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| 00:24.41 | Gnarfoz | Parnic: scale based... what? |
| 00:25.30 | Galvin | for backdrop tilesize what are the min and max values it can handle? |
| 00:25.43 | arkanes | supporting cancelling buffs at all means rewriting your buff addon to use secure templates |
| 00:25.53 | arkanes | so I'm not surprised most of the addons have just disabled that |
| 00:28.52 | Galvin | secure template code scares me |
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| 00:45.21 | Mikk | OrionShock: yah that looks much less obnoxious |
| 00:45.48 | Mikk | OrionShock: perhaps use the little "tab" graphic that blizzard uses for some frames for the title? |
| 00:46.09 | Mikk | you know the really tiny ones that only show when you mouseover the frame |
| 00:46.49 | durcyn | OrionShock: you forgot to add LibQTip to your SOCD toc, btw |
| 00:47.29 | Parnic | Galvin: an example being that several mods will scale up buffs cast by the player. so normal buffs may be 20x20 and buffs that the player cast are 30x30 or something |
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| 01:03.53 | OrionShock | durcyn, no i didn't :) |
| 01:05.01 | OrionShock | Mikk, like the battlefield minimap |
| 01:05.05 | durcyn | OrionShock: you surely did. |
| 01:05.16 | OrionShock | durcyn, trust me, look closer |
| 01:06.18 | durcyn | OrionShock: I'm looking at it now. You've got it in the alttracking toc, but it's missing from the main addon optdeps, and thusly causes problems when the module isn't split off. |
| 01:06.59 | OrionShock | durcyn, why would you be running it when the module isn't split off ? |
| 01:07.15 | durcyn | because i've got it installed from a git clone without libraries |
| 01:08.00 | durcyn | if you're going to load the AltTracking module from that @debug@ line in the main toc, it needs QTip optdep'd, that's all there is to it |
| 01:08.02 | OrionShock | pift... |
| 01:08.37 | *** part/#wowace Slayman (~dejhap08@port-14562.pppoe.wtnet.de) |
| 01:09.34 | OrionShock | grr... so curseforge changed servers ? i take it the host keys are different too |
| 01:09.55 | OrionShock | durcyn, u can fix it and commit if you want |
| 01:10.22 | durcyn | i told you because i'm exactly that lazy. |
| 01:10.51 | Mikk | yes they changed servers |
| 01:10.55 | Mikk | and kaelten forgot to copy over the hostkeys |
| 01:10.56 | Mikk | again |
| 01:10.59 | Mikk | for the umpteenth time |
| 01:11.03 | Mikk | ~lart Kaelten |
| 01:11.03 | purl | farts in Kaelten's general direction |
| 01:11.28 | OrionShock | ~lart Kaelten |
| 01:11.28 | purl | hurls dozens of incontinent, insomniac, hungry kittens with tiny little razor-sharp claws and a wide variety of contagious intestinal parasites at Kaelten |
| 01:11.50 | Mikk | much better |
| 01:14.06 | OrionShock | durcyn, fixed |
| 01:14.28 | Groktar | accidentally an OrionShock |
| 01:14.44 | Groktar | the whole OrionShock :( |
| 01:15.25 | OrionShock | that commit also fixed a small issue (bug) in Broker2Fubar |
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| 01:29.26 | Galvin | anyone know what the max and min values are for tile size for backdrop? |
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| 02:09.19 | starlon | Anyone understand this? http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?p=307304#post307304 |
| 02:10.06 | Mikk | It's possible they don't get generated until you target or so |
| 02:10.24 | starlon | I tried that. |
| 02:10.29 | starlon | Here's the code. http://ace.pastey.net/141118 |
| 02:11.03 | starlon | Sometimes texture:GetTexture() returns blank, but I don't format the text with the portrait when that happens. |
| 02:11.36 | starlon | Maybe it has something to do with caching? |
| 02:13.50 | Galvin | when using SetHorizonTile and SetVertTile, what happens if I set both to true, is it possible to tile in both directions? |
| 02:17.38 | OrionShock | how bout this look : http://i53.tinypic.com/qz3ez9.png << Mikk ? |
| 02:19.42 | starlon | The new 3d model API looks pretty cool. |
| 02:19.48 | starlon | Found that earlier. |
| 02:20.05 | starlon | You can zoom the picture. |
| 02:20.15 | starlon | So you could animate it. |
| 02:20.26 | Mikk | OrionShock: still not seeing the point of permanently taking up screen estate with ego =) |
| 02:20.52 | Galvin | found out setting tile on both to true creates a blank texture gotta wonder why blzzard just didn't make on function instead for both. |
| 02:21.21 | Galvin | oh wait, it didn't. looking at the wrong frame. |
| 02:21.54 | OrionShock | Mikk, it has less to do with ego and screen estate and more to do with that these buttons dynamically change the underlying macro when your doing randoms.l |
| 02:22.09 | OrionShock | so that it always points at the tank, cuz he aint' always party1 |
| 02:22.09 | Mikk | i meant displaying the name |
| 02:22.18 | Mikk | not the buttons =) |
| 02:22.20 | starlon | You can span over several cells by focusing the camera in several places. Blow up the model so to speek, and have the words wrap around it. |
| 02:22.27 | OrionShock | oh, thats just something to click on to move the frame |
| 02:22.40 | OrionShock | and to show you it's there when your not in group |
| 02:23.52 | starlon | Hell, you could make a movie. |
| 02:23.54 | Mikk | personal preference i guess - i prefer the little tab that appears when you hover for a bit |
| 02:24.15 | Mikk | and nothing at all to show if i'm not grouped |
| 02:24.16 | OrionShock | >.> i don't know how to code that... |
| 02:24.27 | starlon | hmm maybe |
| 02:25.12 | starlon | I don't know if you can manipulate the model. Doubt it. |
| 02:25.58 | starlon | But you can animate it a bit :) |
| 02:26.56 | starlon | Have it zoom in from far away. Have it zoom in from filling the tooltip to filling one cell. |
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| 02:28.38 | starlon | Have it zoom-in in a spiral. |
| 02:29.02 | starlon | I have no idea how you would do that though. :) |
| 02:29.49 | starlon | The spiral. I know how to do the other stuff. |
| 02:30.09 | starlon | You guys don't like me huh |
| 02:31.25 | Torhal | ? |
| 02:31.33 | Torhal | This is IRC, not a captive audience. :P |
| 02:31.42 | Torhal | And with that, to sleep I go. |
| 02:32.33 | starlon | Well, I interrupted people. |
| 02:32.38 | starlon | Wasn't intentional |
| 02:32.48 | starlon | but just got to typing |
| 02:33.44 | starlon | I guess Torhal, when you type something here, you're likely to stir up some chatter. Am I right? Of course I am. |
| 02:36.51 | OrionShock | starlon, i was rather enjoying your monologue |
| 02:36.53 | OrionShock | :) |
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| 02:39.20 | Torhal | starlon: All I was saying was that not getting a response doesn't mean people don't like you - it means this is IRC and they're probably not in this window at the moment or have nothing to add for whatever reason. |
| 02:39.26 | Torhal | And now I'm actually going to bed. |
| 02:39.26 | Galvin | i cant think of a reason why tiling looks good on a statusbar, Im trying it now and makes any texture ugly as sinb. |
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| 03:26.59 | OrionShock | have i told anyone lately how much i hate blizzard textures ? |
| 03:33.47 | Galvin | Think I found a bug or 2 in libbackdrop |
| 03:34.45 | OrionShock | how bad is it to run an OnUpdate all the time to simply check if the mouse is over a frame |
| 03:34.50 | Galvin | Insets change border size instead of the backdrop background, the top edge doesn't line up after i reize. |
| 03:35.10 | Galvin | why not use OnEnter? |
| 03:35.19 | OrionShock | I have buttons on top |
| 03:35.27 | Galvin | hmm |
| 03:35.36 | Galvin | can do a setscript on a button for onenter? |
| 03:35.38 | Galvin | *cant |
| 03:35.51 | OrionShock | ... could |
| 03:35.53 | OrionShock | ugly hack. |
| 03:36.04 | Galvin | onupdate seems just as ugly? :) |
| 03:37.42 | Axodious | http://gizmodo.com/5654066/chicken-nuggets-are-made-from-this-pink-chicken-goop <- anyone want a chicken nugget? |
| 03:37.45 | Axodious | sfw |
| 03:37.49 | OrionShock | how does the battlefield minimap doe it? |
| 03:39.42 | OrionShock | ... well that seems obnoxious ... |
| 03:40.09 | OrionShock | BattleFieldMinimap uses it's onUpdate handler to show and hide the tab.... |
| 03:40.10 | OrionShock | >.> |
| 03:41.42 | OrionShock | so fk it.. |
| 03:41.45 | OrionShock | works for them works for me |
| 03:41.54 | Galvin | Blizzard doesn't always use the best methods to do stuff in their UI |
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| 03:43.46 | Mikk | Particularily -- why the heck don't they have a sane timer implementation |
| 03:44.10 | starlon | heh no worries. I'm not always mentally sane anyways. I'm officially insane in other words. |
| 03:44.22 | starlon | true story |
