prat |
| 21:29.15 | Shirik | it does a lot more than that though, but you can turn it off |
| 21:29.35 | Xinhuan | prat probably takes up some 1-2 mb more memory than what he's asking for |
| 21:29.39 | dashkal | mmm, taking things too literally. so where is this mod? |
| 21:29.39 | what-K | thx iss it server time or local ? |
| 21:29.40 | Shirik | Xinhuan: People laughed at me when I said I was using 2048 bit signatures, but all it takes is one person to say "wtf where my epix went" and then I get beat up forever |
| 21:29.44 | Shirik | what-K: local |
| 21:30.13 | what-K | gaves a addon with server time ? |
| 21:30.16 | Shirik | Xinhuan: I totally agree, but I don't have a better solution for you |
| 21:30.26 | Shirik | s/you/him/ |
| 21:30.32 | Xinhuan | there is a very old addon called JoChatTimeStamp |
| 21:30.33 | Tornhoof | i started to write a secure communication lib for some poker addon a long time ago |
| 21:30.35 | Xinhuan | it could have been updated |
| 21:30.38 | Xinhuan | go look for it |
| 21:30.48 | *** join/#wowace masanbol (n=masanbol@c-98-198-102-241.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 21:30.53 | Xinhuan | or any addon with the name ChatTimeStamp on it |
| 21:31.08 | Tornhoof | just do some basic pubkey/privkey crypto stuff and it will be hard to forge that, considering that you can not do any mim attacks |
| 21:31.12 | Tornhoof | pre share the pubkey |
| 21:31.14 | Tornhoof | and you're done |
| 21:31.34 | dashkal | Tornhoof: that's the idea. Now I just need the mod so I dont have to code the math myself |
| 21:31.41 | Xinhuan | i personally think a ingame forum addon is a bit of an extreme though |
| 21:31.48 | Shirik | dashkal: I helped him work on that for weeks |
| 21:31.51 | Shirik | the math was a pain in lua, heh |
| 21:31.59 | Tornhoof | doing rsa in lua isn't that hard |
| 21:32.03 | dashkal | Xinhuan: You may well be right. But its an interesting channenge to make it work |
| 21:32.05 | Shirik | sure it is |
| 21:32.06 | Tornhoof | i think there is even some rsa lua code |
| 21:32.07 | Shirik | the numbers are huge |
| 21:32.12 | Tornhoof | so what? |
| 21:32.15 | Xinhuan | i agree with you, it is a challenge |
| 21:32.18 | Shirik | Lua doesn't like that too much |
| 21:32.38 | Shirik | the real problem was modulo arithmetic on these huge numbers |
| 21:32.45 | backbone87 | Shirik: your encode algo isnt "safe" |
| 21:32.51 | Shirik | why isn't it "safe" ? |
| 21:32.55 | Xinhuan | but when does playing a game require something like that, is it really a game anymore? :) |
| 21:32.56 | *** join/#wowace RaydenUni (n=bozartmp@cpe-74-74-225-9.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 21:33.20 | backbone87 | what happens if i try to send the string "test!]Sstring" |
| 21:33.23 | dashkal | *snickers* I bring that up every time the guild starts making noise to become serious |
| 21:33.29 | Shirik | backbone87: That's not the encode algorithm |
| 21:33.30 | Shirik | that's the decode one |
| 21:33.38 | Shirik | oh no I see what you are saying |
| 21:33.39 | Shirik | and I'm aware of that problem |
| 21:33.49 | Shirik | however for the time being I've taken the ostrich algorithm |
| 21:34.02 | Tornhoof | you just need a bignum implementation for lua |
| 21:34.02 | Xinhuan | haha |
| 21:34.15 | backbone87 | and you should use tables as string buffers instead of concat every step |
| 21:34.21 | Shirik | hell no |
| 21:34.31 | Shirik | tables eat up a ton of memory |
| 21:34.46 | Xinhuan | incremental concats eat up more ;p |
| 21:34.48 | backbone87 | yeah and dont using string buffers uses tons of cpu time |
| 21:35.06 | backbone87 | and memory too |
| 21:35.07 | Shirik | but anyway I'm aware of that issue, I just haven't gotten around to fixing it. Conspiracy isn't released yet, so that's not on the top of my priority list |
| 21:35.22 | Shirik | There's no way you could avoid concatenating at some point |
| 21:35.31 | Tornhoof | as for the bignum lib |
| 21:35.34 | Tornhoof | dashkal |
| 21:35.35 | Tornhoof | Ich kann nur die Krieger (und damit den Raid) bemitleiden, die Pauldrons of Abyssal Fury genommen haben, welches einfach nur ein minimales Upgrade zu T5 ist. Wenn ich mir die Schultern so angucke würde ich fast sagen sie sind ein Down/Sidegrade. |
| 21:35.37 | Tornhoof | eh |
| 21:35.38 | backbone87 | it is one of the major problems of digital communication :/ |
| 21:35.40 | Tornhoof | wrong paste |
| 21:35.47 | Tornhoof | http://oss.digirati.com.br/luabignum/BigNum.zip |
| 21:35.49 | Tornhoof | that one |
| 21:35.54 | Shirik | Put simply, I am not going to use a table |
| 21:35.59 | Shirik | I'm not going to generate that garbage |
| 21:36.15 | *** join/#wowace dylanm (n=dylanmor@c-69-241-235-52.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 21:36.15 | Xinhuan | incremental concats generates just as much string garbage |
| 21:36.16 | backbone87 | it is less garbage then iterated concat |
| 21:36.23 | Shirik | but it's string garbage |
| 21:36.24 | dashkal | Tornhoof: that's the large numbers library so I can code RSA? |
| 21:36.36 | Xinhuan | string garbage is still garbage, no different from tables |
| 21:36.36 | Shirik | that's not an issue when you're looking at what exactly is being concatenated |
| 21:36.40 | Shirik | because many of the strings are identical |
| 21:36.47 | Tornhoof | that's a large number library yes |
| 21:36.52 | backbone87 | and its faster, in every lua tutorial they recommend tables as string buffers |
| 21:36.53 | Tornhoof | and you should be able to code rsa with that |
| 21:36.53 | Shirik | even if tables are identical, they don't get merged together |
| 21:37.02 | Tornhoof | you might need to add some stuff |
| 21:37.04 | Xinhuan | uh its the concanted result that's eating memory |
| 21:37.04 | Shirik | strings, on the other hand, are interned |
| 21:37.14 | Shirik | right, but the old values remain resident |
| 21:37.16 | Tornhoof | but all the large mult stuff and division stuff is integrated |
| 21:37.17 | dashkal | Someone suggested that the crypto has been done already. As a library or only in experimental code? |
| 21:37.37 | Shirik | and even if the result ate memory, that's irrelevant |
| 21:37.44 | Tornhoof | there are several symmetric crypto algos |
| 21:37.45 | Shirik | because you'll have to make it into that final result anyway |
| 21:37.48 | Shirik | you aren't going to avoid that |
| 21:37.52 | Tornhoof | but no pubkey crypto in lua i think |
| 21:37.55 | Shirik | SendAddonMessage does not support transmission by table |
| 21:38.06 | backbone87 | oO? |
| 21:38.08 | Tornhoof | you'll need a primality test |
| 21:38.17 | Shirik | SendAddonMessage takes a string, not a table |
| 21:38.31 | dashkal | *nods* Gotta be public key. I don't want to encrypt, just sign. (Warcraft is not a private envrionment, so I'm not concerned with encrypting) |
| 21:38.33 | Shirik | so you aren't going to avoid that final result, just defer it |
| 21:38.34 | Tornhoof | this you will have to code for certain |
| 21:38.42 | *** mode/#wowace [+o MoonWolf] by ChanServ |
| 21:38.48 | Tornhoof | but a cheap primality test shouldn't be hard |
| 21:38.54 | Tornhoof | while loop stuff |
| 21:39.10 | dashkal | hard, no, but slow, yes. Could take a good while for initial key generation |
| 21:39.25 | Xinhuan | lol coroutines to the rescue |
| 21:39.26 | dashkal | Mind you, keysizes around the 1024 bit range would be fine. I don't need to defeat a determined opponent |
| 21:39.46 | Tornhoof | you won't need that more than once imho |
| 21:39.49 | Shirik | dashkal: I would hope a 1024 bit key defeats a determined opponent |
| 21:39.50 | Tornhoof | once for every leader |
| 21:40.04 | *** join/#wowace gnor (n=jaydee@cpe-76-170-71-236.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 21:40.18 | *** join/#wowace Orionshock (n=chatzill@ip68-96-52-110.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:40.22 | dashkal | I might have my algorithms confused, but I thought 1024 was now too low thanks to a new factoring algorithm |
| 21:40.24 | Tornhoof | and primality testing isn't that slow either if you're happy with 99.8...% certainty |
| 21:40.29 | Tornhoof | no |
| 21:40.30 | Kalroth | I'd say that simple obfuscation would be enough to secure your forum data. It is guild only, correct? |
| 21:40.37 | Tornhoof | records are at 720bit or something |
| 21:40.47 | Tornhoof | 1024 is secure enough for your usage |
| 21:40.56 | *** join/#wowace gnor (n=jaydee@cpe-76-170-71-236.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 21:40.58 | Shirik | I honestly think 512 or lower is secure for him :P |
| 21:40.59 | dashkal | I do have an alternative to public key crypto for trust: md5 and the web of trust model |
| 21:41.04 | Tornhoof | it's just not secure enough for the next 5-10 years for a determined user |
| 21:41.07 | Shirik | if he's not worried about serious people |
| 21:41.13 | dashkal | hell, all I need is a month |
| 21:41.20 | Shirik | I thought you were talking like days |
| 21:41.20 | Shirik | heh |
| 21:41.21 | dashkal | after that messages will age off the system |
| 21:41.22 | Xinhuan | the simplest solution is still to use an external forum - and tell your members to read it and sign - its about the same as telling "install omen or gkick" and "read forum or gkick" |
| 21:41.35 | *** join/#wowace aestil (n=holycall@cpe-72-129-96-142.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 21:41.53 | Tornhoof | dashkal yes technically this works too, but a pubkey system is easier for guild wide stuff |
| 21:42.22 | dashkal | My first implementation will probably be md5 and all messages are "untrusted" until you see the poster online for direct confirmation |
| 21:42.22 | Xinhuan | remember also that an ingame forum will eventually accumulate a lot of text data |
| 21:42.31 | dashkal | The crypto bit will be later |
| 21:42.37 | Shirik | dashkal: That's GEM's philosophy |
| 21:42.46 | Shirik | messages are marked "untrusted" until it is confirmed with the person online |
| 21:42.46 | Xinhuan | unless you're planning to prune posts say over a month old |
| 21:42.56 | dashkal | Xinhuan: THat is my plan, yes |
| 21:43.11 | Tornhoof | the problem i see is that you'll need to have one online for the forum to work |
| 21:43.14 | Xinhuan | there is still the possibility of spam |
| 21:43.16 | Tornhoof | you could share data |
| 21:43.18 | dashkal | I don't want 20 meg forum databases |
| 21:43.18 | Tornhoof | but still |
| 21:43.24 | Tornhoof | you'll need someone online to sync |
| 21:43.28 | Xinhuan | and you want to handle that |
| 21:43.37 | Xinhuan | plus ability to edit posts that are sent |
| 21:43.41 | Tornhoof | i stopped thinking about that when i wrote my newsbot thingie |
| 21:43.43 | Xinhuan | or delete them |
| 21:43.56 | dashkal | The peer to peer distributed storage bit is going to be the most fun to design. |
| 21:44.22 | Tornhoof | yes about as much fun as an hangover ;) |
| 21:44.50 | dashkal | I like challenges like this. heh.\ |
| 21:45.03 | dashkal | My inspiration is freenet/frost, without all that anonymity |
| 21:45.04 | Shirik | dashkal: It's not easy, but it's been done before so obviously possible |
| 21:45.05 | Xinhuan | whats your estimated eta? heh |
