IRC log for #wowace on 20080905

`00:00.08`	`NivFreak`	`KriLL3: so what are you complaining about`
`00:00.10`	`NivFreak`	`that your pve dps spec isn't pvp viable?`
`00:00.15`	`*** join/#wowace Jagannath (i=Jagannat@adsl-75-55-166-48.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net)`
`00:00.17`	`KriLL3`	`...`
`00:00.21`	`Carancu`	`Krille3: ferals are good tanks, just different.`
`00:00.29`	`KriLL3`	`feral is a pve spec? since when?`
`00:00.43`	`KriLL3`	`Carancu: I meant not with the same spec/gear`
`00:00.46`	`NivFreak`	`since always?`
`00:00.47`	`Wraithan`	`l`
`00:00.48`	`NivFreak`	`:P`
`00:01.01`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: you're a scary man`
`00:01.01`	`Megalon`	`if you wanna pvp, specc lifebloom :P`
`00:01.05`	`NivFreak`	`when has feral been a pvp sepc? :P`
`00:01.08`	`NivFreak`	`spec even`
`00:01.13`	`KriLL3`	`pre TBC`
`00:01.15`	`Carancu`	`pve dps specc when balance is more of a dpsspecc? :P`
`00:01.18`	`NivFreak`	`oh god`
`00:01.19`	`NivFreak`	`classic`
`00:01.26`	`NivFreak`	`you want to go back to worthless druids eh?`
`00:01.26`	`NivFreak`	`:P`
`00:01.34`	`KriLL3`	`they were better than their current state`
`00:01.41`	`NivFreak`	`in... beta?`
`00:01.50`	`KriLL3`	`pre TBC`
`00:02.09`	`KriLL3`	`resilience ruined any feral dmg scaling`
`00:02.10`	`NivFreak`	`wait, are you trying to say pre-TBC druids were better than post-TBC?`
`00:02.16`	`KriLL3`	`yeah`
`00:02.22`	`NivFreak`	`you're pure-pvp aren't you`
`00:02.29`	`Primer`	`Kody: curse.com still giving beta keys to authors? I submitted a request today.`
`00:02.33`	`KriLL3`	`you're a pure pve aren't you`
`00:02.38`	`NivFreak`	`nope`
`00:02.46`	`Primer`	`My lock is pure pvp!`
`00:02.55`	`NivFreak`	`my warrior/priest/hunter all have full pvp gear`
`00:03.01`	`NivFreak`	`s2+`
`00:03.08`	`NivFreak`	`well, the warrior doesn't have a S2+ weapon`
`00:03.10`	`KriLL3`	`how good for you, ezmode`
`00:03.12`	`NivFreak`	`I use jihnrock`
`00:03.33`	`Primer`	`I can't get a slot in a raid if my life depended on it...especially since it'd mean me not coming on my priest, which is almost always the top healer`
`00:03.36`	`NivFreak`	`ok, continue to spin the point`
`00:03.37`	`SunTsu`	`KriLL3: They were better? In what way?`
`00:03.46`	`NivFreak`	`my question was, how can you say that druids are worse off overall in TBC`
`00:03.51`	`KriLL3`	`SunTsu: scaling, viability`
`00:03.53`	`NivFreak`	`they are much more viable class in almost every way`
`00:04.03`	`Carancu`	`scaling is far better in BC than before.`
`00:04.04`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: not from where I'm standing`
`00:04.05`	`NivFreak`	`and when you argue that, I asked if you were pvp only`
`00:04.08`	`SunTsu`	`KriLL3: Please, be concrete`
`00:04.12`	`KriLL3`	`Carancu: that's a blatant lie and you know it`
`00:04.14`	`NivFreak`	`because yes, being a pvp only feral druid...`
`00:04.35`	`KriLL3`	`even blizzard admits feral currently doesn't scale`
`00:04.54`	`NivFreak`	`which is what they are working on in wrath`
`00:05.01`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: I don't care if we're somehow more viable in pve content, I don't partake of that`
`00:05.02`	`NivFreak`	`like many other classes`
`00:05.15`	`NivFreak`	`KriLL3: feral druids are steal a force to be dealt with in non-arena pvp`
`00:05.20`	`NivFreak`	`s/steal/still/`
`00:05.22`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: they caused the problem in the first place, I very much doubt they'll do a proper job of fixing it`
`00:05.23`	`Primer`	`still`
`00:05.28`	`Primer`	`heh`
`00:05.34`	`NivFreak`	`KriLL3: then you should game quit now`
`00:05.36`	`NivFreak`	`give up`
`00:05.43`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: bgs aren't anything anyone bothers with anymore, the arena is the only pvp`
`00:06.01`	`NivFreak`	`I have more fun in isle pvp than I do in arena`
`00:06.10`	`KriLL3`	`saying you're viable in bgs is like saying you look handsome next to bums`
`00:06.26`	`Primer`	`NivFreak: I love eating savory deviate delight and doing dailies on the isle`
`00:06.30`	`NivFreak`	`Primer: hahaa`
`00:06.33`	`Larana`	`I've never stepped foot in an Arena...`
`00:06.34`	`NivFreak`	`full S3 WHAT`
`00:06.40`	`NivFreak`	`or sorry now, full S4`
`00:06.48`	`Primer`	`NivFreak: horde think I'm some noob and attack me, only to get pwned`
`00:07.00`	`NivFreak`	`we get some great group pvp going on the isle`
`00:07.06`	`NivFreak`	`with some of the top end guilds on both sides`
`00:07.06`	`Primer`	`yup`
`00:07.09`	`NivFreak`	`it's a lot of fun`
`00:07.26`	`NivFreak`	`I've stopped arenas at this point though`
`00:07.29`	`NivFreak`	`it's such a grind to me`
`00:07.33`	`Primer`	`I'm about to`
`00:07.39`	`Primer`	`I can't make any headway`
`00:07.47`	`KriLL3`	`I like killing groups solo on QD`
`00:07.51`	`Carancu`	`heh, I felt that way back in s1 NivFreak ;)`
`00:07.53`	`Primer`	`I've barely made it to 1700 once with a druid (on my lock)`
`00:08.00`	`NivFreak`	`well, I haven't really played since s4 launched`
`00:08.01`	`Primer`	`and it still took forever`
`00:08.04`	`*** part/#wowace Pkekyo\| (n=bsm89mod@062016163025.customer.alfanett.no)`
`00:08.19`	`NivFreak`	`the 15 min+ queues, point selling teams, and GCD change really took a lot of fun out of it for me`
`00:08.28`	`KriLL3`	`I can't deal that much dmg in mostly S4 gear but I can run away, recoup and then run back again and hit em when they're licking their wounds, that's the kind of PVP I'm relegated to`
`00:08.37`	`*** join/#wowace Pkekyo\| (n=bsm89mod@062016163025.customer.alfanett.no)`
`00:08.44`	`NivFreak`	`KriLL3: perhaps you should gear more aggressivly then`
`00:08.46`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: since when are there queus?`
`00:08.50`	`NivFreak`	`but yes, feral druids are weak in arena`
`00:08.52`	`Primer`	`on my realm arenas pop instantly in all team types in the lower brackets`
`00:09.01`	`NivFreak`	`KriLL3: 2s queues pre-s3 end`
`00:09.03`	`NivFreak`	`on bg9`
`00:09.16`	`NivFreak`	`15min+ queues`
`00:09.17`	`NivFreak`	`any time of day`
`00:09.22`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: as said our dmg output doesn't scale with gear, only result you get from gearing in all +agi/dmg/crit gear is you die quicker`
`00:09.44`	`NivFreak`	`uh`
`00:09.46`	`Primer`	`Arena really seems to be slanted toward melee`
`00:09.47`	`NivFreak`	`your damage does scale with gaer`
`00:09.48`	`NivFreak`	`gear`
`00:09.52`	`NivFreak`	`it needs to scale better perhaps`
`00:09.55`	`NivFreak`	`but it DOES scale`
`00:09.56`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: 20s queues here, except the afternoon/evening the last day`
`00:10.10`	`NivFreak`	`KriLL3: they are instant in bg9 now as well`
`00:10.11`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: barely`
`00:10.27`	`NivFreak`	`Primer: tell that to the resto druids :)`
`00:10.46`	`NivFreak`	`or RMP`
`00:10.54`	`KriLL3`	`trust me, if you ever played a feral druid and upgraded your gear extensively you'd notice you don't do that much more dmg`
`00:11.08`	`KriLL3`	`and a lot of our attacks doesn't even scale`
`00:11.15`	`Carancu`	`uhm.`
`00:11.17`	`NivFreak`	`KriLL3: there's not that much in upgrades between arena gear seasons`
`00:11.22`	`KriLL3`	`our bleeds for example got a fixed dmg`
`00:11.28`	`Carancu`	`nope, they scale`
`00:11.31`	`KriLL3`	`no`
`00:11.48`	`NivFreak`	`umm`
`00:11.48`	`Carancu`	`rake, rip, pounce, they all scale based on AP.`
`00:11.50`	`NivFreak`	`yes`
`00:11.52`	`NivFreak`	`they scale`
`00:11.57`	`NivFreak`	`they have a fixed base dmg`
`00:12.00`	`NivFreak`	`like every other ability`
`00:12.01`	`KriLL3`	`that's why they tick for less than 200?`
`00:12.06`	`Carancu`	`200?`
`00:12.18`	`Carancu`	`my rip ticks 2-4 times that.`
`00:12.32`	`NivFreak`	`Here's the formula to determine how much damage Rip deals at level 70 after the attack power bonus.`
`00:12.35`	`NivFreak`	`5 Combo Points: 1092 + .24*AP`
`00:12.37`	`Wobin`	`you know`
`00:12.38`	`NivFreak`	`4 Combo Points: 894 + .24*AP`
`00:12.40`	`NivFreak`	`3 Combo Points: 696 + .18*AP`
`00:12.43`	`NivFreak`	`2 Combo Points: 498 + .12*AP`
`00:12.45`	`NivFreak`	`1 Combo Points: 300 + .06*AP`
`00:12.46`	`NivFreak`	`no scaling there!`
`00:12.47`	`NivFreak`	`:P`
`00:12.48`	`Wobin`	`they should completely separate arena mechanics from the rest of the game`
`00:12.50`	`NivFreak`	`Last edited by`
`00:12.59`	`KriLL3`	`I just did the math, my 3000 ap ads 180 dmg to each rake tick`
`00:13.10`	`KriLL3`	`3000*0.06`
`00:13.16`	`KriLL3`	`+108`
`00:13.24`	`KriLL3`	`288`
`00:13.35`	`Carancu`	`rake... I havn't had that one on my actionbar for a long long time.`
`00:13.36`	`KriLL3`	`I do a third of that dmg naked`
`00:13.50`	`NivFreak`	`why would you rake`
`00:13.52`	`Wobin`	`KriLL3: That's what -she- said!`
`00:13.52`	`NivFreak`	`if you have mangle`
`00:13.53`	`KriLL3`	`Carancu: I got it on my bar, but just to keep rogues from using vanish`
`00:14.00`	`NivFreak`	`so`
`00:14.02`	`NivFreak`	`I have rend too`
`00:14.06`	`Dashkal`	`WoW 2 Arena :p Remove them into their own game. Remove levels :p`
`00:14.10`	`NivFreak`	`but I don't look at it's dmg`
`00:14.28`	`Wraithan`	`Dashkal: make it like guild wars!`
`00:14.34`	`NivFreak`	`it's also damage that isn't mitigated by armor`
`00:14.35`	`NivFreak`	`heh`
`00:14.45`	`NivFreak`	`but yea..`
`00:14.49`	`NivFreak`	`rake is not a dmg ability`
`00:14.52`	`Wraithan`	`I agree, remove arena from the game`
`00:15.00`	`Wobin`	`Dashkal: that way they can futz around with class balance without affecting everyone else =`
`00:15.10`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: blizzard has put a heavy emphasis on bleed dps`
`00:15.22`	`Dashkal`	`Exactly`
`00:15.33`	`Wobin`	`I really like the synergy between a feral tank and a hemo rogue`
`00:15.42`	`kadrahil`	`ugh`
`00:15.47`	`kadrahil`	`got a pitbull error about something or other`
`00:15.49`	`kadrahil`	`http://ace.pastey.net/95439`
`00:15.56`	`kadrahil`	`just sitting in hyjal configuring stuff`
`00:16.00`	`Wobin`	`ck has just gone on a date`
`00:16.09`	`Wobin`	`so post a patch =P`
`00:16.14`	`NivFreak`	`pounce -> mangle -> shred win`
`00:16.16`	`NivFreak`	`:P`
`00:16.32`	`Wobin`	`druids have a win button?`
`00:16.35`	`Wobin`	`must get it at 70 =P`
`00:16.51`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: too bad you can't remove more than half their hp with a full rotation, with crits and all your stuns even bash used`
`00:17.03`	`NivFreak`	`cry me a river`
`00:17.07`	`NivFreak`	`I can't on my warrior either`
`00:17.19`	`KriLL3`	`a rogue can, and a cat is supposed to be comparable to a rogue`
`00:17.30`	`Carancu`	`not really, not in that pure way.`
`00:17.33`	`KriLL3`	`a warrior can stunlock you from now to judgment day, don't get me started`
`00:17.39`	`NivFreak`	`KriLL3: hahahahahahaa`
`00:17.42`	`NivFreak`	`no`
`00:17.45`	`NivFreak`	`now you're just lying`
`00:17.58`	`NivFreak`	`the BEST case`
`00:18.05`	`NivFreak`	`you have charge stun, intercept stun, mace stun`
`00:18.15`	`Wraithan`	`scrubheard stun`
`00:18.20`	`NivFreak`	`aka mace stun`
`00:18.33`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: no? intercept stun, macestun, war stomp, intercept stun, stomherald, macestun`
`00:18.34`	`NivFreak`	`I did plenty of arena with a stormhearld`
`00:18.38`	`NivFreak`	`swords are better`
`00:18.50`	`NivFreak`	`KriLL3: so a tauren warrior`
`00:18.55`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: no warrior pvps without a mace`
`00:18.57`	`NivFreak`	`with a stormherld`
`00:19.01`	`NivFreak`	`that clearly all warriors are using`
`00:19.05`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: 70% of them are, the rest are orcs so you can't stun em`
`00:19.10`	`NivFreak`	`especially in the 2000+ rating bracet, am I right?`
`00:19.24`	`KriLL3`	`I'm 1600~ I have yet to see a warrior without a mace`
`00:19.28`	`NivFreak`	`guess what, they are using s4 swords`
`00:19.39`	`NivFreak`	`and which battlegroup are you on?`
`00:19.56`	`NivFreak`	`either way 1600 is...`
`00:19.58`	`KriLL3`	`Rampage`
`00:20.01`	`NivFreak`	`not a good representation`
`00:20.14`	`KriLL3`	`NivFreak: it is if you're feral, damn hard climb to get there`
`00:20.25`	`NivFreak`	`feral/rogue 2s are doing fine`
`00:21.36`	`KriLL3`	`no`
`00:21.51`	`*** join/#wowace Mera_ (n=ecarlat@69.244.203-77.rev.gaoland.net)`
`00:22.31`	`CIA-51`	`03chuanhsing * r81375 10FuBar_LootTypeFu/ (FuBar_LootTypeFu.toc LootTypeFuLocale-zhTW.lua):`
`00:22.31`	`CIA-51`	`FuBar_LootTypeFu:`
`00:22.31`	`CIA-51`	`- add zhTW locale`
`00:24.13`	`Ackis`	`zomg AoC is on STEAM`
`00:26.01`	`CIA-51`	`03chuanhsing * r81376 10MageAnnounce/Locale-zhTW.lua:`
`00:26.01`	`CIA-51`	`MageAnnounce:`
`00:26.01`	`CIA-51`	`- update zhTW locale`
`00:26.07`	`KriLL3`	`shit goes with shit`
`00:29.08`	`CIA-51`	`03chuanhsing * r81377 10CraftList2/localization.lua:`
`00:29.09`	`CIA-51`	`CraftList2:`
`00:29.11`	`CIA-51`	`- add zhTW locale`
`00:30.09`	`Ackis`	`why wasn't it released on itunes then?`
`00:31.03`	`KriLL3`	`noting can be released on itunes, it's not a internet delivery platform`
`00:31.12`	`Ackis`	`makes a swooshing noise`
`00:33.20`	`Larana`	`I don't think Ackis was thinking iTunes was a 'torent', just that iTunes would release the content at the time the original content was released.`
`00:33.40`	`CIA-51`	`03chuanhsing * r81378 10TradeskillInfo/TradeskillData-zhTW.lua:`
`00:33.40`	`CIA-51`	`TradeskillInfo:`
`00:33.40`	`CIA-51`	`- update zhTW locale`
`00:37.54`	`*** part/#wowace AbsoRayne (n=chatzill@pool-71-251-128-122.cmdnnj.east.verizon.net)`
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`00:41.25`	`Elgren`	`I have a problem Dashkal`
`00:42.01`	`Elgren`	`I identify with dtframestack the pittbull raid frames to be sorted by "PitBullCluster1"`
`00:42.12`	`Elgren`	`1 beeing raidgroup 1`
`00:42.32`	`Elgren`	`when I set parent frame on my kg_panel to PitBullCluster1`
`00:42.45`	`Elgren`	`it disappears, and wont show when the pitbull frame is active`
`00:42.53`	`Elgren`	`what can be wrong? anyone plz help`
`00:45.21`	`Elgren`	`I need help :/ one of you hotshots give me a hand`
`00:46.00`	`Groktar`	`lops off Elgren's head and dances on his corpse`
`00:46.15`	`Elgren`	`Groktar :/`
`00:48.14`	`Groktar`	`demands the "mind blowing" thunderclap crits`
`00:53.05`	`Elgren`	`Ok, another question`
`00:53.13`	`Groktar`	`briefs.`
`00:53.16`	`Elgren`	`I have classicons as tga files.`
`00:53.27`	`Elgren`	`I would like to add them into my pitbull unitframes`
`00:53.37`	`Elgren`	`anyone know dogtag to link in a tga icon?`
`00:57.53`	`*** join/#wowace omniwolf (n=Miranda@c122-106-179-240.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au)`
`00:59.08`	`*** join/#wowace topsub (n=josh@cpe-069-132-181-160.carolina.res.rr.com)`
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`00:59.27`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v WobWork] by ChanServ`
`00:59.34`	`CIA-51`	`03pericles 07WotLK * r81379 10ShockAndAwe/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)`
`00:59.34`	`CIA-51`	`ShockAndAwe: -`
`00:59.34`	`CIA-51`	`Version 2.13`
`00:59.34`	`CIA-51`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:59.34`	`CIA-51`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:59.35`	`CIA-51`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:59.37`	`CIA-51`	`<PROTECTED>`
`01:01.23`	`*** join/#wowace Wobin (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au)`
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`01:02.17`	`Ellipsis`	`Elgren: [Icon(path\to\icon)]`
`01:02.32`	`Ellipsis`	`whoops, the path should be in quotes`
`01:04.23`	`Elgren`	`yep`
`01:04.27`	`Elgren`	`I found it in the dogtag help`
`01:05.01`	`Elgren`	`thanks alot Ellipsis`
`01:05.05`	`Ellipsis`	`kk ^-^ let me know if you have any other questions :)`
`01:05.10`	`Elgren`	`youve helped me alot over this past few weeks`
`01:05.18`	`Ellipsis`	`I try`
`01:06.09`	`*** join/#wowace WobWork (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au)`
`01:06.09`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v WobWork] by ChanServ`
`01:07.57`	`Elgren`	`Oh`
`01:08.00`	`Elgren`	`Im so stupid`
`01:08.07`	`Elgren`	`Ellipsis I need you again :)`
`01:09.07`	`Ellipsis`	`sure, what's up?`
`01:09.12`	`*** join/#wowace fridgid (n=fridgid@75.76.14.158)`
`01:09.53`	`Elgren`	`Ah`
`01:09.55`	`Elgren`	`damn`
`01:09.58`	`Elgren`	`I have no idea`
`01:10.03`	`Elgren`	`Its the icons again`
`01:10.05`	`Ellipsis`	`o.O`
`01:10.09`	`Elgren`	`sure I am able to link them`
`01:10.29`	`Elgren`	`but now, I need to be able to make the mages get the mage icon, and the druids the druid icon :D`
`01:10.46`	`Ellipsis`	`the easiest way to do that is if the icons follow a naming scheme that includes the class name`
`01:10.55`	`Elgren`	`they do`
`01:11.01`	`Elgren`	`I have druid.tga etc.`
`01:11.32`	`Ellipsis`	`then just do [Icon("path\to\" .. Class)]`
`01:11.58`	`Ellipsis`	`wow, too much lua for me`
`01:12.03`	`Ellipsis`	`[Icon("path\to\" Class)]`
`01:13.50`	`Elgren`	`aha`
`01:13.55`	`Elgren`	`thanks Ellipsis ill give it a try`
`01:14.42`	`*** join/#wowace Jagannath (i=Jagannat@adsl-75-55-166-48.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net)`
`01:17.35`	`*** join/#wowace fridgid (n=fridgid@75.76.14.158)`
`01:18.22`	`*** join/#wowace Shirik (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik)`
`01:18.22`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v Shirik] by ChanServ`
`01:19.14`	`Elgren`	`hum`
`01:19.15`	`Elgren`	`Ellipsis`
`01:19.20`	`Elgren`	`Im doing something wrong`
`01:19.23`	`Elgren`	`synthax error`
`01:20.35`	`Elgren`	`in fact`
`01:20.56`	`Ellipsis`	`hrm, what's the tag?`
`01:21.01`	`Elgren`	`I cant get the [Icon("<path>)] synthax to work at all`
`01:21.10`	`Elgren`	`im using ["Interface\AddOns\ClassIcons\Icons\DRUID.tga":Icon]`
`01:21.13`	`Elgren`	`that works`
`01:21.16`	`Ellipsis`	`oh, you might need \\ instead of \`
`01:22.19`	`Elgren`	`so if I type [Icon("Interface\AddOns\ClassIcons\Icons\CLASS")]`
`01:22.22`	`Elgren`	`thats what you mean?`
`01:22.38`	`Elgren`	`or how does that "class"ification transformation work? :D`
`01:22.41`	`CIA-51`	`03daviesh * r81380 10AtlasLoot/ (3 files in 3 dirs):`
`01:22.41`	`CIA-51`	`AtlasLoot:`
`01:22.42`	`CIA-51`	`- v4.06.04 released`
`01:23.06`	`Ellipsis`	`[Icon("Interface\\AddOns\\ClassIcons\\Icons\\" Class)]`
`01:23.33`	`Ellipsis`	`the space between the folder path and the Class tag will cause them to be concatenated, resulting in the full path of the appropriate icon`
`01:25.31`	`Elgren`	`well`
`01:25.42`	`Elgren`	`pitbull just filters out my double slash when I save`
`01:25.56`	`Elgren`	`and I get synthax error`
`01:26.03`	`Ellipsis`	`odd`
`01:26.22`	`Elgren`	`how about`
`01:27.14`	`Elgren`	`["Interface\AddOns\ClassIcons\Icons\" Class:Icon]`
`01:27.15`	`Elgren`	`?`
`01:27.28`	`Ellipsis`	`you'd need () around both the string and Class`
`01:27.59`	`Ellipsis`	`either way the problem is that it's parsing the \" as an escaped quote, so your string never ends`
`01:29.05`	`Elgren`	`[("Interface\AddOns\ClassIcons\Icons\" Class):Icon] synthax error`
`01:29.06`	`Elgren`	`:(`
`01:29.49`	`Elgren`	`aha I understand what you are saying now`
`01:29.51`	`Elgren`	`hum`
`01:29.54`	`Elgren`	`how to fix that`
`01:30.09`	`Elgren`	`maybe I dont need the last slash`
`01:30.21`	`Ellipsis`	`you do`
`01:30.27`	`Ellipsis`	`it's a dogtag bug`
`01:30.35`	`Elgren`	`lol`
`01:30.36`	`Ellipsis`	`and ck's not around to ping about it`
`01:30.38`	`Elgren`	`[("Interface\AddOns\ClassIcons\Icons" Class):Icon]`
`01:30.42`	`Elgren`	`I typed that`
`01:30.45`	`Elgren`	`no end slash`
`01:30.51`	`Elgren`	`and now everyone in my raid is a druid`
`01:30.52`	`Elgren`	`wtf`
`01:31.18`	`Elgren`	`So`
`01:31.28`	`Elgren`	`ive atleast helped to find a bug tonight?`
`01:31.37`	`Ellipsis`	`yeah`
`01:31.53`	`*** join/#wowace WobWork (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au)`
`01:31.53`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v WobWork] by ChanServ`
`01:32.36`	`Elgren`	`no shortcuts we could use?`
`01:32.40`	`WobWork`	`no`
`01:32.47`	`CIA-51`	`03Mera-92869 * r28 10OneCompanion/ (11 files in 4 dirs):`
`01:32.47`	`CIA-51`	`OneCompanion:`
`01:32.47`	`CIA-51`	`-GetCVar("UberTooltips") compatibility`
`01:32.47`	`CIA-51`	`-scale option for breanni button`
`01:33.22`	`Elgren`	`Greeting WobWork ^^`
`01:35.41`	`Elgren`	`Ellipsis, last thing for tonight. Since I know you know pitbull very well`
`01:36.22`	`Elgren`	`If I want to parent a kgpanel to a pitbull raidgroup. Im doing right to use PitbullCluster1 as framename for raidgroup 1 yes?`
`01:43.39`	`*** join/#wowace Marticus (n=demart01@74-138-203-167.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`01:44.16`	`Marticus`	`good evening`
`01:44.27`	`Ellipsis`	`Elgren: there's no good way to do that`
`01:44.39`	`*** join/#wowace fridgid (n=fridgid@75.76.14.158)`
`01:44.46`	`Elgren`	`parent a kgpanel to a pitbull frame?`
`01:44.46`	`Ellipsis`	`the pitbull frames are created dynamically, so there's no way to guarantee any particular frame name will be tied to raid group 1`
`01:45.13`	`Ellipsis`	`cluster1 will probably be raid group 1....unless you were in a party before joining the raid`
`01:45.16`	`*** join/#wowace fridgid (n=fridgid@75.76.14.158)`
`01:45.23`	`Elgren`	`arg`
`01:45.27`	`Elgren`	`thats disapointing`
`01:47.04`	`Marticus`	`where may I find updates to my favorite ace addons now that files.wowace.com isn't being used?`
`01:47.12`	`Ellipsis`	`it's not?`
`01:47.23`	`Marticus`	`well that is my impression`
`01:47.28`	`Elgren`	`Marticus you can always download the updater for easy updates`
`01:47.37`	`Elgren`	`WAU on the left menu from the mainpage`
`01:47.40`	`Marticus`	`more addons appear to be more outdated every day`
`01:47.50`	`Ellipsis`	`outdated according to what?`
`01:47.57`	`nocts`	`OMG WHAT IS THIS BULLSHIT ABOUT THEM PUSHING BACK THE FIREFLY MMO FOR A BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER MMO`
`01:48.00`	`Marticus`	`wau shows the date`
`01:48.02`	`*** join/#wowace Legorol (n=legorol@stud-nat-blk12.trin.cam.ac.uk)`
`01:48.11`	`Ellipsis`	`don't you think authors might be paying less attention to live addons in order to focus on wotlk-compatible development?`
`01:48.12`	`WobWork`	`rofl`
`01:48.15`	`Marticus`	`>30 >60 >90 et cetera`
`01:48.16`	`WobWork`	`btvs mmo?`
`01:48.17`	`Ellipsis`	`or did you want all your addons to die on release day`
`01:48.49`	`Elgren`	`Marticus I think if it isnt in the updater, there is nowhere else either.`
`01:48.57`	`Marticus`	`I had not thought of that`
`01:49.11`	`Marticus`	`one of the addons announced upon login that theirs can be found at curse`
`01:49.21`	`Elgren`	`no`
`01:49.25`	`Ellipsis`	`then that one can probably be found on curse`
`01:49.33`	`Ellipsis`	`most addons haven't moved`
`01:49.40`	`Marticus`	`I figured it was up to the authors, but I also read in the announcement that it would go to curseforge interface, to which I have yet to find links`
`01:49.41`	`WobWork`	`there's no mass migration`
`01:49.48`	`Marticus`	`okay`
`01:49.50`	`WobWork`	`it hasn't been setup yet`
`01:49.58`	`Ellipsis`	`yeah, that transition is still in the works`
`01:49.59`	`CIA-51`	`03Octane666 07WotLK * r81381 10SpamMeNot/ (gui.lua player.lua):`
`01:49.59`	`CIA-51`	`SpamMeNot:`
`01:49.59`	`CIA-51`	`- Working Report and Innocent buttons on spam GUI.`
`01:50.32`	`Marticus`	`well, I'll need to fall back on a few plugins as they appear to be borked, like celular`
`01:50.42`	`Marticus`	`anyway, thank you for the info`
`01:50.57`	`Elgren`	`Marticus`
`01:51.01`	`Marticus`	`Elgren`
`01:51.02`	`Elgren`	`into the sunset you go`
`01:51.30`	`Marticus`	`I think I'll make a home here`
`01:51.46`	`WobWork`	`I'm reading all your lines as if read out loud in a received british accent`
`01:51.51`	`Elgren`	`We havent got food here, not for jolly jumper`
`01:52.22`	`Ellipsis`	`backs away slowly from WobWork`
`01:52.35`	`Marticus`	`sorry mate, I'm not british :)`
`01:52.44`	`Ellipsis`	`maybe you should be!`
`01:52.53`	`WobWork`	`I figured, but your grammar is better than most on the interwebs`
`01:52.55`	`Elgren`	`Marticus`
`01:52.59`	`Marticus`	`Elgren`
`01:53.02`	`Elgren`	`sounds like an old spartan`
`01:53.16`	`WobWork`	`He'd be pretty old by now`
`01:53.21`	`Marticus`	`indeed`
`01:53.24`	`nocts`	`WobWork:`
`01:53.31`	`WobWork`	`nocts:`
`01:53.38`	`Marticus`	`look what I started`
`01:53.40`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts:`
`01:53.45`	`nocts`	`johnboy:`
`01:53.48`	`Elgren`	`WobWork`
`01:53.52`	`Elgren`	`fix my dogtag bug!`
`01:53.56`	`WobWork`	`pft`
`01:54.01`	`WobWork`	`like I'd touch Rock =P`
`01:54.07`	`Ellipsis`	`it's not rock.`
`01:54.17`	`Ellipsis`	`dogtag has no framework requirement`
`01:54.23`	`WobWork`	`sorry, I have an allergic reaction to a lot of ck's coding`
`01:54.31`	`WobWork`	`I come out in a terrible rash =(`
`01:54.36`	`Ellipsis`	`I hear those can be controlled with medication ;)`
`01:54.42`	`*** join/#wowace Shirik\|Ecole (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik)`
`01:54.42`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v Shirik\|Ecole] by ChanServ`
`01:54.56`	`WobWork`	`gets the steroidal cream`
`01:54.58`	`nocts`	`Whoa, we was just talking about my anal rash from Ellipsis's moustache O.o`
`01:55.03`	`nocts`	`Crazy how rashes spread.`
`01:55.04`	`Ellipsis`	`...what?`
`01:55.11`	`nocts`	`I didn't realise cross-rash protocol was irc implimented yet.`
`01:55.12`	`nocts`	`neat.`
`01:55.26`	`nocts`	`How WobWork, let's rush our rashes together.`
`01:55.32`	`Ellipsis`	`I'm going to pretend I was never part of this conversation`
`01:55.33`	`Ellipsis`	`y'all have fun`
`01:55.38`	`WobWork`	`DCC blocks nocts`
`01:55.42`	`nocts`	`lol`
`01:56.09`	`nocts`	`The irc equivalent to a condom.`
`01:56.32`	`Ellipsis`	`I suppose /ignore == abstinence, then?`
`01:56.41`	`Groktar`	`opens up his ports to nocts`
`01:56.45`	`Groktar`	`moans suggestively`
`01:56.49`	`nocts`	`injects his worm.`
`01:56.49`	`Ellipsis`	`at least with DCC blocks you can still chat without the viruses :)`
`01:56.50`	`Elgren`	`Ellipsis, you think this is a bug that will be fixed?`
`01:56.58`	`Ellipsis`	`Elgren: if you can get a hold of ck, yeah`
`01:57.11`	`Ellipsis`	`he's usually pretty good about those, as long as he's not busy with something else`
`01:57.33`	`WobWork`	`like his dates! =)`
`01:57.36`	`Groktar`	`ckk stirred early, when i threated to spam him with my bad C code`
`01:57.42`	`Groktar`	`*stirred earlier`
`01:58.16`	`Ellipsis`	`stirs Groktar`
`01:59.07`	`Marticus`	`sigh`
`01:59.54`	`Groktar`	`recoils`
`01:59.57`	`Groktar`	`omg cold hands`
`02:01.08`	`*** join/#wowace Matrix110\| (i=Matrix11@pD957C722.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`02:01.19`	`*** join/#wowace ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight)`
`02:01.19`	`*** mode/#wowace [+o ckknight] by ChanServ`
`02:02.00`	`Elgren`	`Is this the guy we were talking about Ellipsis?`
`02:02.06`	`Groktar`	`yes`
`02:02.12`	`WobWork`	`checks his rash`
`02:02.16`	`WobWork`	`looks like`
`02:02.19`	`Elgren`	`Alltight`
`02:02.19`	`*** join/#wowace Blime (n=wmurray@c-24-125-170-246.hsd1.va.comcast.net)`
`02:02.28`	`Elgren`	`ckknight, you have a bug to estinguish!`
`02:03.10`	`ckknight`	`o noes`
`02:03.12`	`ckknight`	`what bug?`
`02:03.16`	`Elgren`	`dogtag`
`02:03.28`	`Elgren`	`Im sure ellipsis could explain better`
`02:03.31`	`Elgren`	`but`
`02:04.02`	`Elgren`	`[icon("path/to/" Class)]`
`02:04.08`	`Elgren`	`gives me synthax error`
`02:04.18`	`Elgren`	`ellipsis says due to the /"`
`02:04.37`	`Elgren`	`somehow it doesnt stop the string`
`02:04.39`	`Ellipsis`	`backslashes, actually`
`02:04.45`	`Elgren`	`yes`
`02:04.47`	`Elgren`	`\`
`02:04.48`	`Elgren`	`sorry`
`02:04.53`	`Ellipsis`	`\\ doesn't work (the parser simplifies it to \) and \" acts like an escaped quote`
`02:05.05`	`ckknight`	`hrm.`
`02:05.14`	`ckknight`	`well, I'm on a date`
`02:05.16`	`ckknight`	`so I'll ttyl`
`02:05.18`	`WobWork`	`...`
`02:05.21`	`WobWork`	`log off you fool`
`02:05.26`	`WobWork`	`(geek)`
`02:05.38`	`WobWork`	`and don't log on in the afterglow`
`02:05.43`	`WobWork`	`cause that's just tacky`
`02:06.14`	`Elgren`	`What does he need a date for?`
`02:06.32`	`WobWork`	`booty?`
`02:07.44`	`*** join/#wowace Ellipsis (n=ellipsis@c-71-231-115-214.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`02:12.41`	`smcn`	`Elgren: [16:02:19] <@ckknight> I now consider dating to be an elaborate game where the resultant goal is free maid service`
`02:12.41`	`smcn`	`[16:02:36] <@ckknight> I need my laundry done, so I'm going to be picking someone up tonight and bringing her back to my place`
`02:13.26`	`smcn`	`oh shit, i hope his date didn't see that. lawl`
`02:16.26`	`WobWork`	`if so, he brought it upon himself by having an irc window exposed to his maid =P`
`02:16.31`	`Ellipsis`	`sighs`
`02:17.00`	`WobWork`	`cause that paste probably triggered his nick notification =)`
`02:17.24`	`smcn`	`haha`
`02:18.26`	`smcn`	`brought it upon himself for using his name as his alias ;P`
`02:19.16`	`CIA-51`	`03starlon * r81382 10CombatAlarm/CombatAlarm.lua: CombatAlarm: Let the user decide if they want timestamps or not. Fixes an error.`
`02:22.53`	`*** join/#wowace Wobin (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au)`
`02:22.53`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v Wobin] by ChanServ`
`02:23.15`	`*** join/#wowace liquidzoo (n=drew@ip72-204-215-210.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`02:27.41`	`*** join/#wowace nocts (n=nocts@c-71-231-115-214.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`02:30.49`	`*** join/#wowace blay_ (n=blay@50.206.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com)`
`02:34.18`	`*** join/#wowace Dashkal (n=dashkal@WoWUIDev/Nexus/dashkal)`
`02:43.10`	`*** part/#wowace Blime (n=wmurray@c-24-125-170-246.hsd1.va.comcast.net)`
`02:47.46`	`Ackis`	`~seen nymbia`
`02:47.53`	`purl`	`nymbia <n=nymbia@c-67-190-49-185.hsd1.co.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowace, 2d 22h 39m 11s ago, saying: 'Thrae: that sounds a lot like what i heard before AoC, but i haven't played WAR, so i can't judge. i guess we'll find out'.`
`02:48.33`	`Aens\|Superiority`	`oh man. kil'jaeden really showcases the bad players who've been carried all the way through burning crusade`
`02:49.30`	`Aens\|Superiority`	`kiljaeden is, 4 or 5 really simple things but all at once. Shade of Aran in that sense.`
`02:49.53`	`Ackis`	`Aens\|Superiority: kalecgos, felmyst, twins (strat 1) all demonstrated that fact :P`
`02:50.03`	`Wobin`	`<3's ShadeOfAranChant`
`02:51.02`	`Aens\|Superiority`	`its revealled even more people`
`02:51.15`	`Aens\|Superiority`	`got this one druid right now, gets hit by every single shadow spike.`
`02:55.53`	`*** join/#wowace Megalon (n=starfox@d86-32-5-97.cust.tele2.at)`
`03:08.02`	`*** join/#wowace \|Jelly\| (n=chatzill@66-169-186-78.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com)`
`03:20.34`	`vithos`	`is KJ's knockback not implemented in Threat-2.0 or something?`
`03:20.41`	`vithos`	`i keep getting fucking soulflayed while below the tank`
`03:30.24`	`*** join/#wowace elaa (n=ela@p54B4D209.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`03:44.51`	`*** join/#wowace Dekster (n=chatzill@netblock-68-183-40-143.dslextreme.com)`
`03:49.15`	`*** join/#wowace WobWork (n=Wobin@203-206-178-228.perm.iinet.net.au)`
`03:49.15`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v WobWork] by ChanServ`
`03:55.56`	`*** join/#wowace kaugummi (n=kaugummi@2002:5091:e792:55f:20d:93ff:fe87:d832)`
`04:01.24`	`Ackis`	`holy shit`
`04:01.42`	`Ackis`	`I loaded up the branch for ARL onto beta... and it didn't toss out any errors!`
`04:01.47`	`*** join/#wowace g3gg01 (n=g3gg0@ppp-88-217-94-13.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`04:01.57`	`Primer`	`Some dude's telling me you need this "Preform AV Enabler" to get all 15 people into the same AB`
`04:02.03`	`Primer`	`and I'm calling bullshit`
`04:03.21`	`WobWork`	`for AB?`
`04:03.25`	`WobWork`	`I thought it had party joining`
`04:03.51`	`ScoTTie`	`people use preform to vs pugs`
`04:03.58`	`ScoTTie`	`and have low queue times`
`04:04.06`	`WobWork`	`ah`
`04:04.08`	`WobWork`	`good point`
`04:26.41`	`*** join/#wowace silentium (i=silentiu@dslb-088-066-020-206.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`04:27.04`	`*** join/#wowace KriLL3 (i=KriLL3@unaffiliated/krill3)`
`04:39.21`	`kadrahil`	`vithos: poke`
`04:40.30`	`CIA-51`	`03jakobud * r81383 10SalvationVeto/ (Locale-enUS.lua SalvationVeto.lua SalvationVeto.toc):`
`04:40.30`	`CIA-51`	`SalvationVeto:`
`04:40.30`	`CIA-51`	`- Added option to toggle chat window feedback on/off`
`04:40.30`	`CIA-51`	`- Added option to only remove Salvation buffs in combat`
`04:41.24`	`*** join/#wowace Yssaril (n=Yssaril@adsl-99-145-232-253.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)`
`04:50.52`	`vithos`	`kadrahil, sup`
`04:51.27`	`kadrahil`	`vithos: i heard that lightning serpents don't do anything to stormstrikes anymore`
`04:51.30`	`kadrahil`	`er`
`04:51.32`	`kadrahil`	`wind serpents`
`04:51.34`	`Groktar`	`woot, we managed to get the haste breath done before darts/firebloom!`
`04:51.36`	`kadrahil`	`whatever they are :P`
`04:52.10`	`vithos`	`on live?`
`04:52.22`	`kadrahil`	`yeah`
`04:52.34`	`kadrahil`	`a couple of hunters were telling me`
`04:52.40`	`vithos`	`i haven't heard that`
`04:53.31`	`kadrahil`	`i don't know how true it is either`
`04:53.37`	`kadrahil`	`i just read a forum post from like, today`
`04:53.41`	`kadrahil`	`http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=3F95337EB04F317AD8F5D753B1A1D393?topicId=5754387007&sid=1`
`04:54.30`	`kadrahil`	`we take one elemental shaman`
`04:54.41`	`kadrahil`	`and he complains about the other hunter using a serpent`
`04:55.02`	`kadrahil`	`do you still use a ravager?`
`04:55.07`	`vithos`	`i use a wind serpent and we sometimes have an elemental shaman`
`04:55.14`	`vithos`	`but i don't like the guy.`
`04:56.41`	`kadrahil`	`haha`
`04:57.06`	`kadrahil`	`vithos: do you use the same 3:2 steady/KC macro and just add in lightning breath beneath KC?`
`04:57.16`	`vithos`	`i don't use KC`
`04:57.25`	`kadrahil`	`why not?`
`04:57.35`	`*** join/#wowace kaugummi (n=kaugummi@2002:5091:dae2:55f:20d:93ff:fe87:d832)`
`04:57.35`	`vithos`	`i have too much haste to`
`04:57.38`	`kadrahil`	`ah`
`04:57.45`	`vithos`	`if i do, it'll just chain like 10 steady shots in a row`
`04:57.48`	`*** join/#wowace HolgerDK (n=markj@0x57372af1.nfnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk)`
`04:57.51`	`kadrahil`	`yeah that would suck`
`04:58.17`	`kadrahil`	`i have 53 haste from my felspine and i still chain 3 or sometimes 4 steadies in a row`
`04:58.45`	`vithos`	`k how the fuck do i pull aggro at 90% before i even FD`
`04:59.33`	`kadrahil`	`let me guess`
`04:59.33`	`kadrahil`	`gathios`
`04:59.33`	`kadrahil`	`hammer of justiced you`
`04:59.33`	`kadrahil`	`and proceeded to melee hit you for 11k`
`04:59.33`	`vithos`	`KJ's 3 initial mobs`
`04:59.34`	`kadrahil`	`oh`
`04:59.44`	`kadrahil`	`because gathios did that to me twice in ar ow last night`
`05:02.56`	`*** join/#wowace Nargiddley (n=narg@203-97-236-74.cable.telstraclear.net)`
`05:04.35`	`vithos`	`but yeah, my macro is 4 /casts, autoshot, steady shot, lb, bite`
`05:13.27`	`*** part/#wowace Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-177-34-176.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`05:14.34`	`Groktar`	`wishes his premade warrior would transfer faster`
`05:15.07`	`vithos`	`i'm hearing the 80 premade chars have no talent points to spend`
`05:22.48`	`*** join/#wowace faCe\| (n=face@p5489C09F.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`05:32.09`	`*** join/#wowace Thrae (n=Thrae@96.244.5.80)`