| 03:47.50 | starlon | local luaTexts = {} |
| 03:47.50 | starlon | LibStub("LibScriptableDisplayPluginLuaTexts-1.0"):New(luaTexts) |
| 03:47.56 | starlon | Why would anyone want to use that? |
| 03:48.01 | starlon | Look what you have to type out. |
| 03:52.16 | Mikk | the gripe being what? |
| 03:52.18 | Mikk | lib name too long? |
| 03:52.51 | Mikk | i'll grant you with Ace2-style naming, it'd be named "Banana" or something |
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| 03:59.33 | OrionShock | Mikk, http://i52.tinypic.com/2prgytx.png |
| 03:59.36 | OrionShock | how bout that ? |
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| 04:33.33 | starlon | I thought WoW textures had to be a certain size |
| 04:34.00 | starlon | Is that true? |
| 04:34.02 | ckknight | Stanzilla: yes. |
| 04:34.05 | ckknight | err |
| 04:34.07 | ckknight | starlon* |
| 04:34.10 | starlon | k |
| 04:34.12 | starlon | thanks |
| 04:34.14 | ckknight | starlon: it has to be 2^n by 2^m |
| 04:34.18 | starlon | This website's wrong then. |
| 04:34.20 | starlon | k |
| 04:34.30 | ckknight | from 8x8 to 2048x2048 |
| 04:34.35 | starlon | k |
| 04:35.25 | ckknight | what website? |
| 04:35.35 | starlon | http://www.edowner.net/Texture-Tutorial/ |
| 04:35.54 | starlon | I may have looked it over though. I skimmed the page looking for it. |
| 04:36.10 | ckknight | that website's mostly correct |
| 04:36.39 | starlon | I found it. |
| 04:41.49 | starlon | What's a blp converter I can trust? Curse is down. |
| 04:43.44 | starlon | Does this look safe? The domain looks funky. http://dl.qj.net/pc-gaming/mmorpg/world-of-warcraft-wowimage-051.html |
| 04:44.10 | starlon | I guess I can trust my antivirus |
| 04:44.21 | starlon | I have little faith in it. |
| 04:45.55 | Networkerror | have you looked at http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?t=15439 |
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| 04:49.44 | starlon | Hmm I can't access it. |
| 04:49.57 | starlon | I went ahead and converted with that from the page. |
| 04:52.56 | Mikk | OrionShock: sexy =) |
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| 05:17.58 | Parnic | i've been using this for blp conversion, it seems to handle alpha pretty well (which is more than i can say for photoshop): http://provost.wowinterface.com/downloads/info6127-BLP2PNG.html |
| 05:26.40 | Primer | Anyone think Blizz would give a damn about a GM ticket asking for credit for the Thrall kill? |
| 05:26.52 | Primer | s/the/a/ |
| 05:26.57 | Primer | No one in the raid got credit |
| 05:27.02 | Primer | Yet, he wasn't tapped |
| 05:30.45 | Xinhuan | what? lol |
| 05:31.21 | Xinhuan | has anyone ever got any successful experience with trying to gain credit for achievement from a GM? |
| 05:35.11 | Humbedooh | hm well once |
| 05:35.32 | Humbedooh | but I blamed it on lag ;> |
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| 06:11.23 | evl | Xinhuan: yeah, someone in our guild had a gm clear ICC fro him |
| 06:11.29 | evl | to get kingslayer cheevo |
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| 06:38.41 | Fisker | why don't you just admit you're a spy Parnic? :( |
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| 07:26.58 | OrionShock | anyone know of a good icon for representing a pet, IE hunter/lock pet? |
| 07:28.26 | nevcairiel | the whistle? :d |
| 07:36.22 | Humbedooh | or mayhap the dismiss pet icon |
| 07:38.02 | OrionShock | nevcairiel, that's a good one... |
| 07:38.14 | OrionShock | .... I see Repo is not back yet |
| 07:38.38 | nevcairiel | Repo is here, just still refusing to be useful |
| 07:46.41 | starlon | Parnic: Thanks |
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| 08:55.39 | Stanzilla | Gnarfoz nevcairiel http://twitter.com/#!/cdu_nrw/statuses/26191353710 :p |
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| 08:58.33 | nevcairiel | haha, wonder when media picks up on that |
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| 09:05.31 | Slayman | all your souls are belong to me |
| 09:08.13 | Fisker | what does it say nevcairiel ? |
| 09:08.22 | Fisker | fuck the police? |
| 09:10.12 | OrionShock | is that written in german? |
| 09:10.27 | Fisker | no OrionShock |
| 09:10.31 | Fisker | it's written in nazi |
| 09:10.31 | Fisker | duh |
| 09:11.07 | OrionShock | throws a small nerf ball at Fisker |
| 09:14.27 | Zyn | it says eeh "a normal Kinderegg has been found containing 16 CPU's! It's now in police custody." |
| 09:17.25 | nevcairiel | close, but no cookie |
| 09:18.46 | nevcairiel | its one of our political parties, apparently justifying police brutality, claiming it wouldnt happen when teenagers would rather join their party instead of going protesting |
| 09:19.21 | Zyn | which is retarded |
| 09:20.17 | sbu | Stanzilla: mh.... :p |
| 09:20.18 | Stanzilla | it's a political party |
| 09:20.21 | Stanzilla | what do you expect? :D |
| 09:21.53 | sbu | nevcairiel: well, the only problem here in stuttgart will be a >50% "die gruenen" - so we can expect a car-ban in the city (or some other stupid things) :o |
| 09:21.57 | Fisker | is it the local racist party nevcairiel ? |
| 09:22.17 | nevcairiel | actually its the conservatives, more or less |
| 09:22.22 | Fisker | bah |
| 09:23.13 | sbu | heh wtf is this ptr release |
| 09:23.17 | nevcairiel | but yeah, comments like that don't make for good voter approvals |
| 09:23.22 | sbu | just reverting 50% class changes? :p |
| 09:24.00 | Stanzilla | i like my 700% dmg boost |
| 09:24.16 | nevcairiel | its just bibi doing diffs against beta, while obviously the ptr has been branched a while ago |
| 09:24.23 | sbu | its not 700% Stanzilla |
| 09:24.36 | Stanzilla | sbu: yeah i know, 700 for the pets |
| 09:25.35 | sbu | Stanzilla: oh wait.. does shadow app. scale with anything? spellpower etc. |
| 09:25.36 | Fisker | i don't get the october 5th date |
| 09:25.51 | nevcairiel | it won't happen on th 5th |
| 09:25.56 | nevcairiel | the arena season isnt over yet |
| 09:26.00 | Fisker | yeah |
| 09:26.17 | Fisker | sounds kinda weird to put out the patch a week before the arena is (maybe) scheduled to end |
| 09:26.27 | Stanzilla | sbu: i think so |
| 09:26.37 | nevcairiel | that would cause so much trouble to have one week of rated games with the new talents |
| 09:26.54 | nevcairiel | GC himself said that lvl 80 is not balanced |
| 09:27.04 | nevcairiel | (in 4.0) |
| 09:28.02 | nevcairiel | ~seen tuller |
| 09:28.06 | purl | tuller <~muffins@c-69-143-56-163.hsd1.va.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #curseforge, 13h 11m 59s ago, saying: 'dunno if its common knowledge or not, but the text area portion when posting a comment on curseforge is a bit broken in ie9 :)'. |
| 09:28.14 | Fisker | for example paladins are shit in 4.0 |
| 09:28.24 | nevcairiel | intended change, though |
| 09:28.25 | Fisker | but that's at level 85 as well :( |
| 09:28.40 | Fisker | yep |
| 09:28.46 | Fisker | reverse pala situation |
| 09:29.03 | Fisker | severely underpowered the first few days of release, severely overpowered the rest of the expansion |
| 09:29.08 | Fisker | instead of the other way around as it is now |
| 09:29.16 | nevcairiel | you wish |
| 09:29.28 | nevcairiel | you'll just start low, and end up even lower! |
| 09:29.33 | *** join/#wowace the-golem (~Darrin@c-98-255-201-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 09:29.37 | Fisker | likely |
| 09:29.47 | Stanzilla | everything I hear from holy paladins is "we lost our main tank healer signature position" |
| 09:29.55 | Fisker | but if i cannot repentance people to death by october 15th then i'll be disappointed |
| 09:30.14 | Fisker | i gave up on paladin healing in TBC |
| 09:30.17 | nevcairiel | Stanzilla: thats also an intended change :p |
| 09:30.24 | Stanzilla | I know |
| 09:30.29 | Fisker | never got to the haste niché we could apparently fit |
| 09:30.31 | Stanzilla | but many of them don't get it and complain |
| 09:30.38 | Stanzilla | because they actually liked holy light spam 2477 |
| 09:30.41 | Stanzilla | *24/7 |
| 09:31.24 | Fisker | Illidari Council was like the only fight paladins could really shine |
| 09:31.37 | Stanzilla | brutallus? |
| 09:31.42 | Fisker | maybe |
| 09:31.46 | Fisker | never got that far |
| 09:31.51 | Fisker | until like a week before wotlk |
| 09:32.08 | Fisker | we killed brutallus did rest of the evening on felmyst, then the expansion came out |
| 09:32.09 | Fisker | :P |
| 09:32.26 | Stanzilla | sucky raid! |
| 09:32.54 | Fisker | well they did a lot of silly stuff |
| 09:33.15 | Fisker | they decided to get full shadow resistance gear to all healers on an encounter in MH which we could already do without Shadow Resistance |
| 09:33.24 | Fisker | then like 3 healers quit |
| 09:33.28 | Fisker | herp derp |
| 09:34.22 | starlon | http://imgur.com/lZZ36 |
