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| 00:36.16 | Repo | calendarkeyboardfixer: 03oscarucb 041.0.0 * r4 : Tagging as 1.0.0 |
| 00:37.31 | oscarucb | Can a wowace admin please push new project approvals? |
| 00:38.31 | Repo | New addon: CalendarKeyboardFixer - http://www.wowace.com/addons/calendarkeyboardfixer/ |
| 00:38.36 | oscarucb | ty |
| 00:44.31 | Repo | calendarkeyboardfixer: 03oscarucb * r5 CalendarKeyboardFixer.lua: disable debugging |
| 00:44.51 | Repo | calendarkeyboardfixer: 03oscarucb 041.0.1 * r6 : Tagging as 1.0.1 |
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| 01:24.48 | *** topic/#wowace is MoP Beta Keys: https://www.wowace.com/store/items/23-wow-mist-of-pandaria-author-beta/ | http://paste.wowace.com | http://lua.org |
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| 02:22.03 | Repo | demoniceyejumper: 03kunda * r2 / (3 files in 1 directory): (6 lines trimmed from commit message) |
| 02:22.04 | Repo | DemonicEyeJumper: |
| 02:22.04 | Repo | Eye of Kilrogg / Demonic Circle range checker. |
| 02:22.06 | Repo | initial commit |
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| 02:26.37 | pompy | :O |
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| 03:31.29 | Kivin | @framexml |
| 03:31.43 | Kivin | ^ what's the macro to show the console commands to extract the framexml |
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| 03:31.58 | pompy | ~framexml |
| 03:31.58 | purl | framexml is, like, Blizzard's UI for WoW. Export code/art from the client by using the wow.exe -console commands "ExportInterfaceFiles code" and "ExportInterfaceFiles art" (must be used on login screen); or view it online at http://github.com/tekkub/wow-ui-source , http://wowprogramming.com/utils/xmlbrowser or http://wow.go-hero.net/framexml |
| 03:32.12 | Kivin | cheers |
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| 03:40.03 | *** mode/#wowace [+o tardmrr] by ChanServ |
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| 04:12.20 | Repo | ouro-guild-alts: 03farmbuyer 04v4.3.4 * r39 : |
| 04:12.20 | Repo | Tagging as v4.3.4 (work with addons like RoleIcons, no other functionality change). |
| 04:19.22 | Kivin | Are addons working on mists? I'm getting "attempt to index a nil value 'OnShow'" when calling CreateFrame("Button") |
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| 04:57.31 | nevcairiel | addons are working just fine, the addon you're trying may just now, however :p |
| 04:57.44 | nevcairiel | s/now/not/ |
| 05:05.38 | Grokse | ~botsnack |
| 05:05.38 | purl | aw, gee, Grokse |
| 05:07.58 | Repo | calendarkeyboardfixer: 03oscarucb * r7 CalendarKeyboardFixer.lua: |
| 05:07.58 | Repo | ensure text box updates still happen correctly when switching events |
| 05:08.58 | Repo | calendarkeyboardfixer: 03oscarucb 041.0.2 * r8 : Tagging as 1.0.2 |
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| 05:12.27 | *** mode/#wowace [+v Antiarc] by ChanServ |
| 05:15.11 | quiescens | moo |
| 05:26.00 | Grokse | trims quiescens |
| 05:27.57 | arton | dies for quiescens. |
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| 05:43.39 | nevcairiel | Stanzilla: you wanted a BT4 version to link around right? http://files.1f0.de/wow/Bartender4-4.5-MoP-beta1.zip |
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| 07:18.43 | sb | znf: screw it, no 4 winds apparently :/ ppl didn't show up to real raid yesterday, so we have to do it today *sigh* we'll try again next week... |
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| 09:44.05 | sb | Gnarfoz, Gnarfoz, Gnarfoz! |
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| 10:52.55 | quiescens | o.o |
| 11:00.11 | sb | mhhh? quiescens???? |
| 11:00.24 | quiescens | ): |
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| 11:45.06 | *** mode/#wowace [+o nevcairiel_] by ChanServ |
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| 12:21.44 | Stanzilla | nevcairiel_: thank you |
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| 12:43.06 | quiescens | ! |
| 12:45.41 | mckenziemc | unlifes quiescens. |
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| 13:35.33 | znf | w00t, new RaF mmount |
| 13:35.34 | znf | gets |
| 13:38.53 | Yoshimo | mhmm, now i need to find a person that i could offer wow :P |
| 13:40.36 | znf | I have my means |