`05:55.04`	`*** join/#wowace quoin (n=quoin@219-90-187-31.ip.adam.com.au)`
`06:10.23`	`kadrahil`	`speaking of beta keys`
`06:10.43`	`kadrahil`	`is there anywhere stated by blizzard that if they send a beta key to someone and they decide not to use it`
`06:10.49`	`kadrahil`	`that they can't then give it to someone else to use?`
`06:10.56`	`verxion`	`pretty sure there is`
`06:11.18`	`*** join/#wowace Zynderps (n=faggotry@217-209-42-83-no89.tbcn.telia.com)`
`06:11.21`	`verxion`	`I think by the time you actually receive a key there is some form of NDA in place`
`06:11.36`	`kadrahil`	`hmm`
`06:11.37`	`verxion`	`and that NDA precludes that kind of thing I believe`
`06:11.53`	`Groktar`	`o wow`
`06:11.55`	`kadrahil`	`so not after they tie the key into their account, but before?`
`06:11.56`	`verxion`	`plus I -THINK- it is locked to a specific account`
`06:12.11`	`kadrahil`	`how then does blizzard give keys to sites like mmo champion, or wowhead, to give away?`
`06:12.14`	`kadrahil`	`without violating that NDA`
`06:12.18`	`verxion`	`well I don't remember exactly how things worked for me`
`06:12.24`	`Groktar`	`one of the females in my guild missed the raid tonight, and she posted this explanation on the guild forums: "my fucking game time is out and i cant get even $15 bucks off my fucking mom. she'll take my sister shopping and spend $150 on her a fucking week but wont even let me have 15 fucking bucks. i dont know when the next time ill be on is....."`
`06:12.27`	`verxion`	`I was sent an email`
`06:12.34`	`verxion`	`then I went to a website from the email`
`06:12.52`	`verxion`	`then I think I had to create an account tied to my wow account`
`06:12.54`	`Groktar`	`there is no nda on closed beta`
`06:13.06`	`kadrahil`	`ooh..`
`06:13.07`	`Groktar`	`only friends and family`
`06:13.08`	`verxion`	`wait`
`06:13.11`	`verxion`	`I just looked`
`06:13.13`	`kadrahil`	`friends and family, hrm`
`06:13.17`	`verxion`	`the key was included in the original email`
`06:13.26`	`kadrahil`	`so technically if i spammed in trade chat wtb beta key, and got a legit response`
`06:13.32`	`verxion`	`yeah, I got mine from a blizzard employee I know`
`06:13.35`	`kadrahil`	`ah`
`06:13.41`	`Megalon`	`it's nice when you get no mans land on a flight taxi :>`
`06:13.42`	`Groktar`	`yes, you can use the key on any account`
`06:13.55`	`verxion`	`yeah Groktar`
`06:14.04`	`verxion`	`I hadn't remembered the order of things until I dug up the email`
`06:14.15`	`kadrahil`	`so since they already sent the key to this guy to use in his email and he's thinking about not using it`
`06:14.27`	`kadrahil`	`he can't then give it to me to use?`
`06:14.32`	`kadrahil`	`if he hasn't already tied it into his account`
`06:14.34`	`verxion`	`yeah, from what I can see the email I got`
`06:14.40`	`verxion`	`if I just forwarded it to someone`
`06:14.45`	`verxion`	`the should have been FULLY able to use it`
`06:14.53`	`Groktar`	`he can give it to you np if he hasn't used it to activate an account`
`06:15.08`	`kadrahil`	`ah HA`
`06:15.35`	`verxion`	`be prepared for some big downloads`
`06:15.43`	`verxion`	`multi gigs worth`
`06:15.45`	`verxion`	`:)`
`06:16.01`	`Groktar`	`there was that epic thread on the customer service forum from a guy who got his beta invite and thought it was a scam`
`06:16.09`	`Groktar`	`and posted the email in its entirety`
`06:16.23`	`verxion`	`lol`
`06:16.26`	`verxion`	`which would have included the key`
`06:16.30`	`Groktar`	`yup`
`06:16.36`	`verxion`	`id10t`
`06:16.51`	`Groktar`	`and then he was mad because blizzard wouldn't give him a new key`
`06:16.56`	`verxion`	`lol`
`06:17.11`	`*** join/#wowace Adys_ (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys)`
`06:18.12`	`nocts`	`http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112148 - case I'm considering, fire away`
`06:18.52`	`*** join/#wowace eps (n=eps@203.171.70.21.dynamic.rev.aanet.com.au)`
`06:19.10`	`WobWork`	`nice`
`06:19.14`	`WobWork`	`not much in the way of cooling though`
`06:19.19`	`nocts`	`Good amounts of cooling.`
`06:19.36`	`nocts`	`Good amount of fans. And it isn't the number of fans that account for good airflow anyway.`
`06:19.42`	`WobWork`	`you'd get airflow across your drives`
`06:19.44`	`kadrahil`	`i'm negotiating buying this guy's beta key from him ingame`
`06:19.49`	`WobWork`	`but not really that much across the cards`
`06:19.50`	`kadrahil`	`since he hasn't used it to activate an account yet`
`06:20.02`	`nocts`	`WobWork: Only if you fill up all five HD slots.`
`06:20.05`	`nocts`	`I've got two, max.`
`06:20.30`	`nocts`	`But good point to consider.`
`06:21.14`	`WobWork`	`is it one of tthose cool screwless designs?`
`06:21.30`	`WobWork`	`hm looks not =(`
`06:21.33`	`nocts`	`Lian-li is almost always tool-less.`
`06:21.40`	`nocts`	`But I would never use a completely screwless design.`
`06:21.54`	`Groktar`	`my antec case isn't screwless, but they gave you lots of thumb screws`
`06:22.03`	`Groktar`	`so i don't need tools`
`06:22.05`	`WobWork`	`just in case?`
`06:22.15`	`nocts`	`Thumb screws are fine. Lian-li makes them out of steel.`
`06:22.19`	`Groktar`	`i still have room for 4 more hard drives`
`06:22.24`	`nocts`	`WobWork: I can fix a threading issue and replace screws. I can't replace a broken toolless attachment.`
`06:22.24`	`Groktar`	`wtb`
`06:22.43`	`Groktar`	`1.2 terabyes and i only have 12 gigabyes left`
`06:22.44`	`Groktar`	`:(`
`06:22.47`	`WobWork`	`Groktar: hard drives are cheap`
`06:22.59`	`Groktar`	`ya, gonna wait until i'm employed again`
`06:23.01`	`nocts`	`And the front fans actually push air out the front, meaning they're already drawing the air from behind the cards, running it over them, and yanking it out.`
`06:23.05`	`Groktar`	`dpm`
`06:23.12`	`Groktar`	`i don't want to work this semester`
`06:23.13`	`nocts`	`Lian li is generally back to front.`
`06:23.14`	`WobWork`	`meanwhile, delete some of your old porn`
`06:23.25`	`Groktar`	`don't keep porn on my computer`
`06:23.31`	`WobWork`	`sure`
`06:23.42`	`WobWork`	`delete some of your old 'movies' then =)`
`06:23.50`	`Groktar`	`NO`
`06:23.57`	`Groktar`	`i <3 my movie/tv show collection`
`06:24.18`	`Groktar`	`11 seasons of mash, 10 seasons of stargate sg-1, etc`
`06:25.13`	`Groktar`	`hmm`
`06:25.25`	`Groktar`	`server side macros/keybinds in an upcoming build`
`06:29.52`	`WobWork`	`nocts: I'd read the reviews on that case before buying it`
`06:30.34`	`Xinhuan`	`Diao`
`06:30.36`	`Xinhuan`	`:D`
`06:30.50`	`nocts`	`WobWork: Already did.`
`06:31.08`	`nocts`	`Side thought: Shouldn't the cards already have their own cooling :P`
`06:31.16`	`nocts`	`And if not, shouldn't you have purchased cards that were better cooled?`
`06:31.43`	`WobWork`	`well sure`
`06:31.52`	`WobWork`	`but they're designed to cool themselves`
`06:32.00`	`WobWork`	`if you pack those cards in with others...`
`06:32.10`	`nocts`	`What else do you put in? O.o`
`06:32.22`	`WobWork`	`i dunno, other cards =P`
`06:32.30`	`Groktar`	`sends his water pump, 10 feet of 1/2" tygon, modded heatercore, and custom shroud to WobWork`
`06:32.35`	`nocts`	`You can't tell me a soundblaster audigy anything is going to generate any amount of noticeable heat.`
`06:32.49`	`WobWork`	`Groktar: woo thank you`
`06:32.56`	`nocts`	`What do people put into those slots besides self-cooled cards that need cooling?`
`06:32.57`	`WobWork`	`builds a water feature in the corner of his room`
`06:33.00`	`nocts`	`I'm actually a bit curious now.`
`06:33.05`	`Groktar`	`hehe`
`06:33.48`	`WobWork`	`nocts: it's more that I'm thinking, that in a cramped space, even if the card is self 'cooled', that heat has to go somewhere, and if it's too cramped, it can't go anywhere`
`06:33.50`	`Groktar`	`my pump/radiator is more than enough to do two video cards, cpu, and northbridge`
`06:34.11`	`Groktar`	`watercooling video cards blows tho`
`06:34.14`	`nocts`	`WobWork: Agreed. But to be fair, the case itself has vents alongside the expansions slots, and above.`
`06:34.17`	`Groktar`	`since you need a custom block for every card`
`06:34.25`	`nocts`	`Sicne those front fans pull air out, it's already moving that air.`
`06:34.30`	`nocts`	`*since`
`06:34.32`	`nocts`	`*cents`
`06:34.48`	`erikh`	`http://www.projectsidewalk.com/images/flowchart2.jpg`
`06:34.55`	`nocts`	`Cents those phans polled air yut, it's alheady moving thair air.`
`06:35.58`	`binder`	`did you seriously just type that?`
`06:36.11`	`nocts`	`It actually took me quite a while to get that just right.`
`06:36.20`	`binder`	`haha`
`06:36.36`	`*** join/#wowace AnduinLothar (n=AnduinLo@ip70-181-80-166.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`06:36.36`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ`
`06:36.42`	`binder`	`and people typing any1 and "u r" drives me crazy enough`
`06:36.46`	`WobWork`	`tehrible`
`06:36.53`	`binder`	`
`06:37.11`	`nocts`	`binder: eye no, eyem teh sam wai ass u lol!!!!1`
`06:37.30`	`binder`	`um`
`06:37.33`	`nocts`	`See? I even had to backspace my non-typos because I was typing the typos incorrectly.`
`06:37.44`	`*** join/#wowace Anaral (n=Anaral@ip68-228-143-183.hr.hr.cox.net)`
`06:37.44`	`Tigerdyr`	`nocts: that's not right it would be "lulz!!!!111one"`
`06:37.51`	`nocts`	`I sit corrected.`
`06:37.52`	`binder`	`butt weight their's more!`
`06:38.19`	`nocts`	`wtf? My card is going to require 2x6 pin power connectors.`
`06:38.26`	`nocts`	`That's 12 fucking power pins.`
`06:38.37`	`Tigerdyr`	`10V`
`06:38.49`	`nocts`	`Holy fuck that's a card.`
`06:39.19`	`binder`	`I think my wow would run like 200 fps if it weren't for wowace`
`06:39.24`	`nocts`	`^ LOL`
`06:39.41`	`binder`	`no really`
`06:39.48`	`binder`	`I run like every single ace addon out there`
`06:39.53`	`nocts`	`And the fad of ace being lightweight finally comes to a crushing, disappointing end.`
`06:40.16`	`nocts`	`I welcome it. The sheer amount of people who recommend it "cuz it thar be fastar in these here watars"`
`06:40.18`	`binder`	`"these jenny craig dinners are great if you eat 9 or 10 of them"`
`06:40.18`	`nocts`	`Amazing.`
`06:40.22`	`nocts`	`rofl`
`06:40.34`	`nocts`	`omg I spit out my soup, you bastard`
`06:40.43`	`kadrahil`	`i just got a beta key from some dude that isn't going to use his :D`
`06:40.45`	`kadrahil`	`SO EXCITED`
`06:40.54`	`nocts`	`EVERYBODY PANIC`
`06:40.56`	`kadrahil`	`copying my hunter over to the pvp server`
`06:41.05`	`kadrahil`	`heh`
`06:41.14`	`kadrahil`	`Average Wait Time: 10 hours`
`06:41.15`	`kadrahil`	`>:(`
`06:41.19`	`binder`	`nocts`
`06:41.22`	`NeoTron`	`MURU IS DEAD`
`06:41.27`	`binder`	`how much of my wow addon memory are you responsible for?`
`06:41.28`	`NeoTron`	`about time`
`06:41.35`	`NeoTron`	`really. about fucking time!`
`06:41.38`	`nocts`	`binder: All of my ace addons are non released.`
`06:41.48`	`NeoTron`	`2.5 months`
`06:42.02`	`binder`	`total addon memory 119.6 MiB`
`06:42.07`	`nocts`	`I remember reading general on the beta PvP : "OMG I can't get anything done on this PvP server?! How am I supposed to test?" - "I don't see the problem. Are the graveyards bugged?"`
`06:42.36`	`nocts`	`http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130376 <<< my card.`
`06:43.14`	`kadrahil`	`neotron grats`
`06:44.05`	`binder`	`I've never leveled on a pve server`
`06:44.09`	`binder`	`wonder what it's like`
`06:45.11`	`kadrahil`	`i bet it's boring as crap`
`06:45.42`	`kadrahil`	`dashkal was offended by that`
`06:45.47`	`binder`	`indeed`
`06:45.54`	`kadrahil`	`:P`
`06:46.17`	`binder`	`darn mormons get offended by everything!`
`06:46.23`	`kadrahil`	`lol`
`06:46.54`	`*** join/#wowace kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree)`
`06:51.28`	`*** join/#wowace Fogger (i=RiZLA@host86-151-156-59.range86-151.btcentralplus.com)`
`06:52.48`	`nocts`	`While I'm shopping, let's get a discussion about ATI v Nvidia.`
`06:53.41`	`*** join/#wowace smcn (i=smcn@c-67-160-186-84.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`06:53.48`	`Fogger`	`NOOB WARNING!: Hi, I'm doing the ace3 tutorial from the ace wiki, and I was wondering, if i access the option self.message from inside the function, how would I access that option from outside, when global self is nil?`
`06:54.08`	`nocts`	`Fogger, we can't help you until you give us a bit of information first.`
`06:54.12`	`nocts`	`Are you using an ATI or nvidia card?`
`06:54.30`	`Fogger`	`Ati`
`06:54.39`	`nocts`	`Make/model?`
`06:54.46`	`Fogger`	`x1650 pro`
`06:54.52`	`Fogger`	`sapphire`
`06:54.55`	`nocts`	`What do you think about it? Solid or regret it?`
`06:55.02`	`Zhinjio`	`I gave up on ati a long long time ago`
`06:55.07`	`Zhinjio`	`haven't looked back since.`
`06:55.18`	`Fogger`	`it was slightly bettere than the 8900 pro I had before that :P`
`06:55.37`	`Fogger`	`I've used both, I find advantages on either`
`06:56.16`	`nevcairiel`	`I've always had nvidia, and never had a single issue with it`
`06:56.44`	`nocts`	`Nev, can't he just declare self.message outside the function as global?`
`06:57.22`	`nevcairiel`	`no, you use <addonobject>.message`
`06:57.27`	`nevcairiel`	`depending on how you initialize it`
`06:57.33`	`nocts`	`Ah, still getting used to the WoW API for Lua`
`06:57.36`	`nevcairiel`	`like <addonobject> = AceAddon:New`
`06:57.47`	`WobWork`	`http://www.somethingpositive.net/`
`06:57.51`	`nocts`	`And if I wanted to use self.message outside of a function?`
`06:58.05`	`Fogger`	`sure I tried <modname>.message, 1 sec`
`06:58.29`	`Fogger`	`or maybe I didnt :P`
`06:58.30`	`nevcairiel`	`as long as your mod variable is valid in that scope`
`06:58.38`	`nevcairiel`	`so if its global`
`06:58.40`	`nevcairiel`	`it'll work`
`06:58.42`	`nocts`	`Also deciding to go for a full tower case instead of a mid. I'll appreciate the room on the SLI and wiring, I'm sure.`
`06:59.01`	`nevcairiel`	`sli is just a waste of memory, imho`
`06:59.02`	`Fogger`	`ok, im dumb, sorry :)`
`06:59.19`	`nevcairiel`	`er`
`06:59.21`	`nevcairiel`	`money`
`06:59.23`	`nevcairiel`	`not memory :P`
`06:59.30`	`nevcairiel`	`needs coffee`
`06:59.35`	`nocts`	`nevcairiel: I've watched a marked performance increase on a good chunk of my games though. For very little.`
`06:59.47`	`nocts`	`Granted, it's a second card, but the motherboards I get anyway are already sli-ready.`
`06:59.56`	`nocts`	`$190 for a second card isn't too bad an expense.`
`07:00.20`	`nevcairiel`	`do you really need that performance to be able to play the game, or is that just "hey 10 fps more is more e-peen" ? ;)`
`07:00.47`	`nocts`	`It's the performance to play the game.`
`07:01.06`	`nocts`	`If I crank up max resolution and settings, and then blow past the default allowed settings by forcing nvidia AA and similar, then I need that umph.`
`07:01.10`	`nevcairiel`	`I've a 8800 GTS and all games i tried went pretty smoothly on good settings`
`07:01.18`	`nocts`	`If I stuck to just what the games allowed? Sure.`
`07:01.27`	`nocts`	`If you force the card to use it's full potential? You've got lag.`
`07:01.43`	`nocts`	`Such as wow's limitation on AA internally, or EVE's limitation on AA internally.`
`07:01.55`	`nevcairiel`	`well there isnt really a visible difference between 8x AA and 16x AA, at least to my eyes`
`07:02.11`	`nocts`	`Usually not, but I run widescreen on a 22'', so I end up seeing quite a bit.`
`07:02.21`	`nocts`	`If I had a 24'' at the larger res, less so because of pixel size.`
`07:02.44`	`Fogger`	`before 2.0 or 2.4 (cant remember) I had no fps problems, but as time passed, it got choppier & choppier, now especially in raids, my fps can drop to nothing nearly, I guess I need to upgrade.`
`07:02.53`	`nocts`	`And honestly, to me it's more about the texture quality processing and arthroscopic filtering.`
`07:03.28`	`nocts`	`That, and having EVE on one card and WoW on the other = nice. Even though that isn't SLI.`
`07:03.40`	`Fogger`	`one thing that confuses me is that if I have all settings maxed or minimum, it still runs at the same level of choppyness.`
`07:03.42`	`*** join/#wowace sun\ (n=sun@ARouen-256-1-57-56.w90-51.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`07:04.00`	`nevcairiel`	`nocts: do you have 2 screens or both in windowed mode next to each other? =P`
`07:04.05`	`nocts`	`nevcairiel: two`
`07:05.48`	`nevcairiel`	`Fogger: check if you have the input-lag correction active, if so, turn it off. that eats your fps-babies`
`07:06.09`	`*** join/#wowace futurekill (n=futureki@ool-45708763.dyn.optonline.net)`
`07:06.13`	`nocts`	`nevcairiel: If it helps. I don't build and run machines off of e-peen.`
`07:06.19`	`nocts`	`I build according to the lag and limitations I feel.`
`07:06.20`	`*** join/#wowace charon (n=thomas@unaffiliated/charon)`
`07:06.26`	`nocts`	`I mean, I use lian-li cases instead of racer cases :P`
`07:06.28`	`nocts`	`Come on.`
`07:08.05`	`Thrae`	`eVGA 9800 GTX+ SSC is the best card for price/performance. Throw it another one in a year and you'll be good until the next.`
`07:08.13`	`*** join/#wowace [ND] (n=[ND]@h062040167062.gun.cm.kabsi.at)`
`07:08.32`	`nocts`	`Thrae: My thoughts too.`
`07:09.10`	`Thrae`	`I have a 8800GT myself, which is just an older version of the 9800 GTX+ (some of the early 9800 GTXs were actually overclocked 8800 GTs)`
`07:09.48`	`*** join/#wowace Gandharva (n=Miranda@ppp-88-217-81-201.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`07:09.52`	`kadrahil`	`well now i know what i'm going to be doing tomorrow`
`07:09.54`	`nevcairiel`	`my plan is to just hang around with my 8800 GTS until early 2009, then upgrade to the next model`
`07:10.12`	`Thrae`	`nevcairiel: 8800 GTS has dropped in price. Thinking of SLI?`
`07:10.19`	`nevcairiel`	`nah`
`07:10.23`	`nevcairiel`	`i dont even have a sli board`
`07:10.25`	`kadrahil`	`killing level 80s on my full T6 hunter`
`07:10.27`	`Thrae`	`Ah`
`07:10.27`	`kadrahil`	`:D`
`07:10.40`	`nevcairiel`	`And WoW is pretty much the only game i play`
`07:10.50`	`nevcairiel`	`that doesnt require that much performance`
`07:10.56`	`Thrae`	`nevcairiel: Core i7 / Nelham will give SLI support for new Intel boards`
`07:11.05`	`*** join/#wowace Vegeta]BT[ (n=Vegeta-G@62.80.24.154)`
`07:11.10`	`Thrae`	`nevcairiel: Try playing in 2560x1600 w/ full settings in a 40-man raid ;)`
`07:11.25`	`Thrae`	`I sometimes get as low as 30fps =/`
`07:11.31`	`nevcairiel`	`my screen is capped at 1680x1050, and that runs fine on full settings in 25-man`
`07:12.06`	`Thrae`	`I'm actually thinking about getting another 8800GT Akimbo...$120 after mail in rebate? Migosh`
`07:13.40`	`*** join/#wowace smcn (i=smcn@c-67-160-186-84.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`07:14.30`	`*** join/#wowace papyros (n=madlener@iss63.vlsi.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de)`
`07:15.10`	`*** join/#wowace CrazyBenny (n=s_m@212.11.123.10)`
`07:16.56`	`*** join/#wowace Adirelle\|work (n=adirelle@tok69-5-82-235-150-60.fbx.proxad.net)`
`07:17.53`	`*** join/#wowace Kazie (n=k@port207.ds1-vg.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
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`07:20.31`	`nocts`	`http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371010 << and the power supply`
`07:21.26`	`Thrae`	`nocts: "SLI Certified / Crossfire Ready" generally means "I'm 10% more expensive then I should be" (from an insider's point of view)`
`07:21.34`	`*** join/#wowace Kalroth (n=kalroth@0x573f1066.hjnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk)`
`07:21.41`	`Thrae`	`Antec and Thermaltake are both generally good PSU brands, though.`
`07:22.13`	`nocts`	`Thrae: Generally, yes.`
`07:22.26`	`nocts`	`But the 10% isn't from the feature name (included by newegg), it's from it being modular.`
`07:22.34`	`Zhinjio`	`I won't buy thermaltake anymore. had pretty bad luck with their psu products`
`07:22.47`	`nocts`	`that's a killer price for a rails stable PSU with modularity. Stable modularity at that.`
`07:23.11`	`Thrae`	`nocts: Only 650W though, that's cutting it low for a gaming machine.`
`07:23.18`	`nocts`	`not really O.o`
`07:23.33`	`*** join/#wowace orionshock (n=chatzill@ip68-225-195-1.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`07:23.34`	`CIA-51`	`03jakobud * r81384 10SalvationVeto/SalvationVeto.lua:`
`07:23.34`	`CIA-51`	`SalvationVeto:`
`07:23.34`	`CIA-51`	`- Fixed minor bug`
`07:23.37`	`nocts`	`A SLI 9800gtx+ with a dual-core 3.8ghz is only going to use around 395`
`07:23.46`	`nocts`	`overclocked we're looking at around 425`
`07:24.02`	`orionshock`	`i hope jackobud knows that come 3.0, his addon is getting f'ed over`
`07:24.11`	`nocts`	`Thrae: http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp`
`07:24.39`	`Thrae`	`nocts: Actually, Nvidia recommends at least 550W for SLI 9800 GTX+, and if you factor in Dual GTX 280s...well, I just think it's better to get something a little higher for future purchases.`
`07:24.54`	`Thrae`	`It's not like PSU technology is slated to explode anytime soon.`
`07:25.40`	`nocts`	`http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=22650`
`07:25.55`	`nocts`	`A lot of their certified PSU's are pointing right at 550's and 650's for the entire machine's uage.`
`07:26.00`	`nocts`	`It's never just for the cards themselves.`
`07:26.02`	`nocts`	`Run that calc :)`
`07:26.28`	`nevcairiel`	`that page totally fails`
`07:26.33`	`nevcairiel`	`it says i need 38w`
`07:26.35`	`*** join/#wowace Zeksie (n=zeksie@cpc2-nott9-0-0-cust211.nott.cable.ntl.com)`
`07:26.35`	`Thrae`	`I know of it. Like I said, I'm in the industry. I work for a video chipset manufacturer. That calculator isn't entirely accurate.`
`07:26.59`	`nocts`	`And that antec PSU is linked from their website or recommended PSU's, that's straight from Nvidia when asked about double SLI 9800GTX+`
`07:27.03`	`*** join/#wowace AnduinLothar (n=AnduinLo@ip70-181-80-166.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`07:27.03`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v AnduinLothar] by ChanServ`
`07:27.07`	`nocts`	`nev :P Click calculate after choosing your hardware.`
`07:27.18`	`nevcairiel`	`But i got a nice modular PSU anyway`
`07:27.25`	`nevcairiel`	`dont remember the type anymore, though`
`07:27.35`	`nevcairiel`	`got it for free on a lan party 2 years ago or so`
`07:27.43`	`nevcairiel`	`been rock solid`
`07:28.04`	`Thrae`	`nocts: I said Nvidia recommends at leasta 550W PSU (for the whole computer) running that setup, and that's a 650W PSU, so that'd be fine for that setup. I'm talking upgrades.`
`07:28.29`	`nocts`	`Thrae: I understand. But I don't see me getting rid of 2x9800GTX+'s in a simple year or two's time.`
`07:28.31`	`nocts`	`do you?`
`07:28.53`	`Thrae`	`nocts: No, but what about overclocking?`
`07:29.05`	`nocts`	`I won't be overclocking the cards, no point.`
`07:29.13`	`nocts`	`Just the CPU to meet the RAM speed I have.`
`07:29.20`	`nocts`	`That minor amount isn't going to crack anything.`
`07:29.43`	`Thrae`	`For an extra $20-$30, you could get a PSU that could let you squeeze out a little more juice from the CPU and GPUs to make it last longer.`
`07:29.57`	`Thrae`	`With 650W you could overclock, but it'd be a little tight.`
`07:30.06`	`nocts`	`The GPU's and CPU's that I am getting right now won't need to be updated for 2-3 years.`
`07:30.17`	`nocts`	`If I can't spend another $90 on a simple PSU in three years, I have more problems than old hardware.`
`07:30.39`	`Thrae`	`If all you're doing is playing WoW, then sure. I guess I was just looking at a bigger picture then you.`
`07:30.47`	`nocts`	`I'm talking about crysis and similar.`
`07:30.51`	`nocts`	`Even next gen.`
`07:31.08`	`nocts`	`The 9800GTX+s are going to be around for a long time, even longer in SLI.`
`07:31.41`	`nocts`	`The entire point of a faster card is so that the dips never break 24 fps.`
`07:31.57`	`nocts`	`I'm having a hard time, in most games, going lower than 24fps on my 7900, non sli.`
`07:32.39`	`nocts`	`So, again. I understand that it won't be as easily to upgrade. but since the upgrade timeframes are in years, possibly up to three, I don't see the issue.`
`07:32.58`	`nevcairiel`	`three years with a 9800? Hm i dunno`
`07:33.17`	`Thrae`	`Two 9800GTX+s already have problems with Crysis (granted, Crysis has problems of its own). It's not a "next gen" card really, it's just a newer version of the 8800GT. Of course, it all depends on how you rate "playability". If eye candy isn't really for you and it's more about how smooth the game is without looking like complete and total crap, then I can see your timetable being accurate.`
`07:33.18`	`*** join/#wowace pb_ee1 (n=nospam@meilleu015869-2.clients.easynet.fr)`
`07:33.26`	`nocts`	`Three pushing it in 9800GTX+ (new design from 9800 anyway) in sli should push it three years.`
`07:33.28`	`nocts`	`Two and a half minimum.`
`07:33.56`	`nocts`	`Thrae: Show me a game that's having FPS issues on a sli 9800GTx+?`
`07:34.01`	`nevcairiel`	`If i were to upgrade now i would go for 280 or so`
`07:34.10`	`nevcairiel`	`Crysis has FPS issues on any card :P`
`07:34.13`	`nocts`	`Crysis doesn't count. that's like asking to prove stablity by testing an EA game.`
`07:34.19`	`Thrae`	`Haha`
`07:34.21`	`Kalroth`	`lol`
`07:34.38`	`nevcairiel`	`Well you cannot think of now, but gfx games are developing very fast too`
`07:34.41`	`Thrae`	`Well, even WoW has problems on SLI 9800 GTX+s at 2560x1600`
`07:35.05`	`Thrae`	`Most games do at that resolution, except on SLI 280s`
`07:35.19`	`Kalroth`	`I'm looking at ATi's 4850x2, looks pretty neat`
`07:35.28`	`Thrae`	`And the new ATI 4850x2`
`07:35.32`	`Kalroth`	`260/280 is a powerhog, fucking 250w`
`07:35.57`	`Kalroth`	`er, 230 watt :)`
`07:36.06`	`Thrae`	`I forget if my MB can do three-way SLI...`
`07:36.08`	`nocts`	`http://pastey.net/95448`
`07:36.30`	`nocts`	`Now, I've used that for 19 computers. And it's been close enough to being right to never have issues.`
`07:36.31`	`Kalroth`	`Keyboard and mouse: Yes <- phew`
`07:36.42`	`*** join/#wowace Thelyna (n=burp@222-152-88-66.jetstream.xtra.co.nz)`
`07:36.59`	`Kalroth`	`Fans`
`07:37.07`	`Kalroth`	`Regular: nevcairiel, Thrae and nocts`
`07:37.14`	`nocts`	`lol`
`07:37.32`	`Kalroth`	`Recommended Wattage: 450 Watts`
`07:37.34`	`Kalroth`	`uhm`
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`07:38.21`	`nocts`	`The calc is using all the numbers right off the side of the hardware or manual for the exact wattages used.`
`07:38.34`	`nocts`	`Variation included, I've still got 200 watts of breathing room.`
`07:38.35`	`Megalon`	`450 watts, that's like less than a half of a 1000watt power supply!`
`07:38.40`	`nocts`	`IT'S OVER 9000`
`07:39.22`	`Thrae`	`Damn, I didn't get a MB with three PCI-E 16x/8x slots. Oh well, maybe I can use a PCI Video Card along with two cards in SLI...`
`07:39.22`	`nocts`	`Thrae: After reading that, is there any reason why that would require a 550 PSU aside from nvidia's obviously unbiased, and uncatagorized generic responce?`
`07:39.34`	`Zhinjio`	`I need 600 in my systems, but I'm also mirroring drives`
`07:39.39`	`Zhinjio`	`which adds a little bit`
`07:39.44`	`nocts`	`troof`
`07:40.05`	`Zhinjio`	`I don't install any home systems without mirroring anymore`
`07:40.34`	`Zhinjio`	`and I always buy 4 drives right off the bat.`
`07:40.40`	`Zhinjio`	`2 in the system and 2 spares`
`07:41.25`	*** join/#wowace Kody` (n=kody@c-98-210-154-155.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
`07:41.39`	`nocts`	`Thrae: Also, since I've got a full tower, I don't see why if the upgrade is that large I can't just connect a secondary PSU.`
`07:41.49`	`nocts`	`Granted, I'm not quite sure how to connect two PSU's yet.`
`07:41.56`	`nocts`	`But I'm sure I'll figure it out.`
`07:42.05`	`Thrae`	`nocts: You can't unless the motherboard supports it or you have some other type of controller.`
`07:42.20`	`*** join/#wowace Wobin (n=Wobin@124-171-47-220.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`07:42.20`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v Wobin] by ChanServ`
`07:42.29`	`nocts`	`I'll just get a controller then.`
`07:42.41`	`Thrae`	`Ain't cheap`
`07:42.43`	`nocts`	`http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=34_186&products_id=21193`
`07:42.45`	`nocts`	`6.95`
`07:42.47`	`Zhinjio`	`hmm, interesting. two psus?`
`07:43.06`	`Thrae`	`nocts: Anyway, I said it was recommended, not required.`
`07:43.12`	`Adirelle\|work`	`hrmf, there is no more support to per-character SV in AceDB-3.0 ? or did I overlooked it ?`
`07:43.13`	`nocts`	`licks Thrae`
`07:43.26`	`Arrowmaster`	`Adirelle\|work: there isnt`
`07:43.33`	`Thrae`	`450W for that setup you pasted is getting close to the minimum.`
`07:43.55`	`nocts`	`And that's fine.`
`07:43.56`	`Adirelle\|work`	`oh`
`07:44.00`	`Thrae`	`Not to mention that 550W also takes into account badly made PSUs that aren't >80% efficient.`
`07:44.01`	`nocts`	`200W is a LOT of breathing room.`
`07:44.19`	`nocts`	`And if you read the reviews, that one is very, very efficient. Especially after anadtech's benchmarks.`
`07:44.38`	`nocts`	`With it being modular, don't plug in the cords where it isn't needed and you've even more rail stability.`
`07:45.11`	`Thrae`	`nocts: You'll remember my initial comment was directed towards future upgrades and overclockability. You cited that you feel your setup will last without overclocking and any other upgrades, at least for a long enough time then spending a little more on a larger PSU would be inefficient.`
`07:45.41`	`nocts`	`I don't trust any of the other larger, modular PSUs.`
`07:45.59`	`nocts`	`The modular part is VERY hard to get right.`
`07:46.07`	`nocts`	`I mean, if you know of one :) By all means recommend.`
`07:46.32`	`Thrae`	`Well, you say you don't trust Thermaltake either ;)`
`07:47.06`	`nocts`	`I didn't say that.`
`07:47.19`	`nocts`	`My current PSU is thermaltake.`
`07:47.46`	`nocts`	`Zhinjio: I won't buy thermaltake anymore. had pretty bad luck with their psu products`
`07:48.04`	`Thrae`	`Hmm right, sorry.`
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`07:48.07`	`nocts`	`<3`
`07:48.52`	`Zhinjio`	`heh`
`07:49.24`	`Zhinjio`	`I've had three different modular ones. none of them lasted more than about 6 months`
`07:49.32`	`Kalroth`	`Thermaltake was good, then they started hiring cheapass factories to make their shit and now they suck`
`07:49.39`	`nocts`	`Thus my hesitation to move away from this modular one.`
`07:49.48`	`nocts`	`this is the first one I've heard good, and long-term reviews on.`
`07:49.54`	`Thrae`	`Wow, I bought mine for like $120 and now it's $190.`
`07:50.18`	`Thrae`	`nocts: Hard to get a lot of long-term reviews on larger PSUs, considering they haven't been around as long ;)`
`07:51.00`	`Zhinjio`	`I do like inverted cases, however ... motherboard manufacturers have yet to concede that they are superior`
`07:51.17`	`Zhinjio`	`and still use ducted heatsinks that don't work in them`
`07:51.31`	`nocts`	`6months to a year is long enough.`
`07:51.44`	`nocts`	`Zhinjio: inverted? You mean PSU on the bottom?`
`07:51.49`	`Zhinjio`	`no`
`07:51.55`	`Zhinjio`	`psu can stay on the top`
`07:52.08`	`Zhinjio`	`well, assuming you can get them with cables long enough`
`07:52.25`	`Zhinjio`	`cpu/mem down`
`07:52.31`	`Zhinjio`	`as far as orientation in the case`
`07:52.35`	`nocts`	`O.o`
`07:52.38`	`nocts`	`Interesting.`
`07:52.41`	`nevcairiel`	`whats the difference really?`
`07:52.53`	`CIA-51`	`03nikkodemus * r81385 10Acheron/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)`
`07:52.53`	`CIA-51`	`Acheron:`
`07:52.53`	`CIA-51`	`- fixed bug with crazy health numbers being displayed when raid members are out of range for health readings (0/0 bug). If no health is available, Acheron will just display "--"`
`07:52.54`	`CIA-51`	`- hopefully finally fixed bug with nil entry on reporting`
`07:52.56`	`CIA-51`	`- added support for LibQuickHealth for more accurate health readings`
`07:52.56`	`Zhinjio`	`your air channel does not include your drives`
`07:52.58`	`CIA-51`	`- access to the main UI has changed significantly. Instead of right-clicking on`
`07:53.00`	`CIA-51`	`a unit frame to get a report option, you can now access all reports via`
`07:53.08`	`Zhinjio`	`among other benefits`
`07:53.09`	`nevcairiel`	`I like my drives getting cooled`
`07:53.20`	`nevcairiel`	`not liking my raid to die`
`07:53.26`	`Zhinjio`	`yes, me too, but I'd rather have dedicated cooling for them and my cpu, not shared`
`07:53.45`	`Thrae`	`nocts: Yeah mine's a lot more expensive since it has official 80+ certification and 4 rails, yours has no certification and 3 rails.`
`07:53.57`	`nocts`	`Link?`
`07:53.59`	`Zhinjio`	`there'a nice clean, linear air pathway along the bottom of the case cooling cpu and memory`
`07:54.05`	`Zhinjio`	`not impeded by anything`
`07:54.09`	`nevcairiel`	`My CPU Cooler is pretty good, and just behind it is a big fan that sucks the hout air out`
`07:54.11`	`Thrae`	`http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153036 <-- it was cheaper at one point`
`07:54.15`	`nevcairiel`	`never had any temp issues`
`07:54.18`	`nevcairiel`	`even in hot summer`
`07:54.19`	`Zhinjio`	`anyway, its basically personal preference.`
`07:54.45`	`nocts`	`Thrae: Pretty. But not modular.`
`07:54.57`	`*** join/#wowace WobWork (n=Wobin@124-171-47-220.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
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`07:55.03`	`Thrae`	`nocts: Wait, that's the wrong one then.`
`07:55.16`	`*** join/#wowace Wobin (n=Wobin@124-171-47-220.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
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`07:55.29`	`nevcairiel`	`it does say cable-management`
`07:55.58`	`Thrae`	`nocts: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153038 <-- pictures look the same, sorry`
`07:56.09`	`Zhinjio`	`the one thermaltake product that I'm still using, that has stood the test of time was a case.`
`07:56.39`	`*** join/#wowace Srosh (n=Srosh@c136130.adsl.hansenet.de)`
`07:57.01`	`nevcairiel`	`I got some pretty simple cooler master case now, just had to get rid of my old heavy big tower`
`07:57.02`	`nocts`	`Not bad :)`
`07:57.06`	`Thrae`	`has a Thermaltake case he took out of the repair shop garbage that's been modded to all heck`
`07:57.09`	`nevcairiel`	`mid aluminium is win`
`07:57.19`	`Thrae`	`Well, it used to not be modded`
`07:57.30`	`nocts`	`Wait, that's only a 750 though?`
`07:57.40`	`nocts`	`That's a good $60 more than what I've already spent :P`
`07:58.24`	`Aiiane`	`I <3 thermaltake`
`07:58.42`	`Thrae`	`nocts: You're not seeing the rebate`
`07:59.02`	`nocts`	`I'm not mailing in anything.`
`07:59.04`	`nocts`	`It never goes well.`
`07:59.10`	`nocts`	`And am I missing the sli connectors?`
`07:59.12`	`Kalroth`	`points at the sticker on Thrae's neck; "$10 rebate"`
`07:59.26`	`nocts`	`Oh ther it is`
`07:59.33`	`Thrae`	`PSUs don't come with SLI connectors...`
`07:59.47`	`nocts`	`:P The PSU power connector.`
`07:59.50`	`nocts`	`Think.`
`08:00.28`	`Thrae`	`Right, that's just a type PCI-E power connector, I wouldn't call it a "SLI Connector". The only thing I would is the bridge.`
`08:00.28`	`Kalroth`	`The PSU CPU SLI GPU DDR PWR connector!`
`08:01.14`	`Zhinjio`	`I miss putting together systems`
`08:01.16`	`Thrae`	`s#type#type of#`
`08:01.17`	`Zhinjio`	`haven't done one in awhile`
`08:01.29`	`Fogger`	`The WTF OMG BBQ connector?`
`08:01.39`	`Thrae`	`I get to put together SLI and Crossfire systems at work and then see how well World of Warcraft runs on them.`
`08:01.40`	`Zhinjio`	`last one was for my mame cabinet`
`08:01.45`	`Zhinjio`	`and that doesn't reallycount`
`08:01.49`	`*** join/#wowace [Liquidor] (n=denras19@fw-tk-1.ruc.dk)`
`08:02.13`	`Kalroth`	`if SLI is two cards, what is three cards called then?`
`08:02.21`	`nocts`	`SLII?`
`08:02.25`	`nevcairiel`	`tripple SLI`
`08:02.25`	`Zhinjio`	`two many`