| 09:34.32 | starlon | animated icons on a tooltip heh |
| 09:34.38 | Fisker | what is that Stanzilla ? |
| 09:34.51 | Fisker | bah |
| 09:34.52 | Fisker | starlon |
| 09:34.57 | starlon | sup |
| 09:35.01 | Fisker | and by that i mean the black/white bars |
| 09:35.15 | starlon | bad juju? |
| 09:35.24 | Fisker | no u? |
| 09:35.28 | starlon | lol |
| 09:35.30 | starlon | :D |
| 09:35.43 | starlon | You don't like the bars? |
| 09:36.08 | Fisker | i don't get their purpose |
| 09:36.10 | sbu | Stanzilla: mhhh so they are now doing the damage they die 3 months ago? :P bzzzt ;) i have to test this |
| 09:36.22 | starlon | there's no purpose really |
| 09:36.32 | starlon | it's just flash |
| 09:36.35 | starlon | bling |
| 09:36.52 | Fisker | i hate it |
| 09:36.54 | Fisker | die |
| 09:36.57 | starlon | lol |
| 09:37.39 | Fisker | btw the new raid lockout system wouldn't come until cataclysm? |
| 09:37.45 | sbu | errr? |
| 09:37.48 | sbu | go read blues |
| 09:37.55 | sbu | 4.0.1 |
| 09:38.14 | Fisker | doh |
| 09:38.27 | Fisker | just believe i read a post yesterday going "omg why no raid lock in 4.0.1" |
| 09:38.30 | starlon | Fisker: You caught that it's animated? That's an ekg sorta. |
| 09:38.39 | sbu | so raiding will be over then for us... we cant to 10man hero LK and gathering shards in 25 hero :| |
| 09:38.51 | Stanzilla | sbu: i hope so |
| 09:39.14 | sbu | Stanzilla: yay! :p so its dotting everything + running around again :p |
| 09:39.17 | Fisker | starlon i still hate it and wish you would die |
| 09:39.26 | starlon | That's harsh. |
| 09:39.45 | Stanzilla | sbu: could make leveling from 80 to 81 a breeze :p |
| 09:43.35 | starlon | A 32x32 animated combat visualization. Hah |
| 09:49.49 | starlon | I don't see the problem in drawing images on a tooltip. It's partly for fun. I'm more less exploring WoW's capabilities. I learned tonight you could insert textures using format codes, so I decided to see what I could make. :) |
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| 09:58.10 | Fisker | normally i'm not one to complain |
| 09:59.41 | arkanes | LIES |
| 10:00.07 | Fisker | xD |
| 10:02.06 | starlon | heh |
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| 10:05.30 | starlon | bippity boppity |
| 10:06.44 | Torhal | quickly throws a wasp-filled burlap sack over Fisker's head. |
| 10:06.52 | Torhal | goes to get ready for work. |
| 10:07.03 | Slayman | THE WASPS, NO NOT THE WASPS |
| 10:08.52 | arkanes | pally healing actually feels great to me in 4.0 |
| 10:09.10 | arkanes | at 85, though, it's sucking dog nuts |
| 10:09.12 | Slayman | holypriest on the ptr has got me strung up too |
| 10:09.38 | arkanes | thats a mana issue though, and maybe it'll get better with gear. Half my stuff is still 277s |
| 10:09.50 | nevcairiel | Mana is supposed to be limited |
| 10:09.53 | arkanes | yeah I know |
| 10:10.02 | arkanes | but like I have all these new tools to use, but not enough mana to use them |
| 10:10.10 | nevcairiel | maybe you're just not good at it yet :D |
| 10:10.19 | arkanes | I can't afford to cast light of dawn or the other thing more than once a fight |
| 10:10.23 | nevcairiel | i mean, going from one button to multiple is quite a stretch ;) |
| 10:10.26 | arkanes | heh |
| 10:10.35 | arkanes | thats the thing, I'm still only using a couple buttons |
| 10:10.43 | nevcairiel | maybe thats your problem |
| 10:10.45 | nevcairiel | think about it! |
| 10:10.48 | arkanes | cause I can't afford anything except holy shock, holy light, and word of glory |
| 10:11.29 | arkanes | 7k mana a pop for divine light, 9k for my aoe heals |
| 10:11.30 | arkanes | its rough, man |
| 10:12.07 | nevcairiel | 9k mana for one cast? sure you're reading the numbers right? o.O |
| 10:12.23 | arkanes | absolutely |
| 10:12.36 | arkanes | mana costs go up 5x from 80 to 85 |
| 10:12.56 | arkanes | but my mana pool only increased about 50% |
| 10:13.40 | nevcairiel | my fast heal is 3.4k a cast, but i'm not supposed to use it all the time anyway |
| 10:13.55 | nevcairiel | the efficient heal is just 1000 though |
| 10:14.15 | arkanes | yeah holy light is only about 1k |
| 10:14.29 | nevcairiel | my big heal at 3.6 |
| 10:14.31 | arkanes | I can cast that, holy shock and of course word of glory for pretty much as long as I need to |
| 10:14.37 | arkanes | are you 85? |
| 10:15.15 | arkanes | cause if so, screw druids anyway |
| 10:15.27 | arkanes | only healer class left with good mana regen *and* you get cheap spells? |
| 10:15.28 | nevcairiel | the relative mana cost doesnt seem to change, just the cost of base mana |
| 10:15.38 | nevcairiel | and paladins have a whole lot more of base mana |
| 10:16.34 | arkanes | since everythings a percentage of, absolute value of base mana isn't important, though |
| 10:16.42 | nevcairiel | But it is |
| 10:16.52 | nevcairiel | 30% of base mana is what your spell costs |
| 10:16.57 | nevcairiel | and if paladins have more base mana |
| 10:17.01 | nevcairiel | they pay more for their 30% |
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| 10:17.24 | arkanes | well, it shouldn't be is what I mean |
| 10:17.39 | arkanes | but since you have low base mana, and thus geat cheap spells, you're in better shape when wearing the same gear |
| 10:17.46 | nevcairiel | regrowth is 35% base mana, and while i'm still a level short of 85, i dont see it doubling its cost with one level up |
| 10:17.53 | arkanes | oh |
| 10:18.00 | arkanes | well |
| 10:18.11 | arkanes | it does |
| 10:18.20 | nevcairiel | That would mean my base mana doubles |
| 10:18.23 | nevcairiel | i kinda doubt that |
| 10:18.26 | arkanes | actually no, it wasn't quite a doubling |
| 10:18.36 | arkanes | 6k to 9k for whatever my healing totem thing is called |
| 10:18.41 | arkanes | holy somethingorother |
| 10:19.10 | starlon | holy shit |
| 10:19.17 | starlon | couldn't resist. |
| 10:19.18 | nevcairiel | i should finish leveling, but some quest in uldum bugged on me |
| 10:19.34 | nevcairiel | and i cant continue =P |
| 10:19.47 | arkanes | anyway I don't think paladins stand out in the mana area, I've heard druids complaining too |
| 10:20.00 | arkanes | although revitalize is still stupidly OP compared to anyone elses mana regen |
| 10:20.01 | nevcairiel | every class complains |
| 10:20.07 | arkanes | yeah |
| 10:20.19 | nevcairiel | but thats just because healing was so stupidly easy before |
| 10:20.26 | nevcairiel | i actually quit playing because it was too easy, too boring |
| 10:20.47 | arkanes | its frustating having the tools to manage an encoutner and not being able to use them |
| 10:21.06 | nevcairiel | is that normal or heroic? ^ |
| 10:21.08 | arkanes | and they still toss out plenty of AOE damage in the dungeons |
| 10:21.10 | arkanes | normal |
| 10:21.58 | arkanes | like we made it through an encounter in halls of origination after 3 wipes only because I got 6 free word of glory procs in a row |
| 10:22.09 | arkanes | without it I went dry and couldn't handle the AOE damage |
| 10:24.43 | harl | hi there |
| 10:25.11 | starlon | you don't want to go there |
| 10:28.10 | harl | likes it "there" |
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| 10:45.10 | Pneumatus | is there any reason not to drop a :NewAddon table into the addon-wide table? |
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| 10:52.30 | nevcairiel | what now |
| 10:52.38 | nevcairiel | you can pass the addon wide table to NewAddon |
| 10:52.43 | nevcairiel | and use it that way |
| 10:53.37 | Pneumatus | yeh, i mean like: local name, addon = ...; addon = LibStub("AceAddon-3.0"):NewAddon() |
| 10:53.53 | nevcairiel | that would just overwrite it |
| 10:53.55 | nevcairiel | whats the point |
| 10:54.51 | nevcairiel | You can however do: local name, addon = ...; LibStub("AceAddon-3.0"):NewAddon(addon, "MyName") |
| 10:54.52 | Pneumatus | idk |
| 10:55.11 | nevcairiel | it doesnt create a new one then and uses the table |
| 10:56.19 | Pneumatus | another addon couldn't retrieve your addon table that way though, right? |
| 10:56.29 | nevcairiel | no |
| 10:56.33 | nevcairiel | not unless you global it somewhere |
| 10:56.37 | nevcairiel | well |
| 10:56.43 | nevcairiel | or use AceAddon:GetAddon |
| 10:57.05 | nevcairiel | there is no hiding a ace addon =p |
| 10:58.55 | Pneumatus | ofc, its still sat in _G somewhere |
| 11:00.24 | Pneumatus | ah, i misunderstood, you still have to pass name through to NewAddon even if you pass a table as the first arg |
| 11:00.41 | nevcairiel | of course |
| 11:01.53 | nevcairiel | we're some special kind of crazy and put optional parameters at the front =) |
| 11:02.10 | Pneumatus | special kind of crazy, yes |
| 11:03.11 | Pneumatus | so then in other files you'd still need to :GetAddon(name), or could you pull it out of the table directly? |