| 13:41.02 | quiescens | are you or are you not inventing a person just to get a mount |
| 13:41.24 | znf | You can RaF yourself |
| 13:41.32 | MysticalOS | you will buy from rwefsfsztw in trade for 10k gold in about 3 weeks? |
| 13:42.24 | quiescens | rwefsfsztw has pretty good feedback |
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| 14:08.36 | Repo | misspelled: 03nrpieper * r64 / (2 files in 1 directory): Beta version for Mists of Pandaria beta. |
| 14:15.27 | Stanzilla | znf: find me someone to RAF with |
| 14:16.22 | sb | get some friends already! |
| 14:16.44 | sb | go to a bar "hey, do you want to be my wow friend?" - done! |
| 14:17.52 | Stanzilla | sounds good |
| 14:22.58 | *** join/#wowace groktar (~gr@50.59.13.66) |
| 14:23.00 | znf | ffs, my gf's b-day is tomorow |
| 14:23.09 | sb | so!? |
| 14:23.10 | znf | and the online store doesn't have the product I want until 27th |
| 14:24.10 | *** join/#wowace Mihau (~Mihau@67.58.77.206) |
| 14:26.50 | quiescens | you're in trouble now~ |
| 14:28.56 | sb | but you COULD get a new gf till tomorrow - but be sure to check date of birth first! problem solved |
| 14:31.16 | Funkeh` | znf, make her a small card with a picture of it |
| 14:31.41 | Funkeh` | it wil help because she will never be able to guess what it is |
| 14:31.47 | Funkeh` | and be in total shock |
| 14:32.57 | znf | nah, she knows what she's getting |
| 14:33.09 | znf | so she's gonna wait until 27th :P |
| 14:34.47 | Stanzilla | what is it? |
| 14:35.16 | znf | some woman beauty tools :P |
| 14:35.24 | sintAcks | pokes Stanzilla |
| 14:35.26 | sintAcks | walks away |
| 14:35.34 | Stanzilla | why this time sintAcks |
| 14:35.40 | sintAcks | idk |
| 14:35.47 | sintAcks | also, should have raf'd when wow was $10 |
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| 14:37.38 | *** mode/#wowace [+v Elkano] by ChanServ |
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| 16:19.49 | Repo | weakauras: 03stanzilla 041.5_MoP_Beta3 * r236 : Tagging a Beta of the MoP branch |
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| 18:10.17 | Funkeh` | Fisker, http://steamcommunity.com/my/badges |
| 18:10.20 | Funkeh` | it's started! |
| 18:10.23 | Fisker | old |
| 18:10.25 | Fisker | so super old |
| 18:10.35 | Funkeh` | -.- |
| 18:11.16 | Stanzilla | I love how everyone is spamming Fisker for the comments badge :D |
| 18:13.22 | Fisker | :'( |
| 18:13.57 | Fisker | it's a thin line between spamming someone you hate yet having it be someone who crave attention so much that he won't mind even though you do it out of hate |
| 18:14.04 | Fisker | i mean hello |
| 18:14.17 | Stanzilla | I did it because I love you |
| 18:14.19 | Stanzilla | happy now? |
| 18:16.27 | groktar | a wild Fisker appears! |
| 18:19.59 | Ackis | I did it because I hate Fisker |
| 18:20.09 | Fisker | <3 |
| 18:20.28 | Megalon | I did not do it, but I hate Fisker nevertheless |
| 18:23.08 | *** join/#wowace RLD_osx (~RLD_osx@24-178-15-83.static.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 18:23.54 | Funkeh` | oh man |
| 18:24.00 | Funkeh` | there was a badge for the great steam treasure hunt |
| 18:24.07 | Funkeh` | lame, I didn't even know about it :( |
| 18:24.38 | Stanzilla | I don't get some badges :( |
| 18:24.43 | Stanzilla | like the summer camp group |
| 18:24.48 | Stanzilla | I'm in there but it doesnt show |
| 18:25.33 | Funkeh` | well the DB is probably getting hammered atm |
| 18:26.16 | Funkeh` | give it a day or so, or you can just rejoin it |
| 18:27.13 | Funkeh` | I really hate the fact I have to make another crappy tf2 video and upload it |
| 18:27.26 | Funkeh` | have they at least removed the dumb "must have quicktime installed" requirement |
| 18:29.56 | Stanzilla | Funkeh`: I just linked my youtube account and uploaded one from that |
| 18:30.31 | groktar | hisses and spits at quicktime |
| 18:30.39 | znf | I like QuickTime |
| 18:31.08 | groktar | it takes over your computer |
| 18:31.20 | groktar | messes with browser settings and such |
| 18:31.32 | Funkeh` | quicktime is like the borg |
| 18:31.39 | znf | it doesn't with mine |
| 18:31.41 | znf | *shrug* |
| 18:31.56 | Stanzilla | quicktime is another thing that is great on macs and sucks on windows |
| 18:31.59 | znf | "There seems to have been an error initializing or updating your transaction. Please wait a minute and try again or contact support for assistance. |