| 21:45.19 | dashkal | Estimating a full year |
| 21:45.24 | Xinhuan | :o |
| 21:45.32 | Tornhoof | add some text compression algo to |
| 21:45.33 | dashkal | I have a full time development job so not gonna happen quickly |
| 21:45.35 | Tornhoof | lrw or something |
| 21:45.38 | Xinhuan | would you still be playing wow then? :) |
| 21:45.44 | Xinhuan | starcraft 2 coming out! |
| 21:45.44 | Shirik | dashkal: Where do you work? |
| 21:45.45 | *** join/#wowace mitchnull (n=mitchnul@dsl217-197-187-250.pool.tvnet.hu) |
| 21:45.56 | Shirik | or what do you do? |
| 21:46.05 | dashkal | I write Java code. |
| 21:46.08 | Shirik | eew |
| 21:46.14 | Shirik | heh, sorry I'm biased |
| 21:46.25 | dashkal | *snickers* What's your preferred language? |
| 21:46.26 | Shirik | I work on real-time embedded systems so Java isn't entirely practical |
| 21:46.31 | dashkal | ahh, java would be bad |
| 21:46.43 | Shirik | Ada, C, C++ are my typical languages if I'm not doing assembly work |
| 21:46.46 | dashkal | I like java. C++ without memory management |
| 21:46.50 | Shirik | but a lot of it is just assembly |
| 21:46.53 | Tornhoof | no |
| 21:47.00 | Tornhoof | c# is c++ without memory management |
| 21:47.08 | Tornhoof | more or less |
| 21:47.09 | dashkal | I don't actually know c# so I cannot comment |
| 21:47.17 | Neebler | http://fallenangel.furtopia.org/JUNK/total-county.gif ground breaking research |
| 21:47.41 | Shirik | huh |
| 21:47.44 | Shirik | I grew up in the northeast |
| 21:47.47 | Shirik | and I call it Coke generally |
| 21:47.53 | dashkal | The other reason for the year ETA is, well, I've written exactly _one_ ace mod now.... the WelcomeHome tutorial |
| 21:48.08 | dashkal | I have a long way to go before any code will be written for this thing |
| 21:48.32 | Shirik | dashkal: Don't do it! |
| 21:48.34 | Shirik | Ace is evil! |
| 21:48.41 | dashkal | rofl |
| 21:48.53 | Shirik | nah I don't really have anything against Ace |
| 21:48.56 | dashkal | I haven't looked at rock yet. I'll make that kind of decision after the main design is finished |
| 21:49.04 | Shirik | I just prefer not to use it |
| 21:49.06 | kenlyric | I wonder what the "other" is. |
| 21:49.19 | Shirik | pepsi? |
| 21:49.32 | dashkal | I'll use what libraries make my life easier and ignore the ones that make things more difficult |
| 21:49.38 | Neebler | sugar water! |
| 21:49.47 | Shirik | dashkal: Be careful with that philosophy |
| 21:50.00 | Tuller | MUFFINS! |
| 21:50.02 | Shirik | Lua is a radically different language than Java, and libraries can be... well... bad |
| 21:50.06 | kenlyric | i like that knife of Coke that drives itself deep into Indiana. |
| 21:50.12 | Shirik | not saying they shouldn't be used, obviously that's stupid |
| 21:50.16 | dashkal | The philosophy is to use what works. I'm a pragmatist that way |
| 21:50.21 | kenlyric | that's essentially a map of north/south division. |
| 21:50.22 | Shirik | but if you're writing a five line program and embedding a library |
| 21:50.28 | Shirik | that's just plain stupid |
| 21:50.31 | dashkal | *snickers* agreede |
| 21:50.32 | Orionshock | lol |
| 21:50.37 | Shirik | I've seen it done |
| 21:50.39 | kenlyric | you could overlay that with KKK activity and not be too far off. |
| 21:50.40 | Orionshock | keep to the wiki idea about ace |
| 21:50.44 | dashkal | Somehow I think the forums won't be 5 lines |
| 21:50.45 | Tuller | many many many times |
| 21:50.53 | Shirik | I've also seen people take non-ace addons, stick in the Ace library, and re-release it without changing a line of code |
| 21:50.55 | Shirik | that's also stupid |
| 21:51.05 | Tuller | many many many times |
| 21:51.06 | dashkal | *blink* now that is just outright stupid |
| 21:51.21 | Orionshock | well was it better than before - if no, then yes stupid |
| 21:51.33 | Shirik | how could it possibly be better |
| 21:51.59 | Shirik | if none of the code changed it wasn't even using it |
| 21:51.59 | *** join/#wowace Vilkku (n=Vilkku@dsl-83.148.242-78-dynip.ssp.fi) |
| 21:52.09 | Orionshock | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:52.17 | dashkal | No, I'll use ace if it makes my life easier. Not if it doesn't. I'll look at rock and see if ckknight has a good idea. I'll poke around a bit. But there's so much design work to do yet that it isn't a decision worth making right now |
| 21:52.34 | Shirik | read the wiki about ace is a good idea |
| 21:52.36 | kenlyric | or, sometimes they take non-ace addons and stick them in the the svn without even adding the ace library... |
| 21:52.39 | *** join/#wowace [1]gnorlish (n=jaydee@cpe-76-170-71-236.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 21:52.48 | Shirik | this page: http://wowace.com/wiki/Make_it_Ace%27d |
| 21:52.50 | dashkal | Choosing a library before the requirements are gathered... poor development process no matter what envrionment |
| 21:53.06 | kenlyric | *s |
| 21:53.17 | *** join/#wowace Paradox (n=Paradox@spc1-brmb4-0-0-cust10.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 21:53.44 | dashkal | And considering the sheer scope of what I'm planning... I had better do this right or 'll just end up with another dead-end |
| 21:54.03 | what-K | Shirikcan u say me how can i disable the channel akas ? |
| 21:54.37 | Shirik | on your minimap you should see a prat button |
| 21:54.39 | dashkal | So far, though, I'm liking ace2 well enough. Just defining functions on my master mod object to catch events keeps things simple to write. I like any framework that reduces boilerplate code |
| 21:54.41 | Shirik | all the options are right there |
| 21:55.24 | Shirik | if you want, scroll down to "All modules" and turn off everything except timestamps |
| 21:55.24 | what-K | yes |
| 21:55.24 | what-K | but i dont know which iss the option |
| 21:55.25 | what-K | maybe u know it |
| 21:55.33 | Orionshock | dashkal: if it's going to be a year before release, look at Ace3 then... |
| 21:55.35 | Shirik | not entirely sure what you're talking about |
| 21:55.43 | Orionshock | tbh IT IS leaner than 2 |
| 21:55.57 | dashkal | Orionshock: good idea. I'll poke at that when I get closer to coding time |
| 21:56.15 | Shirik | omg, a developer that actually plans before he codes |
| 21:56.16 | what-K | there stands 22:44:00 [Trade] Bla: Sell blub |
| 21:56.20 | Shirik | and here I was thinking I was the only one |
| 21:56.27 | dashkal | In the mean time, I need to get better at writing wow code in general. So my immediate goal is to write myself a little mod that (if we all have it) lets me see the experience gains of party members |
| 21:56.32 | kenlyric | he'll never finish. |
| 21:56.33 | NightHawkTheSane | Shirik: pfft. designing is for losers. :P |
| 21:56.36 | Tuller | I sometimes draw pictures before I code, does that count? :) |
| 21:56.42 | Shirik | I drew up a huge UML diagram the other day :D |
| 21:56.45 | Shirik | I was pretty proud of myself |
| 21:56.53 | Shirik | only reason was because I was confusing myself with all the abstraction I needed to do |
| 21:56.56 | NightHawkTheSane | i'm proud that i remember what UML is. |
| 21:56.59 | kenlyric | mods need to be written from scratch in three hours and abandoned two weeks later. |
| 21:57.08 | dashkal | kenlyric: rofl |
| 21:57.09 | what-K | normaly there stands 22:55:00 [2.Handelschannel] bla: sell blub |
| 21:57.09 | kenlyric | that's where the ACTION is. |
| 21:57.23 | kenlyric | dashkal: worked for pitbull! |
| 21:57.30 | kenlyric | I mean, what aura bug? |
| 21:57.38 | NightHawkTheSane | kenlyric: what profile bug? |
| 21:57.39 | Shirik | what-K: Try ChannelNames |
| 21:57.44 | NightHawkTheSane | ;) |
| 21:58.07 | Shirik | what-K: is blub a real item? |
| 21:58.18 | what-K | no :D |
| 21:58.23 | what-K | aber it wasnt name |
| 21:58.55 | dashkal | I did notice one thing in doing all of this: My god the default UI is ugly to me now. (I've shut of the 100 or so mods I normall use) |
| 21:59.04 | what-K | thats is it not Shirik |
| 21:59.06 | Shirik | dashkal: I have to give Java one piece of credit actually |
| 21:59.17 | dashkal | Shirik: oh? |
| 21:59.24 | Shirik | I'm currently writing code in C++ that has to be able to act as a server |
| 21:59.28 | Shirik | It has to work on all platforms |
| 21:59.29 | kenlyric | NightHawkTheSane: I don't use auras or profiles other than default, so I mostly have no idea except what other people complain about. |
| 21:59.42 | Shirik | And it is a (pardon my french) fucking pain in the neck to get it to work with all the different OSes |
| 21:59.48 | dashkal | Ahh, that's the one domain where Java really does rule for a reason |
| 22:00.15 | NightHawkTheSane | kenlyric: i've not actually experienced any aura issues, so i'm not entirely sure what's up there either. But profiles are pretty borked. although that's likely a rock issue, not strictly pitbull |
| 22:00.33 | Shirik | what-K: perhaps ask someone else in the channel |
| 22:00.35 | Shirik | I don't really use prat much |
| 22:00.44 | what-K | ok but thx |
| 22:01.06 | NightHawkTheSane | bleh, recompiling cpan is taking forever. why in the world did i think this would be a good idea |
| 22:01.34 | *** join/#wowace masanbol (n=masanbol@c-98-198-102-241.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 22:02.34 | Shirik | lua> function foo() foo() end foo() |
| 22:02.34 | cladbot | Shirik: sandbox.lua:153: stack overflow |
| 22:02.40 | Shirik | lua> function foo() return foo() end foo() |
| 22:02.45 | cladbot | Shirik: sandbox.lua:154: maximum execution time (5s) exceeded |
| 22:02.48 | Shirik | hm |
| 22:02.56 | Shirik | I wonder if they could do some further optimizations on tailcalls |
| 22:03.06 | Shirik | I'm going to play with that some when I get some free time |
| 22:03.06 | dashkal | there's an lua bot in here? O.o |
| 22:03.25 | Paradox | holy crap lots of addons are broke in the last update :/ |
| 22:03.33 | ulic | if you use it alot, it's polite to message it though :) |
| 22:03.38 | Shirik | yes |
| 22:03.46 | NightHawkTheSane | or join #lua-bot |
| 22:03.51 | *** join/#wowace blay (i=KevFlow@35.136.243.24.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 22:03.52 | Shirik | in general you should only use it in public if you're trying to show someone something :) |
| 22:04.12 | dashkal | oh no worries there. Just cool that it's available |
| 22:04.19 | dashkal | most of the time I just use /script |
| 22:04.20 | *** join/#wowace SH|Fumler (n=Fumler@ti211110a081-9771.bb.online.no) |
| 22:04.24 | dashkal | in wow |
| 22:04.25 | Orionshock | same |
| 22:04.52 | Shirik | the above code wouldn't be very intelligent to run in WoW |
| 22:05.07 | Orionshock | lol sure it would ... |
| 22:05.07 | Paradox | think i'll play something else until tommorow when it's fixed.. |
| 22:05.23 | dashkal | actually, I want to see what happens |
| 22:05.35 | Orionshock | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:05.36 | Orionshock | l |
| 22:05.57 | dashkal | hmm, absolutely nothing it seems |
| 22:06.32 | Orionshock | turn on lua errors |
| 22:06.40 | Orionshock | get bug sack |
| 22:06.50 | dashkal | There we go, it froze me now |
| 22:06.52 | Xinhuan | he probably hung his wow if he ran the last one |