| 11:04.23 | nevcairiel | within your own addon you can just use the table in ... |
| 11:04.47 | Pneumatus | ok, got it |
| 11:07.21 | arkanes | thats what I do |
| 11:07.35 | arkanes | use the table in ... in all my files, and pass it to NewAddon |
| 11:09.34 | vhaarr | haste: ouf master is not compatible with live any more, right? |
| 11:09.58 | haste | vhaarr: correct, I removed all the support code a couple of hours ago |
| 11:10.05 | vhaarr | alright, thanks |
| 11:10.16 | haste | I might add it back, but right now I want it 100% working on beta first |
| 11:10.27 | haste | the current solutions aren't set in stone either |
| 11:17.04 | vhaarr | aww NaziGnome has been removed from wowace |
| 11:17.46 | vhaarr | now I need to make a new addon with a different, provocative name |
| 11:18.18 | Pneumatus | NeoNaziGnome |
| 11:18.58 | vhaarr | FascistGnome, would that be acceptable? |
| 11:19.03 | vhaarr | I'll make a new project |
| 11:21.35 | quiescens | o.o |
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| 11:26.58 | vhaarr | hm repo still down I guess |
| 11:27.53 | haste | it's written in python instead of lua, clearly why |
| 11:29.25 | stew-a | is anything like / as good as ATSW these days? |
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| 14:37.55 | harl | uses Producer |
| 14:38.05 | harl | ATSW was too buggy and bloated much. |
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| 14:59.14 | Axodious | atsw = ? |
| 14:59.33 | Humbedooh | Advanced Trade Skill Windowzors |
| 14:59.45 | Axodious | ah |
| 15:11.37 | arkanes | good lord heroic deadmines is brutal |
| 15:12.46 | arkanes | 40k swings from the trash ogres |
| 15:13.04 | quiescens | stop getting hit |
| 15:13.29 | arkanes | I was the healer :\ |
| 15:14.05 | quiescens | point stands! |
| 15:14.18 | arkanes | it wasn't me being hit! |
| 15:14.24 | arkanes | 40k swings on a tank |
| 15:14.53 | quiescens | tell them to stop getting hit |
| 15:15.35 | arkanes | yeah I tried |
| 15:15.42 | arkanes | he ragequit in protest |
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| 15:23.20 | nevcairiel | I'm glad heroics are somewhat hard, you're not supposed to just roll through them the day you hit 85 |
| 15:23.36 | Axodious | yeah that's what i keep hearing too, glad about it |
| 15:23.46 | Axodious | original shattered halls = win |
| 15:23.56 | nevcairiel | indeed! |
| 15:23.59 | nevcairiel | that was an awesome dungeon |
| 15:24.15 | quiescens | back when people were first getting to level whatever it was the first few heroics had to be done fairly carefully too |
| 15:24.19 | quiescens | o.o |
| 15:24.19 | nevcairiel | original arcatraz as well |
| 15:24.43 | Pneumatus | original mana tombs |
| 15:24.48 | Axodious | i didn't have much problem with arch |
| 15:24.50 | Axodious | arc * |
| 15:25.19 | nevcairiel | mana tombs never was that hard |
| 15:25.56 | Axodious | original shadow labs |
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| 15:26.36 | Axodious | back when mind controlling mobs was the cool thing to do |
| 15:27.07 | nevcairiel | i really hope they dont nerf the heroics too soon |
| 15:27.11 | nevcairiel | i'm sure they will eventually |
| 15:27.12 | Axodious | same |
| 15:27.14 | quiescens | mind controlling things is only fun when they have.. interesting, abilities |
| 15:27.28 | Axodious | mind controlling the adds in botanica |
| 15:27.31 | Axodious | the ones that spin |
| 15:27.32 | Axodious | >:D |
| 15:27.39 | quiescens | the heroics weren't nerfed that badly, people will just inevitably outgear them |
| 15:27.58 | nevcairiel | in BC they nerfed them down quite alot |
| 15:28.01 | Axodious | wotlk heroics weren't really nerfed much at all... just the achieves |
| 15:28.06 | nevcairiel | in wotlk they never were hard |
| 15:28.08 | Axodious | they were just easy >_> |
| 15:28.19 | Axodious | easy and there was a LOT of them |
| 15:28.48 | nevcairiel | BC had alot of instances too |
| 15:28.53 | quiescens | I don't recall them being made significantly easier in BC so much as.. shorter |
| 15:28.53 | Axodious | i had better not ever see an instance with that stupid flying jolsting |
| 15:28.55 | Pneumatus | i hope they continue to keep epics out of heroics, or their associated reward points |
| 15:29.06 | Pneumatus | *and |
| 15:29.32 | Axodious | quiescens most of the highest level instances in bc were beaten down with a large stick |
| 15:29.39 | nevcairiel | i actually dont know how heroic loot looks |
| 15:29.51 | nevcairiel | I know that justice points only buy you blues |
| 15:30.00 | nevcairiel | but if heroics give the better points .. no idea |
| 15:30.08 | Axodious | do they? |
| 15:30.12 | Axodious | thought they gave jp |
| 15:30.31 | nevcairiel | no idea, havent done one yet |
| 15:30.34 | arkanes | heroic loot is ilevel 333 blues, same stuff you get from rep rewards and JP |
| 15:30.34 | Humbedooh | mr. nev! |
| 15:30.37 | arkanes | as far as I can tell anyway |
| 15:30.40 | Axodious | pretty sure jp is instances |
| 15:30.43 | Axodious | and then theres another for raids |
| 15:30.47 | nevcairiel | yeah |
| 15:30.49 | Humbedooh | can you approve LibMouseGestures-1.0 pretty please? |
| 15:31.03 | Humbedooh | so I can go visit my poor demented grandma |
| 15:31.11 | Axodious | i still can't decide how i'm going to level |
| 15:31.16 | Axodious | grind instances with a group of guilies |
| 15:31.19 | Axodious | guildies * |
| 15:31.23 | Axodious | or quest |
| 15:31.26 | Pneumatus | heroics drop 346 versions of the 333 blues |
| 15:31.34 | Pneumatus | and give justice points |
| 15:31.37 | Pneumatus | which are the cheap points |
| 15:31.53 | nevcairiel | 346 is still blue, not epic? |
| 15:31.57 | Pneumatus | yes |
| 15:32.00 | nevcairiel | good |
| 15:32.18 | Axodious | i can already see people complaining at me if i decide to tank with pvp gear on.... plan on capping both sets of points and using gear from both |
| 15:32.21 | nevcairiel | so no epics for dungeon goings |
| 15:32.33 | Pneumatus | i hope they keep it that way |
| 15:32.35 | Axodious | pretty sure pvp gear is going to be better than what i'd have on at 85 |
| 15:32.42 | Pneumatus | and don't tier-up justice points rewards |
| 15:32.43 | nevcairiel | well, eventually there will be epics |
| 15:33.01 | nevcairiel | once the next raid tier is there, the previous is converted to justice points |
| 15:33.10 | Pneumatus | yeh, do not want that. |
| 15:33.10 | nevcairiel | thats how i understand the system, anyway |
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| 15:33.16 | Axodious | i agree with Pneumatus |
| 15:33.37 | Axodious | and don't release a toc 5 man :| |
| 15:34.29 | nevcairiel | keeping raid gear to raids would be best, i agree |
| 15:34.34 | nevcairiel | but its not going to happen :X |
| 15:34.39 | arkanes | they're never going back to the BC model where any new player has to progress through *all* the raids in order to reach current content |
| 15:34.50 | quiescens | oh here we go again |
| 15:35.09 | arkanes | I'm not interested in debating whether its good or not, but it's not gonna happen |
| 15:35.30 | arkanes | hopefully they'll tier it tighter than they did in lk |
| 15:36.00 | Pneumatus | the fact you can gear for the most recent raid tier from heroics is bad design, period |
| 15:36.06 | Axodious | mhmm |
| 15:37.18 | nevcairiel | Humbedooh: i'll look at it in a while. It doesnt need to be approved for most stuff that you do with it, though :d |
| 15:37.30 | quiescens | yeah, its clearly preferable to make any potential new raiders join less advanced guilds just to take some gear so they can leave and join the better guilds |
| 15:37.57 | arkanes | there's obvious downsides to both models |
| 15:38.32 | Humbedooh | nevcairiel: maybe not, but if Torhal gets there first, he'll flag it as experimental like he always does :p |
| 15:38.35 | arkanes | blizz has decided that letting people into raids faster and with less prep is a lesser evil than blocking raid content from most of their player base |
| 15:39.19 | Axodious | it's true, but it shouldn't be "ok i spent a day doing heroics lets go do icc25" |
| 15:39.24 | arkanes | indeed |
| 15:39.27 | Axodious | (i've done that) |
| 15:39.30 | nevcairiel | Humbedooh: i flag it as under review, so he wont :p |
| 15:39.33 | arkanes | and like I said, hopefully they'll tighten it up more than they have |
| 15:39.35 | Humbedooh | ^^ |
| 15:40.07 | Axodious | the other big problem cause was the boes |
| 15:40.08 | arkanes | there were a bunch of things that contributed to that happening, most of which they've said they want to change |
| 15:40.10 | nevcairiel | Axodious: wtb attunments. I loved the TK attunment in BC, doing some heroics with "achievements" (well, wasnt called that back then) |
| 15:40.36 | vhaarr | onyxia questline for the win, srsly |