| 18:31.59 | znf | " |
| 18:32.08 | znf | go f* yourself, steam |
| 18:33.34 | Funkeh` | use paypal newb |
| 18:33.36 | znf | Someone remind me in 4 hours to vote for the community-thingie-that-I-just-want-the-badge-from |
| 18:33.50 | znf | Funkeh`, go ahead and try to change your payment method |
| 18:34.11 | Funkeh` | hmm I think I'll just leave it |
| 18:35.26 | groktar | changes Funkeh`'s payment method to nigerian prince |
| 18:35.49 | Funkeh` | You changed it to what it is already? |
| 18:36.24 | znf | Funkeh`, I added some funds to my steam wallet last week from paypal |
| 18:36.30 | znf | and now for some reasons it defaulted to steam wallet |
| 18:36.40 | znf | can't change to paypal without getting an error |
| 18:37.30 | znf | meh, it will cool off later |
| 18:53.20 | Megalon | With the Olympics about two weeks away, consider this a final you-can't-unsee-it reminder that the 2012 London Olympics logo looks like Lisa Simpson performing oral sex. |
| 18:53.25 | Megalon | haha |
| 19:12.59 | mckenziemc | surgically unsees Megalon's face. |
| 19:19.46 | groktar | dies |
| 19:20.46 | groktar | now i have to find the logo |
| 19:21.30 | groktar | hmm |
| 19:21.35 | groktar | i don't see it |
| 19:21.48 | groktar | ahhh |
| 19:21.50 | groktar | there she is |
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| 19:46.53 | pompy | http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/artblog/2007/jun/05/howlisasimpsontooktheolym 2007 :O |
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| 19:59.02 | Funkeh` | nope |
| 19:59.05 | Funkeh` | still requires quicktime |
| 19:59.08 | Funkeh` | well fuck that |
| 19:59.20 | Funkeh` | what exactly did you do Stanzilla ? |
| 20:02.28 | Funkeh` | nvm, I just removed last summers one and readded it |
| 20:03.39 | znf | such a lazy day today |
| 20:12.40 | Slayman | dat summersale is wrecking the servers of valve |
| 20:22.33 | Megalon | and when those are fixed it will wreck wallets |
| 20:23.30 | Elkano | well, same shit every sale... |
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| 21:21.51 | Gnarfoz | -Gnarfoz- <sb!~sb@2a00:1158:2:1e00::31@#wowace> Gnarfoz, Gnarfoz, Gnarfoz! |
| 21:21.51 | Gnarfoz | wtf |
| 21:21.54 | Gnarfoz | from when was that |
| 21:22.20 | nevcairiel | 11:44 |
| 21:25.48 | Gnarfoz | guess my log replay or PM/highlight handling while detached could be improved |
| 21:31.47 | sb | Gnarfoz: cinema thingy :p |
| 21:32.13 | Gnarfoz | yeah, I figured |
| 21:33.06 | sb | mhh, what happened to my hostname |
| 21:33.21 | Gnarfoz | you don't have one |
| 21:33.28 | sb | yes, thank you :p |
| 21:33.41 | sb | question is: why?!?!?! |
| 21:33.43 | Gnarfoz | connecting from wrong IP? |
| 21:34.10 | Gnarfoz | hm |
| 21:34.13 | sb | nope |
| 21:34.13 | Gnarfoz | 1.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.e.1.2.0.0.0.8.5.1.1.0.0.a.2.ip6.arpa domain name pointer sb.db6.org. |
| 21:34.16 | Gnarfoz | looks fine |
| 21:34.16 | sb | yep... |
| 21:34.30 | Gnarfoz | is that done on the irc server end? |
| 21:34.41 | Gnarfoz | i.e. showing your IP or showing your host? |
| 21:34.46 | Gnarfoz | or is that client side |
| 21:34.50 | nevcairiel | the irc server does the lookup |
| 21:34.53 | Gnarfoz | kk |
| 21:35.00 | Gnarfoz | maybe this one can't! or it couldn't, when you connected |
| 21:35.07 | sb | yup, so temporary lookup failure on connect or something liek that |
| 21:35.08 | sb | yup |
| 21:35.23 | Gnarfoz | wtf is db6 |
| 21:35.24 | Gnarfoz | btw |
| 21:35.37 | arkanes | it's 4 better than db2 |
| 21:35.57 | Gnarfoz | and how does it compare to Oracle? |
| 21:36.19 | arkanes | nothing compares to oracle |
| 21:36.25 | Gnarfoz | yes, nothing is as expensive |
| 21:36.28 | arkanes | that's right |
| 21:36.37 | nevcairiel | i've never seen a db2 in action, i can't judge :p |
| 21:36.42 | Gnarfoz | neither have I |
| 21:36.50 | Gnarfoz | but it's probably the closest competitor, feature and complexity wise |
| 21:37.02 | arkanes | nah |
| 21:37.12 | arkanes | complexity of the licensing schemes, maybe |
| 21:37.14 | nevcairiel | we only use oracle, and some weird "special" systems with mssql |
| 21:37.16 | Gnarfoz | hehe |
| 21:37.19 | arkanes | but I think oracle is really in a class all of its own there too |
| 21:37.33 | Gnarfoz | Oracle's licensing scheme is pretty simple: pay all you have |