| 22:06.53 | Shirik | dashkal: Are you talking about the hello world example? |
| 22:06.56 | Shirik | oh |
| 22:06.57 | dashkal | I forgot the ; foo at the end |
| 22:07.09 | Shirik | yeah, that second one will infinite loop |
| 22:07.12 | dashkal | helps if I invoke the recursion |
| 22:07.19 | Shirik | the second one should lock up for like a millisecond and then overflow the stack |
| 22:07.55 | dashkal | : /script function foo() return foo() end; foo() -> locked right up |
| 22:08.00 | Orionshock | yep |
| 22:08.01 | Shirik | yup |
| 22:08.07 | Xinhuan | yep |
| 22:08.28 | dashkal | ... tailcalls, I remember now. I only just learned what those were |
| 22:08.41 | Shirik | tailcall is one of the bytecodes in lua |
| 22:08.43 | dashkal | Still, I would have expected warcraft to have like a 5s timeout on scripts |
| 22:08.58 | Shirik | but as far as I can tell, it is only used when you have a "return foo()" |
| 22:09.15 | Shirik | nope |
| 22:09.18 | dashkal | wow, locked it up pretty good. alt-tab and alt-f4 are broken |
| 22:09.20 | Shirik | wow lets youd o whatever |
| 22:09.21 | *** join/#wowace TrashCat (n=champ@71-14-103-098.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 22:09.29 | Shirik | you can crash wow too, etc. It lets Lua run free reign |
| 22:09.46 | dashkal | hmm, dangerous in what should be a properly sandboxed envrionment |
| 22:09.57 | Xinhuan | not exactly dashkal |
| 22:10.01 | dashkal | good thing I have IRC on the laptop *leans over and presses the reset button* |
| 22:10.02 | Shirik | a = coroutine.wrap(a)(a) a(a) |
| 22:10.06 | Shirik | well, it's because of a bug in Lua |
| 22:10.06 | Kalroth | Naw, you have full control over what you install |
| 22:10.09 | Xinhuan | if an addon hangs wow, nobody would use it |
| 22:10.19 | Shirik | the crash is just a bug |
| 22:11.10 | Shirik | my bad, I meant |
| 22:11.14 | Xinhuan | wow hanging shouldn't break alt-tab |
| 22:11.20 | Shirik | a = function(a) coroutine.wrap(a)(a) end a(a) |
| 22:11.28 | Xinhuan | you can always alt-tab out to taskmanager end process it |
| 22:11.38 | Xinhuan | ctrl-alt-del that is |
| 22:11.41 | dashkal | No, it shouldn't have, but it did. The mouse responded but Alt-F4, Alt-Tab, and even Ctrl-Alt-Del wouldn't respond |
| 22:11.49 | Shirik | heh |
| 22:11.52 | Xinhuan | maybe its yourlaptop ;p |
| 22:11.55 | Shirik | then that's just a windows scheduling issue |
| 22:11.58 | dashkal | winxp64 on amd64 |
| 22:12.01 | *** join/#wowace Guest366 (n=Guest@ip70-177-114-89.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 22:12.20 | dashkal | laptop is fine, but all this thing is runnning is firefox/chatzilla. using this for reading and the desktop to code/test |
| 22:13.02 | *** join/#wowace TrashCat (n=champ@71-14-103-098.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 22:13.18 | Kalroth | WoW is a bit funky at times, it's like it sets itself to high priority when it's loading from the MPQ files, so I wouldn't doubt that it breaks the system when locking up |
| 22:13.52 | dashkal | meh. I'm going to have to be very careful with parts of this design. If not, performance will completely destroy the thing |
| 22:14.05 | Shirik | yup |
| 22:14.07 | kenlyric | on my home computer wow pushes the CPU to 100% |
| 22:14.12 | Shirik | this is why I designed the Conspiracy adaptive scheduler |
| 22:14.15 | Ellipsis | ping aestil |
| 22:14.16 | *** join/#wowace TrashCat (n=champ@71-14-103-098.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 22:14.19 | Shirik | because you can't just code for yourself |
| 22:14.21 | kenlyric | not at work, even though they're nearly identical systems. |
| 22:14.24 | Shirik | you have to code for all kinds of different quality computers |
| 22:14.43 | *** part/#wowace trashcat (n=Guest@ip70-177-114-89.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 22:14.44 | Xinhuan | dashkal: i'm going to suggest that you look/think on the practicality of even writing such an addon, and the realistic chances of people using it, before you start |
| 22:15.03 | dashkal | my computer has pretty decent performance, but its bogged down by about 100+ mods (and components... cartographer much?) |
| 22:15.18 | Shirik | yes that's another thing you have to consider |
| 22:15.20 | dashkal | Xinhuan: I have been, and so far the response in my guild (my target audience) has been positive |
| 22:15.21 | Shirik | yours is not the only addon |
| 22:15.24 | Shirik | and you have to share the same environment |
| 22:15.25 | aestil | i'm here Ellipsis |
| 22:15.27 | *** join/#wowace TrashCat (n=champ@71-14-103-098.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 22:15.42 | Ellipsis | aestil: get your fans figured out last night? |
| 22:16.22 | dashkal | The purpose of this is to solve a problem within my guild specifically, and because the problem interests me to solve. I may or may not ever release to the general public. |
| 22:16.37 | aestil | no. |
| 22:16.50 | aestil | cpu and gpu both go over 90C |
| 22:17.14 | Ellipsis | even with the fans manually set to high? |
| 22:17.15 | Shirik | purchase some liquid nitrogen |
| 22:17.33 | aestil | yeah. manually set to high, they only spin about 400 rpm faster than normal. |
| 22:17.37 | dashkal | *blink* reading the localization part of the tutorial. { ["foo"] = true } sets the "foo" key to "foo".. why? |
| 22:17.51 | Ellipsis | aestil: hm..how fast exactly? |
| 22:18.09 | aestil | 4200rpm on their own. around 4600 on high. |
| 22:18.16 | Ellipsis | that should be plenty |
| 22:18.36 | *** join/#wowace Matrix110| (i=Matrix11@pD957CE2E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:18.58 | Ellipsis | if your fans are spinning at >4k RPM and your chips are still hitting 90C under normal load, something is very wrong |
| 22:19.09 | Ellipsis | likely with the heatsink, but possibly a sensor problem |
| 22:19.18 | Shirik | 90C? that's it? |
| 22:19.29 | Shirik | I don't know why people complain about these temperatures really |
| 22:19.32 | Ellipsis | do you have a pentium M or is yours dual core? |
| 22:19.37 | Ellipsis | Shirik: it's causing performance issues for him |
| 22:19.45 | Shirik | then the device was probably poorly made :P |
| 22:19.55 | Ellipsis | the GPU underclocks itself because it triggers a temperature alarm |
| 22:20.00 | Shirik | wtf |
| 22:20.03 | Shirik | they set it that low? |
| 22:20.06 | Shirik | whatever >< |
| 22:20.12 | Ellipsis | 90C isn't terribly low |
| 22:20.20 | Shirik | I have yet to see a transistor that isn't rated for at least 125C |
| 22:20.23 | aestil | pentium M |
| 22:20.24 | Shirik | the ones I work with are 150C |
| 22:20.24 | Orionshock | dashkal: b/c that method is the lazy way :D |
| 22:20.42 | Ellipsis | well, the CPU aestil has (as well as mine) don't trigger til 100C |
| 22:20.46 | aestil | my cpu clocked itself from 2130 to 600 last night. |
| 22:20.53 | Shirik | ow |
| 22:20.56 | Ellipsis | aestil: that's normal if it wasn't under load |
| 22:21.00 | Ellipsis | google speedstep |
| 22:21.02 | aestil | under load. |
| 22:21.05 | aestil | playing wow. |
| 22:21.07 | aestil | 8 fps. |
| 22:21.11 | Shirik | ouchies |
| 22:21.12 | dashkal | Orionshock: Is this a feature of the localization library or Lua itself? |
| 22:21.20 | Orionshock | little of both |
| 22:21.21 | Ellipsis | aestil: that shouldn't happen unless the temp peaked to 100C or more on the CPU |
| 22:21.24 | Shirik | stupid questions, you checked the thermal paste, etc. yeah? |
| 22:21.37 | aestil | that happened at a time when i wasn't running the thing to make it go faster. |
| 22:21.38 | Xinhuan | dashkal: depends on which tutorial you're reading |
| 22:21.40 | Ellipsis | Shirik: it's a laptop |
| 22:21.41 | aestil | before i d/l that program. |
| 22:21.42 | Xinhuan | there's a few around |
| 22:21.45 | Shirik | oh |
| 22:21.49 | Xinhuan | one is for ace2 localization libraries |
| 22:21.49 | Shirik | hm |
| 22:21.55 | Xinhuan | the other is standalone |
| 22:21.57 | Shirik | built it or by a company? |
| 22:22.03 | Orionshock | basicly it doing a table look up, and the meta table / if u use it ports the key to the value .. its one way.. |
| 22:22.13 | dashkal | http://wowace.com/wiki/WelcomeHome_-_Your_first_Ace2_Addon#Building_the_Localization_Database |
| 22:22.16 | Ellipsis | aestil: it was likely the GPU underclocking rather than the CPU |
| 22:22.22 | Orionshock | dashkal: http://shock-wow.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/DailyFu/DailyFu.lua |
| 22:22.33 | Ellipsis | windows will never report a speedstepped CPU correctly unless you disable speedstep in the bios |
| 22:22.39 | Orionshock | my little one that has locale in it |
| 22:22.44 | Xinhuan | dashkal: that one clearly uses ace2 localization library |
| 22:22.49 | Xinhuan | local L = AceLibrary("AceLocale-2.2"):new("WelcomeHome") |
| 22:22.53 | CIA-7 | 03kemayo * r53814 10BankStack/ (core.lua sort.lua stack.lua): |
| 22:22.53 | CIA-7 | BankStack: |
| 22:22.54 | CIA-7 | -Rewrote stack and sort functions so they can be chained together. |
| 22:22.54 | CIA-7 | -"/sort" will now compress the bags first, and will sort specialty bags separately. |
| 22:22.54 | Xinhuan | you can see that in there |
| 22:22.55 | Ellipsis | so unless you had a proper performance monitoring program running, I'm going with the CPU was at full speed :P |
| 22:23.07 | Xinhuan | so unless you read the code inside acelocale-2.2.lua |
| 22:23.12 | dashkal | I was just confused by the ["foo"] = true trick |
| 22:23.15 | Xinhuan | you won't really have any idea what the library is doing |
| 22:23.20 | kadrahil | do you have to buy a copy of wow for each of your accounts? |
| 22:23.22 | kadrahil | :( |
| 22:23.43 | Xinhuan | the ["foo"] = true thing is just a library shortcut for acelocale-2.2 library |
| 22:23.45 | dashkal | I don't really want to know _how_ it happens, I just wanted to be sure it was Ace2's Localalization and not something i missed when learning Lua |
| 22:23.49 | Xinhuan | for the enUS or enGB locale |
| 22:24.08 | Shirik | oh no |
| 22:24.11 | Shirik | that's definitely Ace2 |
| 22:24.17 | Xinhuan | it has nothing to do with lua, its a ace2 library thing |
| 22:24.22 | Shirik | in Lua it sets it to true :) |
| 22:24.27 | Xinhuan | a shortcut, like i said |
| 22:24.29 | Shirik | Ace2 just understands what true means :) |
| 22:24.55 | Xinhuan | the ace2 locale library inteprets the "true" to mean the string index inself |
| 22:24.59 | Xinhuan | itself* |
| 22:25.04 | dashkal | *nods* that works then |
| 22:25.13 | dashkal | The tutorial wasn't clear (or I missed that and am clueless) |
| 22:25.56 | Xinhuan | you should not be learning to write addons using ace2 until you know the full basics of addon writing in wow first - such as event handling, frames, etc |
| 22:26.17 | Xinhuan | because using a framework such as ace2 hides you from a lot of "background" stuff that you should/need to know |
| 22:26.26 | Xinhuan | esp if you are planning to write a complicated addon |
| 22:26.31 | Kemayo | There's nothing wrong with learning on Ace2 -- you can go either way. |
| 22:26.46 | Shirik | warning C4996: 'sprintf': This function or variable may be unsafe. Consider using sprintf_s instead. |