| 15:40.40 | Pneumatus | bring back the BC attunement system, except attune the guild rather than individuals |
| 15:40.49 | arkanes | the ICC buff, the intentional ease of the first wing, especially on 25 both were important factors, gear inflation alone wouldn't have done it |
| 15:41.29 | nevcairiel | Pneumatus: i rather have individuals tbh, or slackers still join a guild that has it and be done with it |
| 15:41.52 | Axodious | they should have atunements, just not as ridiculous as some of the previous ones |
| 15:41.54 | Pneumatus | nevcairiel: then its up to the guild if they want to take them, i guess |
| 15:41.54 | nevcairiel | and in BC for example, having done the TK attunment (before it was nerfed), actually meant you know something about playing :p |
| 15:42.08 | Pneumatus | in BC at least, you'd just ignore applications from potentially good players if they werent attuned |
| 15:42.18 | Pneumatus | as you'd have to waste raid nights attuning them |
| 15:42.23 | quiescens | I would say I don't mind attunements from heroics or such |
| 15:42.39 | quiescens | Requiring raid-level stuff for attunements is too far |
| 15:42.53 | nevcairiel | why waste raid nights Pneumatus? It was just heroics that needed to be done (unless i forgot something) |
| 15:43.03 | Axodious | bt atunement |
| 15:43.05 | Pneumatus | BT attunement needed SSC/Hyjal |
| 15:43.05 | Axodious | ;p |
| 15:43.12 | nevcairiel | oh bt |
| 15:43.36 | nevcairiel | i dunno, we were always kinda reluctant to take people that didnt know the previous raid tiers |
| 15:44.01 | quiescens | but then what are they meant to do? |
| 15:44.01 | Axodious | well the thing was |
| 15:44.10 | quiescens | go join some other guild expressly for the purpose of ditching them later? |
| 15:44.17 | Axodious | if they hadnt done ssc/tk then they really hadn't done bc raiding |
| 15:44.31 | Axodious | yeah sure gruul, mag but it's not the same |
| 15:44.54 | *** join/#wowace starlon (~starlon@melody.lyrical.net) |
| 15:45.02 | arkanes | eh you can still do that if you want |
| 15:45.25 | arkanes | I mean, just because blizz doesn't force it on applicants for you doesn't mean you can't choose to do it |
| 15:45.29 | Axodious | the flip side of that quiescens is making gear feel like nothing |
| 15:46.14 | arkanes | don't recruit anyone who hasn't done all the raid content before what you're working on, poof attunements |
| 15:47.09 | quiescens | shrugs, I prefer that purely because I don't like how the other side makes it feel like "well go get your achievements and gear from some other guild and then you can ditch them and come join us" |
| 15:48.23 | Pneumatus | why would you leave that guild, as they are now as progressed as you are? |
| 15:48.31 | nevcairiel | He can't make up for raid experience in that time. By the time he has the experience, we've moved on to the next tier |
| 15:48.44 | nevcairiel | If you're late to the party, you should join a guild thats also late |
| 15:48.45 | nevcairiel | (or slow) |
| 15:48.50 | Pneumatus | exactly |
| 15:49.03 | Pneumatus | you join the progress chain at the bottom and you stay at whatever level you're progressing at |
| 15:49.29 | arkanes | what about that makes for good game design? |
| 15:49.45 | quiescens | indeed |
| 15:49.53 | nevcairiel | imho its a good game design |
| 15:49.57 | Pneumatus | it means you get to experience EVERYTHING |
| 15:50.00 | nevcairiel | Why would you skip tiers just to pay the "last"? |
| 15:50.01 | arkanes | I'm asking an honest question |
| 15:50.05 | quiescens | i don't see why a player shouldn't have a chance to work up to a reasonable level through their own effort |
| 15:50.05 | arkanes | what about it is good? |
| 15:50.06 | Pneumatus | not just the latest raid tier, as everything else gets abandoned |
| 15:50.22 | Axodious | player 1 works his ass off from the begining to get where hes at, player 2 come along the next patch and does 1/8 the work to be at the same point |
| 15:50.28 | arkanes | so what |
| 15:50.45 | arkanes | that only matters if you think the most important thing about a game is beating other people |
| 15:50.51 | nevcairiel | arkanes: the player gets to experience the full content, basically the way its meant to be played, and not joining some guild 3 tiers higher, getting equipped, and maybe, just maybe, going back to the old content he skipped, totally outgearing it, and thinking "man this is silly" |
| 15:51.20 | arkanes | and even then you're rigging the game against new people |
| 15:51.34 | arkanes | nevcairiel: well that'll happen with or without the attunments |
| 15:51.35 | nevcairiel | They can still play the same content |
| 15:51.37 | Axodious | if you're playing to progress through content then you're playing to be better than others |
| 15:51.50 | arkanes | Axodious: are you? |
| 15:52.02 | Axodious | i play casually now >_> |
| 15:52.03 | arkanes | obviously some people do |
| 15:52.18 | arkanes | but I think it's pretty ridiculous to assume everyone does |
| 15:52.49 | arkanes | nevcairiel: the only thing that changes with the game-enforced attunments is that the set of latecomers who get carried rapidly to endgame content becomes tiny |
| 15:53.13 | arkanes | nevcairiel: basically the people who manage, through luck or whatever circumstances, to get noticed and geared up by a progressed guild who's trying to recruit |
| 15:53.34 | Axodious | they could make a dynamic atunement |
| 15:53.41 | Axodious | based on how fast/well you do it |
| 15:53.45 | arkanes | and blizzard ends up spending all their time and energy creating content that only a quarter of their player base sees |
| 15:53.51 | arkanes | which doesn't even make financial sense for them |
| 15:54.05 | Axodious | if you don't do it fast/well enough you don't get the latest atunement |
| 15:54.11 | Axodious | making you have to get more experience/gear |
| 15:54.11 | arkanes | sunwell and the original naxx were utter failures from a business perspective |
| 15:54.25 | Axodious | rather than static questline |
| 15:54.37 | Pneumatus | neg, you realise that the raiders that have been playing since release are the company's bread and butter |
| 15:54.43 | arkanes | nonsense |
| 15:55.26 | arkanes | how can they be the bread and butter when they're a tiny, tiny portion of the population |
| 15:55.55 | Axodious | arkanes is right, it hasn't been that way since wotlk came out |
| 15:56.02 | arkanes | you'd have better luck arguing that the hardcore PVP people are the bread and butter |
| 15:56.21 | arkanes | they've *always* been a tiny portion |
| 15:56.29 | kagaro | Galvin, i fixed the insets issue |
| 15:56.38 | kagaro | still working on the top section sizing |
| 15:56.48 | arkanes | how many people in vanilla ever completed nax? something like 10%? |
| 15:56.58 | Axodious | that i don't agree with, raiding in classic and earlier bc (pre-sunwell) was a larger market |
| 15:57.10 | Axodious | nax was a failure you said yourself |
| 15:57.17 | Axodious | how many people did mc/bwl/aq40/zg |
| 15:57.26 | arkanes | I was on a high pop server in vanilla, and there weren't more than 500 people who ever saw bwl, much less anything past it |
| 15:57.37 | arkanes | well, maybe a bit more |
| 15:57.40 | Axodious | well then your server must've sucked :P |
| 15:57.42 | arkanes | 3 guilds, horde side |
| 15:57.44 | arkanes | maybe we did |
| 15:58.24 | arkanes | but I wouldn't be surprised if that was typical. Running a 40 man guild and keeping it progressed was a chore |
| 15:58.50 | Axodious | it became a chore when nax was released imo |
| 15:58.58 | nevcairiel | Back then wearing tier 2 or even higher was really special |
| 15:59.01 | Axodious | because aq40 was too long |
| 15:59.03 | nevcairiel | i dont think 500 people on my server saw it |
| 15:59.15 | nevcairiel | until we started selling gear from it |
| 15:59.16 | nevcairiel | :P |
| 16:00.43 | Pneumatus | we ran 2x 40-man raids |
| 16:00.45 | *** join/#wowace faCe| (~face@p5489C334.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:00.48 | arkanes | raiding is obvously the endgame |
| 16:01.02 | arkanes | but the "hardcore" raider who cares about world and server firsts |
| 16:01.06 | arkanes | they're not |
| 16:01.12 | Axodious | correct |
| 16:01.30 | arkanes | so designing a system to appease them is not good design |
| 16:01.48 | Axodious | i didn't say to do that |
| 16:01.53 | arkanes | especially when it's a purely emotional appeasement |
| 16:02.25 | Pneumatus | why do people wanting to start raiding NEED to have instant access to the most recent raid tier though? |
| 16:02.33 | Pneumatus | why not make them progress |
| 16:02.44 | Axodious | if they were to do what they did in wotlk to say, diablo 2 you'd start off in nightmare mode act 5 equally geared >_< |
| 16:02.58 | arkanes | Pneumatus: because of the time investment |