| 21:37.43 | arkanes | larry ellison looked at cable packages and was like "man, this would be a great way to sell software" |
| 21:38.13 | Gnarfoz | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.16 | Gnarfoz | wtf |
| 21:38.40 | nevcairiel | guess you have to restart your screens when you upgrade .p |
| 21:38.41 | arkanes | I use a lot of oracle and a fair amount of sql server |
| 21:38.42 | Gnarfoz | (screen update is warning me that there's an active screen session... the one my irssi runs in, to be precise) |
| 21:38.45 | arkanes | really getting fed up with oracle, though |
| 21:39.07 | nevcairiel | i only use oracle, i dont admin it |
| 21:39.10 | nevcairiel | i think its fine :d |
| 21:39.14 | arkanes | same |
| 21:39.18 | arkanes | but I mean from a user perspective |
| 21:39.32 | Gnarfoz | I just admin it, and holy fuck is that needlessly complex |
| 21:39.33 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 21:39.49 | arkanes | we've got a massive, hugely expensive oracle cluster and its consistenly outpeformed by our commodity-scaled sql server machines |
| 21:39.56 | Gnarfoz | my "use" of it boils down to helping people find out why their shit is slow, not working at all, or being blocked by <something> |
| 21:40.13 | nevcairiel | we also have one of those funny clusters, dont think we use it right though |
| 21:40.13 | Gnarfoz | brb, restarting screen :P |
| 21:40.17 | arkanes | and its query optimizer is just nutty |
| 21:40.19 | nevcairiel | our DBAs can be a bit stupid sometimes |
| 21:40.25 | Gnarfoz | the optimizer is the WORST |
| 21:40.26 | Gnarfoz | omg :C |
| 21:40.42 | Gnarfoz | don't say funny stuff while I'm away :( plz! xD |
| 21:41.06 | nevcairiel | i dont have joins or quits shown, how will we know when you're back! |
| 21:41.54 | arkanes | I don't know what it is really but oracle seems to be really space inefficient relative to sql server and I'm sure that contributes |
| 21:41.56 | *** join/#wowace Gnarfoz (smallbrain@irc.geektour.de) |
| 21:42.11 | arkanes | it churns way, way more bytes |
| 21:42.46 | *** join/#wowace Gnarfoz (smallbrain@WoWUIDev/WowAce/Gnarfoz) |
| 21:42.51 | Gnarfoz | already back =D |
| 21:43.01 | Gnarfoz | I have no clue how Oracle can have reached their position with this software, to be honest |
| 21:43.19 | arkanes | I've done some baseline comparisons and sqlserver looks to take maybe 1/3rd the space as oracle does for our data set |
| 21:43.45 | nevcairiel | probably a requirement to run SAP, so any company that runs SAP also has to run Oracle servers, so they just use them for their other DB needs as well? :P |
| 21:44.00 | arkanes | history was part of it I'm sure |
| 21:44.11 | arkanes | 10 years ago, if you wanted a tb size database you used oracle or db2 |
| 21:44.28 | nevcairiel | (on the other hand, i dont understand why SAP is so great either, i think the software is crazy) |
| 21:44.31 | arkanes | a couple totally crazy people did it on pgsql |
| 21:44.49 | sb | Gnarfoz: some random hostname! *shrug* i like it ,) |
| 21:44.57 | Gnarfoz | they take ages to update it, it has SO many little bugs, oddities and special cases, it's expensive as FUCK, and even though it's innards are all over the place (just check the process list o_O) you don't know WHAT it is doing most of the time |
| 21:45.09 | Gnarfoz | huh? shouldn't I have my wowuidev cloak? |
| 21:45.18 | arkanes | Gnarfoz: it took a second to apply |
| 21:45.18 | Primer | oracle forks a process for every connection |
| 21:45.21 | Primer | just like postgres |
| 21:45.21 | Gnarfoz | ah right, the original hostname shows up for a minute when connecting, right |
| 21:45.21 | arkanes | so we saw you naked |
| 21:45.25 | arkanes | Primer: yep |
| 21:45.38 | Primer | and there's nothing wrong with that approach |
| 21:45.41 | arkanes | Primer: makes our DBAs whine, too |
| 21:45.44 | Gnarfoz | that depends on shared/dedicated server |
| 21:45.51 | Gnarfoz | what was it? |
| 21:45.54 | arkanes | it means you need to be conservative with your idle connections and actively reap them |
| 21:45.56 | Gnarfoz | it should've been irc.geektour.de |
| 21:46.12 | Primer | or use pooling |
| 21:46.16 | arkanes | which is not an issue with databases that have less per-connection overhead |
| 21:46.38 | arkanes | Primer: it means your pooling needs to be conserative with idle connections and actively reap them |