`08:02.30`	`nocts`	`Or is it SLIII like rocky III?`
`08:02.31`	`Zhinjio`	`too many`
`08:02.32`	`Zhinjio`	`heh`
`08:02.39`	`Kalroth`	`TRI of course!`
`08:02.43`	`CIA-51`	`cork: 03Tekkub 07master * ra57a21e 10/ (Cork.toc README.textile modules/ShamanEarthShield.lua): Add shaman earth shield module, tracks the last group member you cast on - http://is.gd/2f1Q`
`08:02.43`	`Aiiane`	`um.. three cards is still just SLI`
`08:02.50`	`Zhinjio`	`alright, I need some food. idle a bit.`
`08:02.54`	`Kalroth`	`No, need fancy buzzword.`
`08:03.01`	`nevcairiel`	`there is(or was) even Quad-SLI`
`08:03.05`	`Aiiane`	`SLI = scalable link interface, has nothing to do with the # of cards :P`
`08:03.05`	`Kalroth`	`Cannot sell product without fancy buzzword.`
`08:03.09`	`nevcairiel`	`i dont think nvidia continued that idea though`
`08:03.17`	`Kalroth`	`SLI-3 sounds cool too`
`08:03.26`	`nocts`	`sli^4`
`08:03.53`	`Thrae`	`There's Two-Way SLI or just "SLI", Three-Way SLI, Quad SLI, and Hybrid SLI.`
`08:04.07`	`Kalroth`	`I want Penta SLI then`
`08:04.20`	`nocts`	`OmniSLI`
`08:04.26`	`Thrae`	`I think your computer would catch on fire from all the heat.`
`08:04.28`	`nocts`	`PerpetualMotionSLI`
`08:04.34`	`Kalroth`	`QuantumSLI`
`08:04.53`	`Kalroth`	`It's like all SLIs at the same time`
`08:05.04`	`Thrae`	`Three-Way SLI is HOT, as in burning my fingers just being NEAR it.`
`08:05.14`	`*** join/#wowace yoshimo (n=kalahass@p5B0C32CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`08:05.25`	`Thrae`	`Mostly because it's those GTS cards which are hot to begin with.`
`08:05.34`	`nocts`	`^`
`08:05.59`	`Thrae`	`Three-Way 280s would probably catch something on fire.`
`08:06.27`	`nocts`	`It's SLI all the way down.`
`08:06.31`	`Kalroth`	`You could use it to heat your apartment and garden`
`08:06.45`	`*** join/#wowace Whitetooth (n=hotdogee@118.169.192.122)`
`08:08.19`	`nocts`	`Thrae: Do you really think the 650 3 rail is going to be an issue on that setup, even slightly overclocked?`
`08:09.41`	`Thrae`	`Speaking of offloading work, CUDA will be available to all G80-based chipsets, which include the 8800GT (G92) and 9800 GTX+ (G92). You can even offload some of CUDA's work to another Nvidia graphics card, even if the card isn't in SLI (so it can be a different chipset entirely).`
`08:10.20`	`*** join/#wowace Whitetooth (n=hotdogee@118.169.192.122)`
`08:10.38`	`Thrae`	`To those unaware, CUDA is Nvidia's incorporation of PhysX and higher physics functionality. How falling works, how smoothly you move, etc. is handled through physics.`
`08:10.44`	`WobWork`	`anyone here use auctioneer?`
`08:10.46`	`WobWork`	`advanced`
`08:10.49`	`Thrae`	`nocts: Yes. I was never debating that.`
`08:11.04`	`nocts`	`Thanks cutey.`
`08:11.24`	`nevcairiel`	`isnt CUDA just a general API to run floating point operations on the GPU?`
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`08:11.59`	`Thrae`	`nevcairiel: That's oversimplifying it.`
`08:12.13`	`nevcairiel`	`well its not specifcally for physics either`
`08:13.19`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle * r81386 10/branches/SimpleSelfRebuff/ (10 files in 6 dirs): SimpleSelfRebuff: porting to Ace3`
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`08:13.52`	`Thrae`	`nevcairiel: True, but that's generally the most intensive task to compute, which is why most of the tech demos focus on physics.`
`08:14.31`	`thul`	`ooh, the rumored canon cam is NEARING!`
`08:14.46`	`nocts`	`thul: ?`
`08:14.51`	`nevcairiel`	`CUDA is so simple to use, i wanted to write a demo application to compare CPU to GPU processing power on some FPU tasks`
`08:14.58`	`Thrae`	`nevcairiel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA`
`08:15.06`	`nevcairiel`	`I've seen the wiki`
`08:15.37`	`Thrae`	`Fine, then http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_processing_unit`
`08:16.07`	`dodga`	`booyakashakazulu, 1.0 in my exam. CG/VIS is teh shite:>`
`08:16.10`	`thul`	`http://www.canon-europe.com/ <- teasers nocts a new fullframe body`
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`08:17.41`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81387 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/ (. libs/): SimpleSelfRebuff: updated externals.`
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`08:19.07`	`thul`	`http://www.canon.com/moon/en/index.html <- there too nocts`
`08:19.09`	`thul`	`and i waaaaant it now`
`08:19.16`	`nocts`	`Awesome :) Best wishes`
`08:20.25`	`nevcairiel`	`they seriously do teasers for a camera?`
`08:21.51`	`Kalroth`	`lol`
`08:21.59`	`Kalroth`	`That's one slutty camera!`
`08:22.08`	`nocts`	`rofl`
`08:22.20`	`nocts`	`kids these days and leaving their shutters open,.`
`08:22.22`	`nocts`	`NO SHAME`
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`08:24.24`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81388 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/ (9 files in 2 dirs):`
`08:24.24`	`CIA-51`	`SimpleSelfRebuff:`
`08:24.24`	`CIA-51`	`- ported locales and moved them in their own directory.`
`08:24.24`	`CIA-51`	`- typo in SimpleSelfRebuff.lua.`
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`08:25.13`	`dodga`	`So, no exams anymore. Giev beta key!`
`08:25.32`	`nocts`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:25.33`	`WobWork`	`nevcairiel: hm, still crashes`
`08:25.35`	`WobWork`	`that's terrible`
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`08:28.38`	`*** mode/#wowace [+o MoonWolf] by ChanServ`
`08:28.39`	`Lukian`	`grrr`
`08:28.52`	`digmouse`	`3.0.2 tomorrow and NAXX?`
`08:29.02`	`Lukian`	`one of the addons I just updated is screwing with FramesResized (and my questlog)`
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`08:31.37`	`thul`	`nevcairiel: haha, teasers for cameras?! OF COURSE!`
`08:31.56`	`thul`	`rumor threads on forums for wotlk is just baby stuff compared to the rumor threads for this camera :-)`
`08:32.29`	`thul`	`and yes, that IS a slutty camera :-(`
`08:32.36`	`thul`	`imagine teasing a poor soul like me`
`08:33.17`	`Daemona`	`i cant wait for the sept. 9th battle between microsoft and apple ;)`
`08:33.25`	`Daemona`	`both seem to want to announce "important stuff"`
`08:35.24`	`thul`	`hehe`
`08:38.11`	`Lukian`	`elsia in here?`
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`08:38.19`	`Lukian`	`hmm nm`
`08:38.25`	`Lukian`	`issue resolved itself, weird`
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`08:39.46`	`nocts`	`Lukian`
`08:39.50`	`nocts`	`I am your father.`
`08:40.05`	`*** join/#wowace Lyn (n=Lyn@Lc71b.l.pppool.de)`
`08:40.07`	`[Liquidor]`	`Haha check this out. Ever noticed your female Dr gets angry when in the water? :P http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/Paracropolis/rh/bb47213b.jpg`
`08:40.09`	`Zyndrome`	`bleh, didn't see the latest mmo-champion post :<`
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`08:40.59`	`Fisker-`	`finds WobWork`
`08:41.02`	`Fisker-`	`destroys`
`08:54.04`	`CIA-51`	`bartender4: 03Hendrik Leppkes 07wrath * r93ad423 10/ (Bar.lua Bartender4.toc libs/SimpleSticky.lua): Added simple Bar-snapping support, more to come - http://is.gd/2f6k`
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`09:03.59`	`NeoTron`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqvTI3MAw4Y`
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`09:04.04`	`nevcairiel`	`Who-ever couldnt live without snapping of bars, there BT4 for Wrath now has it again`
`09:05.07`	`NeoTron`	`that would be me`
`09:05.14`	`*** join/#wowace Ironhand (i=x@xyx.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`09:05.15`	`NeoTron`	`and I will indeed try it out`
`09:05.25`	`NeoTron`	`tomorrow`
`09:05.39`	`NeoTron`	`so DK's have about 30% more sustained DPS than rogues in equal gear. WORKING AS INTENDED`
`09:05.52`	`NeoTron`	`or as blizzard puts it "too much damage" :P`
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`09:06.14`	`nevcairiel`	`I might have to fine-tune the offset of the snapping`
`09:06.22`	`nevcairiel`	`so tell me if it looks off`
`09:06.22`	`nevcairiel`	`:P`
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`09:06.53`	`NeoTron`	`nods`
`09:07.02`	`NeoTron`	`probalby not THAT picky as long as it's snappy`
`09:07.09`	`NeoTron`	`I just couldn't stand them moving around :P`
`09:07.43`	`nevcairiel`	`its only snappy for now, i want to do true sticky at some point`
`09:07.50`	`nevcairiel`	`(you stick them once, and they move as one)`
`09:07.54`	`nevcairiel`	`but not sure how to do that yet`
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`09:10.50`	`Stanzilla`	`are you using FlyPaper?`
`09:10.54`	`nevcairiel`	`no`
`09:11.02`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81389 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/ (4 files in 4 dirs):`
`09:11.02`	`CIA-51`	`SimpleSelfRebuff:`
`09:11.02`	`CIA-51`	`- switched from Ace2 custom events to internal signals using CBH,`
`09:11.02`	`CIA-51`	`- updated all timer and bucket handling.`
`09:11.12`	`Adirelle\|work`	`there is libstickyframe too`
`09:11.16`	`CIA-51`	`bartender4: 03Hendrik Leppkes 07wrath * rb457d05 10/ (Bar.lua libs/SimpleSticky.lua): Add WorldFrame and UIParent to the list of frames to snap to and tweak sticky code - http://is.gd/2f7E`
`09:11.24`	`nevcairiel`	`libstickyframes sucks`
`09:11.29`	`Adirelle\|work`	`about what ?`
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`09:13.08`	`nevcairiel`	`I use the good old stickframes lib by cladhaire with a few tweaks to tell me what the frame snapped to`
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`09:14.19`	`Adirelle\|work`	`even if the libstickframe implementation sucked, having all registered frame sticking together was neat`
`09:14.19`	`nevcairiel`	`not using a sucky implementation just because its functionality is neat`
`09:14.19`	`Adirelle\|work`	`ok ^^`
`09:14.19`	`Adirelle\|work`	`too bad`
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`09:14.41`	`Adirelle\|work`	`seeing that several addons can sticky their own frames together but not with the other ones is quite frustrating`
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`09:17.03`	*** join/#wowace vince` (i=vschiu@adsl-75-62-180-17.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
`09:17.47`	`*** join/#wowace Esine (i=dbguy@tohveli.net)`
`09:18.14`	`*** join/#wowace Geniack (n=geniack@modemcable110.207-70-69.mc.videotron.ca)`
`09:18.23`	`*** join/#wowace Shefki (n=breser@fornix.brain.org)`
`09:18.29`	`*** join/#wowace kadrahil (i=webfreak@xor.pablotron.org)`
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`09:23.28`	`*** join/#wowace xemacs (i=xemacs@stress-kind.de)`
`09:23.57`	`NeoTron`	`btw useless stats - we wipes some 288 times on Muru`
`09:25.51`	`Mera`	`on my server 0 guild killed it :x`
`09:28.17`	`*** join/#wowace WyriHaximus (n=jezussie@i131220.upc-i.chello.nl)`
`09:29.40`	`*** join/#wowace Jygga (i=Jygga@port-212-202-202-34.dynamic.qsc.de)`
`09:30.31`	`Megalon`	`8 here :O`
`09:30.55`	`NeoTron`	`we were 4th`
`09:30.58`	`NeoTron`	`1 KJ kill`
`09:31.02`	`*** join/#wowace eoM_rM (n=moe@p5489F9D5.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`09:31.08`	`nevcairiel`	`we are still wiping on muru :(`
`09:31.19`	`nevcairiel`	`And frankly, i dont see him die before expansion just yet`
`09:31.23`	`*** join/#wowace ins\away (n=ins@83.101.37.128)`
`09:35.17`	`*** join/#wowace mikezter_ (n=Miranda@pD95352C7.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`09:37.20`	`*** join/#wowace Zhinjio (i=1000@70.91.168.58)`
`09:38.07`	`Stanzilla`	`same here`
`09:39.00`	`Zyndrome`	`count us in`
`09:39.08`	`*** join/#wowace Aurica (n=silowyi_@24-155-117-69.dyn.grandenetworks.net)`
`09:39.42`	`Zyndrome`	`I think we wont get him down until the content patch`
`09:41.27`	`*** join/#wowace Movix (n=mattes@82.242.144.196)`
`09:41.52`	`Groktar`	`how are you doing on him?`
`09:42.07`	`Groktar`	`we're up to 4 kills now`
`09:42.10`	`Zyndrome`	`20% phase 2 ...`
`09:42.14`	`Zyndrome`	`guild best`
`09:42.22`	`Zyndrome`	`or server best actually :P`
`09:42.26`	`Groktar`	`:)`
`09:43.12`	`Zyndrome`	`still people panic and run like beheaded chickens when phase 2 starts`
`09:43.29`	`Groktar`	`ahh`
`09:43.32`	`Groktar`	`how long are you living?`
`09:44.21`	`Zyndrome`	`not long enough for a kill, thats for sure`
`09:44.25`	`Groktar`	`we used to transition him just before a new wave, but we do him just before the second sentinel on the 4th wave now`
`09:44.28`	`*** join/#wowace Gandharva (n=Miranda@ppp-62-216-218-75.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`09:44.33`	`Groktar`	`seemed like the transition went a lot smoother that way`
`09:45.37`	`Groktar`	`we also do the eye of kilrogg trick at the beginning`
`09:45.38`	`Zyndrome`	`think we do that too, but since our GM change tacts every now and then...`
`09:45.56`	`Groktar`	`it's pretty win getting him to 60% by the first sentinel`
`09:46.05`	`Groktar`	`everyone goes into p2 with a lot more mana`
`09:46.14`	`Zyndrome`	`we don't use any tricks :C`
`09:46.31`	`Groktar`	`i totally recommend the eye of kilrogg trick`
`09:46.52`	`Groktar`	`everyone stands outside, hit him with an eye and immediately despawn`
`09:47.10`	`Groktar`	`muru despawns and you have 40 seconds before he comes back`
`09:47.23`	`Zyndrome`	`yeh, got respawn-timers`
`09:47.32`	`Zyndrome`	`BigWigs that is :o`
`09:48.07`	`Zyndrome`	`everyone at their position and can get to pew pew right away eh`
`09:48.11`	`Groktar`	`ya`
`09:48.20`	`Groktar`	`like, after a while p1 isn't the fight`
`09:49.01`	`Zyndrome`	`now if our feral tank would unbind Swipe from his bars, as sheeps are there for a reason :P`
`09:49.12`	`Groktar`	`hehe`
`09:49.28`	`Groktar`	`ya, we sheep a zerker on ranged side`
`09:49.40`	`Groktar`	`keep a prot warrior on that side tho`
`09:49.44`	`Groktar`	`melee side doesn't sheep`
`09:50.02`	`Groktar`	`feral picks up both zerkers, dps warrior intercepts the mage`
`09:50.32`	`Lyn`	`Zyndrome, do you have a warlock on beta? :x`
`09:50.41`	`Groktar`	`and then the druid has nice aggro on the zerkers by the time the stun is over and kinda half-heartedly tanks the mage`
`09:50.46`	`Zyndrome`	`no I dont have any lollock`
`09:50.54`	`Groktar`	`zomg premades`
`09:51.23`	`Lyn`	`I just want to know if they no really have green fire :P`
`09:51.48`	`*** join/#wowace cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics)`
`09:52.59`	*** join/#wowace vince` (i=vschiu@adsl-75-62-180-17.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
`09:55.47`	`nevcairiel`	`wtf is broken with the beta now`
`09:56.44`	`Kalroth`	`did you break it`
`09:56.46`	`Kalroth`	`I bet you did`
`09:56.57`	`Lyn`	`xD`
`09:58.09`	`Groktar`	`hates nevcairiel forever for breaking beta`
`09:58.49`	`*** join/#wowace Kirkburn (n=Kirkburn@wikia/Kirkburn)`
`10:00.30`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81390 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/ (9 files in 5 dirs):`
`10:00.30`	`CIA-51`	`SimpleSelfRebuff:`
`10:00.30`	`CIA-51`	`- ported module options to AceConfig-3.0,`
`10:00.30`	`CIA-51`	`- got rid of FuBarPlugin, welcome LibDataBroker !`
`10:01.01`	`*** join/#wowace ^kiki^ (n=kiki@mna75-12-88-165-241-233.fbx.proxad.net)`
`10:01.11`	`CIA-51`	`bartender4: 03Hendrik Leppkes 07wrath * r27dcb23 10/ Bar.lua : Refactor the fade-out option to use the new state functionality`
`10:01.12`	`^kiki^`	`Hi`
`10:02.14`	`^kiki^`	`Is there someone that can explain me, why ChatThrottle is not unqueuing messages in the same order they were queue (for the same queue)?`
`10:03.09`	`nevcairiel`	`There is priority involved too`
`10:03.16`	`^kiki^`	`(with same prio)`
`10:03.37`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81391 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/ (8 files in 5 dirs): SimpleSelfRebuff: moved all modules into one directory.`
`10:04.02`	`^kiki^`	`I mean, I made a loop that use ChatThrottlelib:SendChatMessage() (with same prefix, prio, queueName), and the messages are effectivelly output to the channel... in a different order`
`10:04.37`	`^kiki^`	`(I printed the messages into 2 tables in Chatthrottlelib, one when queueing, and one when unqueuing)`
`10:04.45`	`Stanzilla`	`Adirelle\|work: could you make the part that requires LibPeriodicTable optional so it doesn't error? :P`
`10:04.59`	`nevcairiel`	`I suggest you head over to #WoWUIDev and ask Mikk about it, since he wrote it :)`
`10:05.12`	`^kiki^`	`oh ok thanks, wrong channel :D`
`10:05.16`	`Adirelle\|work`	`Stanzilla: it's the item part`
`10:05.23`	`Adirelle\|work`	`why does it error ?`
`10:05.23`	`Stanzilla`	`yes I know`
`10:05.35`	`Adirelle\|work`	`or btw, what is the error ?`
`10:05.53`	`CIA-51`	`03whitetooth * r81392 10StatLogicLib/StatLogic-1.0/StatLogic-1.0.lua:`
`10:05.53`	`CIA-51`	`StatLogicLib:`
`10:05.53`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: DeathKnight Pasive: Forceful Deflection (Increases your Parry Rating by 25% of your total Strength.)`
`10:05.53`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: Hunter Buff: Aspect of the Viper no longer gives MP5 from Int`
`10:05.53`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: Hunter Talent: Careful Aim now adds 33%/66%/100% RAP from Int`
`10:05.53`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: Shaman: 1 AP from 1 Agi, 1AP from 1 Str`
`10:06.12`	`Stanzilla`	`I meant it should not error when LibPeriodicTable is not present and just not work instead :P`
`10:06.24`	`Adirelle\|work`	`oh, ok, why not...`
`10:06.29`	`Stanzilla`	`:)`
`10:06.41`	`Adirelle\|work`	`You remove it by hand, because it is embedded by default ?`
`10:07.00`	`Stanzilla`	`yes`
`10:07.34`	`Adirelle\|work`	`I'll consider making it a disembeddable module`
`10:07.48`	`Stanzilla`	`cool :)`
`10:07.49`	`Adirelle\|work`	`I'm off, gotta eat`
`10:07.53`	`Stanzilla`	`cu`
`10:09.46`	`*** join/#wowace harl (i=harl@dslb-088-077-131-166.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`10:23.17`	`*** join/#wowace evl (n=evl@195.159.161.2)`
`10:25.01`	`evl`	`I want to monitor the uptime of SnD and display a bar when it's up with it's remaining duration, what would be the most effective way to monitor a player buff like that?`
`10:25.25`	`^kiki^`	`I made an addon that do just that`
`10:25.44`	`^kiki^`	`called BarBuffs`
`10:26.04`	`^kiki^`	`want it?`
`10:26.06`	`evl`	`yeah :)`
`10:26.15`	`evl`	`be ware I might gut it, my needs are specific :P`
`10:26.23`	`^kiki^`	`give me a sec, I'll release the wow 3.0 compatible version`
`10:30.51`	`^kiki^`	`ok, http://christophe.calmejane.free.fr/wow/BarBuffs-3.0.zip`
`10:31.45`	`evl`	`french software?!`
`10:31.48`	`evl`	`... okay, thanks ;)`
`10:32.18`	`^kiki^`	`yeah :D`
`10:32.44`	`^kiki^`	`if you have any issue/question, go to my forum there (http://christophe.calmejane.free.fr/wow/phpBB2)`
`10:33.15`	`^kiki^`	`no UI yet, but you can customize everything from the localization.lua file, and some ingame (using /bb help)`
`10:33.24`	`evl`	`ok thanks`
`10:33.47`	`^kiki^`	`(from localization, monitored spells, bar scaling, flashing, ...)`
`10:34.53`	`evl`	`there's still an underlying problem`
`10:34.57`	`evl`	`if I have a 5 second SnD up`
`10:35.04`	`evl`	`and I refresh it, UNIT_AURA won't fire afaik`
`10:35.15`	`^kiki^`	`this is handled properly :)`
`10:35.30`	`^kiki^`	`I use the addon since 2006`
`10:35.34`	`evl`	`ooh ok :)`
`10:35.51`	`Jygga`	`uhm if a translation is registered twice, does that mean i got two versions of the same addon loaded somehow?`
`10:36.16`	`nevcairiel`	`Jygga: thats most likely a error with unpacking addons`
`10:36.19`	`nevcairiel`	`like BigWigs`
`10:38.30`	`Jygga`	`okay will redo the related addons and see if it helps, thank you :)`
`10:39.52`	`*** join/#wowace WoWLuaircBot (n=WoWLuair@96.244.5.80)`
`10:46.18`	`Jygga`	`oh and what would be the next best way to find out which addon is refocussing the map on self periodically after enabling/disabling single maprelated addons and reloadui?`
`10:46.41`	`*** part/#wowace ^kiki^ (n=kiki@mna75-12-88-165-241-233.fbx.proxad.net)`
`10:47.45`	`evl`	`how many buffs can a player have?`
`10:47.47`	`evl`	`16?`
`10:47.58`	`Thrae`	`32`
`10:48.07`	`evl`	`is that in a constant somewhere`
`10:48.13`	`nevcairiel`	`dont think so`
`10:48.18`	`nevcairiel`	`or well, probably it is`
`10:48.19`	`nevcairiel`	`in C :P`
`10:48.30`	`Jygga`	`im using cartographer, is there a way to monitor which addon might cause it? maybe by adding a happy putlog line somewhere?`
`10:48.30`	`evl`	`alas you are wrong`
`10:48.37`	`*** join/#wowace WoW-Bot (n=WoW-Bot@96.244.5.80)`
`10:48.39`	`evl`	`BuffFrame.lua BUFF_MAX_DISPLAY`
`10:48.48`	`evl`	`!`
`10:48.51`	`nevcairiel`	`max display doesnt mean max buffs`
`10:49.14`	`nevcairiel`	`DEBUFF_MAX_DISPLAY is 16`
`10:49.20`	`nevcairiel`	`although you can have 40 debuffs`
`10:49.25`	`evl`	`that scares me`
`10:49.56`	`*** join/#wowace [SW]Dodge (n=Miranda@p5B00AD25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`11:01.23`	`*** join/#wowace Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano)`
`11:02.00`	`Lyn`	`Fisker-, you have sporen ow?`
`11:02.49`	`*** join/#wowace [dRaCo] (n=drc@p5B229AA2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`11:09.03`	`Jygga`	`okay trying to be more specific... what would you do to monitor which addons are calling Cartographer:SetCurrentInstance(zone) my first guess was simply screwing it up so it throws an error visible in bugsack but that just made cartographer not loading :P`
`11:10.21`	`Jygga`	`is there a "right" way to screw it up? since changing a variable name didnt do it`
`11:22.13`	`*** join/#wowace Aurica (n=silowyi_@24-155-117-69.dyn.grandenetworks.net)`
`11:25.07`	`*** join/#wowace cncfanatics (n=cncfanat@WoWUIDev/cncfanatics)`
`11:26.03`	`*** join/#wowace Elkano (n=elkano@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Elkano)`
`11:26.43`	`*** join/#wowace fsuser001 (n=fsuser00@81-231-83-249-no38.tbcn.telia.com)`
`11:32.14`	`*** join/#wowace xemacs (i=xemacs@stress-kind.de)`
`11:33.03`	`*** join/#wowace Obble (i=Obble@user-514dd168.l4.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk)`
`11:34.16`	`*** join/#wowace cncfanatics1 (n=cncfanat@137.80-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)`
`11:36.08`	`dodga`	`http://www.snotr.com/video/834 w00t`
`11:37.03`	`*** join/#wowace Aurica (n=silowyi_@24-155-117-69.dyn.grandenetworks.net)`
`11:38.34`	`orionshock`	`ok, anyone else creep'ed out by the BuiltIn Quest helper?`
`11:39.21`	`cladhaire`	`orionshock: hrm?`
`11:40.09`	`cladhaire`	`what do you mean?`
`11:40.14`	`orionshock`	`blizz puts a gold arrow on the map when your near a quest objective`
`11:40.25`	`cladhaire`	`oooh interesting`
`11:40.31`	`Arrowmaster`	`old`
`11:40.31`	`cladhaire`	`have a screenshot?`
`11:40.37`	`[Ammo]`	`it has done that for ages`
`11:40.39`	`cladhaire`	`or wait`
`11:40.40`	`cladhaire`	`yeah`
`11:40.43`	`orionshock`	`[Ammo]: ?`
`11:40.43`	`[Ammo]`	`just doesn't work all the time`
`11:40.44`	`cladhaire`	`<PROTECTED>`
`11:40.51`	`[Ammo]`	`ah yeah`
`11:40.54`	`orionshock`	`eh....`
`11:41.02`	`[Ammo]`	`it has done that for years :p`
`11:41.11`	`Arrowmaster`	`only works on like maybe 20 quests total, and you have to select the quest in the quest log first`
`11:41.12`	`cladhaire`	`since release`
`11:41.15`	`orionshock`	`no... never seen that before`
`11:41.25`	`cladhaire`	`well its been there`
`11:41.30`	`cladhaire`	`was there when I first started`
`11:41.46`	`orionshock`	`got to say, never seen it before`
`11:41.46`	`Arrowmaster`	`it only works on 'go here' quests i think`
`11:42.04`	`cladhaire`	`perhaps they are adding more info`
`11:42.10`	`Obble`	`I don't think i've ever that before, but then i didn't realise about nameplates for a year :P`
`11:42.12`	`orionshock`	`i've got a "go kill this person" quest and it showed up`
`11:42.21`	`orionshock`	`and i've seen it on nearly every single quest i've had`
`11:42.29`	`[Ammo]`	`maybe they improved it`
`11:42.40`	`Arrowmaster`	`was that person in a static location?`
`11:42.46`	`orionshock`	`no`
`11:42.55`	`orionshock`	`quite much so a moving mob`
`11:43.22`	`cladhaire`	`cool`
`11:43.35`	`orionshock`	`cladhaire: say it with me`
`11:43.37`	`orionshock`	`Creepy`
`11:43.39`	`cladhaire`	`no`
`11:43.41`	`cladhaire`	`cool`
`11:43.48`	`cladhaire`	`hunting for shit isn't fun`
`11:44.05`	`orionshock`	`i know.. tomtom refuses to work on beta now in northrend :\`
`11:44.31`	`cladhaire`	`download the new astrolabe`
`11:44.46`	`orionshock`	`.... right like i know where that is :P`
`11:44.53`	`orionshock`	`<PROTECTED>`
`11:45.05`	`cladhaire`	`http://svn.esamynn.org/astrolabe/branches/wotlk_data_temp/`
`11:45.34`	`orionshock`	`... ok.... that help, thanks :D`
`11:47.17`	`Megalon`	`aww man, http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=55016 best boot enchant ever, owns as a druid, you can get out of combat from just everything without dying :>`
`11:48.19`	`cladhaire`	`very cool!`
`11:49.13`	`Megalon`	`just mash it until you get bombed into the air, wait for ooc, flight form, win!`
`11:49.36`	`*** join/#wowace Whitetooth (n=chatzill@118.169.192.122)`
`11:49.37`	`orionshock`	`thank you cladhaire i was going though quest withdraws because of that addon not working.`
`11:51.54`	`CIA-51`	`03jokeyrhyme * r81393 10FuBar_RaidSaveFu/RaidSaveFu.lua:`
`11:51.56`	`CIA-51`	`FuBar_RaidSaveFu:`
`11:51.58`	`CIA-51`	`- okay, this is hopefully the last time I say that the INSTANCE_SAVED message is actually properly detected, /sigh`
`11:55.39`	`cncfanatics`	`:o`
`11:55.52`	`cncfanatics`	`my guild cleared 3/4 TK & 5/6 ssc in a single night (we started raiding this mondayÃ`
`11:56.34`	`*** join/#wowace bindi (n=indigo@d54C6B44C.access.telenet.be)`
`11:59.02`	`CIA-51`	`03whitetooth * r81394 10StatLogicLib/StatLogic-1.0/StatLogic-1.0.lua: (log message trimmed)`
`11:59.06`	`CIA-51`	`StatLogicLib:`
`11:59.11`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: Druid Talent: Lunar Guidance: Increases your spell damage and healing by 4%/8%/12% of your total Intellect`
`11:59.17`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: Druid Talent: Nurturing Instinct: Increases your healing spells by up to 35%/70% of your Agility`
`11:59.26`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: Druid Talent: Intensity: moved to 3,7`
`11:59.33`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: Druid Talent: Dreamstate: moved to 1,15`
`11:59.35`	`*** mode/#wowace [+o [Ammo]] by ChanServ`
`11:59.38`	`CIA-51`	`- Druid Talent Buff: Natural Perfection: effect reducing all damage taken by 2%/3%/4%`
`12:05.34`	`*** join/#wowace copystring (n=copystri@p548A065E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`12:05.39`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81395 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/ (7 files in 4 dirs): SimpleSelfRebuff: smoke test passed: it is working except the LDB object.`
`12:11.56`	`*** join/#wowace blay (n=KevFlow@50.206.8.67.cfl.res.rr.com)`
`12:14.31`	`CIA-51`	`03ammo 07RC1 * r81396 10Ace3/AceTab-3.0/AceTab-3.0.lua:`
`12:14.31`	`CIA-51`	`Ace3 - AceTab-3.0:`
`12:14.31`	`CIA-51`	`- Backport Sylvanaar's fix from WotlK branch`
`12:14.31`	`CIA-51`	`- Fixes lockup`
`12:15.48`	`*** join/#wowace ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight)`
`12:15.48`	`*** mode/#wowace [+o ckknight] by ChanServ`
`12:17.00`	`evl`	`[Ammo] is a girl`
`12:19.35`	`*** join/#wowace JensRex (i=Jens@pdpc/supporter/active/Jens)`
`12:23.05`	`CIA-51`	`03sylvanaar * r81397 10Prat-3.0/ (addon/addon.lua modules/ChatLink.lua):`
`12:23.05`	`CIA-51`	`Prat-3.0 (Alpha):`
`12:23.05`	`CIA-51`	`Some tweaks to chatlink to handle the additonal player level data in`
`12:23.05`	`CIA-51`	`itemlinks.`
`12:36.55`	`Kalroth`	`NeoTron: there?`
`12:39.32`	`Pneumatus`	`anyone know if its possible to make autobar not move stuff around in my bags when i use items?`
`12:40.41`	`Pneumatus`	`like, whenever i used a healthstone, it moves my Charged Crystal Focus to that slot`
`12:42.54`	`SunTsu`	`Pneumatus: Turn off shuffle`
`12:42.55`	`Ellipsis`	`that's kind of the point of it`
`12:43.00`	`Ellipsis`	`o.O`
`12:43.32`	`SunTsu`	`Pneumatus: But you won't be able to use another item in combat anymore when one thing is depleted`
`12:43.40`	`Pneumatus`	`oh`
`12:43.57`	`Pneumatus`	`well, its not like it copes very well picking a new top item anyway`
`12:44.08`	`Pneumatus`	`i end up with half stacks of mana poitions all over the place`
`12:46.43`	`*** join/#wowace kilrogg (n=kilrogg@muedsl-82-207-235-026.citykom.de)`
`12:48.25`	`*** join/#wowace Lopen\|Wooork (n=lopen@207.74.131.76)`
`12:54.25`	`CIA-51`	`03anadale * r81398 10UnderHood/Modules/ (3 files in 3 dirs):`
`12:54.25`	`CIA-51`	`UnderHood:`
`12:54.25`	`CIA-51`	`- Aura name is taken into account when updating unit auras`
`12:54.25`	`CIA-51`	`- "Blue Box" bug fixed for text frames`
`13:00.40`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle * r81399 10Broker2FuBar/pluginPrototype.lua:`
`13:00.40`	`CIA-51`	`Broker2FuBar:`
`13:00.40`	`CIA-51`	`- fixed a bug where the plugin icon was not updated when the .icon attribute was changed,`
`13:00.40`	`CIA-51`	`- the plugins now only register callbacks while enabled.`
`13:02.35`	`*** join/#wowace charon (n=thomas@unaffiliated/charon)`
`13:02.49`	`*** join/#wowace EvilJohn (n=eviljohn@67.110.71.2.ptr.us.xo.net)`
`13:04.48`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81400 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/ (4 files in 2 dirs):`
`13:04.48`	`CIA-51`	`SimpleSelfRebuff:`
`13:04.48`	`CIA-51`	`- the LDB object is now fully functionnal,`
`13:04.48`	`CIA-51`	`- fixed an error in MouseWheelBinding.`
`13:09.14`	`*** join/#wowace Next96 (i=Next96@121.129.140.94)`
`13:10.50`	`*** join/#wowace Daemona (n=koaschte@pD9E2B3D9.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`13:14.15`	`Adirelle\|work`	`Stanzilla: I'm almost done with the "simple" Ace2+FuBarPlugin => Ace3+LDB porting`
`13:14.54`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81401 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/ (3 files in 2 dirs):`
`13:14.58`	`CIA-51`	`SimpleSelfRebuff:`
`13:15.05`	`CIA-51`	`- tweaked some options,`
`13:15.10`	`CIA-51`	`- bumped version to 2.0,`
`13:15.14`	`CIA-51`	`- removed Ace2 from title.`
`13:15.18`	`*** join/#wowace Sliker_Hawk (i=SlikerHa@212.32.125.129)`
`13:22.06`	`*** join/#wowace topsub (n=josh@97.66.185.250)`
`13:22.30`	`Stanzilla`	`Adirelle\|work: nice :D`
`13:22.40`	`Ellipsis`	`eats Stanzilla`
`13:22.45`	`Ellipsis`	`om nom nom!`
`13:23.02`	`Stanzilla`	`Adirelle\|work: locale-frFR.lua wants "if not L then return end" in line 3 :)`
`13:23.11`	`Stanzilla`	`touches Ellipsis`
`13:23.20`	`Adirelle\|work`	`grmbl`
`13:23.55`	`Stanzilla`	`and will LibDebugLog be optional? I hope so! :P`
`13:24.37`	`Fisker-`	`eats Ellipsis`
`13:24.41`	`Fisker-`	`OM NOM NOM`
`13:24.49`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81402 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/ (SimpleSelfRebuff.lua locales/locale-frFR.lua): SimpleSelfRebuff: fixed locale-frFR.lua`
`13:24.50`	`Fisker-`	`>:3 btw`
`13:25.10`	`Ellipsis`	`tickles Fisker- from the inside`
`13:25.25`	`Fisker-`	`digests Ellipsis so teh tickling will stop`
`13:25.54`	`*** join/#wowace kaugummi (n=kaugummi@2002:5091:dae2:55f:20d:93ff:fe87:d832)`
`13:25.58`	`Ellipsis`	`:(`
`13:27.08`	`*** join/#wowace sylvanaar (n=sylvanaa@unaffiliated/sylvanaar)`
`13:28.38`	`*** join/#wowace cubicool (n=cubicool@router.emperor-sw2.exsbs.net)`
`13:28.53`	`CIA-51`	`03sylvanaar * r81403 10Prat-3.0/modules/ChatLink.lua:`
`13:28.53`	`CIA-51`	`Prat-3.0 (Alpha):`
`13:28.53`	`CIA-51`	`Level coloring for quests and less encoded link spamming`
`13:30.34`	VonhintenHOME`	`warhammer preview weekend has started`
`13:30.49`	`Fisker-`	`And noone cared`
`13:30.53`	`sylvanaar`	`wasnt it 2 weeks ago`
`13:31.01`	VonhintenHOME`	`Lots of people care, nipple head!`
`13:31.12`	`Fisker-`	`Well they'd wish they didn't in a couple of weeks`
`13:31.20`	VonhintenHOME`	`There's another one this weekend, starting right before the open beta starts on sunday`
`13:31.57`	`Lyn`	`i want test war :x`
`13:33.14`	`Lyn`	VonhintenHOME`, where can i get an account? gief account nau! :p
`13:33.43`	`*** join/#wowace Lysithea (i=Lyset@c-134ee455.017-172-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`13:34.16`	`*** join/#wowace Higdur (n=nike@nl119-199-202.student.uu.se)`
`13:36.52`	`cladhaire`	`Addons for quick AV turnin?`
`13:36.56`	`Fisker-`	`lol`
`13:37.03`	`Fisker-`	`you can pretty much get keys out the wazoo`
`13:37.09`	`Fisker-`	`just got one on fileplay.net`
`13:37.25`	`Lyn`	`nice :P`
`13:37.35`	`sylvanaar`	`quick turnins? doesnt sspvp still do that`
`13:37.42`	VonhintenHOME`	`I got my account from Preordering the game`
`13:37.46`	`cladhaire`	`looking for something smaller than sspvp`
`13:37.51`	`cladhaire`	`tho i suppose i should just install sspvp`
`13:37.51`	`sylvanaar`	`o`
`13:37.55`	VonhintenHOME`	`The rest of you losers will have to wait for the open beta I guess!`
`13:38.05`	`sylvanaar`	`sspvp > something smaller`
`13:38.31`	`cladhaire`	`hehe yeah`
`13:38.32`	`cladhaire`	`but its good`
`13:38.32`	`sylvanaar`	`cant argue that point!`
`13:38.34`	`Fisker-`	VonhintenHOME` nah
`13:38.36`	`Fisker-`	`Warhammer is shit`
`13:38.41`	`Fisker-`	`so not that jealous`
`13:38.47`	VonhintenHOME`	`You're shit!`
`13:38.52`	`Fisker-`	`no, you are.`
`13:39.00`	`Fisker-`	`http://i36.tinypic.com/15xqpaf.jpg <-awesome captcha btw`
`13:39.15`	VonhintenHOME`	`You're worse than shit, you're shitty shit sheroo`
`13:39.27`	`Fisker-`	`You're worse than me in being shit`
`13:39.43`	VonhintenHOME`	`no u`
`13:39.52`	`Lyn`	`oO;`
`13:39.59`	`*** join/#wowace smcn (i=smcn@c-67-160-186-84.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`13:40.00`	`Lyn`	`you both suck`
`13:40.20`	`smcn`	`:(`
`13:40.37`	`Lyn`	`?`
`13:41.07`	`*** part/#wowace cubicool (n=cubicool@router.emperor-sw2.exsbs.net)`
`13:41.43`	`Fisker-`	`you have sex with men`
`13:41.43`	`Fisker-`	`irl`
`13:41.45`	`Lyn`	`lol okay got a beta key :p`
`13:42.29`	`Fisker-`	`EA put a shit dispenser on several community sites`
`13:42.54`	`Lyn`	`meh the warhammer site sucks`
`13:42.55`	`Lyn`	`lol`
`13:43.47`	VonhintenHOME`	`a shit despenser? A link to your pic?`
`13:44.01`	VonhintenHOME`	`why would EA do that`
`13:44.21`	`Fisker-`	`I mean the beta key thing`
`13:44.52`	`*** join/#wowace smcn (i=smcn@c-67-160-186-84.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`13:44.58`	`Lyn`	`Fisker-, lol, have the same error on captcha :x`
`13:48.25`	`Fisker-`	`Warhammer will probably be worse than AoC`
`13:48.49`	`Fisker-`	`Like if you had to choose between Big Rigs and Warhammer`
`13:48.55`	`Fisker-`	`any sane person would choose Big Rigs`
`13:49.05`	`Throngy`	`i keep being tempted by WAR but then i remember i don't like pvp at all`
`13:49.38`	`*** join/#wowace Kolie (n=kraft@adsl-074-239-065-141.sip.hsv.bellsouth.net)`
`13:49.38`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v Kolie] by ChanServ`
`13:50.12`	`*** join/#wowace ckknight (n=ckknight@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/CurseStaff/CurseForge/ckknight)`
`13:50.12`	`*** mode/#wowace [+o ckknight] by ChanServ`
`13:50.13`	`Lyn`	`it will may be worse than aoc.. but still some nice elementsi n there which could blizzard use - like personal armor recoloring XD`
`13:50.46`	`Throngy`	`even if there is lots of pve stuff to do i think most players will be into the pvp ad would point and laugh at carebears like me`
`13:51.11`	`Fisker-`	`armor recoloring is just stupid`
`13:51.31`	`kenlyric`	`we have armor recoloring in WoW and nobody likes it`
`13:53.05`	`Fisker-`	`So any good place to download that client?`
`13:55.48`	`Fisker-`	why so quiet VonhintenHOME` ?