| 16:03.25 | arkanes | blizzard has to make entry into, and progression through, the current raid tier expensive in terms of time |
| 16:03.28 | *** join/#wowace Megalon (~Megalon@d86-32-5-113.cust.tele2.at) |
| 16:03.49 | arkanes | otherwise the ration between time to create content and the time in which its consumed just gets totally uncontrollable, and it's bad enough now |
| 16:04.26 | arkanes | but if they don't make access to current content easier with each tier, every tier they create gets fewer and fewer consumers |
| 16:04.40 | arkanes | its the same basic idea as expansions, but on a smaller scale |
| 16:05.10 | quiescens | you people make it too complicated |
| 16:05.12 | quiescens | lol |
| 16:05.33 | nevcairiel | then delay access by one more tier. The time after the last content patch was always long enough for people to catch up, and have more to do |
| 16:05.54 | arkanes | they might do that |
| 16:06.06 | arkanes | there's a bunch of things they can do |
| 16:06.12 | quiescens | isn't it roughly like that as it is? |
| 16:06.21 | nevcairiel | nah, people get 232 gear and start icc |
| 16:06.30 | arkanes | keeping the progression and nerfing the content, so you can move through it quickly, is something they can do too |
| 16:06.38 | quiescens | 232 being 2 down from icc gear |
| 16:06.39 | quiescens | ? |
| 16:06.50 | Axodious | they were on the right track at the end of bc with atunement, require the person to do the previous raid(s) at least once |
| 16:07.10 | arkanes | the reason you can start icc in 232 gear is because the first wing is designed to be easy, the buff makes it even easier, and you're not in a raid full of people in the same gear |
| 16:07.18 | nevcairiel | its mostly that icc dmg buff that opened it up for everyone |
| 16:07.26 | nevcairiel | with 30% bonus a 232 can go there without issues |
| 16:07.47 | Axodious | well, that and you don't start with just 232, you have access to crafted 245/264 and boe 264 |
| 16:08.10 | nevcairiel | yeah well, they'll always keep those |
| 16:08.30 | arkanes | if you consider icc as 2 tiers of raid content instead of one, they're actually doing what nev just suggested |
| 16:08.33 | Pneumatus | there's really no need for BoEs now |
| 16:08.47 | nevcairiel | BoEs maybe not, but crafted will always be there |
| 16:08.47 | Pneumatus | the guild bank fund perk takes care of repairs etc |
| 16:09.31 | Axodious | if they removed the boes and craftables it would solve a large portion of people jumping into the latest content |
| 16:09.42 | Axodious | cause right now you can gear almost a half gear set of at least 245 |
| 16:09.43 | arkanes | nah |
| 16:10.04 | quiescens | I just.. don't have much qualms with someone having gone to the effort to collect a reasonable gear level from heroics and then maybe some high end craftables if they go on to demonstrate sufficient ability to succeed in the latest content then they should be able to do do so |
| 16:10.55 | nevcairiel | getting gear from heroics was no effort in wotlk, which is part of the problem |
| 16:11.00 | Axodious | following what you said arkanes about the multiple tiers in icc |
| 16:11.05 | Axodious | if theres no boes or craftables atm |
| 16:11.09 | nevcairiel | short of HoR you just faceroll through all of them with every crappy group |
| 16:11.13 | Axodious | you've got 232 gear (ignore icc buff for the time being) |
| 16:11.25 | Axodious | no one is going to take you beyond gunship |
| 16:11.34 | Axodious | until you get the gear from those bosses |
| 16:11.46 | quiescens | I guess I just don't see that as an issue |
| 16:11.46 | arkanes | saurfangs probably possible |
| 16:11.48 | nevcairiel | eh |
| 16:11.56 | nevcairiel | i was in ulduar-25 gear when icc went live |
| 16:12.01 | nevcairiel | and i went to saurfang just fine |
| 16:12.07 | Axodious | saurfang you could squeeze by but if you get mark that could hurt |
| 16:12.19 | arkanes | was your entire raid in ulduar 25 gear, nev? |
| 16:12.31 | arkanes | the marks not *that* dangerous on regular |
| 16:12.42 | nevcairiel | nah, toc10 mostly |
| 16:12.49 | arkanes | does he do the heal if the mark dies on reg? I don't remember |
| 16:12.55 | Axodious | you're still missing a significant amount of health between 232 and 245 gear |
| 16:13.00 | nevcairiel | but my ulduar25/ulduar25hc gear was pretty much the same level, tbh |
| 16:13.05 | Axodious | yes Archarodim |
| 16:13.07 | Axodious | er arkanes |
| 16:13.15 | Axodious | tab fail |
| 16:13.16 | arkanes | its gotta be a smaller heal, then |
| 16:13.33 | Axodious | think it's the same heal |
| 16:13.37 | arkanes | hmm |
| 16:13.38 | Axodious | just the mark generation is slower |
| 16:13.39 | quiescens | irssi's tab order is based on who typed last |
| 16:13.40 | quiescens | lol |
| 16:13.42 | arkanes | maybe it was DI people were using |
| 16:13.51 | nevcairiel | the first times we did him, letting someone die was not really possible |
| 16:13.52 | arkanes | I never did him on 25 as progression |
| 16:13.59 | nevcairiel | or you would wipe eventually |
| 16:14.12 | nevcairiel | due to missing dps, too many marks, etc |
| 16:14.30 | arkanes | each mark increases his BP regen |
| 16:14.44 | arkanes | so sacrificing an early mark was a legit strategy for the early kills |
| 16:14.57 | Axodious | but anyway the point is in 232 gear you dont get past point x until you do the raid a few times, right now you can start in like ilvl avg of 238-240 |
| 16:15.20 | Axodious | well, maybe not that high |
| 16:15.53 | Axodious | probably roughly equal to someone whos in 232 gear |
| 16:16.01 | Axodious | without doing hte work though |
| 16:16.26 | nevcairiel | When heroics feel more heroic in cata, it will hopefully change this a bit |
| 16:16.34 | nevcairiel | So not every idiot can sleep his way to 232 |
| 16:16.46 | nevcairiel | (well, doesnt even get epics until the second tier is released) |
| 16:16.56 | haste | mmmm... hello kitty ice cream |
| 16:16.57 | Axodious | the other thing that could help instead of removing boes and crafted all together |
| 16:17.01 | Axodious | make them always the same slots |
| 16:17.12 | nevcairiel | for all tiers, you mean? |
| 16:17.13 | Axodious | so you dont get 3 pieces of 245 and 3 pieces of 264 |
| 16:17.57 | Axodious | like right now 264 is pants belt crafted, 245 is chest boots iirc |
| 16:18.01 | Axodious | plus boes |
| 16:18.11 | nevcairiel | 264 has boots |
| 16:18.22 | nevcairiel | at least leather |
| 16:18.26 | Axodious | you get the what i mean |
| 16:18.30 | nevcairiel | not sure if that varies between armor type as well :p |
| 16:18.31 | quiescens | notwithstanding that I think its silly either way |
| 16:18.50 | quiescens | you also have to consider the fact that if they do that, crafting will just fade into obscurity again |
| 16:18.54 | Shirik | My boots are made for walkin |
| 16:18.56 | quiescens | and/or |
| 16:18.59 | Shirik | and that's just what they'll do |
| 16:19.15 | quiescens | it will go back to "you have to pick your craft skill for BoP gear purposes" |
| 16:19.48 | arkanes | fitting yourself out in an entire set of 245/264 crafted gear is a non-trivial investment |
| 16:20.05 | arkanes | I'm not sure that I'd consider it a problem that it's possible to do it |
| 16:20.41 | Axodious | unless you are brand new to the game it is pretty trivial |
| 16:20.49 | Axodious | and we're not really talking about people brand new to the game |
| 16:20.50 | arkanes | well what isn't trivial then? |
| 16:20.56 | arkanes | and of course we are, thats the entire point |
| 16:21.01 | Axodious | right now? nothing really |
| 16:21.04 | Axodious | heroic lk? |
| 16:21.19 | quiescens | everyone should just have to play through every single instance and raid in sequence in order to reach me! |
| 16:21.23 | arkanes | if running heroics is trivial, and getting crafted gear is trivial, then what exactly would you consider someone 'doing the work" to get raid-ready? |
| 16:21.48 | Axodious | heroics are trivial yea, but you still have to do them |
| 16:21.56 | Axodious | and it doesn't take 10 minutes of crafting |
| 16:22.32 | arkanes | a full set of boe gear is going to knock you back a solid 50k gold if you just straight up buy everything |
| 16:22.44 | arkanes | at least |
| 16:22.47 | Pneumatus | VoA dropping PvE gear compounds the problem also |
| 16:23.06 | Axodious | most people arent straight up buying everything |
| 16:23.23 | arkanes | if dropping 50k gold to get *halfway* to being able to start out raiding content is too easy, well, I'm not sure what planet you live in |
| 16:23.39 | arkanes | if you *dont* straight up buy it, you have to acquire it, which is at least as much work as running heroics |
| 16:24.31 | Axodious | all i'm saying is you shouldnt be able to have a character you just leveled up ready for icc, you got some cash to make a couple pieces of boe crafted w/e gear fine, but not half a gear set |