| 22:26.50 | Shirik | Someone needs to tell my compiler to shut up |
| 22:26.52 | Shirik | I know how to code |
| 22:26.55 | dashkal | Xinhuin: I prefer to start with a framework and slowly remove training wheels. Just my learning pattern |
| 22:27.08 | Kalroth | You shouldn't make a program on Windows because you haven't studied how the x86 processor structure works! |
| 22:27.25 | Shirik | you shouldn't make a program on windows period |
| 22:27.25 | dashkal | Agreed that I do need to understand what is under the hood to do something complicated. |
| 22:27.34 | NightHawkTheSane | ^^ |
| 22:27.38 | Xinhuan | well i find it easier to learn the basics, and then learn how the library hides it all for you |
| 22:27.48 | Xinhuan | learning assembly language for instance, is easier if you start with the basics |
| 22:27.53 | Kalroth | Shirik: Depends on your target user group :) |
| 22:28.01 | Shirik | I know :( I have to code on Windows :( |
| 22:28.04 | dashkal | *nods* Perfectly valid way to learn, but one that can easily overwhelm me. |
| 22:28.10 | Shirik | I have a lot of the API memorized. I hate it, but I do it anyway |
| 22:28.11 | Orionshock | lol, im not a real programmer i just use whats convenient |
| 22:28.16 | Xinhuan | then you slowly work yourself up and find how compilers make assembly code |
| 22:28.30 | Xinhuan | from C code |
| 22:28.39 | Shirik | It's much easier to understand some things if you understand the basics |
| 22:28.54 | Shirik | like it's hard to understand race conditions if you don't know that "foo++" is actually 3 operations in assembly |
| 22:28.55 | *** join/#wowace Sole (n=chatzill@203.109.207.188) |
| 22:29.01 | NightHawkTheSane | Xinhuan: and then realize that compilers are actually not that great at it, and you could write much better ASM yourself, but it'd be akin to bashing your head against a brick wall. |
| 22:29.25 | dashkal | I'll probably write one or two of my 'training addons' raw. But a step at a time. This is a nice, non-threatening entry point |
| 22:29.31 | Xinhuan | well NightHawkTheSane, its not that, but understanding the basics is always important |
| 22:29.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Xinhuan: yes, i was being largely sarcastic. ;) |
| 22:29.45 | Shirik | actually on 68HCS12, foo++ would be one instruction, but that's not the point |
| 22:29.59 | Xinhuan | if a person does understand that compilers aren't that great at it and why, they will write good programs :) |
| 22:30.26 | NightHawkTheSane | nah, i've forgotten almost all the ASM i learned. :\ |
| 22:30.36 | Shirik | I wish I could forget assembly |
| 22:30.40 | Shirik | but I use it too much |
| 22:30.47 | Shirik | 3 different architectures >< |
| 22:30.52 | dashkal | Xinhuan: You are correct in that developers should understand these things. What I disaggree with is that I should _start_ there. |
| 22:31.20 | aestil | the SV folder in the /account name/server name/character name folder is just full of personal stuff right? for that character? no addon settings. It shoudl be nuked for an interface compilation distrobution? |
| 22:31.31 | kenlyric | real men code in binary |
| 22:31.52 | Xinhuan | aestil: they often contain character specific settings for addons |
| 22:32.00 | NightHawkTheSane | real programmers wave magnets over their HDDs in careful patterns. |
| 22:32.00 | kenlyric | using a koolaid interpreter. |
| 22:32.10 | aestil | top score fu... kill that right? |
| 22:32.11 | Shirik | NightHawkTheSane: lol |
| 22:32.26 | kenlyric | NightHawkTheSane: you know another way to code in binary? other than koolaid, of course. |
| 22:32.35 | Xinhuan | for eg, a mage could choose to have swstats display "damage", but a healer alt of his could choose to have "healing done" shown instead |
| 22:32.57 | *** join/#wowace ND (n=Miranda@h062040167062.gun.cm.kabsi.at) |
| 22:33.00 | Xinhuan | and those character specific settings would be usually stored there - if the addon is structured to do so |
| 22:33.06 | kenlyric | Xinhuan: it'd be nice if it had a choice though. |
| 22:33.10 | aestil | Xinhuan: but the settings for where the sws frame is located, and its size, is that in character or in the global SV |
| 22:33.21 | kenlyric | recount at least doesn't seem to have one. |
| 22:33.25 | Xinhuan | aestil that depends on how the frame position is stored |
| 22:33.26 | kenlyric | you get char profiles and that's it. |
| 22:33.37 | aestil | hmm. |
| 22:33.43 | aestil | i just don't want to include stuff i shouldn't. |
| 22:33.51 | Xinhuan | if you used drag/drop to position the frame, wow saves the frame location in layout-cache.txt in your char specific folder |
| 22:33.56 | kenlyric | I haven't checked omen lately... I suppose it can be set to default profile too. |
| 22:33.57 | NightHawkTheSane | It's mostly up to the addon to determine where it stores it's SVs isn't it? |
| 22:34.06 | kenlyric | yup. |
| 22:34.16 | Xinhuan | this can be overriden if the addon in question also stores the frame position in the SV |
| 22:34.16 | NightHawkTheSane | i mean in terms of the per char/global sv files |
| 22:34.26 | kenlyric | it bugs me that recount doesn't store location in SV |
| 22:34.40 | Xinhuan | but otherwise, layout is stored in layout-cache.txt in your char specific folder |
| 22:34.43 | Xinhuan | have a look in it |
| 22:34.44 | kenlyric | it's one of the few ace addons that doesn't. |
| 22:34.48 | aestil | there is a binding-cache.wtf in my account/account name/ folder |
| 22:34.48 | Xinhuan | its just a list of framenames |
| 22:34.59 | Xinhuan | with their X/Y cooridinate and their framelevel |
| 22:35.01 | aestil | is that where its supposed to be? |
| 22:35.29 | aestil | should there be anything in the account/account name/ folder, other than other folders. |
| 22:35.42 | Xinhuan | if you disable those addons where their frame position is stored in layout-cache.txt, login, logout, then enable addon, the login again, you will find your layout placement for that addon totally lost |
| 22:36.01 | Xinhuan | since wow.exe doesn't write frames that dont' exist to that file |
| 22:36.18 | Xinhuan | yes |
| 22:36.26 | Xinhuan | there are account wide settings for an account |
| 22:36.27 | aestil | so, is there supposed to be stuff in the account/account name/ folder? |
| 22:36.30 | Xinhuan | such as acconut-wide macros |
| 22:36.39 | Xinhuan | that are stored in macro macro-cache.txt |
| 22:36.53 | aestil | account wide SV/s in savedvaribalbe.lua? |
| 22:37.02 | aestil | and acccount wide bindings? |
| 22:37.03 | Xinhuan | no, in the main account folder |
| 22:37.26 | aestil | i have that stuff in /wtf/account/account name. |
| 22:37.30 | Xinhuan | you'll find your keybindings, macro-cache and a cache.md5 |
| 22:37.31 | aestil | it seems to have been working. |
| 22:37.43 | aestil | kk. |
| 22:37.52 | aestil | dunno what cache.md5 is. |
| 22:38.06 | Xinhuan | its a md5 of your cache apparantly |
| 22:38.22 | aestil | lol @ you for knowing what that means. |
| 22:38.24 | aestil | :) |
| 22:38.33 | Xinhuan | a hash check or something |
| 22:38.47 | CIA-7 | 037destiny * r53815 10BigWigs/ (5 files in 5 dirs): |
| 22:38.47 | CIA-7 | BigWigs: |
| 22:38.47 | CIA-7 | - Plugins/Bars: CreateFrame..(add local font) |
| 22:38.47 | CIA-7 | - update koKR |
| 22:38.53 | NightHawkTheSane | I would have thought something labeled .md5 is pretty obvious |
| 22:39.06 | Xinhuan | what we don't know is how wow uses it |
| 22:39.15 | Xinhuan | not that we don't know what md5 is |
| 22:41.05 | aestil | anyone wanna test my UI, before I upload it? |
| 22:41.16 | aestil | [everyone looks at aestil crazy] |
| 22:41.52 | many | is it tasty? |
| 22:42.02 | Neebler | SS.jpg requested |
| 22:42.22 | aestil | http://surl.se/garq |
| 22:42.34 | aestil | i just need someone to try it, to see if i zipped it up right. |
| 22:43.27 | Orionshock | ..?? newish guild. 1 night even looking at prince in KZ, 4 attempts , 1st kill...? |
| 22:43.37 | Neebler | needs less worthless chat boxs! |
| 22:43.46 | aestil | neebler! ok! |
| 22:44.09 | Neebler | I like the target unitframe |
| 22:46.06 | aestil | chat frames are for general-trade-say-yell-LFG / guild-whisper-officer / party-BG-Raid / combat log |
| 22:46.30 | aestil | i did not want to convert anyone to my UI, just was hoping someone could test that i included the files correctly. |
| 22:47.09 | *** join/#wowace Sole_ (n=chatzill@203.109.207.188) |
| 22:47.13 | *** join/#wowace Leialyn (n=leialyn@p54B4DFDC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:49.41 | Ellipsis | sigh aestil, always with the wall-of-text fubars :P |
| 22:49.52 | aestil | yes. its sexy. |
| 22:49.55 | aestil | i hate icons. |
| 22:50.05 | Ellipsis | icons are smaller and easier to recognize |
| 22:50.14 | aestil | but they provide no information i need. |
| 22:50.16 | Ellipsis | same amount of information in less screen space = win |
| 22:50.19 | Ellipsis | for example |
| 22:50.22 | aestil | no. |
| 22:50.24 | aestil | fail. |
| 22:50.36 | Ellipsis | your "No mail (0)" is about 5 times the size of a little mail icon colored white to show there's no mail :P |
| 22:50.42 | dashkal | woot. done the tutorial. Though I don't like the ["foo"] = true trick since it means I have to fix typos in two files now |
| 22:50.45 | aestil | yes, but i don't like the icon. |
| 22:50.47 | aestil | its ugly. |
| 22:50.49 | Ellipsis | no u |
| 22:51.14 | many | draw a nicey one! |
| 22:51.18 | kenlyric | yeah, all those fubars need to display their text. |
| 22:51.36 | Ellipsis | I also see two "DPS" things which confuses me |
| 22:51.38 | Ellipsis | but whatever |
| 22:51.45 | many | a nicey envelope with a number is nicey |
| 22:51.47 | kenlyric | the mail thing does seem dumb to me. why even count? |
| 22:51.56 | Ellipsis | ^ |
| 22:52.02 | Ellipsis | either you have mail or you don't |
| 22:52.10 | Ellipsis | who cares how much there is, you still need to go grab it |
| 22:52.16 | *** join/#wowace masanbol (n=masanbol@c-98-198-102-241.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 22:52.21 | aestil | DPS is the name of my closet gnome set, that i am currently wearing. |
| 22:52.23 | Ellipsis | and if you *really* want to know, that's what the tooltip is for |
| 22:52.28 | Ellipsis | aestil: ...fail |
| 22:52.31 | many | hehe |
| 22:52.40 | aestil | the sws thing, is pretty self explanatory |
| 22:52.51 | aestil | the big number/small number is top score. |
| 22:52.53 | kenlyric | all that count will ever tell you is how many things you keep in the mailbox after you leave. |
| 22:52.54 | aestil | then its friends |
| 22:52.56 | aestil | then guild |
| 22:53.00 | aestil | then bug sack |
| 22:53.04 | aestil | i know all of this without looking |
| 22:53.11 | *** join/#wowace zacw (n=zac@adium/zacw) |
| 22:53.19 | aestil | kenlyric: yes. and that information makes me happy for some reason. |
| 22:53.45 | kenlyric | I should show Ellipsis my fubars and see if she screams. |
| 22:53.54 | Ellipsis | yeah but say you want to see how many of your friends are online. you glance up at the fubar and see three different "#/#" type strings. you have to look at ALL of them to figure out which one's which |