`13:56.48`	`*** join/#wowace Zenom (n=Zenom@adsl-75-21-186-206.dsl.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net)`
`13:57.47`	`*** join/#wowace Zenom (n=Zenom@adsl-75-21-186-206.dsl.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net)`
`13:58.49`	`*** join/#wowace Zenom (n=Zenom@unaffiliated/aj1973)`
`13:58.50`	VonhintenHOME`	`busy with warhammer, why else!`
`13:59.31`	VonhintenHOME`	`this game will be waaaaaay more successful than AoC`
`13:59.53`	`Anaral`	`I like how Blizz reorganized the the account management page for WoW. Much easier to navigate and even includes a link to download the client & patches.`
`13:59.53`	`thul`	`warhammer is out?`
`14:00.01`	VonhintenHOME`	`Mythic is a solid developer with history in MMO, and lots of folks are aching for a DAoC replacement`
`14:00.29`	`Fisker-`	`Perhaps`
`14:00.30`	VonhintenHOME`	`thul, preview weekend`
`14:00.32`	`Fisker-`	`but it's been EA'd`
`14:00.41`	VonhintenHOME`	`Not really`
`14:00.43`	`thul`	VonhintenHOME`: ah, ok. I do have a beta account, but have not used it yet
`14:00.55`	`Fisker-`	`indeed it has`
`14:01.12`	VonhintenHOME`	`I was present for all DAoC's many years, and this feels very much like Mythic`
`14:01.22`	VonhintenHOME`	`Sure, EA has throw resources and marketing at it`
`14:01.55`	VonhintenHOME`	`Anyway, I need to get a couple hours sleep in before all my friends get on to start playing`
`14:02.00`	VonhintenHOME`	`I'm zombiefied`
`14:02.47`	`CIA-51`	`03pericles 07WotLK * r81404 10ShockAndAwe/ (ShockAndAwe.lua ShockAndAwe.toc config.lua uptime.lua):`
`14:02.47`	`CIA-51`	`ShockAndAwe: -`
`14:02.47`	`CIA-51`	`Drycoded updates`
`14:02.47`	`CIA-51`	`Version 2.14`
`14:02.48`	`CIA-51`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:02.50`	`CIA-51`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:05.27`	`CIA-51`	`03pericles 07WotLK * r81405 10ShockAndAwe/ (config.lua uptime.lua):`
`14:05.32`	`CIA-51`	`ShockAndAwe: -`
`14:05.37`	`CIA-51`	`Added $Id$ tags to config & uptime lua files`
`14:06.52`	`*** join/#wowace \|Jelly\| (n=chatzill@66-169-186-78.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com)`
`14:07.12`	`*** join/#wowace evl (n=evl@c85-196-101-98.static.sdsl.no)`
`14:08.20`	`*** join/#wowace Erica (n=erica647@cpe-075-182-125-019.nc.res.rr.com)`
`14:10.04`	`*** join/#wowace Carancu (n=carancu@c83-255-70-30.bredband.comhem.se)`
`14:14.18`	`*** join/#wowace Fidge (n=JeanYves@host-213-213-223-81.brutele.be)`
`14:18.13`	`*** join/#wowace Camci (n=enescamc@ua-83-227-134-226.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`14:18.20`	`*** part/#wowace erica647 (n=erica647@cpe-075-182-125-019.nc.res.rr.com)`
`14:18.24`	`*** join/#wowace erica647 (n=erica647@cpe-075-182-125-019.nc.res.rr.com)`
`14:18.28`	`*** join/#wowace Fidge (n=Fidge@host-213-213-223-81.brutele.be)`
`14:21.50`	`erica647`	`Trying a new chat client... is this working?`
`14:22.16`	`[dRaCo]`	`no`
`14:22.20`	`erica647`	`hehe`
`14:22.32`	`*** join/#wowace AckisWork (i=8ee559c6@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Troll/Ackis)`
`14:23.15`	`*** part/#wowace erica647 (n=erica647@cpe-075-182-125-019.nc.res.rr.com)`
`14:23.43`	`Camci`	`anyone know a prog where i can see what driver i need? ima reinstall windows, got no idea what driver the other comp needs.. p`
`14:24.13`	`AckisWork`	`runaway train! running running right off the track!`
`14:24.22`	Funkeh`	`home sweet home`
`14:24.35`	`AckisWork`	`~seen Darkguy`
`14:24.37`	`purl`	`darkguy <n=DARKGuy@201.242.97.187> was last seen on IRC in channel #iteam, 8h 10m 24s ago, saying: ':('.`
`14:24.37`	`Stanzilla`	`waves`
`14:24.43`	Funkeh`	`:)`
`14:24.50`	Funkeh`	`fridays ftw`
`14:25.01`	`Ellipsis`	nibbles Funkeh`
`14:25.03`	`AckisWork`	`I finally got to listen to the new ACDC song in its entirety today`
`14:25.17`	Funkeh`	`hugs Ellipsis`
`14:26.13`	`AckisWork`	`hugs AckisWork`
`14:27.07`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle * r81406 10Automaton/modules/Plates.lua: Automaton: fixed nameplate module for WotLK.`
`14:27.09`	Funkeh`	`oh my god`
`14:27.13`	Funkeh`	`age of conan on steam`
`14:27.17`	Funkeh`	`save us`
`14:27.34`	`AckisWork`	`yah I saw that last night`
`14:27.46`	`AckisWork`	`I was wondering if I could input my code for it to work`
`14:27.47`	`Ellipsis`	`anyone know what the heck causes "attempt to call global 'LibStub' (a table value)"`
`14:27.56`	`Ellipsis`	`something somewhere has to be screwing with libstub in a bad way o.O`
`14:28.09`	Funkeh`	`sounds like it`
`14:28.14`	`Fisker-`	`Ellipsis you are supposed to be dead!`
`14:28.32`	`Ellipsis`	`wooo, ghostly sounds, etc.`
`14:28.35`	`Ellipsis`	`anyway`
`14:28.46`	`Ellipsis`	`whatever is causing that error is doing the same to rock`
`14:28.59`	`Ellipsis`	`and the guy claims it started after installing fubar 3.0 or 2.0, not sure which`
`14:29.53`	`Ellipsis`	`well, actually he claims it happened after a WoW crash, but I'm pretty sure that's not the cause`
`14:30.10`	`thul`	`lick`
`14:30.13`	Funkeh`	`I'm thinking for FreeMe wotlk to make a big ass green button on the screen that shows when you have buff X and click it to remove it`
`14:30.44`	`Ellipsis`	`"ass green" eh? what's the rgb for that color?`
`14:31.00`	Funkeh`	`-6,-6,-6`
`14:31.13`	`Ellipsis`	`doesn't look green to me :P`
`14:31.18`	Funkeh`	`whiesht`
`14:31.51`	`nevcairiel`	`colors allow negative?`
`14:32.51`	`AckisWork`	`-6 == 249?`
`14:32.59`	`Josh_Borke`	`~lart nevcairiel`
`14:32.59`	`purl`	`does a little 'dpkg -P nevcairiel' action`
`14:33.05`	`Josh_Borke`	`nevcairiel: your sulfur island is terrible`
`14:33.05`	`AckisWork`	`z mod 255`
`14:33.37`	`nevcairiel`	`best one that was close enough <.<`
`14:34.01`	`nevcairiel`	`had two 18 towns, i thought that would mean _something_ :p`
`14:34.17`	`Ellipsis`	`I love how I can tell when I get logged out of WoW for idling, because my entire computer slows down as it churns on the login screen`
`14:34.19`	`Ellipsis`	`sighs`
`14:35.02`	`AckisWork`	`what's sulfur island?`
`14:35.12`	`*** join/#wowace Aurica (n=silowyi_@24-155-117-69.dyn.grandenetworks.net)`
`14:35.14`	`nevcairiel`	`since dual core i realy dont notice that anymore`
`14:35.32`	`Josh_Borke`	`nevcairiel: yeah, it's just terrible, but oh well`
`14:35.34`	`Ellipsis`	`that's only because wow isn't smart enough to lock up both cores :P`
`14:35.35`	`Josh_Borke`	`it's my 4th colony`
`14:35.50`	`nevcairiel`	`Josh_Borke: same`
`14:35.54`	Funkeh`	`Josh_Borke, lol getting busy?`
`14:36.04`	Funkeh`	`as in started from the start 4 times?`
`14:36.05`	`Josh_Borke`	`i upgraded my wine and marble colonies so i didn't get corruption there`
`14:36.08`	`Ellipsis`	`and if so I'll help`
`14:36.12`	`nevcairiel`	`i upgraded all`
`14:36.14`	`nevcairiel`	`to 4`
`14:36.18`	`nevcairiel`	`before the colony`
`14:36.24`	`Josh_Borke`	`the game is ikariam.com`
`14:36.27`	`Josh_Borke`	`or is it .org?`
`14:36.31`	`Josh_Borke`	`server epsilon`
`14:36.35`	`nevcairiel`	`com`
`14:37.17`	`Josh_Borke`	`i couldn't be bothered to upgrade my crystal colony before i expanded`
`14:38.13`	`nevcairiel`	`building palace3 on my sulfur right now`
`14:38.18`	`Josh_Borke`	`wow, nice`
`14:38.25`	`nevcairiel`	`but 4 will take a while`
`14:38.59`	`Josh_Borke`	`i'm still 4k ahead of you in points! woohoo!`
`14:39.12`	`nevcairiel`	`i dunno why, though`
`14:39.19`	`*** join/#wowace Diskmaster (n=YOURFACE@CPE-76-85-147-197.neb.res.rr.com)`
`14:39.22`	`Josh_Borke`	`i think i'm going to get one more colony`
`14:39.34`	`nevcairiel`	`I doubt that will happen soon`
`14:39.43`	`Josh_Borke`	`i want to have 1x marble, 2 wine, 1 crystal, 1 sulfur`
`14:39.59`	`Josh_Borke`	`i could do it now, but i want to upgrade my towns more`
`14:40.17`	`Josh_Borke`	`another colony would take FOREVER`
`14:40.56`	`nevcairiel`	`palace 5 is way too expensive`
`14:41.03`	`Josh_Borke`	`it's past the softcar`
`14:41.04`	`Josh_Borke`	`erm, cap`
`14:41.06`	`Josh_Borke`	`that's whye`
`14:41.11`	`*** join/#wowace chexsum (n=Douglas@CPE-124-185-65-74.qld.bigpond.net.au)`
`14:41.20`	`*** join/#wowace p3lim (n=p3lim@212251215177.customer.cdi.no)`
`14:41.59`	`Josh_Borke`	`it would take 1 month of saving to have enough marble`
`14:42.37`	`nevcairiel`	`for one upgrad`
`14:42.38`	`nevcairiel`	`+e`
`14:42.41`	`Josh_Borke`	`yea`
`14:42.46`	`Josh_Borke`	`so 6 months to upgrade everything :-P`
`14:43.12`	`Josh_Borke`	`give or take some`
`14:43.24`	`Ellipsis`	`whoa, a phishing mail just got through gmail's filters :o`
`14:43.55`	`nevcairiel`	`Thaank you for your patience. We have moved your stuck character to a new location, which should have resolved the problem. In the event your character is still not available, please contact us again and we will investigate further.`
`14:43.57`	`nevcairiel`	`wooohoo`
`14:44.03`	`nevcairiel`	`also they typoed "Thank"`
`14:44.12`	`Ellipsis`	`grats`
`14:44.13`	`CIA-51`	`03whitetooth * r81407 10StatLogicLib/StatLogic-1.0/StatLogic-1.0.lua: (log message trimmed)`
`14:44.13`	`CIA-51`	`StatLogicLib:`
`14:44.13`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: DeathKnight Talent: Bladed Armor: You gain 5/10/15/20/25 attack power for every 1000 points of your armor value.`
`14:44.14`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: DeathKnight Talent: Veteran of the Third War: Increases your total Strength by 2%/4%/6% and your total Stamina by 1%/2%/3%.`
`14:44.16`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: DeathKnight Talent: Will of the Necropolis: When you have less than 35% health, your total armor increases by 10%/20%/30%.`
`14:44.18`	`Ellipsis`	`it only took them how many days to fix that?`
`14:44.21`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: DeathKnight Talent: Toughness: Increases your armor value from items by 3%/6%/9%/12%/15%`
`14:44.23`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: DeathKnight Talent: Anticipation: Increases your Dodge chance by 1%/2%/3%/4%/5%.`
`14:44.28`	`nevcairiel`	`since monday`
`14:44.34`	`nevcairiel`	`but i filled the new ticket last night`
`14:44.38`	`nevcairiel`	`which got finally answerd`
`14:45.37`	`AckisWork`	`invades nevcairiel`
`14:45.41`	`nevcairiel`	`the only issue is, they didnt actually move my char`
`14:45.49`	`Ellipsis`	`hahaha`
`14:46.23`	`Ellipsis`	`why don't you just get someone to summon you?`
`14:46.24`	`kenlyric`	`what an amazing commit message...`
`14:46.39`	`nevcairiel`	`Ellipsis: cant login`
`14:47.01`	`Ellipsis`	`ouch o.O is it a crash bug or something?`
`14:48.02`	`nevcairiel`	`yea`
`14:48.11`	`Ellipsis`	`lame`
`14:48.41`	`Chaud`	`anyone that has paid a good amount of attention to the wotlk changes around ?`
`14:49.38`	`*** join/#wowace Seerah (n=Ryan_L@adsl-177-4-192.mem.bellsouth.net)`
`14:50.00`	`nevcairiel`	`yay now i can log in`
`14:50.01`	`nevcairiel`	`finally!`
`14:52.00`	`Ellipsis`	`is there something like tomtom that doesn't rely on astrolabe?`
`14:52.02`	`nevcairiel`	`wonder why it initially crashed once`
`14:52.19`	`nevcairiel`	`Ellipsis: Cartographer_Waypoints =P`
`14:52.26`	`Ellipsis`	`not what I meant`
`14:52.39`	`Anaral`	`Ellipsis, Astrolabe has been updated`
`14:52.39`	`Ellipsis`	`I meant something that sacrifices the distance display in order to not require a hard-coded list of zone sizes`
`14:52.39`	`nevcairiel`	`Whats wrong with astrolabe?`
`14:52.53`	`Anaral`	`It works with Wrath now.`
`14:52.53`	`Ellipsis`	`Anaral: I don't care; I don't want it in my UI.`
`14:52.56`	`Ellipsis`	`see above`
`14:53.03`	`nevcairiel`	`You need the zone size for positioning`
`14:53.06`	`nevcairiel`	`not only distance`
`14:53.09`	`Ellipsis`	`no you don't`
`14:53.11`	`Ellipsis`	`you can use coords for that`
`14:53.22`	`Ellipsis`	`I don't need waypoints visible on continent maps`
`14:53.38`	`Ellipsis`	`I just want it to store zone name and coords of each waypoint, and only give me a direction indicator in the same zone`
`14:53.45`	`Ellipsis`	`so I don't need all that extra crap`
`14:53.59`	`nevcairiel`	`one array of zone sizes too much? *shrug`
`14:54.00`	`Ellipsis`	`I'm wondering if someone has already done this or if I should hack it up myself`
`14:54.12`	`Ellipsis`	`yes, it's error-prone and useless to me`
`14:54.30`	`Ellipsis`	`also I dislike tomtom's design which fails at even giving same-zone direction indicators when astrolabe data is not present`
`14:55.03`	`nevcairiel`	`Because all APIs internally calculate with the absolute coordinates`
`14:55.07`	`Anaral`	`raises eyebrows The only coord system with waypoints, that doesn't come with a map mod is TomTom...`
`14:55.22`	`Ellipsis`	`ok well I'll just do it myself then`
`14:55.26`	`Ellipsis`	`thanks for the help`
`14:55.39`	`AckisWork`	`~lart Anaral`
`14:55.39`	`purl`	`overclocks Anaral until Anaral burns out`
`14:55.49`	`Anaral`	`What did I do now?`
`14:56.09`	`AckisWork`	`i dunno`
`14:56.14`	`AckisWork`	`do I need a reason to lart?`
`14:56.16`	`Ellipsis`	`anyone know what the license is on tomtom?`
`14:56.28`	`Anaral`	`GNUv2, I think`
`14:56.29`	`Fisker-`	`slaps Ellipsis around a bit with a large trout`
`14:56.47`	`nevcairiel`	`No license provided --> All rights reserved :P`
`14:57.03`	`Ellipsis`	`boo`
`14:57.07`	`nevcairiel`	`You could always just ask cladhaire`
`14:57.10`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81408 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff.lua: SimpleSelfRebuff: works on beta.`
`14:57.42`	`Ellipsis`	`yes, I could, but I'm not going to bother unless I get this working and want to release it :P`
`14:57.48`	`cladhaire`	`whats the problem with TomTom?`
`14:57.54`	`AckisWork`	`runs around screaming AHHHHHHHHHHHHH`
`14:57.56`	`Ellipsis`	`oh, hai`
`14:57.59`	`AckisWork`	`cladhaire: it doesn't work on wrath`
`14:58.00`	`nevcairiel`	`she thinks astrolabe is too much bloat`
`14:58.01`	`AckisWork`	`giggles`
`14:58.08`	`Ellipsis`	`I never used the word 'bloat'`
`14:58.08`	`Anaral`	`It works wonderfully`
`14:58.09`	`thul`	`astrolube?`
`14:58.17`	`Ellipsis`	`and Ackis, it does work on wrath`
`14:58.20`	`Anaral`	`Ellipsis just is an astrolabe hater.`
`14:58.22`	`cladhaire`	`well, whats the problem with astrolabe?`
`14:58.26`	`WobWork`	`jsut "Extra crap" =)`
`14:58.26`	`AckisWork`	`lol ladies, it's a joke :P`
`14:58.48`	`Ellipsis`	`cladhaire: I dislike some of the design decisions made in both tomtom and astrolabe, and I don't want astrolabe in my UI when I don't use its functionality`
`14:59.16`	`cladhaire`	`What _do_ you want?`
`14:59.29`	`Ellipsis`	`[7:53:18 am] <Ellipsis> I just want it to store zone name and coords of each waypoint, and only give me a direction indicator in the same zone`
`14:59.30`	`cladhaire`	`and I'd like to hear about the design decisions in TomTom that you don't like`
`14:59.34`	`Ellipsis`	`[7:53:01 am] <Ellipsis> I don't need waypoints visible on continent maps`
`14:59.48`	`cladhaire`	`okay, TomTom can easily do the first`
`14:59.56`	`*** join/#wowace Zariel (n=chris@82-69-11-251.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)`
`14:59.58`	`cladhaire`	`the second as well actually`
`15:00.00`	`Ellipsis`	`not without astrolabe and current data.`
`15:00.19`	`nevcairiel`	`Because it uses astrolabe to draw the icons on the maps`
`15:00.39`	`Ellipsis`	`I want most of the functionality of tomtom, but I don't want astrolabe because I don't use the functionality it's required for; my complaint is that astrolabe is REQUIRED and tomtom won't even do what I want without it.`
`15:00.44`	`cladhaire`	`okay`
`15:00.54`	`cladhaire`	`so I write the 20 lines of code that is required`
`15:01.05`	`cladhaire`	`and it uses that for teh crazy arrow`
`15:01.07`	`Ellipsis`	`so I am looking to modify my local copy, and was interested in the license of tomtom in case I wanted to release it`
`15:01.19`	`cladhaire`	`that version of TomTom is ARR`
`15:01.20`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81409 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff.lua: SimpleSelfRebuff: typo.`
`15:01.23`	`Ellipsis`	`I'm not asking anyone to do anything for me; just looking for information`
`15:01.38`	`cladhaire`	`yes, but see`
`15:01.51`	`cladhaire`	`I don't like people forking addons when teh author (me) is more than willing to make the changes necessary`
`15:02.00`	`cladhaire`	`so I'm offering`
`15:02.04`	`Ellipsis`	`well I didn't realize you'd be so willing to`
`15:02.06`	`Ellipsis`	`I appreciate it :)`
`15:02.24`	`cladhaire`	`I could easily change the design of TomTom so that the minimap waypoints are the only thing to require astrolabe`
`15:02.25`	`Ellipsis`	`really, I want astrolabe to be optional, and as much functionality as possible to be retained when it's not present`
`15:02.43`	`cladhaire`	`thats "tough" but not insurmountable`
`15:03.11`	`Ellipsis`	`it would also mean less bitching when astrolabe data breaks (yes, that's not often, but...)`
`15:03.14`	`*** join/#wowace Adirelle\|work2 (n=adirelle@tok69-5-82-235-150-60.fbx.proxad.net)`
`15:03.20`	`Ellipsis`	`more of a graceful fallback`
`15:03.23`	`cladhaire`	`but what you're asking for is a very simple mod`
`15:03.37`	`Ellipsis`	`well, not asking for, create :P`
`15:03.40`	`Ellipsis`	`creating*`
`15:03.50`	`cladhaire`	`same thing`
`15:04.01`	`cladhaire`	`you're asking for the feature of ... and are willing to provide by creating :p`
`15:04.06`	`Ellipsis`	`yeah, kinda`
`15:04.29`	`cladhaire`	`I wonder..`
`15:04.38`	`cladhaire`	`ponders`
`15:04.44`	`Ellipsis`	`honestly when I needed tomtom working on beta (before astrolabe had an update) I just hacked the direction functions in my local copy to work off coords as a temporary fix`
`15:05.16`	`cladhaire`	`and same-zone that works brilliantly`
`15:05.26`	`*** join/#wowace Beutju (n=tus@p57A783F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`15:05.28`	`cladhaire`	`and makes sense for me to use in the first place`
`15:05.30`	`Ellipsis`	`which is all I'm interested in :P`
`15:05.42`	`Ellipsis`	`since you have an option for same zone only already...it makes sense`
`15:05.42`	`cladhaire`	`you're one of the only ones :P`
`15:05.45`	`cladhaire`	`but I understand`
`15:05.51`	`cladhaire`	`yeah, that's something I'm interesting in writing`
`15:05.59`	`cladhaire`	`just trying to figure out what else should move around`
`15:06.18`	`Ellipsis`	`btw, somewhat off-topic, you're my hero`
`15:06.23`	`cladhaire`	`why is that?`
`15:06.33`	`Ellipsis`	`most devs I talk to about making libs optional say "fuck that, they're embedded, do it yourself"`
`15:06.48`	`cladhaire`	`there's no way to determine direction or distance to a coordinate point in another zone, is there?`
`15:06.57`	`Ellipsis`	`not without knowing where that zone is relative to yours`
`15:06.57`	`Anaral`	`Heh, yeah, cladhaire is being way too patient with you. :p`
`15:07.01`	`nevcairiel`	`no without astrolabe cladhaire`
`15:07.03`	`AckisWork`	`how can you make libs optional?`
`15:07.16`	`AckisWork`	`Oh look, my Ace mod has Ace optional!`
`15:07.18`	`Ellipsis`	`AckisWork: you make your code check for their presence before using them`
`15:07.19`	`cladhaire`	`well it'd still be packaged with it, but there would be a "lite" option basically`
`15:07.28`	`cladhaire`	`and not bork if its not there.`
`15:07.30`	`cladhaire`	`nevcairiel: hrm`
`15:07.32`	`Ellipsis`	`just because it's embedded doesn't mean it can be assumed to be present`
`15:07.47`	`nevcairiel`	`Also, you cannot do distance in the same zone without astrolabe`
`15:07.59`	`cladhaire`	`direction yes, distance no`
`15:08.00`	`cladhaire`	`aye`
`15:08.14`	`Ellipsis`	`right, the distance indicator will either have to go or be a very rough guess based on coords`
`15:08.22`	`nevcairiel`	`Ellipsis: actually, we can assume that, it just doesnt live with your way :D`
`15:08.48`	`Ellipsis`	`nevcairiel: let me rephrase. devs can (and do) assume that, but I will bitch at them and likely modify my local copy (if not switch to a different addon altogether)`
`15:09.05`	`*** join/#wowace Throngy (n=nnnnnn@5ad3c84e.bb.sky.com)`
`15:09.19`	`Ellipsis`	`if I don't use the functionality lib X provides, I don't need lib X, and I am not going to keep it lying around`
`15:09.55`	`Ellipsis`	`a good example is BT4 requiring LDB`
`15:10.02`	`Ellipsis`	`:)`
`15:10.24`	`Gnarfoz`	`~ellipsis`
`15:10.25`	`purl`	`Please insert $1.00 to try again.`
`15:10.32`	`Gnarfoz`	`interesting.`
`15:10.35`	`AckisWork`	`wow only a buck?`
`15:10.46`	`Ellipsis`	`yeah, that gets you 20 seconds`
`15:10.52`	`Gnarfoz`	`I was going to make it "the new anal" :X`
`15:11.10`	`AckisWork`	`If I decided to do error checking for embedded libs it'd be if (not lib) then return end`
`15:11.44`	`Gnarfoz`	`make it if not lib then error("you fucking moron!") end :p`
`15:12.01`	`Ellipsis`	`sighs`
`15:12.08`	`Gnarfoz`	`sighs`
`15:12.27`	`Adirelle\|work`	`the real solution is to have a modular design that puts the code using the lib in a module`
`15:12.30`	`fewyn`	`sighs for a totally different reason`
`15:12.32`	`Ellipsis`	`you people need to stop thinking that embeddable libs is an excuse for sloppy coding`
`15:12.46`	`*** join/#wowace mikezter (n=Miranda@pD9535CDA.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`15:12.46`	`fewyn`	`Why can't I find my resume when I actually need it?`
`15:12.47`	`Adirelle\|work`	`disable/drop the whole module, and you're done`
`15:12.48`	`Gnarfoz`	`you need to stop thinking that it matters if you've got lib X around :p`
`15:12.52`	`WobWork`	`I wouldn't call the use of astrolabe 'sloppy'`
`15:12.58`	`Ellipsis`	`Gnarfoz: it matters to me`
`15:13.13`	`Seerah`	`I wouldn't exactly call it sloppy if the lib is used and is expected to be there`
`15:13.14`	`Gnarfoz`	`that's a different use of the word`
`15:13.19`	`Ellipsis`	`and I will continue to modify and rewrite addons to suit my preference for not having useless libs running`
`15:13.27`	`AckisWork`	`no I see the point that if it's embedded we assume that it's there, however we don't have to allow the mod to work if the library isn't found`
`15:13.33`	`Ellipsis`	`Seerah: if it's integral to the functionality of the addon, sure`
`15:13.33`	`Gnarfoz`	`and gain... nothing, really :D`
`15:13.51`	`Ellipsis`	`LDB for BT4? um, no...it's an action bar addon; if I don't use LDB for anything else in my UI why the heck should I have it for my action bars?`
`15:14.16`	`Ellipsis`	`optionally support it, great. embed it, if you really want. I don't care, as long as you don't crash and burn without it. :)`
`15:14.27`	`Adirelle\|work`	`Ellipsis : not even speaking of having the whale FuBarPlugin running around...`
`15:14.30`	`AckisWork`	`Ellipsis: the only ones I can think of that would be optional are LDB/FuBar/Titan type things`
`15:14.33`	`Ellipsis`	`AckisWork: you don't have to, but you should.`
`15:14.45`	`Gnarfoz`	`so it "consumes" 3229 bytes of memory because it's there. woohoo :D`
`15:14.47`	`Ellipsis`	`Adirelle\|work: I don't have FBP in my UI either`
`15:14.55`	`Ellipsis`	`AckisWork: actually there are a lot of cases`
`15:15.01`	`Ellipsis`	`the tomtom/astrolabe one for example`
`15:15.09`	`Ellipsis`	`or bag mods that require PT3 even when you're not using PT3-based filtering`
`15:15.14`	`AckisWork`	`I'm not familiar with atroblade... astroglide I am however`
`15:15.23`	`WobWork`	`argh`
`15:15.31`	`WobWork`	`I'm getting a "Failed to read data" crash`
`15:15.39`	`Gnarfoz`	`WobWork: reboob :)`
`15:15.42`	`Adirelle\|work`	`~ellipsis`
`15:15.43`	`purl`	`Please insert $1.00 to try again.`
`15:15.58`	`WobWork`	`replaces his breasts`
`15:16.00`	`Ellipsis`	`Gnarfoz: how exactly does that work o.O`
`15:16.10`	`Gnarfoz`	`Ellipsis: what, exactly?`
`15:16.14`	`WobWork`	`reboobing`
`15:16.18`	`Fisker-`	`tags Wobin`
`15:16.21`	`Gnarfoz`	`ask Raws, he invented it.`
`15:16.26`	`Ellipsis`	`o.O'`
`15:17.16`	`AckisWork`	`mmm boobs`
`15:17.19`	`AckisWork`	`afk 30 seconds`
`15:17.34`	`Adirelle\|work`	`any good example of disembeddable, lod module design ? BigWigs ?`
`15:17.55`	`Anaral`	`XPerl, DBM?`
`15:18.00`	`Gnarfoz`	`no spaces before punctuation marks in English, btw :)`
`15:18.06`	`Anaral`	`AtlasLoot?`
`15:18.24`	`Gnarfoz`	`anyway, off to discover all the sub-zones I'm missing for the Kalimdor Explorer and Azeroth Explorer achievements. :X this is going to take a while.`
`15:18.30`	`Adirelle\|work`	`add filter: that auto detects their modules (not a fixed list)`
`15:19.06`	`Ellipsis`	`at the risk of being beaten up by a horde of angry rock-haters, pitbull works that way`
`15:19.34`	`Adirelle\|work`	`I know, FuBar does it too`
`15:19.46`	`AckisWork`	`beats up on Ellipsis because he can.`
`15:19.54`	`Gnarfoz`	`it could probably also work that way without Rock or with any other addon framework, so that's probably not the point ;)`
`15:19.59`	`Adirelle\|work`	`helps AckisWork`
`15:20.03`	`Anaral`	`cheers on AckisWork, because she can!`
`15:20.07`	`Fisker-`	`slaps AckisWork around a bit with a large trout`
`15:20.09`	`Fisker-`	`slaps Adirelle\|work around a bit with a large trout`
`15:20.16`	`Fisker-`	`YOU CAN'T BEAT UP A DEAD PERSON`
`15:20.20`	`WobWork`	`throws Rock at Fisker-`
`15:20.27`	`WobWork`	`... Why can't you?`
`15:20.37`	`Fisker-`	`why so rockious?`
`15:21.10`	`Seerah`	`Gnarfoz: do you have cargExplorer?`
`15:21.16`	`Gnarfoz`	`whatsat?`
`15:21.18`	`Gnarfoz`	`(no I don't)`
`15:21.21`	`CIA-51`	`bartender4: 03unknown 07master * r2e29eac 10/ Bartender4.lua : The LDB plugin will only try to add itself if LDB is present - http://is.gd/2fMj`
`15:21.23`	`CIA-51`	`bartender4: 03unknown 07wrath * r2e29eac 10/ Bartender4.lua : The LDB plugin will only try to add itself if LDB is present - http://is.gd/2fMj`
`15:21.27`	`nevcairiel`	`Ellipsis: ^`
`15:21.30`	`nevcairiel`	`didnt even occur to me :P`
`15:21.30`	`Ellipsis`	`<3`
`15:21.38`	`CIA-51`	`bartender4: 03unknown 07wrath * r478804a 10/ Bartender4.lua : Merge branch 'master' into wrath - http://is.gd/2fMl`
`15:21.45`	`Adirelle\|work`	`am I allowed to hate 4k-lines long source files ?`
`15:21.46`	`Seerah`	`Gnarfoz: helps you explore, and shows you how much you're missing`
`15:21.47`	`Gnarfoz`	`nevcairiel: btw, your git -> svn commit logs are somehow messed up`
`15:21.49`	`nevcairiel`	`wonder why i'm unknown again`
`15:21.49`	`nevcairiel`	`shrug`
`15:21.56`	`Josh_Borke`	`nevcairiel: you fail`
`15:22.07`	`AckisWork`	`nev is using git now?`
`15:22.09`	`Fisker-`	`that's what you get for using git`
`15:22.17`	`Anaral`	`Adirelle\|work: You most certainly are!`
`15:22.22`	`Seerah`	`Gnarfoz: this is the wotlk version: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info10142-cargExplorer2.html there's also a version for live`
`15:22.27`	`Gnarfoz`	`Seerah: I already have a google spreadsheet of what I'm missing now, but yay for pointing that one out for me ;)`
`15:22.28`	`Adirelle\|work`	`hates PitBull.lua`
`15:22.30`	`AckisWork`	`Seerah: I use it`
`15:23.03`	`Gnarfoz`	`also, the sentence I'm constructing in my clipboard seems redundant now, reading the description of that addon.`
`15:23.16`	`Gnarfoz`	`is there already a way to query achievement status?`
`15:23.36`	`Seerah`	`I think so.....`
`15:23.44`	`Gnarfoz`	`yeah, looking at it now >_<`
`15:24.09`	`Gnarfoz`	`I grep'd a 2.4.3 -> 3.0.2 diff for "achievement" - how can that not have turned up?`
`15:24.44`	`Seerah`	`I'm pretty sure I've seen something about it`
`15:25.22`	`Adirelle\|work`	`don't know what is less nasty : 1) look for loadondemand addons that requires core addon and starts with the core name (a la pitbull) OR 2) look for addons with a specific TOC metadata (like X-coreName-module) ?`
`15:25.46`	`AckisWork`	`Gnarfoz: http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetAchievementInfo`
`15:26.01`	`Gnarfoz`	`AckisWork: yeah, like I said, I'm looking at it now (sourcecode of that addon ^^)`
`15:26.02`	`*** join/#wowace nocts\|work (n=nocts\|wo@nat-112.sea.ygnition.net)`
`15:26.49`	`Gnarfoz`	`oh btw, cladhaire, are you going to publish updated api "keyword" lists for editors, once 3.0 is stable? that'd be so awesome. :) (just noticed that the achievement functions weren't marked as keywords in my editor)`
`15:27.02`	`cladhaire`	`if someone asks, absolutely :P`
`15:27.06`	`cladhaire`	`just need to know what formats`
`15:29.03`	`Gnarfoz`	`whee ;) not going to bother you with it until that time comes, though, obviously`
`15:29.07`	`AckisWork`	`there's an api list for editors?`
`15:29.12`	`cladhaire`	`there will be if anyone asks`
`15:29.17`	`cladhaire`	`I said that a long time ago`
`15:29.38`	`Gnarfoz`	`didn't you already publish some of them, "back then"?`
`15:29.45`	`AckisWork`	`no I didn't know one existed, let alone something that was going to be updated`
`15:29.53`	`cladhaire`	`the last one I did was with wowscite a long time ago`
`15:30.05`	`cladhaire`	`AckisWork: that's the joy of wowprogramming.com versus wowwiki`
`15:30.15`	`cladhaire`	`its a database, and I can generate or do whatever we need to`
`15:30.19`	`Gnarfoz`	`or did I just copy the full listing of your api section, regex'd all descriptions and HTML out of it and crammed it into my editor :D`
`15:30.21`	`cladhaire`	`in order to make peoples lived easier`
`15:30.32`	`cladhaire`	`Gnarfoz: that's probably the more likely choice :P`
`15:30.37`	`cladhaire`	`but i can give you signatures as well`
`15:30.38`	`cladhaire`	`if you desire`
`15:30.48`	`Gnarfoz`	`I don't know if PSPad handles those`
`15:31.25`	`Gnarfoz`	`I really like the editor, but sometimes I do find myself thinking "duh, too bad it doesn't do X, too"`
`15:31.45`	`Gnarfoz`	`re wowprogramming btw: yay for waiting ages for it :D`
`15:31.52`	`cladhaire`	`heh`
`15:32.19`	`Gnarfoz`	`amazon.de seems to only carry it via Marketplace (3rd party sellers) and the one mine is coming from is something like... AA_BooksUS oO`
`15:32.21`	`Anaral`	`Cladhaire will the blp viewer ever be reimplemented back into wowprogramming.com?`
`15:32.28`	`cladhaire`	`the browser?`
`15:32.30`	`cladhaire`	`yeah`
`15:32.38`	`cladhaire`	`the code is all there, just need to unpack the data`
`15:32.45`	`Anaral`	`Cool`
`15:32.49`	`cladhaire`	`thats the one you were referring to, right?`
`15:32.52`	`Anaral`	`Aye`
`15:32.56`	`cladhaire`	`okay, i'll put it on my list of things to do :P`
`15:33.01`	`Anaral`	`Heh`