| 21:46.48 | Primer | oracle probably has the most expensive connection overhead of any db |
| 21:46.52 | arkanes | just a matter of scaling |
| 21:47.19 | arkanes | our apps that use sql server will just toss up apps out of nowhere |
| 21:47.22 | arkanes | er, connections |
| 21:47.24 | Primer | I used to admin oracle at my old work |
| 21:47.24 | Gnarfoz | are you using it for OLTP? |
| 21:47.31 | arkanes | report server? 200 connections |
| 21:47.44 | arkanes | while we have to do more work to really isolate what we need for oracle |
| 21:47.52 | Gnarfoz | because I've never bothered to check for connection overhead since all our connections are long-lived enough for it to be irrelevant |
| 21:47.59 | arkanes | it's not a huge problem, just some overhead we don't need to bother with |
| 21:48.03 | arkanes | Gnarfoz: credit card processing |
| 21:48.09 | Gnarfoz | uhg |
| 21:48.10 | Primer | I hated fudging queries with hints because it was incapable of seeing that there was an index that could be used, regardless of the amount of stats gathering it did |
| 21:48.16 | arkanes | Primer: yeah |
| 21:48.20 | Gnarfoz | yeah, that's probably a high amount of "little" sessions |
| 21:48.25 | arkanes | Gnarfoz: nah |
| 21:48.26 | Gnarfoz | Primer: YAY |
| 21:48.32 | Gnarfoz | Primer: daily bread :C |
| 21:48.33 | arkanes | Gnarfoz: we use a small amount of very long lived ones, performance |
| 21:48.47 | Gnarfoz | arkanes: hm? I meant it requires it - conecptually |
| 21:49.05 | Gnarfoz | i.e. one CC to process takes little time, but it happens often? |
| 21:49.09 | arkanes | Primer: and even if it comes up with a good plan it'll throw it all away and start doing scans because a mongoose in australia sneezed or something |
| 21:49.10 | nevcairiel | using a small pool of persistent connections is usually the better idea |
| 21:49.12 | Primer | They weaned off oracle in favor of postgres recently...but that happened after I left |
| 21:49.14 | arkanes | Gnarfoz: not really |
| 21:49.23 | Primer | arkanes: hehe indeed |
| 21:49.24 | Gnarfoz | then I'm not sure what we're talking about :D |
| 21:49.29 | arkanes | Gnarfoz: a single CC transaction takes several seconds, and they don't really happen that often compared to, say, page views |
| 21:50.23 | arkanes | we don't go directly to oracle in course of the transaction anyway, though, all the information is dumped to a queue and there's a dedicated process that tosses it into oracle |
| 21:50.57 | Gnarfoz | :o isn't that, like, against PCI standards? |
| 21:51.00 | arkanes | no |
| 21:51.06 | arkanes | the ccn never hits disk |
| 21:51.28 | Gnarfoz | I see - I just know those exist, I'm not involved with implementing them :D |
| 21:51.47 | Gnarfoz | (I think our ebook platform does payment, so they probably had to figure that out) |
| 21:51.55 | Primer | you can always lie |
| 21:52.03 | arkanes | except it does, and it hits network too, in the form of the SAN that backs the disk array that hosts the VM images that have the back store for ou VMs on them |
| 21:52.06 | arkanes | so sigh |
| 21:52.10 | arkanes | Primer: quite easily, yes |
| 21:52.27 | arkanes | Primer: we don't, though, aside from dumb things our platform does under us we never let the CC number touch persistant storage |
| 21:52.37 | *** join/#wowace Arrowmaster` (arrow@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 21:52.46 | arkanes | which puts us a few steps up on everyone else in our company who just send them around in emails |
| 21:53.10 | Primer | arkanes: we had to store CCs at my old work. We jumped through a lot of hoops to satisfy the PCI people |
| 21:53.13 | arkanes | we do about 7.25 million transactions per month |
| 21:53.14 | Gnarfoz | Primer: our primary optimizer problem is when it uses nested loop joins for stuff that's not suited to it... |
| 21:53.44 | Primer | Gnarfoz: play with hints yet? |
| 21:53.49 | Gnarfoz | so there's some nice /*+ NO_USE_NL */ all over the place |
| 21:53.50 | Gnarfoz | yeah |
| 21:54.03 | Gnarfoz | it's shitty, but at least it works >_> |
| 21:54.03 | arkanes | Primer: our PCI auditors care a whole lot about fairly implausible threats that you can easily describe and mechanically test for, and not a whole lot about actual issues that can't trivially be confirmed by a network appliance |