| 22:54.15 | Orionshock | ... i don't get it... we down prince last night and our lead lock wasn't there and he's all but hurt about us downing him b/c "The Core Raid Group wasn't there and we had a "pug" rogue" ... wth.. |
| 22:54.49 | kenlyric | Orionshock: sounds like a winner |
| 22:55.17 | CIA-7 | 03pettigrow * r53816 10BigWigs/ (5 files in 5 dirs): BigWigs: frFR Update |
| 22:55.26 | Orionshock | had to explain to him that G2 is just starting moroes, and has atleast a month if not more, and so do we depending on drops... |
| 22:56.32 | kenlyric | man, when I come back to wow I'm taking a new screenshot. These are all horribly out of date. |
| 22:57.24 | aestil | Ellipsis: i don't. i know which of those is my friends. |
| 22:57.28 | aestil | i miss Alt + invite. |
| 22:57.31 | aestil | is there a mod that does that? |
| 22:57.51 | aestil | Orionshock: he's stupid. |
| 22:57.57 | aestil | Orionshock: inform him that i said so. |
| 22:58.21 | Orionshock | ya... |
| 22:58.42 | Orionshock | we've had 2 kills on Curator, 1 on illhoof, 1 on shade and now 1 on prince... |
| 22:58.50 | kenlyric | http://media.abels.us/games/wow/UI2007-09-11_prettiest.jpg.jpg my fubar is even more cluttered now. but my action bars are less. |
| 22:59.11 | Ellipsis | aestil, please distract me so I don't say mean things to kenlyric :( |
| 22:59.35 | Orionshock | we've got atleast 4 weeks before thinking about gruuls let alone that g2 hasn't even gotten past maiden i think.... meh... |
| 22:59.45 | aestil | Ellipsis: my penis is rather large. |
| 22:59.50 | kenlyric | Ellipsis: I think you miss the point of fubar. |
| 22:59.51 | Ellipsis | no pix no proof |
| 22:59.59 | kenlyric | it's so you don't have to open shit up. |
| 23:00.10 | Ellipsis | o rly? |
| 23:00.17 | Ellipsis | that's bad interface design imo |
| 23:00.18 | Funkeh` | Can you stfu about sex without inviting me to the conversation first ok |
| 23:00.34 | Ellipsis | Funkeh`: k *invite* |
| 23:00.40 | Funkeh` | LFM? |
| 23:00.47 | kenlyric | that's the opposite of bad interface design. |
| 23:00.58 | Ellipsis | oh, I thought it was just gonna be the two of us...but whatever you're into |
| 23:01.15 | Ellipsis | kenlyric: cluttering the screen with information you don't need most of the time is not good design :P |
| 23:01.27 | Ellipsis | if I don't need to see it, it shouldn't be visible. |
| 23:01.31 | kenlyric | it's information I need most of the time. |
| 23:02.02 | Ellipsis | you *need* your pitbull, grid, bartender, etc. icons all the time? |
| 23:02.14 | Ellipsis | what useful information are they giving you? "I'm running"? |
| 23:02.20 | Funkeh` | lol |
| 23:02.40 | kenlyric | yes, i use them all the time. |
| 23:02.41 | Funkeh` | I hide my fubar, its basically a control panel where I access my addons |
| 23:02.57 | Funkeh` | and I hardly ever config them when they are done |
| 23:03.09 | kenlyric | though I could probably make one just for mod icons and make it disappear. Or just use rock config. |
| 23:03.12 | Ellipsis | kenlyric: if you really do that much config with those addons, then use niagara, since you have that icon visible too |
| 23:03.21 | kenlyric | niagara is gone. |
| 23:03.26 | Ellipsis | well rock config then |
| 23:03.28 | Ellipsis | whatever |
| 23:03.33 | kenlyric | I have to click twice! |
| 23:03.36 | Ellipsis | no you don't |
| 23:03.43 | Ellipsis | right click an empty spot on your fubar = instant rock config! |
| 23:03.48 | kenlyric | I click on rock, then change to the mod I want. |
| 23:03.48 | Ellipsis | how much easier does it get? |
| 23:03.54 | kenlyric | two clicks |
| 23:04.01 | nevcairiel | right click on fubar = instant 1s freeze, then config |
| 23:04.09 | Ellipsis | well technically that's three because you have to click the dropdown too |
| 23:04.16 | Funkeh` | Are you _seriously_ complaining about 2 clicks over one? Somehow wow isn't the game for you. |
| 23:04.18 | kenlyric | and then I have to change the settings. |
| 23:04.21 | Ellipsis | nevcairiel: yours freezes? I've never had that problem, and my computer is really slow |
| 23:04.26 | Ellipsis | sure it's not a bug? |
| 23:04.27 | Orionshock | ... what configing addons in combat again?? |
| 23:04.38 | kenlyric | as where on bartender, i can unlock frames with two clicks. |
| 23:04.39 | nevcairiel | i never used it Ellipsis; only repeating reports i heard |
| 23:04.56 | CIA-7 | 03anxarces * r53817 10ProfessionsBook/ (5 files): |
| 23:04.56 | CIA-7 | ProfessionsBook: |
| 23:04.56 | CIA-7 | -Fixed nil errors in PB_DB.lua (lines 748, 862, 945) |
| 23:04.56 | CIA-7 | -Recipe difficulty should be updated now when a character makes progress in a trade skill. |
| 23:04.58 | Ellipsis | Funkeh`, it's a valid argument since we're discussing proper UI design :P |
| 23:05.01 | Orionshock | who the hell REALLY cares about that 1s freeze ? what is it going to eat your 1st born? |
| 23:05.37 | kenlyric | but mostly i'm still looking for ways to make those icons go away except when i want them. |
| 23:05.40 | nevcairiel | Orionshock: nah, but you dont always hit the icon you wanted to click, maybe eben in combat |
| 23:05.48 | Ellipsis | nevcairiel: so you're taking a secondhand report of a problem that may or may not exist and is likely exaggerated, and then stating it as fact? very polite. |
| 23:05.52 | kenlyric | I was hoping someone somewhere would complain about my 0/0 friends :) |
| 23:05.55 | Orionshock | lol |
| 23:06.05 | Orionshock | your stupidity =/= someone elses problem |
| 23:06.20 | *** join/#wowace Adys|sleep (i=Adys@APoitiers-257-1-74-132.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:06.23 | Ellipsis | kenlyric: actually I feel good not being the only one :P |
| 23:06.32 | nevcairiel | Ellipsis: oh well, i guess i adapt to the audience i talk to here |
| 23:06.33 | aestil | nevcairiel: i dont' have any noticeable 'lag' from opening rock config |
| 23:06.42 | kenlyric | it would be better if I had eeshards in this screenshot. |
| 23:06.46 | kenlyric | most people are like "wtf?" |
| 23:06.50 | Ellipsis | haha |
| 23:06.53 | Ellipsis | huntard fails |
| 23:06.55 | NightHawkTheSane | aestil: i do. :P |
| 23:07.02 | kenlyric | 9 in 1 UI design. |
| 23:07.20 | Ellipsis | use reagentfu or whatever then |
| 23:07.23 | kenlyric | yea, this just needs to be updated. |
| 23:07.28 | Ellipsis | it counts shards *and* will do ammo for your hunter, etc. |
| 23:07.31 | aestil | ammofu tracks shards as well as ammo. |
| 23:07.35 | kenlyric | eeshards is the one that destroys them. |
| 23:07.40 | NightHawkTheSane | when opening rock config via right-click on fubar or a mis-modifier click on pitbull the game freezes 1-3 seconds while it opens |
| 23:07.41 | kenlyric | ammofu is seriously broken. |
| 23:07.48 | kenlyric | but yeah, I use reagentfu. |
| 23:07.54 | kenlyric | it's a very happy 9 in 1 mod. |
| 23:08.04 | aestil | NightHawkTheSane: wow. that's unfortunate. i don't have that problem at all. |
| 23:08.08 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: strange...what are your specs like? |
| 23:08.12 | aestil | a bit of lag on a misclick, in combat, on UF |
| 23:08.25 | Ellipsis | wtf are you guys doing that you misclick modifiers on your UFs?? |
| 23:08.30 | Orionshock | ya that issue with pitbull is quite an annoyance |
| 23:08.41 | Ellipsis | I've never done that...I didn't even know that would open rock config now |
| 23:08.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: usually fatfingering option-shift-left-click |
| 23:08.51 | *** join/#wowace Kazie (n=k@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 23:08.57 | aestil | alt + right click on UF opens rock config |
| 23:08.57 | kenlyric | well, my click casting mod... doesn't believe I should be able to use alt on some things. |
| 23:08.57 | NightHawkTheSane | at least for me |
| 23:09.03 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: which you would normally be doing why exactly? |
| 23:09.12 | NightHawkTheSane | or, forgetting which character i'm on and forgetting which modifier clicks i have mapped |
| 23:09.18 | aestil | Ellipsis: it happens to me, because my huge penis got in the way. |
| 23:09.21 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: because opt-shift-left-click is my downranked healing wave. |
| 23:09.31 | nevcairiel | doesnt really matter why people mis-click, its just a blocking bug (imho) when your game freezes |
| 23:09.31 | Ellipsis | ...oooooook |
| 23:09.34 | nevcairiel | for whatever reason |
| 23:09.40 | Orionshock | um well my ToT frame is usualy a mob / hostile, and well.. a bad modified click on it opens rock |
| 23:09.43 | NightHawkTheSane | I don't mind the game freeze, actually |
| 23:09.44 | Ellipsis | my game doesn't freeze when I open rock config |
| 23:09.45 | Orionshock | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:09.47 | kenlyric | I wish click-2-cast let you do global and local binds. |
| 23:09.56 | aestil | it happens because you can't change secure frames druing combat i belive. |
| 23:09.58 | kenlyric | so i could make one bind always be Menu/target/etc. |
| 23:10.02 | NightHawkTheSane | I mind the BIG FUCKING WINDOW that blocks my view if i accidentally open it |
| 23:10.05 | Ellipsis | and I don't have any problems with accidentally opening it |
| 23:10.11 | Ellipsis | so I don't know why people are complaining o.O |
| 23:10.13 | aestil | it'd probably be better if you couldn't open rock config at all [for pitbull] during combat. |
| 23:10.29 | NightHawkTheSane | aestil: configs shouldn't really be usable in combat, at all. |
| 23:10.35 | Ellipsis | uh |
| 23:10.37 | Ellipsis | many are |
| 23:10.40 | kenlyric | or even, have the option to not open during combat. |
| 23:10.40 | Ellipsis | and should remain that way |
| 23:10.46 | Ellipsis | please no artificial limits on addons |
| 23:11.00 | Ellipsis | I configure lots of non-secure frames in combat |
| 23:11.06 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: i mean should as a design decision, not as some outside-enforced decision |
| 23:11.09 | Ellipsis | I don't want to be prevented from doing it "just in case" |
| 23:11.33 | NightHawkTheSane | Also, pitbull throwing a config window up on any random not-assigned-to-something-else click, is just idiotic. |
| 23:11.35 | kenlyric | like my bag mod, gives the option to close in combat or not. |
| 23:11.39 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: sure, for unit frames or something, their config menus shouldn't pop up in combat |
| 23:11.41 | Ellipsis | I agree with that |
| 23:11.49 | Ellipsis | I don't agree with "don't let rock config open in combat" |
| 23:11.52 | kenlyric | not just pitbull... |
| 23:12.09 | nevcairiel | i dont agree with the rock-config idea in general, but thats another topic :P |
| 23:12.14 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: actually, rock config is the worst, because it's just so damn big and space consuming |
| 23:12.23 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: you know it's resizable, right? |
| 23:12.26 | aestil | nevcairiel: SHOCK YOU DON'T???? WE NEVER KNEW??? |
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| 23:12.49 | kenlyric | I never liked fubar's "let's show giant list config on misclick" even before the rock window. |