`15:33.10`	`Anaral`	`Thank you!`
`15:33.17`	`Gnarfoz`	`apropos blp viewing - there's ingame model/texture viewing now? (or rather, it's possible to make that now? just saw screenshots of something like an ingame WoW Model Viewer)`
`15:33.25`	`Anaral`	`I got my book yesterday! It's bigger than I thought it would be. :D`
`15:33.30`	`CIA-51`	`bartender4: 03Hendrik Leppkes 07master * rcf3a121 10/ Bartender4.lua : The LDB plugin will only try to add itself if LDB is present - http://is.gd/2fOe`
`15:33.31`	`CIA-51`	`bartender4: 03Hendrik Leppkes 07wrath * rcf3a121 10/ Bartender4.lua : The LDB plugin will only try to add itself if LDB is present - http://is.gd/2fOe`
`15:33.34`	`cladhaire`	`Anaral: thats the first thing everyone says :P`
`15:33.45`	`CIA-51`	`bartender4: 03Hendrik Leppkes 07wrath * rf9c9b4e 10/ Bartender4.lua : Merge branch 'master' into wrath - http://is.gd/2fOh`
`15:33.49`	`Gnarfoz`	`that's what /she/ said.`
`15:33.50`	`Ellipsis`	`that's what she said`
`15:33.55`	`Ellipsis`	`screw you Gnarfoz!`
`15:33.57`	`cladhaire`	`:P`
`15:33.58`	Funkeh`	`lol`
`15:34.01`	`Gnarfoz`	`w/ pleasure! :D`
`15:34.03`	`Anaral`	`It is what I said. :D`
`15:34.04`	`Adirelle\|work`	`nevcairiel: you forgot to mention Ellipsis in your commit log...`
`15:34.20`	`Ellipsis`	`yeah, Ellipsis gets emo when people don't mention her by name in commits`
`15:34.25`	`Ellipsis`	`she's such an attention whore, gawd`
`15:34.37`	`AckisWork`	`s/attention//`
`15:34.43`	`Anaral`	`And my 3 year old loves the front cover, but she asked where the pictures inside are. lol`
`15:34.43`	`Ellipsis`	`thanks :P`
`15:34.47`	`CIA-51`	`03whitetooth * r81410 10StatLogicLib/StatLogic-1.0/StatLogic-1.0.lua: (log message trimmed)`
`15:34.49`	`CIA-51`	`StatLogicLib:`
`15:34.51`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: Hunter Talent: Survival Instincts: Moved to 3,7`
`15:34.53`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: Hunter Talent: Survivalist: Moved to 3,8. Increases your Stamina by 2%/4%/6%/8%/10%.`
`15:34.53`	`AckisWork`	`~tickle Ellipsis`
`15:34.54`	`purl`	`ACTION jumps on Ellipsis, yelling "TICKLE FIGHT!!!!"`
`15:34.55`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: Hunter Talent: Combat Experience: Moved to 2,16. Increases your total Agility by 3%/6%.`
`15:34.57`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: Hunter Talent: Lightning Reflexes: Moved to 3,17`
`15:34.59`	`CIA-51`	`- WotLK: Hunter Talent: Aspect Mastery: Aspect of the Monkey - Reduces the damage done to you while active by 10%.`
`15:35.01`	Funkeh`	`Anaral, aww`
`15:35.05`	`AckisWork`	`wow I didn't know purl could be so hot`
`15:35.08`	`[SW]Dodge`	`anyone knows if 3.0.2 will bring the api changes or not?`
`15:35.15`	`Ellipsis`	`I'd have a sexy tickle fight with purl`
`15:35.15`	Funkeh`	`ofc...`
`15:35.18`	`Ellipsis`	`~rawr`
`15:35.19`	`purl`	`rumour has it, rawr is a demigod to everyone who isnt a jew, or program for comparing and exploring gear for Bears, Cats, Moonkin, Warlocks, Mages, Retadins, ProtWarriors, and Healadins (http://www.codeplex.com/Rawr)`
`15:35.19`	`AckisWork`	`Anaral: how many kids?`
`15:35.27`	`Ellipsis`	`...fail, I was hoping it'd be something sexy`
`15:35.31`	`AckisWork`	`lol`
`15:35.32`	Funkeh`	`[SW]Dodge, 3.0.2 will bring everything that is on beta`
`15:35.43`	Funkeh`	`just northrend will be "locked"`
`15:35.43`	`Anaral`	`Two, 3 year old and 11 month old girls.`
`15:35.47`	`[SW]Dodge`	Funkeh`: ok thanks :)
`15:35.59`	`[SW]Dodge`	`so if i dont get a beta acc i can fix my addon on ptr :D`
`15:36.11`	`Anaral`	`Yep`
`15:36.12`	`AckisWork`	`Anaral: aww cute :)`
`15:36.20`	`Anaral`	`Heh. Sometimes`
`15:39.08`	`*** join/#wowace Cheads (i=chead@0x573bcd7a.henqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk)`
`15:42.38`	`evl`	`Any event I can listen to that tells me that GetTalentInfo will return talent info?`
`15:43.58`	`evl`	`it just returns nil at PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD`
`15:44.50`	`nevcairiel`	`PLAYER_ALIVE`
`15:45.00`	`nevcairiel`	`But with one problem`
`15:45.08`	`nevcairiel`	`it doesnt fire on reload ui`
`15:45.15`	`evl`	`:(`
`15:45.43`	`nevcairiel`	`on reloadui you can use P_E_W afaik`
`15:45.55`	`Gnarfoz`	`try looking at some other talent addon?`
`15:46.45`	`evl`	`so basicallty use both to scan`
`15:47.55`	`Ellipsis`	`anyone know where the WowMatrix updater downloads addons from?`
`15:47.57`	`*** join/#wowace kd3 (n=kd3@wikia/kaydeethree)`
`15:48.38`	`AckisWork`	`Ellipsis: The internet`
`15:48.43`	`Ellipsis`	`its website claims it gets them from "each addon's official website"`
`15:48.59`	`Seerah`	`I think it scrapes`
`15:49.08`	`Ellipsis`	`ick`
`15:49.23`	`Ellipsis`	`well it scraped something that's breaking libstub for people who updated with it`
`15:49.25`	`nevcairiel`	`they have a scraper and the downloader just gets the URLs from their page`
`15:49.41`	`nevcairiel`	`You really have to try hard to break LibStub`
`15:49.42`	`nevcairiel`	`like`
`15:49.44`	`Ellipsis`	`I know`
`15:49.46`	`nevcairiel`	`modifiy it badly`
`15:49.47`	`Seerah`	`what they scrape isn't always the latest version`
`15:49.52`	`Ellipsis`	`attempt to call global 'LibStub' (a table value)`
`15:50.00`	`nevcairiel`	`its lacking its metatable`
`15:50.08`	`Ellipsis`	`something broke it :P`
`15:50.12`	`Seerah`	`and that's why I've never approved of wowmatrix`
`15:50.25`	`nevcairiel`	`I wonder`
`15:50.59`	`nevcairiel`	`looks at revision history for LibStub`
`15:53.31`	`Ellipsis`	`hrm, it's not possible that a bad upgrade path could do that, is it?`
`15:53.37`	`nevcairiel`	`no`
`15:53.53`	`nevcairiel`	`LibStub is fully self-contained`
`15:54.12`	`nevcairiel`	`if it finds a older version, it just overwrites all functions and re-inits everything`
`15:54.18`	`Ellipsis`	`hrm`
`15:54.29`	`*** join/#wowace sun\ (n=sun@ARouen-256-1-100-222.w92-132.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`15:55.01`	`Ellipsis`	`(interestingly, the same type of error is occurring with Rock)`
`15:55.11`	`Ellipsis`	`maybe some evil addon is hooking setmetatable`
`15:55.20`	`Ellipsis`	`wouldn't that be great`
`15:55.47`	`nevcairiel`	`LibStub is still in its initial release version, adn the metatabel dates way back, so cant be an old version of it`
`15:55.52`	`nevcairiel`	`no one ever used those`
`15:56.17`	`Ellipsis`	`that and he said a recent update caused it (rolling back to a month-old backup fixes the problem)`
`15:56.50`	`nevcairiel`	`file search on setmetatable?`
`15:56.59`	`Ellipsis`	`don't have a copy of the addons dir`
`15:57.05`	`nevcairiel`	`get one =P`
`15:57.07`	`Ellipsis`	`he gave a list and said they all came from wowmatrix`
`15:57.13`	`nevcairiel`	`hah`
`15:57.20`	`Ellipsis`	`but it's impossible to know which site it's downloading from for any given addon, so...yeah`
`15:58.05`	`Ellipsis`	`(it's not a particularly short list, either...sigh)`
`15:59.18`	`nevcairiel`	`either some addon is breaking setmetatable`
`15:59.25`	`nevcairiel`	`or someone is removing the metatable from LibStub`
`15:59.30`	`Ellipsis`	`AND rock?`
`15:59.45`	`nevcairiel`	`doesnt rock just use LibStub for that?`
`15:59.50`	`sylvanaar`	`it uses libstub imo`
`16:00.24`	`Ellipsis`	`but Rock() isn't working`
`16:00.27`	`Ellipsis`	`same as LibStub() doesn't`
`16:00.32`	`nevcairiel`	`weird`
`16:00.40`	`nevcairiel`	`i suppose they broke metatables then!`
`16:00.55`	`sylvanaar`	`work for me (tm)`
`16:00.57`	`Ellipsis`	`apparently`
`16:01.05`	`nevcairiel`	`sylvanaar: its not a general issue`
`16:01.12`	`NeoTron`	`http://wowwebstats.com/ephi22t2uprsq?s=206177-236745 <-- bestest ever`
`16:01.14`	`nevcairiel`	`sylvanaar: some guy reports that he gets those errors after updating`
`16:01.17`	`nevcairiel`	`so some addon does it`
`16:01.27`	`Ellipsis`	`it's some bad version of some particular addon from any of a million different websites`
`16:01.36`	`Ellipsis`	`gogo crappy updaters`
`16:01.43`	`nevcairiel`	`I wouldnt know of a reliable way to figure out which addon hooks setmetatable`
`16:01.51`	`nevcairiel`	`except file searching`
`16:02.16`	`Ellipsis`	`short of going through his list and eliminating stuff we can assume to be safe, I have no idea how to narrow this down`
`16:02.36`	`Ellipsis`	`he says he's going to start from that backup and update addons one at a time, but who knows if/when he'll find the one that breaks it`
`16:02.38`	`sylvanaar`	`grep libstub`
`16:02.52`	`Zyndrome`	`I think my router needs a serious restart`
`16:03.06`	`Ellipsis`	`he has a really disgusting list too, there's no less than 5 different UF addons alone`
`16:03.28`	`Ellipsis`	`all three versions of dogtag, ace, etc.`
`16:03.33`	`nocts\|work`	`Addon updaters can die in a fire`
`16:03.35`	`Ellipsis`	`both versions of threat`
`16:03.36`	`Ellipsis`	`cries`
`16:03.45`	`nevcairiel`	`rofl`
`16:03.48`	`sylvanaar`	`he just never deletes stuff`
`16:03.53`	`WobWork`	`well you can't be too certain!`
`16:03.53`	`nocts\|work`	`Good grief O.o`
`16:03.56`	`nocts\|work`	`lol`
`16:04.00`	`WobWork`	`Threat is srs bsness!`
`16:04.04`	`[SW]Dodge`	`Ellipsis: tell him to get wau or wowi ui manager or curse client! :D`
`16:04.23`	`[SW]Dodge`	`Ellipsis: and tell him also to redo his addon list :D`
`16:04.29`	`nocts\|work`	`And to smile more :D`
`16:04.30`	`[SW]Dodge`	`thats the easiest way xD`
`16:04.55`	`[SW]Dodge`	`nocts\|work : yea, also to smile more! :) :)`
`16:05.01`	`nocts\|work`	`licks [SW]Dodge`
`16:05.05`	`WobWork`	`night all`
`16:05.06`	`*** join/#wowace fridgid (n=fridgid@75.76.14.158)`
`16:05.13`	`[SW]Dodge`	`links nocts\|work`
`16:05.16`	`[SW]Dodge`	`-n <.<`
`16:05.21`	`[SW]Dodge`	`+c`
`16:05.22`	`[SW]Dodge`	`q.q`
`16:05.30`	`WobWork`	`cliks?`
`16:05.31`	`[SW]Dodge`	`licks nocts\|work <- fixed! :D`
`16:05.50`	`[SW]Dodge`	`WobWork : sure! :P`
`16:06.25`	`Ellipsis`	`he has ktm and omen and mythreat and fubar_ktmfu and both versions of threat lib and...my eyes are bleeding so I can't read anymore`
`16:06.38`	`*** join/#wowace Zyndrome (n=faggotry@217-209-42-83-no89.tbcn.telia.com)`
`16:07.01`	`Ellipsis`	`oh, and recountthreat`
`16:07.02`	`Ellipsis`	`just in case`
`16:07.10`	`[SW]Dodge`	`Ellipsis: again.. tell him to delete everything and get a better updater :P`
`16:07.23`	`*** join/#wowace Obble (i=Obble@user-54402c6a.l6.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk)`
`16:07.27`	`Ellipsis`	`I told him his addon folder needs cleaning`
`16:07.36`	`sylvanaar`	`well, no wonder libstub doesnt work , hes probably got ever version of it installed`
`16:07.38`	`nocts\|work`	`Wait... was that a soft link [SW]Dodge? Or do I need to make it hard?`
`16:08.01`	`[SW]Dodge`	`nocts\|work: make it as hard as you like it ;)`
`16:08.15`	`Obble`	`I just had to come on to thank you for ClassColoredNameplates Ammo <3 It's bee driving me round the bend for days trying to do it`
`16:08.51`	`nocts\|work`	`ln nocts [SW]Dodge && ls -i nocts && ls -i [SW]Dodge`
`16:09.10`	`[SW]Dodge`	`:D`
`16:09.59`	`*** join/#wowace Sekkyo (n=joel@dsl092-250-144.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`16:10.06`	`*** join/#wowace Kulaar (n=182Kulaa@p5B1571BA.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`16:12.40`	`*** join/#wowace Jygga (i=Jygga@port-212-202-202-34.dynamic.qsc.de)`
`16:15.23`	`nocts\|work`	`Someone help me justify getting a full tower.`
`16:15.28`	`*** join/#wowace copystring_ (n=copystri@p548A2228.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`16:15.48`	`nocts\|work`	`I can't figure out how to fill her up. My current hardware is unsatisfying for her current depth and girth.`
`16:16.45`	`sylvanaar`	`go back to pata and fill up with cables`
`16:16.53`	`nocts\|work`	`><`
`16:17.48`	`sylvanaar`	`all i can say is that adding hard drives makes everything slower to more you add`
`16:18.44`	`sylvanaar`	`so in that respect a full tower is bad`
`16:19.04`	`sylvanaar`	`has one full of hard drives`
`16:20.54`	`sylvanaar`	`and raid is only fast during the first 2 weeks after you install your array - then becomes slower at an exponential rate`
`16:21.23`	`nocts\|work`	`What makes them slow if I only use the other drives for manual transfers, aside from scheduled mirroring?`
`16:21.34`	`nocts\|work`	`If primary sataII drive has the OS, and the other drives aren't being accessed, that is.`
`16:21.59`	`sylvanaar`	`dunno - tis a mystery!`
`16:22.10`	`nocts\|work`	`Is this a windows blame?`
`16:22.14`	`sylvanaar`	`no`
`16:22.34`	`sylvanaar`	`(wrong guy for that)`
`16:22.54`	`nocts\|work`	`Are you linux?`
`16:22.57`	`sylvanaar`	`no`
`16:23.09`	`nocts\|work`	`O.o`
`16:23.14`	`nocts\|work`	`Are you on BSD?`
`16:23.26`	`nevcairiel`	`He uses windows`
`16:23.28`	`sylvanaar`	`i like MS was what i was saying`
`16:23.31`	`nocts\|work`	`Oh.`
`16:23.34`	`nocts\|work`	`oh....`
`16:23.40`	`Ellipsis`	`he's a ms fanboy, he won't blame windows for anything :P`
`16:23.47`	`nocts\|work`	`I don't care if you like MS, at least you can acknowledge drive issues.`
`16:23.57`	`nevcairiel`	`I run 4 drives in my case, and i never encountered a "major" slow down`
`16:24.00`	`nocts\|work`	`Having more drives shouldn't slow anything down if they aren't being accessed.`
`16:24.03`	`sylvanaar`	`i did, i said everything is slower`
`16:24.05`	`digmouse`	`who is the guy plays as the voice of Void Reaver? He's so cool`
`16:24.13`	`nocts\|work`	`And if they are slower, that's a windows issue.,`
`16:24.20`	`sylvanaar`	`they spin up occasionally`
`16:24.27`	`nocts\|work`	`They shouldn't. Ever, unless you access them.,`
`16:24.33`	`sylvanaar`	`right, i do`
`16:24.33`	`nocts\|work`	`Windows :P`
`16:24.34`	`*** join/#wowace Aeyan (n=fake@cpe-071-076-230-073.triad.res.rr.com)`
`16:24.45`	`nocts\|work`	`(09:21:35 AM) nocts\|work: If primary sataII drive has the OS, and the other drives aren't being accessed, that is.`
`16:24.46`	`nevcairiel`	`not necessarily windows, could also be a crappy controller that fails at managing 10 drives at a time .P`
`16:24.57`	`sylvanaar`	`its better to just use the one thats alredy spinning`
`16:24.57`	`nocts\|work`	`If that's the case, then I won't experience spin up, and I won't have a slower system.`
`16:25.33`	`nevcairiel`	`I had drives in my raid array spin down, i didnt think that was cool, so i turned spin-down off`
`16:25.36`	`nevcairiel`	`*shrug`
`16:25.55`	`nocts\|work`	`I've considered raid but don't yet have a truly valid reason for it yet, kinda like the full tower.`
`16:26.06`	`sylvanaar`	`i have permanent hearing loss in my left ear from seagate cheetahs`
`16:26.11`	`nocts\|work`	`I've had a name in mind for my lian-li full tower for years now, too. It's like my sexy geek dream.`
`16:26.13`	`nevcairiel`	`I just run a Raid1 (mirror) on 2 discs for my important stuff`
`16:26.24`	`*** join/#wowace PProvost (n=PProvost@WoWUIDev/WAU/Admin/Pprovost)`
`16:26.24`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v PProvost] by ChanServ`
`16:26.33`	`nevcairiel`	`nothing major`
`16:26.54`	`nocts\|work`	`So it isn't for the performance it's for the instant mirroring, for you at least.`
`16:27.18`	`nocts\|work`	`That I can understand. Would be more cautious than a scheduled mirror.`
`16:28.51`	`nevcairiel`	`ya`
`16:29.43`	`nevcairiel`	`Even though i've personally not lost a HDD yet, i would really hate to lose the stuff on those discs`
`16:29.54`	`sylvanaar`	`wow, not one?`
`16:29.56`	`nocts\|work`	`I've managed to lose the most important disc in my life, and I can't recover it.`
`16:30.31`	`Ellipsis`	`speaking of which, your hard drive just made that funny sound again`
`16:30.35`	`sylvanaar`	`has lost many drives, and only lost data when raid was involved`
`16:30.38`	`*** join/#wowace Kingroms (i=WinNT@213.21.83.39)`
`16:31.04`	`nevcairiel`	`sylvanaar: amazingly not, no. However whenever i replaced one and wanted to use the spare like a few month later for testing something, it was always kinda bad =P`
`16:31.21`	`nocts\|work`	`Ellipsis: That's the brown out. When our room voltage drops, that drive stops, spins back up.`
`16:31.35`	`sylvanaar`	`yeah, those are the drives that bring your system to a crawl`
`16:32.02`	`sylvanaar`	`'s head resets`
`16:32.09`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts\|work: it doesn't coincide with my monitor blackouts though`
`16:32.21`	`nocts\|work`	`Interesting.`
`16:32.37`	`nocts\|work`	`Well, I'll have my new computer soon.`
`16:32.54`	`sylvanaar`	`what did you get?`
`16:33.38`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts\|work: you do realize that our new computers are going to use even more power than these, right? :P`
`16:33.59`	`nocts\|work`	`Ellipsis: Hence the UPS ;)`
`16:36.33`	`nocts\|work`	`sylvanaar: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231192 + http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236039 + http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371010 + http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130376 + http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037 + http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288`
`16:36.37`	`sylvanaar`	`that reminds me of my favorite vista feature - maximum performance mode for the hard drives, look ma no data`
`16:36.39`	`nocts\|work`	`No case or motherboard picked out just yet.`
`16:37.19`	`sylvanaar`	`i only buy intel motherboards now`
`16:37.32`	`nocts\|work`	`sylvanaar: Uh, XP had disk "maximum performance" too.`
`16:37.43`	`nocts\|work`	`And the toggle between making it that way or portable.`
`16:37.48`	`sylvanaar`	`vista has 2 levels of it`
`16:38.13`	`nocts\|work`	`DMA and more DMA? :P`
`16:38.28`	`sylvanaar`	`write cache and "i hope you wrote that down" cache`
`16:39.23`	`sylvanaar`	`its called "advanced performance"`
`16:39.34`	`nocts\|work`	`lol`
`16:39.45`	`nocts\|work`	`Vista is so full of fluff, I love it.`
`16:42.42`	`nevcairiel`	`the advanced option even has a warning`
`16:42.46`	`sylvanaar`	`yeah`
`16:42.48`	`sylvanaar`	`lol`
`16:42.56`	`sylvanaar`	`thats my favorite part`
`16:43.04`	`CIA-51`	`03Octane666 07WotLK * r81411 10SpamMeNot/ (tradeHistory.lua tradeMon.lua):`
`16:43.04`	`CIA-51`	`SpamMeNot:`
`16:43.04`	`CIA-51`	`- Made the trade monitor flag spam more like the regular spamflagerage. I need to trademark that.`
`16:43.08`	`sylvanaar`	`who would ever check it`
`16:44.00`	`Adys`	`<PROTECTED>`
`16:44.13`	`nevcairiel`	`sylvanaar: if i had a APC or something, i would`
`16:44.24`	`nevcairiel`	`Adys: UnitPowerType`
`16:44.29`	`Adys`	`cheers nev`
`16:44.57`	`nevcairiel`	`but without, i already feel bad for default write cache`
`16:45.34`	`sylvanaar`	`lol i have 2 here, and iwont do it, you can blue screen and lose the data in the write ahead cache, or any number of other things that would require IPL`
`16:45.55`	`nevcairiel`	`I have never bluescreened with vista yet`
`16:46.12`	`sylvanaar`	`i have - playing wotlk`
`16:46.12`	`nocts\|work`	`See, that is what bugs me.`
`16:46.28`	`sylvanaar`	`alt tabbing in and out, i blue screened`
`16:46.32`	`nevcairiel`	`heh`
`16:46.49`	`sylvanaar`	`i was being lazy and left it in full screen mode`
`16:46.50`	`nocts\|work`	`"improved hd performance"`
`16:46.58`	`nocts\|work`	`But linux and solaris kernels have been doing that for years now.`
`16:46.58`	`Carancu`	`vista bluescreens when I'm running on battery and use winamp at the same time on my laptop...`
`16:47.05`	`nocts\|work`	`Multiple levels of DMA and read ahead handling.`
`16:47.36`	`nevcairiel`	`Its not like MS advertised that as a key feature or something`
`16:47.53`	`nevcairiel`	`Plus its true, vista is actually faster in IO access then XP`
`16:48.04`	`sylvanaar`	`its my favorite feature - its like a dont press me button`
`16:48.05`	`nevcairiel`	`specially in combination with net access`
`16:48.15`	`*** join/#wowace Vegeta]BT[ (n=Vegeta-G@koln-4d0b27ce.pool.mediaWays.net)`
`16:48.23`	`sylvanaar`	`its all caching`
`16:49.24`	`nocts\|work`	`nevcairiel: In all my vista benchmarkings, the IO was almost identical.`
`16:49.33`	`nocts\|work`	`And that was on two different drives, with 4hour tests, ran three times.`
`16:49.35`	`*** join/#wowace Guardix (n=Guardix@0x573b7a65.hinqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk)`
`16:49.42`	`nevcairiel`	`Feels faster for me *shrug`
`16:49.52`	`sylvanaar`	`vista will use all your ram prefetching stuff it thinks you might use - xp doesnt`
`16:49.52`	`nocts\|work`	`I just think it's silly to praise Vista for "omg but it has x" when that feature has been around for a while elsewhere.`
`16:50.00`	`nocts\|work`	`It's like applauding the dumb kid for figuring out people wear shoes.`
`16:50.06`	`nevcairiel`	`not like we did that`
`16:50.41`	`nevcairiel`	`nor did MS do that, in this case`
`16:51.04`	`Gnarfoz`	`meh`
`16:51.05`	`nocts\|work`	`They boasted quite about about improved IO times from SP3.`
`16:51.09`	`nocts\|work`	`*SP2`
`16:51.13`	`nevcairiel`	`1?`
`16:51.18`	`sylvanaar`	`2k`
`16:51.27`	`nocts\|work`	`xp.`
`16:51.44`	`sylvanaar`	`maybe they improved`
`16:51.56`	`nocts\|work`	`And kept simialr benchmark results?`
`16:52.07`	`nocts\|work`	`I think it was an improvement in code, and a synthetic placebo improvement in the world.`
`16:52.09`	`nocts\|work`	`http://download.microsoft.com/download/a/f/7/af7777e5-7dcd-4800-8a0a-b18336565f5b/Priorityio.doc`
`16:52.12`	`Gnarfoz`	`get a 24" lcd or another 22" of the same sort I already have, to match, even though it's now officially an abandoned product? :X`
`16:52.15`	`nocts\|work`	`http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/03/VistaKernel/`
`16:52.41`	`sylvanaar`	`i think its all caching`
`16:52.44`	`nocts\|work`	`sylvanaar: Windows aside, notes on the hardware list before I make finalizations?`
`16:52.51`	`sylvanaar`	`superfetch!`
`16:52.58`	`nocts\|work`	`If it's all caching, then it isn't a super duper HD improvement setting.`
`16:53.12`	`sylvanaar`	`wow, thats all that gtx's cost now`
`16:53.41`	`nevcairiel`	`Well it does actually lower the average time in IO if you cache the right things`
`16:53.46`	`nevcairiel`	`its just a matter of interpretation :D`
`16:53.57`	`sylvanaar`	`paid $700 - last summer`
`16:54.10`	`nocts\|work`	`It's superfluff :P`
`16:54.24`	`nevcairiel`	`it does work, though`
`16:54.26`	`sylvanaar`	`i know nev, i think is a good feature`
`16:54.28`	`nocts\|work`	`It does work, but it's a buzz label instead of giving the honest truth.`
`16:54.41`	`nevcairiel`	`the caching makes me open my usual apps like instantly`
`16:54.44`	`nocts\|work`	`I think supercache is amazing.`
`16:55.15`	`nocts\|work`	`But you can't call it an IO improvement and a new HD setting. That's them just trying to spread improvements around further than just admit they could only slightly impove IO by changing something else besides the HD settings.`
`16:55.16`	`nevcairiel`	`I still want to get a fast USB stick to try that cache`
`16:55.24`	`nocts\|work`	`nevcairiel: It makes it nom nom nom fast.`
`16:55.30`	`sylvanaar`	`nevcairiel its not noticable`
`16:55.38`	`sylvanaar`	`readyboost?`
`16:55.39`	Funkeh`	`readyboost!`
`16:55.43`	`nocts\|work`	`readyboost+supercache`
`16:55.52`	`nevcairiel`	`All my USB Sticks where ranked too slow =P`
`16:55.56`	`nocts\|work`	`I noticed a difference with the programs I load more continually, but not for actual caching.`
`16:56.00`	`sylvanaar`	`yeah, i have a blue led from my readyboost drive that blinks at me constantly`
`16:56.03`	Funkeh`	`Mine was when I first put it in`
`16:56.04`	`nocts\|work`	`Pidgin, opera, etc. But that's it.`
`16:56.08`	Funkeh`	`but it was brand new I'm like wtf`
`16:56.12`	`nocts\|work`	`wtf?`
`16:56.19`	Funkeh`	`tokk it out and in a few times then it magically worked`
`16:56.25`	`nevcairiel`	`lol`
`17:00.59`	`*** join/#wowace purl (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)`
`17:00.59`	`*** topic/#wowace is WoWAce Future Plans! http://www.wowace.com/forums/index.php?topic=14316.0 \| http://www.wowace.com \| http://files.wowace.com/ \| http://ace.pastey.net \| http://www.lua.org \| Author Key Give-Aways! http://wow.curseforge.com/announcements/lich-king-beta-author-key-giveaway/ \| http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17207`
`17:01.09`	`Gnarfoz`	`why would they offload ram into flash on s3?`
`17:01.14`	`Gnarfoz`	`or did you mean hibernation (s4)`
`17:01.17`	`NeoTron`	`last night our MT druid said she might not be able to make it to the raid due to computer issues. she got it fixed and I was frankly a bit disappointed...`
`17:01.23`	`nevcairiel`	`i need to find a small cheap IDE harddrive`
`17:01.32`	`CIA-51`	`03whitetooth * r81412 10StatLogicLib/StatLogic-1.0/StatLogic-1.0.lua: (log message trimmed)`
`17:01.32`	`CIA-51`	`StatLogicLib: WotLK: Mage`
`17:01.33`	`CIA-51`	`- Updated Talent: Arcane Fortitude: Moved to 1,4. Increases your armor by an amount equal to 50%/100%/150% of your Intellect.`
`17:01.33`	`Gnarfoz`	`don't buy IDE hard drives.`
`17:01.38`	`CIA-51`	`- Updated Talent: Arcane Meditation: Moved to 1,13`
`17:01.38`	`nevcairiel`	`or some integrated totally passive system that can run linux`
`17:01.39`	`NeoTron`	`That is until Entropius died. Then I wasn't so disappointed anymore`
`17:01.40`	`CIA-51`	`- Updated Talent: Mind Mastery: Moved to 1,25. Increases spell damage by up to 3%/6%/9%/12%/15% of your total Intellect.`
`17:01.43`	`CIA-51`	`- Updated Talent: Arctic Winds: Moved to 3,21`
`17:01.45`	`CIA-51`	`- Updated Talent: Prismatic Cloak: Moved to 1,18. Reduces all damage taken by 2%/4%/6%.`
`17:02.13`	`kenlyric`	`man these update notes make me want to stab`
`17:02.15`	Funkeh`	`did they implement the new talents yet`
`17:02.29`	`Gnarfoz`	`there's no new build, so I don't think so?`
`17:02.31`	`nevcairiel`	`Gnarfoz: what then? =P That system is like a old K6-2, and SATA wasnt known back there`
`17:02.34`	Funkeh`	`k`
`17:03.01`	`nocts\|work`	`So far I'm not convinced that I need a full tower. This makes me sad panda.`
`17:03.16`	`Gnarfoz`	`nevcairiel: :X sata controller, new mainboard? :>`
`17:03.23`	`NeoTron`	`seems a bit mistimed to buy a new comptuer a few weeks before Intel releases their new cpu architecture (Core i7)`
`17:03.35`	`NeoTron`	`if for no other reason than making the "old" stuff cheaper :P`
`17:04.01`	`Gnarfoz`	`yeah, but who'd buy old stuff, hmmm`
`17:04.03`	`Gnarfoz`	`:P`
`17:04.03`	`nocts\|work`	`NeoTron: Because that core i7+x58 mobo isn't going to be cheap.`
`17:04.23`	`nevcairiel`	`well then at least wait until its released`
`17:04.25`	`nocts\|work`	`Matter of fact, I expect it to be incredibly expensive, the first gen mobos to be buggy as hell.`
`17:04.26`	`nevcairiel`	`and prices drop a bit`
`17:04.37`	`nevcairiel`	`(for old stuff)`
`17:04.38`	`Gnarfoz`	`the notion of "waiting" for new hardware releases, to either buy the new stuff or wait until the new stuff makes the old stuff cheaper, simply doesn't work well`
`17:04.51`	`NeoTron`	`nocts\|work: doesn't seem very expenive`
`17:04.54`	`nocts\|work`	`That and I have a budget. The gear I'm getting now is a killer speed for the price (See my links)`
`17:05.01`	`nocts\|work`	`NeoTron: Do you have a hidden price list?`
`17:05.04`	`NeoTron`	`$300 ish for the lowest end cpu, 550 or so for the mid-end`
`17:05.21`	`NeoTron`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i7 wikipedia does`
`17:05.24`	`sylvanaar`	`nocts looks like good stuff - the psu price is really good too`
`17:06.45`	`sylvanaar`	`i want to buy a new pc now`
`17:07.21`	`nocts\|work`	`NeoTron: No thanks.`
`17:08.28`	`Gnarfoz`	`I don't trust anything but Corsair Memory anymore, thus I'd reccomend http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184 instead of that g.skill stuff`
`17:08.34`	`sylvanaar`	`my problem is I can never seem to keep the ram running at faster timings for whatever reason it likes to revert to the spd timings`
`17:08.46`	`Gnarfoz`	`rest of the stuff seems fine, I dunno about US prices these days, though. oO`
`17:08.57`	`nocts\|work`	`NeoTron: The core I'm getting right now is solid, cool, runs as fast as I need, and will keep me for a few years to come, easily.`
`17:09.01`	`nocts\|work`	`For about half that price.`
`17:09.54`	`CIA-51`	`03Cybersea * r81413 10BigWigs/Sunwell/Felmyst.lua: BigWigs: ruRU update`
`17:10.13`	`Gnarfoz`	`I can only agree with nocts, don't wait for new hardware (early adopting will give you: pain, hoping it will make older hardware cheaper "soon" will leave you: disappointed)`
`17:10.30`	`Ellipsis`	`Gnarfoz: the RAM is already here :P`
`17:10.48`	`*** join/#wowace LOLPIP (n=pab_lolp@p5B0EDA8C.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`17:10.50`	`Gnarfoz`	`Ellipsis: where? oO`
`17:11.01`	`Ellipsis`	`we already bought it`
`17:11.12`	`NeoTron`	`core i7 seems quite a nice upgrade. typically too the advet of a new architecture means the previous one drops down. still I'm getting a new computer at the end of the year or earlu next year`
`17:11.16`	`NeoTron`	`so you know what I'll get`
`17:11.34`	`Gnarfoz`	`Ellipsis: who? oO what are you talking about ;D`
`17:11.50`	`Ellipsis`	`Gnarfoz: nocts and I bought two of those gskill sets`
`17:12.00`	`Ellipsis`	`they are already at our house`
`17:12.14`	`*** part/#wowace LOLPIP (n=pab_lolp@p5B0EDA8C.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`17:12.29`	`Gnarfoz`	`ah, I'm not up to date on the "who's sleeping with whom" chart for #wowace`
`17:12.33`	`Ellipsis`	`lol`
`17:12.54`	`nocts\|work`	`lol`
`17:12.55`	`nocts\|work`	`><`
`17:12.55`	`AckisWork`	`omg I figured out who Ellipsis' bf is!`
`17:12.59`	`Ellipsis`	`grats AckisWork`
`17:13.01`	`nocts\|work`	`I has a gf?`
`17:13.02`	`Ellipsis`	`you win the prize`
`17:13.03`	`Gnarfoz`	`AckisWork: you and me, both`
`17:14.48`	`NeoTron`	`Next an Days of our WowAce lives - Gnarfoz' evil twin returns from a long trip to new mexico`
`17:15.09`	`NeoTron`	`and AckisWork does one too many dry code commits`
`17:15.10`	`Gnarfoz`	`envies his evil twin for his traveling`
`17:15.20`	`Ellipsis`	`and blows up the server?`
`17:15.26`	Funkeh`	`I'll b the evil twin since I have the urge to kicked half the channel`
`17:15.28`	`Ellipsis`	`losing all the old data just in time for the curseforge transition?`
`17:15.38`	`Gnarfoz`	Funkeh`: give in!