| 21:54.28 | arkanes | Gnarfoz: we start all our sessions with some session setting that's basically "yes, please use indexes" |
| 21:54.38 | Primer | arkanes: PCI compliance is a huge waste of time |
| 21:54.38 | Gnarfoz | haha |
| 21:54.59 | Gnarfoz | I'm not sure what that would be, but it sounds like typical Oracle thing to do |
| 21:55.12 | Gnarfoz | sb: 23:47:00 [freenode] -!- hostname : irc.geektour.de 2a01:4f8:100:12a9::4 |
| 21:55.12 | Gnarfoz | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:55.20 | Gnarfoz | so says irssi when I whois myself <3 |
| 21:55.28 | Gnarfoz | not that I gain anything by using ipv6 for this xD |
| 21:56.17 | Primer | We do CC processing at my current job but never store the CC numbers. Our PCI scanner complains that we have a "vulnerable wordpress blog" (it's fucking ALWAYS vulnerable). Yet no matter how much we tell them it doesn't share the db with the application, it doesn't matter |
| 21:56.29 | Gnarfoz | man |
| 21:56.34 | Gnarfoz | I want a job like that |
| 21:56.47 | Gnarfoz | where you can just be stupid as hell and still earn your money |
| 21:56.49 | arkanes | I wouldn't put wordpress on a shared network segment with my CC processing :( |
| 21:58.33 | Primer | CC processing is a drop in the bucket for what we do |
| 21:58.59 | arkanes | it's a pretty big deal for us |
| 21:59.05 | arkanes | and man banks are assholes |
| 21:59.52 | arkanes | you wouldn't believe how much information they want about everything you buy as part of the transaction |
| 21:59.55 | Primer | my old work is a hosting company. We'd process hundreds of transactions per day |
| 21:59.57 | Primer | recurring and new |
| 22:00.21 | Primer | It's a cut-throat business |
| 22:00.28 | Primer | glad I don't work there any more |
| 22:01.12 | Gnarfoz | I'm not sure if I want to keep doing what I do, and if not, what else I could do :D |
| 22:01.37 | arkanes | I'm not totally displeased |
| 22:01.44 | Primer | I'm still knee deep in db work |
| 22:01.52 | Primer | but at least this new gig is postgres :) |
| 22:01.59 | arkanes | I have near-total control over the systems I build, I get to continually improve them and make them better, and I'm paid well if not amazing |
| 22:02.12 | Gnarfoz | that doesn't sound too bad ;D |
| 22:02.15 | Primer | I just hate dealing with inherited code and poorly designed db schemas |
| 22:02.29 | Gnarfoz | Primer: thank god I'm not one of the db developers |
| 22:02.30 | arkanes | I spent most of the start of this year improving our monitoring and reporting mechanisms, still not quite where I want to be but we've got some really good stuff now |
| 22:02.42 | Gnarfoz | like, except one guy, they all have inherited what they're working on |
| 22:02.45 | Primer | such as lack of normalization, foreign key constraints, and my favorite: lack of on delete cascade when there are FKs |
| 22:03.11 | arkanes | it seems bizarre to me that you have to declare on delete cascade when you create the FK |
| 22:03.24 | arkanes | it seems logical to me that you should be able to do the cascade as part of the delete |
| 22:03.25 | Primer | I agree |
| 22:03.32 | Gnarfoz | that'd be logical |
| 22:03.36 | Gnarfoz | hence, that's not how it is |
| 22:04.36 | Gnarfoz | I think I'd probably want to get rid of the DB parts of what I do primarily... too much crossover into db dev, of which I really don't have much of a clue |
| 22:05.28 | Gnarfoz | I'm just really satisified we found a way to solve our Oracle problem for now |
| 22:06.06 | Gnarfoz | no more "everything is slow, but licenses are 20x the hardware cost" |
| 22:07.02 | arkanes | one of the hidden costs of Oracle is the full time team of highly paid consultants you need to get it to do anything |
| 22:07.26 | Primer | I wouldn't even call that hidden |
| 22:07.28 | Gnarfoz | we really don't have any |
| 22:07.43 | arkanes | our database team is a different department, and as part of our merger they went from having 2 oracle people to like... 9 |
| 22:08.05 | Gnarfoz | one of our app devs is a highly experienced pl/sql / or general oracle dev, but that's about it |
| 22:08.17 | arkanes | still can't get a good answer to "why does this trivially indexed and partitioned query take 8 seconds to run", but eh |
| 22:08.36 | Gnarfoz | arkanes: neither can we, I don't think a person exists on the planet that could |