| 23:12.53 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: yes, but any reasonable size is going to still be "too damn big", when you're not trying to look at it. |
| 23:12.55 | kenlyric | it was still a giant tooltip. |
| 23:12.58 | Orionshock | nevcairiel: that Ace3GUI dosn't look to hot either.. it's just more of the same shit different layout crap that we've all seen from preGen setups... |
| 23:13.06 | nevcairiel | Orionshock: its not the design |
| 23:13.21 | nevcairiel | Orionshock: its that one big fucking window for all addons, that i dont like |
| 23:13.28 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: I don't know about this modifier click stuff, but I don't have any problems with that, so I can't quite see where you're coming from |
| 23:13.31 | nevcairiel | like niagara |
| 23:13.32 | nevcairiel | etc |
| 23:13.34 | Ellipsis | if I don't want rock config, I don't open it :/ |
| 23:13.43 | kenlyric | but you don't have the option. |
| 23:13.47 | Ellipsis | yes I do |
| 23:13.51 | kenlyric | fubar gives you absolutely no choice. |
| 23:13.57 | Ellipsis | I don't do alt-shift-ctrl-rightclick on my unit frames |
| 23:13.59 | kenlyric | it just says fuck you and opens it. |
| 23:14.08 | Ellipsis | and I don't right click empty spots on my fubar unless I want to open the rock config window |
| 23:14.22 | kenlyric | you must just be fucking perfect then. |
| 23:14.27 | Ellipsis | ? |
| 23:14.34 | kenlyric | lazers in your eyes |
| 23:14.37 | nevcairiel | she always is |
| 23:14.41 | nevcairiel | at least, claims to |
| 23:14.42 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: you can't seriously be saying that it's absolutely perfect just because YOU never have any problems with it? |
| 23:14.44 | Orionshock | well tbh.. im not OCD about my addon config so im not bothered by it much... |
| 23:14.59 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: I'm saying I'm not going to participate in a conversation about the modifier clicks on unit frames |
| 23:15.06 | Ellipsis | the other stuff, I'll gladly discuss |
| 23:15.13 | kenlyric | I did find if I reduce the space between fubar mods, I misclick much less. |
| 23:15.21 | Ellipsis | if you don't like the size of the window, make it smaller |
| 23:15.28 | Ellipsis | if you don't want it open, don't open it |
| 23:15.37 | NightHawkTheSane | I don't like the size of any window, if it opens when I don't want it to. |
| 23:15.51 | NightHawkTheSane | and rock config opens when i want it to far more than -any- other mod i've -ever- used |
| 23:15.57 | NightHawkTheSane | er |
| 23:16.01 | Orionshock | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:16.02 | NightHawkTheSane | when i -don't- want it to |
| 23:16.18 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: when? |
| 23:16.23 | kenlyric | or how about the developer spend 30 seconds giving an option to not open it during combat? or to let us assign opening it to a specific modifier. |
| 23:16.41 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: when i click on my unit frames, when i right click on an empty space in fubar, any time i'm in combat |
| 23:16.43 | Orionshock | kenlyric: jira.wowace.com |
| 23:17.07 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: why are you right clicking on your fubar? what did you mean to do instead? |
| 23:17.09 | kenlyric | NightHawkTheSane: you're just dumb. |
| 23:17.16 | kenlyric | NightHawkTheSane: don't misclick on fubar, of course. |
| 23:17.55 | kenlyric | only retards like us misclick on fubar! |
| 23:18.05 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: typically either aiming for another fubar item and miss, or aiming for the wow title bar, and miss, or aiming for my menu bar, and miss. |
| 23:18.06 | Ellipsis | kenlyric, that's not fair, I never said anything like that |
| 23:18.11 | Ellipsis | I just don't see how someone *can* |
| 23:18.11 | Orionshock | lol see u figured it out kenlyric |
| 23:18.16 | kenlyric | that's exactly what you said. |
| 23:18.24 | Ellipsis | because I'm quite clumsy and misclick often, but I've never opened rock config accidentally |
| 23:18.43 | kenlyric | Ellipsis>and I don't right click empty spots on my fubar unless I want to open the rock config window |
| 23:18.45 | Ellipsis | so I don't know why people are acting like it jumps out at them in the middle of boss fights |
| 23:18.45 | NightHawkTheSane | it's not that hard if you have your mouse acceleration/speed tuned to a sane level :P |
| 23:18.51 | dashkal | ok, that's annoying. Why can't PLAYER_XP_UPDATE set an argument with the gain? |
| 23:19.07 | nevcairiel | i've heard alot of people complain about misclicking on fubar, only because you dont, its still a valid argument. |
| 23:19.12 | nevcairiel | but hey, we know you already |
| 23:19.21 | Ellipsis | nevcairiel: I'm trying to ask *how* and *why* it happens |
| 23:19.23 | aestil | i'd love for there to be an option. |
| 23:19.27 | kenlyric | right-click on the actual fubar mods often does useful things. |
| 23:19.31 | Ellipsis | and everyone's jumping all over me like I'm insulting you guys |
| 23:19.39 | nevcairiel | Ellipsis: you are |
| 23:19.40 | aestil | to turn off rock config in combat. |
| 23:19.44 | Ellipsis | I never insulted anyone |
| 23:19.47 | kenlyric | you go a pixel outside of it, and bam, big window. |
| 23:19.54 | Ellipsis | all I said was that it doesn't happen to me, and I'm trying to understand how it happens to everyone else |
| 23:20.01 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: the fact that you can't even begin to fathom how you can simply be moving fastand miss a target with your mouse astounds me |
| 23:20.03 | nevcairiel | you just mis the plugin |
| 23:20.08 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: did you read what I said? |
| 23:20.13 | Ellipsis | [4:16:32 pm] <Ellipsis> because I'm quite clumsy and misclick often, but I've never opened rock config accidentally |
| 23:20.14 | nevcairiel | if you only have the icon visible and not the text, thats easy |
| 23:20.19 | kenlyric | laser targetting, like I said. never misses. |
| 23:20.40 | Ellipsis | nevcairiel: you mean you click in between two plugins? |
| 23:20.47 | nevcairiel | Ellipsis: obviously |
| 23:20.53 | Ellipsis | oh |
| 23:20.56 | vhaarr | give me the dewdrop back I say, that config window is just in the way |
| 23:20.59 | Ellipsis | why not just set the spacing smaller? |
| 23:21.00 | kenlyric | also sometimes my brain forgets if right click or left click does the useful thing on the mod, since it's different for each one. |
| 23:21.04 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: let me get you a screenshot of my ui in a second |
| 23:21.08 | dashkal | Ellipsis: Happens to me all the time. Usually when I'm trying to get at the right-click menu for one of the plugins |
| 23:21.14 | dylanm | There's active space between plugins? That seems like a bad idea. |
| 23:21.18 | NightHawkTheSane | i've got huge empty space in my fubar |
| 23:21.25 | kenlyric | i'd rather set the spacing to 0 if there was an option set padding higher. |
| 23:21.34 | Ellipsis | my fubar is fairly small, and the spacing is set very low - I don't think I can click in between plugins |
| 23:21.48 | kenlyric | so that I reduce fubar's surface area to 0 but my individual mods aren't stacked on top of eac other. |
| 23:21.51 | Ellipsis | there is only one gap of empty fubar to click, and that gap is there specifically as a shortcut for opening rock config |
| 23:21.59 | Ellipsis | kenlyric: there is one, use it |
| 23:22.09 | kenlyric | there's not a padding and a spacing option. |
| 23:22.12 | kenlyric | just a spacing one. |
| 23:22.30 | Ellipsis | if you set the spacing low enough that you're not wasting space, you can't click between plugins :/ |
| 23:22.40 | kenlyric | unless something is horribly mislabeled |
| 23:22.57 | aestil | anyone using ace3UF? |
| 23:22.57 | nevcairiel | i have a spacing option |
| 23:22.58 | Ellipsis | there's three settings - spacing for left, center, and right aligned |
| 23:22.58 | kenlyric | if I set spacing to 0, they're too close together. |
| 23:23.02 | nevcairiel | (but i still use FuBar2) |
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| 23:23.08 | Ellipsis | don't use 0, then |
| 23:23.14 | Ellipsis | mine's 1 or 2 I think |
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| 23:23.33 | Orionshock | speaking of rock .. hi ckknight |
| 23:23.46 | dashkal | My biggest complain with the rockconfig window is it always surprises me. Right-clicking is expected to provoke a small menu, not a large window. |
| 23:23.48 | aestil | i'm curious if the new ace3UF will use dogtag 2.0? its libstub right? |
| 23:24.46 | kenlyric | i'd say the one that gets me every time is skillsplusfu, because it's on the edge of blank space and has random different things assigned to left click and right click. So a padding option there would be perfect.. |
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| 23:25.14 | vhaarr | the whole Rock project should just be reverted completely, and all those new major version libraries removed again |
| 23:25.14 | dashkal | but then *shrugs* rather than bitch about it all the time when I see people resisting that there is a problem, is I'll just patch it myself and move on |
| 23:25.19 | vhaarr | the only thing worth keeping/backporting is the 3.0 babble libs |
| 23:25.57 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: here's my UI (apologies for the size) http://www.asylumsw.com/misc/ui.jpeg |
| 23:26.19 | aestil | what the hell resolution is that? |
| 23:26.20 | NightHawkTheSane | it's not terribly uncommon for me to misclick the large gulfs of empty space between the left, center, and right areas |
| 23:26.29 | NightHawkTheSane | 1600 by something or other |
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| 23:26.42 | aestil | says 1609x1006? you run windowed mode or somthing? |
| 23:26.48 | NightHawkTheSane | yes |
| 23:26.50 | aestil | wierd. |
| 23:26.57 | NightHawkTheSane | dual monitor |
| 23:27.02 | kenlyric | doesn't everybody? |
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| 23:27.11 | aestil | i runn fullscreen windowed mode. |
| 23:27.16 | aestil | so my screenshots are still 1920x1200 |
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| 23:27.26 | NightHawkTheSane | yeah, i don't like maximized windowed mode |
| 23:27.52 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: have you ever considered making your fubar smaller? |
| 23:28.01 | kenlyric | I can't wait until i get a widescreen at home so I can work my UI around widescreen. |
| 23:28.07 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: yeah, but I like it the way it is. |
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| 23:29.31 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: then maybe you could make three separate fubars for left/center/right? |
| 23:29.40 | Ellipsis | achieve teh same effect without all that dangerous fubar space! |
| 23:29.48 | NightHawkTheSane | that... seems silly. |