`17:15.48`	`Gnarfoz`	`Ellipsis: what a miraculous event that'd be ;p`
`17:15.50`	`Ellipsis`	kicks Funkeh` in the shin
`17:15.55`	`*** join/#wowace syeren (i=syeren@cpc3-oldh5-0-0-cust762.manc.cable.ntl.com)`
`17:16.06`	Funkeh`	`ouch?`
`17:16.18`	`Ellipsis`	`there, now you have an excuse to kick me, take some of that anger out :P`
`17:16.53`	Funkeh`	`k`
`17:16.58`	`NeoTron`	`I think one of the key changes that got us M'uru was going with 6 healers for two days`
`17:17.00`	*** kick/#WoWAce [Ellipsis!n=funk@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh] by Funkeh` (Funkeh`)
`17:17.06`	`*** join/#wowace Ellipsis (n=ellipsis@c-71-231-115-214.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`17:17.14`	`Ellipsis`	`feel better now?`
`17:17.19`	`NeoTron`	`we've been going with 7 healers since the nerf. going with 6 made focus an utmost priority. last night we went up to 7 again`
`17:17.20`	Funkeh`	`not really`
`17:17.22`	`*** join/#wowace Higdur (n=nike@81-229-140-43-o1124.telia.com)`
`17:17.25`	Funkeh`	`can I do it again?`
`17:17.28`	`Ellipsis`	`sure`
`17:17.39`	Funkeh`	`meh cba now`
`17:17.45`	`Ellipsis`	pats Funkeh`
`17:18.10`	`NeoTron`	`needs to figure out what kind of group to make for KJ.`
`17:18.14`	`Ellipsis`	`it's ok, I know you just love me too much to abuse me like that :3`
`17:18.18`	`AckisWork`	makes out with Funkeh`
`17:18.20`	`NeoTron`	`does KJ _always_ do his top threat mind flay type attack?`
`17:18.27`	`AckisWork`	`NeoTron: you need non-morons`
`17:18.37`	`AckisWork`	`NeoTron: not while he's doing the big dick laser bombs`
`17:19.09`	`*** join/#wowace jy___ (n=jy@2001:41d0:1:8ca2:0:0:1:1)`
`17:19.43`	`NeoTron`	`I'm thinking I'll tank it you see`
`17:19.55`	`NeoTron`	`we got to, I guess, phase 3 (<85%)`
`17:20.15`	`*** join/#wowace fewyn\|clone (n=fewyn@46.210.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com)`
`17:20.16`	`NeoTron`	`ended the night with a completely funny "the boomkin quintet"`
`17:20.27`	`NeoTron`	`"moonfire spamming raids since 2008"`
`17:20.35`	`AckisWork`	`P1 = easy, P2 = easy, P3 = hard, P4 = harder, P5 = cakewalk`
`17:20.54`	`Ellipsis`	`cake?`
`17:21.09`	`NeoTron`	`p3 adds the dragon + void reaver type ball attack + big boom that requires the dragon shield?`
`17:21.29`	`NeoTron`	`and p4 adds.. err. meteors?`
`17:21.44`	`NeoTron`	`hasn't prepared himself to actually fighting Kil'jaeden. >:-)`
`17:22.13`	`AckisWork`	`yes NeoTron`
`17:22.22`	`AckisWork`	`P5 adds more meterors but you get 2 dragons`
`17:22.48`	`NeoTron`	`what kind of DPS requirements are there?`
`17:23.01`	`NeoTron`	`I was hoping to not have to be as anal with groupign and let the boomkin back ni for example`
`17:23.31`	`*** join/#wowace AcTiVaTe (n=activate@d594eeda.static.dsl.concepts.nl)`
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`17:24.27`	`AckisWork`	`I don't recall DPS requirements, our first kill we killed him with 2 seconds left on the big boom that would've wiped us all`
`17:24.55`	`NeoTron`	`so there is some type of enrage`
`17:25.08`	`NeoTron`	`I was hoping it was more like Illidan - where there is an enrage but it's so high you're unlikely to hit it`
`17:25.27`	`NeoTron`	`emphasizing skill and strategy over raw power`
`17:25.46`	`AckisWork`	`NeoTron: it's not a hard enrage, if you have pallys/mages you can live through that boom`
`17:26.06`	`AckisWork`	`basically what happens is the dragons are all dead and can't be used, so you don't have anyone that can survive his explosion`
`17:26.28`	`sylvanaar`	`oh i want an iphone sdk - i want to write an app for it`
`17:26.30`	`NeoTron`	`so you have a limited number of shields`
`17:27.19`	`AckisWork`	`each shield the dragon does consumes it's hp by 50%, so each dragon can do 2 shields, and there's 4 dragons total you can use`
`17:27.19`	`Stanzilla`	`Kemayo: http://www.wowace.com/forums/index.php?topic=9549.msg240830#msg240830`
`17:30.01`	`sylvanaar`	`how would i run thier sdk without a mac?`
`17:30.21`	`nocts\|work`	`How can you have your pudding if you don't eat your fish?`
`17:30.35`	`sylvanaar`	`they can run office`
`17:30.45`	`Anaral`	`It's meat, not fish, nocts`
`17:30.52`	`sylvanaar`	`where is my vmware osx`
`17:31.26`	`Anaral`	`"If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have your pudding, if you don't eat your meat!"`
`17:32.38`	`NeoTron`	`do you need the dragons in phase 3-5?`
`17:32.50`	`NeoTron`	`also can't heal the dragon? :P`
`17:33.01`	`CIA-51`	`03pericles 07WotLK * r81414 10ShockAndAwe/ (ShockAndAwe.lua ShockAndAwe.toc config.lua uptime.lua):`
`17:33.01`	`CIA-51`	`ShockAndAwe: -`
`17:33.01`	`CIA-51`	`Version 2.14`
`17:33.02`	`CIA-51`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:33.04`	`CIA-51`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:33.16`	`*** join/#wowace eoM_rM (n=moe@p5489E803.dip.t-dialin.net)`
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`17:49.23`	`sylvanaar`	`nevcairiel i fixed an AceTab-3.0 bug, i dont know if i am supposed to commit stuff there...any event, tt was locking up the client`
`17:49.48`	`sylvanaar`	`hey, who was talking baout modules and unusled libraries and such`
`17:49.48`	`CIA-51`	`03ulic * r81415 10LittleWigs/TempestKeep/ (Dalliah.lua Skyriss.lua Zereketh.lua): LittleWigs: TK- added some missing spellIds`
`17:49.58`	`nevcairiel`	`yeah i've seen it`
`17:50.03`	`nevcairiel`	`not like i know AceTab code`
`17:50.20`	`sylvanaar`	`well basically, trying to match "" is never good`
`17:51.03`	`sylvanaar`	`not to mention, that "" is a valid paramter, and AceTab-2 took it. it wasnt much of a change`
`17:51.32`	`*** join/#wowace duaiwe (n=jonathan@63-226-229-135.tukw.qwest.net)`
`17:52.21`	`vithos`	`NeoTron, the dragons can't even be targetted`
`17:52.59`	`vithos`	`though it would be funny if AoE heals hit them`
`17:53.19`	`NeoTron`	`vithos: aha`
`17:54.26`	`nocts\|work`	`nevcairiel: How are the nvidia chipsets for mobos? I've heard they're as much fail as AMD right now and I should be considering intel chipsets for now.`
`17:54.39`	`nevcairiel`	`I dunno`
`17:54.46`	`nevcairiel`	`I use a intel chipset right now`
`17:54.49`	`sylvanaar`	`intel mobo ... period`
`17:54.56`	`sylvanaar`	`intel brand board`
`17:55.39`	`sylvanaar`	`<thats just my opinion>`
`17:56.29`	`sylvanaar`	`i had bot the XBX and XBX2 over the past 2-3 years. htey rare rock solid`
`18:02.01`	`AckisWork`	`lua> foo = {["Bar"] = false, ["Bar1"] = false}; for i in pairs(foo) do print(i) end`
`18:02.02`	`lua_bot`	`AckisWork: Bar1, Bar`
`18:04.04`	`vithos`	`sylvanaar, i think there may be a problem with externals in Prat-3.0 (trunk version). it shows Ace3 as a missing dependency as the embedded version`
`18:05.43`	`sylvanaar`	`huh`
`18:06.29`	`sylvanaar`	`vithos use the ace3 standalone`
`18:07.09`	`vithos`	`it shouldn't be embedded? ok`
`18:07.21`	`NeoTron`	`I wonder, is it rare for ppl to do muru with 3 tanks?`
`18:07.41`	`sylvanaar`	`who are you asking, me? i dont think so`
`18:07.46`	`NeoTron`	`ppl in general`
`18:07.48`	`NeoTron`	`that do muru :P`
`18:08.34`	`vithos`	`we use 4 tanks: 2 druids on humanoids, warrior for sentinels and prot paladin for void spawns`
`18:09.14`	`sylvanaar`	`prat 3 uses the majority of ace3, i think 3 of its libraries aren't used by prat`
`18:09.32`	`NeoTron`	`we use warrior/druid on the belfs, prot pally on the sentinel/spawns`
`18:09.39`	`NeoTron`	`with a single hunter pulling sentinels to the pally`
`18:10.38`	`*** join/#wowace Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/GitHub/Tekkub)`
`18:10.38`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v Tekkub] by ChanServ`
`18:10.42`	`vithos`	`sylvanaar, ah, i guess it's just that WUU's auto-deps feature isn't working and normally it would have been autoinstalled`
`18:11.47`	`sylvanaar`	`vithos, i dont see why, it says requireddeps Ace3 - seems like it should get installed`
`18:12.42`	`*** join/#wowace charon (n=thomas@unaffiliated/charon)`
`18:12.59`	`*** join/#wowace Tesla6 (n=Owner@bas1-streetsville39-1279744123.dsl.bell.ca)`
`18:13.02`	`*** part/#wowace Tesla6 (n=Owner@bas1-streetsville39-1279744123.dsl.bell.ca)`
`18:17.18`	`thul`	`http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs36/i/2008/249/6/5/Smile_by_cainadamsson.jpg <- portrait of the day`
`18:18.31`	`Ellipsis`	`licks it`
`18:18.49`	`thul`	`weee`
`18:18.51`	`thul`	`threesome`
`18:19.12`	`nocts\|work`	`Id give you a foursome but you can't afford me.`
`18:19.24`	`nocts\|work`	`Your wife already spent all her money.`
`18:19.28`	`Vulcanus`	`ellipsis likes to lick girls? :O`
`18:19.34`	`nocts\|work`	`this is new?`
`18:20.41`	`Ellipsis`	`I'm an equal-opportunity licker`
`18:20.53`	`Vulcanus`	`I'd PAY to see that`
`18:20.55`	`NeoTron`	`do people usually "tank" kil'jaeden?`
`18:21.03`	`Ellipsis`	`Vulcanus: how much?`
`18:21.17`	`Vulcanus`	`We can negotiate, how much do you want? XD`
`18:21.26`	`Ellipsis`	`glances at nocts`
`18:21.48`	`nocts\|work`	`1. Do I get to watch 2. Only if we get to split that on more parts for the computers`
`18:22.09`	`Ellipsis`	`how about $400, should cover the video cards for SLI`
`18:22.12`	`Ellipsis`	`;D`
`18:22.21`	`vithos`	`NeoTron, yeah, someone tanks the soul flays`
`18:22.42`	`Vulcanus`	`As worthless as the dollar is these days, that's a wee bit too much XD Can hire other whores for less XD`
`18:22.56`	`Ellipsis`	`your loss ;)`
`18:23.00`	`Vulcanus`	`haha`
`18:23.02`	`Ellipsis`	`I can talk dirty and/or code as well`
`18:23.12`	`Vulcanus`	`you tease :(`
`18:23.15`	`Ellipsis`	`:D`
`18:23.21`	`nocts\|work`	`And she's good.`
`18:23.28`	`nocts\|work`	`Real good.`
`18:23.34`	`Vulcanus`	`I have about $15k in the bank, marry me?`
`18:23.43`	`nocts\|work`	`Imagine orgasming every function end.`
`18:23.51`	`Ellipsis`	`bahahah`
`18:23.52`	`nocts\|work`	`Over my dead body, Vulcanus :P`
`18:24.09`	`Vulcanus`	`Not fair that you get to hog her all the time, I want her too!`
`18:24.27`	`Ellipsis`	`grabs popcorn`
`18:25.21`	`NeoTron`	`vithos: I did it last night`
`18:25.22`	`Vulcanus`	`grabs Ellipsis`
`18:25.34`	`Ellipsis`	`squeals`
`18:25.50`	`Vulcanus`	`fondles Ellipsis`
`18:25.51`	`vithos`	`me too, at 90% of the feral's threat who was supposed to be doing it :P`
`18:27.37`	`nocts\|work`	`Vulcanus: 'sall good. Virtual fantasy all you think you need. Touch her in real life like that and the only thing you'll be programming is your voice box and electric wheelchair.`
`18:27.38`	`nocts\|work`	`<3`
`18:27.44`	`nocts\|work`	`But, of course, with all the love in the world to you.`
`18:28.15`	`thul`	`I hate druids`
`18:28.20`	`nocts\|work`	`Resto?`
`18:28.21`	`thul`	`with a vengance`
`18:28.23`	`thul`	`all`
`18:28.25`	`nocts\|work`	`?`
`18:28.26`	`Vulcanus`	`Not if I gun you down first, nocts :p`
`18:28.27`	`NeoTron`	`vithos: class? :`
`18:28.34`	`thul`	`shaman, rogue and paladin`
`18:28.37`	`*** join/#wowace Yssaril (n=Yssaril@adsl-99-145-232-253.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)`
`18:28.38`	`vithos`	`hunter`
`18:28.40`	`nocts\|work`	`Vulcanus: You'd have to be able to identify me first.`
`18:28.48`	`nocts\|work`	`I specced "pedo tracking" yesterday.`
`18:28.50`	`NeoTron`	`nod. I'm a lock. is it better for ranged DPS to tank it?`
`18:29.04`	`Vulcanus`	`I was under the impression that Ellipsis was above 18 XD`
`18:29.09`	`NeoTron`	`was thinking a hunter or elemental shaman`
`18:29.10`	`thul`	`puts Vulcanus and nocts\|work in a cage`
`18:29.13`	`nocts\|work`	I'm talking about your interaction with Funkeh`
`18:29.13`	`thul`	`FIIIIIIIIIGHTS OOOON!!`
`18:29.20`	`nocts\|work`	`thul: Agreed. But my only druid issues are as a shaman vs resto.`
`18:29.21`	`Vulcanus`	`what? XD`
`18:29.25`	`NeoTron`	`because I'd be better used doing raw dps than spamming searing pain :P`
`18:29.28`	`nocts\|work`	`Balance hurts, but nothing grounding+shocks don't normally take care of.`
`18:29.33`	`NeoTron`	`even though I DO have 18-19k health`
`18:29.33`	`nocts\|work`	`And feral is a joke.`
`18:29.41`	`kadrahil`	`is the beta login server dead?`
`18:29.45`	`thul`	`Vulcanus: I'm into cage fighting, I can't help it.`
`18:29.57`	`nocts\|work`	`thul: Holy shit you threw me into a street fighter II flashback.`
`18:29.58`	`Vulcanus`	`no I meant, what interaction with funkeh`
`18:29.59`	`thul`	`nocts\|work: I just find them impossible to kill while in bearform and I'm melee`
`18:30.01`	`nevcairiel`	`kadrahil: beta is on maintenance`
`18:30.01`	`nocts\|work`	`The best of the series, imo`
`18:30.02`	`vithos`	`i dont' think we can get enough hp to do it effectively`
`18:30.05`	`kadrahil`	`nevcairiel: ah`
`18:30.08`	`nocts\|work`	`Thul, depends. What spec?`
`18:30.10`	`*** join/#wowace afKulaar (n=182Kulaa@p5B154FAE.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:30.23`	`kadrahil`	`nevcairiel: do they have a page where they update that status for beta?`
`18:30.32`	`nocts\|work`	`As enhancement it was just a matter of time. Drop searing and elemental, or searing and kite them until they oom from form switching.`
`18:30.32`	`kadrahil`	`nevcairiel: i just got a key yesterday so i don't know :P`
`18:30.34`	`nevcairiel`	`kadrahil: dont think so, was just a blue post about it`
`18:30.35`	`nocts\|work`	`your mana totem lasts longer`
`18:30.37`	`vithos`	`all i've heard is ferals or warlocks tanking it`
`18:30.38`	`kadrahil`	`ah ok`
`18:30.42`	`thul`	`nocts\|work: rogue? right now I'm trying mutilate and having better luck with that than I did with combat swords actually.`
`18:30.51`	`nocts\|work`	`sec, on a call`
`18:30.52`	`nevcairiel`	`http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9658135773&sid=2000`
`18:30.56`	`thul`	`nocts\|work: as a shaman i was enhancement, they can kite me, out-dps me AND out-heal me :-P`
`18:31.11`	`thul`	`nocts\|work: as a paladin it is mostly ok, plate helps, healing is good too, but it is not like I'll kill anything the next year`
`18:31.22`	`nocts\|work`	`How are you letting a feral druid kite you?`
`18:31.39`	`thul`	`he puts that speed reducing thing on me, i cripple him, he shapeshifts and runs?`
`18:31.42`	`vithos`	`NeoTron, but we haven't killed him yet or anything, so i dunno. still failing at the dps check`
`18:31.52`	`Dashkal`	`O.o`
`18:31.59`	`Dashkal`	`Why is a feral kiting you?`
`18:32.09`	`Dashkal`	`That speed reducing thing is to keep you _near_ not far`
`18:32.28`	`thul`	`Dashkal: to get away to heal himself.`
`18:32.34`	`Dashkal`	`maim :p`
`18:32.35`	`thul`	`then run in and keep killing me`
`18:32.37`	`nocts\|work`	`Speed reducing?`
`18:32.41`	`thul`	`I don't know what it is :-P`
`18:32.41`	`nocts\|work`	`So shock him, ghost wolf.`
`18:32.47`	`thul`	`nocts\|work: well, I'm talking rogue now`
`18:32.50`	`nocts\|work`	`oih.`
`18:32.52`	`Dashkal`	`It's a new deep feral talent`
`18:33.00`	`nevcairiel`	`oh in beta`
`18:33.02`	`nevcairiel`	`i was wondering wtf`
`18:33.04`	`nocts\|work`	`Is it a disease?`
`18:33.05`	`nevcairiel`	`speed reduce?`
`18:33.24`	`nevcairiel`	`no its a physical debuff`
`18:33.31`	`nocts\|work`	`ghostwolf catchup + shocks + manatotem = gg, druid will oom from shaping.`
`18:33.35`	`nevcairiel`	`or wait`
`18:33.36`	`Dashkal`	`"Infected Wounds"`
`18:33.37`	`nevcairiel`	`its a disease`
`18:33.49`	`nevcairiel`	`yeah they changed it to be a disease`
`18:33.56`	`NeoTron`	`feral druids no longer have in on their gear`
`18:34.01`	`NeoTron`	`wonder ifthey will address that`
`18:34.04`	`nocts\|work`	`Disease totem + ghostwolf catchup + shocks + manatotem = gg, druid will oom from shaping.`
`18:34.23`	`nevcairiel`	`In theory, all pvp is easy`
`18:34.28`	`cladhaire`	`in theory :P`
`18:34.43`	`nevcairiel`	`For every class you can tell some combination of spells to use`
`18:34.45`	`Ellipsis`	`if pvp wasn't easy they wouldn't call 'em "welfare epics"`
`18:34.46`	`nevcairiel`	`it just doesnt work :P`
`18:35.01`	`nocts\|work`	`That's how I nuke druids as it is, the disease totem fills in the disease gap problem.`
`18:35.07`	`NeoTron`	`wintergrasp might be just the thing that makes me actually want to pvp`
`18:35.09`	`nocts\|work`	`I really don't have an issue with feral. Just resto. I HATE resto.`
`18:35.16`	`Dashkal`	`Ellipsis: O.o PvP isn't easy. Honor points and arena points are easy`
`18:35.17`	`thul`	`nevcairiel: I just feel much more comfortable as a rogue in pvp than I do as a shaman :-P i can vanish, I can ambush, i can mutilate :-D`
`18:35.36`	`Ellipsis`	`Dashkal: well, don't you gain honor and arena points by..uh..pvping?`
`18:35.37`	`nevcairiel`	`NeoTron: i love that you can just do something useful even as a healer`
`18:35.53`	`nevcairiel`	`Ellipsis: you dont need to be good to get points`
`18:35.53`	`Dashkal`	`Ellipsis: No, no you don't. You gain them by idling in battlegrounds and arenas and losing lots.`
`18:36.01`	`Ellipsis`	`nevcairiel: then you don't need to be good to pvp`
`18:36.02`	`Ellipsis`	`thus, easy :P`
`18:36.18`	`nevcairiel`	`everything is easy if you dont expect to win`
`18:36.18`	`Dashkal`	`And the gear that isn't just handed to you (most of it) isn't welfare`
`18:36.19`	`nocts\|work`	`That's not true.`
`18:36.20`	`nevcairiel`	`*shrug`
`18:36.23`	`Dashkal`	`erm, phrased that backwords`
`18:36.35`	`Dashkal`	`most of the gear _is_ welfare. The rare pieces you have to work for are`
`18:36.47`	`Dashkal`	`nt (stupid ' key beiong next to enter)`
`18:36.51`	`cladhaire`	`!api 1412`
`18:36.57`	`cladhaire`	`!ap 1412`
`18:36.59`	`cladhaire`	`bad habit`
`18:37.02`	`nevcairiel`	`lol`
`18:37.04`	`Ellipsis`	`right, that's the whole point of classifying some of them as "welfare"`
`18:37.20`	`Ellipsis`	`but if it's easy to get the rewards from pvp why bother being good at it :P`
`18:37.26`	`nocts\|work`	`Just because the gear is easy to obtain doesn't mean that the pvp itself is easy.`
`18:37.30`	`vithos`	`!points 1412`
`18:37.31`	`nocts\|work`	`PvP is difficult, getting the gear is not.`
`18:37.34`	`Dashkal`	`Not arguing that the pieces are welfare, just that PvP is easy :p If you're actually playing player against player and not sittin gthere dying for points, it's hard :p`
`18:37.37`	`vithos`	`k i dunno.`
`18:37.38`	`nocts\|work`	`Getting the Arena gear is, I'd say.`
`18:37.42`	`AckisWork`	`anyone know what: http://www.wowdb.com/item.aspx?id=23684 is for?`
`18:37.44`	`nocts\|work`	`But the welfare gear, not so much.`
`18:38.15`	`Stanzilla`	`AckisWork: quest item maybe?`
`18:38.26`	`nocts\|work`	`And you don't get the gear by just pvping, Ellipsis. You get it by capturing flags, capturing towers, even just being in the winning or losing team gives you some sort of honor points.`
`18:38.32`	`AckisWork`	`possibly`
`18:38.36`	`nocts\|work`	`You could not pvp a single person and still get welfare gear, just not arena gear.`
`18:38.37`	`nocts\|work`	`Technically.`
`18:38.44`	`Ellipsis`	`AckisWork: wowhead says "not available to players"`
`18:38.54`	`Ellipsis`	`maybe a removed item or something`
`18:39.01`	`AckisWork`	`Ellipsis: ok ty <3`
`18:39.09`	`nevcairiel`	`it was evidently just added in 2.3`
`18:39.11`	`nevcairiel`	`but *shrug`
`18:39.17`	`nevcairiel`	`maybe somethign weird =P`
`18:39.35`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts\|work: you're using an awfully funny definition of pvp if capturing pvp objectives doesn't count`
`18:39.49`	`nocts\|work`	`PvP = player versus player`
`18:39.49`	`cladhaire`	`so, wowhead and wowdb both have bad information about the pvp vendors`
`18:39.51`	`cladhaire`	`discuss!`
`18:39.55`	`nocts\|work`	`If you're not facing a player in combat, it's not pvp.`
`18:40.03`	`Ellipsis`	`cladhaire: they have bad information about a lot more than that :P`
`18:40.10`	`Gnarfoz`	`when I die in raids on live, I get a 1-3s freeze right when it happens, but before I actually see it happen (i.e. I can say on TS: "oops, I'm dead" and then I see the -15421 hit from some boss with random targeted abilities) -- anyone have a clue what that might be? oO`
`18:40.21`	`cladhaire`	`but they have the same bad information`
`18:40.25`	`cladhaire`	`drama`
`18:40.26`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts\|work: so basically, nobody ever defends objectives, right?`
`18:40.43`	`Ellipsis`	`zomg cladhaire, just what are you implying?!`
`18:40.47`	`nocts\|work`	`Not always, no. But you can, technically avoid it all and still get gear.`
`18:40.58`	`cladhaire`	`I'm not, I'm waiting for someone else to!`
`18:41.00`	`cladhaire`	`no, in reality`
`18:41.02`	`cladhaire`	`i just want them to be right`
`18:41.03`	`Ellipsis`	`can I get pvp gear without, say, pvp flagging?`
`18:41.07`	`nocts\|work`	`Nope.`
`18:41.12`	`Ellipsis`	`then I have to pvp`
`18:41.19`	`Ellipsis`	`since pvp flagging is an invitation for pvp`
`18:41.27`	`nocts\|work`	`No, you don't.`
`18:41.30`	`nocts\|work`	`You don't have to.`
`18:41.31`	`cladhaire`	`you can get pvp gear without flagging`
`18:41.32`	`nevcairiel`	`Sitting in AV in a cave isnt exactly "pvping"`
`18:41.34`	`Ellipsis`	`when you're flagged, pvp is involuntary`
`18:41.35`	`cladhaire`	`its called the 5 piece set`
`18:41.47`	`nocts\|work`	`Ellipsis: You're just playing with words and not how it's actually preformed.`
`18:41.49`	`cladhaire`	`which you get from PVE reputation :P`
`18:41.54`	`nocts\|work`	`Just because you are pvp flagged doesn't mean you will pvp.`
`18:42.05`	`Ellipsis`	`cladhaire: we're talking about pvp rewards :P things that cost honor/arena points`
`18:42.09`	`charon`	`Gnarfoz: what about addons? maybe one of them does something expensive when you die or leave combat, both of which happen at that point`
`18:42.16`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts\|work: it means I no longer have control over whether I will pvp`
`18:42.16`	`nocts\|work`	`You CAN go through and get your entire pvp set by not killing a single player, or damaging a single player, or fighting a single player`
`18:42.22`	`nocts\|work`	`That doesn't matter.`
`18:42.24`	`cladhaire`	`you could capture spirit towers`
`18:42.24`	`nocts\|work`	`You CAN go through and get your entire pvp set by not killing a single player, or damaging a single player, or fighting a single player <`
`18:42.27`	`Ellipsis`	`yes it does`
`18:42.29`	`cladhaire`	`without ever needing to encounter someone`
`18:42.34`	`Gnarfoz`	`charon: that's the obvious idea, but I didn't add anything to my setup :\`
`18:42.34`	`cladhaire`	`but you'd have to flag :P`
`18:42.43`	`Ellipsis`	`if you are flagged, you are participating in pvp`
`18:42.47`	`nocts\|work`	`No, that isn't true.`
`18:42.53`	`nocts\|work`	`You're participating in the option of pvp.`
`18:42.56`	`Ellipsis`	`it doesn't matter what you do, because anyone can come up and kill you`
`18:42.57`	`nocts\|work`	`Not in pvp itself.`
`18:43.05`	`nevcairiel`	`if you run away once you see an enemy, you dont really participate =P`
`18:43.05`	`Ellipsis`	`it's not an option if it's not optional`
`18:43.06`	`nocts\|work`	`Right, but if they don't, you can still get the gear.`
`18:43.11`	`nocts\|work`	`Exactly, nevcairiel.`
`18:43.12`	`Ellipsis`	`if you are flagged they can kill you, that's not really optional`
`18:43.22`	`nocts\|work`	`She isn't going to get it.`
`18:43.26`	`Dashkal`	`confirmed patch: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/9657735742-no-patch-this-weekend.html`
`18:43.38`	`Ellipsis`	`we've been over this a million times, you know I will always use the same definition of pvp`
`18:43.41`	`Ellipsis`	`because it's how I view it`
`18:43.49`	`nevcairiel`	`confirmed attempt of a patch`
`18:43.50`	`nocts\|work`	`Even though it's technically wrong`
`18:43.51`	`charon`	`Gnarfoz: oh well, just asking. maybe bisect them, you could commit some naked "whoops i clicked off my gryphon" suicide to test.`
`18:44.15`	`Gnarfoz`	`charon: I should establish if being in a raid (i.e. X-LoadOn stuff is loaded) is enough, true`
`18:44.17`	`nevcairiel`	`Ellipsis: i suppose you will never play on a pvp realm, because that would shatter your defintion of pvp? :D`
`18:44.33`	`Ellipsis`	`nevcairiel: it doesn't shatter my definition of pvp`
`18:44.40`	`Ellipsis`	`I would always be participating in pvp`
`18:44.45`	`Ellipsis`	`which is precisely why I will never play on one`
`18:44.50`	`AckisWork`	`~api GetItemInfo`
`18:44.51`	`purl`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetItemInfo`
`18:44.51`	`nevcairiel`	`I cannot leave shat, i dont want to pvp, omg!`
`18:45.03`	`Ellipsis`	`moar like I can't leave elwynn forest :P`
`18:45.23`	`nocts\|work`	`Ellipsis: It's still an incorrect definition.`
`18:45.28`	`Ellipsis`	`no it's not`
`18:45.35`	`Ellipsis`	`who are you to define pvp?`
`18:45.54`	`nocts\|work`	`Uh, Blizzard is.`
`18:45.59`	`nocts\|work`	`And by definition, it's player versus player.`
`18:46.01`	`Dashkal`	`PvP -> Player vs Player. You aren't vs another player unless you're fighting`
`18:46.02`	`Primer`	`but...pvp is fun!`
`18:46.03`	`Ellipsis`	`show me their dictionary of game terms :)`
`18:46.06`	`nocts\|work`	`If you aren't against a player you arne't PvPing.`
`18:46.10`	`nocts\|work`	`I mean.. that's word for word.`
`18:46.17`	`Ellipsis`	`'cause I recall them naming that flag the "PVP flag"`
`18:46.22`	`Ellipsis`	`which would seem to indicate that it has something to do with pvp`
`18:46.25`	`nocts\|work`	`Right. Giving you the OPTION to pvp.`
`18:46.28`	`Ellipsis`	`no`
`18:46.32`	`Ellipsis`	`giving OTHERS the option to pvp`
`18:46.34`	`nocts\|work`	`I told you she wouldn't understand.`
`18:46.36`	`Ellipsis`	`you don't have an option while flagged`
`18:46.40`	`Gnarfoz`	`she doesn't want to understand :p`
`18:46.42`	`nocts\|work`	`^`
`18:46.46`	`Ellipsis`	`I understand where you're coming from`
`18:46.49`	`Ellipsis`	`I disagree :)`
`18:46.49`	`nocts\|work`	`No, you don't.`
`18:46.53`	`Ellipsis`	`yes I do`
`18:46.59`	`Gnarfoz`	`there's no point in disagreeing with the truth :p`
`18:46.59`	`nocts\|work`	`It's a word for word, simple definition.`
`18:47.02`	`nocts\|work`	`Player versus player.`
`18:47.03`	`Ellipsis`	`you define pvp as the act of fighting against another player`
`18:47.08`	`nocts\|work`	`Hence the versus.`
`18:47.10`	`nevcairiel`	`Thats what it is`
`18:47.18`	`Ellipsis`	`I define it as anything that puts you into a pvp situation`
`18:47.19`	`Dashkal`	`You have chosen a definition not inline with the definition used by most every other player of the game. When the rest of the world is wrong...`
`18:47.24`	`Ellipsis`	`capturing an objective is pvp`
`18:47.33`	`nocts\|work`	`No it isn't O.o`
`18:47.36`	`Gnarfoz`	`because you're playing against a timer bar oO`
`18:47.38`	`Ellipsis`	`it is to me`
`18:47.44`	`Ellipsis`	`because if someone wants to, they can FORCE me to pvp`
`18:47.47`	`nocts\|work`	`But not to the word itself, nor to anyone in the game.`
`18:47.50`	`Ellipsis`	`so I'm effectively pvping just by flagging`
`18:47.54`	`nevcairiel`	`No one can force anyone to pvp`
`18:47.58`	`Ellipsis`	`think of it as a quantum pvp flag :)`
`18:47.58`	`nevcairiel`	`you can always run/fly away`
`18:47.58`	`Gnarfoz`	`fucking PvE servers :X`
`18:48.01`	`nocts\|work`	`You're just trying to twist the word to fit yourself.`
`18:48.04`	`nocts\|work`	`Make up a new word.`
`18:48.09`	`Gnarfoz`	`pve flag :D`
`18:48.11`	`Ellipsis`	`if you're flagged, you're simultaneously pvping and not pvping, because you don't know which one will happen`
`18:48.16`	`Ellipsis`	`how about that :P`
`18:48.20`	`Dashkal`	`force? No, you could stop playing while they whack at your avatar, remving the vs player part of the equation`
`18:48.28`	`nocts\|work`	`No, until you're against/versus a player, it's still not pvp.`
`18:48.42`	`nocts\|work`	`That's the definition of versus.`
`18:48.42`	`Ellipsis`	`by your definition`
`18:48.44`	`Dashkal`	`You cannot be _forced_ to pvp. Ever.`
`18:48.48`	`nocts\|work`	`By websters dictionary. :P`
`18:48.57`	`Dashkal`	`well, someone could take a gun to you in meatspace, but that's outside the scope of this`
`18:48.58`	`Ellipsis`	`if I am flagged and someone attacks me, they are pvping, correct?`
`18:49.02`	`Dashkal`	`no`
`18:49.06`	`Dashkal`	`not unless you fight back`
`18:49.07`	`Primer`	`I find it odd that some people in my guild, when speaking in vent, will turn "versus" into the verb, to verse`
`18:49.14`	`Dashkal`	`It's player vs player, not player vs avatar`
`18:49.17`	`Ellipsis`	`...so killing a player who doesn't fight you isn't pvp?`
`18:49.19`	`nevcairiel`	`technically only if its a real fight, both parties playing`
`18:49.22`	`CIA-51`	`03ackis 07NewDB * r81416 10AckisRecipeList/AckisRecipeList/ (5 files in 2 dirs):`
`18:49.22`	`CIA-51`	`AckisRecipeList:`
`18:49.22`	`CIA-51`	`- All functions to add things into the database should be working`
`18:49.22`	`CIA-51`	`- Rewrote First Aid database to allow me to test this tonight`
`18:49.23`	`CIA-51`	`- Removed some more unneeded global scope local variables`
`18:49.23`	`CIA-51`	`- Compartamentalized the reputation/profession tables`
`18:49.24`	`Ellipsis`	`funny how it still gives you honor`
`18:49.25`	`nevcairiel`	`thats just zerging =P`
`18:49.27`	`CIA-51`	`- Dry-coded (compiles with luac -p)`
`18:49.32`	`Ellipsis`	`what about killing a player who is just really stupid?`
`18:49.34`	`nocts\|work`	`Ellipsis: Honor != pvp`
`18:49.35`	`Ellipsis`	`that's not a "real fight"`
`18:49.47`	`Dashkal`	`No, but a player opposed you, so it's vs player`
`18:49.48`	`AckisWork`	`Ellipsis: do you ever agree on anything? :P hehe`
`18:50.02`	`Gnarfoz`	`she lives in her own world ;p`
`18:50.05`	`Dashkal`	`"Real Fight" != PvP either`
`18:50.07`	`Ellipsis`	`AckisWork: I have my own way of viewing things, and I don't appreciate people telling me that it's wrong when it's just a different approach :)`
`18:50.43`	`AckisWork`	`Ellipsis: oh I know you have your own way, and often it disagrees with my way :P besides wanted to give you a hard time`
`18:50.45`	`Dashkal`	`"my own way of viewing things" does seem to involve an awful lot of ignoring denotations of words...`
`18:50.46`	`nocts\|work`	`^`
`18:50.53`	`nocts\|work`	`Like the word versus.`
`18:51.06`	`nocts\|work`	`It only works if you want to change the definition of a word, for yourself.`
`18:51.21`	`Ellipsis`	`see it's very obvious to me how I group pvp and non-pvp: pvp is things I refuse to do because it would involve flagging and/or fighting players, non-pvp is everything else :)`
`18:51.25`	`Primer`	`It's like Einstein said "If the theory doesn't fit the fact, change the facts"`
`18:51.34`	`nocts\|work`	`But that isn't accurate, hence everyone here disagreeing with y ou.`
`18:51.44`	`nocts\|work`	`You can't redefine PvP into something the phrase itself doesn't even mean.`
`18:51.44`	`Ellipsis`	`Dashkal: I have yet to see a definition of "pvp" from any authoritative source`
`18:51.59`	`Dashkal`	`Ellipsis: so use the denotation of the words "player" and "versus"`
`18:52.03`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts\|work: it's accurate for me; that's what I'm trying to explain`
`18:52.18`	`Dashkal`	`PvP isn't its own word apart from the parts`
`18:52.40`	`nocts\|work`	`Ellipsis: Sure. But saying that to you, blue = yellow doesn't actually make it so.`
`18:52.50`	`nocts\|work`	`It makes it wrong.`
`18:52.59`	`Gnarfoz`	`point is, stuff can't be "accurate to you" because it doesn't involve your opinion of things. just the definition of the words that make up the abbreviation ;)`
`18:53.11`	`Ellipsis`	`if I'm colorblind and can't differentiate them, then the two definitions are effectively the same for me ;)`
`18:53.24`	`Gnarfoz`	`can't be blue/yellow colorblind :X`
`18:53.25`	`Dashkal`	`Doesn't make you less wrong...`
`18:53.26`	`nocts\|work`	`And thus you can stand to corrected by people who aren't.`
`18:53.33`	`nevcairiel`	`Gnarfoz: you can be fully color blind`
`18:53.38`	`nocts\|work`	`Instead of saying "sure, that may be, but I don't care"`
`18:53.41`	`Gnarfoz`	`that's something else? :p`
`18:53.44`	`Cheads`	`but what is a player.. is it still pvp if you kill a char where the player is at the toilet? no .. then it's PlayerVersusAFKPlayer ? =)`
`18:53.53`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts\|work: I'm not being corrected, I'm being contradicted`
`18:53.55`	`Ellipsis`	`there's a difference`
`18:54.05`	`*** join/#wowace Diskmaster (n=YOURFACE@CPE-76-85-147-197.neb.res.rr.com)`
`18:54.06`	`nocts\|work`	`You are being corrected. You're using the word versus incorrectly.`
`18:54.08`	`Dashkal`	`Cheads: that's the definition I'd use when being strict about it :p`
`18:54.11`	`Ellipsis`	`how so?`
`18:54.25`	`nocts\|work`	`If there is no versus, then by definition there isn't a PvP involved.`
`18:54.37`	`nocts\|work`	`You can call it PPP, player possible pvp if you want.`
`18:54.38`	`AckisWork`	`if anyone is bored they can try the new branch of ackis recipe list and do a first aid scan on beta and see if it blows up? :D`
`18:54.39`	`Ellipsis`	`so where do you draw the line between what constitutes a player and what doesn't?`
`18:54.40`	`Dashkal`	`~define versus`
`18:54.41`	`purl`	`Use ~dict for definitions.`
`18:54.42`	`nocts\|work`	`But there isn't a versus occuring.`
`18:54.45`	`Dashkal`	`~dict versus`
`18:54.46`	`Ellipsis`	`if the player is afk, is it pvp?`
`18:54.46`	`nocts\|work`	`Um, another player.`
`18:54.50`	`nocts\|work`	`Doesn't matter. Another player.`
`18:55.00`	`nocts\|work`	`Player to player, afk or not. Good or not.`
`18:55.06`	`nocts\|work`	`When combat begins and you are involved with that player.`
`18:55.21`	`Dashkal`	`notes a distinct lack of "potentially" in that definition`
`18:55.24`	`Ellipsis`	`Dashkal: so capturing an objective from the other faction isn't acting "at cross-purposes with" the players on that faction?`
`18:55.26`	`Primer`	`By that same rationale, what if the opponent is simply undergeared or inexperienced?`
`18:55.45`	`Primer`	`Just because it's not "fair" doesn't make it "not PVP"`
`18:55.48`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts\|work: so any combat interaction with a player character is pvp?`
`18:55.55`	`Primer`	`of course`
`18:56.02`	`Dashkal`	`Ellipsis: exactly. Capturing the objective does not work at cross-purposes with the opposing faction IF AND ONLY IF there is not another player opposing you`
`18:56.26`	`Ellipsis`	`how do you figure that?`
`18:56.27`	`nocts\|work`	`Ellipsis: Any combat interaction that alters the status or attribute of your character directly.`
`18:56.33`	`Ellipsis`	`horde doesn't want the tower because if they did they'd be defending it?`
`18:56.36`	`Dashkal`	`if there is no player opposing you, there is no _player_ to be at cross purposes with`
`18:56.45`	`nocts\|work`	`^`
`18:56.47`	`Cheads`	`but is it a player if my mom goes by the computer, accidently bumping into the table and that moves the mouse, and that makes an action, while I'm at the toilet?`
`18:57.02`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts\|work: even if the "player" itself is actually not present?`
`18:57.06`	`nocts\|work`	`Even if.`
`18:57.11`	`nocts\|work`	`It's a player to player.`
`18:57.12`	`Ellipsis`	`how does THAT fit the definition of player vs. player`
`18:57.23`	`nocts\|work`	`Because it's a player versus a player. Accounts versus accounts.`
`18:57.24`	`Ellipsis`	`that's more player vs. virtual representation of a non-existent player`
`18:57.28`	`Dashkal`	`Ellipsis: nocts is using a subtly different definition than I am here.`
`18:57.31`	`nocts\|work`	`AFK/Good or Bad doesn't matter.`
`18:57.33`	`Ellipsis`	`I noticed`
`18:57.37`	`nocts\|work`	`It's still a player account versus an npc.`
`18:57.43`	`nocts\|work`	`A literal translation of PvP.`
`18:57.47`	`Dashkal`	`I'd say no for AFK when being strict. No player, just an avatar`
`18:57.52`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts: you are incorrect because you are using an incorrect definition of "player".`
`18:57.54`	`nocts\|work`	`Still, that's a moral definition.`
`18:58.24`	`nocts\|work`	`Ellipsis: It's a player-based account. That's completely accurate.`
`18:58.24`	`CIA-51`	`03ackis 07NewDB * r81417 10AckisRecipeList/AckisRecipeList/AckisRecipeList.lua:`
`18:58.24`	`CIA-51`	`AckisRecipeList:`
`18:58.24`	`CIA-51`	`- Removed all references to addon.RecipeListing`
`18:58.24`	`CIA-51`	`- Dry-coded (compiles with luac -p)`
`18:58.24`	`CIA-51`	`~dict douche`
`18:58.24`	`Ellipsis`	`"A player of a game is a participant therein."`
`18:58.24`	`Cheads`	`a player is a human being`
`18:58.24`	`Ellipsis`	`there is only one participant in that case`
`18:58.24`	`Ellipsis`	`thus it's player vs. ____`
`18:58.24`	`nocts\|work`	`And if he is logged in, he is participating.`
`18:58.27`	`Dashkal`	`Cheads: careful. wowglider could be considered an artifical player`
`18:58.31`	`nocts\|work`	`Just because he isn't active, doesn't mean he isn't participating.`
`18:58.39`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts: and if he's disconnected but his character is still logged in?`
`18:58.42`	`nocts\|work`	`Something is still happening to him and occuring to him.`
`18:58.46`	`Dashkal`	`"Human being" is not required`
`18:58.48`	`Ellipsis`	`he may not even be AWARE of the fight`
`18:58.50`	`nocts\|work`	`And?`
`18:58.51`	`Ellipsis`	`thus he's not participating`
`18:58.54`	`nocts\|work`	`Player versus Player.`
`18:58.56`	`Cheads`	`we are talking player here right, not an artificial player`
`18:58.57`	`nocts\|work`	`Account versus account.`
`18:59.13`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts\|work: explain to me how a character with no player behind it fits the definition of "player" I posted above`
`18:59.24`	`Ellipsis`	`or any other definition you can find`
`19:00.06`	`nocts\|work`	`Ellipsis: Can't on a call. you can wait.`
`19:00.17`	`Dashkal`	`"Artificial" isn't a required adjective for player. Just because it thinks with circuits and not meat doesn't make it less a player. Undesired, sure, but it's still an external entity participating in the game.`
`19:00.20`	`Ellipsis`	`kk, let me know when you have time`
`19:01.11`	`Cheads`	`when the word player is refered, it's generally used to describe a human that controls some avatar`
`19:01.16`	`Ellipsis`	`Dashkal: so if ganking an afk player is not pvp, what about attacking someone who's present but does not fight back?`
`19:01.23`	`Cheads`	`well.. atleast when we are talking computer games =)`
`19:01.45`	`Dashkal`	`Ellipsis: by the definition that I am using, it would not be PvP by the strict definition of the word to gank someone who just hands off the keyboard`
`19:02.11`	`Ellipsis`	`well, to clarify, I mean that the player is actively involved in playing the game, thus they are a player...but are not pvping against you`
`19:02.12`	`Dashkal`	`Cheads: Generally, yes, this is the common use of the term. But that use is not required by the denotation of the word 'player'`
`19:02.27`	`Ellipsis`	`example: they jump around letting you kill them, or go kill a mob while you stabby-stabby them`
`19:02.44`	`Dashkal`	`Ellipsis: Player. Check. Second player. Check. Versus. Not so much if they choose not to fight back`
`19:02.59`	`Ellipsis`	`so it is or isn't pvp in that case?`
`19:03.01`	`Dashkal`	`but we're getting into motivation`
`19:03.11`	`Dashkal`	`depends on the motivation of the other player. Do they care?`
`19:03.17`	`Ellipsis`	`o.O`
`19:03.22`	`Ellipsis`	`so now it's not pvp if I don't want it to be?`
`19:03.25`	`Dashkal`	`I'm cutting off your 'cross purposes' counter before you get to it :p`
`19:03.34`	`Cheads`	`sure.. the word player could mean an awfull lot of other things.. but when refering to computer games, it's a human that controls a character(or similar thing)`
`19:03.49`	`*** join/#wowace g0urra (n=g0urra@73-236.powerdsl.t3.se)`
`19:04.07`	`Dashkal`	`Cheads: I stand by my comment that wowglider is still a player. An undesired one, yes, but a player by the strict definition of the term.`
`19:04.16`	`*** join/#wowace blademeld (n=chatzill@CPE0012170a61bf-CM001cea399e32.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`19:04.24`	`Cheads`	`I'd certainly call that a bot and not a player`
`19:04.28`	`Dashkal`	`More commonly referred to as a bot :p`
`19:04.31`	`blademeld`	`i heard there's PvP talk going on here`
`19:04.40`	`Ellipsis`	`Dashkal: the problem with that is the "at cross-purposes with" definition implies that you only have to be against them in principle, regardless of whether you're actually acting against them at the time (meaning the unflagged noob who spams /spit at you while you capture the tower is "at cross-purposes with" you)`
`19:04.58`	`Ellipsis`	`do you believe said unflagged noob is pvping against you?`
`19:05.22`	`nocts\|work`	`Okay, because she knows exactly what we're talking about and just refuses to make a paradgim shift to where everyone else is: the origonal comment can be made = You can earn the PvP welfare gear without engaging in combat, attacking, or being attacked. Regardless of the definition, the mentioned is technically possible.`
`19:05.22`	`Dashkal`	`Now we're into territory where definitions may differ without violating the denotation of the words.`
`19:06.06`	`Ellipsis`	`I'm just interpreting the definitions of the words as strictly as possible here, since you guys said that's where I was going wrong`
`19:06.29`	`Dashkal`	`I will concede that point that by the strict definition I have been using, that the noob /spitting on me is pvp.`
`19:06.47`	`Dashkal`	`Obviously this is not PvP in the wow sense, but it fits the words.`
`19:07.23`	`nocts\|work`	`Can everyone at least agree with my statement?`
`19:07.30`	`Dashkal`	`The best definition of pvp in the wow sense, and this is _conjecture_ given the lack of an official definition from blizzard would probably be in "PvP combat" combat flag is up, 6s timer counting down`
`19:07.48`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts\|work: sure, but since you didn't really use the term "pvp" other than to refer to the gear, it has no relevance to the current conversation`
`19:07.55`	`Dashkal`	`nocts\|work: of course`
`19:08.24`	`Ellipsis`	`Dashkal: that's an interesting way to define it, I suppose that works`
`19:08.32`	`nocts\|work`	`It's a bullshit answer :P`
`19:08.38`	`nocts\|work`	`He's giving in and trying to water it down.`
`19:08.51`	`Ellipsis`	`no, it's actually quite an elegant way to cover most of the problems we've listed`
`19:08.59`	`nocts\|work`	`You can be in PvE with a PvP flag and a combat flag.`
`19:09.04`	`Dashkal`	`Negative. I just made a conjecture. Ellipsis is absolutely right in that there is no real definition of "WoW PvP" I made a reasonable suggestion`
`19:09.05`	`nocts\|work`	`But that isn't PvP.`
`19:09.15`	`Dashkal`	`No no no "PvP combat"`
`19:09.19`	`Dashkal`	`not "combat with the PvP flag"`
`19:09.21`	`Dashkal`	`different thing`
`19:09.22`	`Ellipsis`	`I still see a difference between unflagged (pvp is my choice) vs. flagged (pvp is now involuntary), but I like it in terms of the way you guys define pvp`
`19:09.24`	`nocts\|work`	`Ahh`
`19:09.27`	`Dashkal`	`6s timer`
`19:09.50`	`Dashkal`	`Soon as that timer lets up I bird form and take off :p`