| 16:24.41 | arkanes | and why not |
| 16:24.53 | arkanes | because if we're not talking about new players here, then whats the problem? |
| 16:25.11 | arkanes | that half a gear set is *entry* level gear |
| 16:25.20 | Axodious | fine, then just let emblems/jp/whatever transferable between characters |
| 16:25.49 | arkanes | what does that change about your problem? |
| 16:26.13 | Axodious | it doesn't, just lets anyone get whatever they want whenever basically |
| 16:27.02 | Axodious | i know people that play the game, can't raid for anything that have 100k+ just from playing the ah while leveling |
| 16:27.19 | arkanes | sure |
| 16:27.31 | quiescens | in which case they should have nothing to gain from doing that of course |
| 16:27.43 | arkanes | so clearly you believe that "playing the AH" shouldn't count as playing the game |
| 16:27.45 | quiescens | their effort shouldn't give them any worthwhile gear because they aren't raiding with us |
| 16:27.52 | Axodious | again i didnt say that |
| 16:28.02 | arkanes | well whats the point then |
| 16:28.21 | arkanes | yes, someone who can't raid very well can play the AH for a few weeks, and gather enough money to get half of the gear they need to start raiding |
| 16:28.32 | arkanes | but so what? |
| 16:29.03 | quiescens | frankly they still won't end up raiding if they aren't good enough to actually raid |
| 16:29.32 | Axodious | but they skip the content in between that which could be valuable to learning |
| 16:29.49 | Axodious | limit the crafted stuff ot the same slot each tier |
| 16:29.54 | Axodious | they can still go and get stuff |
| 16:30.01 | Axodious | just not 5 pieces of gear |
| 16:30.03 | *** join/#wowace Nickenyfiken (~Miranda@c83-255-99-211.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 16:30.04 | Axodious | or w/e the number is |
| 16:30.27 | arkanes | so you're okay with crafted gear, as long as the gear doesn't actually matter |
| 16:30.31 | Axodious | it does |
| 16:30.49 | Axodious | you can go and get 2 pieces of really good crafted gear which will give you a pretty good boost |
| 16:30.57 | Axodious | but it doesn't mean skip all the content |
| 16:31.09 | arkanes | you can't skip all the content with 5 pieces either |
| 16:31.10 | Axodious | you 2 pieces closer to doing it |
| 16:32.37 | Axodious | i bet i could get into an icc25 pug after crafting the craftables, buying the boes and doing the sword quest line |
| 16:33.11 | arkanes | I bet you can get into an icc25 pug without doing any of those things |
| 16:33.16 | arkanes | but thats not the issue |
| 16:33.30 | arkanes | or is it? Have we been talking about entry into icc 25 this whole time? |
| 16:34.25 | arkanes | bah server crashes |
| 16:36.20 | Axodious | here's what a holy paladin could get once they hit 80, if they got all of this and the stupid sword thing atm they could get into whatever most likely without doing anything other than the instances to get the sword |
| 16:36.21 | Axodious | http://www.wowhead.com/items=4?filter=ty=4:-3:-6:7:-5:-2:-4;minle=245;maxle=299;si=2;cr=3:123;crs=1:1;crv=0:1 |
| 16:36.33 | Axodious | imo that's just too much gear |
| 16:37.16 | Axodious | all the gear from both zones are different slots |
| 16:37.26 | Axodious | or are fingers etc |
| 16:38.59 | arkanes | a holy pally wearing all that gear and leveling greens otherwise is not going to be worth taking to a raid |
| 16:39.25 | arkanes | they obviously can get carried, but if you're going to be carried in a raid you may as well not buy the BOEs and just join a gdkp to drop your cash |
| 16:40.35 | Axodious | gdkp is a whole other thing (for some reason people have been banned for it :S) |
| 16:40.50 | arkanes | nobody has ever been banned for doing a gdkp |
| 16:40.58 | Axodious | uh yes they have |
| 16:41.07 | arkanes | no, they have not |
| 16:41.11 | Axodious | yes, they have |
| 16:41.23 | arkanes | you may be confusing "banned for stealing the pot from a gdkp" with "banned for doing a gdkp" |
| 16:41.35 | arkanes | please provide even a single reliable reference |
| 16:41.41 | Axodious | no, banned from hosting it, not stealing anything |
| 16:41.49 | arkanes | total nonsense |
| 16:41.55 | Axodious | the guild i use to play in had several of their members banned for 72 hours for doing it |
| 16:42.07 | vhaarr | that doesn't make any sense |
| 16:42.20 | arkanes | well someone involved was not being entirely truthful |
| 16:42.48 | arkanes | because you will not be banned for hosting, or joining, gdkps and running them in good faith, end of story |
| 16:44.30 | Axodious | anyway whether you believe me or not again is another thing i'm not including GDKP in this conversation atm, not every server has access to them |
| 16:45.19 | *** join/#wowace Shefki (~breser@fornix.brain.org) |
| 16:46.18 | arkanes | any server that has pugs that will take someone wearing half leveling greens is sufficiently advanced to host gdkps |
| 16:47.40 | Axodious | can't think of the proper way to explain this, gdkp also isn't something that is "part of the game" (best way i can put it) |
| 16:47.46 | *** join/#wowace profalbert (~profalber@188-23-36-221.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 16:48.07 | Axodious | it's not something blizzard takes into account? |
| 16:48.11 | quiescens | neither is any other form of dkp |
| 16:48.30 | arkanes | well then we're back to talking about what should be considered a reasonable amount of effort to get raid-ready |
| 16:48.31 | Axodious | but the boes and crafted stuff is ! |
| 16:48.40 | arkanes | rather the amount of effort it actually takes on live right now |
| 16:49.13 | arkanes | a new player, who's never raided before, is putting in a considerable amount of effort to acquire that gear, which is *not* itself sufficient |
| 16:50.27 | arkanes | and I'd still claim that the amount of effort represented in getting all that gear is nontrivial for an alt as well |
| 16:51.00 | Mikk | nontrivial maybe |
| 16:51.01 | Mikk | hard no |
| 16:51.41 | Mikk | my gf's new mage dinged 80 and was kingslayer less than a week later |
| 16:51.45 | arkanes | sure |
| 16:51.59 | arkanes | but we're not talking about that |
| 16:52.02 | Mikk | incidentally, it wasn't until one MORE week that she actually got [Superior] achievement >.< |
| 16:52.17 | Axodious | arkanes here's another look at this, what is the point of having all of these items on different slots between raids? |
| 16:52.19 | arkanes | since I'm sure that she didn't do *any* work, hard or not, to get into that raid and instead was carried |
| 16:52.31 | Mikk | well she brought her main when needed =) |
| 16:52.38 | arkanes | Axodious: it aids the flattening of the gear curve |
| 16:52.46 | arkanes | Axodious: which is a *goal*, remember, not a problem |
| 16:53.28 | Axodious | and there is a point where it's too much |
| 16:53.38 | Axodious | instead of flattening the curve it turns into a giant spike |
| 16:53.39 | quiescens | mikk: and it was the high level, low effort gear that got them there, not the fact that they know the encounter and how to play etc of course |
| 16:54.27 | arkanes | hah they put the vash'jir quest guy inside a building |
| 16:54.36 | arkanes | so now you can't actually see the phase change in front of your eyese |
| 16:54.42 | Axodious | lol |
| 16:54.50 | nevcairiel | hm wth happend |
| 16:54.56 | nevcairiel | i was sitting at spot 900 in the beta queue |
| 16:54.59 | nevcairiel | and suddenly, i get in |
| 16:55.01 | nevcairiel | \o/ |
| 16:55.04 | arkanes | servers rebooted |
| 16:55.05 | quiescens | hax |
| 16:55.31 | quiescens | he probably crashed them himself |
| 16:55.32 | quiescens | ! |
| 16:55.50 | arkanes | I'm pretty sure I crashed them once |
| 16:56.01 | arkanes | by buying dual spec on a toon that already had it |
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| 16:56.01 | quiescens | reported |
| 16:56.16 | arkanes | I tried it again yesterday, only DCes you now :P |
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| 17:07.08 | arkanes | getting to throne of tides without having sea legs is looking kinda tricky |
| 17:08.13 | arkanes | I only made it halfway to the sea floor :( |
| 17:10.30 | quiescens | pick up some more ballast |
| 17:12.36 | nevcairiel | or grow sea legs already |
| 17:13.18 | quiescens | tie yourself to an anvil or something |
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| 18:20.09 | starlon | Anyone have an example of CallbackHandler usage? |
| 18:20.26 | starlon | I need to plug into some events. |
| 18:21.03 | kagaro | starlon: check LibMapData it sets up callback handler for map change events |
| 18:21.19 | starlon | k |
| 18:23.25 | starlon | Have an example of the other end? I mean plugging into the events. |