| 23:30.15 | NightHawkTheSane | why should i go through the trouble of setting up three fubars for that, when a single fubar works quite well, and has positioning designed specifically for that. :P |
| 23:30.49 | Orionshock | vhaarr: why not just abandon addons alltogeather, all it does is create drama and conflict with endless pissing contests, just do away with all of Ace2, Addons in general -- EVERYONE BACK TO THE BASE UI --- |
| 23:31.17 | dashkal | Meh, this book is terrible for finding the very basics... Could someone indulge me and remind me how to concatenate two strings? |
| 23:31.29 | Orionshock | please your suggestion is about as asinine as mine |
| 23:31.30 | Nargiddley | "a".."b" |
| 23:31.35 | dashkal | Danke |
| 23:32.25 | kenlyric | my fubar has to have room to grow, for locationfu, the rep watch, xp watch, a couple other mods with variable width. |
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| 23:32.42 | CIA-7 | 03kunda * r53819 10Babble-2.2/Babble-Quest-2.2/Babble-Quest-2.2.lua: |
| 23:32.42 | CIA-7 | Babble-2.2: |
| 23:32.42 | CIA-7 | Babble-Quest-2.2: added deDE translation by Warloxx (updated by Farook) |
| 23:32.54 | Paene | Anyone able to help me figure out what icon a picture is? |
| 23:33.08 | Paene | http://www.n4lguild.com/random/button.jpg |
| 23:33.38 | Orionshock | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:33.39 | Paene | can't figure out what spell/ability it belongs to |
| 23:33.45 | Paene | ooo |
| 23:33.47 | Paene | kk |
| 23:33.54 | Orionshock | i think |
| 23:34.09 | Paene | returned a nill value |
| 23:34.10 | Arrowmaster | its /print |
| 23:34.37 | Paene | problem is |
| 23:34.41 | Paene | the texture is loaded mod-side |
| 23:34.44 | Ellipsis | ok guys, here's my fubar: http://i10.tinypic.com/4mkpf1h.png |
| 23:34.45 | Paene | um |
| 23:34.55 | Paene | lemme rephrase, it's a file in the addon folder |
| 23:34.56 | Arrowmaster | get devtools |
| 23:35.01 | Ellipsis | the only place I can get it to open rock config is in the gap designed specifically for that |
| 23:35.05 | Paene | I wanna find the blizzard provided one :-;/ |
| 23:35.08 | Paene | *:-/ |
| 23:35.44 | Arrowmaster | there probably other frames ontop of the one you want which is why simple GetMouseFocus():GetTexture() isnt working |
| 23:36.10 | dashkal | lua> print ("Foo: " .. 42) |
| 23:36.10 | cladbot | dashkal: Foo: 42 |
| 23:36.15 | dashkal | oops, wrong window |
| 23:37.23 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: which is fine for your specific use case, but that's not really transferrable to everyone |
| 23:37.31 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: I don't see why not |
| 23:37.51 | Ellipsis | if people don't like there being fubar in between their plugins, they can decrease the spacing, problem solved? |
| 23:37.56 | NightHawkTheSane | ... because people shouldn't have to specifically limit the way they use their fubar just to avoid an obnoxious window from popping up? |
| 23:38.15 | Ellipsis | how does it limit their use of fubar? |
| 23:38.39 | Ellipsis | I don't see changing the spacing as something that causes severe problems |
| 23:39.00 | NightHawkTheSane | it changes the visual layout, which is something people might want a certain way |
| 23:39.03 | Nargiddley | it isnt full width, icons can't be spaced, dynamic width plugins would mess with it |
| 23:39.09 | silentium | some people dont like icons cluttering up close to each other |
| 23:39.10 | aestil | there should just be an option to block rock config during combat. |
| 23:39.14 | aestil | thats just how it should be. |
| 23:39.15 | Ellipsis | mine *are* dynamic width |
| 23:39.35 | Ellipsis | e.g. if I clear violation, the "violation text" (which I hate, btw) will extend all the way to that bugsack icon |
| 23:39.41 | NightHawkTheSane | it's entirely possible for someone to want their individual icons with more space betwen them, to make it easier for them to see |
| 23:40.13 | Ellipsis | I don't know how likely it is that someone would want that, NightHawkTheSane |
| 23:40.19 | dashkal | <--- |
| 23:40.22 | Nargiddley | <--- |
| 23:40.23 | Orionshock | zomg you guys talk as if this is a government service that everyone has the right to bitch about... |
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| 23:40.38 | NightHawkTheSane | I'm going to guess it's reasonably likely |
| 23:40.42 | Ellipsis | you guys find spacing < 5 hard to see? |
| 23:40.59 | NightHawkTheSane | not everyone who plays wow is a virile young person. |
| 23:41.05 | dashkal | Yes, it causes icons to begin to blend together. The spacing makes it easier for my eyes to track the differing icons |
| 23:41.15 | kenlyric | didn't you just say 30 minutes ago that mods shouldn't limit your options? |
| 23:41.19 | Ellipsis | I'm aware of that NightHawkTheSane, but spacing doesn't change that |
| 23:41.35 | Ellipsis | making the icons/font size larger helps those people, not spacing them 10px apart |
| 23:41.38 | Nargiddley | Its taking the UI paradigm of rightclick = context menu (that was even present in the previous version of fubar) and changing it for no good reason |
| 23:41.46 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: how do you figure? spacing between the plugins can help differentiate one plugin from another |
| 23:41.54 | Ellipsis | how? |
| 23:42.02 | dashkal | Nargiddley: Exactly. It breaks a fundimental rule of UI development: It surprises the user |
| 23:42.08 | Ellipsis | I think proper enabling/disabling of icons helps with that |
| 23:42.14 | NightHawkTheSane | Nargiddley: yeah, and there's that issue too |
| 23:42.16 | Ellipsis | e.g. aestil's is unreadable for me even though it has very high spacing |
| 23:42.27 | kenlyric | you != everyone |
| 23:42.31 | aestil | Ellipsis: fail. |
| 23:42.37 | kenlyric | that seems to be the point we keep circling around. |
| 23:42.38 | aestil | my fubar is clean, and neat. |
| 23:42.43 | kenlyric | you don't need it, so it must not be useful. |
| 23:42.44 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: the point is, everyone's different, and has their own needs, and desires for how it's easiest for them to use it. |
| 23:42.45 | Ellipsis | kenlyric: you're ignoring my point |
| 23:43.00 | Ellipsis | I don't think the spacing is visually helpful for anyone |
| 23:43.06 | kenlyric | but you're wrong. |
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| 23:43.13 | Nargiddley | Its visually helpful for me |
| 23:43.16 | kenlyric | several people here have established that you're wrong. |
| 23:43.17 | Ellipsis | anyone here unable to distinguish plugins on my fubar? |
| 23:43.17 | NightHawkTheSane | They shouldn't be told "well, just change your settings" because of a poor ui development choice |
| 23:43.45 | NightHawkTheSane | "anyone here" doesn't matter. we don't speak for the entirety of the wow, or fubar user base |
| 23:43.51 | silentium | obviously there are people who prefer "white" space between their plugins, otherwise you could simply remove the spacing setting at all |
| 23:43.59 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: plenty of addons have poor development choices with no change in sight, I have to use options that are less than optimal as workarounds for that all the time |
| 23:44.16 | kenlyric | <Ellipsis> please no artificial limits on addons |
| 23:44.18 | Ellipsis | why does fubar have to do what the minority of users wants, rather than what the developer wants it to do? |
| 23:44.26 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: yes, but that doesn't mean you can't say that those poor development choices ARE IN FACT poor devleopment choices |
| 23:44.27 | dashkal | Ellipsis: and this is an excuse for FuBar to do the same? |
| 23:44.29 | Ellipsis | why is it any different than any other addon? |
| 23:44.37 | Ellipsis | dashkal: it's a double standard |
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| 23:44.54 | Ellipsis | you guys let people get away with poor design decisions all the time, then you go on and on about how rock addons suck because of the design choices made |
| 23:45.13 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: ? that's a pretty dumb generalization. |
| 23:45.15 | kenlyric | the fubar thing isn't a rock choice. |
| 23:45.16 | silentium | Ellipsis: do you have proved numbers? simply calling people with a different opinion a minority is dangerous ;) |
| 23:45.20 | kenlyric | it's a fubar choice. |
| 23:45.26 | kenlyric | it's been around long before rock. |
| 23:45.43 | dashkal | I intend to patch this one to get around the problem. Primarally because I see resistance to the idea that this needs attention. Had it not been such a minor issue, I'd just go back to Titan. Unfortunately, titan sucks. So it's deal, patch, or go without |
| 23:45.49 | NightHawkTheSane | I'll critisize any addon that I actually have critizm for, it's got nothing to do with Rock/Fubar specifically |
| 23:45.56 | NightHawkTheSane | and damn, i keep spelling words wrong. >< |
| 23:45.59 | Ellipsis | silentium: I'm going out on a limb and saying the number of fubar-using WoW players with vision impairments that cause fubar to be unusable without increasing the spacing between plugins is very small. |
| 23:46.13 | kenlyric | just not at specific times :) |
| 23:46.25 | Ellipsis | kenlyric: the argument here is that opening the rock config when you right click between plugins is wrong - that's only existed since rock |
| 23:46.27 | dashkal | THe window is fine, but sudden popup is not |
| 23:46.33 | kenlyric | it's like niagara made less painful, and dropdowns less touchy. |
| 23:46.48 | silentium | Ellipsis: I dont have vision impairments, still I prefer some empty space between my plugins just for aesthetics |
| 23:46.49 | hyperChipmunk | i frickin hate that |
| 23:46.52 | Nargiddley | Ellipsis, you dont need a vision impairment to *like* the spacing |
| 23:47.09 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: well, kenlyric didn't like the gigantic tooltip that the ace2 version of fubar had either, i think |
| 23:47.10 | hyperChipmunk | that's why i don't use rock fubar anymore |
| 23:47.15 | Ellipsis | well if you intentionally choose that space, then don't right click it |
| 23:47.19 | Ellipsis | it doesn't seem that difficult to me |
| 23:47.22 | NightHawkTheSane | ... |
| 23:47.27 | NightHawkTheSane | because everyone is ABSOLUTELY perfect. |
| 23:47.29 | hyperChipmunk | do it during a raid and you're screwed |
| 23:47.54 | kenlyric | yeah, i've been lobbying for this option for quite some time. I've made ecookies and everything. |
| 23:47.55 | NightHawkTheSane | it's not as if anyone "tries" to mis-click anything. but mistakes happen. |
| 23:47.56 | silentium | so if you want to have empty space, you arent allowed to misclick any more? |
| 23:48.06 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: you have no excuse for "accidentally" right clicking a giant bar that is easily visible across your entire screen |
| 23:48.25 | Ellipsis | if you don't like the clicking between plugins, then decrease the spacing or live with it |
| 23:48.26 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: now that's just an idiotic thing to say |
| 23:48.32 | Ellipsis | there is no reason the addon should change just for you |