| 22:10.25 | Gnarfoz | now we're just splitting off everything into data marts that run the "worlds fastest database", and have reduced query & report times by insane amounts ^^ |
| 22:10.48 | arkanes | we partition everything by month |
| 22:10.57 | arkanes | but I wonder how much nicer it could be if we did it by hour |
| 22:11.12 | Gnarfoz | it's not even funny when it's possible to reduce the runtime of a report from 4 hours to 2 minutes or from 5 minutes to 2 seconds |
| 22:11.19 | arkanes | not sure what the cost is for crossing a partition boundary on a query |
| 22:11.45 | arkanes | or what the per-partition overhead is, we already store way less history than I want to because we don't have enough space |
| 22:11.57 | Gnarfoz | all by just using a different database software, no change to the query at all :C |
| 22:12.34 | Gnarfoz | well, ours is a data warehouse, so we store everything ^^ |
| 22:13.06 | arkanes | we store 3 months of transaction history, and that's all :( |
| 22:13.14 | arkanes | and that takes about a tb |
| 22:13.22 | Gnarfoz | hm :o |
| 22:13.40 | arkanes | this is a terrabyte of fancy SSD SAN |
| 22:13.43 | arkanes | so not cheap |
| 22:13.44 | Gnarfoz | -r! |
| 22:14.14 | Gnarfoz | we're not even I/O bound anymore, it's just CPU |
| 22:14.20 | arkanes | and yet, I still have to set up external processes that run hourly reports, because doing any sort of analysis on anything more than an hours worth of data takes too long |
| 22:15.21 | Gnarfoz | well, ours is mostly real time reporting (haha real time, when some reports take hours), really weird concept tbh |
| 22:15.33 | arkanes | the hourly report dumps itself as html that I just serve up statically, and if I need to check something across a range of hours it's faster to grep the static html files than to run the query over the full date range :( |
| 22:16.32 | Gnarfoz | it's a DWH, but we both import new data constantly around the clock, and we have also constantly have both business intelligence people do reports and people using our websites to get their data |
| 22:16.47 | Gnarfoz | arkanes: haha, ouch |
| 22:17.09 | arkanes | Gnarfoz: if you've got the space, pre-rendering everything is the way to go |
| 22:17.18 | Gnarfoz | sounds like you need pre-aggregation, but that's probably going to slow down your imports to all hell |
| 22:17.29 | arkanes | it's space |
| 22:17.41 | arkanes | I'd store everthing in a denormalized, aggregate form in the DB |
| 22:17.44 | Gnarfoz | well, pre-*rendering* would be nice, if we knew what people were going to query |
| 22:17.54 | arkanes | but that'll start taking tons more space |
| 22:18.31 | *** join/#wowace oscarucb (~oscarucb@cpe-204-210-241-64.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 22:19.09 | Gnarfoz | I think we even get some of the data in pre-aggregated form (D/W/M), but some we sum up ourselves (Q/Y)? I'm not too involved with all that |
| 22:20.14 | arkanes | basically as your data grows, no matter how well indexed and all it is, eventually you'll reach a point where doing live analysis on it is cost prohibitive |
| 22:20.28 | arkanes | in my case that's way earlier than I'd like :( |
| 22:20.57 | Gnarfoz | sounds like you're way past that point, really |
| 22:21.00 | arkanes | but at that point, your best option is to decide on the kind of stuff you want to see and want to aggregate, and thn duplicate that aggregate information at the time of insert |
| 22:21.26 | arkanes | asynchronously, of course, because your insert rate is going to be higher than you can deal with if you have that much data |
| 22:21.42 | arkanes | oracle of course has stuff that does this if you give them a few million dollars |
| 22:22.00 | Gnarfoz | I think I'll pass |
| 22:22.01 | Gnarfoz | ;D |
| 22:22.02 | arkanes | or you can be like all the new kids and say hey, nosql |
| 22:22.06 | arkanes | or just write a thing |
| 22:22.16 | Gnarfoz | nosql would probably not lend itself to what we do :D |
| 22:22.24 | arkanes | anyway, it's usually not too burdensome to lose ad-hoc real time querying |
| 22:22.29 | Gnarfoz | but in memory column based rdbms does! ^^ |
| 22:22.39 | Gnarfoz | maybe for what you do, heh |
| 22:22.54 | arkanes | I'm not really a nosql guy |
| 22:23.17 | znf | dear god, you're still talking about databases |