`19:10.35`	`AckisWork`	`I think this issue would resolve itself if blizzard deleted all the pve servers and made everything pvp`
`19:10.41`	`Dashkal`	`Ellipsis: definitely a difference between those two states. You have no idea (actually, I bet you do with the bitching I do on the matter) how much I wish I could take my guild to a PvE server :p`
`19:10.50`	`Dashkal`	`~whakecrit AckisWork`
`19:10.52`	`Ellipsis`	`yeah it would AckisWork, people like me would find a different game to play :)`
`19:10.56`	`Dashkal`	`~whalecrit AckisWork`
`19:10.56`	`purl`	`ACTION crits AckisWork with a mathematically skilled whale named Isaac for #NaN. AckisWork dies`
`19:11.01`	`kenlyric`	`pvp isn't your choice if both of you are unflagged....`
`19:11.15`	`sacarasc`	`/mourn AckisWork`
`19:11.20`	`Dashkal`	`kenlyric: true, it becomes more of an offer`
`19:11.33`	`Anaral`	`~mourn AckisWork`
`19:11.34`	`purl`	`ACTION lights some candles for AckisWork`
`19:11.36`	`kenlyric`	`I do enjoy punishing horde flagged pvp in the barrens`
`19:11.45`	`*** join/#wowace Ghli (n=Ghli@c-67-182-187-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`19:11.46`	`kenlyric`	`no matter what server I'm on.`
`19:11.49`	`Lukian`	`AckisWork, sounds good to me`
`19:12.16`	`Dashkal`	`And so you should. I mean, they offered :p`
`19:14.27`	`AckisWork`	`I never really saw the appeal of a pve server`
`19:14.29`	`kenlyric`	`I want to do it to any pvp flagged level 10 in a friendly zone.`
`19:14.36`	`kenlyric`	`not having to pvp`
`19:14.46`	`kenlyric`	`the appeal seems pretty straightforward to me`
`19:15.03`	`g0urra`	`AckisWork: what class are you?`
`19:15.19`	`Dashkal`	`AckisWork: PvE server -> less getting camped.`
`19:15.33`	`AckisWork`	`if you get camped you're an idiot on a pvp server`
`19:15.37`	`Dashkal`	`It's not the one-shot dying that bothers me, it's having to uproot a couple 70s in the guild to come help me`
`19:15.53`	`kenlyric`	`I find it impossible to believe that you are uncapable of comprehending why people wouldn't want to pvp.`
`19:15.56`	`Dashkal`	`AckisWork: ahem? Its somehow my stupidity that allows 70s to chain kill my 20 ass?`
`19:16.00`	`kenlyric`	`you seem to have a functional brain`
`19:16.08`	`kenlyric`	`Dashkal: yes`
`19:16.19`	`Dashkal`	`Obviously. I play on a PvP server :p`
`19:16.25`	`kenlyric`	`stop resurrecting`
`19:16.39`	`Dashkal`	`I do. Often. I just switch chars at the third kill`
`19:16.46`	`Dashkal`	`Which means I've stopped leveling`
`19:17.21`	`AckisWork`	`kenlyric: with the advent of BG's and the arena system, the game is being forced around pvping however those abilities are on pve servers as well... to me when I played on a pve server I was bored as hell, and hence there was no appeal`
`19:17.25`	`kenlyric`	`pvp server made no sense to me when I started playing`
`19:17.36`	`kenlyric`	`because you're a pvp player?`
`19:17.40`	`kenlyric`	`and not everyone is`
`19:17.49`	`AckisWork`	`no I'm terrible at pvp, I despise BG's and arena's`
`19:18.04`	`kenlyric`	`why would I want to make it additionally difficult with no reward`
`19:18.20`	`g0urra`	`I play on a PvE server because I don't get my playing experience disrupted by level 70 players ganking my ass`
`19:18.40`	`Dashkal`	`g0urra sums it up about right.`
`19:18.49`	`g0urra`	`If I want to PvP, I go to arena or BG. Or Halaa or Hellfire Peninsula.`
`19:18.52`	`kenlyric`	`if world pvp offered good reward, it might be worth it`
`19:18.53`	`Dashkal`	`I want to be leveling, not staring at the SH`
`19:18.53`	`Primer`	`but then where's the fun!`
`19:18.57`	`g0urra`	`Or Wintergrasp when it comes`
`19:18.59`	`AckisWork`	`in all my leveling there have been very select moments when I've had a high level player camp me/kill me`
`19:19.07`	`kenlyric`	`it only takes 1`
`19:19.09`	`Dashkal`	`AckisWork: come to failstrom`
`19:19.12`	`kenlyric`	`to make it more annoying than pve`
`19:19.18`	`Dashkal`	`Horde and Alli alike are full of pricks`
`19:19.24`	`Primer`	`Some of my more memorable WoW moments came from pvp`
`19:19.55`	`Dashkal`	`Primer: it isn't same-level PvP that makes PvP servers so painful to level on, it's 70vsLowbie PvP`
`19:19.58`	`Primer`	`like when I pwned a fully buffed/hp/mana level 70 mage 1 on 1 in hellfire on my lock...and I was level 62`
`19:20.49`	`Primer`	`like the time 3 70 horde jumped my lock (now 70 as well, and very well pvp geared), and I pwned them all`
`19:21.07`	`Dashkal`	`That sounds more like an argument for locks being OP in PvP than anything else.`
`19:21.13`	`Dashkal`	`or those players just sucked`
`19:21.16`	`Primer`	`It's no argument`
`19:21.23`	`Primer`	`I'm just relating some of the fun times`
`19:21.42`	`Primer`	`heck, one rogue can CC me to the point where I get my first cast off at 50% health`
`19:21.48`	`Primer`	`my only chance is to run away`
`19:22.07`	`Primer`	`I got killed plenty of times too`
`19:22.13`	`*** join/#wowace [ND] (n=[ND]@h062040167062.gun.cm.kabsi.at)`
`19:22.25`	`*** join/#wowace Belazor (n=Vulcanus@212251189028.customer.cdi.no)`
`19:24.43`	`*** join/#wowace Esine (i=dbguy@tohveli.net)`
`19:25.30`	`*** join/#wowace syeren (i=syeren@cpc3-oldh5-0-0-cust762.manc.cable.ntl.com)`
`19:27.36`	`*** join/#wowace Kody- (n=nope@adsl-99-173-10-198.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`19:27.36`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v Kody-] by ChanServ`
`19:30.18`	`*** join/#wowace Keias (n=Dave@c-69-245-192-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net)`
`19:30.39`	`AckisWork`	`ahhh I need wood on my colony!`
`19:31.09`	`nevcairiel`	`lol`
`19:31.19`	`AckisWork`	`nevcairiel give me your wood!`
`19:31.22`	`AckisWork`	`teheheeh's`
`19:31.52`	`AckisWork`	`I'm at 70:73 if that means anything to you :P`
`19:32.01`	`nevcairiel`	`man thats far away`
`19:32.06`	`fewyn`	`wait`
`19:32.10`	`fewyn`	`are you playing ogame?`
`19:32.20`	`*** part/#wowace g0urra (n=g0urra@73-236.powerdsl.t3.se)`
`19:32.24`	`nevcairiel`	`no`
`19:32.25`	`nevcairiel`	`ikariam`
`19:32.28`	`fewyn`	`ah`
`19:32.29`	`AckisWork`	`fewyn: yes but this is a diff game`
`19:32.34`	`fewyn`	`xD`
`19:32.40`	`fewyn`	`i played ogame YEARS ago`
`19:32.47`	`fewyn`	`with a bunch of people at Allakhazam`
`19:32.54`	`AckisWork`	`I'm on uni 7 in ogame, just started up again here like 3 weeks ago lol`
`19:33.18`	`fewyn`	`i forget why i quit`
`19:33.21`	`AckisWork`	`nevcairiel: where are you?`
`19:33.35`	`nocts\|work`	`Dashkal: I think that's overplayed. Sure it happens every so often, but more often than not every time I've leveled on a pvp server it's rare.`
`19:33.38`	`nevcairiel`	`37:59`
`19:34.08`	`Dashkal`	`nocts\|work: my personal experience is one gank/camp every 3-4 levels. I die roughly once every other level`
`19:34.36`	`Dashkal`	`Lots of people on failstrom just in it to gank lowbies.`
`19:34.52`	`Dashkal`	`I come in with a 70 and my sucks-at-pvp-feral-ass drops them like a stone`
`19:34.59`	`AckisWork`	`invades nevcairiel`
`19:35.02`	`nocts\|work`	`Dashkal: Once every other level really isn't that much of a slowing down.`
`19:35.08`	`AckisWork`	`I'm going to invade you with my wood!`
`19:35.17`	`Dashkal`	`Still costs me a good half hour of leveling time`
`19:35.25`	`AckisWork`	`one day I will mature... and what a sad day that will be`
`19:35.39`	`nocts\|work`	`Dashkal: Why not just log off for 10, come back on after he's bored?`
`19:36.14`	`Dashkal`	`nocts\|work: I do. I'm playing under time budgets of about 2 hours. losing even 20 mintues of that is a significant chunk of my free time`
`19:37.06`	`nocts\|work`	`Dashkal: WTS kids?`
`19:37.26`	`Dashkal`	`nocts\|work: sadly, with the free time I have, when I have kids it'll prolly be the end of wow :(`
`19:37.48`	`AckisWork`	`we hope Dashkal just won't breed`
`19:37.55`	`Ellipsis`	`Dashkal: needs moar relax`
`19:38.00`	`nocts\|work`	`WTT [Chinese Gold Farming Wife] for [Sex Slave]`
`19:38.22`	`Dashkal`	`Ellipsis: You are more right than you know. Nerdrage city`
`19:41.01`	`digmouse`	`oh premade removed?`
`19:41.29`	`AckisWork`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:41.38`	`AckisWork`	`http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=9658135792&pageNo=1&sid=2000#14`
`19:41.45`	`*** join/#wowace whizter (n=whizter@dslb-088-077-018-112.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`19:46.21`	`nocts\|work`	`nevcairiel, last chance to suggest a reason to use full towers before I settle on a mid-tower.`
`19:46.40`	`sacarasc`	`MOAR SPACE!`
`19:46.42`	`sacarasc`	`heh`
`19:46.48`	`nevcairiel`	`I have a mid myself, why do you ask me :P`
`19:46.49`	`AckisWork`	`more room in case to fit big hands`
`19:46.54`	`nevcairiel`	`Actually, i just moved from full to mid`
`19:47.13`	`nocts\|work`	`I mean, unless someone can actually tell me what to put in those 5'' besides hard drives, I don't see a reason.`
`19:47.36`	`Ellipsis`	`resists the temptation to turn that into a dirty joke`
`19:47.41`	`nocts\|work`	`hehe`
`19:48.15`	`nevcairiel`	`I had a pretty old chieftec full tower, it was so damn heavy, and i hate carrying the thing to lan partys or whatever, so i got a light aluminium case, mid of course`
`19:48.19`	`Dashkal`	`Ellipsis: You resisted? I'm disappointed in you :p`
`19:48.24`	`kenlyric`	`you don't need to turn that into a dirty joke`
`19:48.29`	`kenlyric`	`it already was one`
`19:48.45`	`Ellipsis`	`steel mid or gtfo`
`19:49.00`	`nocts\|work`	`^ no wai`
`19:49.01`	`Ellipsis`	`(for lans at least)`
`19:49.22`	`nocts\|work`	`Get good quality aluminum and it still won't dent.`
`19:49.31`	`nocts\|work`	`http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112148 << my current choice of case, for now.`
`19:49.43`	`Ellipsis`	`steel mid = I can use it as a chair or stepstool, but it's not bigger than me and I can probably carry it :P`
`19:51.08`	`whizter`	`Lian Li A77A ftw`
`19:51.34`	`nocts\|work`	`We're going mid tower :P`
`19:51.48`	`nocts\|work`	`No comments on that lian-li I linked? Interesting`
`19:52.21`	`whizter`	`got a midi Lian Li now, but it's an older one and crap. the side doors are chattering cause of the HDDs, they fixed that in the newer models.`
`19:53.42`	`*** join/#wowace mikezter (n=Miranda@pD9535CDA.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:54.06`	`*** join/#wowace Vulcanus (n=Vulcanus@212251189028.customer.cdi.no)`
`19:55.38`	`CIA-51`	`03thrillseeker * r81418 10Automaton/modules/Gossip/GossipData.lua:`
`19:55.42`	`CIA-51`	`Automaton: Gossip Module:`
`19:55.44`	`CIA-51`	`I deactiveted the auto-TurnIn of "Mark of Honor's"`
`19:55.46`	`CIA-51`	`because WotLK is coming and I guess(...) most players`
`19:55.48`	`CIA-51`	`will hoard those making it very unfortunate if they`
`19:55.50`	`CIA-51`	`get turned in accidently.`
`19:55.55`	`*** join/#wowace Gngsk (n=Gngsk@c-69-138-214-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net)`
`19:58.54`	`*** join/#wowace Shirik (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik)`
`19:58.54`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v Shirik] by ChanServ`
`20:00.31`	`Kolie`	`damn mac;s.`
`20:00.50`	`evl`	`Anyone know why the top guilds are suddenly forking out 50-300g for a Frozen Rune?`
`20:00.59`	`Gnarfoz`	`boredom.`
`20:01.00`	`Kolie`	`The Find an addon tab, and by extension the other addon tabs, can not be sorted with clickable headers yay.`
`20:01.15`	`nevcairiel`	`evl: they probably assume the same item will still be useful in new naxx`
`20:01.27`	`nevcairiel`	`which i seriously doubt`
`20:01.41`	`nevcairiel`	`or they want the old frost-resist gear`
`20:01.52`	`evl`	`seems unlikely`
`20:01.57`	`evl`	`70 greens with frost res are better`
`20:02.09`	`nevcairiel`	`true`
`20:02.12`	`nevcairiel`	`weird then!`
`20:02.25`	`evl`	`it''s not just one guild its several`
`20:02.30`	`evl`	`secrets`
`20:02.49`	`evl`	`any way to measure an addons mem usage without disembedding?`
`20:03.06`	`Gnarfoz`	`not really?`
`20:03.27`	`evl`	`nevcairiel: any idea how much mem BT4 uses roughly?`
`20:03.36`	`evl`	`nevcairiel: shows up as 900k here which I presume is Ace3 & Co.`
`20:04.24`	`nevcairiel`	`uses about 300-400 if you didnt open the options`
`20:06.10`	`evl`	`nevcairiel: any plans on adding flypaper or similar btw?`
`20:08.29`	`Esine`	`Is there any way to save lua "classes" smartly? by classes I mean: Class = {} Class:new() class = {} return setmetatable(class,{__index=Class}) end Class:method() something here end`
`20:08.52`	`nevcairiel`	`evl: the wrath version has a snap-to support`
`20:09.02`	`evl`	`nevcairiel: okay nice, i'll wait for that then`
`20:09.03`	`Ellipsis`	`Esine: save the lua that creates them ;)`
`20:09.13`	`Esine`	`Ellipsis, are you serious?`
`20:09.29`	`Esine`	`um`
`20:09.33`	`Esine`	`I meant SavedVariables`
`20:09.48`	`Ellipsis`	`I kinda am`
`20:09.48`	`nevcairiel`	`save the data thats needed to re-create them?`
`20:10.02`	`Ellipsis`	`metatables don't get written to svs`
`20:10.05`	`Esine`	`they don't.`
`20:10.24`	`Esine`	`but I mean when I'd have tens of thousands of objects like that.. that'd really hinder performance :(`
`20:10.34`	`Ellipsis`	`so if you want to keep them, either your code has to recreate them again, or you need to save the method of generating them (which is most easily done by saving the lua)`
`20:10.44`	`nevcairiel`	`first of all, tens of thousands of tables eat memory =P`
`20:10.59`	`Esine`	`yeah, my addon can use up to tens of megabytes`
`20:11.00`	`Esine`	`it's np`
`20:11.19`	`Ellipsis`	`Esine: if your code knows what the class is, all your object tables have to do is store some identifier for their class`
`20:11.31`	`Ellipsis`	`then your code can just attach the correct metatable based on that`
`20:11.36`	`Esine`	`hm yes..`
`20:12.00`	`Ellipsis`	`so if myobject.class = "awesomeclass" then you can look up "awesomeclass" and get its mt`
`20:13.12`	`Esine`	`or maybe I should just go back to passing the objects as parameters to functions :/ the code wouldn't be so clean then but the performance hit wouldn't be that bad`
`20:13.56`	`*** join/#wowace Adirelle (n=adirelle@tok69-5-82-235-150-60.fbx.proxad.net)`
`20:14.09`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81419 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/ (22 files in 10 dirs): SimpleSelfRebuff: preparing addon tree to handle LoadOnDemand modules.`
`20:14.35`	`Adirelle`	`the svn repo rejects .bat and .sh, isn't it ?`
`20:14.49`	`Ellipsis`	`yes, unless you have special permission for them`
`20:15.12`	`Adirelle`	`it seems I don't`
`20:15.14`	`cncfanatics`	`~seen Tifri`
`20:15.16`	`purl`	`i haven't seen 'tifri', cncfanatics`
`20:15.16`	`cncfanatics`	`~seen Tifi`
`20:15.17`	`purl`	`tifi <n=Queequeg@dslb-088-074-015-169.pools.arcor-ip.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowace, 1d 3h 40m 3s ago, saying: 'rofl n1 xD'.`
`20:15.49`	`CIA-51`	`03nevcairiel * r81420 10StatLogicLib/StatLogic-1.0/StatLogic-1.0.lua: StatLogicLib: fix typos`
`20:19.08`	`CIA-51`	`03nevcairiel * r81421 10BigBrother/ (BigBrother.lua BigBrother.toc): BigBrother: add FuBar2Broker to the OptDeps in the .toc so it works with it, and additionally allow BigBrother to work without FBP-2.0 at all`
`20:19.31`	`Ellipsis`	`aww, that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy`
`20:19.48`	`nevcairiel`	`its still all evil ace2 etc`
`20:19.58`	`Ellipsis`	`yes but one less evil lib :D`
`20:20.35`	`nevcairiel`	`it only used fubar as a launcher for its icon for the config`
`20:20.42`	`*** join/#wowace cubicool (n=cubicool@router.emperor-sw2.exsbs.net)`
`20:20.43`	`nevcairiel`	`what a waste anyway :P`
`20:21.15`	`*** part/#wowace cubicool (n=cubicool@router.emperor-sw2.exsbs.net)`
`20:23.23`	`*** join/#wowace Soulsbane (n=Soulsban@dial-69-55-144-76.sofnet.net)`
`20:24.12`	`*** join/#wowace Vulcanus (n=Vulcanus@212251189028.customer.cdi.no)`
`20:24.43`	`Gnarfoz`	`nevcairiel: I'll add a display for 'number of people without foodbuff/elixirs/flasks' just to shut you fubar haters up :p`
`20:24.59`	`Ellipsis`	`honestly I hate that LDB even got a launcher spec`
`20:25.03`	`Ellipsis`	`it just encourages more of that stupid crap`
`20:25.11`	`Gnarfoz`	`yeah, go minimap buttons!`
`20:25.13`	`nevcairiel`	`Gnarfoz: I bet you'll break my optional-only fubar support`
`20:25.24`	`Gnarfoz`	`nevcairiel: I'll probably remove it in the process! :D`
`20:25.31`	`*** join/#wowace Belazor (n=Vulcanus@212251189028.customer.cdi.no)`
`20:25.34`	`nevcairiel`	`Then I'll kill you`
`20:25.38`	`Ellipsis`	`you has an addon. now you also has an LDB dependency AND a useless button`
`20:25.42`	`nevcairiel`	`And Ellipsis will assist`
`20:25.47`	`Gnarfoz`	`I dun care`
`20:26.05`	`Stanzilla`	`8/9 T3 \o/`
`20:26.22`	`Gnarfoz`	`Stanzilla: oO for looks? ^^`
`20:26.25`	`Stanzilla`	`yes`
`20:26.26`	`Stanzilla`	`< priest`
`20:26.31`	`Gnarfoz`	`hawt`
`20:26.33`	`Stanzilla`	`best looking T3 set after druids :D`
`20:26.44`	`nevcairiel`	`in your face!`
`20:26.45`	`nevcairiel`	`:D`
`20:26.47`	`Stanzilla`	`:D`
`20:26.47`	`Gnarfoz`	`druid looks pretty bad :X`
`20:26.53`	`nevcairiel`	`I loved druid T3`
`20:26.54`	`Stanzilla`	`druid is power ranger :P`
`20:27.04`	`nevcairiel`	`hide the head, though`
`20:27.12`	`nevcairiel`	`paladin was amazingly funny`
`20:27.14`	`*** join/#wowace Nechckn (n=N@c-98-218-229-122.hsd1.dc.comcast.net)`
`20:27.24`	`Gnarfoz`	`warrior was awesome, and pally wasn't all pink and glitzy :D`
`20:27.28`	`Stanzilla`	`oh I forgot warrior`
`20:27.32`	`Stanzilla`	`thats awesome, too`
`20:27.38`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v Nechckn] by ChanServ`
`20:27.40`	`nevcairiel`	`pallys had wins!`
`20:27.42`	`nevcairiel`	`*wings!`
`20:28.03`	`steev`	`we have always had wings`
`20:28.06`	`Gnarfoz`	`is it a bird? is it an airplane? no... it's a PALADIN!`
`20:28.22`	`Gnarfoz`	`steev: uhmno? :<`
`20:28.24`	`steev`	`although i still don't have the trinket to give me red wings :(`
`20:28.35`	`steev`	`Gnarfoz: well, avenging wrath :-P`
`20:28.44`	`*** join/#wowace Yssaril (n=Yssaril@adsl-99-145-232-253.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)`
`20:28.46`	`Gnarfoz`	`well, good day to you, mister BC player`
`20:29.34`	`*** join/#wowace Kingroms (i=WinNT@213.21.83.39)`
`20:32.33`	`NeoTron`	`Ellipsis: if you don't want the launcher button... just don't show it?`
`20:32.37`	`NeoTron`	`Ellipsis: options good, not bad`
`20:33.59`	`Ellipsis`	`I agree`
`20:34.05`	`Ellipsis`	`the option to not install LDB would be good too`
`20:34.29`	`nevcairiel`	`LDB itself is really just a few KB, you are really way to OCD :P`
`20:34.37`	`Gnarfoz`	`3229, as I said earlier :X`
`20:34.48`	`Ellipsis`	`yes, I am, and I take that as a compliment`
`20:34.56`	`Ellipsis`	`also, I don't care about its size`
`20:35.19`	`Ellipsis`	`it's one more point of failure in my UI; a (very slight, admittedly) chance of causing problems for absolutely zero gain`
`20:35.24`	`*** join/#wowace NeoRevan (n=Vulcanus@212251189028.customer.cdi.no)`
`20:35.29`	`NeoTron`	`...`
`20:35.29`	`Gnarfoz`	`for gain you don't want`
`20:35.32`	`Gnarfoz`	`not 0 gain`
`20:35.39`	`Ellipsis`	`it is zero gain FOR ME`
`20:35.43`	`Gnarfoz`	`and don't re-phrase that as "for me"`
`20:35.47`	`Ellipsis`	`I'm not saying the lib shouldn't exist, just that it shouldn't exist on my computer.`
`20:36.49`	`nevcairiel`	`LDB is totally detached from the blizzard API, I dont see it causing issues on its own =P`
`20:36.52`	`nocts\|work`	`And to be honest, optional should be optional. Not "optional but we're going to require it anyway"`
`20:37.05`	`nevcairiel`	`no-one said its optional, ha :P`
`20:37.32`	`nocts\|work`	`Why is it required?`
`20:37.46`	`AckisWork`	`shoves LDB down Ellipsis' throat.`
`20:38.00`	`Ellipsis`	`its functionality is optional, thus its presence should be optional`
`20:38.26`	`Ellipsis`	`why you think it's ok to FORCE someone to install software they're not using is beyond me`
`20:38.37`	`Ellipsis`	`I don't care how small it is, it's still dumb`
`20:38.38`	`nocts\|work`	`^`
`20:38.54`	`AckisWork`	`Ellipsis: how do you feel about the babble libs? :P`
`20:38.55`	`Arrowmaster`	`Ellipsis: the software publishers do it why cant we?`
`20:39.01`	`nevcairiel`	`Thats one of your crazy opinions, other people just think its part of their addon, why shouldnt they include and require it`
`20:39.06`	`Ellipsis`	`Arrowmaster: because I can edit your code bwahahaha`
`20:39.11`	`NeoRevan`	`you're supposed to be better than them arrow :p`
`20:39.15`	`nocts\|work`	`Arrowmaster: Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. And just because someone else doesn't, doesn't make it right.`
`20:39.16`	`Ellipsis`	`AckisWork: oh hush, troll :P`
`20:39.34`	`Arrowmaster`	`that was a joke.....`
`20:39.34`	`AckisWork`	`Ellipsis: lol :D`
`20:39.45`	`Ellipsis`	`nocts\|work is srs business.`
`20:39.52`	`cncfanatics`	`IRC is srs business rly`
`20:39.57`	`cncfanatics`	`no sarcasm allowed`
`20:40.01`	`NeoRevan`	`Internets. Srs bsns`
`20:40.06`	`AckisWork`	`but in all seriousness Ellipsis, do you edit out non-english locals on mods you download?`
`20:40.14`	`smcn`	`TIISB!`
`20:40.44`	`NeoRevan`	`Y SO SRS`
`20:40.47`	`Ellipsis`	`nevcairiel: my "crazy opinion" is that useless things are useless; sorry if you don't agree but as I've said before I will continue to set up my UI as I want it to be, and notify authors of any issues with their addons that could potentially be problematic for users.`
`20:41.06`	`nevcairiel`	`"Users" download a zip and use it`
`20:41.08`	`Ellipsis`	`AckisWork: no, of course not...I have a script to do that for me :)`
`20:41.09`	`nevcairiel`	`You are no "user"`
`20:41.24`	`NeoRevan`	`That is no orc horn!`
`20:41.32`	`Ellipsis`	`I have custom "babble light" libs that I update by hand, and any addon with separate locale files will have those removed as needed`
`20:41.50`	`AckisWork`	`Ellipsis: you're probably 0.01% of the user base for addons... :P`
`20:41.52`	`Ellipsis`	`nevcairiel: so users don't disembed libs?`
`20:42.03`	`Ellipsis`	`AckisWork: yes, the very rare person who actually CARES about their code`
`20:42.05`	`nevcairiel`	`Ellipsis: they shouldn't`
`20:42.08`	`Arrowmaster`	`they dont`
`20:42.11`	`NeoRevan`	`Im fairly certain less than 0.01% of people bother with removing locale files XD`
`20:42.12`	`Ellipsis`	`their updaters do.`
`20:42.13`	`Arrowmaster`	`WAU does it for them`
`20:42.16`	`nevcairiel`	`they only do because other people say its "great"`
`20:42.25`	`nevcairiel`	`but they have no clue why`
`20:42.26`	`Arrowmaster`	`and then they come crying when they get an error`
`20:42.28`	`nevcairiel`	`or how`
`20:42.43`	`Ellipsis`	`I don't know why you believe you can decide what they "should" or "shouldn't" do since the official policy has been to allow disembedding`
`20:42.43`	`NeoRevan`	`#wowace: Disgruntled Programmers 101`
`20:42.44`	`NeoRevan`	`XD`
`20:43.13`	`nevcairiel`	`I can decide anything :)`
`20:43.37`	`nocts\|work`	`Even if they download a zip and use it, they should still be able to get rid of libraries they aren't going to be using, gracefully. Doesn't anyone remember Winamp and similar where modules and plugins can easily be deleted and inserted?`
`20:43.47`	`nevcairiel`	`But troll the forum for disembed discussions, its already full of that`
`20:43.50`	`Vulcanus`	`But if you decide to be a penis and hardcode disembed disallowance then people will just use other addons, lol`
`20:44.02`	`nevcairiel`	`nocts\|work: thats still not the typical "user"`
`20:44.10`	`nevcairiel`	`thats super-users that actually know what a library is`
`20:44.20`	`nocts\|work`	`nevcairiel: And? You can't punish the power users for the typical users. Both should be able to do it gracefully without the mod itself being incompatible.`
`20:44.41`	`Obelixprime`	`is there a script command for targeting your focus?`
`20:44.43`	`Arrowmaster`	`nocts\|work: you cant compare wow addons to systems that use dlls`
`20:44.48`	`nevcairiel`	`nocts\|work: if i decide a certain part is a key feature in my addon, and dont make it optional, who are you to question me?`
`20:45.05`	`nocts\|work`	`nevcairiel: Someone who uses mods?`
`20:45.23`	`Ellipsis`	`nevcairiel: are you going to argue that LDB is a key feature of any addon which only uses it for a launcher?`
`20:45.24`	`nocts\|work`	`You do make them for that reason, right?`
`20:45.39`	`nevcairiel`	`I make addons because i enjoy coding and use them myself`
`20:45.43`	`nevcairiel`	`not to please people, generally`
`20:45.56`	`Ellipsis`	`so if someone points out an issue you won't fix it because you don't have that problem?`
`20:46.03`	`nocts\|work`	`nevcairiel: http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/search.php`
`20:46.09`	`nocts\|work`	`Search for your name.`
`20:46.21`	`Stanzilla`	`feels a bit like in a Debating Society`
`20:46.30`	`nocts\|work`	`When you make something public, for public consumption, in a place where there are bug reports and suggestion threads, you aren't hoping it's just for you.`
`20:46.33`	`Vulcanus`	`Obelixprime: Im not sure if you can do it from Lua, but in a macro, you can use [target=focus] for the ability`
`20:46.34`	`Ellipsis`	`Stanzilla: welcome to Ellipsisland`
`20:46.35`	`Arrowmaster`	`so get the author of those addons to add the ldb launcher in a seperate file so you can delete it from the addon folder`
`20:46.37`	`AckisWork`	`what event is fired when you learn/unlearn a tradeskill?`
`20:46.41`	`nocts\|work`	`You want the recognition without the responsibility.`
`20:46.49`	`[dRaCo]`	`jeez, if you dont like how nev or anyone writes their addons, don't use them.`
`20:46.50`	`Ellipsis`	`Arrowmaster: that would be fine too`
`20:46.55`	`nevcairiel`	`Ellipsis: Usually errors that i dont have myself are either invalid anyway or circumstancial`
`20:46.57`	`Ellipsis`	`[dRaCo]: oh I already don't`
`20:47.01`	`Obelixprime`	`is there a script like TargetByName or is that protected?`
`20:47.13`	`[dRaCo]`	`well, if you dont, why do you care?`
`20:47.18`	`nocts\|work`	`[dRaCo]: I don't either. Does that mean that we can't make suggestions for improvement across a different userbase?`
`20:47.19`	`Vulcanus`	`not sure, Ill try to look`
`20:47.21`	`Ellipsis`	`because I believe it is bad design`
`20:47.41`	`[dRaCo]`	`and he doesn't.`
`20:47.46`	`[dRaCo]`	`that's life.`
`20:47.48`	`Ellipsis`	`which is part of why I don't use his addons`
`20:48.21`	`Obelixprime`	`i want to do something like /targetexact monsterA; /script if (IsActionInRange(2))=0 then TargetByName("monster B"); end; /cast Lightning Bolt`
`20:48.29`	`Obelixprime`	`but rather than specifiying monster B i want it to be my focus`
`20:48.30`	`Ellipsis`	`Obelixprime: you can't`
`20:48.34`	`nevcairiel`	`If you already believe my design is bad, how could you ever use PitBull? :P`
`20:48.36`	`Vulcanus`	`you cant do that`
`20:49.08`	`Gnarfoz`	`probably doesn't, nevcairiel`
`20:49.14`	`nocts\|work`	`nevcairiel: I don't?`
`20:49.15`	`Ellipsis`	`nevcairiel: I don't use pitbull either actually, but I don't see any huge design flaws in it, and any that I did see I either fixed myself or had ck fix`
`20:49.32`	`Ellipsis`	`he didn't seem to mind since they were, you know, design flaws`
`20:49.34`	`nevcairiel`	`nocts\|work: not talking to you, so shush :P`
`20:49.45`	`nocts\|work`	`I have an issue with it too.`
`20:49.46`	`nevcairiel`	`So what design flaws do my addons have?`
`20:50.06`	`Vulcanus`	`I can already imagine how it was: "CKK! THIS ADDON USES 4.13 KB MORE MEMORY THAN IT NEEDS TO! FIX IT OR YOU DON'T GET ANY FOR A WEEK!"`
`20:50.18`	`Ellipsis`	`honestly, I couldn't tell you when it comes to your current work; the LDB in BT4 issue was random but bothered me quite a bit`
`20:50.34`	`Ellipsis`	`I stopped using BT3 when I read bongos2's code`
`20:50.38`	`nevcairiel`	`I just added the plugin yesterday`
`20:50.41`	`*** join/#wowace topsub (n=josh@cpe-075-176-027-152.carolina.res.rr.com)`
`20:50.46`	`Ellipsis`	`I understand that`
`20:50.52`	`ckknight`	`Vulcanus: blah`
`20:51.05`	`Ellipsis`	`and you did the sensible thing and made the code handle the lack of LDB gracefully`
`20:51.05`	`*** join/#wowace seracht (n=awaonh@82-43-105-154.cable.ubr10.croy.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`20:51.08`	`seracht`	`hi mates`
`20:51.11`	`Ellipsis`	`as soon as it was brought to your attention`
`20:51.11`	`Vulcanus`	`XD`
`20:51.23`	`Vulcanus`	`ckknight: was I right? XD`
`20:51.24`	`Ellipsis`	`which I do greatly appreciate, as I said`
`20:51.25`	`Kolie`	`kaelten:`
`20:51.25`	`nevcairiel`	`Still you troll me for my bad design`
`20:51.29`	`nevcairiel`	`:)`
`20:51.35`	`ckknight`	`we did play strip bugfixing once, Vulcanus`
`20:51.43`	`Vulcanus`	`lmao`
`20:51.46`	`seracht`	`quick question for you guys, do you have any recommended UIs for laptops?`
`20:51.47`	`Ellipsis`	`no, actually I troll poorly designed addons for their bad design`
`20:51.55`	`Ellipsis`	`I am not criticizing you as an author nor your code`
`20:52.01`	`ckknight`	`seracht: what'd make em so different from desktops?`
`20:52.05`	`Ellipsis`	`I may disagree with you on certain subjects, however :)`
`20:52.11`	`seracht`	`ckknight lack of monitor space?`
`20:52.17`	`seracht`	`don't want to overcrowd the screen`
`20:52.17`	`Vulcanus`	`you both sit down and try to fix bugs, whoever fixes them last loses and had to take off a piece of clothing?`
`20:52.27`	`Ellipsis`	`Vulcanus: something like that`
`20:52.31`	`ckknight`	`seracht: just try to be minimalistic, my recommendation`
`20:52.36`	`nocts\|work`	`And the whole "don't like it, don't use it" is just a sour approach. Bad design is bad design. If you release it for public consumption but don't want to take advice on it, That's quite dissapointing. You're abusing the viral methodology of addon reputation but only catering to your own needs.`
`20:52.42`	`Stanzilla`	`omg`
`20:52.42`	`Vulcanus`	`I need a girl like that, srsli XD`
`20:52.43`	`ckknight`	`only show things on the screen that you need to see at that point in time, etc.`
`20:52.44`	`Ellipsis`	`it was more like ck was neglecting his jira tickets so I added some incentive for him to get them out of the way`
`20:52.44`	`Stanzilla`	`9/9`
`20:53.02`	`Gnarfoz`	`Stanzilla: a ring is you?`
`20:53.06`	`Vulcanus`	`Want: [X] Do - [] Do Not`
`20:53.09`	`Stanzilla`	`yes`
`20:53.09`	`Ellipsis`	`grats Stanzilla :)`
`20:53.14`	`Stanzilla`	`lucky day :D`
`20:53.16`	`ckknight`	`nocts\|work: who are you referring to?`
`20:53.22`	`Gnarfoz`	`sadly, I sold all my t3 mats :X`
`20:53.24`	`seracht`	`hmm, mine is pretty minimialistic, except it doesn't look good on my latop anymore...http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowscrnshot082208124059fx9.jpg`
`20:53.26`	`Dashkal`	`nocts\|work: You just explained so very succinctly why I hate pidgin with a passion`
`20:53.35`	`Ellipsis`	`Dashkal: needs moar carrier imo`
`20:53.39`	`seracht`	`feels to crowded, especially on a 13.3" screen`
`20:53.48`	`Dashkal`	`Ellipsis: you lost me`
`20:53.58`	`Ellipsis`	`um...carrier? funpidgin?`
`20:54.04`	`ckknight`	`seracht: imo, your bottom can be compacted`
`20:54.05`	`Ellipsis`	`the fork of pidgin that cares about its users?`
`20:54.07`	`Dashkal`	`oh yeah, forgot about the fork`
`20:54.10`	`*** join/#wowace Diao (i=vschiu@adsl-75-62-180-17.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`20:54.12`	`Vulcanus`	`So considering BT4 doesn't look different, doesn't work different (from my PoV, I use it to display 4 action bars and skin them via BF), why does LDB need to be required to run BT4 without errors?`
`20:54.13`	`ckknight`	`seracht: stick the chat boxes closer to the corners`
`20:54.14`	`seracht`	`how so ckknight?`
`20:54.18`	`Dashkal`	`I'll have to look at that now. danke for the reminder`
`20:54.26`	`ckknight`	`minimap and such as well`
`20:54.28`	`nevcairiel`	`Vulcanus: it doesnt`
`20:54.35`	`seracht`	`minimap top right corner seems to free up more space`
`20:54.37`	`Dashkal`	`Using kopete atm, but I want to switch back to something cross platform`
`20:54.38`	`nevcairiel`	`Vulcanus: at least in the Git version =P`
`20:54.41`	`Ellipsis`	`Dashkal: it's really coming along well imo`
`20:54.48`	`Dashkal`	`Ellipsis: offline MSN message support?`
`20:54.48`	`ckknight`	`not sure why your action bars are so spread apart and so far from the bottom`
`20:54.53`	`Gnarfoz`	`svn version, too, you did fix backport that?`
`20:55.00`	`nevcairiel`	`I did?`
`20:55.01`	`Dashkal`	`the only one I've seen with it is amsn. and that one.. dissappointed me`
`20:55.02`	`Ellipsis`	`Dashkal: couldn't say, I don't use msn much`
`20:55.04`	`nevcairiel`	`looks at history`
`20:55.04`	`seracht`	`i'm not sure either ckknight :P thanks for the tips`
`20:55.08`	`Gnarfoz`	`for wrath branch, or something oO`
`20:55.09`	`seracht`	`will try to push things down more`
`20:55.12`	`Dashkal`	`kk, I'll look into it. thanks`
`20:55.31`	`Vulcanus`	`well in the WAU version, LDB-1.1 is in /libs/ even though I disembed, so whoever added it there hacked around the Line 115 LibStub call error when LDB isn't there :p`
`20:55.32`	`Gnarfoz`	`I whined about your broken commit notes for the git -> svn commits, how else would I have known`
`20:56.26`	`*** join/#wowace Jygga (i=Jygga@port-212-202-202-34.dynamic.qsc.de)`
`20:57.12`	`*** join/#wowace Arrowmaster (n=Arrow@unaffiliated/arrowmaster)`
`20:57.48`	`Arrowmaster`	`wtf`
`20:57.50`	`Arrowmaster`	`purl just spamed me that i have botmail 4x times`
`20:58.06`	`nocts\|work`	`Dashkal: I agree 100% with you on that. Long live Carrier`
`20:58.39`	`CIA-51`	`03nevcairiel 07WotlK * r81422 10Bartender4/ (Bar.lua Bartender4.lua Bartender4.toc libs/SimpleSticky.lua):`
`20:58.39`	`CIA-51`	`Bartender4: merge changes from GitHub`
`20:58.39`	`CIA-51`	`- Bar Snapping`
`20:58.39`	`CIA-51`	`- Fade-Out changes`
`20:59.11`	`nevcairiel`	`wtb new wowace`
`20:59.14`	`Dashkal`	`Did I see fadeout and bt4 mentioned together?`
`20:59.14`	`nevcairiel`	`want to step merging :P`
`20:59.24`	`nevcairiel`	`fade-out was always in`
`20:59.28`	`nevcairiel`	`now its just more awesome`
`20:59.32`	`Dashkal`	`heh`
`20:59.49`	`Dashkal`	`where should I look for the most stable version of bt4 that's 3.x ready?`
`21:00.04`	`*** join/#wowace NeoRevan (n=Vulcanus@212251189028.customer.cdi.no)`
`21:00.08`	`nevcairiel`	`I dunno`
`21:00.19`	`nevcairiel`	`If you're fine with git, just get the github branch`
`21:00.22`	`nevcairiel`	`otherwise just go with svn`
`21:00.31`	`Gnarfoz`	`git. nomen est omen.`
`21:00.44`	`Dashkal`	`git is no problem. Is there a link to your github anywhere I can remember without emailing a url to myself?`
`21:00.56`	`nevcairiel`	`http://github.com/Nevcairiel/bartender4`
`21:01.02`	`Arrowmaster`	`this damn git svn fetch is still running....... i think i started it on sunday or monday..........`
`21:01.14`	`nevcairiel`	`Arrowmaster: haha`
`21:01.16`	`Dashkal`	`emails to self`
`21:01.16`	`nevcairiel`	`full repo?`
`21:01.20`	`Arrowmaster`	`yes`
`21:01.32`	`nevcairiel`	`oh yeah thats going to be a while`
`21:01.36`	`nevcairiel`	`what revision is it at?`
`21:01.37`	`Arrowmaster`	`from a local mirror`
`21:01.45`	`Arrowmaster`	`59127`
`21:02.10`	`nevcairiel`	`Tekkub fix github :(`
`21:02.30`	`nevcairiel`	`ah it works again`
`21:02.30`	`Tekkub`	`no`
`21:03.01`	`Arrowmaster`	`and i might have to do it again, because im not sure if the default layout is even going to work well on the repo`
`21:04.05`	`Obelixprime`	`to focus your target using a macro you do /focus [target=target] right?`
`21:04.19`	`nevcairiel`	`yea`
`21:04.22`	`*** join/#wowace Belazor (n=Vulcanus@212251189028.customer.cdi.no)`
`21:04.25`	`Arrowmaster`	`i think /focus target works`
`21:04.32`	`nevcairiel`	`if you want your current target`
`21:04.35`	`nevcairiel`	`you can just do /focus`
`21:04.37`	`nevcairiel`	`without anything`
`21:04.54`	`Arrowmaster`	`that will clear your focus if you dont have a target though`
`21:04.57`	`Daemona`	`nevcairiel beat me by a second ;)`
`21:05.04`	`Arrowmaster`	`not sure what /focus target does in that case`
`21:05.12`	`Gnarfoz`	`is it just me or does this PNG have serious JPG artifacts? http://github.com/images/modules/posts/rss.png?76f2d1af559c865038718e64500686f2543aa5a4`
`21:05.36`	`nevcairiel`	`clears it too, Arrowmaster`
`21:05.48`	`nevcairiel`	`looks fine here, Gnarfoz`
`21:05.58`	`Arrowmaster`	`fine, /focus [target=target,exists]`
`21:06.05`	`Gnarfoz`	`uhm, around the edges of the white curves? oO`
`21:06.19`	`nevcairiel`	`I dont see artifacts`
`21:06.20`	`Dashkal`	`Gnarfoz: I see them`
`21:06.21`	`Gnarfoz`	`yeah, jpeg artifacts :>`
`21:06.25`	`Ellipsis`	`Gnarfoz: yes that was clearly jpg at one point`
`21:06.31`	`Gnarfoz`	`I don't wanna know WHY :X`
`21:06.38`	`Ellipsis`	`no, you probably don't`
`21:06.38`	`Obelixprime`	`if a method is protected, it means it can't be executed while in combat right?`
`21:06.42`	`Arrowmaster`	`they should remake it as svg`
`21:06.44`	`Gnarfoz`	`and github uses this in that size on their page, which is even more stupid :D`
`21:06.49`	`Ellipsis`	`Obelixprime: that means addons can't execute it at all`
`21:07.06`	`Gnarfoz`	`Arrowmaster: that exists already, I'd wager :D`
`21:07.11`	`Ellipsis`	`Obelixprime: your macro can't be done, get over it :P`
`21:07.19`	`Obelixprime`	`but if i put it in a macro with a /script that line won't be executed`
`21:07.22`	`Obelixprime`	`lol`
`21:07.27`	`Obelixprime`	`hmmmk`
`21:08.28`	`AckisWork`	`what flowers to get my "future mother-in-law" as my gf calls her?`
`21:09.15`	`Stanzilla`	`http://www.staneck.de/upload/files/452e42-WoWScrnShot_090508_230816.jpg hi!`
`21:09.24`	`Ellipsis`	`I'd hit it.`
`21:09.29`	`Obelixprime`	`omg faith!`
`21:09.32`	`Obelixprime`	`faith is so cool`
`21:09.34`	`nevcairiel`	`definately looks better then T6`
`21:09.35`	`Obelixprime`	`i wish i did more naxx :(`
`21:09.42`	`nevcairiel`	`priest T6 was a shadow set`
`21:09.43`	`Stanzilla`	`:D`
`21:09.51`	`Arrowmaster`	`except the stupid wing sprites`
`21:10.06`	`Arrowmaster`	`that look retarded from behind`
`21:10.06`	`AckisWork`	`Stanzilla: zomg! (only have 5/8 :( )`
`21:10.11`	`Obelixprime`	`glad i'm shadow`
`21:10.16`	`Stanzilla`	`same`
`21:10.22`	`Stanzilla`	`but [22:43:49] <@nevcairiel> thats super-users that actually know what a library is`
`21:10.24`	`Stanzilla`	`eh`
`21:10.26`	`Stanzilla`	`wtf`
`21:10.29`	`Stanzilla`	`http://www.staneck.de/upload/files/8f016b-WoWScrnShot_090508_230941.jpg`
`21:10.30`	`Stanzilla`	`that`
`21:10.31`	`nevcairiel`	`~lart Stanzilla`
`21:10.31`	`purl`	`wallops Stanzilla with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing. It won't take long`
`21:10.32`	`AckisWork`	`I don't have robes/helm/shoulders/some others`
`21:10.33`	`Stanzilla`	`doesnt look too bad`
`21:10.36`	`Ellipsis`	`~fail Stanzilla`
`21:10.37`	`purl`	`Stanzilla, you Fail!`
`21:10.39`	`Obelixprime`	`robes of faltered light dropped wednesday... went to the only holypriest in the raid /grumble`
`21:10.41`	`Stanzilla`	`yes yes!`
`21:11.07`	`Ellipsis`	`Stanzilla: your staff looks silly though :P`
`21:11.13`	`Stanzilla`	`^^`
`21:11.35`	`AckisWork`	`that staff was the best until sunwell IMO`
`21:11.38`	`Ellipsis`	`Dashkal: offline msn is supported in the most recent carrier release (2.5.0)`
`21:11.45`	`Ellipsis`	`sorry it took me so long to find a changelog`
`21:11.58`	`Stanzilla`	`AckisWork: I heard people say that the bloodboil one was better because of teh spirit`
`21:11.59`	`Dashkal`	`Ellipsis: erm? ooo, thank you :p`
`21:12.05`	`Gnarfoz`	`since when do the MSN servers support offline messages? oO`
`21:12.06`	`Dashkal`	`I was going to hunt that down over lunch`
`21:12.14`	`Ellipsis`	`Gnarfoz: since like...4 years ago?`
`21:12.20`	`Dashkal`	`That is getting downloaded over lunch now :p bye bye kopete`
`21:12.26`	`Ellipsis`	`grats :D`
`21:12.32`	`CIA-51`	`03nevcairiel * r81423 10Bartender4/Bartender4.lua:`
`21:12.32`	`Gnarfoz`	`cba to use "MSN messenger", so maybe I didn't notice because of that :p`
`21:12.34`	`CIA-51`	`Bartender4: merge GitHub changes`
`21:12.36`	`CIA-51`	`- don't require LDB to be present`
`21:12.55`	`Ellipsis`	`Gnarfoz: yeah, for whatever reason 3rd party clients had a heck of a time getting it implemented`
`21:12.58`	`Ellipsis`	`and/or didn't care`
`21:13.02`	Funkeh`	`lol I'm using steam more these days from I'm Oo`
`21:13.06`	`Gnarfoz`	`trillian =[`
`21:13.07`	`AckisWork`	`Stanzilla: pre-spirit patch: archi one had more mp5/more healing, post-spirit change, archi had more healing, and mp5 wasn't an issue anymore so I made the choice more healing > a minor mp5 upgrade`
`21:13.09`	Funkeh`	`<3 steam overlay`
`21:13.11`	`Dashkal`	`What annoys me is that the service has supported it forever, but only now is offline support coming in the 3rd party clients`
`21:13.22`	`Dashkal`	`and my C++ skills suck far too much to submit a patch :(`
`21:13.29`	`Stanzilla`	`AckisWork: ah, ok :)`
`21:13.32`	Funkeh`	`wish it would work with non steam games`
`21:13.39`	`Ellipsis`	Funkeh`: xfire moar? :P
`21:13.46`	`AckisWork`	`Stanzilla: the one I have now is the one off of KJ :D`
`21:13.48`	Funkeh`	`xfire can suck my nuts`
`21:13.52`	`Ellipsis`	`it can?`
`21:13.54`	`Ellipsis`	`new feature?`
`21:13.55`	`Dashkal`	Funkeh`: Did they remove support? Cause I've had the steam overlay working with wow before
`21:13.58`	`Arrowmaster`	`msn has always had shitty 3rd party support`
`21:14.04`	`Stanzilla`	`AckisWork: I know! but I'm shadow so I'm not jealous :P`
`21:14.09`	`AckisWork`	`lol`
`21:14.13`	`Ellipsis`	`Arrowmaster: probably because it's a shitty protocol ;D`
`21:14.17`	`Arrowmaster`	Funkeh`: you have to add the game to steam as a non steam game i think
`21:14.23`	`Arrowmaster`	`Ellipsis: it is`
`21:14.36`	`Arrowmaster`	`its also the only major IM that could never switch to xmpp`
`21:14.40`	`Stanzilla`	`http://www.staneck.de/upload/files/2c90cc-WoWScrnShot_090508_231357.jpg < shadow`
`21:14.43`	`Stanzilla`	`indeed looks a bit crappy`
`21:14.53`	`Gnarfoz`	`google should just buy AIM and MSN from AOL and MS and convert them all to XMPP :X`
`21:14.53`	Funkeh`	`Arrowmaster, I tried that with AoE2 and it didn't work (the overlay)`
`21:14.56`	Funkeh`	`not sure about wow`
`21:15.18`	`Arrowmaster`	`Gnarfoz: AOL was playing around with xmpp for AIM and ICQ`
`21:15.31`	`Gnarfoz`	`there's just AIM :X`
`21:15.39`	`Gnarfoz`	`ICQ is just a frontend for AIM these days ^^`
`21:16.37`	`Gnarfoz`	`anyway, I was an ICQ evangelist back in the day, thus my contact list is 90% icq users :X`
`21:16.47`	`Arrowmaster`	`and like i said, MSN is the only major IM that could never switch to xmpp, the rest could though`
`21:16.52`	`Gnarfoz`	`it was the only one with offline msg support back in the day! :D`
`21:16.57`	Funkeh`	`I wouldn't mind steam ahving a few more I'm features`
`21:17.00`	Funkeh`	`then byebye msn`
`21:17.01`	`Dashkal`	`I used to love it, but I ran out of users. I just leave the light on in case someone from high school looks me up`
`21:17.04`	`Gnarfoz`	`why couldn't it? oO`
`21:17.21`	`Arrowmaster`	`because of how its designed.......`
`21:17.34`	`AckisWork`	Funkeh`: did you ever play AoC?