| 23:48.53 | dashkal | wow... |
| 23:48.53 | kenlyric | or, don't artifically limit addons and let us choose what happens to them in combat. |
| 23:49.02 | NightHawkTheSane | You can't just say that someone has no excuse for making a mistake, simply because of an extremely unrelated choice they made |
| 23:49.09 | Ellipsis | kenlyric: then people will complain that it still happens out of combat |
| 23:49.10 | silentium | I have a button bar with spells that I dont need keybound next to my fubar, am I not allowed to do that either Ellipsis? |
| 23:49.20 | Ellipsis | which is worse, because it goes against the user's expectations that things will work the same all the time |
| 23:49.35 | Tuller | wait, is the problem here that fubar is clickable? |
| 23:49.51 | NightHawkTheSane | Tuller: well, there's two problems. |
| 23:49.52 | Nargiddley | Even when i'm intentionaly trying to being up a config, a window appearing on right click is not expected behaviour and I dont like it. |
| 23:49.54 | dashkal | Tuller: The issue is that right-clicking on fubar immediately causes a large dialog to appear |
| 23:50.05 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: how is choosing to have a bar there extremely unrelated to clicking on it? |
| 23:50.22 | silentium | the problem is that fubar opens a (relatively) large config window even in combat if you accidentally right click white space instead of a plugin |
| 23:50.24 | Ellipsis | dashkal: and what's dewdrop? a large dialog you guys never complained aboutu |
| 23:50.26 | Ellipsis | -u |
| 23:50.28 | Tuller | yes, popping up a big dialog shouldn't be something that's easily accidentally done :) |
| 23:50.31 | dashkal | Suggestion: Bring back the right-click menu with two options in it: Config and close |
| 23:50.32 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: If someone is going to mistakenly click somewhere on fubar, they'll mistakenly click regardless of what the spacing between plugins is |
| 23:50.34 | Nargiddley | dewdrop isnt a dialog |
| 23:50.36 | Ellipsis | Tuller: except that it's not |
| 23:50.52 | *** join/#wowace v0dKa (i=v0dKa@xdsl-81-173-183-115.netcologne.de) |
| 23:50.53 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: they won't mistakenly click *in between* plugins, which is what most people are having trouble with |
| 23:50.58 | Ellipsis | you said you click on those huge gaps |
| 23:51.31 | dashkal | Ellipsis: Dewdrop could be cleared with a click on the game-field. An accidental click didn't cause loss of control of the game |
| 23:51.31 | Ellipsis | and I say that's your fault for choosing those huge gaps |
| 23:51.31 | silentium | dewdrop menus block only a fraction of the screen space rock config blocks |
| 23:51.31 | Ellipsis | dashkal: rock config doesn't cause a loss of control, what are you talking about? |
| 23:51.35 | Ellipsis | rock config will instantly go transparent if you mouse off it |
| 23:51.42 | dashkal | Ellipsis: It does for those of us who click on mobs to target them |
| 23:51.47 | Ellipsis | if you accidentally open it, move your mouse, and voila, no problem! |
| 23:52.18 | *** join/#wowace [KzM]Fatalis (i=fatalisd@24-207-251-247.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 23:52.31 | Ellipsis | I really don't see why you guys think this one design decision is worth hating an entire group of addons |
| 23:52.38 | silentium | it was no problem if the config closed on mouseout and you could click "through" that area again |
| 23:52.41 | dashkal | Ellipsis: also, this is the most common reason for me to accidently activate rock: right-click a mob near the top of my screen to start combat |
| 23:52.51 | masanbol | honestly, i think the biggest problem with rock popping up on a right click is that even on high end systems it will cause a lot of load and basically pause the game for a second or two to load the config |
| 23:52.55 | CIA-7 | 03ag 07Ace3 * r53820 10ag_UnitFrames/ (13 files in 11 dirs): ag_UnitFrames: Ace3 branch - All options working in /aguf config window |
| 23:52.58 | zi | hitting escape clears it |
| 23:53.05 | Ellipsis | dashkal k...so move your fubar? change your camera angle? find your target another way? tons of other ways to do what you want :/ |
| 23:53.16 | silentium | who says everyone hates a whole group of addons? it's only about one specific behaviour of fubar that annoys people |
| 23:53.21 | hyperChipmunk | or download fubar2 and go back to happiness |
| 23:53.30 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: It's clearly YOUR FAULT if you always assign everything to USER ERROr, so i'm going to just ignore you. You're a raving ckknight fangirl and no amount of logical arguments will convince you otherwise. |
| 23:53.31 | Ellipsis | silentium: a few people here refuse to use any rock addons because of the rock config window |
| 23:53.34 | NightHawkTheSane | with that, I'm out of this discussion. |
| 23:53.36 | dashkal | Ellipsis: or just stop using the single common problem: fubar + rock |
| 23:53.42 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: I don't. you are not listening to me. |
| 23:53.51 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: you're not listening to ANYONE. |
| 23:54.12 | silentium | Ellipsis: I know, still not a valid reason to generalize it to all people not liking that specific fubar behaviour |
| 23:54.22 | kenlyric | Ellipsis: the problem I can't move past is where you explicitly said you didn't want artificial limitations on addons, and not providing an option on how to open the rock config window is an artificial limitation on a mod. |
| 23:54.23 | Tuller | hrm, the solution would be a fubar config plugin on fubar + making the area lockable, I would imagine |
| 23:54.25 | dashkal | This isnt' a discussion worth participating in. There's only a developer who isn't interested in any use case other than his own. Sad |
| 23:54.27 | kenlyric | you can't have it both ways. |
| 23:54.30 | masanbol | holy crap guys, it's a bunch of code wrapped in files used as a mod for a game. get over it, it isn't as big a deal as you're making it out to be |
| 23:54.39 | Ellipsis | wow, ok, way too many people yelling at me at once |
| 23:54.39 | NightHawkTheSane | Tuller: that would actually be my solution |
| 23:55.03 | NightHawkTheSane | removing the config window on right-clicking on the bar, and adding a fubar icon that can be placed like any other plugin |
| 23:55.09 | ag` | aestil, there is no addon named "Ace3UF". No addons got the library in their name |
| 23:55.16 | Ellipsis | kenlyric: I never said that an option shouldn't be provided |
| 23:55.18 | aestil | i know that ag. |
| 23:55.26 | aestil | i was speaking generally |
| 23:55.29 | Ellipsis | I just said you guys aren't justified in hating rock because of this one little thing |
| 23:55.34 | kenlyric | you said an option wasn't needed based on your use case that you never accidentally open it. |
| 23:55.35 | dashkal | NightHawkTheSane, Tuller. That's actually a good idea. I wonder how difficult that woul dbe |
| 23:55.42 | aestil | did you decided to call it agUF after all? |
| 23:55.48 | Ellipsis | kenlyric: I said that *I* don't need an option. I'm all for more options. |
| 23:55.50 | dashkal | Ellipsis: I do not hate rock, I hate only that it takes up my game field on a single right-click |
| 23:55.50 | NightHawkTheSane | dashkal: easy enough that a monkey could do it. |
| 23:55.55 | kenlyric | Ace3UF would get ag in a lot of trouble :) |
| 23:56.02 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: you're putting words in peoples mouths. I never expressed global dislike of rock. |
| 23:56.05 | aestil | wow, my grammer wasn't great there. |
| 23:56.16 | aestil | did you decide to call it agUF then after all? |
| 23:56.21 | silentium | Ellipsis: I never said I hated rock, I actually use multiple rock addons even if there are backported ace2 versions... please stop generalizing already |
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| 23:56.43 | ag` | aestil, it's called aguf until I give it a name, which I will at some point |
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| 23:56.50 | aestil | ok. |
| 23:56.56 | NightHawkTheSane | I dislike particular -behaviors- of rock, and a few rock-based addons (where behaviors in those addons are direectly related to rock), but that's not a global dislike or hate. |
| 23:56.59 | aestil | will it be using dogtag 2.0 was my question ag` |
| 23:57.03 | Ellipsis | silentium: I'm directing that at people like nevcairiel and hyperChipmunk who are advocating getting rid of an entire addon framework because they don't like one design decision |
| 23:57.04 | _rane | is there an addon to make certain items impossible to sell? |
| 23:57.12 | Tuller | unit frames... |
| 23:57.18 | Tuller | call it ufUF |
| 23:57.38 | NightHawkTheSane | Ellipsis: well, if you dislike something enough for it to completely ruin your user experience, you're pretty well justified in not using the entire thing. |
| 23:57.41 | silentium | Ellipsis: that's not the point of this discussion about a fubar behaviour at all, so it's just a personal flame... stop it please |
| 23:57.49 | hyperChipmunk | mostly because it comes up at the worst times from places completely unasked-for, which is a bad decision overall |
| 23:57.54 | ag` | aestil, no idea yet. Currently I wrote a new system for the branch version, which is quite powerful but more simple than dogtag |
| 23:58.06 | nevcairiel | Ellipsis: nah we're advocating splitting it off from #wowace to #wowrock :P |
| 23:58.09 | Ellipsis | NightHawkTheSane: I agree. if you can't stand rock, don't use it |
| 23:58.11 | Tuller | ag`: what's the syntax look like? :) |
| 23:58.20 | ag` | Tuller, it's not a syntax :P |
| 23:58.27 | NightHawkTheSane | nevcairiel: lol. :D |
| 23:58.36 | aestil | nevcairiel: you said that all of rock should be removed, except for some babble, which should be proted. |
| 23:58.38 | Tuller | hehe |
| 23:58.39 | dashkal | Ellipsis: Would you consider giving us an alternative way to invoke the rock dialog? |
| 23:58.51 | Tuller | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:58.52 | nevcairiel | aestil: no, that was vhaarr :p |
| 23:58.53 | Orionshock | aestil: vhaarr said that |
| 23:59.14 | aestil | whatever. the whole things seemed pretty much against the anti drama idea. |
| 23:59.18 | aestil | its really irrelevant. |
| 23:59.34 | silentium | wtb Fubar_BlankspaceFu, gives you empty space on your fubar that doesnt open rock config in combat ;D |
| 23:59.36 | aestil | people are so fucking in arms over such tiny things. |
| 23:59.42 | dashkal | Ellipsis: I have two suggestions: a double-click or a right-click context menu with a single option |
| 23:59.49 | nevcairiel | but vhaarr has a point, you cant just run around and increment the major of all libraries you find, regardless of the authors plans for it |
| 23:59.58 | aestil | silentium: how about just an option that prevents rock config from opening in combat? |
| 23:59.58 | Orionshock | aestil: this is wow, have u read the general forums yet? |
| 23:59.59 | dashkal | Ellipsis: the fubar plugin idea was a good one as well |