| 22:23.30 | arkanes | but it's the same kind of challenges that led people to think of the nosql stuff |
| 22:23.34 | Gnarfoz | I think the closest thing to nosql we have anywhere would be the 2 tiny redis instances the ebook guys use for some stuff |
| 22:24.23 | pompy | Gnarfoz: if nosql doesnt that id assume dyanamodb doesnt either. |
| 22:24.25 | arkanes | I have a new boss who's a real MS guy and he wants use to move to sqlserver |
| 22:24.45 | Gnarfoz | pompy: I have no idea what dynamodb is |
| 22:24.59 | Gnarfoz | arkanes: at least you'd probably not be bleeding money to Oracle, heh |
| 22:25.07 | arkanes | well, we'll do that regardless |
| 22:25.27 | arkanes | I wouldn't mind moving, though |
| 22:25.35 | arkanes | I'd like postgres but hey can't have everything |
| 22:25.37 | Gnarfoz | haha wut - the Guild Wars 2 client download has a mime type that makes my browser say it's a "Video Clip" |
| 22:25.47 | arkanes | the challenge is how to do it without incurring downtime |
| 22:25.58 | Gnarfoz | good luck with that <_< |
| 22:26.09 | arkanes | I'm pretty sure I can make it happen |
| 22:26.13 | arkanes | going to be work, though |
| 22:28.32 | arkanes | jesus terrarria is tiny |
| 22:29.08 | Repo | New experimental addon: X' Monk Harmony Bar - http://www.wowace.com/addons/x-monk-harmony-bar/ |
| 22:29.23 | Repo | New addon: CD Alarm - http://www.wowace.com/addons/cdalarm/ |
| 22:31.45 | *** join/#wowace arlen (~arlen@c-24-125-124-95.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
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| 22:42.37 | *** mode/#wowace [+o tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 22:47.26 | pompy | Gnarfoz: ahh its amazons nosql db service |
| 22:48.06 | Gnarfoz | I see - how did you come to mention it? ;o |
| 22:48.09 | Gnarfoz | random? D |
| 22:48.09 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 22:48.32 | pompy | Gnarfoz: (7/12/2012 6:22:09 PM) Gnarfoz: nosql would probably not lend itself to what we do :D |
| 22:49.31 | Gnarfoz | yeah, so? :D what lead you to the cloud? =o |
| 22:49.35 | Gnarfoz | *led |
| 22:49.47 | Gnarfoz | (thought I fixed that typo already o_O wtf) |
| 22:49.53 | Gnarfoz | Playing Futurama.S07E05.Zapp.Dingbat.720p.WEB-DL.DD5.1.H.264-CtrlHD.mkv in Media Player Classic |
| 22:50.02 | Gnarfoz | didn't think that worked |
| 22:50.04 | Gnarfoz | xD |
| 22:51.26 | pompy | lol |
| 22:53.03 | arkanes | mnany years ago I wrote a plugin for getting the now playing info from winamp, and doing next/prev track and so on |
| 22:53.13 | arkanes | and it made me a God Among Men to my friends |
| 22:53.26 | arkanes | I think that might be why I'm a programmer :\ |
| 22:54.56 | pompy | winamp still being developed or did it get superseded by anything? |
| 22:56.05 | Gnarfoz | probably by some AOL goons |
| 22:56.55 | arkanes | pompy: it's still around |
| 22:57.12 | arkanes | I even still use it at work, to play my voice mail files :\ |
| 23:00.39 | znf | No innovations in it, though |
| 23:00.45 | znf | Ever since they bought out NUllsoft :-/ |
| 23:00.49 | znf | Those guys were so cool |
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| 23:23.06 | Stanzilla | what is this madness |
| 23:23.25 | quiescens | go to sleep |
| 23:23.31 | Stanzilla | no |
| 23:23.43 | Stanzilla | sb query'd me with something he wanted to tell Gnarfoz |
| 23:23.45 | Stanzilla | that's new |
| 23:24.34 | quiescens | sleep is good~ |
| 23:30.40 | sb | oh Stanzilla :P |
| 23:30.43 | sb | yep |
| 23:30.46 | sb | strange window 10! |
| 23:31.00 | sb | ty *posting again* |
| 23:31.08 | quiescens | o.o |
| 23:31.18 | sb | sleep kills people |
| 23:31.24 | quiescens | ): |
| 23:38.10 | groktar | accidently kills quiescens |
| 23:38.25 | groktar | whoopsie |
| 23:38.32 | quiescens | dies. |
| 23:39.06 | groktar | embalms quiescens with worcestershire sauce |
| 23:40.10 | groktar | yw |
| 23:44.28 | Megalon | mhm |
| 23:44.30 | Megalon | sauce |
| 23:44.35 | Megalon | and bacon strips |
| 23:44.49 | Megalon | y u make me hungry at 0143, groktar |
| 23:45.08 | Megalon | now i have to go to sleep with hungry feels |
| 23:46.00 | sb | why not eating quiescens? |
| 23:46.56 | *** join/#wowace quiesense (~quiescens@203-217-28-61.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:47.50 | *** join/#wowace pompy (~Mike@68.36.135.0) |