`21:17.54`	Funkeh`	`conan or conquerors`
`21:17.57`	`Ellipsis`	`I used to use ICQ...then I realized I had no friends on it and over time forgot my password and stopped connecting ot it`
`21:18.07`	`AckisWork`	`conan`
`21:18.09`	`Ellipsis`	`to*`
`21:18.10`	Funkeh`	`no`
`21:18.10`	`Gnarfoz`	`Arrowmaster: obviously, a change of the protocol in use would require sweeping changes. don't you think those would sweep far enough to "make it happen" (tm)`
`21:18.22`	`Arrowmaster`	`Gnarfoz: you need control of the domain to setup xmpp, you can create a windows live account with any email address`
`21:18.46`	`Arrowmaster`	`thus it will never happen`
`21:18.49`	`Arrowmaster`	`because its impossible`
`21:19.03`	`Gnarfoz`	`wouldn't it suit them to force people to live.com email addresses? :p`
`21:19.33`	`Arrowmaster`	`maybe but how exactly are they going to pull that off`
`21:19.42`	`Arrowmaster`	`without making people lose contacts`
`21:20.00`	`Gnarfoz`	`hm`
`21:21.11`	`Ellipsis`	`you could automatically create email addresses for them based on their old addresses`
`21:21.11`	`*** join/#wowace Shadowed (n=outlaw@12.157.177.162)`
`21:21.23`	`Ellipsis`	`username-domain-com@live.com`
`21:21.25`	`Ellipsis`	`that'd suck`
`21:21.50`	`Arrowmaster`	`exactly`
`21:21.55`	`Arrowmaster`	`nobody would want to use that`
`21:22.08`	`Ellipsis`	`even more reason they'd create brand new live accounts`
`21:22.22`	`Ellipsis`	`more valid email addresses to sell to spammers`
`21:22.24`	`Ellipsis`	`everyone wins!`
`21:22.27`	`Gnarfoz`	`as long as contacts are carried over, what'd I care if I have a really crappy email address`
`21:22.37`	`Gnarfoz`	`it's not like anyone uses those for actual email :x`
`21:22.44`	`Arrowmaster`	`i know somebody that uses a gmail address as a live account`
`21:22.53`	`Ellipsis`	`I do for both of mine`
`21:23.06`	`Gnarfoz`	`nah, not gmail`
`21:23.08`	`Gnarfoz`	`live.com :p`
`21:23.17`	`Arrowmaster`	`it would just look completely wrong if MSN tried to move the entire system over to a single domain`
`21:23.37`	`Ellipsis`	`you have a point though, the only people who use live for email are the ones who already have @live.com addresses and won't be affected by the change`
`21:23.44`	`Gnarfoz`	`well, it's certainly unlikely, but it's not technically impossible for them to do it, some way or another`
`21:24.01`	`Arrowmaster`	`Ellipsis: you can use more than live.com as email for live accounts`
`21:24.15`	`Arrowmaster`	`@msn.com and @hotmail.com`
`21:24.34`	`*** join/#wowace Elgren (n=elgren@90-227-53-153-no88.tbcn.telia.com)`
`21:24.40`	`Arrowmaster`	`its technically impossible in a user friendly way`
`21:24.52`	`Ellipsis`	`true, but they could be translated over too (I'm sure eventually ms will drop them)`
`21:25.01`	`Ellipsis`	`of course it wouldn't be user friendly`
`21:25.06`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81424 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/ (4 files in 3 dirs):`
`21:25.06`	`CIA-51`	`SimpleSelfRebuff:`
`21:25.06`	`CIA-51`	`- now saves module state,`
`21:25.06`	`CIA-51`	`- fixed DataObject module so it can be disabled.`
`21:25.07`	`Elgren`	`Ellipsis evening!`
`21:25.08`	`Ellipsis`	`the point is msn users are mostly 12 year olds who don't care`
`21:25.10`	`Ellipsis`	`:D`
`21:25.11`	`Arrowmaster`	`they will never drop hotmail`
`21:25.13`	`Ellipsis`	`heya Elgren`
`21:25.16`	`nocts\|work`	`^ LOL @ Ellipsis`
`21:25.23`	`Arrowmaster`	`actually i take that back`
`21:25.29`	`nocts\|work`	`And they do care. how can they share their web camp ohtos otharwise?`
`21:25.31`	`Arrowmaster`	`they forgot to renew hotmail.co.uk one year i think`
`21:25.44`	`Ellipsis`	`gg`
`21:25.45`	`Arrowmaster`	`and somebody else renewed it and gave it back to them`
`21:26.22`	`Ellipsis`	`seriously? no ridiculous charge?`
`21:26.32`	`Arrowmaster`	`no`
`21:26.34`	`Ellipsis`	`you could make a fortune off that`
`21:26.41`	`Arrowmaster`	`because otherwise you would get sued for domain squating`
`21:27.44`	`Gnarfoz`	`if the UK has laws for that, at least`
`21:27.49`	`Gnarfoz`	`but they're anal that way, so I guess they do`
`21:28.54`	`seracht`	`thanks ckknight your tips helped and cleared up a lot of wasted space on the screen`
`21:29.12`	`ckknight`	`I play on a laptop`
`21:29.14`	`ckknight`	`I know how it is`
`21:29.24`	`Elgren`	`ckknight has bug destinguishing to do!`
`21:29.32`	`ckknight`	`hrm?`
`21:29.41`	`Fisker-`	`Ellipsis !`
`21:29.42`	`Elgren`	`the \" remember? :D`
`21:30.13`	`ckknight`	`oh`
`21:30.16`	`ckknight`	`yea, maybe tonight`
`21:30.21`	`Elgren`	`the parser wont let me type in \\`
`21:30.22`	`seracht`	`ckknight ya, now if only I can fix my not having a desk to play on, and playing with the touchpad issue :(`
`21:30.26`	`Elgren`	`ok man cool :)`
`21:30.40`	`ckknight`	`blah`
`21:30.51`	`ckknight`	`Elgren: come up with some test cases for me and expected results`
`21:33.21`	`Elgren`	`[icon("path\to" class)] synthax error`
`21:33.33`	`Elgren`	`im trying to add class icons to my pitbull raidframes`
`21:33.42`	`Elgren`	`rather`
`21:33.53`	`Elgren`	`[icon("path\to\" class)] synthax error`
`21:34.09`	`Elgren`	`[icon("path\to\druid.tga")] works fine`
`21:35.40`	`*** join/#wowace Corgan (n=Corgan@cpe-66-91-6-220.hawaii.res.rr.com)`
`21:35.41`	`CIA-51`	`03ackis 07NewDB * r81425 10AckisRecipeList/AckisRecipeList/ (AckisRecipeList.lua CHANGELOG.txt): (log message trimmed)`
`21:35.41`	`CIA-51`	`AckisRecipeList:`
`21:35.41`	`CIA-51`	`- Search functionality should work with new database stuff`
`21:35.42`	`CIA-51`	`- Will now update internal database of reputations when you learn one (ie: it`
`21:35.43`	`CIA-51`	`displayed reps in red if you didn't have the required rep level), this will`
`21:35.45`	`CIA-51`	`handle the odd case of doing a scan, increasing rep, doing another scan.`
`21:35.47`	`CIA-51`	`- What event is fired when you learn/unlearn a tradeskill?`
`21:42.25`	`Daemona`	`beta realms down? i am hanging at handshaking`
`21:43.02`	`Gnarfoz`	`Daemona: patching/maintenance`
`21:43.11`	`Gnarfoz`	`since 10:30 PDT`
`21:43.29`	`NeoTron`	`do the dragons in KJ do any damage or do they jsut heal/buff/shield?`
`21:43.40`	`Daemona`	`the latter`
`21:43.53`	`Daemona`	`regen breath, haste breath, shield`
`21:44.01`	`NeoTron`	`figured. I assume then you use classes that normally would be of little use (low dps, tanks, maybe a healer?)`
`21:44.18`	`NeoTron`	`little use meaning little DPS use`
`21:44.19`	`Daemona`	`we use our prot MT in his MS gear ;)`
`21:44.44`	`NeoTron`	`3-tank setup? prot pally, feral druid in dps gear, prot warrior in ms gear?`
`21:44.54`	`AckisWork`	`why 3 tanks?`
`21:44.59`	`Daemona`	`and once more than one dragon is available a mage or hunter takes the 2nd`
`21:45.00`	`*** join/#wowace g3gg0 (n=g3gg0@ppp-88-217-62-211.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`21:45.04`	`NeoTron`	`AckisWork: initial pull`
`21:45.10`	`NeoTron`	`?`
`21:45.14`	`AckisWork`	`pally tank/prot war to tank the spawns, hunter/lock tanks KJ`
`21:45.25`	`Daemona`	`you need to get down the 3 mobs before`
`21:45.27`	`AckisWork`	`have a dps warrior/rogue evasion tank the initial pull`
`21:45.28`	`NeoTron`	`don't you want to spread out the 3 mobs in phase 1?`
`21:45.50`	`Daemona`	`we usually just stunlock the one the MT in MS gear is taking`
`21:45.56`	`Daemona`	`2nd to the feral`
`21:46.02`	`Daemona`	`3rd to the prot pala`
`21:46.09`	`AckisWork`	`MT is MS gear = wasted raid spot`
`21:46.19`	`NeoTron`	`AckisWork: if he's the dragon, not so much?`
`21:46.20`	`Daemona`	`he is doing the dragons ;)`
`21:46.28`	`Daemona`	`and 1 of 2 battle shouts`
`21:46.28`	`Daemona`	`;)`
`21:47.00`	`Daemona`	`i did mention he respecs, didnt i?`
`21:47.07`	`NeoTron`	`the lock tank- full dps gear or tnak geaR? I seemed to take a lot of damage but then again we're not exactly solidly ni good shape :P`
`21:47.20`	`Daemona`	`lock tank?`
`21:47.22`	`Daemona`	`kil jaeden?`
`21:47.31`	`NeoTron`	`ranged tanking the mind flay thnig`
`21:47.32`	`Daemona`	`we just have a feral do that`
`21:47.35`	*** join/#wowace Cyrez` (i=Cyrez@c-71-202-134-9.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
`21:47.48`	`NeoTron`	`I heard it's easier with a ranged tank for whatever reason? like if the tank gets the flame debuff?`
`21:47.59`	`Daemona`	`who cares?`
`21:48.02`	`NeoTron`	`dps?`
`21:48.16`	`Daemona`	`KJ isnt about DPS`
`21:48.20`	`Daemona`	`its about not being retarded`
`21:48.20`	`NeoTron`	`sure it is`
`21:48.30`	`NeoTron`	`there's a quite a bit of dps required`
`21:48.36`	`Daemona`	`once you reach KJ, your gear warrants the dps required`
`21:48.45`	`Daemona`	`we NEVER EVER had dps problems on KJ`
`21:48.48`	`Daemona`	`unless dps died`
`21:49.10`	`Daemona`	`people dying pre-85% -> call wipe`
`21:49.21`	`Daemona`	`people dying pre-60% yell at them and combat rezz`
`21:49.41`	`*** join/#wowace dracula (i=dracula@dhcp-077-251-095-072.chello.nl)`
`21:49.43`	`Daemona`	`people being retarded -> replace`
`21:49.44`	`NeoTron`	`I'd say pre-85 "call wipe" if you're good`
`21:49.57`	`NeoTron`	`it's valid to continue past 85% before you got phase 1/2 solidly down`
`21:50.13`	`Daemona`	`yeah sure, but you wont make the 2nd dragon with dead dps`
`21:50.32`	`NeoTron`	`sure`
`21:50.49`	`NeoTron`	`but a lot of post 85% is getting the transition effects dow`
`21:51.09`	`NeoTron`	`likely we won't go with full dps consumables unless ppl want to unless we have a dps issue in phase 3`
`21:51.14`	`*** join/#wowace Gaurong (n=chatzill@88-104-42-159.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`21:51.16`	`NeoTron`	`s/unless/until/`
`21:51.32`	`NeoTron`	`fail`
`21:51.38`	`NeoTron`	`~fail NeoTron`
`21:51.39`	`purl`	`NeoTron: FAIL!`
`21:51.48`	`Kolie`	`the CC has installed its first addon under mac ( well, it did this 2 months ago but no one remembers ). 1337 target`
`21:52.43`	`*** join/#wowace g3gg0 (n=g3gg0@ppp-88-217-95-144.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`21:54.05`	`*** join/#wowace Kaelten (n=kaelten@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/WoWIFA/CurseStaff/kaelten)`
`21:54.05`	`*** mode/#wowace [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ`
`21:55.45`	*** join/#wowace Cyrez` (i=Cyrez@c-71-202-134-9.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
`21:59.33`	`CIA-51`	`03adirelle 07Ace3 * r81426 10SimpleSelfRebuff/SimpleSelfRebuff/ (3 files in 2 dirs):`
`21:59.39`	`CIA-51`	`SimpleSelfRebuff:`
`21:59.43`	`CIA-51`	`- added an option to disable mousewheel binding,`
`21:59.47`	`CIA-51`	`- added an option to set up keybinding directly in the option frame,`
`21:59.53`	`CIA-51`	`- removed bindings.xml.`
`22:01.51`	`*** join/#wowace Shirik (n=nospam@conspiracy/developer/Shirik)`
`22:01.51`	`*** mode/#wowace [+v Shirik] by ChanServ`
`22:02.37`	`Primer`	`So here I am, reading about arena again`
`22:02.59`	`Primer`	`and on the lock/druid page of arenajunkies, it reads (for the lock): Once you reach 12.5k hp and 430+ resilience, start to gem for spell damage.`
`22:03.36`	`Primer`	`which makes me wonder if perhaps I put too much effort into stam/resil, since I'm at 14.1k/479`
`22:06.31`	`Primer`	`Thoughts?`
`22:07.24`	`*** join/#wowace Lopen (n=Lopen@c-68-60-55-138.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)`
`22:07.46`	`NeoTron`	`how many healers for KJ btw?`
`22:10.55`	`AckisWork`	`7 I think we ran with, maybe 8? I can't remember`
`22:12.54`	`*** join/#wowace Megalon (n=starfox@d86-32-5-97.cust.tele2.at)`
`22:13.58`	`NeoTron`	`seems like a lot of random unavoidable damage`
`22:14.03`	`NeoTron`	`as well as random very avoidable damage`
`22:21.29`	*** join/#wowace Cyrez` (i=Cyrez@c-71-202-134-9.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
`22:25.56`	`Dashkal`	`cuteness overload: http://www.gigglesugar.com/1908204`
`22:27.38`	`evl`	`nevcairiel: does the wotlk version work in TBC at all?`
`22:28.30`	`NeoTron`	`man what a domain. gigglesugar`
`22:28.48`	`Dashkal`	`I was leerly of clicking that at first thanks to that. <3 noscript`
`22:28.52`	`*** join/#wowace \|Yssaril\| (n=Yssaril@adsl-99-145-232-253.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)`
`22:29.00`	`fewyn`	`http://www.applegeeks.com/lite/`
`22:30.00`	`*** join/#wowace Groktar (n=Groktar_@76-236-38-194.lightspeed.frsnca.sbcglobal.net)`
`22:30.03`	`Groktar`	`licks you`
`22:30.33`	`fewyn`	`(18:30:32) no such nickname: (you)`
`22:30.46`	`smcn`	`pokes you in the eye`
`22:32.27`	`Kaelten`	`http://www.wowace.test:8080/projects/whats-in-a-project/tickets/2-its-broke/`
`22:32.30`	`Groktar`	`ooh, patch!`
`22:32.38`	`Groktar`	`downloads`
`22:32.50`	`Kaelten`	`bah`
`22:32.54`	`Kaelten`	`wrong link`
`22:32.55`	`Kaelten`	`http://images.gammatester.com/pics/df75d57e3a3fc38c567d806be88374fd.png`
`22:34.08`	`AckisWork`	`keylogger!`
`22:34.22`	`Dashkal`	`no no no, the first link is fine. may I have an ssh tunnel so I can use that url? :p`
`22:34.26`	`Stanzilla`	`I won't scream "the footer" again, soz :(`
`22:34.27`	`Megalon`	`keylocker!`
`22:35.33`	`fewyn`	`turns the blizzard downloader into a torrent`
`22:37.11`	`fewyn`	`WoWTorrentEx.exe > *`
`22:37.30`	`*** join/#wowace Hjalte (n=chatzill@62.242.38.50)`
`22:39.22`	`*** join/#wowace Esine (i=dbguy@tohveli.net)`
`22:40.20`	`*** join/#wowace Nargiddley (n=narg@203-97-236-74.cable.telstraclear.net)`
`22:40.38`	`Fisker-`	`Kaelten it's a bag`
`22:40.45`	`Kaelten`	`?`
`22:41.24`	`sylvanaar`	`does this patch fix shift-click`
`22:41.35`	`fewyn`	`i hope`
`22:41.44`	`fewyn`	`because that was annoying not having it`
`22:41.52`	`fewyn`	`servers are not up yet so no idea`
`22:41.56`	`sylvanaar`	`i need to know if i should take it back out of prat or not`
`22:42.25`	`fewyn`	`well someone can tell you when the servers come up`
`22:42.40`	`Fisker-`	`tsk`
`22:43.35`	`*** join/#wowace Blime (n=Blime@c-24-125-170-246.hsd1.va.comcast.net)`
`22:48.00`	`*** join/#wowace Worf (n=worf@84-119-53-183.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)`
`22:48.52`	`Kolie`	`yay macs installing addons`
`22:49.20`	`Kolie`	`lol but it broke windows`
`22:50.56`	`Belazor`	`fail XD`
`22:51.35`	`Belazor`	`I dunno about 2.0.0.1 but 2.0.0.0 didn't delete files upon Uninstall, and it didn't correctly refresh the list of addons and when they were updated, btw :p`
`22:51.57`	`*** join/#wowace Kingroms (i=WinNT@213.21.83.39)`
`22:53.08`	`*** join/#wowace sylvaan (n=sylvanaa@unaffiliated/sylvanaar)`
`22:53.31`	`Blime`	`wow addons didn't work in mac?`
`22:55.04`	`Kolie`	`Belazor, there is no known issue with either`
`22:55.25`	`Kolie`	`With find an addon, you update it hitting getlist.`
`22:55.43`	`Kolie`	`As far as uninstalling files, did you import an existing set of addons into the client?`
`22:55.53`	`Kolie`	`Because it only will remove files the client itself installs.`
`22:55.57`	`Kolie`	`Not preexisting files.`
`22:56.45`	`Belazor`	`1. well my uac isn't on, and my user has ownership of the WoW folder. 2. it didnt detect omnicc being updated even if I hit refresh. 3. No I didn't import existing, I undid that after I misunderstood what the "detect current addons" button did :p`
`22:56.53`	`fewyn`	`uac is EVIL`
`22:57.14`	`Vulcanus`	`no, uac is awesome, Im gonna run linux mode on my new laptop`
`22:57.32`	`Kolie`	`What view did it not see as being updated?`
`22:57.43`	`Kolie`	`The installed addons view, or find an addon.`
`22:57.57`	`Vulcanus`	`installed`
`22:58.00`	`Vulcanus`	`lemme check find`
`22:58.10`	`Kolie`	`Last Update is the last update you have personally`
`22:58.34`	`Vulcanus`	`but it wasnt flagged as updated by any change in colour either`
`22:58.50`	`Vulcanus`	`"An unknown error occurred contacting the server."`
`22:58.51`	`Kolie`	`Then it wasnt updated, update all addons makes it check right now.`
`22:58.55`	`Vulcanus`	`when logging in :p`
`22:59.01`	`Kolie`	`When was this?`
`22:59.05`	`Vulcanus`	`just now`
`22:59.11`	`Vulcanus`	`hitting login manually works`
`22:59.17`	`Vulcanus`	`just the autologin no wurk`
`22:59.21`	`Kolie`	`Ok.`
`22:59.27`	`Kolie`	`Ive got sporadic reports of that.`
`22:59.30`	`Kolie`	`Ill look at it now.`
`23:00.41`	`Kolie`	`heh the code to auto login presses the login button :)(`
`23:01.10`	`Vulcanus`	`;p`
`23:01.59`	`Vulcanus`	`Anyways, as for the last update thing: In the find addons list, Auctioneer lists as updated on 11th Aug. My Last Updated is 27th July, and there's no indication of it being out of date`
`23:02.53`	`Kolie`	`What version was this vulcanas.`
`23:02.59`	`Kolie`	`The`
`23:03.01`	`Kolie`	`login button.`
`23:03.15`	`Kolie`	`Ok.`
`23:03.17`	`Vulcanus`	`even the latest, 2.0.0.2 which it just autoupdated to`
`23:03.19`	`Kolie`	`Find an Addon can show dates`
`23:03.25`	`Kolie`	`that are later then nstalled addons.`
`23:03.54`	`Kolie`	`And change to the project, results in a new date in that panel, not just file releases.`
`23:03.59`	`Kolie`	`s/and/any`
`23:04.22`	`Kolie`	`If you go to the installed addons`
`23:04.25`	`Kolie`	`and click auctioneer`
`23:04.29`	`Kolie`	`it will show you in the button`
`23:04.32`	`Kolie`	`what is really the latest.`
`23:04.48`	`Kolie`	`( or if you install the addon )`
`23:05.17`	`*** part/#wowace CrazyBenny (n=s_m@212.11.123.10)`
`23:05.24`	`*** join/#wowace Belazor (n=Vulcanus@212251189028.customer.cdi.no)`
`23:05.41`	`Belazor`	`if you replied to that I didnt get it, /spit ISP`
`23:06.11`	`Kolie`	`How do you know omicc isnt updated.`
`23:07.10`	`Kolie`	`2.0.0.3 coming out lol.`
`23:07.34`	`Groktar`	`what's 2.0.0.3?`
`23:08.21`	`Kolie`	`A fix to 2.0.0.2`
`23:08.39`	`Kolie`	`Addon installation is fucked under windows, 2.0.0.3 is an emergency fix.`
`23:08.52`	`Kolie`	`( it wont screw up your files )`
`23:08.54`	`Kolie`	`it just wont work.`
`23:09.09`	`Zhinjio`	`Good afternoon, folks.`
`23:09.22`	`Kolie`	`It also has the changes I made just now while testing login issues.`
`23:10.38`	`*** join/#wowace Belazor (n=Vulcanus@212251189028.customer.cdi.no)`
`23:10.50`	`Belazor`	`sighs`
`23:11.03`	`fewyn`	`~lart Belazor`
`23:11.03`	`purl`	`whips out a shotgun, trudges over to Belazor, and goes postal`
`23:11.51`	`nocts\|work`	`Postal 2 was an awesome game.`
`23:12.01`	`nocts\|work`	`~larp Zhinjio`
`23:12.07`	`nocts\|work`	`No larp? Aw.`
`23:12.12`	`Ellipsis`	`make one`
`23:12.34`	`nocts\|work`	`./configure --enable-larp-trigger && make && sudo make install`
`23:12.37`	`nocts\|work`	`Nothing.`
`23:12.49`	`Ellipsis`	`~nocts`
`23:12.52`	`liquidzoo`	`lol`
`23:12.53`	`Ellipsis`	`purl, nocts is a noob`
`23:12.54`	`purl`	`Ellipsis: okay`
`23:12.57`	`Zhinjio`	`hugs Ellipsis`
`23:13.00`	`Aiiane`	`btw Kolie`
`23:13.05`	`Ellipsis`	`bah, spam protection :P`
`23:13.06`	`Belazor`	`real OSes don't need compiling to add features, we have wizards :D`
`23:13.07`	`Ellipsis`	`~nocts`
`23:13.07`	`purl`	`rumour has it, nocts is a noob`
`23:13.14`	`Ellipsis`	`see how easy that is? :)`
`23:13.17`	`Aiiane`	`please tell whoever is writing CurseProfiler for WAR to please actually use the version field in the .mod file :P`
`23:13.18`	`nocts\|work`	`:O`
`23:13.32`	`Ellipsis`	`licks Zhinjio`
`23:13.44`	`ckknight`	`Aiiane: hrm, does it really matter?`
`23:13.45`	`nocts\|work`	`purl, nocts is nocts.`
`23:13.46`	`purl`	`...but nocts is already something else...`
`23:13.51`	`Ellipsis`	`:>`
`23:13.51`	`nocts\|work`	`purl, delete nocts.`
`23:13.51`	`purl`	`ACTION glares at nocts. and then takes every step necessary to completely delete nocts. and destroy any and all evidence that nocts. ever existed`
`23:14.02`	`Aiiane`	`ckknight: well, it's annoying to tell when it's actually updated or not when I have it disabled because it was bugging out :P`
`23:14.06`	`nocts\|work`	`purl, Hot tea. Grey, earl.`
`23:14.13`	`Ellipsis`	`lol`
`23:14.18`	`Aiiane`	`whereas the version field shows up in the mods window even if its disabled`
`23:14.19`	`*** join/#wowace Gandoch (n=DigitaLu@adsl-242-94-155.gsp.bellsouth.net)`
`23:14.38`	`Ellipsis`	`purl, no, nocts is still a noob`
`23:14.39`	`purl`	`okay, Ellipsis`
`23:15.14`	`nocts\|work`	`purl, Ellipsis is using you for your power. Assimilate her. Resistance is futile.`
`23:15.14`	`purl`	`...but ellipsis is already something else...`
`23:15.23`	`Aiiane`	`~ellipsis`
`23:15.24`	`purl`	`Please insert $1.00 to try again.`
`23:15.27`	`nocts\|work`	`LOL`
`23:15.28`	`Ellipsis`	`:d`
`23:15.30`	`nocts\|work`	`That works so well`
`23:15.36`	`nocts\|work`	`She's cheap`
`23:15.39`	`Ellipsis`	`~factinfo ellipsis`
`23:15.39`	`purl`	`ellipsis -- created by Cryect <i=Cryect@pool-71-182-161-158.pitbpa.east.verizon.net> at Fri Nov 30 02:20:33 2007 (280 days); last modified 6d 11h 3m ago by Fisker-!i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk; it has been requested 7 times, last by Aiiane, 15s ago.`
`23:15.42`	`Groktar`	`anyone else patched their beta today? getting unable to validate game version`
`23:15.49`	`nocts\|work`	`purl, delete nocts`
`23:15.50`	`purl`	`ACTION glares at nocts and then takes every step necessary to completely delete nocts and destroy any and all evidence that nocts ever existed`
`23:15.53`	`Ellipsis`	`Fisker- I'mma get you`
`23:15.54`	`nocts\|work`	`purl, ignore ellipsis`
`23:15.55`	`purl`	`ACTION sticks her fingers in her ears. "La, la, la! I can't hear you, ellipsis!"`
`23:16.02`	`Aiiane`	`purl, forget nocts`
`23:16.02`	`purl`	`Aiiane: i forgot nocts`
`23:16.11`	`Groktar`	`nm`
`23:16.39`	`nocts\|work`	`That's a clever bot.`
`23:16.42`	`nocts\|work`	`I still want my Ollie bot.`
`23:16.48`	`*** join/#wowace NeoRevan (n=Vulcanus@212251189028.customer.cdi.no)`
`23:16.48`	`Ellipsis`	`heh`
`23:16.54`	`nocts\|work`	`Ellipsis, that's our weekend project. Put a bot on sajuuk.org`
`23:17.00`	`Ellipsis`	`k`
`23:17.36`	`nocts\|work`	`Aiiane: Who are you?`
`23:17.47`	`nocts\|work`	`You're always so quiet until you know something. And then you walk in like the hand of fucking Neo`
`23:17.48`	`Aiiane`	`im not entirely sure`
`23:17.55`	`Aiiane`	`who am I?`
`23:18.01`	`Ellipsis`	`purl, who is Aiiane?`
`23:18.03`	`purl`	`I think you lost me on that one, Ellipsis`
`23:18.10`	`Ellipsis`	`wow, even purl doesn't know~`
`23:19.41`	`Ellipsis`	`purl, no, ellipsis is going to eat Fisker- alive`
`23:19.41`	`purl`	`okay, Ellipsis`
`23:19.46`	`Ellipsis`	`=]`
`23:22.16`	`*** join/#wowace Vegeta]BT[ (n=Vegeta-G@koln-4d0b27ce.pool.mediaWays.net)`
`23:23.02`	`nocts\|work`	`purl, ellipsis wants to have cheesy tacos tonight.`
`23:23.13`	`Ellipsis`	`okay, nocts\|work`
`23:23.38`	`Ellipsis`	`actually that does sound kinda good`
`23:24.27`	`Primer`	`So what event should I look for if I'm looking to write a pitbull plugin to swap my profile when I zone into different instances/bgs`
`23:25.12`	`Gnarfoz`	`ZONE_CHANGED & ZONE_CHANGED_INDOORS`
`23:25.23`	`Primer`	`but not all bgs are indoors`
`23:25.29`	`Primer`	`or instances, for that matter`
`23:25.35`	`Gnarfoz`	`who said they were.`
`23:25.52`	`Gnarfoz`	`my turn: what kind of wow events and query functions would I go looking for if I want to find an addon that gives me a 2-3sec freeze each time I die in a raid? :\`
`23:26.31`	`Ellipsis`	`Primer: PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD`
`23:26.42`	`Ellipsis`	`fires every time you zone into an instance or such`
`23:27.07`	`Primer`	`perfect`
`23:27.09`	`Primer`	`thanks`
`23:27.28`	`*** part/#wowace Blime (n=Blime@c-24-125-170-246.hsd1.va.comcast.net)`
`23:27.55`	`Ellipsis`	`just remember you still need to check if they're in an instance since that fires some times you don't care about (like during login)`
`23:28.36`	`Ellipsis`	`http://www.wowwiki.com/API_IsInInstance`
`23:28.53`	`Primer`	`And a BG is considered an instance?`
`23:29.22`	*** join/#wowace Inc` (n=mgast@pool-71-170-82-178.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
`23:29.30`	`Ellipsis`	`yes, see the second return there`
`23:29.53`	`CIA-51`	`03durcyn * r81427 10Acheron/Acheron.toc: Acheron: ninja-commit LibQuickHealth into optdeps/x-embeds to fix load error`
`23:30.11`	`Dashkal`	`In case anybody missed it, the changes are now coming in on mmo-champion and wotlkwiki. main discussion in #wowuidev`
`23:30.38`	`Ellipsis`	`woot, thanks`
`23:31.04`	`*** join/#wowace \|Jelly\| (n=chatzill@66-169-186-78.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com)`
`23:32.51`	`*** join/#wowace Anaral (n=Anaral@ip68-228-143-183.hr.hr.cox.net)`
`23:36.49`	`Groktar`	`eyes Dashkal's soul hungrily`
`23:37.27`	`Dashkal`	`Groktar, I'm a Malkavian vampire. Nom away...`
`23:37.38`	`eliteevil`	`Anyone else having "game version" issues on the beta?`
`23:37.48`	`Dashkal`	`eliteevil: not yet open`
`23:39.34`	`Groktar`	`Glyph of Resonating Power - Increases the maximum targets affected by your Thunder Clap ability by 4.`
`23:39.38`	`Groktar`	`give`
`23:41.52`	`Ellipsis`	`WTB glyphs that don't suck`
`23:42.13`	`Tekkub`	`the no-reagent one for druids is kinda nice`
`23:42.22`	`Tekkub`	`but the no regents for shaman suck`
`23:43.38`	`Tekkub`	`why not make a nice expensive engy toy that "synthesizes" your reagents... takes one slot, never runs out, give engys something else to sell`
`23:43.52`	`Tekkub`	`not like regaents are a gold drain anymore anyway`
`23:44.18`	`Groktar`	`they buff shockwave? it says 75% of ap now`
`23:44.21`	`NeoTron`	`warlocks are set. we can make our eye of kilrogg fly`
`23:44.28`	`Ellipsis`	`haha`
`23:44.58`	`Megalon`	`Tekkub: or they could make the armyknife a non-engi thing, but only the jumper cable 'use' to need engi`
`23:45.15`	`Ellipsis`	`wait, what`
`23:45.23`	`Ellipsis`	`glyph of inferno increases the FIRE DAMAGE OF THE SPELL?`
`23:45.31`	`Ellipsis`	`not what we were talking about blizz, try again`
`23:45.48`	`NeoTron`	`Ellipsis: it'll do 300 damage now, what's your problem?`
`23:46.04`	`Ellipsis`	`no wai, that's too OP, they'll totally nerf it!!11~`
`23:46.05`	`NeoTron`	`seriously the warlock glyphs pretty much just suck`
`23:46.12`	`Ellipsis`	`/agree`
`23:46.28`	`Ellipsis`	`duration/mana cost of our armor spells? wtf?`
`23:46.32`	`Ellipsis`	`how about something useful`
`23:47.50`	`NeoTron`	`I esp like how there's a SB rune but none for incinerate`
`23:48.19`	`Tekkub`	`Megalon, how about a cooked item, Field Rations, that act as any reagent and stack to 200`
`23:49.07`	`Groktar`	`"whenever you take damage from or block a melee attack you cause damage equal to 20% of your block value"`
`23:49.12`	`*** join/#wowace fridgid (n=fridgid@75.76.14.158)`
`23:49.26`	`Groktar`	`weak holy shield`
`23:50.30`	`*** join/#wowace EvilJohn (n=eviljohn@ppp-70-247-141-216.dsl.austtx.swbell.net)`
`23:51.18`	`Primer`	`Sigh...what's that command to print to the console? CHAT_FRAME something`
`23:51.52`	`CIA-51`	`03StingerSoft * r81428 10LibResComm-1.0/LibResComm-1.0.lua:`
`23:51.54`	`CIA-51`	`LibResComm-1.0:`
`23:51.56`	`CIA-51`	`- added ruRU string`
`23:52.05`	`nocts\|work`	`Primer: ChatFrameX:AddMessage(stuff);`
`23:52.17`	`nocts\|work`	`X=chat frame number.`
`23:52.54`	`Primer`	`0 index?`
`23:53.26`	`Megalon`	`i think chatframes start at 1`
`23:53.47`	`Groktar`	`they took a lot of points out of the warrior prot tree`
`23:54.14`	`Ellipsis`	`NeoTron: which would you prefer, glyphs that don't suck or pandemic?`
`23:54.50`	`Groktar`	`instead of the cookie cutter 8/5/48 at 70 there will be a cookie cutter 8/5/58`
`23:56.28`	`Megalon`	`Tekkub: yea cookable reagents would be a nice little cooking perk`
`23:56.29`	`*** join/#wowace Tinyboom (n=nahh@71.80-202-153.nextgentel.com)`
`23:56.59`	`Tekkub`	`RTEs, Ready To Eat :)`
`23:57.26`	`Megalon`	`and for engi more items like the hammerpick/bladed pickaxe would be awesome, things that don't really give you an advantage but are certainly nice to have`
`23:59.28`	`Dashkal`	`bladed pickaxe? I missed something interesting...`

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