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| 18:26.59 | vhaarr | bugsack/buggrabber I guess |
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| 18:27.38 | starlon | Grid2 had one. |
| 18:29.10 | starlon | or maybe not |
| 18:29.11 | starlon | heh |
| 18:29.14 | Fisker | Kaelten my man |
| 18:31.16 | Fisker | Kaelten my not so man |
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| 18:40.54 | Megalon | http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9738/91ba27ae16.jpg |
| 18:41.01 | Megalon | don't be so fiskerish Fisker |
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| 18:47.52 | starlon | vhaar: That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks. |
| 18:48.49 | Fisker | hey Megalon |
| 18:49.35 | starlon | punches Fisker. |
| 18:49.39 | Fisker | no starlon |
| 18:49.44 | starlon | It hurt huh |
| 18:49.53 | Megalon | i hope so |
| 18:49.59 | Fisker | nope starlon |
| 18:50.35 | Megalon | kills Fisker |
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| 18:53.02 | Amadeo | Anyone play on US-Dalaran? |
| 18:56.00 | Amadeo | :( |
| 18:57.30 | kagaro | Kaelten: i replicated teh failure again |
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| 19:10.42 | Xinhuan | gathermate, if you want another example of callbackhandler |
| 19:11.00 | Xinhuan | we fire events internally inside gathermate |
| 19:11.20 | Xinhuan | between internal modules, and for other addons to plug into |
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| 19:28.36 | starlon | Should I direct questions about LibGroupTalents on the LibTalentQuery thread? |
| 19:28.42 | starlon | I don't see one for LibGroupTalents |
| 19:28.54 | starlon | on = to |
| 19:35.53 | starlon | Nevermind. I just sent Greltok a pm. |
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| 20:20.10 | Torhal | Humbe^away: New author. Libraries (especially). Experimental. |
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| 21:46.53 | NeoTron | wonders how wowace can run out of virtual items... |
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| 21:56.23 | Torhal | NeoTron: Virtual supply and demand. |
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| 22:22.38 | NeoTron | ran out of imagination |
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| 22:27.10 | *** join/#wowace soehest (~soehest@50A1A447.flatrate.dk) |
| 22:29.20 | soehest | hello :-) anyone knows if the author of gmedia (goldpaw) ever hangs out in this channel? :-) |
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| 22:32.03 | Aeyan | I don't really monitor the user list, but I can't recall anyone chatting in here with that name. |
| 22:33.03 | soehest | Aeyan i see thank you so much, i better try to get in hold of him in another way :-) |
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| 22:33.20 | Aeyan | Sure thing. |
| 22:38.19 | Amadeo | what's the best way to level these days? just instancing? |
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| 22:42.18 | Aeyan | General quest progression while instance queued, I guess. |
| 22:44.14 | Amadeo | ideally if you could do back to back instances, that would be the best way? |
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| 22:50.16 | Gnarfoz | Kaelten: did the git server ssh keys change? |
| 22:50.32 | orionshock | Gnarfoz, yes they borked it in a server move |
| 22:50.38 | Gnarfoz | oh. |
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| 22:51.00 | orionshock | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:51.02 | Gnarfoz | 96:aa:8b:36:ff:72:38:18:8c:bf:4a:4f:99:be:c3:a8 is the new one then, I assume? |
| 22:51.48 | *** join/#wowace Mirrormn (ae83b2e5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.131.178.229) |
| 22:51.52 | Shefki | ssh-rsa AAA AB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAQEAx0NSV8f5wXfwlBTO5GqJ3XyojSjdbibkPL+wRqgIqE34umBBhNZ9aWgRiRmHcqg4zihs OWXJSg6Lt0CJSIB3Z/9pYkvWwTgzvGo4x5UyP39flxP/O36WTiwwfC3fRyP1ehoEA9m508Nbwqyc3UaIlkusdoFmzLWdQ R2lMgpj38EEc0d0zIfFmXqVpNT+4LaQveXXtM5O3wWPd1CF16jzpBvT876cw9yhc+CAotyTTa2YqOgMvVijwtLBy9KsiG 1t4Hp74PfjDcSYXjmZsF/Yj4NhwIUEY99kQfhld2a5VAPhJb5zRhbNB6YRy9YvpjClFiCPtra4WkBUdNao/y7I7Q== |
| 22:52.11 | Shefki | ^ New one. |
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| 22:52.19 | Gnarfoz | that's... the entire publickey, I assume? |
| 22:52.22 | Shefki | And there's porbably spaces in that becasue of how I copied it, just remove them. Sorry. |
| 22:52.26 | Shefki | Yes. |
| 22:52.35 | Gnarfoz | I'd just have needed confirmation on the fingerprint *g* |
| 22:52.50 | *** join/#wowace Primer (~daniel@www.ceregatti.org) |
| 22:52.57 | Shefki | I don't have the fingerprint handy and Kaelten gave us the key. |
| 22:53.02 | Gnarfoz | hehe, I see |
| 22:53.17 | orionshock | ahh old fashioned SSH IMO more people should be using encryption in their lives... |
| 22:54.01 | Torhal | orionshock: ghI87ddz%ashj! |
| 22:54.12 | Shefki | About the only thing I use that isn't fully encrypted anymore is dns and IRC. |
| 22:54.20 | Shefki | IRC kinda defeats the point. |
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| 22:54.29 | orionshock | right |
| 22:54.30 | Shefki | DNS is coming. |
| 22:54.41 | orionshock | Shefki, it's already here last time i checked .... |
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| 22:54.49 | Gnarfoz | repo is dead, I think? |
| 22:54.50 | orionshock | tho not every isp / root server uses it |
| 22:54.55 | Shefki | orionshock: Not all TLDs have DNSSEC implemented. |
| 22:55.00 | Torhal | Gnarfoz: Repo is running on the old servers. |
| 22:55.05 | Gnarfoz | cool |
| 22:55.06 | Torhal | Welcome to Thursday. |
| 22:55.06 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 22:55.07 | Torhal | :D |
| 22:55.11 | orionshock | Gnarfoz, they did a server move lasterday, lots of things broken |
| 22:55.15 | Gnarfoz | I see, I see |
| 22:56.15 | orionshock | like i went searching for chrome extentions that provide encryption.. i found one that lest you do inline symmetric encryption for facebook.. thought that was interesting. |
| 22:56.39 | koaschten | haha |
| 22:56.48 | koaschten | posting to my wall, over an encrypted link |
| 22:56.54 | koaschten | kinda defeats the purpose |
| 22:57.18 | orionshock | well, you give your peeps in person your shared key |
| 22:57.25 | orionshock | & the extention auto decrypts it |
| 22:57.54 | Shefki | koaschten: Actually if the purpose is to communicate with a limited set of poeople via facebook that's pretty much the only way. |
| 22:58.04 | Shefki | Because you can't trust Facebook to leave your settings in tact. |
| 22:58.08 | koaschten | aah its encrypting the actual message :) |
| 22:58.09 | orionshock | granted it's PSK Encryption... so.... |
| 22:58.27 | koaschten | not that i care, i havent touched facebook in like ... 7 years |
| 22:58.39 | Shefki | I don't even have a facebook account. |
| 22:58.45 | koaschten | same here ;) |
| 22:58.49 | orionshock | there is however an extention for FireFox that lets you use PGP stuff inline... |
| 22:59.10 | Gnarfoz | koaschten: really, do you know germans who have one? there's *VZ anyway |
| 22:59.21 | koaschten | neither got that ;) |
| 22:59.32 | Shefki | *VZ? |
| 22:59.50 | Amadeo | I'm getting Download Failed when trying to grab MikScrollingBattleText from Curse Client |
| 22:59.57 | koaschten | "Verzeichnis" -> Index |
| 22:59.58 | Gnarfoz | StudiVZ (the original) and its clones MeinVZ and SchülerVZ, Shefki |
| 23:00.07 | Gnarfoz | and VZ stands for Verzeichnis, as koaschten just said |
| 23:00.24 | Amadeo | hm |
| 23:00.31 | Amadeo | worked on the third try...strange |
| 23:00.35 | Gnarfoz | it's basically the only social network (like Facebook) that survived in Germany |
| 23:00.52 | Gnarfoz | and Facebook itself was way late to the party |
| 23:02.29 | koaschten | which reminds me, the trailer is kinda teasing, but i cant convince myself to go and watch the movie.... |
| 23:03.08 | Mirrormn | The Social Network? |
| 23:03.11 | Gnarfoz | I can only imagine that movie to be horribly bad |
| 23:03.17 | Mirrormn | it's very good |
| 23:03.20 | Gnarfoz | (it's about Facebook, for god's sake) |
| 23:03.32 | Mirrormn | it doesn't glorify facebook |
| 23:03.47 | Mirrormn | in fact, the screenwriter doesn't use Facebook |
| 23:04.39 | koaschten | and the fact that suckerberg denied to cooperate with the writer .... |
| 23:04.47 | Shefki | It's really not about Facebook. It's about Zuckerburg. |
| 23:05.12 | Mirrormn | it's a procedural court drama told through flashbacks with a compelling emotional story and some very fine acting |
| 23:07.18 | Gnarfoz | bleh, why doesn't SmartGit push with --tags when there's tags |
| 23:07.22 | Gnarfoz | not so smart! |
| 23:07.56 | koaschten | OUT SMARTED ! |
| 23:08.11 | Trela | Git sucks in the first place! |
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